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Police Response Times
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"The Chief of Police is facing criticism because policemen are responding slower to serious 999 incidents in 28% of cases than six years ago. In the last seven years there has been a year on year fall in the number of people prosecuted and by 40% in that time... Looking on the bright side they have a flag painted in rainbow colours ... What's going on here guys .. Leave the rainbow flag to us and just catch the bad guys .. "How fast are the police women responding?!   | |||
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Anyway sorry I don’t like the police so thats all I have to add. | |||
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"The Chief of Police is facing criticism because policemen are responding slower to serious 999 incidents in 28% of cases than six years ago. In the last seven years there has been a year on year fall in the number of people prosecuted and by 40% in that time... Looking on the bright side they have a flag painted in rainbow colours ... What's going on here guys .. Leave the rainbow flag to us and just catch the bad guys .. "does that mean in 78pc of cases they are faster... ? Go faster for the win. | |||
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"The Chief of Police is facing criticism because policemen are responding slower to serious 999 incidents in 28% of cases than six years ago. In the last seven years there has been a year on year fall in the number of people prosecuted and by 40% in that time... Looking on the bright side they have a flag painted in rainbow colours ... What's going on here guys .. Leave the rainbow flag to us and just catch the bad guys .. does that mean in 78pc of cases they are faster... ?
Go faster for the win. "72pc. And I'm meant to have a maths degree. | |||
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"The Chief of Police is facing criticism because policemen are responding slower to serious 999 incidents in 28% of cases than six years ago. In the last seven years there has been a year on year fall in the number of people prosecuted and by 40% in that time... Looking on the bright side they have a flag painted in rainbow colours ... What's going on here guys .. Leave the rainbow flag to us and just catch the bad guys .. "You obviously know the reason why you've felt the need to dig at the LGBTQIA community when it's irrelevant to this The reason they're response times are low is because they're short staffed, no other reason | |||
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"Remember that J Cole lyric? ‘I came fast like 911 in white neighbourhoods’
Anyway sorry I don’t like the police so thats all I have to add. "Very underrated player he was  | |||
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"They should make better allowances for people to defend themselves and their homes/property with force. It's going to be necessary like it or not as the Police clearly aren't going to do anything but regress as a service." The laws are there, was brought in soon after Tony Martin. If someone threatens you IN your own home, you’re allowed to use reasonable force*. You just can’t chase them into the street and then batter them. *I.e. if someone threatens you with a hammer, you cannot blast them with a shotgun, that’s disproportionate force. | |||
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"All the people that constantly slate the Police/response times and lack of officers. I seriously hope that if a day ever comes that you or your family needs them, you don't bother calling 999 with all the hatred some people seem to have against them and deal with any issues yourself. Then see how your views change when no one comes to help. "Yep | |||
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"The Chief of Police is facing criticism because policemen are responding slower to serious 999 incidents in 28% of cases than six years ago. In the last seven years there has been a year on year fall in the number of people prosecuted and by 40% in that time... Looking on the bright side they have a flag painted in rainbow colours ... What's going on here guys .. Leave the rainbow flag to us and just catch the bad guys ..
How fast are the police women responding?! "They take even longer as they get delayed deciding which shoes go with their uniform that day   | |||
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"Had a recent recruitment drive but we still no where near where we could have bobbys on the beat " Lots of em stopping crimes on motorway bridges though. | |||
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"All the people that constantly slate the Police/response times and lack of officers. I seriously hope that if a day ever comes that you or your family needs them, you don't bother calling 999 with all the hatred some people seem to have against them and deal with any issues yourself. Then see how your views change when no one comes to help. "This is a fair point to be honest. But I don’t hate the police for what they’re supposed to be- I hate them for what they actually are. And I feel like dislike/ distrust of the police when it comes from your lived experience of them not protecting you but actually constantly seeking to humiliate, criminalise and brutalise you is pretty fair. What about the *people that call the police and get treated like criminals rather than victims? What about the people that are more likely to be tasered? Or subjected to force? Or stopped? What about the people that for generations have had the police not take their claims seriously, not protect them when they’ve needed it and actually allowed violence against them to happen? Those are perfectly valid positions in my opinion. And those feelings don’t take away from people wanting the police to be there to protect and support us. Just a recognition that that shouldn’t be exclusive nor should it come at a cost of having to suck up the rest of it. Sorry for ranting- it’s not aimed at you but is something I feel passionately about because I don’t think enough people consider it. | |||
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"All the people that constantly slate the Police/response times and lack of officers. I seriously hope that if a day ever comes that you or your family needs them, you don't bother calling 999 with all the hatred some people seem to have against them and deal with any issues yourself. Then see how your views change when no one comes to help.
This is a fair point to be honest. But I don’t hate the police for what they’re supposed to be- I hate them for what they actually are.
And I feel like dislike/ distrust of the police when it comes from your lived experience of them not protecting you but actually constantly seeking to humiliate, criminalise and brutalise you is pretty fair. What about the *people that call the police and get treated like criminals rather than victims? What about the people that are more likely to be tasered? Or subjected to force? Or stopped? What about the people that for generations have had the police not take their claims seriously, not protect them when they’ve needed it and actually allowed violence against them to happen? Those are perfectly valid positions in my opinion. And those feelings don’t take away from people wanting the police to be there to protect and support us. Just a recognition that that shouldn’t be exclusive nor should it come at a cost of having to suck up the rest of it.
Sorry for ranting- it’s not aimed at you but is something I feel passionately about because I don’t think enough people consider it. "Well said. | |||
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"All the people that constantly slate the Police/response times and lack of officers. I seriously hope that if a day ever comes that you or your family needs them, you don't bother calling 999 with all the hatred some people seem to have against them and deal with any issues yourself. Then see how your views change when no one comes to help. "Hilarious, how wanting a better police force that is paid by the taxpayer is seen as a bad thing. Same as well if you criticise our county why don’t you just leave brigade lol . | |||
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"All the people that constantly slate the Police/response times and lack of officers. I seriously hope that if a day ever comes that you or your family needs them, you don't bother calling 999 with all the hatred some people seem to have against them and deal with any issues yourself. Then see how your views change when no one comes to help.
Hilarious, how wanting a better police force that is paid by the taxpayer is seen as a bad thing. Same as well if you criticise our county why don’t you just leave brigade lol ."This!!! | |||
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"I think they've got priorities wrong and spending too much time, money and resources on non-crime hate incidents. With fewer resources since the Tories took office - the police needs to focus on actual crime. Not wrong think. "Under the police’s “non-crime” guidance, anyone could report you for anything. 120,000 of these “hate incidents” were recorded between 2014 and 2019, an endless litany of — often utterly innocent — words and actions which were now officially classified as hateful."" Do you mean hate crimes that are verbal attacks? And how many of those incidents make up 999 calls? | |||
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"The Chief of Police is facing criticism because policemen are responding slower to serious 999 incidents in 28% of cases than six years ago. In the last seven years there has been a year on year fall in the number of people prosecuted and by 40% in that time... Looking on the bright side they have a flag painted in rainbow colours ... What's going on here guys .. Leave the rainbow flag to us and just catch the bad guys .. does that mean in 78pc of cases they are faster... ?
Go faster for the win. 72pc. And I'm meant to have a maths degree. "Further update. They are taking 28pc slower. Not slower 28pc of the time. That's a more newsworthy statistic! Also on the BBC is an increase in 999 calls (in one police force). That plus falling numbers could all play into this ... | |||
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"I think they've got priorities wrong and spending too much time, money and resources on non-crime hate incidents. With fewer resources since the Tories took office - the police needs to focus on actual crime. Not wrong think. "Under the police’s “non-crime” guidance, anyone could report you for anything. 120,000 of these “hate incidents” were recorded between 2014 and 2019, an endless litany of — often utterly innocent — words and actions which were now officially classified as hateful." Do you mean hate crimes that are verbal attacks? And how many of those incidents make up 999 calls? " No. They're not crimes. They're incidents that nonetheless must be recorded. Time is spent on that when it could be spent improving response times etc. I don't know what percent of 999 calls. | |||
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"All the people that constantly slate the Police/response times and lack of officers. I seriously hope that if a day ever comes that you or your family needs them, you don't bother calling 999 with all the hatred some people seem to have against them and deal with any issues yourself. Then see how your views change when no one comes to help.
Hilarious, how wanting a better police force that is paid by the taxpayer is seen as a bad thing. Same as well if you criticise our county why don’t you just leave brigade lol ."Good point. Same as we are expected to tolerate bad service without comment or complaint... We should expect excellent services in this country . We pay enough for them. | |||
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"I think they've got priorities wrong and spending too much time, money and resources on non-crime hate incidents. With fewer resources since the Tories took office - the police needs to focus on actual crime. Not wrong think. "Under the police’s “non-crime” guidance, anyone could report you for anything. 120,000 of these “hate incidents” were recorded between 2014 and 2019, an endless litany of — often utterly innocent — words and actions which were now officially classified as hateful."" Its verbal abuse... | |||
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"I think they've got priorities wrong and spending too much time, money and resources on non-crime hate incidents. With fewer resources since the Tories took office - the police needs to focus on actual crime. Not wrong think. "Under the police’s “non-crime” guidance, anyone could report you for anything. 120,000 of these “hate incidents” were recorded between 2014 and 2019, an endless litany of — often utterly innocent — words and actions which were now officially classified as hateful."" If you were a victim of hate crime, I’m pretty sure you’ll feel differently. The issue as has been mentioned, in real term cuts to police budgets. | |||
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"I think they've got priorities wrong and spending too much time, money and resources on non-crime hate incidents. With fewer resources since the Tories took office - the police needs to focus on actual crime. Not wrong think. "Under the police’s “non-crime” guidance, anyone could report you for anything. 120,000 of these “hate incidents” were recorded between 2014 and 2019, an endless litany of — often utterly innocent — words and actions which were now officially classified as hateful." Do you mean hate crimes that are verbal attacks? And how many of those incidents make up 999 calls? No. They're not crimes. They're incidents that nonetheless must be recorded. Time is spent on that when it could be spent improving response times etc. I don't know what percent of 999 calls. " I feel like the police, as they are, should deal with these incidents. But as a lot of these incidents are logged with other organisations I support the idea that we log them all with a separate organisation that focuses specifically on these incidents to produce data that is really important (in my biased opinion ). But also is 120,000 in 5 years the reason for poor response times? I’d disagree but fair. | |||
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"I think they've got priorities wrong and spending too much time, money and resources on non-crime hate incidents. With fewer resources since the Tories took office - the police needs to focus on actual crime. Not wrong think. "Under the police’s “non-crime” guidance, anyone could report you for anything. 120,000 of these “hate incidents” were recorded between 2014 and 2019, an endless litany of — often utterly innocent — words and actions which were now officially classified as hateful." If you were a victim of hate crime, I’m pretty sure you’ll feel differently. The issue as has been mentioned, in real term cuts to police budgets. " It's not a "hate crime". That would be an actual crime which someone can be convicted for. I'm talking about non-crime hate incidents. | |||
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"I think they've got priorities wrong and spending too much time, money and resources on non-crime hate incidents. With fewer resources since the Tories took office - the police needs to focus on actual crime. Not wrong think. "Under the police’s “non-crime” guidance, anyone could report you for anything. 120,000 of these “hate incidents” were recorded between 2014 and 2019, an endless litany of — often utterly innocent — words and actions which were now officially classified as hateful." Its verbal abuse..." No. That would be the criminal charge of "Hate crime". I'm talking about something else which wastes thousands of hours of police time a year. Feel free to Google "non-crime hate incidents". | |||
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"Ah, Tom managing to blame government-driven police cuts on gay people. Yup, must be a Monday." He criticised the police for being performative. Not gay people. | |||
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"I think they've got priorities wrong and spending too much time, money and resources on non-crime hate incidents. With fewer resources since the Tories took office - the police needs to focus on actual crime. Not wrong think. "Under the police’s “non-crime” guidance, anyone could report you for anything. 120,000 of these “hate incidents” were recorded between 2014 and 2019, an endless litany of — often utterly innocent — words and actions which were now officially classified as hateful." If you were a victim of hate crime, I’m pretty sure you’ll feel differently. The issue as has been mentioned, in real term cuts to police budgets. It's not a "hate crime". That would be an actual crime which someone can be convicted for. I'm talking about non-crime hate incidents. " Tbf as the police define them both I would say that verbal abuse (which would be logged as a non crime incident) is worth police time. And in my opinion downplays the way that symbolic violence is still violence. Part of the problems with tackling these issues is to do with how they’re policed. | |||
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"They're too busy strip searching teenage girls for , based on nothing but the colour of their skin. The cuts to police numbers are clearly part of the issue. However, I'm not sure more of a bad thing is good. Maybe it would help if they had targets like: "respond to crimes involving a white suspect as quickly as you do when the suspect is a person of colour"! "  | |||
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"Ah, Tom managing to blame government-driven police cuts on gay people. Yup, must be a Monday. He criticised the police for being performative. Not gay people. " We know what game he was playing. | |||
