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William and Kate
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Should they have even bothered to visit Belize or Jamaica?
Considering the shite welcome maybe just cut them loose  "
Why would piss poor people give much of a toss about a rich and privilege couple visiting them? Time we all moved on and cut them loose once her maj has her time.
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By *ovebjs OP Man
over a year ago
Bristol |
"Should they have even bothered to visit Belize or Jamaica?
Considering the shite welcome maybe just cut them loose
Why would piss poor people give much of a toss about a rich and privilege couple visiting them? Time we all moved on and cut them loose once her maj has her time.
"
Why wait until she’s gone I would have cut them loose sooner than that |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Should they have even bothered to visit Belize or Jamaica?
Considering the shite welcome maybe just cut them loose
Why would piss poor people give much of a toss about a rich and privilege couple visiting them? Time we all moved on and cut them loose once her maj has her time.
Why wait until she’s gone I would have cut them loose sooner than that "
For clarity I was referring to the monarchy not the islands. |
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By *ovebjs OP Man
over a year ago
Bristol |
"Should they have even bothered to visit Belize or Jamaica?
Considering the shite welcome maybe just cut them loose
Why would piss poor people give much of a toss about a rich and privilege couple visiting them? Time we all moved on and cut them loose once her maj has her time.
Why wait until she’s gone I would have cut them loose sooner than that
For clarity I was referring to the monarchy not the islands. "
Ah yea ok  |
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"Should they have even bothered to visit Belize or Jamaica?
Considering the shite welcome maybe just cut them loose
Why would piss poor people give much of a toss about a rich and privilege couple visiting them? Time we all moved on and cut them loose once her maj has her time.
"
I for one like Our monarchy.
Is it just the monarchy you hate or all rich people? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Should they have even bothered to visit Belize or Jamaica?
Considering the shite welcome maybe just cut them loose
Why would piss poor people give much of a toss about a rich and privilege couple visiting them? Time we all moved on and cut them loose once her maj has her time.
I for one like Our monarchy.
Is it just the monarchy you hate or all rich people?"
Bit of a juvenile response!
Don’t hate rich people at all. Why would you think that based on what I posted?
I also don’t hate the monarchy, simply that they are an outmoded institution that would be wound down.
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"Should they have even bothered to visit Belize or Jamaica?
Considering the shite welcome maybe just cut them loose
Why would piss poor people give much of a toss about a rich and privilege couple visiting them? Time we all moved on and cut them loose once her maj has her time.
I for one like Our monarchy.
Is it just the monarchy you hate or all rich people?
Bit of a juvenile response!
Don’t hate rich people at all. Why would you think that based on what I posted?
I also don’t hate the monarchy, simply that they are an outmoded institution that would be wound down.
"
Juvenile because I disagreed with you?
Why should they be wound down?
They are a reminder of our dwindling identity as a nation good and bad.
Without our royal family we are just going to become a bland extension of the USA.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Should they have even bothered to visit Belize or Jamaica?
Considering the shite welcome maybe just cut them loose
Why would piss poor people give much of a toss about a rich and privilege couple visiting them? Time we all moved on and cut them loose once her maj has her time.
I for one like Our monarchy.
Is it just the monarchy you hate or all rich people?
Bit of a juvenile response!
Don’t hate rich people at all. Why would you think that based on what I posted?
I also don’t hate the monarchy, simply that they are an outmoded institution that would be wound down.
Juvenile because I disagreed with you?
Why should they be wound down?
They are a reminder of our dwindling identity as a nation good and bad.
Without our royal family we are just going to become a bland extension of the USA.
"
Juvenile when you resorted to asking about hatred. Different opinions are fair enough. We all have them . Healthy debate requires them. But you called out hatred, based one what? A playground level assessment of my “rich” comment. Which was aimed at the comment previously about the poor reception…. Why indeed would the citizens of an impoverished nation have much time for wealthy and privileged overlords that they have no choice in their status?
Monarchy does indeed remind us if the past. The violent past that was needed to secure their privileged position. To evolve we need to move beyond that. In a manageable and controlled transition.
I pity anyone who has such little grasp on their own culture and identity as to require an icon with hereditary privilege to feel connected. |
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"Should they have even bothered to visit Belize or Jamaica?
Considering the shite welcome maybe just cut them loose
Why would piss poor people give much of a toss about a rich and privilege couple visiting them? Time we all moved on and cut them loose once her maj has her time.
I for one like Our monarchy.
