FabSwingers.com > Forums > Politics > France force EDF to take €8.4bn hit
France force EDF to take €8.4bn hit
Jump to: Newest in thread
 |
By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
France force EDF to take €8.4bn hit with energy bill cap.
Glad that the UK has left the EU so that they can take back control and lower taxes on energy.
Didn't they guarantee lower energy costs as part of their manifesto to get Brexit done? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *rFunBoyMan
over a year ago
Longridge |
I changed to EDF last year for 3 years as it looked like markets were getting shaky.
I agree with Ed Milliband in there should have been a windfall tax of 25%-30% on Shell's announcement of £20billion profits on their "tremendous performance". Is this the reason petrol prices are still so high?
The £6b it would have generated would cover the £200 payday loans they gave put out yesterday.
Who in their right mind believes the cost of energy is coming down this year?
It's not happening. You've seen it at the pumps. Petrol was 23p per litre when I passed my test.
On top of this, Shell are getting subsidising to convert us to Hydrogen. FFS, they should be told straight, "if you want to supply into the future, then invest your own money into it".
The companies responsible for screwing up our planet for over 100 years are now getting assistance to do what they should have done years ago.
Ford invented the electric car nearly 100 years ago, he was convinced to stay with internal combustion by oil companies. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"It's owned by the French state, they're simply protecting their citizens from the hit..
"
Exactly - protecting their citizens.
Did the Tories not promise to reduce energy prices post Brexit (as a Brexit benifit)? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *rFunBoyMan
over a year ago
Longridge |
Energy companies should also be forced to offer a tariff where they cover the cost of Solar installation (government backed) where you can offset bills converting self generated energy savings into repayments to cover the system cost.
Once the costs are recovered, no further payments are required and becomes a subsidiary to energy bills - that's exactly how I paid the £5k for my system by not reducing the Direct Debits until the system cost was recover then 'drew down' the refund.
Shell made a big thing of Solar in the 90's and even bragged how much energy flagship petrol station roofs were generating. Anyone living near Bedford around 1999 would have seen the services on the A1 with a bed red LED racking up the kwh reading. I was there two years ago and it's all ripped out.
There was even TV ads claiming they are supporting change to renewable energy. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"France force EDF to take €8.4bn hit with energy bill cap.
Glad that the UK has left the EU so that they can take back control and lower taxes on energy.
Didn't they guarantee lower energy costs as part of their manifesto to get Brexit done?"
EDF have lost more than 40% of its market value within the last month but a smart move by macron with an election coming up. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ackal1Couple
over a year ago
Manchester |
"France force EDF to take €8.4bn hit with energy bill cap.
Glad that the UK has left the EU so that they can take back control and lower taxes on energy.
Didn't they guarantee lower energy costs as part of their manifesto to get Brexit done?EDF have lost more than 40% of its market value within the last month but a smart move by macron with an election coming up."
So shareholders take sone pain but consumers benefit. Looks like a good move to me. Macron looks good and people can afford their bills. You don’t heat homes with share certificates and only lose if you sell. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"France force EDF to take €8.4bn hit with energy bill cap.
Glad that the UK has left the EU so that they can take back control and lower taxes on energy.
Didn't they guarantee lower energy costs as part of their manifesto to get Brexit done?EDF have lost more than 40% of its market value within the last month but a smart move by macron with an election coming up.
So shareholders take sone pain but consumers benefit. Looks like a good move to me. Macron looks good and people can afford their bills. You don’t heat homes with share certificates and only lose if you sell. "
British energy bills rise by 54%
French energy bills rise by 4 % |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ackal1Couple
over a year ago
Manchester |
"France force EDF to take €8.4bn hit with energy bill cap.
Glad that the UK has left the EU so that they can take back control and lower taxes on energy.
Didn't they guarantee lower energy costs as part of their manifesto to get Brexit done?EDF have lost more than 40% of its market value within the last month but a smart move by macron with an election coming up.
So shareholders take sone pain but consumers benefit. Looks like a good move to me. Macron looks good and people can afford their bills. You don’t heat homes with share certificates and only lose if you sell.
British energy bills rise by 54%
French energy bills rise by 4 %"
Im getting really disillusioned by privatisation . It just seems to exploit the large scale of certain industries to make a few wealthy but most poorer
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"France force EDF to take €8.4bn hit with energy bill cap.
Glad that the UK has left the EU so that they can take back control and lower taxes on energy.
Didn't they guarantee lower energy costs as part of their manifesto to get Brexit done?EDF have lost more than 40% of its market value within the last month but a smart move by macron with an election coming up.
So shareholders take sone pain but consumers benefit. Looks like a good move to me. Macron looks good and people can afford their bills. You don’t heat homes with share certificates and only lose if you sell.
British energy bills rise by 54%
French energy bills rise by 4 %
Im getting really disillusioned by privatisation . It just seems to exploit the large scale of certain industries to make a few wealthy but most poorer
"
most private pensions are funded by them.  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ackal1Couple
over a year ago
Manchester |
"France force EDF to take €8.4bn hit with energy bill cap.
Glad that the UK has left the EU so that they can take back control and lower taxes on energy.
Didn't they guarantee lower energy costs as part of their manifesto to get Brexit done?EDF have lost more than 40% of its market value within the last month but a smart move by macron with an election coming up.