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"I think they've got priorities wrong and spending too much time, money and resources on non-crime hate incidents. With fewer resources since the Tories took office - the police needs to focus on actual crime. Not wrong think. "Under the police’s “non-crime” guidance, anyone could report you for anything. 120,000 of these “hate incidents” were recorded between 2014 and 2019, an endless litany of — often utterly innocent — words and actions which were now officially classified as hateful." Its verbal abuse... No. That would be the criminal charge of "Hate crime". I'm talking about something else which wastes thousands of hours of police time a year. Feel free to Google "non-crime hate incidents"." Not sure if you told me to Google it to prove what I said was right but here you go "What is a Hate Incident? A hate incident is any non-crime incident which is perceived by the victim or any other person to be motivated by hostility or prejudice based on a person's disability, race, religion, sexual orientation or gender identity or perceived disability, race, religion, sexual orientation or gender identity. Examples include: Verbal or online abuse, insults or harassment, such as taunting, offensive leaflets and posters, abusive gestures, dumping of rubbish outside homes or through letterboxes, and bullying at school or in the workplace.A hate incident doesn't mean that we won't take it seriously if someone reports it." Taken from the west Yorkshire police website. Have a good day | |||
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"They're too busy strip searching teenage girls for , based on nothing but the colour of their skin. The cuts to police numbers are clearly part of the issue. However, I'm not sure more of a bad thing is good. Maybe it would help if they had targets like: "respond to crimes involving a white suspect as quickly as you do when the suspect is a person of colour"! " Thanks to the new policing bill, things have just gotten worse for those wrongly targeted by policing. | |||
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"No. That would be the criminal charge of "Hate crime". I'm talking about something else which wastes thousands of hours of police time a year. Feel free to Google "non-crime hate incidents"." I've only ever seen transphobes pushing this line because they don't like being reported for hate crimes. Never seen it in normal discourse before. The public can't be expected to know when something is a hate crime or just borders on such, and reports are an important part of documenting patterns which then constitute a crime (often harassment). Its especially important for victims of harassment to know they can contact the police and record incidents without worrying whether or not they're crimes. It's already a barrier for e.g. women to report incidents because, individually, they don't constitute a crime and they think the police will just chalk them up as timewasters. It's seen often in the stories of people who then have quite horrific crimes committed against them. Please don't push dangerous ideas like this. I hope anyone reading this feels empowered to raise reports to the police, and these reports are an important part of identifying dangerous people. It's not the fault of victims that the police are underfunded. | |||
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"No. That would be the criminal charge of "Hate crime". I'm talking about something else which wastes thousands of hours of police time a year. Feel free to Google "non-crime hate incidents". I've only ever seen transphobes pushing this line because they don't like being reported for hate crimes. Never seen it in normal discourse before. The public can't be expected to know when something is a hate crime or just borders on such, and reports are an important part of documenting patterns which then constitute a crime (often harassment). Its especially important for victims of harassment to know they can contact the police and record incidents without worrying whether or not they're crimes. It's already a barrier for e.g. women to report incidents because, individually, they don't constitute a crime and they think the police will just chalk them up as timewasters. It's seen often in the stories of people who then have quite horrific crimes committed against them. Please don't push dangerous ideas like this. I hope anyone reading this feels empowered to raise reports to the police, and these reports are an important part of identifying dangerous people. It's not the fault of victims that the police are underfunded." Many of the points you raise as reasons why these 'non-crimes' should be taken seriously and recorded are echoed by the college of policing. | |||
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"No. That would be the criminal charge of "Hate crime". I'm talking about something else which wastes thousands of hours of police time a year. Feel free to Google "non-crime hate incidents". I've only ever seen transphobes pushing this line because they don't like being reported for hate crimes. Never seen it in normal discourse before. The public can't be expected to know when something is a hate crime or just borders on such, and reports are an important part of documenting patterns which then constitute a crime (often harassment). Its especially important for victims of harassment to know they can contact the police and record incidents without worrying whether or not they're crimes. It's already a barrier for e.g. women to report incidents because, individually, they don't constitute a crime and they think the police will just chalk them up as timewasters. It's seen often in the stories of people who then have quite horrific crimes committed against them. Please don't push dangerous ideas like this. I hope anyone reading this feels empowered to raise reports to the police, and these reports are an important part of identifying dangerous people. It's not the fault of victims that the police are underfunded. Many of the points you raise as reasons why these 'non-crimes' should be taken seriously and recorded are echoed by the college of policing." Quite. It's like issuing officers with guns - ideologically driven rather than what the police are actually asking ffor Officers know how important data is and very rarely ask for less of it. | |||
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"No. That would be the criminal charge of "Hate crime". I'm talking about something else which wastes thousands of hours of police time a year. Feel free to Google "non-crime hate incidents". I've only ever seen transphobes pushing this line because they don't like being reported for hate crimes. Never seen it in normal discourse before. The public can't be expected to know when something is a hate crime or just borders on such, and reports are an important part of documenting patterns which then constitute a crime (often harassment). Its especially important for victims of harassment to know they can contact the police and record incidents without worrying whether or not they're crimes. It's already a barrier for e.g. women to report incidents because, individually, they don't constitute a crime and they think the police will just chalk them up as timewasters. It's seen often in the stories of people who then have quite horrific crimes committed against them. Please don't push dangerous ideas like this. I hope anyone reading this feels empowered to raise reports to the police, and these reports are an important part of identifying dangerous people. It's not the fault of victims that the police are underfunded." Very well said . | |||
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"Point fingers at the police Point fingers at people we think are wasting police time with no crime hate whatever But don’t you dare point your finger at a government that has consistently stripped funding from the police. It’s not their fault. It’s everyone else’s " Absolutely this. The police can only do what it does with the resources given. Mental health in officers is on the decline, good officers are leaving the sector because the stress does not relate to the pay, a junior officer earns less than I do, that cannot be right surely. | |||
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"Point fingers at the police Point fingers at people we think are wasting police time with no crime hate whatever But don’t you dare point your finger at a government that has consistently stripped funding from the police. It’s not their fault. It’s everyone else’s " Correct. Underfunded, under appreciated with poor training. Add on poor pay, no wonder people don't want to be a copper  | |||
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"No. That would be the criminal charge of "Hate crime". I'm talking about something else which wastes thousands of hours of police time a year. Feel free to Google "non-crime hate incidents". I've only ever seen transphobes pushing this line because they don't like being reported for hate crimes. Never seen it in normal discourse before. The public can't be expected to know when something is a hate crime or just borders on such, and reports are an important part of documenting patterns which then constitute a crime (often harassment). Its especially important for victims of harassment to know they can contact the police and record incidents without worrying whether or not they're crimes. It's already a barrier for e.g. women to report incidents because, individually, they don't constitute a crime and they think the police will just chalk them up as timewasters. It's seen often in the stories of people who then have quite horrific crimes committed against them. Please don't push dangerous ideas like this. I hope anyone reading this feels empowered to raise reports to the police, and these reports are an important part of identifying dangerous people. It's not the fault of victims that the police are underfunded." "Dangerous idea"? That the Court of Appeal agreed with in December 2021 and decreed that non-crime hate incidents should no longer be recorded. Are you now calling me a trans phobe for saying that completely pointless records of non-crimes shouldn't be recorded? The police ARE underfunded. And because of that I think they should focus on actual crimes which affect people. Including hate crimes, of course. Which will result in convictions and consequences for perpetrators. | |||
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"No. That would be the criminal charge of "Hate crime". I'm talking about something else which wastes thousands of hours of police time a year. Feel free to Google "non-crime hate incidents". I've only ever seen transphobes pushing this line because they don't like being reported for hate crimes. Never seen it in normal discourse before. The public can't be expected to know when something is a hate crime or just borders on such, and reports are an important part of documenting patterns which then constitute a crime (often harassment). Its especially important for victims of harassment to know they can contact the police and record incidents without worrying whether or not they're crimes. It's already a barrier for e.g. women to report incidents because, individually, they don't constitute a crime and they think the police will just chalk them up as timewasters. It's seen often in the stories of people who then have quite horrific crimes committed against them. Please don't push dangerous ideas like this. I hope anyone reading this feels empowered to raise reports to the police, and these reports are an important part of identifying dangerous people. It's not the fault of victims that the police are underfunded. "Dangerous idea"? That the Court of Appeal agreed with in December 2021 and decreed that non-crime hate incidents should no longer be recorded. Are you now calling me a trans phobe for saying that completely pointless records of non-crimes shouldn't be recorded? The police ARE underfunded. And because of that I think they should focus on actual crimes which affect people. Including hate crimes, of course. Which will result in convictions and consequences for perpetrators. " The police should take the time to investigate and record every detail of everyone’s life that upsets them. That’s what they’re for. To make a record of that guy at costa that looked at me weird. And if you don’t agree your all the phobes | |||
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"I think they've got priorities wrong and spending too much time, money and resources on non-crime hate incidents. With fewer resources since the Tories took office - the police needs to focus on actual crime. Not wrong think. "Under the police’s “non-crime” guidance, anyone could report you for anything. 120,000 of these “hate incidents” were recorded between 2014 and 2019, an endless litany of — often utterly innocent — words and actions which were now officially classified as hateful." Its verbal abuse... No. That would be the criminal charge of "Hate crime". I'm talking about something else which wastes thousands of hours of police time a year. Feel free to Google "non-crime hate incidents". Not sure if you told me to Google it to prove what I said was right but here you go "What is a Hate Incident? A hate incident is any non-crime incident which is perceived by the victim or any other person to be motivated by hostility or prejudice based on a person's disability, race, religion, sexual orientation or gender identity or perceived disability, race, religion, sexual orientation or gender identity. Examples include: Verbal or online abuse, insults or harassment, such as taunting, offensive leaflets and posters, abusive gestures, dumping of rubbish outside homes or through letterboxes, and bullying at school or in the workplace.A hate incident doesn't mean that we won't take it seriously if someone reports it." Taken from the west Yorkshire police website. Have a good day" What will they do when someone records a hate incident? As it's a "non-crime"? | |||
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" "Dangerous idea"? That the Court of Appeal agreed with in December 2021 and decreed that non-crime hate incidents should no longer be recorded. Are you now calling me a trans phobe for saying that completely pointless records of non-crimes shouldn't be recorded? The police ARE underfunded. And because of that I think they should focus on actual crimes which affect people. Including hate crimes, of course. Which will result in convictions and consequences for perpetrators. " That’s ludicrous from the court of appeals. You’re definitely not a transphobe and don’t think that’s what was being said but I do think your point suggesting these things are pointless and shouldn’t be recorded. The way we are policing incidents of hate is absolutely pathetic in this country and completely downplays the effects of these things in humans. Sorry, actual crimes which affect people? I’m just going to agree to disagree with you on this one. | |||
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"Ah, Tom managing to blame government-driven police cuts on gay people. Yup, must be a Monday. He criticised the police for being performative. Not gay people. We know what game he was playing. "Then you know more than me. I took the words at face value. | |||
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"Point fingers at the police Point fingers at people we think are wasting police time with no crime hate whatever But don’t you dare point your finger at a government that has consistently stripped funding from the police. It’s not their fault. It’s everyone else’s Correct. Underfunded, under appreciated with poor training. Add on poor pay, no wonder people don't want to be a copper "The ones that do become cops are those that seek a power trip on a daily basis, whilst accepting they are disliked by everyone but when we need them. | |||
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"No. That would be the criminal charge of "Hate crime". I'm talking about something else which wastes thousands of hours of police time a year. Feel free to Google "non-crime hate incidents". I've only ever seen transphobes pushing this line because they don't like being reported for hate crimes. Never seen it in normal discourse before. The public can't be expected to know when something is a hate crime or just borders on such, and reports are an important part of documenting patterns which then constitute a crime (often harassment). Its especially important for victims of harassment to know they can contact the police and record incidents without worrying whether or not they're crimes. It's already a barrier for e.g. women to report incidents because, individually, they don't constitute a crime and they think the police will just chalk them up as timewasters. It's seen often in the stories of people who then have quite horrific crimes committed against them. Please don't push dangerous ideas like this. I hope anyone reading this feels empowered to raise reports to the police, and these reports are an important part of identifying dangerous people. It's not the fault of victims that the police are underfunded. "Dangerous idea"? That the Court of Appeal agreed with in December 2021 and decreed that non-crime hate incidents should no longer be recorded. Are you now calling me a trans phobe for saying that completely pointless records of non-crimes shouldn't be recorded? The police ARE underfunded. And because of that I think they should focus on actual crimes which affect people. Including hate crimes, of course. Which will result in convictions and consequences for perpetrators. The police should take the time to investigate and record every detail of everyone’s life that upsets them. That’s what they’re for. To make a record of that guy at costa that looked at me weird. And if you don’t agree your all the phobes " You cannot be Serious? It’s even defined above and urs definitely more than someone looking you weird. | |||
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"Point fingers at the police Point fingers at people we think are wasting police time with no crime hate whatever But don’t you dare point your finger at a government that has consistently stripped funding from the police. It’s not their fault. It’s everyone else’s " Are we finally agreeing on something | |||
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"They're too busy strip searching teenage girls for , based on nothing but the colour of their skin. The cuts to police numbers are clearly part of the issue. However, I'm not sure more of a bad thing is good. Maybe it would help if they had targets like: "respond to crimes involving a white suspect as quickly as you do when the suspect is a person of colour"! Thanks to the new policing bill, things have just gotten worse for those wrongly targeted by policing." In what way? I've not read up on this - just the anti-protesting section. | |||
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"Point fingers at the police Point fingers at people we think are wasting police time with no crime hate whatever But don’t you dare point your finger at a government that has consistently stripped funding from the police. It’s not their fault. It’s everyone else’s Correct. Underfunded, under appreciated with poor training. Add on poor pay, no wonder people don't want to be a copper
