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Rishi - Tories gotta Tory 2
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By *ackal1 OP Couple
over a year ago
Manchester |
This seemed to create sone interesting debate so I thought why not another brick through the window.
A lot of people claiming they’ve earned everything they have without anyones help.
I’d like to see how they’ve done that without any other people being involved with the likes of guiding direction, education, introductions, or support. Self funded too I’m sure .. not! Self made is an easy term to bandy about but true self made, I for one call that total bullshit! Self driven and hard working and indeed totally deserving of success maybe, but totally self made nah not having it.
Tax should be paid in equal measure for rich and poor. Have a threshold for the very poor if you like. But after 50k you pay say 40% and everyone earning above that pays the same 40% . No offshore, no non doms. Just a straight rate for all regardless of income. By default if you earn more you keep more.
Dividends are enough of an incentive to do well in business so the selfish greed needs to be stopped.
As for the jealousy and it’s just spiteful envy comments, I built my own businesses and am wealthy by any standards in this country so I’m not jealous or envious. I’m practical and have a sense of fairness to give everyone an equal opportunity to reach the top of their potential. Our fake class driven society respects their betters due to status rather than ability. Sunak’s wife inherited her wealth she didn’t create it. Why should she be treated differently to any full tax paying worker?
A generally wealthier caring society increases wealth and opportunities for all. The theory of trickle down wealth has proven that it does not.
So I for one want a fairer tax regime to be implemented. Those if you who think the colonial Non Dom status is a good thing I believe are wrong and misguided. |
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"This seemed to create sone interesting debate so I thought why not another brick through the window.
A lot of people claiming they’ve earned everything they have without anyones help.
I’d like to see how they’ve done that without any other people being involved with the likes of guiding direction, education, introductions, or support. Self funded too I’m sure .. not! Self made is an easy term to bandy about but true self made, I for one call that total bullshit! Self driven and hard working and indeed totally deserving of success maybe, but totally self made nah not having it.
Tax should be paid in equal measure for rich and poor. Have a threshold for the very poor if you like. But after 50k you pay say 40% and everyone earning above that pays the same 40% . No offshore, no non doms. Just a straight rate for all regardless of income. By default if you earn more you keep more.
Dividends are enough of an incentive to do well in business so the selfish greed needs to be stopped.
As for the jealousy and it’s just spiteful envy comments, I built my own businesses and am wealthy by any standards in this country so I’m not jealous or envious. I’m practical and have a sense of fairness to give everyone an equal opportunity to reach the top of their potential. Our fake class driven society respects their betters due to status rather than ability. Sunak’s wife inherited her wealth she didn’t create it. Why should she be treated differently to any full tax paying worker?
A generally wealthier caring society increases wealth and opportunities for all. The theory of trickle down wealth has proven that it does not.
So I for one want a fairer tax regime to be implemented. Those if you who think the colonial Non Dom status is a good thing I believe are wrong and misguided. "
I would say that it does work, im considerably much better off due to my parents hard work and when i die my children will be too what are you going to do leave it all to a cats home and not your kids? |
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"This seemed to create sone interesting debate so I thought why not another brick through the window.
A lot of people claiming they’ve earned everything they have without anyones help.
I’d like to see how they’ve done that without any other people being involved with the likes of guiding direction, education, introductions, or support. Self funded too I’m sure .. not! Self made is an easy term to bandy about but true self made, I for one call that total bullshit! Self driven and hard working and indeed totally deserving of success maybe, but totally self made nah not having it.
Tax should be paid in equal measure for rich and poor. Have a threshold for the very poor if you like. But after 50k you pay say 40% and everyone earning above that pays the same 40% . No offshore, no non doms. Just a straight rate for all regardless of income. By default if you earn more you keep more.
Dividends are enough of an incentive to do well in business so the selfish greed needs to be stopped.
As for the jealousy and it’s just spiteful envy comments, I built my own businesses and am wealthy by any standards in this country so I’m not jealous or envious. I’m practical and have a sense of fairness to give everyone an equal opportunity to reach the top of their potential. Our fake class driven society respects their betters due to status rather than ability. Sunak’s wife inherited her wealth she didn’t create it. Why should she be treated differently to any full tax paying worker?
A generally wealthier caring society increases wealth and opportunities for all. The theory of trickle down wealth has proven that it does not.
So I for one want a fairer tax regime to be implemented. Those if you who think the colonial Non Dom status is a good thing I believe are wrong and misguided. "
. Why so you always quote percentages instead of the amount actually paid in hard cash. A percentage figure can be manipulated to distort things.
The do called rich already pay the majority of the tax in the UK. Surely you should be trying to identify who uses public services , the actual cost in money terms and how much tax in hard cash the relevant sections pay.
Intersting one newspaper did a survey and asked people about tax rates. When those who wanted higher rates were handed a form by the newspaper in order to pay additional tax to HMRC , every single person who was so much in favour of higher taxes declined to fill it in. None of them wanted to put their ideas into practice.
Do we even need to collect more taxes . ? How about better management of existing resources. It is always very easy to spennd other peoples money. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"This seemed to create sone interesting debate so I thought why not another brick through the window.
A lot of people claiming they’ve earned everything they have without anyones help.
I’d like to see how they’ve done that without any other people being involved with the likes of guiding direction, education, introductions, or support. Self funded too I’m sure .. not! Self made is an easy term to bandy about but true self made, I for one call that total bullshit! Self driven and hard working and indeed totally deserving of success maybe, but totally self made nah not having it.
Tax should be paid in equal measure for rich and poor. Have a threshold for the very poor if you like. But after 50k you pay say 40% and everyone earning above that pays the same 40% . No offshore, no non doms. Just a straight rate for all regardless of income. By default if you earn more you keep more.
Dividends are enough of an incentive to do well in business so the selfish greed needs to be stopped.
As for the jealousy and it’s just spiteful envy comments, I built my own businesses and am wealthy by any standards in this country so I’m not jealous or envious. I’m practical and have a sense of fairness to give everyone an equal opportunity to reach the top of their potential. Our fake class driven society respects their betters due to status rather than ability. Sunak’s wife inherited her wealth she didn’t create it. Why should she be treated differently to any full tax paying worker?
A generally wealthier caring society increases wealth and opportunities for all. The theory of trickle down wealth has proven that it does not.
So I for one want a fairer tax regime to be implemented. Those if you who think the colonial Non Dom status is a good thing I believe are wrong and misguided. . Why so you always quote percentages instead of the amount actually paid in hard cash. A percentage figure can be manipulated to distort things.
The do called rich already pay the majority of the tax in the UK. Surely you should be trying to identify who uses public services , the actual cost in money terms and how much tax in hard cash the relevant sections pay.
Intersting one newspaper did a survey and asked people about tax rates. When those who wanted higher rates were handed a form by the newspaper in order to pay additional tax to HMRC , every single person who was so much in favour of higher taxes declined to fill it in. None of them wanted to put their ideas into practice.
Do we even need to collect more taxes . ? How about better management of existing resources. It is always very easy to spennd other peoples money. "
I don't think that the incumbent goverment are shining examples of how to manage the taxpayers money... |
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By *eroy1000Man
over a year ago
milton keynes |
"This seemed to create sone interesting debate so I thought why not another brick through the window.
A lot of people claiming they’ve earned everything they have without anyones help.
I’d like to see how they’ve done that without any other people being involved with the likes of guiding direction, education, introductions, or support. Self funded too I’m sure .. not! Self made is an easy term to bandy about but true self made, I for one call that total bullshit! Self driven and hard working and indeed totally deserving of success maybe, but totally self made nah not having it.
Tax should be paid in equal measure for rich and poor. Have a threshold for the very poor if you like. But after 50k you pay say 40% and everyone earning above that pays the same 40% . No offshore, no non doms. Just a straight rate for all regardless of income. By default if you earn more you keep more.
Dividends are enough of an incentive to do well in business so the selfish greed needs to be stopped.
As for the jealousy and it’s just spiteful envy comments, I built my own businesses and am wealthy by any standards in this country so I’m not jealous or envious. I’m practical and have a sense of fairness to give everyone an equal opportunity to reach the top of their potential. Our fake class driven society respects their betters due to status rather than ability. Sunak’s wife inherited her wealth she didn’t create it. Why should she be treated differently to any full tax paying worker?
A generally wealthier caring society increases wealth and opportunities for all. The theory of trickle down wealth has proven that it does not.
So I for one want a fairer tax regime to be implemented. Those if you who think the colonial Non Dom status is a good thing I believe are wrong and misguided. "
I agree there are some pretty odd rules especially regarding tax. They all need looking at and scrapping or changing. The law this all kicked off about is over 200 years old and still remains. It's worrying that every government in that 200+ years has failed to change it. Its just as worrying that it does not seem likely to be changed in the near future regardless of who governs us |
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"This seemed to create sone interesting debate so I thought why not another brick through the window.
A lot of people claiming they’ve earned everything they have without anyones help.
I’d like to see how they’ve done that without any other people being involved with the likes of guiding direction, education, introductions, or support. Self funded too I’m sure .. not! Self made is an easy term to bandy about but true self made, I for one call that total bullshit! Self driven and hard working and indeed totally deserving of success maybe, but totally self made nah not having it.
Tax should be paid in equal measure for rich and poor. Have a threshold for the very poor if you like. But after 50k you pay say 40% and everyone earning above that pays the same 40% . No offshore, no non doms. Just a straight rate for all regardless of income. By default if you earn more you keep more.
Dividends are enough of an incentive to do well in business so the selfish greed needs to be stopped.
As for the jealousy and it’s just spiteful envy comments, I built my own businesses and am wealthy by any standards in this country so I’m not jealous or envious. I’m practical and have a sense of fairness to give everyone an equal opportunity to reach the top of their potential. Our fake class driven society respects their betters due to status rather than ability. Sunak’s wife inherited her wealth she didn’t create it. Why should she be treated differently to any full tax paying worker?
A generally wealthier caring society increases wealth and opportunities for all. The theory of trickle down wealth has proven that it does not.
So I for one want a fairer tax regime to be implemented. Those if you who think the colonial Non Dom status is a good thing I believe are wrong and misguided.
I agree there are some pretty odd rules especially regarding tax. They all need looking at and scrapping or changing. The law this all kicked off about is over 200 years old and still remains. It's worrying that every government in that 200+ years has failed to change it. Its just as worrying that it does not seem likely to be changed in the near future regardless of who governs us"
Exactly the point i made in the 1st thread only to be told i was deflecting.  |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
The Tax Payers Alliance and the Tufton St Mafia would be proud of some of the on message comments in both these threads. Just goes to show the value of their investment and how it can steer the narrative. |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"This seemed to create sone interesting debate so I thought why not another brick through the window.
A lot of people claiming they’ve earned everything they have without anyones help.
I’d like to see how they’ve done that without any other people being involved with the likes of guiding direction, education, introductions, or support. Self funded too I’m sure .. not! Self made is an easy term to bandy about but true self made, I for one call that total bullshit! Self driven and hard working and indeed totally deserving of success maybe, but totally self made nah not having it.
Tax should be paid in equal measure for rich and poor. Have a threshold for the very poor if you like. But after 50k you pay say 40% and everyone earning above that pays the same 40% . No offshore, no non doms. Just a straight rate for all regardless of income. By default if you earn more you keep more.
Dividends are enough of an incentive to do well in business so the selfish greed needs to be stopped.
As for the jealousy and it’s just spiteful envy comments, I built my own businesses and am wealthy by any standards in this country so I’m not jealous or envious. I’m practical and have a sense of fairness to give everyone an equal opportunity to reach the top of their potential. Our fake class driven society respects their betters due to status rather than ability. Sunak’s wife inherited her wealth she didn’t create it. Why should she be treated differently to any full tax paying worker?
A generally wealthier caring society increases wealth and opportunities for all. The theory of trickle down wealth has proven that it does not.
So I for one want a fairer tax regime to be implemented. Those if you who think the colonial Non Dom status is a good thing I believe are wrong and misguided. . Why so you always quote percentages instead of the amount actually paid in hard cash. A percentage figure can be manipulated to distort things.
The do called rich already pay the majority of the tax in the UK. Surely you should be trying to identify who uses public services , the actual cost in money terms and how much tax in hard cash the relevant sections pay.
Intersting one newspaper did a survey and asked people about tax rates. When those who wanted higher rates were handed a form by the newspaper in order to pay additional tax to HMRC , every single person who was so much in favour of higher taxes declined to fill it in. None of them wanted to put their ideas into practice.
Do we even need to collect more taxes . ? How about better management of existing resources. It is always very easy to spennd other peoples money. "
Why are you obsessed with how much someone uses public funded services?
Why are you obsessed with absolute numbers rather than equal proportionality?
Do you honestly think offshoring wealth or owning property via tax haven based companies to avoid IHT etc is right?
Have a quick flick through the handbook. I reckon there are a few emotive soundbites and paragraphs you can lift on page 247!!! |
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By *ebbie69Couple
over a year ago
milton keynes |
"The Tax Payers Alliance and the Tufton St Mafia would be proud of some of the on message comments in both these threads. Just goes to show the value of their investment and how it can steer the narrative."
I have heard of the tax payers alliance and if it is the one I think then they scrutinise how tax payers money is spent. Not heard of tufton st mafia though. Is it a similar thing |
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By *atEvolutionCouple
over a year ago
atlantisEVOLUTION Swingers Club. Stoke |
"The Tax Payers Alliance and the Tufton St Mafia would be proud of some of the on message comments in both these threads. Just goes to show the value of their investment and how it can steer the narrative.
I have heard of the tax payers alliance and if it is the one I think then they scrutinise how tax payers money is spent. Not heard of tufton st mafia though. Is it a similar thing"
lmao |
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"This seemed to create sone interesting debate so I thought why not another brick through the window.
A lot of people claiming they’ve earned everything they have without anyones help.
I’d like to see how they’ve done that without any other people being involved with the likes of guiding direction, education, introductions, or support. Self funded too I’m sure .. not! Self made is an easy term to bandy about but true self made, I for one call that total bullshit! Self driven and hard working and indeed totally deserving of success maybe, but totally self made nah not having it.
Tax should be paid in equal measure for rich and poor. Have a threshold for the very poor if you like. But after 50k you pay say 40% and everyone earning above that pays the same 40% . No offshore, no non doms. Just a straight rate for all regardless of income. By default if you earn more you keep more.
Dividends are enough of an incentive to do well in business so the selfish greed needs to be stopped.
As for the jealousy and it’s just spiteful envy comments, I built my own businesses and am wealthy by any standards in this country so I’m not jealous or envious. I’m practical and have a sense of fairness to give everyone an equal opportunity to reach the top of their potential. Our fake class driven society respects their betters due to status rather than ability. Sunak’s wife inherited her wealth she didn’t create it. Why should she be treated differently to any full tax paying worker?
A generally wealthier caring society increases wealth and opportunities for all. The theory of trickle down wealth has proven that it does not.
So I for one want a fairer tax regime to be implemented. Those if you who think the colonial Non Dom status is a good thing I believe are wrong and misguided. . Why so you always quote percentages instead of the amount actually paid in hard cash. A percentage figure can be manipulated to distort things.
The do called rich already pay the majority of the tax in the UK. Surely you should be trying to identify who uses public services , the actual cost in money terms and how much tax in hard cash the relevant sections pay.
Intersting one newspaper did a survey and asked people about tax rates. When those who wanted higher rates were handed a form by the newspaper in order to pay additional tax to HMRC , every single person who was so much in favour of higher taxes declined to fill it in. None of them wanted to put their ideas into practice.
Do we even need to collect more taxes . ? How about better management of existing resources. It is always very easy to spennd other peoples money.
Why are you obsessed with how much someone uses public funded services?
Why are you obsessed with absolute numbers rather than equal proportionality?
Do you honestly think offshoring wealth or owning property via tax haven based companies to avoid IHT etc is right?
Have a quick flick through the handbook. I reckon there are a few emotive soundbites and paragraphs you can lift on page 247!!!"
. I would have thought that it is absolutely crucial to identify who uses public services, why they are used and more importantly the cost of providing a service. Simply asking people to pay more tax hardly solves the issue . |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"The Tax Payers Alliance and the Tufton St Mafia would be proud of some of the on message comments in both these threads. Just goes to show the value of their investment and how it can steer the narrative.
I have heard of the tax payers alliance and if it is the one I think then they scrutinise how tax payers money is spent. Not heard of tufton st mafia though. Is it a similar thing"
I can never tell if people are being serious or being ironic. Look into the TPA. They are a right wing lobby group funded by high net worth individuals to further the priorities of the super rich. Research Matthew Elliot. |
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By *ackal1 OP Couple
over a year ago
Manchester |
"This seemed to create sone interesting debate so I thought why not another brick through the window.
A lot of people claiming they’ve earned everything they have without anyones help.
I’d like to see how they’ve done that without any other people being involved with the likes of guiding direction, education, introductions, or support. Self funded too I’m sure .. not! Self made is an easy term to bandy about but true self made, I for one call that total bullshit! Self driven and hard working and indeed totally deserving of success maybe, but totally self made nah not having it.
Tax should be paid in equal measure for rich and poor. Have a threshold for the very poor if you like. But after 50k you pay say 40% and everyone earning above that pays the same 40% . No offshore, no non doms. Just a straight rate for all regardless of income. By default if you earn more you keep more.
Dividends are enough of an incentive to do well in business so the selfish greed needs to be stopped.
As for the jealousy and it’s just spiteful envy comments, I built my own businesses and am wealthy by any standards in this country so I’m not jealous or envious. I’m practical and have a sense of fairness to give everyone an equal opportunity to reach the top of their potential. Our fake class driven society respects their betters due to status rather than ability. Sunak’s wife inherited her wealth she didn’t create it. Why should she be treated differently to any full tax paying worker?
A generally wealthier caring society increases wealth and opportunities for all. The theory of trickle down wealth has proven that it does not.
So I for one want a fairer tax regime to be implemented. Those if you who think the colonial Non Dom status is a good thing I believe are wrong and misguided. . Why so you always quote percentages instead of the amount actually paid in hard cash. A percentage figure can be manipulated to distort things.
The do called rich already pay the majority of the tax in the UK. Surely you should be trying to identify who uses public services , the actual cost in money terms and how much tax in hard cash the relevant sections pay.
Intersting one newspaper did a survey and asked people about tax rates. When those who wanted higher rates were handed a form by the newspaper in order to pay additional tax to HMRC , every single person who was so much in favour of higher taxes declined to fill it in. None of them wanted to put their ideas into practice.
Do we even need to collect more taxes . ? How about better management of existing resources. It is always very easy to spennd other peoples money. "
Percentages is the fair payment based on income. If we all pay 20% then the pain and per stage of your income is the same. What is so hard to understand with that?
Spreading fines are now related to earnings so you can in effect pay 100% of your weeks salary. That fine is limited to £2500 . So if you earn £500 you have nothing left .
If you earn £10000 a week you only pay 25% so the pain is less. Is that fair? You have both committed the same offence. Don’t speed is the mantra but why should a richer person pay less of their wage? The poorer paid cannot pay a single bill that week but the richer guy still has 75% of his wage left. The poorer are treated differently. |
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By *ackal1 OP Couple
over a year ago
Manchester |
"This seemed to create sone interesting debate so I thought why not another brick through the window.
A lot of people claiming they’ve earned everything they have without anyones help.
I’d like to see how they’ve done that without any other people being involved with the likes of guiding direction, education, introductions, or support. Self funded too I’m sure .. not! Self made is an easy term to bandy about but true self made, I for one call that total bullshit! Self driven and hard working and indeed totally deserving of success maybe, but totally self made nah not having it.
Tax should be paid in equal measure for rich and poor. Have a threshold for the very poor if you like. But after 50k you pay say 40% and everyone earning above that pays the same 40% . No offshore, no non doms. Just a straight rate for all regardless of income. By default if you earn more you keep more.
Dividends are enough of an incentive to do well in business so the selfish greed needs to be stopped.
As for the jealousy and it’s just spiteful envy comments, I built my own businesses and am wealthy by any standards in this country so I’m not jealous or envious. I’m practical and have a sense of fairness to give everyone an equal opportunity to reach the top of their potential. Our fake class driven society respects their betters due to status rather than ability. Sunak’s wife inherited her wealth she didn’t create it. Why should she be treated differently to any full tax paying worker?
A generally wealthier caring society increases wealth and opportunities for all. The theory of trickle down wealth has proven that it does not.
So I for one want a fairer tax regime to be implemented. Those if you who think the colonial Non Dom status is a good thing I believe are wrong and misguided. I would say that it does work, im considerably much better off due to my parents hard work and when i die my children will be too what are you going to do leave it all to a cats home and not your kids?"
Who said you can’t leave money to your kids? I certainly didn’t so please don’t make stuff up. My dad pays tax on his pension. He already paid tax on the money before putting it in his pension. The same principal should be applicable to pension investment as with corporate investments such as property or cash. To not pay tax because you bought a house in Belgravia that’s gone up a million is not on a fair and equal basis to someone saving £50 a month into a pension who has to pay tax. |
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By *ebbie69Couple
over a year ago
milton keynes |
"The Tax Payers Alliance and the Tufton St Mafia would be proud of some of the on message comments in both these threads. Just goes to show the value of their investment and how it can steer the narrative.
I have heard of the tax payers alliance and if it is the one I think then they scrutinise how tax payers money is spent. Not heard of tufton st mafia though. Is it a similar thing
I can never tell if people are being serious or being ironic. Look into the TPA. They are a right wing lobby group funded by high net worth individuals to further the priorities of the super rich. Research Matthew Elliot. "
Not ironic just a straight question as not heard of them before and doubt I will trouble them anytime soon. I have heard of the tax payers alliance as they are often quoted on the news |
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By *ackal1 OP Couple
over a year ago
Manchester |
"This seemed to create sone interesting debate so I thought why not another brick through the window.
A lot of people claiming they’ve earned everything they have without anyones help.
I’d like to see how they’ve done that without any other people being involved with the likes of guiding direction, education, introductions, or support. Self funded too I’m sure .. not! Self made is an easy term to bandy about but true self made, I for one call that total bullshit! Self driven and hard working and indeed totally deserving of success maybe, but totally self made nah not having it.
Tax should be paid in equal measure for rich and poor. Have a threshold for the very poor if you like. But after 50k you pay say 40% and everyone earning above that pays the same 40% . No offshore, no non doms. Just a straight rate for all regardless of income. By default if you earn more you keep more.
Dividends are enough of an incentive to do well in business so the selfish greed needs to be stopped.
As for the jealousy and it’s just spiteful envy comments, I built my own businesses and am wealthy by any standards in this country so I’m not jealous or envious. I’m practical and have a sense of fairness to give everyone an equal opportunity to reach the top of their potential. Our fake class driven society respects their betters due to status rather than ability. Sunak’s wife inherited her wealth she didn’t create it. Why should she be treated differently to any full tax paying worker?
A generally wealthier caring society increases wealth and opportunities for all. The theory of trickle down wealth has proven that it does not.
So I for one want a fairer tax regime to be implemented. Those if you who think the colonial Non Dom status is a good thing I believe are wrong and misguided. . Why so you always quote percentages instead of the amount actually paid in hard cash. A percentage figure can be manipulated to distort things.
The do called rich already pay the majority of the tax in the UK. Surely you should be trying to identify who uses public services , the actual cost in money terms and how much tax in hard cash the relevant sections pay.
Intersting one newspaper did a survey and asked people about tax rates. When those who wanted higher rates were handed a form by the newspaper in order to pay additional tax to HMRC , every single person who was so much in favour of higher taxes declined to fill it in. None of them wanted to put their ideas into practice.
Do we even need to collect more taxes . ? How about better management of existing resources. It is always very easy to spennd other peoples money.
Why are you obsessed with how much someone uses public funded services?
Why are you obsessed with absolute numbers rather than equal proportionality?
Do you honestly think offshoring wealth or owning property via tax haven based companies to avoid IHT etc is right?
Have a quick flick through the handbook. I reckon there are a few emotive soundbites and paragraphs you can lift on page 247!!!. I would have thought that it is absolutely crucial to identify who uses public services, why they are used and more importantly the cost of providing a service. Simply asking people to pay more tax hardly solves the issue ."
If more of the tax burden was shared it would follow that through increased spending on education and such things as infrastructure people would use less benefits due to being more active economically. It’s not a set figure. Having equal percentage burden on tax is.
No one is asking for anyone to pay more tax than the highest PAYE rate of 45% . That’s the cap as to treat all earners with the same limit is truly equal. No one is advocating punitive tax regimes. |
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By *ackal1 OP Couple
over a year ago
Manchester |
"The Tax Payers Alliance and the Tufton St Mafia would be proud of some of the on message comments in both these threads. Just goes to show the value of their investment and how it can steer the narrative.
I have heard of the tax payers alliance and if it is the one I think then they scrutinise how tax payers money is spent. Not heard of tufton st mafia though. Is it a similar thing
I can never tell if people are being serious or being ironic. Look into the TPA. They are a right wing lobby group funded by high net worth individuals to further the priorities of the super rich. Research Matthew Elliot.
Not ironic just a straight question as not heard of them before and doubt I will trouble them anytime soon. I have heard of the tax payers alliance as they are often quoted on the news "
The Tufton street reference is actually quite sinister when you read into who they are and how they operate. I only learnt of them a few years ago as they keep a very low profile. |
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By *ebbie69Couple
over a year ago
milton keynes |
"The Tax Payers Alliance and the Tufton St Mafia would be proud of some of the on message comments in both these threads. Just goes to show the value of their investment and how it can steer the narrative.
I have heard of the tax payers alliance and if it is the one I think then they scrutinise how tax payers money is spent. Not heard of tufton st mafia though. Is it a similar thing
I can never tell if people are being serious or being ironic. Look into the TPA. They are a right wing lobby group funded by high net worth individuals to further the priorities of the super rich. Research Matthew Elliot.
Not ironic just a straight question as not heard of them before and doubt I will trouble them anytime soon. I have heard of the tax payers alliance as they are often quoted on the news
The Tufton street reference is actually quite sinister when you read into who they are and how they operate. I only learnt of them a few years ago as they keep a very low profile. "
Not my cup of tea so will steer clear |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I don't see this as being jealous of his or her income, it's about the position he holds and the decisions he makes that effects the lives of just about everyone in the UK , while enjoying the perks of his position and more importantly.. his influence |
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By *ackal1 OP Couple
over a year ago
Manchester |
"I don't see this as being jealous of his or her income, it's about the position he holds and the decisions he makes that effects the lives of just about everyone in the UK , while enjoying the perks of his position and more importantly.. his influence"
I agree with this but in addition why do people think it’s ok for others to not pay tax when they do? Bizarre |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"I don't see this as being jealous of his or her income, it's about the position he holds and the decisions he makes that effects the lives of just about everyone in the UK , while enjoying the perks of his position and more importantly.. his influence
I agree with this but in addition why do people think it’s ok for others to not pay tax when they do? Bizarre "
Those who make excuses (generally “we would all do it”) mostly live in the hope that one day they too will join the 0.1% club and be able to game the system. It’s the same reason many people continue to vote Tory as if that party (as it stands now) remotely cares or helps anyone other than the very wealthy.
The rhetoric (as I said, proactively steered by Tufton St for years now) has been fully embedded in consciousness of anyone remotely right leaning to say “they earned it so they should keep it” or “in absolute terms the rich already pay the most” conveniently ignoring that the fairest system is just to charge everyone the same percentage of their income - ALL their income. |
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"I don't see this as being jealous of his or her income, it's about the position he holds and the decisions he makes that effects the lives of just about everyone in the UK , while enjoying the perks of his position and more importantly.. his influence
I agree with this but in addition why do people think it’s ok for others to not pay tax when they do? Bizarre
Those who make excuses (generally “we would all do it”) mostly live in the hope that one day they too will join the 0.1% club and be able to game the system. It’s the same reason many people continue to vote Tory as if that party (as it stands now) remotely cares or helps anyone other than the very wealthy.
