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Fit for purpose?
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By *ackal1 OP Couple
over a year ago
Manchester |
Before we start the usual banter I admit I’m anti Boris but please don’t think that’s why I’m posting this. It’s also not about Brexit. The wasted oil windfall prompted me.
Over a lot of years I’ve constantly heard leader after leader say we will do this or that to make everyone better off, safer, healthier etc etc.
What I’ve seen in reality is the increasing money lining of MPs and officials pockets , money wasted on over manned government, money wasted on over priced government supplies. No not just PPE but MOD NHS etc. The wife of David Cameron’s family allegedly make millions on the back of him increasing grants for wind turbines which suddenly appeared in great numbers on his in laws land not long after he made those changes. Blair make millions on tours after dinner speaking knowing he’s wasted our money and contributed to the killing of thousands of innocent people. Why isn’t he held to account for the lies? Bankers allowed big bonuses while we were still paying off their debts. Over 900 appointed lords. Do we really need that many in a second chamber and shouldn’t they be independent or elected?
Do you actually feel richer or safer or healthier over the last 30 years given our economy has nearly doubled in size.
My question is, does the way we chose our leaders and how we run our government actually work for us in today’s world? Are we in danger of walking into a dictatorial leadership or just in danger of failing as a state? We have brains and millions of hard workers, but do we actually have a capable system which chooses the best people fit to lead us?
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"Before we start the usual banter I admit I’m anti Boris but please don’t think that’s why I’m posting this. It’s also not about Brexit. The wasted oil windfall prompted me.
Over a lot of years I’ve constantly heard leader after leader say we will do this or that to make everyone better off, safer, healthier etc etc.
What I’ve seen in reality is the increasing money lining of MPs and officials pockets , money wasted on over manned government, money wasted on over priced government supplies. No not just PPE but MOD NHS etc. The wife of David Cameron’s family allegedly make millions on the back of him increasing grants for wind turbines which suddenly appeared in great numbers on his in laws land not long after he made those changes. Blair make millions on tours after dinner speaking knowing he’s wasted our money and contributed to the killing of thousands of innocent people. Why isn’t he held to account for the lies? Bankers allowed big bonuses while we were still paying off their debts. Over 900 appointed lords. Do we really need that many in a second chamber and shouldn’t they be independent or elected?
Do you actually feel richer or safer or healthier over the last 30 years given our economy has nearly doubled in size.
My question is, does the way we chose our leaders and how we run our government actually work for us in today’s world? Are we in danger of walking into a dictatorial leadership or just in danger of failing as a state? We have brains and millions of hard workers, but do we actually have a capable system which chooses the best people fit to lead us?
"
The whole system is set up to support itself. It's gradually, and incrementally removing power and influence from ordinary people. The UK is slowly moving towards the US model where the government purely serves the corporations that sponsor both of their two parties. |
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By *ackal1 OP Couple
over a year ago
Manchester |
"Before we start the usual banter I admit I’m anti Boris but please don’t think that’s why I’m posting this. It’s also not about Brexit. The wasted oil windfall prompted me.
Over a lot of years I’ve constantly heard leader after leader say we will do this or that to make everyone better off, safer, healthier etc etc.
What I’ve seen in reality is the increasing money lining of MPs and officials pockets , money wasted on over manned government, money wasted on over priced government supplies. No not just PPE but MOD NHS etc. The wife of David Cameron’s family allegedly make millions on the back of him increasing grants for wind turbines which suddenly appeared in great numbers on his in laws land not long after he made those changes. Blair make millions on tours after dinner speaking knowing he’s wasted our money and contributed to the killing of thousands of innocent people. Why isn’t he held to account for the lies? Bankers allowed big bonuses while we were still paying off their debts. Over 900 appointed lords. Do we really need that many in a second chamber and shouldn’t they be independent or elected?
Do you actually feel richer or safer or healthier over the last 30 years given our economy has nearly doubled in size.
