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Illiteracy in the Workplace.
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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Went out for a meal this evening. 2nd time in as many weeks that the young 20 something waiter/waitress (British) was quite strained to calculate their 10% tip.
Ok a sample of two is not exactly conclusive evidence we’re all doomed. But this is primary school maths. Anyone else notice a decline in cognitive. Is it over reliance on apps and too much time fucking about on social media? |
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"Went out for a meal this evening. 2nd time in as many weeks that the young 20 something waiter/waitress (British) was quite strained to calculate their 10% tip.
Ok a sample of two is not exactly conclusive evidence we’re all doomed. But this is primary school maths. Anyone else notice a decline in cognitive. Is it over reliance on apps and too much time fucking about on social media? "
yes judge the young by your one meal well done you some people are just born old lol |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Went out for a meal this evening. 2nd time in as many weeks that the young 20 something waiter/waitress (British) was quite strained to calculate their 10% tip.
Ok a sample of two is not exactly conclusive evidence we’re all doomed. But this is primary school maths. Anyone else notice a decline in cognitive. Is it over reliance on apps and too much time fucking about on social media? yes judge the young by your one meal well done you some people are just born old lol"
A few pointers.
Firstly, It was two meals. And only raised the point as it was 2nd time in a row it had happened. I know this complex maths so please shout if you need help. It was actually my teenage daughter who made the comment to me after the meal.
Secondly it was a series of questions. Not a judgement. The OP even acknowledged it was no basis for a statistically meaningful conclusion. Again if that was challenging for you then remember to put your hand up at the back.
“Lol”  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Went out for a meal this evening. 2nd time in as many weeks that the young 20 something waiter/waitress (British) was quite strained to calculate their 10% tip.
Ok a sample of two is not exactly conclusive evidence we’re all doomed. But this is primary school maths. Anyone else notice a decline in cognitive. Is it over reliance on apps and too much time fucking about on social media? "
Easy peazy! The waiter lets you off 9 times then on your tenth visit, charges you the same as the tab! Phhheeew that had me thinking.
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"And before anyone pipes up… well aware that the title should probably read ‘numeracy’. General term for “thick” escaped me ironically.
A weakness in maths or being illiterate doesn't make you 'thick'. Using direct speech marks instead of quotation marks doesn't do much for your credibility
"
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"And before anyone pipes up… well aware that the title should probably read ‘numeracy’. General term for “thick” escaped me ironically.
A weakness in maths or being illiterate doesn't make you 'thick'. Using direct speech marks instead of quotation marks doesn't do much for your credibility
"
Are you quoting yourself? |
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Lots of people struggle with mathematics. Judging from the abstract nonsense my kids had to study I'm not surprised when I encounter someone who struggles with the basics.
If I tip I calculate it myself and add a little extra to account for an employer that doesn't value their staff enough to pay a living wage. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Lots of people struggle with mathematics. Judging from the abstract nonsense my kids had to study I'm not surprised when I encounter someone who struggles with the basics.
If I tip I calculate it myself and add a little extra to account for an employer that doesn't value their staff enough to pay a living wage. "
Indeed. Maybe by someone else calculating the tips and adding it to their wage is how the Govt expect the UK to covert to a high skill high wage economy. I’m sure they probably know hiw to use quotation marks however. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Why would the waiter/waitress calculate the tip? Surely that is something _you_ decide to give them?"
A bit besides the point. I’d already decided to give a tip. Hence suggesting 10%. I had no idea at the time how much the bill was to decide on an amount.
I just asked her to calculate it. Since she had the bill, the payment terminal and was the one receiving it. I did not have my glasses with me so could not read the bill myself.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"And before anyone pipes up… well aware that the title should probably read ‘numeracy’. General term for “thick” escaped me ironically.
"
I think you'll find it should be "innumeracy" *sniff*
More seriously, dunno. I haven't had to ask or see anybody calculate anything for me recently. But I can imagine they use phones for everything now, with no real need for thinking involved.
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"And before anyone pipes up… well aware that the title should probably read ‘numeracy’. General term for “thick” escaped me ironically.
I think you'll find it should be "innumeracy" *sniff*
More seriously, dunno. I haven't had to ask or see anybody calculate anything for me recently. But I can imagine they use phones for everything now, with no real need for thinking involved.
"
You’re quite right, but either would have worked as a title/headline.
Quite possibly. Maybe the over reliance on technology is what causes these types of issues.
Also makes you wonder how levelling up is actually going to work.
I think it was around the start of the pandemic that the Govt ran adverts suggesting people retrain if they lost their jobs. Ballet dancers becoming cyber security specialist or some such drivel. Fat chance of that if someone can’t even divide a simple number by 10.
But I suppose in this victimless namby pamby woke culture we have now that we should not blame anyone for lacking basic life skills and that everyone else is to blame.
When inflation hits 10% how will they know if an extra 25p on the minimum wage will cover their extra cost of living?
Riddle me that one wordsmiths and quotation marl experts. 25p bigger than 10% innit. So what’s the issue with your gas bill? But if course the apologists will expect a windfall tax to subsidise them I suppose. Just tell them that 10% of 4.8bn is £4.80?
#fuckwits |
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"Went out for a meal this evening. 2nd time in as many weeks that the young 20 something waiter/waitress (British) was quite strained to calculate their 10% tip.
Ok a sample of two is not exactly conclusive evidence we’re all doomed. But this is primary school maths. Anyone else notice a decline in cognitive. Is it over reliance on apps and too much time fucking about on social media? "
Even when I went to school, children were encouraged to rely on calculators rather than actually working out sums in their head! Sadly, we have become too reliant on technology  |
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You might be seeing a bias in that if the person was properly educated they wouldn’t be a waitress
Also the old saying “you won’t be carrying a calculator everywhere you go” isn’t so true anymore so it doesn’t matter as much to know that stuff |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"And before anyone pipes up… well aware that the title should probably read ‘numeracy’. General term for “thick” escaped me ironically.
