FabSwingers.com > Forums > Politics > Energy Costs
Energy Costs
Jump to: Newest in thread
| |||
| |||
"As with all other energy sectors and banking the govt should set up it's own supply company. That would regulate the market without the need for an official regulator that does next to nothing. " So that's a vote for socialism I hope you voted for Corbyn? | |||
"As with all other energy sectors and banking the govt should set up it's own supply company. That would regulate the market without the need for an official regulator that does next to nothing. " Can that actually be done? I thought the price problems were that international prices were high. Regardless as to who owns the company, they still have to buy at the same prices | |||
"As with all other energy sectors and banking the govt should set up it's own supply company. That would regulate the market without the need for an official regulator that does next to nothing. Can that actually be done? I thought the price problems were that international prices were high. Regardless as to who owns the company, they still have to buy at the same prices" Yep, long term contracts to supply gas would mean cheaper deals but the rush to go green means shorter and more expensive deals, I don't think huge price holes are avoidable | |||
| |||
"Not lookin good. Any thoughts on how this will pan out? " Energy poverty will impact more and more people after prices rise. Energy prices in the UK will always reflect world prices no matter how much is produced in the UK or if it's green energy. | |||
"As with all other energy sectors and banking the govt should set up it's own supply company. That would regulate the market without the need for an official regulator that does next to nothing. Can that actually be done? I thought the price problems were that international prices were high. Regardless as to who owns the company, they still have to buy at the same prices Yep, long term contracts to supply gas would mean cheaper deals but the rush to go green means shorter and more expensive deals, I don't think huge price holes are avoidable " Is there examples of this in practice. I would have thought that you may get it a little bit cheaper for a long term deal but only compared to today's sky high prices and basically lock in the high prices for the length of the contract. I hear we pay a high tax or subsidy for the green projects. Maybe in the short-term that can be scrapped or reduced until things are more settled | |||
"As with all other energy sectors and banking the govt should set up it's own supply company. That would regulate the market without the need for an official regulator that does next to nothing. Can that actually be done? I thought the price problems were that international prices were high. Regardless as to who owns the company, they still have to buy at the same prices Yep, long term contracts to supply gas would mean cheaper deals but the rush to go green means shorter and more expensive deals, I don't think huge price holes are avoidable Is there examples of this in practice. I would have thought that you may get it a little bit cheaper for a long term deal but only compared to today's sky high prices and basically lock in the high prices for the length of the contract. I hear we pay a high tax or subsidy for the green projects. Maybe in the short-term that can be scrapped or reduced until things are more settled" Ah sorry I meant suppliers like octopus buying in gas from producers to sell onto us. Us end users can get tariffs again, mine is up in February and will have to se what I can do | |||
"As with all other energy sectors and banking the govt should set up it's own supply company. That would regulate the market without the need for an official regulator that does next to nothing. Can that actually be done? I thought the price problems were that international prices were high. Regardless as to who owns the company, they still have to buy at the same prices Yep, long term contracts to supply gas would mean cheaper deals but the rush to go green means shorter and more expensive deals, I don't think huge price holes are avoidable Is there examples of this in practice. I would have thought that you may get it a little bit cheaper for a long term deal but only compared to today's sky high prices and basically lock in the high prices for the length of the contract. I hear we pay a high tax or subsidy for the green projects. Maybe in the short-term that can be scrapped or reduced until things are more settled" The example that springs to mind is NS&I interest rates last year. They were raised significantly to bolster the chancellor's coffers for payment of COVID costs and people moved their money to such an extent that high street banks were forced to raised their rates. In a similar fashion, the minute one of the main high street petrol suppliers cuts their prices everyone has to follow. The smaller energy suppliers that have gone bust were simply too small to survive but a govt backed supplier would be able to all but set the price to the consumer and ensure that it's at the fairest for all. Not a Corbyn fan and not saying it's perfect but this type of practice would regulate the markets far better than govt price caps | |||
| |||
"It doesn't matter if it's an energy company, the government or Freddie Flintoff selling gas, the price is determined by the global market and primarily in this case by the disagreement between Germany and Russia. We have no say as we're not in the EU " However, the Government has purposely removed the ability for the country to store gas long term. Gas storage for up to 6 months acts as a shock absorber for price fluctuations. Now we have just under three days supply capability. This is basic, basic stuff. | |||
"It doesn't matter if it's an energy company, the government or Freddie Flintoff selling gas, the price is determined by the global market and primarily in this case by the disagreement between Germany and Russia. We have no say as we're not in the EU However, the Government has purposely removed the ability for the country to store gas long term. Gas storage for up to 6 months acts as a shock absorber for price fluctuations. Now we have just under three days supply capability. This is basic, basic stuff." Bugger!! Just been reading up on this...  | |||
"It doesn't matter if it's an energy company, the government or Freddie Flintoff selling gas, the price is determined by the global market and primarily in this case by the disagreement between Germany and Russia. We have no say as we're not in the EU However, the Government has purposely removed the ability for the country to store gas long term. Gas storage for up to 6 months acts as a shock absorber for price fluctuations. Now we have just under three days supply capability. This is basic, basic stuff. Bugger!! Just been reading up on this... "44% of UK gas is "homegrown", 47% from Norway, Russia, Netherlands, Belgium so the very fact that we're not in the EU is a bonus! Also, it's not just about global prices as so many are profiteering. The price of petrol on the forecourt is way above what it should be and no regulator will change that. A national supplier at far reduced, but still profit making, prices, on the other hand... | |||
| |||
"It doesn't matter if it's an energy company, the government or Freddie Flintoff selling gas, the price is determined by the global market and primarily in this case by the disagreement between Germany and Russia. We have no say as we're not in the EU However, the Government has purposely removed the ability for the country to store gas long term. Gas storage for up to 6 months acts as a shock absorber for price fluctuations. Now we have just under three days supply capability. This is basic, basic stuff. Bugger!! Just been reading up on this...
44% of UK gas is "homegrown", 47% from Norway, Russia, Netherlands, Belgium so the very fact that we're not in the EU is a bonus!