My question is, does the way we chose our leaders and how we run our government actually work for us in today’s world? Are we in danger of walking into a dictatorial leadership or just in danger of failing as a state? We have brains and millions of hard workers, but do we actually have a capable system which chooses the best people fit to lead us?
The whole system is set up to support itself. It's gradually, and incrementally removing power and influence from ordinary people. The UK is slowly moving towards the US model where the government purely serves the corporations that sponsor both of their two parties. "
Looking at the mess the US is becoming with their massive debt then are you saying it’s too late for us and that’s our future? Are we voters only interested in image? |
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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago
North West |
"Before we start the usual banter I admit I’m anti Boris but please don’t think that’s why I’m posting this. It’s also not about Brexit. The wasted oil windfall prompted me.
Over a lot of years I’ve constantly heard leader after leader say we will do this or that to make everyone better off, safer, healthier etc etc.
What I’ve seen in reality is the increasing money lining of MPs and officials pockets , money wasted on over manned government, money wasted on over priced government supplies. No not just PPE but MOD NHS etc. The wife of David Cameron’s family allegedly make millions on the back of him increasing grants for wind turbines which suddenly appeared in great numbers on his in laws land not long after he made those changes. Blair make millions on tours after dinner speaking knowing he’s wasted our money and contributed to the killing of thousands of innocent people. Why isn’t he held to account for the lies? Bankers allowed big bonuses while we were still paying off their debts. Over 900 appointed lords. Do we really need that many in a second chamber and shouldn’t they be independent or elected?
Do you actually feel richer or safer or healthier over the last 30 years given our economy has nearly doubled in size.
My question is, does the way we chose our leaders and how we run our government actually work for us in today’s world? Are we in danger of walking into a dictatorial leadership or just in danger of failing as a state? We have brains and millions of hard workers, but do we actually have a capable system which chooses the best people fit to lead us?
The whole system is set up to support itself. It's gradually, and incrementally removing power and influence from ordinary people. The UK is slowly moving towards the US model where the government purely serves the corporations that sponsor both of their two parties.
Looking at the mess the US is becoming with their massive debt then are you saying it’s too late for us and that’s our future? Are we voters only interested in image? "
“Image blindness” is exactly the problem that many Brits seem to be afflicted by.
Angela Merkel is probably the most successful post WW2 Leader of any European country. No German ever voted for Merkel because of her image, they voted for her because she was sincere, credible and got on with the job.
We would do a lot better as a nation if we tried to see past the first dimensional image that someone portrays. |
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"Before we start the usual banter I admit I’m anti Boris but please don’t think that’s why I’m posting this. It’s also not about Brexit. The wasted oil windfall prompted me.
Over a lot of years I’ve constantly heard leader after leader say we will do this or that to make everyone better off, safer, healthier etc etc.
What I’ve seen in reality is the increasing money lining of MPs and officials pockets , money wasted on over manned government, money wasted on over priced government supplies. No not just PPE but MOD NHS etc. The wife of David Cameron’s family allegedly make millions on the back of him increasing grants for wind turbines which suddenly appeared in great numbers on his in laws land not long after he made those changes. Blair make millions on tours after dinner speaking knowing he’s wasted our money and contributed to the killing of thousands of innocent people. Why isn’t he held to account for the lies? Bankers allowed big bonuses while we were still paying off their debts. Over 900 appointed lords. Do we really need that many in a second chamber and shouldn’t they be independent or elected?
Do you actually feel richer or safer or healthier over the last 30 years given our economy has nearly doubled in size.
My question is, does the way we chose our leaders and how we run our government actually work for us in today’s world? Are we in danger of walking into a dictatorial leadership or just in danger of failing as a state? We have brains and millions of hard workers, but do we actually have a capable system which chooses the best people fit to lead us?