So shareholders take sone pain but consumers benefit. Looks like a good move to me. Macron looks good and people can afford their bills. You don’t heat homes with share certificates and only lose if you sell.
British energy bills rise by 54%
French energy bills rise by 4 %
Im getting really disillusioned by privatisation . It just seems to exploit the large scale of certain industries to make a few wealthy but most poorer
most private pensions are funded by them. "
There’s enough private companies in the world to invest in I think you’ll agree . Amazon , Google, Coca Cola , Unilever , Proctor and gamble etc etc No critical infrastructure there. And those who work can in government can still pay into a pension of their choice just like private employees. Now there’s an idea !! So all is well with the pension funds .
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"France force EDF to take €8.4bn hit with energy bill cap.
Glad that the UK has left the EU so that they can take back control and lower taxes on energy.
Didn't they guarantee lower energy costs as part of their manifesto to get Brexit done?EDF have lost more than 40% of its market value within the last month but a smart move by macron with an election coming up.
So shareholders take sone pain but consumers benefit. Looks like a good move to me. Macron looks good and people can afford their bills. You don’t heat homes with share certificates and only lose if you sell. "
. If you pay tax in France it is simply a case of swings and roundabouts. You energy bill might be lower but taxes are at a much higher rate |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"France force EDF to take €8.4bn hit with energy bill cap.
Glad that the UK has left the EU so that they can take back control and lower taxes on energy.
Didn't they guarantee lower energy costs as part of their manifesto to get Brexit done?EDF have lost more than 40% of its market value within the last month but a smart move by macron with an election coming up.
So shareholders take sone pain but consumers benefit. Looks like a good move to me. Macron looks good and people can afford their bills. You don’t heat homes with share certificates and only lose if you sell.
British energy bills rise by 54%
French energy bills rise by 4 %
Im getting really disillusioned by privatisation . It just seems to exploit the large scale of certain industries to make a few wealthy but most poorer
most private pensions are funded by them.
There’s enough private companies in the world to invest in I think you’ll agree . Amazon , Google, Coca Cola , Unilever , Proctor and gamble etc etc No critical infrastructure there. And those who work can in government can still pay into a pension of their choice just like private employees. Now there’s an idea !! So all is well with the pension funds .
"
what people fail to remember is that when the uk nationalized companies were sold off is that they all needed billions of pounds to update them and like the water and rail and massive investment for the increase of electric consumption investors paid for this. If they were not privatised the uk tax payer would have been paying for it. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"France force EDF to take €8.4bn hit with energy bill cap.
Glad that the UK has left the EU so that they can take back control and lower taxes on energy.
Didn't they guarantee lower energy costs as part of their manifesto to get Brexit done?EDF have lost more than 40% of its market value within the last month but a smart move by macron with an election coming up.
So shareholders take sone pain but consumers benefit. Looks like a good move to me. Macron looks good and people can afford their bills. You don’t heat homes with share certificates and only lose if you sell.
British energy bills rise by 54%
French energy bills rise by 4 %
Im getting really disillusioned by privatisation . It just seems to exploit the large scale of certain industries to make a few wealthy but most poorer
most private pensions are funded by them. "
. Surely the opposite is the case . The shares in utility companies are owned by a large number of private shareholders and various pension funds . The dividend income simply provides income to pensioners. Publicly owned companies are generally much more efficient that state owned ones. Prior to the privatisation of BT you had to wait up to six months for a new line and were compelled to rent a phone from them. .
On a simplistic basis the various privatised utility companies are owned by the people wit with shares registered in their name directly or via various pension funds .
Many working class people have benefitted from privatisation. In the case of the NFC some drivers who were members of the share save scheme became millionaires . |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ackal1Couple
over a year ago
Manchester |
"France force EDF to take €8.4bn hit with energy bill cap.
Glad that the UK has left the EU so that they can take back control and lower taxes on energy.
Didn't they guarantee lower energy costs as part of their manifesto to get Brexit done?EDF have lost more than 40% of its market value within the last month but a smart move by macron with an election coming up.
So shareholders take sone pain but consumers benefit. Looks like a good move to me. Macron looks good and people can afford their bills. You don’t heat homes with share certificates and only lose if you sell.
British energy bills rise by 54%
French energy bills rise by 4 %
Im getting really disillusioned by privatisation . It just seems to exploit the large scale of certain industries to make a few wealthy but most poorer
most private pensions are funded by them.
There’s enough private companies in the world to invest in I think you’ll agree . Amazon , Google, Coca Cola , Unilever , Proctor and gamble etc etc No critical infrastructure there. And those who work can in government can still pay into a pension of their choice just like private employees. Now there’s an idea !! So all is well with the pension funds .
what people fail to remember is that when the uk nationalized companies were sold off is that they all needed billions of pounds to update them and like the water and rail and massive investment for the increase of electric consumption investors paid for this. If they were not privatised the uk tax payer would have been paying for it."
I agree with you Costa they did need money and that lines up with my bad management and lack of investment . Since being privatised the water companies have paid billions out in dividends but not invested enough obviously. 400k sewage into rivers incidents.
The French seem to manage as they sell us electricity. Their train services makes ours look antique . Suez and Veolia run at least half of The French water systems but they are being slowly taken back into public ownership such as Paris in 2020.
I’m not claiming to know how to do this but it’s blatantly not working if we don’t have a proper plan in place and money is being ripped out of the utilities for investors while prices for the consumer keep rising.