The rhetoric (as I said, proactively steered by Tufton St for years now) has been fully embedded in consciousness of anyone remotely right leaning to say “they earned it so they should keep it” or “in absolute terms the rich already pay the most” conveniently ignoring that the fairest system is just to charge everyone the same percentage of their income - ALL their income."
I do not see many people saying that they hope to join the 0.1 % club to which you refer. Maybe people have enough common sense to realise that punitive or unnecessary taxation might just encourage those targeted to leave the country which means that the rest of us would be worse off and end up paying even more tax. If you attempt to match taxes paid to the amount of usage of each public service as per each individual I think you will find that the wealthy contribute many times over . It night just be that most members of the public believe that people should pay their own way in life and not be dependent on taxes paid by a comparatively small section of the population .
People vote Tory because they believe in justice and fairness . Hence the reason for an 80 seat majority at the last election |
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It looks like their neighbours in Yorkshire think very highly of the Sunaks . To quote one neighbour " I do not think that anyone gives a stuff round here if Akshatas non dom . Look at everyone else - all the farmers taking subsidy money from the and the government . What's the difference " |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"I don't see this as being jealous of his or her income, it's about the position he holds and the decisions he makes that effects the lives of just about everyone in the UK , while enjoying the perks of his position and more importantly.. his influence
I agree with this but in addition why do people think it’s ok for others to not pay tax when they do? Bizarre
Those who make excuses (generally “we would all do it”) mostly live in the hope that one day they too will join the 0.1% club and be able to game the system. It’s the same reason many people continue to vote Tory as if that party (as it stands now) remotely cares or helps anyone other than the very wealthy.
The rhetoric (as I said, proactively steered by Tufton St for years now) has been fully embedded in consciousness of anyone remotely right leaning to say “they earned it so they should keep it” or “in absolute terms the rich already pay the most” conveniently ignoring that the fairest system is just to charge everyone the same percentage of their income - ALL their income. I do not see many people saying that they hope to join the 0.1 % club to which you refer. Maybe people have enough common sense to realise that punitive or unnecessary taxation might just encourage those targeted to leave the country which means that the rest of us would be worse off and end up paying even more tax. If you attempt to match taxes paid to the amount of usage of each public service as per each individual I think you will find that the wealthy contribute many times over . It night just be that most members of the public believe that people should pay their own way in life and not be dependent on taxes paid by a comparatively small section of the population .
People vote Tory because they believe in justice and fairness . Hence the reason for an 80 seat majority at the last election "
Which page of the Tufton St Manual did that paragraph come from? |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
There are reports that tax experts have urged HMRC to investigate whether £4.3m in interest-free loans made by Chancellor Rishi Sunak’s wife to her venture capital firm broke the terms of her non-dom status.
In other (not reported in the) news...
Some 400,000 disabled people across England have been stripped of the right to free insulation that could bring down their heating bills, in a move quietly slipped out by the government on Friday. |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"I don't see this as being jealous of his or her income, it's about the position he holds and the decisions he makes that effects the lives of just about everyone in the UK , while enjoying the perks of his position and more importantly.. his influence
I agree with this but in addition why do people think it’s ok for others to not pay tax when they do? Bizarre
Those who make excuses (generally “we would all do it”) mostly live in the hope that one day they too will join the 0.1% club and be able to game the system. It’s the same reason many people continue to vote Tory as if that party (as it stands now) remotely cares or helps anyone other than the very wealthy.
The rhetoric (as I said, proactively steered by Tufton St for years now) has been fully embedded in consciousness of anyone remotely right leaning to say “they earned it so they should keep it” or “in absolute terms the rich already pay the most” conveniently ignoring that the fairest system is just to charge everyone the same percentage of their income - ALL their income. I do not see many people saying that they hope to join the 0.1 % club to which you refer. Maybe people have enough common sense to realise that punitive or unnecessary taxation might just encourage those targeted to leave the country which means that the rest of us would be worse off and end up paying even more tax. If you attempt to match taxes paid to the amount of usage of each public service as per each individual I think you will find that the wealthy contribute many times over . It night just be that most members of the public believe that people should pay their own way in life and not be dependent on taxes paid by a comparatively small section of the population .
People vote Tory because they believe in justice and fairness . Hence the reason for an 80 seat majority at the last election "
Explain how everyone paying the same proportion of tax is punitive? Why should someone who is PAYE and earning £150k pay 45% but someone earning £millions not? Why is it morally right to have offshore financial mechanisms that allow the super rich to actually pay a smaller proportion of their income than basic rate tax payers?
You will just spin out absolute numbers again and I will continue to counter that NONE of these super rich people have earned their riches solely through their own efforts. It is morally right for the stronger in society to help the weak, the rich to help the poor. Your counter argument (TPA and Tufton St handbook) is morally bankrupt and purely based around an agenda driven by greed.
Everyone should pay the same proportion. Simple. Close all loopholes and drastically simplify the tax code in UK.
Better education, better healthcare, better housing ALL ultimately leads to better outcomes for society as a whole. It leads to lower crime levels, higher employment levels and better health all reducing welfare, healthcare and law enforcement costs for the state. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I don't see this as being jealous of his or her income, it's about the position he holds and the decisions he makes that effects the lives of just about everyone in the UK , while enjoying the perks of his position and more importantly.. his influence
I agree with this but in addition why do people think it’s ok for others to not pay tax when they do? Bizarre
Those who make excuses (generally “we would all do it”) mostly live in the hope that one day they too will join the 0.1% club and be able to game the system. It’s the same reason many people continue to vote Tory as if that party (as it stands now) remotely cares or helps anyone other than the very wealthy.
The rhetoric (as I said, proactively steered by Tufton St for years now) has been fully embedded in consciousness of anyone remotely right leaning to say “they earned it so they should keep it” or “in absolute terms the rich already pay the most” conveniently ignoring that the fairest system is just to charge everyone the same percentage of their income - ALL their income. I do not see many people saying that they hope to join the 0.1 % club to which you refer. Maybe people have enough common sense to realise that punitive or unnecessary taxation might just encourage those targeted to leave the country which means that the rest of us would be worse off and end up paying even more tax. If you attempt to match taxes paid to the amount of usage of each public service as per each individual I think you will find that the wealthy contribute many times over . It night just be that most members of the public believe that people should pay their own way in life and not be dependent on taxes paid by a comparatively small section of the population .
People vote Tory because they believe in justice and fairness . Hence the reason for an 80 seat majority at the last election
Explain how everyone paying the same proportion of tax is punitive? Why should someone who is PAYE and earning £150k pay 45% but someone earning £millions not? Why is it morally right to have offshore financial mechanisms that allow the super rich to actually pay a smaller proportion of their income than basic rate tax payers?
You will just spin out absolute numbers again and I will continue to counter that NONE of these super rich people have earned their riches solely through their own efforts. It is morally right for the stronger in society to help the weak, the rich to help the poor. Your counter argument (TPA and Tufton St handbook) is morally bankrupt and purely based around an agenda driven by greed.
Everyone should pay the same proportion. Simple. Close all loopholes and drastically simplify the tax code in UK.
Better education, better healthcare, better housing ALL ultimately leads to better outcomes for society as a whole. It leads to lower crime levels, higher employment levels and better health all reducing welfare, healthcare and law enforcement costs for the state."
your problem is you believe in morals think they left this place in the 1930 but good luck |
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"I don't see this as being jealous of his or her income, it's about the position he holds and the decisions he makes that effects the lives of just about everyone in the UK , while enjoying the perks of his position and more importantly.. his influence
I agree with this but in addition why do people think it’s ok for others to not pay tax when they do? Bizarre
Those who make excuses (generally “we would all do it”) mostly live in the hope that one day they too will join the 0.1% club and be able to game the system. It’s the same reason many people continue to vote Tory as if that party (as it stands now) remotely cares or helps anyone other than the very wealthy.
The rhetoric (as I said, proactively steered by Tufton St for years now) has been fully embedded in consciousness of anyone remotely right leaning to say “they earned it so they should keep it” or “in absolute terms the rich already pay the most” conveniently ignoring that the fairest system is just to charge everyone the same percentage of their income - ALL their income. I do not see many people saying that they hope to join the 0.1 % club to which you refer. Maybe people have enough common sense to realise that punitive or unnecessary taxation might just encourage those targeted to leave the country which means that the rest of us would be worse off and end up paying even more tax. If you attempt to match taxes paid to the amount of usage of each public service as per each individual I think you will find that the wealthy contribute many times over . It night just be that most members of the public believe that people should pay their own way in life and not be dependent on taxes paid by a comparatively small section of the population .
People vote Tory because they believe in justice and fairness . Hence the reason for an 80 seat majority at the last election
Explain how everyone paying the same proportion of tax is punitive? Why should someone who is PAYE and earning £150k pay 45% but someone earning £millions not? Why is it morally right to have offshore financial mechanisms that allow the super rich to actually pay a smaller proportion of their income than basic rate tax payers?
You will just spin out absolute numbers again and I will continue to counter that NONE of these super rich people have earned their riches solely through their own efforts. It is morally right for the stronger in society to help the weak, the rich to help the poor. Your counter argument (TPA and Tufton St handbook) is morally bankrupt and purely based around an agenda driven by greed.
Everyone should pay the same proportion. Simple. Close all loopholes and drastically simplify the tax code in UK.
Better education, better healthcare, better housing ALL ultimately leads to better outcomes for society as a whole. It leads to lower crime levels, higher employment levels and better health all reducing welfare, healthcare and law enforcement costs for the state."
However I do not think morals enter the equation or have any relevance. As things stand the Conservatives have an 80 seat majority so it can only be concluded that most people are happy with the help given to the less well off in society . The type of help required is probably non monetary so an obsession with taxation does not help . Reinforcement of family values and taking care of others is far more important. Many large plcs work in partnership with charities . B & Q assist Shelter and Tesco help local charities and foodbanks. Taxation is hardly the solution ,guidance and advice is .
A caring society is not the exclusive territory of the left. Not everyone wants to rely on the taxpayer to fund their needs. An excellent illustration of how caring we are is the funding of mobility vehicles. There are circa 500 000 on the road. Another example is housing benefit. Maybe instead of constantly suggesting people pay extra tax we should be monitoring who actually uses the various public services and are they all necessary. |
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"I don't see this as being jealous of his or her income, it's about the position he holds and the decisions he makes that effects the lives of just about everyone in the UK , while enjoying the perks of his position and more importantly.. his influence
I agree with this but in addition why do people think it’s ok for others to not pay tax when they do? Bizarre
Those who make excuses (generally “we would all do it”) mostly live in the hope that one day they too will join the 0.1% club and be able to game the system. It’s the same reason many people continue to vote Tory as if that party (as it stands now) remotely cares or helps anyone other than the very wealthy.
The rhetoric (as I said, proactively steered by Tufton St for years now) has been fully embedded in consciousness of anyone remotely right leaning to say “they earned it so they should keep it” or “in absolute terms the rich already pay the most” conveniently ignoring that the fairest system is just to charge everyone the same percentage of their income - ALL their income. I do not see many people saying that they hope to join the 0.1 % club to which you refer. Maybe people have enough common sense to realise that punitive or unnecessary taxation might just encourage those targeted to leave the country which means that the rest of us would be worse off and end up paying even more tax. If you attempt to match taxes paid to the amount of usage of each public service as per each individual I think you will find that the wealthy contribute many times over . It night just be that most members of the public believe that people should pay their own way in life and not be dependent on taxes paid by a comparatively small section of the population .
People vote Tory because they believe in justice and fairness . Hence the reason for an 80 seat majority at the last election
Explain how everyone paying the same proportion of tax is punitive? Why should someone who is PAYE and earning £150k pay 45% but someone earning £millions not? Why is it morally right to have offshore financial mechanisms that allow the super rich to actually pay a smaller proportion of their income than basic rate tax payers?
You will just spin out absolute numbers again and I will continue to counter that NONE of these super rich people have earned their riches solely through their own efforts. It is morally right for the stronger in society to help the weak, the rich to help the poor. Your counter argument (TPA and Tufton St handbook) is morally bankrupt and purely based around an agenda driven by greed.
Everyone should pay the same proportion. Simple. Close all loopholes and drastically simplify the tax code in UK.
Better education, better healthcare, better housing ALL ultimately leads to better outcomes for society as a whole. It leads to lower crime levels, higher employment levels and better health all reducing welfare, healthcare and law enforcement costs for the state. However I do not think morals enter the equation or have any relevance. As things stand the Conservatives have an 80 seat majority so it can only be concluded that most people are happy with the help given to the less well off in society . The type of help required is probably non monetary so an obsession with taxation does not help . Reinforcement of family values and taking care of others is far more important. Many large plcs work in partnership with charities . B & Q assist Shelter and Tesco help local charities and foodbanks. Taxation is hardly the solution ,guidance and advice is .
A caring society is not the exclusive territory of the left. Not everyone wants to rely on the taxpayer to fund their needs. An excellent illustration of how caring we are is the funding of mobility vehicles. There are circa 500 000 on the road. Another example is housing benefit. Maybe instead of constantly suggesting people pay extra tax we should be monitoring who actually uses the various public services and are they all necessary. "
I agree with your points about apathy among the electorate.
The interesting question is more about why. What is the reason that Conservative voters not only don't care that the government is ripping off British people, but actually champion them, and attack anyone who thinks we deserve better. |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"I don't see this as being jealous of his or her income, it's about the position he holds and the decisions he makes that effects the lives of just about everyone in the UK , while enjoying the perks of his position and more importantly.. his influence
I agree with this but in addition why do people think it’s ok for others to not pay tax when they do? Bizarre
Those who make excuses (generally “we would all do it”) mostly live in the hope that one day they too will join the 0.1% club and be able to game the system. It’s the same reason many people continue to vote Tory as if that party (as it stands now) remotely cares or helps anyone other than the very wealthy.
The rhetoric (as I said, proactively steered by Tufton St for years now) has been fully embedded in consciousness of anyone remotely right leaning to say “they earned it so they should keep it” or “in absolute terms the rich already pay the most” conveniently ignoring that the fairest system is just to charge everyone the same percentage of their income - ALL their income. I do not see many people saying that they hope to join the 0.1 % club to which you refer. Maybe people have enough common sense to realise that punitive or unnecessary taxation might just encourage those targeted to leave the country which means that the rest of us would be worse off and end up paying even more tax. If you attempt to match taxes paid to the amount of usage of each public service as per each individual I think you will find that the wealthy contribute many times over . It night just be that most members of the public believe that people should pay their own way in life and not be dependent on taxes paid by a comparatively small section of the population .
People vote Tory because they believe in justice and fairness . Hence the reason for an 80 seat majority at the last election
Explain how everyone paying the same proportion of tax is punitive? Why should someone who is PAYE and earning £150k pay 45% but someone earning £millions not? Why is it morally right to have offshore financial mechanisms that allow the super rich to actually pay a smaller proportion of their income than basic rate tax payers?
You will just spin out absolute numbers again and I will continue to counter that NONE of these super rich people have earned their riches solely through their own efforts. It is morally right for the stronger in society to help the weak, the rich to help the poor. Your counter argument (TPA and Tufton St handbook) is morally bankrupt and purely based around an agenda driven by greed.
Everyone should pay the same proportion. Simple. Close all loopholes and drastically simplify the tax code in UK.
Better education, better healthcare, better housing ALL ultimately leads to better outcomes for society as a whole. It leads to lower crime levels, higher employment levels and better health all reducing welfare, healthcare and law enforcement costs for the state. However I do not think morals enter the equation or have any relevance. As things stand the Conservatives have an 80 seat majority so it can only be concluded that most people are happy with the help given to the less well off in society . The type of help required is probably non monetary so an obsession with taxation does not help . Reinforcement of family values and taking care of others is far more important. Many large plcs work in partnership with charities . B & Q assist Shelter and Tesco help local charities and foodbanks. Taxation is hardly the solution ,guidance and advice is .
A caring society is not the exclusive territory of the left. Not everyone wants to rely on the taxpayer to fund their needs. An excellent illustration of how caring we are is the funding of mobility vehicles. There are circa 500 000 on the road. Another example is housing benefit. Maybe instead of constantly suggesting people pay extra tax we should be monitoring who actually uses the various public services and are they all necessary. "
The reason the Johnson led Government (I cannot even bring myself to really identify them as Conservatives as they are in reality a bunch of self serving disaster capitalist corrupt thieving proto-fascists that Thatcher would have expelled) is down to a just two issues:
1. Brexit*
2. Corbyn was pretty much unelectable
*a significant minority of the eligible electorate but sadly a slim majority of those who voted
Trying to reposition this as tacit support for the Government is laughable.
As for your mobility cars example (that you have used before) I note you didn’t address my earlier point on 400k disabled people who have now been denied previously promised help with home insulation at a time when energy bills have increased at least 54%. |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"I don't see this as being jealous of his or her income, it's about the position he holds and the decisions he makes that effects the lives of just about everyone in the UK , while enjoying the perks of his position and more importantly.. his influence
I agree with this but in addition why do people think it’s ok for others to not pay tax when they do? Bizarre
Those who make excuses (generally “we would all do it”) mostly live in the hope that one day they too will join the 0.1% club and be able to game the system. It’s the same reason many people continue to vote Tory as if that party (as it stands now) remotely cares or helps anyone other than the very wealthy.
The rhetoric (as I said, proactively steered by Tufton St for years now) has been fully embedded in consciousness of anyone remotely right leaning to say “they earned it so they should keep it” or “in absolute terms the rich already pay the most” conveniently ignoring that the fairest system is just to charge everyone the same percentage of their income - ALL their income. I do not see many people saying that they hope to join the 0.1 % club to which you refer. Maybe people have enough common sense to realise that punitive or unnecessary taxation might just encourage those targeted to leave the country which means that the rest of us would be worse off and end up paying even more tax. If you attempt to match taxes paid to the amount of usage of each public service as per each individual I think you will find that the wealthy contribute many times over . It night just be that most members of the public believe that people should pay their own way in life and not be dependent on taxes paid by a comparatively small section of the population .
People vote Tory because they believe in justice and fairness . Hence the reason for an 80 seat majority at the last election
Explain how everyone paying the same proportion of tax is punitive? Why should someone who is PAYE and earning £150k pay 45% but someone earning £millions not? Why is it morally right to have offshore financial mechanisms that allow the super rich to actually pay a smaller proportion of their income than basic rate tax payers?
You will just spin out absolute numbers again and I will continue to counter that NONE of these super rich people have earned their riches solely through their own efforts. It is morally right for the stronger in society to help the weak, the rich to help the poor. Your counter argument (TPA and Tufton St handbook) is morally bankrupt and purely based around an agenda driven by greed.
Everyone should pay the same proportion. Simple. Close all loopholes and drastically simplify the tax code in UK.
Better education, better healthcare, better housing ALL ultimately leads to better outcomes for society as a whole. It leads to lower crime levels, higher employment levels and better health all reducing welfare, healthcare and law enforcement costs for the state. However I do not think morals enter the equation or have any relevance. As things stand the Conservatives have an 80 seat majority so it can only be concluded that most people are happy with the help given to the less well off in society . The type of help required is probably non monetary so an obsession with taxation does not help . Reinforcement of family values and taking care of others is far more important. Many large plcs work in partnership with charities . B & Q assist Shelter and Tesco help local charities and foodbanks. Taxation is hardly the solution ,guidance and advice is .
A caring society is not the exclusive territory of the left. Not everyone wants to rely on the taxpayer to fund their needs. An excellent illustration of how caring we are is the funding of mobility vehicles. There are circa 500 000 on the road. Another example is housing benefit. Maybe instead of constantly suggesting people pay extra tax we should be monitoring who actually uses the various public services and are they all necessary.
I agree with your points about apathy among the electorate.
The interesting question is more about why. What is the reason that Conservative voters not only don't care that the government is ripping off British people, but actually champion them, and attack anyone who thinks we deserve better."
Don’t expect a straight answer because if you re-read many of the posts they are cut n paste carbon copies of what TPA and those in Tufton St have been trotting out for years. Almost verbatim. Makes you wonder and suspicious because social media is rife with bad actors.
As for why. Because the super wealthy control the narrative and have for years. It is all carefully worded to on the surface sound all so reasonable. That narrative permeates the majority of media which is, strangely enough, owned by the super wealthy.
Brexit proves that if you spend years sowing seeds and subtly twisting the truth you can ultimately achieve your aims. It is death by a thousand tiny little cuts. |
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"I don't see this as being jealous of his or her income, it's about the position he holds and the decisions he makes that effects the lives of just about everyone in the UK , while enjoying the perks of his position and more importantly.. his influence
I agree with this but in addition why do people think it’s ok for others to not pay tax when they do? Bizarre
Those who make excuses (generally “we would all do it”) mostly live in the hope that one day they too will join the 0.1% club and be able to game the system. It’s the same reason many people continue to vote Tory as if that party (as it stands now) remotely cares or helps anyone other than the very wealthy.
The rhetoric (as I said, proactively steered by Tufton St for years now) has been fully embedded in consciousness of anyone remotely right leaning to say “they earned it so they should keep it” or “in absolute terms the rich already pay the most” conveniently ignoring that the fairest system is just to charge everyone the same percentage of their income - ALL their income. I do not see many people saying that they hope to join the 0.1 % club to which you refer. Maybe people have enough common sense to realise that punitive or unnecessary taxation might just encourage those targeted to leave the country which means that the rest of us would be worse off and end up paying even more tax. If you attempt to match taxes paid to the amount of usage of each public service as per each individual I think you will find that the wealthy contribute many times over . It night just be that most members of the public believe that people should pay their own way in life and not be dependent on taxes paid by a comparatively small section of the population .
People vote Tory because they believe in justice and fairness . Hence the reason for an 80 seat majority at the last election
Explain how everyone paying the same proportion of tax is punitive? Why should someone who is PAYE and earning £150k pay 45% but someone earning £millions not? Why is it morally right to have offshore financial mechanisms that allow the super rich to actually pay a smaller proportion of their income than basic rate tax payers?
You will just spin out absolute numbers again and I will continue to counter that NONE of these super rich people have earned their riches solely through their own efforts. It is morally right for the stronger in society to help the weak, the rich to help the poor. Your counter argument (TPA and Tufton St handbook) is morally bankrupt and purely based around an agenda driven by greed.
Everyone should pay the same proportion. Simple. Close all loopholes and drastically simplify the tax code in UK.
Better education, better healthcare, better housing ALL ultimately leads to better outcomes for society as a whole. It leads to lower crime levels, higher employment levels and better health all reducing welfare, healthcare and law enforcement costs for the state. However I do not think morals enter the equation or have any relevance. As things stand the Conservatives have an 80 seat majority so it can only be concluded that most people are happy with the help given to the less well off in society . The type of help required is probably non monetary so an obsession with taxation does not help . Reinforcement of family values and taking care of others is far more important. Many large plcs work in partnership with charities . B & Q assist Shelter and Tesco help local charities and foodbanks. Taxation is hardly the solution ,guidance and advice is .
A caring society is not the exclusive territory of the left. Not everyone wants to rely on the taxpayer to fund their needs. An excellent illustration of how caring we are is the funding of mobility vehicles. There are circa 500 000 on the road. Another example is housing benefit. Maybe instead of constantly suggesting people pay extra tax we should be monitoring who actually uses the various public services and are they all necessary.
I agree with your points about apathy among the electorate.
The interesting question is more about why. What is the reason that Conservative voters not only don't care that the government is ripping off British people, but actually champion them, and attack anyone who thinks we deserve better.
Don’t expect a straight answer because if you re-read many of the posts they are cut n paste carbon copies of what TPA and those in Tufton St have been trotting out for years. Almost verbatim. Makes you wonder and suspicious because social media is rife with bad actors.
As for why. Because the super wealthy control the narrative and have for years. It is all carefully worded to on the surface sound all so reasonable. That narrative permeates the majority of media which is, strangely enough, owned by the super wealthy.
Brexit proves that if you spend years sowing seeds and subtly twisting the truth you can ultimately achieve your aims. It is death by a thousand tiny little cuts. "
I do not think that the super wealthy control the teaching profession or many local councils. Again neither the Guardian or Daily Mirror can be considered to be vocal supporters of the current government .
It might just be that wealth is entirely irrelevant and the important thing is how you communicate your ideas .
With Brexit the electorate was given the ultimate voters choice to shape the future . Money did not enter the equation. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Just Heard about an enquiry into who shopped his wife to the media... And his american green card tax avoidance wangle.
Will the tax payer be paying for this investigation? I wouldn't be surprised |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
With Brexit the electorate was given the ultimate voters choice to shape the future . Money did not enter the equation
"
With the Tories, it's all about money!! Motivated by pure greed
|
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
With Brexit the electorate was given the ultimate voters choice to shape the future . Money did not enter the equation
With the Tories, it's all about money!! Motivated by pure greed
"
I think for many people it's about money. I saw many doe hard labour supporters bemoan our taxes going to other (less wealthy) countries. Levelling up stops at Dover. (or 20 miles in). |
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"I don't see this as being jealous of his or her income, it's about the position he holds and the decisions he makes that effects the lives of just about everyone in the UK , while enjoying the perks of his position and more importantly.. his influence
I agree with this but in addition why do people think it’s ok for others to not pay tax when they do? Bizarre
Those who make excuses (generally “we would all do it”) mostly live in the hope that one day they too will join the 0.1% club and be able to game the system. It’s the same reason many people continue to vote Tory as if that party (as it stands now) remotely cares or helps anyone other than the very wealthy.
The rhetoric (as I said, proactively steered by Tufton St for years now) has been fully embedded in consciousness of anyone remotely right leaning to say “they earned it so they should keep it” or “in absolute terms the rich already pay the most” conveniently ignoring that the fairest system is just to charge everyone the same percentage of their income - ALL their income. I do not see many people saying that they hope to join the 0.1 % club to which you refer. Maybe people have enough common sense to realise that punitive or unnecessary taxation might just encourage those targeted to leave the country which means that the rest of us would be worse off and end up paying even more tax. If you attempt to match taxes paid to the amount of usage of each public service as per each individual I think you will find that the wealthy contribute many times over . It night just be that most members of the public believe that people should pay their own way in life and not be dependent on taxes paid by a comparatively small section of the population .
People vote Tory because they believe in justice and fairness . Hence the reason for an 80 seat majority at the last election
Explain how everyone paying the same proportion of tax is punitive? Why should someone who is PAYE and earning £150k pay 45% but someone earning £millions not? Why is it morally right to have offshore financial mechanisms that allow the super rich to actually pay a smaller proportion of their income than basic rate tax payers?
You will just spin out absolute numbers again and I will continue to counter that NONE of these super rich people have earned their riches solely through their own efforts. It is morally right for the stronger in society to help the weak, the rich to help the poor. Your counter argument (TPA and Tufton St handbook) is morally bankrupt and purely based around an agenda driven by greed.
Everyone should pay the same proportion. Simple. Close all loopholes and drastically simplify the tax code in UK.
Better education, better healthcare, better housing ALL ultimately leads to better outcomes for society as a whole. It leads to lower crime levels, higher employment levels and better health all reducing welfare, healthcare and law enforcement costs for the state. However I do not think morals enter the equation or have any relevance. As things stand the Conservatives have an 80 seat majority so it can only be concluded that most people are happy with the help given to the less well off in society . The type of help required is probably non monetary so an obsession with taxation does not help . Reinforcement of family values and taking care of others is far more important. Many large plcs work in partnership with charities . B & Q assist Shelter and Tesco help local charities and foodbanks. Taxation is hardly the solution ,guidance and advice is .
A caring society is not the exclusive territory of the left. Not everyone wants to rely on the taxpayer to fund their needs. An excellent illustration of how caring we are is the funding of mobility vehicles. There are circa 500 000 on the road. Another example is housing benefit. Maybe instead of constantly suggesting people pay extra tax we should be monitoring who actually uses the various public services and are they all necessary.
