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‘An act of self harm’
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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JRM (minister of BO) has stated that imposing and implementation of the Brexits deal on import checks would be an ‘act of self harm’. Good news for EU exports to the UK, really bad news for UK exports to the EU. |
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"JRM (minister of BO) has stated that imposing and implementation of the Brexits deal on import checks would be an ‘act of self harm’. Good news for EU exports to the UK, really bad news for UK exports to the EU. "
Ah, so the BO's are actually all O's for the EU and other countries.
Interesting. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"JRM (minister of BO) has stated that imposing and implementation of the Brexits deal on import checks would be an ‘act of self harm’. Good news for EU exports to the UK, really bad news for UK exports to the EU.
Ah, so the BO's are actually all O's for the EU and other countries.
Interesting."
It was definitely a strange thing to say,  |
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By *ackal1Couple
over a year ago
Manchester |
But seamless trade was promised by Boris and Mogg. So all these losses to business and customers ultimately for nothing other than tax avoidance and closing our borders to workers.
Mogg publicly admits Brexit is bad for business.
Still he did financially very well out of it so that’s good then.  |
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"But seamless trade was promised by Boris and Mogg. So all these losses to business and customers ultimately for nothing other than tax avoidance and closing our borders to workers.
Mogg publicly admits Brexit is bad for business.
Still he did financially very well out of it so that’s good then. "
This is what people wanted though, they knew what they were voting for. |
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"JRM (minister of BO) has stated that imposing and implementation of the Brexits deal on import checks would be an ‘act of self harm’. Good news for EU exports to the UK, really bad news for UK exports to the EU.
Ah, so the BO's are actually all O's for the EU and other countries.
Interesting.
It was definitely a strange thing to say, "
A rare moment of honesty from the Mogg? |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"JRM (minister of BO) has stated that imposing and implementation of the Brexits deal on import checks would be an ‘act of self harm’. Good news for EU exports to the UK, really bad news for UK exports to the EU.
Ah, so the BO's are actually all O's for the EU and other countries.
Interesting.
It was definitely a strange thing to say,
A rare moment of honesty from the Mogg?"
Maybe, but at this stage he doesn’t care , and like you said, they knew what they voted for so it was to be expected |
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By *al2001Man
over a year ago
kildare |
Are him and frost totally detached from all reality.
It's like they are both talking about events as outsiders and they had no hand act or part in any of it.
It would be hilarious if it wasn't so sickening |
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"Are him and frost totally detached from all reality.
It's like they are both talking about events as outsiders and they had no hand act or part in any of it.
It would be hilarious if it wasn't so sickening"
People who think Brexit is a good idea fall for it though. So I can see why they don't bother trying to hide it. |
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By *ackal1Couple
over a year ago
Manchester |
I remember Boris saying fuck business then Gove saying if business isn’t ready it’s their own fault . There were no rules until 8 days before the changes of which three were bank holidays which meant government departments were closed. So in reality it was virtually impossible to be ready.
The biggest delays were caused in fact by the government customs not being ready. They are still struggling with some exports today.
Now here we are again with another pushback and the reason is it’s too cumbersome and costly to implement for industry which is very true .
There is however an additional reason which is being hidden. The government a year and a half after business “needs to be ready” are still not in a position to operate the rules due to a chronic lack of infrastructure and staff.
Brexit doesn’t just keep giving it showers us with costly gifts!!
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"I remember Boris saying fuck business then Gove saying if business isn’t ready it’s their own fault . There were no rules until 8 days before the changes of which three were bank holidays which meant government departments were closed. So in reality it was virtually impossible to be ready.
The biggest delays were caused in fact by the government customs not being ready. They are still struggling with some exports today.
Now here we are again with another pushback and the reason is it’s too cumbersome and costly to implement for industry which is very true .
There is however an additional reason which is being hidden. The government a year and a half after business “needs to be ready” are still not in a position to operate the rules due to a chronic lack of infrastructure and staff.
Brexit doesn’t just keep giving it showers us with costly gifts!!
"
And we keep being told that Brexit is ‘done’ |
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By *ackal1Couple
over a year ago
Manchester |
"I remember Boris saying fuck business then Gove saying if business isn’t ready it’s their own fault . There were no rules until 8 days before the changes of which three were bank holidays which meant government departments were closed. So in reality it was virtually impossible to be ready.
The biggest delays were caused in fact by the government customs not being ready. They are still struggling with some exports today.
Now here we are again with another pushback and the reason is it’s too cumbersome and costly to implement for industry which is very true .
There is however an additional reason which is being hidden. The government a year and a half after business “needs to be ready” are still not in a position to operate the rules due to a chronic lack of infrastructure and staff.
Brexit doesn’t just keep giving it showers us with costly gifts!!
And we keep being told that Brexit is ‘done’ "
No there’s a lot more cost to add yet.
But it’s time to move on I keep being told!!
Really ? Can I take my wallet with me? I’m sure it will work out in 50 years .. |
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"JRM (minister of BO) has stated that imposing and implementation of the Brexits deal on import checks would be an ‘act of self harm’. Good news for EU exports to the UK, really bad news for UK exports to the EU. "
Is he the minster for BO because Brexit stinks?
 |
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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago
North West |
I heard this exchange in part and then searched for the full interview in case it had been taken out of context. It really is quite astonishing what he said.
There could be an arguable mitigation that he and his Conservative Brexiters believe absolutely in bilateral free trade, but then that argument only highlights their naivety about how the world works.
