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UK faces biggest rail strike in 30 years.
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"It's about workers using the last resort of withdrawing their labour. This is the start as other workers including teachers, nhs workers and others seeing the injustice of those that have alot and those with a little. Disruptive but, what else can they do, the government have not engaged with the union." Yes, lets hope that there wont be too much disruption for the commuters. I hear that there will be some trains that will operate, trains are limited to one an hour between 7.30am and 6.30pm on major intercity and urban routes  | |||
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"If inflation is to hit 11% later this year and they want an increase to reflect it, then over the next few years when inflation is said to come back into line they'll be well very well paid workers. " I think that only works if we expect deflation Given the issues, maybe we do. But I've not seen much discussion that this spike will have a negative cousin to offset it | |||
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"Further to the posts about whether people are within their due rights to strike, when largely we all agreed that we are, there is little more to say. The government refusal to step in, assisting with negotiations, suggests that they are happy for the public to be cannon fodder, whilst attendion is shifted away from them and their catastrophic situations of recent months. Smoke and mirrors. Inflation is tipped for 11% shortly, so it's clear that wages should be increased across the board, to reflect the huge cost of living crisis for all. That some people are using their final tool, to strike, is reflective of a situation where the majority of people are not having their needs acknowledged or addressed in this country. " so are you saying that rail fares should rise by 11% ? Of course people have the right to strike but what about the people who travel by train shouldn't they all gat 11% too to make up for their extra costs? | |||
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"Further to the posts about whether people are within their due rights to strike, when largely we all agreed that we are, there is little more to say. The government refusal to step in, assisting with negotiations, suggests that they are happy for the public to be cannon fodder, whilst attendion is shifted away from them and their catastrophic situations of recent months. Smoke and mirrors. Inflation is tipped for 11% shortly, so it's clear that wages should be increased across the board, to reflect the huge cost of living crisis for all. That some people are using their final tool, to strike, is reflective of a situation where the majority of people are not having their needs acknowledged or addressed in this country. " What would the governments role be in negotiations? Reading through the reasons for this strike, it seems to me the central point is the low or average pay for cleaners, caters and the prospect of job cuts. I'm a little confused reading this, I thought there were many jobs in areas such as cleaning and catering in hospitality that ore being not filled, would it not be easier to try and find a job with a better wage than strike and lose more money? Would the exodus of those workers force the employers to up the wage to attract workers back? | |||
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"I would think they will settle for 6-7% with a kicker if inflation stays at 11% for more than two years . The cost of wages isn’t the total cost of running trains so the fares don’t need to go up 11% . Maybe stop the dividends? The low paid in the industry have been kept low paid and all the while despite repeated subsidy from government large dividends are continually paid . Since the financial crisis which impacted this country more than most, this government have been devoid of ideas to re-invigorate our economy or even have a long term plan. Their saving grace has been cheap imports and low interest rates . Those two savers are now disappearing so the true state of the mess we are in is being exposed . I’m sure the NHS will be striking soon but if they give a blanket 6% there it will lift all the well paid Directors as well as the nurses . Maybe it’s time to help the less well paid a bit more. No dividends if wages don’t stay in line with inflation otherwise it’s wage cuts which are funding others not working in the industry. MPs pay will have kept up with inflation why is it most of the U.K. workers haven’t? Property and shares have done very well but workers have paid for the austerity . It has to stop and be shared out fairer. " The cost of living is affecting all Europe Belgium have a national strike today a couple of weeks ago the French hospitals were its not just a UK problem. | |||
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"I would think they will settle for 6-7% with a kicker if inflation stays at 11% for more than two years . The cost of wages isn’t the total cost of running trains so the fares don’t need to go up 11% . Maybe stop the dividends? The low paid in the industry have been kept low paid and all the while despite repeated subsidy from government large dividends are continually paid . Since the financial crisis which impacted this country more than most, this government have been devoid of ideas to re-invigorate our economy or even have a long term plan. Their saving grace has been cheap imports and low interest rates . Those two savers are now disappearing so the true state of the mess we are in is being exposed . I’m sure the NHS will be striking soon but if they give a blanket 6% there it will lift all the well paid Directors as well as the nurses . Maybe it’s time to help the less well paid a bit more. No dividends if wages don’t stay in line with inflation otherwise it’s wage cuts which are funding others not working in the industry. MPs pay will have kept up with inflation why is it most of the U.K. workers haven’t? Property and shares have done very well but workers have paid for the austerity . It has to stop and be shared out fairer. The cost of living is affecting all Europe Belgium have a national strike today a couple of weeks ago the French hospitals were its not just a UK problem. " I didn’t say it was unique to the U.K. it’s just we are suffering more as we’re starting from a weaker place. Productivity in France is 16% higher per person than here. We are not in a good place and our economy looks to be going on the wrong direction. The bankers greed fucked us over and they never paid their share back . | |||
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"sorry my mistake the french hospital strike was about a shortage of staff and not over the cost of living before i get pulled up over it. "The French are all one union including the police so I’m sure they will be a lot better off individually. No idea if the country can afford it though. | |||
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"I would think they will settle for 6-7% with a kicker if inflation stays at 11% for more than two years . The cost of wages isn’t the total cost of running trains so the fares don’t need to go up 11% . Maybe stop the dividends? The low paid in the industry have been kept low paid and all the while despite repeated subsidy from government large dividends are continually paid . Since the financial crisis which impacted this country more than most, this government have been devoid of ideas to re-invigorate our economy or even have a long term plan. Their saving grace has been cheap imports and low interest rates . Those two savers are now disappearing so the true state of the mess we are in is being exposed . I’m sure the NHS will be striking soon but if they give a blanket 6% there it will lift all the well paid Directors as well as the nurses . Maybe it’s time to help the less well paid a bit more. No dividends if wages don’t stay in line with inflation otherwise it’s wage cuts which are funding others not working in the industry. MPs pay will have kept up with inflation why is it most of the U.K. workers haven’t? Property and shares have done very well but workers have paid for the austerity . It has to stop and be shared out fairer. " I'm certainly not an economist but I do know that when inflation rises as it is doing now, interest rates begin to rise to encourage people to save more, borrow less and spend less. It cuts demand for products and services, lowering the price and bringing inflation back down. Paying people more wouldn't promote that to happen, or not as quickly as it could, and it could even see inflation rise further as spending continues. The world is suffering, even Japan, who hasn't seen a rise in inflation for 20 - 30 years is now facing higher fuel and food prices. I have no idea what the answer is other than the obvious, end the war in Ukraine, hope the next Russian leader is less trigger happy etc. Other than giving out pay rises that as above probably wont help, what would you recommend to be reasonable solutions to these world problems? | |||
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"Expect more strikes from other sectors. If the government refuse to honour raising pay with inflation. What do they expect?? They clearly have no ideas to deal with this crisis. Interest rates will go up considerably soon to counter inflation. Most workers will be facing ruin, if this persists. What happens to the economy when workers are facing large pay cuts in a time of high inflation. Lump into that credit card debt and mortgage payments going up. This government will default to austerity, whilst we are in a recession. Its like watching a slow motion car crash. Sure they will continue wasting money by trying to continually patch things up. Rather than addressing what should have been addressed when the banks crashed the economy in 2008. People will only tolerate a certain level of inequality until they lose their rag on mass. " How do you suggest this crisis is dealt with? | |||
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"Expect more strikes from other sectors. If the government refuse to honour raising pay with inflation. What do they expect?? They clearly have no ideas to deal with this crisis. Interest rates will go up considerably soon to counter inflation. Most workers will be facing ruin, if this persists. What happens to the economy when workers are facing large pay cuts in a time of high inflation. Lump into that credit card debt and mortgage payments going up. This government will default to austerity, whilst we are in a recession. Its like watching a slow motion car crash. Sure they will continue wasting money by trying to continually patch things up. Rather than addressing what should have been addressed when the banks crashed the economy in 2008. People will only tolerate a certain level of inequality until they lose their rag on mass. How do you suggest this crisis is dealt with?" At least try to pay with inflation as at least that will eat people's debt and same will apply to the national debt. Whilst doing this fix peoples mortgages for at least 5 years, so rates can be raised without causing mass homelessness. This would also leverage the inflation to eat the mortgage debt. Take big steps to address supply chains, start on shoring as much as possible. Restructure the banks, so their main purpose is business lending and venture capital. Not lending for buy to let. Build affordable housing owned by the government, rather than spending tens of billions on housing benefit. That would be a start, but I'm sure there would be economists with far greater understanding and ideas. Basically we need to move away from being short termist/no planning and riddled with productivity sapping renteirism. To an economy that is about increasing productivity and leveraging technology. This requires vision and strategy from government. Also clean up all the lobbying and corruption. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Expect more strikes from other sectors. If the government refuse to honour raising pay with inflation. What do they expect?? They clearly have no ideas to deal with this crisis. Interest rates will go up considerably soon to counter inflation. Most workers will be facing ruin, if this persists. What happens to the economy when workers are facing large pay cuts in a time of high inflation. Lump into that credit card debt and mortgage payments going up. This government will default to austerity, whilst we are in a recession. Its like watching a slow motion car crash. Sure they will continue wasting money by trying to continually patch things up. Rather than addressing what should have been addressed when the banks crashed the economy in 2008. People will only tolerate a certain level of inequality until they lose their rag on mass. How do you suggest this crisis is dealt with? At least try to pay with inflation as at least that will eat people's debt and same will apply to the national debt. Whilst doing this fix peoples mortgages for at least 5 years, so rates can be raised without causing mass homelessness. This would also leverage the inflation to eat the mortgage debt. Take big steps to address supply chains, start on shoring as much as possible. Restructure the banks, so their main purpose is business lending and venture capital. Not lending for buy to let. Build affordable housing owned by the government, rather than spending tens of billions on housing benefit. That would be a start, but I'm sure there would be economists with far greater understanding and ideas. Basically we need to move away from being short termist/no planning and riddled with productivity sapping renteirism. To an economy that is about increasing productivity and leveraging technology. This requires vision and strategy from government. Also clean up all the lobbying and corruption. " Raising wages in line with inflation will push inflation higher and you end up in a loop with no end. A hike in interest rates, deters spending and should bring inflation down, it isn't pretty and it will hurt many. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Expect more strikes from other sectors. If the government refuse to honour raising pay with inflation. What do they expect?? They clearly have no ideas to deal with this crisis. Interest rates will go up considerably soon to counter inflation. Most workers will be facing ruin, if this persists. What happens to the economy when workers are facing large pay cuts in a time of high inflation. Lump into that credit card debt and mortgage payments going up. This government will default to austerity, whilst we are in a recession. Its like watching a slow motion car crash. Sure they will continue wasting money by trying to continually patch things up. Rather than addressing what should have been addressed when the banks crashed the economy in 2008. People will only tolerate a certain level of inequality until they lose their rag on mass. How do you suggest this crisis is dealt with? At least try to pay with inflation as at least that will eat people's debt and same will apply to the national debt. Whilst doing this fix peoples mortgages for at least 5 years, so rates can be raised without causing mass homelessness. This would also leverage the inflation to eat the mortgage debt. Take big steps to address supply chains, start on shoring as much as possible. Restructure the banks, so their main purpose is business lending and venture capital. Not lending for buy to let. Build affordable housing owned by the government, rather than spending tens of billions on housing benefit. That would be a start, but I'm sure there would be economists with far greater understanding and ideas. Basically we need to move away from being short termist/no planning and riddled with productivity sapping renteirism. To an economy that is about increasing productivity and leveraging technology. This requires vision and strategy from government. Also clean up all the lobbying and corruption. Raising wages in line with inflation will push inflation higher and you end up in a loop with no end. A hike in interest rates, deters spending and should bring inflation down, it isn't pretty and it will hurt many. " Yes it happened in the 70,s a spiralling rise of wages and increased prices they fuel each other. | |||
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Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Expect more strikes from other sectors. If the government refuse to honour raising pay with inflation. What do they expect?? They clearly have no ideas to deal with this crisis. Interest rates will go up considerably soon to counter inflation. Most workers will be facing ruin, if this persists. What happens to the economy when workers are facing large pay cuts in a time of high inflation. Lump into that credit card debt and mortgage payments going up. This government will default to austerity, whilst we are in a recession. Its like watching a slow motion car crash. Sure they will continue wasting money by trying to continually patch things up. Rather than addressing what should have been addressed when the banks crashed the economy in 2008. People will only tolerate a certain level of inequality until they lose their rag on mass. How do you suggest this crisis is dealt with? At least try to pay with inflation as at least that will eat people's debt and same will apply to the national debt. Whilst doing this fix peoples mortgages for at least 5 years, so rates can be raised without causing mass homelessness. This would also leverage the inflation to eat the mortgage debt. Take big steps to address supply chains, start on shoring as much as possible. Restructure the banks, so their main purpose is business lending and venture capital. Not lending for buy to let. Build affordable housing owned by the government, rather than spending tens of billions on housing benefit. That would be a start, but I'm sure there would be economists with far greater understanding and ideas. Basically we need to move away from being short termist/no planning and riddled with productivity sapping renteirism. To an economy that is about increasing productivity and leveraging technology. This requires vision and strategy from government. Also clean up all the lobbying and corruption. Raising wages in line with inflation will push inflation higher and you end up in a loop with no end. A hike in interest rates, deters spending and should bring inflation down, it isn't pretty and it will hurt many. " We’re buying less anyway and due to austerity there is nowhere to go. The underlying costs associated with goods are now the problem and not wages as much. It’s going to get very painful though I do agree with you there. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Expect more strikes from other sectors. If the government refuse to honour raising pay with inflation. What do they expect?? They clearly have no ideas to deal with this crisis. Interest rates will go up considerably soon to counter inflation. Most workers will be facing ruin, if this persists. What happens to the economy when workers are facing large pay cuts in a time of high inflation. Lump into that credit card debt and mortgage payments going up. This government will default to austerity, whilst we are in a recession. Its like watching a slow motion car crash. Sure they will continue wasting money by trying to continually patch things up. Rather than addressing what should have been addressed when the banks crashed the economy in 2008. People will only tolerate a certain level of inequality until they lose their rag on mass. How do you suggest this crisis is dealt with? At least try to pay with inflation as at least that will eat people's debt and same will apply to the national debt. Whilst doing this fix peoples mortgages for at least 5 years, so rates can be raised without causing mass homelessness. This would also leverage the inflation to eat the mortgage debt. Take big steps to address supply chains, start on shoring as much as possible. Restructure the banks, so their main purpose is business lending and venture capital. Not lending for buy to let. Build affordable housing owned by the government, rather than spending tens of billions on housing benefit. That would be a start, but I'm sure there would be economists with far greater understanding and ideas. Basically we need to move away from being short termist/no planning and riddled with productivity sapping renteirism. To an economy that is about increasing productivity and leveraging technology. This requires vision and strategy from government. Also clean up all the lobbying and corruption. Raising wages in line with inflation will push inflation higher and you end up in a loop with no end. A hike in interest rates, deters spending and should bring inflation down, it isn't pretty and it will hurt many. We’re buying less anyway and due to austerity there is nowhere to go. The underlying costs associated with goods are now the problem and not wages as much. It’s going to get very painful though I do agree with you there. " Definitely putin could not have picked a worse time to start a war (not just for the ukraine but the whole world) as it was coming out of a 2 year shutdown due to covid. | |||
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"Expect more strikes from other sectors. If the government refuse to honour raising pay with inflation. What do they expect?? They clearly have no ideas to deal with this crisis. Interest rates will go up considerably soon to counter inflation. Most workers will be facing ruin, if this persists. What happens to the economy when workers are facing large pay cuts in a time of high inflation. Lump into that credit card debt and mortgage payments going up. This government will default to austerity, whilst we are in a recession. Its like watching a slow motion car crash. Sure they will continue wasting money by trying to continually patch things up. Rather than addressing what should have been addressed when the banks crashed the economy in 2008. People will only tolerate a certain level of inequality until they lose their rag on mass. How do you suggest this crisis is dealt with? At least try to pay with inflation as at least that will eat people's debt and same will apply to the national debt. Whilst doing this fix peoples mortgages for at least 5 years, so rates can be raised without causing mass homelessness. This would also leverage the inflation to eat the mortgage debt. Take big steps to address supply chains, start on shoring as much as possible. Restructure the banks, so their main purpose is business lending and venture capital. Not lending for buy to let. Build affordable housing owned by the government, rather than spending tens of billions on housing benefit. That would be a start, but I'm sure there would be economists with far greater understanding and ideas. Basically we need to move away from being short termist/no planning and riddled with productivity sapping renteirism. To an economy that is about increasing productivity and leveraging technology. This requires vision and strategy from government. Also clean up all the lobbying and corruption. Raising wages in line with inflation will push inflation higher and you end up in a loop with no end. A hike in interest rates, deters spending and should bring inflation down, it isn't pretty and it will hurt many. We’re buying less anyway and due to austerity there is nowhere to go. The underlying costs associated with goods are now the problem and not wages as much. It’s going to get very painful though I do agree with you there. Definitely putin could not have picked a worse time to start a war (not just for the ukraine but the whole world) as it was coming out of a 2 year shutdown due to covid. " Yes true It also exposes how integrated we are and cannot survive alone anymore, We need smart honest government. Maybe reform our electoral system first before we can grow or plan anything. Our system isn’t working . | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Expect more strikes from other sectors. If the government refuse to honour raising pay with inflation. What do they expect?? They clearly have no ideas to deal with this crisis. Interest rates will go up considerably soon to counter inflation. Most workers will be facing ruin, if this persists. What happens to the economy when workers are facing large pay cuts in a time of high inflation. Lump into that credit card debt and mortgage payments going up. This government will default to austerity, whilst we are in a recession. Its like watching a slow motion car crash. Sure they will continue wasting money by trying to continually patch things up. Rather than addressing what should have been addressed when the banks crashed the economy in 2008. People will only tolerate a certain level of inequality until they lose their rag on mass. How do you suggest this crisis is dealt with? At least try to pay with inflation as at least that will eat people's debt and same will apply to the national debt. Whilst doing this fix peoples mortgages for at least 5 years, so rates can be raised without causing mass homelessness. This would also leverage the inflation to eat the mortgage debt. Take big steps to address supply chains, start on shoring as much as possible. Restructure the banks, so their main purpose is business lending and venture capital. Not lending for buy to let. Build affordable housing owned by the government, rather than spending tens of billions on housing benefit. That would be a start, but I'm sure there would be economists with far greater understanding and ideas. Basically we need to move away from being short termist/no planning and riddled with productivity sapping renteirism. To an economy that is about increasing productivity and leveraging technology. This requires vision and strategy from government. Also clean up all the lobbying and corruption. Raising wages in line with inflation will push inflation higher and you end up in a loop with no end. A hike in interest rates, deters spending and should bring inflation down, it isn't pretty and it will hurt many. We’re buying less anyway and due to austerity there is nowhere to go. The underlying costs associated with goods are now the problem and not wages as much. It’s going to get very painful though I do agree with you there. Definitely putin could not have picked a worse time to start a war (not just for the ukraine but the whole world) as it was coming out of a 2 year shutdown due to covid. Yes true It also exposes how integrated we are and cannot survive alone anymore, We need smart honest government. Maybe reform our electoral system first before we can grow or plan anything. Our system isn’t working . " yeah back to your favourite topic  im not in favour of it at all you only had to see the fiasco that happened after the Brexit result when you have a government that cant do anything, how do you think the tory/ lib dem coalition went a few years back was you happy with that? | |||