I agree with your points about apathy among the electorate.
The interesting question is more about why. What is the reason that Conservative voters not only don't care that the government is ripping off British people, but actually champion them, and attack anyone who thinks we deserve better.
Don’t expect a straight answer because if you re-read many of the posts they are cut n paste carbon copies of what TPA and those in Tufton St have been trotting out for years. Almost verbatim. Makes you wonder and suspicious because social media is rife with bad actors.
As for why. Because the super wealthy control the narrative and have for years. It is all carefully worded to on the surface sound all so reasonable. That narrative permeates the majority of media which is, strangely enough, owned by the super wealthy.
Brexit proves that if you spend years sowing seeds and subtly twisting the truth you can ultimately achieve your aims. It is death by a thousand tiny little cuts. "
Is it though, do you think that only people who think like you are the ones that have not been manipulated by the media and somehow you are superior? how arrogant, everybody has a brain and are quite capable of working out for themselves what it is they want.I hear it all the time from people when things have not gone their way "it cant be me the majority must have been brainwashed" it seems also that the go to excuse for losers now is "its outside influence" even Imran Khan is getting on board with that one now he has been ousted. |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"I don't see this as being jealous of his or her income, it's about the position he holds and the decisions he makes that effects the lives of just about everyone in the UK , while enjoying the perks of his position and more importantly.. his influence
I agree with this but in addition why do people think it’s ok for others to not pay tax when they do? Bizarre
Those who make excuses (generally “we would all do it”) mostly live in the hope that one day they too will join the 0.1% club and be able to game the system. It’s the same reason many people continue to vote Tory as if that party (as it stands now) remotely cares or helps anyone other than the very wealthy.
The rhetoric (as I said, proactively steered by Tufton St for years now) has been fully embedded in consciousness of anyone remotely right leaning to say “they earned it so they should keep it” or “in absolute terms the rich already pay the most” conveniently ignoring that the fairest system is just to charge everyone the same percentage of their income - ALL their income. I do not see many people saying that they hope to join the 0.1 % club to which you refer. Maybe people have enough common sense to realise that punitive or unnecessary taxation might just encourage those targeted to leave the country which means that the rest of us would be worse off and end up paying even more tax. If you attempt to match taxes paid to the amount of usage of each public service as per each individual I think you will find that the wealthy contribute many times over . It night just be that most members of the public believe that people should pay their own way in life and not be dependent on taxes paid by a comparatively small section of the population .
People vote Tory because they believe in justice and fairness . Hence the reason for an 80 seat majority at the last election
Explain how everyone paying the same proportion of tax is punitive? Why should someone who is PAYE and earning £150k pay 45% but someone earning £millions not? Why is it morally right to have offshore financial mechanisms that allow the super rich to actually pay a smaller proportion of their income than basic rate tax payers?
You will just spin out absolute numbers again and I will continue to counter that NONE of these super rich people have earned their riches solely through their own efforts. It is morally right for the stronger in society to help the weak, the rich to help the poor. Your counter argument (TPA and Tufton St handbook) is morally bankrupt and purely based around an agenda driven by greed.
Everyone should pay the same proportion. Simple. Close all loopholes and drastically simplify the tax code in UK.
Better education, better healthcare, better housing ALL ultimately leads to better outcomes for society as a whole. It leads to lower crime levels, higher employment levels and better health all reducing welfare, healthcare and law enforcement costs for the state. However I do not think morals enter the equation or have any relevance. As things stand the Conservatives have an 80 seat majority so it can only be concluded that most people are happy with the help given to the less well off in society . The type of help required is probably non monetary so an obsession with taxation does not help . Reinforcement of family values and taking care of others is far more important. Many large plcs work in partnership with charities . B & Q assist Shelter and Tesco help local charities and foodbanks. Taxation is hardly the solution ,guidance and advice is .
A caring society is not the exclusive territory of the left. Not everyone wants to rely on the taxpayer to fund their needs. An excellent illustration of how caring we are is the funding of mobility vehicles. There are circa 500 000 on the road. Another example is housing benefit. Maybe instead of constantly suggesting people pay extra tax we should be monitoring who actually uses the various public services and are they all necessary.
I agree with your points about apathy among the electorate.
The interesting question is more about why. What is the reason that Conservative voters not only don't care that the government is ripping off British people, but actually champion them, and attack anyone who thinks we deserve better.
Don’t expect a straight answer because if you re-read many of the posts they are cut n paste carbon copies of what TPA and those in Tufton St have been trotting out for years. Almost verbatim. Makes you wonder and suspicious because social media is rife with bad actors.
As for why. Because the super wealthy control the narrative and have for years. It is all carefully worded to on the surface sound all so reasonable. That narrative permeates the majority of media which is, strangely enough, owned by the super wealthy.
Brexit proves that if you spend years sowing seeds and subtly twisting the truth you can ultimately achieve your aims. It is death by a thousand tiny little cuts. I do not think that the super wealthy control the teaching profession or many local councils. Again neither the Guardian or Daily Mirror can be considered to be vocal supporters of the current government .
It might just be that wealth is entirely irrelevant and the important thing is how you communicate your ideas .
With Brexit the electorate was given the ultimate voters choice to shape the future . Money did not enter the equation. "
Utter utter twaddle. The level of influence through MSM and social media was huge as was the financial support.
The rhetoric aimed at the electorate was focused around the amount of money that the UK paid to the EU and how we were a net contributor (conveniently ignoring that a) like a membership fee it provided a wealth of benefits to our economy growing our GDP and b) investing in the poorer EU states was a long term game to uplift standards of living and ultimately create richer markets for our products). The mythical £350m a week for the NHS.
It was also focused around foreigners benefiting from our money.
And was largely driven by the fear of the super rich around future restrictions and exposure of records in tax havens (seven of the biggest being British Crown Dependencies).
So of course Brexit was about money all across the spectrum. Daft thing to say! |
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"I don't see this as being jealous of his or her income, it's about the position he holds and the decisions he makes that effects the lives of just about everyone in the UK , while enjoying the perks of his position and more importantly.. his influence
I agree with this but in addition why do people think it’s ok for others to not pay tax when they do? Bizarre
Those who make excuses (generally “we would all do it”) mostly live in the hope that one day they too will join the 0.1% club and be able to game the system. It’s the same reason many people continue to vote Tory as if that party (as it stands now) remotely cares or helps anyone other than the very wealthy.
The rhetoric (as I said, proactively steered by Tufton St for years now) has been fully embedded in consciousness of anyone remotely right leaning to say “they earned it so they should keep it” or “in absolute terms the rich already pay the most” conveniently ignoring that the fairest system is just to charge everyone the same percentage of their income - ALL their income. I do not see many people saying that they hope to join the 0.1 % club to which you refer. Maybe people have enough common sense to realise that punitive or unnecessary taxation might just encourage those targeted to leave the country which means that the rest of us would be worse off and end up paying even more tax. If you attempt to match taxes paid to the amount of usage of each public service as per each individual I think you will find that the wealthy contribute many times over . It night just be that most members of the public believe that people should pay their own way in life and not be dependent on taxes paid by a comparatively small section of the population .
People vote Tory because they believe in justice and fairness . Hence the reason for an 80 seat majority at the last election
Explain how everyone paying the same proportion of tax is punitive? Why should someone who is PAYE and earning £150k pay 45% but someone earning £millions not? Why is it morally right to have offshore financial mechanisms that allow the super rich to actually pay a smaller proportion of their income than basic rate tax payers?
You will just spin out absolute numbers again and I will continue to counter that NONE of these super rich people have earned their riches solely through their own efforts. It is morally right for the stronger in society to help the weak, the rich to help the poor. Your counter argument (TPA and Tufton St handbook) is morally bankrupt and purely based around an agenda driven by greed.
Everyone should pay the same proportion. Simple. Close all loopholes and drastically simplify the tax code in UK.
Better education, better healthcare, better housing ALL ultimately leads to better outcomes for society as a whole. It leads to lower crime levels, higher employment levels and better health all reducing welfare, healthcare and law enforcement costs for the state. However I do not think morals enter the equation or have any relevance. As things stand the Conservatives have an 80 seat majority so it can only be concluded that most people are happy with the help given to the less well off in society . The type of help required is probably non monetary so an obsession with taxation does not help . Reinforcement of family values and taking care of others is far more important. Many large plcs work in partnership with charities . B & Q assist Shelter and Tesco help local charities and foodbanks. Taxation is hardly the solution ,guidance and advice is .
A caring society is not the exclusive territory of the left. Not everyone wants to rely on the taxpayer to fund their needs. An excellent illustration of how caring we are is the funding of mobility vehicles. There are circa 500 000 on the road. Another example is housing benefit. Maybe instead of constantly suggesting people pay extra tax we should be monitoring who actually uses the various public services and are they all necessary.
I agree with your points about apathy among the electorate.
The interesting question is more about why. What is the reason that Conservative voters not only don't care that the government is ripping off British people, but actually champion them, and attack anyone who thinks we deserve better.
Don’t expect a straight answer because if you re-read many of the posts they are cut n paste carbon copies of what TPA and those in Tufton St have been trotting out for years. Almost verbatim. Makes you wonder and suspicious because social media is rife with bad actors.
As for why. Because the super wealthy control the narrative and have for years. It is all carefully worded to on the surface sound all so reasonable. That narrative permeates the majority of media which is, strangely enough, owned by the super wealthy.
Brexit proves that if you spend years sowing seeds and subtly twisting the truth you can ultimately achieve your aims. It is death by a thousand tiny little cuts. I do not think that the super wealthy control the teaching profession or many local councils. Again neither the Guardian or Daily Mirror can be considered to be vocal supporters of the current government .
It might just be that wealth is entirely irrelevant and the important thing is how you communicate your ideas .
With Brexit the electorate was given the ultimate voters choice to shape the future . Money did not enter the equation. "
Lolz
The other poster was right, I shouldn't have expected a straight answer. |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"I don't see this as being jealous of his or her income, it's about the position he holds and the decisions he makes that effects the lives of just about everyone in the UK , while enjoying the perks of his position and more importantly.. his influence
I agree with this but in addition why do people think it’s ok for others to not pay tax when they do? Bizarre
Those who make excuses (generally “we would all do it”) mostly live in the hope that one day they too will join the 0.1% club and be able to game the system. It’s the same reason many people continue to vote Tory as if that party (as it stands now) remotely cares or helps anyone other than the very wealthy.
The rhetoric (as I said, proactively steered by Tufton St for years now) has been fully embedded in consciousness of anyone remotely right leaning to say “they earned it so they should keep it” or “in absolute terms the rich already pay the most” conveniently ignoring that the fairest system is just to charge everyone the same percentage of their income - ALL their income. I do not see many people saying that they hope to join the 0.1 % club to which you refer. Maybe people have enough common sense to realise that punitive or unnecessary taxation might just encourage those targeted to leave the country which means that the rest of us would be worse off and end up paying even more tax. If you attempt to match taxes paid to the amount of usage of each public service as per each individual I think you will find that the wealthy contribute many times over . It night just be that most members of the public believe that people should pay their own way in life and not be dependent on taxes paid by a comparatively small section of the population .
People vote Tory because they believe in justice and fairness . Hence the reason for an 80 seat majority at the last election
Explain how everyone paying the same proportion of tax is punitive? Why should someone who is PAYE and earning £150k pay 45% but someone earning £millions not? Why is it morally right to have offshore financial mechanisms that allow the super rich to actually pay a smaller proportion of their income than basic rate tax payers?
You will just spin out absolute numbers again and I will continue to counter that NONE of these super rich people have earned their riches solely through their own efforts. It is morally right for the stronger in society to help the weak, the rich to help the poor. Your counter argument (TPA and Tufton St handbook) is morally bankrupt and purely based around an agenda driven by greed.
Everyone should pay the same proportion. Simple. Close all loopholes and drastically simplify the tax code in UK.
Better education, better healthcare, better housing ALL ultimately leads to better outcomes for society as a whole. It leads to lower crime levels, higher employment levels and better health all reducing welfare, healthcare and law enforcement costs for the state. However I do not think morals enter the equation or have any relevance. As things stand the Conservatives have an 80 seat majority so it can only be concluded that most people are happy with the help given to the less well off in society . The type of help required is probably non monetary so an obsession with taxation does not help . Reinforcement of family values and taking care of others is far more important. Many large plcs work in partnership with charities . B & Q assist Shelter and Tesco help local charities and foodbanks. Taxation is hardly the solution ,guidance and advice is .
A caring society is not the exclusive territory of the left. Not everyone wants to rely on the taxpayer to fund their needs. An excellent illustration of how caring we are is the funding of mobility vehicles. There are circa 500 000 on the road. Another example is housing benefit. Maybe instead of constantly suggesting people pay extra tax we should be monitoring who actually uses the various public services and are they all necessary.
I agree with your points about apathy among the electorate.
The interesting question is more about why. What is the reason that Conservative voters not only don't care that the government is ripping off British people, but actually champion them, and attack anyone who thinks we deserve better.
Don’t expect a straight answer because if you re-read many of the posts they are cut n paste carbon copies of what TPA and those in Tufton St have been trotting out for years. Almost verbatim. Makes you wonder and suspicious because social media is rife with bad actors.
As for why. Because the super wealthy control the narrative and have for years. It is all carefully worded to on the surface sound all so reasonable. That narrative permeates the majority of media which is, strangely enough, owned by the super wealthy.
Brexit proves that if you spend years sowing seeds and subtly twisting the truth you can ultimately achieve your aims. It is death by a thousand tiny little cuts. Is it though, do you think that only people who think like you are the ones that have not been manipulated by the media and somehow you are superior? how arrogant, everybody has a brain and are quite capable of working out for themselves what it is they want.I hear it all the time from people when things have not gone their way "it cant be me the majority must have been brainwashed" it seems also that the go to excuse for losers now is "its outside influence" even Imran Khan is getting on board with that one now he has been ousted."
Nice try but when the evidence from multiple sources is still piling up, I do not think this is an (arrogant) opinion restricted to me. There is a lot of “buyers remorse” with Leave voters (and opinion polls to back that up). |
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"I don't see this as being jealous of his or her income, it's about the position he holds and the decisions he makes that effects the lives of just about everyone in the UK , while enjoying the perks of his position and more importantly.. his influence
I agree with this but in addition why do people think it’s ok for others to not pay tax when they do? Bizarre
Those who make excuses (generally “we would all do it”) mostly live in the hope that one day they too will join the 0.1% club and be able to game the system. It’s the same reason many people continue to vote Tory as if that party (as it stands now) remotely cares or helps anyone other than the very wealthy.
The rhetoric (as I said, proactively steered by Tufton St for years now) has been fully embedded in consciousness of anyone remotely right leaning to say “they earned it so they should keep it” or “in absolute terms the rich already pay the most” conveniently ignoring that the fairest system is just to charge everyone the same percentage of their income - ALL their income. I do not see many people saying that they hope to join the 0.1 % club to which you refer. Maybe people have enough common sense to realise that punitive or unnecessary taxation might just encourage those targeted to leave the country which means that the rest of us would be worse off and end up paying even more tax. If you attempt to match taxes paid to the amount of usage of each public service as per each individual I think you will find that the wealthy contribute many times over . It night just be that most members of the public believe that people should pay their own way in life and not be dependent on taxes paid by a comparatively small section of the population .
People vote Tory because they believe in justice and fairness . Hence the reason for an 80 seat majority at the last election
Explain how everyone paying the same proportion of tax is punitive? Why should someone who is PAYE and earning £150k pay 45% but someone earning £millions not? Why is it morally right to have offshore financial mechanisms that allow the super rich to actually pay a smaller proportion of their income than basic rate tax payers?
You will just spin out absolute numbers again and I will continue to counter that NONE of these super rich people have earned their riches solely through their own efforts. It is morally right for the stronger in society to help the weak, the rich to help the poor. Your counter argument (TPA and Tufton St handbook) is morally bankrupt and purely based around an agenda driven by greed.
Everyone should pay the same proportion. Simple. Close all loopholes and drastically simplify the tax code in UK.
Better education, better healthcare, better housing ALL ultimately leads to better outcomes for society as a whole. It leads to lower crime levels, higher employment levels and better health all reducing welfare, healthcare and law enforcement costs for the state. However I do not think morals enter the equation or have any relevance. As things stand the Conservatives have an 80 seat majority so it can only be concluded that most people are happy with the help given to the less well off in society . The type of help required is probably non monetary so an obsession with taxation does not help . Reinforcement of family values and taking care of others is far more important. Many large plcs work in partnership with charities . B & Q assist Shelter and Tesco help local charities and foodbanks. Taxation is hardly the solution ,guidance and advice is .
A caring society is not the exclusive territory of the left. Not everyone wants to rely on the taxpayer to fund their needs. An excellent illustration of how caring we are is the funding of mobility vehicles. There are circa 500 000 on the road. Another example is housing benefit. Maybe instead of constantly suggesting people pay extra tax we should be monitoring who actually uses the various public services and are they all necessary.
I agree with your points about apathy among the electorate.
The interesting question is more about why. What is the reason that Conservative voters not only don't care that the government is ripping off British people, but actually champion them, and attack anyone who thinks we deserve better.
Don’t expect a straight answer because if you re-read many of the posts they are cut n paste carbon copies of what TPA and those in Tufton St have been trotting out for years. Almost verbatim. Makes you wonder and suspicious because social media is rife with bad actors.
As for why. Because the super wealthy control the narrative and have for years. It is all carefully worded to on the surface sound all so reasonable. That narrative permeates the majority of media which is, strangely enough, owned by the super wealthy.
Brexit proves that if you spend years sowing seeds and subtly twisting the truth you can ultimately achieve your aims. It is death by a thousand tiny little cuts. Is it though, do you think that only people who think like you are the ones that have not been manipulated by the media and somehow you are superior? how arrogant, everybody has a brain and are quite capable of working out for themselves what it is they want.I hear it all the time from people when things have not gone their way "it cant be me the majority must have been brainwashed" it seems also that the go to excuse for losers now is "its outside influence" even Imran Khan is getting on board with that one now he has been ousted."
What's your explaination for people voting against their own interests by voting leave in the brexit referendum? |
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"I don't see this as being jealous of his or her income, it's about the position he holds and the decisions he makes that effects the lives of just about everyone in the UK , while enjoying the perks of his position and more importantly.. his influence
I agree with this but in addition why do people think it’s ok for others to not pay tax when they do? Bizarre
Those who make excuses (generally “we would all do it”) mostly live in the hope that one day they too will join the 0.1% club and be able to game the system. It’s the same reason many people continue to vote Tory as if that party (as it stands now) remotely cares or helps anyone other than the very wealthy.
The rhetoric (as I said, proactively steered by Tufton St for years now) has been fully embedded in consciousness of anyone remotely right leaning to say “they earned it so they should keep it” or “in absolute terms the rich already pay the most” conveniently ignoring that the fairest system is just to charge everyone the same percentage of their income - ALL their income. I do not see many people saying that they hope to join the 0.1 % club to which you refer. Maybe people have enough common sense to realise that punitive or unnecessary taxation might just encourage those targeted to leave the country which means that the rest of us would be worse off and end up paying even more tax. If you attempt to match taxes paid to the amount of usage of each public service as per each individual I think you will find that the wealthy contribute many times over . It night just be that most members of the public believe that people should pay their own way in life and not be dependent on taxes paid by a comparatively small section of the population .
People vote Tory because they believe in justice and fairness . Hence the reason for an 80 seat majority at the last election
Explain how everyone paying the same proportion of tax is punitive? Why should someone who is PAYE and earning £150k pay 45% but someone earning £millions not? Why is it morally right to have offshore financial mechanisms that allow the super rich to actually pay a smaller proportion of their income than basic rate tax payers?
You will just spin out absolute numbers again and I will continue to counter that NONE of these super rich people have earned their riches solely through their own efforts. It is morally right for the stronger in society to help the weak, the rich to help the poor. Your counter argument (TPA and Tufton St handbook) is morally bankrupt and purely based around an agenda driven by greed.
Everyone should pay the same proportion. Simple. Close all loopholes and drastically simplify the tax code in UK.
Better education, better healthcare, better housing ALL ultimately leads to better outcomes for society as a whole. It leads to lower crime levels, higher employment levels and better health all reducing welfare, healthcare and law enforcement costs for the state. However I do not think morals enter the equation or have any relevance. As things stand the Conservatives have an 80 seat majority so it can only be concluded that most people are happy with the help given to the less well off in society . The type of help required is probably non monetary so an obsession with taxation does not help . Reinforcement of family values and taking care of others is far more important. Many large plcs work in partnership with charities . B & Q assist Shelter and Tesco help local charities and foodbanks. Taxation is hardly the solution ,guidance and advice is .
A caring society is not the exclusive territory of the left. Not everyone wants to rely on the taxpayer to fund their needs. An excellent illustration of how caring we are is the funding of mobility vehicles. There are circa 500 000 on the road. Another example is housing benefit. Maybe instead of constantly suggesting people pay extra tax we should be monitoring who actually uses the various public services and are they all necessary.
I agree with your points about apathy among the electorate.
The interesting question is more about why. What is the reason that Conservative voters not only don't care that the government is ripping off British people, but actually champion them, and attack anyone who thinks we deserve better.
Don’t expect a straight answer because if you re-read many of the posts they are cut n paste carbon copies of what TPA and those in Tufton St have been trotting out for years. Almost verbatim. Makes you wonder and suspicious because social media is rife with bad actors.
As for why. Because the super wealthy control the narrative and have for years. It is all carefully worded to on the surface sound all so reasonable. That narrative permeates the majority of media which is, strangely enough, owned by the super wealthy.
Brexit proves that if you spend years sowing seeds and subtly twisting the truth you can ultimately achieve your aims. It is death by a thousand tiny little cuts. Is it though, do you think that only people who think like you are the ones that have not been manipulated by the media and somehow you are superior? how arrogant, everybody has a brain and are quite capable of working out for themselves what it is they want.I hear it all the time from people when things have not gone their way "it cant be me the majority must have been brainwashed" it seems also that the go to excuse for losers now is "its outside influence" even Imran Khan is getting on board with that one now he has been ousted.
What's your explaination for people voting against their own interests by voting leave in the brexit referendum?"
Voting against their own interests? even a blind man could see uk exports to the eu were falling year on year roughly 10% every decade and so voted for the future we were going backwards while in the eu.Its not rocket science if your market is shrinking you go out an find other markets butit doesnt happen overnight and the worldwide situation with covid has not helped. |
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"I don't see this as being jealous of his or her income, it's about the position he holds and the decisions he makes that effects the lives of just about everyone in the UK , while enjoying the perks of his position and more importantly.. his influence
I agree with this but in addition why do people think it’s ok for others to not pay tax when they do? Bizarre
Those who make excuses (generally “we would all do it”) mostly live in the hope that one day they too will join the 0.1% club and be able to game the system. It’s the same reason many people continue to vote Tory as if that party (as it stands now) remotely cares or helps anyone other than the very wealthy.
The rhetoric (as I said, proactively steered by Tufton St for years now) has been fully embedded in consciousness of anyone remotely right leaning to say “they earned it so they should keep it” or “in absolute terms the rich already pay the most” conveniently ignoring that the fairest system is just to charge everyone the same percentage of their income - ALL their income. I do not see many people saying that they hope to join the 0.1 % club to which you refer. Maybe people have enough common sense to realise that punitive or unnecessary taxation might just encourage those targeted to leave the country which means that the rest of us would be worse off and end up paying even more tax. If you attempt to match taxes paid to the amount of usage of each public service as per each individual I think you will find that the wealthy contribute many times over . It night just be that most members of the public believe that people should pay their own way in life and not be dependent on taxes paid by a comparatively small section of the population .
People vote Tory because they believe in justice and fairness . Hence the reason for an 80 seat majority at the last election
Explain how everyone paying the same proportion of tax is punitive? Why should someone who is PAYE and earning £150k pay 45% but someone earning £millions not? Why is it morally right to have offshore financial mechanisms that allow the super rich to actually pay a smaller proportion of their income than basic rate tax payers?
You will just spin out absolute numbers again and I will continue to counter that NONE of these super rich people have earned their riches solely through their own efforts. It is morally right for the stronger in society to help the weak, the rich to help the poor. Your counter argument (TPA and Tufton St handbook) is morally bankrupt and purely based around an agenda driven by greed.
Everyone should pay the same proportion. Simple. Close all loopholes and drastically simplify the tax code in UK.
Better education, better healthcare, better housing ALL ultimately leads to better outcomes for society as a whole. It leads to lower crime levels, higher employment levels and better health all reducing welfare, healthcare and law enforcement costs for the state. However I do not think morals enter the equation or have any relevance. As things stand the Conservatives have an 80 seat majority so it can only be concluded that most people are happy with the help given to the less well off in society . The type of help required is probably non monetary so an obsession with taxation does not help . Reinforcement of family values and taking care of others is far more important. Many large plcs work in partnership with charities . B & Q assist Shelter and Tesco help local charities and foodbanks. Taxation is hardly the solution ,guidance and advice is .
A caring society is not the exclusive territory of the left. Not everyone wants to rely on the taxpayer to fund their needs. An excellent illustration of how caring we are is the funding of mobility vehicles. There are circa 500 000 on the road. Another example is housing benefit. Maybe instead of constantly suggesting people pay extra tax we should be monitoring who actually uses the various public services and are they all necessary.
I agree with your points about apathy among the electorate.
The interesting question is more about why. What is the reason that Conservative voters not only don't care that the government is ripping off British people, but actually champion them, and attack anyone who thinks we deserve better.
Don’t expect a straight answer because if you re-read many of the posts they are cut n paste carbon copies of what TPA and those in Tufton St have been trotting out for years. Almost verbatim. Makes you wonder and suspicious because social media is rife with bad actors.
As for why. Because the super wealthy control the narrative and have for years. It is all carefully worded to on the surface sound all so reasonable. That narrative permeates the majority of media which is, strangely enough, owned by the super wealthy.
Brexit proves that if you spend years sowing seeds and subtly twisting the truth you can ultimately achieve your aims. It is death by a thousand tiny little cuts. Is it though, do you think that only people who think like you are the ones that have not been manipulated by the media and somehow you are superior? how arrogant, everybody has a brain and are quite capable of working out for themselves what it is they want.I hear it all the time from people when things have not gone their way "it cant be me the majority must have been brainwashed" it seems also that the go to excuse for losers now is "its outside influence" even Imran Khan is getting on board with that one now he has been ousted.
What's your explaination for people voting against their own interests by voting leave in the brexit referendum?Voting against their own interests? even a blind man could see uk exports to the eu were falling year on year roughly 10% every decade and so voted for the future we were going backwards while in the eu.Its not rocket science if your market is shrinking you go out an find other markets butit doesnt happen overnight and the worldwide situation with covid has not helped. "
So your argument is that brexit is a good idea! Lol.
The discussion has completely left the realms of reality.
But the question could be, why do you believe that brexit is a good idea, despite the reality of brexit. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I don't see this as being jealous of his or her income, it's about the position he holds and the decisions he makes that effects the lives of just about everyone in the UK , while enjoying the perks of his position and more importantly.. his influence
I agree with this but in addition why do people think it’s ok for others to not pay tax when they do? Bizarre
Those who make excuses (generally “we would all do it”) mostly live in the hope that one day they too will join the 0.1% club and be able to game the system. It’s the same reason many people continue to vote Tory as if that party (as it stands now) remotely cares or helps anyone other than the very wealthy.