The ones that do become cops are those that seek a power trip on a daily basis, whilst accepting they are disliked by everyone but when we need them."And lots of racists and misogynists. | |||
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"Point fingers at the police Point fingers at people we think are wasting police time with no crime hate whatever But don’t you dare point your finger at a government that has consistently stripped funding from the police. It’s not their fault. It’s everyone else’s Are we finally agreeing on something "I’ve changed my opinion. Fuck the popo | |||
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" "Dangerous idea"? That the Court of Appeal agreed with in December 2021 and decreed that non-crime hate incidents should no longer be recorded. Are you now calling me a trans phobe for saying that completely pointless records of non-crimes shouldn't be recorded? The police ARE underfunded. And because of that I think they should focus on actual crimes which affect people. Including hate crimes, of course. Which will result in convictions and consequences for perpetrators. That’s ludicrous from the court of appeals. You’re definitely not a transphobe and don’t think that’s what was being said but I do think your point suggesting these things are pointless and shouldn’t be recorded. The way we are policing incidents of hate is absolutely pathetic in this country and completely downplays the effects of these things in humans. Sorry, actual crimes which affect people? I’m just going to agree to disagree with you on this one. " I think hate CRIME should be policed much better than it is. I just see no point in recording incidents which the police are toothless to do anything about. And from what I've read, they also don't have the resources to analyse the data and act on it. With scarce resources thanks to the Tories - I think they should use them better. So that response times can improve. So that hate crime is addressed. So that r@pe convictions go up. And thank you. | |||
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" "Dangerous idea"? That the Court of Appeal agreed with in December 2021 and decreed that non-crime hate incidents should no longer be recorded. Are you now calling me a trans phobe for saying that completely pointless records of non-crimes shouldn't be recorded? The police ARE underfunded. And because of that I think they should focus on actual crimes which affect people. Including hate crimes, of course. Which will result in convictions and consequences for perpetrators. That’s ludicrous from the court of appeals. You’re definitely not a transphobe and don’t think that’s what was being said but I do think your point suggesting these things are pointless and shouldn’t be recorded. The way we are policing incidents of hate is absolutely pathetic in this country and completely downplays the effects of these things in humans. Sorry, actual crimes which affect people? I’m just going to agree to disagree with you on this one. " In trying to understand the ruling it looks like one of trying to get the balance right "The judge held that perception-based recording of non-crime incidents is not ‘per se unlawful’, but said that ‘some additional safeguards should be put in place so that the incursion into freedom of expression is no more than is strictly necessary’." It looks like I could say that a fab profile saying "BBC only" is a hate incident, and because I perceive it that way, it is. | |||
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"Please don't push dangerous ideas like this. I hope anyone reading this feels empowered to raise reports to the police, and these reports are an important part of identifying dangerous people. It's not the fault of victims that the police are underfunded. "Dangerous idea"? That the Court of Appeal agreed with in December 2021 and decreed that non-crime hate incidents should no longer be recorded. Are you now calling me a trans phobe for saying that completely pointless records of non-crimes shouldn't be recorded? The police ARE underfunded. And because of that I think they should focus on actual crimes which affect people. Including hate crimes, of course. Which will result in convictions and consequences for perpetrators. " The case you refer to is that of a prominent transphobe, who didn't like being reported for transphobic comments. Most of his complaints were rejected; the "win" was specifically on recording the words "non-crime hate incident" (they now simply use different wording). I didn't call you a transphobe. I don't know you. I know that this is a line pushed primarily by transphobes (who also seem to have that court ruling around to misinterpret). I don't know why you think what you do. Regardless, discouraging people from reporting incidents is a bad thing: it isn't considered a problem by the police, it isn't a cause of poor response times, and by pushing the narrative you discourage victims from seeking the support they need. | |||
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"As an ex police officer with 17 years service before i was retired on ill health as a result of having my left arm rendered almost useless for anything but the lightest of tasks due to a knife attack from someone (aged 16) who i should have searched but didnt due to being scared to death of being branded the R word. I know why the police response times have dropped; they are dealing with so many pointless minor moans about things that social services and councils should deal with but cant (due to lack of staff), and filling in a million forms that the bosses say they have to fill in to defend claims various types (have you ever seen how long it takes to fill in a search form if you do it right), there are less front line officers, those that are there are older due to the retirement age being pushed up again and again. Some (not all) response drivers are scared to death of speeding to jobs in case someone alleges that were driving dangerously even if they were not. I still talk to ex colleagues who still serve and moral is at the lowest ever, they have no backing from the public (in some cases deserved i agree), no backing from chief constables and less from crime commissioners and politicians who are all typical politicians, saying what they think people want to hear. The people of this country get a better service than a lot of countries from their cops (live in France or Spain and you will see that). Not every cop is good or great, most are good enough and some are bloody awful - A bit like every other job really, but most i have met do the best they can, and i mean MOST not ALL." You didn't do your job properly cause you were scared of being called racist? | |||
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"As an ex police officer with 17 years service before i was retired on ill health as a result of having my left arm rendered almost useless for anything but the lightest of tasks due to a knife attack from someone (aged 16) who i should have searched but didnt due to being scared to death of being branded the R word. I know why the police response times have dropped; they are dealing with so many pointless minor moans about things that social services and councils should deal with but cant (due to lack of staff), and filling in a million forms that the bosses say they have to fill in to defend claims various types (have you ever seen how long it takes to fill in a search form if you do it right), there are less front line officers, those that are there are older due to the retirement age being pushed up again and again. Some (not all) response drivers are scared to death of speeding to jobs in case someone alleges that were driving dangerously even if they were not. I still talk to ex colleagues who still serve and moral is at the lowest ever, they have no backing from the public (in some cases deserved i agree), no backing from chief constables and less from crime commissioners and politicians who are all typical politicians, saying what they think people want to hear. The people of this country get a better service than a lot of countries from their cops (live in France or Spain and you will see that). Not every cop is good or great, most are good enough and some are bloody awful - A bit like every other job really, but most i have met do the best they can, and i mean MOST not ALL. You didn't do your job properly cause you were scared of being called racist?" Is that a surprise to you? I feel like police are dammed if they do damned if they don’t | |||
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"As an ex police officer with 17 years service before i was retired on ill health as a result of having my left arm rendered almost useless for anything but the lightest of tasks due to a knife attack from someone (aged 16) who i should have searched but didnt due to being scared to death of being branded the R word. I know why the police response times have dropped; they are dealing with so many pointless minor moans about things that social services and councils should deal with but cant (due to lack of staff), and filling in a million forms that the bosses say they have to fill in to defend claims various types (have you ever seen how long it takes to fill in a search form if you do it right), there are less front line officers, those that are there are older due to the retirement age being pushed up again and again. Some (not all) response drivers are scared to death of speeding to jobs in case someone alleges that were driving dangerously even if they were not. I still talk to ex colleagues who still serve and moral is at the lowest ever, they have no backing from the public (in some cases deserved i agree), no backing from chief constables and less from crime commissioners and politicians who are all typical politicians, saying what they think people want to hear. The people of this country get a better service than a lot of countries from their cops (live in France or Spain and you will see that). Not every cop is good or great, most are good enough and some are bloody awful - A bit like every other job really, but most i have met do the best they can, and i mean MOST not ALL." Thank you for your balanced view. I believe this Tory government has given the police more powers then ever. I don’t agree to the level of powers taken from the public. | |||
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"Please don't push dangerous ideas like this. I hope anyone reading this feels empowered to raise reports to the police, and these reports are an important part of identifying dangerous people. It's not the fault of victims that the police are underfunded. "Dangerous idea"? That the Court of Appeal agreed with in December 2021 and decreed that non-crime hate incidents should no longer be recorded. Are you now calling me a trans phobe for saying that completely pointless records of non-crimes shouldn't be recorded? The police ARE underfunded. And because of that I think they should focus on actual crimes which affect people. Including hate crimes, of course. Which will result in convictions and consequences for perpetrators. The case you refer to is that of a prominent transphobe, who didn't like being reported for transphobic comments. Most of his complaints were rejected; the "win" was specifically on recording the words "non-crime hate incident" (they now simply use different wording). I didn't call you a transphobe. I don't know you. I know that this is a line pushed primarily by transphobes (who also seem to have that court ruling around to misinterpret). I don't know why you think what you do. Regardless, discouraging people from reporting incidents is a bad thing: it isn't considered a problem by the police, it isn't a cause of poor response times, and by pushing the narrative you discourage victims from seeking the support they need." In terms of the Harry Miller case, I don't follow your analysis of it. This is the BBC report on the result. "The Court of Appeal said national rules set by the College of Policing had placed too much emphasis on the perception of transphobic hostility, despite no evidence recorded by police. Dame Victoria Sharp, one of England's most senior judges, said: "The net for 'non-crime hate speech' is an exceptionally wide one which is designed to capture speech which is perceived to be motivated by hostility... regardless of whether there is evidence that the speech is motivated by such hostility. "The volume of non-crime hate speech is enormous and the police do not have the resources or the capacity to investigate all the complaints that are made. "There is nothing in the guidance about excluding irrational complaints, including those where there is no evidence of hostility and little, if anything, to address the chilling effect which this may have on the legitimate exercise of freedom of expression." I haven't seen anywhere that he didn't "win" the rest of the case. But my point was really about the limited value of non-crime hate incidents as they stand. The College of Policing is yet to update its guidance. Harry Miller isn't a likeable character at all, he seems to rant a lot. But I think that Humberside Police were ridiculous to warn him for wrongthink for merely retweeting an unpleasant tweet. That is not policing in my opinion. That case stood out to me because it's my police force and reported locally. I wasn't discouraging people from doing anything - I was commenting on the strategic priorities of the police. And my opinion is that non-crime hate incidents are pointless. And a Court of Appeal judge agrees with me. | |||
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"For the benefit of the perpetually offended.. Tom highlighted the fact that when the Chief if Police has limited resources and a poor response and detection rate he decides to bubble wrap cars to attend Pride events. No. Get your cars and your policemen on the beat where they are needed.. For the record, Tom is not gay but he is a cocksucker.. " The Police have a very poor record of homophobia and even now, Google it and you’ll see how UK cops fail to police homophonic crime and investigations. So I’m sorry if some people think Police Chiefs attending an annual Pride event in their town and putting up a few flags is upsetting. When we know Cops have a long way to go before they can gain the trust of minority groups . So if anyone is perpetually offended, you need to look in the mirror perhaps lol . | |||
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"All the people that constantly slate the Police/response times and lack of officers. I seriously hope that if a day ever comes that you or your family needs them, you don't bother calling 999 with all the hatred some people seem to have against them and deal with any issues yourself. Then see how your views change when you get arrested "Fixed that for you. | |||
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"For the benefit of the perpetually offended.. Tom highlighted the fact that when the Chief if Police has limited resources and a poor response and detection rate he decides to bubble wrap cars to attend Pride events. No. Get your cars and your policemen on the beat where they are needed.. For the record, Tom is not gay but he is a cocksucker.. The Police have a very poor record of homophobia and even now, Google it and you’ll see how UK cops fail to police homophonic crime and investigations. So I’m sorry if some people think Police Chiefs attending an annual Pride event in their town and putting up a few flags is upsetting. When we know Cops have a long way to go before they can gain the trust of minority groups . So if anyone is perpetually offended, you need to look in the mirror perhaps lol . " One thing Tom is not is perpetually offended. His observations and diarys may be like those of Samuel Pepys in years to come. His mirror is sometimes concave and sometimes convex like a circus mirror.. and he can see through the smoke and mirrors and he has the vision.. Wake Up Peoples... | |||
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"Investigations into police conduct tend to come up with the same conclusions - policing as an institution is plagues with corruption, misogyny and racism. Honophobia is also a recurrent theme hence occasionally police forces indulge in the sort of superficial rainbow PR mentioned. We have a history of policing by consent and many sections of society are questioning the provision of that consent given overreach of powers and poor relations and treatment of those communities. We need to gave some harsh relatives and reassess how we want police forces to operate, because at the moment recruitment and training standards are abysmal, internal discipline and scrutiny of conduct is woeful, and police resources are deployed too often in areas where the police are often the worst qualified people to attend. It's not as simple as just throwing money at the problem." What do you think might be the solution, Malice? I don't know - everything I read makes me very concerned for the future of the criminal justice system in the UK. And that affects us all. | |||
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"I haven't seen anywhere that he didn't "win" the rest of the case. But my point was really about the limited value of non-crime hate incidents as they stand. The College of Policing is yet to update its guidance. Harry Miller isn't a likeable character at all, he seems to rant a lot. But I think that Humberside Police were ridiculous to warn him for wrongthink for merely retweeting an unpleasant tweet. That is not policing in my opinion. That case stood out to me because it's my police force and reported locally. I wasn't discouraging people from doing anything - I was commenting on the strategic priorities of the police. And my opinion is that non-crime hate incidents are pointless. And a Court of Appeal judge agrees with me." The judgement is available online for you to read yourself, and if you're so interested in the case then I recommend you do. Three of the five appeal grounds were dismissed, and the College of Policing have provided advice to officers based on it (again, it's available online). Ironically, this incident has put cis women in more danger - since they're the primary victims of hate crimes (by number of crimes reported) and the police have a few extra hoops to jump through before recording the data they use to identify patterns of behaviour. But then transphobes like Harry Miller don't actually care about cis women either. Of course, this actually adds to the burden police officers have in their day-to-day duties (by ensuring they don't fall foul of this new ruling). The only thing that would lower them is less reporting. Do you accept that? If not, which groups specifically do you think should report potential hate crimes against them less often? | |||
