FabSwingers.com > Forums > Politics > Still think Russia won't take Ukraine???

Still think Russia won't take Ukraine???

By *mateur100 OP Man over a year ago

nr faversham

Even our secretary of defence says we/NATO won't put troops in so why wouldn't Putin take what he wants? Looks more and more like 1930s German expansion every day.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Russia's not really keen on nato exanding into ukraine, right next door to russia, what options does Russia have? Other than build troops in its own county

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

America is both powerful enough, and unfortunately stupid enough to play with fire. We've already toppled a democratic govt in Ukraine for a more western leaning one in 2014 I think.

Forcing the Russians to act isn't clever. I just hope UK forces don't get dragged into this american stupidity

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *asyukMan over a year ago

West London

Russia has not been "forced" to act.

Putin is aggressive and expansionist and needs external distractions from the crap life and corruption that he provides for most of his people.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *asyukMan over a year ago

West London

"Even our secretary of defence says we/NATO won't put troops in so why wouldn't Putin take what he wants? Looks more and more like 1930s German expansion every day. "

I have no idea how determined NATO is this time around.

Our Defence Secretary is an idiot for saying what he said. Genuinely stupid, but we have the government that we have so it is hardly surprising.

I guess we see.

You are quite right though. If we do nothing then we are not the people and the country that we claim to be.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *uddy laneMan over a year ago

dudley

"Even our secretary of defence says we/NATO won't put troops in so why wouldn't Putin take what he wants? Looks more and more like 1930s German expansion every day.

I have no idea how determined NATO is this time around.

Our Defence Secretary is an idiot for saying what he said. Genuinely stupid, but we have the government that we have so it is hardly surprising.

I guess we see.

You are quite right though. If we do nothing then we are not the people and the country that we claim to be."

Well I'm definitely going to be doing nothing, like grabbing my pack changing out of my civis and pointing towards Russia with a full clip.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Even our secretary of defence says we/NATO won't put troops in so why wouldn't Putin take what he wants? Looks more and more like 1930s German expansion every day.

I have no idea how determined NATO is this time around.

Our Defence Secretary is an idiot for saying what he said. Genuinely stupid, but we have the government that we have so it is hardly surprising.

I guess we see.

You are quite right though. If we do nothing then we are not the people and the country that we claim to be."

What option does Putin have when NATO is nearly on Russia's border?

A country that did have a democratically elected leader before the West help topple it

American track record on invading countries isn't good compared to Russia's.

Wars across the middle East and North Africa

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

My question is, is it worth going to war especially as an American proxy army (nato) for the Ukraine? If Russia invaded it

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ealthy_and_HungMan over a year ago

Princes Risborough, Luasanne, Alderney

borris doesn't want to rock the boat with russia or there goes the vasy majority of the conservative and unionist party funding which would piss off his far right back benchers even more than they are already

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"borris doesn't want to rock the boat with russia or there goes the vasy majority of the conservative and unionist party funding which would piss off his far right back benchers even more than they are already

Lol yeah I agree

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ebbie69Couple over a year ago

milton keynes

"My question is, is it worth going to war especially as an American proxy army (nato) for the Ukraine? If Russia invaded it"

As Ukraine is not a NATO member I don't see them rushing to fight the Russians directly and are not obliged to. More likely financial and trade punishment. Also maybe smuggle arms and intelligence to any resistance groups

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *oxychick35Couple over a year ago

thornaby

"Even our secretary of defence says we/NATO won't put troops in so why wouldn't Putin take what he wants? Looks more and more like 1930s German expansion every day.

I have no idea how determined NATO is this time around.

Our Defence Secretary is an idiot for saying what he said. Genuinely stupid, but we have the government that we have so it is hardly surprising.

I guess we see.

You are quite right though. If we do nothing then we are not the people and the country that we claim to be."
ah so you are all for the U.K. getting involved then ? I thought the U.K. involvement in other countries was a disaster iraq Afghanistan Syria

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *asyukMan over a year ago

West London

"Even our secretary of defence says we/NATO won't put troops in so why wouldn't Putin take what he wants? Looks more and more like 1930s German expansion every day.

I have no idea how determined NATO is this time around.

Our Defence Secretary is an idiot for saying what he said. Genuinely stupid, but we have the government that we have so it is hardly surprising.

I guess we see.

You are quite right though. If we do nothing then we are not the people and the country that we claim to be.

What option does Putin have when NATO is nearly on Russia's border?

A country that did have a democratically elected leader before the West help topple it

American track record on invading countries isn't good compared to Russia's.

Wars across the middle East and North Africa

Russia is on NATOs borders. What's you're point?

Putin's option is not to mass forces on his border and threaten to invade. Who is actually threatening Russian territory? Is Ukraine a military threat?

Democratically elected government leader toppled by the West? Sounds like a conspiracy theory. More or less "democratic" than Russia? "Toppled" by the West how?

The US has a terrible foreign policy history. That does not make anything that Putin is doing acceptable.

You are really going into bat for Putin? Really?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *asyukMan over a year ago

West London

"Even our secretary of defence says we/NATO won't put troops in so why wouldn't Putin take what he wants? Looks more and more like 1930s German expansion every day.

I have no idea how determined NATO is this time around.

Our Defence Secretary is an idiot for saying what he said. Genuinely stupid, but we have the government that we have so it is hardly surprising.

I guess we see.

You are quite right though. If we do nothing then we are not the people and the country that we claim to be. ah so you are all for the U.K. getting involved then ? I thought the U.K. involvement in other countries was a disaster iraq Afghanistan Syria "

No, silly man. Not knowing what the outcome of brinkmanship will be is an essential diplomatic tool. Essentially our Secretary of Defence has told Putin to do what he wants militarily because there will be no direct consequences. This is showing weakness to a "strongman" leader.

You know this.

I have not ever said that foreign interventions should not happen. You are reading what you want into things. What is necessary is a clear understanding of what you want to achieve and what the exit strategy is. We have a hopeless, chaotic, introspective government.

What do you think that the UK should do?

"Strong" or "weak"?

Look after ourselves or look globally?

Hmmm?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *asyukMan over a year ago

West London

"My question is, is it worth going to war especially as an American proxy army (nato) for the Ukraine? If Russia invaded it

I agree, but "military advisors" on the ground are a well trodden path to deterring an aggressor chancing their arm.

Of course, the risk is that the regular and irregular Russian forces have a history of I'll discipline. Remember the Malaysian Airlines jet?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ebbie69Couple over a year ago

milton keynes

"My question is, is it worth going to war especially as an American proxy army (nato) for the Ukraine? If Russia invaded it

I agree, but "military advisors" on the ground are a well trodden path to deterring an aggressor chancing their arm.

Of course, the risk is that the regular and irregular Russian forces have a history of I'll discipline. Remember the Malaysian Airlines jet?"

I think if NATO put in miliary advisors it could provoke Russia. Maybe UN ones instead though still a risk. Do you think the UK should get involved directly (troops fighting) if Russia does invade?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *uddy laneMan over a year ago

dudley

"Even our secretary of defence says we/NATO won't put troops in so why wouldn't Putin take what he wants? Looks more and more like 1930s German expansion every day.