The rhetoric (as I said, proactively steered by Tufton St for years now) has been fully embedded in consciousness of anyone remotely right leaning to say “they earned it so they should keep it” or “in absolute terms the rich already pay the most” conveniently ignoring that the fairest system is just to charge everyone the same percentage of their income - ALL their income. I do not see many people saying that they hope to join the 0.1 % club to which you refer. Maybe people have enough common sense to realise that punitive or unnecessary taxation might just encourage those targeted to leave the country which means that the rest of us would be worse off and end up paying even more tax. If you attempt to match taxes paid to the amount of usage of each public service as per each individual I think you will find that the wealthy contribute many times over . It night just be that most members of the public believe that people should pay their own way in life and not be dependent on taxes paid by a comparatively small section of the population .
People vote Tory because they believe in justice and fairness . Hence the reason for an 80 seat majority at the last election
Explain how everyone paying the same proportion of tax is punitive? Why should someone who is PAYE and earning £150k pay 45% but someone earning £millions not? Why is it morally right to have offshore financial mechanisms that allow the super rich to actually pay a smaller proportion of their income than basic rate tax payers?
You will just spin out absolute numbers again and I will continue to counter that NONE of these super rich people have earned their riches solely through their own efforts. It is morally right for the stronger in society to help the weak, the rich to help the poor. Your counter argument (TPA and Tufton St handbook) is morally bankrupt and purely based around an agenda driven by greed.
Everyone should pay the same proportion. Simple. Close all loopholes and drastically simplify the tax code in UK.
Better education, better healthcare, better housing ALL ultimately leads to better outcomes for society as a whole. It leads to lower crime levels, higher employment levels and better health all reducing welfare, healthcare and law enforcement costs for the state. However I do not think morals enter the equation or have any relevance. As things stand the Conservatives have an 80 seat majority so it can only be concluded that most people are happy with the help given to the less well off in society . The type of help required is probably non monetary so an obsession with taxation does not help . Reinforcement of family values and taking care of others is far more important. Many large plcs work in partnership with charities . B & Q assist Shelter and Tesco help local charities and foodbanks. Taxation is hardly the solution ,guidance and advice is .
A caring society is not the exclusive territory of the left. Not everyone wants to rely on the taxpayer to fund their needs. An excellent illustration of how caring we are is the funding of mobility vehicles. There are circa 500 000 on the road. Another example is housing benefit. Maybe instead of constantly suggesting people pay extra tax we should be monitoring who actually uses the various public services and are they all necessary.
I agree with your points about apathy among the electorate.
The interesting question is more about why. What is the reason that Conservative voters not only don't care that the government is ripping off British people, but actually champion them, and attack anyone who thinks we deserve better.
Don’t expect a straight answer because if you re-read many of the posts they are cut n paste carbon copies of what TPA and those in Tufton St have been trotting out for years. Almost verbatim. Makes you wonder and suspicious because social media is rife with bad actors.
As for why. Because the super wealthy control the narrative and have for years. It is all carefully worded to on the surface sound all so reasonable. That narrative permeates the majority of media which is, strangely enough, owned by the super wealthy.
Brexit proves that if you spend years sowing seeds and subtly twisting the truth you can ultimately achieve your aims. It is death by a thousand tiny little cuts. Is it though, do you think that only people who think like you are the ones that have not been manipulated by the media and somehow you are superior? how arrogant, everybody has a brain and are quite capable of working out for themselves what it is they want.I hear it all the time from people when things have not gone their way "it cant be me the majority must have been brainwashed" it seems also that the go to excuse for losers now is "its outside influence" even Imran Khan is getting on board with that one now he has been ousted.
What's your explaination for people voting against their own interests by voting leave in the brexit referendum?Voting against their own interests? even a blind man could see uk exports to the eu were falling year on year roughly 10% every decade and so voted for the future we were going backwards while in the eu.Its not rocket science if your market is shrinking you go out an find other markets butit doesnt happen overnight and the worldwide situation with covid has not helped. "
do you mean a drop in share of a drop in absolute values ? |
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"I don't see this as being jealous of his or her income, it's about the position he holds and the decisions he makes that effects the lives of just about everyone in the UK , while enjoying the perks of his position and more importantly.. his influence
I agree with this but in addition why do people think it’s ok for others to not pay tax when they do? Bizarre
Those who make excuses (generally “we would all do it”) mostly live in the hope that one day they too will join the 0.1% club and be able to game the system. It’s the same reason many people continue to vote Tory as if that party (as it stands now) remotely cares or helps anyone other than the very wealthy.
The rhetoric (as I said, proactively steered by Tufton St for years now) has been fully embedded in consciousness of anyone remotely right leaning to say “they earned it so they should keep it” or “in absolute terms the rich already pay the most” conveniently ignoring that the fairest system is just to charge everyone the same percentage of their income - ALL their income. I do not see many people saying that they hope to join the 0.1 % club to which you refer. Maybe people have enough common sense to realise that punitive or unnecessary taxation might just encourage those targeted to leave the country which means that the rest of us would be worse off and end up paying even more tax. If you attempt to match taxes paid to the amount of usage of each public service as per each individual I think you will find that the wealthy contribute many times over . It night just be that most members of the public believe that people should pay their own way in life and not be dependent on taxes paid by a comparatively small section of the population .
People vote Tory because they believe in justice and fairness . Hence the reason for an 80 seat majority at the last election
Explain how everyone paying the same proportion of tax is punitive? Why should someone who is PAYE and earning £150k pay 45% but someone earning £millions not? Why is it morally right to have offshore financial mechanisms that allow the super rich to actually pay a smaller proportion of their income than basic rate tax payers?
You will just spin out absolute numbers again and I will continue to counter that NONE of these super rich people have earned their riches solely through their own efforts. It is morally right for the stronger in society to help the weak, the rich to help the poor. Your counter argument (TPA and Tufton St handbook) is morally bankrupt and purely based around an agenda driven by greed.
Everyone should pay the same proportion. Simple. Close all loopholes and drastically simplify the tax code in UK.
Better education, better healthcare, better housing ALL ultimately leads to better outcomes for society as a whole. It leads to lower crime levels, higher employment levels and better health all reducing welfare, healthcare and law enforcement costs for the state. However I do not think morals enter the equation or have any relevance. As things stand the Conservatives have an 80 seat majority so it can only be concluded that most people are happy with the help given to the less well off in society . The type of help required is probably non monetary so an obsession with taxation does not help . Reinforcement of family values and taking care of others is far more important. Many large plcs work in partnership with charities . B & Q assist Shelter and Tesco help local charities and foodbanks. Taxation is hardly the solution ,guidance and advice is .
A caring society is not the exclusive territory of the left. Not everyone wants to rely on the taxpayer to fund their needs. An excellent illustration of how caring we are is the funding of mobility vehicles. There are circa 500 000 on the road. Another example is housing benefit. Maybe instead of constantly suggesting people pay extra tax we should be monitoring who actually uses the various public services and are they all necessary.
I agree with your points about apathy among the electorate.
The interesting question is more about why. What is the reason that Conservative voters not only don't care that the government is ripping off British people, but actually champion them, and attack anyone who thinks we deserve better.
Don’t expect a straight answer because if you re-read many of the posts they are cut n paste carbon copies of what TPA and those in Tufton St have been trotting out for years. Almost verbatim. Makes you wonder and suspicious because social media is rife with bad actors.
As for why. Because the super wealthy control the narrative and have for years. It is all carefully worded to on the surface sound all so reasonable. That narrative permeates the majority of media which is, strangely enough, owned by the super wealthy.
Brexit proves that if you spend years sowing seeds and subtly twisting the truth you can ultimately achieve your aims. It is death by a thousand tiny little cuts. Is it though, do you think that only people who think like you are the ones that have not been manipulated by the media and somehow you are superior? how arrogant, everybody has a brain and are quite capable of working out for themselves what it is they want.I hear it all the time from people when things have not gone their way "it cant be me the majority must have been brainwashed" it seems also that the go to excuse for losers now is "its outside influence" even Imran Khan is getting on board with that one now he has been ousted."
. A lot of people appear to totally over emphasise the importance of social media and appear to be caught in a bubble . We also have the situations where people are too afraid to speak out because they are constantly being smeared at . The beauty of an election or a referendum is that it is in private and you do not have to justify your vote. This is where those who think that only their opinion counts get a shock and have to face reality. It is a touch ironic that the best argument they can puy up for losing is that people were manipulated. Such an argument is an insult to peoples intelligence . You make a very valid point. |
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"I don't see this as being jealous of his or her income, it's about the position he holds and the decisions he makes that effects the lives of just about everyone in the UK , while enjoying the perks of his position and more importantly.. his influence
I agree with this but in addition why do people think it’s ok for others to not pay tax when they do? Bizarre
Those who make excuses (generally “we would all do it”) mostly live in the hope that one day they too will join the 0.1% club and be able to game the system. It’s the same reason many people continue to vote Tory as if that party (as it stands now) remotely cares or helps anyone other than the very wealthy.
The rhetoric (as I said, proactively steered by Tufton St for years now) has been fully embedded in consciousness of anyone remotely right leaning to say “they earned it so they should keep it” or “in absolute terms the rich already pay the most” conveniently ignoring that the fairest system is just to charge everyone the same percentage of their income - ALL their income. I do not see many people saying that they hope to join the 0.1 % club to which you refer. Maybe people have enough common sense to realise that punitive or unnecessary taxation might just encourage those targeted to leave the country which means that the rest of us would be worse off and end up paying even more tax. If you attempt to match taxes paid to the amount of usage of each public service as per each individual I think you will find that the wealthy contribute many times over . It night just be that most members of the public believe that people should pay their own way in life and not be dependent on taxes paid by a comparatively small section of the population .
People vote Tory because they believe in justice and fairness . Hence the reason for an 80 seat majority at the last election
Explain how everyone paying the same proportion of tax is punitive? Why should someone who is PAYE and earning £150k pay 45% but someone earning £millions not? Why is it morally right to have offshore financial mechanisms that allow the super rich to actually pay a smaller proportion of their income than basic rate tax payers?
You will just spin out absolute numbers again and I will continue to counter that NONE of these super rich people have earned their riches solely through their own efforts. It is morally right for the stronger in society to help the weak, the rich to help the poor. Your counter argument (TPA and Tufton St handbook) is morally bankrupt and purely based around an agenda driven by greed.
Everyone should pay the same proportion. Simple. Close all loopholes and drastically simplify the tax code in UK.
Better education, better healthcare, better housing ALL ultimately leads to better outcomes for society as a whole. It leads to lower crime levels, higher employment levels and better health all reducing welfare, healthcare and law enforcement costs for the state. However I do not think morals enter the equation or have any relevance. As things stand the Conservatives have an 80 seat majority so it can only be concluded that most people are happy with the help given to the less well off in society . The type of help required is probably non monetary so an obsession with taxation does not help . Reinforcement of family values and taking care of others is far more important. Many large plcs work in partnership with charities . B & Q assist Shelter and Tesco help local charities and foodbanks. Taxation is hardly the solution ,guidance and advice is .
A caring society is not the exclusive territory of the left. Not everyone wants to rely on the taxpayer to fund their needs. An excellent illustration of how caring we are is the funding of mobility vehicles. There are circa 500 000 on the road. Another example is housing benefit. Maybe instead of constantly suggesting people pay extra tax we should be monitoring who actually uses the various public services and are they all necessary.
I agree with your points about apathy among the electorate.
The interesting question is more about why. What is the reason that Conservative voters not only don't care that the government is ripping off British people, but actually champion them, and attack anyone who thinks we deserve better.
Don’t expect a straight answer because if you re-read many of the posts they are cut n paste carbon copies of what TPA and those in Tufton St have been trotting out for years. Almost verbatim. Makes you wonder and suspicious because social media is rife with bad actors.
As for why. Because the super wealthy control the narrative and have for years. It is all carefully worded to on the surface sound all so reasonable. That narrative permeates the majority of media which is, strangely enough, owned by the super wealthy.
Brexit proves that if you spend years sowing seeds and subtly twisting the truth you can ultimately achieve your aims. It is death by a thousand tiny little cuts. Is it though, do you think that only people who think like you are the ones that have not been manipulated by the media and somehow you are superior? how arrogant, everybody has a brain and are quite capable of working out for themselves what it is they want.I hear it all the time from people when things have not gone their way "it cant be me the majority must have been brainwashed" it seems also that the go to excuse for losers now is "its outside influence" even Imran Khan is getting on board with that one now he has been ousted.
What's your explaination for people voting against their own interests by voting leave in the brexit referendum?Voting against their own interests? even a blind man could see uk exports to the eu were falling year on year roughly 10% every decade and so voted for the future we were going backwards while in the eu.Its not rocket science if your market is shrinking you go out an find other markets butit doesnt happen overnight and the worldwide situation with covid has not helped. do you mean a drop in share of a drop in absolute values ?"
values imports were constantly rising while exports shrinking its all there to see in the statistics. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I don't see this as being jealous of his or her income, it's about the position he holds and the decisions he makes that effects the lives of just about everyone in the UK , while enjoying the perks of his position and more importantly.. his influence
I agree with this but in addition why do people think it’s ok for others to not pay tax when they do? Bizarre
Those who make excuses (generally “we would all do it”) mostly live in the hope that one day they too will join the 0.1% club and be able to game the system. It’s the same reason many people continue to vote Tory as if that party (as it stands now) remotely cares or helps anyone other than the very wealthy.
The rhetoric (as I said, proactively steered by Tufton St for years now) has been fully embedded in consciousness of anyone remotely right leaning to say “they earned it so they should keep it” or “in absolute terms the rich already pay the most” conveniently ignoring that the fairest system is just to charge everyone the same percentage of their income - ALL their income. I do not see many people saying that they hope to join the 0.1 % club to which you refer. Maybe people have enough common sense to realise that punitive or unnecessary taxation might just encourage those targeted to leave the country which means that the rest of us would be worse off and end up paying even more tax. If you attempt to match taxes paid to the amount of usage of each public service as per each individual I think you will find that the wealthy contribute many times over . It night just be that most members of the public believe that people should pay their own way in life and not be dependent on taxes paid by a comparatively small section of the population .
People vote Tory because they believe in justice and fairness . Hence the reason for an 80 seat majority at the last election
Explain how everyone paying the same proportion of tax is punitive? Why should someone who is PAYE and earning £150k pay 45% but someone earning £millions not? Why is it morally right to have offshore financial mechanisms that allow the super rich to actually pay a smaller proportion of their income than basic rate tax payers?
You will just spin out absolute numbers again and I will continue to counter that NONE of these super rich people have earned their riches solely through their own efforts. It is morally right for the stronger in society to help the weak, the rich to help the poor. Your counter argument (TPA and Tufton St handbook) is morally bankrupt and purely based around an agenda driven by greed.
Everyone should pay the same proportion. Simple. Close all loopholes and drastically simplify the tax code in UK.
Better education, better healthcare, better housing ALL ultimately leads to better outcomes for society as a whole. It leads to lower crime levels, higher employment levels and better health all reducing welfare, healthcare and law enforcement costs for the state. However I do not think morals enter the equation or have any relevance. As things stand the Conservatives have an 80 seat majority so it can only be concluded that most people are happy with the help given to the less well off in society . The type of help required is probably non monetary so an obsession with taxation does not help . Reinforcement of family values and taking care of others is far more important. Many large plcs work in partnership with charities . B & Q assist Shelter and Tesco help local charities and foodbanks. Taxation is hardly the solution ,guidance and advice is .
A caring society is not the exclusive territory of the left. Not everyone wants to rely on the taxpayer to fund their needs. An excellent illustration of how caring we are is the funding of mobility vehicles. There are circa 500 000 on the road. Another example is housing benefit. Maybe instead of constantly suggesting people pay extra tax we should be monitoring who actually uses the various public services and are they all necessary.
I agree with your points about apathy among the electorate.
The interesting question is more about why. What is the reason that Conservative voters not only don't care that the government is ripping off British people, but actually champion them, and attack anyone who thinks we deserve better.
Don’t expect a straight answer because if you re-read many of the posts they are cut n paste carbon copies of what TPA and those in Tufton St have been trotting out for years. Almost verbatim. Makes you wonder and suspicious because social media is rife with bad actors.
As for why. Because the super wealthy control the narrative and have for years. It is all carefully worded to on the surface sound all so reasonable. That narrative permeates the majority of media which is, strangely enough, owned by the super wealthy.
Brexit proves that if you spend years sowing seeds and subtly twisting the truth you can ultimately achieve your aims. It is death by a thousand tiny little cuts. Is it though, do you think that only people who think like you are the ones that have not been manipulated by the media and somehow you are superior? how arrogant, everybody has a brain and are quite capable of working out for themselves what it is they want.I hear it all the time from people when things have not gone their way "it cant be me the majority must have been brainwashed" it seems also that the go to excuse for losers now is "its outside influence" even Imran Khan is getting on board with that one now he has been ousted.
What's your explaination for people voting against their own interests by voting leave in the brexit referendum?Voting against their own interests? even a blind man could see uk exports to the eu were falling year on year roughly 10% every decade and so voted for the future we were going backwards while in the eu.Its not rocket science if your market is shrinking you go out an find other markets butit doesnt happen overnight and the worldwide situation with covid has not helped. do you mean a drop in share of a drop in absolute values ?values imports were constantly rising while exports shrinking its all there to see in the statistics."
I agree its been falling since 2011. But was rising before then I believe. So every decade doesnt ring true. |
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or View forums list | |
"I don't see this as being jealous of his or her income, it's about the position he holds and the decisions he makes that effects the lives of just about everyone in the UK , while enjoying the perks of his position and more importantly.. his influence
I agree with this but in addition why do people think it’s ok for others to not pay tax when they do? Bizarre
Those who make excuses (generally “we would all do it”) mostly live in the hope that one day they too will join the 0.1% club and be able to game the system. It’s the same reason many people continue to vote Tory as if that party (as it stands now) remotely cares or helps anyone other than the very wealthy.
The rhetoric (as I said, proactively steered by Tufton St for years now) has been fully embedded in consciousness of anyone remotely right leaning to say “they earned it so they should keep it” or “in absolute terms the rich already pay the most” conveniently ignoring that the fairest system is just to charge everyone the same percentage of their income - ALL their income. I do not see many people saying that they hope to join the 0.1 % club to which you refer. Maybe people have enough common sense to realise that punitive or unnecessary taxation might just encourage those targeted to leave the country which means that the rest of us would be worse off and end up paying even more tax. If you attempt to match taxes paid to the amount of usage of each public service as per each individual I think you will find that the wealthy contribute many times over . It night just be that most members of the public believe that people should pay their own way in life and not be dependent on taxes paid by a comparatively small section of the population .
People vote Tory because they believe in justice and fairness . Hence the reason for an 80 seat majority at the last election
Explain how everyone paying the same proportion of tax is punitive? Why should someone who is PAYE and earning £150k pay 45% but someone earning £millions not? Why is it morally right to have offshore financial mechanisms that allow the super rich to actually pay a smaller proportion of their income than basic rate tax payers?
You will just spin out absolute numbers again and I will continue to counter that NONE of these super rich people have earned their riches solely through their own efforts. It is morally right for the stronger in society to help the weak, the rich to help the poor. Your counter argument (TPA and Tufton St handbook) is morally bankrupt and purely based around an agenda driven by greed.
Everyone should pay the same proportion. Simple. Close all loopholes and drastically simplify the tax code in UK.
Better education, better healthcare, better housing ALL ultimately leads to better outcomes for society as a whole. It leads to lower crime levels, higher employment levels and better health all reducing welfare, healthcare and law enforcement costs for the state. However I do not think morals enter the equation or have any relevance. As things stand the Conservatives have an 80 seat majority so it can only be concluded that most people are happy with the help given to the less well off in society . The type of help required is probably non monetary so an obsession with taxation does not help . Reinforcement of family values and taking care of others is far more important. Many large plcs work in partnership with charities . B & Q assist Shelter and Tesco help local charities and foodbanks. Taxation is hardly the solution ,guidance and advice is .
A caring society is not the exclusive territory of the left. Not everyone wants to rely on the taxpayer to fund their needs. An excellent illustration of how caring we are is the funding of mobility vehicles. There are circa 500 000 on the road. Another example is housing benefit. Maybe instead of constantly suggesting people pay extra tax we should be monitoring who actually uses the various public services and are they all necessary.
I agree with your points about apathy among the electorate.
The interesting question is more about why. What is the reason that Conservative voters not only don't care that the government is ripping off British people, but actually champion them, and attack anyone who thinks we deserve better.
Don’t expect a straight answer because if you re-read many of the posts they are cut n paste carbon copies of what TPA and those in Tufton St have been trotting out for years. Almost verbatim. Makes you wonder and suspicious because social media is rife with bad actors.
As for why. Because the super wealthy control the narrative and have for years. It is all carefully worded to on the surface sound all so reasonable. That narrative permeates the majority of media which is, strangely enough, owned by the super wealthy.
Brexit proves that if you spend years sowing seeds and subtly twisting the truth you can ultimately achieve your aims. It is death by a thousand tiny little cuts. Is it though, do you think that only people who think like you are the ones that have not been manipulated by the media and somehow you are superior? how arrogant, everybody has a brain and are quite capable of working out for themselves what it is they want.I hear it all the time from people when things have not gone their way "it cant be me the majority must have been brainwashed" it seems also that the go to excuse for losers now is "its outside influence" even Imran Khan is getting on board with that one now he has been ousted.
What's your explaination for people voting against their own interests by voting leave in the brexit referendum?Voting against their own interests? even a blind man could see uk exports to the eu were falling year on year roughly 10% every decade and so voted for the future we were going backwards while in the eu.Its not rocket science if your market is shrinking you go out an find other markets butit doesnt happen overnight and the worldwide situation with covid has not helped. do you mean a drop in share of a drop in absolute values ?values imports were constantly rising while exports shrinking its all there to see in the statistics."
So the logic here is, exports were dropping. So leave to make them drop more.
Amazing.
Still not getting anywhere with why people voted against their own interest. You seemed annoyed at the suggestion that the media played a role. |
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or View forums list | |
"I don't see this as being jealous of his or her income, it's about the position he holds and the decisions he makes that effects the lives of just about everyone in the UK , while enjoying the perks of his position and more importantly.. his influence
I agree with this but in addition why do people think it’s ok for others to not pay tax when they do? Bizarre
Those who make excuses (generally “we would all do it”) mostly live in the hope that one day they too will join the 0.1% club and be able to game the system. It’s the same reason many people continue to vote Tory as if that party (as it stands now) remotely cares or helps anyone other than the very wealthy.
The rhetoric (as I said, proactively steered by Tufton St for years now) has been fully embedded in consciousness of anyone remotely right leaning to say “they earned it so they should keep it” or “in absolute terms the rich already pay the most” conveniently ignoring that the fairest system is just to charge everyone the same percentage of their income - ALL their income. I do not see many people saying that they hope to join the 0.1 % club to which you refer. Maybe people have enough common sense to realise that punitive or unnecessary taxation might just encourage those targeted to leave the country which means that the rest of us would be worse off and end up paying even more tax. If you attempt to match taxes paid to the amount of usage of each public service as per each individual I think you will find that the wealthy contribute many times over . It night just be that most members of the public believe that people should pay their own way in life and not be dependent on taxes paid by a comparatively small section of the population .
People vote Tory because they believe in justice and fairness . Hence the reason for an 80 seat majority at the last election
Explain how everyone paying the same proportion of tax is punitive? Why should someone who is PAYE and earning £150k pay 45% but someone earning £millions not? Why is it morally right to have offshore financial mechanisms that allow the super rich to actually pay a smaller proportion of their income than basic rate tax payers?
You will just spin out absolute numbers again and I will continue to counter that NONE of these super rich people have earned their riches solely through their own efforts. It is morally right for the stronger in society to help the weak, the rich to help the poor. Your counter argument (TPA and Tufton St handbook) is morally bankrupt and purely based around an agenda driven by greed.
Everyone should pay the same proportion. Simple. Close all loopholes and drastically simplify the tax code in UK.
Better education, better healthcare, better housing ALL ultimately leads to better outcomes for society as a whole. It leads to lower crime levels, higher employment levels and better health all reducing welfare, healthcare and law enforcement costs for the state. However I do not think morals enter the equation or have any relevance. As things stand the Conservatives have an 80 seat majority so it can only be concluded that most people are happy with the help given to the less well off in society . The type of help required is probably non monetary so an obsession with taxation does not help . Reinforcement of family values and taking care of others is far more important. Many large plcs work in partnership with charities . B & Q assist Shelter and Tesco help local charities and foodbanks. Taxation is hardly the solution ,guidance and advice is .
A caring society is not the exclusive territory of the left. Not everyone wants to rely on the taxpayer to fund their needs. An excellent illustration of how caring we are is the funding of mobility vehicles. There are circa 500 000 on the road. Another example is housing benefit. Maybe instead of constantly suggesting people pay extra tax we should be monitoring who actually uses the various public services and are they all necessary.
I agree with your points about apathy among the electorate.
The interesting question is more about why. What is the reason that Conservative voters not only don't care that the government is ripping off British people, but actually champion them, and attack anyone who thinks we deserve better.
Don’t expect a straight answer because if you re-read many of the posts they are cut n paste carbon copies of what TPA and those in Tufton St have been trotting out for years. Almost verbatim. Makes you wonder and suspicious because social media is rife with bad actors.
As for why. Because the super wealthy control the narrative and have for years. It is all carefully worded to on the surface sound all so reasonable. That narrative permeates the majority of media which is, strangely enough, owned by the super wealthy.
Brexit proves that if you spend years sowing seeds and subtly twisting the truth you can ultimately achieve your aims. It is death by a thousand tiny little cuts. Is it though, do you think that only people who think like you are the ones that have not been manipulated by the media and somehow you are superior? how arrogant, everybody has a brain and are quite capable of working out for themselves what it is they want.I hear it all the time from people when things have not gone their way "it cant be me the majority must have been brainwashed" it seems also that the go to excuse for losers now is "its outside influence" even Imran Khan is getting on board with that one now he has been ousted.
What's your explaination for people voting against their own interests by voting leave in the brexit referendum?Voting against their own interests? even a blind man could see uk exports to the eu were falling year on year roughly 10% every decade and so voted for the future we were going backwards while in the eu.Its not rocket science if your market is shrinking you go out an find other markets butit doesnt happen overnight and the worldwide situation with covid has not helped. do you mean a drop in share of a drop in absolute values ?values imports were constantly rising while exports shrinking its all there to see in the statistics.
So the logic here is, exports were dropping. So leave to make them drop more.
Amazing.
Still not getting anywhere with why people voted against their own interest. You seemed annoyed at the suggestion that the media played a role."
yes us leavers where all conned there ya go happy now can you move on now it’s been a while ya know not good for your health to be still stressing over it |
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"I don't see this as being jealous of his or her income, it's about the position he holds and the decisions he makes that effects the lives of just about everyone in the UK , while enjoying the perks of his position and more importantly.. his influence
I agree with this but in addition why do people think it’s ok for others to not pay tax when they do? Bizarre
Those who make excuses (generally “we would all do it”) mostly live in the hope that one day they too will join the 0.1% club and be able to game the system. It’s the same reason many people continue to vote Tory as if that party (as it stands now) remotely cares or helps anyone other than the very wealthy.
The rhetoric (as I said, proactively steered by Tufton St for years now) has been fully embedded in consciousness of anyone remotely right leaning to say “they earned it so they should keep it” or “in absolute terms the rich already pay the most” conveniently ignoring that the fairest system is just to charge everyone the same percentage of their income - ALL their income. I do not see many people saying that they hope to join the 0.1 % club to which you refer. Maybe people have enough common sense to realise that punitive or unnecessary taxation might just encourage those targeted to leave the country which means that the rest of us would be worse off and end up paying even more tax. If you attempt to match taxes paid to the amount of usage of each public service as per each individual I think you will find that the wealthy contribute many times over . It night just be that most members of the public believe that people should pay their own way in life and not be dependent on taxes paid by a comparatively small section of the population .