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"As an ex police officer with 17 years service before i was retired on ill health as a result of having my left arm rendered almost useless for anything but the lightest of tasks due to a knife attack from someone (aged 16) who i should have searched but didnt due to being scared to death of being branded the R word. I know why the police response times have dropped; they are dealing with so many pointless minor moans about things that social services and councils should deal with but cant (due to lack of staff), and filling in a million forms that the bosses say they have to fill in to defend claims various types (have you ever seen how long it takes to fill in a search form if you do it right), there are less front line officers, those that are there are older due to the retirement age being pushed up again and again. Some (not all) response drivers are scared to death of speeding to jobs in case someone alleges that were driving dangerously even if they were not. I still talk to ex colleagues who still serve and moral is at the lowest ever, they have no backing from the public (in some cases deserved i agree), no backing from chief constables and less from crime commissioners and politicians who are all typical politicians, saying what they think people want to hear. The people of this country get a better service than a lot of countries from their cops (live in France or Spain and you will see that). Not every cop is good or great, most are good enough and some are bloody awful - A bit like every other job really, but most i have met do the best they can, and i mean MOST not ALL. You didn't do your job properly cause you were scared of being called racist? Is that a surprise to you? I feel like police are dammed if they do damned if they don’t" No its not, basically I gave the lad the benefit of the doubt, and will regret it for the rest of my days. Did I have power to search him legally - yes, probably but not 100% certain so I didn't ! he was charged with Section 18 wounding, CPS took a plea to section 20 and he got a suspended sentence. That didn't surprise me either. | |||
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"Investigations into police conduct tend to come up with the same conclusions - policing as an institution is plagues with corruption, misogyny and racism. Honophobia is also a recurrent theme hence occasionally police forces indulge in the sort of superficial rainbow PR mentioned. We have a history of policing by consent and many sections of society are questioning the provision of that consent given overreach of powers and poor relations and treatment of those communities. We need to gave some harsh relatives and reassess how we want police forces to operate, because at the moment recruitment and training standards are abysmal, internal discipline and scrutiny of conduct is woeful, and police resources are deployed too often in areas where the police are often the worst qualified people to attend. It's not as simple as just throwing money at the problem. What do you think might be the solution, Malice? I don't know - everything I read makes me very concerned for the future of the criminal justice system in the UK. And that affects us all. "I don't know the complete answer but I certainly think we need to prioritise community schemes that would head off some problems before they reached the justice system. Mental health crises are no business of the police and the figures are appalling in this regard. So, more funding for mental health work, less reliance on police intervention and sectioning, community policing and partnerships rather than untargetted stop and search for example, youth project funding, decriminalisation of drugs and focus on drug/addiction treatment,and above all social justice support and tackling of inequity. Anyone who is data lead and working at the coal face of any of above would tell you how much more effective would be but our policy is made people who are anti tax and are so insulated from any of these issues that they have no vested interest in anything other than that which appeals to their voting heartland, who just repeat a 'build more prisons and tougher sentences' mantra. | |||
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"I haven't seen anywhere that he didn't "win" the rest of the case. But my point was really about the limited value of non-crime hate incidents as they stand. The College of Policing is yet to update its guidance. Harry Miller isn't a likeable character at all, he seems to rant a lot. But I think that Humberside Police were ridiculous to warn him for wrongthink for merely retweeting an unpleasant tweet. That is not policing in my opinion. That case stood out to me because it's my police force and reported locally. I wasn't discouraging people from doing anything - I was commenting on the strategic priorities of the police. And my opinion is that non-crime hate incidents are pointless. And a Court of Appeal judge agrees with me. The judgement is available online for you to read yourself, and if you're so interested in the case then I recommend you do. Three of the five appeal grounds were dismissed, and the College of Policing have provided advice to officers based on it (again, it's available online). Ironically, this incident has put cis women in more danger - since they're the primary victims of hate crimes (by number of crimes reported) and the police have a few extra hoops to jump through before recording the data they use to identify patterns of behaviour. But then transphobes like Harry Miller don't actually care about cis women either. Of course, this actually adds to the burden police officers have in their day-to-day duties (by ensuring they don't fall foul of this new ruling). The only thing that would lower them is less reporting. Do you accept that? If not, which groups specifically do you think should report potential hate crimes against them less often?" I haven't read the judgment (obviously!) just all of the news reports and Twitter commentary. But the Judge said that the data collected from recording the incidents wasn't being analysed so - something needed to change to make the recording worthwhile. And for the incidents recorded to be genuinely hostile rather than provocative or contraversial views. I've read the guidance to officers now. It seems quite sensible IMO. Hopefully this means fewer incidents are recorded and they're actually precedents to crime and support a pattern of criminality - that they're useful. Your question about hate crimes isn't relevant as they're not affected by this ruling? I also found it deeply worrying that non-crime hate incidents could be recorded against someone and they weren't notified. But they would come up in a DBS check. So someone could take offence to a tweet that I retweet, report me and the police then record it which stays on my record for 2 years I think? | |||
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"As an ex police officer with 17 years service before i was retired on ill health as a result of having my left arm rendered almost useless for anything but the lightest of tasks due to a knife attack from someone (aged 16) who i should have searched but didnt due to being scared to death of being branded the R word. I know why the police response times have dropped; they are dealing with so many pointless minor moans about things that social services and councils should deal with but cant (due to lack of staff), and filling in a million forms that the bosses say they have to fill in to defend claims various types (have you ever seen how long it takes to fill in a search form if you do it right), there are less front line officers, those that are there are older due to the retirement age being pushed up again and again. Some (not all) response drivers are scared to death of speeding to jobs in case someone alleges that were driving dangerously even if they were not. I still talk to ex colleagues who still serve and moral is at the lowest ever, they have no backing from the public (in some cases deserved i agree), no backing from chief constables and less from crime commissioners and politicians who are all typical politicians, saying what they think people want to hear. The people of this country get a better service than a lot of countries from their cops (live in France or Spain and you will see that). Not every cop is good or great, most are good enough and some are bloody awful - A bit like every other job really, but most i have met do the best they can, and i mean MOST not ALL. You didn't do your job properly cause you were scared of being called racist? Is that a surprise to you? I feel like police are dammed if they do damned if they don’t" Yes it is If you're not racist then you don't need to worry about being called racist for doing your job properly | |||
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"As an ex police officer with 17 years service before i was retired on ill health as a result of having my left arm rendered almost useless for anything but the lightest of tasks due to a knife attack from someone (aged 16) who i should have searched but didnt due to being scared to death of being branded the R word. I know why the police response times have dropped; they are dealing with so many pointless minor moans about things that social services and councils should deal with but cant (due to lack of staff), and filling in a million forms that the bosses say they have to fill in to defend claims various types (have you ever seen how long it takes to fill in a search form if you do it right), there are less front line officers, those that are there are older due to the retirement age being pushed up again and again. Some (not all) response drivers are scared to death of speeding to jobs in case someone alleges that were driving dangerously even if they were not. I still talk to ex colleagues who still serve and moral is at the lowest ever, they have no backing from the public (in some cases deserved i agree), no backing from chief constables and less from crime commissioners and politicians who are all typical politicians, saying what they think people want to hear. The people of this country get a better service than a lot of countries from their cops (live in France or Spain and you will see that). Not every cop is good or great, most are good enough and some are bloody awful - A bit like every other job really, but most i have met do the best they can, and i mean MOST not ALL. You didn't do your job properly cause you were scared of being called racist?" That one thing is what you took away from that? Who the feck would want to be a policeman in this day and age. The middle men and women in someone else's silly games. Winston | |||
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"They should make better allowances for people to defend themselves and their homes/property with force. It's going to be necessary like it or not as the Police clearly aren't going to do anything but regress as a service." That assumes that you are more capable in a fight than they are... in reality, most criminal types are more comfortable with violence than the average victim, and faced with the prospects of arrest more motivated. In many cases tackling an intruder will lead to a worse outcome for the victim. Cal | |||
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"As an ex police officer with 17 years service before i was retired on ill health as a result of having my left arm rendered almost useless for anything but the lightest of tasks due to a knife attack from someone (aged 16) who i should have searched but didnt due to being scared to death of being branded the R word. I know why the police response times have dropped; they are dealing with so many pointless minor moans about things that social services and councils should deal with but cant (due to lack of staff), and filling in a million forms that the bosses say they have to fill in to defend claims various types (have you ever seen how long it takes to fill in a search form if you do it right), there are less front line officers, those that are there are older due to the retirement age being pushed up again and again. Some (not all) response drivers are scared to death of speeding to jobs in case someone alleges that were driving dangerously even if they were not. I still talk to ex colleagues who still serve and moral is at the lowest ever, they have no backing from the public (in some cases deserved i agree), no backing from chief constables and less from crime commissioners and politicians who are all typical politicians, saying what they think people want to hear. The people of this country get a better service than a lot of countries from their cops (live in France or Spain and you will see that). Not every cop is good or great, most are good enough and some are bloody awful - A bit like every other job really, but most i have met do the best they can, and i mean MOST not ALL. You didn't do your job properly cause you were scared of being called racist? Is that a surprise to you? I feel like police are dammed if they do damned if they don’t Yes it is If you're not racist then you don't need to worry about being called racist for doing your job properly " I think that's an incredibly naive viewpoint...... Winston | |||
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"As an ex police officer with 17 years service before i was retired on ill health as a result of having my left arm rendered almost useless for anything but the lightest of tasks due to a knife attack from someone (aged 16) who i should have searched but didnt due to being scared to death of being branded the R word. I know why the police response times have dropped; they are dealing with so many pointless minor moans about things that social services and councils should deal with but cant (due to lack of staff), and filling in a million forms that the bosses say they have to fill in to defend claims various types (have you ever seen how long it takes to fill in a search form if you do it right), there are less front line officers, those that are there are older due to the retirement age being pushed up again and again. Some (not all) response drivers are scared to death of speeding to jobs in case someone alleges that were driving dangerously even if they were not. I still talk to ex colleagues who still serve and moral is at the lowest ever, they have no backing from the public (in some cases deserved i agree), no backing from chief constables and less from crime commissioners and politicians who are all typical politicians, saying what they think people want to hear. The people of this country get a better service than a lot of countries from their cops (live in France or Spain and you will see that). Not every cop is good or great, most are good enough and some are bloody awful - A bit like every other job really, but most i have met do the best they can, and i mean MOST not ALL. You didn't do your job properly cause you were scared of being called racist? Is that a surprise to you? I feel like police are dammed if they do damned if they don’t Yes it is If you're not racist then you don't need to worry about being called racist for doing your job properly I think that's an incredibly naive viewpoint...... Winston" Ok You have your opinion and I have mine | |||
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"As an ex police officer with 17 years service before i was retired on ill health as a result of having my left arm rendered almost useless for anything but the lightest of tasks due to a knife attack from someone (aged 16) who i should have searched but didnt due to being scared to death of being branded the R word. I know why the police response times have dropped; they are dealing with so many pointless minor moans about things that social services and councils should deal with but cant (due to lack of staff), and filling in a million forms that the bosses say they have to fill in to defend claims various types (have you ever seen how long it takes to fill in a search form if you do it right), there are less front line officers, those that are there are older due to the retirement age being pushed up again and again. Some (not all) response drivers are scared to death of speeding to jobs in case someone alleges that were driving dangerously even if they were not. I still talk to ex colleagues who still serve and moral is at the lowest ever, they have no backing from the public (in some cases deserved i agree), no backing from chief constables and less from crime commissioners and politicians who are all typical politicians, saying what they think people want to hear. The people of this country get a better service than a lot of countries from their cops (live in France or Spain and you will see that). Not every cop is good or great, most are good enough and some are bloody awful - A bit like every other job really, but most i have met do the best they can, and i mean MOST not ALL. You didn't do your job properly cause you were scared of being called racist? That one thing is what you took away from that? Who the feck would want to be a policeman in this day and age. The middle men and women in someone else's silly games. Winston" My thoughts exactly Winston. I have friends and family in the police force and the comments on this thread are making my blood boil more than any other has. I have been biting my tongue reading this so much it’s almost bleeding. I will continued to bite it I think | |||
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"Investigations into police conduct tend to come up with the same conclusions - policing as an institution is plagues with corruption, misogyny and racism. Honophobia is also a recurrent theme hence occasionally police forces indulge in the sort of superficial rainbow PR mentioned. We have a history of policing by consent and many sections of society are questioning the provision of that consent given overreach of powers and poor relations and treatment of those communities. We need to gave some harsh relatives and reassess how we want police forces to operate, because at the moment recruitment and training standards are abysmal, internal discipline and scrutiny of conduct is woeful, and police resources are deployed too often in areas where the police are often the worst qualified people to attend. It's not as simple as just throwing money at the problem. What do you think might be the solution, Malice? I don't know - everything I read makes me very concerned for the future of the criminal justice system in the UK. And that affects us all.