The whole system is set up to support itself. It's gradually, and incrementally removing power and influence from ordinary people. The UK is slowly moving towards the US model where the government purely serves the corporations that sponsor both of their two parties.
Looking at the mess the US is becoming with their massive debt then are you saying it’s too late for us and that’s our future? Are we voters only interested in image? "
I don't know if it's too late. But the signs aren't positive. Personally, I'm always hopeful and optimistic of things improving. I vote for neither of the main parties, and I attempt to make my voice heard by interacting with my local MP and putting pressure on the government via any means we have available.
I can't speculate why other people vote. But image seems like a thing. For example, people think of Labour as the party that borrows. Even though this current government have borrowed more than all previous governments combined. And that was prior to brexit and the pandemic. |
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By *ackal1 OP Couple
over a year ago
Manchester |
"Before we start the usual banter I admit I’m anti Boris but please don’t think that’s why I’m posting this. It’s also not about Brexit. The wasted oil windfall prompted me.
The whole system is set up to support itself. It's gradually, and incrementally removing power and influence from ordinary people. The UK is slowly moving towards the US model where the government purely serves the corporations that sponsor both of their two parties.
Looking at the mess the US is becoming with their massive debt then are you saying it’s too late for us and that’s our future? Are we voters only interested in image?
“Image blindness” is exactly the problem that many Brits seem to be afflicted by.
Angela Merkel is probably the most successful post WW2 Leader of any European country. No German ever voted for Merkel because of her image, they voted for her because she was sincere, credible and got on with the job.
We would do a lot better as a nation if we tried to see past the first dimensional image that someone portrays."
I have to be agree re Merkel as she was respected by all sides in Germany even if they didn’t agree with her politics. Interesting how she hasn’t it seems become enriched by her position and still lives in the same apartment she started on. I’m sure she can definitely earn a more comfortable retirement if she wishes.
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"Before we start the usual banter I admit I’m anti Boris but please don’t think that’s why I’m posting this. It’s also not about Brexit. The wasted oil windfall prompted me.
Over a lot of years I’ve constantly heard leader after leader say we will do this or that to make everyone better off, safer, healthier etc etc.
What I’ve seen in reality is the increasing money lining of MPs and officials pockets , money wasted on over manned government, money wasted on over priced government supplies. No not just PPE but MOD NHS etc. The wife of David Cameron’s family allegedly make millions on the back of him increasing grants for wind turbines which suddenly appeared in great numbers on his in laws land not long after he made those changes. Blair make millions on tours after dinner speaking knowing he’s wasted our money and contributed to the killing of thousands of innocent people. Why isn’t he held to account for the lies? Bankers allowed big bonuses while we were still paying off their debts. Over 900 appointed lords. Do we really need that many in a second chamber and shouldn’t they be independent or elected?
Do you actually feel richer or safer or healthier over the last 30 years given our economy has nearly doubled in size.
My question is, does the way we chose our leaders and how we run our government actually work for us in today’s world? Are we in danger of walking into a dictatorial leadership or just in danger of failing as a state? We have brains and millions of hard workers, but do we actually have a capable system which chooses the best people fit to lead us?
"
Personally im happy with the way we vote and accept whomever gets in however i do think the HOL is a total waste of money and jobs for the boys (look at how john bercow cried because he thought he was entitled).I wouldnt want it abolished as its part of uk history but the numbers should be cut to say around 50.PR sounds good in theory but you only had to see what happened when the house was split over brexit fuck all got done for a couple of years and it was clear to see the hate between the two sides in the commons.
There is nothing to stop any of us standing for parliament so the system is there for everyone i cant see how you can make that any better,if you have the right policies that your local people you get to be an mp.
As for a dictatorship no there is no chance of that in the uk and no as a failing state because as you said we have brains and millions of hard working people.
Just out of interest you dont seem happy with the current system what would you like to see? |
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By *ackal1 OP Couple
over a year ago
Manchester |
"Before we start the usual banter I admit I’m anti Boris but please don’t think that’s why I’m posting this. It’s also not about Brexit. The wasted oil windfall prompted me.