"
While this thread is about innumeracy, based on the evidence in the fab forums, illiteracy is also rife! Typos aside, the number of people who don’t know the difference between there, their, they’re or wear, where, or to, too, two or when to use which or that, is astounding! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Went out for a meal this evening. 2nd time in as many weeks that the young 20 something waiter/waitress (British) was quite strained to calculate their 10% tip.
Ok a sample of two is not exactly conclusive evidence we’re all doomed. But this is primary school maths. Anyone else notice a decline in cognitive. Is it over reliance on apps and too much time fucking about on social media? "
The second time you say... I would suggest you stop being a total cunt stop trying to make a young person look stupid, you asshole. |
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"And before anyone pipes up… well aware that the title should probably read ‘numeracy’. General term for “thick” escaped me ironically.
While this thread is about innumeracy, based on the evidence in the fab forums, illiteracy is also rife! Typos aside, the number of people who don’t know the difference between there, their, they’re or wear, where, or to, too, two or when to use which or that, is astounding!"
That is sadly so true and then they blame dyslexia which is a bollocks excuse. |
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"And before anyone pipes up… well aware that the title should probably read ‘numeracy’. General term for “thick” escaped me ironically.
While this thread is about innumeracy, based on the evidence in the fab forums, illiteracy is also rife! Typos aside, the number of people who don’t know the difference between there, their, they’re or wear, where, or to, too, two or when to use which or that, is astounding!"
Here, hear 
Joking aside, I'm in complete agreement. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Went out for a meal this evening. 2nd time in as many weeks that the young 20 something waiter/waitress (British) was quite strained to calculate their 10% tip.
Ok a sample of two is not exactly conclusive evidence we’re all doomed. But this is primary school maths. Anyone else notice a decline in cognitive. Is it over reliance on apps and too much time fucking about on social media?
The second time you say... I would suggest you stop being a total cunt stop trying to make a young person look stupid, you asshole. "
Sorry to spoil your rant but these were completely separate events. Different towns, restaurants and staff. On neither occasion was there any attempt to make the young person feel stupid. You might be projecting how you would act in such a situation. There's big difference between the interaction in the real situation and discussing it anonymously in a forum as a ‘topic’. But I suspect that difference might be above your comprehension somehow. Have a nice day  |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"And before anyone pipes up… well aware that the title should probably read ‘numeracy’. General term for “thick” escaped me ironically.
While this thread is about innumeracy, based on the evidence in the fab forums, illiteracy is also rife! Typos aside, the number of people who don’t know the difference between there, their, they’re or wear, where, or to, too, two or when to use which or that, is astounding!
Here, hear
Joking aside, I'm in complete agreement."
I hear you with your “hear hear” |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Went out for a meal this evening. 2nd time in as many weeks that the young 20 something waiter/waitress (British) was quite strained to calculate their 10% tip.
Ok a sample of two is not exactly conclusive evidence we’re all doomed. But this is primary school maths. Anyone else notice a decline in cognitive. Is it over reliance on apps and too much time fucking about on social media?
The second time you say... I would suggest you stop being a total cunt stop trying to make a young person look stupid, you asshole.
Sorry to spoil your rant but these were completely separate events. Different towns, restaurants and staff. On neither occasion was there any attempt to make the young person feel stupid. You might be projecting how you would act in such a situation. There's big difference between the interaction in the real situation and discussing it anonymously in a forum as a ‘topic’. But I suspect that difference might be above your comprehension somehow. Have a nice day "
It was only a suggestion, it's up to you how you get off on treating people.
Have a nice day too. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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To hey back to the question, I haven't noticed it to that extent. But I will confess my mental maths is terrible (I can do 10pc in my head tho. May then take some time adding it to the old number)
I also frequently count out things on my fingers?
Am I innumerate tho?
I'm going to say no. I have a masters in maths to say otherwise. I just never had to learn to do mental maths. Maybe some would say I am, and that's fine. There's a a difference between counting, sums, and maths ! |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Went out for a meal this evening. 2nd time in as many weeks that the young 20 something waiter/waitress (British) was quite strained to calculate their 10% tip.
Ok a sample of two is not exactly conclusive evidence we’re all doomed. But this is primary school maths. Anyone else notice a decline in cognitive. Is it over reliance on apps and too much time fucking about on social media?
The second time you say... I would suggest you stop being a total cunt stop trying to make a young person look stupid, you asshole.
Sorry to spoil your rant but these were completely separate events. Different towns, restaurants and staff. On neither occasion was there any attempt to make the young person feel stupid. You might be projecting how you would act in such a situation. There's big difference between the interaction in the real situation and discussing it anonymously in a forum as a ‘topic’. But I suspect that difference might be above your comprehension somehow. Have a nice day
It was only a suggestion, it's up to you how you get off on treating people.
Have a nice day too. "
Nobody's getting off on treating people. This thread is about general education skills standards, not about how to treat a waiter. That’s why it was posted in the politics sub forum where there has been much debate in recent weeks on education, skills, low pay and levelling up etc. it was in the context if these topics i thought the observation interesting
The interactions themselves were very polite and thankful for good service - that is why a tip was being offered unless that escaped you - i can assure you there was no attempt to belittle the waitress. That would be uncalled for an very impolite.
The only comments have been made after leaving the restaurant between family. And on this forum. So whilst I thank you for your helpful and well considered suggestion. It does somewhat help highlight that not only are there numeracy and literacy skills gaps in this country, but also comprehension might be an area requiring attention too.
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Work this one out then:
Three people went out for a meal it totalled £30. They split it three ways so £10 each. When the waitress took it to the cashier she said ‘I overcharged, it should only have totalled £25, take these five pound coins back to them”. Waitress thought bugger that I’ll give them a pound each back and pocket £2.
So, from an original total of £30 they’ve now each paid £9, 3x 9 = £27 she’s got £2 in her pocket - where is the other £1? |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"Work this one out then:
Three people went out for a meal it totalled £30. They split it three ways so £10 each. When the waitress took it to the cashier she said ‘I overcharged, it should only have totalled £25, take these five pound coins back to them”. Waitress thought bugger that I’ll give them a pound each back and pocket £2.