Also, it's not just about global prices as so many are profiteering. The price of petrol on the forecourt is way above what it should be and no regulator will change that. A national supplier at far reduced, but still profit making, prices, on the other hand..."According to the stories when this first started the energy companies are selling to us at a lower price than they are buying it at due to the price cap. This I believe is why several have gone bust. There simply is no profit at present. Until either the wholesale price comes down or the cap goes up, every customer is a loss to their supplier | |||
 | |||
"There is no need to worry about a rise in gas/electric prices , , 2 weeks before the referendum Johnson promised cheaper fuel for everyone if we leave the E,U" and the immediate removal VAT from fuel bills don't forget  | |||
"bills will double in the next year. then when hinkley comes on stream, the inflation linked deal struck by the torys will cause the cost of fuel to spiral completely out of control even further. " | |||
| |||
"There is no need to worry about a rise in gas/electric prices , , 2 weeks before the referendum Johnson promised cheaper fuel for everyone if we leave the E,U" (as a kid) in the 60s, think it was Labour, Harold Wilson was prime minister, saying they were converting all homes to run on the newly discovered North Sea gas. All our gas would now remain cheaper for ever and we will have enough gas to last a lifetime..... what happened???? Did Boris tell Wilson to say that ?? | |||
"There is no need to worry about a rise in gas/electric prices , , 2 weeks before the referendum Johnson promised cheaper fuel for everyone if we leave the E,U (as a kid) in the 60s, think it was Labour, Harold Wilson was prime minister, saying they were converting all homes to run on the newly discovered North Sea gas. All our gas would now remain cheaper for ever and we will have enough gas to last a lifetime..... what happened???? Did Boris tell Wilson to say that ?? " It did - 60 years is a lifetime (ish) | |||
| |||
"It all started with nord stream 2 putin will keep the price high until the eu give in on their monopoly policy, it was always going to happen he has fucked the ukraine and the eu with the help of Germany a blind man could see that one coming. " And we're not in the EU  | |||
" Ah sorry I meant suppliers like octopus buying in gas from producers to sell onto us. Us end users can get tariffs again, mine is up in February and will have to se what I can do " Companies like octopus basically undercut the bigger companies when the prices were really low, but didn’t hedge enough so when the prices were thru the roof all those fixed term contracts became losses as they were having to buy gas and oil at a much higher price than they were selling it onto customers Customers did nowt wrong, the companies got greedy and now those customers who are partly protected from full increase atm won’t be when their fix terms are up | |||
| |||
"The point being that a govt run supplier isn't profit making" is this where Robin Hood Energy went wrong?? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robin_Hood_Energy | |||
"The point being that a govt run supplier isn't profit making" I understand it could be a non profit set up but as things stand like any other supplier it will be a loss making set up due to high wholesale prices and the cap. So customers will still pay the same amount and tax payers will be supporting a loss making enterprise. Until either the wholesale prices falls or the cap is lifted the suppliers will run at a loss regardless of if they are private or state owned | |||
| |||
"The point being that a govt run supplier isn't profit making" Not for profit can be a bit misleading  | |||
"The point being that a govt run supplier isn't profit making I understand it could be a non profit set up but as things stand like any other supplier it will be a loss making set up due to high wholesale prices and the cap. So customers will still pay the same amount and tax payers will be supporting a loss making enterprise. Until either the wholesale prices falls or the cap is lifted the suppliers will run at a loss regardless of if they are private or state owned" Wow! At last someone who understands how prices work. Everytime the price of something goes up, people think the solution is for government to own it, as though that is magically free. In spite of examples of repeated failures of such ideas, people never learn from these mistakes. | |||
| |||
"The point being that a govt run supplier isn't profit making I understand it could be a non profit set up but as things stand like any other supplier it will be a loss making set up due to high wholesale prices and the cap. So customers will still pay the same amount and tax payers will be supporting a loss making enterprise. Until either the wholesale prices falls or the cap is lifted the suppliers will run at a loss regardless of if they are private or state owned Wow! At last someone who understands how prices work. Everytime the price of something goes up, people think the solution is for government to own it, as though that is magically free. In spite of examples of repeated failures of such ideas, people never learn from these mistakes." The point isn't to make anything govt owned but to provide a govt owned option to the public that, by being non profit making, will automatically be cheaper than the profit chasing, shareholder led companies, thus keeping the price to the consumer as low as possible. I cannot make it any simpler | |||
"The point being that a govt run supplier isn't profit making I understand it could be a non profit set up but as things stand like any other supplier it will be a loss making set up due to high wholesale prices and the cap. So customers will still pay the same amount and tax payers will be supporting a loss making enterprise. Until either the wholesale prices falls or the cap is lifted the suppliers will run at a loss regardless of if they are private or state owned Wow! At last someone who understands how prices work. Everytime the price of something goes up, people think the solution is for government to own it, as though that is magically free. In spite of examples of repeated failures of such ideas, people never learn from these mistakes. The point isn't to make anything govt owned but to provide a govt owned option to the public that, by being non profit making, will automatically be cheaper than the profit chasing, shareholder led companies, thus keeping the price to the consumer as low as possible. I cannot make it any simpler" That is what the french state owned electricite de france does in the uk they seem to have a big market share in the uk which reduces the energy costs for the french edf customer and it works well for them. | |||
"The point being that a govt run supplier isn't profit making I understand it could be a non profit set up but as things stand like any other supplier it will be a loss making set up due to high wholesale prices and the cap. So customers will still pay the same amount and tax payers will be supporting a loss making enterprise. Until either the wholesale prices falls or the cap is lifted the suppliers will run at a loss regardless of if they are private or state owned Wow! At last someone who understands how prices work. Everytime the price of something goes up, people think the solution is for government to own it, as though that is magically free. In spite of examples of repeated failures of such ideas, people never learn from these mistakes. The point isn't to make anything govt owned but to provide a govt owned option to the public that, by being non profit making, will automatically be cheaper than the profit chasing, shareholder led companies, thus keeping the price to the consumer as low as possible. I cannot make it any simpler" Economics is not as simple as that. Prices raising on goods usually means one of the required input suffering from low supply and high demand. This year, there is a squeeze on gas supply all around Europe. If you make the government entity non-profit by doing whatever magic you plan to do to match the price to precisely match the cost, the rest of the companies will just shut down and invest their money elsewhere to get profit. | |||
"The point being that a govt run supplier isn't profit making I understand it could be a non profit set up but as things stand like any other supplier it will be a loss making set up due to high wholesale prices and the cap. So customers will still pay the same amount and tax payers will be supporting a loss making enterprise. Until either the wholesale prices falls or the cap is lifted the suppliers will run at a loss regardless of if they are private or state owned Wow! At last someone who understands how prices work. Everytime the price of something goes up, people think the solution is for government to own it, as though that is magically free. In spite of examples of repeated failures of such ideas, people never learn from these mistakes. The point isn't to make anything govt owned but to provide a govt owned option to the public that, by being non profit making, will automatically be cheaper than the profit chasing, shareholder led companies, thus keeping the price to the consumer as low as possible. I cannot make it any simpler That is what the french state owned electricite de france does in the uk they seem to have a big market share in the uk which reduces the energy costs for the french edf customer and it works well for them. " Can you compare French and UK power cost and show how much cheaper the price is usually in France? | |||
| |||
| |||
| |||
| |||
| |||
"Given that nuclear fission is out of favour. I don’t see how we can solve our energy problem until we get nuclear fusion. The world should get together and write a blank check to get fusion working and rolled out." Nuclear fission is out of favour only in few countries who don't seem to think rationally. It is much safer now. | |||
"The point being that a govt run supplier isn't profit making I understand it could be a non profit set up but as things stand like any other supplier it will be a loss making set up due to high wholesale prices and the cap. So customers will still pay the same amount and tax payers will be supporting a loss making enterprise. Until either the wholesale prices falls or the cap is lifted the suppliers will run at a loss regardless of if they are private or state owned Wow! At last someone who understands how prices work. Everytime the price of something goes up, people think the solution is for government to own it, as though that is magically free. In spite of examples of repeated failures of such ideas, people never learn from these mistakes. The point isn't to make anything govt owned but to provide a govt owned option to the public that, by being non profit making, will automatically be cheaper than the profit chasing, shareholder led companies, thus keeping the price to the consumer as low as possible. I cannot make it any simpler" All that would do is replace profit with bureaucracy and waste. Probably end up more expensive in the long run. Government control and efficiency are polar opposites. | |||
| |||
| |||
| |||
| |||
"i disagree with your post as it appears to be idealogical smokescreen nonsense." And your answer would be? Or is it the Greta syndrome, object to everything but put nothing on the table? | |||
| |||
"the answer would be drop the proven disaster of conservative ideological market models and make a realistic plan that frees people from the constraints of it's failures, thus enabling them to go about the business of working, making money and improving their lives. "I rest my case. | |||
"I rest my case." just as well as you appear to have nothing | |||
"I rest my case. just as well as you appear to have nothing "And you have come up with what exactly? A psychobabble rant with not one good or even bad solution to anything. You may not like my idea but at least I've got one. Hope you have memorised it because when the lights go out copy and paste won't be readily available. | |||
"And you have come up with what exactly? A psychobabble rant with not one good or even bad solution to anything. " just a reminder that your bitching about my post there and attacking me with personal abuse is against forum rules chap | |||
"And you have come up with what exactly? A psychobabble rant with not one good or even bad solution to anything. just a reminder that your bitching about my post there and attacking me with personal abuse is against forum rules chap "That is a very wild accusation. There is absolutely NO personal abuse in any of my posts. On here I may have a go at your opinion but to accuse me of personal abuse is almost personal abuse in itself. If you cannot win the argument then do the decent thing and just back away. Feel free to report any of my posts. | |||
"the answer would be drop the proven disaster of conservative ideological market models and make a realistic plan that frees people from the constraints of it's failures, thus enabling them to go about the business of working, making money and improving their lives. "What an amazing solution to the worldwide issue of increasing energy costs. Not quite sure what the Spanish, French and German populations for instance are going to do about there "proven disaster of conservative ideological market models" though | |||