People vote Tory because they believe in justice and fairness . Hence the reason for an 80 seat majority at the last election
Explain how everyone paying the same proportion of tax is punitive? Why should someone who is PAYE and earning £150k pay 45% but someone earning £millions not? Why is it morally right to have offshore financial mechanisms that allow the super rich to actually pay a smaller proportion of their income than basic rate tax payers?
You will just spin out absolute numbers again and I will continue to counter that NONE of these super rich people have earned their riches solely through their own efforts. It is morally right for the stronger in society to help the weak, the rich to help the poor. Your counter argument (TPA and Tufton St handbook) is morally bankrupt and purely based around an agenda driven by greed.
Everyone should pay the same proportion. Simple. Close all loopholes and drastically simplify the tax code in UK.
Better education, better healthcare, better housing ALL ultimately leads to better outcomes for society as a whole. It leads to lower crime levels, higher employment levels and better health all reducing welfare, healthcare and law enforcement costs for the state. However I do not think morals enter the equation or have any relevance. As things stand the Conservatives have an 80 seat majority so it can only be concluded that most people are happy with the help given to the less well off in society . The type of help required is probably non monetary so an obsession with taxation does not help . Reinforcement of family values and taking care of others is far more important. Many large plcs work in partnership with charities . B & Q assist Shelter and Tesco help local charities and foodbanks. Taxation is hardly the solution ,guidance and advice is .
A caring society is not the exclusive territory of the left. Not everyone wants to rely on the taxpayer to fund their needs. An excellent illustration of how caring we are is the funding of mobility vehicles. There are circa 500 000 on the road. Another example is housing benefit. Maybe instead of constantly suggesting people pay extra tax we should be monitoring who actually uses the various public services and are they all necessary.
I agree with your points about apathy among the electorate.
The interesting question is more about why. What is the reason that Conservative voters not only don't care that the government is ripping off British people, but actually champion them, and attack anyone who thinks we deserve better.
Don’t expect a straight answer because if you re-read many of the posts they are cut n paste carbon copies of what TPA and those in Tufton St have been trotting out for years. Almost verbatim. Makes you wonder and suspicious because social media is rife with bad actors.
As for why. Because the super wealthy control the narrative and have for years. It is all carefully worded to on the surface sound all so reasonable. That narrative permeates the majority of media which is, strangely enough, owned by the super wealthy.
Brexit proves that if you spend years sowing seeds and subtly twisting the truth you can ultimately achieve your aims. It is death by a thousand tiny little cuts. Is it though, do you think that only people who think like you are the ones that have not been manipulated by the media and somehow you are superior? how arrogant, everybody has a brain and are quite capable of working out for themselves what it is they want.I hear it all the time from people when things have not gone their way "it cant be me the majority must have been brainwashed" it seems also that the go to excuse for losers now is "its outside influence" even Imran Khan is getting on board with that one now he has been ousted.
What's your explaination for people voting against their own interests by voting leave in the brexit referendum?Voting against their own interests? even a blind man could see uk exports to the eu were falling year on year roughly 10% every decade and so voted for the future we were going backwards while in the eu.Its not rocket science if your market is shrinking you go out an find other markets butit doesnt happen overnight and the worldwide situation with covid has not helped. do you mean a drop in share of a drop in absolute values ?values imports were constantly rising while exports shrinking its all there to see in the statistics.
So the logic here is, exports were dropping. So leave to make them drop more.
Amazing.
Still not getting anywhere with why people voted against their own interest. You seemed annoyed at the suggestion that the media played a role.yes us leavers where all conned there ya go happy now can you move on now it’s been a while ya know not good for your health to be still stressing over it "
No stress here. It's just interesting to know why people voted against their own interests. For the benefit of a small number of billionaires.
If we don't learn anything from brexit. Next time there is a referendum over shooting ourselves in the foot or not, we might end up hobbling again. |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"I don't see this as being jealous of his or her income, it's about the position he holds and the decisions he makes that effects the lives of just about everyone in the UK , while enjoying the perks of his position and more importantly.. his influence
I agree with this but in addition why do people think it’s ok for others to not pay tax when they do? Bizarre
Those who make excuses (generally “we would all do it”) mostly live in the hope that one day they too will join the 0.1% club and be able to game the system. It’s the same reason many people continue to vote Tory as if that party (as it stands now) remotely cares or helps anyone other than the very wealthy.
The rhetoric (as I said, proactively steered by Tufton St for years now) has been fully embedded in consciousness of anyone remotely right leaning to say “they earned it so they should keep it” or “in absolute terms the rich already pay the most” conveniently ignoring that the fairest system is just to charge everyone the same percentage of their income - ALL their income. I do not see many people saying that they hope to join the 0.1 % club to which you refer. Maybe people have enough common sense to realise that punitive or unnecessary taxation might just encourage those targeted to leave the country which means that the rest of us would be worse off and end up paying even more tax. If you attempt to match taxes paid to the amount of usage of each public service as per each individual I think you will find that the wealthy contribute many times over . It night just be that most members of the public believe that people should pay their own way in life and not be dependent on taxes paid by a comparatively small section of the population .
People vote Tory because they believe in justice and fairness . Hence the reason for an 80 seat majority at the last election
Explain how everyone paying the same proportion of tax is punitive? Why should someone who is PAYE and earning £150k pay 45% but someone earning £millions not? Why is it morally right to have offshore financial mechanisms that allow the super rich to actually pay a smaller proportion of their income than basic rate tax payers?
You will just spin out absolute numbers again and I will continue to counter that NONE of these super rich people have earned their riches solely through their own efforts. It is morally right for the stronger in society to help the weak, the rich to help the poor. Your counter argument (TPA and Tufton St handbook) is morally bankrupt and purely based around an agenda driven by greed.
Everyone should pay the same proportion. Simple. Close all loopholes and drastically simplify the tax code in UK.
Better education, better healthcare, better housing ALL ultimately leads to better outcomes for society as a whole. It leads to lower crime levels, higher employment levels and better health all reducing welfare, healthcare and law enforcement costs for the state. However I do not think morals enter the equation or have any relevance. As things stand the Conservatives have an 80 seat majority so it can only be concluded that most people are happy with the help given to the less well off in society . The type of help required is probably non monetary so an obsession with taxation does not help . Reinforcement of family values and taking care of others is far more important. Many large plcs work in partnership with charities . B & Q assist Shelter and Tesco help local charities and foodbanks. Taxation is hardly the solution ,guidance and advice is .
A caring society is not the exclusive territory of the left. Not everyone wants to rely on the taxpayer to fund their needs. An excellent illustration of how caring we are is the funding of mobility vehicles. There are circa 500 000 on the road. Another example is housing benefit. Maybe instead of constantly suggesting people pay extra tax we should be monitoring who actually uses the various public services and are they all necessary.
I agree with your points about apathy among the electorate.
The interesting question is more about why. What is the reason that Conservative voters not only don't care that the government is ripping off British people, but actually champion them, and attack anyone who thinks we deserve better.
Don’t expect a straight answer because if you re-read many of the posts they are cut n paste carbon copies of what TPA and those in Tufton St have been trotting out for years. Almost verbatim. Makes you wonder and suspicious because social media is rife with bad actors.
As for why. Because the super wealthy control the narrative and have for years. It is all carefully worded to on the surface sound all so reasonable. That narrative permeates the majority of media which is, strangely enough, owned by the super wealthy.
Brexit proves that if you spend years sowing seeds and subtly twisting the truth you can ultimately achieve your aims. It is death by a thousand tiny little cuts. Is it though, do you think that only people who think like you are the ones that have not been manipulated by the media and somehow you are superior? how arrogant, everybody has a brain and are quite capable of working out for themselves what it is they want.I hear it all the time from people when things have not gone their way "it cant be me the majority must have been brainwashed" it seems also that the go to excuse for losers now is "its outside influence" even Imran Khan is getting on board with that one now he has been ousted.
What's your explaination for people voting against their own interests by voting leave in the brexit referendum?Voting against their own interests? even a blind man could see uk exports to the eu were falling year on year roughly 10% every decade and so voted for the future we were going backwards while in the eu.Its not rocket science if your market is shrinking you go out an find other markets butit doesnt happen overnight and the worldwide situation with covid has not helped. do you mean a drop in share of a drop in absolute values ?values imports were constantly rising while exports shrinking its all there to see in the statistics.
So the logic here is, exports were dropping. So leave to make them drop more.
Amazing.
Still not getting anywhere with why people voted against their own interest. You seemed annoyed at the suggestion that the media played a role.yes us leavers where all conned there ya go happy now can you move on now it’s been a while ya know not good for your health to be still stressing over it "
And therein lies the problem. The short attention span of the vast majority of the public.
The current Govt know this so they make promises and commitments then some time later when the focus has moved on, they quietly drop those commitments. Don’t believe me? Look into the commitment made to tackle MPs having second jobs and consultancies. BJ was going to tackle it right? Wrong. Quietly dropped a couple of weeks back while everyone was glued to the war in Ukraine.
Brexit was 30 yrs in the making. These people play the looooooong game. They don’t get bored. They just continuing seeding the narrative with ongoing subtle (and sometimes not subtle) criticism of the EU. It worked! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
I think there is a propensity for people who tend to be well off to have this mentality of thinking other people are "jealous" of their success and their opportunities.
Let me repeat this, its not envy, its good what you did, you took a chance it paid off.
However, be humble in the fact that the chances you were given were because of the collective benefits this country afforded you.
Therefore it is only fitting that you give this country its dues. It's not difficult, just declare what you earn, don't hide it, don't avoid it, just pay it forward.
It's not too late. |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
Steve Reid - Rishi Sunak did not declare that his wife was a non-dom and he made changes in the finance bill that benefited non-doms.
Infosys had 15 1-to-1 meetings with senior ministers, including the PM, & as a result of this they were awarded multi-million pound contracts.
And Sunak became an MP in 2015, Infosys has earned £493 million from public sector contracts in the UK. His wife got a dividend of about £11 million from it last year, but doesn't pay UK tax on that. In the last 2 years Infosys has been paid £71+ million by the taxpayer.
But nothing to see here!!!! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Steve Reid - Rishi Sunak did not declare that his wife was a non-dom and he made changes in the finance bill that benefited non-doms.
Infosys had 15 1-to-1 meetings with senior ministers, including the PM, & as a result of this they were awarded multi-million pound contracts.
And Sunak became an MP in 2015, Infosys has earned £493 million from public sector contracts in the UK. His wife got a dividend of about £11 million from it last year, but doesn't pay UK tax on that. In the last 2 years Infosys has been paid £71+ million by the taxpayer.
But nothing to see here!!!!"
being lazy... Whats the score on the first point?
Conflicts are the biggest issue for me here. |
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By *ackal1 OP Couple
over a year ago
Manchester |
For me it’s.
Conflicts. He’s in charge and she benefits.
Morals. Robbing the poorer in society through legally allowed means.
Fairness regarding tax. We should all pay the same percentage based on income however it is acquired.
|
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"For me it’s.
Conflicts. He’s in charge and she benefits.
Morals. Robbing the poorer in society through legally allowed means.
Fairness regarding tax. We should all pay the same percentage based on income however it is acquired.
"
Agreed.
Agreed in principle. I'm still squaring of if an Indian citizen who earns income in India from a company set up by her Indian gather should have to pay tax on the income here.
If I think that, is it okay for Lewis Hamilton to fuck off to Monaco to live and not pay taxes in the UK. He's benefited from UK money more.
I prefer higher percentages of tax going up. But you shouldn't be able to get to a point where you pay naff all. Personal or corporate. |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"For me it’s.
Conflicts. He’s in charge and she benefits.
Morals. Robbing the poorer in society through legally allowed means.
Fairness regarding tax. We should all pay the same percentage based on income however it is acquired.
Agreed.
Agreed in principle. I'm still squaring of if an Indian citizen who earns income in India from a company set up by her Indian gather should have to pay tax on the income here.
If I think that, is it okay for Lewis Hamilton to fuck off to Monaco to live and not pay taxes in the UK. He's benefited from UK money more.
I prefer higher percentages of tax going up. But you shouldn't be able to get to a point where you pay naff all. Personal or corporate. "
The point is she (like other very wealthy people) are permitted to pay HMRC an upfront £30k to register as Non-Dom and escape paying taxes on overseas income even though she is clearly living in the UK and running her businesses from the UK, educating her kids in the UK etc. So not a “non dom” in true sense of the word.
Making matters worse she also has her shares in Infosys held via an offshore (Mauritius) company dramatically reducing the level of tax she pays in India.
Her citizenship is irrelevant. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"For me it’s.
Conflicts. He’s in charge and she benefits.
Morals. Robbing the poorer in society through legally allowed means.
Fairness regarding tax. We should all pay the same percentage based on income however it is acquired.
Agreed.
Agreed in principle. I'm still squaring of if an Indian citizen who earns income in India from a company set up by her Indian gather should have to pay tax on the income here.
If I think that, is it okay for Lewis Hamilton to fuck off to Monaco to live and not pay taxes in the UK. He's benefited from UK money more.
I prefer higher percentages of tax going up. But you shouldn't be able to get to a point where you pay naff all. Personal or corporate.
The point is she (like other very wealthy people) are permitted to pay HMRC an upfront £30k to register as Non-Dom and escape paying taxes on overseas income even though she is clearly living in the UK and running her businesses from the UK, educating her kids in the UK etc. So not a “non dom” in true sense of the word.
Making matters worse she also has her shares in Infosys held via an offshore (Mauritius) company dramatically reducing the level of tax she pays in India.
Her citizenship is irrelevant."
but the £11m came from dividends. Not running a business.
She is clearly resident here. Given she also had a green card (I think) it's not clear her domicile is here.
I do wonder if she pays taxes in India on her dividends. That feels fairest to me. Pay back those who supported you. And Lewis can pay here
 |
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By *ackal1 OP Couple
over a year ago
Manchester |
"For me it’s.
Conflicts. He’s in charge and she benefits.
Morals. Robbing the poorer in society through legally allowed means.
Fairness regarding tax. We should all pay the same percentage based on income however it is acquired.
Agreed.
Agreed in principle. I'm still squaring of if an Indian citizen who earns income in India from a company set up by her Indian gather should have to pay tax on the income here.
If I think that, is it okay for Lewis Hamilton to fuck off to Monaco to live and not pay taxes in the UK. He's benefited from UK money more.
I prefer higher percentages of tax going up. But you shouldn't be able to get to a point where you pay naff all. Personal or corporate. "
On your first pint think about this,
She receives £11m through a tax free system offshore to India into her U.K. offshore or non Dom status. She buys a house through her non Taxable income in Belgravia for £10m not paying any stamp duty or tax (just like Tony Blair) . Now let’s assume that house increases in value by £5m over 15 years. She can then sell that house after making another £3m tax free because she is non Dom. Now apply that to her multiple houses and U.K. investments purchased through her offshore status.
Now look at a U.K. pensioner who pays tax on all his income as an employee through PAYE. His pension grows so when he retires he has a nice yearly payment. If it goes over £12k he will pay tax on the income over that amount and does not have a route to avoid any tax . If he has a valuable house inheritance tax is payable on that too., assuming he has not transferred ownership at least 7 years before his death. There is no tax payable if you are non Dom.
Lewis Hamilton would have been paid through an offshore agreement from the off so will have used the UK’s legal tax avoidance routes. Where he lived would have had little effect on his income as he would have used an offshore holding probably through a U.K. tax haven. If you are richer than a average you can avoid tax, the costs to do so make it worthwhile.
Rates as today
A low rate a higher rate and a top rate of 45% over £150 k . No limit on earnings but a maximum of 45% on all income whether PAYE or off shore payments to non taxable registered companies.
|
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"For me it’s.
Conflicts. He’s in charge and she benefits.
Morals. Robbing the poorer in society through legally allowed means.
Fairness regarding tax. We should all pay the same percentage based on income however it is acquired.
Agreed.
Agreed in principle. I'm still squaring of if an Indian citizen who earns income in India from a company set up by her Indian gather should have to pay tax on the income here.
If I think that, is it okay for Lewis Hamilton to fuck off to Monaco to live and not pay taxes in the UK. He's benefited from UK money more.
I prefer higher percentages of tax going up. But you shouldn't be able to get to a point where you pay naff all. Personal or corporate.
On your first pint think about this,
She receives £11m through a tax free system offshore to India into her U.K. offshore or non Dom status. She buys a house through her non Taxable income in Belgravia for £10m not paying any stamp duty or tax (just like Tony Blair) . Now let’s assume that house increases in value by £5m over 15 years. She can then sell that house after making another £3m tax free because she is non Dom. Now apply that to her multiple houses and U.K. investments purchased through her offshore status.
Now look at a U.K. pensioner who pays tax on all his income as an employee through PAYE. His pension grows so when he retires he has a nice yearly payment. If it goes over £12k he will pay tax on the income over that amount and does not have a route to avoid any tax . If he has a valuable house inheritance tax is payable on that too., assuming he has not transferred ownership at least 7 years before his death. There is no tax payable if you are non Dom.
Lewis Hamilton would have been paid through an offshore agreement from the off so will have used the UK’s legal tax avoidance routes. Where he lived would have had little effect on his income as he would have used an offshore holding probably through a U.K. tax haven. If you are richer than a average you can avoid tax, the costs to do so make it worthwhile.
Rates as today
A low rate a higher rate and a top rate of 45% over £150 k . No limit on earnings but a maximum of 45% on all income whether PAYE or off shore payments to non taxable registered companies.
"
no expert. But I thought gains made in the UK would be taxable as a UK Res. Unless bought by a offshore company. That's a different question to domicile.
I'm no fan of tax weezes. But I see tax as partly as being about a social contract between generations. And so I'd want her Indian income taxed in India. |
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By *ackal1 OP Couple
over a year ago
Manchester |
"For me it’s.
Conflicts. He’s in charge and she benefits.
Morals. Robbing the poorer in society through legally allowed means.
Fairness regarding tax. We should all pay the same percentage based on income however it is acquired.
Agreed.
Agreed in principle. I'm still squaring of if an Indian citizen who earns income in India from a company set up by her Indian gather should have to pay tax on the income here.
If I think that, is it okay for Lewis Hamilton to fuck off to Monaco to live and not pay taxes in the UK. He's benefited from UK money more.
I prefer higher percentages of tax going up. But you shouldn't be able to get to a point where you pay naff all. Personal or corporate.
On your first pint think about this,
She receives £11m through a tax free system offshore to India into her U.K. offshore or non Dom status. She buys a house through her non Taxable income in Belgravia for £10m not paying any stamp duty or tax (just like Tony Blair) . Now let’s assume that house increases in value by £5m over 15 years. She can then sell that house after making another £3m tax free because she is non Dom. Now apply that to her multiple houses and U.K. investments purchased through her offshore status.
Now look at a U.K. pensioner who pays tax on all his income as an employee through PAYE. His pension grows so when he retires he has a nice yearly payment. If it goes over £12k he will pay tax on the income over that amount and does not have a route to avoid any tax . If he has a valuable house inheritance tax is payable on that too., assuming he has not transferred ownership at least 7 years before his death. There is no tax payable if you are non Dom.
Lewis Hamilton would have been paid through an offshore agreement from the off so will have used the UK’s legal tax avoidance routes. Where he lived would have had little effect on his income as he would have used an offshore holding probably through a U.K. tax haven. If you are richer than a average you can avoid tax, the costs to do so make it worthwhile.
Rates as today
A low rate a higher rate and a top rate of 45% over £150 k . No limit on earnings but a maximum of 45% on all income whether PAYE or off shore payments to non taxable registered companies.
no expert. But I thought gains made in the UK would be taxable as a UK Res. Unless bought by a offshore company. That's a different question to domicile.
I'm no fan of tax weezes. But I see tax as partly as being about a social contract between generations. And so I'd want her Indian income taxed in India. "
The non domicile of her status is abused both here and in India as the family business is registered offshore in Mauritius, The fact she has-lived here for almost fifteen years , her children live and go to school here would make her a British citizen to all intense and purposes. The fact she avoids tax means she can use the offshore company to make gains on her U.K. property without having to register for tax in the U.K. So yes it’s probably an offshore company that owns her house you’re right but the gains are benefitting her through that arrangement in addition to non Dom. The non Dom fits nicely into avoiding capital gains and inheritance tax as your residency avoids any and all risks of paying tax. If a U.K. company gives a house to an employee to use but is not registered offshore the employee will pay the relevant benefit in kind tax.
Personally I think property related tax should be paid in full at the U.K. rates whether you are resident or not and whether you are buying it through an offshore company or not. I’ll repeat Tony Blair avoided £500k by buying his London house through an offshore company. I know they are separate but one benefits the other. It’s just another example of one rule for the rich and one for the plebs who blindly vote for it over and over.
It’s an archaic rule to protect the very wealthy which needs to be abolished. |
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"There are reports that tax experts have urged HMRC to investigate whether £4.3m in interest-free loans made by Chancellor Rishi Sunak’s wife to her venture capital firm broke the terms of her non-dom status.
In other (not reported in the) news...
Some 400,000 disabled people across England have been stripped of the right to free insulation that could bring down their heating bills, in a move quietly slipped out by the government on Friday."
. This applies to most applications. A new scheme will probably be realised shortly. |
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"I don't see this as being jealous of his or her income, it's about the position he holds and the decisions he makes that effects the lives of just about everyone in the UK , while enjoying the perks of his position and more importantly.. his influence
I agree with this but in addition why do people think it’s ok for others to not pay tax when they do? Bizarre
Those who make excuses (generally “we would all do it”) mostly live in the hope that one day they too will join the 0.1% club and be able to game the system. It’s the same reason many people continue to vote Tory as if that party (as it stands now) remotely cares or helps anyone other than the very wealthy.
The rhetoric (as I said, proactively steered by Tufton St for years now) has been fully embedded in consciousness of anyone remotely right leaning to say “they earned it so they should keep it” or “in absolute terms the rich already pay the most” conveniently ignoring that the fairest system is just to charge everyone the same percentage of their income - ALL their income. I do not see many people saying that they hope to join the 0.1 % club to which you refer. Maybe people have enough common sense to realise that punitive or unnecessary taxation might just encourage those targeted to leave the country which means that the rest of us would be worse off and end up paying even more tax. If you attempt to match taxes paid to the amount of usage of each public service as per each individual I think you will find that the wealthy contribute many times over . It night just be that most members of the public believe that people should pay their own way in life and not be dependent on taxes paid by a comparatively small section of the population .
People vote Tory because they believe in justice and fairness . Hence the reason for an 80 seat majority at the last election
Explain how everyone paying the same proportion of tax is punitive? Why should someone who is PAYE and earning £150k pay 45% but someone earning £millions not? Why is it morally right to have offshore financial mechanisms that allow the super rich to actually pay a smaller proportion of their income than basic rate tax payers?
You will just spin out absolute numbers again and I will continue to counter that NONE of these super rich people have earned their riches solely through their own efforts. It is morally right for the stronger in society to help the weak, the rich to help the poor. Your counter argument (TPA and Tufton St handbook) is morally bankrupt and purely based around an agenda driven by greed.
Everyone should pay the same proportion. Simple. Close all loopholes and drastically simplify the tax code in UK.
Better education, better healthcare, better housing ALL ultimately leads to better outcomes for society as a whole. It leads to lower crime levels, higher employment levels and better health all reducing welfare, healthcare and law enforcement costs for the state. However I do not think morals enter the equation or have any relevance. As things stand the Conservatives have an 80 seat majority so it can only be concluded that most people are happy with the help given to the less well off in society . The type of help required is probably non monetary so an obsession with taxation does not help . Reinforcement of family values and taking care of others is far more important. Many large plcs work in partnership with charities . B & Q assist Shelter and Tesco help local charities and foodbanks. Taxation is hardly the solution ,guidance and advice is .
A caring society is not the exclusive territory of the left. Not everyone wants to rely on the taxpayer to fund their needs. An excellent illustration of how caring we are is the funding of mobility vehicles. There are circa 500 000 on the road. Another example is housing benefit. Maybe instead of constantly suggesting people pay extra tax we should be monitoring who actually uses the various public services and are they all necessary.
The reason the Johnson led Government (I cannot even bring myself to really identify them as Conservatives as they are in reality a bunch of self serving disaster capitalist corrupt thieving proto-fascists that Thatcher would have expelled) is down to a just two issues:
1. Brexit*
2. Corbyn was pretty much unelectable
*a significant minority of the eligible electorate but sadly a slim majority of those who voted
Trying to reposition this as tacit support for the Government is laughable.
As for your mobility cars example (that you have used before) I note you didn’t address my earlier point on 400k disabled people who have now been denied previously promised help with home insulation at a time when energy bills have increased at least 54%. "
. Maybe many people have an entirely different view of the government than yours . Boris Johnson is an exceptionally talented individual , speaks six languages and has street appeal to most people. Perhaps the Conservstiveas won because their policies were the best for the future of the UK. Prior to pollng day every candidate will have presented their policies , the electorate will have evaluated them and voted accordingly. Few MPs can copy the success of Boris Johnson . Maybe the electorate have foresight and judgement. |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"I don't see this as being jealous of his or her income, it's about the position he holds and the decisions he makes that effects the lives of just about everyone in the UK , while enjoying the perks of his position and more importantly.. his influence
I agree with this but in addition why do people think it’s ok for others to not pay tax when they do? Bizarre
Those who make excuses (generally “we would all do it”) mostly live in the hope that one day they too will join the 0.1% club and be able to game the system. It’s the same reason many people continue to vote Tory as if that party (as it stands now) remotely cares or helps anyone other than the very wealthy.
The rhetoric (as I said, proactively steered by Tufton St for years now) has been fully embedded in consciousness of anyone remotely right leaning to say “they earned it so they should keep it” or “in absolute terms the rich already pay the most” conveniently ignoring that the fairest system is just to charge everyone the same percentage of their income - ALL their income. I do not see many people saying that they hope to join the 0.1 % club to which you refer. Maybe people have enough common sense to realise that punitive or unnecessary taxation might just encourage those targeted to leave the country which means that the rest of us would be worse off and end up paying even more tax. If you attempt to match taxes paid to the amount of usage of each public service as per each individual I think you will find that the wealthy contribute many times over . It night just be that most members of the public believe that people should pay their own way in life and not be dependent on taxes paid by a comparatively small section of the population .
People vote Tory because they believe in justice and fairness . Hence the reason for an 80 seat majority at the last election
Explain how everyone paying the same proportion of tax is punitive? Why should someone who is PAYE and earning £150k pay 45% but someone earning £millions not? Why is it morally right to have offshore financial mechanisms that allow the super rich to actually pay a smaller proportion of their income than basic rate tax payers?
You will just spin out absolute numbers again and I will continue to counter that NONE of these super rich people have earned their riches solely through their own efforts. It is morally right for the stronger in society to help the weak, the rich to help the poor. Your counter argument (TPA and Tufton St handbook) is morally bankrupt and purely based around an agenda driven by greed.
Everyone should pay the same proportion. Simple. Close all loopholes and drastically simplify the tax code in UK.
Better education, better healthcare, better housing ALL ultimately leads to better outcomes for society as a whole. It leads to lower crime levels, higher employment levels and better health all reducing welfare, healthcare and law enforcement costs for the state. However I do not think morals enter the equation or have any relevance. As things stand the Conservatives have an 80 seat majority so it can only be concluded that most people are happy with the help given to the less well off in society . The type of help required is probably non monetary so an obsession with taxation does not help . Reinforcement of family values and taking care of others is far more important. Many large plcs work in partnership with charities . B & Q assist Shelter and Tesco help local charities and foodbanks. Taxation is hardly the solution ,guidance and advice is .
A caring society is not the exclusive territory of the left. Not everyone wants to rely on the taxpayer to fund their needs. An excellent illustration of how caring we are is the funding of mobility vehicles. There are circa 500 000 on the road. Another example is housing benefit. Maybe instead of constantly suggesting people pay extra tax we should be monitoring who actually uses the various public services and are they all necessary.