I just think the whole thing is failing and as I said I thought it was a great idea years ago.
Regards to other privatisations yes get rid of what isn’t infrastructure but the basics should remain in government hands . |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"France force EDF to take €8.4bn hit with energy bill cap.
Glad that the UK has left the EU so that they can take back control and lower taxes on energy.
Didn't they guarantee lower energy costs as part of their manifesto to get Brexit done?"
This is old news really, the French government did this several weeks ago around the middle of January. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ackal1Couple
over a year ago
Manchester |
"France force EDF to take €8.4bn hit with energy bill cap.
Glad that the UK has left the EU so that they can take back control and lower taxes on energy.
Didn't they guarantee lower energy costs as part of their manifesto to get Brexit done?
This is old news really, the French government did this several weeks ago around the middle of January."
Good news for the French customers though.  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"
This is old news really, the French government did this several weeks ago around the middle of January."
Yes - old news.
Pity that the UK (who promised to reduce energy costs due to Brexit) still has not done so.
What is not old news is that the UK is facing the highest inflation and rise in the cost of living in 30 years!
Didn't see that on the side of a bus. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"
This is old news really, the French government did this several weeks ago around the middle of January.
Yes - old news.
Pity that the UK (who promised to reduce energy costs due to Brexit) still has not done so.
What is not old news is that the UK is facing the highest inflation and rise in the cost of living in 30 years!
Didn't see that on the side of a bus."
It is a pity, but then I didn't vote for brexit so I never expected it anyway. Cant remember inflation being on the famous bus but inflation is a global problem not just a UK one, its running 5% plus in some of Europe and over 7% in the States, and 49% in Turkey just as few examples. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"France force EDF to take €8.4bn hit with energy bill cap.
Glad that the UK has left the EU so that they can take back control and lower taxes on energy.
Didn't they guarantee lower energy costs as part of their manifesto to get Brexit done?
This is old news really, the French government did this several weeks ago around the middle of January.
Good news for the French customers though. "
Yes it is, not sure if they might have to pay for it later though so to speak, but definitely good now when many are in real need of some help. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ackal1Couple
over a year ago
Manchester |
"France force EDF to take €8.4bn hit with energy bill cap.
Glad that the UK has left the EU so that they can take back control and lower taxes on energy.
Didn't they guarantee lower energy costs as part of their manifesto to get Brexit done?
This is old news really, the French government did this several weeks ago around the middle of January.
Good news for the French customers though.
Yes it is, not sure if they might have to pay for it later though so to speak, but definitely good now when many are in real need of some help. "
Yes and our government take an extra £35 in VAT but give a net £115 for this year . Not much help especially if you’ve paying NI and on a low wage on top of rising costs .
Then they will lend you £200 to pay back on top of your future bills . The government will be getting that VAT from everyone though and getting it for years . |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"France force EDF to take €8.4bn hit with energy bill cap.
Glad that the UK has left the EU so that they can take back control and lower taxes on energy.
Didn't they guarantee lower energy costs as part of their manifesto to get Brexit done?
This is old news really, the French government did this several weeks ago around the middle of January.
Good news for the French customers though.
Yes it is, not sure if they might have to pay for it later though so to speak, but definitely good now when many are in real need of some help.
Yes and our government take an extra £35 in VAT but give a net £115 for this year . Not much help especially if you’ve paying NI and on a low wage on top of rising costs .
Then they will lend you £200 to pay back on top of your future bills . The government will be getting that VAT from everyone though and getting it for years . "
Yes I know i saw the announcement when it was made the other day. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Then they will lend you £200 to pay back on top of your future bills . The government will be getting that VAT from everyone though and getting it for years . "
is that on top of the money that pays back for the boiler scrappage scheme, the wall insulation scheme, the loft insulation scheme, hinckley point nuclear power station and the massive cost per kwh etc that will be added to our bills for decades to come? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ackal1Couple
over a year ago
Manchester |
"Then they will lend you £200 to pay back on top of your future bills . The government will be getting that VAT from everyone though and getting it for years .
is that on top of the money that pays back for the boiler scrappage scheme, the wall insulation scheme, the loft insulation scheme, hinckley point nuclear power station and the massive cost per kwh etc that will be added to our bills for decades to come? "
Wonder if that amounts to the dividends paid out since privatisation? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"…..
Im getting really disillusioned by privatisation . It just seems to exploit the large scale of certain industries to make a few wealthy but most poorer
"
I’m really confused what people actually thought privatisation was intended to do other than precisely that?
All the gumph about efficiency was the “pro privatisation” equivalent of the bullshit the Leave ship spouted about Brexit. It was designed to make the idea more appealing to the masses and get them on board with the plan…. Look you can even have a small share if the success!
Now I’m not at all against private enterprise and capitalism. But society needs to have eyes wide open what that entails.
Health, Education and security will be next at some point. Little left to sell off. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"
It is a pity, but then I didn't vote for brexit so I never expected it anyway. Cant remember inflation being on the famous bus but inflation is a global problem not just a UK one, its running 5% plus in some of Europe and over 7% in the States, and 49% in Turkey just as few examples."
Ahhh Turkey
The country which Farage told us was to join the EU.
Not really comparable with the UK really or do we now see the UK as having a similar economy and goverment as Turkey?
UK inflation is running pretty high in comparison with our neighbours in mainland Europe however
https://tradingeconomics.com/country-list/inflation-rate?continent=europe
although by no means the highest it does not make it any easier for people who are now struggling to heat their homes, to feed their children and to pay their rent.