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"Expect more strikes from other sectors. If the government refuse to honour raising pay with inflation. What do they expect?? They clearly have no ideas to deal with this crisis. Interest rates will go up considerably soon to counter inflation. Most workers will be facing ruin, if this persists. What happens to the economy when workers are facing large pay cuts in a time of high inflation. Lump into that credit card debt and mortgage payments going up. This government will default to austerity, whilst we are in a recession. Its like watching a slow motion car crash. Sure they will continue wasting money by trying to continually patch things up. Rather than addressing what should have been addressed when the banks crashed the economy in 2008. People will only tolerate a certain level of inequality until they lose their rag on mass. How do you suggest this crisis is dealt with? At least try to pay with inflation as at least that will eat people's debt and same will apply to the national debt. Whilst doing this fix peoples mortgages for at least 5 years, so rates can be raised without causing mass homelessness. This would also leverage the inflation to eat the mortgage debt. Take big steps to address supply chains, start on shoring as much as possible. Restructure the banks, so their main purpose is business lending and venture capital. Not lending for buy to let. Build affordable housing owned by the government, rather than spending tens of billions on housing benefit. That would be a start, but I'm sure there would be economists with far greater understanding and ideas. Basically we need to move away from being short termist/no planning and riddled with productivity sapping renteirism. To an economy that is about increasing productivity and leveraging technology. This requires vision and strategy from government. Also clean up all the lobbying and corruption. Raising wages in line with inflation will push inflation higher and you end up in a loop with no end. A hike in interest rates, deters spending and should bring inflation down, it isn't pretty and it will hurt many. We’re buying less anyway and due to austerity there is nowhere to go. The underlying costs associated with goods are now the problem and not wages as much. It’s going to get very painful though I do agree with you there. Definitely putin could not have picked a worse time to start a war (not just for the ukraine but the whole world) as it was coming out of a 2 year shutdown due to covid. Yes true It also exposes how integrated we are and cannot survive alone anymore, We need smart honest government. Maybe reform our electoral system first before we can grow or plan anything. Our system isn’t working . yeah back to your favourite topic im not in favour of it at all you only had to see the fiasco that happened after the Brexit result when you have a government that cant do anything, how do you think the tory/ lib dem coalition went a few years back was you happy with that?"I think the pact of a few years ago yet again didn’t have a long term plan. Cameron and Clegg both had sone good ideas but again vested interests such as the Tory right wing stifled any progress. It was about power not policy. The old guard needs kicking out and start with the 830 lords . No money for political parties from anyone. Only government funding based on membership numbers. Money has too much influence over decisions . | |||
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"Expect more strikes from other sectors. If the government refuse to honour raising pay with inflation. What do they expect?? They clearly have no ideas to deal with this crisis. Interest rates will go up considerably soon to counter inflation. Most workers will be facing ruin, if this persists. What happens to the economy when workers are facing large pay cuts in a time of high inflation. Lump into that credit card debt and mortgage payments going up. This government will default to austerity, whilst we are in a recession. Its like watching a slow motion car crash. Sure they will continue wasting money by trying to continually patch things up. Rather than addressing what should have been addressed when the banks crashed the economy in 2008. People will only tolerate a certain level of inequality until they lose their rag on mass. How do you suggest this crisis is dealt with? At least try to pay with inflation as at least that will eat people's debt and same will apply to the national debt. Whilst doing this fix peoples mortgages for at least 5 years, so rates can be raised without causing mass homelessness. This would also leverage the inflation to eat the mortgage debt. Take big steps to address supply chains, start on shoring as much as possible. Restructure the banks, so their main purpose is business lending and venture capital. Not lending for buy to let. Build affordable housing owned by the government, rather than spending tens of billions on housing benefit. That would be a start, but I'm sure there would be economists with far greater understanding and ideas. Basically we need to move away from being short termist/no planning and riddled with productivity sapping renteirism. To an economy that is about increasing productivity and leveraging technology. This requires vision and strategy from government. Also clean up all the lobbying and corruption. Raising wages in line with inflation will push inflation higher and you end up in a loop with no end. A hike in interest rates, deters spending and should bring inflation down, it isn't pretty and it will hurt many. " how high will rates have to be hiked, that was feasible in 70's 80's as house prices were much lower, wages were relatively higher 1 income could feed a family back then. There was hardly any credit cards debt back then. We had a trade surplus pre thatcher. National debt was nowhere near where it is now. I don't think the economy has the wiggle room for double digit interest rates to combat double digit inflation. | |||
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"Expect more strikes from other sectors. If the government refuse to honour raising pay with inflation. What do they expect?? They clearly have no ideas to deal with this crisis. Interest rates will go up considerably soon to counter inflation. Most workers will be facing ruin, if this persists. What happens to the economy when workers are facing large pay cuts in a time of high inflation. Lump into that credit card debt and mortgage payments going up. This government will default to austerity, whilst we are in a recession. Its like watching a slow motion car crash. Sure they will continue wasting money by trying to continually patch things up. Rather than addressing what should have been addressed when the banks crashed the economy in 2008. People will only tolerate a certain level of inequality until they lose their rag on mass. How do you suggest this crisis is dealt with? At least try to pay with inflation as at least that will eat people's debt and same will apply to the national debt. Whilst doing this fix peoples mortgages for at least 5 years, so rates can be raised without causing mass homelessness. This would also leverage the inflation to eat the mortgage debt. Take big steps to address supply chains, start on shoring as much as possible. Restructure the banks, so their main purpose is business lending and venture capital. Not lending for buy to let. Build affordable housing owned by the government, rather than spending tens of billions on housing benefit. That would be a start, but I'm sure there would be economists with far greater understanding and ideas. Basically we need to move away from being short termist/no planning and riddled with productivity sapping renteirism. To an economy that is about increasing productivity and leveraging technology. This requires vision and strategy from government. Also clean up all the lobbying and corruption. Raising wages in line with inflation will push inflation higher and you end up in a loop with no end. A hike in interest rates, deters spending and should bring inflation down, it isn't pretty and it will hurt many. how high will rates have to be hiked, that was feasible in 70's 80's as house prices were much lower, wages were relatively higher 1 income could feed a family back then. There was hardly any credit cards debt back then. We had a trade surplus pre thatcher. National debt was nowhere near where it is now. I don't think the economy has the wiggle room for double digit interest rates to combat double digit inflation. " I agree with this . The situation is very different. | |||
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"Expect more strikes from other sectors. If the government refuse to honour raising pay with inflation. What do they expect?? They clearly have no ideas to deal with this crisis. Interest rates will go up considerably soon to counter inflation. Most workers will be facing ruin, if this persists. What happens to the economy when workers are facing large pay cuts in a time of high inflation. Lump into that credit card debt and mortgage payments going up. This government will default to austerity, whilst we are in a recession. Its like watching a slow motion car crash. Sure they will continue wasting money by trying to continually patch things up. Rather than addressing what should have been addressed when the banks crashed the economy in 2008. People will only tolerate a certain level of inequality until they lose their rag on mass. How do you suggest this crisis is dealt with? At least try to pay with inflation as at least that will eat people's debt and same will apply to the national debt. Whilst doing this fix peoples mortgages for at least 5 years, so rates can be raised without causing mass homelessness. This would also leverage the inflation to eat the mortgage debt. Take big steps to address supply chains, start on shoring as much as possible. Restructure the banks, so their main purpose is business lending and venture capital. Not lending for buy to let. Build affordable housing owned by the government, rather than spending tens of billions on housing benefit. That would be a start, but I'm sure there would be economists with far greater understanding and ideas. Basically we need to move away from being short termist/no planning and riddled with productivity sapping renteirism. To an economy that is about increasing productivity and leveraging technology. This requires vision and strategy from government. Also clean up all the lobbying and corruption. Raising wages in line with inflation will push inflation higher and you end up in a loop with no end. A hike in interest rates, deters spending and should bring inflation down, it isn't pretty and it will hurt many. We’re buying less anyway and due to austerity there is nowhere to go. The underlying costs associated with goods are now the problem and not wages as much. It’s going to get very painful though I do agree with you there. Definitely putin could not have picked a worse time to start a war (not just for the ukraine but the whole world) as it was coming out of a 2 year shutdown due to covid. Yes true It also exposes how integrated we are and cannot survive alone anymore, We need smart honest government. Maybe reform our electoral system first before we can grow or plan anything. Our system isn’t working . yeah back to your favourite topic im not in favour of it at all you only had to see the fiasco that happened after the Brexit result when you have a government that cant do anything, how do you think the tory/ lib dem coalition went a few years back was you happy with that?
I think the pact of a few years ago yet again didn’t have a long term plan. Cameron and Clegg both had sone good ideas but again vested interests such as the Tory right wing stifled any progress. It was about power not policy.
The old guard needs kicking out and start with the 830 lords .
No money for political parties from anyone. Only government funding based on membership numbers.
Money has too much influence over decisions . "I agree on the lords, far to many and its time they went. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Expect more strikes from other sectors. If the government refuse to honour raising pay with inflation. What do they expect?? They clearly have no ideas to deal with this crisis. Interest rates will go up considerably soon to counter inflation. Most workers will be facing ruin, if this persists. What happens to the economy when workers are facing large pay cuts in a time of high inflation. Lump into that credit card debt and mortgage payments going up. This government will default to austerity, whilst we are in a recession. Its like watching a slow motion car crash. Sure they will continue wasting money by trying to continually patch things up. Rather than addressing what should have been addressed when the banks crashed the economy in 2008. People will only tolerate a certain level of inequality until they lose their rag on mass. How do you suggest this crisis is dealt with? At least try to pay with inflation as at least that will eat people's debt and same will apply to the national debt. Whilst doing this fix peoples mortgages for at least 5 years, so rates can be raised without causing mass homelessness. This would also leverage the inflation to eat the mortgage debt. Take big steps to address supply chains, start on shoring as much as possible. Restructure the banks, so their main purpose is business lending and venture capital. Not lending for buy to let. Build affordable housing owned by the government, rather than spending tens of billions on housing benefit. That would be a start, but I'm sure there would be economists with far greater understanding and ideas. Basically we need to move away from being short termist/no planning and riddled with productivity sapping renteirism. To an economy that is about increasing productivity and leveraging technology. This requires vision and strategy from government. Also clean up all the lobbying and corruption. Raising wages in line with inflation will push inflation higher and you end up in a loop with no end. A hike in interest rates, deters spending and should bring inflation down, it isn't pretty and it will hurt many. We’re buying less anyway and due to austerity there is nowhere to go. The underlying costs associated with goods are now the problem and not wages as much. It’s going to get very painful though I do agree with you there. " I agree we are clearly already in recession, the inflation has killed demand anyway. Also Belgium and luxemberg still have manditory wages rises linked to CPI. We have higher inflation than both those countries. I think this disproves the wage rises will fuel runaway inflation. Its just the government playing disaster politics to drive down wages, as that is their flawed idiology. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
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Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Expect more strikes from other sectors. If the government refuse to honour raising pay with inflation. What do they expect?? They clearly have no ideas to deal with this crisis. Interest rates will go up considerably soon to counter inflation. Most workers will be facing ruin, if this persists. What happens to the economy when workers are facing large pay cuts in a time of high inflation. Lump into that credit card debt and mortgage payments going up. This government will default to austerity, whilst we are in a recession. Its like watching a slow motion car crash. Sure they will continue wasting money by trying to continually patch things up. Rather than addressing what should have been addressed when the banks crashed the economy in 2008. People will only tolerate a certain level of inequality until they lose their rag on mass. How do you suggest this crisis is dealt with? At least try to pay with inflation as at least that will eat people's debt and same will apply to the national debt. Whilst doing this fix peoples mortgages for at least 5 years, so rates can be raised without causing mass homelessness. This would also leverage the inflation to eat the mortgage debt. Take big steps to address supply chains, start on shoring as much as possible. Restructure the banks, so their main purpose is business lending and venture capital. Not lending for buy to let. Build affordable housing owned by the government, rather than spending tens of billions on housing benefit. That would be a start, but I'm sure there would be economists with far greater understanding and ideas. Basically we need to move away from being short termist/no planning and riddled with productivity sapping renteirism. To an economy that is about increasing productivity and leveraging technology. This requires vision and strategy from government. Also clean up all the lobbying and corruption. Raising wages in line with inflation will push inflation higher and you end up in a loop with no end. A hike in interest rates, deters spending and should bring inflation down, it isn't pretty and it will hurt many. We’re buying less anyway and due to austerity there is nowhere to go. The underlying costs associated with goods are now the problem and not wages as much. It’s going to get very painful though I do agree with you there. I agree we are clearly already in recession, the inflation has killed demand anyway. Also Belgium and luxemberg still have manditory wages rises linked to CPI. We have higher inflation than both those countries. I think this disproves the wage rises will fuel runaway inflation. Its just the government playing disaster politics to drive down wages, as that is their flawed idiology." well yeah i guess you know best then and what has happened in the past is irrelevant.  | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Expect more strikes from other sectors. If the government refuse to honour raising pay with inflation. What do they expect?? They clearly have no ideas to deal with this crisis. Interest rates will go up considerably soon to counter inflation. Most workers will be facing ruin, if this persists. What happens to the economy when workers are facing large pay cuts in a time of high inflation. Lump into that credit card debt and mortgage payments going up. This government will default to austerity, whilst we are in a recession. Its like watching a slow motion car crash. Sure they will continue wasting money by trying to continually patch things up. Rather than addressing what should have been addressed when the banks crashed the economy in 2008. People will only tolerate a certain level of inequality until they lose their rag on mass. How do you suggest this crisis is dealt with? At least try to pay with inflation as at least that will eat people's debt and same will apply to the national debt. Whilst doing this fix peoples mortgages for at least 5 years, so rates can be raised without causing mass homelessness. This would also leverage the inflation to eat the mortgage debt. Take big steps to address supply chains, start on shoring as much as possible. Restructure the banks, so their main purpose is business lending and venture capital. Not lending for buy to let. Build affordable housing owned by the government, rather than spending tens of billions on housing benefit. That would be a start, but I'm sure there would be economists with far greater understanding and ideas. Basically we need to move away from being short termist/no planning and riddled with productivity sapping renteirism. To an economy that is about increasing productivity and leveraging technology. This requires vision and strategy from government. Also clean up all the lobbying and corruption. Raising wages in line with inflation will push inflation higher and you end up in a loop with no end. A hike in interest rates, deters spending and should bring inflation down, it isn't pretty and it will hurt many. We’re buying less anyway and due to austerity there is nowhere to go. The underlying costs associated with goods are now the problem and not wages as much. It’s going to get very painful though I do agree with you there. I agree we are clearly already in recession, the inflation has killed demand anyway. Also Belgium and luxemberg still have manditory wages rises linked to CPI. We have higher inflation than both those countries. I think this disproves the wage rises will fuel runaway inflation. Its just the government playing disaster politics to drive down wages, as that is their flawed idiology." It really isn't the government, the bank of England provides the strategy. Inflation is going up because people are still spending, that is how it works, spending and borrowing money to spend, drives inflation. But don't forget this is on a global stage, oil, gas, grain etc. There is no positive outcome other than venting some anger, in associating every past government blunder on cost of living crisis we have now. It is very clear that a global market place is what we are part of and that market is under extreme pressure due to the war in Ukraine and coming out of a pandemic. The situation we have now would be exactly the same whoever was in power, the direction we go in would probably be similar for who ever is in power too. It can be really easy to mudsling and say under this government it is worse, but that is an unrealistic argument, as there is nothing to compare what this government is doing now to anything else for the last 12 years. The reality of this is going to be tough for those that can least afford it. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"It looks like we are dealing with some of the most selfish people that exist in society. If they think that they are underpaid they should seek a job elsewhere. As things stand train drivers are vastly overpaid. We should be looking to cut their pay , not increase it. There is no valid reason to pay a train driver £60, 000. The union boss lives in a world far removed from reality. He earns £120000 per annum and owns a house worth circ £1 million . Let hope the government win this one and repeat what happened to Arthur Scargill. Their demands are an insult to every working class person. Let's hope the government wins and automation kicks in ASAP. " PMSL | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"It looks like we are dealing with some of the most selfish people that exist in society. If they think that they are underpaid they should seek a job elsewhere. As things stand train drivers are vastly overpaid. We should be looking to cut their pay , not increase it. There is no valid reason to pay a train driver £60, 000. The union boss lives in a world far removed from reality. He earns £120000 per annum and owns a house worth circ £1 million . Let hope the government win this one and repeat what happened to Arthur Scargill. Their demands are an insult to every working class person. Let's hope the government wins and automation kicks in ASAP. " Btw, £120,000 for a head or CEO of huge number of people is peanuts | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
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Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Expect more strikes from other sectors. If the government refuse to honour raising pay with inflation. What do they expect?? They clearly have no ideas to deal with this crisis. Interest rates will go up considerably soon to counter inflation. Most workers will be facing ruin, if this persists. What happens to the economy when workers are facing large pay cuts in a time of high inflation. Lump into that credit card debt and mortgage payments going up. This government will default to austerity, whilst we are in a recession. Its like watching a slow motion car crash. Sure they will continue wasting money by trying to continually patch things up. Rather than addressing what should have been addressed when the banks crashed the economy in 2008. People will only tolerate a certain level of inequality until they lose their rag on mass. How do you suggest this crisis is dealt with? At least try to pay with inflation as at least that will eat people's debt and same will apply to the national debt. Whilst doing this fix peoples mortgages for at least 5 years, so rates can be raised without causing mass homelessness. This would also leverage the inflation to eat the mortgage debt. Take big steps to address supply chains, start on shoring as much as possible. Restructure the banks, so their main purpose is business lending and venture capital. Not lending for buy to let. Build affordable housing owned by the government, rather than spending tens of billions on housing benefit. That would be a start, but I'm sure there would be economists with far greater understanding and ideas. Basically we need to move away from being short termist/no planning and riddled with productivity sapping renteirism. To an economy that is about increasing productivity and leveraging technology. This requires vision and strategy from government. Also clean up all the lobbying and corruption. Raising wages in line with inflation will push inflation higher and you end up in a loop with no end. A hike in interest rates, deters spending and should bring inflation down, it isn't pretty and it will hurt many. We’re buying less anyway and due to austerity there is nowhere to go. The underlying costs associated with goods are now the problem and not wages as much. It’s going to get very painful though I do agree with you there. I agree we are clearly already in recession, the inflation has killed demand anyway. Also Belgium and luxemberg still have manditory wages rises linked to CPI. We have higher inflation than both those countries. I think this disproves the wage rises will fuel runaway inflation. Its just the government playing disaster politics to drive down wages, as that is their flawed idiology. It really isn't the government, the bank of England provides the strategy. Inflation is going up because people are still spending, that is how it works, spending and borrowing money to spend, drives inflation. But don't forget this is on a global stage, oil, gas, grain etc. There is no positive outcome other than venting some anger, in associating every past government blunder on cost of living crisis we have now. It is very clear that a global market place is what we are part of and that market is under extreme pressure due to the war in Ukraine and coming out of a pandemic. The situation we have now would be exactly the same whoever was in power, the direction we go in would probably be similar for who ever is in power too. It can be really easy to mudsling and say under this government it is worse, but that is an unrealistic argument, as there is nothing to compare what this government is doing now to anything else for the last 12 years. The reality of this is going to be tough for those that can least afford it." I don't think bank of England has anything to do with setting public sector pay etc... Also no one voted for the bank of England to run the country. Should that system of independance be revised now the BOE have failed to maintain inflation at 2% since at least 2008. I don't think the situation would be the same who ever we had in power. This government makes a lot of bad decisions. It was only a week ago the chancellor lost 11billion on an interest payment mistake! Our susceptibility to the global impacts are also a product of Government ideology of never investing for a rainy day. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Expect more strikes from other sectors. If the government refuse to honour raising pay with inflation. What do they expect?? They clearly have no ideas to deal with this crisis. Interest rates will go up considerably soon to counter inflation. Most workers will be facing ruin, if this persists. What happens to the economy when workers are facing large pay cuts in a time of high inflation. Lump into that credit card debt and mortgage payments going up. This government will default to austerity, whilst we are in a recession. Its like watching a slow motion car crash. Sure they will continue wasting money by trying to continually patch things up. Rather than addressing what should have been addressed when the banks crashed the economy in 2008. People will only tolerate a certain level of inequality until they lose their rag on mass. How do you suggest this crisis is dealt with? At least try to pay with inflation as at least that will eat people's debt and same will apply to the national debt. Whilst doing this fix peoples mortgages for at least 5 years, so rates can be raised without causing mass homelessness. This would also leverage the inflation to eat the mortgage debt. Take big steps to address supply chains, start on shoring as much as possible. Restructure the banks, so their main purpose is business lending and venture capital. Not lending for buy to let. Build affordable housing owned by the government, rather than spending tens of billions on housing benefit. That would be a start, but I'm sure there would be economists with far greater understanding and ideas. Basically we need to move away from being short termist/no planning and riddled with productivity sapping renteirism. To an economy that is about increasing productivity and leveraging technology. This requires vision and strategy from government. Also clean up all the lobbying and corruption. Raising wages in line with inflation will push inflation higher and you end up in a loop with no end. A hike in interest rates, deters spending and should bring inflation down, it isn't pretty and it will hurt many. We’re buying less anyway and due to austerity there is nowhere to go. The underlying costs associated with goods are now the problem and not wages as much. It’s going to get very painful though I do agree with you there. I agree we are clearly already in recession, the inflation has killed demand anyway. Also Belgium and luxemberg still have manditory wages rises linked to CPI. We have higher inflation than both those countries. I think this disproves the wage rises will fuel runaway inflation. Its just the government playing disaster politics to drive down wages, as that is their flawed idiology." In balance CPI can be lower than inflation as it doesn’t include interest on loans or mortgages. So its lower than RPI which is more related to BBC what we pay. It is however a good idea to build in something rather than a freeze. I’d be interested what state pensions are in Belgium though. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