Free trade is (as he said) great, but you cannot destroy your own food and export market by opening the doors wide when your partners won’t act with equivalence. A free market agreement is needed to facilitate free trade so that the respective internal markets can be protected.
We had that - it was called the customs Union and was enhanced with a British conservative inspired idea called the Single Market. A generation later, current Conservatives appear not to know their history.
Astonishing. |
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"I heard this exchange in part and then searched for the full interview in case it had been taken out of context. It really is quite astonishing what he said.
There could be an arguable mitigation that he and his Conservative Brexiters believe absolutely in bilateral free trade, but then that argument only highlights their naivety about how the world works.
Free trade is (as he said) great, but you cannot destroy your own food and export market by opening the doors wide when your partners won’t act with equivalence. A free market agreement is needed to facilitate free trade so that the respective internal markets can be protected.
We had that - it was called the customs Union and was enhanced with a British conservative inspired idea called the Single Market. A generation later, current Conservatives appear not to know their history.
Astonishing."
Mogg is such a weird guy. I can't understand why he gets any votes at all.
He said he votes against gay rights every time because he thinks his favourite super hero would want him to.
Absolutely mad bastard. But he gets the votes. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I heard this exchange in part and then searched for the full interview in case it had been taken out of context. It really is quite astonishing what he said.
There could be an arguable mitigation that he and his Conservative Brexiters believe absolutely in bilateral free trade, but then that argument only highlights their naivety about how the world works.
Free trade is (as he said) great, but you cannot destroy your own food and export market by opening the doors wide when your partners won’t act with equivalence. A free market agreement is needed to facilitate free trade so that the respective internal markets can be protected.
We had that - it was called the customs Union and was enhanced with a British conservative inspired idea called the Single Market. A generation later, current Conservatives appear not to know their history.
Astonishing."
was this really linked to price rise quote ? As I thought that was about imports... And leaving the door unlocked for a bit longer ... |
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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago
North West |
"I heard this exchange in part and then searched for the full interview in case it had been taken out of context. It really is quite astonishing what he said.
There could be an arguable mitigation that he and his Conservative Brexiters believe absolutely in bilateral free trade, but then that argument only highlights their naivety about how the world works.
Free trade is (as he said) great, but you cannot destroy your own food and export market by opening the doors wide when your partners won’t act with equivalence. A free market agreement is needed to facilitate free trade so that the respective internal markets can be protected.
We had that - it was called the customs Union and was enhanced with a British conservative inspired idea called the Single Market. A generation later, current Conservatives appear not to know their history.
Astonishing.was this really linked to price rise quote ? As I thought that was about imports... And leaving the door unlocked for a bit longer ..."
He said that implementing the full customs checks and controls at border would be an act of self harm.
So we now have U.K. exporters and farmers facing checks and controls on the EU border, but the checks and controls on the U.K. border as negotiated will not be implemented until the end of 2023 at the earliest. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I heard this exchange in part and then searched for the full interview in case it had been taken out of context. It really is quite astonishing what he said.
There could be an arguable mitigation that he and his Conservative Brexiters believe absolutely in bilateral free trade, but then that argument only highlights their naivety about how the world works.
Free trade is (as he said) great, but you cannot destroy your own food and export market by opening the doors wide when your partners won’t act with equivalence. A free market agreement is needed to facilitate free trade so that the respective internal markets can be protected.
We had that - it was called the customs Union and was enhanced with a British conservative inspired idea called the Single Market. A generation later, current Conservatives appear not to know their history.
Astonishing.was this really linked to price rise quote ? As I thought that was about imports... And leaving the door unlocked for a bit longer ...
He said that implementing the full customs checks and controls at border would be an act of self harm.
So we now have U.K. exporters and farmers facing checks and controls on the EU border, but the checks and controls on the U.K. border as negotiated will not be implemented until the end of 2023 at the earliest."
indeed. So he is leaving the door open.
I wonder at what point does MFN kick in and we open the door to all.
It's crazy to think people were getting so annoyed the EU were not believing our solutions to NI would work, when we can't even implement existing solutions. |
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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago
North West |
"I heard this exchange in part and then searched for the full interview in case it had been taken out of context. It really is quite astonishing what he said.
There could be an arguable mitigation that he and his Conservative Brexiters believe absolutely in bilateral free trade, but then that argument only highlights their naivety about how the world works.
Free trade is (as he said) great, but you cannot destroy your own food and export market by opening the doors wide when your partners won’t act with equivalence. A free market agreement is needed to facilitate free trade so that the respective internal markets can be protected.
We had that - it was called the customs Union and was enhanced with a British conservative inspired idea called the Single Market. A generation later, current Conservatives appear not to know their history.
Astonishing.was this really linked to price rise quote ? As I thought that was about imports... And leaving the door unlocked for a bit longer ...
He said that implementing the full customs checks and controls at border would be an act of self harm.
So we now have U.K. exporters and farmers facing checks and controls on the EU border, but the checks and controls on the U.K. border as negotiated will not be implemented until the end of 2023 at the earliest.indeed. So he is leaving the door open.
I wonder at what point does MFN kick in and we open the door to all.
It's crazy to think people were getting so annoyed the EU were not believing our solutions to NI would work, when we can't even implement existing solutions. "
Patrick Minford predicted that Brexit would be success, but at the cost of the U.K. manufacturing and farming sectors being “finished off.”.
Brexiters lapped up the idea of Brexit being a success but questioned why farming and manufacturing would suffer if we were going to be controlling our borders and adopting reciprocal customs controls.