So, from an original total of £30 they’ve now each paid £9, 3x 9 = £27 she’s got £2 in her pocket - where is the other £1?"
The Tory restaurant owner stuck it in a tax haven |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Work this one out then:
Three people went out for a meal it totalled £30. They split it three ways so £10 each. When the waitress took it to the cashier she said ‘I overcharged, it should only have totalled £25, take these five pound coins back to them”. Waitress thought bugger that I’ll give them a pound each back and pocket £2.
So, from an original total of £30 they’ve now each paid £9, 3x 9 = £27 she’s got £2 in her pocket - where is the other £1?
The Tory restaurant owner stuck it in a tax haven "
This is how a certain Texan energy company made money until the game was up. Double accounting trickery and slight of hand.
What the customers actually paid and what they think they paid is not the same.
And quite a leap to assume a Tory owned the restaurant. Could well have been a vegan restaurant |
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"Work this one out then:
Three people went out for a meal it totalled £30. They split it three ways so £10 each. When the waitress took it to the cashier she said ‘I overcharged, it should only have totalled £25, take these five pound coins back to them”. Waitress thought bugger that I’ll give them a pound each back and pocket £2.
So, from an original total of £30 they’ve now each paid £9, 3x 9 = £27 she’s got £2 in her pocket - where is the other £1?
The Tory restaurant owner stuck it in a tax haven
This is how a certain Texan energy company made money until the game was up. Double accounting trickery and slight of hand.
What the customers actually paid and what they think they paid is not the same.
And quite a leap to assume a Tory owned the restaurant. Could well have been a vegan restaurant "
In Brighton that’s very likely. |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"Work this one out then:
Three people went out for a meal it totalled £30. They split it three ways so £10 each. When the waitress took it to the cashier she said ‘I overcharged, it should only have totalled £25, take these five pound coins back to them”. Waitress thought bugger that I’ll give them a pound each back and pocket £2.
So, from an original total of £30 they’ve now each paid £9, 3x 9 = £27 she’s got £2 in her pocket - where is the other £1?
The Tory restaurant owner stuck it in a tax haven
This is how a certain Texan energy company made money until the game was up. Double accounting trickery and slight of hand.
What the customers actually paid and what they think they paid is not the same.
And quite a leap to assume a Tory owned the restaurant. Could well have been a vegan restaurant
In Brighton that’s very likely."
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Went out for a meal this evening. 2nd time in as many weeks that the young 20 something waiter/waitress (British) was quite strained to calculate their 10% tip.
Ok a sample of two is not exactly conclusive evidence we’re all doomed. But this is primary school maths. Anyone else notice a decline in cognitive. Is it over reliance on apps and too much time fucking about on social media? "
Kids are getting thicker and thicker! |
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"And before anyone pipes up… well aware that the title should probably read ‘numeracy’. General term for “thick” escaped me ironically.
I think you'll find it should be "innumeracy" *sniff*
More seriously, dunno. I haven't had to ask or see anybody calculate anything for me recently. But I can imagine they use phones for everything now, with no real need for thinking involved.
You’re quite right, but either would have worked as a title/headline.
Quite possibly. Maybe the over reliance on technology is what causes these types of issues.
Also makes you wonder how levelling up is actually going to work.
I think it was around the start of the pandemic that the Govt ran adverts suggesting people retrain if they lost their jobs. Ballet dancers becoming cyber security specialist or some such drivel. Fat chance of that if someone can’t even divide a simple number by 10.
But I suppose in this victimless namby pamby woke culture we have now that we should not blame anyone for lacking basic life skills and that everyone else is to blame.
When inflation hits 10% how will they know if an extra 25p on the minimum wage will cover their extra cost of living?
Riddle me that one wordsmiths and quotation marl experts. 25p bigger than 10% innit. So what’s the issue with your gas bill? But if course the apologists will expect a windfall tax to subsidise them I suppose. Just tell them that 10% of 4.8bn is £4.80?
#fuckwits"
Not sure where you got to woke-ness from someone who couldn’t work out their tip? Maybe if you had asked her what the bill came to and offered her an amount it might have been easier for her to work it out? The overall theme of your post is that young people in low paid low skilled jobs are a bit thick isn’t it?
Strange really that in most of the restaurants I go to you are offered a discretionary tip on the bill which is usually between 10 and 15 per cent so most of the time the staff don’t need to have mental maths. Perhaps next time you should remember to take your glasses with you? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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If a bill is £62.38, while I could work out the tip easily, I'd likely need a second to work out the total. Add in the pressure of getting it wrong, and having a complaint, and I kinda feel for them.
Indeed, in this example the tip would be £7. Or maybe a total bill of £70.
Not all jobs need exact figures  |
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"
But I suppose in this victimless namby pamby woke culture we have now that we should not blame anyone for lacking basic life skills and that everyone else is to blame.
"
What's this got to do with people who aren't racist? |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"And before anyone pipes up… well aware that the title should probably read ‘numeracy’. General term for “thick” escaped me ironically.
I think you'll find it should be "innumeracy" *sniff*
More seriously, dunno. I haven't had to ask or see anybody calculate anything for me recently. But I can imagine they use phones for everything now, with no real need for thinking involved.
You’re quite right, but either would have worked as a title/headline.
Quite possibly. Maybe the over reliance on technology is what causes these types of issues.
Also makes you wonder how levelling up is actually going to work.
I think it was around the start of the pandemic that the Govt ran adverts suggesting people retrain if they lost their jobs. Ballet dancers becoming cyber security specialist or some such drivel. Fat chance of that if someone can’t even divide a simple number by 10.
But I suppose in this victimless namby pamby woke culture we have now that we should not blame anyone for lacking basic life skills and that everyone else is to blame.
When inflation hits 10% how will they know if an extra 25p on the minimum wage will cover their extra cost of living?
