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Has it sunk or not? Moskva
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By *rFunBoy OP Man
over a year ago
Longridge |
Russia's flagship Black Sea missile cruiser has been "seriously damaged" and its crew forced to evacuate, Russian state media says.
The defence ministry said ammunition on the Moskva exploded in an unexplained fire. Ukrainians, Romanians say they hit it with missles, but is that 186-metre vessel was still afloat.
"Essentially, you'd think with a 3 tiered defense, it would be very difficult to hit".
Seems, just like his phony army, phony tanks, phony aircraft and his phony helicopters that his navy ain't what they told him either.
Oh Dear!! Didn't they once try to copy Concorde? Oh yes, Concordski. Maybe his Nukes will fizzle like Standard Fireworks too.
Where is it? Glug glug
Think Putin denying it's gone down to save face. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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With all the propaganda flying around it might already be sunk for all anyone knows. We'll all have to wait until a satellite operator releases uncensored images of its last location. |
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By *rFunBoy OP Man
over a year ago
Longridge |
"The Moskva is fitted with a good anti-missle system, but if the Russians weren't expecting an attack, then there is no guarantee that it would work effectively. "
Surely in a state of war, readiness is key? |
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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago
Grantham |
You would have thought, but most of the Russian armed forces have been shown to be rathee inept.
Probably thought that a couple of border guards shaking their fist at them, was their biggest threat. Bsd mistake! |
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Facts:
Moskva victim of explosions and fire. Damage sufficiently bad that it has sunk.
Possibilities:
Missile attack by Ukraine. Great!
Accidental fire (not so likely)
Sabotage from within crew.
Either way it's not good for Putin. |
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"Facts:
Moskva victim of explosions and fire. Damage sufficiently bad that it has sunk.
Possibilities:
Missile attack by Ukraine. Great!
Accidental fire (not so likely)
Sabotage from within crew.
Either way it's not good for Putin."
Let’s put it this way… if your reaction to an “accident” on one ship is to try and tow that one back (reasonable) but move all the other’s further away from shore… that doesn’t scream accident, that screams trying to get your navy out of possible missile range!
Besides… if you are Russia why would you claim the reason was ineptitude in your own state press to the world! Sometimes even the “okay they got one!” Line is better reasoning |
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By *rFunBoy OP Man
over a year ago
Longridge |
One thing still puzzles..
Did they really get every single crew member off? As I in chaos, you'd expect at least some casualties.
That could be Russia BS not allowing Ukraine any credit, however, did the captain take a bribe?..
"Sink the ship for cash", just like the guys handing over tanks.
Either 100s of sailors are dead or it seems very cleanly executed.
Then again, I do love the idea that while the Ukrainians were distracting the ships crew buzzing it with a drone, they slammed two missles into to it..
Did Turkey take the sailors off as part of the deal. Hunt for Red October is one of my favourites.
"What's that, dunno, a decoy"... boom, boom
Glug glug |
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By *amish SMan
over a year ago
Eastleigh |
"The Moskva is fitted with a good anti-missle system, but if the Russians weren't expecting an attack, then there is no guarantee that it would work effectively. "
Not expecting an attack from the missile factory they left in place, astounding Russian military leadership. In a war footing, they should have been ready for an attack. One drone should not have hindered their long range air picture, true incompetence by the crew, and other platforms. Where were the pickets to protect the flagship. More than one Russian cock up it seems. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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It all depends.
There is nothing wrong with the Russian systems per say,but..
the systems on the slava class that this ship was were originally fitted to the older Kara class circa late 70s, granted it did get a long drawn out refurbishment circa 1990 to 1998.
The two primary fire control radars the main being limited to 180 fwd facing arc and the front which provided 360 battle space coverage but less capable vrs smaller sea skimming targets.
A lot of factors at play,
Crew competence and training being huge here.
Specifically were they competent on the systems they operated in fighting the ship? Were they regularly doing damager control training to mitigate any potential battle damage?
Lots of rumours but low on facts currently, it's claimed the Ukrainians used drones to distract the ship to unmask its primary fire control and leave it vulnerable to a strike from the opposite direction,it is also alleged the ship was sailing predictable patrol patterns, if true suggests a degree of complacency/ arrogance on the part of the vessels commander.
In regard to the Russian claims of a fire,Fires on Russian ships is not uncommen one of their new ships caught fire during construction. 2018 Marshal Shaposhnikov caught fire in the yard as well and I can't remember which but I'm pretty sure one of the old flat tops caught fire not that long ago and is regularly tailed by a tug due to breakdowns.
It could be a combination of all of the above , 1 or none.
Truth will come out at some point.
But one thing this conflict has shown is the west has seriously over estimated the current force strength, capability and command and control of the Russian federation. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I don’t think it’s sunk it is disabled though  
Oh, it definitely has  )) ... Plenty of legit photos of Moskva after it was struck by Ukrainian Neptun anti-ship missiles. |
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Well it seems that the ship has most certainly sunk. But what of the crew?
Many sources are saying hundreds have died, but the Russians are saying that the crew were transferred, then show a video of the alleged crew on parade.
However one thing just doesn't fit.
If you look at the background on the video it shows mostly evergreen pine trees but there are also broad leaf trees in full bloom.
In April on the Crimea broad leaf trees would be only at bud burst stage and nowhere near full bloom.
Looks like they have shown an old video of the crew hoping that no-one would notice.
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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago
Grantham |
Worried families have been trying to contact their sons, and are met with no response.
It now appears that some of the crew were conscripts, who under Russian law, cannot be sent into combat zones. |
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