Maybe the plan all along has been to finish off farming and manufacturing? |
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"I heard this exchange in part and then searched for the full interview in case it had been taken out of context. It really is quite astonishing what he said.
There could be an arguable mitigation that he and his Conservative Brexiters believe absolutely in bilateral free trade, but then that argument only highlights their naivety about how the world works.
Free trade is (as he said) great, but you cannot destroy your own food and export market by opening the doors wide when your partners won’t act with equivalence. A free market agreement is needed to facilitate free trade so that the respective internal markets can be protected.
We had that - it was called the customs Union and was enhanced with a British conservative inspired idea called the Single Market. A generation later, current Conservatives appear not to know their history.
Astonishing.was this really linked to price rise quote ? As I thought that was about imports... And leaving the door unlocked for a bit longer ...
He said that implementing the full customs checks and controls at border would be an act of self harm.
So we now have U.K. exporters and farmers facing checks and controls on the EU border, but the checks and controls on the U.K. border as negotiated will not be implemented until the end of 2023 at the earliest.indeed. So he is leaving the door open.
I wonder at what point does MFN kick in and we open the door to all.
It's crazy to think people were getting so annoyed the EU were not believing our solutions to NI would work, when we can't even implement existing solutions.
Patrick Minford predicted that Brexit would be success, but at the cost of the U.K. manufacturing and farming sectors being “finished off.”.
Brexiters lapped up the idea of Brexit being a success but questioned why farming and manufacturing would suffer if we were going to be controlling our borders and adopting reciprocal customs controls.
Maybe the plan all along has been to finish off farming and manufacturing?"
No that was never part of the plan. It simply wasn't considered important enough to factor in. |
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"I heard this exchange in part and then searched for the full interview in case it had been taken out of context. It really is quite astonishing what he said.
There could be an arguable mitigation that he and his Conservative Brexiters believe absolutely in bilateral free trade, but then that argument only highlights their naivety about how the world works.
Free trade is (as he said) great, but you cannot destroy your own food and export market by opening the doors wide when your partners won’t act with equivalence. A free market agreement is needed to facilitate free trade so that the respective internal markets can be protected.
We had that - it was called the customs Union and was enhanced with a British conservative inspired idea called the Single Market. A generation later, current Conservatives appear not to know their history.
Astonishing.was this really linked to price rise quote ? As I thought that was about imports... And leaving the door unlocked for a bit longer ...
He said that implementing the full customs checks and controls at border would be an act of self harm.
So we now have U.K. exporters and farmers facing checks and controls on the EU border, but the checks and controls on the U.K. border as negotiated will not be implemented until the end of 2023 at the earliest.indeed. So he is leaving the door open.
I wonder at what point does MFN kick in and we open the door to all.
It's crazy to think people were getting so annoyed the EU were not believing our solutions to NI would work, when we can't even implement existing solutions.
Patrick Minford predicted that Brexit would be success, but at the cost of the U.K. manufacturing and farming sectors being “finished off.”.
Brexiters lapped up the idea of Brexit being a success but questioned why farming and manufacturing would suffer if we were going to be controlling our borders and adopting reciprocal customs controls.
Maybe the plan all along has been to finish off farming and manufacturing?"
I cant speak for farming but as a British manufacturer I can assure you we are doing extremely well, both sales and orders are almost 8% up on our figures for the same 1st quarter period 12 months ago, so we are far from being finished, we have seen nothing but growth in the last few years and our future is looking very good. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
If I recall correctly minford with suggesting we got rid of or Taurus and just imported things as cheaply as possible. I may have misremember this somewhat. Also minford is generally not a widely used source when it comes to economics. He is only brought up in brexit discussions because his was the only model that provided brexit benefits. |
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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago
North West |
"I heard this exchange in part and then searched for the full interview in case it had been taken out of context. It really is quite astonishing what he said.
There could be an arguable mitigation that he and his Conservative Brexiters believe absolutely in bilateral free trade, but then that argument only highlights their naivety about how the world works.
Free trade is (as he said) great, but you cannot destroy your own food and export market by opening the doors wide when your partners won’t act with equivalence. A free market agreement is needed to facilitate free trade so that the respective internal markets can be protected.
We had that - it was called the customs Union and was enhanced with a British conservative inspired idea called the Single Market. A generation later, current Conservatives appear not to know their history.
Astonishing.was this really linked to price rise quote ? As I thought that was about imports... And leaving the door unlocked for a bit longer ...
He said that implementing the full customs checks and controls at border would be an act of self harm.
So we now have U.K. exporters and farmers facing checks and controls on the EU border, but the checks and controls on the U.K. border as negotiated will not be implemented until the end of 2023 at the earliest.indeed. So he is leaving the door open.
I wonder at what point does MFN kick in and we open the door to all.
It's crazy to think people were getting so annoyed the EU were not believing our solutions to NI would work, when we can't even implement existing solutions.
Patrick Minford predicted that Brexit would be success, but at the cost of the U.K. manufacturing and farming sectors being “finished off.”.
Brexiters lapped up the idea of Brexit being a success but questioned why farming and manufacturing would suffer if we were going to be controlling our borders and adopting reciprocal customs controls.
Maybe the plan all along has been to finish off farming and manufacturing?
I cant speak for farming but as a British manufacturer I can assure you we are doing extremely well, both sales and orders are almost 8% up on our figures for the same 1st quarter period 12 months ago, so we are far from being finished, we have seen nothing but growth in the last few years and our future is looking very good."