Is it just the monarchy you hate or all rich people?
Bit of a juvenile response!
Don’t hate rich people at all. Why would you think that based on what I posted?
I also don’t hate the monarchy, simply that they are an outmoded institution that would be wound down.
Juvenile because I disagreed with you?
Why should they be wound down?
They are a reminder of our dwindling identity as a nation good and bad.
Without our royal family we are just going to become a bland extension of the USA.
Juvenile when you resorted to asking about hatred. Different opinions are fair enough. We all have them . Healthy debate requires them. But you called out hatred, based one what? A playground level assessment of my “rich” comment. Which was aimed at the comment previously about the poor reception…. Why indeed would the citizens of an impoverished nation have much time for wealthy and privileged overlords that they have no choice in their status?
Monarchy does indeed remind us if the past. The violent past that was needed to secure their privileged position. To evolve we need to move beyond that. In a manageable and controlled transition.
I pity anyone who has such little grasp on their own culture and identity as to require an icon with hereditary privilege to feel connected. "
Good grief you are blaming me for making assumptions yet...
I'm out of here.  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I think they want to be "cut loose" but, we should pay the people's of those countries.
"We" should pay? Don't ask me to pay for the sins of my father. "
Have we not benefited from said sins? |
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"I think they want to be "cut loose" but, we should pay the people's of those countries.
"We" should pay? Don't ask me to pay for the sins of my father.
Have we not benefited from said sins?"
Maybe, maybe not. But I will not be held to account for their sins. I didn't commit them or collude in them.
How do I quantify how much I have benefitted personally? Who really benefitted from the robbing of these countries? It wasn't the working classes of the time. So why should the working class of now pay for the crimes of the upper classes of yesteryear? If you want to hand over X million pounds to them, then take it from the rich. They can afford and it was they who robbed them in the first place. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"Should they have even bothered to visit Belize or Jamaica?
Considering the shite welcome maybe just cut them loose "
Belize and Jamaica are part of the Commonwealth so, yes they should be "bothered".
Protest is fine, but the Jamaican Prime Minister was undiplomatic and rude. You just don't treat a guest like that. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I think they want to be "cut loose" but, we should pay the people's of those countries.
"We" should pay? Don't ask me to pay for the sins of my father.
Have we not benefited from said sins?
Maybe, maybe not. But I will not be held to account for their sins. I didn't commit them or collude in them.
How do I quantify how much I have benefitted personally? Who really benefitted from the robbing of these countries? It wasn't the working classes of the time. So why should the working class of now pay for the crimes of the upper classes of yesteryear? If you want to hand over X million pounds to them, then take it from the rich. They can afford and it was they who robbed them in the first place."
I doubt the intent would be to send you a bill personally. If it would be paid it would be the nation. The nation has wealth and the better off pay the taxes, generally speaking the working classes (which in this context I will take as lower income) generally don’t contribute sufficiently to be taxed anyway. So a moot point.
Nobody’s actually suggesting it would be paid in realty anyway. So mo need to get nickers in a bunch about it.
Oh and do these “working class” not mind funding her maj and family to live in the lap of luxury then?  |
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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago
Grantham |
I think the protests in Belize were by anti-conservation farmers.
The Jamacian people will decide on their Independence. But independence brings a severing of political and financial help, and the worry is, like with Barbados, others will move in.
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By *ovebjs OP Man
over a year ago
Bristol |
"Should they have even bothered to visit Belize or Jamaica?
Considering the shite welcome maybe just cut them loose
Belize and Jamaica are part of the Commonwealth so, yes they should be "bothered".
Protest is fine, but the Jamaican Prime Minister was undiplomatic and rude. You just don't treat a guest like that."
Agreed it was a grand stand for the media there part of his re election campaign |
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By *ovebjs OP Man
over a year ago
Bristol |
"I think the protests in Belize were by anti-conservation farmers.
The Jamacian people will decide on their Independence. But independence brings a severing of political and financial help, and the worry is, like with Barbados, others will move in.
"
China and the like will be waiting in the wings |
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"Should they have even bothered to visit Belize or Jamaica?
Considering the shite welcome maybe just cut them loose
Why would piss poor people give much of a toss about a rich and privilege couple visiting them? Time we all moved on and cut them loose once her maj has her time.
I for one like Our monarchy.
Is it just the monarchy you hate or all rich people?"
Me too mate. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Should they have even bothered to visit Belize or Jamaica?
