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The end of the United Kingdom
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"Whilst the newspapers obsess over Johnson, Starmer and whether the Conservatives or Labour really "won" anything on Thursday: the United Kingdom was put on notice that its breakup is imminent. The SNP strengthened their grip in Scotland and as good as cemented their claim for the right to hold another referendum as the Conservatives dropped into third place behind Labour. It is probably reasonable to suggest that this referendum is going to happen within the next five years because if it doesn't happen in this Parliament, one more big drive by the SNP next time round will make it inevitable in the next Parliament. Meanwhile, Sinn Fein is now the biggest party in Northern Ireland and the mandate for the reunification vote is already negotiated and set in stone and Westminster can't do anything about that. High inflation in the UK and a Brexit damaged economy will surely only strengthen the resolve of even moderates in N Ireland to see a better future in a united Ireland that is comfortable and stable in the European Union. The only fly in the ointment there might be if extremist Unionist supporters decide to take up arms again. They are certainly antagonistic and dumb enough to do just that. So - Beergate? Partygate? Johnson V Starmer? Or the very real threat of a broken United Kingdom? What is most important?" The UK will break... Its inevitable... And if its what the "people" want... Its the price/benefit of democracy and progress. The same people who want union with some countries in Europe but dont with their own neighbours.. | |||
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"Whilst the newspapers obsess over Johnson, Starmer and whether the Conservatives or Labour really "won" anything on Thursday: the United Kingdom was put on notice that its breakup is imminent. The SNP strengthened their grip in Scotland and as good as cemented their claim for the right to hold another referendum as the Conservatives dropped into third place behind Labour. It is probably reasonable to suggest that this referendum is going to happen within the next five years because if it doesn't happen in this Parliament, one more big drive by the SNP next time round will make it inevitable in the next Parliament. Meanwhile, Sinn Fein is now the biggest party in Northern Ireland and the mandate for the reunification vote is already negotiated and set in stone and Westminster can't do anything about that. High inflation in the UK and a Brexit damaged economy will surely only strengthen the resolve of even moderates in N Ireland to see a better future in a united Ireland that is comfortable and stable in the European Union. The only fly in the ointment there might be if extremist Unionist supporters decide to take up arms again. They are certainly antagonistic and dumb enough to do just that. So - Beergate? Partygate? Johnson V Starmer? Or the very real threat of a broken United Kingdom? What is most important? The UK will break... Its inevitable... And if its what the "people" want... Its the price/benefit of democracy and progress. The same people who want union with some countries in Europe but dont with their own neighbours.. " post of the day spot on | |||
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" The same people who want union with some countries in Europe but dont with their own neighbours.. " The big question is why do they feel that way? Why do they want to disassociate themselves from England and align themselves with other European countries. Maybe we English should have a go at answering that question. Nothing like a good, long, hard look in the mirror. | |||
"The break up of the UK is a long way off and unlikely to ever happen . A lot of people in NI prefer the security of being aligned to the UK. Just because someone is a Natonalist does not mean that they support a United Ireland . Having to pay to use the equivalent of the health service is unlikely to be a vote winner. Southern Ireland faces many problems including the cost of housing. Sinn Fein have only made progress in the elections because the Unionist vote is split. Scotland has already had a referendum and the results were a conclusive yes to remaining in the UK. Breaking up the Union would not be a benefit to the residents of these countries. Most of the residents of these countries are economically astute and are unlikey to do anything to damage their future . Not everyone will want to turn a blind eye to Sinn Feins connections with terrorism " The British Empire has been decline since the turn of the 20th Century as nation after nation parted ways from Britain and did their own thing. The last bastion of the British Empire is the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. If people are economically astute and they have witnessed 12 years of chaotic Westminster Government since 2010, why wouldn’t they want to try something different? Scotland and Northern Ireland rejected Brexit, but it was forced on them anyway. In my opinion this will be a big motivation in Scotland and Northern Ireland to change their status quo. As you said. They are financially astute. | |||
". Just because someone is a Natonalist does not mean that they support a United Ireland . " 
Brilliant political commentary there as usual.
That's exactly what it does mean pal,literally.
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"what's important is how people vote on the day and unionism has been stronlgy rejected in all nations. luckily Sinn Fein have now become the biggest party in the north of ireland. "Yep and what's also important is to not complain if you don't vote and secondly to respect whatever the outcome is and make our best of whatever situation we are left with. | |||
"That is the very attitude that make people want to distance themselves from the English. Oh and I am English born so recognise the hurt I feel at times xx" Was this aimed at me? If so I'm not sure what's wrong with being perfectly OK with people holding a democratic vote and choosing their own futures. For the record I think we're better united but at the same time I don't know anyone who will lose a wink of sleep if Scotland, NI and Wales wanted to go it alone | |||
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"It does not seem to matter how poorly they run Education and NHS Scotland or how much debt they run up bribing the voters with free prescriptions etc. the SNP continue to grow their support as if only traitors do not vote SNP. On the other hand they continue to hammer away at Westminister saying they are ignoring Scotland and treating the Scots badly. . " … and that’s before you mention ferries, missing(destroyed) paperwork, missing £500 million covid cash from ukGov… and there’s more! | |||
"It does not seem to matter how poorly they run Education and NHS Scotland or how much debt they run up bribing the voters with free prescriptions etc. the SNP continue to grow their support as if only traitors do not vote SNP. On the other hand they continue to hammer away at Westminister saying they are ignoring Scotland and treating the Scots badly. . … and that’s before you mention ferries, missing(destroyed) paperwork, missing £500 million covid cash from ukGov… and there’s more!" Shush! You will be "dealt with" if you break ranks.  Remember what happened to Alec Salmon? | |||
"Northern Ireland and Scotland are a financial drain on england so good bye, farewell, no tears here" They will both go when they have decided they will go. And it will be the people of ni and Scotland alone who will decide,not England. You won't get any say in it but as a taxpayer you are going to pay for it,in ni anyway,and pay for it for years after breakup of uk,probably for all your working life and your kids too Cry about that | |||
"The break up of the UK is a long way off and unlikely to ever happen . A lot of people in NI prefer the security of being aligned to the UK. Just because someone is a Natonalist does not mean that they support a United Ireland . Having to pay to use the equivalent of the health service is unlikely to be a vote winner. Southern Ireland faces many problems including the cost of housing. Sinn Fein have only made progress in the elections because the Unionist vote is split. Scotland has already had a referendum and the results were a conclusive yes to remaining in the UK. Breaking up the Union would not be a benefit to the residents of these countries. Most of the residents of these countries are economically astute and are unlikey to do anything to damage their future . Not everyone will want to turn a blind eye to Sinn Feins connections with terrorism " I don't agree with much of this. But your post actually makes sense, and isn't just the most ridiculous outlandish thing you can think of. Excellent. People can easily be swayed to vote for something that isn't "economically astute", especially when patriotism is used as a propaganda tool. I wonder if there is a recent example of this. Hmmmmm. Something that starts with B and rhymes with hexit. | |||
"The break up of the UK is a long way off and unlikely to ever happen . A lot of people in NI prefer the security of being aligned to the UK. Just because someone is a Natonalist does not mean that they support a United Ireland . Having to pay to use the equivalent of the health service is unlikely to be a vote winner. Southern Ireland faces many problems including the cost of housing. Sinn Fein have only made progress in the elections because the Unionist vote is split. Scotland has already had a referendum and the results were a conclusive yes to remaining in the UK. Breaking up the Union would not be a benefit to the residents of these countries. Most of the residents of these countries are economically astute and are unlikey to do anything to damage their future . Not everyone will want to turn a blind eye to Sinn Feins connections with terrorism I don't agree with much of this. But your post actually makes sense, and isn't just the most ridiculous outlandish thing you can think of. Excellent. People can easily be swayed to vote for something that isn't "economically astute", especially when patriotism is used as a propaganda tool. I wonder if there is a recent example of this. Hmmmmm. Something that starts with B and rhymes with hexit." trust you to bring brexit into this ffs | |||
"The break up of the UK is a long way off and unlikely to ever happen . A lot of people in NI prefer the security of being aligned to the UK. Just because someone is a Natonalist does not mean that they support a United Ireland . Having to pay to use the equivalent of the health service is unlikely to be a vote winner. Southern Ireland faces many problems including the cost of housing. Sinn Fein have only made progress in the elections because the Unionist vote is split. Scotland has already had a referendum and the results were a conclusive yes to remaining in the UK. Breaking up the Union would not be a benefit to the residents of these countries. Most of the residents of these countries are economically astute and are unlikey to do anything to damage their future . Not everyone will want to turn a blind eye to Sinn Feins connections with terrorism I don't agree with much of this. But your post actually makes sense, and isn't just the most ridiculous outlandish thing you can think of. Excellent. People can easily be swayed to vote for something that isn't "economically astute", especially when patriotism is used as a propaganda tool. I wonder if there is a recent example of this. Hmmmmm. Something that starts with B and rhymes with hexit.trust you to bring brexit into this ffs " Of course! Lol. It's a good example though. Personally, I'm not for, or against Scotland, NI, Wales etc leaving the union. I don't have strong feelings either way. But it would have financial implications for them. Much like the B word had for us. | |||
"The break up of the UK is a long way off and unlikely to ever happen . A lot of people in NI prefer the security of being aligned to the UK. Just because someone is a Natonalist does not mean that they support a United Ireland . Having to pay to use the equivalent of the health service is unlikely to be a vote winner. Southern Ireland faces many problems including the cost of housing. Sinn Fein have only made progress in the elections because the Unionist vote is split. Scotland has already had a referendum and the results were a conclusive yes to remaining in the UK. Breaking up the Union would not be a benefit to the residents of these countries. Most of the residents of these countries are economically astute and are unlikey to do anything to damage their future . Not everyone will want to turn a blind eye to Sinn Feins connections with terrorism I don't agree with much of this. But your post actually makes sense, and isn't just the most ridiculous outlandish thing you can think of. Excellent. People can easily be swayed to vote for something that isn't "economically astute", especially when patriotism is used as a propaganda tool. I wonder if there is a recent example of this. Hmmmmm. Something that starts with B and rhymes with hexit.trust you to bring brexit into this ffs " You can't talk about the break up of uk and not talk about brexit. Altho it's a conversation you should of had in uk before referendum. Scotland and ni both voted to stay in eu,so | |||
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"The break up of the UK is a long way off and unlikely to ever happen . A lot of people in NI prefer the security of being aligned to the UK. Just because someone is a Natonalist does not mean that they support a United Ireland . Having to pay to use the equivalent of the health service is unlikely to be a vote winner. Southern Ireland faces many problems including the cost of housing. Sinn Fein have only made progress in the elections because the Unionist vote is split. Scotland has already had a referendum and the results were a conclusive yes to remaining in the UK. Breaking up the Union would not be a benefit to the residents of these countries. Most of the residents of these countries are economically astute and are unlikey to do anything to damage their future . Not everyone will want to turn a blind eye to Sinn Feins connections with terrorism " That’s what they said about Brexit, yet here we are…l | |||
" The same people who want union with some countries in Europe but dont with their own neighbours.. The big question is why do they feel that way? Why do they want to disassociate themselves from England and align themselves with other European countries. Maybe we English should have a go at answering that question. Nothing like a good, long, hard look in the mirror. " Well, quite. Burns himself, memorably, put it this way: O wad some Pow'r the giftie gie us. To see oursels as ithers see us! If you can't understand Scots, by the way; that's your problem. Neither an independent Scotland nor a united Ireland are inevitable - but they're more likely now than they've ever been since the UK was formed. I'd be happy enough to see a united Ireland. If it happens, the sun will still come up the day after it. Have to say that it seems like it'll happen after I'm dead, though. As far as Scotland is concerned, I'll likely have croaked it, too - but maybe not. In any case, the bottom line is this; as long as there is a Tory government in Westminster, there will be an SNP government in Holyrood. It's our most effective way to oppose Tory rule and protect ourselves from some of the damage it does. There's no bedroom tax up here and our prescriptions are free; for example. If the Tories (or even a future Labour government) continue to deny Scotland a further referendum on independence - for whatever reason - they'll have to explain why self-determination is vital for the people of Hong Kong and Ukraine; but not so much for the Scots. You either believe in representative democracy - and that it should be universal - or you don't. Blair and Cameron, for all their many faults, did. Which is why Scotland is where it is today. It's brutally clear, to 70%+ of Scots, that no Tory government gives a shit about them. We know it - it's reflected in the way we vote; again and again. However, they do give a shit about losing a third of the UK's landmass, all the territorial waters around it, the abundant, clean, fresh water in Scotland; the oil (now, at least) and somewhere away from the Thames, where it belongs, to park Trident. Those are the main reasons why no UK government will let Scotland go without a fight; despite so many of their English constituents wishing they would. One more thing; England clearly isn't united within itself. The responsibility for that lies with one group of people. If they can't unite the main part of the UK - what chance do they have of uniting all four parts of it? | |||
" The same people who want union with some countries in Europe but dont with their own neighbours.. The big question is why do they feel that way? Why do they want to disassociate themselves from England and align themselves with other European countries. Maybe we English should have a go at answering that question. Nothing like a good, long, hard look in the mirror. Well, quite. Burns himself, memorably, put it this way: O wad some Pow'r the giftie gie us. To see oursels as ithers see us! If you can't understand Scots, by the way; that's your problem. Neither an independent Scotland nor a united Ireland are inevitable - but they're more likely now than they've ever been since the UK was formed. I'd be happy enough to see a united Ireland. If it happens, the sun will still come up the day after it. Have to say that it seems like it'll happen after I'm dead, though. As far as Scotland is concerned, I'll likely have croaked it, too - but maybe not. In any case, the bottom line is this; as long as there is a Tory government in Westminster, there will be an SNP government in Holyrood. It's our most effective way to oppose Tory rule and protect ourselves from some of the damage it does. There's no bedroom tax up here and our prescriptions are free; for example. If the Tories (or even a future Labour government) continue to deny Scotland a further referendum on independence - for whatever reason - they'll have to explain why self-determination is vital for the people of Hong Kong and Ukraine; but not so much for the Scots. You either believe in representative democracy - and that it should be universal - or you don't. Blair and Cameron, for all their many faults, did. Which is why Scotland is where it is today. It's brutally clear, to 70%+ of Scots, that no Tory government gives a shit about them. We know it - it's reflected in the way we vote; again and again. However, they do give a shit about losing a third of the UK's landmass, all the territorial waters around it, the abundant, clean, fresh water in Scotland; the oil (now, at least) and somewhere away from the Thames, where it belongs, to park Trident. Those are the main reasons why no UK government will let Scotland go without a fight; despite so many of their English constituents wishing they would. One more thing; England clearly isn't united within itself. The responsibility for that lies with one group of people. If they can't unite the main part of the UK - what chance do they have of uniting all four parts of it?"
I'll add that an independent Scotland (which will request EU membership) and a united Ireland (Part of which is already in the EU) will do considerable trade between each other and the rest of the EU. Wales will be next.
I wish them all the best. | |||
"People can easily be swayed to vote for something that isn't "economically astute", especially when patriotism is used as a propaganda tool. I wonder if there is a recent example of this. Hmmmmm. Something that starts with B and rhymes with hexit." There's no doubt that Scotland would be financially worse off if it left the UK. However, to assume that those of us who want to leave have been swayed by propaganda is just lazy thinking. You could just as well argue that that's what happened to the 55% who voted 'No' in 2014. In neither case, is it anything to do with propaganda. The case for staying, in 2014, was a good one. The Brexit vote, in 2016, fatally weakened that case by removing Scotland from the EU, against the will of over 60% of Scots. I know you're not bothered either way - most non-Scots aren't; though a vocal minority who are bothered, do get their say. To what end, who knows? Has to be said, though - and Brexit proved this - not everything is about money. Not even to Tories. | |||
"Northern Ireland and Scotland are a financial drain on england so good bye, farewell, no tears here They will both go when they have decided they will go. And it will be the people of ni and Scotland alone who will decide,not England. You won't get any say in it but as a taxpayer you are going to pay for it,in ni anyway,and pay for it for years after breakup of uk,probably for all your working life and your kids too Cry about that" You are from NI so it should be understood the Tax payers amongst the 60 million English will be better off without the historical nett drain generated by the 1.9 million NI population on their resources. Upon leaving, NI will also have to shoulder their share of the UK's £2.3 trillion national debt. The latest proposal is this should be in direct proportion to their land mass which is 5.7% of the UK. So a "good bye" debt of £131 billion or £69,000 for every man woman and child will be yours on independence day. Erm? "cry about that?"