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Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Expect more strikes from other sectors. If the government refuse to honour raising pay with inflation. What do they expect?? They clearly have no ideas to deal with this crisis. Interest rates will go up considerably soon to counter inflation. Most workers will be facing ruin, if this persists. What happens to the economy when workers are facing large pay cuts in a time of high inflation. Lump into that credit card debt and mortgage payments going up. This government will default to austerity, whilst we are in a recession. Its like watching a slow motion car crash. Sure they will continue wasting money by trying to continually patch things up. Rather than addressing what should have been addressed when the banks crashed the economy in 2008. People will only tolerate a certain level of inequality until they lose their rag on mass. How do you suggest this crisis is dealt with? At least try to pay with inflation as at least that will eat people's debt and same will apply to the national debt. Whilst doing this fix peoples mortgages for at least 5 years, so rates can be raised without causing mass homelessness. This would also leverage the inflation to eat the mortgage debt. Take big steps to address supply chains, start on shoring as much as possible. Restructure the banks, so their main purpose is business lending and venture capital. Not lending for buy to let. Build affordable housing owned by the government, rather than spending tens of billions on housing benefit. That would be a start, but I'm sure there would be economists with far greater understanding and ideas. Basically we need to move away from being short termist/no planning and riddled with productivity sapping renteirism. To an economy that is about increasing productivity and leveraging technology. This requires vision and strategy from government. Also clean up all the lobbying and corruption. Raising wages in line with inflation will push inflation higher and you end up in a loop with no end. A hike in interest rates, deters spending and should bring inflation down, it isn't pretty and it will hurt many. We’re buying less anyway and due to austerity there is nowhere to go. The underlying costs associated with goods are now the problem and not wages as much. It’s going to get very painful though I do agree with you there. I agree we are clearly already in recession, the inflation has killed demand anyway. Also Belgium and luxemberg still have manditory wages rises linked to CPI. We have higher inflation than both those countries. I think this disproves the wage rises will fuel runaway inflation. Its just the government playing disaster politics to drive down wages, as that is their flawed idiology. It really isn't the government, the bank of England provides the strategy. Inflation is going up because people are still spending, that is how it works, spending and borrowing money to spend, drives inflation. But don't forget this is on a global stage, oil, gas, grain etc. There is no positive outcome other than venting some anger, in associating every past government blunder on cost of living crisis we have now. It is very clear that a global market place is what we are part of and that market is under extreme pressure due to the war in Ukraine and coming out of a pandemic. The situation we have now would be exactly the same whoever was in power, the direction we go in would probably be similar for who ever is in power too. It can be really easy to mudsling and say under this government it is worse, but that is an unrealistic argument, as there is nothing to compare what this government is doing now to anything else for the last 12 years. The reality of this is going to be tough for those that can least afford it." The Bank of England only set interest rates or print money basically plus’s a few tinkering tools and in this case those tools are not sufficient. You see it’s not because we are buying too much in this case. Even Tesco have said we’re spending less. So internet rate increases are going to hurt far more than ever before, It’s the cost of importing goods and production that’s fuelling inflation. Wages have been under inflation for years so there is very little the BoE can do. The blame is squarely at the feet of government as they have done nothing to boost or direct the economy in Na positive way and just scramble to fill the gaps we have had since the crash, the terrible lack of a plan has been covering up the embedded problem. I also blame Gordon brown for not realing in the banks when he could. Our economy is not structured to develop in todays fast moving world and too much of our growth had been invested by large property groups and foreign investments. Reece mogg is a good example of where our money goes. Look up his investment portfolios. We’ve let the rich corner this country’s wealth. We have a lot of catching up to do but this government are not coming up with a plan. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"It looks like we are dealing with some of the most selfish people that exist in society. If they think that they are underpaid they should seek a job elsewhere. As things stand train drivers are vastly overpaid. We should be looking to cut their pay , not increase it. There is no valid reason to pay a train driver £60, 000. The union boss lives in a world far removed from reality. He earns £120000 per annum and owns a house worth circ £1 million . Let hope the government win this one and repeat what happened to Arthur Scargill. Their demands are an insult to every working class person. Let's hope the government wins and automation kicks in ASAP. " Always keen to share your sense of humour . Good for you. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Expect more strikes from other sectors. If the government refuse to honour raising pay with inflation. What do they expect?? They clearly have no ideas to deal with this crisis. Interest rates will go up considerably soon to counter inflation. Most workers will be facing ruin, if this persists. What happens to the economy when workers are facing large pay cuts in a time of high inflation. Lump into that credit card debt and mortgage payments going up. This government will default to austerity, whilst we are in a recession. Its like watching a slow motion car crash. Sure they will continue wasting money by trying to continually patch things up. Rather than addressing what should have been addressed when the banks crashed the economy in 2008. People will only tolerate a certain level of inequality until they lose their rag on mass. How do you suggest this crisis is dealt with? At least try to pay with inflation as at least that will eat people's debt and same will apply to the national debt. Whilst doing this fix peoples mortgages for at least 5 years, so rates can be raised without causing mass homelessness. This would also leverage the inflation to eat the mortgage debt. Take big steps to address supply chains, start on shoring as much as possible. Restructure the banks, so their main purpose is business lending and venture capital. Not lending for buy to let. Build affordable housing owned by the government, rather than spending tens of billions on housing benefit. That would be a start, but I'm sure there would be economists with far greater understanding and ideas. Basically we need to move away from being short termist/no planning and riddled with productivity sapping renteirism. To an economy that is about increasing productivity and leveraging technology. This requires vision and strategy from government. Also clean up all the lobbying and corruption. Raising wages in line with inflation will push inflation higher and you end up in a loop with no end. A hike in interest rates, deters spending and should bring inflation down, it isn't pretty and it will hurt many. We’re buying less anyway and due to austerity there is nowhere to go. The underlying costs associated with goods are now the problem and not wages as much. It’s going to get very painful though I do agree with you there. I agree we are clearly already in recession, the inflation has killed demand anyway. Also Belgium and luxemberg still have manditory wages rises linked to CPI. We have higher inflation than both those countries. I think this disproves the wage rises will fuel runaway inflation. Its just the government playing disaster politics to drive down wages, as that is their flawed idiology. It really isn't the government, the bank of England provides the strategy. Inflation is going up because people are still spending, that is how it works, spending and borrowing money to spend, drives inflation. But don't forget this is on a global stage, oil, gas, grain etc. There is no positive outcome other than venting some anger, in associating every past government blunder on cost of living crisis we have now. It is very clear that a global market place is what we are part of and that market is under extreme pressure due to the war in Ukraine and coming out of a pandemic. The situation we have now would be exactly the same whoever was in power, the direction we go in would probably be similar for who ever is in power too. It can be really easy to mudsling and say under this government it is worse, but that is an unrealistic argument, as there is nothing to compare what this government is doing now to anything else for the last 12 years. The reality of this is going to be tough for those that can least afford it. I don't think bank of England has anything to do with setting public sector pay etc... Also no one voted for the bank of England to run the country. Should that system of independance be revised now the BOE have failed to maintain inflation at 2% since at least 2008. I don't think the situation would be the same who ever we had in power. This government makes a lot of bad decisions. It was only a week ago the chancellor lost 11billion on an interest payment mistake! Our susceptibility to the global impacts are also a product of Government ideology of never investing for a rainy day. " The bank of England set interest rates and therefore will drive the strategy to bring down inflation. Let's be realistic, the money spent to keep the country afloat during the pandemic would / has spent most of our savings.... | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Expect more strikes from other sectors. If the government refuse to honour raising pay with inflation. What do they expect?? They clearly have no ideas to deal with this crisis. Interest rates will go up considerably soon to counter inflation. Most workers will be facing ruin, if this persists. What happens to the economy when workers are facing large pay cuts in a time of high inflation. Lump into that credit card debt and mortgage payments going up. This government will default to austerity, whilst we are in a recession. Its like watching a slow motion car crash. Sure they will continue wasting money by trying to continually patch things up. Rather than addressing what should have been addressed when the banks crashed the economy in 2008. People will only tolerate a certain level of inequality until they lose their rag on mass. How do you suggest this crisis is dealt with? At least try to pay with inflation as at least that will eat people's debt and same will apply to the national debt. Whilst doing this fix peoples mortgages for at least 5 years, so rates can be raised without causing mass homelessness. This would also leverage the inflation to eat the mortgage debt. Take big steps to address supply chains, start on shoring as much as possible. Restructure the banks, so their main purpose is business lending and venture capital. Not lending for buy to let. Build affordable housing owned by the government, rather than spending tens of billions on housing benefit. That would be a start, but I'm sure there would be economists with far greater understanding and ideas. Basically we need to move away from being short termist/no planning and riddled with productivity sapping renteirism. To an economy that is about increasing productivity and leveraging technology. This requires vision and strategy from government. Also clean up all the lobbying and corruption. Raising wages in line with inflation will push inflation higher and you end up in a loop with no end. A hike in interest rates, deters spending and should bring inflation down, it isn't pretty and it will hurt many. We’re buying less anyway and due to austerity there is nowhere to go. The underlying costs associated with goods are now the problem and not wages as much. It’s going to get very painful though I do agree with you there. I agree we are clearly already in recession, the inflation has killed demand anyway. Also Belgium and luxemberg still have manditory wages rises linked to CPI. We have higher inflation than both those countries. I think this disproves the wage rises will fuel runaway inflation. Its just the government playing disaster politics to drive down wages, as that is their flawed idiology. It really isn't the government, the bank of England provides the strategy. Inflation is going up because people are still spending, that is how it works, spending and borrowing money to spend, drives inflation. But don't forget this is on a global stage, oil, gas, grain etc. There is no positive outcome other than venting some anger, in associating every past government blunder on cost of living crisis we have now. It is very clear that a global market place is what we are part of and that market is under extreme pressure due to the war in Ukraine and coming out of a pandemic. The situation we have now would be exactly the same whoever was in power, the direction we go in would probably be similar for who ever is in power too. It can be really easy to mudsling and say under this government it is worse, but that is an unrealistic argument, as there is nothing to compare what this government is doing now to anything else for the last 12 years. The reality of this is going to be tough for those that can least afford it. I don't think bank of England has anything to do with setting public sector pay etc... Also no one voted for the bank of England to run the country. Should that system of independance be revised now the BOE have failed to maintain inflation at 2% since at least 2008. I don't think the situation would be the same who ever we had in power. This government makes a lot of bad decisions. It was only a week ago the chancellor lost 11billion on an interest payment mistake! Our susceptibility to the global impacts are also a product of Government ideology of never investing for a rainy day. " “Pay awards for about 45% of the public sector – including the armed forces, the police, teachers, the Senior Civil Service and the NHS –are decided by Government Ministers and based on the recommendation of eight Pay Review Bodies (PRBs).” It is funded by HM Treasury. BoE have nothing to do with it at all. "Inflation is going up because people are still spending, that is how it works, spending and borrowing money to spend, drives inflation. But don't forget this is on a global stage, oil, gas, grain etc. It is very clear that a global market place is what we are part of and that market is under extreme pressure due to the war in Ukraine and coming out of a pandemic." We are in an unusual situation. Inflation is not being caused by overheated consumer spending so the normal tools of interest rate rises won’t work. THIS inflation is, as later stated, caused by supply chain issues impacted by the pandemic and the war in Ukraine and (for the UK) exacerbated by Brexit. People aren’t buying more food or using more gas. The price increases are not being caused by consumption. | |||
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"Expect more strikes from other sectors. If the government refuse to honour raising pay with inflation. What do they expect?? They clearly have no ideas to deal with this crisis. Interest rates will go up considerably soon to counter inflation. Most workers will be facing ruin, if this persists. What happens to the economy when workers are facing large pay cuts in a time of high inflation. Lump into that credit card debt and mortgage payments going up. This government will default to austerity, whilst we are in a recession. Its like watching a slow motion car crash. Sure they will continue wasting money by trying to continually patch things up. Rather than addressing what should have been addressed when the banks crashed the economy in 2008. People will only tolerate a certain level of inequality until they lose their rag on mass. How do you suggest this crisis is dealt with? At least try to pay with inflation as at least that will eat people's debt and same will apply to the national debt. Whilst doing this fix peoples mortgages for at least 5 years, so rates can be raised without causing mass homelessness. This would also leverage the inflation to eat the mortgage debt. Take big steps to address supply chains, start on shoring as much as possible. Restructure the banks, so their main purpose is business lending and venture capital. Not lending for buy to let. Build affordable housing owned by the government, rather than spending tens of billions on housing benefit. That would be a start, but I'm sure there would be economists with far greater understanding and ideas. Basically we need to move away from being short termist/no planning and riddled with productivity sapping renteirism. To an economy that is about increasing productivity and leveraging technology. This requires vision and strategy from government. Also clean up all the lobbying and corruption. Raising wages in line with inflation will push inflation higher and you end up in a loop with no end. A hike in interest rates, deters spending and should bring inflation down, it isn't pretty and it will hurt many. We’re buying less anyway and due to austerity there is nowhere to go. The underlying costs associated with goods are now the problem and not wages as much. It’s going to get very painful though I do agree with you there. I agree we are clearly already in recession, the inflation has killed demand anyway. Also Belgium and luxemberg still have manditory wages rises linked to CPI. We have higher inflation than both those countries. I think this disproves the wage rises will fuel runaway inflation. Its just the government playing disaster politics to drive down wages, as that is their flawed idiology. It really isn't the government, the bank of England provides the strategy. Inflation is going up because people are still spending, that is how it works, spending and borrowing money to spend, drives inflation. But don't forget this is on a global stage, oil, gas, grain etc. There is no positive outcome other than venting some anger, in associating every past government blunder on cost of living crisis we have now. It is very clear that a global market place is what we are part of and that market is under extreme pressure due to the war in Ukraine and coming out of a pandemic. The situation we have now would be exactly the same whoever was in power, the direction we go in would probably be similar for who ever is in power too. It can be really easy to mudsling and say under this government it is worse, but that is an unrealistic argument, as there is nothing to compare what this government is doing now to anything else for the last 12 years. The reality of this is going to be tough for those that can least afford it. I don't think bank of England has anything to do with setting public sector pay etc... Also no one voted for the bank of England to run the country. Should that system of independance be revised now the BOE have failed to maintain inflation at 2% since at least 2008. I don't think the situation would be the same who ever we had in power. This government makes a lot of bad decisions. It was only a week ago the chancellor lost 11billion on an interest payment mistake! Our susceptibility to the global impacts are also a product of Government ideology of never investing for a rainy day. The bank of England set interest rates and therefore will drive the strategy to bring down inflation. Let's be realistic, the money spent to keep the country afloat during the pandemic would / has spent most of our savings.... " I agree with you but they acted on government policy. Furlough was a good idea although billions have been lost or stolen in principal I agreed with it. The Bank of England do not plan or dictate what direction is taken with the Economy. They handle the cash and tinker with interest . They know they can’t do a lot in this case which is why the increases are so little. The damage done could be worse than the symptoms. Wages can't get lower. The loss of money is down to selling off our silverware such as utilities and giving too many tax breaks. Free for all market forces are hurting us long term, The bankers caused the crash the workers paid the price with no wage increases and austerity. The high earning investors and bankers got extra tax breaks on top during austerity. The extra money retained was sent offshore not paid into the U.K. economy. | |||
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"Expect more strikes from other sectors. If the government refuse to honour raising pay with inflation. What do they expect?? They clearly have no ideas to deal with this crisis. Interest rates will go up considerably soon to counter inflation. Most workers will be facing ruin, if this persists. What happens to the economy when workers are facing large pay cuts in a time of high inflation. Lump into that credit card debt and mortgage payments going up. This government will default to austerity, whilst we are in a recession. Its like watching a slow motion car crash. Sure they will continue wasting money by trying to continually patch things up. Rather than addressing what should have been addressed when the banks crashed the economy in 2008. People will only tolerate a certain level of inequality until they lose their rag on mass. How do you suggest this crisis is dealt with? At least try to pay with inflation as at least that will eat people's debt and same will apply to the national debt. Whilst doing this fix peoples mortgages for at least 5 years, so rates can be raised without causing mass homelessness. This would also leverage the inflation to eat the mortgage debt. Take big steps to address supply chains, start on shoring as much as possible. Restructure the banks, so their main purpose is business lending and venture capital. Not lending for buy to let. Build affordable housing owned by the government, rather than spending tens of billions on housing benefit. That would be a start, but I'm sure there would be economists with far greater understanding and ideas. Basically we need to move away from being short termist/no planning and riddled with productivity sapping renteirism. To an economy that is about increasing productivity and leveraging technology. This requires vision and strategy from government. Also clean up all the lobbying and corruption. Raising wages in line with inflation will push inflation higher and you end up in a loop with no end. A hike in interest rates, deters spending and should bring inflation down, it isn't pretty and it will hurt many. We’re buying less anyway and due to austerity there is nowhere to go. The underlying costs associated with goods are now the problem and not wages as much. It’s going to get very painful though I do agree with you there. I agree we are clearly already in recession, the inflation has killed demand anyway. Also Belgium and luxemberg still have manditory wages rises linked to CPI. We have higher inflation than both those countries. I think this disproves the wage rises will fuel runaway inflation. Its just the government playing disaster politics to drive down wages, as that is their flawed idiology. It really isn't the government, the bank of England provides the strategy. Inflation is going up because people are still spending, that is how it works, spending and borrowing money to spend, drives inflation. But don't forget this is on a global stage, oil, gas, grain etc. There is no positive outcome other than venting some anger, in associating every past government blunder on cost of living crisis we have now. It is very clear that a global market place is what we are part of and that market is under extreme pressure due to the war in Ukraine and coming out of a pandemic. The situation we have now would be exactly the same whoever was in power, the direction we go in would probably be similar for who ever is in power too. It can be really easy to mudsling and say under this government it is worse, but that is an unrealistic argument, as there is nothing to compare what this government is doing now to anything else for the last 12 years. The reality of this is going to be tough for those that can least afford it. The Bank of England only set interest rates or print money basically plus’s a few tinkering tools and in this case those tools are not sufficient. You see it’s not because we are buying too much in this case. Even Tesco have said we’re spending less. So internet rate increases are going to hurt far more than ever before, It’s the cost of importing goods and production that’s fuelling inflation. Wages have been under inflation for years so there is very little the BoE can do. The blame is squarely at the feet of government as they have done nothing to boost or direct the economy in Na positive way and just scramble to fill the gaps we have had since the crash, the terrible lack of a plan has been covering up the embedded problem. I also blame Gordon brown for not realing in the banks when he could. Our economy is not structured to develop in todays fast moving world and too much of our growth had been invested by large property groups and foreign investments. Reece mogg is a good example of where our money goes. Look up his investment portfolios. We’ve let the rich corner this country’s wealth. We have a lot of catching up to do but this government are not coming up with a plan. " Tesco may see less buying but is it less spending? Are BP and Esso seeing less demand? Are energy suppliers seeing less being spent? The market on spending is global on items we are spending money on and we are buying against high demands across Europe and Asia, add to that food shortages such as grain and we are hitting all the prime products that kick our inflation northwards. If you think back to the start of lockdown, the price of fuel dropped as did inflation. One thing I would like to point out, I'm not supporting or discrediting the government here, I'm trying to put the facts in plain sight, without the emotional tie to a political party mudding the waters. | |||