I don't know the complete answer but I certainly think we need to prioritise community schemes that would head off some problems before they reached the justice system. Mental health crises are no business of the police and the figures are appalling in this regard.
So, more funding for mental health work, less reliance on police intervention and sectioning, community policing and partnerships rather than untargetted stop and search for example, youth project funding, decriminalisation
of drugs and focus on drug/addiction treatment,and above all social justice support and tackling of inequity.
Anyone who is data lead and working at the coal face of any of above would tell you how much more effective would be but our policy is made people who are anti tax and are so insulated from any of these issues that they have no vested interest in anything other than that which appeals to their voting heartland, who just repeat a 'build more prisons and tougher sentences' mantra."That's a really thoughtful answer. Thank you. | |||
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"I haven't seen anywhere that he didn't "win" the rest of the case. But my point was really about the limited value of non-crime hate incidents as they stand. The College of Policing is yet to update its guidance. Harry Miller isn't a likeable character at all, he seems to rant a lot. But I think that Humberside Police were ridiculous to warn him for wrongthink for merely retweeting an unpleasant tweet. That is not policing in my opinion. That case stood out to me because it's my police force and reported locally. I wasn't discouraging people from doing anything - I was commenting on the strategic priorities of the police. And my opinion is that non-crime hate incidents are pointless. And a Court of Appeal judge agrees with me. The judgement is available online for you to read yourself, and if you're so interested in the case then I recommend you do. Three of the five appeal grounds were dismissed, and the College of Policing have provided advice to officers based on it (again, it's available online). Ironically, this incident has put cis women in more danger - since they're the primary victims of hate crimes (by number of crimes reported) and the police have a few extra hoops to jump through before recording the data they use to identify patterns of behaviour. But then transphobes like Harry Miller don't actually care about cis women either. Of course, this actually adds to the burden police officers have in their day-to-day duties (by ensuring they don't fall foul of this new ruling). The only thing that would lower them is less reporting. Do you accept that? If not, which groups specifically do you think should report potential hate crimes against them less often? I haven't read the judgment (obviously!) just all of the news reports and Twitter commentary. But the Judge said that the data collected from recording the incidents wasn't being analysed so - something needed to change to make the recording worthwhile. And for the incidents recorded to be genuinely hostile rather than provocative or contraversial views. I've read the guidance to officers now. It seems quite sensible IMO. Hopefully this means fewer incidents are recorded and they're actually precedents to crime and support a pattern of criminality - that they're useful. Your question about hate crimes isn't relevant as they're not affected by this ruling? I also found it deeply worrying that non-crime hate incidents could be recorded against someone and they weren't notified. But they would come up in a DBS check. So someone could take offence to a tweet that I retweet, report me and the police then record it which stays on my record for 2 years I think? " The link I read early said that those kind of things don't show up on a dbs check I think Let me double check | |||
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"I dislike the police but am still aware I will no doubt need them at some point in my life. I’ve been strip searched, had my mothers house raided, thrown in a cell overnight and made to do an identity parade and wasn’t charged for any of them. I don’t know why I was targeted but I can guess. The police need a massive overhaul from top to bottom. " I've had mostly positive experiences with the police, I've come across my fair share of twits but I'm pretty sure they're like that with most people not just me specifically That being said some of the reports I read online about things they have done really do make me
I don't think all police are bad, but I do think that some bad people do become police officers because they think it will help them get away with doing bad bad stuff | |||
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"As an ex police officer with 17 years service before i was retired on ill health as a result of having my left arm rendered almost useless for anything but the lightest of tasks due to a knife attack from someone (aged 16) who i should have searched but didnt due to being scared to death of being branded the R word. I know why the police response times have dropped; they are dealing with so many pointless minor moans about things that social services and councils should deal with but cant (due to lack of staff), and filling in a million forms that the bosses say they have to fill in to defend claims various types (have you ever seen how long it takes to fill in a search form if you do it right), there are less front line officers, those that are there are older due to the retirement age being pushed up again and again. Some (not all) response drivers are scared to death of speeding to jobs in case someone alleges that were driving dangerously even if they were not. I still talk to ex colleagues who still serve and moral is at the lowest ever, they have no backing from the public (in some cases deserved i agree), no backing from chief constables and less from crime commissioners and politicians who are all typical politicians, saying what they think people want to hear. The people of this country get a better service than a lot of countries from their cops (live in France or Spain and you will see that). Not every cop is good or great, most are good enough and some are bloody awful - A bit like every other job really, but most i have met do the best they can, and i mean MOST not ALL. You didn't do your job properly cause you were scared of being called racist? That one thing is what you took away from that? Who the feck would want to be a policeman in this day and age. The middle men and women in someone else's silly games. Winston My thoughts exactly Winston. I have friends and family in the police force and the comments on this thread are making my blood boil more than any other has. I have been biting my tongue reading this so much it’s almost bleeding. I will continued to bite it I think "
I too have family members in the police and some of the comments are vile | |||
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"As an ex police officer with 17 years service before i was retired on ill health as a result of having my left arm rendered almost useless for anything but the lightest of tasks due to a knife attack from someone (aged 16) who i should have searched but didnt due to being scared to death of being branded the R word. I know why the police response times have dropped; they are dealing with so many pointless minor moans about things that social services and councils should deal with but cant (due to lack of staff), and filling in a million forms that the bosses say they have to fill in to defend claims various types (have you ever seen how long it takes to fill in a search form if you do it right), there are less front line officers, those that are there are older due to the retirement age being pushed up again and again. Some (not all) response drivers are scared to death of speeding to jobs in case someone alleges that were driving dangerously even if they were not. I still talk to ex colleagues who still serve and moral is at the lowest ever, they have no backing from the public (in some cases deserved i agree), no backing from chief constables and less from crime commissioners and politicians who are all typical politicians, saying what they think people want to hear. The people of this country get a better service than a lot of countries from their cops (live in France or Spain and you will see that). Not every cop is good or great, most are good enough and some are bloody awful - A bit like every other job really, but most i have met do the best they can, and i mean MOST not ALL. You didn't do your job properly cause you were scared of being called racist? Is that a surprise to you? I feel like police are dammed if they do damned if they don’t Yes it is If you're not racist then you don't need to worry about being called racist for doing your job properly " That’s just silly and I think you have that view because you don’t know what it’s like being the white police officer getting called racist for even looking at someone that’s not white. Very silly, naive and frankly, idiotic opinion to have. | |||
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"Police are scum " Wow. Some of you people disgust me | |||
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"As an ex police officer with 17 years service before i was retired on ill health as a result of having my left arm rendered almost useless for anything but the lightest of tasks due to a knife attack from someone (aged 16) who i should have searched but didnt due to being scared to death of being branded the R word. I know why the police response times have dropped; they are dealing with so many pointless minor moans about things that social services and councils should deal with but cant (due to lack of staff), and filling in a million forms that the bosses say they have to fill in to defend claims various types (have you ever seen how long it takes to fill in a search form if you do it right), there are less front line officers, those that are there are older due to the retirement age being pushed up again and again. Some (not all) response drivers are scared to death of speeding to jobs in case someone alleges that were driving dangerously even if they were not. I still talk to ex colleagues who still serve and moral is at the lowest ever, they have no backing from the public (in some cases deserved i agree), no backing from chief constables and less from crime commissioners and politicians who are all typical politicians, saying what they think people want to hear. The people of this country get a better service than a lot of countries from their cops (live in France or Spain and you will see that). Not every cop is good or great, most are good enough and some are bloody awful - A bit like every other job really, but most i have met do the best they can, and i mean MOST not ALL. You didn't do your job properly cause you were scared of being called racist? Is that a surprise to you? I feel like police are dammed if they do damned if they don’t Yes it is If you're not racist then you don't need to worry about being called racist for doing your job properly That’s just silly and I think you have that view because you don’t know what it’s like being the white police officer getting called racist for even looking at someone that’s not white. Very silly, naive and frankly, idiotic opinion to have. " Well we both have our fair share of 'idiotic' opinions so let's agree to disagree And you're right i don't know what it's like to be a white police officer but I figure that goes without saying. | |||
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"I haven't read the judgment (obviously!) just all of the news reports and Twitter commentary. But the Judge said that the data collected from recording the incidents wasn't being analysed so - something needed to change to make the recording worthwhile. And for the incidents recorded to be genuinely hostile rather than provocative or contraversial views. I've read the guidance to officers now. It seems quite sensible IMO. Hopefully this means fewer incidents are recorded and they're actually precedents to crime and support a pattern of criminality - that they're useful. Your question about hate crimes isn't relevant as they're not affected by this ruling? I also found it deeply worrying that non-crime hate incidents could be recorded against someone and they weren't notified. But they would come up in a DBS check. So someone could take offence to a tweet that I retweet, report me and the police then record it which stays on my record for 2 years I think? " The judge said no such thing, and police forces do analyse such data (both manually and through automated systems). Such reports also don't come up in a DBS check. This is a tiring level of ignorance for someone who is so insistent that they're right | |||
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"Police are scum " Do you genuinely believe that? Cause as someone said earlier if you were in need who would you call? Ghostbusters? | |||
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"As an ex police officer with 17 years service before i was retired on ill health as a result of having my left arm rendered almost useless for anything but the lightest of tasks due to a knife attack from someone (aged 16) who i should have searched but didnt due to being scared to death of being branded the R word. I know why the police response times have dropped; they are dealing with so many pointless minor moans about things that social services and councils should deal with but cant (due to lack of staff), and filling in a million forms that the bosses say they have to fill in to defend claims various types (have you ever seen how long it takes to fill in a search form if you do it right), there are less front line officers, those that are there are older due to the retirement age being pushed up again and again. Some (not all) response drivers are scared to death of speeding to jobs in case someone alleges that were driving dangerously even if they were not. I still talk to ex colleagues who still serve and moral is at the lowest ever, they have no backing from the public (in some cases deserved i agree), no backing from chief constables and less from crime commissioners and politicians who are all typical politicians, saying what they think people want to hear. The people of this country get a better service than a lot of countries from their cops (live in France or Spain and you will see that). Not every cop is good or great, most are good enough and some are bloody awful - A bit like every other job really, but most i have met do the best they can, and i mean MOST not ALL. You didn't do your job properly cause you were scared of being called racist? Is that a surprise to you? I feel like police are dammed if they do damned if they don’t Yes it is If you're not racist then you don't need to worry about being called racist for doing your job properly I think that's an incredibly naive viewpoint...... Winston Ok You have your opinion and I have mine" but what if it isn't if you are racist or not ... It's if someone believes you are or not ... And that can be an observer.... | |||
