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Russia asks China for Help?
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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Reports that Russia have asked China for aid. Now if true - financial aid could be easy to under given the scale of sanctions - but military aid? I thought Russia had a vast sophisticated and advanced military capability, only a fraction of which has been deployed to Ukraine?
Confused.com |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Reports that Russia have asked China for aid. Now if true - financial aid could be easy to under given the scale of sanctions - but military aid? I thought Russia had a vast sophisticated and advanced military capability, only a fraction of which has been deployed to Ukraine?
Confused.com "
Yes they do but they can barely support their own economy let alone the military that they possess.They have essentially become reliant on China and this last hurrah is so the Russian people don’t realise this is Putins true legacy to forever be the weak parody clawing at the west. |
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I think the Russian army are running out of steam, if shithead Putin did ask for military support he'll be disappointed and will fall out with them and turn on them leading to Russia and China going to war with each other.
Btw Putin is bluffing about using nukes, there should have been a no fly zone 3 weeks ago. The West shouldn't back off every time he squeaks.
He's doing the same thing Hitler and Saddam were doing with supergun threats and using histories blunders by the West and so called pathetic ancient rights to land as pathetic excuses to run rampage.
Like dealing with a pathetic school bully you force him back and hit him hard.
Let him dish the dirt on Western goverments no one is listening to him except the airheads who follow him in Russia who are cut off from the rest of the world...loosers.
Checkmate Pootin and Checkoff you little prick..
The future's so bright I gotta wear shades
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"Reports that Russia have asked China for aid. Now if true - financial aid could be easy to under given the scale of sanctions - but military aid? I thought Russia had a vast sophisticated and advanced military capability, only a fraction of which has been deployed to Ukraine?
Confused.com "
The normal flow of military assistance goes the other way; and has for decades.
So, this is a major departure for Russia - and it's not entirely likely that China will help out. There's no real upside to helping Putin.
Further down the road, after Putin is gone, China may well give all sorts of help to Russia.
The USA talking tough to China about what will happen to them if they do help Russia out right now; that's just hot air.
Let's not forget, the USA is a military and economic superpower that was unable, after 20 years of trying, to impose its will on Afghanistan; and is now reduced, in a fit of pique, to starving Afghanistan's women and children to death.
That's not the sort of nation that's going to have China quaking in its boots. |
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By *amish SMan
over a year ago
Eastleigh |
China must be really up the creek if they have taken Russian armour. Despite the might of a nuclear power like Russia trying to take over Ukraine failing miserably is not a good advert for Russian hardware.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I think the Russian army are running out of steam, if shithead Putin did ask for military support he'll be disappointed and will fall out with them and turn on them leading to Russia and China going to war with each other.
Btw Putin is bluffing about using nukes, there should have been a no fly zone 3 weeks ago. The West shouldn't back off every time he squeaks.
He's doing the same thing Hitler and Saddam were doing with supergun threats and using histories blunders by the West and so called pathetic ancient rights to land as pathetic excuses to run rampage.
Like dealing with a pathetic school bully you force him back and hit him hard.
Let him dish the dirt on Western goverments no one is listening to him except the airheads who follow him in Russia who are cut off from the rest of the world...loosers.
Checkmate Pootin and Checkoff you little prick..
The future's so bright I gotta wear shades
"
Ha! Ridiculous.
Putin has been totally clear. He says there's no point in a world without Russia. Meaning that if their state is under existential threat then he would plunge the world into disaster. How could you even risk that possibility?
You say "The future's so bright I gotta wear shades". Well it would be for 15 minutes if you were in charge, whilst those 11,000 warheads go off, followed by a very long cold period where your shades might not be of so much use, a nuclear winter. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Reports that Russia have asked China for aid. Now if true - financial aid could be easy to under given the scale of sanctions - but military aid? I thought Russia had a vast sophisticated and advanced military capability, only a fraction of which has been deployed to Ukraine?
Confused.com "
Looks like they are bullshitting, hopefully the Ukrainians will teach them a real lesson in humility.
From what is being said is that Pootin cannot sustain his invasion, its costing billions, and considering all the sanctions they are going to get hurt.
Remember one thing, China is playing the long game, it can hold out for so long, it probably will wait till the last minute before it will aid Pootin, when they are weakest, better to have a friend who is more grateful and less of a threat to your northern borders.
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"I think the Russian army are running out of steam, if shithead Putin did ask for military support he'll be disappointed and will fall out with them and turn on them leading to Russia and China going to war with each other.
Btw Putin is bluffing about using nukes, there should have been a no fly zone 3 weeks ago. The West shouldn't back off every time he squeaks.
He's doing the same thing Hitler and Saddam were doing with supergun threats and using histories blunders by the West and so called pathetic ancient rights to land as pathetic excuses to run rampage.
Like dealing with a pathetic school bully you force him back and hit him hard.
Let him dish the dirt on Western goverments no one is listening to him except the airheads who follow him in Russia who are cut off from the rest of the world...loosers.
Checkmate Pootin and Checkoff you little prick..