I have no idea how determined NATO is this time around.

Our Defence Secretary is an idiot for saying what he said. Genuinely stupid, but we have the government that we have so it is hardly surprising.

I guess we see.

You are quite right though. If we do nothing then we are not the people and the country that we claim to be.

What option does Putin have when NATO is nearly on Russia's border?

A country that did have a democratically elected leader before the West help topple it

American track record on invading countries isn't good compared to Russia's.

Wars across the middle East and North Africa

Russia is on NATOs borders. What's you're point?

Putin's option is not to mass forces on his border and threaten to invade. Who is actually threatening Russian territory? Is Ukraine a military threat?

Democratically elected government leader toppled by the West? Sounds like a conspiracy theory. More or less "democratic" than Russia? "Toppled" by the West how?

The US has a terrible foreign policy history. That does not make anything that Putin is doing acceptable.

You are really going into bat for Putin? Really?"

The Ukraine conflict is all about the Yanukovych government rejected the European Union’s terms for an association agreement in late 2013 in favor of a Russian offer, which pissed of the Obama administration they sent John mc cain over.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *asyukMan over a year ago

West London

"My question is, is it worth going to war especially as an American proxy army (nato) for the Ukraine? If Russia invaded it

I agree, but "military advisors" on the ground are a well trodden path to deterring an aggressor chancing their arm.

Of course, the risk is that the regular and irregular Russian forces have a history of I'll discipline. Remember the Malaysian Airlines jet?

I think if NATO put in miliary advisors it could provoke Russia. Maybe UN ones instead though still a risk. Do you think the UK should get involved directly (troops fighting) if Russia does invade?"

So we should not 'provoke' Russia? We should allow Putin to do as he wishes?

What are the consequences of that?

This is brinkmanship. It's very deliberate. Will Russia attack Ukraine if there are NATO troops there?

This is old-fashioned realpolitik.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *asyukMan over a year ago

West London

"Even our secretary of defence says we/NATO won't put troops in so why wouldn't Putin take what he wants? Looks more and more like 1930s German expansion every day.

I have no idea how determined NATO is this time around.

Our Defence Secretary is an idiot for saying what he said. Genuinely stupid, but we have the government that we have so it is hardly surprising.

I guess we see.

You are quite right though. If we do nothing then we are not the people and the country that we claim to be.

What option does Putin have when NATO is nearly on Russia's border?

A country that did have a democratically elected leader before the West help topple it

American track record on invading countries isn't good compared to Russia's.

Wars across the middle East and North Africa

Russia is on NATOs borders. What's you're point?

Putin's option is not to mass forces on his border and threaten to invade. Who is actually threatening Russian territory? Is Ukraine a military threat?

Democratically elected government leader toppled by the West? Sounds like a conspiracy theory. More or less "democratic" than Russia? "Toppled" by the West how?

The US has a terrible foreign policy history. That does not make anything that Putin is doing acceptable.

You are really going into bat for Putin? Really?

"All about" the EU and USA being upset? Why is Putin involved massing troops on the border now then?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *uddy laneMan over a year ago

dudley

"Even our secretary of defence says we/NATO won't put troops in so why wouldn't Putin take what he wants? Looks more and more like 1930s German expansion every day.

I have no idea how determined NATO is this time around.

Our Defence Secretary is an idiot for saying what he said. Genuinely stupid, but we have the government that we have so it is hardly surprising.

I guess we see.

You are quite right though. If we do nothing then we are not the people and the country that we claim to be.

What option does Putin have when NATO is nearly on Russia's border?

A country that did have a democratically elected leader before the West help topple it

American track record on invading countries isn't good compared to Russia's.

Wars across the middle East and North Africa

Russia is on NATOs borders. What's you're point?

Putin's option is not to mass forces on his border and threaten to invade. Who is actually threatening Russian territory? Is Ukraine a military threat?

Democratically elected government leader toppled by the West? Sounds like a conspiracy theory. More or less "democratic" than Russia? "Toppled" by the West how?

The US has a terrible foreign policy history. That does not make anything that Putin is doing acceptable.

You are really going into bat for Putin? Really?

"All about" the EU and USA being upset? Why is Putin involved massing troops on the border now then?"

Maybe he is pissed off that one of the only 2 countries who voted against a Un resolution condemning nazism is on its border.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

You are really going into bat for Putin? Really?"

Yes I am, because I'm not a hypocrite.

- Read up on 2013 and the overthrow of the Ukraine government

- Check which counties have joined nato since the end of the ussr spreading East.

You said yourself American foreign policy is terrible.

Inviting the Ukraine into nato which has been given a green flag, to me is incredibly fucking stupid.

I'd be seeking to get the UK out of nato before America starts yet another fucking stupid war

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *asyukMan over a year ago

West London

You are really going into bat for Putin? Really?

Yes I am, because I'm not a hypocrite.

- Read up on 2013 and the overthrow of the Ukraine government

- Check which counties have joined nato since the end of the ussr spreading East.

You said yourself American foreign policy is terrible.

Inviting the Ukraine into nato which has been given a green flag, to me is incredibly fucking stupid.

I'd be seeking to get the UK out of nato before America starts yet another fucking stupid war

I have. Sounds like a conspiracy theory like any other.

The democratically elected government wanted closer ties to the EU and was pressured out of it by Russia.

Not disputed.

There were mass protests. Remember the pictures? Almost two hundred shot by the Ukrainian security services. That is true, right?

President signs an agreement with the opposition and then flees to Russia when impeached. Also true?

Asks for Russia to "get his country back". Also true?

Why should any country be prevented from joining an international organisation because it upsets someone else?

Should Poland, Lithuania, Estonia and Latvia be booted out?

The UK pretends it has big boy military pants but does not. We need NATO in the same way as we should have remained in the EU. Not to be bullied.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *asyukMan over a year ago

West London

"Even our secretary of defence says we/NATO won't put troops in so why wouldn't Putin take what he wants? Looks more and more like 1930s German expansion every day.

I have no idea how determined NATO is this time around.

Our Defence Secretary is an idiot for saying what he said. Genuinely stupid, but we have the government that we have so it is hardly surprising.

I guess we see.

You are quite right though. If we do nothing then we are not the people and the country that we claim to be.

What option does Putin have when NATO is nearly on Russia's border?

A country that did have a democratically elected leader before the West help topple it

American track record on invading countries isn't good compared to Russia's.

Wars across the middle East and North Africa

Russia is on NATOs borders. What's you're point?

Putin's option is not to mass forces on his border and threaten to invade. Who is actually threatening Russian territory? Is Ukraine a military threat?

Democratically elected government leader toppled by the West? Sounds like a conspiracy theory. More or less "democratic" than Russia? "Toppled" by the West how?

The US has a terrible foreign policy history. That does not make anything that Putin is doing acceptable.

You are really going into bat for Putin? Really?

"All about" the EU and USA being upset? Why is Putin involved massing troops on the border now then?

Maybe he is pissed off that one of the only 2 countries who voted against a Un resolution condemning nazism is on its border. "

Oh. Is that the reason? Nothing to do with Putin needing a nationalist external conflict to distract from internal discontent?