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"As an ex police officer with 17 years service before i was retired on ill health as a result of having my left arm rendered almost useless for anything but the lightest of tasks due to a knife attack from someone (aged 16) who i should have searched but didnt due to being scared to death of being branded the R word. I know why the police response times have dropped; they are dealing with so many pointless minor moans about things that social services and councils should deal with but cant (due to lack of staff), and filling in a million forms that the bosses say they have to fill in to defend claims various types (have you ever seen how long it takes to fill in a search form if you do it right), there are less front line officers, those that are there are older due to the retirement age being pushed up again and again. Some (not all) response drivers are scared to death of speeding to jobs in case someone alleges that were driving dangerously even if they were not. I still talk to ex colleagues who still serve and moral is at the lowest ever, they have no backing from the public (in some cases deserved i agree), no backing from chief constables and less from crime commissioners and politicians who are all typical politicians, saying what they think people want to hear. The people of this country get a better service than a lot of countries from their cops (live in France or Spain and you will see that). Not every cop is good or great, most are good enough and some are bloody awful - A bit like every other job really, but most i have met do the best they can, and i mean MOST not ALL. You didn't do your job properly cause you were scared of being called racist? Is that a surprise to you? I feel like police are dammed if they do damned if they don’t Yes it is If you're not racist then you don't need to worry about being called racist for doing your job properly That’s just silly and I think you have that view because you don’t know what it’s like being the white police officer getting called racist for even looking at someone that’s not white. Very silly, naive and frankly, idiotic opinion to have. Well we both have our fair share of 'idiotic' opinions so let's agree to disagree And you're right i don't know what it's like to be a white police officer but I figure that goes without saying." To put it in terms you might understand, imagine saying this to a minority person of colour “Well if your not a criminal you shouldn’t fear the police” | |||
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"I haven't read the judgment (obviously!) just all of the news reports and Twitter commentary. But the Judge said that the data collected from recording the incidents wasn't being analysed so - something needed to change to make the recording worthwhile. And for the incidents recorded to be genuinely hostile rather than provocative or contraversial views. I've read the guidance to officers now. It seems quite sensible IMO. Hopefully this means fewer incidents are recorded and they're actually precedents to crime and support a pattern of criminality - that they're useful. Your question about hate crimes isn't relevant as they're not affected by this ruling? I also found it deeply worrying that non-crime hate incidents could be recorded against someone and they weren't notified. But they would come up in a DBS check. So someone could take offence to a tweet that I retweet, report me and the police then record it which stays on my record for 2 years I think? The judge said no such thing, and police forces do analyse such data (both manually and through automated systems). Such reports also don't come up in a DBS check. This is a tiring level of ignorance for someone who is so insistent that they're right "They actually do on an enhanced DBS check | |||
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"Shows up on enhanced but not basic or standard "Basic and Standard DBS checks would not include information pertaining to non-crime hate reports, but the information may be considered during an Enhanced DBS check. "" I didn't even know there were three types! I don't know who needs enhanced ones but probably not me! | |||
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"Shows up on enhanced but not basic or standard "Basic and Standard DBS checks would not include information pertaining to non-crime hate reports, but the information may be considered during an Enhanced DBS check. " I didn't even know there were three types! I don't know who needs enhanced ones but probably not me!" I would guess people who work in healthcare, police or generally anyone who works with vulnerable people and/or children I have to have an enhanced one done yearly | |||
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"Police are scum Wow. Some of you people disgust me " | |||
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"Shows up on enhanced but not basic or standard "Basic and Standard DBS checks would not include information pertaining to non-crime hate reports, but the information may be considered during an Enhanced DBS check. " I didn't even know there were three types! I don't know who needs enhanced ones but probably not me!" Yeah mines enhanced. I think the basic/standard ones are for workmen working in schools/hospitals/care homes regularly etc. I know they do have to have them. | |||
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"I haven't read the judgment (obviously!) just all of the news reports and Twitter commentary. But the Judge said that the data collected from recording the incidents wasn't being analysed so - something needed to change to make the recording worthwhile. And for the incidents recorded to be genuinely hostile rather than provocative or contraversial views. I've read the guidance to officers now. It seems quite sensible IMO. Hopefully this means fewer incidents are recorded and they're actually precedents to crime and support a pattern of criminality - that they're useful. Your question about hate crimes isn't relevant as they're not affected by this ruling? I also found it deeply worrying that non-crime hate incidents could be recorded against someone and they weren't notified. But they would come up in a DBS check. So someone could take offence to a tweet that I retweet, report me and the police then record it which stays on my record for 2 years I think? The judge said no such thing, and police forces do analyse such data (both manually and through automated systems). Such reports also don't come up in a DBS check. This is a tiring level of ignorance for someone who is so insistent that they're right "The reports do come up in a DBS check as Tess has said. Yes I had misremembered the judge's statement. I have my opinions. You're also insistent on yours. | |||
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"I dislike the police but am still aware I will no doubt need them at some point in my life. I’ve been strip searched, had my mothers house raided, thrown in a cell overnight and made to do an identity parade and wasn’t charged for any of them. I don’t know why I was targeted but I can guess. The police need a massive overhaul from top to bottom. I've had mostly positive experiences with the police, I've come across my fair share of twits but I'm pretty sure they're like that with most people not just me specifically That being said some of the reports I read online about things they have done really do make me
I don't think all police are bad, but I do think that some bad people do become police officers because they think it will help them get away with doing bad bad stuff "Even reporting a crime I was treat like a suspect so my experiences haven’t been great. I will add on one occasion I was arrested which was my fault (too much to drink and being an idiot) a female officer was really nice. She even came and checked on me before the end of her shift and sat with me for about 10 minutes just having a laugh so they aren’t all bad. | |||
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"I haven't read the judgment (obviously!) just all of the news reports and Twitter commentary. But the Judge said that the data collected from recording the incidents wasn't being analysed so - something needed to change to make the recording worthwhile. And for the incidents recorded to be genuinely hostile rather than provocative or contraversial views. I've read the guidance to officers now. It seems quite sensible IMO. Hopefully this means fewer incidents are recorded and they're actually precedents to crime and support a pattern of criminality - that they're useful. Your question about hate crimes isn't relevant as they're not affected by this ruling? I also found it deeply worrying that non-crime hate incidents could be recorded against someone and they weren't notified. But they would come up in a DBS check. So someone could take offence to a tweet that I retweet, report me and the police then record it which stays on my record for 2 years I think? The judge said no such thing, and police forces do analyse such data (both manually and through automated systems). Such reports also don't come up in a DBS check. This is a tiring level of ignorance for someone who is so insistent that they're right
The reports do come up in a DBS check as Tess has said.
Yes I had misremembered the judge's statement. I have my opinions. You're also insistent on yours. "Fine, so very specifically you want to allow someone like Henry Miller to work with people that may be vulnerable to Henry Miller. And I believe that shouldn't be the case. You do have your opinions; you're very polite about them. | |||
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"I dislike the police but am still aware I will no doubt need them at some point in my life. I’ve been strip searched, had my mothers house raided, thrown in a cell overnight and made to do an identity parade and wasn’t charged for any of them. I don’t know why I was targeted but I can guess. The police need a massive overhaul from top to bottom. I've had mostly positive experiences with the police, I've come across my fair share of twits but I'm pretty sure they're like that with most people not just me specifically That being said some of the reports I read online about things they have done really do make me
I don't think all police are bad, but I do think that some bad people do become police officers because they think it will help them get away with doing bad bad stuff
Even reporting a crime I was treat like a suspect so my experiences haven’t been great.
I will add on one occasion I was arrested which was my fault (too much to drink and being an idiot) a female officer was really nice. She even came and checked on me before the end of her shift and sat with me for about 10 minutes just having a laugh so they aren’t all bad."Yeah that's happened to me as well I was r4ped and when I tried to report it one of the police officers were horrible to me but some the other were really nice So I understand that some of them are vile but it's not the majority thank fully | |||
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"Shows up on enhanced but not basic or standard "Basic and Standard DBS checks would not include information pertaining to non-crime hate reports, but the information may be considered during an Enhanced DBS check. " I didn't even know there were three types! I don't know who needs enhanced ones but probably not me! Yeah mines enhanced. I think the basic/standard ones are for workmen working in schools/hospitals/care homes regularly etc. I know they do have to have them. " I work for myself and have no need of a check. Useful to know who it might affect. | |||
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"Shows up on enhanced but not basic or standard "Basic and Standard DBS checks would not include information pertaining to non-crime hate reports, but the information may be considered during an Enhanced DBS check. " I didn't even know there were three types! I don't know who needs enhanced ones but probably not me! Yeah mines enhanced. I think the basic/standard ones are for workmen working in schools/hospitals/care homes regularly etc. I know they do have to have them. " Yeah my mum works in a school but has no contact whatsoever with the students as she's 1) not a teacher and 2) works in a completely different building to where the kids are and she has a standard dbs done | |||
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"I dislike the police but am still aware I will no doubt need them at some point in my life. I’ve been strip searched, had my mothers house raided, thrown in a cell overnight and made to do an identity parade and wasn’t charged for any of them. I don’t know why I was targeted but I can guess. The police need a massive overhaul from top to bottom. I've had mostly positive experiences with the police, I've come across my fair share of twits but I'm pretty sure they're like that with most people not just me specifically That being said some of the reports I read online about things they have done really do make me
I don't think all police are bad, but I do think that some bad people do become police officers because they think it will help them get away with doing bad bad stuff
Even reporting a crime I was treat like a suspect so my experiences haven’t been great.
I will add on one occasion I was arrested which was my fault (too much to drink and being an idiot) a female officer was really nice. She even came and checked on me before the end of her shift and sat with me for about 10 minutes just having a laugh so they aren’t all bad.
Yeah that's happened to me as well
I was r4ped and when I tried to report it one of the police officers were horrible to me but some the other were really nice
So I understand that some of them are vile but it's not the majority thank fully "That’s disgusting. I’ve heard lots of stories like that. I’m sure I read they’ve created either a new department or new guidelines to stop that happening these days. | |||
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"I haven't read the judgment (obviously!) just all of the news reports and Twitter commentary. But the Judge said that the data collected from recording the incidents wasn't being analysed so - something needed to change to make the recording worthwhile. And for the incidents recorded to be genuinely hostile rather than provocative or contraversial views. I've read the guidance to officers now. It seems quite sensible IMO. Hopefully this means fewer incidents are recorded and they're actually precedents to crime and support a pattern of criminality - that they're useful. Your question about hate crimes isn't relevant as they're not affected by this ruling? I also found it deeply worrying that non-crime hate incidents could be recorded against someone and they weren't notified. But they would come up in a DBS check. So someone could take offence to a tweet that I retweet, report me and the police then record it which stays on my record for 2 years I think? The judge said no such thing, and police forces do analyse such data (both manually and through automated systems). Such reports also don't come up in a DBS check. This is a tiring level of ignorance for someone who is so insistent that they're right
The reports do come up in a DBS check as Tess has said.
Yes I had misremembered the judge's statement. I have my opinions. You're also insistent on yours.
Fine, so very specifically you want to allow someone like Henry Miller to work with people that may be vulnerable to Henry Miller. And I believe that shouldn't be the case.