If I was a British manufacturer / exporter, I might feel somewhat peeved that I have to jump through hoops to export into the EU whereas my EU competitors have no such burdens.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I heard this exchange in part and then searched for the full interview in case it had been taken out of context. It really is quite astonishing what he said.
There could be an arguable mitigation that he and his Conservative Brexiters believe absolutely in bilateral free trade, but then that argument only highlights their naivety about how the world works.
Free trade is (as he said) great, but you cannot destroy your own food and export market by opening the doors wide when your partners won’t act with equivalence. A free market agreement is needed to facilitate free trade so that the respective internal markets can be protected.
We had that - it was called the customs Union and was enhanced with a British conservative inspired idea called the Single Market. A generation later, current Conservatives appear not to know their history.
Astonishing.was this really linked to price rise quote ? As I thought that was about imports... And leaving the door unlocked for a bit longer ...
He said that implementing the full customs checks and controls at border would be an act of self harm.
So we now have U.K. exporters and farmers facing checks and controls on the EU border, but the checks and controls on the U.K. border as negotiated will not be implemented until the end of 2023 at the earliest.indeed. So he is leaving the door open.
I wonder at what point does MFN kick in and we open the door to all.
It's crazy to think people were getting so annoyed the EU were not believing our solutions to NI would work, when we can't even implement existing solutions.
Patrick Minford predicted that Brexit would be success, but at the cost of the U.K. manufacturing and farming sectors being “finished off.”.
Brexiters lapped up the idea of Brexit being a success but questioned why farming and manufacturing would suffer if we were going to be controlling our borders and adopting reciprocal customs controls.
Maybe the plan all along has been to finish off farming and manufacturing?
I cant speak for farming but as a British manufacturer I can assure you we are doing extremely well, both sales and orders are almost 8% up on our figures for the same 1st quarter period 12 months ago, so we are far from being finished, we have seen nothing but growth in the last few years and our future is looking very good.
If I was a British manufacturer / exporter, I might feel somewhat peeved that I have to jump through hoops to export into the EU whereas my EU competitors have no such burdens.
"
Would you simply not relocate the manufacturing into the EU if the hoops are that hard to jump through? Ireland is very business friendly, English speaking and have a well educated workforce. |
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"I heard this exchange in part and then searched for the full interview in case it had been taken out of context. It really is quite astonishing what he said.
There could be an arguable mitigation that he and his Conservative Brexiters believe absolutely in bilateral free trade, but then that argument only highlights their naivety about how the world works.
Free trade is (as he said) great, but you cannot destroy your own food and export market by opening the doors wide when your partners won’t act with equivalence. A free market agreement is needed to facilitate free trade so that the respective internal markets can be protected.
We had that - it was called the customs Union and was enhanced with a British conservative inspired idea called the Single Market. A generation later, current Conservatives appear not to know their history.
Astonishing.was this really linked to price rise quote ? As I thought that was about imports... And leaving the door unlocked for a bit longer ...
He said that implementing the full customs checks and controls at border would be an act of self harm.
So we now have U.K. exporters and farmers facing checks and controls on the EU border, but the checks and controls on the U.K. border as negotiated will not be implemented until the end of 2023 at the earliest.indeed. So he is leaving the door open.
I wonder at what point does MFN kick in and we open the door to all.
It's crazy to think people were getting so annoyed the EU were not believing our solutions to NI would work, when we can't even implement existing solutions.
Patrick Minford predicted that Brexit would be success, but at the cost of the U.K. manufacturing and farming sectors being “finished off.”.
Brexiters lapped up the idea of Brexit being a success but questioned why farming and manufacturing would suffer if we were going to be controlling our borders and adopting reciprocal customs controls.
Maybe the plan all along has been to finish off farming and manufacturing?
I cant speak for farming but as a British manufacturer I can assure you we are doing extremely well, both sales and orders are almost 8% up on our figures for the same 1st quarter period 12 months ago, so we are far from being finished, we have seen nothing but growth in the last few years and our future is looking very good."
Would be interested to know if this down to adapting well to the new requirements and/or if you have developed in to new markets to compensate the changes in trading with the EU? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I heard this exchange in part and then searched for the full interview in case it had been taken out of context. It really is quite astonishing what he said.
There could be an arguable mitigation that he and his Conservative Brexiters believe absolutely in bilateral free trade, but then that argument only highlights their naivety about how the world works.
Free trade is (as he said) great, but you cannot destroy your own food and export market by opening the doors wide when your partners won’t act with equivalence. A free market agreement is needed to facilitate free trade so that the respective internal markets can be protected.
We had that - it was called the customs Union and was enhanced with a British conservative inspired idea called the Single Market. A generation later, current Conservatives appear not to know their history.
Astonishing.was this really linked to price rise quote ? As I thought that was about imports... And leaving the door unlocked for a bit longer ...
He said that implementing the full customs checks and controls at border would be an act of self harm.
So we now have U.K. exporters and farmers facing checks and controls on the EU border, but the checks and controls on the U.K. border as negotiated will not be implemented until the end of 2023 at the earliest.indeed. So he is leaving the door open.
I wonder at what point does MFN kick in and we open the door to all.
It's crazy to think people were getting so annoyed the EU were not believing our solutions to NI would work, when we can't even implement existing solutions.
Patrick Minford predicted that Brexit would be success, but at the cost of the U.K. manufacturing and farming sectors being “finished off.”.
Brexiters lapped up the idea of Brexit being a success but questioned why farming and manufacturing would suffer if we were going to be controlling our borders and adopting reciprocal customs controls.
Maybe the plan all along has been to finish off farming and manufacturing?