Considering the shite welcome maybe just cut them loose
Why would piss poor people give much of a toss about a rich and privilege couple visiting them? Time we all moved on and cut them loose once her maj has her time.
I for one like Our monarchy.
Is it just the monarchy you hate or all rich people?Me too mate. "
It does seem to be the older folk who are big into the monarchy. Must be a generational thing. |
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"Should they have even bothered to visit Belize or Jamaica?
Considering the shite welcome maybe just cut them loose
Why would piss poor people give much of a toss about a rich and privilege couple visiting them? Time we all moved on and cut them loose once her maj has her time.
I for one like Our monarchy.
Is it just the monarchy you hate or all rich people?Me too mate.
It does seem to be the older folk who are big into the monarchy. Must be a generational thing. "
I would phase them out slowly over the next 20 years or so. Transfer their physical assets to public ownership and maybe keep on one or two for ceremonial duty, on an appropriate wage. |
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"Should they have even bothered to visit Belize or Jamaica?
Considering the shite welcome maybe just cut them loose
Why would piss poor people give much of a toss about a rich and privilege couple visiting them? Time we all moved on and cut them loose once her maj has her time.
I for one like Our monarchy.
Is it just the monarchy you hate or all rich people?Me too mate.
It does seem to be the older folk who are big into the monarchy. Must be a generational thing. "
You are probably right the young these days do seem to want to tear up British history and the monarchy are part of that which is nothing new every generation has wanted to change the world when young. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Should they have even bothered to visit Belize or Jamaica?
Considering the shite welcome maybe just cut them loose
Why would piss poor people give much of a toss about a rich and privilege couple visiting them? Time we all moved on and cut them loose once her maj has her time.
I for one like Our monarchy.
Is it just the monarchy you hate or all rich people?Me too mate.
It does seem to be the older folk who are big into the monarchy. Must be a generational thing. You are probably right the young these days do seem to want to tear up British history and the monarchy are part of that which is nothing new every generation has wanted to change the world when young. "
Times change and things that have had their day need to change. Hopefully the right balance of transition will be reached. The Union, Monarchy, Fossil Fuels etc, times are changing and we have to adapt. |
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"Should they have even bothered to visit Belize or Jamaica?
Considering the shite welcome maybe just cut them loose
Why would piss poor people give much of a toss about a rich and privilege couple visiting them? Time we all moved on and cut them loose once her maj has her time.
I for one like Our monarchy.
Is it just the monarchy you hate or all rich people?Me too mate.
It does seem to be the older folk who are big into the monarchy. Must be a generational thing. You are probably right the young these days do seem to want to tear up British history and the monarchy are part of that which is nothing new every generation has wanted to change the world when young. "
Why would, not having a monarchy in the future, be "tearing up history"? The history is in the past, and can't be changed. |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"I think they want to be "cut loose" but, we should pay the people's of those countries.
"We" should pay? Don't ask me to pay for the sins of my father.
Have we not benefited from said sins?"
Where do we draw the line in terms of historical atrocities or colonial exploitation? Some may argue that being part of the commonwealth (clue in name) went some way to help compensate for the past?
I get hazy here but wasn’t one of the Leave arguments supporting Brexit based around an inability to maximise Commonwealth trade due to our membership of the EU?
If so then aren’t there big opportunities for big inward investment by the UK and UK companies? Before China gets a full grip? |
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By *al2001Man
over a year ago
kildare |
The arrogance of this thread,much like the rejoin the EU thread.
The people of Jamaica will decide their own futures
The days of the British dictating other nations fates is long gone.
Worry about your own futures. |
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By *ackal1Couple
over a year ago
Manchester |
After Liz has gone we need to have a quiet word with Charles and William to tell them right this is the future. You will cut away all but four palaces as main residences. Buck, Windsor, Balmoral, and Sandringham. Tourist attractions.
Then cut loose all the hang on royals and remove the privilege status of said royals. ( get rid of the lords for 200 non partisan replacements)
A Dutch type royal family is fine by me. The income from the estates will pay their way or if not then retire the whole role. No more requirement to open the new Tesco's so no “working for us”royals
The class system holds this country back in todays world and it needs to be swept away.
As for paying money to Jamaica . When we compensated the sl4ve traders after the ban we used half of the nations GDP. It was so generous. That debt wasn’t paid off until 2015.
So go after the descendants of those families and get that cash with is still being used today for some to have a good lifestyle.