My question is, does the way we chose our leaders and how we run our government actually work for us in today’s world? Are we in danger of walking into a dictatorial leadership or just in danger of failing as a state? We have brains and millions of hard workers, but do we actually have a capable system which chooses the best people fit to lead us?
The whole system is set up to support itself. It's gradually, and incrementally removing power and influence from ordinary people. The UK is slowly moving towards the US model where the government purely serves the corporations that sponsor both of their two parties.
Looking at the mess the US is becoming with their massive debt then are you saying it’s too late for us and that’s our future? Are we voters only interested in image?
I don't know if it's too late. But the signs aren't positive. Personally, I'm always hopeful and optimistic of things improving. I vote for neither of the main parties, and I attempt to make my voice heard by interacting with my local MP and putting pressure on the government via any means we have available.
I can't speculate why other people vote. But image seems like a thing. For example, people think of Labour as the party that borrows. Even though this current government have borrowed more than all previous governments combined. And that was prior to brexit and the pandemic. "
Is that our Media and its manipulation or is it because we are lazy voters and rather than read up on the reality we prefer to be hand fed our political views? Do we actually care that democracy is slipping away as long as I feel comfortable and can pay my bills?
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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For me, the FPTP and effectively 2 party system creates a bunch of issues.
Many ppl have little choice in having their voice heard. If it's not in line with the big 2 it's lost.
As such the election is decided by a few marginal voters in a few marginal constituencies.
And once on a government has 5 years of low accountability. Really it's only the HoL that can cause real challenge.
I wonder if the Merkel is seen as good leader because of who she is, or because of who she is in the system they have. |
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By *ackal1 OP Couple
over a year ago
Manchester |
"Before we start the usual banter I admit I’m anti Boris but please don’t think that’s why I’m posting this. It’s also not about Brexit. The wasted oil windfall prompted me.
My question is, does the way we chose our leaders and how we run our government actually work for us in today’s world? Are we in danger of walking into a dictatorial leadership or just in danger of failing as a state? We have brains and millions of hard workers, but do we actually have a capable system which chooses the best people fit to lead us?
Personally im happy with the way we vote and accept whomever gets in however i do think the HOL is a total waste of money and jobs for the boys (look at how john bercow cried because he thought he was entitled).I wouldnt want it abolished as its part of uk history but the numbers should be cut to say around 50.PR sounds good in theory but you only had to see what happened when the house was split over brexit fuck all got done for a couple of years and it was clear to see the hate between the two sides in the commons.
There is nothing to stop any of us standing for parliament so the system is there for everyone i cant see how you can make that any better,if you have the right policies that your local people you get to be an mp.
As for a dictatorship no there is no chance of that in the uk and no as a failing state because as you said we have brains and millions of hard working people.
Just out of interest you dont seem happy with the current system what would you like to see?"
I agree regarding the lords . My thoughts are around two hundred would be about right but maybe and I’ve no idea how this would happen but they are all independents not appointees . They are there to stop and check bad legislation not overrule MPs so I can’t see why not. Stop the gravy train too.
Regarding anyone can be an MP I don’t agree. The fact that over 50% of MPs are now parachuted in by central party offices on both sides of the house shows you who chooses your MP and it’s definitely not you. In reality that’s two offices in central London choosing 300 of our MPs . Is that democracy at work? Not a chance.
I’d also scrap the whip system so MPs vote with their conscience and their constituency foremost in their minds not their political career.
I could go on and on but I also think Party’s and MPs should have very limited funding for elections paid for by the state .
Absolutely no income for them or their party or local offices etc while they are and MP. Pay them a lot more as the wages are pretty crap. But no other income or side companies to divert to. No family jobs. I’d adopt the expenses report of 2009 in full which would piss off a lot of the gravel train lovers.