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"Expect more strikes from other sectors. If the government refuse to honour raising pay with inflation. What do they expect?? They clearly have no ideas to deal with this crisis. Interest rates will go up considerably soon to counter inflation. Most workers will be facing ruin, if this persists. What happens to the economy when workers are facing large pay cuts in a time of high inflation. Lump into that credit card debt and mortgage payments going up. This government will default to austerity, whilst we are in a recession. Its like watching a slow motion car crash. Sure they will continue wasting money by trying to continually patch things up. Rather than addressing what should have been addressed when the banks crashed the economy in 2008. People will only tolerate a certain level of inequality until they lose their rag on mass. How do you suggest this crisis is dealt with? At least try to pay with inflation as at least that will eat people's debt and same will apply to the national debt. Whilst doing this fix peoples mortgages for at least 5 years, so rates can be raised without causing mass homelessness. This would also leverage the inflation to eat the mortgage debt. Take big steps to address supply chains, start on shoring as much as possible. Restructure the banks, so their main purpose is business lending and venture capital. Not lending for buy to let. Build affordable housing owned by the government, rather than spending tens of billions on housing benefit. That would be a start, but I'm sure there would be economists with far greater understanding and ideas. Basically we need to move away from being short termist/no planning and riddled with productivity sapping renteirism. To an economy that is about increasing productivity and leveraging technology. This requires vision and strategy from government. Also clean up all the lobbying and corruption. Raising wages in line with inflation will push inflation higher and you end up in a loop with no end. A hike in interest rates, deters spending and should bring inflation down, it isn't pretty and it will hurt many. We’re buying less anyway and due to austerity there is nowhere to go. The underlying costs associated with goods are now the problem and not wages as much. It’s going to get very painful though I do agree with you there. I agree we are clearly already in recession, the inflation has killed demand anyway. Also Belgium and luxemberg still have manditory wages rises linked to CPI. We have higher inflation than both those countries. I think this disproves the wage rises will fuel runaway inflation. Its just the government playing disaster politics to drive down wages, as that is their flawed idiology. It really isn't the government, the bank of England provides the strategy. Inflation is going up because people are still spending, that is how it works, spending and borrowing money to spend, drives inflation. But don't forget this is on a global stage, oil, gas, grain etc. There is no positive outcome other than venting some anger, in associating every past government blunder on cost of living crisis we have now. It is very clear that a global market place is what we are part of and that market is under extreme pressure due to the war in Ukraine and coming out of a pandemic. The situation we have now would be exactly the same whoever was in power, the direction we go in would probably be similar for who ever is in power too. It can be really easy to mudsling and say under this government it is worse, but that is an unrealistic argument, as there is nothing to compare what this government is doing now to anything else for the last 12 years. The reality of this is going to be tough for those that can least afford it. The Bank of England only set interest rates or print money basically plus’s a few tinkering tools and in this case those tools are not sufficient. You see it’s not because we are buying too much in this case. Even Tesco have said we’re spending less. So internet rate increases are going to hurt far more than ever before, It’s the cost of importing goods and production that’s fuelling inflation. Wages have been under inflation for years so there is very little the BoE can do. The blame is squarely at the feet of government as they have done nothing to boost or direct the economy in Na positive way and just scramble to fill the gaps we have had since the crash, the terrible lack of a plan has been covering up the embedded problem. I also blame Gordon brown for not realing in the banks when he could. Our economy is not structured to develop in todays fast moving world and too much of our growth had been invested by large property groups and foreign investments. Reece mogg is a good example of where our money goes. Look up his investment portfolios. We’ve let the rich corner this country’s wealth. We have a lot of catching up to do but this government are not coming up with a plan. Tesco may see less buying but is it less spending? Are BP and Esso seeing less demand? Are energy suppliers seeing less being spent? The market on spending is global on items we are spending money on and we are buying against high demands across Europe and Asia, add to that food shortages such as grain and we are hitting all the prime products that kick our inflation northwards. If you think back to the start of lockdown, the price of fuel dropped as did inflation. One thing I would like to point out, I'm not supporting or discrediting the government here, I'm trying to put the facts in plain sight, without the emotional tie to a political party mudding the waters. " In answer to your questions yes. Definitely less spending and I agree that this is more important than Boris / Starmer. We have a critical fundamental issue here and need better leadership in regards to a direction, I think we are in serious trouble. | |||
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"We average less than one return train trip a year. It does make us wonder how much essential goods travels by rail as opposed to lorry." It’s running at maximum capacity due to the lack of track time. HS2 will free up freight capacity. Trains will never carry as much as trucks and even if you double capacity it’s still only around 10% of tonnage but a container going from say Liverpool to hull has a tortuous route due to the Victorian low bridges. If we had invested the dividends into infrastructure then maybe we wouldn’t do many lease trains and invest in the building and maintenance of trains more in the U.K. It’s ridiculous that we are forty years behind France in high speed trains, Our fare system is also way too expensive, | |||
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"Has Shapps done anything at all to try and avert this strike? Will he? (More likely, he + Johnson will use this situation as another way to try and get the public angry at anybody but the government.)" Yep, people like Mr Hay are furious , bless them | |||
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"Has Shapps done anything at all to try and avert this strike? Will he? (More likely, he + Johnson will use this situation as another way to try and get the public angry at anybody but the government.) Yep, people like Mr Hay are furious , bless them "It's getting hard to keep track of all the people we're meant to be furious at by now. Lawyers. doctors. Lefties. Strikers. Railworkers etc... | |||
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"We average less than one return train trip a year. It does make us wonder how much essential goods travels by rail as opposed to lorry. It’s running at maximum capacity due to the lack of track time. HS2 will free up freight capacity. Trains will never carry as much as trucks and even if you double capacity it’s still only around 10% of tonnage but a container going from say Liverpool to hull has a tortuous route due to the Victorian low bridges. If we had invested the dividends into infrastructure then maybe we wouldn’t do many lease trains and invest in the building and maintenance of trains more in the U.K. It’s ridiculous that we are forty years behind France in high speed trains, Our fare system is also way too expensive, " Have you every tried to build a major infrastructure project in the UK? It's not all about investment from the government as there are so many hurdles to jump before the fist brick or railway slab can be layed. Public hearings can take years, protesters blocking everything. Anyone remember Swampy when the A12 was extended? He came back to delay works on HS2 as well. Then there are the people who just don't want money spent on infrastructure. How many people have complained about HS2 just because it does not personally benefit them. Big infrastructure projects are a no win situation whatever they are for. The Elizabeth line has been criticised by people up North even though its funded by money in London. Then even when money is spend on big projects around the country there are the people who deny its even happening because it doesn't suit their narrative. The country as a whole needs to grow up and stop making everything political. | |||
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"Has Shapps done anything at all to try and avert this strike? Will he? (More likely, he + Johnson will use this situation as another way to try and get the public angry at anybody but the government.)" It's not any government job to negotiate disputes. If the RMT and railway company cannot come to some sort of agreement, both sides should then agree to go to Acas. The fact that the RMT has so many disputes with different rail companies at the same time would suggest that the RMT has not agreed to go to Acas with any of these various rail companies. | |||
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"Has Shapps done anything at all to try and avert this strike? Will he? (More likely, he + Johnson will use this situation as another way to try and get the public angry at anybody but the government.) It's not any government job to negotiate disputes. If the RMT and railway company cannot come to some sort of agreement, both sides should then agree to go to Acas. The fact that the RMT has so many disputes with different rail companies at the same time would suggest that the RMT has not agreed to go to Acas with any of these various rail companies. " Seems like a big part of Shapps' job is avoiding this sort of issue... | |||
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"Has Shapps done anything at all to try and avert this strike? Will he? (More likely, he + Johnson will use this situation as another way to try and get the public angry at anybody but the government.)" It’s not the governments place to sort this it’s the company and the unions as it’s a privately owned company. Lynch is a Marxist who just wants to bring the government down. They will be bribing the drivers to strike and the tax payer is paying for it all. What a farce  | |||
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"Has Shapps done anything at all to try and avert this strike? Will he? (More likely, he + Johnson will use this situation as another way to try and get the public angry at anybody but the government.) It's not any government job to negotiate disputes. If the RMT and railway company cannot come to some sort of agreement, both sides should then agree to go to Acas. The fact that the RMT has so many disputes with different rail companies at the same time would suggest that the RMT has not agreed to go to Acas with any of these various rail companies. Seems like a big part of Shapps' job is avoiding this sort of issue..." Of course you could always just ignore what the correct procedure is and try to blame the government anyway. | |||
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"Has Shapps done anything at all to try and avert this strike? Will he? (More likely, he + Johnson will use this situation as another way to try and get the public angry at anybody but the government.) It's not any government job to negotiate disputes. If the RMT and railway company cannot come to some sort of agreement, both sides should then agree to go to Acas. The fact that the RMT has so many disputes with different rail companies at the same time would suggest that the RMT has not agreed to go to Acas with any of these various rail companies. Seems like a big part of Shapps' job is avoiding this sort of issue... Of course you could always just ignore what the correct procedure is and try to blame the government anyway." Workers strike over working conditions + pay. Government could get involved to help sort it out if they wanted. But they want people angry at striking workers. Just like they wanted people angry at doctors. And lawyers. And judges etc etc... | |||
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As usual the labour party sit on the fence wanting one thing but not being honest about it and thinking we are all mugs and not going to see it.
In streeting,s defence i can see why he wants to appeal to the left, he has his eye on the prize if starmer has to fall on his sword and theirs rumours the cabinet are having a whip round to bribe durham police to give him a penalty notice. | |||
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"Has Shapps done anything at all to try and avert this strike? Will he? (More likely, he + Johnson will use this situation as another way to try and get the public angry at anybody but the government.) It's not any government job to negotiate disputes. If the RMT and railway company cannot come to some sort of agreement, both sides should then agree to go to Acas. The fact that the RMT has so many disputes with different rail companies at the same time would suggest that the RMT has not agreed to go to Acas with any of these various rail companies. Seems like a big part of Shapps' job is avoiding this sort of issue... Of course you could always just ignore what the correct procedure is and try to blame the government anyway. Workers strike over working conditions + pay. Government could get involved to help sort it out if they wanted. But they want people angry at striking workers. Just like they wanted people angry at doctors. And lawyers. And judges etc etc..." Ignoring the correct procedures again to suit your narrative. Acas is the correct procedure which settles disputes and both side agree to follow what Acas deside on. The RMT is ultimately to blame for having various rail companies having their strike days around the country on the same day. They have also picked the dates which will affect the maximum people they can affect with these dates. If the industry action continues through the summer every major event will be affected because the RMT will be looking at these events and planning to strike on those days. | |||
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"We average less than one return train trip a year. It does make us wonder how much essential goods travels by rail as opposed to lorry. It’s running at maximum capacity due to the lack of track time. HS2 will free up freight capacity. Trains will never carry as much as trucks and even if you double capacity it’s still only around 10% of tonnage but a container going from say Liverpool to hull has a tortuous route due to the Victorian low bridges. If we had invested the dividends into infrastructure then maybe we wouldn’t do many lease trains and invest in the building and maintenance of trains more in the U.K. It’s ridiculous that we are forty years behind France in high speed trains, Our fare system is also way too expensive, Have you every tried to build a major infrastructure project in the UK? It's not all about investment from the government as there are so many hurdles to jump before the fist brick or railway slab can be layed. Public hearings can take years, protesters blocking everything. Anyone remember Swampy when the A12 was extended? He came back to delay works on HS2 as well. Then there are the people who just don't want money spent on infrastructure. How many people have complained about HS2 just because it does not personally benefit them. Big infrastructure projects are a no win situation whatever they are for. The Elizabeth line has been criticised by people up North even though its funded by money in London. Then even when money is spend on big projects around the country there are the people who deny its even happening because it doesn't suit their narrative. The country as a whole needs to grow up and stop making everything political." If the country took the nimby attitude there would be no ports no motorways and definitely no airports. We may as well be in Tudor times. It’s the governments job to build infrastructure despite opposition. The economy needs infrastructure and to say it’s not political isn’t right. It is, but it should be bi-partizan. It’s all party’s responsibility to aide growth through building roads etc to help businesses trade. . London has far more spent per head of tax payers money than any other regions for decades so they have justified complaints . I agree Londoners contributed more to the Elizabeth line though. | |||
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"Has Shapps done anything at all to try and avert this strike? Will he? (More likely, he + Johnson will use this situation as another way to try and get the public angry at anybody but the government.) It’s not the governments place to sort this it’s the company and the unions as it’s a privately owned company. Lynch is a Marxist who just wants to bring the government down. They will be bribing the drivers to strike and the tax payer is paying for it all. What a farce "Network rail is state owned so it is partly his responsibility. Also the government subsidise the service operators so he should be front and centre . | |||
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"Has Shapps done anything at all to try and avert this strike? Will he? (More likely, he + Johnson will use this situation as another way to try and get the public angry at anybody but the government.) It’s not the governments place to sort this it’s the company and the unions as it’s a privately owned company. Lynch is a Marxist who just wants to bring the government down. They will be bribing the drivers to strike and the tax payer is paying for it all. What a farce
Network rail is state owned so it is partly his responsibility. Also the government subsidise the service operators so he should be front and centre . "That's what the union would like, to make it about the government and it would be if the railways were nationalized but they are not. | |||
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"Has Shapps done anything at all to try and avert this strike? Will he? (More likely, he + Johnson will use this situation as another way to try and get the public angry at anybody but the government.) It's not any government job to negotiate disputes. If the RMT and railway company cannot come to some sort of agreement, both sides should then agree to go to Acas. The fact that the RMT has so many disputes with different rail companies at the same time would suggest that the RMT has not agreed to go to Acas with any of these various rail companies. Seems like a big part of Shapps' job is avoiding this sort of issue... Of course you could always just ignore what the correct procedure is and try to blame the government anyway. Workers strike over working conditions + pay. Government could get involved to help sort it out if they wanted. But they want people angry at striking workers. Just like they wanted people angry at doctors. And lawyers. And judges etc etc... Ignoring the correct procedures again to suit your narrative. Acas is the correct procedure which settles disputes and both side agree to follow what Acas deside on. The RMT is ultimately to blame for having various rail companies having their strike days around the country on the same day. They have also picked the dates which will affect the maximum people they can affect with these dates. If the industry action continues through the summer every major event will be affected because the RMT will be looking at these events and planning to strike on those days." Will you be so accusing of the barristers and the nurses when they strike? To withdraw their labour is a basic right allowed to every worker. They don’t pick on anyone when they withdraw their labour. If they just wanted publicity they could have just walked out for the whole of the jubilee weekend . The spiteful belief is fed by the Mail and express . This is a union legally fighting for its workers to stop being poorer and people keep forgetting that. If you don’t get a pay rise matching inflation you’re taking a pay cut. It’s that simple. It’s not about morals because if it was then why were dividends paid if the companies couldn’t afford the rises? Strange no government minister complains about that. Or the leasing of trains from foreign manufacturers at the expense of British jobs. Free markets eh.  | |||
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"Has Shapps done anything at all to try and avert this strike? Will he? (More likely, he + Johnson will use this situation as another way to try and get the public angry at anybody but the government.) It’s not the governments place to sort this it’s the company and the unions as it’s a privately owned company. Lynch is a Marxist who just wants to bring the government down. They will be bribing the drivers to strike and the tax payer is paying for it all. What a farce
Network rail is state owned so it is partly his responsibility. Also the government subsidise the service operators so he should be front and centre . That's what the union would like, to make it about the government and it would be if the railways were nationalized but they are not."It is about pay from the rail companies the government own or subsidise so it’s definitely in their realm. The rail companies receive huge subsidies and yet dividends are still paid. That’s signed off by your government so it’s ok to give shareholders tax payers money but not the workers. I think the government are there by design and it’s not the unions choice but the Tory party wanted this messy structure that’s now failing. How many companies have thrown their franchises back so far? Will they be giving the subsidies back too? | |||
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"Has Shapps done anything at all to try and avert this strike? Will he? (More likely, he + Johnson will use this situation as another way to try and get the public angry at anybody but the government.) Yep, people like Mr Hay are furious , bless them
It's getting hard to keep track of all the people we're meant to be furious at by now. Lawyers. doctors. Lefties. Strikers. Railworkers etc..."Immigrants The EU Wokes | |||
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"Has Shapps done anything at all to try and avert this strike? Will he? (More likely, he + Johnson will use this situation as another way to try and get the public angry at anybody but the government.) It's not any government job to negotiate disputes. If the RMT and railway company cannot come to some sort of agreement, both sides should then agree to go to Acas. The fact that the RMT has so many disputes with different rail companies at the same time would suggest that the RMT has not agreed to go to Acas with any of these various rail companies. Seems like a big part of Shapps' job is avoiding this sort of issue... Of course you could always just ignore what the correct procedure is and try to blame the government anyway. Workers strike over working conditions + pay. Government could get involved to help sort it out if they wanted. But they want people angry at striking workers. Just like they wanted people angry at doctors. And lawyers. And judges etc etc... Ignoring the correct procedures again to suit your narrative. Acas is the correct procedure which settles disputes and both side agree to follow what Acas deside on. The RMT is ultimately to blame for having various rail companies having their strike days around the country on the same day. They have also picked the dates which will affect the maximum people they can affect with these dates. If the industry action continues through the summer every major event will be affected because the RMT will be looking at these events and planning to strike on those days. Will you be so accusing of the barristers and the nurses when they strike? To withdraw their labour is a basic right allowed to every worker. They don’t pick on anyone when they withdraw their labour. If they just wanted publicity they could have just walked out for the whole of the jubilee weekend . The spiteful belief is fed by the Mail and express . This is a union legally fighting for its workers to stop being poorer and people keep forgetting that. If you don’t get a pay rise matching inflation you’re taking a pay cut. It’s that simple. It’s not about morals because if it was then why were dividends paid if the companies couldn’t afford the rises? Strange no government minister complains about that. Or the leasing of trains from foreign manufacturers at the expense of British jobs. Free markets eh. "If you choose to ignor how the RMT works that up to you. Someone said before that striking is the RMT's last option. The reality is the members involved in the dispute will not have been balloted to work to rule. One option they could of used. The members will not have been balloted to a ban on overtime. Another option they could of used. The only ballot they would of got was strike action at a date that has been chosen for them at RMT head office. It's not about blaming the RMT workers it's about how the RMT has created a major rail strike around the country at on the same days. Plus of course not sitting down with Acas as previously mentioned. | |||
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"Has Shapps done anything at all to try and avert this strike? Will he? (More likely, he + Johnson will use this situation as another way to try and get the public angry at anybody but the government.) It's not any government job to negotiate disputes. If the RMT and railway company cannot come to some sort of agreement, both sides should then agree to go to Acas. The fact that the RMT has so many disputes with different rail companies at the same time would suggest that the RMT has not agreed to go to Acas with any of these various rail companies. Seems like a big part of Shapps' job is avoiding this sort of issue... Of course you could always just ignore what the correct procedure is and try to blame the government anyway. Workers strike over working conditions + pay. Government could get involved to help sort it out if they wanted. But they want people angry at striking workers. Just like they wanted people angry at doctors. And lawyers. And judges etc etc... Ignoring the correct procedures again to suit your narrative. Acas is the correct procedure which settles disputes and both side agree to follow what Acas deside on. The RMT is ultimately to blame for having various rail companies having their strike days around the country on the same day. They have also picked the dates which will affect the maximum people they can affect with these dates. If the industry action continues through the summer every major event will be affected because the RMT will be looking at these events and planning to strike on those days. Will you be so accusing of the barristers and the nurses when they strike? To withdraw their labour is a basic right allowed to every worker. They don’t pick on anyone when they withdraw their labour. If they just wanted publicity they could have just walked out for the whole of the jubilee weekend . The spiteful belief is fed by the Mail and express . This is a union legally fighting for its workers to stop being poorer and people keep forgetting that. If you don’t get a pay rise matching inflation you’re taking a pay cut. It’s that simple. It’s not about morals because if it was then why were dividends paid if the companies couldn’t afford the rises? Strange no government minister complains about that. Or the leasing of trains from foreign manufacturers at the expense of British jobs. Free markets eh.