Riddle me that one wordsmiths and quotation marl experts. 25p bigger than 10% innit. So what’s the issue with your gas bill? But if course the apologists will expect a windfall tax to subsidise them I suppose. Just tell them that 10% of 4.8bn is £4.80?
#fuckwits
Not sure where you got to woke-ness from someone who couldn’t work out their tip? Maybe if you had asked her what the bill came to and offered her an amount it might have been easier for her to work it out? The overall theme of your post is that young people in low paid low skilled jobs are a bit thick isn’t it?
Strange really that in most of the restaurants I go to you are offered a discretionary tip on the bill which is usually between 10 and 15 per cent so most of the time the staff don’t need to have mental maths. Perhaps next time you should remember to take your glasses with you? "
I bloody hate that! It should be 100% my decision whether to add on a tip and not create an environment where you may have to ask for it to be removed. If I get good service I say thanks with a tip. Poor service, no tip. I have removed from the bill in the past, but my oh my does the atmosphere change! |
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"
But I suppose in this victimless namby pamby woke culture we have now that we should not blame anyone for lacking basic life skills and that everyone else is to blame.
What's this got to do with people who aren't racist? "
It’s probably nothing to do with them, perhaps it’s just the forgetfulness of old age! Oh wait a minute….am I being ageist? |
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"And before anyone pipes up… well aware that the title should probably read ‘numeracy’. General term for “thick” escaped me ironically.
I think you'll find it should be "innumeracy" *sniff*
More seriously, dunno. I haven't had to ask or see anybody calculate anything for me recently. But I can imagine they use phones for everything now, with no real need for thinking involved.
You’re quite right, but either would have worked as a title/headline.
Quite possibly. Maybe the over reliance on technology is what causes these types of issues.
Also makes you wonder how levelling up is actually going to work.
I think it was around the start of the pandemic that the Govt ran adverts suggesting people retrain if they lost their jobs. Ballet dancers becoming cyber security specialist or some such drivel. Fat chance of that if someone can’t even divide a simple number by 10.
But I suppose in this victimless namby pamby woke culture we have now that we should not blame anyone for lacking basic life skills and that everyone else is to blame.
When inflation hits 10% how will they know if an extra 25p on the minimum wage will cover their extra cost of living?
Riddle me that one wordsmiths and quotation marl experts. 25p bigger than 10% innit. So what’s the issue with your gas bill? But if course the apologists will expect a windfall tax to subsidise them I suppose. Just tell them that 10% of 4.8bn is £4.80?
#fuckwits
Not sure where you got to woke-ness from someone who couldn’t work out their tip? Maybe if you had asked her what the bill came to and offered her an amount it might have been easier for her to work it out? The overall theme of your post is that young people in low paid low skilled jobs are a bit thick isn’t it?
Strange really that in most of the restaurants I go to you are offered a discretionary tip on the bill which is usually between 10 and 15 per cent so most of the time the staff don’t need to have mental maths. Perhaps next time you should remember to take your glasses with you?
I bloody hate that! It should be 100% my decision whether to add on a tip and not create an environment where you may have to ask for it to be removed. If I get good service I say thanks with a tip. Poor service, no tip. I have removed from the bill in the past, but my oh my does the atmosphere change!"
One of the problems with not tipping is that often a proportion of the tip goes to the kitchen and will be used to top up the poor wages of the KP’s (kitchen porter) so if you have an issue with service it is better to talk to the floor manager at the time. Not all restaurants work like that though I must admit. |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
https://www.ft.com/content/bbf6ca4b-0405-4ca7-bb31-990b55ee75cd
As if by magic, another broken promise from the Tories...They have dropped legislation to ensure staff receive tips rather than restaurants retaining the “tips” or “discretionary service charge”. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"And before anyone pipes up… well aware that the title should probably read ‘numeracy’. General term for “thick” escaped me ironically.
I think you'll find it should be "innumeracy" *sniff*
More seriously, dunno. I haven't had to ask or see anybody calculate anything for me recently. But I can imagine they use phones for everything now, with no real need for thinking involved.
You’re quite right, but either would have worked as a title/headline.
Quite possibly. Maybe the over reliance on technology is what causes these types of issues.
Also makes you wonder how levelling up is actually going to work.
I think it was around the start of the pandemic that the Govt ran adverts suggesting people retrain if they lost their jobs. Ballet dancers becoming cyber security specialist or some such drivel. Fat chance of that if someone can’t even divide a simple number by 10.
But I suppose in this victimless namby pamby woke culture we have now that we should not blame anyone for lacking basic life skills and that everyone else is to blame.
When inflation hits 10% how will they know if an extra 25p on the minimum wage will cover their extra cost of living?
Riddle me that one wordsmiths and quotation marl experts. 25p bigger than 10% innit. So what’s the issue with your gas bill? But if course the apologists will expect a windfall tax to subsidise them I suppose. Just tell them that 10% of 4.8bn is £4.80?
#fuckwits
Not sure where you got to woke-ness from someone who couldn’t work out their tip? Maybe if you had asked her what the bill came to and offered her an amount it might have been easier for her to work it out? The overall theme of your post is that young people in low paid low skilled jobs are a bit thick isn’t it?
Strange really that in most of the restaurants I go to you are offered a discretionary tip on the bill which is usually between 10 and 15 per cent so most of the time the staff don’t need to have mental maths. Perhaps next time you should remember to take your glasses with you? "
The restaurant had a system that allowed self service to pay. A pandemic benefit feature. It did not work. Tried it twice. That system had as you pointed out an option for a pre calculated option. But could not be used in this instance.
The conversation then moved to a request to process a manual payment, and this required a specific amount to be entered. So we enquired if the tips (all) go to the staff and stated please add 10%. She struggled to calculate 10% of £42 so we said in the end just add a fixed amount which she did. Then job done. I’ve no idea how the hand held terminal - i did not design or integrate their POS system for this chain.
There was no issue at all with the restaurant staff. They were great.