I'm not going to pretend to understand the logic of the USA and Ukraine voting against the resolution, but it doesn't really explain this situation at all.

However, if you feel that Putin is a victim in all of this then you are welcome to. Poor chap.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Declassified US, Soviet, German, British and French documents from the national security archives, however, provide conclusive evidence of breached promises made to President Mikhail Gorbachev by President George H. W. Bush, Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher, President Francois Mitterrand, Chancellor Helmut Kohl and their foreign ministers in 1990: not to expand NATO eastward, and not to extend membership in the Nato alliance to former member states of the Warsaw Pact.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *uddy laneMan over a year ago

dudley

"Even our secretary of defence says we/NATO won't put troops in so why wouldn't Putin take what he wants? Looks more and more like 1930s German expansion every day.

I have no idea how determined NATO is this time around.

Our Defence Secretary is an idiot for saying what he said. Genuinely stupid, but we have the government that we have so it is hardly surprising.

I guess we see.

You are quite right though. If we do nothing then we are not the people and the country that we claim to be.

What option does Putin have when NATO is nearly on Russia's border?

A country that did have a democratically elected leader before the West help topple it

American track record on invading countries isn't good compared to Russia's.

Wars across the middle East and North Africa

Russia is on NATOs borders. What's you're point?

Putin's option is not to mass forces on his border and threaten to invade. Who is actually threatening Russian territory? Is Ukraine a military threat?

Democratically elected government leader toppled by the West? Sounds like a conspiracy theory. More or less "democratic" than Russia? "Toppled" by the West how?

The US has a terrible foreign policy history. That does not make anything that Putin is doing acceptable.

You are really going into bat for Putin? Really?

"All about" the EU and USA being upset? Why is Putin involved massing troops on the border now then?

Maybe he is pissed off that one of the only 2 countries who voted against a Un resolution condemning nazism is on its border.

Oh. Is that the reason? Nothing to do with Putin needing a nationalist external conflict to distract from internal discontent?

I'm not going to pretend to understand the logic of the USA and Ukraine voting against the resolution, but it doesn't really explain this situation at all.

However, if you feel that Putin is a victim in all of this then you are welcome to. Poor chap."

They are sympathisers I can see it and i do not reject it.

20 million people lost in the fight against nazism and it is on its borders again.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Yljust checked, yanukovych was democratically elected.

If he was pro western, would his overthrow be still welcomed?

But more importantly, are we entitled to meddle in other country's internal affairs?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Even our secretary of defence says we/NATO won't put troops in so why wouldn't Putin take what he wants? Looks more and more like 1930s German expansion every day.

I have no idea how determined NATO is this time around.

Our Defence Secretary is an idiot for saying what he said. Genuinely stupid, but we have the government that we have so it is hardly surprising.

I guess we see.

You are quite right though. If we do nothing then we are not the people and the country that we claim to be.

What option does Putin have when NATO is nearly on Russia's border?

A country that did have a democratically elected leader before the West help topple it

American track record on invading countries isn't good compared to Russia's.

Wars across the middle East and North Africa

Russia is on NATOs borders. What's you're point?

Putin's option is not to mass forces on his border and threaten to invade. Who is actually threatening Russian territory? Is Ukraine a military threat?

Democratically elected government leader toppled by the West? Sounds like a conspiracy theory. More or less "democratic" than Russia? "Toppled" by the West how?

The US has a terrible foreign policy history. That does not make anything that Putin is doing acceptable.

You are really going into bat for Putin? Really?

"All about" the EU and USA being upset? Why is Putin involved massing troops on the border now then?

Maybe he is pissed off that one of the only 2 countries who voted against a Un resolution condemning nazism is on its border.

Oh. Is that the reason? Nothing to do with Putin needing a nationalist external conflict to distract from internal discontent?

I'm not going to pretend to understand the logic of the USA and Ukraine voting against the resolution, but it doesn't really explain this situation at all.

However, if you feel that Putin is a victim in all of this then you are welcome to. Poor chap.

They are sympathisers I can see it and i do not reject it.

20 million people lost in the fight against nazism and it is on its borders again."

Yes I've seen the lightning flash logo style fascist leanings on the badges of some militia group. If it turns out the West is supporting them it doesn't look good

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *uddy laneMan over a year ago

dudley

[Removed by poster at 19/12/21 18:50:46]

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *V-AliceTV/TS over a year ago

Ayr

"Even our secretary of defence says we/NATO won't put troops in so why wouldn't Putin take what he wants? Looks more and more like 1930s German expansion every day. "

No it doesn't. That's a lazy, uninformed comparison.

There's never been any question of NATO troops being deployed to defend Ukraine against a Russian invasion. The Ukrainians know that, so does Putin, so does Biden.

If - and it's still a pretty big if - Putin decides to invade Ukraine, he won't be taking all of it; it's simply too big.

He's going to have to ask himself if the bit that he can take, is worth having his economy - which is already weak - very badly fucked by the financial clout of the Western governments.

Those same governments are actively starving Afghan women and children to death, right now, via financial sanctions.

So, Putin shouldn't doubt their ability to cause him genuine problems, IF he does something stupid.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *uddy laneMan over a year ago

dudley

"Even our secretary of defence says we/NATO won't put troops in so why wouldn't Putin take what he wants? Looks more and more like 1930s German expansion every day.

I have no idea how determined NATO is this time around.

Our Defence Secretary is an idiot for saying what he said. Genuinely stupid, but we have the government that we have so it is hardly surprising.

I guess we see.

You are quite right though. If we do nothing then we are not the people and the country that we claim to be.

What option does Putin have when NATO is nearly on Russia's border?

A country that did have a democratically elected leader before the West help topple it

American track record on invading countries isn't good compared to Russia's.

Wars across the middle East and North Africa

Russia is on NATOs borders. What's you're point?

Putin's option is not to mass forces on his border and threaten to invade. Who is actually threatening Russian territory? Is Ukraine a military threat?

Democratically elected government leader toppled by the West? Sounds like a conspiracy theory. More or less "democratic" than Russia? "Toppled" by the West how?

The US has a terrible foreign policy history. That does not make anything that Putin is doing acceptable.

You are really going into bat for Putin? Really?

"All about" the EU and USA being upset? Why is Putin involved massing troops on the border now then?

Maybe he is pissed off that one of the only 2 countries who voted against a Un resolution condemning nazism is on its border.

Oh. Is that the reason? Nothing to do with Putin needing a nationalist external conflict to distract from internal discontent?

I'm not going to pretend to understand the logic of the USA and Ukraine voting against the resolution, but it doesn't really explain this situation at all.

However, if you feel that Putin is a victim in all of this then you are welcome to. Poor chap.

They are sympathisers I can see it and i do not reject it.

20 million people lost in the fight against nazism and it is on its borders again.