“While the British government hasn't disclosed a complete list of the recipient individuals and firms of bonds related to compensation for sl4ves, researchers at University College London have compiled a list of over 46,000 current individuals and groups who have received government payouts related to the abolition of sl4very. Many powerful British families, including current business and political elites in the United Kingdom, are among the recipients uncovered by the UCL team.” So make them pay if anyone is going to pay.
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By *ackal1Couple
over a year ago
Manchester |
"The arrogance of this thread,much like the rejoin the EU thread.
The people of Jamaica will decide their own futures
The days of the British dictating other nations fates is long gone.
Worry about your own futures."
I agree with you but claims for compensation are directed at this country so that’s involving us. |
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The Monarchy is a good idea and should be retained - not only are they great ambassadors for the UK in terms of trade and tourism, the public (bar anti-royalists) generally live them. As stated before, the Belize protest was about land rights, it wasn’t against them.
Reparations - Britain is £3 trillion in debt right now, and sla4very was a long time ago. So no, do not support the idea of reparations. |
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By *al2001Man
over a year ago
kildare |
"The arrogance of this thread,much like the rejoin the EU thread.
The people of Jamaica will decide their own futures
The days of the British dictating other nations fates is long gone.
Worry about your own futures.
I agree with you but claims for compensation are directed at this country so that’s involving us. "
No not UK citizens.
Like I said the Royal family should pay everything they got.
They still have the plunder,profit from sla¥€ry and other ill gotten gains |
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By *al2001Man
over a year ago
kildare |
"The Monarchy is a good idea and should be retained - not only are they great ambassadors for the UK in terms of trade and tourism, the public (bar anti-royalists) generally live them. As stated before, the Belize protest was about land rights, it wasn’t against them.
Reparations - Britain is £3 trillion in debt right now, and sla4very was a long time ago. So no, do not support the idea of reparations. "
What's Britain debt got to do with if it owes reparations or not?
It's historically taken so much from around the world,including people,and now you are trying to pin your debt on them too.!!
Pay your own debts.
All of them. |
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By *ackal1Couple
over a year ago
Manchester |
"The Monarchy is a good idea and should be retained - not only are they great ambassadors for the UK in terms of trade and tourism, the public (bar anti-royalists) generally live them. As stated before, the Belize protest was about land rights, it wasn’t against them.
Reparations - Britain is £3 trillion in debt right now, and sla4very was a long time ago. So no, do not support the idea of reparations. "
The French get more tourists than the UK and they guillotined their king a long time ago.
The monarchy is outdated and a tied to the feudal past of this country. It has no place in a modern society.
Let the queen go gracefully and then cut it back to a small scale history notional thing.
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this is a very sharp wake up call for monarchists about the reality of how little the royals are regarded in the wider world and indeed modern britain. why would anyone chose to perpetuate a backward medievel ideology in the 21st century is beyond the majority of people. |
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"I think they want to be "cut loose" but, we should pay the people's of those countries.
"We" should pay? Don't ask me to pay for the sins of my father.
Have we not benefited from said sins?
Maybe, maybe not. But I will not be held to account for their sins. I didn't commit them or collude in them.
How do I quantify how much I have benefitted personally? Who really benefitted from the robbing of these countries? It wasn't the working classes of the time. So why should the working class of now pay for the crimes of the upper classes of yesteryear? If you want to hand over X million pounds to them, then take it from the rich. They can afford and it was they who robbed them in the first place.
I doubt the intent would be to send you a bill personally. If it would be paid it would be the nation. The nation has wealth and the better off pay the taxes, generally speaking the working classes (which in this context I will take as lower income) generally don’t contribute sufficiently to be taxed anyway. So a moot point.
Nobody’s actually suggesting it would be paid in realty anyway. So mo need to get nickers in a bunch about it.
Oh and do these “working class” not mind funding her maj and family to live in the lap of luxury then? "
Hardly moot. Anyone who earns over the tax code attributed to them, pays income tax. That income tax WILL be used to pay these people if that decision gets made. I resent my taxes going towards compensating someones relatives for crimes committed by someone else's relatives. I also resent paying for the idle rich as well. And if nobody is suggesting it's paid in reality, then why has the subject been brought up a few times in recent years, by the people of those islands?
As I said, let royalty pay for their crimes. It's about time they put something back.
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"The Monarchy is a good idea and should be retained - not only are they great ambassadors for the UK in terms of trade and tourism, the public (bar anti-royalists) generally live them. As stated before, the Belize protest was about land rights, it wasn’t against them.