"We can blather on and on about the government should do this that and the other from now until doomsday (which may be sooner than you think) However it matters very little who controls it locally. The price will be determined by world energy prices (which are inescapable) and tax. Britain may not buy much (if any) gas from Russia but if Putin decides to turn off the tap to Europe then the subsequent world price hike will hit Britain just as hard as anyone else. On a smaller scale it has already happened with just a small reduction in supply causing near chaos on world markets. Don't think Britain is alone, gas prices in Germany are rocketing and electricity in Spain has risen by around 50% in the last year or two. What a government can control is tax. Going green is all very virtuous but bottom line it's also bloody expensive. Green taxes alone are pushing up household bills by around £150 a year, but for what? To subsidise inefficient windmills and even less efficient solar power. Of course it is technology that needs to be developed and can be a useful addition to the national grid. But in a country of nigh on 70 million people you can't bet the farm on the wind blowing or the sun shining. Nuclear power is an option but also expensive and time consuming. From planning to completion Hinkley has taken 10 years to build and as the older stations are decommissioned it will add very little (if anything) to the total generating capacity. Just to stand still it is estimated that Britain needs another half dozen or so Hinkley's over the next 15/20 years. And even that doesn't allow for the extra demand that will follow the dash to electric cars over the next few years. Meanwhile when anyone comes up with a workable solution to keep the lights on. It's cue Swampy and Co. Shale gas (Fracking) may not be ideal but it's what Britain has got in abundance and gas fueled power stations can be up and running in a very short time when compared to nuclear. Coal, yes coal, how attitudes have changed since the 80's (Coal not dole LOL) It's not the cleanest fuel but it's cheap and again abundant in Britain. Modern coal fired power stations are much cleaner than the old ones and taking everything into account no worse than shipping wood pellets halfway around the world. But when a new coal mine was proposed in Cumbria recently the Greens were up in arms. When the Chinese are knocking up coal fired power stations at breakneck speed I really don't think an extra one or two on a small island in the north Atlantic will make much difference to your average polar bear. No matter what Greta might say. So Britain make your choice. Cold in the dark and virtuous or maybe, if someone got their finger out instead of grandstanding, you could actually keep warm with the lights on. " Nice post! I would personally say that nuclear power is the only way out if this. As you said, coal power could be a temporary solution but it's possibly a no-go in the current climate (pun unintended). The problem with nuclear power is the time to deploy as you mentioned. Consumers may wait ten years but not politicians as it goes well past the election cycles and they don't have incentives to do that. But it has to be done, if the country wants to be self sufficient over the longer run. | |||
| |||
"We can blather on and on about the government should do this that and the other from now until doomsday (which may be sooner than you think) However it matters very little who controls it locally. The price will be determined by world energy prices (which are inescapable) and tax. Britain may not buy much (if any) gas from Russia but if Putin decides to turn off the tap to Europe then the subsequent world price hike will hit Britain just as hard as anyone else. On a smaller scale it has already happened with just a small reduction in supply causing near chaos on world markets. Don't think Britain is alone, gas prices in Germany are rocketing and electricity in Spain has risen by around 50% in the last year or two. What a government can control is tax. Going green is all very virtuous but bottom line it's also bloody expensive. Green taxes alone are pushing up household bills by around £150 a year, but for what? To subsidise inefficient windmills and even less efficient solar power. Of course it is technology that needs to be developed and can be a useful addition to the national grid. But in a country of nigh on 70 million people you can't bet the farm on the wind blowing or the sun shining. Nuclear power is an option but also expensive and time consuming. From planning to completion Hinkley has taken 10 years to build and as the older stations are decommissioned it will add very little (if anything) to the total generating capacity. Just to stand still it is estimated that Britain needs another half dozen or so Hinkley's over the next 15/20 years. And even that doesn't allow for the extra demand that will follow the dash to electric cars over the next few years. Meanwhile when anyone comes up with a workable solution to keep the lights on. It's cue Swampy and Co. Shale gas (Fracking) may not be ideal but it's what Britain has got in abundance and gas fueled power stations can be up and running in a very short time when compared to nuclear. Coal, yes coal, how attitudes have changed since the 80's (Coal not dole LOL) It's not the cleanest fuel but it's cheap and again abundant in Britain. Modern coal fired power stations are much cleaner than the old ones and taking everything into account no worse than shipping wood pellets halfway around the world. But when a new coal mine was proposed in Cumbria recently the Greens were up in arms. When the Chinese are knocking up coal fired power stations at breakneck speed I really don't think an extra one or two on a small island in the north Atlantic will make much difference to your average polar bear. No matter what Greta might say. So Britain make your choice. Cold in the dark and virtuous or maybe, if someone got their finger out instead of grandstanding, you could actually keep warm with the lights on. Nice post! I would personally say that nuclear power is the only way out if this. As you said, coal power could be a temporary solution but it's possibly a no-go in the current climate (pun unintended). The problem with nuclear power is the time to deploy as you mentioned. Consumers may wait ten years but not politicians as it goes well past the election cycles and they don't have incentives to do that. But it has to be done, if the country wants to be self sufficient over the longer run." Yes. I also think that nuclear is the way forward. However as soon as anyone as much as mentions the word "nuclear" it's like an atom bomb has gone off (pun intended ) Objections are everywhere. Maybe someone should think of a new name for it.
To be fair nuclear does have its drawbacks, decommissioning costs, waste handling Etc. But if we are going to cut carbon then at the moment it is the only option. Current solar technology and wind farms just cannot produce enough, and is not reliable enough, to power a country the size of Britain.
In the distant future maybe someone will come up with a way to properly harness that big golden nuclear power station in the sky, but it's a long way off.
Until then the lights have to stay on, heating has to be maintained, and Boris's electric car revolution has got to be powered. And at a price that people can afford. | |||
" if the country wants to be self sufficient over the longer run." having foreign state owned companies providing energy needs is not self-suficiency in anyway shape or form. | |||
"the cost of foreign controled nuclear in uk has spiraled out of control since it's inception and coupled with mamoth increases in future bills by forcing consumers to pay for it, then the flogging of the same dead horse of free market energy provision will make the already catastrophic tory model of energy provision an unmitigated disaster for future generations to come. "And just what has the price rises in Spain and Germany have to do with the "Tory model" Did Boris tell Putin to slow down the gas taps? BTW. It was the Labour governments of the early 2000's that, for ideological reasons, ran away from planning nuclear power stations. The Tories have been playing catch up ever since. To be fair the Tories haven't been as sharp as they should have been but the problem goes much further back. | |||
| |||
" if the country wants to be self sufficient over the longer run. having foreign state owned companies providing energy needs is not self-suficiency in anyway shape or form. "Fully agree. However the country can't have it both ways. If Britain doesn't want to (or can't afford to) build its own, then it has to come from somewhere. The planning battle alone for Hinkley took around 5 years, then it's going to take another 5 or 6 to build. Nuclear power stations can't be magicked out of thin air. | |||
"monthly bills in spain fell by 22% between sept-dec due to swift government intervention to divert excessive profits from business in order to protect consumers. meanwhile tory backbenchers have imasculated the tory leadership and they continue to sit on their corrupt hands. a disaterous case of the tory tail wagging the the tory dog. "Then why is the Spanish press kicking off good style asking why Spanish bills are 40 odd percent up while Portugal is only around 5%? BTW I pay an electric bill in Spain. No idea where you got that one from but it's nonsense. | |||
| |||
"monthly bills in spain fell by 22% between sept-dec due to swift government intervention to divert excessive profits from business in order to protect consumers.)" this is irrefutable fact | |||
"We can blather on and on about the government should do this that and the other from now until doomsday (which may be sooner than you think) However it matters very little who controls it locally. The price will be determined by world energy prices (which are inescapable) and tax. Britain may not buy much (if any) gas from Russia but if Putin decides to turn off the tap to Europe then the subsequent world price hike will hit Britain just as hard as anyone else. On a smaller scale it has already happened with just a small reduction in supply causing near chaos on world markets. Don't think Britain is alone, gas prices in Germany are rocketing and electricity in Spain has risen by around 50% in the last year or two. What a government can control is tax. Going green is all very virtuous but bottom line it's also bloody expensive. Green taxes alone are pushing up household bills by around £150 a year, but for what? To subsidise inefficient windmills and even less efficient solar power. Of course it is technology that needs to be developed and can be a useful addition to the national grid. But in a country of nigh on 70 million people you can't bet the farm on the wind blowing or the sun shining. Nuclear power is an option but also expensive and time consuming. From planning to completion Hinkley has taken 10 years to build and as the older stations are decommissioned it will add very little (if anything) to the total generating capacity. Just to stand still it is estimated that Britain needs another half dozen or so Hinkley's over the next 15/20 years. And even that doesn't allow for the extra demand that will follow the dash to electric cars over the next few years. Meanwhile when anyone comes up with a workable solution to keep the lights on. It's cue Swampy and Co. Shale gas (Fracking) may not be ideal but it's what Britain has got in abundance and gas fueled power stations can be up and running in a very short time when compared to nuclear. Coal, yes coal, how attitudes have changed since the 80's (Coal not dole LOL) It's not the cleanest fuel but it's cheap and again abundant in Britain. Modern coal fired power stations are much cleaner than the old ones and taking everything into account no worse than shipping wood pellets halfway around the world. But when a new coal mine was proposed in Cumbria recently the Greens were up in arms. When the Chinese are knocking up coal fired power stations at breakneck speed I really don't think an extra one or two on a small island in the north Atlantic will make much difference to your average polar bear. No matter what Greta might say. So Britain make your choice. Cold in the dark and virtuous or maybe, if someone got their finger out instead of grandstanding, you could actually keep warm with the lights on. Nice post! I would personally say that nuclear power is the only way out if this. As you said, coal power could be a temporary solution but it's possibly a no-go in the current climate (pun unintended). The problem with nuclear power is the time to deploy as you mentioned. Consumers may wait ten years but not politicians as it goes well past the election cycles and they don't have incentives to do that. But it has to be done, if the country wants to be self sufficient over the longer run. Yes. I also think that nuclear is the way forward. However as soon as anyone as much as mentions the word "nuclear" it's like an atom bomb has gone off (pun intended ) Objections are everywhere. Maybe someone should think of a new name for it.