Ultimately it is what it is. People seem really put out that there’s an exception of basic numeracy and for that I can only apologise. I’m clearly in the minority here expecting this. Shall adapt and move on
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"If a bill is £62.38, while I could work out the tip easily, I'd likely need a second to work out the total. Add in the pressure of getting it wrong, and having a complaint, and I kinda feel for them.
Indeed, in this example the tip would be £7. Or maybe a total bill of £70.
Not all jobs need exact figures "
I think you’re quite right. The amounts were trivial, but seems the system needed a specific number than a button press.
There was no pressure placed as she stepped away to try and figure it out.
Evidently based on general feedback nobody else expects restaurant staff to be able to do this and have not witnessed similar challenges.
Case closed i expect. Anyway, she got her well deserved tip, that’s the main thing. The rest is just yesterday's news. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"If a bill is £62.38, while I could work out the tip easily, I'd likely need a second to work out the total. Add in the pressure of getting it wrong, and having a complaint, and I kinda feel for them.
Indeed, in this example the tip would be £7. Or maybe a total bill of £70.
Not all jobs need exact figures
I think you’re quite right. The amounts were trivial, but seems the system needed a specific number than a button press.
There was no pressure placed as she stepped away to try and figure it out.
Evidently based on general feedback nobody else expects restaurant staff to be able to do this and have not witnessed similar challenges.
Case closed i expect. Anyway, she got her well deserved tip, that’s the main thing. The rest is just yesterday's news. "
new thread ... Is 10pc the right tip !
And do you tip via cash or adding it onto the credit card? I never have cash nowadays but don't like simply adding it to the bill, especially if it's a larger tip for exceptional service. I've had poor meals that have been rescued by great service (I've also had poor service rescued by great meals and make a point of trying to pay the tip direct to the kitchen. That's tricky!!)
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"
But I suppose in this victimless namby pamby woke culture we have now that we should not blame anyone for lacking basic life skills and that everyone else is to blame.
What's this got to do with people who aren't racist?
It’s probably nothing to do with them, perhaps it’s just the forgetfulness of old age! Oh wait a minute….am I being ageist? "
What’s race got to do with any if this?
BTW woke comment was a pisstake. Incase it is not clear it qas a dig at the leftist attitude that nobody is to blame for any of their own deficiencies - inability calculate a percentage is down to (and I jest)
Poor education system
Abusive parents
Brexit
Technilogy making skills obsolete.
In other words everyone else fail other than the person with the inability to do a particular thing. “Oh bless, not their faul” - got fk all to do with racism so no idea why that’s even mentioned.
Or have I missed a memo that “woke” only applies to those who abhor racism?
If the definition has changed then i retract and apologies the word especially in the definition I did not take to also mean exclusively. Leaving room for other applications. So replace woke with lack of personal responsibility if you wish. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"If a bill is £62.38, while I could work out the tip easily, I'd likely need a second to work out the total. Add in the pressure of getting it wrong, and having a complaint, and I kinda feel for them.
Indeed, in this example the tip would be £7. Or maybe a total bill of £70.
Not all jobs need exact figures
I think you’re quite right. The amounts were trivial, but seems the system needed a specific number than a button press.
There was no pressure placed as she stepped away to try and figure it out.
Evidently based on general feedback nobody else expects restaurant staff to be able to do this and have not witnessed similar challenges.
Case closed i expect. Anyway, she got her well deserved tip, that’s the main thing. The rest is just yesterday's news. new thread ... Is 10pc the right tip !
And do you tip via cash or adding it onto the credit card? I never have cash nowadays but don't like simply adding it to the bill, especially if it's a larger tip for exceptional service. I've had poor meals that have been rescued by great service (I've also had poor service rescued by great meals and make a point of trying to pay the tip direct to the kitchen. That's tricky!!)
"
Probably not really given low wages and cost of living.
Lack of day to day cash is hard in these situations. Inevitably end up paying with card. So probably some skimming involved.
I figure 10% is adequate for a restaurant that involved ordering from a QR Code and they do is bring a tray of plates to a table and clear up. For more involved service I’d suggest 15% is more appropriate. Very much depends on the circumstances. Used to wait tables years ago and it can be a nice earner if you impress your guests. Not sure these days as everything is apparently about exploration and keeping the man down. We should probably give them a house and the keys to our car just for showing us the table |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
So in conclusion:
Being concerned about such things makes one a cunt and an arsehole.
Technology today means we should not expect people to have such skills so posting about it is pointless and unnecessary.
There is no evidence that the education system is failing the younger generations and therefor by extension there is no need to increase investment in state schools or penalise private schools to “level up”.
10% is probably not enough of a tip.
The blind and the aged should carry their fookin glasses and not depend on others to read for them.
Something about quotation marks - but i forget so never mind.
Boris has broken another promise - therefore the need to be able to calculate a tip is even further undermined. If you don’t get to keep it then who's going to give it!
We can’t really pin this one on Brexit - despite the exodus if Phd wielding Polish waiters leaving us at the mercy of the local staff.
Anything missed?
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By *I TwoCouple
over a year ago
PDI 12-26th Nov 24 |
Why tip?
As far as I'm aware everyone in the UK is paid a minimum wage regardless of the job they do
Again as far as I'm aware in the USA the minimum wage depends on the expected tips the employee will receive
If and when I tip it's a reflection of exceptional service regardless of where I am. I recently tipped a B&Q employee £10 for helping me with an item when he went way beyond what I expected but I'd never think of tipping if I were in McDonald's
Is the supermarket till attendant any less deserving than the barman in my local ? |
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"So in conclusion:
Being concerned about such things makes one a cunt and an arsehole.
Technology today means we should not expect people to have such skills so posting about it is pointless and unnecessary.
There is no evidence that the education system is failing the younger generations and therefor by extension there is no need to increase investment in state schools or penalise private schools to “level up”.
10% is probably not enough of a tip.
The blind and the aged should carry their fookin glasses and not depend on others to read for them.
Something about quotation marks - but i forget so never mind.
Boris has broken another promise - therefore the need to be able to calculate a tip is even further undermined. If you don’t get to keep it then who's going to give it!