The Tory Gov't presented a manifesto which promised a land of milk and honey. They were voted into power and the UK left the EU in the belief that this was true or, at worst, they would be no worse off.
...and here we are.
Great Britain, the laughing stock of the World where the media don't question if the PM has lied but ask how many time he has lied each day.
The people have been let down by the wealthy Eton Cabal and made a fool of.
The rich get richer, avoid paying taxes whilst the ordinary people suffer to keep them in their country homes, their hunting lodges and pay to keep their stables warm.
Make them keep their promises. Cap fuel bills and curb inflation.
They can spaff billions on track and trace, PPE etc.
They can write off billions without even investigation it on false claims for furlough yet they can't even afford to give the lowest paid a pay rise.
There is something wrong somewhere.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"
It is a pity, but then I didn't vote for brexit so I never expected it anyway. Cant remember inflation being on the famous bus but inflation is a global problem not just a UK one, its running 5% plus in some of Europe and over 7% in the States, and 49% in Turkey just as few examples.
Ahhh Turkey
The country which Farage told us was to join the EU.
Not really comparable with the UK really or do we now see the UK as having a similar economy and goverment as Turkey?
UK inflation is running pretty high in comparison with our neighbours in mainland Europe however
https://tradingeconomics.com/country-list/inflation-rate?continent=europe
although by no means the highest it does not make it any easier for people who are now struggling to heat their homes, to feed their children and to pay their rent.
The Tory Gov't presented a manifesto which promised a land of milk and honey. They were voted into power and the UK left the EU in the belief that this was true or, at worst, they would be no worse off.
...and here we are.
Great Britain, the laughing stock of the World where the media don't question if the PM has lied but ask how many time he has lied each day.
The people have been let down by the wealthy Eton Cabal and made a fool of.
The rich get richer, avoid paying taxes whilst the ordinary people suffer to keep them in their country homes, their hunting lodges and pay to keep their stables warm.
Make them keep their promises. Cap fuel bills and curb inflation.
They can spaff billions on track and trace, PPE etc.
They can write off billions without even investigation it on false claims for furlough yet they can't even afford to give the lowest paid a pay rise.
There is something wrong somewhere.
"
I think it is working exactly to design. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"
It is a pity, but then I didn't vote for brexit so I never expected it anyway. Cant remember inflation being on the famous bus but inflation is a global problem not just a UK one, its running 5% plus in some of Europe and over 7% in the States, and 49% in Turkey just as few examples.
Ahhh Turkey
The country which Farage told us was to join the EU.
Not really comparable with the UK really or do we now see the UK as having a similar economy and goverment as Turkey?
UK inflation is running pretty high in comparison with our neighbours in mainland Europe however
https://tradingeconomics.com/country-list/inflation-rate?continent=europe
although by no means the highest it does not make it any easier for people who are now struggling to heat their homes, to feed their children and to pay their rent.
The Tory Gov't presented a manifesto which promised a land of milk and honey. They were voted into power and the UK left the EU in the belief that this was true or, at worst, they would be no worse off.
...and here we are.
Great Britain, the laughing stock of the World where the media don't question if the PM has lied but ask how many time he has lied each day.
The people have been let down by the wealthy Eton Cabal and made a fool of.
The rich get richer, avoid paying taxes whilst the ordinary people suffer to keep them in their country homes, their hunting lodges and pay to keep their stables warm.
Make them keep their promises. Cap fuel bills and curb inflation.
They can spaff billions on track and trace, PPE etc.
They can write off billions without even investigation it on false claims for furlough yet they can't even afford to give the lowest paid a pay rise.
There is something wrong somewhere.
"
No i do not see Turkey as comparable to the uk economy because its not. I was referring to inflation not economic size or government. I didnt just mention Turkey either if you re read my post. You can name just about any country in the world and inflation has risen. No idea about farage or what that has to do with inflation and am really not interested in what that guy says to be honest. As someone who operates a business that trades globally i understand inflation and its driving factors very well and although brexit has had some effect it is not the main driving factor at all which is what you appear to be implying. You say Europe is doing better than here, some are but
not all. Spain has its highest rate since 1989, Germany has its highest since 1992 and there are many more, and there will be many people in Europe the uk the States and everywhere else that are going to be in for a really tough time for a few years. Some countries debt levels and spending commitments are also very worrying and if things don't change i see a big financial problem coming down the road in the next few years. As regards the rest of your post its wasted on me because as I said before I didn't vote for brexit and I didn't consequently vote Tory either, so you are ranting at the wrong person. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ackal1Couple
over a year ago
Manchester |
"…..
Im getting really disillusioned by privatisation . It just seems to exploit the large scale of certain industries to make a few wealthy but most poorer
I’m really confused what people actually thought privatisation was intended to do other than precisely that?
All the gumph about efficiency was the “pro privatisation” equivalent of the bullshit the Leave ship spouted about Brexit. It was designed to make the idea more appealing to the masses and get them on board with the plan…. Look you can even have a small share if the success!
Now I’m not at all against private enterprise and capitalism. But society needs to have eyes wide open what that entails.
Health, Education and security will be next at some point. Little left to sell off. "
Maybe you missed the three day week and the lights being switched off most of the time? Or perhaps you used wood instead of coal when the miners kept going on strike. The bin men working to rule leaving shit in the streets.