Yes I've seen the lightning flash logo style fascist leanings on the badges of some militia group. If it turns out the West is supporting them it doesn't look good "

Aslong as the reality we are show is all the support we are giving does look good and wholesome.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *asyukMan over a year ago

West London

"Declassified US, Soviet, German, British and French documents from the national security archives, however, provide conclusive evidence of breached promises made to President Mikhail Gorbachev by President George H. W. Bush, Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher, President Francois Mitterrand, Chancellor Helmut Kohl and their foreign ministers in 1990: not to expand NATO eastward, and not to extend membership in the Nato alliance to former member states of the Warsaw Pact. "

I'm not saying that's OK.

It also does not make what Russia does OK.

Again though, is it alright to prevent a country from joining an international organisation if it is legitimately entitled to?

Why should a small state not be allowed to join a group to provide mutual support?

Should we prevent individuals from joining a trade union because the company and the TUC agreed?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *asyukMan over a year ago

West London

"Yljust checked, yanukovych was democratically elected.

If he was pro western, would his overthrow be still welcomed?

But more importantly, are we entitled to meddle in other country's internal affairs?

He was pro-Western. I stepped through what happened. He was pressurised by Russia to not be.

I stepped through what happened.

Do you disagree with those events or is there some "special" information that is not widely available that you have access to?

I wouldn't roll over for Russia or China anymore than I would for BoJo.

Bad is bad. Stand up for your principles. Don't let the bully win.

Which ones are you defending here?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *asyukMan over a year ago

West London

"Even our secretary of defence says we/NATO won't put troops in so why wouldn't Putin take what he wants? Looks more and more like 1930s German expansion every day.

I have no idea how determined NATO is this time around.

Our Defence Secretary is an idiot for saying what he said. Genuinely stupid, but we have the government that we have so it is hardly surprising.

I guess we see.

You are quite right though. If we do nothing then we are not the people and the country that we claim to be.

What option does Putin have when NATO is nearly on Russia's border?

A country that did have a democratically elected leader before the West help topple it

American track record on invading countries isn't good compared to Russia's.

Wars across the middle East and North Africa

Russia is on NATOs borders. What's you're point?

Putin's option is not to mass forces on his border and threaten to invade. Who is actually threatening Russian territory? Is Ukraine a military threat?

Democratically elected government leader toppled by the West? Sounds like a conspiracy theory. More or less "democratic" than Russia? "Toppled" by the West how?

The US has a terrible foreign policy history. That does not make anything that Putin is doing acceptable.

You are really going into bat for Putin? Really?

"All about" the EU and USA being upset? Why is Putin involved massing troops on the border now then?

Maybe he is pissed off that one of the only 2 countries who voted against a Un resolution condemning nazism is on its border.

Oh. Is that the reason? Nothing to do with Putin needing a nationalist external conflict to distract from internal discontent?

I'm not going to pretend to understand the logic of the USA and Ukraine voting against the resolution, but it doesn't really explain this situation at all.

However, if you feel that Putin is a victim in all of this then you are welcome to. Poor chap.

They are sympathisers I can see it and i do not reject it.

20 million people lost in the fight against nazism and it is on its borders again.

Yes I've seen the lightning flash logo style fascist leanings on the badges of some militia group. If it turns out the West is supporting them it doesn't look good "

Russia has very hard right views on all manner of things. From homosexuality to religion to views on racial purity.

What's the equivalence here? Is it a particular label that makes one worse than another?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *asyukMan over a year ago

West London

Let's distill this a little.

Should Russia, with significant military force, be allowed to invade and take whatever part of any neighboring state that it wishes to?

Should we object in any way?

If we can, should we take measures to prevent an invasion or allow it to happen and then punish them after the event but allow them to take what they wish and de facto retain in it?

What we do and have done for good or ill is a separate question. What do we do in this, specific, circumstance?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *uddy laneMan over a year ago

dudley

"Even our secretary of defence says we/NATO won't put troops in so why wouldn't Putin take what he wants? Looks more and more like 1930s German expansion every day.

I have no idea how determined NATO is this time around.

Our Defence Secretary is an idiot for saying what he said. Genuinely stupid, but we have the government that we have so it is hardly surprising.

I guess we see.

You are quite right though. If we do nothing then we are not the people and the country that we claim to be.

What option does Putin have when NATO is nearly on Russia's border?

A country that did have a democratically elected leader before the West help topple it

American track record on invading countries isn't good compared to Russia's.

Wars across the middle East and North Africa

Russia is on NATOs borders. What's you're point?

Putin's option is not to mass forces on his border and threaten to invade. Who is actually threatening Russian territory? Is Ukraine a military threat?

Democratically elected government leader toppled by the West? Sounds like a conspiracy theory. More or less "democratic" than Russia? "Toppled" by the West how?

The US has a terrible foreign policy history. That does not make anything that Putin is doing acceptable.

You are really going into bat for Putin? Really?

"All about" the EU and USA being upset? Why is Putin involved massing troops on the border now then?

Maybe he is pissed off that one of the only 2 countries who voted against a Un resolution condemning nazism is on its border.

Oh. Is that the reason? Nothing to do with Putin needing a nationalist external conflict to distract from internal discontent?

I'm not going to pretend to understand the logic of the USA and Ukraine voting against the resolution, but it doesn't really explain this situation at all.

However, if you feel that Putin is a victim in all of this then you are welcome to. Poor chap.

They are sympathisers I can see it and i do not reject it.

20 million people lost in the fight against nazism and it is on its borders again.

Yes I've seen the lightning flash logo style fascist leanings on the badges of some militia group. If it turns out the West is supporting them it doesn't look good

Russia has very hard right views on all manner of things. From homosexuality to religion to views on racial purity.

What's the equivalence here? Is it a particular label that makes one worse than another?"

I think nazism is at the top of the pile on that one.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *oxychick35Couple over a year ago

thornaby

"Even our secretary of defence says we/NATO won't put troops in so why wouldn't Putin take what he wants? Looks more and more like 1930s German expansion every day.

I have no idea how determined NATO is this time around.

Our Defence Secretary is an idiot for saying what he said. Genuinely stupid, but we have the government that we have so it is hardly surprising.

I guess we see.

You know this.

What do you think that the UK should do?

"Strong" or "weak"?

Look after ourselves or look globally?

Hmmm?"
I think we should keep out of it

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ebbie69Couple over a year ago

milton keynes

"My question is, is it worth going to war especially as an American proxy army (nato) for the Ukraine? If Russia invaded it

I agree, but "military advisors" on the ground are a well trodden path to deterring an aggressor chancing their arm.

Of course, the risk is that the regular and irregular Russian forces have a history of I'll discipline. Remember the Malaysian Airlines jet?

I think if NATO put in miliary advisors it could provoke Russia. Maybe UN ones instead though still a risk. Do you think the UK should get involved directly (troops fighting) if Russia does invade?

So we should not 'provoke' Russia? We should allow Putin to do as he wishes?

What are the consequences of that?

This is brinkmanship. It's very deliberate. Will Russia attack Ukraine if there are NATO troops there?

This is old-fashioned realpolitik."

This is Just a personal opinion. I don't know what's going to happen. I think putting in anything NATO into Ukraine is provoking Russia but worse gives them (in their minds) an excuse to invade and easier to sell it to the local population. I prefer that they reduce the tension and if Russia does invade hit the economy as much as is possible. Also try to support any resistance. Do you think the UK get involved in a military way?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *asyukMan over a year ago

West London

"Even our secretary of defence says we/NATO won't put troops in so why wouldn't Putin take what he wants? Looks more and more like 1930s German expansion every day.