We can’t really pin this one on Brexit - despite the exodus if Phd wielding Polish waiters leaving us at the mercy of the local staff.
Anything missed?
"
The point of all of this is that you appeared to be suggesting that all young people are unable to do a quick mental calculation of 110 per cent, which may or may not be true but I rather doubt it. You later went on to say that this was all down to wokeness. Then it appears that the restaurant is a self service with QR code ordering and so your generosity was probably out of character with the place while also mentioning that you didn’t have your glasses with you so you couldn’t read the bill or help with the calculation. So not being funny but don’t you think you might have been a little disingenuous with this whole story?
As a riposte to your story though, I have three kids who have all worked as waiters and bar staff ever since they could and all through their degrees too and all of them (even the dyslexic and dyspraxic one) can do mental maths while charming the customer so I think it’s more likely that the waiters you had a problem with were either not good at customer service or possibly were a bit scared of you! How’s that leg feeling now? |
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By *atEvolutionCouple
over a year ago
atlantisEVOLUTION Swingers Club. Stoke |
"Brexit?
"
Yes. Got to be Brexit!
But actually no. We find that most young people who are working as waitresses/waiters, at least where we dine, are University Students helping to pay for life on Campus. So. Usually quite well qualified already.
They have a really crap work life, not only with the level of work output required of them, but also the demands of impatient and non-appreciative customers.
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"So in conclusion:
Being concerned about such things makes one a cunt and an arsehole.
Technology today means we should not expect people to have such skills so posting about it is pointless and unnecessary.
There is no evidence that the education system is failing the younger generations and therefor by extension there is no need to increase investment in state schools or penalise private schools to “level up”.
10% is probably not enough of a tip.
The blind and the aged should carry their fookin glasses and not depend on others to read for them.
Something about quotation marks - but i forget so never mind.
Boris has broken another promise - therefore the need to be able to calculate a tip is even further undermined. If you don’t get to keep it then who's going to give it!
We can’t really pin this one on Brexit - despite the exodus if Phd wielding Polish waiters leaving us at the mercy of the local staff.
Anything missed?
The point of all of this is that you appeared to be suggesting that all young people are unable to do a quick mental calculation of 110 per cent, which may or may not be true but I rather doubt it. You later went on to say that this was all down to wokeness. Then it appears that the restaurant is a self service with QR code ordering and so your generosity was probably out of character with the place while also mentioning that you didn’t have your glasses with you so you couldn’t read the bill or help with the calculation. So not being funny but don’t you think you might have been a little disingenuous with this whole story?
As a riposte to your story though, I have three kids who have all worked as waiters and bar staff ever since they could and all through their degrees too and all of them (even the dyslexic and dyspraxic one) can do mental maths while charming the customer so I think it’s more likely that the waiters you had a problem with were either not good at customer service or possibly were a bit scared of you! How’s that leg feeling now? "
1) never suggested that ALL young people lacked the same skill. Please note the self admission that a sample of 2 does not make a survey. So sorry you failed on that rebuke.
2) the whole point was to solicit feedback of other’s similar experience - none of which has been forthcoming one way or another. So in conclusion - my question drew a blank at best.
3) not sure why you think it was disingenuous. The facts are as they are. Two similar experiences.
4) no legs were harmed in the making if this thread. So immaterial. Everyone involved stood tall on both legs.
So what’s your point? |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"Brexit?
Yes. Got to be Brexit!
But actually no. We find that most young people who are working as waitresses/waiters, at least where we dine, are University Students helping to pay for life on Campus. So. Usually quite well qualified already.
They have a really crap work life, not only with the level of work output required of them, but also the demands of impatient and non-appreciative customers.
I did not want to make this assumption, but the town in which we dine is a busy and popular University town. The young lady who served us struck me as probably being privately educated and possibly a student or graduate. She was at last 21 or 22 at best guess. Very well spoken. Impeccable manners and customer services skills. She was a delight in all aspects of her job. At no point was the maths challenge a big deal in the interaction, certainly not to the extent of causing any fear as the numpty above suggested (why? what in this whole story gave that impression). It was in fact a comment By my youngest daughter in the way home that promoted the thought process. She asked why the waitress had struggled with such a simple calculation. That reminded me of a encounter the previous week where a similar thing had happened. Hence the post.
But evidently wider audience think it is not a big deal and beyond expectation. So will leave them to it.
No skin off anyone’s nose at the end of the day. It was a simple observation and a tongue in cheek poke at the lefty brigade that complain about education investment. Their assertion that skills are lacking and people don’t have opportunity to learn is evidently flawed if reaction to this OP is anything to go by.
"
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"So in conclusion:
Being concerned about such things makes one a cunt and an arsehole.
Technology today means we should not expect people to have such skills so posting about it is pointless and unnecessary.
There is no evidence that the education system is failing the younger generations and therefor by extension there is no need to increase investment in state schools or penalise private schools to “level up”.
10% is probably not enough of a tip.
The blind and the aged should carry their fookin glasses and not depend on others to read for them.
Something about quotation marks - but i forget so never mind.
Boris has broken another promise - therefore the need to be able to calculate a tip is even further undermined. If you don’t get to keep it then who's going to give it!
We can’t really pin this one on Brexit - despite the exodus if Phd wielding Polish waiters leaving us at the mercy of the local staff.
Anything missed?
The point of all of this is that you appeared to be suggesting that all young people are unable to do a quick mental calculation of 110 per cent, which may or may not be true but I rather doubt it. You later went on to say that this was all down to wokeness. Then it appears that the restaurant is a self service with QR code ordering and so your generosity was probably out of character with the place while also mentioning that you didn’t have your glasses with you so you couldn’t read the bill or help with the calculation. So not being funny but don’t you think you might have been a little disingenuous with this whole story?