I cant speak for farming but as a British manufacturer I can assure you we are doing extremely well, both sales and orders are almost 8% up on our figures for the same 1st quarter period 12 months ago, so we are far from being finished, we have seen nothing but growth in the last few years and our future is looking very good.
If I was a British manufacturer / exporter, I might feel somewhat peeved that I have to jump through hoops to export into the EU whereas my EU competitors have no such burdens.
Would you simply not relocate the manufacturing into the EU if the hoops are that hard to jump through? Ireland is very business friendly, English speaking and have a well educated workforce. "
I imagine that costs too. Either which way, our businesses (currently) have additional costs that EU business don't. Odd thing to vote for imo. |
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"I heard this exchange in part and then searched for the full interview in case it had been taken out of context. It really is quite astonishing what he said.
There could be an arguable mitigation that he and his Conservative Brexiters believe absolutely in bilateral free trade, but then that argument only highlights their naivety about how the world works.
Free trade is (as he said) great, but you cannot destroy your own food and export market by opening the doors wide when your partners won’t act with equivalence. A free market agreement is needed to facilitate free trade so that the respective internal markets can be protected.
We had that - it was called the customs Union and was enhanced with a British conservative inspired idea called the Single Market. A generation later, current Conservatives appear not to know their history.
Astonishing.was this really linked to price rise quote ? As I thought that was about imports... And leaving the door unlocked for a bit longer ...
He said that implementing the full customs checks and controls at border would be an act of self harm.
So we now have U.K. exporters and farmers facing checks and controls on the EU border, but the checks and controls on the U.K. border as negotiated will not be implemented until the end of 2023 at the earliest.indeed. So he is leaving the door open.
I wonder at what point does MFN kick in and we open the door to all.
It's crazy to think people were getting so annoyed the EU were not believing our solutions to NI would work, when we can't even implement existing solutions.
Patrick Minford predicted that Brexit would be success, but at the cost of the U.K. manufacturing and farming sectors being “finished off.”.
Brexiters lapped up the idea of Brexit being a success but questioned why farming and manufacturing would suffer if we were going to be controlling our borders and adopting reciprocal customs controls.
Maybe the plan all along has been to finish off farming and manufacturing?"
farming and manufacturing, including car, bus & truck building was doing ok up to us joining the EEC back in 1973, seems it has all gone tits up since we joined the EU, |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I heard this exchange in part and then searched for the full interview in case it had been taken out of context. It really is quite astonishing what he said.
There could be an arguable mitigation that he and his Conservative Brexiters believe absolutely in bilateral free trade, but then that argument only highlights their naivety about how the world works.
Free trade is (as he said) great, but you cannot destroy your own food and export market by opening the doors wide when your partners won’t act with equivalence. A free market agreement is needed to facilitate free trade so that the respective internal markets can be protected.
We had that - it was called the customs Union and was enhanced with a British conservative inspired idea called the Single Market. A generation later, current Conservatives appear not to know their history.
Astonishing.was this really linked to price rise quote ? As I thought that was about imports... And leaving the door unlocked for a bit longer ...
He said that implementing the full customs checks and controls at border would be an act of self harm.
So we now have U.K. exporters and farmers facing checks and controls on the EU border, but the checks and controls on the U.K. border as negotiated will not be implemented until the end of 2023 at the earliest.indeed. So he is leaving the door open.
I wonder at what point does MFN kick in and we open the door to all.
It's crazy to think people were getting so annoyed the EU were not believing our solutions to NI would work, when we can't even implement existing solutions.
Patrick Minford predicted that Brexit would be success, but at the cost of the U.K. manufacturing and farming sectors being “finished off.”.
Brexiters lapped up the idea of Brexit being a success but questioned why farming and manufacturing would suffer if we were going to be controlling our borders and adopting reciprocal customs controls.
Maybe the plan all along has been to finish off farming and manufacturing?
farming and manufacturing, including car, bus & truck building was doing ok up to us joining the EEC back in 1973, seems it has all gone tits up since we joined the EU,"
That was almost 50 years ago!
Britain was leading manufacturing in the 1800's but it seems to have gone downhill since joining the EU.
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By *ackal1Couple
over a year ago
Manchester |
"I heard this exchange in part and then searched for the full interview in case it had been taken out of context. It really is quite astonishing what he said.
There could be an arguable mitigation that he and his Conservative Brexiters believe absolutely in bilateral free trade, but then that argument only highlights their naivety about how the world works.
Free trade is (as he said) great, but you cannot destroy your own food and export market by opening the doors wide when your partners won’t act with equivalence. A free market agreement is needed to facilitate free trade so that the respective internal markets can be protected.
We had that - it was called the customs Union and was enhanced with a British conservative inspired idea called the Single Market. A generation later, current Conservatives appear not to know their history.
Astonishing.was this really linked to price rise quote ? As I thought that was about imports... And leaving the door unlocked for a bit longer ...
He said that implementing the full customs checks and controls at border would be an act of self harm.
So we now have U.K. exporters and farmers facing checks and controls on the EU border, but the checks and controls on the U.K. border as negotiated will not be implemented until the end of 2023 at the earliest.indeed. So he is leaving the door open.
I wonder at what point does MFN kick in and we open the door to all.
It's crazy to think people were getting so annoyed the EU were not believing our solutions to NI would work, when we can't even implement existing solutions.
Patrick Minford predicted that Brexit would be success, but at the cost of the U.K. manufacturing and farming sectors being “finished off.”.