To be fair nuclear does have its drawbacks, decommissioning costs, waste handling Etc. But if we are going to cut carbon then at the moment it is the only option. Current solar technology and wind farms just cannot produce enough, and is not reliable enough, to power a country the size of Britain.
In the distant future maybe someone will come up with a way to properly harness that big golden nuclear power station in the sky, but it's a long way off.
Until then the lights have to stay on, heating has to be maintained, and Boris's electric car revolution has got to be powered. And at a price that people can afford."Agree that nuclear power has its drawbacks. But humans have always made progress in iterations. Still people for some reason go looking for a silver bullet to solve all their problems. Just like efficiency of fossil fuel based energy production increased gradually over decades, nuclear stations will find a way to better handle wastage and resolve other issues. But the biggest challenge will be to convince people as you mentioned. There was a nuclear plant built in my state in India. Huge protests broke out with people trying to stop it. Kudos to the government for sticking to plans in spite of opposition. Now power supply problems have reduced drastically and those protestors have gone silent, reaping the benefits of the reactor. | |||
"monthly bills in spain fell by 22% between sept-dec due to swift government intervention to divert excessive profits from business in order to protect consumers.) this is irrefutable fact "Doesn't look like it https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-59087189 | |||
"monthly bills in spain fell by 22% between sept-dec due to swift government intervention to divert excessive profits from business in order to protect consumers.) this is irrefutable fact "Proven ... https://www.reuters.com/markets/commodities/spain-extend-energy-bill-tax-cuts-until-may-2022-2021-12-15/
meanwhile prices will rise by 50% due to lack of government intervention ... https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-59760331 | |||
"monthly bills in spain fell by 22% between sept-dec due to swift government intervention to divert excessive profits from business in order to protect consumers.) this is irrefutable fact "No it is not. I have 2 bills in my hand. Our most recent and from the same period a year ago. 126€ and 93€ respectively on almost identical usage. That is per month not quarter. | |||
"monthly bills in spain fell by 22% between sept-dec due to swift government intervention to divert excessive profits from business in order to protect consumers.) this is irrefutable fact
Proven ... https://www.reuters.com/markets/commodities/spain-extend-energy-bill-tax-cuts-until-may-2022-2021-12-15/
meanwhile prices will rise by 50% due to lack of government intervention ... https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-59760331 "Did you read the articles you shared? You said that the government intervened to divert excessive profits from businesses. But the article you shared claims that the government just reduced sales tax on electricity bills. | |||
| |||
| |||
"monthly bills in spain fell by 22% between sept-dec due to swift government intervention to divert excessive profits from business in order to protect consumers.) this is irrefutable fact
Proven ... https://www.reuters.com/markets/commodities/spain-extend-energy-bill-tax-cuts-until-may-2022-2021-12-15/
meanwhile prices will rise by 50% due to lack of government intervention ... https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-59760331 "I'd drop the thumbs if I were you. You obviously either didn't read the article or failed to understand it. Spain has temporarily cut the VAT on electricity from 21% to 10% so nothing like the 22% reduction in bills you originally quoted. And if you read the reason. It is because of the rocketing energy prices in the EU. So nothing more than a small tax cut to cushion the already severe hit. | |||
"i purchase energy for my murcian and valencian farms from 100% renewable local sources. they have decreased slightly due to government intervention. as uii said ... proven beyond doubt "But you didn't give any proof yet. All you did was share some news that the government reduced sales tax. What happened to that thing you said about the Spanish government valiantly fighting corporates by forcing them to reduce profits? | |||
" the article you shared claims that the government just reduced sales tax on electricity bills. " yet the now utterly paralysed tory government lead by backbencher steve baker continue to quaff expensive drinks and gorge on luxury foods while the pleb's struggle to pay their day to day bills continues to worsen. | |||
"i purchase energy for my murcian and valencian farms from 100% renewable local sources. they have decreased slightly due to government intervention. as uii said ... proven beyond doubt "Yeah right!  | |||
" the article you shared claims that the government just reduced sales tax on electricity bills. yet the now utterly paralysed tory government lead by backbencher steve baker continue to quaff expensive drinks and gorge on luxury foods while the pleb's struggle to pay their day to day bills continues to worsen. "You said the Spanish government cut off the profits of energy companies. Was that a lie? | |||
" the article you shared claims that the government just reduced sales tax on electricity bills. yet the now utterly paralysed tory government lead by backbencher steve baker continue to quaff expensive drinks and gorge on luxury foods while the pleb's struggle to pay their day to day bills continues to worsen.
You said the Spanish government cut off the profits of energy companies. Was that a lie?"I think it's just an anti Tory rant producing facts and figures out of thin air. Hey ho. Whatever rocks his socks. | |||
| |||
"meanwhile in the UK, prices are set to rise by in excess of £900 over the comming year, with further increases due when the inflation linked price which the government agreed with edf for hinkley nuclear comes on stream. nuclear energy at 4 times the current cost. "OK. The suspense is killing me. So let's forget the Tories for a moment Let's forget the subsidies that the Spanish are not giving. Let's even forget the nasty French making a profit by selling Britain electricity. So how would you generate enough to make the UK self sufficient at a reasonable cost? How would you actually gener | |||
" the article you shared claims that the government just reduced sales tax on electricity bills. yet the now utterly paralysed tory government lead by backbencher steve baker continue to quaff expensive drinks and gorge on luxury foods while the pleb's struggle to pay their day to day bills continues to worsen.
You said the Spanish government cut off the profits of energy companies. Was that a lie?
I think it's just an anti Tory rant producing facts and figures out of thin air.
Hey ho. Whatever rocks his socks.". ,,, ,,, this isn't anti tory at all from me I am very much pro tory on this matter and looking forward to the tory promised brexit bonus of cheaper energy bills , , | |||
"monthly bills in spain fell by 22% between sept-dec due to swift government intervention to divert excessive profits from business in order to protect consumers. meanwhile tory backbenchers have imasculated the tory leadership and they continue to sit on their corrupt hands. a disaterous case of the tory tail wagging the the tory dog. "What a load of tosh, they did not fall that much at all and that's certainly not the reason why they did drop slightly either, diverting excess profits from business my arse | |||
" ,,, this isn't anti tory at all from me I am very much pro tory on this matter and looking forward to the tory promised brexit bonus of cheaper energy bills , , " and house market price collapse benefitting the first time buyer don't forget | |||
" the article you shared claims that the government just reduced sales tax on electricity bills. yet the now utterly paralysed tory government lead by backbencher steve baker continue to quaff expensive drinks and gorge on luxury foods while the pleb's struggle to pay their day to day bills continues to worsen.
You said the Spanish government cut off the profits of energy companies. Was that a lie?
I think it's just an anti Tory rant producing facts and figures out of thin air.
Hey ho. Whatever rocks his socks.. ,,, ,,, this isn't anti tory at all from me I am very much pro tory on this matter and looking forward to the tory promised brexit bonus of cheaper energy bills , , "It wasn't aimed at you. In reality the Tories are not doing too bad when compared to the rest of Europe. However one thing did go badly wrong since the Brexit referendum. Boris married Carrie. | |||
" ,,, this isn't anti tory at all from me I am very much pro tory on this matter and looking forward to the tory promised brexit bonus of cheaper energy bills , , and house market price collapse benefitting the first time buyer don't forget "Phew! Thank god we dodged that bullet. It could have had a knock on effect into Spanish farms. | |||
" the article you shared claims that the government just reduced sales tax on electricity bills. yet the now utterly paralysed tory government lead by backbencher steve baker continue to quaff expensive drinks and gorge on luxury foods while the pleb's struggle to pay their day to day bills continues to worsen.