If you choose to ignor how the RMT works that up to you.
Someone said before that striking is the RMT's last option.
The reality is the members involved in the dispute will not have been balloted to work to rule. One option they could of used.
The members will not have been balloted to a ban on overtime. Another option they could of used.
The only ballot they would of got was strike action at a date that has been chosen for them at RMT head office.
It's not about blaming the RMT workers it's about how the RMT has created a major rail strike around the country at on the same days.
Plus of course not sitting down with Acas as previously mentioned."You do know a number of the rail companies hadn’t offered anything until this week don’t you. The union elect their leaders to make choices just as we elect the government. Look how the ballot box worked out when uniformed people were given the vote on Brexit. I’m not ignoring the RMT operations but given they’ve kept their workers closer to inflation than most unions I think they have achieved success with their methods over ten years. I didn’t see any complaints from the union members about that. You’re confusing democracy with a method of operation. I’m sure if they need ACAS they can revert. How the union plans their argument is for the union leaders not a ballot for every choice. You may not like it and I’m no fan as like you I would have preferred all parties to talk but you can’t deny they have the mandate. The government say Boris has a mandate to stay in power despite 75% of parliament having no faith in him. He was voted as leader despite how much he’s loathed. | |||
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"Has Shapps done anything at all to try and avert this strike? Will he? (More likely, he + Johnson will use this situation as another way to try and get the public angry at anybody but the government.) Yep, people like Mr Hay are furious , bless them
It's getting hard to keep track of all the people we're meant to be furious at by now. Lawyers. doctors. Lefties. Strikers. Railworkers etc...
Immigrants
The EU
Wokes
"on fire with your contributions again today. | |||
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"Expect more strikes from other sectors. If the government refuse to honour raising pay with inflation. What do they expect?? They clearly have no ideas to deal with this crisis. Interest rates will go up considerably soon to counter inflation. Most workers will be facing ruin, if this persists. What happens to the economy when workers are facing large pay cuts in a time of high inflation. Lump into that credit card debt and mortgage payments going up. This government will default to austerity, whilst we are in a recession. Its like watching a slow motion car crash. Sure they will continue wasting money by trying to continually patch things up. Rather than addressing what should have been addressed when the banks crashed the economy in 2008. People will only tolerate a certain level of inequality until they lose their rag on mass. How do you suggest this crisis is dealt with? At least try to pay with inflation as at least that will eat people's debt and same will apply to the national debt. Whilst doing this fix peoples mortgages for at least 5 years, so rates can be raised without causing mass homelessness. This would also leverage the inflation to eat the mortgage debt. Take big steps to address supply chains, start on shoring as much as possible. Restructure the banks, so their main purpose is business lending and venture capital. Not lending for buy to let. Build affordable housing owned by the government, rather than spending tens of billions on housing benefit. That would be a start, but I'm sure there would be economists with far greater understanding and ideas. Basically we need to move away from being short termist/no planning and riddled with productivity sapping renteirism. To an economy that is about increasing productivity and leveraging technology. This requires vision and strategy from government. Also clean up all the lobbying and corruption. Raising wages in line with inflation will push inflation higher and you end up in a loop with no end. A hike in interest rates, deters spending and should bring inflation down, it isn't pretty and it will hurt many. We’re buying less anyway and due to austerity there is nowhere to go. The underlying costs associated with goods are now the problem and not wages as much. It’s going to get very painful though I do agree with you there. I agree we are clearly already in recession, the inflation has killed demand anyway. Also Belgium and luxemberg still have manditory wages rises linked to CPI. We have higher inflation than both those countries. I think this disproves the wage rises will fuel runaway inflation. Its just the government playing disaster politics to drive down wages, as that is their flawed idiology. It really isn't the government, the bank of England provides the strategy. Inflation is going up because people are still spending, that is how it works, spending and borrowing money to spend, drives inflation. But don't forget this is on a global stage, oil, gas, grain etc. There is no positive outcome other than venting some anger, in associating every past government blunder on cost of living crisis we have now. It is very clear that a global market place is what we are part of and that market is under extreme pressure due to the war in Ukraine and coming out of a pandemic. The situation we have now would be exactly the same whoever was in power, the direction we go in would probably be similar for who ever is in power too. It can be really easy to mudsling and say under this government it is worse, but that is an unrealistic argument, as there is nothing to compare what this government is doing now to anything else for the last 12 years. The reality of this is going to be tough for those that can least afford it. I don't think bank of England has anything to do with setting public sector pay etc... Also no one voted for the bank of England to run the country. Should that system of independance be revised now the BOE have failed to maintain inflation at 2% since at least 2008. I don't think the situation would be the same who ever we had in power. This government makes a lot of bad decisions. It was only a week ago the chancellor lost 11billion on an interest payment mistake! Our susceptibility to the global impacts are also a product of Government ideology of never investing for a rainy day. The bank of England set interest rates and therefore will drive the strategy to bring down inflation. Let's be realistic, the money spent to keep the country afloat during the pandemic would / has spent most of our savings.... " We can be realistic about the covid measures it is what it is. But not the doubling of the national debt under Osborne. What did we get for that, all the public sector was being cut and I did not see any major infrastructure built. So I can only assume that debt was racked up to give tax cuts! The BOE will follow the Federal reserve on interest rates and it will be a disaster. Especially if the government are adamant on not keeping wages pegged to inflation. Most US mortgages are fixed for 20-30 years. So at least most US homeowners will be shielded from rate rises. Most UK mortgages are tracking base rate or 2 year fixes. People will be wiped out if rates go to just half what inflation is. In the 80's interest rates went above the inflation rate. We are fucked, so we should all be fighting not to have a pay cut. How anyone can not understand why the RMT are striking is beyond me. | |||
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"Has Shapps done anything at all to try and avert this strike? Will he? (More likely, he + Johnson will use this situation as another way to try and get the public angry at anybody but the government.) Yep, people like Mr Hay are furious , bless them
It's getting hard to keep track of all the people we're meant to be furious at by now. Lawyers. doctors. Lefties. Strikers. Railworkers etc...
Immigrants
The EU
Wokes
on fire with your contributions again today. "Thanks | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Has Shapps done anything at all to try and avert this strike? Will he? (More likely, he + Johnson will use this situation as another way to try and get the public angry at anybody but the government.) It's not any government job to negotiate disputes. If the RMT and railway company cannot come to some sort of agreement, both sides should then agree to go to Acas. The fact that the RMT has so many disputes with different rail companies at the same time would suggest that the RMT has not agreed to go to Acas with any of these various rail companies. Seems like a big part of Shapps' job is avoiding this sort of issue... Of course you could always just ignore what the correct procedure is and try to blame the government anyway. Workers strike over working conditions + pay. Government could get involved to help sort it out if they wanted. But they want people angry at striking workers. Just like they wanted people angry at doctors. And lawyers. And judges etc etc... Ignoring the correct procedures again to suit your narrative. Acas is the correct procedure which settles disputes and both side agree to follow what Acas deside on. The RMT is ultimately to blame for having various rail companies having their strike days around the country on the same day. They have also picked the dates which will affect the maximum people they can affect with these dates. If the industry action continues through the summer every major event will be affected because the RMT will be looking at these events and planning to strike on those days. Will you be so accusing of the barristers and the nurses when they strike? To withdraw their labour is a basic right allowed to every worker. They don’t pick on anyone when they withdraw their labour. If they just wanted publicity they could have just walked out for the whole of the jubilee weekend . The spiteful belief is fed by the Mail and express . This is a union legally fighting for its workers to stop being poorer and people keep forgetting that. If you don’t get a pay rise matching inflation you’re taking a pay cut. It’s that simple. It’s not about morals because if it was then why were dividends paid if the companies couldn’t afford the rises? Strange no government minister complains about that. Or the leasing of trains from foreign manufacturers at the expense of British jobs. Free markets eh.
If you choose to ignor how the RMT works that up to you.
Someone said before that striking is the RMT's last option.
The reality is the members involved in the dispute will not have been balloted to work to rule. One option they could of used.
The members will not have been balloted to a ban on overtime. Another option they could of used.
The only ballot they would of got was strike action at a date that has been chosen for them at RMT head office.
It's not about blaming the RMT workers it's about how the RMT has created a major rail strike around the country at on the same days.
Plus of course not sitting down with Acas as previously mentioned.
You do know a number of the rail companies hadn’t offered anything until this week don’t you.
The union elect their leaders to make choices just as we elect the government. Look how the ballot box worked out when uniformed people were given the vote on Brexit.
I’m not ignoring the RMT operations but given they’ve kept their workers closer to inflation than most unions I think they have achieved success with their methods over ten years. I didn’t see any complaints from the union members about that.
You’re confusing democracy with a method of operation. I’m sure if they need ACAS they can revert.
How the union plans their argument is for the union leaders not a ballot for every choice. You may not like it and I’m no fan as like you I would have preferred all parties to talk but you can’t deny they have the mandate.
The government say Boris has a mandate to stay in power despite 75% of parliament having no faith in him. He was voted as leader despite how much he’s loathed.
"I'm not against unions as they have a purpose for workers and I fully agree with that. But I do not agree with creating a major rail strike around the country which will damage the income and prospects of a lot of people. This is directly the desire of the RMT. Strikes could have been arranged on different dates so the public had alternative routes of travel in some areas. | |||
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"Has Shapps done anything at all to try and avert this strike? Will he? (More likely, he + Johnson will use this situation as another way to try and get the public angry at anybody but the government.) It's not any government job to negotiate disputes. If the RMT and railway company cannot come to some sort of agreement, both sides should then agree to go to Acas. The fact that the RMT has so many disputes with different rail companies at the same time would suggest that the RMT has not agreed to go to Acas with any of these various rail companies. Seems like a big part of Shapps' job is avoiding this sort of issue... Of course you could always just ignore what the correct procedure is and try to blame the government anyway. Workers strike over working conditions + pay. Government could get involved to help sort it out if they wanted. But they want people angry at striking workers. Just like they wanted people angry at doctors. And lawyers. And judges etc etc... Ignoring the correct procedures again to suit your narrative. Acas is the correct procedure which settles disputes and both side agree to follow what Acas deside on. The RMT is ultimately to blame for having various rail companies having their strike days around the country on the same day. They have also picked the dates which will affect the maximum people they can affect with these dates. If the industry action continues through the summer every major event will be affected because the RMT will be looking at these events and planning to strike on those days. Will you be so accusing of the barristers and the nurses when they strike? To withdraw their labour is a basic right allowed to every worker. They don’t pick on anyone when they withdraw their labour. If they just wanted publicity they could have just walked out for the whole of the jubilee weekend . The spiteful belief is fed by the Mail and express . This is a union legally fighting for its workers to stop being poorer and people keep forgetting that. If you don’t get a pay rise matching inflation you’re taking a pay cut. It’s that simple. It’s not about morals because if it was then why were dividends paid if the companies couldn’t afford the rises? Strange no government minister complains about that. Or the leasing of trains from foreign manufacturers at the expense of British jobs. Free markets eh.
If you choose to ignor how the RMT works that up to you.
Someone said before that striking is the RMT's last option.
The reality is the members involved in the dispute will not have been balloted to work to rule. One option they could of used.
The members will not have been balloted to a ban on overtime. Another option they could of used.
The only ballot they would of got was strike action at a date that has been chosen for them at RMT head office.
It's not about blaming the RMT workers it's about how the RMT has created a major rail strike around the country at on the same days.
Plus of course not sitting down with Acas as previously mentioned.
You do know a number of the rail companies hadn’t offered anything until this week don’t you.
The union elect their leaders to make choices just as we elect the government. Look how the ballot box worked out when uniformed people were given the vote on Brexit.
I’m not ignoring the RMT operations but given they’ve kept their workers closer to inflation than most unions I think they have achieved success with their methods over ten years. I didn’t see any complaints from the union members about that.
You’re confusing democracy with a method of operation. I’m sure if they need ACAS they can revert.
How the union plans their argument is for the union leaders not a ballot for every choice. You may not like it and I’m no fan as like you I would have preferred all parties to talk but you can’t deny they have the mandate.
The government say Boris has a mandate to stay in power despite 75% of parliament having no faith in him. He was voted as leader despite how much he’s loathed.
I'm not against unions as they have a purpose for workers and I fully agree with that.
But I do not agree with creating a major rail strike around the country which will damage the income and prospects of a lot of people.
This is directly the desire of the RMT.
Strikes could have been arranged on different dates so the public had alternative routes of travel in some areas. "Barristers striking will result in innocent people staying in jail , nurses will work to rule so slow down diagnosis of cancers and people will die. It’s not the desires of the unions to hurt anyone only the pocket of the rail operators. Firemen when they last went in strike cost lives . Not many I believe as they regularly came out if something was serious as they knew the army’s green goddesses weren’t up to it good for them but I believe no pay rise since 2006. I liked the idea of no ticket money being collected by the rail workers whilst keeping the service going but as sales are mostly online that won’t work. So withdrawing labour is the main tool sadly. | |||
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"Has Shapps done anything at all to try and avert this strike? Will he? (More likely, he + Johnson will use this situation as another way to try and get the public angry at anybody but the government.) It's not any government job to negotiate disputes. If the RMT and railway company cannot come to some sort of agreement, both sides should then agree to go to Acas. The fact that the RMT has so many disputes with different rail companies at the same time would suggest that the RMT has not agreed to go to Acas with any of these various rail companies. Seems like a big part of Shapps' job is avoiding this sort of issue... Of course you could always just ignore what the correct procedure is and try to blame the government anyway. Workers strike over working conditions + pay. Government could get involved to help sort it out if they wanted. But they want people angry at striking workers. Just like they wanted people angry at doctors. And lawyers. And judges etc etc... Ignoring the correct procedures again to suit your narrative. Acas is the correct procedure which settles disputes and both side agree to follow what Acas deside on. The RMT is ultimately to blame for having various rail companies having their strike days around the country on the same day. They have also picked the dates which will affect the maximum people they can affect with these dates. If the industry action continues through the summer every major event will be affected because the RMT will be looking at these events and planning to strike on those days. Will you be so accusing of the barristers and the nurses when they strike? To withdraw their labour is a basic right allowed to every worker. They don’t pick on anyone when they withdraw their labour. If they just wanted publicity they could have just walked out for the whole of the jubilee weekend . The spiteful belief is fed by the Mail and express . This is a union legally fighting for its workers to stop being poorer and people keep forgetting that. If you don’t get a pay rise matching inflation you’re taking a pay cut. It’s that simple. It’s not about morals because if it was then why were dividends paid if the companies couldn’t afford the rises? Strange no government minister complains about that. Or the leasing of trains from foreign manufacturers at the expense of British jobs. Free markets eh.
If you choose to ignor how the RMT works that up to you.
Someone said before that striking is the RMT's last option.
The reality is the members involved in the dispute will not have been balloted to work to rule. One option they could of used.
The members will not have been balloted to a ban on overtime. Another option they could of used.
The only ballot they would of got was strike action at a date that has been chosen for them at RMT head office.
It's not about blaming the RMT workers it's about how the RMT has created a major rail strike around the country at on the same days.
Plus of course not sitting down with Acas as previously mentioned.
You do know a number of the rail companies hadn’t offered anything until this week don’t you.
The union elect their leaders to make choices just as we elect the government. Look how the ballot box worked out when uniformed people were given the vote on Brexit.
I’m not ignoring the RMT operations but given they’ve kept their workers closer to inflation than most unions I think they have achieved success with their methods over ten years. I didn’t see any complaints from the union members about that.
You’re confusing democracy with a method of operation. I’m sure if they need ACAS they can revert.
How the union plans their argument is for the union leaders not a ballot for every choice. You may not like it and I’m no fan as like you I would have preferred all parties to talk but you can’t deny they have the mandate.
The government say Boris has a mandate to stay in power despite 75% of parliament having no faith in him. He was voted as leader despite how much he’s loathed.
I'm not against unions as they have a purpose for workers and I fully agree with that.
But I do not agree with creating a major rail strike around the country which will damage the income and prospects of a lot of people.
This is directly the desire of the RMT.
Strikes could have been arranged on different dates so the public had alternative routes of travel in some areas.
Barristers striking will result in innocent people staying in jail , nurses will work to rule so slow down diagnosis of cancers and people will die. It’s not the desires of the unions to hurt anyone only the pocket of the rail operators.
Firemen when they last went in strike cost lives . Not many I believe as they regularly came out if something was serious as they knew the army’s green goddesses weren’t up to it good for them but I believe no pay rise since 2006.
I liked the idea of no ticket money being collected by the rail workers whilst keeping the service going but as sales are mostly online that won’t work.
So withdrawing labour is the main tool sadly.
"No argument with withdrawing labour if that is the last option. But as I said before the members would not have been given any of the other options as a first step in industrial action. Also as already stated if going on strike was the last option there is no reason why members of different rail operators could has withdrawn labour on different day to less impact the general public. The major rail strike is purely down to the design of the RMT no one else. | |||
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"The biggest rail strikes in three decades are due to start on Monday night, with trains cancelled across geeat britain for much of the week. The first of three 24 hour walkouts by 40,000 rmt members, including signallers, maintenance and train staff, will start just after midnight on tuesday morning, with only one in five trains running on strike days and halting services altogether in much of northern and south west england, wales and Scotland. What is the strike about do you think, is it cos of wages and wasnt there already a strike about a week ago or so and what did they achieve on that one?" I personally think that this strike will be the first of many and a trigger for a summer (and following winter) of discontent. Many public sector employees had their pay under the cosh from 2010 until 2020 and now they be are going to be asked to accept below inflation pay awards again because of the current crisis. All the while the number of billionaires in the U.K. has increased and the wealth gap has also increased. It stinks. The people are waking up. | |||
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A train driver’s starting salary is £48k, whereas a nurse is only £22k.
Sympathy for train drivers? No!
Lazy ****s | |||
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"Labour is supporting the strike. What a surprise
A train driver’s starting salary is £48k, whereas a nurse is only £22k.
Sympathy for train drivers? No!
Lazy ****s "They should increase nurses starting salaries then | |||
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"Labour is supporting the strike. What a surprise
A train driver’s starting salary is £48k, whereas a nurse is only £22k.
Sympathy for train drivers? No!
Lazy ****s
They should increase nurses starting salaries then " | |||
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"Labour is supporting the strike. What a surprise
A train driver’s starting salary is £48k, whereas a nurse is only £22k.
Sympathy for train drivers? No!