However, NI will probably be ok as they will join with Eire as United Ireland and the EU will help them out. So bring it on! Good luck and may your God go with you! | |||
"I've never met a single English person who cares one way or another to be honest. If that's what they choose then so be it and England can concentrate on looking after itself "Im the same i dont know one English person who actually gives a monkeys its up to the people who live there to decide. | |||
"what's important is how people vote on the day and unionism has been stronlgy rejected in all nations. luckily Sinn Fein have now become the biggest party in the north of ireland. "It's a delightful irony that disunity amongst the Unionists in NI has led to Sinn Fein becoming the Party with the largest number of seats in Stormont. I wonder if that's lost on them? | |||
"People can easily be swayed to vote for something that isn't "economically astute", especially when patriotism is used as a propaganda tool. I wonder if there is a recent example of this. Hmmmmm. Something that starts with B and rhymes with hexit. There's no doubt that Scotland would be financially worse off if it left the UK. However, to assume that those of us who want to leave have been swayed by propaganda is just lazy thinking. You could just as well argue that that's what happened to the 55% who voted 'No' in 2014. In neither case, is it anything to do with propaganda. The case for staying, in 2014, was a good one. The Brexit vote, in 2016, fatally weakened that case by removing Scotland from the EU, against the will of over 60% of Scots. I know you're not bothered either way - most non-Scots aren't; though a vocal minority who are bothered, do get their say. To what end, who knows? Has to be said, though - and Brexit proved this - not everything is about money. Not even to Tories." Alice, you make good points but the focus of the SNP's drive for independence is "The English Westminster parliament ignores the needs of Scotland", "The English don't care about Scotland and the Scots" etc. The SNP have become politically very successful by wrapping themselves in the Saltire and saying the English don't like the Scots (Which is totally untrue). They know their target audience and it is clear that by focusing on driving a wedge between the English and Scots is a winning emotion based stategy. At the same time Nichola Sturgeon blames Westminister "underfunding" and "disinterest" for the poor education standards in Scotland and the failures of the Scottish NHS; even after 25 years of devolution and the fact Scotland receives more financial grant per capita than any other part of the UK. The Scottish share of the UK national debt is £500 billion which when added to its own direct debt will be a crippling burden once North sea oil and gas stop flowing. Although asked directly many times Ms Sturgeon neatly sidesteps questions on where the Scots will get their defence organisation from and what currency they will use. If they use the Pound Sterling then they will be under the control of the Bank of England so what of independence then? If they move to a Scottish coin then they will need years of financial stability before it will have any value. There are huge hurdles to overcome to get the last areas of independence like standing army and foreign policy from UK. I would like to see some serious discussion about what the benefits are before Scots vote on the basis of "Westminister does not love us". | |||
"Northern Ireland and Scotland are a financial drain on england so good bye, farewell, no tears here They will both go when they have decided they will go. And it will be the people of ni and Scotland alone who will decide,not England. You won't get any say in it but as a taxpayer you are going to pay for it,in ni anyway,and pay for it for years after breakup of uk,probably for all your working life and your kids too Cry about that You are from NI so it should be understood the Tax payers amongst the 60 million English will be better off without the historical nett drain generated by the 1.9 million NI population on their resources. Upon leaving, NI will also have to shoulder their share of the UK's £2.3 trillion national debt. The latest proposal is this should be in direct proportion to their land mass which is 5.7% of the UK. So a "good bye" debt of £131 billion or £69,000 for every man woman and child will be yours on independence day. Erm? "cry about that?"
However, NI will probably be ok as they will join with Eire as United Ireland and the EU will help them out. So bring it on! Good luck and may your God go with you! "You have negotiated the withdrawal of ni from uk already,where were you when frost and bojo were talking themselves in circles and making ties of themselves,they badly needed you. And I'm from the Republic,your debt won't cost me a penny | |||
"what's important is how people vote on the day and unionism has been stronlgy rejected in all nations. luckily Sinn Fein have now become the biggest party in the north of ireland.
It's a delightful irony that disunity amongst the Unionists in NI has led to Sinn Fein becoming the Party with the largest number of seats in Stormont.
I wonder if that's lost on them?"Sinn feins rise is on them not any unionists failings.altho it did help. Sinn fein are about to become the biggest party down south too next election People want change | |||
"I've never met a single English person who cares one way or another to be honest. If that's what they choose then so be it and England can concentrate on looking after itself Im the same i dont know one English person who actually gives a monkeys its up to the people who live there to decide."You may not know them personally but you do know English people who give a monkeys - they're in Westminster and they're not listening to your reasonable stance. As you - and, indeed, Nicola Sturgeon - say; it's for the people of Scotland to decide. Cameron, for all his faults, was the only UK PM to agree with that - and it was Alec Salmond, of all people, he conceded to, on democratic principle. The current one is never going to agree to IndyRef2 - even though most of his fellow citizens couldn't care less. The why of that is obvious, both from Boris and from those who don't care. | |||
"Northern Ireland and Scotland are a financial drain on england so good bye, farewell, no tears here They will both go when they have decided they will go. And it will be the people of ni and Scotland alone who will decide,not England. You won't get any say in it but as a taxpayer you are going to pay for it,in ni anyway,and pay for it for years after breakup of uk,probably for all your working life and your kids too Cry about that You are from NI so it should be understood the Tax payers amongst the 60 million English will be better off without the historical nett drain generated by the 1.9 million NI population on their resources. Upon leaving, NI will also have to shoulder their share of the UK's £2.3 trillion national debt. The latest proposal is this should be in direct proportion to their land mass which is 5.7% of the UK. So a "good bye" debt of £131 billion or £69,000 for every man woman and child will be yours on independence day. Erm? "cry about that?"
However, NI will probably be ok as they will join with Eire as United Ireland and the EU will help them out. So bring it on! Good luck and may your God go with you!
You have negotiated the withdrawal of ni from uk already,where were you when frost and bojo were talking themselves in circles and making ties of themselves,they badly needed you.
And I'm from the Republic,your debt won't cost me a penny"Ah right, I apologise, I mistook you for a UK NI person. Yes The Republic will benefit from a United Ireland but don't think it will not come at a cost to the Republic. Still it has been what the south has sought for 100 years so any price is worth paying isnt it? | |||
"People can easily be swayed to vote for something that isn't "economically astute", especially when patriotism is used as a propaganda tool. I wonder if there is a recent example of this. Hmmmmm. Something that starts with B and rhymes with hexit. There's no doubt that Scotland would be financially worse off if it left the UK. However, to assume that those of us who want to leave have been swayed by propaganda is just lazy thinking. You could just as well argue that that's what happened to the 55% who voted 'No' in 2014. In neither case, is it anything to do with propaganda. The case for staying, in 2014, was a good one. The Brexit vote, in 2016, fatally weakened that case by removing Scotland from the EU, against the will of over 60% of Scots. I know you're not bothered either way - most non-Scots aren't; though a vocal minority who are bothered, do get their say. To what end, who knows? Has to be said, though - and Brexit proved this - not everything is about money. Not even to Tories. Alice, you make good points but the focus of the SNP's drive for independence is "The English Westminster parliament ignores the needs of Scotland", "The English don't care about Scotland and the Scots" etc. The SNP have become politically very successful by wrapping themselves in the Saltire and saying the English don't like the Scots (Which is totally untrue). They know their target audience and it is clear that by focusing on driving a wedge between the English and Scots is a winning emotion based stategy. At the same time Nichola Sturgeon blames Westminister "underfunding" and "disinterest" for the poor education standards in Scotland and the failures of the Scottish NHS; even after 25 years of devolution and the fact Scotland receives more financial grant per capita than any other part of the UK. The Scottish share of the UK national debt is £500 billion which when added to its own direct debt will be a crippling burden once North sea oil and gas stop flowing. Although asked directly many times Ms Sturgeon neatly sidesteps questions on where the Scots will get their defence organisation from and what currency they will use. If they use the Pound Sterling then they will be under the control of the Bank of England so what of independence then? If they move to a Scottish coin then they will need years of financial stability before it will have any value. There are huge hurdles to overcome to get the last areas of independence like standing army and foreign policy from UK. I would like to see some serious discussion about what the benefits are before Scots vote on the basis of "Westminister does not love us". " Personally during indi ref 1 I thought the SNP had it in the bag. But then the whole economy and more precisely the currency issue seemed to blow them of course. To an outsider like me it looked like they were chopping and changing during the campaigning. They would have learnt from that and I would assume have a watertight plan for indi ref 2 | |||
"what's important is how people vote on the day and unionism has been stronlgy rejected in all nations. luckily Sinn Fein have now become the biggest party in the north of ireland.
It's a delightful irony that disunity amongst the Unionists in NI has led to Sinn Fein becoming the Party with the largest number of seats in Stormont.
I wonder if that's lost on them?
Sinn feins rise is on them not any unionists failings.altho it did help.
Sinn fein are about to become the biggest party down south too next election
People want change"I think you'll find it is on Unionist failings, ie. they're offering nothing worth voting for. Clearly, you're right that Sinn Fein have done the spadework and more people in Ireland want change than don't want it. It's a very gradual process, though - linked to demography. Like us Scots, you're going to have to be patient. I suspect you may get there faster than we do; partly because - and I mean no disrespect - a united Ireland is less of a headache for England's unionist Parties than an independent Scotland. | |||
"Northern Ireland and Scotland are a financial drain on england so good bye, farewell, no tears here They will both go when they have decided they will go. And it will be the people of ni and Scotland alone who will decide,not England. You won't get any say in it but as a taxpayer you are going to pay for it,in ni anyway,and pay for it for years after breakup of uk,probably for all your working life and your kids too Cry about that You are from NI so it should be understood the Tax payers amongst the 60 million English will be better off without the historical nett drain generated by the 1.9 million NI population on their resources. Upon leaving, NI will also have to shoulder their share of the UK's £2.3 trillion national debt. The latest proposal is this should be in direct proportion to their land mass which is 5.7% of the UK. So a "good bye" debt of £131 billion or £69,000 for every man woman and child will be yours on independence day. Erm? "cry about that?"
However, NI will probably be ok as they will join with Eire as United Ireland and the EU will help them out. So bring it on! Good luck and may your God go with you!
You have negotiated the withdrawal of ni from uk already,where were you when frost and bojo were talking themselves in circles and making ties of themselves,they badly needed you.
And I'm from the Republic,your debt won't cost me a penny
Ah right, I apologise, I mistook you for a UK NI person.
Yes The Republic will benefit from a United Ireland but don't think it will not come at a cost to the Republic. Still it has been what the south has sought for 100 years so any price is worth paying isnt it? "Try add up what it has cost us already,you can't. Cost benefit analysis is for business | |||
"what's important is how people vote on the day and unionism has been stronlgy rejected in all nations. luckily Sinn Fein have now become the biggest party in the north of ireland.
It's a delightful irony that disunity amongst the Unionists in NI has led to Sinn Fein becoming the Party with the largest number of seats in Stormont.
I wonder if that's lost on them?
Sinn feins rise is on them not any unionists failings.altho it did help.
Sinn fein are about to become the biggest party down south too next election
People want change
I think you'll find it is on Unionist failings, ie. they're offering nothing worth voting for.
Clearly, you're right that Sinn Fein have done the spadework and more people in Ireland want change than don't want it.
It's a very gradual process, though - linked to demography.
Like us Scots, you're going to have to be patient.
I suspect you may get there faster than we do; partly because - and I mean no disrespect - a united Ireland is less of a headache for England's unionist Parties than an independent Scotland."How fast and when we get there has zero to do with any of England's parties,it's in our own hands. We have to be patient for the peoples opinions and views to change that's all,not patient for any brit to grant us anything. | |||
"People can easily be swayed to vote for something that isn't "economically astute", especially when patriotism is used as a propaganda tool. I wonder if there is a recent example of this. Hmmmmm. Something that starts with B and rhymes with hexit. There's no doubt that Scotland would be financially worse off if it left the UK. However, to assume that those of us who want to leave have been swayed by propaganda is just lazy thinking. You could just as well argue that that's what happened to the 55% who voted 'No' in 2014. In neither case, is it anything to do with propaganda. The case for staying, in 2014, was a good one. The Brexit vote, in 2016, fatally weakened that case by removing Scotland from the EU, against the will of over 60% of Scots. I know you're not bothered either way - most non-Scots aren't; though a vocal minority who are bothered, do get their say. To what end, who knows? Has to be said, though - and Brexit proved this - not everything is about money. Not even to Tories. Alice, you make good points but the focus of the SNP's drive for independence is "The English Westminster parliament ignores the needs of Scotland", "The English don't care about Scotland and the Scots" etc. The SNP have become politically very successful by wrapping themselves in the Saltire and saying the English don't like the Scots (Which is totally untrue). They know their target audience and it is clear that by focusing on driving a wedge between the English and Scots is a winning emotion based stategy. At the same time Nichola Sturgeon blames Westminister "underfunding" and "disinterest" for the poor education standards in Scotland and the failures of the Scottish NHS; even after 25 years of devolution and the fact Scotland receives more financial grant per capita than any other part of the UK. The Scottish share of the UK national debt is £500 billion which when added to its own direct debt will be a crippling burden once North sea oil and gas stop flowing. Although asked directly many times Ms Sturgeon neatly sidesteps questions on where the Scots will get their defence organisation from and what currency they will use. If they use the Pound Sterling then they will be under the control of the Bank of England so what of independence then? If they move to a Scottish coin then they will need years of financial stability before it will have any value. There are huge hurdles to overcome to get the last areas of independence like standing army and foreign policy from UK. I would like to see some serious discussion about what the benefits are before Scots vote on the basis of "Westminister does not love us". " Westminster really doesn't give a shit about the people of Scotland. All they care about is the loss of landmass, territorial waters, potable water - just recently, oil, too - and having somewhere, other than the Thames, to park Trident. I've never denied the fact that Scotland would face financial difficulties if it becomes independent - that's obvious. However, as I've said before - and as Brexit proved - it's not all about money. Self determination is a benefit - even if it comes at a financial price. As for defence - especially post-Russia/Ukraine - the notion that Scotland won't become part of NATO as soon as it requests membership, is ridiculous. And for those who want to make the argument "Why should we benefit from Trident's deterrence if we don't base it, or pay for it any more?" Well, we won't - any more than Germany does; ie. not paying for something we can't use. As for the SNPs poor record - I agree. However, there's really no indication at all that any other Scottish Party would do better. The only way Labour will get the chance to prove they're up to the challenge - and it would be a huge one - is if Scotland becomes independent. If that happens, we no longer have to vote SNP, to effectively oppose any UK Tory government; which is the stalemate we're in now. The benefit to Scotland of independence is truly representative government. Only Unionists think that's too high a price to pay. | |||
"what's important is how people vote on the day and unionism has been stronlgy rejected in all nations. luckily Sinn Fein have now become the biggest party in the north of ireland.
It's a delightful irony that disunity amongst the Unionists in NI has led to Sinn Fein becoming the Party with the largest number of seats in Stormont.
I wonder if that's lost on them?
Sinn feins rise is on them not any unionists failings.altho it did help.
Sinn fein are about to become the biggest party down south too next election
People want change
I think you'll find it is on Unionist failings, ie. they're offering nothing worth voting for.
Clearly, you're right that Sinn Fein have done the spadework and more people in Ireland want change than don't want it.
It's a very gradual process, though - linked to demography.
Like us Scots, you're going to have to be patient.
I suspect you may get there faster than we do; partly because - and I mean no disrespect - a united Ireland is less of a headache for England's unionist Parties than an independent Scotland."You make a good point about patience. We aren't very good at patience. We want everything right now and we also them want to punish the past while we are at it. | |||
"what's important is how people vote on the day and unionism has been stronlgy rejected in all nations. luckily Sinn Fein have now become the biggest party in the north of ireland.
It's a delightful irony that disunity amongst the Unionists in NI has led to Sinn Fein becoming the Party with the largest number of seats in Stormont.
I wonder if that's lost on them?
Sinn feins rise is on them not any unionists failings.altho it did help.
Sinn fein are about to become the biggest party down south too next election
People want change
I think you'll find it is on Unionist failings, ie. they're offering nothing worth voting for.
Clearly, you're right that Sinn Fein have done the spadework and more people in Ireland want change than don't want it.
It's a very gradual process, though - linked to demography.
Like us Scots, you're going to have to be patient.
I suspect you may get there faster than we do; partly because - and I mean no disrespect - a united Ireland is less of a headache for England's unionist Parties than an independent Scotland.
How fast and when we get there has zero to do with any of England's parties,it's in our own hands.
We have to be patient for the peoples opinions and views to change that's all,not patient for any brit to grant us anything.