As a riposte to your story though, I have three kids who have all worked as waiters and bar staff ever since they could and all through their degrees too and all of them (even the dyslexic and dyspraxic one) can do mental maths while charming the customer so I think it’s more likely that the waiters you had a problem with were either not good at customer service or possibly were a bit scared of you! How’s that leg feeling now? "
Oh and to add (and Mr here not Jenny) i’m also apparently dyslexic, and have ADHD or Asperger's disorder. Or whatever they called it the 80s. could not read until I was 13. Went to secondary school and was out in remedial stream, yet somehow managed to eventually get top A level grades, a Law degree, and despite immense boredom with the courses a couple of post grads. And also worked as a waiter for a couple of years to help fund study it until a business took off to pay the bill. And amazingly somehow managed to be able to calculate percentages.
So I don’t buy the bullshit that dyslexia or other mentalist bullshit is an impediment to mediocrity or minor success. (Which I consider myself to have achieved - i only managed to earn enough to pay 6 digits in tax the past few years so have not really amounted to much of note in the grand scheme of things). Still striving for the 7 digit threshold. It will come with a bit of hard work and perseverance.
But if the consensus is that young adults should not need or be expected to calculate 10% then I’m happy to stand corrected. Ultimately it was just an observation and one that cost not a sinhle bead of sweat off my arse. |
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This has been happening for years, I often chuckle to myself when I see a youngster struggle with numbers. It could be nerves, could be they didn't do too well in certain subjects in school like myself.
I suppose it didn't help when kids could use calculators in school, instead of being able to work things out.
Who needs to spell, when everyone seems to use text speak. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"11 years of free education and millions still can't read, write or do basic maths. How is that even possible?"
Have you read the fab forum much before?
(I joke) |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Went out for a meal this evening. 2nd time in as many weeks that the young 20 something waiter/waitress (British) was quite strained to calculate their 10% tip.
Ok a sample of two is not exactly conclusive evidence we’re all doomed. But this is primary school maths. Anyone else notice a decline in cognitive. Is it over reliance on apps and too much time fucking about on social media? "
Aww who’s a bit grumpy!, better get you into your slippers and get you a nice cup of ovaltine. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"Went out for a meal this evening. 2nd time in as many weeks that the young 20 something waiter/waitress (British) was quite strained to calculate their 10% tip.
Ok a sample of two is not exactly conclusive evidence we’re all doomed. But this is primary school maths. Anyone else notice a decline in cognitive. Is it over reliance on apps and too much time fucking about on social media?
Aww who’s a bit grumpy!, better get you into your slippers and get you a nice cup of ovaltine."
Who’s grump? Can’t see anything to be grumpy about here. Is it not possible tk make a social observation without emotion? Grumpy suggests a degree of anger.
Think more Vulcan and you might understand. If there was any emotion or feeling at all, it was pity and mirth. Certainly no anger or grumpiness. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"11 years of free education and millions still can't read, write or do basic maths. How is that even possible?"
It is possible because 50% of humans are below average intelligence. Tech ology enables them to exist and potter about at substance level. And a Government that knows it is pointless educating them continues to reduce the amount it spends. The immoral aspect is that it does not acknowledge this fact publicly and enable a fair, liveable citizens income.
Give it another 10 years of globalisation, AI, ML, Automation and robotics. Do you really think that there will be a job that “Kevin or Tracey” who has little common sense, can’t tell “their from they’re” and can’r calculate 20% will be of much use for. Yet they will still need shelter, food and clothing.
These are hard facts. Not grumpiness, as grumpiness would require giving a fk about “Kevin or Tracey's” plight. The Vulcan view simply seems them as redundant. A it like the Dodo or a lump of coal |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"11 years of free education and millions still can't read, write or do basic maths. How is that even possible?
It is possible because 50% of humans are below average intelligence. Tech ology enables them to exist and potter about at substance level. And a Government that knows it is pointless educating them continues to reduce the amount it spends. The immoral aspect is that it does not acknowledge this fact publicly and enable a fair, liveable citizens income.
Give it another 10 years of globalisation, AI, ML, Automation and robotics. Do you really think that there will be a job that “Kevin or Tracey” who has little common sense, can’t tell “their from they’re” and can’r calculate 20% will be of much use for. Yet they will still need shelter, food and clothing.
These are hard facts. Not grumpiness, as grumpiness would require giving a fk about “Kevin or Tracey's” plight. The Vulcan view simply seems them as redundant. A it like the Dodo or a lump of coal "
I'm trying to work out of I'm a Kevin or not... My mental maths is poor, while I have the basics of grammar, my communication style is convoluted ... And many will challenge if I have common sense.
Very employable tho 
The skills for the future will be very different to the skills of the past. Imo, the Victorian way of rules and right and wrongs, isnt useful for the future workforce ... |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"11 years of free education and millions still can't read, write or do basic maths. How is that even possible?
It is possible because 50% of humans are below average intelligence. Tech ology enables them to exist and potter about at substance level. And a Government that knows it is pointless educating them continues to reduce the amount it spends. The immoral aspect is that it does not acknowledge this fact publicly and enable a fair, liveable citizens income.
Give it another 10 years of globalisation, AI, ML, Automation and robotics. Do you really think that there will be a job that “Kevin or Tracey” who has little common sense, can’t tell “their from they’re” and can’r calculate 20% will be of much use for. Yet they will still need shelter, food and clothing.
These are hard facts. Not grumpiness, as grumpiness would require giving a fk about “Kevin or Tracey's” plight. The Vulcan view simply seems them as redundant. A it like the Dodo or a lump of coal "
Gotta say there is a delicious irony in your post due to typos |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"11 years of free education and millions still can't read, write or do basic maths. How is that even possible?
It is possible because 50% of humans are below average intelligence. Tech ology enables them to exist and potter about at substance level. And a Government that knows it is pointless educating them continues to reduce the amount it spends. The immoral aspect is that it does not acknowledge this fact publicly and enable a fair, liveable citizens income.
Give it another 10 years of globalisation, AI, ML, Automation and robotics. Do you really think that there will be a job that “Kevin or Tracey” who has little common sense, can’t tell “their from they’re” and can’r calculate 20% will be of much use for. Yet they will still need shelter, food and clothing.