Lazy ****s "So would you support Nurse’s striking? Sounds like they need a significant pay rise. This Government and it’s client News outlets are force feeding us the narrative of division - and in fact have been doing the same thing for years. Rail workers salaries have kept up with inflation because the RMT is a strong union. They are not prepared to accept a below inflation salary increase and a reduction in standards. Most other people have seen their wages fall well below inflation. | |||
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"It looks like we are dealing with some of the most selfish people that exist in society. If they think that they are underpaid they should seek a job elsewhere. As things stand train drivers are vastly overpaid. We should be looking to cut their pay , not increase it. There is no valid reason to pay a train driver £60, 000. The union boss lives in a world far removed from reality. He earns £120000 per annum and owns a house worth circ £1 million . Let hope the government win this one and repeat what happened to Arthur Scargill. Their demands are an insult to every working class person. Let's hope the government wins and automation kicks in ASAP. " Yes, they earn alot dont they and I think that a tube driver earns the most, everyone should work as a train driver | |||
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"Labour is supporting the strike. What a surprise
A train driver’s starting salary is £48k, whereas a nurse is only £22k.
Sympathy for train drivers? No!
Lazy ****s "Look at their pay ten years ago
Your Tory mates have not allowed the nurses a proper pay increases in that time so they have had nothing but cuts. Why aren’t you calling out the Tory government for cutting nurses pay if it bothers you so much? | |||
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"so are you saying that rail fares should rise by 11% ? Of course people have the right to strike but what about the people who travel by train shouldn't they all gat 11% too to make up for their extra costs? " Season tickets and walk on fares go up in January by the October inflation rate + 1% … it’s a set formula! The issue at the moment is that the government have offered a 2% pay rise.. + 1% in efficiency savings to people who have not had a pay rise in 3 years…. At a time inflation is 9% and rising I don’t like the inconvenience.. but I do understand the sentiment | |||
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"Labour is supporting the strike. What a surprise
A train driver’s starting salary is £48k, whereas a nurse is only £22k.
Sympathy for train drivers? No!
Lazy ****s "The lowest salary for a nurse is actually £25665. That may increase by 3% this year if the proposed pay increase is implemented. | |||
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"Labour is supporting the strike. What a surprise
A train driver’s starting salary is £48k, whereas a nurse is only £22k.
Sympathy for train drivers? No!
Lazy ****s "Once again your wrong.. Plus attempting to compare a starting salary of one role and another which is highly skilled is facile.. Whatever happened to Boris and the aim of not going back to a low wage economy..? To have a high skilled workforce? | |||
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"Labour is supporting the strike. What a surprise
A train driver’s starting salary is £48k, whereas a nurse is only £22k.
Sympathy for train drivers? No!
Lazy ****s "That’s typical lazy hot take It’s not the train drivers who are on strike.. they have their own union.. ASLEF The RMT represents the people at the poorer end… | |||
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"Labour is supporting the strike. What a surprise
A train driver’s starting salary is £48k, whereas a nurse is only £22k.
Sympathy for train drivers? No!
Lazy ****s
That’s typical lazy hot take
It’s not the train drivers who are on strike.. they have their own union.. ASLEF
The RMT represents the people at the poorer end… "i] Drivers at Greater Anglia will strike between 00:01 and 23:59 Thursday 23 June 2022. [ii] Drivers at Hull Trains will strike between 00:01 and 23:59 on Sunday 26 June. [iii] And tram drivers in south London will strike for a fair pay deal from 00:01 on Tuesday 28 June until 23:59 on Wednesday 29 June and from 00:01 on Wednesday 13 July until 23:59 on Thursday 14 July. What were you saying ?  | |||
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"Labour is supporting the strike. What a surprise
A train driver’s starting salary is £48k, whereas a nurse is only £22k.
Sympathy for train drivers? No!
Lazy ****s "If the train drivers are on that money then fair play to them, the amount of training they have to go through to become one is immense, I couldn't cope with some jumping in front of me to kill themselves, And this goes on everyday, No thanks, Also I agree the nurse's should get paid a lot more than they are, Definitely more than teachers at least, The amount of holiday they get, I'm sure the nurse's would love that | |||
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"Labour is supporting the strike. What a surprise
A train driver’s starting salary is £48k, whereas a nurse is only £22k.
Sympathy for train drivers? No!
Lazy ****s
That’s typical lazy hot take
It’s not the train drivers who are on strike.. they have their own union.. ASLEF
The RMT represents the people at the poorer end…
i] Drivers at Greater Anglia will strike between 00:01 and 23:59 Thursday 23 June 2022.
[ii] Drivers at Hull Trains will strike between 00:01 and 23:59 on Sunday 26 June.
[iii] And tram drivers in south London will strike for a fair pay deal from 00:01 on Tuesday 28 June until 23:59 on Wednesday 29 June and from 00:01 on Wednesday 13 July until 23:59 on Thursday 14 July.
What were you saying ?
"So you talked about 2 of the companies out of the 14 striking today… and the majority of drivers at those companies are members of ASLEF as opposed to RMT… but you keep writing what you think will points score!!!  | |||
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"Labour is supporting the strike. What a surprise
A train driver’s starting salary is £48k, whereas a nurse is only £22k.
Sympathy for train drivers? No!
Lazy ****s
That’s typical lazy hot take
It’s not the train drivers who are on strike.. they have their own union.. ASLEF
The RMT represents the people at the poorer end…
i] Drivers at Greater Anglia will strike between 00:01 and 23:59 Thursday 23 June 2022.
[ii] Drivers at Hull Trains will strike between 00:01 and 23:59 on Sunday 26 June.
[iii] And tram drivers in south London will strike for a fair pay deal from 00:01 on Tuesday 28 June until 23:59 on Wednesday 29 June and from 00:01 on Wednesday 13 July until 23:59 on Thursday 14 July.
What were you saying ?
So you talked about 2 of the companies out of the 14 striking today… and the majority of drivers at those companies are members of ASLEF as opposed to RMT… but you keep writing what you think will points score!!! "No just pointing out that this is just the start also once the signalmen stop so does everything else | |||
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"Labour is supporting the strike. What a surprise
A train driver’s starting salary is £48k, whereas a nurse is only £22k.
Sympathy for train drivers? No!
Lazy ****s
That’s typical lazy hot take
It’s not the train drivers who are on strike.. they have their own union.. ASLEF
The RMT represents the people at the poorer end…
i] Drivers at Greater Anglia will strike between 00:01 and 23:59 Thursday 23 June 2022.
[ii] Drivers at Hull Trains will strike between 00:01 and 23:59 on Sunday 26 June.
[iii] And tram drivers in south London will strike for a fair pay deal from 00:01 on Tuesday 28 June until 23:59 on Wednesday 29 June and from 00:01 on Wednesday 13 July until 23:59 on Thursday 14 July.
What were you saying ?
So you talked about 2 of the companies out of the 14 striking today… and the majority of drivers at those companies are members of ASLEF as opposed to RMT… but you keep writing what you think will points score!!!
No just pointing out that this is just the start also once the signalmen stop so does everything else "Well then if they offered more that 2% when even the Bank of England concedes in there latest bank meetings minutes suggest that inflation is unlikely to get close to the 2% mark for the next 24 months you might see why it may be considered to be a slap in the face I am no unionists… but 7% in the time of 11% inflation seems more reasonable than 2% does | |||
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"The reality is the members involved in the dispute will not have been balloted to work to rule. One option they could of used. former rail worker and RMT member we would not need to be balloted to work to rule as it is carrying our your contract hours and conditions .we would just be requested to work to rule by the local union rep . i have had to do this once in my entire time 28 years on the railways and that was a local dispute over signalmans meal break relief being withdrawn by management to cut cost . we worked to rule no overtime no restday working no extra sundayworking no acting up to cover supervisory roles. we worked to rule for three weeks before they relented as they were struggling to cover shifts after three weeks its cost me and my collegues a substantial hit to our wages but was the correct fight to take up as it was a step to far . " RMT members were balloted for both action short of strike (working to rule) and strike action and voted resoundingly for both! | |||
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"The reality is the members involved in the dispute will not have been balloted to work to rule. One option they could of used. former rail worker and RMT member we would not need to be balloted to work to rule as it is carrying our your contract hours and conditions .we would just be requested to work to rule by the local union rep . i have had to do this once in my entire time 28 years on the railways and that was a local dispute over signalmans meal break relief being withdrawn by management to cut cost . we worked to rule no overtime no restday working no extra sundayworking no acting up to cover supervisory roles. we worked to rule for three weeks before they relented as they were struggling to cover shifts after three weeks its cost me and my collegues a substantial hit to our wages but was the correct fight to take up as it was a step to far . RMT members were balloted for both action short of strike (working to rule) and strike action and voted resoundingly for both!" Then the whole membership is complicit | |||
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"The reality is the members involved in the dispute will not have been balloted to work to rule. One option they could of used. former rail worker and RMT member we would not need to be balloted to work to rule as it is carrying our your contract hours and conditions .we would just be requested to work to rule by the local union rep . i have had to do this once in my entire time 28 years on the railways and that was a local dispute over signalmans meal break relief being withdrawn by management to cut cost . we worked to rule no overtime no restday working no extra sundayworking no acting up to cover supervisory roles. we worked to rule for three weeks before they relented as they were struggling to cover shifts after three weeks its cost me and my collegues a substantial hit to our wages but was the correct fight to take up as it was a step to far . RMT members were balloted for both action short of strike (working to rule) and strike action and voted resoundingly for both! Then the whole membership is complicit "Democracy | |||
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"The biggest rail strikes in three decades are due to start on Monday night, with trains cancelled across geeat britain for much of the week. The first of three 24 hour walkouts by 40,000 rmt members, including signallers, maintenance and train staff, will start just after midnight on tuesday morning, with only one in five trains running on strike days and halting services altogether in much of northern and south west england, wales and Scotland. What is the strike about do you think, is it cos of wages and wasnt there already a strike about a week ago or so and what did they achieve on that one?" Significantly below inflation pay rises in return for unspecified "modern working practices" and "increased efficiencies". Apparently staff need to "make up for" the COVID subsidies that were provided by the Government in some way yet the Government says that it's none of their business. Not completely unreasonable as far as I can see. | |||
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"If inflation is to hit 11% later this year and they want an increase to reflect it, then over the next few years when inflation is said to come back into line they'll be well very well paid workers. There's two sides - it's great to have so many in your corner unionised. The strike will add to cost pressures of small businesses that are needing people to spend, adding to inflation. The difference between Rail and teachers, police, fire, nhs (as I understand) is they strike out of time or leave skeleton staff on so the whole system doesn't fail. " I'm not sure that you understand how inflation works. If inflation rises by 10% then it costs roughly 10% more to live. If inflation "falls" to 3% next year it adds to this year's increase. Only deflation of -11% would reduced the cost of things. The Police and fire service are not allowed to strike. They can only work to rule, which means that the system grinds to a standstill. That tells you about staffing levels. The NHS tends to only work to rule in protest because the consequences are so serious. As a result they are exploited. Teachers can strike and have done. There have been real terms pay cuts for the public sector and a lot of private sector low wage jobs for over a decade and people wonder why they are demotivated. Not so long ago, rising pay was being hailed as a UK success by this same government who are now demanding restraint. In the meantime they, apparently want unrestricted director and non executive directors pay. Hmmm | |||
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"Well didn't Boris promise us a high wage economy..?" Yep, good point, | |||
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"Labour is supporting the strike. What a surprise
A train driver’s starting salary is £48k, whereas a nurse is only £22k.
Sympathy for train drivers? No!
Lazy ****s "Starting salary of a train driver is £30k. Average £48k. Average nurse's salary is £33k. Far too low. That doesn't mean that a train driver's salary is too high, does it? | |||
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"The reality is the members involved in the dispute will not have been balloted to work to rule. One option they could of used. former rail worker and RMT member we would not need to be balloted to work to rule as it is carrying our your contract hours and conditions .we would just be requested to work to rule by the local union rep . i have had to do this once in my entire time 28 years on the railways and that was a local dispute over signalmans meal break relief being withdrawn by management to cut cost . we worked to rule no overtime no restday working no extra sundayworking no acting up to cover supervisory roles. we worked to rule for three weeks before they relented as they were struggling to cover shifts after three weeks its cost me and my collegues a substantial hit to our wages but was the correct fight to take up as it was a step to far . " Public server Management love to take a piss at a great height on other employers. | |||
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"Has Shapps done anything at all to try and avert this strike? Will he? (More likely, he + Johnson will use this situation as another way to try and get the public angry at anybody but the government.) It's not any government job to negotiate disputes. If the RMT and railway company cannot come to some sort of agreement, both sides should then agree to go to Acas. The fact that the RMT has so many disputes with different rail companies at the same time would suggest that the RMT has not agreed to go to Acas with any of these various rail companies. Seems like a big part of Shapps' job is avoiding this sort of issue... Of course you could always just ignore what the correct procedure is and try to blame the government anyway. Workers strike over working conditions + pay. Government could get involved to help sort it out if they wanted. But they want people angry at striking workers. Just like they wanted people angry at doctors. And lawyers. And judges etc etc... Ignoring the correct procedures again to suit your narrative. Acas is the correct procedure which settles disputes and both side agree to follow what Acas deside on. The RMT is ultimately to blame for having various rail companies having their strike days around the country on the same day. They have also picked the dates which will affect the maximum people they can affect with these dates. If the industry action continues through the summer every major event will be affected because the RMT will be looking at these events and planning to strike on those days. Will you be so accusing of the barristers and the nurses when they strike? To withdraw their labour is a basic right allowed to every worker. They don’t pick on anyone when they withdraw their labour. If they just wanted publicity they could have just walked out for the whole of the jubilee weekend . The spiteful belief is fed by the Mail and express . This is a union legally fighting for its workers to stop being poorer and people keep forgetting that. If you don’t get a pay rise matching inflation you’re taking a pay cut. It’s that simple. It’s not about morals because if it was then why were dividends paid if the companies couldn’t afford the rises? Strange no government minister complains about that. Or the leasing of trains from foreign manufacturers at the expense of British jobs. Free markets eh.
If you choose to ignor how the RMT works that up to you.
Someone said before that striking is the RMT's last option.
The reality is the members involved in the dispute will not have been balloted to work to rule. One option they could of used.
The members will not have been balloted to a ban on overtime. Another option they could of used.
The only ballot they would of got was strike action at a date that has been chosen for them at RMT head office.
It's not about blaming the RMT workers it's about how the RMT has created a major rail strike around the country at on the same days.
Plus of course not sitting down with Acas as previously mentioned.
You do know a number of the rail companies hadn’t offered anything until this week don’t you.
The union elect their leaders to make choices just as we elect the government. Look how the ballot box worked out when uniformed people were given the vote on Brexit.
I’m not ignoring the RMT operations but given they’ve kept their workers closer to inflation than most unions I think they have achieved success with their methods over ten years. I didn’t see any complaints from the union members about that.
You’re confusing democracy with a method of operation. I’m sure if they need ACAS they can revert.
How the union plans their argument is for the union leaders not a ballot for every choice. You may not like it and I’m no fan as like you I would have preferred all parties to talk but you can’t deny they have the mandate.
The government say Boris has a mandate to stay in power despite 75% of parliament having no faith in him. He was voted as leader despite how much he’s loathed.
I'm not against unions as they have a purpose for workers and I fully agree with that.
But I do not agree with creating a major rail strike around the country which will damage the income and prospects of a lot of people.
This is directly the desire of the RMT.
Strikes could have been arranged on different dates so the public had alternative routes of travel in some areas.
Barristers striking will result in innocent people staying in jail , nurses will work to rule so slow down diagnosis of cancers and people will die. It’s not the desires of the unions to hurt anyone only the pocket of the rail operators.
Firemen when they last went in strike cost lives . Not many I believe as they regularly came out if something was serious as they knew the army’s green goddesses weren’t up to it good for them but I believe no pay rise since 2006.
I liked the idea of no ticket money being collected by the rail workers whilst keeping the service going but as sales are mostly online that won’t work.
So withdrawing labour is the main tool sadly.
No argument with withdrawing labour if that is the last option. But as I said before the members would not have been given any of the other options as a first step in industrial action.
Also as already stated if going on strike was the last option there is no reason why members of different rail operators could has withdrawn labour on different day to less impact the general public.