Reparations - Britain is £3 trillion in debt right now, and sla4very was a long time ago. So no, do not support the idea of reparations. "
...ah, the old "sl*very was a long time ago" tilt - which of course is funny, considering we were still paying reparation for "lost earnings" to the descendants of sl*ve owners up till 2015/2016?? Lost earnings, FFS!! |
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By *ovebjs OP Man
over a year ago
Bristol |
"The Monarchy is a good idea and should be retained - not only are they great ambassadors for the UK in terms of trade and tourism, the public (bar anti-royalists) generally live them. As stated before, the Belize protest was about land rights, it wasn’t against them.
Reparations - Britain is £3 trillion in debt right now, and sla4very was a long time ago. So no, do not support the idea of reparations.
...ah, the old "sl*very was a long time ago" tilt - which of course is funny, considering we were still paying reparation for "lost earnings" to the descendants of sl*ve owners up till 2015/2016?? Lost earnings, FFS!!"
But now it’s about the money not the apology, the money will soon be syphoned off by the Jamaican politicians |
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"I think the protests in Belize were by anti-conservation farmers.
The Jamacian people will decide on their Independence. But independence brings a severing of political and financial help, and the worry is, like with Barbados, others will move in.
"
Jamaica's been independent since 1962... |
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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago
Grantham |
"I think the protests in Belize were by anti-conservation farmers.
The Jamacian people will decide on their Independence. But independence brings a severing of political and financial help, and the worry is, like with Barbados, others will move in.
Jamaica's been independent since 1962..."
Yes, they want "full" independence now. |
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By *ovebjs OP Man
over a year ago
Bristol |
"I think the protests in Belize were by anti-conservation farmers.
The Jamacian people will decide on their Independence. But independence brings a severing of political and financial help, and the worry is, like with Barbados, others will move in.
Jamaica's been independent since 1962...
Yes, they want "full" independence now. "
There has never been anything standing in the way of independaence ?
They could have done it ages ago
All they have to do is have a vote and hey presto.
Same with Belize just get on with it.
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By *al2001Man
over a year ago
kildare |
"The Monarchy is a good idea and should be retained - not only are they great ambassadors for the UK in terms of trade and tourism, the public (bar anti-royalists) generally live them. As stated before, the Belize protest was about land rights, it wasn’t against them.
Reparations - Britain is £3 trillion in debt right now, and sla4very was a long time ago. So no, do not support the idea of reparations.
...ah, the old "sl*very was a long time ago" tilt - which of course is funny, considering we were still paying reparation for "lost earnings" to the descendants of sl*ve owners up till 2015/2016?? Lost earnings, FFS!!"
Wow I did not know this.
Worth repeating,the UK was repaying former sl@ve owners families up until 2016 for lost earnings !!
And people are arguing here about paying reparations to former slav€s but seemed OK about paying back sla%e owners
Who are these people that received this money?
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"The Monarchy is a good idea and should be retained - not only are they great ambassadors for the UK in terms of trade and tourism, the public (bar anti-royalists) generally live them. As stated before, the Belize protest was about land rights, it wasn’t against them.
Reparations - Britain is £3 trillion in debt right now, and sla4very was a long time ago. So no, do not support the idea of reparations.
...ah, the old "sl*very was a long time ago" tilt - which of course is funny, considering we were still paying reparation for "lost earnings" to the descendants of sl*ve owners up till 2015/2016?? Lost earnings, FFS!!
Wow I did not know this.
Worth repeating,the UK was repaying former sl@ve owners families up until 2016 for lost earnings !!
And people are arguing here about paying reparations to former slav€s but seemed OK about paying back sla%e owners
Who are these people that received this money?
"
It's not quite accurate.
The British government borrowed money in 1833 to pay "lost earnings" to sl4ve traders after the laws were changed.
Apparently the debt on the borrowed money wasn't paid off until 2015. |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"The Monarchy is a good idea and should be retained - not only are they great ambassadors for the UK in terms of trade and tourism, the public (bar anti-royalists) generally live them. As stated before, the Belize protest was about land rights, it wasn’t against them.
Reparations - Britain is £3 trillion in debt right now, and sla4very was a long time ago. So no, do not support the idea of reparations.
...ah, the old "sl*very was a long time ago" tilt - which of course is funny, considering we were still paying reparation for "lost earnings" to the descendants of sl*ve owners up till 2015/2016?? Lost earnings, FFS!!
Wow I did not know this.
Worth repeating,the UK was repaying former sl@ve owners families up until 2016 for lost earnings !!