"That's not entirely true - legally - and you know it. I agree that it'll come because we want it; but, sadly, the UK Government does have to agree to certain conditions being triggered. They'll delay it as much as they can - they already have, for hundreds of years. The current shower are very much of that mindset. | |||
"People can easily be swayed to vote for something that isn't "economically astute", especially when patriotism is used as a propaganda tool. I wonder if there is a recent example of this. Hmmmmm. Something that starts with B and rhymes with hexit. There's no doubt that Scotland would be financially worse off if it left the UK. However, to assume that those of us who want to leave have been swayed by propaganda is just lazy thinking. You could just as well argue that that's what happened to the 55% who voted 'No' in 2014. In neither case, is it anything to do with propaganda. The case for staying, in 2014, was a good one. The Brexit vote, in 2016, fatally weakened that case by removing Scotland from the EU, against the will of over 60% of Scots. I know you're not bothered either way - most non-Scots aren't; though a vocal minority who are bothered, do get their say. To what end, who knows? Has to be said, though - and Brexit proved this - not everything is about money. Not even to Tories. Alice, you make good points but the focus of the SNP's drive for independence is "The English Westminster parliament ignores the needs of Scotland", "The English don't care about Scotland and the Scots" etc. The SNP have become politically very successful by wrapping themselves in the Saltire and saying the English don't like the Scots (Which is totally untrue). They know their target audience and it is clear that by focusing on driving a wedge between the English and Scots is a winning emotion based stategy. At the same time Nichola Sturgeon blames Westminister "underfunding" and "disinterest" for the poor education standards in Scotland and the failures of the Scottish NHS; even after 25 years of devolution and the fact Scotland receives more financial grant per capita than any other part of the UK. The Scottish share of the UK national debt is £500 billion which when added to its own direct debt will be a crippling burden once North sea oil and gas stop flowing. Although asked directly many times Ms Sturgeon neatly sidesteps questions on where the Scots will get their defence organisation from and what currency they will use. If they use the Pound Sterling then they will be under the control of the Bank of England so what of independence then? If they move to a Scottish coin then they will need years of financial stability before it will have any value. There are huge hurdles to overcome to get the last areas of independence like standing army and foreign policy from UK. I would like to see some serious discussion about what the benefits are before Scots vote on the basis of "Westminister does not love us". Personally during indi ref 1 I thought the SNP had it in the bag. But then the whole economy and more precisely the currency issue seemed to blow them of course. To an outsider like me it looked like they were chopping and changing during the campaigning. They would have learnt from that and I would assume have a watertight plan for indi ref 2 " Yes and no; no further plan. Just "Westminister hates us, let's leave". | |||
"what's important is how people vote on the day and unionism has been stronlgy rejected in all nations. luckily Sinn Fein have now become the biggest party in the north of ireland.
It's a delightful irony that disunity amongst the Unionists in NI has led to Sinn Fein becoming the Party with the largest number of seats in Stormont.
I wonder if that's lost on them?
Sinn feins rise is on them not any unionists failings.altho it did help.
Sinn fein are about to become the biggest party down south too next election
People want change
I think you'll find it is on Unionist failings, ie. they're offering nothing worth voting for.
Clearly, you're right that Sinn Fein have done the spadework and more people in Ireland want change than don't want it.
It's a very gradual process, though - linked to demography.
Like us Scots, you're going to have to be patient.
I suspect you may get there faster than we do; partly because - and I mean no disrespect - a united Ireland is less of a headache for England's unionist Parties than an independent Scotland.
How fast and when we get there has zero to do with any of England's parties,it's in our own hands.
We have to be patient for the peoples opinions and views to change that's all,not patient for any brit to grant us anything.
That's not entirely true - legally - and you know it. I agree that it'll come because we want it; but, sadly, the UK Government does have to agree to certain conditions being triggered.
They'll delay it as much as they can - they already have, for hundreds of years.
The current shower are very much of that mindset."They can delay fuck all. Nor sure how it is in Scotland but we have the GFA, And according to that when a majority want a poll in Ireland we will get a border poll. | |||
"what's important is how people vote on the day and unionism has been stronlgy rejected in all nations. luckily Sinn Fein have now become the biggest party in the north of ireland.
It's a delightful irony that disunity amongst the Unionists in NI has led to Sinn Fein becoming the Party with the largest number of seats in Stormont.
I wonder if that's lost on them?
Sinn feins rise is on them not any unionists failings.altho it did help.
Sinn fein are about to become the biggest party down south too next election
People want change
I think you'll find it is on Unionist failings, ie. they're offering nothing worth voting for.
Clearly, you're right that Sinn Fein have done the spadework and more people in Ireland want change than don't want it.
It's a very gradual process, though - linked to demography.
Like us Scots, you're going to have to be patient.
I suspect you may get there faster than we do; partly because - and I mean no disrespect - a united Ireland is less of a headache for England's unionist Parties than an independent Scotland.
How fast and when we get there has zero to do with any of England's parties,it's in our own hands.
We have to be patient for the peoples opinions and views to change that's all,not patient for any brit to grant us anything.
That's not entirely true - legally - and you know it. I agree that it'll come because we want it; but, sadly, the UK Government does have to agree to certain conditions being triggered.
They'll delay it as much as they can - they already have, for hundreds of years.
The current shower are very much of that mindset.
They can delay fuck all.
Nor sure how it is in Scotland but we have the GFA,
And according to that when a majority want a poll in Ireland we will get a border poll."Scotland needs the UK parliament in Westminister to agree or any referendum is not legitimate and unlawful. It was agreed under Cameron for a "once in a lifetime" vote in 2014. It would appear the SNP agreed to that muttering "lifetime of a newt" under their breath with their fingers crossed behind their backs. | |||
"People can easily be swayed to vote for something that isn't "economically astute", especially when patriotism is used as a propaganda tool. I wonder if there is a recent example of this. Hmmmmm. Something that starts with B and rhymes with hexit. There's no doubt that Scotland would be financially worse off if it left the UK. However, to assume that those of us who want to leave have been swayed by propaganda is just lazy thinking. You could just as well argue that that's what happened to the 55% who voted 'No' in 2014. In neither case, is it anything to do with propaganda. The case for staying, in 2014, was a good one. The Brexit vote, in 2016, fatally weakened that case by removing Scotland from the EU, against the will of over 60% of Scots. I know you're not bothered either way - most non-Scots aren't; though a vocal minority who are bothered, do get their say. To what end, who knows? Has to be said, though - and Brexit proved this - not everything is about money. Not even to Tories. Alice, you make good points but the focus of the SNP's drive for independence is "The English Westminster parliament ignores the needs of Scotland", "The English don't care about Scotland and the Scots" etc. The SNP have become politically very successful by wrapping themselves in the Saltire and saying the English don't like the Scots (Which is totally untrue). They know their target audience and it is clear that by focusing on driving a wedge between the English and Scots is a winning emotion based stategy. At the same time Nichola Sturgeon blames Westminister "underfunding" and "disinterest" for the poor education standards in Scotland and the failures of the Scottish NHS; even after 25 years of devolution and the fact Scotland receives more financial grant per capita than any other part of the UK. The Scottish share of the UK national debt is £500 billion which when added to its own direct debt will be a crippling burden once North sea oil and gas stop flowing. Although asked directly many times Ms Sturgeon neatly sidesteps questions on where the Scots will get their defence organisation from and what currency they will use. If they use the Pound Sterling then they will be under the control of the Bank of England so what of independence then? If they move to a Scottish coin then they will need years of financial stability before it will have any value. There are huge hurdles to overcome to get the last areas of independence like standing army and foreign policy from UK. I would like to see some serious discussion about what the benefits are before Scots vote on the basis of "Westminister does not love us". " …. there isn’t the appetite in the Scottish electorate for a second referendum any time soon - certainly not in the next 2-5 years - possibly longer. The snp vote share at the locals has shown this (if you want to take that as a measure of the current sentiment) and alongside polling conducted specifically asking the question of a referendum. Sturgeon needs to focus on sorting out the stuff her government have devolved responsibility for first. Trust in the SNP is waining - at a greater rate than the SNp will admit to - ask anyone about the Ferries fiasco (which escalating at pace and is moving in the realms of being a full blown criminal investigation). The serious mess of the ferries is only the tip of the iceberg ! SNP are bad for Scotland, and we are starting to realise that. | |||
"what's important is how people vote on the day and unionism has been stronlgy rejected in all nations. luckily Sinn Fein have now become the biggest party in the north of ireland.
It's a delightful irony that disunity amongst the Unionists in NI has led to Sinn Fein becoming the Party with the largest number of seats in Stormont.
I wonder if that's lost on them?
Sinn feins rise is on them not any unionists failings.altho it did help.
Sinn fein are about to become the biggest party down south too next election
People want change
I think you'll find it is on Unionist failings, ie. they're offering nothing worth voting for.
Clearly, you're right that Sinn Fein have done the spadework and more people in Ireland want change than don't want it.
It's a very gradual process, though - linked to demography.
Like us Scots, you're going to have to be patient.
I suspect you may get there faster than we do; partly because - and I mean no disrespect - a united Ireland is less of a headache for England's unionist Parties than an independent Scotland.
How fast and when we get there has zero to do with any of England's parties,it's in our own hands.
We have to be patient for the peoples opinions and views to change that's all,not patient for any brit to grant us anything.
That's not entirely true - legally - and you know it. I agree that it'll come because we want it; but, sadly, the UK Government does have to agree to certain conditions being triggered.
They'll delay it as much as they can - they already have, for hundreds of years.
The current shower are very much of that mindset.
They can delay fuck all.
Nor sure how it is in Scotland but we have the GFA,
And according to that when a majority want a poll in Ireland we will get a border poll.
Scotland needs the UK parliament in Westminister to agree or any referendum is not legitimate and unlawful.
It was agreed under Cameron for a "once in a lifetime" vote in 2014. It would appear the SNP agreed to that muttering "lifetime of a newt" under their breath with their fingers crossed behind their backs.
"Cameron liked a referendum... Worked really well for us... | |||
"Northern Ireland and Scotland are a financial drain on england so good bye, farewell, no tears here" Ooo goodie can we stop subsidising London too? | |||
"People can easily be swayed to vote for something that isn't "economically astute", especially when patriotism is used as a propaganda tool. I wonder if there is a recent example of this. Hmmmmm. Something that starts with B and rhymes with hexit. There's no doubt that Scotland would be financially worse off if it left the UK. However, to assume that those of us who want to leave have been swayed by propaganda is just lazy thinking. You could just as well argue that that's what happened to the 55% who voted 'No' in 2014. In neither case, is it anything to do with propaganda. The case for staying, in 2014, was a good one. The Brexit vote, in 2016, fatally weakened that case by removing Scotland from the EU, against the will of over 60% of Scots. I know you're not bothered either way - most non-Scots aren't; though a vocal minority who are bothered, do get their say. To what end, who knows? Has to be said, though - and Brexit proved this - not everything is about money. Not even to Tories. Alice, you make good points but the focus of the SNP's drive for independence is "The English Westminster parliament ignores the needs of Scotland", "The English don't care about Scotland and the Scots" etc. The SNP have become politically very successful by wrapping themselves in the Saltire and saying the English don't like the Scots (Which is totally untrue). They know their target audience and it is clear that by focusing on driving a wedge between the English and Scots is a winning emotion based stategy. At the same time Nichola Sturgeon blames Westminister "underfunding" and "disinterest" for the poor education standards in Scotland and the failures of the Scottish NHS; even after 25 years of devolution and the fact Scotland receives more financial grant per capita than any other part of the UK. The Scottish share of the UK national debt is £500 billion which when added to its own direct debt will be a crippling burden once North sea oil and gas stop flowing. Although asked directly many times Ms Sturgeon neatly sidesteps questions on where the Scots will get their defence organisation from and what currency they will use. If they use the Pound Sterling then they will be under the control of the Bank of England so what of independence then? If they move to a Scottish coin then they will need years of financial stability before it will have any value. There are huge hurdles to overcome to get the last areas of independence like standing army and foreign policy from UK. I would like to see some serious discussion about what the benefits are before Scots vote on the basis of "Westminister does not love us". …. there isn’t the appetite in the Scottish electorate for a second referendum any time soon - certainly not in the next 2-5 years - possibly longer. The snp vote share at the locals has shown this (if you want to take that as a measure of the current sentiment) and alongside polling conducted specifically asking the question of a referendum. Sturgeon needs to focus on sorting out the stuff her government have devolved responsibility for first. Trust in the SNP is waining - at a greater rate than the SNp will admit to - ask anyone about the Ferries fiasco (which escalating at pace and is moving in the realms of being a full blown criminal investigation). The serious mess of the ferries is only the tip of the iceberg ! SNP are bad for Scotland, and we are starting to realise that." Sturgeon is the Trump of the North. It does not matter what she screws up or what she does wrong her Teflon coating sheds the shit and she is viewed as perfect in hours by her followers. I live in Scotland and don't hold out too much hope of any great realiasation by the SNP following masses anytime soon. | |||
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"NS is too obsessed with Indy ref 2. She really doesn’t give a toss about wellbeing of the Scottish people. The SNP has let scotland get worse during their tenure. What is mildly interesting is that whenever she is questioned on her poor performance regarding public services and the issues surrounding state education, she then rattles the Indy ref sabre, and see the brainwashed masses rush to vote for the SNP. Look Scotland, wake up, she is more interested in power now, and the trappings of her office now to ever give scotland an independent voice. If you want a devo max government fine, nation of equals, fine, just stop being seduced by the SNP’s unrealistic expectations, they are the same as Brexit. You’ve got the equivalent of UKIP in charge, but more fluffy around the edges." The prospect of rejoining the EU is the big draw for scottish independence since the last referendum. If I was Scottish, I would be seriously thinking about it. | |||
"NS is too obsessed with Indy ref 2. She really doesn’t give a toss about wellbeing of the Scottish people. The SNP has let scotland get worse during their tenure. What is mildly interesting is that whenever she is questioned on her poor performance regarding public services and the issues surrounding state education, she then rattles the Indy ref sabre, and see the brainwashed masses rush to vote for the SNP. Look Scotland, wake up, she is more interested in power now, and the trappings of her office now to ever give scotland an independent voice. If you want a devo max government fine, nation of equals, fine, just stop being seduced by the SNP’s unrealistic expectations, they are the same as Brexit. You’ve got the equivalent of UKIP in charge, but more fluffy around the edges. The prospect of rejoining the EU is the big draw for scottish independence since the last referendum. If I was Scottish, I would be seriously thinking about it." To join the EU they need financial stability, and to meet various other criteria, one of which is none of the 27 states vetos them. The Basque region of Spain wants autonomy from Spain so Scotland will be used as an example by Spain to disuade the Basques from seeking independence. If Scotland remains a £ sterling area independence will mean nothing except they have less money to throw around. If they set up their own currency then it will take years to show stability; if it ever does. If the try and link to the Euro it will be even worse. I would like to hear what is proposed rather than the SNP "Westminister hates the Scots" rhetoric of this time. | |||
"NS is too obsessed with Indy ref 2. She really doesn’t give a toss about wellbeing of the Scottish people. The SNP has let scotland get worse during their tenure. What is mildly interesting is that whenever she is questioned on her poor performance regarding public services and the issues surrounding state education, she then rattles the Indy ref sabre, and see the brainwashed masses rush to vote for the SNP. Look Scotland, wake up, she is more interested in power now, and the trappings of her office now to ever give scotland an independent voice. If you want a devo max government fine, nation of equals, fine, just stop being seduced by the SNP’s unrealistic expectations, they are the same as Brexit. You’ve got the equivalent of UKIP in charge, but more fluffy around the edges. The prospect of rejoining the EU is the big draw for scottish independence since the last referendum. If I was Scottish, I would be seriously thinking about it. To join the EU they need financial stability, and to meet various other criteria, one of which is none of the 27 states vetos them. The Basque region of Spain wants autonomy from Spain so Scotland will be used as an example by Spain to disuade the Basques from seeking independence. If Scotland remains a £ sterling area independence will mean nothing except they have less money to throw around. If they set up their own currency then it will take years to show stability; if it ever does. If the try and link to the Euro it will be even worse. I would like to hear what is proposed rather than the SNP "Westminister hates the Scots" rhetoric of this time. " Yeah if they could propose how to tackle some of those issues, amongst the many others. That would help. And for sure, joining the EU is no picnic. There's a whole load of countries trying to join that haven't met the grade. But it could be better for Scotland to try, than being tied to the sinking ship. | |||
"NS is too obsessed with Indy ref 2. She really doesn’t give a toss about wellbeing of the Scottish people. The SNP has let scotland get worse during their tenure. What is mildly interesting is that whenever she is questioned on her poor performance regarding public services and the issues surrounding state education, she then rattles the Indy ref sabre, and see the brainwashed masses rush to vote for the SNP. Look Scotland, wake up, she is more interested in power now, and the trappings of her office now to ever give scotland an independent voice. If you want a devo max government fine, nation of equals, fine, just stop being seduced by the SNP’s unrealistic expectations, they are the same as Brexit. You’ve got the equivalent of UKIP in charge, but more fluffy around the edges. The prospect of rejoining the EU is the big draw for scottish independence since the last referendum. If I was Scottish, I would be seriously thinking about it. To join the EU they need financial stability, and to meet various other criteria, one of which is none of the 27 states vetos them. The Basque region of Spain wants autonomy from Spain so Scotland will be used as an example by Spain to disuade the Basques from seeking independence. If Scotland remains a £ sterling area independence will mean nothing except they have less money to throw around. If they set up their own currency then it will take years to show stability; if it ever does. If the try and link to the Euro it will be even worse. I would like to hear what is proposed rather than the SNP "Westminister hates the Scots" rhetoric of this time. Yeah if they could propose how to tackle some of those issues, amongst the many others. That would help. And for sure, joining the EU is no picnic. There's a whole load of countries trying to join that haven't met the grade. But it could be better for Scotland to try, than being tied to the sinking ship. " Sinking ship  . You see that’s funny - it’s actually Scotland under the SNP Government that is the sinking ship - that is of course if they had managed to build any ships to sink ! | |||