The major rail strike is purely down to the design of the RMT no one else."As a member of RMT I can confirm we were given all of the above options...we chose by majority to strike as previous talks were ignored and sometimes never even attended by the Toc's... This strike has nothing to do with drivers except for the 5% who are with RMT...the drivers union is ASLEF who are not striking... This is re lower paid grades of the railways...and more to do with job security than the payrise...yes that's included but not the only factor...the government want to take over the railways again and cut 70% of the workforce and run driver only or driverless trains...Great in theory but if there is ever an incident on board, who will sort the paying passengers out? Start emergency evacuations safely?? It's not just about selling tickets as most people think...that person/ persons career starts through 20+ weeks of safety training and ensuring the passengers are kept safe...constant recapping to ensure they stay aware and safe...unsocial hours etc.. If you don't stand up to say your piece why have unions in first place? | |||
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"Think it would be better to go through mandatory arbitration before a strike. Think there was a body called ACAS or something like that. If there's a serious incident the likelihood is the staff members/ drivers will be just as injured as the general public. How many of those going on strike buy their tickets for events, travel etc online. How many use online banking or shopping. It's called progress! Why should they be immune? Sure withdraw your labour, but to be honest I have no sympathy for them. No one likes being held to ransom. " and what a waste of time going to ACAS would be on the radio last night both the lead negotiator for the rail delivery group (tocs) and the deputy leader of the rmt stated that during talks the rmt had made concessions to try and broker a deal when pressed by the interviewer the delivery group negotiator could not and would not make that extra effort to get the deal over the line as thier hands were tied .one wonders who is tying thier hands wouldnt be grant i cant intervein snapps would it .have said it before this whole confrontation is a set up to bring the rmt to heal as the last treuly strong trades union break them and the other unions will be to cowed to follow the torys have long memories of unions that stand up to them and win and will see this as a chance to get revenge | |||
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"Think it would be better to go through mandatory arbitration before a strike. Think there was a body called ACAS or something like that. If there's a serious incident the likelihood is the staff members/ drivers will be just as injured as the general public. How many of those going on strike buy their tickets for events, travel etc online. How many use online banking or shopping. It's called progress! Why should they be immune? Sure withdraw your labour, but to be honest I have no sympathy for them. No one likes being held to ransom. and what a waste of time going to ACAS would be on the radio last night both the lead negotiator for the rail delivery group (tocs) and the deputy leader of the rmt stated that during talks the rmt had made concessions to try and broker a deal when pressed by the interviewer the delivery group negotiator could not and would not make that extra effort to get the deal over the line as thier hands were tied .one wonders who is tying thier hands wouldnt be grant i cant intervein snapps would it .have said it before this whole confrontation is a set up to bring the rmt to heal as the last treuly strong trades union break them and the other unions will be to cowed to follow the torys have long memories of unions that stand up to them and win and will see this as a chance to get revenge " And a union that seems intent on staying in the 70s with work practices do out of date that if it were any other business it would of failed years ago. They seems a bit like the miners in that they want to take on a government with a large majority and public opinion firmly against them Ther may be a bit of pain but ultimately for the railways to survive the entire working practices of the employees and management need to be dragged into the 21st century. | |||
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"Think it would be better to go through mandatory arbitration before a strike. Think there was a body called ACAS or something like that. If there's a serious incident the likelihood is the staff members/ drivers will be just as injured as the general public. How many of those going on strike buy their tickets for events, travel etc online. How many use online banking or shopping. It's called progress! Why should they be immune? Sure withdraw your labour, but to be honest I have no sympathy for them. No one likes being held to ransom. and what a waste of time going to ACAS would be on the radio last night both the lead negotiator for the rail delivery group (tocs) and the deputy leader of the rmt stated that during talks the rmt had made concessions to try and broker a deal when pressed by the interviewer the delivery group negotiator could not and would not make that extra effort to get the deal over the line as thier hands were tied .one wonders who is tying thier hands wouldnt be grant i cant intervein snapps would it .have said it before this whole confrontation is a set up to bring the rmt to heal as the last treuly strong trades union break them and the other unions will be to cowed to follow the torys have long memories of unions that stand up to them and win and will see this as a chance to get revenge And a union that seems intent on staying in the 70s with work practices do out of date that if it were any other business it would of failed years ago. They seems a bit like the miners in that they want to take on a government with a large majority and public opinion firmly against them Ther may be a bit of pain but ultimately for the railways to survive the entire working practices of the employees and management need to be dragged into the 21st century. " Exactly for what reason are they rejecting the use of drones to inspect railway lines? (its common practice in europe) and will save lives.Thats just one example. | |||
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"Think it would be better to go through mandatory arbitration before a strike. Think there was a body called ACAS or something like that. If there's a serious incident the likelihood is the staff members/ drivers will be just as injured as the general public. How many of those going on strike buy their tickets for events, travel etc online. How many use online banking or shopping. It's called progress! Why should they be immune? Sure withdraw your labour, but to be honest I have no sympathy for them. No one likes being held to ransom. and what a waste of time going to ACAS would be on the radio last night both the lead negotiator for the rail delivery group (tocs) and the deputy leader of the rmt stated that during talks the rmt had made concessions to try and broker a deal when pressed by the interviewer the delivery group negotiator could not and would not make that extra effort to get the deal over the line as thier hands were tied .one wonders who is tying thier hands wouldnt be grant i cant intervein snapps would it .have said it before this whole confrontation is a set up to bring the rmt to heal as the last treuly strong trades union break them and the other unions will be to cowed to follow the torys have long memories of unions that stand up to them and win and will see this as a chance to get revenge And a union that seems intent on staying in the 70s with work practices do out of date that if it were any other business it would of failed years ago. They seems a bit like the miners in that they want to take on a government with a large majority and public opinion firmly against them Ther may be a bit of pain but ultimately for the railways to survive the entire working practices of the employees and management need to be dragged into the 21st century. Exactly for what reason are they rejecting the use of drones to inspect railway lines? (its common practice in europe) and will save lives.Thats just one example." I agree in principal. I think it was the way they planned to implement and didn’t discuss. Natural redundancy for the older generations and with 50k staff that’s got to be doable. I don’t agree with no guards at all on every train from personal experience. Too dangerous. I’d rather a guard than a driver. The miners were set up by Thatcher and Tebbitt and Scargill stupidly went for the bait. The miners were proved correct in their fears though . The mines were closed and cheaper imports did replace U.K. coal. Great for shareholders but not so good for U.K. workers. | |||
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"Think it would be better to go through mandatory arbitration before a strike. Think there was a body called ACAS or something like that. If there's a serious incident the likelihood is the staff members/ drivers will be just as injured as the general public. How many of those going on strike buy their tickets for events, travel etc online. How many use online banking or shopping. It's called progress! Why should they be immune? Sure withdraw your labour, but to be honest I have no sympathy for them. No one likes being held to ransom. and what a waste of time going to ACAS would be on the radio last night both the lead negotiator for the rail delivery group (tocs) and the deputy leader of the rmt stated that during talks the rmt had made concessions to try and broker a deal when pressed by the interviewer the delivery group negotiator could not and would not make that extra effort to get the deal over the line as thier hands were tied .one wonders who is tying thier hands wouldnt be grant i cant intervein snapps would it .have said it before this whole confrontation is a set up to bring the rmt to heal as the last treuly strong trades union break them and the other unions will be to cowed to follow the torys have long memories of unions that stand up to them and win and will see this as a chance to get revenge And a union that seems intent on staying in the 70s with work practices do out of date that if it were any other business it would of failed years ago. They seems a bit like the miners in that they want to take on a government with a large majority and public opinion firmly against them Ther may be a bit of pain but ultimately for the railways to survive the entire working practices of the employees and management need to be dragged into the 21st century. Exactly for what reason are they rejecting the use of drones to inspect railway lines? (its common practice in europe) and will save lives.Thats just one example. I agree in principal. I think it was the way they planned to implement and didn’t discuss. Natural redundancy for the older generations and with 50k staff that’s got to be doable. I don’t agree with no guards at all on every train from personal experience. Too dangerous. I’d rather a guard than a driver. The miners were set up by Thatcher and Tebbitt and Scargill stupidly went for the bait. The miners were proved correct in their fears though . The mines were closed and cheaper imports did replace U.K. coal. Great for shareholders but not so good for U.K. workers. " People are entitled to think what they like but personally i find it laughable that people think the tories are picking a fight for the sake of it. | |||
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"Think it would be better to go through mandatory arbitration before a strike. Think there was a body called ACAS or something like that. If there's a serious incident the likelihood is the staff members/ drivers will be just as injured as the general public. How many of those going on strike buy their tickets for events, travel etc online. How many use online banking or shopping. It's called progress! Why should they be immune? Sure withdraw your labour, but to be honest I have no sympathy for them. No one likes being held to ransom. and what a waste of time going to ACAS would be on the radio last night both the lead negotiator for the rail delivery group (tocs) and the deputy leader of the rmt stated that during talks the rmt had made concessions to try and broker a deal when pressed by the interviewer the delivery group negotiator could not and would not make that extra effort to get the deal over the line as thier hands were tied .one wonders who is tying thier hands wouldnt be grant i cant intervein snapps would it .have said it before this whole confrontation is a set up to bring the rmt to heal as the last treuly strong trades union break them and the other unions will be to cowed to follow the torys have long memories of unions that stand up to them and win and will see this as a chance to get revenge And a union that seems intent on staying in the 70s with work practices do out of date that if it were any other business it would of failed years ago. They seems a bit like the miners in that they want to take on a government with a large majority and public opinion firmly against them Ther may be a bit of pain but ultimately for the railways to survive the entire working practices of the employees and management need to be dragged into the 21st century. Exactly for what reason are they rejecting the use of drones to inspect railway lines? (its common practice in europe) and will save lives.Thats just one example. I agree in principal. I think it was the way they planned to implement and didn’t discuss. Natural redundancy for the older generations and with 50k staff that’s got to be doable. I don’t agree with no guards at all on every train from personal experience. Too dangerous. I’d rather a guard than a driver. The miners were set up by Thatcher and Tebbitt and Scargill stupidly went for the bait. The miners were proved correct in their fears though . The mines were closed and cheaper imports did replace U.K. coal. Great for shareholders but not so good for U.K. workers. People are entitled to think what they like but personally i find it laughable that people think the tories are picking a fight for the sake of it." I don’t think they saw it coming but Shapps is lying about no involvement . The contracts were shown for the rail companies yesterday and they include no agreements without written consent of the Transport secretary. So it’s bullshit to say he isn’t pulling strings . The rail companies defer to Shapps by law. I think Starmer is right to stay out of it as this is all on the government not labour. Labour MPs walking on the picket lines are playing into the Tory hands of trying to make it a political fight rather than what it is which is about pay and conditions . More fool them. Even Lynch said he doesn’t care whether Starmer supports him or not as it’s about his workers not the Labour Party. Lynch is no mug . | |||
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"Think it would be better to go through mandatory arbitration before a strike. Think there was a body called ACAS or something like that. If there's a serious incident the likelihood is the staff members/ drivers will be just as injured as the general public. How many of those going on strike buy their tickets for events, travel etc online. How many use online banking or shopping. It's called progress! Why should they be immune? Sure withdraw your labour, but to be honest I have no sympathy for them. No one likes being held to ransom. and what a waste of time going to ACAS would be on the radio last night both the lead negotiator for the rail delivery group (tocs) and the deputy leader of the rmt stated that during talks the rmt had made concessions to try and broker a deal when pressed by the interviewer the delivery group negotiator could not and would not make that extra effort to get the deal over the line as thier hands were tied .one wonders who is tying thier hands wouldnt be grant i cant intervein snapps would it .have said it before this whole confrontation is a set up to bring the rmt to heal as the last treuly strong trades union break them and the other unions will be to cowed to follow the torys have long memories of unions that stand up to them and win and will see this as a chance to get revenge And a union that seems intent on staying in the 70s with work practices do out of date that if it were any other business it would of failed years ago. They seems a bit like the miners in that they want to take on a government with a large majority and public opinion firmly against them Ther may be a bit of pain but ultimately for the railways to survive the entire working practices of the employees and management need to be dragged into the 21st century. Exactly for what reason are they rejecting the use of drones to inspect railway lines? (its common practice in europe) and will save lives.Thats just one example. I agree in principal. I think it was the way they planned to implement and didn’t discuss. Natural redundancy for the older generations and with 50k staff that’s got to be doable. I don’t agree with no guards at all on every train from personal experience. Too dangerous. I’d rather a guard than a driver. The miners were set up by Thatcher and Tebbitt and Scargill stupidly went for the bait. The miners were proved correct in their fears though . The mines were closed and cheaper imports did replace U.K. coal. Great for shareholders but not so good for U.K. workers. People are entitled to think what they like but personally i find it laughable that people think the tories are picking a fight for the sake of it. I don’t think they saw it coming but Shapps is lying about no involvement . The contracts were shown for the rail companies yesterday and they include no agreements without written consent of the Transport secretary. So it’s bullshit to say he isn’t pulling strings . The rail companies defer to Shapps by law. I think Starmer is right to stay out of it as this is all on the government not labour. Labour MPs walking on the picket lines are playing into the Tory hands of trying to make it a political fight rather than what it is which is about pay and conditions . More fool them. Even Lynch said he doesn’t care whether Starmer supports him or not as it’s about his workers not the Labour Party. Lynch is no mug . " No Lynch he sees himself as the next scargill and wants to bring the government down where he couldn't. He isnt bothered if he ends up like him , scargill started with a big union and a small house and ended up with a big house and small union. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Think it would be better to go through mandatory arbitration before a strike. Think there was a body called ACAS or something like that. If there's a serious incident the likelihood is the staff members/ drivers will be just as injured as the general public. How many of those going on strike buy their tickets for events, travel etc online. How many use online banking or shopping. It's called progress! Why should they be immune? Sure withdraw your labour, but to be honest I have no sympathy for them. No one likes being held to ransom. and what a waste of time going to ACAS would be on the radio last night both the lead negotiator for the rail delivery group (tocs) and the deputy leader of the rmt stated that during talks the rmt had made concessions to try and broker a deal when pressed by the interviewer the delivery group negotiator could not and would not make that extra effort to get the deal over the line as thier hands were tied .one wonders who is tying thier hands wouldnt be grant i cant intervein snapps would it .have said it before this whole confrontation is a set up to bring the rmt to heal as the last treuly strong trades union break them and the other unions will be to cowed to follow the torys have long memories of unions that stand up to them and win and will see this as a chance to get revenge And a union that seems intent on staying in the 70s with work practices do out of date that if it were any other business it would of failed years ago. They seems a bit like the miners in that they want to take on a government with a large majority and public opinion firmly against them Ther may be a bit of pain but ultimately for the railways to survive the entire working practices of the employees and management need to be dragged into the 21st century. Exactly for what reason are they rejecting the use of drones to inspect railway lines? (its common practice in europe) and will save lives.Thats just one example. I agree in principal. I think it was the way they planned to implement and didn’t discuss. Natural redundancy for the older generations and with 50k staff that’s got to be doable. I don’t agree with no guards at all on every train from personal experience. Too dangerous. I’d rather a guard than a driver. The miners were set up by Thatcher and Tebbitt and Scargill stupidly went for the bait. The miners were proved correct in their fears though . The mines were closed and cheaper imports did replace U.K. coal. Great for shareholders but not so good for U.K. workers. People are entitled to think what they like but personally i find it laughable that people think the tories are picking a fight for the sake of it. I don’t think they saw it coming but Shapps is lying about no involvement . The contracts were shown for the rail companies yesterday and they include no agreements without written consent of the Transport secretary. So it’s bullshit to say he isn’t pulling strings . The rail companies defer to Shapps by law. I think Starmer is right to stay out of it as this is all on the government not labour. Labour MPs walking on the picket lines are playing into the Tory hands of trying to make it a political fight rather than what it is which is about pay and conditions . More fool them. Even Lynch said he doesn’t care whether Starmer supports him or not as it’s about his workers not the Labour Party. Lynch is no mug . " No Lynch he sees himself as the next scargill and wants to bring the government down where he couldn't. He isnt bothered if he ends up like him , scargill started with a big union and a small house and ended up with a big house and small union. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Think it would be better to go through mandatory arbitration before a strike. Think there was a body called ACAS or something like that. If there's a serious incident the likelihood is the staff members/ drivers will be just as injured as the general public. How many of those going on strike buy their tickets for events, travel etc online. How many use online banking or shopping. It's called progress! Why should they be immune? Sure withdraw your labour, but to be honest I have no sympathy for them. No one likes being held to ransom. and what a waste of time going to ACAS would be on the radio last night both the lead negotiator for the rail delivery group (tocs) and the deputy leader of the rmt stated that during talks the rmt had made concessions to try and broker a deal when pressed by the interviewer the delivery group negotiator could not and would not make that extra effort to get the deal over the line as thier hands were tied .one wonders who is tying thier hands wouldnt be grant i cant intervein snapps would it .have said it before this whole confrontation is a set up to bring the rmt to heal as the last treuly strong trades union break them and the other unions will be to cowed to follow the torys have long memories of unions that stand up to them and win and will see this as a chance to get revenge And a union that seems intent on staying in the 70s with work practices do out of date that if it were any other business it would of failed years ago. They seems a bit like the miners in that they want to take on a government with a large majority and public opinion firmly against them Ther may be a bit of pain but ultimately for the railways to survive the entire working practices of the employees and management need to be dragged into the 21st century. Exactly for what reason are they rejecting the use of drones to inspect railway lines? (its common practice in europe) and will save lives.Thats just one example. I agree in principal. I think it was the way they planned to implement and didn’t discuss. Natural redundancy for the older generations and with 50k staff that’s got to be doable. I don’t agree with no guards at all on every train from personal experience. Too dangerous. I’d rather a guard than a driver. The miners were set up by Thatcher and Tebbitt and Scargill stupidly went for the bait. The miners were proved correct in their fears though . The mines were closed and cheaper imports did replace U.K. coal. Great for shareholders but not so good for U.K. workers. People are entitled to think what they like but personally i find it laughable that people think the tories are picking a fight for the sake of it. I don’t think they saw it coming but Shapps is lying about no involvement . The contracts were shown for the rail companies yesterday and they include no agreements without written consent of the Transport secretary. So it’s bullshit to say he isn’t pulling strings . The rail companies defer to Shapps by law. I think Starmer is right to stay out of it as this is all on the government not labour. Labour MPs walking on the picket lines are playing into the Tory hands of trying to make it a political fight rather than what it is which is about pay and conditions . More fool them. Even Lynch said he doesn’t care whether Starmer supports him or not as it’s about his workers not the Labour Party. Lynch is no mug . No Lynch he sees himself as the next scargill and wants to bring the government down where he couldn't. He isnt bothered if he ends up like him , scargill started with a big union and a small house and ended up with a big house and small union. "Scargill was stupid and his power nested his mind. Lynch isn’t that character at all and he’s not interested in who’s in charge they will red or blue both get a hard time from him. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