I have no idea how determined NATO is this time around.

Our Defence Secretary is an idiot for saying what he said. Genuinely stupid, but we have the government that we have so it is hardly surprising.

I guess we see.

You are quite right though. If we do nothing then we are not the people and the country that we claim to be.

What option does Putin have when NATO is nearly on Russia's border?

A country that did have a democratically elected leader before the West help topple it

American track record on invading countries isn't good compared to Russia's.

Wars across the middle East and North Africa

Russia is on NATOs borders. What's you're point?

Putin's option is not to mass forces on his border and threaten to invade. Who is actually threatening Russian territory? Is Ukraine a military threat?

Democratically elected government leader toppled by the West? Sounds like a conspiracy theory. More or less "democratic" than Russia? "Toppled" by the West how?

The US has a terrible foreign policy history. That does not make anything that Putin is doing acceptable.

You are really going into bat for Putin? Really?

"All about" the EU and USA being upset? Why is Putin involved massing troops on the border now then?

Maybe he is pissed off that one of the only 2 countries who voted against a Un resolution condemning nazism is on its border.

Oh. Is that the reason? Nothing to do with Putin needing a nationalist external conflict to distract from internal discontent?

I'm not going to pretend to understand the logic of the USA and Ukraine voting against the resolution, but it doesn't really explain this situation at all.

However, if you feel that Putin is a victim in all of this then you are welcome to. Poor chap.

They are sympathisers I can see it and i do not reject it.

20 million people lost in the fight against nazism and it is on its borders again.

Yes I've seen the lightning flash logo style fascist leanings on the badges of some militia group. If it turns out the West is supporting them it doesn't look good

Russia has very hard right views on all manner of things. From homosexuality to religion to views on racial purity.

What's the equivalence here? Is it a particular label that makes one worse than another?

I think nazism is at the top of the pile on that one."

Really? So if Russia has almost exactly the same policies now but is not called Nazism that's Okay?

What's your sanction against the USA for the same position?

Also interested to know what your view is on Russia being able to do whatever it wants is, as I posted above?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *asyukMan over a year ago

West London

"My question is, is it worth going to war especially as an American proxy army (nato) for the Ukraine? If Russia invaded it

I agree, but "military advisors" on the ground are a well trodden path to deterring an aggressor chancing their arm.

Of course, the risk is that the regular and irregular Russian forces have a history of I'll discipline. Remember the Malaysian Airlines jet?

I think if NATO put in miliary advisors it could provoke Russia. Maybe UN ones instead though still a risk. Do you think the UK should get involved directly (troops fighting) if Russia does invade?

So we should not 'provoke' Russia? We should allow Putin to do as he wishes?

What are the consequences of that?

This is brinkmanship. It's very deliberate. Will Russia attack Ukraine if there are NATO troops there?

This is old-fashioned realpolitik.

Then Russia gets what it wants. It will already have calculated any non-military consequences.

What is now clear is that there is no military consequences to any action that it takes.

Why should this reduce tension. Why not just ask for more concessions or take more by force?

I do not know what will happen. I have no more information than you. The UK has said it will do, more or less, nothing. Russia also knows that we will still take theironey so our threats hold little concern.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *asyukMan over a year ago

West London

"Even our secretary of defence says we/NATO won't put troops in so why wouldn't Putin take what he wants? Looks more and more like 1930s German expansion every day.

I have no idea how determined NATO is this time around.

Our Defence Secretary is an idiot for saying what he said. Genuinely stupid, but we have the government that we have so it is hardly surprising.

I guess we see.

You know this.

What do you think that the UK should do?

"Strong" or "weak"?

Look after ourselves or look globally?

Hmmm?I think we should keep out of it "

So Russia should be allowed to do whatever it wants?

China too?

Anybody in fact. We just mind our own business. Always?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *uddy laneMan over a year ago

dudley

"Even our secretary of defence says we/NATO won't put troops in so why wouldn't Putin take what he wants? Looks more and more like 1930s German expansion every day.

I have no idea how determined NATO is this time around.

Our Defence Secretary is an idiot for saying what he said. Genuinely stupid, but we have the government that we have so it is hardly surprising.

I guess we see.

You are quite right though. If we do nothing then we are not the people and the country that we claim to be.

What option does Putin have when NATO is nearly on Russia's border?

A country that did have a democratically elected leader before the West help topple it

American track record on invading countries isn't good compared to Russia's.

Wars across the middle East and North Africa

Russia is on NATOs borders. What's you're point?

Putin's option is not to mass forces on his border and threaten to invade. Who is actually threatening Russian territory? Is Ukraine a military threat?

Democratically elected government leader toppled by the West? Sounds like a conspiracy theory. More or less "democratic" than Russia? "Toppled" by the West how?

The US has a terrible foreign policy history. That does not make anything that Putin is doing acceptable.

You are really going into bat for Putin? Really?

"All about" the EU and USA being upset? Why is Putin involved massing troops on the border now then?

Maybe he is pissed off that one of the only 2 countries who voted against a Un resolution condemning nazism is on its border.

Oh. Is that the reason? Nothing to do with Putin needing a nationalist external conflict to distract from internal discontent?

I'm not going to pretend to understand the logic of the USA and Ukraine voting against the resolution, but it doesn't really explain this situation at all.

However, if you feel that Putin is a victim in all of this then you are welcome to. Poor chap.

They are sympathisers I can see it and i do not reject it.

20 million people lost in the fight against nazism and it is on its borders again.

Yes I've seen the lightning flash logo style fascist leanings on the badges of some militia group. If it turns out the West is supporting them it doesn't look good

Russia has very hard right views on all manner of things. From homosexuality to religion to views on racial purity.

What's the equivalence here? Is it a particular label that makes one worse than another?

I think nazism is at the top of the pile on that one.

Really? So if Russia has almost exactly the same policies now but is not called Nazism that's Okay?

What's your sanction against the USA for the same position?

Also interested to know what your view is on Russia being able to do whatever it wants is, as I posted above?"

Russia drafted the Un resolution it would be silly of them to be caught out what they are condemning.

My ""sanctions on the USA are to make the population suffer hardship. That is how sanctions work

what is Russia doing that gets your back up.?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ebbie69Couple over a year ago

milton keynes

"My question is, is it worth going to war especially as an American proxy army (nato) for the Ukraine? If Russia invaded it

I agree, but "military advisors" on the ground are a well trodden path to deterring an aggressor chancing their arm.

Of course, the risk is that the regular and irregular Russian forces have a history of I'll discipline. Remember the Malaysian Airlines jet?

I think if NATO put in miliary advisors it could provoke Russia. Maybe UN ones instead though still a risk. Do you think the UK should get involved directly (troops fighting) if Russia does invade?

So we should not 'provoke' Russia? We should allow Putin to do as he wishes?

What are the consequences of that?

This is brinkmanship. It's very deliberate. Will Russia attack Ukraine if there are NATO troops there?

This is old-fashioned realpolitik.