It all needed a shake up but the implementation was a free for all without a long term structural aim.
Unlike Brexit which is just bullshit and negative, the whole thing around privatisation was the desperate need for modernisation. So change was needed and the only option offered was privatisation. The private sector was far more efficient but the money wasn’t re invested sadly. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"…..
Im getting really disillusioned by privatisation . It just seems to exploit the large scale of certain industries to make a few wealthy but most poorer
I’m really confused what people actually thought privatisation was intended to do other than precisely that?
All the gumph about efficiency was the “pro privatisation” equivalent of the bullshit the Leave ship spouted about Brexit. It was designed to make the idea more appealing to the masses and get them on board with the plan…. Look you can even have a small share if the success!
Now I’m not at all against private enterprise and capitalism. But society needs to have eyes wide open what that entails.
Health, Education and security will be next at some point. Little left to sell off.
Maybe you missed the three day week and the lights being switched off most of the time? Or perhaps you used wood instead of coal when the miners kept going on strike. The bin men working to rule leaving shit in the streets.
It all needed a shake up but the implementation was a free for all without a long term structural aim.
Unlike Brexit which is just bullshit and negative, the whole thing around privatisation was the desperate need for modernisation. So change was needed and the only option offered was privatisation. The private sector was far more efficient but the money wasn’t re invested sadly. "
I get really fed up with the "private sector far more efficient". I worked for a major oil and gas company and dealt with gas suppliers. The inefficiency and waste was massive. The idea that private bests public, or vice versa, is bollocks. What matters is how the organisation is run and what are the regulations and guidelines, etc. The biggest issue in the UK is bad management and short termism, the same being very obvious in Government. Why is it that so much of our infrastructure is now owned by state companies from other countries, like EDF? In this country we see the tories privatising and basically letting the new owners run the company under very different rules and regulations. The likes of BG were required to have long term gas resources, be that owned or long term contracts, to keep prices stable. Now we have companies that are wholly dependent on the spot market. The issues we are now seeing were being highlighted 20 - 30 years ago. It's true that "you can't buck the market", but you can cushion yourself from these kind of shocks. We have had Goverment's who don't care about what happens until it dies, who don't care to actually find out how various industries work. If other countries, especially in the EU, can have very successful state owned companies why can't we do the same? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"…..
Im getting really disillusioned by privatisation . It just seems to exploit the large scale of certain industries to make a few wealthy but most poorer
I’m really confused what people actually thought privatisation was intended to do other than precisely that?
All the gumph about efficiency was the “pro privatisation” equivalent of the bullshit the Leave ship spouted about Brexit. It was designed to make the idea more appealing to the masses and get them on board with the plan…. Look you can even have a small share if the success!
Now I’m not at all against private enterprise and capitalism. But society needs to have eyes wide open what that entails.
Health, Education and security will be next at some point. Little left to sell off.
Maybe you missed the three day week and the lights being switched off most of the time? Or perhaps you used wood instead of coal when the miners kept going on strike. The bin men working to rule leaving shit in the streets.
It all needed a shake up but the implementation was a free for all without a long term structural aim.
Unlike Brexit which is just bullshit and negative, the whole thing around privatisation was the desperate need for modernisation. So change was needed and the only option offered was privatisation. The private sector was far more efficient but the money wasn’t re invested sadly.
I get really fed up with the "private sector far more efficient". I worked for a major oil and gas company and dealt with gas suppliers. The inefficiency and waste was massive. The idea that private bests public, or vice versa, is bollocks. What matters is how the organisation is run and what are the regulations and guidelines, etc. The biggest issue in the UK is bad management and short termism, the same being very obvious in Government. Why is it that so much of our infrastructure is now owned by state companies from other countries, like EDF? In this country we see the tories privatising and basically letting the new owners run the company under very different rules and regulations. The likes of BG were required to have long term gas resources, be that owned or long term contracts, to keep prices stable. Now we have companies that are wholly dependent on the spot market. The issues we are now seeing were being highlighted 20 - 30 years ago. It's true that "you can't buck the market", but you can cushion yourself from these kind of shocks. We have had Goverment's who don't care about what happens until it dies, who don't care to actually find out how various industries work. If other countries, especially in the EU, can have very successful state owned companies why can't we do the same? "
Precisely my point. Nobody’s arguing agains the historical need to modernise. But that can also apply to the private sector. But the trick of ‘public is crap let’s privatise to modernise’ was really aimed at getting the wealth generation capability of the public assets.
The energy ‘market’ was all well and fine when we were able to choose - but decades of indecision and lack investment in diversification (for base load not the eco ‘icing’ on top of the cake) have now royally fecked us in the arse. Both government regulation and policy as well as putting profits before supply security have failed the nation.
There is much inefficiency in the private sector too. But it is often masked as ‘incentives’ or ‘innovation’ and subject to less scrutiny so long as a company is making profits. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ackal1Couple
over a year ago
Manchester |
"…..
Im getting really disillusioned by privatisation . It just seems to exploit the large scale of certain industries to make a few wealthy but most poorer
I’m really confused what people actually thought privatisation was intended to do other than precisely that?
All the gumph about efficiency was the “pro privatisation” equivalent of the bullshit the Leave ship spouted about Brexit. It was designed to make the idea more appealing to the masses and get them on board with the plan…. Look you can even have a small share if the success!