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Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Median salary of a driver is 59k a guard/ticket collector is 33k fact. They should be ashamed" You probably want to check what median means... | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Expect more strikes from other sectors. If the government refuse to honour raising pay with inflation. What do they expect?? They clearly have no ideas to deal with this crisis. Interest rates will go up considerably soon to counter inflation. Most workers will be facing ruin, if this persists. What happens to the economy when workers are facing large pay cuts in a time of high inflation. Lump into that credit card debt and mortgage payments going up. This government will default to austerity, whilst we are in a recession. Its like watching a slow motion car crash. Sure they will continue wasting money by trying to continually patch things up. Rather than addressing what should have been addressed when the banks crashed the economy in 2008. People will only tolerate a certain level of inequality until they lose their rag on mass. How do you suggest this crisis is dealt with? At least try to pay with inflation as at least that will eat people's debt and same will apply to the national debt. Whilst doing this fix peoples mortgages for at least 5 years, so rates can be raised without causing mass homelessness. This would also leverage the inflation to eat the mortgage debt. Take big steps to address supply chains, start on shoring as much as possible. Restructure the banks, so their main purpose is business lending and venture capital. Not lending for buy to let. Build affordable housing owned by the government, rather than spending tens of billions on housing benefit. That would be a start, but I'm sure there would be economists with far greater understanding and ideas. Basically we need to move away from being short termist/no planning and riddled with productivity sapping renteirism. To an economy that is about increasing productivity and leveraging technology. This requires vision and strategy from government. Also clean up all the lobbying and corruption. Raising wages in line with inflation will push inflation higher and you end up in a loop with no end. A hike in interest rates, deters spending and should bring inflation down, it isn't pretty and it will hurt many. We’re buying less anyway and due to austerity there is nowhere to go. The underlying costs associated with goods are now the problem and not wages as much. It’s going to get very painful though I do agree with you there. I agree we are clearly already in recession, the inflation has killed demand anyway. Also Belgium and luxemberg still have manditory wages rises linked to CPI. We have higher inflation than both those countries. I think this disproves the wage rises will fuel runaway inflation. Its just the government playing disaster politics to drive down wages, as that is their flawed idiology. It really isn't the government, the bank of England provides the strategy. Inflation is going up because people are still spending, that is how it works, spending and borrowing money to spend, drives inflation. But don't forget this is on a global stage, oil, gas, grain etc. There is no positive outcome other than venting some anger, in associating every past government blunder on cost of living crisis we have now. It is very clear that a global market place is what we are part of and that market is under extreme pressure due to the war in Ukraine and coming out of a pandemic. The situation we have now would be exactly the same whoever was in power, the direction we go in would probably be similar for who ever is in power too. It can be really easy to mudsling and say under this government it is worse, but that is an unrealistic argument, as there is nothing to compare what this government is doing now to anything else for the last 12 years. The reality of this is going to be tough for those that can least afford it." I don't think that you are correct here. Inflation is not demand driven. It is supply limited. It's the price of staple necessities such as fuel and electricity and basic foodstuffs that are rising the most. People cannot stop buying these things or even realistically reduce their purchases by much. The lowest paid need more money to pay for basic needs. That's the majority of the population based on how averages actually work. These same input costs are increasing the costs of all goods which is additional inflation. We have additionally created a labour shortage through Brexit which means that anybody with any skills can command higher wages regardless of inflation. The solution really is for government to probably strongarm companies into increasing pay for the poorest before dividends are paid. I would agree that above a certain threshold we will have to swallow below inflation pay rises, bit the public sector have been doing this for decades. Increased productivity can work, but requires investment which is not forthcoming very soon. Again, particularly in the public sector. In the meantime the Government want to raise restrictions on director's pay... | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Expect more strikes from other sectors. If the government refuse to honour raising pay with inflation. What do they expect?? They clearly have no ideas to deal with this crisis. Interest rates will go up considerably soon to counter inflation. Most workers will be facing ruin, if this persists. What happens to the economy when workers are facing large pay cuts in a time of high inflation. Lump into that credit card debt and mortgage payments going up. This government will default to austerity, whilst we are in a recession. Its like watching a slow motion car crash. Sure they will continue wasting money by trying to continually patch things up. Rather than addressing what should have been addressed when the banks crashed the economy in 2008. People will only tolerate a certain level of inequality until they lose their rag on mass. How do you suggest this crisis is dealt with? At least try to pay with inflation as at least that will eat people's debt and same will apply to the national debt. Whilst doing this fix peoples mortgages for at least 5 years, so rates can be raised without causing mass homelessness. This would also leverage the inflation to eat the mortgage debt. Take big steps to address supply chains, start on shoring as much as possible. Restructure the banks, so their main purpose is business lending and venture capital. Not lending for buy to let. Build affordable housing owned by the government, rather than spending tens of billions on housing benefit. That would be a start, but I'm sure there would be economists with far greater understanding and ideas. Basically we need to move away from being short termist/no planning and riddled with productivity sapping renteirism. To an economy that is about increasing productivity and leveraging technology. This requires vision and strategy from government. Also clean up all the lobbying and corruption. Raising wages in line with inflation will push inflation higher and you end up in a loop with no end. A hike in interest rates, deters spending and should bring inflation down, it isn't pretty and it will hurt many. We’re buying less anyway and due to austerity there is nowhere to go. The underlying costs associated with goods are now the problem and not wages as much. It’s going to get very painful though I do agree with you there. I agree we are clearly already in recession, the inflation has killed demand anyway. Also Belgium and luxemberg still have manditory wages rises linked to CPI. We have higher inflation than both those countries. I think this disproves the wage rises will fuel runaway inflation. Its just the government playing disaster politics to drive down wages, as that is their flawed idiology. It really isn't the government, the bank of England provides the strategy. Inflation is going up because people are still spending, that is how it works, spending and borrowing money to spend, drives inflation. But don't forget this is on a global stage, oil, gas, grain etc. There is no positive outcome other than venting some anger, in associating every past government blunder on cost of living crisis we have now. It is very clear that a global market place is what we are part of and that market is under extreme pressure due to the war in Ukraine and coming out of a pandemic. The situation we have now would be exactly the same whoever was in power, the direction we go in would probably be similar for who ever is in power too. It can be really easy to mudsling and say under this government it is worse, but that is an unrealistic argument, as there is nothing to compare what this government is doing now to anything else for the last 12 years. The reality of this is going to be tough for those that can least afford it. I don't think that you are correct here. Inflation is not demand driven. It is supply limited. It's the price of staple necessities such as fuel and electricity and basic foodstuffs that are rising the most. People cannot stop buying these things or even realistically reduce their purchases by much. The lowest paid need more money to pay for basic needs. That's the majority of the population based on how averages actually work. These same input costs are increasing the costs of all goods which is additional inflation. We have additionally created a labour shortage through Brexit which means that anybody with any skills can command higher wages regardless of inflation. The solution really is for government to probably strongarm companies into increasing pay for the poorest before dividends are paid. I would agree that above a certain threshold we will have to swallow below inflation pay rises, bit the public sector have been doing this for decades. Increased productivity can work, but requires investment which is not forthcoming very soon. Again, particularly in the public sector. In the meantime the Government want to raise restrictions on director's pay..." I'm interested in "the increased productivity" what is this and how will it work? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Expect more strikes from other sectors. If the government refuse to honour raising pay with inflation. What do they expect?? They clearly have no ideas to deal with this crisis. Interest rates will go up considerably soon to counter inflation. Most workers will be facing ruin, if this persists. What happens to the economy when workers are facing large pay cuts in a time of high inflation. Lump into that credit card debt and mortgage payments going up. This government will default to austerity, whilst we are in a recession. Its like watching a slow motion car crash. Sure they will continue wasting money by trying to continually patch things up. Rather than addressing what should have been addressed when the banks crashed the economy in 2008. People will only tolerate a certain level of inequality until they lose their rag on mass. How do you suggest this crisis is dealt with? At least try to pay with inflation as at least that will eat people's debt and same will apply to the national debt. Whilst doing this fix peoples mortgages for at least 5 years, so rates can be raised without causing mass homelessness. This would also leverage the inflation to eat the mortgage debt. Take big steps to address supply chains, start on shoring as much as possible. Restructure the banks, so their main purpose is business lending and venture capital. Not lending for buy to let. Build affordable housing owned by the government, rather than spending tens of billions on housing benefit. That would be a start, but I'm sure there would be economists with far greater understanding and ideas. Basically we need to move away from being short termist/no planning and riddled with productivity sapping renteirism. To an economy that is about increasing productivity and leveraging technology. This requires vision and strategy from government. Also clean up all the lobbying and corruption. Raising wages in line with inflation will push inflation higher and you end up in a loop with no end. A hike in interest rates, deters spending and should bring inflation down, it isn't pretty and it will hurt many. We’re buying less anyway and due to austerity there is nowhere to go. The underlying costs associated with goods are now the problem and not wages as much. It’s going to get very painful though I do agree with you there. I agree we are clearly already in recession, the inflation has killed demand anyway. Also Belgium and luxemberg still have manditory wages rises linked to CPI. We have higher inflation than both those countries. I think this disproves the wage rises will fuel runaway inflation. Its just the government playing disaster politics to drive down wages, as that is their flawed idiology. It really isn't the government, the bank of England provides the strategy. Inflation is going up because people are still spending, that is how it works, spending and borrowing money to spend, drives inflation. But don't forget this is on a global stage, oil, gas, grain etc. There is no positive outcome other than venting some anger, in associating every past government blunder on cost of living crisis we have now. It is very clear that a global market place is what we are part of and that market is under extreme pressure due to the war in Ukraine and coming out of a pandemic. The situation we have now would be exactly the same whoever was in power, the direction we go in would probably be similar for who ever is in power too. It can be really easy to mudsling and say under this government it is worse, but that is an unrealistic argument, as there is nothing to compare what this government is doing now to anything else for the last 12 years. The reality of this is going to be tough for those that can least afford it. I don't think that you are correct here. Inflation is not demand driven. It is supply limited. It's the price of staple necessities such as fuel and electricity and basic foodstuffs that are rising the most. People cannot stop buying these things or even realistically reduce their purchases by much. The lowest paid need more money to pay for basic needs. That's the majority of the population based on how averages actually work. These same input costs are increasing the costs of all goods which is additional inflation. We have additionally created a labour shortage through Brexit which means that anybody with any skills can command higher wages regardless of inflation. The solution really is for government to probably strongarm companies into increasing pay for the poorest before dividends are paid. I would agree that above a certain threshold we will have to swallow below inflation pay rises, bit the public sector have been doing this for decades. Increased productivity can work, but requires investment which is not forthcoming very soon. Again, particularly in the public sector. In the meantime the Government want to raise restrictions on director's pay... I'm interested in "the increased productivity" what is this and how will it work?" productivity wise network rail is just about there and cannot do much more hundreds of signalboxes and crossing boxes closed and replaced with computerised systems using less staff .the big savings they can make is to cut middle management something they tried to do last year with voluntary redundancys which was over subscribed and they did not have the funding .the union are prepared to go with this but the dft are refusing to fund it unless there are compulsory redundancies meaning the wrong posts and wrong people will be desposed of to the detriment of the company and travelers alike .who's pulling the string none other than not me guv shapps | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
If they are not profitable that way then they are not a valid business model.
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Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Expect more strikes from other sectors. If the government refuse to honour raising pay with inflation. What do they expect?? They clearly have no ideas to deal with this crisis. Interest rates will go up considerably soon to counter inflation. Most workers will be facing ruin, if this persists. What happens to the economy when workers are facing large pay cuts in a time of high inflation. Lump into that credit card debt and mortgage payments going up. This government will default to austerity, whilst we are in a recession. Its like watching a slow motion car crash. Sure they will continue wasting money by trying to continually patch things up. Rather than addressing what should have been addressed when the banks crashed the economy in 2008. People will only tolerate a certain level of inequality until they lose their rag on mass. How do you suggest this crisis is dealt with? At least try to pay with inflation as at least that will eat people's debt and same will apply to the national debt. Whilst doing this fix peoples mortgages for at least 5 years, so rates can be raised without causing mass homelessness. This would also leverage the inflation to eat the mortgage debt. Take big steps to address supply chains, start on shoring as much as possible. Restructure the banks, so their main purpose is business lending and venture capital. Not lending for buy to let. Build affordable housing owned by the government, rather than spending tens of billions on housing benefit. That would be a start, but I'm sure there would be economists with far greater understanding and ideas. Basically we need to move away from being short termist/no planning and riddled with productivity sapping renteirism. To an economy that is about increasing productivity and leveraging technology. This requires vision and strategy from government. Also clean up all the lobbying and corruption. Raising wages in line with inflation will push inflation higher and you end up in a loop with no end. A hike in interest rates, deters spending and should bring inflation down, it isn't pretty and it will hurt many. We’re buying less anyway and due to austerity there is nowhere to go. The underlying costs associated with goods are now the problem and not wages as much. It’s going to get very painful though I do agree with you there. I agree we are clearly already in recession, the inflation has killed demand anyway. Also Belgium and luxemberg still have manditory wages rises linked to CPI. We have higher inflation than both those countries. I think this disproves the wage rises will fuel runaway inflation. Its just the government playing disaster politics to drive down wages, as that is their flawed idiology. It really isn't the government, the bank of England provides the strategy. Inflation is going up because people are still spending, that is how it works, spending and borrowing money to spend, drives inflation. But don't forget this is on a global stage, oil, gas, grain etc. There is no positive outcome other than venting some anger, in associating every past government blunder on cost of living crisis we have now. It is very clear that a global market place is what we are part of and that market is under extreme pressure due to the war in Ukraine and coming out of a pandemic. The situation we have now would be exactly the same whoever was in power, the direction we go in would probably be similar for who ever is in power too. It can be really easy to mudsling and say under this government it is worse, but that is an unrealistic argument, as there is nothing to compare what this government is doing now to anything else for the last 12 years. The reality of this is going to be tough for those that can least afford it. I don't think that you are correct here. Inflation is not demand driven. It is supply limited. It's the price of staple necessities such as fuel and electricity and basic foodstuffs that are rising the most. People cannot stop buying these things or even realistically reduce their purchases by much. The lowest paid need more money to pay for basic needs. That's the majority of the population based on how averages actually work. These same input costs are increasing the costs of all goods which is additional inflation. We have additionally created a labour shortage through Brexit which means that anybody with any skills can command higher wages regardless of inflation. The solution really is for government to probably strongarm companies into increasing pay for the poorest before dividends are paid. I would agree that above a certain threshold we will have to swallow below inflation pay rises, bit the public sector have been doing this for decades. Increased productivity can work, but requires investment which is not forthcoming very soon. Again, particularly in the public sector. In the meantime the Government want to raise restrictions on director's pay... I'm interested in "the increased productivity" what is this and how will it work?" That would require significant increases in automation. Everything from signalling to maintenance to driving. Huge investment and a lot of teething problems to resolve. You can replace people, bit it's really, really difficult in most cases. | |||
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Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Maybe the subsidies should be stopped and the railways should be stand alone businesses
If they are not profitable that way then they are not a valid business model.
"Same with the road network then. No more subsidies and charge for every mile of use, right? Capitalism does not always work. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Maybe the subsidies should be stopped and the railways should be stand alone businesses
If they are not profitable that way then they are not a valid business model.
Same with the road network then.
No more subsidies and charge for every mile of use, right?
Capitalism does not always work."That’s ok you by the mile would be fairer for a lot of people ingest of a blanket road tax regardless of how much you travel | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
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Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Maybe the subsidies should be stopped and the railways should be stand alone businesses
If they are not profitable that way then they are not a valid business model.
Same with the road network then.
No more subsidies and charge for every mile of use, right?
Capitalism does not always work.
That’s ok you by the mile would be fairer for a lot of people ingest of a blanket road tax regardless of how much you travel "So trains stop running, bus fairs rise and road transport costs rise because every road becomes a toll road. More remote roads will charge more as they have less use and cost more to maintain. I guess you see no problem in this. Write a letter to Rees-Mogg. Could be a Brexit opportunity to completely rethink transportation... | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Maybe the subsidies should be stopped and the railways should be stand alone businesses
If they are not profitable that way then they are not a valid business model.
Same with the road network then.
No more subsidies and charge for every mile of use, right?
Capitalism does not always work.
That’s ok you by the mile would be fairer for a lot of people ingest of a blanket road tax regardless of how much you travel
So trains stop running, bus fairs rise and road transport costs rise because every road becomes a toll road.
More remote roads will charge more as they have less use and cost more to maintain.
I guess you see no problem in this.
Write a letter to Rees-Mogg. Could be a Brexit opportunity to completely rethink transportation..."The price rises will happen anyway so no letters needed
the rail strike is a farce.
Now the baggage handlers and airstaff I agree with as ther had a 10% realtime cut which should have been reinstated | |||
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"Maybe the subsidies should be stopped and the railways should be stand alone businesses
If they are not profitable that way then they are not a valid business model.
Same with the road network then.
No more subsidies and charge for every mile of use, right?
Capitalism does not always work.
That’s ok you by the mile would be fairer for a lot of people ingest of a blanket road tax regardless of how much you travel
So trains stop running, bus fairs rise and road transport costs rise because every road becomes a toll road.
More remote roads will charge more as they have less use and cost more to maintain.
I guess you see no problem in this.
Write a letter to Rees-Mogg. Could be a Brexit opportunity to completely rethink transportation...
The price rises will happen anyway so no letters needed
the rail strike is a farce.
Now the baggage handlers and airstaff I agree with as ther had a 10% realtime cut which should have been reinstated "What makes the rail strike "a farce" and why not charge people in remote areas more for using roads? | |||
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"Dumb question alert. Are rail ticket prices not linked to inflation ? If so, how does the wage inflation = price inflation work here..." It’s law that the prices increase and nothing to do with wage settlement. I think it is set this way to attract the private investors but I’m not sure. The main beneficiaries of the increase are shareholders. Not the workers and definitely not the customers. | |||
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"Dumb question alert. Are rail ticket prices not linked to inflation ? If so, how does the wage inflation = price inflation work here... It’s law that the prices increase and nothing to do with wage settlement. I think it is set this way to attract the private investors but I’m not sure. The main beneficiaries of the increase are shareholders. Not the workers and definitely not the customers. " that's what I thought. So raile prices are rising regardless. Other industries I can understand the argument to some degree. But I can't see it applies here. (What may apply here is that revenue won't be increasing by inflation as passenger numbers are down). | |||
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"Dumb question alert. Are rail ticket prices not linked to inflation ? If so, how does the wage inflation = price inflation work here... It’s law that the prices increase and nothing to do with wage settlement. I think it is set this way to attract the private investors but I’m not sure. The main beneficiaries of the increase are shareholders. Not the workers and definitely not the customers. that's what I thought. So raile prices are rising regardless. Other industries I can understand the argument to some degree. But I can't see it applies here. (What may apply here is that revenue won't be increasing by inflation as passenger numbers are down). " Yes that’s true. | |||
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"I think there is a general misconception about how the railways are run. It is completely different now as to what was ‘franchising’. Train operators are now awarded a national rail contract which will give them a certain amount £m to run the train services for a set period of time, if they meet performance targets then they will receive additional money. All surplus revenue returns to central government ie the treasury. Most have also been on a pay freeze for a number of years and this strike is nothing to do with drivers who do earn more than the average RMT employee. Other unions are balloting and it may well be that there is a strike as a result of the drivers in due course. This isn’t just about wages, it’s also about safety concerns and compulsory redundancies. " So where does the dividends come from? | |||
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"Now that’s interesting, So the previous hundreds of millions of dividends have been paid out but now the franchises are not making money the private sector is walking away not putting their hands in their pockets to support or re-invest. Also I read all the contracts have a final clause in writing that the transport secretary has the final say. Is that correct? " I wouldn’t say that the private sector are walking away but government decided to change how train services are run. They had to spend billions during the pandemic to keep services running as a public service. The government had to absorb all risk and that will remain the same but they will also take any profits beyond what is agreed in the contracts as opposed to the operators. I’d hazard a guess that the part about the sos is likely true but I don’t know that for a fact. The contracts maybe available online but with commercially sensitive info redacted. The gov own all of the railways and how it is operated. Operators have no power whatsoever. | |||
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"To those that are against the strikes… If your employer tells you they are going to rip up your old contract and get you to sign you a new, much worse one, do you bend over and take it or kneel down and suck it before thanking them?" I think they do both. | |||
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"Cant remember which country it was (may have been imaginary) but continuing to work but refusing to check tickets or take payment, instead letting people ride for free would likely get the result unions are looking for. " Is it called work to rule. But can the employer refuse to pay them..? Also with season tickets and many tickets bought online, would it hurt the employers if the could refuse to pay them or deduct a certain amount..? | |||
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"Cant remember which country it was (may have been imaginary) but continuing to work but refusing to check tickets or take payment, instead letting people ride for free would likely get the result unions are looking for. Is it called work to rule. But can the employer refuse to pay them..? Also with season tickets and many tickets bought online, would it hurt the employers if the could refuse to pay them or deduct a certain amount..?" I wouldn't know if they would receive pay but the principle would be they would let whoever they could take fares for free. As a result using the companies resources whilst not gaining revenue. I understand season ticket holders, though those with weekly or day tickets would simply walk though open gates. The economy would keep moving just their business would suffer until a negotiated end. | |||
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"Why do they think they are better deserving than their customers ? Let them go find better paid employment elsewhere..." Presumably spoken from a position of someone not suffering too badly with rising prices (yet). Some have said rising interest rates will follow rising prices in due course. Maybe, but so far rates have been slow to rise compared to inflation. Inflation isn't yet being driven by wage inflation (but supply constraints). But it could if things don't improve soon (Putin understands this only too well & rubbing his hands with glee seeing the UK economy suffering more than the Russian). On the face of it we seem to be facing a workforce shortage. Yet if you look at the vast majority of jobs going, they are low paid / close to minimum wage. Why is the care sector so short staffed....pay is low and it's a thankless and difficult job. BA management is 'disappointed staff may strike'. Ummm.... but didn't they force workers to take a pay cut not so long ago? The fact is if this isn't going to rapidly lead to a depression, the government should be leading by example and offering significant rises to the poorest paid, with maybe a tiered rise. And while the rest of us won't like it, better paid workers will have to share the pain. Otherwise we'll be back to the 70s with the economy spiralling out of control. Of course theres no chance Tory policy has room for such a 'socialist' approach....and in any case Tory voters would nt stand for it. | |||
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"Cant remember which country it was (may have been imaginary) but continuing to work but refusing to check tickets or take payment, instead letting people ride for free would likely get the result unions are looking for. " I think this might be illegal in UK | |||
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"Cant remember which country it was (may have been imaginary) but continuing to work but refusing to check tickets or take payment, instead letting people ride for free would likely get the result unions are looking for. I think this might be illegal in UK" it was in Japan one of the few times rail staff there needed to go on strike as it is seen respected well paid career there in an essential public service .not like here where it is seen as the exact opposite | |||
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"Cant remember which country it was (may have been imaginary) but continuing to work but refusing to check tickets or take payment, instead letting people ride for free would likely get the result unions are looking for. I think this might be illegal in UKit was in Japan one of the few times rail staff there needed to go on strike as it is seen respected well paid career there in an essential public service .not like here where it is seen as the exact opposite " I thought Japan already had some driverless trains and the plan there is to have almost all trains there driverless by 2028? Yes a very repected career in Japan. | |||
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"Cant remember which country it was (may have been imaginary) but continuing to work but refusing to check tickets or take payment ..." That's how they do it in Germany. "I think this might be illegal in UK" No one seems to know why that would be illegal. I wonder where that thought started. | |||
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"Cant remember which country it was (may have been imaginary) but continuing to work but refusing to check tickets or take payment ... That's how they do it in Germany. I think this might be illegal in UK No one seems to know why that would be illegal. I wonder where that thought started." isn't it okay to break the law in specific and limited ways too? | |||
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"Cant remember which country it was (may have been imaginary) but continuing to work but refusing to check tickets or take payment, instead letting people ride for free would likely get the result unions are looking for. " That sounds a reasonable compromise but could it leave the worker at risk of being sacked? If your employed to take payments and check tickets but decide not to do it then the employers might decide you are not doing your job properly. Just a thought | |||
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