Then Russia gets what it wants. It will already have calculated any non-military consequences.

What is now clear is that there is no military consequences to any action that it takes.

Why should this reduce tension. Why not just ask for more concessions or take more by force?

I understand your frustration but think we are limited on what we or NATO can do unless we go for all out war which is a disaster for all. I think hitting the Russian economy is the preferable to war. Yes it's after the event but to say an invasion would not have consequences is incorrect in my opinion. Do you think the UK should get involved in a military way?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *asyukMan over a year ago

West London

"Even our secretary of defence says we/NATO won't put troops in so why wouldn't Putin take what he wants? Looks more and more like 1930s German expansion every day.

I have no idea how determined NATO is this time around.

Our Defence Secretary is an idiot for saying what he said. Genuinely stupid, but we have the government that we have so it is hardly surprising.

I guess we see.

You are quite right though. If we do nothing then we are not the people and the country that we claim to be.

What option does Putin have when NATO is nearly on Russia's border?

A country that did have a democratically elected leader before the West help topple it

American track record on invading countries isn't good compared to Russia's.

Wars across the middle East and North Africa

Russia is on NATOs borders. What's you're point?

Putin's option is not to mass forces on his border and threaten to invade. Who is actually threatening Russian territory? Is Ukraine a military threat?

Democratically elected government leader toppled by the West? Sounds like a conspiracy theory. More or less "democratic" than Russia? "Toppled" by the West how?

The US has a terrible foreign policy history. That does not make anything that Putin is doing acceptable.

You are really going into bat for Putin? Really?

"All about" the EU and USA being upset? Why is Putin involved massing troops on the border now then?

Maybe he is pissed off that one of the only 2 countries who voted against a Un resolution condemning nazism is on its border.

Oh. Is that the reason? Nothing to do with Putin needing a nationalist external conflict to distract from internal discontent?

I'm not going to pretend to understand the logic of the USA and Ukraine voting against the resolution, but it doesn't really explain this situation at all.

However, if you feel that Putin is a victim in all of this then you are welcome to. Poor chap.

They are sympathisers I can see it and i do not reject it.

20 million people lost in the fight against nazism and it is on its borders again.

Yes I've seen the lightning flash logo style fascist leanings on the badges of some militia group. If it turns out the West is supporting them it doesn't look good

Russia has very hard right views on all manner of things. From homosexuality to religion to views on racial purity.

What's the equivalence here? Is it a particular label that makes one worse than another?

I think nazism is at the top of the pile on that one.

Really? So if Russia has almost exactly the same policies now but is not called Nazism that's Okay?

What's your sanction against the USA for the same position?

Also interested to know what your view is on Russia being able to do whatever it wants is, as I posted above?

Russia drafted the Un resolution it would be silly of them to be caught out what they are condemning.

My ""sanctions on the USA are to make the population suffer hardship. That is how sanctions work

what is Russia doing that gets your back up.?"

Why did they draft it? Why did the USA not sign? Why didn't Ukraine?

What consequences will the USA suffer for this compared to Ukraine?

What is Russia doing that gets my back up? Other than internal corruption and persecution of minority groups?

How about taking military action in neighbouring countries with impunity as well as interfering in the democratic process in multiple countries and cyber espionage.

Are these things okay with you?

Again, I do not condone Western nations behaving badly, but that doesn't give other states a free pass either.

Perhaps any large country should be allowed to act as it wishes? Is that your view? China, the USA?

If not why should Russia get a free pass?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *asyukMan over a year ago

West London

"My question is, is it worth going to war especially as an American proxy army (nato) for the Ukraine? If Russia invaded it

I agree, but "military advisors" on the ground are a well trodden path to deterring an aggressor chancing their arm.

Of course, the risk is that the regular and irregular Russian forces have a history of I'll discipline. Remember the Malaysian Airlines jet?

I think if NATO put in miliary advisors it could provoke Russia. Maybe UN ones instead though still a risk. Do you think the UK should get involved directly (troops fighting) if Russia does invade?

So we should not 'provoke' Russia? We should allow Putin to do as he wishes?

What are the consequences of that?

This is brinkmanship. It's very deliberate. Will Russia attack Ukraine if there are NATO troops there?

This is old-fashioned realpolitik.

Then Russia gets what it wants. It will already have calculated any non-military consequences.

What is now clear is that there is no military consequences to any action that it takes.

Why should this reduce tension. Why not just ask for more concessions or take more by force?

Why do we have to go for all out war?

Why not place troops in Ukraine?

At its basics, how do you stop a bully from continuing to bully?

Do you think that Russia has not factored in the economic consequences of sanctions?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *uddy laneMan over a year ago

dudley

jens stoltenberg head of nato will not be around when it kicks off he will be rewarded with a new job from the pay masters as governor of norges bank. All in a days work for some people.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *asyukMan over a year ago

West London

"jens stoltenberg head of nato will not be around when it kicks off he will be rewarded with a new job from the pay masters as governor of norges bank. All in a days work for some people."

So?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *uddy laneMan over a year ago

dudley

"jens stoltenberg head of nato will not be around when it kicks off he will be rewarded with a new job from the pay masters as governor of norges bank. All in a days work for some people.

So?"

A comedian is going to be the next head of nato.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *asyukMan over a year ago

West London

"jens stoltenberg head of nato will not be around when it kicks off he will be rewarded with a new job from the pay masters as governor of norges bank. All in a days work for some people.

So?

A comedian is going to be the next head of nato."

I still do not understand the relevance to this thread. Easy enough to

You also skipped what I asked previously.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *uddy laneMan over a year ago

dudley

"jens stoltenberg head of nato will not be around when it kicks off he will be rewarded with a new job from the pay masters as governor of norges bank. All in a days work for some people.

So?

A comedian is going to be the next head of nato.

I still do not understand the relevance to this thread. Easy enough to

You also skipped what I asked previously."

the So with a question mark,, well I have come across that response before

This is how it goes... brush your teeth.... NO ... your teeth will fall out ... SO ... and the final response i gave was... you will never get a girlfriend.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *oxychick35Couple over a year ago

thornaby

"Even our secretary of defence says we/NATO won't put troops in so why wouldn't Putin take what he wants? Looks more and more like 1930s German expansion every day.

I have no idea how determined NATO is this time around.

Our Defence Secretary is an idiot for saying what he said. Genuinely stupid, but we have the government that we have so it is hardly surprising.

I guess we see.

You know this.

What do you think that the UK should do?

"Strong" or "weak"?

Look after ourselves or look globally?

Hmmm?I think we should keep out of it

So Russia should be allowed to do whatever it wants?

China too?

Anybody in fact. We just mind our own business. Always?"
yes we do we are not the worlds police do you think we did a job in the Middle East

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *mateur100 OP Man over a year ago

nr faversham

"Even our secretary of defence says we/NATO won't put troops in so why wouldn't Putin take what he wants? Looks more and more like 1930s German expansion every day.

I have no idea how determined NATO is this time around.

Our Defence Secretary is an idiot for saying what he said. Genuinely stupid, but we have the government that we have so it is hardly surprising.

I guess we see.

You know this.

What do you think that the UK should do?