The reason the Johnson led Government (I cannot even bring myself to really identify them as Conservatives as they are in reality a bunch of self serving disaster capitalist corrupt thieving proto-fascists that Thatcher would have expelled) is down to a just two issues:
1. Brexit*
2. Corbyn was pretty much unelectable
*a significant minority of the eligible electorate but sadly a slim majority of those who voted
Trying to reposition this as tacit support for the Government is laughable.
As for your mobility cars example (that you have used before) I note you didn’t address my earlier point on 400k disabled people who have now been denied previously promised help with home insulation at a time when energy bills have increased at least 54%. . Maybe many people have an entirely different view of the government than yours . Boris Johnson is an exceptionally talented individual , speaks six languages and has street appeal to most people. Perhaps the Conservstiveas won because their policies were the best for the future of the UK. Prior to pollng day every candidate will have presented their policies , the electorate will have evaluated them and voted accordingly. Few MPs can copy the success of Boris Johnson . Maybe the electorate have foresight and judgement. "
Comedy Gold right there 
Hope you’re being paid for this?
Was all about Brexit for a significant proportion. This has been widely reported and polled.
The sad state of affairs was that Corbyn was also unelectable and nobody bothers voting yellow! |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
The Sunak’s...think on this:
They both live in the U.K. She is domiciled in India where she does not own property but does intend to return there to look after her parents in the future. Def not to the US where she had a green card and promised to make it her forever home.
He on the other hand is domiciled in the U.K. which makes sense as he lives here. That’s despite promising to make the US his forever home. He intends to stay here and hopefully run the country even though his wife apparently does not have long term plans to stay.
So that is all clear as mud right?
What is also clear is that Mrs Sunak is an Infosys shareholder, and his father in law is the Infosys founder. And Infosys is a supplier to UK gov. Many British companies have outsourced a function to Infosys (offices in India) and many people in the UK lost their jobs as a result. Infosys's success is partly based on UK job losses. TOTAL CONFLICT OF INTEREST. |
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"I don't see this as being jealous of his or her income, it's about the position he holds and the decisions he makes that effects the lives of just about everyone in the UK , while enjoying the perks of his position and more importantly.. his influence
I agree with this but in addition why do people think it’s ok for others to not pay tax when they do? Bizarre
Those who make excuses (generally “we would all do it”) mostly live in the hope that one day they too will join the 0.1% club and be able to game the system. It’s the same reason many people continue to vote Tory as if that party (as it stands now) remotely cares or helps anyone other than the very wealthy.
The rhetoric (as I said, proactively steered by Tufton St for years now) has been fully embedded in consciousness of anyone remotely right leaning to say “they earned it so they should keep it” or “in absolute terms the rich already pay the most” conveniently ignoring that the fairest system is just to charge everyone the same percentage of their income - ALL their income. I do not see many people saying that they hope to join the 0.1 % club to which you refer. Maybe people have enough common sense to realise that punitive or unnecessary taxation might just encourage those targeted to leave the country which means that the rest of us would be worse off and end up paying even more tax. If you attempt to match taxes paid to the amount of usage of each public service as per each individual I think you will find that the wealthy contribute many times over . It night just be that most members of the public believe that people should pay their own way in life and not be dependent on taxes paid by a comparatively small section of the population .
People vote Tory because they believe in justice and fairness . Hence the reason for an 80 seat majority at the last election
Explain how everyone paying the same proportion of tax is punitive? Why should someone who is PAYE and earning £150k pay 45% but someone earning £millions not? Why is it morally right to have offshore financial mechanisms that allow the super rich to actually pay a smaller proportion of their income than basic rate tax payers?
You will just spin out absolute numbers again and I will continue to counter that NONE of these super rich people have earned their riches solely through their own efforts. It is morally right for the stronger in society to help the weak, the rich to help the poor. Your counter argument (TPA and Tufton St handbook) is morally bankrupt and purely based around an agenda driven by greed.
Everyone should pay the same proportion. Simple. Close all loopholes and drastically simplify the tax code in UK.
Better education, better healthcare, better housing ALL ultimately leads to better outcomes for society as a whole. It leads to lower crime levels, higher employment levels and better health all reducing welfare, healthcare and law enforcement costs for the state. However I do not think morals enter the equation or have any relevance. As things stand the Conservatives have an 80 seat majority so it can only be concluded that most people are happy with the help given to the less well off in society . The type of help required is probably non monetary so an obsession with taxation does not help . Reinforcement of family values and taking care of others is far more important. Many large plcs work in partnership with charities . B & Q assist Shelter and Tesco help local charities and foodbanks. Taxation is hardly the solution ,guidance and advice is .
A caring society is not the exclusive territory of the left. Not everyone wants to rely on the taxpayer to fund their needs. An excellent illustration of how caring we are is the funding of mobility vehicles. There are circa 500 000 on the road. Another example is housing benefit. Maybe instead of constantly suggesting people pay extra tax we should be monitoring who actually uses the various public services and are they all necessary.
The reason the Johnson led Government (I cannot even bring myself to really identify them as Conservatives as they are in reality a bunch of self serving disaster capitalist corrupt thieving proto-fascists that Thatcher would have expelled) is down to a just two issues:
1. Brexit*
2. Corbyn was pretty much unelectable
*a significant minority of the eligible electorate but sadly a slim majority of those who voted
Trying to reposition this as tacit support for the Government is laughable.
As for your mobility cars example (that you have used before) I note you didn’t address my earlier point on 400k disabled people who have now been denied previously promised help with home insulation at a time when energy bills have increased at least 54%. . Maybe many people have an entirely different view of the government than yours . Boris Johnson is an exceptionally talented individual , speaks six languages and has street appeal to most people. Perhaps the Conservstiveas won because their policies were the best for the future of the UK. Prior to pollng day every candidate will have presented their policies , the electorate will have evaluated them and voted accordingly. Few MPs can copy the success of Boris Johnson . Maybe the electorate have foresight and judgement. "
I agree once again, people do consistently vote Tory despite them fucking ove British people in favour of the rich friends.
The interesting question is, why? |
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"I don't see this as being jealous of his or her income, it's about the position he holds and the decisions he makes that effects the lives of just about everyone in the UK , while enjoying the perks of his position and more importantly.. his influence
I agree with this but in addition why do people think it’s ok for others to not pay tax when they do? Bizarre
Those who make excuses (generally “we would all do it”) mostly live in the hope that one day they too will join the 0.1% club and be able to game the system. It’s the same reason many people continue to vote Tory as if that party (as it stands now) remotely cares or helps anyone other than the very wealthy.
The rhetoric (as I said, proactively steered by Tufton St for years now) has been fully embedded in consciousness of anyone remotely right leaning to say “they earned it so they should keep it” or “in absolute terms the rich already pay the most” conveniently ignoring that the fairest system is just to charge everyone the same percentage of their income - ALL their income. I do not see many people saying that they hope to join the 0.1 % club to which you refer. Maybe people have enough common sense to realise that punitive or unnecessary taxation might just encourage those targeted to leave the country which means that the rest of us would be worse off and end up paying even more tax. If you attempt to match taxes paid to the amount of usage of each public service as per each individual I think you will find that the wealthy contribute many times over . It night just be that most members of the public believe that people should pay their own way in life and not be dependent on taxes paid by a comparatively small section of the population .
People vote Tory because they believe in justice and fairness . Hence the reason for an 80 seat majority at the last election
Explain how everyone paying the same proportion of tax is punitive? Why should someone who is PAYE and earning £150k pay 45% but someone earning £millions not? Why is it morally right to have offshore financial mechanisms that allow the super rich to actually pay a smaller proportion of their income than basic rate tax payers?
You will just spin out absolute numbers again and I will continue to counter that NONE of these super rich people have earned their riches solely through their own efforts. It is morally right for the stronger in society to help the weak, the rich to help the poor. Your counter argument (TPA and Tufton St handbook) is morally bankrupt and purely based around an agenda driven by greed.
Everyone should pay the same proportion. Simple. Close all loopholes and drastically simplify the tax code in UK.
Better education, better healthcare, better housing ALL ultimately leads to better outcomes for society as a whole. It leads to lower crime levels, higher employment levels and better health all reducing welfare, healthcare and law enforcement costs for the state. However I do not think morals enter the equation or have any relevance. As things stand the Conservatives have an 80 seat majority so it can only be concluded that most people are happy with the help given to the less well off in society . The type of help required is probably non monetary so an obsession with taxation does not help . Reinforcement of family values and taking care of others is far more important. Many large plcs work in partnership with charities . B & Q assist Shelter and Tesco help local charities and foodbanks. Taxation is hardly the solution ,guidance and advice is .
A caring society is not the exclusive territory of the left. Not everyone wants to rely on the taxpayer to fund their needs. An excellent illustration of how caring we are is the funding of mobility vehicles. There are circa 500 000 on the road. Another example is housing benefit. Maybe instead of constantly suggesting people pay extra tax we should be monitoring who actually uses the various public services and are they all necessary.
The reason the Johnson led Government (I cannot even bring myself to really identify them as Conservatives as they are in reality a bunch of self serving disaster capitalist corrupt thieving proto-fascists that Thatcher would have expelled) is down to a just two issues:
1. Brexit*
2. Corbyn was pretty much unelectable
*a significant minority of the eligible electorate but sadly a slim majority of those who voted
Trying to reposition this as tacit support for the Government is laughable.
As for your mobility cars example (that you have used before) I note you didn’t address my earlier point on 400k disabled people who have now been denied previously promised help with home insulation at a time when energy bills have increased at least 54%. . Maybe many people have an entirely different view of the government than yours . Boris Johnson is an exceptionally talented individual , speaks six languages and has street appeal to most people. Perhaps the Conservstiveas won because their policies were the best for the future of the UK. Prior to pollng day every candidate will have presented their policies , the electorate will have evaluated them and voted accordingly. Few MPs can copy the success of Boris Johnson . Maybe the electorate have foresight and judgement.
I agree once again, people do consistently vote Tory despite them fucking ove British people in favour of the rich friends.
The interesting question is, why?"
look at the opposition |
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|
By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
@Costafun in some ways I have sympathy when you say...
“look at the opposition”
Especially Corbyn led Labour.
What I would be interested to know is why dyed in the wool blue Tory voters (like yourself I think) honestly believe THIS Johnson led so called Tory Govt really is better for you and your family? What are the things that they stand for that make them more worthy of YOUR vote than the Starmer led Labour? |
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or View forums list | |
"I don't see this as being jealous of his or her income, it's about the position he holds and the decisions he makes that effects the lives of just about everyone in the UK , while enjoying the perks of his position and more importantly.. his influence
I agree with this but in addition why do people think it’s ok for others to not pay tax when they do? Bizarre
Those who make excuses (generally “we would all do it”) mostly live in the hope that one day they too will join the 0.1% club and be able to game the system. It’s the same reason many people continue to vote Tory as if that party (as it stands now) remotely cares or helps anyone other than the very wealthy.
The rhetoric (as I said, proactively steered by Tufton St for years now) has been fully embedded in consciousness of anyone remotely right leaning to say “they earned it so they should keep it” or “in absolute terms the rich already pay the most” conveniently ignoring that the fairest system is just to charge everyone the same percentage of their income - ALL their income. I do not see many people saying that they hope to join the 0.1 % club to which you refer. Maybe people have enough common sense to realise that punitive or unnecessary taxation might just encourage those targeted to leave the country which means that the rest of us would be worse off and end up paying even more tax. If you attempt to match taxes paid to the amount of usage of each public service as per each individual I think you will find that the wealthy contribute many times over . It night just be that most members of the public believe that people should pay their own way in life and not be dependent on taxes paid by a comparatively small section of the population .
People vote Tory because they believe in justice and fairness . Hence the reason for an 80 seat majority at the last election
Explain how everyone paying the same proportion of tax is punitive? Why should someone who is PAYE and earning £150k pay 45% but someone earning £millions not? Why is it morally right to have offshore financial mechanisms that allow the super rich to actually pay a smaller proportion of their income than basic rate tax payers?
You will just spin out absolute numbers again and I will continue to counter that NONE of these super rich people have earned their riches solely through their own efforts. It is morally right for the stronger in society to help the weak, the rich to help the poor. Your counter argument (TPA and Tufton St handbook) is morally bankrupt and purely based around an agenda driven by greed.
Everyone should pay the same proportion. Simple. Close all loopholes and drastically simplify the tax code in UK.
Better education, better healthcare, better housing ALL ultimately leads to better outcomes for society as a whole. It leads to lower crime levels, higher employment levels and better health all reducing welfare, healthcare and law enforcement costs for the state. However I do not think morals enter the equation or have any relevance. As things stand the Conservatives have an 80 seat majority so it can only be concluded that most people are happy with the help given to the less well off in society . The type of help required is probably non monetary so an obsession with taxation does not help . Reinforcement of family values and taking care of others is far more important. Many large plcs work in partnership with charities . B & Q assist Shelter and Tesco help local charities and foodbanks. Taxation is hardly the solution ,guidance and advice is .
A caring society is not the exclusive territory of the left. Not everyone wants to rely on the taxpayer to fund their needs. An excellent illustration of how caring we are is the funding of mobility vehicles. There are circa 500 000 on the road. Another example is housing benefit. Maybe instead of constantly suggesting people pay extra tax we should be monitoring who actually uses the various public services and are they all necessary.
The reason the Johnson led Government (I cannot even bring myself to really identify them as Conservatives as they are in reality a bunch of self serving disaster capitalist corrupt thieving proto-fascists that Thatcher would have expelled) is down to a just two issues:
1. Brexit*
2. Corbyn was pretty much unelectable
*a significant minority of the eligible electorate but sadly a slim majority of those who voted
Trying to reposition this as tacit support for the Government is laughable.
As for your mobility cars example (that you have used before) I note you didn’t address my earlier point on 400k disabled people who have now been denied previously promised help with home insulation at a time when energy bills have increased at least 54%. . Maybe many people have an entirely different view of the government than yours . Boris Johnson is an exceptionally talented individual , speaks six languages and has street appeal to most people. Perhaps the Conservstiveas won because their policies were the best for the future of the UK. Prior to pollng day every candidate will have presented their policies , the electorate will have evaluated them and voted accordingly. Few MPs can copy the success of Boris Johnson . Maybe the electorate have foresight and judgement.
I agree once again, people do consistently vote Tory despite them fucking ove British people in favour of the rich friends.
The interesting question is, why?look at the opposition "
Ah! So you think people have been convinced that any other party would be even more self serving and show even more contempt for British people? |
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|
By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"I don't see this as being jealous of his or her income, it's about the position he holds and the decisions he makes that effects the lives of just about everyone in the UK , while enjoying the perks of his position and more importantly.. his influence
I agree with this but in addition why do people think it’s ok for others to not pay tax when they do? Bizarre
Those who make excuses (generally “we would all do it”) mostly live in the hope that one day they too will join the 0.1% club and be able to game the system. It’s the same reason many people continue to vote Tory as if that party (as it stands now) remotely cares or helps anyone other than the very wealthy.
The rhetoric (as I said, proactively steered by Tufton St for years now) has been fully embedded in consciousness of anyone remotely right leaning to say “they earned it so they should keep it” or “in absolute terms the rich already pay the most” conveniently ignoring that the fairest system is just to charge everyone the same percentage of their income - ALL their income. I do not see many people saying that they hope to join the 0.1 % club to which you refer. Maybe people have enough common sense to realise that punitive or unnecessary taxation might just encourage those targeted to leave the country which means that the rest of us would be worse off and end up paying even more tax. If you attempt to match taxes paid to the amount of usage of each public service as per each individual I think you will find that the wealthy contribute many times over . It night just be that most members of the public believe that people should pay their own way in life and not be dependent on taxes paid by a comparatively small section of the population .
People vote Tory because they believe in justice and fairness . Hence the reason for an 80 seat majority at the last election
Explain how everyone paying the same proportion of tax is punitive? Why should someone who is PAYE and earning £150k pay 45% but someone earning £millions not? Why is it morally right to have offshore financial mechanisms that allow the super rich to actually pay a smaller proportion of their income than basic rate tax payers?
You will just spin out absolute numbers again and I will continue to counter that NONE of these super rich people have earned their riches solely through their own efforts. It is morally right for the stronger in society to help the weak, the rich to help the poor. Your counter argument (TPA and Tufton St handbook) is morally bankrupt and purely based around an agenda driven by greed.
Everyone should pay the same proportion. Simple. Close all loopholes and drastically simplify the tax code in UK.
Better education, better healthcare, better housing ALL ultimately leads to better outcomes for society as a whole. It leads to lower crime levels, higher employment levels and better health all reducing welfare, healthcare and law enforcement costs for the state. However I do not think morals enter the equation or have any relevance. As things stand the Conservatives have an 80 seat majority so it can only be concluded that most people are happy with the help given to the less well off in society . The type of help required is probably non monetary so an obsession with taxation does not help . Reinforcement of family values and taking care of others is far more important. Many large plcs work in partnership with charities . B & Q assist Shelter and Tesco help local charities and foodbanks. Taxation is hardly the solution ,guidance and advice is .
A caring society is not the exclusive territory of the left. Not everyone wants to rely on the taxpayer to fund their needs. An excellent illustration of how caring we are is the funding of mobility vehicles. There are circa 500 000 on the road. Another example is housing benefit. Maybe instead of constantly suggesting people pay extra tax we should be monitoring who actually uses the various public services and are they all necessary.
The reason the Johnson led Government (I cannot even bring myself to really identify them as Conservatives as they are in reality a bunch of self serving disaster capitalist corrupt thieving proto-fascists that Thatcher would have expelled) is down to a just two issues:
1. Brexit*
2. Corbyn was pretty much unelectable
*a significant minority of the eligible electorate but sadly a slim majority of those who voted
Trying to reposition this as tacit support for the Government is laughable.
As for your mobility cars example (that you have used before) I note you didn’t address my earlier point on 400k disabled people who have now been denied previously promised help with home insulation at a time when energy bills have increased at least 54%. . Maybe many people have an entirely different view of the government than yours . Boris Johnson is an exceptionally talented individual , speaks six languages and has street appeal to most people. Perhaps the Conservstiveas won because their policies were the best for the future of the UK. Prior to pollng day every candidate will have presented their policies , the electorate will have evaluated them and voted accordingly. Few MPs can copy the success of Boris Johnson . Maybe the electorate have foresight and judgement.
I agree once again, people do consistently vote Tory despite them fucking ove British people in favour of the rich friends.
The interesting question is, why?look at the opposition
Ah! So you think people have been convinced that any other party would be even more self serving and show even more contempt for British people?"
There you go again presuming what I think that’s not what I said try reading again.  |
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or View forums list | |
"I don't see this as being jealous of his or her income, it's about the position he holds and the decisions he makes that effects the lives of just about everyone in the UK , while enjoying the perks of his position and more importantly.. his influence
I agree with this but in addition why do people think it’s ok for others to not pay tax when they do? Bizarre
Those who make excuses (generally “we would all do it”) mostly live in the hope that one day they too will join the 0.1% club and be able to game the system. It’s the same reason many people continue to vote Tory as if that party (as it stands now) remotely cares or helps anyone other than the very wealthy.
The rhetoric (as I said, proactively steered by Tufton St for years now) has been fully embedded in consciousness of anyone remotely right leaning to say “they earned it so they should keep it” or “in absolute terms the rich already pay the most” conveniently ignoring that the fairest system is just to charge everyone the same percentage of their income - ALL their income. I do not see many people saying that they hope to join the 0.1 % club to which you refer. Maybe people have enough common sense to realise that punitive or unnecessary taxation might just encourage those targeted to leave the country which means that the rest of us would be worse off and end up paying even more tax. If you attempt to match taxes paid to the amount of usage of each public service as per each individual I think you will find that the wealthy contribute many times over . It night just be that most members of the public believe that people should pay their own way in life and not be dependent on taxes paid by a comparatively small section of the population .
People vote Tory because they believe in justice and fairness . Hence the reason for an 80 seat majority at the last election
Explain how everyone paying the same proportion of tax is punitive? Why should someone who is PAYE and earning £150k pay 45% but someone earning £millions not? Why is it morally right to have offshore financial mechanisms that allow the super rich to actually pay a smaller proportion of their income than basic rate tax payers?
You will just spin out absolute numbers again and I will continue to counter that NONE of these super rich people have earned their riches solely through their own efforts. It is morally right for the stronger in society to help the weak, the rich to help the poor. Your counter argument (TPA and Tufton St handbook) is morally bankrupt and purely based around an agenda driven by greed.
Everyone should pay the same proportion. Simple. Close all loopholes and drastically simplify the tax code in UK.
Better education, better healthcare, better housing ALL ultimately leads to better outcomes for society as a whole. It leads to lower crime levels, higher employment levels and better health all reducing welfare, healthcare and law enforcement costs for the state. However I do not think morals enter the equation or have any relevance. As things stand the Conservatives have an 80 seat majority so it can only be concluded that most people are happy with the help given to the less well off in society . The type of help required is probably non monetary so an obsession with taxation does not help . Reinforcement of family values and taking care of others is far more important. Many large plcs work in partnership with charities . B & Q assist Shelter and Tesco help local charities and foodbanks. Taxation is hardly the solution ,guidance and advice is .
A caring society is not the exclusive territory of the left. Not everyone wants to rely on the taxpayer to fund their needs. An excellent illustration of how caring we are is the funding of mobility vehicles. There are circa 500 000 on the road. Another example is housing benefit. Maybe instead of constantly suggesting people pay extra tax we should be monitoring who actually uses the various public services and are they all necessary.
The reason the Johnson led Government (I cannot even bring myself to really identify them as Conservatives as they are in reality a bunch of self serving disaster capitalist corrupt thieving proto-fascists that Thatcher would have expelled) is down to a just two issues:
1. Brexit*
2. Corbyn was pretty much unelectable
*a significant minority of the eligible electorate but sadly a slim majority of those who voted
Trying to reposition this as tacit support for the Government is laughable.
As for your mobility cars example (that you have used before) I note you didn’t address my earlier point on 400k disabled people who have now been denied previously promised help with home insulation at a time when energy bills have increased at least 54%. . Maybe many people have an entirely different view of the government than yours . Boris Johnson is an exceptionally talented individual , speaks six languages and has street appeal to most people. Perhaps the Conservstiveas won because their policies were the best for the future of the UK. Prior to pollng day every candidate will have presented their policies , the electorate will have evaluated them and voted accordingly. Few MPs can copy the success of Boris Johnson . Maybe the electorate have foresight and judgement.
I agree once again, people do consistently vote Tory despite them fucking ove British people in favour of the rich friends.
The interesting question is, why?look at the opposition
Ah! So you think people have been convinced that any other party would be even more self serving and show even more contempt for British people?There you go again presuming what I think that’s not what I said try reading again. "
It's called a conversation, I asked you a question. This is a fairly normal way of communicating.
Anyway, it's a sad state of affairs if people can't even imagine a government less shit than Boris's Tories. |
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|
By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"I don't see this as being jealous of his or her income, it's about the position he holds and the decisions he makes that effects the lives of just about everyone in the UK , while enjoying the perks of his position and more importantly.. his influence
I agree with this but in addition why do people think it’s ok for others to not pay tax when they do? Bizarre
Those who make excuses (generally “we would all do it”) mostly live in the hope that one day they too will join the 0.1% club and be able to game the system. It’s the same reason many people continue to vote Tory as if that party (as it stands now) remotely cares or helps anyone other than the very wealthy.
The rhetoric (as I said, proactively steered by Tufton St for years now) has been fully embedded in consciousness of anyone remotely right leaning to say “they earned it so they should keep it” or “in absolute terms the rich already pay the most” conveniently ignoring that the fairest system is just to charge everyone the same percentage of their income - ALL their income. I do not see many people saying that they hope to join the 0.1 % club to which you refer. Maybe people have enough common sense to realise that punitive or unnecessary taxation might just encourage those targeted to leave the country which means that the rest of us would be worse off and end up paying even more tax. If you attempt to match taxes paid to the amount of usage of each public service as per each individual I think you will find that the wealthy contribute many times over . It night just be that most members of the public believe that people should pay their own way in life and not be dependent on taxes paid by a comparatively small section of the population .
People vote Tory because they believe in justice and fairness . Hence the reason for an 80 seat majority at the last election
Explain how everyone paying the same proportion of tax is punitive? Why should someone who is PAYE and earning £150k pay 45% but someone earning £millions not? Why is it morally right to have offshore financial mechanisms that allow the super rich to actually pay a smaller proportion of their income than basic rate tax payers?
You will just spin out absolute numbers again and I will continue to counter that NONE of these super rich people have earned their riches solely through their own efforts. It is morally right for the stronger in society to help the weak, the rich to help the poor. Your counter argument (TPA and Tufton St handbook) is morally bankrupt and purely based around an agenda driven by greed.
Everyone should pay the same proportion. Simple. Close all loopholes and drastically simplify the tax code in UK.
Better education, better healthcare, better housing ALL ultimately leads to better outcomes for society as a whole. It leads to lower crime levels, higher employment levels and better health all reducing welfare, healthcare and law enforcement costs for the state. However I do not think morals enter the equation or have any relevance. As things stand the Conservatives have an 80 seat majority so it can only be concluded that most people are happy with the help given to the less well off in society . The type of help required is probably non monetary so an obsession with taxation does not help . Reinforcement of family values and taking care of others is far more important. Many large plcs work in partnership with charities . B & Q assist Shelter and Tesco help local charities and foodbanks. Taxation is hardly the solution ,guidance and advice is .
A caring society is not the exclusive territory of the left. Not everyone wants to rely on the taxpayer to fund their needs. An excellent illustration of how caring we are is the funding of mobility vehicles. There are circa 500 000 on the road. Another example is housing benefit. Maybe instead of constantly suggesting people pay extra tax we should be monitoring who actually uses the various public services and are they all necessary.
The reason the Johnson led Government (I cannot even bring myself to really identify them as Conservatives as they are in reality a bunch of self serving disaster capitalist corrupt thieving proto-fascists that Thatcher would have expelled) is down to a just two issues:
1. Brexit*
2. Corbyn was pretty much unelectable
*a significant minority of the eligible electorate but sadly a slim majority of those who voted
Trying to reposition this as tacit support for the Government is laughable.
As for your mobility cars example (that you have used before) I note you didn’t address my earlier point on 400k disabled people who have now been denied previously promised help with home insulation at a time when energy bills have increased at least 54%. . Maybe many people have an entirely different view of the government than yours . Boris Johnson is an exceptionally talented individual , speaks six languages and has street appeal to most people. Perhaps the Conservstiveas won because their policies were the best for the future of the UK. Prior to pollng day every candidate will have presented their policies , the electorate will have evaluated them and voted accordingly. Few MPs can copy the success of Boris Johnson . Maybe the electorate have foresight and judgement.
I agree once again, people do consistently vote Tory despite them fucking ove British people in favour of the rich friends.
The interesting question is, why?look at the opposition
Ah! So you think people have been convinced that any other party would be even more self serving and show even more contempt for British people?There you go again presuming what I think that’s not what I said try reading again.
It's called a conversation, I asked you a question. This is a fairly normal way of communicating.
Anyway, it's a sad state of affairs if people can't even imagine a government less shit than Boris's Tories."
Thats up to the opposition to convince the public. I have no idea what they stand for as they never say,they are convinced they can win by just slagging off the current mob. |
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or View forums list | |
"I don't see this as being jealous of his or her income, it's about the position he holds and the decisions he makes that effects the lives of just about everyone in the UK , while enjoying the perks of his position and more importantly.. his influence
I agree with this but in addition why do people think it’s ok for others to not pay tax when they do? Bizarre
Those who make excuses (generally “we would all do it”) mostly live in the hope that one day they too will join the 0.1% club and be able to game the system. It’s the same reason many people continue to vote Tory as if that party (as it stands now) remotely cares or helps anyone other than the very wealthy.