Now I’m not at all against private enterprise and capitalism. But society needs to have eyes wide open what that entails.
Health, Education and security will be next at some point. Little left to sell off.
Maybe you missed the three day week and the lights being switched off most of the time? Or perhaps you used wood instead of coal when the miners kept going on strike. The bin men working to rule leaving shit in the streets.
It all needed a shake up but the implementation was a free for all without a long term structural aim.
Unlike Brexit which is just bullshit and negative, the whole thing around privatisation was the desperate need for modernisation. So change was needed and the only option offered was privatisation. The private sector was far more efficient but the money wasn’t re invested sadly.
I get really fed up with the "private sector far more efficient". I worked for a major oil and gas company and dealt with gas suppliers. The inefficiency and waste was massive. The idea that private bests public, or vice versa, is bollocks. What matters is how the organisation is run and what are the regulations and guidelines, etc. The biggest issue in the UK is bad management and short termism, the same being very obvious in Government. Why is it that so much of our infrastructure is now owned by state companies from other countries, like EDF? In this country we see the tories privatising and basically letting the new owners run the company under very different rules and regulations. The likes of BG were required to have long term gas resources, be that owned or long term contracts, to keep prices stable. Now we have companies that are wholly dependent on the spot market. The issues we are now seeing were being highlighted 20 - 30 years ago. It's true that "you can't buck the market", but you can cushion yourself from these kind of shocks. We have had Goverment's who don't care about what happens until it dies, who don't care to actually find out how various industries work. If other countries, especially in the EU, can have very successful state owned companies why can't we do the same? "
You can’t avoid the fact that public sector businesses generally waste money and over employ. That’s fact. Look at the NHS over- burdened with managers that manage each other.
I agree sone major corporations do operate inefficiently and waste billions which is why companies get taken over by others . Remember you can also be sacked a lot easier as private industry has generally clearer lines of accountability. Also for private companies when they lose money it’s their own and not the tax payers. They don’t get a free top up of cash . They have to borrow and pay it back with their own income not just raise more tax.
In the past a job in the civil service was for life and if you were crap you got moved not sacked.
Thing have improved I can see that ( maybe not the NHS). but forty years ago it was criminal what was allowed.
Btw my criticism of the NHS is how it’s structured and managed by an over bloated management structure not the front line workers.
Definitely too many chiefs and not enough Indians. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ackal1Couple
over a year ago
Manchester |
So we can conclude that in 40 years our governments have taken the privatisation, oil money along with ever more tax and squandered every opportunity to improve our financial well-being.
In those 40 years our economy has doubled in size and yet those on middle or low incomes are no better off. Why is that? ( population has gone up 20% so definitely more per person). Where’s the cash? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"…..
Im getting really disillusioned by privatisation . It just seems to exploit the large scale of certain industries to make a few wealthy but most poorer
I’m really confused what people actually thought privatisation was intended to do other than precisely that?
All the gumph about efficiency was the “pro privatisation” equivalent of the bullshit the Leave ship spouted about Brexit. It was designed to make the idea more appealing to the masses and get them on board with the plan…. Look you can even have a small share if the success!
Now I’m not at all against private enterprise and capitalism. But society needs to have eyes wide open what that entails.
Health, Education and security will be next at some point. Little left to sell off.
Maybe you missed the three day week and the lights being switched off most of the time? Or perhaps you used wood instead of coal when the miners kept going on strike. The bin men working to rule leaving shit in the streets.
It all needed a shake up but the implementation was a free for all without a long term structural aim.
Unlike Brexit which is just bullshit and negative, the whole thing around privatisation was the desperate need for modernisation. So change was needed and the only option offered was privatisation. The private sector was far more efficient but the money wasn’t re invested sadly.
I get really fed up with the "private sector far more efficient". I worked for a major oil and gas company and dealt with gas suppliers. The inefficiency and waste was massive. The idea that private bests public, or vice versa, is bollocks. What matters is how the organisation is run and what are the regulations and guidelines, etc. The biggest issue in the UK is bad management and short termism, the same being very obvious in Government. Why is it that so much of our infrastructure is now owned by state companies from other countries, like EDF? In this country we see the tories privatising and basically letting the new owners run the company under very different rules and regulations. The likes of BG were required to have long term gas resources, be that owned or long term contracts, to keep prices stable. Now we have companies that are wholly dependent on the spot market. The issues we are now seeing were being highlighted 20 - 30 years ago. It's true that "you can't buck the market", but you can cushion yourself from these kind of shocks. We have had Goverment's who don't care about what happens until it dies, who don't care to actually find out how various industries work. If other countries, especially in the EU, can have very successful state owned companies why can't we do the same?
You can’t avoid the fact that public sector businesses generally waste money and over employ. That’s fact. Look at the NHS over- burdened with managers that manage each other.
I agree sone major corporations do operate inefficiently and waste billions which is why companies get taken over by others . Remember you can also be sacked a lot easier as private industry has generally clearer lines of accountability. Also for private companies when they lose money it’s their own and not the tax payers. They don’t get a free top up of cash . They have to borrow and pay it back with their own income not just raise more tax.
In the past a job in the civil service was for life and if you were crap you got moved not sacked.
Thing have improved I can see that ( maybe not the NHS). but forty years ago it was criminal what was allowed.
Btw my criticism of the NHS is how it’s structured and managed by an over bloated management structure not the front line workers.