And people are arguing here about paying reparations to former slav€s but seemed OK about paying back sla%e owners
Who are these people that received this money?
"
Don’t know this for a fact but I assume when it says it wasn’t fully paid back until 2016 that doesn’t actually mean those descendants have been getting payments all that time but that the original capital borrowed by the UK Govt to recompense the owners/traders and interest on that loan took all that time to pay back to the various banks who lent it.
The owners/traders at the time would have received a lump sum. Their decedents will have benefited from inheritance ever since. Some of the wealthiest families in the UK. So called “old money”. |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
“Many historians have rightly argued that without the promise of compensation for sl4veholders, an abolition bill would not have received enough support to pass in parliament. Originally proposed as a £15,000,000 loan, the government soon pledged a grant of £20,000,000 to [split between] approximately 47,000 claimants, some of whom owned only a few and others who owned thousands.
Compensation allowed the British government to attain support from a significant proportion of absentee proprietors who could be secure in the knowledge that their financial re-imbursement could be re-invested in other commercial enterprises.“
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By *ovebjs OP Man
over a year ago
Bristol |
"“Many historians have rightly argued that without the promise of compensation for sl4veholders, an abolition bill would not have received enough support to pass in parliament. Originally proposed as a £15,000,000 loan, the government soon pledged a grant of £20,000,000 to [split between] approximately 47,000 claimants, some of whom owned only a few and others who owned thousands.
Compensation allowed the British government to attain support from a significant proportion of absentee proprietors who could be secure in the knowledge that their financial re-imbursement could be re-invested in other commercial enterprises.“
"
But nobody ever mention those facts do they ? Because it does not fit in with the whole compensation thing.
The fact that the uk had to basically buy the people back to set them free
Something that should never have had to happen but it did.
Are they also gong to ask Egypt for compensation as well ? I seem to recall they had one or two as well.
Time to draw a line under it all and just get on wit them being independent |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"“Many historians have rightly argued that without the promise of compensation for sl4veholders, an abolition bill would not have received enough support to pass in parliament. Originally proposed as a £15,000,000 loan, the government soon pledged a grant of £20,000,000 to [split between] approximately 47,000 claimants, some of whom owned only a few and others who owned thousands.
Compensation allowed the British government to attain support from a significant proportion of absentee proprietors who could be secure in the knowledge that their financial re-imbursement could be re-invested in other commercial enterprises.“
But nobody ever mention those facts do they ? Because it does not fit in with the whole compensation thing.
The fact that the uk had to basically buy the people back to set them free
Something that should never have had to happen but it did.
Are they also gong to ask Egypt for compensation as well ? I seem to recall they had one or two as well.
Time to draw a line under it all and just get on wit them being independent "
Clearly the whole topic is very complicated a nuanced. There is always the argument about what point in history do you draw a line and say you cannot do anything about stuff that happened prior to that point.
I think you make a valid counter argument to state funded compensation because, we already have done that and have spent 200 years paying off that debt as a nation through our taxes.
However, the beneficiaries of that compensation are the ancestors of some of Britain’s wealthiest families. Through census data and birth, death, marriage records it is very easy in this country to identify the descendants of those who received the “pay off” which in todays money was substantial. So arguably if anyone is still on the hook for reparations it would be those families rather than the state (tax payer) who have already paid!
However, (always another however) it can be argued the UK benefited as a whole from sl4very...
“it is important to remember that while sugar and sl4very had created enormous fortunes for a small but very influential community on both sides of the Atlantic, the exploitation of ensl4ved workers also contributed heavily to the wider prosperity of the nation.
It was not only planters who benefitted from the significant West Indian branch of British colonial commerce, but the merchants, sugar refiners, manufacturers, insurance brokers, attorneys, shipbuilders and money lenders – all of whom were invested in the institution in some form or another.” |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"The Royal family profited from sla^£ry and still has that money in its coffers.
Give it all back and more
I agree, give it back"
So did the UK and it's people down to this generation and beyond.
It's not just individual families and their stately homes.
It's all the government buildings throughout the country. The companies. Educational establishments.
Generations of wealth and influence.
It's easy to demand that someone else returns things.
Will we do the same? Who do we give reparations to? Other governments or individuals? Are we responsible for how it is spent? Guns, repression, corruption or education and health and economic development?
What are the consequences of impoverishing this country?
The reality is all we can do is accept the truth of what happened and it's consequences and teach it honestly to our children. West Germany has done this over WWII.