You said the Spanish government cut off the profits of energy companies. Was that a lie?
I think it's just an anti Tory rant producing facts and figures out of thin air.
Hey ho. Whatever rocks his socks.. ,,, ,,, this isn't anti tory at all from me I am very much pro tory on this matter and looking forward to the tory promised brexit bonus of cheaper energy bills , ,
It wasn't aimed at you.
In reality the Tories are not doing too bad when compared to the rest of Europe.
However one thing did go badly wrong since the Brexit referendum.
Boris married Carrie.". ,,, ,,, ,, I take your point but the rest of Europe or the rest of the world for that matter is irrelevant,we were quite clearly promised cheaper fuel prices if we left the EU , Since then we have left with what has been referred to as a brilliant deal,so cheaper prices are on the way | |||
"we were quite clearly promised cheaper fuel prices if we left the EU , Since then we have left with what has been referred to as a brilliant deal,so cheaper prices are on the way " will they arrive before or after our '1st in the queue for an american trade deal' on steel exports? | |||
" the article you shared claims that the government just reduced sales tax on electricity bills. yet the now utterly paralysed tory government lead by backbencher steve baker continue to quaff expensive drinks and gorge on luxury foods while the pleb's struggle to pay their day to day bills continues to worsen.
You said the Spanish government cut off the profits of energy companies. Was that a lie?
I think it's just an anti Tory rant producing facts and figures out of thin air.
Hey ho. Whatever rocks his socks.. ,,, ,,, this isn't anti tory at all from me I am very much pro tory on this matter and looking forward to the tory promised brexit bonus of cheaper energy bills , ,
It wasn't aimed at you.
In reality the Tories are not doing too bad when compared to the rest of Europe.
However one thing did go badly wrong since the Brexit referendum.
Boris married Carrie.. ,,, ,,, ,, I take your point but the rest of Europe or the rest of the world for that matter is irrelevant,we were quite clearly promised cheaper fuel prices if we left the EU , Since then we have left with what has been referred to as a brilliant deal,so cheaper prices are on the way "OK I get where you are coming from,and yes it is (to say the least) a disappointment. But to be fair way back in 2016 no-one could have foreseen where the energy markets were going. Perhaps they should have. But come on, we are talking politicians here. Turn them around 3 times and they wouldn't find their way home. And that goes for all colours and persuasions. | |||
"we were quite clearly promised cheaper fuel prices if we left the EU , Since then we have left with what has been referred to as a brilliant deal,so cheaper prices are on the way will they arrive before or after our '1st in the queue for an american trade deal' on steel exports? "Come on. We were top of the list for Chinese virus exports. | |||
| |||
| |||
"meanwhile, the russian gas barons continue to donate enormous sums of money to the tory party. "And Chelsea FC. | |||
| |||
| |||
"If Europe has a mild winter gas prices will come tumbling down." If the European utilities priorities spot deals over long term contracts the price will stay the same, we are ok though american LNG tankers heading for the asian markets are been diverted to the more lucrative european market. | |||
"If Europe has a mild winter gas prices will come tumbling down. If the European utilities priorities spot deals over long term contracts the price will stay the same, we are ok though american LNG tankers heading for the asian markets are been diverted to the more lucrative european market." Is this move to wrong foot the Russians? | |||
"If Europe has a mild winter gas prices will come tumbling down. If the European utilities priorities spot deals over long term contracts the price will stay the same, we are ok though american LNG tankers heading for the asian markets are been diverted to the more lucrative european market. Is this move to wrong foot the Russians? " Who knows, I can hear someone cutting a branch time will tell who was sitting on it. | |||
"As with all other energy sectors and banking the govt should set up it's own supply company. That would regulate the market without the need for an official regulator that does next to nothing. " The government already regulate the energy organisations | |||
| |||
"There's nothing anyone can do but search for the best deals when tariff runs out. "I wish I had got solar panels at the height of fit payments as a friend of mine gets 54p a kWh plus 6.5p for any exported to grid and free electricity. | |||
"There's nothing anyone can do but search for the best deals when tariff runs out.
I wish I had got solar panels at the height of fit payments as a friend of mine gets 54p a kWh plus 6.5p for any exported to grid and free electricity."Hydrogen CHP power units are the way to go you get so many pence per kw exported back to the grid with these units. | |||
"As with all other energy sectors and banking the govt should set up it's own supply company. That would regulate the market without the need for an official regulator that does next to nothing. So that's a vote for socialism I hope you voted for Corbyn?" Controls have been used by many shades of government here and overseas, including the USA. There has been a general reversal of protection, away from the public towards larger corporates. 'Socialism' it isn't. Similarly, there are many aspects of society where appropriate protections exist and benefit everyone, from producers to the public, including safety standards. Few could try to argue coherently in favour of anything goes. | |||
"There's nothing anyone can do but search for the best deals when tariff runs out.
I wish I had got solar panels at the height of fit payments as a friend of mine gets 54p a kWh plus 6.5p for any exported to grid and free electricity."And people wonder why energy prices are high, stupidly of government and greed | |||
"national grid plc net income 2020 = £1265 billion .... that's an awful lot of cash being sucked out of the consumers pocket by a majority of foreign shareholders. " Think you missed a decimal Point | |||
| |||
"As with all other energy sectors and banking the govt should set up it's own supply company. That would regulate the market without the need for an official regulator that does next to nothing. So that's a vote for socialism I hope you voted for Corbyn?" Not a vote for socialism but having our energy in the hands of Dividend Demanding share holders causes a number of problems where nationalised companies wouldn't cause a problem. Climate Change and the take up of our own generation is not wanted by energy companie stakeholders and therefore a big block to progress. They can only survive if there are profits and shareholders want their cut. I don't know the answers but: 5 years ago, I purchased my own 5kw Solar PV and until October last year my gas and electricity was £40 per month, just gone up 50%, most of this is increased standing charges. The total cost was £5000 and paid back within 5 years on energy 'credits' accrued by not drawing down over payments. It was left to build up, drawn down and paid back to the money used to cover it. The solution that's working great for me and highly recommend is to generate your own power, store some in batteries for overnight, dump the rest into hot water tanks and air conditioners used as heaters or cooling. This reduced energy import by 80%. Wheen first installed, electricity was 9p per kilowatt and expected 10 yr payback. Due to savings on more expensive energy, payback has halved in time as fixed in October at 19p per kw for 3 years. From mid spring, summer, and mid autumn I buy in around 1.5kw Per day to cover the 3kw cooker and hot water is free. On sunny days in winter, portable heaters and two air conditioners pre-heat the house to reduce boiler demand which CH runs for 1.5 hours per evening. The other bonus is on hot sticky sunny days, the house is 16 degrees using 'free' air conditioning. Other countries where energy is government run, they are way further forward on green energy. In Australia and California 90% of any exported energy can be later brought back in at no cost. Shareholders will not tolerate that hence UK SEG is 3p/kw. This country needs net metering to encourage more to install PV. Right now, energy companies would be better off if customers were generating their own power as they are loosing money on every kw they supply. Happy to share ideas and lessons learnt with anyone if you PM me. | |||
| |||
"In the old days as us older folks remember . Every town had a gass tower.gas was bought in summer when cheep and stored for use in winter. Sadly fat cat energy firms have done away with gas towers and only buy when neaded so they now pay more in winter or should i say we pay more" Gasometers were built to store town gas. This was gas produced by burning coal. Once natural gas came on stream, they were not needed. A network of pipelines brings in the gas from the North Sea facilities. | |||
| |||
"As with all other energy sectors and banking the govt should set up it's own supply company. That would regulate the market without the need for an official regulator that does next to nothing. " And the government supply company would get the gas from where? Oh yes....world wholesale markets where prices have risen 80% in the last 12 months. Great idea on paper but totally pointless. | |||
"In the old days as us older folks remember . Every town had a gass tower.gas was bought in summer when cheep and stored for use in winter. Sadly fat cat energy firms have done away with gas towers and only buy when neaded so they now pay more in winter or should i say we pay more Gasometers were built to store town gas. This was gas produced by burning coal. Once natural gas came on stream, they were not needed. A network of pipelines brings in the gas from the North Sea facilities. " Exactly this | |||