| |||
"NS is too obsessed with Indy ref 2. She really doesn’t give a toss about wellbeing of the Scottish people. The SNP has let scotland get worse during their tenure. What is mildly interesting is that whenever she is questioned on her poor performance regarding public services and the issues surrounding state education, she then rattles the Indy ref sabre, and see the brainwashed masses rush to vote for the SNP. Look Scotland, wake up, she is more interested in power now, and the trappings of her office now to ever give scotland an independent voice. If you want a devo max government fine, nation of equals, fine, just stop being seduced by the SNP’s unrealistic expectations, they are the same as Brexit. You’ve got the equivalent of UKIP in charge, but more fluffy around the edges. The prospect of rejoining the EU is the big draw for scottish independence since the last referendum. If I was Scottish, I would be seriously thinking about it. To join the EU they need financial stability, and to meet various other criteria, one of which is none of the 27 states vetos them. The Basque region of Spain wants autonomy from Spain so Scotland will be used as an example by Spain to disuade the Basques from seeking independence. If Scotland remains a £ sterling area independence will mean nothing except they have less money to throw around. If they set up their own currency then it will take years to show stability; if it ever does. If the try and link to the Euro it will be even worse. I would like to hear what is proposed rather than the SNP "Westminister hates the Scots" rhetoric of this time. Yeah if they could propose how to tackle some of those issues, amongst the many others. That would help. And for sure, joining the EU is no picnic. There's a whole load of countries trying to join that haven't met the grade. But it could be better for Scotland to try, than being tied to the sinking ship. Sinking ship . You see that’s funny - it’s actually Scotland under the SNP Government that is the sinking ship - that is of course if they had managed to build any ships to sink !" | |||
"NS is too obsessed with Indy ref 2. She really doesn’t give a toss about wellbeing of the Scottish people. The SNP has let scotland get worse during their tenure. What is mildly interesting is that whenever she is questioned on her poor performance regarding public services and the issues surrounding state education, she then rattles the Indy ref sabre, and see the brainwashed masses rush to vote for the SNP. Look Scotland, wake up, she is more interested in power now, and the trappings of her office now to ever give scotland an independent voice. If you want a devo max government fine, nation of equals, fine, just stop being seduced by the SNP’s unrealistic expectations, they are the same as Brexit. You’ve got the equivalent of UKIP in charge, but more fluffy around the edges. The prospect of rejoining the EU is the big draw for scottish independence since the last referendum. If I was Scottish, I would be seriously thinking about it." while it's an additional draw in theory, the border problem becomes bigger than NI ! | |||
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| |||
"NS is too obsessed with Indy ref 2. She really doesn’t give a toss about wellbeing of the Scottish people. The SNP has let scotland get worse during their tenure. What is mildly interesting is that whenever she is questioned on her poor performance regarding public services and the issues surrounding state education, she then rattles the Indy ref sabre, and see the brainwashed masses rush to vote for the SNP. Look Scotland, wake up, she is more interested in power now, and the trappings of her office now to ever give scotland an independent voice. If you want a devo max government fine, nation of equals, fine, just stop being seduced by the SNP’s unrealistic expectations, they are the same as Brexit. You’ve got the equivalent of UKIP in charge, but more fluffy around the edges. The prospect of rejoining the EU is the big draw for scottish independence since the last referendum. If I was Scottish, I would be seriously thinking about it. To join the EU they need financial stability, and to meet various other criteria, one of which is none of the 27 states vetos them. The Basque region of Spain wants autonomy from Spain so Scotland will be used as an example by Spain to disuade the Basques from seeking independence. If Scotland remains a £ sterling area independence will mean nothing except they have less money to throw around. If they set up their own currency then it will take years to show stability; if it ever does. If the try and link to the Euro it will be even worse. I would like to hear what is proposed rather than the SNP "Westminister hates the Scots" rhetoric of this time. Yeah if they could propose how to tackle some of those issues, amongst the many others. That would help. And for sure, joining the EU is no picnic. There's a whole load of countries trying to join that haven't met the grade. But it could be better for Scotland to try, than being tied to the sinking ship. Sinking ship . You see that’s funny - it’s actually Scotland under the SNP Government that is the sinking ship - that is of course if they had managed to build any ships to sink !"If scotland under the snp is a sinking ship as you say can you explain why they keep winning every election ? Maybe you should stick to english politics as you dont seem to know much about scotland or its politics | |||
"NS is too obsessed with Indy ref 2. She really doesn’t give a toss about wellbeing of the Scottish people. The SNP has let scotland get worse during their tenure. What is mildly interesting is that whenever she is questioned on her poor performance regarding public services and the issues surrounding state education, she then rattles the Indy ref sabre, and see the brainwashed masses rush to vote for the SNP. Look Scotland, wake up, she is more interested in power now, and the trappings of her office now to ever give scotland an independent voice. If you want a devo max government fine, nation of equals, fine, just stop being seduced by the SNP’s unrealistic expectations, they are the same as Brexit. You’ve got the equivalent of UKIP in charge, but more fluffy around the edges. The prospect of rejoining the EU is the big draw for scottish independence since the last referendum. If I was Scottish, I would be seriously thinking about it. To join the EU they need financial stability, and to meet various other criteria, one of which is none of the 27 states vetos them. The Basque region of Spain wants autonomy from Spain so Scotland will be used as an example by Spain to disuade the Basques from seeking independence. If Scotland remains a £ sterling area independence will mean nothing except they have less money to throw around. If they set up their own currency then it will take years to show stability; if it ever does. If the try and link to the Euro it will be even worse. I would like to hear what is proposed rather than the SNP "Westminister hates the Scots" rhetoric of this time. Yeah if they could propose how to tackle some of those issues, amongst the many others. That would help. And for sure, joining the EU is no picnic. There's a whole load of countries trying to join that haven't met the grade. But it could be better for Scotland to try, than being tied to the sinking ship. Sinking ship . You see that’s funny - it’s actually Scotland under the SNP Government that is the sinking ship - that is of course if they had managed to build any ships to sink !
If scotland under the snp is a sinking ship as you say can you explain why they keep winning every election ? Maybe you should stick to english politics as you dont seem to know much about scotland or its politics "Better still explain why the do as it bafals us English ? | |||
"NS is too obsessed with Indy ref 2. She really doesn’t give a toss about wellbeing of the Scottish people. The SNP has let scotland get worse during their tenure. What is mildly interesting is that whenever she is questioned on her poor performance regarding public services and the issues surrounding state education, she then rattles the Indy ref sabre, and see the brainwashed masses rush to vote for the SNP. Look Scotland, wake up, she is more interested in power now, and the trappings of her office now to ever give scotland an independent voice. If you want a devo max government fine, nation of equals, fine, just stop being seduced by the SNP’s unrealistic expectations, they are the same as Brexit. You’ve got the equivalent of UKIP in charge, but more fluffy around the edges. The prospect of rejoining the EU is the big draw for scottish independence since the last referendum. If I was Scottish, I would be seriously thinking about it. To join the EU they need financial stability, and to meet various other criteria, one of which is none of the 27 states vetos them. The Basque region of Spain wants autonomy from Spain so Scotland will be used as an example by Spain to disuade the Basques from seeking independence. If Scotland remains a £ sterling area independence will mean nothing except they have less money to throw around. If they set up their own currency then it will take years to show stability; if it ever does. If the try and link to the Euro it will be even worse. I would like to hear what is proposed rather than the SNP "Westminister hates the Scots" rhetoric of this time. Yeah if they could propose how to tackle some of those issues, amongst the many others. That would help. And for sure, joining the EU is no picnic. There's a whole load of countries trying to join that haven't met the grade. But it could be better for Scotland to try, than being tied to the sinking ship. Sinking ship . You see that’s funny - it’s actually Scotland under the SNP Government that is the sinking ship - that is of course if they had managed to build any ships to sink !
If scotland under the snp is a sinking ship as you say can you explain why they keep winning every election ? Maybe you should stick to english politics as you dont seem to know much about scotland or its politics "Where are the ferries? More importantly, why has the paperwork disappeared/been destroyed? I suspect this is another “I don’t recall” moment from wee nippie . Scotland deserves better | |||
| |||
"What's so bad about a united kingdom?" Reminds me of the elvis cistello song... What's so funny 'bout peace love and understanding? But it's a good question. Clearly some are deeply exercised by the idea. | |||
"How about England having a vote for independence from the rest of the uk ." Your days of dictating other countries fates are long gone. | |||
"How about England having a vote for independence from the rest of the uk . Your days of dictating other countries fates are long gone. " I'd settle for improving the fate of our own country right now... | |||
"NS is too obsessed with Indy ref 2. She really doesn’t give a toss about wellbeing of the Scottish people. The SNP has let scotland get worse during their tenure. What is mildly interesting is that whenever she is questioned on her poor performance regarding public services and the issues surrounding state education, she then rattles the Indy ref sabre, and see the brainwashed masses rush to vote for the SNP. Look Scotland, wake up, she is more interested in power now, and the trappings of her office now to ever give scotland an independent voice. If you want a devo max government fine, nation of equals, fine, just stop being seduced by the SNP’s unrealistic expectations, they are the same as Brexit. You’ve got the equivalent of UKIP in charge, but more fluffy around the edges. The prospect of rejoining the EU is the big draw for scottish independence since the last referendum. If I was Scottish, I would be seriously thinking about it. To join the EU they need financial stability, and to meet various other criteria, one of which is none of the 27 states vetos them. The Basque region of Spain wants autonomy from Spain so Scotland will be used as an example by Spain to disuade the Basques from seeking independence. If Scotland remains a £ sterling area independence will mean nothing except they have less money to throw around. If they set up their own currency then it will take years to show stability; if it ever does. If the try and link to the Euro it will be even worse. I would like to hear what is proposed rather than the SNP "Westminister hates the Scots" rhetoric of this time. Yeah if they could propose how to tackle some of those issues, amongst the many others. That would help. And for sure, joining the EU is no picnic. There's a whole load of countries trying to join that haven't met the grade. But it could be better for Scotland to try, than being tied to the sinking ship. Sinking ship . You see that’s funny - it’s actually Scotland under the SNP Government that is the sinking ship - that is of course if they had managed to build any ships to sink !
If scotland under the snp is a sinking ship as you say can you explain why they keep winning every election ? Maybe you should stick to english politics as you dont seem to know much about scotland or its politics
Better still explain why the do as it bafals us English ?"Because a significant number of Scots want independence and see support for the SNP as being their only way of demonstrating their will. The SNP are only the independence vehicle, once that destination is secure and in line with almost any other country, support for the SNP will start to split as other political parties come up with national policies to map the way forwards post-independence. The attitude that you display is exactly why we no longer have an empire and why their is increasing Nationalist sentiment in N Ireland, Scotland and increasingly in Wales. Far too many English people (including generations of politicians) have regarded non-English people as unequals who should feel grateful to the English for accommodating them. A little humility and an effort to understand other people and other cultures would have resulted in an entirely different post-Empire United Kingdom. Instead, we English have become consumed by our own Exceptionalism and lost our best friends, closest trading partners and nearest neighbours in the process. It is my opinion that in my lifetime, England will be a country sharing an island with two other independent country’s and will be snarling and agitated looking North, West and South because our neighbours refuse to accept just how spiffingly wonderful we English are. Ungrateful bastards lol | |||
"How about England having a vote for independence from the rest of the uk . Your days of dictating other countries fates are long gone. I'd settle for improving the fate of our own country right now... " Lolz, we're heading in the wrong direction fast with a narcissist dickhead at the wheel. | |||
"NS is too obsessed with Indy ref 2. She really doesn’t give a toss about wellbeing of the Scottish people. The SNP has let scotland get worse during their tenure. What is mildly interesting is that whenever she is questioned on her poor performance regarding public services and the issues surrounding state education, she then rattles the Indy ref sabre, and see the brainwashed masses rush to vote for the SNP. Look Scotland, wake up, she is more interested in power now, and the trappings of her office now to ever give scotland an independent voice. If you want a devo max government fine, nation of equals, fine, just stop being seduced by the SNP’s unrealistic expectations, they are the same as Brexit. You’ve got the equivalent of UKIP in charge, but more fluffy around the edges. The prospect of rejoining the EU is the big draw for scottish independence since the last referendum. If I was Scottish, I would be seriously thinking about it. To join the EU they need financial stability, and to meet various other criteria, one of which is none of the 27 states vetos them. The Basque region of Spain wants autonomy from Spain so Scotland will be used as an example by Spain to disuade the Basques from seeking independence. If Scotland remains a £ sterling area independence will mean nothing except they have less money to throw around. If they set up their own currency then it will take years to show stability; if it ever does. If the try and link to the Euro it will be even worse. I would like to hear what is proposed rather than the SNP "Westminister hates the Scots" rhetoric of this time. Yeah if they could propose how to tackle some of those issues, amongst the many others. That would help. And for sure, joining the EU is no picnic. There's a whole load of countries trying to join that haven't met the grade. But it could be better for Scotland to try, than being tied to the sinking ship. Sinking ship . You see that’s funny - it’s actually Scotland under the SNP Government that is the sinking ship - that is of course if they had managed to build any ships to sink !
If scotland under the snp is a sinking ship as you say can you explain why they keep winning every election ? Maybe you should stick to english politics as you dont seem to know much about scotland or its politics "I’ll tell you why they keep winning every recent election, it’s about being passive aggressive. The SNP is just the latest party to stick it to the man, before it was voting Labour. I suspect it’s because of the general abuse that Scotland received for hundreds of years by the English. Devolution gave more freedom and more money, so in fact the Barnet formula is probably considered reparations for all the shitty stuff that happened. So why stop milking the cash rich south for? What I do not understand for a country with so many people voting SNP and them being in control, why haven’t they left yet? My only conclusion is this, squeeze England for everything it’s got, before you leave. Its very cold and ruthless. If that isn’t the biggest FU, I don’t know what is. | |||
"NS is too obsessed with Indy ref 2. She really doesn’t give a toss about wellbeing of the Scottish people. The SNP has let scotland get worse during their tenure. What is mildly interesting is that whenever she is questioned on her poor performance regarding public services and the issues surrounding state education, she then rattles the Indy ref sabre, and see the brainwashed masses rush to vote for the SNP. Look Scotland, wake up, she is more interested in power now, and the trappings of her office now to ever give scotland an independent voice. If you want a devo max government fine, nation of equals, fine, just stop being seduced by the SNP’s unrealistic expectations, they are the same as Brexit. You’ve got the equivalent of UKIP in charge, but more fluffy around the edges. The prospect of rejoining the EU is the big draw for scottish independence since the last referendum. If I was Scottish, I would be seriously thinking about it. To join the EU they need financial stability, and to meet various other criteria, one of which is none of the 27 states vetos them. The Basque region of Spain wants autonomy from Spain so Scotland will be used as an example by Spain to disuade the Basques from seeking independence. If Scotland remains a £ sterling area independence will mean nothing except they have less money to throw around. If they set up their own currency then it will take years to show stability; if it ever does. If the try and link to the Euro it will be even worse. I would like to hear what is proposed rather than the SNP "Westminister hates the Scots" rhetoric of this time. Yeah if they could propose how to tackle some of those issues, amongst the many others. That would help. And for sure, joining the EU is no picnic. There's a whole load of countries trying to join that haven't met the grade. But it could be better for Scotland to try, than being tied to the sinking ship. Sinking ship . You see that’s funny - it’s actually Scotland under the SNP Government that is the sinking ship - that is of course if they had managed to build any ships to sink !
If scotland under the snp is a sinking ship as you say can you explain why they keep winning every election ? Maybe you should stick to english politics as you dont seem to know much about scotland or its politics
Better still explain why the do as it bafals us English ?
Because a significant number of Scots want independence and see support for the SNP as being their only way of demonstrating their will.
The SNP are only the independence vehicle, once that destination is secure and in line with almost any other country, support for the SNP will start to split as other political parties come up with national policies to map the way forwards post-independence.
The attitude that you display is exactly why we no longer have an empire and why their is increasing Nationalist sentiment in N Ireland, Scotland and increasingly in Wales.
Far too many English people (including generations of politicians) have regarded non-English people as unequals who should feel grateful to the English for accommodating them.
A little humility and an effort to understand other people and other cultures would have resulted in an entirely different post-Empire United Kingdom.
Instead, we English have become consumed by our own Exceptionalism and lost our best friends, closest trading partners and nearest neighbours in the process.
It is my opinion that in my lifetime, England will be a country sharing an island with two other independent country’s and will be snarling and agitated looking North, West and South because our neighbours refuse to accept just how spiffingly wonderful we English are.