Also when they lose their seat we keep paying them for four years but they can’t take any other roles which would stop pocket lining and jobs waiting in the wings for influence . I would apply this across all parties and stop the unions from donating too. All party funds from the state are based on your number of votes .
Lastly I’d have PR to truly reflect the votes made. First past the post means a minority voted party can dictate to all of the population again that’s not democracy as it handcuffs two thirds of the population. I agree with you it can cause delays but it also gives everyone a voice and everyone is considered in any policy. I was against this years ago I admit as I thought it caused a mess but I can see the benefits now and they outweigh the negatives.
There lots of good stuff like the cross party committees holding others to account a little. But they are drowned out by the negatives. .
There’s loads to discuss and I don’t have the skill to draw up this stuff but we do have the talent in this country it’s just do we have the will to have true democracy.
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By *ackal1 OP Couple
over a year ago
Manchester |
Just to correct a little when I say no income . A constituency office covered on central costs. Maybe whoever is MP gets the office and it’s handed over when the next MP comes along. It happens in Downing Street! |
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"Before we start the usual banter I admit I’m anti Boris but please don’t think that’s why I’m posting this. It’s also not about Brexit. The wasted oil windfall prompted me.
My question is, does the way we chose our leaders and how we run our government actually work for us in today’s world? Are we in danger of walking into a dictatorial leadership or just in danger of failing as a state? We have brains and millions of hard workers, but do we actually have a capable system which chooses the best people fit to lead us?
Personally im happy with the way we vote and accept whomever gets in however i do think the HOL is a total waste of money and jobs for the boys (look at how john bercow cried because he thought he was entitled).I wouldnt want it abolished as its part of uk history but the numbers should be cut to say around 50.PR sounds good in theory but you only had to see what happened when the house was split over brexit fuck all got done for a couple of years and it was clear to see the hate between the two sides in the commons.
There is nothing to stop any of us standing for parliament so the system is there for everyone i cant see how you can make that any better,if you have the right policies that your local people you get to be an mp.
As for a dictatorship no there is no chance of that in the uk and no as a failing state because as you said we have brains and millions of hard working people.
Just out of interest you dont seem happy with the current system what would you like to see?
I agree regarding the lords . My thoughts are around two hundred would be about right but maybe and I’ve no idea how this would happen but they are all independents not appointees . They are there to stop and check bad legislation not overrule MPs so I can’t see why not. Stop the gravy train too.
Regarding anyone can be an MP I don’t agree. The fact that over 50% of MPs are now parachuted in by central party offices on both sides of the house shows you who chooses your MP and it’s definitely not you. In reality that’s two offices in central London choosing 300 of our MPs . Is that democracy at work? Not a chance.
I’d also scrap the whip system so MPs vote with their conscience and their constituency foremost in their minds not their political career.
I could go on and on but I also think Party’s and MPs should have very limited funding for elections paid for by the state .
Absolutely no income for them or their party or local offices etc while they are and MP. Pay them a lot more as the wages are pretty crap. But no other income or side companies to divert to. No family jobs. I’d adopt the expenses report of 2009 in full which would piss off a lot of the gravel train lovers.
Also when they lose their seat we keep paying them for four years but they can’t take any other roles which would stop pocket lining and jobs waiting in the wings for influence . I would apply this across all parties and stop the unions from donating too. All party funds from the state are based on your number of votes .
Lastly I’d have PR to truly reflect the votes made. First past the post means a minority voted party can dictate to all of the population again that’s not democracy as it handcuffs two thirds of the population. I agree with you it can cause delays but it also gives everyone a voice and everyone is considered in any policy. I was against this years ago I admit as I thought it caused a mess but I can see the benefits now and they outweigh the negatives.
There lots of good stuff like the cross party committees holding others to account a little. But they are drowned out by the negatives. .
There’s loads to discuss and I don’t have the skill to draw up this stuff but we do have the talent in this country it’s just do we have the will to have true democracy.