Eventually that will create a generation of adults with a better understanding of the world and hopefully a view to influence it more positively.
I don't care if that is sneered at as unrealistic and weak and woke. If that isn't the point then it's a pretty miserable purpose for a nation and a people. |
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"After Liz has gone we need to have a quiet word with Charles and William to tell them right this is the future. You will cut away all but four palaces as main residences. Buck, Windsor, Balmoral, and Sandringham. Tourist attractions. Well said
Then cut loose all the hang on royals and remove the privilege status of said royals. ( get rid of the lords for 200 non partisan replacements)
A Dutch type royal family is fine by me. The income from the estates will pay their way or if not then retire the whole role. No more requirement to open the new Tesco's so no “working for us”royals
The class system holds this country back in todays world and it needs to be swept away.
As for paying money to Jamaica . When we compensated the sl4ve traders after the ban we used half of the nations GDP. It was so generous. That debt wasn’t paid off until 2015.
So go after the descendants of those families and get that cash with is still being used today for some to have a good lifestyle.
“While the British government hasn't disclosed a complete list of the recipient individuals and firms of bonds related to compensation for sl4ves, researchers at University College London have compiled a list of over 46,000 current individuals and groups who have received government payouts related to the abolition of sl4very. Many powerful British families, including current business and political elites in the United Kingdom, are among the recipients uncovered by the UCL team.” So make them pay if anyone is going to pay.
"
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By *ovebjs OP Man
over a year ago
Bristol |
All of the people involved are long gone now so who is left to apologise?
I refuse to apologise for rich folks who did unspeakable things way before I was born.
Just like I would not expect my children or descendants of them to apologise for anything I might have done 
Nobody ever seems to move on always harping on about the past instead of looking to the future.
But Un the end it all comes down to money not apologies |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
Surely the better thing to do is establish very favourable trading deals and inward investment to help with the future prosperity of ex colonies? How about “forgiving” some aspects of their national debt or restructuring that debt to provide more money to the people of those countries instead of having to use so much of their tax receipts servicing decades old debt. |
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By *ovebjs OP Man
over a year ago
Bristol |
"Surely the better thing to do is establish very favourable trading deals and inward investment to help with the future prosperity of ex colonies? How about “forgiving” some aspects of their national debt or restructuring that debt to provide more money to the people of those countries instead of having to use so much of their tax receipts servicing decades old debt."
It will not be enough for some |
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"Should they have even bothered to visit Belize or Jamaica?
Considering the shite welcome maybe just cut them loose
Why would piss poor people give much of a toss about a rich and privilege couple visiting them? Time we all moved on and cut them loose once her maj has her time.
"
Because, whatever your politics, and unless you are a republican, in times of hardship and threat the people can rally round a queen or king. Especially as ours do not run the country.
In a republic there are always a large group of people who do not agree or recognise the president as anything other than a politician. If we went to war how many would rally round Boris Johnson? |
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By *ackal1Couple
over a year ago
Manchester |
Just a little point
Will those looking for compensation also be asking for said money from the west African countries their ancestors came from. The sl4ves were caught in many many cases by their fellow countrymen who were paid well to do so.
My view is that if any compensation is to be offered and I doubt it, then those who benefited in the past and from generous monies since should pay. Not the state.
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"Just a little point
Will those looking for compensation also be asking for said money from the west African countries their ancestors came from. The sl4ves were caught in many many cases by their fellow countrymen who were paid well to do so.
My view is that if any compensation is to be offered and I doubt it, then those who benefited in the past and from generous monies since should pay. Not the state.
"
If a totally unbiased entity, freed of the baggage of the past, was to assess the current situation they would likely form a different opinion.
The current Caribbean peoples African homeland will likely have a poor economy, low job prospects, tribal and ethnic fighting, poor standards of living, corrupt government and poor education.
Those in the Caribbean, primarily because of the European influence in the past, have stable democratic governments, good job prospects, good education, no territorial threats and the luxury of free speech to complain about the events of 200 years ago.
So whilst I freely admit the issues of the past were horrific, and wrong, what are we compensating the current Caribbean peoples for?
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Should they have even bothered to visit Belize or Jamaica?
Considering the shite welcome maybe just cut them loose "
Yeah those descendents of sl@ves should have knelt down and worshipped the mighty white People FFS!
This post is as bad as your war crime hypocrisy posts |
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By *ovebjs OP Man
over a year ago
Bristol |
"Should they have even bothered to visit Belize or Jamaica?