Ungrateful bastards lol "Thanks your answer is spot on cheers | |||
"How about England having a vote for independence from the rest of the uk ." Would you need a section 30 to leave? | |||
"NS is too obsessed with Indy ref 2. She really doesn’t give a toss about wellbeing of the Scottish people. The SNP has let scotland get worse during their tenure. What is mildly interesting is that whenever she is questioned on her poor performance regarding public services and the issues surrounding state education, she then rattles the Indy ref sabre, and see the brainwashed masses rush to vote for the SNP. Look Scotland, wake up, she is more interested in power now, and the trappings of her office now to ever give scotland an independent voice. If you want a devo max government fine, nation of equals, fine, just stop being seduced by the SNP’s unrealistic expectations, they are the same as Brexit. You’ve got the equivalent of UKIP in charge, but more fluffy around the edges. The prospect of rejoining the EU is the big draw for scottish independence since the last referendum. If I was Scottish, I would be seriously thinking about it. To join the EU they need financial stability, and to meet various other criteria, one of which is none of the 27 states vetos them. The Basque region of Spain wants autonomy from Spain so Scotland will be used as an example by Spain to disuade the Basques from seeking independence. If Scotland remains a £ sterling area independence will mean nothing except they have less money to throw around. If they set up their own currency then it will take years to show stability; if it ever does. If the try and link to the Euro it will be even worse. I would like to hear what is proposed rather than the SNP "Westminister hates the Scots" rhetoric of this time. Yeah if they could propose how to tackle some of those issues, amongst the many others. That would help. And for sure, joining the EU is no picnic. There's a whole load of countries trying to join that haven't met the grade. But it could be better for Scotland to try, than being tied to the sinking ship. Sinking ship . You see that’s funny - it’s actually Scotland under the SNP Government that is the sinking ship - that is of course if they had managed to build any ships to sink !
If scotland under the snp is a sinking ship as you say can you explain why they keep winning every election ? Maybe you should stick to english politics as you dont seem to know much about scotland or its politics
Where are the ferries?
More importantly, why has the paperwork disappeared/been destroyed?
I suspect this is another “I don’t recall” moment from wee nippie .
Scotland deserves better "So you cant answer then, and just go on bashing the snp and resort to childish name calling,and maybe you can tell us when crossrail,hs2 will be finished and how many billions over buget they are ? | |||
"NS is too obsessed with Indy ref 2. She really doesn’t give a toss about wellbeing of the Scottish people. The SNP has let scotland get worse during their tenure. What is mildly interesting is that whenever she is questioned on her poor performance regarding public services and the issues surrounding state education, she then rattles the Indy ref sabre, and see the brainwashed masses rush to vote for the SNP. Look Scotland, wake up, she is more interested in power now, and the trappings of her office now to ever give scotland an independent voice. If you want a devo max government fine, nation of equals, fine, just stop being seduced by the SNP’s unrealistic expectations, they are the same as Brexit. You’ve got the equivalent of UKIP in charge, but more fluffy around the edges. The prospect of rejoining the EU is the big draw for scottish independence since the last referendum. If I was Scottish, I would be seriously thinking about it. To join the EU they need financial stability, and to meet various other criteria, one of which is none of the 27 states vetos them. The Basque region of Spain wants autonomy from Spain so Scotland will be used as an example by Spain to disuade the Basques from seeking independence. If Scotland remains a £ sterling area independence will mean nothing except they have less money to throw around. If they set up their own currency then it will take years to show stability; if it ever does. If the try and link to the Euro it will be even worse. I would like to hear what is proposed rather than the SNP "Westminister hates the Scots" rhetoric of this time. Yeah if they could propose how to tackle some of those issues, amongst the many others. That would help. And for sure, joining the EU is no picnic. There's a whole load of countries trying to join that haven't met the grade. But it could be better for Scotland to try, than being tied to the sinking ship. Sinking ship . You see that’s funny - it’s actually Scotland under the SNP Government that is the sinking ship - that is of course if they had managed to build any ships to sink !
If scotland under the snp is a sinking ship as you say can you explain why they keep winning every election ? Maybe you should stick to english politics as you dont seem to know much about scotland or its politics
Better still explain why the do as it bafals us English ?
Because a significant number of Scots want independence and see support for the SNP as being their only way of demonstrating their will.
The SNP are only the independence vehicle, once that destination is secure and in line with almost any other country, support for the SNP will start to split as other political parties come up with national policies to map the way forwards post-independence.
The attitude that you display is exactly why we no longer have an empire and why their is increasing Nationalist sentiment in N Ireland, Scotland and increasingly in Wales.
Far too many English people (including generations of politicians) have regarded non-English people as unequals who should feel grateful to the English for accommodating them.
A little humility and an effort to understand other people and other cultures would have resulted in an entirely different post-Empire United Kingdom.
Instead, we English have become consumed by our own Exceptionalism and lost our best friends, closest trading partners and nearest neighbours in the process.
It is my opinion that in my lifetime, England will be a country sharing an island with two other independent country’s and will be snarling and agitated looking North, West and South because our neighbours refuse to accept just how spiffingly wonderful we English are.
Ungrateful bastards lol
Thanks your answer is spot on cheers "Then explain why so many risk their lives to get here ? | |||
"NS is too obsessed with Indy ref 2. She really doesn’t give a toss about wellbeing of the Scottish people. The SNP has let scotland get worse during their tenure. What is mildly interesting is that whenever she is questioned on her poor performance regarding public services and the issues surrounding state education, she then rattles the Indy ref sabre, and see the brainwashed masses rush to vote for the SNP. Look Scotland, wake up, she is more interested in power now, and the trappings of her office now to ever give scotland an independent voice. If you want a devo max government fine, nation of equals, fine, just stop being seduced by the SNP’s unrealistic expectations, they are the same as Brexit. You’ve got the equivalent of UKIP in charge, but more fluffy around the edges. The prospect of rejoining the EU is the big draw for scottish independence since the last referendum. If I was Scottish, I would be seriously thinking about it. To join the EU they need financial stability, and to meet various other criteria, one of which is none of the 27 states vetos them. The Basque region of Spain wants autonomy from Spain so Scotland will be used as an example by Spain to disuade the Basques from seeking independence. If Scotland remains a £ sterling area independence will mean nothing except they have less money to throw around. If they set up their own currency then it will take years to show stability; if it ever does. If the try and link to the Euro it will be even worse. I would like to hear what is proposed rather than the SNP "Westminister hates the Scots" rhetoric of this time. Yeah if they could propose how to tackle some of those issues, amongst the many others. That would help. And for sure, joining the EU is no picnic. There's a whole load of countries trying to join that haven't met the grade. But it could be better for Scotland to try, than being tied to the sinking ship. Sinking ship . You see that’s funny - it’s actually Scotland under the SNP Government that is the sinking ship - that is of course if they had managed to build any ships to sink !
If scotland under the snp is a sinking ship as you say can you explain why they keep winning every election ? Maybe you should stick to english politics as you dont seem to know much about scotland or its politics
Where are the ferries?
More importantly, why has the paperwork disappeared/been destroyed?
I suspect this is another “I don’t recall” moment from wee nippie .
Scotland deserves better
So you cant answer then, and just go on bashing the snp and resort to childish name calling,and maybe you can tell us when crossrail,hs2 will be finished and how many billions over buget they are ?"Only 1 in 7 voted for the SNP on Thursday - the curtain is being pulled back and the glaring truths are being revealed . It’s clearly becoming harder to ignore, even within the ranks of the indoctrinated Nats - the Scottish Nationalist Party are failing in all parts of Scotland. So, ignore the ferries and the wasted 220 million and the dodgy contract that has been destroyed/lost - how about the half billion covid cash unaccounted for … as highlighted by the national audit office … money that should have been distributed to the people of Scotland … it’s going to be another opportunity to hear “I have no recollection” isn’t it! It’s only a matter of time before the house of cards collapses. There is hope though, good to see the LibDems in Edinburgh city council have ruled out working with the SNP - “ People across Edinburgh turned to us because they wanted a new and different approach. We heard time and time again on the doorsteps how voters were fed up with the SNP’s arrogance, its centralised approach, and its inability to get basic council services right. The election offered the chance for real change. “During our discussions over the weekend, it became clear that SNP councillors have learned nothing from the difficulties of the last Council term and plan to simply continue with their previous approach. Liberal Democrats believe the people of Edinburgh deserve better than this. It is why our group has agreed we will not enter into any agreement with the SNP on Edinburgh Council. ” Let’s hope this is replicated across all regions of Scotland | |||
"NS is too obsessed with Indy ref 2. She really doesn’t give a toss about wellbeing of the Scottish people. The SNP has let scotland get worse during their tenure. What is mildly interesting is that whenever she is questioned on her poor performance regarding public services and the issues surrounding state education, she then rattles the Indy ref sabre, and see the brainwashed masses rush to vote for the SNP. Look Scotland, wake up, she is more interested in power now, and the trappings of her office now to ever give scotland an independent voice. If you want a devo max government fine, nation of equals, fine, just stop being seduced by the SNP’s unrealistic expectations, they are the same as Brexit. You’ve got the equivalent of UKIP in charge, but more fluffy around the edges. The prospect of rejoining the EU is the big draw for scottish independence since the last referendum. If I was Scottish, I would be seriously thinking about it. To join the EU they need financial stability, and to meet various other criteria, one of which is none of the 27 states vetos them. The Basque region of Spain wants autonomy from Spain so Scotland will be used as an example by Spain to disuade the Basques from seeking independence. If Scotland remains a £ sterling area independence will mean nothing except they have less money to throw around. If they set up their own currency then it will take years to show stability; if it ever does. If the try and link to the Euro it will be even worse. I would like to hear what is proposed rather than the SNP "Westminister hates the Scots" rhetoric of this time. Yeah if they could propose how to tackle some of those issues, amongst the many others. That would help. And for sure, joining the EU is no picnic. There's a whole load of countries trying to join that haven't met the grade. But it could be better for Scotland to try, than being tied to the sinking ship. Sinking ship . You see that’s funny - it’s actually Scotland under the SNP Government that is the sinking ship - that is of course if they had managed to build any ships to sink !
If scotland under the snp is a sinking ship as you say can you explain why they keep winning every election ? Maybe you should stick to english politics as you dont seem to know much about scotland or its politics
Where are the ferries?
More importantly, why has the paperwork disappeared/been destroyed?
I suspect this is another “I don’t recall” moment from wee nippie .
Scotland deserves better
So you cant answer then, and just go on bashing the snp and resort to childish name calling,and maybe you can tell us when crossrail,hs2 will be finished and how many billions over buget they are ?
Only 1 in 7 voted for the SNP on Thursday - the curtain is being pulled back and the glaring truths are being revealed .
It’s clearly becoming harder to ignore, even within the ranks of the indoctrinated Nats - the Scottish Nationalist Party are failing in all parts of Scotland.
So, ignore the ferries and the wasted 220 million and the dodgy contract that has been destroyed/lost - how about the half billion covid cash unaccounted for … as highlighted by the national audit office … money that should have been distributed to the people of Scotland … it’s going to be another opportunity to hear “I have no recollection” isn’t it!
It’s only a matter of time before the house of cards collapses.
There is hope though, good to see the LibDems in Edinburgh city council have ruled out working with the SNP - “ People across Edinburgh turned to us because they wanted a new and different approach. We heard time and time again on the doorsteps how voters were fed up with the SNP’s arrogance, its centralised approach, and its inability to get basic council services right. The election offered the chance for real change.
“During our discussions over the weekend, it became clear that SNP councillors have learned nothing from the difficulties of the last Council term and plan to simply continue with their previous approach. Liberal Democrats believe the people of Edinburgh deserve better than this. It is why our group has agreed we will not enter into any agreement with the SNP on Edinburgh Council. ”
Let’s hope this is replicated across all regions of Scotland
"your deluded mate stop reading the daily mail and telegraph lol,as an english person maybe start looking at the wasted billions on crossrail hs2,track and trace and many more ,the snp are the strongest party in scotland and will get us independence in 2023  | |||
"NS is too obsessed with Indy ref 2. She really doesn’t give a toss about wellbeing of the Scottish people. The SNP has let scotland get worse during their tenure. What is mildly interesting is that whenever she is questioned on her poor performance regarding public services and the issues surrounding state education, she then rattles the Indy ref sabre, and see the brainwashed masses rush to vote for the SNP. Look Scotland, wake up, she is more interested in power now, and the trappings of her office now to ever give scotland an independent voice. If you want a devo max government fine, nation of equals, fine, just stop being seduced by the SNP’s unrealistic expectations, they are the same as Brexit. You’ve got the equivalent of UKIP in charge, but more fluffy around the edges. The prospect of rejoining the EU is the big draw for scottish independence since the last referendum. If I was Scottish, I would be seriously thinking about it. To join the EU they need financial stability, and to meet various other criteria, one of which is none of the 27 states vetos them. The Basque region of Spain wants autonomy from Spain so Scotland will be used as an example by Spain to disuade the Basques from seeking independence. If Scotland remains a £ sterling area independence will mean nothing except they have less money to throw around. If they set up their own currency then it will take years to show stability; if it ever does. If the try and link to the Euro it will be even worse. I would like to hear what is proposed rather than the SNP "Westminister hates the Scots" rhetoric of this time. Yeah if they could propose how to tackle some of those issues, amongst the many others. That would help. And for sure, joining the EU is no picnic. There's a whole load of countries trying to join that haven't met the grade. But it could be better for Scotland to try, than being tied to the sinking ship. Sinking ship . You see that’s funny - it’s actually Scotland under the SNP Government that is the sinking ship - that is of course if they had managed to build any ships to sink !
If scotland under the snp is a sinking ship as you say can you explain why they keep winning every election ? Maybe you should stick to english politics as you dont seem to know much about scotland or its politics
Better still explain why the do as it bafals us English ?
Because a significant number of Scots want independence and see support for the SNP as being their only way of demonstrating their will.
The SNP are only the independence vehicle, once that destination is secure and in line with almost any other country, support for the SNP will start to split as other political parties come up with national policies to map the way forwards post-independence.
The attitude that you display is exactly why we no longer have an empire and why their is increasing Nationalist sentiment in N Ireland, Scotland and increasingly in Wales.
Far too many English people (including generations of politicians) have regarded non-English people as unequals who should feel grateful to the English for accommodating them.
A little humility and an effort to understand other people and other cultures would have resulted in an entirely different post-Empire United Kingdom.
Instead, we English have become consumed by our own Exceptionalism and lost our best friends, closest trading partners and nearest neighbours in the process.
It is my opinion that in my lifetime, England will be a country sharing an island with two other independent country’s and will be snarling and agitated looking North, West and South because our neighbours refuse to accept just how spiffingly wonderful we English are.
Ungrateful bastards lol
Thanks your answer is spot on cheers
Then explain why so many risk their lives to get here ?"You are doing the same thing again. The U.K. receives far fewer asylum seekers than our European counterparts and those that do come could be motivated by any number of issues: language, connections, prior entitlement and more. There is a huge difference between a person fleeing current day war, torture, famine and/or persecution than a 100 year long evaporation of an empire. There is quite literally no connect between for example a tied empire/subjugated nation seeking to do their own thing and an individual person looking for a better life. Surely you can see that? Look at your own attitude and look back in history to how the U.K. has lampooned all of its former colonies who dared to want to row their own boat. It’s all there in the history books. But tell me if these often used phrases than have been used since the turn of the 20th Century sound familiar. “They need us more than we need them.” “They can’t afford independence.” “They should be grateful for how much we supported them.” “After everything we did for them and now they want independence.” “If you don’t want us, we don’t want you.” “Go then, you will be sorry.” That kind of attitude is why we are where we are and Brexit was just one of the stepping stones along the way. Once we accept that we are a small island and that we need equal and fair co-operation and alliances in order to get on in the world- the sooner Great Britain (or possibly just England by then) might make meaningful progress in the world. | |||
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"NS is too obsessed with Indy ref 2. She really doesn’t give a toss about wellbeing of the Scottish people. The SNP has let scotland get worse during their tenure. What is mildly interesting is that whenever she is questioned on her poor performance regarding public services and the issues surrounding state education, she then rattles the Indy ref sabre, and see the brainwashed masses rush to vote for the SNP. Look Scotland, wake up, she is more interested in power now, and the trappings of her office now to ever give scotland an independent voice. If you want a devo max government fine, nation of equals, fine, just stop being seduced by the SNP’s unrealistic expectations, they are the same as Brexit. You’ve got the equivalent of UKIP in charge, but more fluffy around the edges. The prospect of rejoining the EU is the big draw for scottish independence since the last referendum. If I was Scottish, I would be seriously thinking about it. To join the EU they need financial stability, and to meet various other criteria, one of which is none of the 27 states vetos them. The Basque region of Spain wants autonomy from Spain so Scotland will be used as an example by Spain to disuade the Basques from seeking independence. If Scotland remains a £ sterling area independence will mean nothing except they have less money to throw around. If they set up their own currency then it will take years to show stability; if it ever does. If the try and link to the Euro it will be even worse. I would like to hear what is proposed rather than the SNP "Westminister hates the Scots" rhetoric of this time. Yeah if they could propose how to tackle some of those issues, amongst the many others. That would help. And for sure, joining the EU is no picnic. There's a whole load of countries trying to join that haven't met the grade. But it could be better for Scotland to try, than being tied to the sinking ship. Sinking ship . You see that’s funny - it’s actually Scotland under the SNP Government that is the sinking ship - that is of course if they had managed to build any ships to sink !