The future's so bright I gotta wear shades
Ha! Ridiculous.
Putin has been totally clear. He says there's no point in a world without Russia. Meaning that if their state is under existential threat then he would plunge the world into disaster. How could you even risk that possibility?
You say "The future's so bright I gotta wear shades". Well it would be for 15 minutes if you were in charge, whilst those 11,000 warheads go off, followed by a very long cold period where your shades might not be of so much use, a nuclear winter."
Given the benefit of the doubt and he does go nuclear we would still come out better off than him. Their stuff is shit. The combined nations out way him so he knows it's not an option. He's using fear as a weapon.
He's know forcing his own people to a rally for support at a Cimea celebration, a sign of weakness and insecurity.
Unlike the current leaders I don't fear Russia. I don't fear death or anything. Pootin does.
Ukraine are showing they got balls and are fighting his sudofascist ideals.
He's a trumped up KGB prick with no future.
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"interestingly chinese state media are now broadcasting pictures of the bombed school and theater and calling them Russian warcrimes that is a big political step putin even more isolated "
That’s a huge move!
Where did you see/hear about that? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"interestingly chinese state media are now broadcasting pictures of the bombed school and theater and calling them Russian warcrimes that is a big political step putin even more isolated "
That will make him sad.  |
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By *ynecplCouple
over a year ago
Newcastle upon Tyne |
"interestingly chinese state media are now broadcasting pictures of the bombed school and theater and calling them Russian warcrimes that is a big political step putin even more isolated "
That is the Chinese media that reports outside of China if is for a foreign consumption. Inside China they are being very careful not to criticise Russia.
China is looking for a way to maximise its influence from this situation. It can’t support Russia if they go on to lose in Ukraine (anything short of total capitulation by Ukraine is a loss in the eyes of the West) as that would reflect badly on China but equally it cannot purely for ideology reasons be seen to side with the West and the US in particular. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"Reports that Russia have asked China for aid. Now if true - financial aid could be easy to under given the scale of sanctions - but military aid? I thought Russia had a vast sophisticated and advanced military capability, only a fraction of which has been deployed to Ukraine?
Confused.com "
The Western tactic of publicly stating their intelligence is proving interesting.
Saving face is a big deal in Chinese culture and Russia have really proven to be a huge embarrassment.
After publicly hugging Putin close at the Olympics with the expectation of a swift victory and the West doing nothing economically, neither of these things have happened.
China is not in rude economic health right now, both with Covid and the property crisis. They need global trade and this war is screwing that up.
Their external messaging is changing because the outside world does not believe the Russian narrative, nor China's echoes of it. The internal narrative already began with assumption of a swift outcome. It is going to take some time to adjust it. To make it look like Xi was deceived by Russia who really has been doing terrible things, or some variation of a new narrative.
China does have common cause with Russia in not wanting the USA to be so influential, but they also do not want to be embarrassed in being seen to back a loser. Russia and Putin look weak and incompetent. Not something that Xi is likely to want to be associated with... |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Reports that Russia have asked China for aid. Now if true - financial aid could be easy to under given the scale of sanctions - but military aid? I thought Russia had a vast sophisticated and advanced military capability, only a fraction of which has been deployed to Ukraine?
Confused.com
The Western tactic of publicly stating their intelligence is proving interesting.
Saving face is a big deal in Chinese culture and Russia have really proven to be a huge embarrassment.
After publicly hugging Putin close at the Olympics with the expectation of a swift victory and the West doing nothing economically, neither of these things have happened.
China is not in rude economic health right now, both with Covid and the property crisis. They need global trade and this war is screwing that up.
Their external messaging is changing because the outside world does not believe the Russian narrative, nor China's echoes of it. The internal narrative already began with assumption of a swift outcome. It is going to take some time to adjust it. To make it look like Xi was deceived by Russia who really has been doing terrible things, or some variation of a new narrative.
China does have common cause with Russia in not wanting the USA to be so influential, but they also do not want to be embarrassed in being seen to back a loser. Russia and Putin look weak and incompetent. Not something that Xi is likely to want to be associated with..."
Interesting observations.
Question was why Russia approach (since they are supposed to be strong) - not about China’s motives to back them or otherwise. You’ve responded to a completely different point. But thanks all the same. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Reports that Russia have asked China for aid. Now if true - financial aid could be easy to under given the scale of sanctions - but military aid? I thought Russia had a vast sophisticated and advanced military capability, only a fraction of which has been deployed to Ukraine?
Confused.com
The Western tactic of publicly stating their intelligence is proving interesting.
Saving face is a big deal in Chinese culture and Russia have really proven to be a huge embarrassment.
After publicly hugging Putin close at the Olympics with the expectation of a swift victory and the West doing nothing economically, neither of these things have happened.
China is not in rude economic health right now, both with Covid and the property crisis. They need global trade and this war is screwing that up.
Their external messaging is changing because the outside world does not believe the Russian narrative, nor China's echoes of it. The internal narrative already began with assumption of a swift outcome. It is going to take some time to adjust it. To make it look like Xi was deceived by Russia who really has been doing terrible things, or some variation of a new narrative.