"As with all other energy sectors and banking the govt should set up it's own supply company. That would regulate the market without the need for an official regulator that does next to nothing. And the government supply company would get the gas from where? Oh yes....world wholesale markets where prices have risen 80% in the last 12 months. Great idea on paper but totally pointless." Not quite the point. Yes, gas from international markets but without need for profit to line the pockets of overpaid Execs and shareholders as private companies NEED to profit. I've never seen a not for profit energy company although councils tried setting something up. However, if demand for gas demand was reduced (by moving more to electrification of heating) and significant increase in renewables and storage then reliance on gas overall would fall and not be exposed to such high pricing. The reason gas prices are currently so high is that across Europe and here, much of it is being burnt to generate electric to replace lost coal generation - look at current generation mix graphs, gas is significant. My demand on gas and electricity is almost zero for 8 months of the year. Winter, I use gas but on sunny days, use air conditioners set to heat and portable heaters run from the PV panels to reduce gas demand. Gas boiler is only used on very cold days or days of little sun. There needs to be more support (not grants) for others to install Solar and pay it back against savings on bills the same way I paid back mine. Feed in Tariffs and SEG just monetised it and Martin Lewis spewing out "solar isn't worth it" due to low export payments. When I installed mine, it was a gimmick and others laughed but when I tell then the house costs £40 a month in gas and electricity, they soon shut up. It has just gone up to £60 but this year's changes will reduce it to less than £30. This year's plans is to increase battery capacity to cover the cooker and air conditioners running at night. Ultimately on low solar days charging batteries at 5p/kw night car charger rate and use the day after for power, hot water and heating. Gas boiler converted to propane bottles and disconnect from Grid as it won't be use much to get rid of standing charge. If net metering was introduced, many could export their daytime production to Grid while at work against 90% credit of importing it back at night. This would better balance the Grid, lower Gas generation demand during the day and consume excess wind, hydro and nuclear at night. It's working in other countries but as energy suppliers here need to make significant profits, they will fight it to the death. Hence an entity where vast profit is not the goal - state owned 'at cost' providers encouraging those willing to generate their own. It works for me and can work for many others if planned and installed correctly. I get low bills and a lot less guilt on CO2 emission. | |||
| |||
"Not lookin good. Any thoughts on how this will pan out? " With the current popularity for working from home, I can see a place for an invention whereby a set of bicycle pedals are attached to office chairs, the pedals turning a small electricity generator. Peleton exercise whilst on a Zoom meeting. And guess where the methane gas is gonna come from? What's not to like? | |||
"As with all other energy sectors and banking the govt should set up it's own supply company. That would regulate the market without the need for an official regulator that does next to nothing. And the government supply company would get the gas from where? Oh yes....world wholesale markets where prices have risen 80% in the last 12 months. Great idea on paper but totally pointless. Not quite the point. Yes, gas from international markets but without need for profit to line the pockets of overpaid Execs and shareholders as private companies NEED to profit. I've never seen a not for profit energy company although councils tried setting something up. However, if demand for gas demand was reduced (by moving more to electrification of heating) and significant increase in renewables and storage then reliance on gas overall would fall and not be exposed to such high pricing. The reason gas prices are currently so high is that across Europe and here, much of it is being burnt to generate electric to replace lost coal generation - look at current generation mix graphs, gas is significant. My demand on gas and electricity is almost zero for 8 months of the year. Winter, I use gas but on sunny days, use air conditioners set to heat and portable heaters run from the PV panels to reduce gas demand. Gas boiler is only used on very cold days or days of little sun. There needs to be more support (not grants) for others to install Solar and pay it back against savings on bills the same way I paid back mine. Feed in Tariffs and SEG just monetised it and Martin Lewis spewing out "solar isn't worth it" due to low export payments. When I installed mine, it was a gimmick and others laughed but when I tell then the house costs £40 a month in gas and electricity, they soon shut up. It has just gone up to £60 but this year's changes will reduce it to less than £30. This year's plans is to increase battery capacity to cover the cooker and air conditioners running at night. Ultimately on low solar days charging batteries at 5p/kw night car charger rate and use the day after for power, hot water and heating. Gas boiler converted to propane bottles and disconnect from Grid as it won't be use much to get rid of standing charge. If net metering was introduced, many could export their daytime production to Grid while at work against 90% credit of importing it back at night. This would better balance the Grid, lower Gas generation demand during the day and consume excess wind, hydro and nuclear at night. It's working in other countries but as energy suppliers here need to make significant profits, they will fight it to the death. Hence an entity where vast profit is not the goal - state owned 'at cost' providers encouraging those willing to generate their own. It works for me and can work for many others if planned and installed correctly. I get low bills and a lot less guilt on CO2 emission." The green taxes are 10 times what the actual profit is when a bill is broken down.They should bin the green tax for a while but that would upset greta and her friends and carrie wouldn't let boris do that. | |||
"As with all other energy sectors and banking the govt should set up it's own supply company. That would regulate the market without the need for an official regulator that does next to nothing. And the government supply company would get the gas from where? Oh yes....world wholesale markets where prices have risen 80% in the last 12 months. Great idea on paper but totally pointless. Not quite the point. Yes, gas from international markets but without need for profit to line the pockets of overpaid Execs and shareholders as private companies NEED to profit. I've never seen a not for profit energy company although councils tried setting something up. However, if demand for gas demand was reduced (by moving more to electrification of heating) and significant increase in renewables and storage then reliance on gas overall would fall and not be exposed to such high pricing. The reason gas prices are currently so high is that across Europe and here, much of it is being burnt to generate electric to replace lost coal generation - look at current generation mix graphs, gas is significant. My demand on gas and electricity is almost zero for 8 months of the year. Winter, I use gas but on sunny days, use air conditioners set to heat and portable heaters run from the PV panels to reduce gas demand. Gas boiler is only used on very cold days or days of little sun. There needs to be more support (not grants) for others to install Solar and pay it back against savings on bills the same way I paid back mine. Feed in Tariffs and SEG just monetised it and Martin Lewis spewing out "solar isn't worth it" due to low export payments. When I installed mine, it was a gimmick and others laughed but when I tell then the house costs £40 a month in gas and electricity, they soon shut up. It has just gone up to £60 but this year's changes will reduce it to less than £30. This year's plans is to increase battery capacity to cover the cooker and air conditioners running at night. Ultimately on low solar days charging batteries at 5p/kw night car charger rate and use the day after for power, hot water and heating. Gas boiler converted to propane bottles and disconnect from Grid as it won't be use much to get rid of standing charge. If net metering was introduced, many could export their daytime production to Grid while at work against 90% credit of importing it back at night. This would better balance the Grid, lower Gas generation demand during the day and consume excess wind, hydro and nuclear at night. It's working in other countries but as energy suppliers here need to make significant profits, they will fight it to the death. Hence an entity where vast profit is not the goal - state owned 'at cost' providers encouraging those willing to generate their own. It works for me and can work for many others if planned and installed correctly. I get low bills and a lot less guilt on CO2 emission.The green taxes are 10 times what the actual profit is when a bill is broken down.They should bin the green tax for a while but that would upset greta and her friends and carrie wouldn't let boris do that." Or cut back the subsidies to the fossil fuels industry. A cost to the tax payer that dwarfs "green taxes". | |||
| |||
| |||
| |||
| |||
| |||
| |||
| |||
| |||
"As with all other energy sectors and banking the govt should set up it's own supply company. That would regulate the market without the need for an official regulator that does next to nothing. So that's a vote for socialism I hope you voted for Corbyn?" A vote for any party at this moment in time is a vote for socialism. Convid has been a big exercise/ social experiment to push all into that direction. The greater good lie. Social/carbon credit system is coming unless people pull themselves out off just going along with the convenient way in which they are guided.  | |||