You do have your opinions; you're very polite about them."I do try to be polite. I expressed frustration with tens of thousands of "non-crimes" being reported, I was quite shocked to read of the system. It seemed wide open to misuse. I'm glad that the case Harry Miller brought means the recording will be more robust hopefully. And thus more useful. Don't know why you've reworded my comments in the way you have. | |||
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"They're all too busy stitching up and beating innocent people , drug dealing and murdering innocent women when they're not pleasuring themselves in their cars or in parks " All of them? Course they are. Grow up | |||
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"They're all too busy stitching up and beating innocent people , drug dealing and murdering innocent women when they're not pleasuring themselves in their cars or in parks " What, all of them? Every single policeman and woman? | |||
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"I do try to be polite. I expressed frustration with tens of thousands of "non-crimes" being reported, I was quite shocked to read of the system. It seemed wide open to misuse. I'm glad that the case Harry Miller brought means the recording will be more robust hopefully. And thus more useful. Don't know why you've reworded my comments in the way you have. " Do you think that it would be a good thing if Henry Miller's transphobic (but not illegal) "incidents" now didn't show up on a DBS check, for example if he went to work at a school or a hospital? | |||
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"All the police are scum. All the police are racist. How can people not see the irony in these comments?! I’ll leave you all to crack on "I don't think anyone here has said all the police are racist | |||
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"All the police are scum. All the police are racist. How can people not see the irony in these comments?! I’ll leave you all to crack on
I don't think anyone here has said all the police are racist
"They don’t have to when they talk of them as a whole, constantly | |||
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"As an ex police officer with 17 years service before i was retired on ill health as a result of having my left arm rendered almost useless for anything but the lightest of tasks due to a knife attack from someone (aged 16) who i should have searched but didnt due to being scared to death of being branded the R word. I know why the police response times have dropped; they are dealing with so many pointless minor moans about things that social services and councils should deal with but cant (due to lack of staff), and filling in a million forms that the bosses say they have to fill in to defend claims various types (have you ever seen how long it takes to fill in a search form if you do it right), there are less front line officers, those that are there are older due to the retirement age being pushed up again and again. Some (not all) response drivers are scared to death of speeding to jobs in case someone alleges that were driving dangerously even if they were not. I still talk to ex colleagues who still serve and moral is at the lowest ever, they have no backing from the public (in some cases deserved i agree), no backing from chief constables and less from crime commissioners and politicians who are all typical politicians, saying what they think people want to hear. The people of this country get a better service than a lot of countries from their cops (live in France or Spain and you will see that). Not every cop is good or great, most are good enough and some are bloody awful - A bit like every other job really, but most i have met do the best they can, and i mean MOST not ALL. You didn't do your job properly cause you were scared of being called racist? That one thing is what you took away from that? Who the feck would want to be a policeman in this day and age. The middle men and women in someone else's silly games. Winston My thoughts exactly Winston. I have friends and family in the police force and the comments on this thread are making my blood boil more than any other has. I have been biting my tongue reading this so much it’s almost bleeding. I will continued to bite it I think
I too have family members in the police and some of the comments are vile"Yep, I think people are forgetting that in the uniform is a human being, some could be Fab members reading these comments. Truly vile...my fwb is an officer and has been physically abused and verbally abused on a regular basis, no other profession has to deal with the societal dregs. I get upset he just shrugs saying it's part of the job, well it fucking shouldn't be part of anyone's job. | |||
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"All the police are scum. All the police are racist. How can people not see the irony in these comments?! I’ll leave you all to crack on
I don't think anyone here has said all the police are racist
"#notallpolice (Sorry couldn't resist) There are some sweeping statements in this thread .... | |||
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"As an ex police officer with 17 years service before i was retired on ill health as a result of having my left arm rendered almost useless for anything but the lightest of tasks due to a knife attack from someone (aged 16) who i should have searched but didnt due to being scared to death of being branded the R word. I know why the police response times have dropped; they are dealing with so many pointless minor moans about things that social services and councils should deal with but cant (due to lack of staff), and filling in a million forms that the bosses say they have to fill in to defend claims various types (have you ever seen how long it takes to fill in a search form if you do it right), there are less front line officers, those that are there are older due to the retirement age being pushed up again and again. Some (not all) response drivers are scared to death of speeding to jobs in case someone alleges that were driving dangerously even if they were not. I still talk to ex colleagues who still serve and moral is at the lowest ever, they have no backing from the public (in some cases deserved i agree), no backing from chief constables and less from crime commissioners and politicians who are all typical politicians, saying what they think people want to hear. The people of this country get a better service than a lot of countries from their cops (live in France or Spain and you will see that). Not every cop is good or great, most are good enough and some are bloody awful - A bit like every other job really, but most i have met do the best they can, and i mean MOST not ALL. You didn't do your job properly cause you were scared of being called racist? That one thing is what you took away from that? Who the feck would want to be a policeman in this day and age. The middle men and women in someone else's silly games. Winston My thoughts exactly Winston. I have friends and family in the police force and the comments on this thread are making my blood boil more than any other has. I have been biting my tongue reading this so much it’s almost bleeding. I will continued to bite it I think
I too have family members in the police and some of the comments are vile
Yep, I think people are forgetting that in the uniform is a human being, some could be Fab members reading these comments. Truly vile...my fwb is an officer and has been physically abused and verbally abused on a regular basis, no other profession has to deal with the societal dregs. I get upset he just shrugs saying it's part of the job, well it fucking shouldn't be part of anyone's job. "Absolutely vile and i agree with everything you’ve said. I swore I wouldn’t get involved in this thread and I bloody have! So im off to bed | |||
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"All the police are scum. All the police are racist. How can people not see the irony in these comments?! I’ll leave you all to crack on
I don't think anyone here has said all the police are racist
"Nora has a point though, people do lump them all in the same pile...Using what they hear and read in the media as a means to attack all of that sector. | |||
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"I do try to be polite. I expressed frustration with tens of thousands of "non-crimes" being reported, I was quite shocked to read of the system. It seemed wide open to misuse. I'm glad that the case Harry Miller brought means the recording will be more robust hopefully. And thus more useful. Don't know why you've reworded my comments in the way you have. Do you think that it would be a good thing if Henry Miller's transphobic (but not illegal) "incidents" now didn't show up on a DBS check, for example if he went to work at a school or a hospital?" The new system wouldn't necessarily mean his behaviour wasn't recorded - or someone like him. The key is hostility, isnt it? He seems hostile to trans people. It's the balance between free speech and protected characteristics that was the point of the case - I thought. Overall whilst I don't agree with his views I agree with the findings of the judge. | |||
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"All the police are scum. All the police are racist. How can people not see the irony in these comments?! I’ll leave you all to crack on "Somebody has said this? And to the point that they’re not all racists, it’s a shame that Black people’s experiences generally with the police are still horrific isn’t it? And that families have grieved for losses that police officers have caused, that they’ve done nothing about, that they’ve joked about in WhatsApp groups, that have had their teenage daughters feeling [redacted] because of embarrassing rule breaking searches? We know there are good officers. What exactly does that do for us though? | |||
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"All the police are scum. All the police are racist. How can people not see the irony in these comments?! I’ll leave you all to crack on
I don't think anyone here has said all the police are racist
Nora has a point though, people do lump them all in the same pile...Using what they hear and read in the media as a means to attack all of that sector."Yes. And not … *checks notes* our actual experiences. Lol. If anything, the media and journalists and politicians all make out the police aren’t as racist as they are. And gaslight us about things we’re actually living. Things people have researched. | |||
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"As an ex police officer with 17 years service before i was retired on ill health as a result of having my left arm rendered almost useless for anything but the lightest of tasks due to a knife attack from someone (aged 16) who i should have searched but didnt due to being scared to death of being branded the R word. I know why the police response times have dropped; they are dealing with so many pointless minor moans about things that social services and councils should deal with but cant (due to lack of staff), and filling in a million forms that the bosses say they have to fill in to defend claims various types (have you ever seen how long it takes to fill in a search form if you do it right), there are less front line officers, those that are there are older due to the retirement age being pushed up again and again. Some (not all) response drivers are scared to death of speeding to jobs in case someone alleges that were driving dangerously even if they were not. I still talk to ex colleagues who still serve and moral is at the lowest ever, they have no backing from the public (in some cases deserved i agree), no backing from chief constables and less from crime commissioners and politicians who are all typical politicians, saying what they think people want to hear. The people of this country get a better service than a lot of countries from their cops (live in France or Spain and you will see that). Not every cop is good or great, most are good enough and some are bloody awful - A bit like every other job really, but most i have met do the best they can, and i mean MOST not ALL. You didn't do your job properly cause you were scared of being called racist? That one thing is what you took away from that? Who the feck would want to be a policeman in this day and age. The middle men and women in someone else's silly games. Winston My thoughts exactly Winston. I have friends and family in the police force and the comments on this thread are making my blood boil more than any other has. I have been biting my tongue reading this so much it’s almost bleeding. I will continued to bite it I think
I too have family members in the police and some of the comments are vile
Yep, I think people are forgetting that in the uniform is a human being, some could be Fab members reading these comments. Truly vile...my fwb is an officer and has been physically abused and verbally abused on a regular basis, no other profession has to deal with the societal dregs. I get upset he just shrugs saying it's part of the job, well it fucking shouldn't be part of anyone's job. "Unfortunately as police who deal with criminals and the like there is a risk of these things happening He should be encouraged to report it make those people atone for what they've done and his superiors should be encouraging that as well Nothing like this should be shrugged off My friend who is a nurse was punched by someone while she was at work and her senior sister on the shift told her that it's normal when when dealing with 'that kind of person' (I don't know the specifics) and was told to drop it. She called the police there and then and they came and took a statement from her and the patient had to go to court because thankfully it was caught on cctv No one in any profession should have to deal with physical abuse or any time of abuse really but some jobs unfortunately do have a higher chance of being exposed to that | |||
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"All the police are scum. All the police are racist. How can people not see the irony in these comments?! I’ll leave you all to crack on
I don't think anyone here has said all the police are racist
They don’t have to when they talk of them as a whole, constantly "People don’t need to put ‘some’ in front of things when evidence supports that something is generally true. I mean institutionally rather than individually the evidence and even some senior staff point to clear racism. Good police officers don’t make my experience better. They don’t stop the horrible things that communities suffer. And it’s also ahistorical to pretend that the police do their best for these communities. They don’t. | |||
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"All the police are scum. All the police are racist. How can people not see the irony in these comments?! I’ll leave you all to crack on
I don't think anyone here has said all the police are racist
Nora has a point though, people do lump them all in the same pile...Using what they hear and read in the media as a means to attack all of that sector.
Yes. And not … *checks notes* our actual experiences. Lol. If anything, the media and journalists and politicians all make out the police aren’t as racist as they are. And gaslight us about things we’re actually living. Things people have researched. "You have your experience and I am not discrediting that. All I am saying is the whole sector cannot be blamed for the actions of some officers. Believe me I know police who are just as disgusted as you about what has gone on in some areas of the UK. | |||
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"All the police are scum. All the police are racist. How can people not see the irony in these comments?! I’ll leave you all to crack on
I don't think anyone here has said all the police are racist
They don’t have to when they talk of them as a whole, constantly
People don’t need to put ‘some’ in front of things when evidence supports that something is generally true. I mean institutionally rather than individually the evidence and even some senior staff point to clear racism. Good police officers don’t make my experience better. They don’t stop the horrible things that communities suffer. And it’s also ahistorical to pretend that the police do their best for these communities. They don’t. "There's so much evidence that institutional issues stretching back years mean that racists and misogynists and others can flourish. But the individuals who try to do their best in that system, who aren't bigots, are struggling too. With little power to change the system. That needs to come from the top for change to happen. | |||
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"All the police are scum. All the police are racist. How can people not see the irony in these comments?! I’ll leave you all to crack on
I don't think anyone here has said all the police are racist
They don’t have to when they talk of them as a whole, constantly
People don’t need to put ‘some’ in front of things when evidence supports that something is generally true. I mean institutionally rather than individually the evidence and even some senior staff point to clear racism. Good police officers don’t make my experience better. They don’t stop the horrible things that communities suffer. And it’s also ahistorical to pretend that the police do their best for these communities. They don’t. "This is a very good point. How many times do you hear good men should stop the bad men from harassing women? Or good Muslims should report anyone Muslims with extremist views? Points I agree with by the way but why aren’t good officers be stopping the bad ones? | |||
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"All the police are scum. All the police are racist. How can people not see the irony in these comments?! I’ll leave you all to crack on
I don't think anyone here has said all the police are racist
Nora has a point though, people do lump them all in the same pile...Using what they hear and read in the media as a means to attack all of that sector.
Yes. And not … *checks notes* our actual experiences. Lol. If anything, the media and journalists and politicians all make out the police aren’t as racist as they are. And gaslight us about things we’re actually living. Things people have researched.
You have your experience and I am not discrediting that. All I am saying is the whole sector cannot be blamed for the actions of some officers. Believe me I know police who are just as disgusted as you about what has gone on in some areas of the UK.
"But what does that do? Like I said, I am sure there are nice working for the police but what does that do for us? Because it’s not changing our experiences for the better? Individually the entire sector isn’t but it’s pretty clear that institutionally they are. | |||
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"All the police are scum. All the police are racist. How can people not see the irony in these comments?! I’ll leave you all to crack on
I don't think anyone here has said all the police are racist
Nora has a point though, people do lump them all in the same pile...Using what they hear and read in the media as a means to attack all of that sector.