China does have common cause with Russia in not wanting the USA to be so influential, but they also do not want to be embarrassed in being seen to back a loser. Russia and Putin look weak and incompetent. Not something that Xi is likely to want to be associated with...
Interesting observations.
Question was why Russia approach (since they are supposed to be strong) - not about China’s motives to back them or otherwise. You’ve responded to a completely different point. But thanks all the same. "
What is the correct answer to your OP? |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"Reports that Russia have asked China for aid. Now if true - financial aid could be easy to under given the scale of sanctions - but military aid? I thought Russia had a vast sophisticated and advanced military capability, only a fraction of which has been deployed to Ukraine?
Confused.com "
Some interesting answers on here, especially insight into China. They certainly (to us at least) have a conundrum.
Regarding Russian military performance, I would say this has been something of a surprise as they were always perceived to be the 2nd most powerful on earth. But a lot of that was based on the power and sophistication of the USSR. It appears that they have lost significant ground in terms of equipment and also in terms of military discipline and strategy.
I would say that is in part down to 30 years of corruption on an industrial scale. It has become endemic in Russia.
The military officers won’t have been immune to this. They have witnessed virtual nobodies (during the Soviet era) become fabulously wealthy through corruption and stealing of state assets. So why not cream off something for themselves via military procurement contracts and paying “full price” for sub-standard gear.
Another factor is that they are fighting against a former Soviet Republic who has virtually the same equipment and is clearly going to be pretty familiar with Russian military doctrine.
Add to that the conscript nature of the Russian army plus the likelihood that many/most Russians would not want a war with their kin (it will feel a bit like a civil war) and Putin’s war machine is not what we all thought it was!
Number of nuclear warheads aside, looks like China are the No.2 big dog now. |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
Just to add... on the radio the other day a real military strategist (not a keen amateur like us), ex-British Army General, was saying that Putin and his General main screw up appears to be logistical.
They appear to have been so sure this would be over quickly they haven’t secured or properly planned their supply channels. Tanks initially raced ahead before running out of fuel and ammunition. The Ukrainians have allowed the Russian armour to pass by and then attacked the soft targets (tankers and supply trucks).
In addition it is Rasputitsa (sp?) the season of mud caused by thawing snow. The Russians are literally bogged down.
It’s as if they didn’t learn anything from history? Maybe because they were heading westward rather than an enemy coming eastward? |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"
….
What is the correct answer to your OP?"
I can’t be certain about ‘correct’ - only Russian military seniors will now for sure - but i suspect _irldn is near the mark. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"Reports that Russia have asked China for aid. Now if true - financial aid could be easy to under given the scale of sanctions - but military aid? I thought Russia had a vast sophisticated and advanced military capability, only a fraction of which has been deployed to Ukraine?
Confused.com
The Western tactic of publicly stating their intelligence is proving interesting.
Saving face is a big deal in Chinese culture and Russia have really proven to be a huge embarrassment.
After publicly hugging Putin close at the Olympics with the expectation of a swift victory and the West doing nothing economically, neither of these things have happened.
China is not in rude economic health right now, both with Covid and the property crisis. They need global trade and this war is screwing that up.
Their external messaging is changing because the outside world does not believe the Russian narrative, nor China's echoes of it. The internal narrative already began with assumption of a swift outcome. It is going to take some time to adjust it. To make it look like Xi was deceived by Russia who really has been doing terrible things, or some variation of a new narrative.
China does have common cause with Russia in not wanting the USA to be so influential, but they also do not want to be embarrassed in being seen to back a loser. Russia and Putin look weak and incompetent. Not something that Xi is likely to want to be associated with...
Interesting observations.
Question was why Russia approach (since they are supposed to be strong) - not about China’s motives to back them or otherwise. You’ve responded to a completely different point. But thanks all the same. "
So the question was why the Russian military has failed?
Arrogance from easy wins in Crimea and Georgia.
Intelligence failures/fear of speaking truth to power.
Conscripts.
Not properly planned, especially logistically due to assumption of surrender and fast win.
No air superiority.
Very effective leathal aid - anti-tank and anti-air.
Very high casualties.
Unexpectedly substantial and painful sanctions.
Irrational and impulsive leader. |
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Why has Russia stalled...
Bad intel
Bad logistics
Bad planning
Bad coms
The seeming inability to eradicate Ukraine air defences
The deployment of conscripts into a battle with no situational awareness or understanding of what they are fighting for.
Bad bad bad Mr Putin. Do fuck off Mr PooTin |
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Also rumour Russian Maffia might have had a role in hollowing out the Russian army for decades.... I wouldn’t be at all surprised to find the Russian army has only half the hardware and half the stockpiled supplies to what was show in the reports to the Kremlin. 4 you imagine the scenarios, 4 lorries of new ratio packs get ordered, 3 of the lorries arrive at the warehouse empty, paper work gets signed off, nobody says anything because they get a kickback or face death threats. |
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