"
Yes i think you are right about cross party committee's and there is a lot of it that goes on, there is not a great divide between the partys on most things but an opposition is there to oppose and that is what we all see on the tv not the good stuff they do between them.
I also agree the whip is not the way to go and everyone elected should vote for what is good for the people in their constituency.
As i said there is nothing stopping you standing as an mp if the party you support dont think you are good enough there is nothing to stop you standing as an independent.Everyone has the opportunity not everyone wants to take it. |
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By *ackal1 OP Couple
over a year ago
Manchester |
"Before we start the usual banter I admit I’m anti Boris but please don’t think that’s why I’m posting this. It’s also not about Brexit. The wasted oil windfall prompted me.
My question is, does the way we chose our leaders and how we run our government actually work for us in today’s world? Are we in danger of walking into a dictatorial leadership or just in danger of failing as a state? We have brains and millions of hard workers, but do we actually have a capable system which chooses the best people fit to lead us?
Personally im happy with the way we vote and accept whomever gets in however i do think the HOL is a total waste of money and jobs for the boys (look at how john bercow cried because he thought he was entitled).I wouldnt want it abolished as its part of uk history but the numbers should be cut to say around 50.PR sounds good in theory but you only had to see what happened when the house was split over brexit fuck all got done for a couple of years and it was clear to see the hate between the two sides in the commons.
There is nothing to stop any of us standing for parliament so the system is there for everyone i cant see how you can make that any better,if you have the right policies that your local people you get to be an mp.
As for a dictatorship no there is no chance of that in the uk and no as a failing state because as you said we have brains and millions of hard working people.
Just out of interest you dont seem happy with the current system what would you like to see?
I agree regarding the lords . My thoughts are around two hundred would be about right but maybe and I’ve no idea how this would happen but they are all independents not appointees . They are there to stop and check bad legislation not overrule MPs so I can’t see why not. Stop the gravy train too.
Regarding anyone can be an MP I don’t agree. The fact that over 50% of MPs are now parachuted in by central party offices on both sides of the house shows you who chooses your MP and it’s definitely not you. In reality that’s two offices in central London choosing 300 of our MPs . Is that democracy at work? Not a chance.
I’d also scrap the whip system so MPs vote with their conscience and their constituency foremost in their minds not their political career.
I could go on and on but I also think Party’s and MPs should have very limited funding for elections paid for by the state .
Absolutely no income for them or their party or local offices etc while they are and MP. Pay them a lot more as the wages are pretty crap. But no other income or side companies to divert to. No family jobs. I’d adopt the expenses report of 2009 in full which would piss off a lot of the gravel train lovers.
Also when they lose their seat we keep paying them for four years but they can’t take any other roles which would stop pocket lining and jobs waiting in the wings for influence . I would apply this across all parties and stop the unions from donating too. All party funds from the state are based on your number of votes .
Lastly I’d have PR to truly reflect the votes made. First past the post means a minority voted party can dictate to all of the population again that’s not democracy as it handcuffs two thirds of the population. I agree with you it can cause delays but it also gives everyone a voice and everyone is considered in any policy. I was against this years ago I admit as I thought it caused a mess but I can see the benefits now and they outweigh the negatives.
There lots of good stuff like the cross party committees holding others to account a little. But they are drowned out by the negatives. .
There’s loads to discuss and I don’t have the skill to draw up this stuff but we do have the talent in this country it’s just do we have the will to have true democracy.
Yes i think you are right about cross party committee's and there is a lot of it that goes on, there is not a great divide between the partys on most things but an opposition is there to oppose and that is what we all see on the tv not the good stuff they do between them.
I also agree the whip is not the way to go and everyone elected should vote for what is good for the people in their constituency.