"Strong" or "weak"?

Look after ourselves or look globally?

Hmmm?I think we should keep out of it

So Russia should be allowed to do whatever it wants?

China too?

Anybody in fact. We just mind our own business. Always? yes we do we are not the worlds police do you think we did a job in the Middle East "

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ebbie69Couple over a year ago

milton keynes

"My question is, is it worth going to war especially as an American proxy army (nato) for the Ukraine? If Russia invaded it

I agree, but "military advisors" on the ground are a well trodden path to deterring an aggressor chancing their arm.

Of course, the risk is that the regular and irregular Russian forces have a history of I'll discipline. Remember the Malaysian Airlines jet?

I think if NATO put in miliary advisors it could provoke Russia. Maybe UN ones instead though still a risk. Do you think the UK should get involved directly (troops fighting) if Russia does invade?

So we should not 'provoke' Russia? We should allow Putin to do as he wishes?

What are the consequences of that?

This is brinkmanship. It's very deliberate. Will Russia attack Ukraine if there are NATO troops there?

This is old-fashioned realpolitik.

Then Russia gets what it wants. It will already have calculated any non-military consequences.

What is now clear is that there is no military consequences to any action that it takes.

Why should this reduce tension. Why not just ask for more concessions or take more by force?

Why do we have to go for all out war?

Why not place troops in Ukraine?

At its basics, how do you stop a bully from continuing to bully?

Do you think that Russia has not factored in the economic consequences of sanctions?"

I fear war would be the outcome of NATO troops going into a non NATO country and who knows where that ends. I also fear it's what the Russians would use to justify any action. I expect they have looked at financial consequences and maybe it's why they have not invaded yet. Maybe that's not the reason, we just don't know. Again do you think the UK should get involved militarily

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *mateur100 OP Man over a year ago

nr faversham

"My question is, is it worth going to war especially as an American proxy army (nato) for the Ukraine? If Russia invaded it

I agree, but "military advisors" on the ground are a well trodden path to deterring an aggressor chancing their arm.

Of course, the risk is that the regular and irregular Russian forces have a history of I'll discipline. Remember the Malaysian Airlines jet?

I think if NATO put in miliary advisors it could provoke Russia. Maybe UN ones instead though still a risk. Do you think the UK should get involved directly (troops fighting) if Russia does invade?

So we should not 'provoke' Russia? We should allow Putin to do as he wishes?

What are the consequences of that?

This is brinkmanship. It's very deliberate. Will Russia attack Ukraine if there are NATO troops there?

This is old-fashioned realpolitik.

Then Russia gets what it wants. It will already have calculated any non-military consequences.

What is now clear is that there is no military consequences to any action that it takes.

Why should this reduce tension. Why not just ask for more concessions or take more by force?

Why do we have to go for all out war?

Why not place troops in Ukraine?

At its basics, how do you stop a bully from continuing to bully?

Do you think that Russia has not factored in the economic consequences of sanctions?

Burden has stated that there will be no US troops deployed. That being the case, any NATO troops would be insignificant. An unfortunate fact.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *asyukMan over a year ago

West London

"My question is, is it worth going to war especially as an American proxy army (nato) for the Ukraine? If Russia invaded it

I agree, but "military advisors" on the ground are a well trodden path to deterring an aggressor chancing their arm.

Of course, the risk is that the regular and irregular Russian forces have a history of I'll discipline. Remember the Malaysian Airlines jet?

I think if NATO put in miliary advisors it could provoke Russia. Maybe UN ones instead though still a risk. Do you think the UK should get involved directly (troops fighting) if Russia does invade?

So we should not 'provoke' Russia? We should allow Putin to do as he wishes?

What are the consequences of that?

This is brinkmanship. It's very deliberate. Will Russia attack Ukraine if there are NATO troops there?

This is old-fashioned realpolitik.

Then Russia gets what it wants. It will already have calculated any non-military consequences.

What is now clear is that there is no military consequences to any action that it takes.

Why should this reduce tension. Why not just ask for more concessions or take more by force?

Why do we have to go for all out war?

Why not place troops in Ukraine?

At its basics, how do you stop a bully from continuing to bully?

Do you think that Russia has not factored in the economic consequences of sanctions?

There will be a war if NATO troops don't go in. Possibly lots more as our bluff will have been called and Putin knows that we will run.

How are NATO troops in Ukraine a justification? Ukraine can invite anyone they want to observe what they are doing.

The UN would be better but Russia has a veto. Conveniently.

Where does that leave us?

I said, at the start that NATO should have a small number of advisors there.

They will be in harm's way. That's the sad reality. If they come under fire then perhaps it does all ho very wrong.

I've answered your question. How do you deal with a bully? Do you let them carry on?

Russia has already had sanctions placed on it after Crimea. Do they look scared so far?

8% inflation in Russia and their central bank put up the interest rates to something around 8% too.

Distraction for domestic consumption and a big power play win too if it comes off.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *asyukMan over a year ago

West London

"Even our secretary of defence says we/NATO won't put troops in so why wouldn't Putin take what he wants? Looks more and more like 1930s German expansion every day.

I have no idea how determined NATO is this time around.

Our Defence Secretary is an idiot for saying what he said. Genuinely stupid, but we have the government that we have so it is hardly surprising.

I guess we see.

You know this.

What do you think that the UK should do?

"Strong" or "weak"?

Look after ourselves or look globally?

Hmmm?I think we should keep out of it

So Russia should be allowed to do whatever it wants?

China too?

Anybody in fact. We just mind our own business. Always? yes we do we are not the worlds police do you think we did a job in the Middle East "

No, we did a terrible job and I explained why.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *asyukMan over a year ago

West London

"jens stoltenberg head of nato will not be around when it kicks off he will be rewarded with a new job from the pay masters as governor of norges bank. All in a days work for some people.

So?

A comedian is going to be the next head of nato.

I still do not understand the relevance to this thread. Easy enough to

You also skipped what I asked previously.

the So with a question mark,, well I have come across that response before

This is how it goes... brush your teeth.... NO ... your teeth will fall out ... SO ... and the final response i gave was... you will never get a girlfriend.

Good use of emojis and picking a little off topic "fight" about nothing relevant so as not to answer the slightly more substantive questions.

Good job.

Here are some more emojis for you:

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Yljust checked, yanukovych was democratically elected.

If he was pro western, would his overthrow be still welcomed?

But more importantly, are we entitled to meddle in other country's internal affairs?

He was pro-Western. I stepped through what happened. He was pressurised by Russia to not be.

I stepped through what happened.

Do you disagree with those events or is there some "special" information that is not widely available that you have access to?

I wouldn't roll over for Russia or China anymore than I would for BoJo.

Bad is bad. Stand up for your principles. Don't let the bully win.

Which ones are you defending here?"

Thin end of the personal insults starting eh?

Nato should be disbanded. It's an outdated organisation run by an autocratic group of people justifying their existence. Nato is a group of americas proxy army. Look how America bullied other countries to cough up on membership fees.

But, who are the bullies here?

The American led wars have left countless hundreds of thousands dead

We have refugees/migrants flowing a cross Europe because of American wars in their hundreds of thousands,

We have Afghans who the Americans shit on and left to starve to death after being abandoned, yet Russia are the bad guys.