Definitely too many chiefs and not enough Indians. "
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"…..
Im getting really disillusioned by privatisation . It just seems to exploit the large scale of certain industries to make a few wealthy but most poorer
I’m really confused what people actually thought privatisation was intended to do other than precisely that?
All the gumph about efficiency was the “pro privatisation” equivalent of the bullshit the Leave ship spouted about Brexit. It was designed to make the idea more appealing to the masses and get them on board with the plan…. Look you can even have a small share if the success!
Now I’m not at all against private enterprise and capitalism. But society needs to have eyes wide open what that entails.
Health, Education and security will be next at some point. Little left to sell off.
Maybe you missed the three day week and the lights being switched off most of the time? Or perhaps you used wood instead of coal when the miners kept going on strike. The bin men working to rule leaving shit in the streets.
It all needed a shake up but the implementation was a free for all without a long term structural aim.
Unlike Brexit which is just bullshit and negative, the whole thing around privatisation was the desperate need for modernisation. So change was needed and the only option offered was privatisation. The private sector was far more efficient but the money wasn’t re invested sadly.
I get really fed up with the "private sector far more efficient". I worked for a major oil and gas company and dealt with gas suppliers. The inefficiency and waste was massive. The idea that private bests public, or vice versa, is bollocks. What matters is how the organisation is run and what are the regulations and guidelines, etc. The biggest issue in the UK is bad management and short termism, the same being very obvious in Government. Why is it that so much of our infrastructure is now owned by state companies from other countries, like EDF? In this country we see the tories privatising and basically letting the new owners run the company under very different rules and regulations. The likes of BG were required to have long term gas resources, be that owned or long term contracts, to keep prices stable. Now we have companies that are wholly dependent on the spot market. The issues we are now seeing were being highlighted 20 - 30 years ago. It's true that "you can't buck the market", but you can cushion yourself from these kind of shocks. We have had Goverment's who don't care about what happens until it dies, who don't care to actually find out how various industries work. If other countries, especially in the EU, can have very successful state owned companies why can't we do the same?
You can’t avoid the fact that public sector businesses generally waste money and over employ. That’s fact. Look at the NHS over- burdened with managers that manage each other.
I agree sone major corporations do operate inefficiently and waste billions which is why companies get taken over by others . Remember you can also be sacked a lot easier as private industry has generally clearer lines of accountability. Also for private companies when they lose money it’s their own and not the tax payers. They don’t get a free top up of cash . They have to borrow and pay it back with their own income not just raise more tax.
In the past a job in the civil service was for life and if you were crap you got moved not sacked.
Thing have improved I can see that ( maybe not the NHS). but forty years ago it was criminal what was allowed.
Btw my criticism of the NHS is how it’s structured and managed by an over bloated management structure not the front line workers.
Definitely too many chiefs and not enough Indians. "
Having worked for a major oil and gas company I can say that every criticism you make of public companies definitely applies to private companies. If public companies are so inefficient why are there so many foreign owned nationally owned companies operating so much in the UK market? Actually used to deal with EDF. The one thing I'd say was that my experience was that the worst management was always British, usually English. Always the impression they were far more interested in the status rather than doing the job and always promoting pals and / or arse lickers. It does seem to be a problem that we don't seem to produce good managers. The current kakistocracy running the country into the ground being a prime example. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"…..
Im getting really disillusioned by privatisation . It just seems to exploit the large scale of certain industries to make a few wealthy but most poorer
I’m really confused what people actually thought privatisation was intended to do other than precisely that?
All the gumph about efficiency was the “pro privatisation” equivalent of the bullshit the Leave ship spouted about Brexit. It was designed to make the idea more appealing to the masses and get them on board with the plan…. Look you can even have a small share if the success!
Now I’m not at all against private enterprise and capitalism. But society needs to have eyes wide open what that entails.
Health, Education and security will be next at some point. Little left to sell off.
Maybe you missed the three day week and the lights being switched off most of the time? Or perhaps you used wood instead of coal when the miners kept going on strike. The bin men working to rule leaving shit in the streets.
It all needed a shake up but the implementation was a free for all without a long term structural aim.
Unlike Brexit which is just bullshit and negative, the whole thing around privatisation was the desperate need for modernisation. So change was needed and the only option offered was privatisation. The private sector was far more efficient but the money wasn’t re invested sadly.
I get really fed up with the "private sector far more efficient". I worked for a major oil and gas company and dealt with gas suppliers. The inefficiency and waste was massive. The idea that private bests public, or vice versa, is bollocks. What matters is how the organisation is run and what are the regulations and guidelines, etc. The biggest issue in the UK is bad management and short termism, the same being very obvious in Government. Why is it that so much of our infrastructure is now owned by state companies from other countries, like EDF? In this country we see the tories privatising and basically letting the new owners run the company under very different rules and regulations. The likes of BG were required to have long term gas resources, be that owned or long term contracts, to keep prices stable. Now we have companies that are wholly dependent on the spot market. The issues we are now seeing were being highlighted 20 - 30 years ago. It's true that "you can't buck the market", but you can cushion yourself from these kind of shocks. We have had Goverment's who don't care about what happens until it dies, who don't care to actually find out how various industries work. If other countries, especially in the EU, can have very successful state owned companies why can't we do the same?
You can’t avoid the fact that public sector businesses generally waste money and over employ. That’s fact. Look at the NHS over- burdened with managers that manage each other.