As i said there is nothing stopping you standing as an mp if the party you support dont think you are good enough there is nothing to stop you standing as an independent.Everyone has the opportunity not everyone wants to take it. "
Do you think a candidate should be a local for at least 5 years before he’s allowed to run? Only to stop the parachutes . |
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"Before we start the usual banter I admit I’m anti Boris but please don’t think that’s why I’m posting this. It’s also not about Brexit. The wasted oil windfall prompted me.
My question is, does the way we chose our leaders and how we run our government actually work for us in today’s world? Are we in danger of walking into a dictatorial leadership or just in danger of failing as a state? We have brains and millions of hard workers, but do we actually have a capable system which chooses the best people fit to lead us?
Personally im happy with the way we vote and accept whomever gets in however i do think the HOL is a total waste of money and jobs for the boys (look at how john bercow cried because he thought he was entitled).I wouldnt want it abolished as its part of uk history but the numbers should be cut to say around 50.PR sounds good in theory but you only had to see what happened when the house was split over brexit fuck all got done for a couple of years and it was clear to see the hate between the two sides in the commons.
There is nothing to stop any of us standing for parliament so the system is there for everyone i cant see how you can make that any better,if you have the right policies that your local people you get to be an mp.
As for a dictatorship no there is no chance of that in the uk and no as a failing state because as you said we have brains and millions of hard working people.
Just out of interest you dont seem happy with the current system what would you like to see?
I agree regarding the lords . My thoughts are around two hundred would be about right but maybe and I’ve no idea how this would happen but they are all independents not appointees . They are there to stop and check bad legislation not overrule MPs so I can’t see why not. Stop the gravy train too.
Regarding anyone can be an MP I don’t agree. The fact that over 50% of MPs are now parachuted in by central party offices on both sides of the house shows you who chooses your MP and it’s definitely not you. In reality that’s two offices in central London choosing 300 of our MPs . Is that democracy at work? Not a chance.
I’d also scrap the whip system so MPs vote with their conscience and their constituency foremost in their minds not their political career.
I could go on and on but I also think Party’s and MPs should have very limited funding for elections paid for by the state .
Absolutely no income for them or their party or local offices etc while they are and MP. Pay them a lot more as the wages are pretty crap. But no other income or side companies to divert to. No family jobs. I’d adopt the expenses report of 2009 in full which would piss off a lot of the gravel train lovers.
Also when they lose their seat we keep paying them for four years but they can’t take any other roles which would stop pocket lining and jobs waiting in the wings for influence . I would apply this across all parties and stop the unions from donating too. All party funds from the state are based on your number of votes .
Lastly I’d have PR to truly reflect the votes made. First past the post means a minority voted party can dictate to all of the population again that’s not democracy as it handcuffs two thirds of the population. I agree with you it can cause delays but it also gives everyone a voice and everyone is considered in any policy. I was against this years ago I admit as I thought it caused a mess but I can see the benefits now and they outweigh the negatives.
There lots of good stuff like the cross party committees holding others to account a little. But they are drowned out by the negatives. .
There’s loads to discuss and I don’t have the skill to draw up this stuff but we do have the talent in this country it’s just do we have the will to have true democracy.
Yes i think you are right about cross party committee's and there is a lot of it that goes on, there is not a great divide between the partys on most things but an opposition is there to oppose and that is what we all see on the tv not the good stuff they do between them.
I also agree the whip is not the way to go and everyone elected should vote for what is good for the people in their constituency.
As i said there is nothing stopping you standing as an mp if the party you support dont think you are good enough there is nothing to stop you standing as an independent.Everyone has the opportunity not everyone wants to take it.
Do you think a candidate should be a local for at least 5 years before he’s allowed to run? Only to stop the parachutes . "
yes i would go along with that for sure.  |
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"Before we start the usual banter I admit I’m anti Boris but please don’t think that’s why I’m posting this. It’s also not about Brexit. The wasted oil windfall prompted me.