If scotland under the snp is a sinking ship as you say can you explain why they keep winning every election ? Maybe you should stick to english politics as you dont seem to know much about scotland or its politics
Where are the ferries?
More importantly, why has the paperwork disappeared/been destroyed?
I suspect this is another “I don’t recall” moment from wee nippie .
Scotland deserves better
So you cant answer then, and just go on bashing the snp and resort to childish name calling,and maybe you can tell us when crossrail,hs2 will be finished and how many billions over buget they are ?
Only 1 in 7 voted for the SNP on Thursday - the curtain is being pulled back and the glaring truths are being revealed .
It’s clearly becoming harder to ignore, even within the ranks of the indoctrinated Nats - the Scottish Nationalist Party are failing in all parts of Scotland.
So, ignore the ferries and the wasted 220 million and the dodgy contract that has been destroyed/lost - how about the half billion covid cash unaccounted for … as highlighted by the national audit office … money that should have been distributed to the people of Scotland … it’s going to be another opportunity to hear “I have no recollection” isn’t it!
It’s only a matter of time before the house of cards collapses.
There is hope though, good to see the LibDems in Edinburgh city council have ruled out working with the SNP - “ People across Edinburgh turned to us because they wanted a new and different approach. We heard time and time again on the doorsteps how voters were fed up with the SNP’s arrogance, its centralised approach, and its inability to get basic council services right. The election offered the chance for real change.
“During our discussions over the weekend, it became clear that SNP councillors have learned nothing from the difficulties of the last Council term and plan to simply continue with their previous approach. Liberal Democrats believe the people of Edinburgh deserve better than this. It is why our group has agreed we will not enter into any agreement with the SNP on Edinburgh Council. ”
Let’s hope this is replicated across all regions of Scotland
your deluded mate stop reading the daily mail and telegraph lol,as an english person maybe start looking at the wasted billions on crossrail hs2,track and trace and many more ,the snp are the strongest party in scotland and will get us independence in 2023 "Typical nationalist sentiment, single issue parties are terrible at the whole running the rest of the country type stuff. It’s a recurring theme. I think like brexit, some of the Scottish are seeing independence through rose-tinted glasses. They have this vision of scotland past. Don’t be like the Brexiteers, be realistic and take a long hard look at the represcussions of what you’re asking for, there is no going back, and you will end up with possibly 50-100 years of turmoil before you even get any stability. | |||
"If the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland is so great - why have we got ever increasing Nationalist sentiment in Scotland, N Ireland & Wales? Are these nations seeing what the Empire started to see at the turn of the 20th Century and are any English people broad enough in the shoulder, and honest enough to understand why there has been and continues to be a desire to disassociate from Westminster?" Nationalism is like religion. A believer will believe anything they are told by their leaders. NI's perceived nationalism relates to Brexit and the bloody mess Boris made of the border issue. Now the chance to join with the Republic and rejoin the EU, which is what the NI voters wanted, is getting more attractive. Scotland has been led for the last 15 years by the SNP who's primary focus is independence. The Scots have therefore been fed a rich diet of how bad Westminister is and how an independent Scotland would be Utopia. | |||
"If the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland is so great - why have we got ever increasing Nationalist sentiment in Scotland, N Ireland & Wales? Are these nations seeing what the Empire started to see at the turn of the 20th Century and are any English people broad enough in the shoulder, and honest enough to understand why there has been and continues to be a desire to disassociate from Westminster? Nationalism is like religion. A believer will believe anything they are told by their leaders. NI's perceived nationalism relates to Brexit and the bloody mess Boris made of the border issue. Now the chance to join with the Republic and rejoin the EU, which is what the NI voters wanted, is getting more attractive. Scotland has been led for the last 15 years by the SNP who's primary focus is independence. The Scots have therefore been fed a rich diet of how bad Westminister is and how an independent Scotland would be Utopia. " This is so true,in my life time people have gone from believing in religion and quoting from the bible,that most house holds kept a copy of to now quoting the ipcc report on climate change,not many ever read the bible nor have they read the ipcc report (4000 pages) Same nationalism Sturgeon in my mind is a post turtle. | |||
"NS is too obsessed with Indy ref 2. She really doesn’t give a toss about wellbeing of the Scottish people. The SNP has let scotland get worse during their tenure. What is mildly interesting is that whenever she is questioned on her poor performance regarding public services and the issues surrounding state education, she then rattles the Indy ref sabre, and see the brainwashed masses rush to vote for the SNP. Look Scotland, wake up, she is more interested in power now, and the trappings of her office now to ever give scotland an independent voice. If you want a devo max government fine, nation of equals, fine, just stop being seduced by the SNP’s unrealistic expectations, they are the same as Brexit. You’ve got the equivalent of UKIP in charge, but more fluffy around the edges. The prospect of rejoining the EU is the big draw for scottish independence since the last referendum. If I was Scottish, I would be seriously thinking about it. To join the EU they need financial stability, and to meet various other criteria, one of which is none of the 27 states vetos them. The Basque region of Spain wants autonomy from Spain so Scotland will be used as an example by Spain to disuade the Basques from seeking independence. If Scotland remains a £ sterling area independence will mean nothing except they have less money to throw around. If they set up their own currency then it will take years to show stability; if it ever does. If the try and link to the Euro it will be even worse. I would like to hear what is proposed rather than the SNP "Westminister hates the Scots" rhetoric of this time. Yeah if they could propose how to tackle some of those issues, amongst the many others. That would help. And for sure, joining the EU is no picnic. There's a whole load of countries trying to join that haven't met the grade. But it could be better for Scotland to try, than being tied to the sinking ship. Sinking ship . You see that’s funny - it’s actually Scotland under the SNP Government that is the sinking ship - that is of course if they had managed to build any ships to sink !
If scotland under the snp is a sinking ship as you say can you explain why they keep winning every election ? Maybe you should stick to english politics as you dont seem to know much about scotland or its politics
Where are the ferries?
More importantly, why has the paperwork disappeared/been destroyed?
I suspect this is another “I don’t recall” moment from wee nippie .
Scotland deserves better
So you cant answer then, and just go on bashing the snp and resort to childish name calling,and maybe you can tell us when crossrail,hs2 will be finished and how many billions over buget they are ?
Only 1 in 7 voted for the SNP on Thursday - the curtain is being pulled back and the glaring truths are being revealed .
It’s clearly becoming harder to ignore, even within the ranks of the indoctrinated Nats - the Scottish Nationalist Party are failing in all parts of Scotland.
So, ignore the ferries and the wasted 220 million and the dodgy contract that has been destroyed/lost - how about the half billion covid cash unaccounted for … as highlighted by the national audit office … money that should have been distributed to the people of Scotland … it’s going to be another opportunity to hear “I have no recollection” isn’t it!
It’s only a matter of time before the house of cards collapses.
There is hope though, good to see the LibDems in Edinburgh city council have ruled out working with the SNP - “ People across Edinburgh turned to us because they wanted a new and different approach. We heard time and time again on the doorsteps how voters were fed up with the SNP’s arrogance, its centralised approach, and its inability to get basic council services right. The election offered the chance for real change.
“During our discussions over the weekend, it became clear that SNP councillors have learned nothing from the difficulties of the last Council term and plan to simply continue with their previous approach. Liberal Democrats believe the people of Edinburgh deserve better than this. It is why our group has agreed we will not enter into any agreement with the SNP on Edinburgh Council. ”
Let’s hope this is replicated across all regions of Scotland
your deluded mate stop reading the daily mail and telegraph lol,as an english person maybe start looking at the wasted billions on crossrail hs2,track and trace and many more ,the snp are the strongest party in scotland and will get us independence in 2023 " the guy is Scottish.  | |||
"NS is too obsessed with Indy ref 2. She really doesn’t give a toss about wellbeing of the Scottish people. The SNP has let scotland get worse during their tenure. What is mildly interesting is that whenever she is questioned on her poor performance regarding public services and the issues surrounding state education, she then rattles the Indy ref sabre, and see the brainwashed masses rush to vote for the SNP. Look Scotland, wake up, she is more interested in power now, and the trappings of her office now to ever give scotland an independent voice. If you want a devo max government fine, nation of equals, fine, just stop being seduced by the SNP’s unrealistic expectations, they are the same as Brexit. You’ve got the equivalent of UKIP in charge, but more fluffy around the edges. The prospect of rejoining the EU is the big draw for scottish independence since the last referendum. If I was Scottish, I would be seriously thinking about it. To join the EU they need financial stability, and to meet various other criteria, one of which is none of the 27 states vetos them. The Basque region of Spain wants autonomy from Spain so Scotland will be used as an example by Spain to disuade the Basques from seeking independence. If Scotland remains a £ sterling area independence will mean nothing except they have less money to throw around. If they set up their own currency then it will take years to show stability; if it ever does. If the try and link to the Euro it will be even worse. I would like to hear what is proposed rather than the SNP "Westminister hates the Scots" rhetoric of this time. Yeah if they could propose how to tackle some of those issues, amongst the many others. That would help. And for sure, joining the EU is no picnic. There's a whole load of countries trying to join that haven't met the grade. But it could be better for Scotland to try, than being tied to the sinking ship. Sinking ship . You see that’s funny - it’s actually Scotland under the SNP Government that is the sinking ship - that is of course if they had managed to build any ships to sink !
If scotland under the snp is a sinking ship as you say can you explain why they keep winning every election ? Maybe you should stick to english politics as you dont seem to know much about scotland or its politics
Where are the ferries?
More importantly, why has the paperwork disappeared/been destroyed?
I suspect this is another “I don’t recall” moment from wee nippie .
Scotland deserves better
So you cant answer then, and just go on bashing the snp and resort to childish name calling,and maybe you can tell us when crossrail,hs2 will be finished and how many billions over buget they are ?
Only 1 in 7 voted for the SNP on Thursday - the curtain is being pulled back and the glaring truths are being revealed .
It’s clearly becoming harder to ignore, even within the ranks of the indoctrinated Nats - the Scottish Nationalist Party are failing in all parts of Scotland.
So, ignore the ferries and the wasted 220 million and the dodgy contract that has been destroyed/lost - how about the half billion covid cash unaccounted for … as highlighted by the national audit office … money that should have been distributed to the people of Scotland … it’s going to be another opportunity to hear “I have no recollection” isn’t it!
It’s only a matter of time before the house of cards collapses.
There is hope though, good to see the LibDems in Edinburgh city council have ruled out working with the SNP - “ People across Edinburgh turned to us because they wanted a new and different approach. We heard time and time again on the doorsteps how voters were fed up with the SNP’s arrogance, its centralised approach, and its inability to get basic council services right. The election offered the chance for real change.
“During our discussions over the weekend, it became clear that SNP councillors have learned nothing from the difficulties of the last Council term and plan to simply continue with their previous approach. Liberal Democrats believe the people of Edinburgh deserve better than this. It is why our group has agreed we will not enter into any agreement with the SNP on Edinburgh Council. ”
Let’s hope this is replicated across all regions of Scotland
"Two quotes come to mind. "Politicians and diapers must be changed often, and for the same reason" (erroneously attributed to Mark Twain.) "Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely." Political parties and politicians that stay in power too long become corrupt and stale; more interested in defending their failures than fixing them. After 15 years it is time the SNP propaganda was seen for what it is. The failing education system, massive debt and substandard NHS Scotland are entirely down to the SNP. But as they wave the Saltire yet again the faithful will salute it. | |||
"Nationalism is like religion. A believer will believe anything they are told by their leaders. " this is why the most extreme form of nationalism that is the ideology of Johnski's conservative and unionist party is so prevelant. the zealots who blindly follow the party's agressive 'british nationalism ruled by england' dogma regardless of the damage it does are truly fanatical nationalist militants of the highest degree.... they just pretend that they are not thinking nobody has noticed. | |||
"Northern Ireland and Scotland are a financial drain on england so good bye, farewell, no tears here" Any vote on unification will include ALL the people of Ireland. So, its highly likely it will be a NO vote. Who wants to take on an economical basket case? | |||
"Northern Ireland and Scotland are a financial drain on england so good bye, farewell, no tears here Any vote on unification will include ALL the people of Ireland. So, its highly likely it will be a NO vote. Who wants to take on an economical basket case? " RE. Northern Ireland. I thought Republicans fought for 20 years to take back the north? Surely now they are going to be offered it they will not say no because of a little economic problem? | |||
"Northern Ireland and Scotland are a financial drain on england so good bye, farewell, no tears here Any vote on unification will include ALL the people of Ireland. So, its highly likely it will be a NO vote. Who wants to take on an economical basket case? " What makes you say that? I'm aware of opinion polls in North but not so south and reasoning would say it would be overwhelmingly yes | |||
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"Northern Ireland and Scotland are a financial drain on england so good bye, farewell, no tears here Any vote on unification will include ALL the people of Ireland. So, its highly likely it will be a NO vote. Who wants to take on an economical basket case? RE. Northern Ireland. I thought Republicans fought for 20 years to take back the north? Surely now they are going to be offered it they will not say no because of a little economic problem?" Not everyone in the Republic is a republican But most want a United ireland | |||
"Northern Ireland and Scotland are a financial drain on england so good bye, farewell, no tears here Any vote on unification will include ALL the people of Ireland. So, its highly likely it will be a NO vote. Who wants to take on an economical basket case? RE. Northern Ireland. I thought Republicans fought for 20 years to take back the north? Surely now they are going to be offered it they will not say no because of a little economic problem? Not everyone in the Republic is a republican But most want a United ireland" Not everyone? I know there are some republicans in the uk but surely no monarchists in Eire? | |||
"Northern Ireland and Scotland are a financial drain on england so good bye, farewell, no tears here Any vote on unification will include ALL the people of Ireland. So, its highly likely it will be a NO vote. Who wants to take on an economical basket case? " I think that it is attitudes like this that harden the attitudes of those seeking a united Ireland. Imagine if West Germany had declined to unify with East Germany after the Cold War because East Germany was an economic basket case!!! It's an absurd argument. Northern Ireland is stolen land - and sooner or later it will have to be handed back to its rightful owners. | |||
"Northern Ireland and Scotland are a financial drain on england so good bye, farewell, no tears here Any vote on unification will include ALL the people of Ireland. So, its highly likely it will be a NO vote. Who wants to take on an economical basket case? I think that it is attitudes like this that harden the attitudes of those seeking a united Ireland. Imagine if West Germany had declined to unify with East Germany after the Cold War because East Germany was an economic basket case!!! It's an absurd argument. Northern Ireland is stolen land - and sooner or later it will have to be handed back to its rightful owners." This I believe, but I wonder if the younger generations of Unionist voters will be persuaded? I imagine that if it happens there might be a lot of Northern Irish immigration to England! | |||
"Northern Ireland and Scotland are a financial drain on england so good bye, farewell, no tears here Any vote on unification will include ALL the people of Ireland. So, its highly likely it will be a NO vote. Who wants to take on an economical basket case? RE. Northern Ireland. I thought Republicans fought for 20 years to take back the north? Surely now they are going to be offered it they will not say no because of a little economic problem? Not everyone in the Republic is a republican But most want a United ireland Not everyone? I know there are some republicans in the uk but surely no monarchists in Eire? "
An Irish republican has nothing to do with a constitutional republican
Here would be seen as a sinn fein supporter,and in past an ira supporter,as opposed to the more moderate Irish nationalist | |||
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"Northern Ireland and Scotland are a financial drain on england so good bye, farewell, no tears here Any vote on unification will include ALL the people of Ireland. So, its highly likely it will be a NO vote. Who wants to take on an economical basket case? RE. Northern Ireland. I thought Republicans fought for 20 years to take back the north? Surely now they are going to be offered it they will not say no because of a little economic problem? Not everyone in the Republic is a republican But most want a United ireland Not everyone? I know there are some republicans in the uk but surely no monarchists in Eire? " There are a few royalists still in the republic but they want a shared monarch not political unification with the UK. | |||
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"Removing the emotion and history from the discussion is a challenge. But the decision (if one is to be taken) is surely what will be best outcome for the residents... Socially, culturally, economically.? As we saw with the brexit "debate" (I use the term in its loosest sense), I suspect there are not enough people who have a vote with sufficient knowledge to understand the impacts of one outcome v the other outcome. It's a nice idea that people know what is best for them but I'm not sure it is always true. " Yeah I think people refuse to consider the consequences of millions of people being thrown about between countries and of artefacts being returned. And also of the impact on the world and assume others will remains silent on us. I was born two years after some absolute morons destroyed a priceless Scottish Artefact wanting to return it to its “rightful place”.Got to remember these passions don’t magically disappear post independence. Bad example but we stop teaching our wars of independence history often after the treaty of Edinburgh.Of course it was all peace and the English were so threatened they never returned. Well the government in England that signed it was overthrown quite literally and the New English came to Punish what they saw as its backers thousands were killed and Scotland devastated. That part is never taught cause we like to think of things as clean and isolated but thats never the case. | |||
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"Has anyone on here read up and have any feedback on how our armed forces would be weakened? Genuine question " Weakened irrecoverably thats why there won’t be a unification referendum.Theres definitely been backroom talks. Expect the official Uk armed forces to crumble to nearly half strength and for ships to be taken out of action.The UK’s mobility will also be threatened as we have obligations to maintain 10,000 men around the world regardless of situation. | |||
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"Wow you lot are a cheerful bunch. Also it's almost like people are rubbing their hand's together gleefully at the idea." No "almost"about it. | |||
"Weakened irrecoverably thats why there won’t be a unification referendum.Theres definitely been backroom talks. Expect the official Uk armed forces to crumble to nearly half strength and for ships to be taken out of action.The UK’s mobility will also be threatened as we have obligations to maintain 10,000 men around the world regardless of situation." Bonus | |||
"Weakened irrecoverably thats why there won’t be a unification referendum.Theres definitely been backroom talks. Expect the official Uk armed forces to crumble to nearly half strength and for ships to be taken out of action.The UK’s mobility will also be threatened as we have obligations to maintain 10,000 men around the world regardless of situation. Bonus "Pity it's a couple of decades late for 100,000s of innocent iraqis | |||
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"Weakened irrecoverably thats why there won’t be a unification referendum.Theres definitely been backroom talks. Expect the official Uk armed forces to crumble to nearly half strength and for ships to be taken out of action.The UK’s mobility will also be threatened as we have obligations to maintain 10,000 men around the world regardless of situation. Bonus
Pity it's a couple of decades late for 100,000s of innocent iraqis"agreed ... but better late than never hey | |||
"Has anyone on here read up and have any feedback on how our armed forces would be weakened? Genuine question Weakened irrecoverably thats why there won’t be a unification referendum.Theres definitely been backroom talks. Expect the official Uk armed forces to crumble to nearly half strength and for ships to be taken out of action.The UK’s mobility will also be threatened as we have obligations to maintain 10,000 men around the world regardless of situation." They could always bring back conscription.  | |||
"I think yez should all settle down a bit and ‘take a deep breath’ Firstly.... Sinn Fein didn’t win any new seats... it stayed exactly the same. The DUP lost out, but the big winners were the Alliance with an increase of 9 seats. And don’t expect a border poll anytime soon, even the glorious leader of Sinn Fein, Mary Lou has ruled it out. To put it in basic terms, the good people of Northern Ireland have more things on their minds than borders, flags or having to learn Irish in school. Whatever about Scotland and Wales... the ‘Union’ is safe for now. " The good people of Ireland just made sinn fein the biggest party in Northern Ireland,so they do care about those things you list because that is part of the party they just voted for mandate. And Mary lou said she sees a border poll in 5-8 years by which time they will also be the biggest party in the Republic too,according to all polls | |||
"Has anyone on here read up and have any feedback on how our armed forces would be weakened? Genuine question " It was discussed in the first referendum so you may have to look up the records on that. I do vaguely recall an interview with an SNP person who said that Scotland would be entitled to a share of the assets like ships and aircraft ect. The interviewer said the quantities sound about correct and went on to ask the SNP person if he knew how much money they cost to maintain each year. Turned out he did not consider that and ended up saying well England will have to pay the maintenance. | |||
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"NS is too obsessed with Indy ref 2. She really doesn’t give a toss about wellbeing of the Scottish people. The SNP has let scotland get worse during their tenure. What is mildly interesting is that whenever she is questioned on her poor performance regarding public services and the issues surrounding state education, she then rattles the Indy ref sabre, and see the brainwashed masses rush to vote for the SNP. Look Scotland, wake up, she is more interested in power now, and the trappings of her office now to ever give scotland an independent voice. If you want a devo max government fine, nation of equals, fine, just stop being seduced by the SNP’s unrealistic expectations, they are the same as Brexit. You’ve got the equivalent of UKIP in charge, but more fluffy around the edges. The prospect of rejoining the EU is the big draw for scottish independence since the last referendum. If I was Scottish, I would be seriously thinking about it. To join the EU they need financial stability, and to meet various other criteria, one of which is none of the 27 states vetos them. The Basque region of Spain wants autonomy from Spain so Scotland will be used as an example by Spain to disuade the Basques from seeking independence. If Scotland remains a £ sterling area independence will mean nothing except they have less money to throw around. If they set up their own currency then it will take years to show stability; if it ever does. If the try and link to the Euro it will be even worse. I would like to hear what is proposed rather than the SNP "Westminister hates the Scots" rhetoric of this time. Yeah if they could propose how to tackle some of those issues, amongst the many others. That would help. And for sure, joining the EU is no picnic. There's a whole load of countries trying to join that haven't met the grade. But it could be better for Scotland to try, than being tied to the sinking ship. Sinking ship . You see that’s funny - it’s actually Scotland under the SNP Government that is the sinking ship - that is of course if they had managed to build any ships to sink !