Brexiters lapped up the idea of Brexit being a success but questioned why farming and manufacturing would suffer if we were going to be controlling our borders and adopting reciprocal customs controls.
Maybe the plan all along has been to finish off farming and manufacturing?
farming and manufacturing, including car, bus & truck building was doing ok up to us joining the EEC back in 1973, seems it has all gone tits up since we joined the EU,"
So Nissan Honda and Toyota didn’t come here on the back of membership ??
BMW saved the mini and Land Rover ( sold since) as customs union made transit cheaper so they could interchange the business.
Think you will find most bus chassis are imported as the U.K. was not so great at manufacturing.
As for trucks DAF saved Leyland as the trucks were not fit for the modern markets . I know I had the misfortune to own one. We got rid sharpish.
We now subsidise Nisan and Ford with hundred of millions to stop them leaving.
Our economy was the sick man of Europe before we joined thenEEC which was the main reason for Thatcher pushing so hard. It developed and became successful after joining. We didn’t need IMF bailouts anymore.
Farmers were all relatively poor before joining the EU. Subsidies made them financially secure and production rates dramatically improved as they modernised.
Rose coloured spectacles of a past that was actually shit in reality .
Winning now though eh!!
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"An act of self harm would be staying in a union where year on year our exports were falling and not going looking for better deals."
you mean the EU made a falling percentage of exports. Rather than a fall in £ terms, right ?
Have we found any better deals? I can think of a few insignificant ones.
India will be interesting .... |
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it's quite a thing for JRM to be admitting that he sold leavers a pup. doubtless the brextremists will still attempt to defend the brexit failure and the huge hit the country's economy is taking going forward though. |
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"An act of self harm would be staying in a union where year on year our exports were falling and not going looking for better deals.you mean the EU made a falling percentage of exports. Rather than a fall in £ terms, right ?
Have we found any better deals? I can think of a few insignificant ones.
India will be interesting ...."
Dont happen overnight mate some eu deals take over 20 years but expect the uk to be a bit quicker. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"An act of self harm would be staying in a union where year on year our exports were falling and not going looking for better deals.you mean the EU made a falling percentage of exports. Rather than a fall in £ terms, right ?
Have we found any better deals? I can think of a few insignificant ones.
India will be interesting ....Dont happen overnight mate some eu deals take over 20 years but expect the uk to be a bit quicker. "
According to Mogg, it will take around 50 years to see a benifit but hey ho..
Sovereignty and all that... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"An act of self harm would be staying in a union where year on year our exports were falling and not going looking for better deals.you mean the EU made a falling percentage of exports. Rather than a fall in £ terms, right ?
Have we found any better deals? I can think of a few insignificant ones.
India will be interesting ....Dont happen overnight mate some eu deals take over 20 years but expect the uk to be a bit quicker. "
which ones are the key ones for you?
And can you clarify the falling export point... It's useful to know we agree on the facts ! |
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"I heard this exchange in part and then searched for the full interview in case it had been taken out of context. It really is quite astonishing what he said.
There could be an arguable mitigation that he and his Conservative Brexiters believe absolutely in bilateral free trade, but then that argument only highlights their naivety about how the world works.
Free trade is (as he said) great, but you cannot destroy your own food and export market by opening the doors wide when your partners won’t act with equivalence. A free market agreement is needed to facilitate free trade so that the respective internal markets can be protected.
We had that - it was called the customs Union and was enhanced with a British conservative inspired idea called the Single Market. A generation later, current Conservatives appear not to know their history.
Astonishing.was this really linked to price rise quote ? As I thought that was about imports... And leaving the door unlocked for a bit longer ...
He said that implementing the full customs checks and controls at border would be an act of self harm.
So we now have U.K. exporters and farmers facing checks and controls on the EU border, but the checks and controls on the U.K. border as negotiated will not be implemented until the end of 2023 at the earliest.indeed. So he is leaving the door open.
I wonder at what point does MFN kick in and we open the door to all.
It's crazy to think people were getting so annoyed the EU were not believing our solutions to NI would work, when we can't even implement existing solutions.
Patrick Minford predicted that Brexit would be success, but at the cost of the U.K. manufacturing and farming sectors being “finished off.”.
Brexiters lapped up the idea of Brexit being a success but questioned why farming and manufacturing would suffer if we were going to be controlling our borders and adopting reciprocal customs controls.
Maybe the plan all along has been to finish off farming and manufacturing?
I cant speak for farming but as a British manufacturer I can assure you we are doing extremely well, both sales and orders are almost 8% up on our figures for the same 1st quarter period 12 months ago, so we are far from being finished, we have seen nothing but growth in the last few years and our future is looking very good.
Would be interested to know if this down to adapting well to the new requirements and/or if you have developed in to new markets to compensate the changes in trading with the EU?"
A mixture of both to be honest, we made the adjustments to our business to cope with the changes quite early on although the EU is not our biggest market either in fairness and we have always exported globally so I cant say that the changes were a big thing for us personally. We have also actively been putting sales resources into growing economies worldwide for some time now to capitalise in the places where there is high growth, Africa and Asia being 2 very good examples of this. |
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"I heard this exchange in part and then searched for the full interview in case it had been taken out of context. It really is quite astonishing what he said.
There could be an arguable mitigation that he and his Conservative Brexiters believe absolutely in bilateral free trade, but then that argument only highlights their naivety about how the world works.
Free trade is (as he said) great, but you cannot destroy your own food and export market by opening the doors wide when your partners won’t act with equivalence. A free market agreement is needed to facilitate free trade so that the respective internal markets can be protected.