Getting back to the 2013 overthrow :

Yanukovych rejected a deal for greater integration with the EU, Bear in mind that the was an elected government and should've been elected out of office at the next election if the Ukraine public weren't happy, not by mob rule, and certainly not encouraged by the US and Europe and British MPs openly supporting the protesters, like that little squirt of a tory who's name escapes me.

Imagine Russia supporting a riot in the UK to oust boris!

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

If the Ukrainian people wanted to riot against their govt. That's their business, not ours.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

William Hauge! The tory mp bag of shite, greasy little alien creature from outer space.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *uddy laneMan over a year ago

dudley

"Yljust checked, yanukovych was democratically elected.

If he was pro western, would his overthrow be still welcomed?

But more importantly, are we entitled to meddle in other country's internal affairs?

He was pro-Western. I stepped through what happened. He was pressurised by Russia to not be.

I stepped through what happened.

Do you disagree with those events or is there some "special" information that is not widely available that you have access to?

I wouldn't roll over for Russia or China anymore than I would for BoJo.

Bad is bad. Stand up for your principles. Don't let the bully win.

Which ones are you defending here?

Thin end of the personal insults starting eh?

But, who are the bullies here?

The American led wars have left countless hundreds of thousands dead

We have refugees/migrants flowing a cross Europe because of American wars in their hundreds of thousands,

We have Afghans who the Americans shit on and left to starve to death after being abandoned, yet Russia are the bad guys.

Getting back to the 2013 overthrow :

Imagine Russia supporting a riot in the UK to oust boris!

Exactly j mc cain visited Ukraine and he was the instigator of it all,

USA interference plain to see.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *uddy laneMan over a year ago

dudley

"jens stoltenberg head of nato will not be around when it kicks off he will be rewarded with a new job from the pay masters as governor of norges bank. All in a days work for some people.

So?

A comedian is going to be the next head of nato.

I still do not understand the relevance to this thread. Easy enough to

You also skipped what I asked previously.

the So with a question mark,, well I have come across that response before

This is how it goes... brush your teeth.... NO ... your teeth will fall out ... SO ... and the final response i gave was... you will never get a girlfriend.

Good use of emojis and picking a little off topic "fight" about nothing relevant so as not to answer the slightly more substantive questions.

Good job.

Here are some more emojis for you:

Emoji not emojis, one not two or three or four or five. Petulance is what I see.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *asyukMan over a year ago

West London

"Yljust checked, yanukovych was democratically elected.

If he was pro western, would his overthrow be still welcomed?

But more importantly, are we entitled to meddle in other country's internal affairs?

He was pro-Western. I stepped through what happened. He was pressurised by Russia to not be.

I stepped through what happened.

Do you disagree with those events or is there some "special" information that is not widely available that you have access to?

I wouldn't roll over for Russia or China anymore than I would for BoJo.

Bad is bad. Stand up for your principles. Don't let the bully win.

Which ones are you defending here?

Thin end of the personal insults starting eh?

But, who are the bullies here?

The American led wars have left countless hundreds of thousands dead

We have refugees/migrants flowing a cross Europe because of American wars in their hundreds of thousands,

We have Afghans who the Americans shit on and left to starve to death after being abandoned, yet Russia are the bad guys.

Getting back to the 2013 overthrow :

Imagine Russia supporting a riot in the UK to oust boris!

Nobody has been insulted. Feel free to point one out though. I can't help that though as they are simply open questions. If you are going to be so sensitive, perhaps this isn't the place for you. When they are not answered, then the conclusion is that there isn't one.

How is a multinational group "autocratic". What are they imposing?

Your position is that multiple small nations with small armed forces would be better placed to deal with Russia militarily than a coherent structure which is capable of functioning as a single unit?

It's outmoded because there is no threat from Russia anymore, or defending yourself militarily is outmoded?

What is your view of what we do militarily in the future?

I have not once said that the Americans have a great record have I? Can you answer that question directly?

However, they are a global military power and most of the time they are our allies. You view that as a bad thing?

We also abandoned, and are dragging our feet, on taking Afghan support staff too. So we are also bad guys.

Does us or the US doing the wrong thing make it alright for Russia or anyone else? Not is it hypocritical, is it alright for larger nations to treat smaller ones as they wish?

Yanukovych negotiated and wanted the deal with the EU. Russia "persuaded" him not to against the wish of his population and instead have closer ties with Russia.

What were those protests about? Do you remember? Were human rights abuses and corruption also part of the mix?

You didn't listen to other country's politicians when it came to voting for Brexit. Why do you think that the Ukrainians were so feeble minded that they were influenced by politicians who you cannot remember the name of?

Has the current Ukrainian government been democratically elected? Is the one whose population turned on him and fled the country more legitimate than the current one?

The UK Intelligence and Security Committee says that Russia has interfered substantially with our election process and economy and both major referenda. I'm not happy about that. Are you?

What do you want for the UK? To do nothing anywhere in the World because "it's none of our business"? Do we trade with anyone then, regardless of how they treat their own people? No aid either. Just look after ourselves?

We just deal with the consequences, such as refugees, as we don't want to engage with trying to prevent the problems?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *asyukMan over a year ago

West London

"jens stoltenberg head of nato will not be around when it kicks off he will be rewarded with a new job from the pay masters as governor of norges bank. All in a days work for some people.

So?

A comedian is going to be the next head of nato.

I still do not understand the relevance to this thread. Easy enough to

You also skipped what I asked previously.

the So with a question mark,, well I have come across that response before

This is how it goes... brush your teeth.... NO ... your teeth will fall out ... SO ... and the final response i gave was... you will never get a girlfriend.

Good use of emojis and picking a little off topic "fight" about nothing relevant so as not to answer the slightly more substantive questions.

Good job.

Here are some more emojis for you:

Emoji not emojis, one not two or three or four or five. Petulance is what I see."

You are avoiding answering the direct questions, as predicted.

I'll leave you to continue trying to distract as you wish.

Still mystified why you like Putin so much, but that's up to you.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *uddy laneMan over a year ago

dudley

"jens stoltenberg head of nato will not be around when it kicks off he will be rewarded with a new job from the pay masters as governor of norges bank. All in a days work for some people.

So?

A comedian is going to be the next head of nato.

I still do not understand the relevance to this thread. Easy enough to

You also skipped what I asked previously.

the So with a question mark,, well I have come across that response before

This is how it goes... brush your teeth.... NO ... your teeth will fall out ... SO ... and the final response i gave was... you will never get a girlfriend.

Good use of emojis and picking a little off topic "fight" about nothing relevant so as not to answer the slightly more substantive questions.

Good job.

Here are some more emojis for you:

Emoji not emojis, one not two or three or four or five. Petulance is what I see.

You are avoiding answering the direct questions, as predicted.

I'll leave you to continue trying to distract as you wish.

Still mystified why you like Putin so much, but that's up to you."

I have no liking or hatred against putin never met the man.

I am not conditioned to react when triggered by scripts or characters with emotions of fear and hatred.

Why do you not like him?