"So,,,,,Two weeks before the E U referendum Johnson and Gove wrote in The Sun saying that if we vote to leave we can get rid of VAT on domestic fuel bills , A year after we leave ( over 5years after the vote ) this promise of a brexit bonus ( probably the only one ) has not materialised,so Labour give them a nudge in the right direction calling a vote in parliament asking the government to scrap VAT on fuel bills , the timing being particularly urgent bearing in mind the fear of the impending rise in gas and electricity prices,,,,,Johnson votes against cutting VAT ,Gove votes against cutting VAT infact every Conservative MP who voted ,chose to vote against cutting VAT ,,Apart from one Anne Marie Morris the MP for Newton Abbot in Devon , she must have read Johnson's promise and she voted for a cut in VAT on domestic fuel bills saying it would help her constituants,,,,,,,,,Anne Marie Morris has had the Conservative whip removed ," The vat on energy stands at 5% much better to cut the green levy and put some real money in peoples pockets in these times of rising costs but no boris and his mrs want the uk to lead the world in carbon neutral when in truth this small country doing that wont make one iota of difference. | |||
| |||
"So,,,,,Two weeks before the E U referendum Johnson and Gove wrote in The Sun saying that if we vote to leave we can get rid of VAT on domestic fuel bills , A year after we leave ( over 5years after the vote ) this promise of a brexit bonus ( probably the only one ) has not materialised,so Labour give them a nudge in the right direction calling a vote in parliament asking the government to scrap VAT on fuel bills , the timing being particularly urgent bearing in mind the fear of the impending rise in gas and electricity prices,,,,,Johnson votes against cutting VAT ,Gove votes against cutting VAT infact every Conservative MP who voted ,chose to vote against cutting VAT ,,Apart from one Anne Marie Morris the MP for Newton Abbot in Devon , she must have read Johnson's promise and she voted for a cut in VAT on domestic fuel bills saying it would help her constituants,,,,,,,,,Anne Marie Morris has had the Conservative whip removed ,The vat on energy stands at 5% much better to cut the green levy and put some real money in peoples pockets in these times of rising costs but no boris and his mrs want the uk to lead the world in carbon neutral when in truth this small country doing that wont make one iota of difference. " . ,,, ,,, ,,, ,,, my point wasn't which was the best option ,my point was that the only Tory MP who voted for the promised VAT cut had the whip removed , and the silence from the brexit voters is deafening , | |||
"So,,,,,Two weeks before the E U referendum Johnson and Gove wrote in The Sun saying that if we vote to leave we can get rid of VAT on domestic fuel bills , A year after we leave ( over 5years after the vote ) this promise of a brexit bonus ( probably the only one ) has not materialised,so Labour give them a nudge in the right direction calling a vote in parliament asking the government to scrap VAT on fuel bills , the timing being particularly urgent bearing in mind the fear of the impending rise in gas and electricity prices,,,,,Johnson votes against cutting VAT ,Gove votes against cutting VAT infact every Conservative MP who voted ,chose to vote against cutting VAT ,,Apart from one Anne Marie Morris the MP for Newton Abbot in Devon , she must have read Johnson's promise and she voted for a cut in VAT on domestic fuel bills saying it would help her constituants,,,,,,,,,Anne Marie Morris has had the Conservative whip removed ,The vat on energy stands at 5% much better to cut the green levy and put some real money in peoples pockets in these times of rising costs but no boris and his mrs want the uk to lead the world in carbon neutral when in truth this small country doing that wont make one iota of difference. . ,,, ,,, ,,, ,,, my point wasn't which was the best option ,my point was that the only Tory MP who voted for the promised VAT cut had the whip removed , and the silence from the brexit voters is deafening ," Just that he didnt promise to cut the vat he actually said that the uk could that was not a promise to cut it.But dont let the facts get in the way of a good story. | |||
| |||
"Cutting VAT on fuel is grossly unfair and unequal. I have a friend who spends £2100 per month on energy for house heating, cooking, swimming pool, jacuzzi, sauna, external lighting in his £2m pound house. He can afford to throw the money away although a travesty for Climate Change. So, is cutting 5% off his bills for heating his pool and burning fossil fuel, fair? VAT should be increased and then a fair, means tested way to give people in fuel poverty rebates and vouchers as a way of rebalancing. It should not be across the board as those in need benefit with peanuts. 5% is miniscule on already little usage. If Russia and America carry on threats over gas supply, it is about to get extremely expensive and difficult. " yep i agree it should be charged on usage low users zero rising on usage thats a much fairer system. | |||
| |||
| |||
| |||
| |||
| |||
| |||
"So,,,,,Two weeks before the E U referendum Johnson and Gove wrote in The Sun saying that if we vote to leave we can get rid of VAT on domestic fuel bills , A year after we leave ( over 5years after the vote ) this promise of a brexit bonus ( probably the only one ) has not materialised,so Labour give them a nudge in the right direction calling a vote in parliament asking the government to scrap VAT on fuel bills , the timing being particularly urgent bearing in mind the fear of the impending rise in gas and electricity prices,,,,,Johnson votes against cutting VAT ,Gove votes against cutting VAT infact every Conservative MP who voted ,chose to vote against cutting VAT ,,Apart from one Anne Marie Morris the MP for Newton Abbot in Devon , she must have read Johnson's promise and she voted for a cut in VAT on domestic fuel bills saying it would help her constituants,,,,,,,,,Anne Marie Morris has had the Conservative whip removed ,The vat on energy stands at 5% much better to cut the green levy and put some real money in peoples pockets in these times of rising costs but no boris and his mrs want the uk to lead the world in carbon neutral when in truth this small country doing that wont make one iota of difference. . ,,, ,,, ,,, ,,, my point wasn't which was the best option ,my point was that the only Tory MP who voted for the promised VAT cut had the whip removed , and the silence from the brexit voters is deafening ,Just that he didnt promise to cut the vat he actually said that the uk could that was not a promise to cut it.But dont let the facts get in the way of a good story." . ,, , ,,, ,,, ,,, nice try but wrong ,, the article in The Sun headlined "Boris promises cheaper household gas bills if Brits back brexit" , ,adding "Boris Johnson and Michael Gove today promise to scrap VAT on household energy bills if Britain backs Brexit" ,, " fuel bills will be cheaper for everyone " ,,, ( another example of facts getting in the way of a Johnson lie) | |||
| |||
"So,,,,,Two weeks before the E U referendum Johnson and Gove wrote in The Sun saying that if we vote to leave we can get rid of VAT on domestic fuel bills , A year after we leave ( over 5years after the vote ) this promise of a brexit bonus ( probably the only one ) has not materialised,so Labour give them a nudge in the right direction calling a vote in parliament asking the government to scrap VAT on fuel bills , the timing being particularly urgent bearing in mind the fear of the impending rise in gas and electricity prices,,,,,Johnson votes against cutting VAT ,Gove votes against cutting VAT infact every Conservative MP who voted ,chose to vote against cutting VAT ,,Apart from one Anne Marie Morris the MP for Newton Abbot in Devon , she must have read Johnson's promise and she voted for a cut in VAT on domestic fuel bills saying it would help her constituants,,,,,,,,,Anne Marie Morris has had the Conservative whip removed ,The vat on energy stands at 5% much better to cut the green levy and put some real money in peoples pockets in these times of rising costs but no boris and his mrs want the uk to lead the world in carbon neutral when in truth this small country doing that wont make one iota of difference. . ,,, ,,, ,,, ,,, my point wasn't which was the best option ,my point was that the only Tory MP who voted for the promised VAT cut had the whip removed , and the silence from the brexit voters is deafening ,Just that he didnt promise to cut the vat he actually said that the uk could that was not a promise to cut it.But dont let the facts get in the way of a good story.. ,, , ,,, ,,, ,,, nice try but wrong ,, the article in The Sun headlined "Boris promises cheaper household gas bills if Brits back brexit" , ,adding "Boris Johnson and Michael Gove today promise to scrap VAT on household energy bills if Britain backs Brexit" ,, " fuel bills will be cheaper for everyone " ,,, ( another example of facts getting in the way of a Johnson lie)" It was a headline in the sun? yeah well i guess that makes it right then “When we vote Leave, we will be able to scrap this unfair and damaging tax were the actual words which is true.
| |||
"Not lookin good. Any thoughts on how this will pan out? " There might be a way of beating the upcoming energy price increase. If you have a old card pre payment meter you could top up by a couple hundred quid to last a good few months, when you pre pay the card adjusts the price of the energy on the meter at that time you put it on the meter so if you can go 12 months without topping up say on a gas meter you will have an energy cost not going up for 12 months. | |||
Not heard Martin Lewis mention this one at the time he cost people £millions by falsely telling them to 'Do Nothing'.
Bad advice then issues an apology claiming no crystal ball. It was obvious what would happen. It will be the same again next Autumn, worse it Putin carries on.
I managed to get on one of the last 3 year EDF deals at 19p/kwh Electric and 5.9p/kwh Gas two days after Mr Lewis said not to. So glad I didn't listen to him.
I keep hearing the suggestions of how to save energy on TV, there is little more to squeeze other than freeze, yet, NOT once today have I heard Solar panels and self generation mentioned.
I've done the figures on my system today.
4500kwh's consumed - £900 equivalent
3000kwh's self generated - £600
1500kwh's imported - £300
My Electric bill was £300 last year, with usage equivalent to £900.