We had that - it was called the customs Union and was enhanced with a British conservative inspired idea called the Single Market. A generation later, current Conservatives appear not to know their history.
Astonishing.was this really linked to price rise quote ? As I thought that was about imports... And leaving the door unlocked for a bit longer ...
He said that implementing the full customs checks and controls at border would be an act of self harm.
So we now have U.K. exporters and farmers facing checks and controls on the EU border, but the checks and controls on the U.K. border as negotiated will not be implemented until the end of 2023 at the earliest.indeed. So he is leaving the door open.
I wonder at what point does MFN kick in and we open the door to all.
It's crazy to think people were getting so annoyed the EU were not believing our solutions to NI would work, when we can't even implement existing solutions.
Patrick Minford predicted that Brexit would be success, but at the cost of the U.K. manufacturing and farming sectors being “finished off.”.
Brexiters lapped up the idea of Brexit being a success but questioned why farming and manufacturing would suffer if we were going to be controlling our borders and adopting reciprocal customs controls.
Maybe the plan all along has been to finish off farming and manufacturing?
I cant speak for farming but as a British manufacturer I can assure you we are doing extremely well, both sales and orders are almost 8% up on our figures for the same 1st quarter period 12 months ago, so we are far from being finished, we have seen nothing but growth in the last few years and our future is looking very good.
If I was a British manufacturer / exporter, I might feel somewhat peeved that I have to jump through hoops to export into the EU whereas my EU competitors have no such burdens.
"
We don't really have much competition in Europe for our products in truth and as I said in my other post for us personally we have not had major hoops to jump through and things are not really much different for us, as a manufacturer I can assure you the increase in cost and lead times in raw materials and energy costs are a far bigger worry to us. |
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By *ebbie69Couple
over a year ago
milton keynes |
What I find surprising is that the checks or controls mentioned is only implemented on products going from the UK to the EU and the checks or controls going the other way are postponed yet again. Hopefully I have understood that correctly. So as I think others have eluded to this gives EU exporters an advantage and therefore can increase their exports into the UK as no checks are yet implemented. However the ONS results for last quarter of 21 show a drop in EU exports to the UK of -3.2%. For the same period the UK exports into the EU with all the checks required show an increase of + 3.1%. What I find odd is that in theory those figures should be the other way around. Maybe this year it will be clearer |
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By *ackal1Couple
over a year ago
Manchester |
"An act of self harm would be staying in a union where year on year our exports were falling and not going looking for better deals."
So after nearly six years of planning have we found any better deals yet?
The exports to the EU were falling but not the fault of the EU as the economy in the EU grew so who’s to blame for that? Who’ve been in charge here for that decade ?
I hope we do fair better as I don’t want my country to suffer but with the lies told by the leader who’s own self interest drove his lies about Brexit benefits I’m reluctant to believe anything regarding benefits now.
£350 m on the bus was the least of the lies sadly.
Even Frost is blaming everyone but himself for the deal. He said it’s good to sign if it wasn’t why did he agree to it? Similarly Mogg now says self harm is a fact due to Brexit rules. He said before that seamless trade and nothing but benefits Where exactly?
the government have actually claimed officially blue passports and pint marks as a main benefit . Genuinely true now if that isn’t grasping at straws ! |
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By *ackal1Couple
over a year ago
Manchester |
"What I find surprising is that the checks or controls mentioned is only implemented on products going from the UK to the EU and the checks or controls going the other way are postponed yet again. Hopefully I have understood that correctly. So as I think others have eluded to this gives EU exporters an advantage and therefore can increase their exports into the UK as no checks are yet implemented. However the ONS results for last quarter of 21 show a drop in EU exports to the UK of -3.2%. For the same period the UK exports into the EU with all the checks required show an increase of + 3.1%. What I find odd is that in theory those figures should be the other way around. Maybe this year it will be clearer"
Yes this is a fascinating.
Maybe look at total trade to see that balance out. It’s more expensive to import so as we are smaller part of the EU’s trade (max 7%) they don’t want the extra costs as their market is bigger and cheaper to trade with along with we buy less due to increased costs. We however rely on the EU for 45% of our trade so have to keep exporting although we make less money due to increased costs. It’s a case of we need the volume whereas they aren’t so reliant on our custom so can chose not to deliver to the U.K. which some have actually chosen. I’m not saying I’m right for the whole reason just an idea as it’s a percentage game.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"What I find surprising is that the checks or controls mentioned is only implemented on products going from the UK to the EU and the checks or controls going the other way are postponed yet again. Hopefully I have understood that correctly. So as I think others have eluded to this gives EU exporters an advantage and therefore can increase their exports into the UK as no checks are yet implemented. However the ONS results for last quarter of 21 show a drop in EU exports to the UK of -3.2%. For the same period the UK exports into the EU with all the checks required show an increase of + 3.1%. What I find odd is that in theory those figures should be the other way around. Maybe this year it will be clearer"
we are in an odd period. And irrc there's some issues with methodology and measuring.
I'd also need to see some long term data... Q on q probably has a lot of noise. |
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By *ebbie69Couple
over a year ago
milton keynes |
"What I find surprising is that the checks or controls mentioned is only implemented on products going from the UK to the EU and the checks or controls going the other way are postponed yet again. Hopefully I have understood that correctly. So as I think others have eluded to this gives EU exporters an advantage and therefore can increase their exports into the UK as no checks are yet implemented. However the ONS results for last quarter of 21 show a drop in EU exports to the UK of -3.2%. For the same period the UK exports into the EU with all the checks required show an increase of + 3.1%. What I find odd is that in theory those figures should be the other way around. Maybe this year it will be clearer
Yes this is a fascinating.