These are hard facts. Not grumpiness, as grumpiness would require giving a fk about “Kevin or Tracey's” plight. The Vulcan view simply seems them as redundant. A it like the Dodo or a lump of coal
Gotta say there is a delicious irony in your post due to typos "
Lol. Need to go to spec savers. Or at least not post when d*unk and without glasses |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"11 years of free education and millions still can't read, write or do basic maths. How is that even possible?
It is possible because 50% of humans are below average intelligence. Tech ology enables them to exist and potter about at substance level. And a Government that knows it is pointless educating them continues to reduce the amount it spends. The immoral aspect is that it does not acknowledge this fact publicly and enable a fair, liveable citizens income.
Give it another 10 years of globalisation, AI, ML, Automation and robotics. Do you really think that there will be a job that “Kevin or Tracey” who has little common sense, can’t tell “their from they’re” and can’r calculate 20% will be of much use for. Yet they will still need shelter, food and clothing.
These are hard facts. Not grumpiness, as grumpiness would require giving a fk about “Kevin or Tracey's” plight. The Vulcan view simply seems them as redundant. A it like the Dodo or a lump of coal "
Nah. Schools educate children, not the Government. Too many of them are not up to the job or are overwhelmed by disruptive students. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"11 years of free education and millions still can't read, write or do basic maths. How is that even possible?
It is possible because 50% of humans are below average intelligence. Tech ology enables them to exist and potter about at substance level. And a Government that knows it is pointless educating them continues to reduce the amount it spends. The immoral aspect is that it does not acknowledge this fact publicly and enable a fair, liveable citizens income.
Give it another 10 years of globalisation, AI, ML, Automation and robotics. Do you really think that there will be a job that “Kevin or Tracey” who has little common sense, can’t tell “their from they’re” and can’r calculate 20% will be of much use for. Yet they will still need shelter, food and clothing.
These are hard facts. Not grumpiness, as grumpiness would require giving a fk about “Kevin or Tracey's” plight. The Vulcan view simply seems them as redundant. A it like the Dodo or a lump of coal
Nah. Schools educate children, not the Government. Too many of them are not up to the job or are overwhelmed by disruptive students. "
Who sets education policy?
Who funds education (or manages the legislative framework that defines the funding means and mechanisms?)
Yea it is is the school that deliver the education. But is is the Government that shapes the means by which that delivery can take place.
Who’s “fault” is it that the push is for ‘academia for all’ rather than appropriate vocational skills? Is that down to individual schools or government policy? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"11 years of free education and millions still can't read, write or do basic maths. How is that even possible?
It is possible because 50% of humans are below average intelligence. Tech ology enables them to exist and potter about at substance level. And a Government that knows it is pointless educating them continues to reduce the amount it spends. The immoral aspect is that it does not acknowledge this fact publicly and enable a fair, liveable citizens income.
Give it another 10 years of globalisation, AI, ML, Automation and robotics. Do you really think that there will be a job that “Kevin or Tracey” who has little common sense, can’t tell “their from they’re” and can’r calculate 20% will be of much use for. Yet they will still need shelter, food and clothing.
These are hard facts. Not grumpiness, as grumpiness would require giving a fk about “Kevin or Tracey's” plight. The Vulcan view simply seems them as redundant. A it like the Dodo or a lump of coal
Nah. Schools educate children, not the Government. Too many of them are not up to the job or are overwhelmed by disruptive students.
Who sets education policy?
Who funds education (or manages the legislative framework that defines the funding means and mechanisms?)
Yea it is is the school that deliver the education. But is is the Government that shapes the means by which that delivery can take place.
Who’s “fault” is it that the push is for ‘academia for all’ rather than appropriate vocational skills? Is that down to individual schools or government policy? "
I blame the miners strike in 74. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"11 years of free education and millions still can't read, write or do basic maths. How is that even possible?
It is possible because 50% of humans are below average intelligence. Tech ology enables them to exist and potter about at substance level. And a Government that knows it is pointless educating them continues to reduce the amount it spends. The immoral aspect is that it does not acknowledge this fact publicly and enable a fair, liveable citizens income.
Give it another 10 years of globalisation, AI, ML, Automation and robotics. Do you really think that there will be a job that “Kevin or Tracey” who has little common sense, can’t tell “their from they’re” and can’r calculate 20% will be of much use for. Yet they will still need shelter, food and clothing.
These are hard facts. Not grumpiness, as grumpiness would require giving a fk about “Kevin or Tracey's” plight. The Vulcan view simply seems them as redundant. A it like the Dodo or a lump of coal
Nah. Schools educate children, not the Government. Too many of them are not up to the job or are overwhelmed by disruptive students.
Who sets education policy?
Who funds education (or manages the legislative framework that defines the funding means and mechanisms?)
Yea it is is the school that deliver the education. But is is the Government that shapes the means by which that delivery can take place.
Who’s “fault” is it that the push is for ‘academia for all’ rather than appropriate vocational skills? Is that down to individual schools or government policy?
I blame the miners strike in 74."
Any particular mine, or just generally? |
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By *SMairTV/TS
over a year ago
Mansfield |
Interest - Interest - Interest
Lad in our street hardly ever went to school. His Dad whose an Electrician said I'll get you one job if you don't stick it you're out of the house.
One of his Dad's mates wanted a learner. The lad took to it and did 2 years C&G qualis at night school.
Then started on his own doing agency work. Last time I saw him, he and his GF were going to buy a new house.
If you teach crap, you get crap. Aptitude tests have been around in the armed forces for over 100 years. |
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"And before anyone pipes up… well aware that the title should probably read ‘numeracy’. General term for “thick” escaped me ironically.
While this thread is about innumeracy, based on the evidence in the fab forums, illiteracy is also rife! Typos aside, the number of people who don’t know the difference between there, their, they’re or wear, where, or to, too, two or when to use which or that, is astounding!"
The use of ironically doesn't apply in this case, either. |
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