Yes. And not … *checks notes* our actual experiences. Lol. If anything, the media and journalists and politicians all make out the police aren’t as racist as they are. And gaslight us about things we’re actually living. Things people have researched. "I totally understand why poc think like this but I think the main reason why I try not to is because I have lots of dealing with the police over the years and I would say out of a potential 20+ etc only 1 of those interactions were negative The experiences I've had have definitely made me see the police in a different, more positive light than I did when I was younger But I don't think anyone should be told that their personal opinions based on a group of people is wrong because it all boils down to personal experiences at the end of the day | |||
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"All the police are scum. All the police are racist. How can people not see the irony in these comments?! I’ll leave you all to crack on
I don't think anyone here has said all the police are racist
They don’t have to when they talk of them as a whole, constantly
People don’t need to put ‘some’ in front of things when evidence supports that something is generally true. I mean institutionally rather than individually the evidence and even some senior staff point to clear racism. Good police officers don’t make my experience better. They don’t stop the horrible things that communities suffer. And it’s also ahistorical to pretend that the police do their best for these communities. They don’t.
This is a very good point. How many times do you hear good men should stop the bad men from harassing women? Or good Muslims should report anyone Muslims with extremist views?
Points I agree with by the way but why aren’t good officers be stopping the bad ones?"A lot of the time its cause they're scared of repercussions of going against their fellow officer | |||
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"All the police are scum. All the police are racist. How can people not see the irony in these comments?! I’ll leave you all to crack on
I don't think anyone here has said all the police are racist
They don’t have to when they talk of them as a whole, constantly
People don’t need to put ‘some’ in front of things when evidence supports that something is generally true. I mean institutionally rather than individually the evidence and even some senior staff point to clear racism. Good police officers don’t make my experience better. They don’t stop the horrible things that communities suffer. And it’s also ahistorical to pretend that the police do their best for these communities. They don’t.
This is a very good point. How many times do you hear good men should stop the bad men from harassing women? Or good Muslims should report anyone Muslims with extremist views?
Points I agree with by the way but why aren’t good officers be stopping the bad ones?"It’s exactly why #notallmen isn’t a useful thing to say. Because who is that helping other than the man who feels sad that he’s a good person and isn’t being given the credit he deserves. Fuck the experiences of people. What about him. Lol | |||
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"All the police are scum. All the police are racist. How can people not see the irony in these comments?! I’ll leave you all to crack on
I don't think anyone here has said all the police are racist
They don’t have to when they talk of them as a whole, constantly
People don’t need to put ‘some’ in front of things when evidence supports that something is generally true. I mean institutionally rather than individually the evidence and even some senior staff point to clear racism. Good police officers don’t make my experience better. They don’t stop the horrible things that communities suffer. And it’s also ahistorical to pretend that the police do their best for these communities. They don’t.
This is a very good point. How many times do you hear good men should stop the bad men from harassing women? Or good Muslims should report anyone Muslims with extremist views?
Points I agree with by the way but why aren’t good officers be stopping the bad ones?
It’s exactly why #notallmen isn’t a useful thing to say. Because who is that helping other than the man who feels sad that he’s a good person and isn’t being given the credit he deserves. Fuck the experiences of people. What about him. Lol "I’ve had a few drinks so that last post could have been written better but the point still stands. Exactly. By saying Police people aren’t saying all police. The same as BLM isn’t saying black lives matter more. | |||
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"All the police are scum. All the police are racist. How can people not see the irony in these comments?! I’ll leave you all to crack on
I don't think anyone here has said all the police are racist
Nora has a point though, people do lump them all in the same pile...Using what they hear and read in the media as a means to attack all of that sector.
Yes. And not … *checks notes* our actual experiences. Lol. If anything, the media and journalists and politicians all make out the police aren’t as racist as they are. And gaslight us about things we’re actually living. Things people have researched.
You have your experience and I am not discrediting that. All I am saying is the whole sector cannot be blamed for the actions of some officers. Believe me I know police who are just as disgusted as you about what has gone on in some areas of the UK.
But what does that do? Like I said, I am sure there are nice working for the police but what does that do for us? Because it’s not changing our experiences for the better?
Individually the entire sector isn’t but it’s pretty clear that institutionally they are. "Lol, how do you think some of these crimes by officers got reported? Colleagues do out them. I'm done, you have issues with me which are deeper than this debate so let's leave it there. I've said my view from my perspective. You said yours from your views | |||
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"All the police are scum. All the police are racist. How can people not see the irony in these comments?! I’ll leave you all to crack on
I don't think anyone here has said all the police are racist
Nora has a point though, people do lump them all in the same pile...Using what they hear and read in the media as a means to attack all of that sector.
Yes. And not … *checks notes* our actual experiences. Lol. If anything, the media and journalists and politicians all make out the police aren’t as racist as they are. And gaslight us about things we’re actually living. Things people have researched.
You have your experience and I am not discrediting that. All I am saying is the whole sector cannot be blamed for the actions of some officers. Believe me I know police who are just as disgusted as you about what has gone on in some areas of the UK.
But what does that do? Like I said, I am sure there are nice working for the police but what does that do for us? Because it’s not changing our experiences for the better?
Individually the entire sector isn’t but it’s pretty clear that institutionally they are.
Lol, how do you think some of these crimes by officers got reported? Colleagues do out them.
I'm done, you have issues with me which are deeper than this debate so let's leave it there. I've said my view from my perspective. You said yours from your views
"I literally have no issue with you. And never have had an issue with you. Goodnight. | |||
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"I’m checking out because one thing I’ve learned in only 25 years of life is you’re one passionate rant away from being the angry Black guy with a chip on his shoulder. " hugs! | |||
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"They're all too busy stitching up and beating innocent people , drug dealing and murdering innocent women when they're not pleasuring themselves in their cars or in parks " "All". Yes. Yes, of course they are. In the same way all people of colour practice voodoo. I've read some ridiculous statements, but that's golden. Winston *for clarity, I do not believe the police are all too busy stitching up and beating innocent people , drug dealing and murdering innocent women when they're not pleasuring themselves in their cars and I do not believe all people of colour practice voodoo. | |||
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"All the police are scum. All the police are racist. How can people not see the irony in these comments?! I’ll leave you all to crack on
I don't think anyone here has said all the police are racist
Nora has a point though, people do lump them all in the same pile...Using what they hear and read in the media as a means to attack all of that sector.
Yes. And not … *checks notes* our actual experiences. Lol. If anything, the media and journalists and politicians all make out the police aren’t as racist as they are. And gaslight us about things we’re actually living. Things people have researched.
You have your experience and I am not discrediting that. All I am saying is the whole sector cannot be blamed for the actions of some officers. Believe me I know police who are just as disgusted as you about what has gone on in some areas of the UK.
But what does that do? Like I said, I am sure there are nice working for the police but what does that do for us? Because it’s not changing our experiences for the better?
Individually the entire sector isn’t but it’s pretty clear that institutionally they are.
Lol, how do you think some of these crimes by officers got reported? Colleagues do out them.
I'm done, you have issues with me which are deeper than this debate so let's leave it there. I've said my view from my perspective. You said yours from your views
I literally have no issue with you. And never have had an issue with you. Goodnight. "Lol right you are | |||
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"I’m checking out because one thing I’ve learned in only 25 years of life is you’re one passionate rant away from being the angry Black guy with a chip on his shoulder. " I'm already there lol One thing I will tell you is never let people stop you from speaking about your experiences especially if they're not living the same life as you xxxxx | |||
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"Police are scum " Your chances of getting laid just fell off cliff! To think that in a democratic society you have a vote....... | |||
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"All the police are scum. All the police are racist. How can people not see the irony in these comments?! I’ll leave you all to crack on
I don't think anyone here has said all the police are racist
Nora has a point though, people do lump them all in the same pile...Using what they hear and read in the media as a means to attack all of that sector."Indeed. Just like all the vicars are something and all the 1980’s DJs and TV presenters are something….all the football fans are something and……..I even bet there are some swingers who are something too…..there are bad eggs in every walk of life…..but the real trouble is keyboard warriors on social media!! FFS | |||
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"I find it amazing that people would still claim the police aren't institutionally racist. The College of Policing even have a "Police Race Action Plan", in which the NPCC admit to institutional racism and set out how they plan on fixing it. That doesn't mean every police officer, in their own minds, hold racist views - but that they are part of a system that delivers racist outcomes and closes ranks around racist officers. It's like how no one part of a gun kills, but the way the parts are arranged and interlocked means the outcome is pre-ordained." | |||
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"So I’m reading a 3rd black teenage school girl was strip searched in front of 6 Met officers , with male officers watching the school girl. This is on top of the 2 other school girls that was reported earlier this year. " I've just caught that story. JFC those poor girls. Makes me very angry.  | |||
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***trigger alert*** | |||
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"In that time female officer numbers have grown massively. Easy answer. Women drivers and how much time they spend talking
***trigger alert***"Your username isn't accurate. | |||
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"I do try to be polite. I expressed frustration with tens of thousands of "non-crimes" being reported, I was quite shocked to read of the system. It seemed wide open to misuse. I'm glad that the case Harry Miller brought means the recording will be more robust hopefully. And thus more useful. Don't know why you've reworded my comments in the way you have. Do you think that it would be a good thing if Henry Miller's transphobic (but not illegal) "incidents" now didn't show up on a DBS check, for example if he went to work at a school or a hospital? The new system wouldn't necessarily mean his behaviour wasn't recorded - or someone like him. The key is hostility, isnt it? He seems hostile to trans people. It's the balance between free speech and protected characteristics that was the point of the case - I thought. Overall whilst I don't agree with his views I agree with the findings of the judge. " I thought we were having a polite discussion. But you seem to be suggesting elsewhere that what I'm saying is a transphobic dog whistle. | |||
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"In that time female officer numbers have grown massively. Easy answer. Women drivers and how much time they spend talking
***trigger alert***
Your username isn't accurate."I know. My name isn't actually Jack Sparrow. Stay triggered though | |||
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"So I’m reading a 3rd black teenage school girl was strip searched in front of 6 Met officers , with male officers watching the school girl. This is on top of the 2 other school girls that was reported earlier this year. " This subject was on radio four this weekend. The whole issue of searching anyone least of all minors has to be within strict guidelines that ensue rights safety and dignity have to be maintained. Those officers who conducted these searches need to be disciplined and the events investigated by the appropriate authority. | |||
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"As an ex police officer with 17 years service before i was retired on ill health as a result of having my left arm rendered almost useless for anything but the lightest of tasks due to a knife attack from someone (aged 16) who i should have searched but didnt due to being scared to death of being branded the R word. I know why the police response times have dropped; they are dealing with so many pointless minor moans about things that social services and councils should deal with but cant (due to lack of staff), and filling in a million forms that the bosses say they have to fill in to defend claims various types (have you ever seen how long it takes to fill in a search form if you do it right), there are less front line officers, those that are there are older due to the retirement age being pushed up again and again. Some (not all) response drivers are scared to death of speeding to jobs in case someone alleges that were driving dangerously even if they were not. I still talk to ex colleagues who still serve and moral is at the lowest ever, they have no backing from the public (in some cases deserved i agree), no backing from chief constables and less from crime commissioners and politicians who are all typical politicians, saying what they think people want to hear. The people of this country get a better service than a lot of countries from their cops (live in France or Spain and you will see that). Not every cop is good or great, most are good enough and some are bloody awful - A bit like every other job really, but most i have met do the best they can, and i mean MOST not ALL. Thank you for your balanced view. I believe this Tory government has given the police more powers then ever. I don’t agree to the level of powers taken from the public. " What powers exactly ? | |||
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"Police are scum Wow. Some of you people disgust me " Angela Rayner called all Tories scum.. just saying  | |||
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"Police are scum Wow. Some of you people disgust me Angela Rayner called all Tories scum.. just saying "Lower than vermin. Just saying. | |||
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"This subject was on radio four this weekend. The whole issue of searching anyone least of all minors has to be within strict guidelines that ensue rights safety and dignity have to be maintained. Those officers who conducted these searches need to be disciplined and the events investigated by the appropriate authority." They need to be more than disciplined. They need to be charged with a criminal offence. | |||
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"Police are scum Wow. Some of you people disgust me Angela Rayner called all Tories scum.. just saying "Well if a lefty says it, it must be true lmao | |||
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"Police are scum " Get caught did you..?? | |||
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"They should make better allowances for people to defend themselves and their homes/property with force. It's going to be necessary like it or not as the Police clearly aren't going to do anything but regress as a service. The laws are there, was brought in soon after Tony Martin. If someone threatens you IN your own home, you’re allowed to use reasonable force*. You just can’t chase them into the street and then batter them. *I.e. if someone threatens you with a hammer, you cannot blast them with a shotgun, that’s disproportionate force. " Actually depending on the circumstances and impact factors it could be deemed proportionate force, eg, little old lady with shotgun 6'2'' heavily built male whity a hammer totally changed the dynamic and in the circumstances could be deemed self defence. | |||
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