If scotland under the snp is a sinking ship as you say can you explain why they keep winning every election ? Maybe you should stick to english politics as you dont seem to know much about scotland or its politics
Where are the ferries?
More importantly, why has the paperwork disappeared/been destroyed?
I suspect this is another “I don’t recall” moment from wee nippie .
Scotland deserves better
So you cant answer then, and just go on bashing the snp and resort to childish name calling,and maybe you can tell us when crossrail,hs2 will be finished and how many billions over buget they are ?
Only 1 in 7 voted for the SNP on Thursday - the curtain is being pulled back and the glaring truths are being revealed .
It’s clearly becoming harder to ignore, even within the ranks of the indoctrinated Nats - the Scottish Nationalist Party are failing in all parts of Scotland.
So, ignore the ferries and the wasted 220 million and the dodgy contract that has been destroyed/lost - how about the half billion covid cash unaccounted for … as highlighted by the national audit office … money that should have been distributed to the people of Scotland … it’s going to be another opportunity to hear “I have no recollection” isn’t it!
It’s only a matter of time before the house of cards collapses.
There is hope though, good to see the LibDems in Edinburgh city council have ruled out working with the SNP - “ People across Edinburgh turned to us because they wanted a new and different approach. We heard time and time again on the doorsteps how voters were fed up with the SNP’s arrogance, its centralised approach, and its inability to get basic council services right. The election offered the chance for real change.
“During our discussions over the weekend, it became clear that SNP councillors have learned nothing from the difficulties of the last Council term and plan to simply continue with their previous approach. Liberal Democrats believe the people of Edinburgh deserve better than this. It is why our group has agreed we will not enter into any agreement with the SNP on Edinburgh Council. ”
Let’s hope this is replicated across all regions of Scotland
Two quotes come to mind. "Politicians and diapers must be changed often, and for the same reason" (erroneously attributed to Mark Twain.)
"Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely."
Political parties and politicians that stay in power too long become corrupt and stale; more interested in defending their failures than fixing them.
After 15 years it is time the SNP propaganda was seen for what it is. The failing education system, massive debt and substandard NHS Scotland are entirely down to the SNP.
But as they wave the Saltire yet again the faithful will salute it. "Im pretty sure that nhs scotland is the best run in uk maybe you can prove me wrong,and what massive debt has scotland got? | |||
"NS is too obsessed with Indy ref 2. She really doesn’t give a toss about wellbeing of the Scottish people. The SNP has let scotland get worse during their tenure. What is mildly interesting is that whenever she is questioned on her poor performance regarding public services and the issues surrounding state education, she then rattles the Indy ref sabre, and see the brainwashed masses rush to vote for the SNP. Look Scotland, wake up, she is more interested in power now, and the trappings of her office now to ever give scotland an independent voice. If you want a devo max government fine, nation of equals, fine, just stop being seduced by the SNP’s unrealistic expectations, they are the same as Brexit. You’ve got the equivalent of UKIP in charge, but more fluffy around the edges. The prospect of rejoining the EU is the big draw for scottish independence since the last referendum. If I was Scottish, I would be seriously thinking about it. To join the EU they need financial stability, and to meet various other criteria, one of which is none of the 27 states vetos them. The Basque region of Spain wants autonomy from Spain so Scotland will be used as an example by Spain to disuade the Basques from seeking independence. If Scotland remains a £ sterling area independence will mean nothing except they have less money to throw around. If they set up their own currency then it will take years to show stability; if it ever does. If the try and link to the Euro it will be even worse. I would like to hear what is proposed rather than the SNP "Westminister hates the Scots" rhetoric of this time. Yeah if they could propose how to tackle some of those issues, amongst the many others. That would help. And for sure, joining the EU is no picnic. There's a whole load of countries trying to join that haven't met the grade. But it could be better for Scotland to try, than being tied to the sinking ship. Sinking ship . You see that’s funny - it’s actually Scotland under the SNP Government that is the sinking ship - that is of course if they had managed to build any ships to sink !
If scotland under the snp is a sinking ship as you say can you explain why they keep winning every election ? Maybe you should stick to english politics as you dont seem to know much about scotland or its politics
Where are the ferries?
More importantly, why has the paperwork disappeared/been destroyed?
I suspect this is another “I don’t recall” moment from wee nippie .
Scotland deserves better
So you cant answer then, and just go on bashing the snp and resort to childish name calling,and maybe you can tell us when crossrail,hs2 will be finished and how many billions over buget they are ?
Only 1 in 7 voted for the SNP on Thursday - the curtain is being pulled back and the glaring truths are being revealed .
It’s clearly becoming harder to ignore, even within the ranks of the indoctrinated Nats - the Scottish Nationalist Party are failing in all parts of Scotland.
So, ignore the ferries and the wasted 220 million and the dodgy contract that has been destroyed/lost - how about the half billion covid cash unaccounted for … as highlighted by the national audit office … money that should have been distributed to the people of Scotland … it’s going to be another opportunity to hear “I have no recollection” isn’t it!
It’s only a matter of time before the house of cards collapses.
There is hope though, good to see the LibDems in Edinburgh city council have ruled out working with the SNP - “ People across Edinburgh turned to us because they wanted a new and different approach. We heard time and time again on the doorsteps how voters were fed up with the SNP’s arrogance, its centralised approach, and its inability to get basic council services right. The election offered the chance for real change.
“During our discussions over the weekend, it became clear that SNP councillors have learned nothing from the difficulties of the last Council term and plan to simply continue with their previous approach. Liberal Democrats believe the people of Edinburgh deserve better than this. It is why our group has agreed we will not enter into any agreement with the SNP on Edinburgh Council. ”
Let’s hope this is replicated across all regions of Scotland
your deluded mate stop reading the daily mail and telegraph lol,as an english person maybe start looking at the wasted billions on crossrail hs2,track and trace and many more ,the snp are the strongest party in scotland and will get us independence in 2023 the guy is Scottish. "And proud of it | |||
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" I'm pretty sure that nhs scotland is the best run in uk maybe you can prove me wrong,and what massive debt has scotland got?" You're right, NHS Scotland is a country mile ahead of England's disintegrating health service and in NI it seems to be even worse - certainly, on every occasion I have had cause to use different parts of NHSS, I have been both impressed and grateful. The propaganda of the pro-union foreign-owned press and politicians from Scotland's English political parties is a constant attack on that reality, but what can you expect? It's in the nature of the beast. Two questions the empire-wallahs can never answer 1. Name one country which has achieved independence which has had buyer's regret. 2. Why is resources-rich Scotland uniquely incapable, among similar small nations, of being a prosperous independent country? (supplementary, aside: 2a. How will debt-ridden England afford to pay restitution for the stolen oil wealth?) Since 1066, the other three nations of these islands have faced hostility (in many forms), domination, arrogance and cruelty from the Anglo-Norman establishment. With all unionist parties showing that they are democracy-deniers and -abusers, if Johnson does not relent on Indyref 2, he will force the SNP to use their mandate to hold the referendum regardless. No treaty can bind both parties irrevocably and in perpetuity. | |||
" I'm pretty sure that nhs scotland is the best run in uk maybe you can prove me wrong,and what massive debt has scotland got? You're right, NHS Scotland is a country mile ahead of England's disintegrating health service and in NI it seems to be even worse - certainly, on every occasion I have had cause to use different parts of NHSS, I have been both impressed and grateful. The propaganda of the pro-union foreign-owned press and politicians from Scotland's English political parties is a constant attack on that reality, but what can you expect? It's in the nature of the beast. Two questions the empire-wallahs can never answer 1. Name one country which has achieved independence which has had buyer's regret. 2. Why is resources-rich Scotland uniquely incapable, among similar small nations, of being a prosperous independent country? (supplementary, aside: 2a. How will debt-ridden England afford to pay restitution for the stolen oil wealth?) Since 1066, the other three nations of these islands have faced hostility (in many forms), domination, arrogance and cruelty from the Anglo-Norman establishment. With all unionist parties showing that they are democracy-deniers and -abusers, if Johnson does not relent on Indyref 2, he will force the SNP to use their mandate to hold the referendum regardless. No treaty can bind both parties irrevocably and in perpetuity. " Well said sir | |||
" I'm pretty sure that nhs scotland is the best run in uk maybe you can prove me wrong,and what massive debt has scotland got? You're right, NHS Scotland is a country mile ahead of England's disintegrating health service and in NI it seems to be even worse - certainly, on every occasion I have had cause to use different parts of NHSS, I have been both impressed and grateful. The propaganda of the pro-union foreign-owned press and politicians from Scotland's English political parties is a constant attack on that reality, but what can you expect? It's in the nature of the beast. Two questions the empire-wallahs can never answer 1. Name one country which has achieved independence which has had buyer's regret. 2. Why is resources-rich Scotland uniquely incapable, among similar small nations, of being a prosperous independent country? (supplementary, aside: 2a. How will debt-ridden England afford to pay restitution for the stolen oil wealth?) Since 1066, the other three nations of these islands have faced hostility (in many forms), domination, arrogance and cruelty from the Anglo-Norman establishment. With all unionist parties showing that they are democracy-deniers and -abusers, if Johnson does not relent on Indyref 2, he will force the SNP to use their mandate to hold the referendum regardless. No treaty can bind both parties irrevocably and in perpetuity. " | |||
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"“(supplementary, aside: 2a. How will debt-ridden England afford to pay restitution for the stolen oil wealth?)” Not sure on this but I reckon the fab experts can correct me. Aren’t the oil/gas fields in the North Sea part of the Crown Estate rather than Scottish Territorial waters?" Ahhh Well get rid of the crown as well and... And.. Let them eat cake. | |||
"seems that liz truss is poised to set the precedent of ripping up treaties betwixt nations. this will give the constitutional green light for scotland to call a referendum regardless of westminsters whinging about the legality of the subject. "Wonder how this will work out for them? | |||
"Scotland cnertainly seems to be on a slippery slope towards independence. The SNP are riding high and will not let the chance slip. It does not seem to matter how poorly they run Education and NHS Scotland or how much debt they run up bribing the voters with free prescriptions etc. the SNP continue to grow their support as if only traitors do not vote SNP. On the other hand they continue to hammer away at Westminister saying they are ignoring Scotland and treating the Scots badly. The Independence sound bites will be "Take back control", "Scotland for the Scottish" and "Stop the drain of resources and money from Scotland to England". Nothing will be said about defence, foreign policy, rejoining the EU, how they will deal with their huge national debt or what currency they will use after independence. So the masses will vote to break up the UK and Queen Nichola the 1st will be enthroned, as she always planned, on the Stone of Destiny. " Very well put, the real subjects that matter are avoided by the snp, or you get the tired old answers of we will rejoin the EU ect, the EU doesn't want or need Scotland. And the child like mind set of the snp over still using the pound sterling and the won't need a defence force, no defence force good luck with learning to speak Chinese or Russian | |||
"Scotland cnertainly seems to be on a slippery slope towards independence. The SNP are riding high and will not let the chance slip. It does not seem to matter how poorly they run Education and NHS Scotland or how much debt they run up bribing the voters with free prescriptions etc. the SNP continue to grow their support as if only traitors do not vote SNP. On the other hand they continue to hammer away at Westminister saying they are ignoring Scotland and treating the Scots badly. The Independence sound bites will be "Take back control", "Scotland for the Scottish" and "Stop the drain of resources and money from Scotland to England". Nothing will be said about defence, foreign policy, rejoining the EU, how they will deal with their huge national debt or what currency they will use after independence. So the masses will vote to break up the UK and Queen Nichola the 1st will be enthroned, as she always planned, on the Stone of Destiny. Very well put, the real subjects that matter are avoided by the snp, or you get the tired old answers of we will rejoin the EU ect, the EU doesn't want or need Scotland. And the child like mind set of the snp over still using the pound sterling and the won't need a defence force, no defence force good luck with learning to speak Chinese or Russian " " the EU doesn't want or need Scotland."... If they ever stop suckling off the teat of Russian fossil fuels they might be interested in the north sea.... | |||
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"Truly amazing the amount of posters who were against brexit because of the damage it would do to the country who are now delightful at the possibility of the UK breaking up, can you not see that the economic damage to all of the UK nations will be horrendous? Absolutely crazy although perfectly normal for fab i guess." i won't ask you to name names, and I lose track of who says what on what subject, but my sense is the remainers are also calling out that Sexit would have the same issues. Be it fiscally or borders. Are leavers consistent in their views ? (Also, EU and UK, and Scotland and ruK, are different beasts. So one can switch views imo. Eg we share a currency. That has implications) | |||
"Truly amazing the amount of posters who were against brexit because of the damage it would do to the country who are now delightful at the possibility of the UK breaking up, can you not see that the economic damage to all of the UK nations will be horrendous? Absolutely crazy although perfectly normal for fab i guess." Are you saying that Brexit has caused damage to the country? | |||
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"On reflection I don't think either remain or leave really bothered to make a proper case for deciding in their favour. The remain argument seemed to boil down to.. Remain and things won't change. And the leave argument seemed to boil down to, leave.. Because it won't be remaining. So long as lessons are learned and more robust thinking goes into presenting each case. My concern is people side for the outcome being "Not" something. We've seen how that works. Finally any significant change requires strong and clear leadership to get through it... And we've lived with the quality of our politicians fot the last years... And there doesn't seem to be anything or anyone coming that is going to appreciably improve that quality. " Leave made ridiculous promises with no information or evidence to back it up. People weren't paying proper attention, believed it, and voted leave. | |||
"Truly amazing the amount of posters who were against brexit because of the damage it would do to the country who are now delightful at the possibility of the UK breaking up, can you not see that the economic damage to all of the UK nations will be horrendous? Absolutely crazy although perfectly normal for fab i guess." Are you suggesting that everyone who understands brexit wants the UK to break up? | |||
"Truly amazing the amount of posters who were against brexit because of the damage it would do to the country who are now delightful at the possibility of the UK breaking up, can you not see that the economic damage to all of the UK nations will be horrendous? Absolutely crazy although perfectly normal for fab i guess. Are you suggesting that everyone who understands brexit wants the UK to break up? " Two different things, probably for different reasons.. But the decision is being put into our hands in a similar way. Some of the things mentioned above and many more need to be better understood and explained before an informed decision can be made....at least in the la la land I inhabit. | |||
"what's important is how people vote on the day and unionism has been stronlgy rejected in all nations. luckily Sinn Fein have now become the biggest party in the north of ireland. "Sinn Fein are now the biggest party in all of Ireland. We are getting there slowly. | |||
"NS is too obsessed with Indy ref 2. She really doesn’t give a toss about wellbeing of the Scottish people. The SNP has let scotland get worse during their tenure. What is mildly interesting is that whenever she is questioned on her poor performance regarding public services and the issues surrounding state education, she then rattles the Indy ref sabre, and see the brainwashed masses rush to vote for the SNP. Look Scotland, wake up, she is more interested in power now, and the trappings of her office now to ever give scotland an independent voice. If you want a devo max government fine, nation of equals, fine, just stop being seduced by the SNP’s unrealistic expectations, they are the same as Brexit. You’ve got the equivalent of UKIP in charge, but more fluffy around the edges. The prospect of rejoining the EU is the big draw for scottish independence since the last referendum. If I was Scottish, I would be seriously thinking about it. To join the EU they need financial stability, and to meet various other criteria, one of which is none of the 27 states vetos them. The Basque region of Spain wants autonomy from Spain so Scotland will be used as an example by Spain to disuade the Basques from seeking independence. If Scotland remains a £ sterling area independence will mean nothing except they have less money to throw around. If they set up their own currency then it will take years to show stability; if it ever does. If the try and link to the Euro it will be even worse. I would like to hear what is proposed rather than the SNP "Westminister hates the Scots" rhetoric of this time. Yeah if they could propose how to tackle some of those issues, amongst the many others. That would help. And for sure, joining the EU is no picnic. There's a whole load of countries trying to join that haven't met the grade. But it could be better for Scotland to try, than being tied to the sinking ship. Sinking ship . You see that’s funny - it’s actually Scotland under the SNP Government that is the sinking ship - that is of course if they had managed to build any ships to sink !