Maybe look at total trade to see that balance out. It’s more expensive to import so as we are smaller part of the EU’s trade (max 7%) they don’t want the extra costs as their market is bigger and cheaper to trade with along with we buy less due to increased costs. We however rely on the EU for 45% of our trade so have to keep exporting although we make less money due to increased costs. It’s a case of we need the volume whereas they aren’t so reliant on our custom so can chose not to deliver to the U.K. which some have actually chosen. I’m not saying I’m right for the whole reason just an idea as it’s a percentage game.
"
Yes fascinating and a touch confusing. I used trade figures with the EU as I read the comments about how the EU companies have the advantage of not having their products checked and this is to the detriment of UK companies meaning EU exports to the UK should increase. To me this is a perfectly logical assumption and if I was a gambling person I would have opted for that outcome. The results though have gone in the opposite direction which is the confusing bit. To be clear I was not making any comment on the effects of this on the EU in any way. For a wider picture, yes you are correct in that we as a country are buying as much as ever in total. For wider picture of exports the figures are a bit more recent which show a +8.2% increase for 12 months to Feb 22. Now I must apologise for an error in my post. The figures are correct but I said it was the results for the last quarter of 21. The results are for all of 21 as a whole. |
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By *ebbie69Couple
over a year ago
milton keynes |
"What I find surprising is that the checks or controls mentioned is only implemented on products going from the UK to the EU and the checks or controls going the other way are postponed yet again. Hopefully I have understood that correctly. So as I think others have eluded to this gives EU exporters an advantage and therefore can increase their exports into the UK as no checks are yet implemented. However the ONS results for last quarter of 21 show a drop in EU exports to the UK of -3.2%. For the same period the UK exports into the EU with all the checks required show an increase of + 3.1%. What I find odd is that in theory those figures should be the other way around. Maybe this year it will be clearer
we are in an odd period. And irrc there's some issues with methodology and measuring.
I'd also need to see some long term data... Q on q probably has a lot of noise. "
An odd period is probably a reasonable description. As I just responded to Jackel I made a mistake with the time frame. The figures are correct but I wrongly said it was for the last quarter of 21. The figures are in fact for all of 21 so all of the first year since the rules changed. My apologies for adding to the confusion |
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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago
North West |
"What I find surprising is that the checks or controls mentioned is only implemented on products going from the UK to the EU and the checks or controls going the other way are postponed yet again. Hopefully I have understood that correctly. So as I think others have eluded to this gives EU exporters an advantage and therefore can increase their exports into the UK as no checks are yet implemented. However the ONS results for last quarter of 21 show a drop in EU exports to the UK of -3.2%. For the same period the UK exports into the EU with all the checks required show an increase of + 3.1%. What I find odd is that in theory those figures should be the other way around. Maybe this year it will be clearer"
Not sure what figures you are comparing there? Are you comparing like for like?
2020 was the worst year imaginable so it is probable that there would be some improvement in 2021.
2021 was a stable year and so needs to compared to the last previous stable year. I found this on a quick search for ONS statistics - EU trade.
“UK exports of goods to the EU have fallen by £20bn compared with the last period of stable trade with Europe, according to official figures marking the first full year since Brexit.
Numbers released on Friday by the Office for National Statistics (ONS) showed that the combined impact of the pandemic and Britain’s exit from the single market caused a 12% fall in exports between January and December last year compared with 2018.” |
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By *ebbie69Couple
over a year ago
milton keynes |
"What I find surprising is that the checks or controls mentioned is only implemented on products going from the UK to the EU and the checks or controls going the other way are postponed yet again. Hopefully I have understood that correctly. So as I think others have eluded to this gives EU exporters an advantage and therefore can increase their exports into the UK as no checks are yet implemented. However the ONS results for last quarter of 21 show a drop in EU exports to the UK of -3.2%. For the same period the UK exports into the EU with all the checks required show an increase of + 3.1%. What I find odd is that in theory those figures should be the other way around. Maybe this year it will be clearer
Not sure what figures you are comparing there? Are you comparing like for like?
2020 was the worst year imaginable so it is probable that there would be some improvement in 2021.
2021 was a stable year and so needs to compared to the last previous stable year. I found this on a quick search for ONS statistics - EU trade.
“UK exports of goods to the EU have fallen by £20bn compared with the last period of stable trade with Europe, according to official figures marking the first full year since Brexit.
Numbers released on Friday by the Office for National Statistics (ONS) showed that the combined impact of the pandemic and Britain’s exit from the single market caused a 12% fall in exports between January and December last year compared with 2018.”"
Hi, the figures quoted are the most recent available from the ONS. The reason for my post was born out of my curiosity concerning what was said concerning how the postponement of checks of products coming from the EU into the UK means more will be imported and less being exported to the EU. As I mentioned, to me this sounds perfectly logical. My confusion is that now we have the actual results the opposite is true. So basically my figures are purely import and export figures for 2021 from and to the EU. I make no reference to previous years as it is not relevant in this instance. In summary the theory on this thread (to which I agree) is that imports from the EU will Increase due to no checks. However the results show they declined -3.2%. At the same time exports into the EU which are subject to checks will decrease. However the results show that they increased +3.1%. Hopefully I have explained it was purely an import, export comparison to try and look into this subject and not a comparison to previous years. One last thing, I am not saying the results are good or bad or anything in between. They are simply the results that I would not have expected. |
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