Considering the shite welcome maybe just cut them loose
Yeah those descendents of sl@ves should have knelt down and worshipped the mighty white People FFS!
This post is as bad as your war crime hypocrisy posts"
Yea ok |
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"I think the protests in Belize were by anti-conservation farmers.
The Jamacian people will decide on their Independence. But independence brings a severing of political and financial help, and the worry is, like with Barbados, others will move in.
Jamaica's been independent since 1962...
Yes, they want "full" independence now. "
They already have "full" independence - the debate around monarchy vs republic doesn't change that. |
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"The Monarchy is a good idea and should be retained - not only are they great ambassadors for the UK in terms of trade and tourism, the public (bar anti-royalists) generally live them. As stated before, the Belize protest was about land rights, it wasn’t against them.
Reparations - Britain is £3 trillion in debt right now, and sla4very was a long time ago. So no, do not support the idea of reparations. "
Never met a tourist who has booked a 2 week stay in this country to hang outside Buckingham Palace gates. It's a myth that the royals bring in ££££ |
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"
I refuse to apologise for rich folks who did unspeakable things way before I was born.
"
and yet you consistantly and regularly condone the unspeakable things that a section of rich people who are complicit with the conservative and unionist government do today. go figure  |
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"
I refuse to apologise for rich folks who did unspeakable things way before I was born.
and yet you consistantly and regularly condone the unspeakable things that a section of rich people who are complicit with the conservative and unionist government do today. go figure "
Why was the chap who posted this asked to apologise? And to whom? |
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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago
Grantham |
"I think the protests in Belize were by anti-conservation farmers.
The Jamacian people will decide on their Independence. But independence brings a severing of political and financial help, and the worry is, like with Barbados, others will move in.
Jamaica's been independent since 1962...
Yes, they want "full" independence now.
They already have "full" independence - the debate around monarchy vs republic doesn't change that."
"full independence" were words that various Jamacian commentators were using last week! |
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"I think the protests in Belize were by anti-conservation farmers.
The Jamacian people will decide on their Independence. But independence brings a severing of political and financial help, and the worry is, like with Barbados, others will move in.
Jamaica's been independent since 1962...
Yes, they want "full" independence now.
They already have "full" independence - the debate around monarchy vs republic doesn't change that.
"full independence" were words that various Jamacian commentators were using last week! "
...and I have no idea why - unless they mean in terms of becoming a republic? |
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By *ovebjs OP Man
over a year ago
Bristol |
"
I refuse to apologise for rich folks who did unspeakable things way before I was born.
and yet you consistantly and regularly condone the unspeakable things that a section of rich people who are complicit with the conservative and unionist government do today. go figure "
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
I refuse to apologise for rich folks who did unspeakable things way before I was born.
and yet you consistantly and regularly condone the unspeakable things that a section of rich people who are complicit with the conservative and unionist government do today. go figure
"
Ar you a fascist perchance? |
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By *ovebjs OP Man
over a year ago
Bristol |
"
I refuse to apologise for rich folks who did unspeakable things way before I was born.
and yet you consistantly and regularly condone the unspeakable things that a section of rich people who are complicit with the conservative and unionist government do today. go figure
Ar you a fascist perchance?"
Is that the Same as a racist ? |
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By *ovebjs OP Man
over a year ago
Bristol |
Fascism is a movement that promotes the idea of a forcibly monolithic, regimented nation under the control of an autocratic ruler. The word fascism comes from fascio, the Italian word for bundle, which in this case represents bundles of people.
Nah that’s not me |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Fascism is a movement that promotes the idea of a forcibly monolithic, regimented nation under the control of an autocratic ruler. The word fascism comes from fascio, the Italian word for bundle, which in this case represents bundles of people.
Nah that’s not me "
Just checking |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"All of the people involved are long gone now so who is left to apologise?
I refuse to apologise for rich folks who did unspeakable things way before I was born.
Just like I would not expect my children or descendants of them to apologise for anything I might have done
Nobody ever seems to move on always harping on about the past instead of looking to the future.
But Un the end it all comes down to money not apologies "
I agree in general terms.
This generation is not responsible for what happened, nor should it apologise or pay "reparations".
However, it should honestly recognise how it exploited it's colonies and benefited as a consequence. Thus educated it should go out into the world and just be f*cking nice or at least not be k*obs.
Behave, as a nation, how you treat your kids to behave. Not that much to ask, right? |
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