Based on new capped rates I am protected from for another 30 months, this year would be:
4500kwh - consumed equivalent £1300
3000kwh - self generated £840
1500kwh - import £420
This year, another 2kw of panels, a bigger set of batteries, convert Combi boiler system to hybrid - hot water cylinder with boiler as back up.
This will Zero Gas consumption from March until October for hot water, batteries storing more for overnight.
4500kwh used includes Air Conditioners running 6 hours per day in summer for cooling, Spring until Autumn for heating. AIR Conditioners are not expensive, bought a 3.5kw (12,000 btu) for £350, I'll fit it myself and it'll cost £90 to have it commissioned by an F Gas engineer.
So for £440, it's a unit that gives 5x more heat than power put in to run it, mainly running from Solar/battery so pretty much - free heat and a lot cheaper than the £15,000 heat pumps the government are pushing.
I have surplus of 300kwh per month in Summer, hence hot water conversion to use it.
| |||
| |||
" At what point do we continue to allow heavy SUV cars to drive on the roads tax free because they are electric. Why should petrol and diesel owners stand the costs of repairing and upgrading the roads We ALL use and wear out. Brand new electric car £35,000+ but it is the guy in the old Bangor is paying for the roads it drives on." I think agree with this. By all means pay less income tax as an incentive for clean car usage but why less road tax as we all use the roads. I don’t have the numbers but what would be the cost per car if we all paid the same road tax again? Would poorer families be even worse off? I don’t know. Anyone? | |||
| |||
| |||
"It seems MPs read my post. Poorer families are already worse off as they are driving older, highly road taxed vehicles as they cannot justify the cost of a newer or electric cars. Yesterday it was announced there is investigation into 'pay per mile' Road funding. In the past I objected to this and even signed petitions to stop it. But now, it's grossly imbalanced, my mother has a 1.3 Fiesta and pays £30 a year, a friend has a 1.6 Nissan Note and pays nearly £200 a year, yet the Note uses less petrol around town and on motorways, why? I have a diesel SUV, costs me nearly £400 per year in tax, yer its more economical than both the Fiesta and the Note at 38mpg. Same drive from Lancashire to Cornwall. Note 35mpg Fiesta 34mpg SUV 38mpg Not much difference round town with them either. Electric cars wear outbtge roads the same as others so at least, there should be a minimum payment for all. " It will come the treasury cant possibly function without the fuel duty the more electric cars we have the less money they get in the money will have to come from somewhere. | |||
| |||
"I think it will come from more congestion charging in urban areas. The rural communities need cars as public services don’t exist. City and town dwellers have busses ( variable services) so it’s a case of you want to drive you pay or you use public transport . Less traffic means less investment in roads. " Fuel duty pays for more than roads it makes up a big chunk of the treasury's income and will have to be found somewhere.Around £37 billion a year. | |||
"I think it will come from more congestion charging in urban areas. The rural communities need cars as public services don’t exist. City and town dwellers have busses ( variable services) so it’s a case of you want to drive you pay or you use public transport . Less traffic means less investment in roads. Fuel duty pays for more than roads it makes up a big chunk of the treasury's income and will have to be found somewhere.Around £37 billion a year. " the car driver is the 5th biggest contributor to the treasury I hear. | |||
| |||
"It seems MPs read my post. Poorer families are already worse off as they are driving older, highly road taxed vehicles as they cannot justify the cost of a newer or electric cars. Yesterday it was announced there is investigation into 'pay per mile' Road funding. In the past I objected to this and even signed petitions to stop it. But now, it's grossly imbalanced, my mother has a 1.3 Fiesta and pays £30 a year, a friend has a 1.6 Nissan Note and pays nearly £200 a year, yet the Note uses less petrol around town and on motorways, why? I have a diesel SUV, costs me nearly £400 per year in tax, yer its more economical than both the Fiesta and the Note at 38mpg. Same drive from Lancashire to Cornwall. Note 35mpg Fiesta 34mpg SUV 38mpg Not much difference round town with them either. Electric cars wear outbtge roads the same as others so at least, there should be a minimum payment for all. " I too read this today. It's no great surprise that they are losing revenue. They have been using the tax system to temp people to use EV's ect but of course at some point they need to replace the money lost. I would not be surprised if EV's wear out the road more than your SUV. They are heavy and the regeneration from braking puts even more force into the road surface | |||
"So,,,,,Two weeks before the E U referendum Johnson and Gove wrote in The Sun saying that if we vote to leave we can get rid of VAT on domestic fuel bills , A year after we leave ( over 5years after the vote ) this promise of a brexit bonus ( probably the only one ) has not materialised,so Labour give them a nudge in the right direction calling a vote in parliament asking the government to scrap VAT on fuel bills , the timing being particularly urgent bearing in mind the fear of the impending rise in gas and electricity prices,,,,,Johnson votes against cutting VAT ,Gove votes against cutting VAT infact every Conservative MP who voted ,chose to vote against cutting VAT ,,Apart from one Anne Marie Morris the MP for Newton Abbot in Devon , she must have read Johnson's promise and she voted for a cut in VAT on domestic fuel bills saying it would help her constituants,,,,,,,,,Anne Marie Morris has had the Conservative whip removed ,The vat on energy stands at 5% much better to cut the green levy and put some real money in peoples pockets in these times of rising costs but no boris and his mrs want the uk to lead the world in carbon neutral when in truth this small country doing that wont make one iota of difference. . ,,, ,,, ,,, ,,, my point wasn't which was the best option ,my point was that the only Tory MP who voted for the promised VAT cut had the whip removed , and the silence from the brexit voters is deafening ,Just that he didnt promise to cut the vat he actually said that the uk could that was not a promise to cut it.But dont let the facts get in the way of a good story.. ,, , ,,, ,,, ,,, nice try but wrong ,, the article in The Sun headlined "Boris promises cheaper household gas bills if Brits back brexit" , ,adding "Boris Johnson and Michael Gove today promise to scrap VAT on household energy bills if Britain backs Brexit" ,, " fuel bills will be cheaper for everyone " ,,, ( another example of facts getting in the way of a Johnson lie)It was a headline in the sun? yeah well i guess that makes it right then “When we vote Leave, we will be able to scrap this unfair and damaging tax were the actual words which is true.
". ,, ,,, ,,, ,,, ,, ,,, thanks for pointing out what I had done , can't believe I had used a Sun headline to make a point ,, it won't happen again , ,for fear of me voting for things like brexit or thinking that the funny man off the tele could possibly lead the country , , anyway as the unfair and damaging tax can now be abolished and those quite rightly calling it so are now the Prime Minister and the levelling up minister perhaps time to see if they can actually spot a brexit bonus when it stares them in the face ,,,( don't hold your breath ) | |||
| |||
"It seems MPs read my post. Poorer families are already worse off as they are driving older, highly road taxed vehicles as they cannot justify the cost of a newer or electric cars. Yesterday it was announced there is investigation into 'pay per mile' Road funding. ….. lol " Putting aside the vehicle used and tax paid for one moment, I wonder what impact “per mile” taxes/charges would have on the poor. Many lower paid jobs can’t be done from home and therefore have to be travelled to. Cleaners, hospitality, building trade, retail/warehouse/factory and ancillary healthcare roles to name a few examples. That factor will need to be considered too I expect. (Mr). | |||
"It seems MPs read my post. Poorer families are already worse off as they are driving older, highly road taxed vehicles as they cannot justify the cost of a newer or electric cars. Yesterday it was announced there is investigation into 'pay per mile' Road funding. ….. lol Putting aside the vehicle used and tax paid for one moment, I wonder what impact “per mile” taxes/charges would have on the poor. Many lower paid jobs can’t be done from home and therefore have to be travelled to. Cleaners, hospitality, building trade, retail/warehouse/factory and ancillary healthcare roles to name a few examples. That factor will need to be considered too I expect. (Mr). " no it wont it will be tough have to use public transport cycle or move closer to your work to many oiks on the road as it is | |||
"It seems MPs read my post. Poorer families are already worse off as they are driving older, highly road taxed vehicles as they cannot justify the cost of a newer or electric cars. Yesterday it was announced there is investigation into 'pay per mile' Road funding. ….. lol Putting aside the vehicle used and tax paid for one moment, I wonder what impact “per mile” taxes/charges would have on the poor. Many lower paid jobs can’t be done from home and therefore have to be travelled to. Cleaners, hospitality, building trade, retail/warehouse/factory and ancillary healthcare roles to name a few examples. That factor will need to be considered too I expect. (Mr). " You mean like water meters, based on two retired people in a house with no kids. I agree, it could be unfair but needs to better than those that can afford it, using roads for nothing. | |||