The rhetoric (as I said, proactively steered by Tufton St for years now) has been fully embedded in consciousness of anyone remotely right leaning to say “they earned it so they should keep it” or “in absolute terms the rich already pay the most” conveniently ignoring that the fairest system is just to charge everyone the same percentage of their income - ALL their income. I do not see many people saying that they hope to join the 0.1 % club to which you refer. Maybe people have enough common sense to realise that punitive or unnecessary taxation might just encourage those targeted to leave the country which means that the rest of us would be worse off and end up paying even more tax. If you attempt to match taxes paid to the amount of usage of each public service as per each individual I think you will find that the wealthy contribute many times over . It night just be that most members of the public believe that people should pay their own way in life and not be dependent on taxes paid by a comparatively small section of the population .
People vote Tory because they believe in justice and fairness . Hence the reason for an 80 seat majority at the last election
Explain how everyone paying the same proportion of tax is punitive? Why should someone who is PAYE and earning £150k pay 45% but someone earning £millions not? Why is it morally right to have offshore financial mechanisms that allow the super rich to actually pay a smaller proportion of their income than basic rate tax payers?
You will just spin out absolute numbers again and I will continue to counter that NONE of these super rich people have earned their riches solely through their own efforts. It is morally right for the stronger in society to help the weak, the rich to help the poor. Your counter argument (TPA and Tufton St handbook) is morally bankrupt and purely based around an agenda driven by greed.
Everyone should pay the same proportion. Simple. Close all loopholes and drastically simplify the tax code in UK.
Better education, better healthcare, better housing ALL ultimately leads to better outcomes for society as a whole. It leads to lower crime levels, higher employment levels and better health all reducing welfare, healthcare and law enforcement costs for the state. However I do not think morals enter the equation or have any relevance. As things stand the Conservatives have an 80 seat majority so it can only be concluded that most people are happy with the help given to the less well off in society . The type of help required is probably non monetary so an obsession with taxation does not help . Reinforcement of family values and taking care of others is far more important. Many large plcs work in partnership with charities . B & Q assist Shelter and Tesco help local charities and foodbanks. Taxation is hardly the solution ,guidance and advice is .
A caring society is not the exclusive territory of the left. Not everyone wants to rely on the taxpayer to fund their needs. An excellent illustration of how caring we are is the funding of mobility vehicles. There are circa 500 000 on the road. Another example is housing benefit. Maybe instead of constantly suggesting people pay extra tax we should be monitoring who actually uses the various public services and are they all necessary.
The reason the Johnson led Government (I cannot even bring myself to really identify them as Conservatives as they are in reality a bunch of self serving disaster capitalist corrupt thieving proto-fascists that Thatcher would have expelled) is down to a just two issues:
1. Brexit*
2. Corbyn was pretty much unelectable
*a significant minority of the eligible electorate but sadly a slim majority of those who voted
Trying to reposition this as tacit support for the Government is laughable.
As for your mobility cars example (that you have used before) I note you didn’t address my earlier point on 400k disabled people who have now been denied previously promised help with home insulation at a time when energy bills have increased at least 54%. . Maybe many people have an entirely different view of the government than yours . Boris Johnson is an exceptionally talented individual , speaks six languages and has street appeal to most people. Perhaps the Conservstiveas won because their policies were the best for the future of the UK. Prior to pollng day every candidate will have presented their policies , the electorate will have evaluated them and voted accordingly. Few MPs can copy the success of Boris Johnson . Maybe the electorate have foresight and judgement.
I agree once again, people do consistently vote Tory despite them fucking ove British people in favour of the rich friends.
The interesting question is, why?look at the opposition
Ah! So you think people have been convinced that any other party would be even more self serving and show even more contempt for British people?There you go again presuming what I think that’s not what I said try reading again.
It's called a conversation, I asked you a question. This is a fairly normal way of communicating.
Anyway, it's a sad state of affairs if people can't even imagine a government less shit than Boris's Tories.Thats up to the opposition to convince the public. I have no idea what they stand for as they never say,they are convinced they can win by just slagging off the current mob."
In fairness. That's a pretty piss poor excuse for the public supporting such a horrifically self servicing government.
There are other options, voting for a party that actually has something good to offer, abstaining from voting etc etc. There's more than just Blue and Red to vote for. |
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or View forums list | |
"For me it’s.
Conflicts. He’s in charge and she benefits.
Morals. Robbing the poorer in society through legally allowed means.
Fairness regarding tax. We should all pay the same percentage based on income however it is acquired.
Agreed.
Agreed in principle. I'm still squaring of if an Indian citizen who earns income in India from a company set up by her Indian gather should have to pay tax on the income here.
If I think that, is it okay for Lewis Hamilton to fuck off to Monaco to live and not pay taxes in the UK. He's benefited from UK money more.
I prefer higher percentages of tax going up. But you shouldn't be able to get to a point where you pay naff all. Personal or corporate.
On your first pint think about this,
She receives £11m through a tax free system offshore to India into her U.K. offshore or non Dom status. She buys a house through her non Taxable income in Belgravia for £10m not paying any stamp duty or tax (just like Tony Blair) . Now let’s assume that house increases in value by £5m over 15 years. She can then sell that house after making another £3m tax free because she is non Dom. Now apply that to her multiple houses and U.K. investments purchased through her offshore status.
Now look at a U.K. pensioner who pays tax on all his income as an employee through PAYE. His pension grows so when he retires he has a nice yearly payment. If it goes over £12k he will pay tax on the income over that amount and does not have a route to avoid any tax . If he has a valuable house inheritance tax is payable on that too., assuming he has not transferred ownership at least 7 years before his death. There is no tax payable if you are non Dom.
Lewis Hamilton would have been paid through an offshore agreement from the off so will have used the UK’s legal tax avoidance routes. Where he lived would have had little effect on his income as he would have used an offshore holding probably through a U.K. tax haven. If you are richer than a average you can avoid tax, the costs to do so make it worthwhile.
Rates as today
A low rate a higher rate and a top rate of 45% over £150 k . No limit on earnings but a maximum of 45% on all income whether PAYE or off shore payments to non taxable registered companies.
no expert. But I thought gains made in the UK would be taxable as a UK Res. Unless bought by a offshore company. That's a different question to domicile.
I'm no fan of tax weezes. But I see tax as partly as being about a social contract between generations. And so I'd want her Indian income taxed in India.
The non domicile of her status is abused both here and in India as the family business is registered offshore in Mauritius, The fact she has-lived here for almost fifteen years , her children live and go to school here would make her a British citizen to all intense and purposes. The fact she avoids tax means she can use the offshore company to make gains on her U.K. property without having to register for tax in the U.K. So yes it’s probably an offshore company that owns her house you’re right but the gains are benefitting her through that arrangement in addition to non Dom. The non Dom fits nicely into avoiding capital gains and inheritance tax as your residency avoids any and all risks of paying tax. If a U.K. company gives a house to an employee to use but is not registered offshore the employee will pay the relevant benefit in kind tax.
Personally I think property related tax should be paid in full at the U.K. rates whether you are resident or not and whether you are buying it through an offshore company or not. I’ll repeat Tony Blair avoided £500k by buying his London house through an offshore company. I know they are separate but one benefits the other. It’s just another example of one rule for the rich and one for the plebs who blindly vote for it over and over.
It’s an archaic rule to protect the very wealthy which needs to be abolished. "
too fucking right it does mate it makes my piss boil how in 2021 does this go on ffs |
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"I don't see this as being jealous of his or her income, it's about the position he holds and the decisions he makes that effects the lives of just about everyone in the UK , while enjoying the perks of his position and more importantly.. his influence
I agree with this but in addition why do people think it’s ok for others to not pay tax when they do? Bizarre
Those who make excuses (generally “we would all do it”) mostly live in the hope that one day they too will join the 0.1% club and be able to game the system. It’s the same reason many people continue to vote Tory as if that party (as it stands now) remotely cares or helps anyone other than the very wealthy.
The rhetoric (as I said, proactively steered by Tufton St for years now) has been fully embedded in consciousness of anyone remotely right leaning to say “they earned it so they should keep it” or “in absolute terms the rich already pay the most” conveniently ignoring that the fairest system is just to charge everyone the same percentage of their income - ALL their income. I do not see many people saying that they hope to join the 0.1 % club to which you refer. Maybe people have enough common sense to realise that punitive or unnecessary taxation might just encourage those targeted to leave the country which means that the rest of us would be worse off and end up paying even more tax. If you attempt to match taxes paid to the amount of usage of each public service as per each individual I think you will find that the wealthy contribute many times over . It night just be that most members of the public believe that people should pay their own way in life and not be dependent on taxes paid by a comparatively small section of the population .
People vote Tory because they believe in justice and fairness . Hence the reason for an 80 seat majority at the last election
Explain how everyone paying the same proportion of tax is punitive? Why should someone who is PAYE and earning £150k pay 45% but someone earning £millions not? Why is it morally right to have offshore financial mechanisms that allow the super rich to actually pay a smaller proportion of their income than basic rate tax payers?
You will just spin out absolute numbers again and I will continue to counter that NONE of these super rich people have earned their riches solely through their own efforts. It is morally right for the stronger in society to help the weak, the rich to help the poor. Your counter argument (TPA and Tufton St handbook) is morally bankrupt and purely based around an agenda driven by greed.
Everyone should pay the same proportion. Simple. Close all loopholes and drastically simplify the tax code in UK.
Better education, better healthcare, better housing ALL ultimately leads to better outcomes for society as a whole. It leads to lower crime levels, higher employment levels and better health all reducing welfare, healthcare and law enforcement costs for the state. However I do not think morals enter the equation or have any relevance. As things stand the Conservatives have an 80 seat majority so it can only be concluded that most people are happy with the help given to the less well off in society . The type of help required is probably non monetary so an obsession with taxation does not help . Reinforcement of family values and taking care of others is far more important. Many large plcs work in partnership with charities . B & Q assist Shelter and Tesco help local charities and foodbanks. Taxation is hardly the solution ,guidance and advice is .
A caring society is not the exclusive territory of the left. Not everyone wants to rely on the taxpayer to fund their needs. An excellent illustration of how caring we are is the funding of mobility vehicles. There are circa 500 000 on the road. Another example is housing benefit. Maybe instead of constantly suggesting people pay extra tax we should be monitoring who actually uses the various public services and are they all necessary.
The reason the Johnson led Government (I cannot even bring myself to really identify them as Conservatives as they are in reality a bunch of self serving disaster capitalist corrupt thieving proto-fascists that Thatcher would have expelled) is down to a just two issues:
1. Brexit*
2. Corbyn was pretty much unelectable
*a significant minority of the eligible electorate but sadly a slim majority of those who voted
Trying to reposition this as tacit support for the Government is laughable.
As for your mobility cars example (that you have used before) I note you didn’t address my earlier point on 400k disabled people who have now been denied previously promised help with home insulation at a time when energy bills have increased at least 54%. . Maybe many people have an entirely different view of the government than yours . Boris Johnson is an exceptionally talented individual , speaks six languages and has street appeal to most people. Perhaps the Conservstiveas won because their policies were the best for the future of the UK. Prior to pollng day every candidate will have presented their policies , the electorate will have evaluated them and voted accordingly. Few MPs can copy the success of Boris Johnson . Maybe the electorate have foresight and judgement.
I agree once again, people do consistently vote Tory despite them fucking ove British people in favour of the rich friends.
The interesting question is, why?look at the opposition
Ah! So you think people have been convinced that any other party would be even more self serving and show even more contempt for British people?There you go again presuming what I think that’s not what I said try reading again.
It's called a conversation, I asked you a question. This is a fairly normal way of communicating.
Anyway, it's a sad state of affairs if people can't even imagine a government less shit than Boris's Tories.Thats up to the opposition to convince the public. I have no idea what they stand for as they never say,they are convinced they can win by just slagging off the current mob.
In fairness. That's a pretty piss poor excuse for the public supporting such a horrifically self servicing government.
There are other options, voting for a party that actually has something good to offer, abstaining from voting etc etc. There's more than just Blue and Red to vote for."
Piss poor excuse I like to know the policies pick which suits me best and vote I can’t vote for something I don’t know |
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By *ackal1 OP Couple
over a year ago
Manchester |
This thread and the truly awful choices on offer we all seem to agree on just re-enforces the argument for PR. The extreme nationalise everything will go the extreme theft by the rich will go. The parties will be forced to act together for the good of the people not just their own views.
It’s long overdue that we had true democracy as first past the post is just failing on a constant basis.
Power should be a privilege not a right. Our parliament is corrupt to its core along with being morally bankrupt and not fit for our needs. |
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|
By *ackal1 OP Couple
over a year ago
Manchester |
"I don't see this as being jealous of his or her income, it's about the position he holds and the decisions he makes that effects the lives of just about everyone in the UK , while enjoying the perks of his position and more importantly.. his influence
I agree with this but in addition why do people think it’s ok for others to not pay tax when they do? Bizarre
Those who make excuses (generally “we would all do it”) mostly live in the hope that one day they too will join the 0.1% club and be able to game the system. It’s the same reason many people continue to vote Tory as if that party (as it stands now) remotely cares or helps anyone other than the very wealthy.
The rhetoric (as I said, proactively steered by Tufton St for years now) has been fully embedded in consciousness of anyone remotely right leaning to say “they earned it so they should keep it” or “in absolute terms the rich already pay the most” conveniently ignoring that the fairest system is just to charge everyone the same percentage of their income - ALL their income. I do not see many people saying that they hope to join the 0.1 % club to which you refer. Maybe people have enough common sense to realise that punitive or unnecessary taxation might just encourage those targeted to leave the country which means that the rest of us would be worse off and end up paying even more tax. If you attempt to match taxes paid to the amount of usage of each public service as per each individual I think you will find that the wealthy contribute many times over . It night just be that most members of the public believe that people should pay their own way in life and not be dependent on taxes paid by a comparatively small section of the population .
People vote Tory because they believe in justice and fairness . Hence the reason for an 80 seat majority at the last election
Explain how everyone paying the same proportion of tax is punitive? Why should someone who is PAYE and earning £150k pay 45% but someone earning £millions not? Why is it morally right to have offshore financial mechanisms that allow the super rich to actually pay a smaller proportion of their income than basic rate tax payers?
You will just spin out absolute numbers again and I will continue to counter that NONE of these super rich people have earned their riches solely through their own efforts. It is morally right for the stronger in society to help the weak, the rich to help the poor. Your counter argument (TPA and Tufton St handbook) is morally bankrupt and purely based around an agenda driven by greed.
Everyone should pay the same proportion. Simple. Close all loopholes and drastically simplify the tax code in UK.
Better education, better healthcare, better housing ALL ultimately leads to better outcomes for society as a whole. It leads to lower crime levels, higher employment levels and better health all reducing welfare, healthcare and law enforcement costs for the state. However I do not think morals enter the equation or have any relevance. As things stand the Conservatives have an 80 seat majority so it can only be concluded that most people are happy with the help given to the less well off in society . The type of help required is probably non monetary so an obsession with taxation does not help . Reinforcement of family values and taking care of others is far more important. Many large plcs work in partnership with charities . B & Q assist Shelter and Tesco help local charities and foodbanks. Taxation is hardly the solution ,guidance and advice is .
A caring society is not the exclusive territory of the left. Not everyone wants to rely on the taxpayer to fund their needs. An excellent illustration of how caring we are is the funding of mobility vehicles. There are circa 500 000 on the road. Another example is housing benefit. Maybe instead of constantly suggesting people pay extra tax we should be monitoring who actually uses the various public services and are they all necessary.
The reason the Johnson led Government (I cannot even bring myself to really identify them as Conservatives as they are in reality a bunch of self serving disaster capitalist corrupt thieving proto-fascists that Thatcher would have expelled) is down to a just two issues:
1. Brexit*
2. Corbyn was pretty much unelectable
*a significant minority of the eligible electorate but sadly a slim majority of those who voted
Trying to reposition this as tacit support for the Government is laughable.
As for your mobility cars example (that you have used before) I note you didn’t address my earlier point on 400k disabled people who have now been denied previously promised help with home insulation at a time when energy bills have increased at least 54%. . Maybe many people have an entirely different view of the government than yours . Boris Johnson is an exceptionally talented individual , speaks six languages and has street appeal to most people. Perhaps the Conservstiveas won because their policies were the best for the future of the UK. Prior to pollng day every candidate will have presented their policies , the electorate will have evaluated them and voted accordingly. Few MPs can copy the success of Boris Johnson . Maybe the electorate have foresight and judgement.
I agree once again, people do consistently vote Tory despite them fucking ove British people in favour of the rich friends.
The interesting question is, why?look at the opposition
Ah! So you think people have been convinced that any other party would be even more self serving and show even more contempt for British people?There you go again presuming what I think that’s not what I said try reading again.
It's called a conversation, I asked you a question. This is a fairly normal way of communicating.
Anyway, it's a sad state of affairs if people can't even imagine a government less shit than Boris's Tories.Thats up to the opposition to convince the public. I have no idea what they stand for as they never say,they are convinced they can win by just slagging off the current mob.
In fairness. That's a pretty piss poor excuse for the public supporting such a horrifically self servicing government.
There are other options, voting for a party that actually has something good to offer, abstaining from voting etc etc. There's more than just Blue and Red to vote for.Piss poor excuse I like to know the policies pick which suits me best and vote I can’t vote for something I don’t know "
Give two examples of which policies suit you I’m curious? |
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or View forums list | |
"I don't see this as being jealous of his or her income, it's about the position he holds and the decisions he makes that effects the lives of just about everyone in the UK , while enjoying the perks of his position and more importantly.. his influence
I agree with this but in addition why do people think it’s ok for others to not pay tax when they do? Bizarre
Those who make excuses (generally “we would all do it”) mostly live in the hope that one day they too will join the 0.1% club and be able to game the system. It’s the same reason many people continue to vote Tory as if that party (as it stands now) remotely cares or helps anyone other than the very wealthy.
The rhetoric (as I said, proactively steered by Tufton St for years now) has been fully embedded in consciousness of anyone remotely right leaning to say “they earned it so they should keep it” or “in absolute terms the rich already pay the most” conveniently ignoring that the fairest system is just to charge everyone the same percentage of their income - ALL their income. I do not see many people saying that they hope to join the 0.1 % club to which you refer. Maybe people have enough common sense to realise that punitive or unnecessary taxation might just encourage those targeted to leave the country which means that the rest of us would be worse off and end up paying even more tax. If you attempt to match taxes paid to the amount of usage of each public service as per each individual I think you will find that the wealthy contribute many times over . It night just be that most members of the public believe that people should pay their own way in life and not be dependent on taxes paid by a comparatively small section of the population .
People vote Tory because they believe in justice and fairness . Hence the reason for an 80 seat majority at the last election
Explain how everyone paying the same proportion of tax is punitive? Why should someone who is PAYE and earning £150k pay 45% but someone earning £millions not? Why is it morally right to have offshore financial mechanisms that allow the super rich to actually pay a smaller proportion of their income than basic rate tax payers?
You will just spin out absolute numbers again and I will continue to counter that NONE of these super rich people have earned their riches solely through their own efforts. It is morally right for the stronger in society to help the weak, the rich to help the poor. Your counter argument (TPA and Tufton St handbook) is morally bankrupt and purely based around an agenda driven by greed.
Everyone should pay the same proportion. Simple. Close all loopholes and drastically simplify the tax code in UK.
Better education, better healthcare, better housing ALL ultimately leads to better outcomes for society as a whole. It leads to lower crime levels, higher employment levels and better health all reducing welfare, healthcare and law enforcement costs for the state. However I do not think morals enter the equation or have any relevance. As things stand the Conservatives have an 80 seat majority so it can only be concluded that most people are happy with the help given to the less well off in society . The type of help required is probably non monetary so an obsession with taxation does not help . Reinforcement of family values and taking care of others is far more important. Many large plcs work in partnership with charities . B & Q assist Shelter and Tesco help local charities and foodbanks. Taxation is hardly the solution ,guidance and advice is .
A caring society is not the exclusive territory of the left. Not everyone wants to rely on the taxpayer to fund their needs. An excellent illustration of how caring we are is the funding of mobility vehicles. There are circa 500 000 on the road. Another example is housing benefit. Maybe instead of constantly suggesting people pay extra tax we should be monitoring who actually uses the various public services and are they all necessary.
The reason the Johnson led Government (I cannot even bring myself to really identify them as Conservatives as they are in reality a bunch of self serving disaster capitalist corrupt thieving proto-fascists that Thatcher would have expelled) is down to a just two issues:
1. Brexit*
2. Corbyn was pretty much unelectable
*a significant minority of the eligible electorate but sadly a slim majority of those who voted
Trying to reposition this as tacit support for the Government is laughable.
As for your mobility cars example (that you have used before) I note you didn’t address my earlier point on 400k disabled people who have now been denied previously promised help with home insulation at a time when energy bills have increased at least 54%. . Maybe many people have an entirely different view of the government than yours . Boris Johnson is an exceptionally talented individual , speaks six languages and has street appeal to most people. Perhaps the Conservstiveas won because their policies were the best for the future of the UK. Prior to pollng day every candidate will have presented their policies , the electorate will have evaluated them and voted accordingly. Few MPs can copy the success of Boris Johnson . Maybe the electorate have foresight and judgement.
I agree once again, people do consistently vote Tory despite them fucking ove British people in favour of the rich friends.
The interesting question is, why?look at the opposition
Ah! So you think people have been convinced that any other party would be even more self serving and show even more contempt for British people?There you go again presuming what I think that’s not what I said try reading again.
It's called a conversation, I asked you a question. This is a fairly normal way of communicating.
Anyway, it's a sad state of affairs if people can't even imagine a government less shit than Boris's Tories.Thats up to the opposition to convince the public. I have no idea what they stand for as they never say,they are convinced they can win by just slagging off the current mob.
In fairness. That's a pretty piss poor excuse for the public supporting such a horrifically self servicing government.
There are other options, voting for a party that actually has something good to offer, abstaining from voting etc etc. There's more than just Blue and Red to vote for.Piss poor excuse I like to know the policies pick which suits me best and vote I can’t vote for something I don’t know "
If the public pick purely on policy, in the blind surveys where you pick which you like the best, not knowing which party it's from, the Tories never win.
So you personally can prefer policies that ruin the environment, favour the ultra wealthy etc etc. But the average punter doesn't. And the question remains, why do people keep voting for successive self serving Tory governments. |
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"For me it’s.
Conflicts. He’s in charge and she benefits.
Morals. Robbing the poorer in society through legally allowed means.
Fairness regarding tax. We should all pay the same percentage based on income however it is acquired.
Agreed.
Agreed in principle. I'm still squaring of if an Indian citizen who earns income in India from a company set up by her Indian gather should have to pay tax on the income here.
If I think that, is it okay for Lewis Hamilton to fuck off to Monaco to live and not pay taxes in the UK. He's benefited from UK money more.
I prefer higher percentages of tax going up. But you shouldn't be able to get to a point where you pay naff all. Personal or corporate.
On your first pint think about this,
She receives £11m through a tax free system offshore to India into her U.K. offshore or non Dom status. She buys a house through her non Taxable income in Belgravia for £10m not paying any stamp duty or tax (just like Tony Blair) . Now let’s assume that house increases in value by £5m over 15 years. She can then sell that house after making another £3m tax free because she is non Dom. Now apply that to her multiple houses and U.K. investments purchased through her offshore status.
Now look at a U.K. pensioner who pays tax on all his income as an employee through PAYE. His pension grows so when he retires he has a nice yearly payment. If it goes over £12k he will pay tax on the income over that amount and does not have a route to avoid any tax . If he has a valuable house inheritance tax is payable on that too., assuming he has not transferred ownership at least 7 years before his death. There is no tax payable if you are non Dom.
Lewis Hamilton would have been paid through an offshore agreement from the off so will have used the UK’s legal tax avoidance routes. Where he lived would have had little effect on his income as he would have used an offshore holding probably through a U.K. tax haven. If you are richer than a average you can avoid tax, the costs to do so make it worthwhile.
Rates as today
A low rate a higher rate and a top rate of 45% over £150 k . No limit on earnings but a maximum of 45% on all income whether PAYE or off shore payments to non taxable registered companies.
no expert. But I thought gains made in the UK would be taxable as a UK Res. Unless bought by a offshore company. That's a different question to domicile.
I'm no fan of tax weezes. But I see tax as partly as being about a social contract between generations. And so I'd want her Indian income taxed in India.
The non domicile of her status is abused both here and in India as the family business is registered offshore in Mauritius, The fact she has-lived here for almost fifteen years , her children live and go to school here would make her a British citizen to all intense and purposes. The fact she avoids tax means she can use the offshore company to make gains on her U.K. property without having to register for tax in the U.K. So yes it’s probably an offshore company that owns her house you’re right but the gains are benefitting her through that arrangement in addition to non Dom. The non Dom fits nicely into avoiding capital gains and inheritance tax as your residency avoids any and all risks of paying tax. If a U.K. company gives a house to an employee to use but is not registered offshore the employee will pay the relevant benefit in kind tax.
Personally I think property related tax should be paid in full at the U.K. rates whether you are resident or not and whether you are buying it through an offshore company or not. I’ll repeat Tony Blair avoided £500k by buying his London house through an offshore company. I know they are separate but one benefits the other. It’s just another example of one rule for the rich and one for the plebs who blindly vote for it over and over.
It’s an archaic rule to protect the very wealthy which needs to be abolished. too fucking right it does mate it makes my piss boil how in 2021 does this go on ffs "
It'll never change, they won't vote to change the law that they benefit from.
Let's not forget that avoiding the EU's clampdown on tax avoidance was one of the main drivers being brexit. |
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"I don't see this as being jealous of his or her income, it's about the position he holds and the decisions he makes that effects the lives of just about everyone in the UK , while enjoying the perks of his position and more importantly.. his influence
I agree with this but in addition why do people think it’s ok for others to not pay tax when they do? Bizarre
Those who make excuses (generally “we would all do it”) mostly live in the hope that one day they too will join the 0.1% club and be able to game the system. It’s the same reason many people continue to vote Tory as if that party (as it stands now) remotely cares or helps anyone other than the very wealthy.
The rhetoric (as I said, proactively steered by Tufton St for years now) has been fully embedded in consciousness of anyone remotely right leaning to say “they earned it so they should keep it” or “in absolute terms the rich already pay the most” conveniently ignoring that the fairest system is just to charge everyone the same percentage of their income - ALL their income. I do not see many people saying that they hope to join the 0.1 % club to which you refer. Maybe people have enough common sense to realise that punitive or unnecessary taxation might just encourage those targeted to leave the country which means that the rest of us would be worse off and end up paying even more tax. If you attempt to match taxes paid to the amount of usage of each public service as per each individual I think you will find that the wealthy contribute many times over . It night just be that most members of the public believe that people should pay their own way in life and not be dependent on taxes paid by a comparatively small section of the population .
People vote Tory because they believe in justice and fairness . Hence the reason for an 80 seat majority at the last election
Explain how everyone paying the same proportion of tax is punitive? Why should someone who is PAYE and earning £150k pay 45% but someone earning £millions not? Why is it morally right to have offshore financial mechanisms that allow the super rich to actually pay a smaller proportion of their income than basic rate tax payers?
You will just spin out absolute numbers again and I will continue to counter that NONE of these super rich people have earned their riches solely through their own efforts. It is morally right for the stronger in society to help the weak, the rich to help the poor. Your counter argument (TPA and Tufton St handbook) is morally bankrupt and purely based around an agenda driven by greed.
Everyone should pay the same proportion. Simple. Close all loopholes and drastically simplify the tax code in UK.