I agree sone major corporations do operate inefficiently and waste billions which is why companies get taken over by others . Remember you can also be sacked a lot easier as private industry has generally clearer lines of accountability. Also for private companies when they lose money it’s their own and not the tax payers. They don’t get a free top up of cash . They have to borrow and pay it back with their own income not just raise more tax.
In the past a job in the civil service was for life and if you were crap you got moved not sacked.
Thing have improved I can see that ( maybe not the NHS). but forty years ago it was criminal what was allowed.
Btw my criticism of the NHS is how it’s structured and managed by an over bloated management structure not the front line workers.
Definitely too many chiefs and not enough Indians.
Having worked for a major oil and gas company I can say that every criticism you make of public companies definitely applies to private companies. If public companies are so inefficient why are there so many foreign owned nationally owned companies operating so much in the UK market? Actually used to deal with EDF. The one thing I'd say was that my experience was that the worst management was always British, usually English. Always the impression they were far more interested in the status rather than doing the job and always promoting pals and / or arse lickers. It does seem to be a problem that we don't seem to produce good managers. The current kakistocracy running the country into the ground being a prime example. "
thats a lot of writing just to knock the English.  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago
North West |
"…..
Im getting really disillusioned by privatisation . It just seems to exploit the large scale of certain industries to make a few wealthy but most poorer
I’m really confused what people actually thought privatisation was intended to do other than precisely that?
All the gumph about efficiency was the “pro privatisation” equivalent of the bullshit the Leave ship spouted about Brexit. It was designed to make the idea more appealing to the masses and get them on board with the plan…. Look you can even have a small share if the success!
Now I’m not at all against private enterprise and capitalism. But society needs to have eyes wide open what that entails.
Health, Education and security will be next at some point. Little left to sell off.
Maybe you missed the three day week and the lights being switched off most of the time? Or perhaps you used wood instead of coal when the miners kept going on strike. The bin men working to rule leaving shit in the streets.
It all needed a shake up but the implementation was a free for all without a long term structural aim.
Unlike Brexit which is just bullshit and negative, the whole thing around privatisation was the desperate need for modernisation. So change was needed and the only option offered was privatisation. The private sector was far more efficient but the money wasn’t re invested sadly.
I get really fed up with the "private sector far more efficient". I worked for a major oil and gas company and dealt with gas suppliers. The inefficiency and waste was massive. The idea that private bests public, or vice versa, is bollocks. What matters is how the organisation is run and what are the regulations and guidelines, etc. The biggest issue in the UK is bad management and short termism, the same being very obvious in Government. Why is it that so much of our infrastructure is now owned by state companies from other countries, like EDF? In this country we see the tories privatising and basically letting the new owners run the company under very different rules and regulations. The likes of BG were required to have long term gas resources, be that owned or long term contracts, to keep prices stable. Now we have companies that are wholly dependent on the spot market. The issues we are now seeing were being highlighted 20 - 30 years ago. It's true that "you can't buck the market", but you can cushion yourself from these kind of shocks. We have had Goverment's who don't care about what happens until it dies, who don't care to actually find out how various industries work. If other countries, especially in the EU, can have very successful state owned companies why can't we do the same?
You can’t avoid the fact that public sector businesses generally waste money and over employ. That’s fact. Look at the NHS over- burdened with managers that manage each other.
I agree sone major corporations do operate inefficiently and waste billions which is why companies get taken over by others . Remember you can also be sacked a lot easier as private industry has generally clearer lines of accountability. Also for private companies when they lose money it’s their own and not the tax payers. They don’t get a free top up of cash . They have to borrow and pay it back with their own income not just raise more tax.
In the past a job in the civil service was for life and if you were crap you got moved not sacked.
Thing have improved I can see that ( maybe not the NHS). but forty years ago it was criminal what was allowed.
Btw my criticism of the NHS is how it’s structured and managed by an over bloated management structure not the front line workers.
Definitely too many chiefs and not enough Indians. "
Fairly sure that some people way better qualified than you or I figured out that individually managed NHS Trusts would be easier to control that one giant behemoth being centrally controlled. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"the trouble with conservative economics is that the private sector keeps running out of everyone elses money. "
The problem isn't that we don't have enough to feed the poor, we do. What we lack is enough to satisfy the rich. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ovebjsMan
over a year ago
Bristol |
"the trouble with conservative economics is that the private sector keeps running out of everyone elses money.
The problem isn't that we don't have enough to feed the poor, we do. What we lack is enough to satisfy the rich. "
Exactly this
See just how much food is binned by supermarkets restaurants takeaways ect to keep profits up |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Sorry and back to EDF it’s a French company and so they know that the French government would shut them down if they did not comply "
It's a French company that is largely state owned and controlled. The French Government will ensure they don't go bankrupt. Meanwhile EDF will be assisting them by the big profits they'll make in the UK! |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ovebjsMan
over a year ago
Bristol |
"Sorry and back to EDF it’s a French company and so they know that the French government would shut them down if they did not comply
It's a French company that is largely state owned and controlled. The French Government will ensure they don't go bankrupt. Meanwhile EDF will be assisting them by the big profits they'll make in the UK! "
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago
North West |
"so nationalised industry works ... yet refusenik righties scream blue murder when it's mentioned in this country "
When you become married to an ideology, tunnel vision comes as part of the package. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
» Add a new message to this topic