If scotland under the snp is a sinking ship as you say can you explain why they keep winning every election ? Maybe you should stick to english politics as you dont seem to know much about scotland or its politics
Better still explain why the do as it bafals us English ?
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*Because a significant number of Scots want independence and see support for the SNP as being their only way of demonstrating their will.
The SNP are only the independence vehicle, once that destination is secure and in line with almost any other country, support for the SNP will start to split as other political parties come up with national policies to map the way forwards post-independence.
The attitude that you display is exactly why we no longer have an empire and why their is increasing Nationalist sentiment in N Ireland, Scotland and increasingly in Wales.
Far too many English people (including generations of politicians) have regarded non-English people as unequals who should feel grateful to the English for accommodating them.
A little humility and an effort to understand other people and other cultures would have resulted in an entirely different post-Empire United Kingdom.
Instead, we English have become consumed by our own Exceptionalism and lost our best friends, closest trading partners and nearest neighbours in the process.
It is my opinion that in my lifetime, England will be a country sharing an island with two other independent country’s and will be snarling and agitated looking North, West and South because our neighbours refuse to accept just how spiffingly wonderful we English are.
Ungrateful bastards lol
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Very well said sir, that is the reality..... you have summed it up precisely....
IMHO
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" | |||
" I'm pretty sure that nhs scotland is the best run in uk maybe you can prove me wrong,and what massive debt has scotland got? You're right, NHS Scotland is a country mile ahead of England's disintegrating health service and in NI it seems to be even worse - certainly, on every occasion I have had cause to use different parts of NHSS, I have been both impressed and grateful. The propaganda of the pro-union foreign-owned press and politicians from Scotland's English political parties is a constant attack on that reality, but what can you expect? It's in the nature of the beast. Two questions the empire-wallahs can never answer 1. Name one country which has achieved independence which has had buyer's regret. 2. Why is resources-rich Scotland uniquely incapable, among similar small nations, of being a prosperous independent country? (supplementary, aside: 2a. How will debt-ridden England afford to pay restitution for the stolen oil wealth?) Since 1066, the other three nations of these islands have faced hostility (in many forms), domination, arrogance and cruelty from the Anglo-Norman establishment. With all unionist parties showing that they are democracy-deniers and -abusers, if Johnson does not relent on Indyref 2, he will force the SNP to use their mandate to hold the referendum regardless. No treaty can bind both parties irrevocably and in perpetuity. " 1. The UK when it left the EU 2.Easy because the last time you were, we had to settle your disputes on your succession to the Scottish throne, and it became apparent is that Scotland could not govern its self, due to the rampant regicide | |||
"Northern Ireland and Scotland are a financial drain on england so good bye, farewell, no tears here" _______ So... IF scotland is such a 'financial drain' on England... why are successive Westminster governments so against the idea of independence? Why did David Cameron PLEAD with Scots to vote NO before the referendum? Why did hordes of Westminster politicians appear on our tv screens desperately trying to persuade Scots to vote NO? Could it be that the uk NEEDS Scotlands resources? and would be f*cked without them? If Scotland is such a 'drain' on England just let us go.... ffs ___________ | |||
"Northern Ireland and Scotland are a financial drain on england so good bye, farewell, no tears here _______ So... IF scotland is such a 'financial drain' on England... why are successive Westminster governments so against the idea of independence? Why did David Cameron PLEAD with Scots to vote NO before the referendum? Why did hordes of Westminster politicians appear on our tv screens desperately trying to persuade Scots to vote NO? Could it be that the uk NEEDS Scotlands resources? and would be f*cked without them? If Scotland is such a 'drain' on England just let us go.... ffs ___________" just have another vote then and go | |||
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"It's down to the people of Scotland and ni. When the majority want,it will happen. Not until then. " exactly it’s only right | |||
"It's down to the people of Scotland and ni. When the majority want,it will happen. Not until then. exactly it’s only right " ________ Exactly, its only right... that is my point. So, if it's only right, and, as stated above.. Scotland is a 'financial drain' on the uk... why do Westminster politicians continually try to persuade Scots not to vote for independence? ____________ | |||
"Weakened irrecoverably thats why there won’t be a unification referendum.Theres definitely been backroom talks. Expect the official Uk armed forces to crumble to nearly half strength and for ships to be taken out of action.The UK’s mobility will also be threatened as we have obligations to maintain 10,000 men around the world regardless of situation. Bonus "Why? | |||
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"Can Cornwall and Yorkshire go too . Assuming as everyone says it’s up to them. " well if it’s not upto the people who the fuck is it upto | |||
"It's down to the people of Scotland and ni. When the majority want,it will happen. Not until then. exactly it’s only right ________ Exactly, its only right... that is my point. So, if it's only right, and, as stated above.. Scotland is a 'financial drain' on the uk... why do Westminster politicians continually try to persuade Scots not to vote for independence? ____________ " Because the break up of a 400 year old alliance on their watch would be considered to be a bad thing by the majority of the UK. It's not a practical thing, it's an emotional thing, a bit like the desire for independence. The Scots population is just 10% of the English population. The population of London is 1.5 times the entire population of Scotland.  | |||
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"It's down to the people of Scotland and ni. When the majority want,it will happen. Not until then. exactly it’s only right ________ Exactly, its only right... that is my point. So, if it's only right, and, as stated above.. Scotland is a 'financial drain' on the uk... why do Westminster politicians continually try to persuade Scots not to vote for independence? ____________ Because the break up of a 400 year old alliance on their watch would be considered to be a bad thing by the majority of the UK. It's not a practical thing, it's an emotional thing, a bit like the desire for independence. The Scots population is just 10% of the English population. The population of London is 1.5 times the entire population of Scotland. "______ It isn't up to the majority of the uk. And the fact that it's 400 years old is irrelevant. Who says it isn't 'practical'? Is that just your opinion? What has population got to do with it? Norway has a population similar to Scotland. Denmark has a population similar to Scotland. They seem to manage fine... don't they? ___________ | |||
"Can Cornwall and Yorkshire go too . Assuming as everyone says it’s up to them. well if it’s not upto the people who the fuck is it upto " People unfortunately all to often don’t understand the reality of their passion. Brexit is a prime example . The break up of the U.K. is only negative in reality. Emotion is overruling common sense. | |||
"Can Cornwall and Yorkshire go too . Assuming as everyone says it’s up to them. well if it’s not upto the people who the fuck is it upto People unfortunately all to often don’t understand the reality of their passion. Brexit is a prime example . The break up of the U.K. is only negative in reality. Emotion is overruling common sense. " Sorry, no idea what you mean, can you please clarify. | |||
"It's down to the people of Scotland and ni. When the majority want,it will happen. Not until then. exactly it’s only right ________ Exactly, its only right... that is my point. So, if it's only right, and, as stated above.. Scotland is a 'financial drain' on the uk... why do Westminster politicians continually try to persuade Scots not to vote for independence? ____________ Because the break up of a 400 year old alliance on their watch would be considered to be a bad thing by the majority of the UK. It's not a practical thing, it's an emotional thing, a bit like the desire for independence. The Scots population is just 10% of the English population. The population of London is 1.5 times the entire population of Scotland.
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It isn't up to the majority of the uk.
And the fact that it's 400 years old is irrelevant.
Who says it isn't 'practical'? Is that just your opinion?
What has population got to do with it?
Norway has a population similar to Scotland.
Denmark has a population similar to Scotland.
They seem to manage fine... don't they?
___________"Don't they.... | |||
"It's down to the people of Scotland and ni. When the majority want,it will happen. Not until then. exactly it’s only right ________ Exactly, its only right... that is my point. So, if it's only right, and, as stated above.. Scotland is a 'financial drain' on the uk... why do Westminster politicians continually try to persuade Scots not to vote for independence? ____________ Because the break up of a 400 year old alliance on their watch would be considered to be a bad thing by the majority of the UK. It's not a practical thing, it's an emotional thing, a bit like the desire for independence. The Scots population is just 10% of the English population. The population of London is 1.5 times the entire population of Scotland.
______
It isn't up to the majority of the uk.
And the fact that it's 400 years old is irrelevant.
Who says it isn't 'practical'? Is that just your opinion?
What has population got to do with it?
Norway has a population similar to Scotland.
Denmark has a population similar to Scotland.
They seem to manage fine... don't they?
___________
Don't they...."For a Legally binding independence referendum to be held it must be approved by the UK Parliament in Westminister. So it IS up to the majority of the UK. In the light of this perhaps Indy Ref 2 should include votes from England, Wales and N.Ireland as well? Emotionally 400 years counts so it is not irrelevant. However with the only areas of power left to be transfered to the Scottish parliament being Defence and Foreign policy, and some residual taxes, as a resident of Scotland, I would like to hear from the SNP precisely how they intend to defend the people of Scotland after independence and what new taxes they intend to implement? A practical or pragmatic driver for independance would be based on tangible benefits to the Scots. Virtually all the studies so far have shown the economy of Scotland would shrink, taxes would rise, Scottish national debt would increase again, unemployment would rise, what currency they use would be an issue and so would their re-entry into the EU. On the plus side "Take back control!" "Scotland for the Scots!", "Westminister hates us", are powerful arguments, as similar ones were for Brexit. Population is important as it is a resource needed to create wealth. Denmark and Norway have been independant for hundreds of years. Their GDP is about $350 to $380 billion each. Scotland's GDP is $205 billion and a lot of that is from oil which now has a limited value over time. So yes, Denmark and Norway seem just fine but Slovakia, Congo, Liberia and Costa Rica are not doing so well. All I want to see is a well thought out proposal for independence, not the emotional claptrap wrapped in the saltire and based on a hatred of Westminister that we see at this time. When I see that then I will be able to vote with a balanced point of view. | |||
"Can Cornwall and Yorkshire go too . Assuming as everyone says it’s up to them. well if it’s not upto the people who the fuck is it upto People unfortunately all to often don’t understand the reality of their passion. Brexit is a prime example . The break up of the U.K. is only negative in reality. Emotion is overruling common sense. Sorry, no idea what you mean, can you please clarify." Similar to not being part of the EU makes the U.K. weaker the same can be said for Scotland , England and Wales going it alone. Economically is negative. infrastructure spending is watered down, defence is weakened. Half of my family is Scottish so I do experience the passion on a regular basis but they also point out the abject failure of the SNP to address issues other than just independence. Education is failing in Scotland. The drug abuse situation is one of the worst in Europe. Claims of oil revenue being the supporter of the economy is fine until the price drops as it did after the last referendum. Then you hear the claim of back payments for oil. It will never happen. The initial investments came from London without which there wouldn’t be an oil industry in Scotland. Also the sottish have received more per head from the state than other areas of the U.K. so can they pay that back too? I’m being argumentative as I know there are some positives too but not enough to swing the argument in my view. I’m love Scotland and from an emotional point of view I want to retain the U.K. I admit. My best friend is Welsh and I don’t want to lose the unity we all have as people. Not the same view at all as negative politicians. The reality is we need to keep the union. England definitely needs to for selfish reasons, to stop the Tory’s making it a one party state. If that happens I’ll be picking up my Scottish passport sharpish. | |||
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"to be fair that's just nationalist unionist sentimentality with no basis fact." Actually there is a measured fall in educational standards in Scotland. The drugs problem is one of the worst in Europe. Oils revenues do fall and it was financiers backing oil companies to develop the oil fields . In addition Scotland does receive more state funding per head. Our armed forces working independently will be weaker due to increased costs. So not all emotional at all thank you. Having stated that I can confirm indeed I am emotional about it too I freely and happily admit. | |||
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"England has more in common with the wider world than the remoter parts of these islands." Are you think of places like Sunnyvale, Nova Scotia? | |||
"The populations of the devolved nations should decide. They should have that choice and the arguments made within that territory without external influence. Once the decision js made then we can move forward with to co-operate on the common ground and diverge where each nation fails to agree on policy or desired outcomes. Expect each former union member to act in their own best interest. That’s natural and the way of the world. There may never be a good time. Something will always pop up, a war, the end of gas and oil. Kilts may go out if fashion. Who can tell. So might as well stop making excuses. Let the votes take place. And move on. Nothing lasts forever and the union may come and go over the 100s of yours to follow. As we may also rejoin the EU. Or not as the case may be. All we can do as the current generations is respect the process and allow it to take place without violence - that in and of itself is a huge step forward compared to how the union was formed and how Ireland was partitioned in the first place! But don’t forget Wales in all this. Fair is fair. " I agree pretty much with all of this, only I think while there is never a good time to do it, there are better times. And the respect of the process cannot be ensured. We're going to have 2 indy referendums, we could've had 2 brexit referendums. I think they all are/could have been justified. In addition to that, we have seen in the US a complete rejection of the democratic process by sections of a mainstream party. We are not immune to it. I genuinely fear what could lie ahead. While many will point towards successful, small EU countries, the relationship Scotland has with the UK would be unlike anything an EU member state has had. Our relationship with the EU could, and probably will, change again. But even taking the 'Norway' option would put a border between Scotland and England, if they joined the EU as an independent state. The only way to stop a border is a united position on the EU. And it'll be the introduction of border checks that will be most likely to bring violence. How I wish I could turn back the clock to early 2016. That way, I could fight brexit harder. Only then could I claim to have a clear conscience. | |||