Better education, better healthcare, better housing ALL ultimately leads to better outcomes for society as a whole. It leads to lower crime levels, higher employment levels and better health all reducing welfare, healthcare and law enforcement costs for the state. However I do not think morals enter the equation or have any relevance. As things stand the Conservatives have an 80 seat majority so it can only be concluded that most people are happy with the help given to the less well off in society . The type of help required is probably non monetary so an obsession with taxation does not help . Reinforcement of family values and taking care of others is far more important. Many large plcs work in partnership with charities . B & Q assist Shelter and Tesco help local charities and foodbanks. Taxation is hardly the solution ,guidance and advice is .
A caring society is not the exclusive territory of the left. Not everyone wants to rely on the taxpayer to fund their needs. An excellent illustration of how caring we are is the funding of mobility vehicles. There are circa 500 000 on the road. Another example is housing benefit. Maybe instead of constantly suggesting people pay extra tax we should be monitoring who actually uses the various public services and are they all necessary.
The reason the Johnson led Government (I cannot even bring myself to really identify them as Conservatives as they are in reality a bunch of self serving disaster capitalist corrupt thieving proto-fascists that Thatcher would have expelled) is down to a just two issues:
1. Brexit*
2. Corbyn was pretty much unelectable
*a significant minority of the eligible electorate but sadly a slim majority of those who voted
Trying to reposition this as tacit support for the Government is laughable.
As for your mobility cars example (that you have used before) I note you didn’t address my earlier point on 400k disabled people who have now been denied previously promised help with home insulation at a time when energy bills have increased at least 54%. . Maybe many people have an entirely different view of the government than yours . Boris Johnson is an exceptionally talented individual , speaks six languages and has street appeal to most people. Perhaps the Conservstiveas won because their policies were the best for the future of the UK. Prior to pollng day every candidate will have presented their policies , the electorate will have evaluated them and voted accordingly. Few MPs can copy the success of Boris Johnson . Maybe the electorate have foresight and judgement.
I agree once again, people do consistently vote Tory despite them fucking ove British people in favour of the rich friends.
The interesting question is, why?look at the opposition
Ah! So you think people have been convinced that any other party would be even more self serving and show even more contempt for British people?There you go again presuming what I think that’s not what I said try reading again.
It's called a conversation, I asked you a question. This is a fairly normal way of communicating.
Anyway, it's a sad state of affairs if people can't even imagine a government less shit than Boris's Tories.Thats up to the opposition to convince the public. I have no idea what they stand for as they never say,they are convinced they can win by just slagging off the current mob.
In fairness. That's a pretty piss poor excuse for the public supporting such a horrifically self servicing government.
There are other options, voting for a party that actually has something good to offer, abstaining from voting etc etc. There's more than just Blue and Red to vote for.Piss poor excuse I like to know the policies pick which suits me best and vote I can’t vote for something I don’t know
Give two examples of which policies suit you I’m curious? "
Leave the EU and not to extend the transition period. Employ more police. |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
If you truly believe leaving the EU is/was better for the UK (or at least yourself) then while I disagree, I can at least respect your pov.
Recruit more police is completely laughable though, sorry!
The Tories have been in power since 2010. The Tories cut police numbers by over 20,000 in that time. They now want to put them back! It’s like the hokey y policy club! |
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"If you truly believe leaving the EU is/was better for the UK (or at least yourself) then while I disagree, I can at least respect your pov.
Recruit more police is completely laughable though, sorry!
The Tories have been in power since 2010. The Tories cut police numbers by over 20,000 in that time. They now want to put them back! It’s like the hokey y policy club!"
Yep maybe they did but i was ask for 2 things i voted for, as from the vote there are now over 9,000 more police than before and we have left the EU. Another thing i liked was not having to sell your house to pay for social care, the new national insurance social care levy has now come into force so i will have to wait and see if that comes true once the money starts rolling in. |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"If you truly believe leaving the EU is/was better for the UK (or at least yourself) then while I disagree, I can at least respect your pov.
Recruit more police is completely laughable though, sorry!
The Tories have been in power since 2010. The Tories cut police numbers by over 20,000 in that time. They now want to put them back! It’s like the hokey y policy club!Yep maybe they did but i was ask for 2 things i voted for, as from the vote there are now over 9,000 more police than before and we have left the EU. Another thing i liked was not having to sell your house to pay for social care, the new national insurance social care levy has now come into force so i will have to wait and see if that comes true once the money starts rolling in. "
Pretty sure the Govt u-turned on the sell your house thing but will need to check.
So are you saying that you would vote Labour if you liked more of their policies than the Conservative policies? |
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"If you truly believe leaving the EU is/was better for the UK (or at least yourself) then while I disagree, I can at least respect your pov.
Recruit more police is completely laughable though, sorry!
The Tories have been in power since 2010. The Tories cut police numbers by over 20,000 in that time. They now want to put them back! It’s like the hokey y policy club!Yep maybe they did but i was ask for 2 things i voted for, as from the vote there are now over 9,000 more police than before and we have left the EU. Another thing i liked was not having to sell your house to pay for social care, the new national insurance social care levy has now come into force so i will have to wait and see if that comes true once the money starts rolling in.
Pretty sure the Govt u-turned on the sell your house thing but will need to check.
So are you saying that you would vote Labour if you liked more of their policies than the Conservative policies? "
Of course, thats how i decide in any election. I didnt like all the tory policies but you are never going to get everything you want and jezzer was just making up things from day to day that was totally unbelievable and unelectable the whole country saw that it seems. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"If you truly believe leaving the EU is/was better for the UK (or at least yourself) then while I disagree, I can at least respect your pov.
Recruit more police is completely laughable though, sorry!
The Tories have been in power since 2010. The Tories cut police numbers by over 20,000 in that time. They now want to put them back! It’s like the hokey y policy club!Yep maybe they did but i was ask for 2 things i voted for, as from the vote there are now over 9,000 more police than before and we have left the EU. Another thing i liked was not having to sell your house to pay for social care, the new national insurance social care levy has now come into force so i will have to wait and see if that comes true once the money starts rolling in. "
9000 more police than ‘before’ ? Before when |
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"If you truly believe leaving the EU is/was better for the UK (or at least yourself) then while I disagree, I can at least respect your pov.
Recruit more police is completely laughable though, sorry!
The Tories have been in power since 2010. The Tories cut police numbers by over 20,000 in that time. They now want to put them back! It’s like the hokey y policy club!Yep maybe they did but i was ask for 2 things i voted for, as from the vote there are now over 9,000 more police than before and we have left the EU. Another thing i liked was not having to sell your house to pay for social care, the new national insurance social care levy has now come into force so i will have to wait and see if that comes true once the money starts rolling in.
9000 more police than ‘before’ ? Before when "
The last election. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"If you truly believe leaving the EU is/was better for the UK (or at least yourself) then while I disagree, I can at least respect your pov.
Recruit more police is completely laughable though, sorry!
The Tories have been in power since 2010. The Tories cut police numbers by over 20,000 in that time. They now want to put them back! It’s like the hokey y policy club!Yep maybe they did but i was ask for 2 things i voted for, as from the vote there are now over 9,000 more police than before and we have left the EU. Another thing i liked was not having to sell your house to pay for social care, the new national insurance social care levy has now come into force so i will have to wait and see if that comes true once the money starts rolling in.
9000 more police than ‘before’ ? Before when The last election."
I see, but you were happy to vote Tory when they were cutting police numbers ? |
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"If you truly believe leaving the EU is/was better for the UK (or at least yourself) then while I disagree, I can at least respect your pov.
Recruit more police is completely laughable though, sorry!
The Tories have been in power since 2010. The Tories cut police numbers by over 20,000 in that time. They now want to put them back! It’s like the hokey y policy club!Yep maybe they did but i was ask for 2 things i voted for, as from the vote there are now over 9,000 more police than before and we have left the EU. Another thing i liked was not having to sell your house to pay for social care, the new national insurance social care levy has now come into force so i will have to wait and see if that comes true once the money starts rolling in.
9000 more police than ‘before’ ? Before when The last election.
I see, but you were happy to vote Tory when they were cutting police numbers ? "
If you want to jump into a conversation at least read what is said. which was quote "i didnt like all the tory policies" |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"If you truly believe leaving the EU is/was better for the UK (or at least yourself) then while I disagree, I can at least respect your pov.
Recruit more police is completely laughable though, sorry!
The Tories have been in power since 2010. The Tories cut police numbers by over 20,000 in that time. They now want to put them back! It’s like the hokey y policy club!Yep maybe they did but i was ask for 2 things i voted for, as from the vote there are now over 9,000 more police than before and we have left the EU. Another thing i liked was not having to sell your house to pay for social care, the new national insurance social care levy has now come into force so i will have to wait and see if that comes true once the money starts rolling in.
9000 more police than ‘before’ ? Before when The last election.
I see, but you were happy to vote Tory when they were cutting police numbers ? If you want to jump into a conversation at least read what is said. which was quote "i didnt like all the tory policies""
But you highlighted the increase in police numbers as one of the main reasons you voted from then at the last GE? |
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"If you truly believe leaving the EU is/was better for the UK (or at least yourself) then while I disagree, I can at least respect your pov.
Recruit more police is completely laughable though, sorry!
The Tories have been in power since 2010. The Tories cut police numbers by over 20,000 in that time. They now want to put them back! It’s like the hokey y policy club!Yep maybe they did but i was ask for 2 things i voted for, as from the vote there are now over 9,000 more police than before and we have left the EU. Another thing i liked was not having to sell your house to pay for social care, the new national insurance social care levy has now come into force so i will have to wait and see if that comes true once the money starts rolling in.
9000 more police than ‘before’ ? Before when The last election.
I see, but you were happy to vote Tory when they were cutting police numbers ? If you want to jump into a conversation at least read what is said. which was quote "i didnt like all the tory policies"
But you highlighted the increase in police numbers as one of the main reasons you voted from then at the last GE? "
Exactly boris could see like everyone the cuts had gone too deep and they needed bolstering whats hard to understand about that? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"If you truly believe leaving the EU is/was better for the UK (or at least yourself) then while I disagree, I can at least respect your pov.
Recruit more police is completely laughable though, sorry!
The Tories have been in power since 2010. The Tories cut police numbers by over 20,000 in that time. They now want to put them back! It’s like the hokey y policy club!Yep maybe they did but i was ask for 2 things i voted for, as from the vote there are now over 9,000 more police than before and we have left the EU. Another thing i liked was not having to sell your house to pay for social care, the new national insurance social care levy has now come into force so i will have to wait and see if that comes true once the money starts rolling in.
9000 more police than ‘before’ ? Before when The last election.
I see, but you were happy to vote Tory when they were cutting police numbers ? If you want to jump into a conversation at least read what is said. which was quote "i didnt like all the tory policies"
But you highlighted the increase in police numbers as one of the main reasons you voted from then at the last GE? Exactly boris could see like everyone the cuts had gone too deep and they needed bolstering whats hard to understand about that?"
Right, so you didn’t care about police numbers before when you voted Tory but you care about police numbers now |
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"I don't see this as being jealous of his or her income, it's about the position he holds and the decisions he makes that effects the lives of just about everyone in the UK , while enjoying the perks of his position and more importantly.. his influence
I agree with this but in addition why do people think it’s ok for others to not pay tax when they do? Bizarre
Those who make excuses (generally “we would all do it”) mostly live in the hope that one day they too will join the 0.1% club and be able to game the system. It’s the same reason many people continue to vote Tory as if that party (as it stands now) remotely cares or helps anyone other than the very wealthy.
The rhetoric (as I said, proactively steered by Tufton St for years now) has been fully embedded in consciousness of anyone remotely right leaning to say “they earned it so they should keep it” or “in absolute terms the rich already pay the most” conveniently ignoring that the fairest system is just to charge everyone the same percentage of their income - ALL their income. I do not see many people saying that they hope to join the 0.1 % club to which you refer. Maybe people have enough common sense to realise that punitive or unnecessary taxation might just encourage those targeted to leave the country which means that the rest of us would be worse off and end up paying even more tax. If you attempt to match taxes paid to the amount of usage of each public service as per each individual I think you will find that the wealthy contribute many times over . It night just be that most members of the public believe that people should pay their own way in life and not be dependent on taxes paid by a comparatively small section of the population .
People vote Tory because they believe in justice and fairness . Hence the reason for an 80 seat majority at the last election
Explain how everyone paying the same proportion of tax is punitive? Why should someone who is PAYE and earning £150k pay 45% but someone earning £millions not? Why is it morally right to have offshore financial mechanisms that allow the super rich to actually pay a smaller proportion of their income than basic rate tax payers?
You will just spin out absolute numbers again and I will continue to counter that NONE of these super rich people have earned their riches solely through their own efforts. It is morally right for the stronger in society to help the weak, the rich to help the poor. Your counter argument (TPA and Tufton St handbook) is morally bankrupt and purely based around an agenda driven by greed.
Everyone should pay the same proportion. Simple. Close all loopholes and drastically simplify the tax code in UK.
Better education, better healthcare, better housing ALL ultimately leads to better outcomes for society as a whole. It leads to lower crime levels, higher employment levels and better health all reducing welfare, healthcare and law enforcement costs for the state. However I do not think morals enter the equation or have any relevance. As things stand the Conservatives have an 80 seat majority so it can only be concluded that most people are happy with the help given to the less well off in society . The type of help required is probably non monetary so an obsession with taxation does not help . Reinforcement of family values and taking care of others is far more important. Many large plcs work in partnership with charities . B & Q assist Shelter and Tesco help local charities and foodbanks. Taxation is hardly the solution ,guidance and advice is .
A caring society is not the exclusive territory of the left. Not everyone wants to rely on the taxpayer to fund their needs. An excellent illustration of how caring we are is the funding of mobility vehicles. There are circa 500 000 on the road. Another example is housing benefit. Maybe instead of constantly suggesting people pay extra tax we should be monitoring who actually uses the various public services and are they all necessary.
The reason the Johnson led Government (I cannot even bring myself to really identify them as Conservatives as they are in reality a bunch of self serving disaster capitalist corrupt thieving proto-fascists that Thatcher would have expelled) is down to a just two issues:
1. Brexit*
2. Corbyn was pretty much unelectable
*a significant minority of the eligible electorate but sadly a slim majority of those who voted
Trying to reposition this as tacit support for the Government is laughable.
As for your mobility cars example (that you have used before) I note you didn’t address my earlier point on 400k disabled people who have now been denied previously promised help with home insulation at a time when energy bills have increased at least 54%. . Maybe many people have an entirely different view of the government than yours . Boris Johnson is an exceptionally talented individual , speaks six languages and has street appeal to most people. Perhaps the Conservstiveas won because their policies were the best for the future of the UK. Prior to pollng day every candidate will have presented their policies , the electorate will have evaluated them and voted accordingly. Few MPs can copy the success of Boris Johnson . Maybe the electorate have foresight and judgement.
I agree once again, people do consistently vote Tory despite them fucking ove British people in favour of the rich friends.
The interesting question is, why?look at the opposition
Ah! So you think people have been convinced that any other party would be even more self serving and show even more contempt for British people?There you go again presuming what I think that’s not what I said try reading again.
It's called a conversation, I asked you a question. This is a fairly normal way of communicating.
Anyway, it's a sad state of affairs if people can't even imagine a government less shit than Boris's Tories.Thats up to the opposition to convince the public. I have no idea what they stand for as they never say,they are convinced they can win by just slagging off the current mob.
In fairness. That's a pretty piss poor excuse for the public supporting such a horrifically self servicing government.
There are other options, voting for a party that actually has something good to offer, abstaining from voting etc etc. There's more than just Blue and Red to vote for.Piss poor excuse I like to know the policies pick which suits me best and vote I can’t vote for something I don’t know
If the public pick purely on policy, in the blind surveys where you pick which you like the best, not knowing which party it's from, the Tories never win.
So you personally can prefer policies that ruin the environment, favour the ultra wealthy etc etc. But the average punter doesn't. And the question remains, why do people keep voting for successive self serving Tory governments."
How do you know what i would pick in a blind survey?  |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"If you truly believe leaving the EU is/was better for the UK (or at least yourself) then while I disagree, I can at least respect your pov.
Recruit more police is completely laughable though, sorry!
The Tories have been in power since 2010. The Tories cut police numbers by over 20,000 in that time. They now want to put them back! It’s like the hokey y policy club!Yep maybe they did but i was ask for 2 things i voted for, as from the vote there are now over 9,000 more police than before and we have left the EU. Another thing i liked was not having to sell your house to pay for social care, the new national insurance social care levy has now come into force so i will have to wait and see if that comes true once the money starts rolling in.
Pretty sure the Govt u-turned on the sell your house thing but will need to check.
So are you saying that you would vote Labour if you liked more of their policies than the Conservative policies? Of course, thats how i decide in any election. I didnt like all the tory policies but you are never going to get everything you want and jezzer was just making up things from day to day that was totally unbelievable and unelectable the whole country saw that it seems."
On the Police numbers thing. Pretty sure, but need to check, that no party in an election year has ever talked about cutting Police numbers (nobody would like that). Also pretty sure everyone talks about more police, more nurses, more doctors.
For the Tories having been in power for 13 years it is all smoke and mirrors. Cut the numbers. People start to complain. Increase the numbers. Oh it’s costing too much. Cut the numbers again.
It’s really a lot easier to show and boast about growth when coming from a lower baseline. |
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"If you truly believe leaving the EU is/was better for the UK (or at least yourself) then while I disagree, I can at least respect your pov.
Recruit more police is completely laughable though, sorry!
The Tories have been in power since 2010. The Tories cut police numbers by over 20,000 in that time. They now want to put them back! It’s like the hokey y policy club!Yep maybe they did but i was ask for 2 things i voted for, as from the vote there are now over 9,000 more police than before and we have left the EU. Another thing i liked was not having to sell your house to pay for social care, the new national insurance social care levy has now come into force so i will have to wait and see if that comes true once the money starts rolling in.
9000 more police than ‘before’ ? Before when The last election.
I see, but you were happy to vote Tory when they were cutting police numbers ? If you want to jump into a conversation at least read what is said. which was quote "i didnt like all the tory policies"
But you highlighted the increase in police numbers as one of the main reasons you voted from then at the last GE? Exactly boris could see like everyone the cuts had gone too deep and they needed bolstering whats hard to understand about that?
Right, so you didn’t care about police numbers before when you voted Tory but you care about police numbers now "
Not exactly what i said but yes if it makes you happy and i can get off this childish merry-go-round that you always get on. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"If you truly believe leaving the EU is/was better for the UK (or at least yourself) then while I disagree, I can at least respect your pov.
Recruit more police is completely laughable though, sorry!
The Tories have been in power since 2010. The Tories cut police numbers by over 20,000 in that time. They now want to put them back! It’s like the hokey y policy club!Yep maybe they did but i was ask for 2 things i voted for, as from the vote there are now over 9,000 more police than before and we have left the EU. Another thing i liked was not having to sell your house to pay for social care, the new national insurance social care levy has now come into force so i will have to wait and see if that comes true once the money starts rolling in.
9000 more police than ‘before’ ? Before when The last election.
I see, but you were happy to vote Tory when they were cutting police numbers ? If you want to jump into a conversation at least read what is said. which was quote "i didnt like all the tory policies"
But you highlighted the increase in police numbers as one of the main reasons you voted from then at the last GE? Exactly boris could see like everyone the cuts had gone too deep and they needed bolstering whats hard to understand about that?
Right, so you didn’t care about police numbers before when you voted Tory but you care about police numbers now Not exactly what i said but yes if it makes you happy and i can get off this childish merry-go-round that you always get on. "
No need for insults. I just wanted to clarify that you have only recently started caring about police numbers |
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By *ackal1 OP Couple
over a year ago
Manchester |
"If you truly believe leaving the EU is/was better for the UK (or at least yourself) then while I disagree, I can at least respect your pov.
Recruit more police is completely laughable though, sorry!
The Tories have been in power since 2010. The Tories cut police numbers by over 20,000 in that time. They now want to put them back! It’s like the hokey y policy club!Yep maybe they did but i was ask for 2 things i voted for, as from the vote there are now over 9,000 more police than before and we have left the EU. Another thing i liked was not having to sell your house to pay for social care, the new national insurance social care levy has now come into force so i will have to wait and see if that comes true once the money starts rolling in.
9000 more police than ‘before’ ? Before when The last election.
I see, but you were happy to vote Tory when they were cutting police numbers ? If you want to jump into a conversation at least read what is said. which was quote "i didnt like all the tory policies""
Did you vote Tory for Teresa May? Just asking for a friend.
I’ll dismiss the EU thing as mislead so not your fault. |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
Sunak's wife owned Lava Mayfair Club. It went bust in 2021 owing £44m & £374k to HMRC.
She owned Mrs Wordsmith. It went bust in 2021 owing £16m after getting a £1.3m loan from the UK Government (from taxpayers).
She also owned Digme Fitness. It got £635k furlough but closed down owing HMRC £415k.
Nothing to see here though! |
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By *ovebjsMan
over a year ago
Bristol |
"Sunak's wife owned Lava Mayfair Club. It went bust in 2021 owing £44m & £374k to HMRC.
She owned Mrs Wordsmith. It went bust in 2021 owing £16m after getting a £1.3m loan from the UK Government (from taxpayers).
She also owned Digme Fitness. It got £635k furlough but closed down owing HMRC £415k.
Nothing to see here though!"
She sounds like a bit of a disaster area don’t she
She’s gone bust 3 times as far as we know and I bet she left a shite load of creditors who most likely had to whistle for their money 
All the while they as a couple are worth 1 billion plus
I’m not anti Tory but this just don’t smell right |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"This seemed to create sone interesting debate so I thought why not another brick through the window.
A lot of people claiming they’ve earned everything they have without anyones help.
I’d like to see how they’ve done that without any other people being involved with the likes of guiding direction, education, introductions, or support. Self funded too I’m sure .. not! Self made is an easy term to bandy about but true self made, I for one call that total bullshit! Self driven and hard working and indeed totally deserving of success maybe, but totally self made nah not having it.
Tax should be paid in equal measure for rich and poor. Have a threshold for the very poor if you like. But after 50k you pay say 40% and everyone earning above that pays the same 40% . No offshore, no non doms. Just a straight rate for all regardless of income. By default if you earn more you keep more.
Dividends are enough of an incentive to do well in business so the selfish greed needs to be stopped.
As for the jealousy and it’s just spiteful envy comments, I built my own businesses and am wealthy by any standards in this country so I’m not jealous or envious. I’m practical and have a sense of fairness to give everyone an equal opportunity to reach the top of their potential. Our fake class driven society respects their betters due to status rather than ability. Sunak’s wife inherited her wealth she didn’t create it. Why should she be treated differently to any full tax paying worker?
A generally wealthier caring society increases wealth and opportunities for all. The theory of trickle down wealth has proven that it does not.
So I for one want a fairer tax regime to be implemented. Those if you who think the colonial Non Dom status is a good thing I believe are wrong and misguided. . Why so you always quote percentages instead of the amount actually paid in hard cash. A percentage figure can be manipulated to distort things.
The do called rich already pay the majority of the tax in the UK. Surely you should be trying to identify who uses public services , the actual cost in money terms and how much tax in hard cash the relevant sections pay.
Intersting one newspaper did a survey and asked people about tax rates. When those who wanted higher rates were handed a form by the newspaper in order to pay additional tax to HMRC , every single person who was so much in favour of higher taxes declined to fill it in. None of them wanted to put their ideas into practice.
Do we even need to collect more taxes . ? How about better management of existing resources. It is always very easy to spennd other peoples money.
Why are you obsessed with how much someone uses public funded services?
Why are you obsessed with absolute numbers rather than equal proportionality?
Do you honestly think offshoring wealth or owning property via tax haven based companies to avoid IHT etc is right?
Have a quick flick through the handbook. I reckon there are a few emotive soundbites and paragraphs you can lift on page 247!!!. I would have thought that it is absolutely crucial to identify who uses public services, why they are used and more importantly the cost of providing a service. Simply asking people to pay more tax hardly solves the issue ."
There has to be a debate. There are many angles:
What we choose to fund.
The degree to which it is funded free at the point if delivery and the eligibility criteria.
The manner in which we raise that funding through taxation.
The manner in which taxation os fairly collected so that all taxpayers pay a proportionally “fair share” - without damaging investment and unduly penalising those who strive.
The real challenge is finding the balance that keeps a majority happy. As everyone has a subtly different vested interest. As a result we seem to swing from high tax and squander to austerity and giveaways/loopholes and not much fundamentally changes.
We should be open to debating all points. For every breath spent calling for more tax, we should spend three making sure it is wisely spent. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I don't see this as being jealous of his or her income, it's about the position he holds and the decisions he makes that effects the lives of just about everyone in the UK , while enjoying the perks of his position and more importantly.. his influence
I agree with this but in addition why do people think it’s ok for others to not pay tax when they do? Bizarre
Those who make excuses (generally “we would all do it”) mostly live in the hope that one day they too will join the 0.1% club and be able to game the system. It’s the same reason many people continue to vote Tory as if that party (as it stands now) remotely cares or helps anyone other than the very wealthy.
The rhetoric (as I said, proactively steered by Tufton St for years now) has been fully embedded in consciousness of anyone remotely right leaning to say “they earned it so they should keep it” or “in absolute terms the rich already pay the most” conveniently ignoring that the fairest system is just to charge everyone the same percentage of their income - ALL their income. I do not see many people saying that they hope to join the 0.1 % club to which you refer. Maybe people have enough common sense to realise that punitive or unnecessary taxation might just encourage those targeted to leave the country which means that the rest of us would be worse off and end up paying even more tax. If you attempt to match taxes paid to the amount of usage of each public service as per each individual I think you will find that the wealthy contribute many times over . It night just be that most members of the public believe that people should pay their own way in life and not be dependent on taxes paid by a comparatively small section of the population .
People vote Tory because they believe in justice and fairness . Hence the reason for an 80 seat majority at the last election "
What detriment would the UK face if the Sanuks were to move abroad? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"There are reports that tax experts have urged HMRC to investigate whether £4.3m in interest-free loans made by Chancellor Rishi Sunak’s wife to her venture capital firm broke the terms of her non-dom status.
In other (not reported in the) news...
Some 400,000 disabled people across England have been stripped of the right to free insulation that could bring down their heating bills, in a move quietly slipped out by the government on Friday."
This is precisely the justice and fairness that motivated people to vote Tory!!!! What’s so hard to fathom about that? |
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By *ackal1 OP Couple
over a year ago
Manchester |
"I don't see this as being jealous of his or her income, it's about the position he holds and the decisions he makes that effects the lives of just about everyone in the UK , while enjoying the perks of his position and more importantly.. his influence
I agree with this but in addition why do people think it’s ok for others to not pay tax when they do? Bizarre
Those who make excuses (generally “we would all do it”) mostly live in the hope that one day they too will join the 0.1% club and be able to game the system. It’s the same reason many people continue to vote Tory as if that party (as it stands now) remotely cares or helps anyone other than the very wealthy.
The rhetoric (as I said, proactively steered by Tufton St for years now) has been fully embedded in consciousness of anyone remotely right leaning to say “they earned it so they should keep it” or “in absolute terms the rich already pay the most” conveniently ignoring that the fairest system is just to charge everyone the same percentage of their income - ALL their income. I do not see many people saying that they hope to join the 0.1 % club to which you refer. Maybe people have enough common sense to realise that punitive or unnecessary taxation might just encourage those targeted to leave the country which means that the rest of us would be worse off and end up paying even more tax. If you attempt to match taxes paid to the amount of usage of each public service as per each individual I think you will find that the wealthy contribute many times over . It night just be that most members of the public believe that people should pay their own way in life and not be dependent on taxes paid by a comparatively small section of the population .
People vote Tory because they believe in justice and fairness . Hence the reason for an 80 seat majority at the last election
What detriment would the UK face if the Sanuks were to move abroad? "
Westminster school would lose out on another possible £100k donation plus £25k gift aid, but otherwise pretty much zilch. They will only pay tax on dividends received in the U.K. So they will simply pay them into Mauritius. Tax problem solved.
I should charge for this valuable advice. |
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