My question is, does the way we chose our leaders and how we run our government actually work for us in today’s world? Are we in danger of walking into a dictatorial leadership or just in danger of failing as a state? We have brains and millions of hard workers, but do we actually have a capable system which chooses the best people fit to lead us?
Personally im happy with the way we vote and accept whomever gets in however i do think the HOL is a total waste of money and jobs for the boys (look at how john bercow cried because he thought he was entitled).I wouldnt want it abolished as its part of uk history but the numbers should be cut to say around 50.PR sounds good in theory but you only had to see what happened when the house was split over brexit fuck all got done for a couple of years and it was clear to see the hate between the two sides in the commons.
There is nothing to stop any of us standing for parliament so the system is there for everyone i cant see how you can make that any better,if you have the right policies that your local people you get to be an mp.
As for a dictatorship no there is no chance of that in the uk and no as a failing state because as you said we have brains and millions of hard working people.
Just out of interest you dont seem happy with the current system what would you like to see?
I agree regarding the lords . My thoughts are around two hundred would be about right but maybe and I’ve no idea how this would happen but they are all independents not appointees . They are there to stop and check bad legislation not overrule MPs so I can’t see why not. Stop the gravy train too.
Regarding anyone can be an MP I don’t agree. The fact that over 50% of MPs are now parachuted in by central party offices on both sides of the house shows you who chooses your MP and it’s definitely not you. In reality that’s two offices in central London choosing 300 of our MPs . Is that democracy at work? Not a chance.
I’d also scrap the whip system so MPs vote with their conscience and their constituency foremost in their minds not their political career.
I could go on and on but I also think Party’s and MPs should have very limited funding for elections paid for by the state .
Absolutely no income for them or their party or local offices etc while they are and MP. Pay them a lot more as the wages are pretty crap. But no other income or side companies to divert to. No family jobs. I’d adopt the expenses report of 2009 in full which would piss off a lot of the gravel train lovers.
Also when they lose their seat we keep paying them for four years but they can’t take any other roles which would stop pocket lining and jobs waiting in the wings for influence . I would apply this across all parties and stop the unions from donating too. All party funds from the state are based on your number of votes .
Lastly I’d have PR to truly reflect the votes made. First past the post means a minority voted party can dictate to all of the population again that’s not democracy as it handcuffs two thirds of the population. I agree with you it can cause delays but it also gives everyone a voice and everyone is considered in any policy. I was against this years ago I admit as I thought it caused a mess but I can see the benefits now and they outweigh the negatives.
There lots of good stuff like the cross party committees holding others to account a little. But they are drowned out by the negatives. .
There’s loads to discuss and I don’t have the skill to draw up this stuff but we do have the talent in this country it’s just do we have the will to have true democracy.
Yes i think you are right about cross party committee's and there is a lot of it that goes on, there is not a great divide between the partys on most things but an opposition is there to oppose and that is what we all see on the tv not the good stuff they do between them.
I also agree the whip is not the way to go and everyone elected should vote for what is good for the people in their constituency.
As i said there is nothing stopping you standing as an mp if the party you support dont think you are good enough there is nothing to stop you standing as an independent.Everyone has the opportunity not everyone wants to take it.
Do you think a candidate should be a local for at least 5 years before he’s allowed to run? Only to stop the parachutes . "
That's a good suggestion. But the masses don't seem to care about it too much. They vote for whomever their party sticks in. |
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By *ackal1 OP Couple
over a year ago
Manchester |
"Before we start the usual banter I admit I’m anti Boris but please don’t think that’s why I’m posting this. It’s also not about Brexit. The wasted oil windfall prompted me.
There lots of good stuff like the cross party committees holding others to account a little. But they are drowned out by the negatives. .
There’s loads to discuss and I don’t have the skill to draw up this stuff but we do have the talent in this country it’s just do we have the will to have true democracy.
Yes i think you are right about cross party committee's and there is a lot of it that goes on, there is not a great divide between the partys on most things but an opposition is there to oppose and that is what we all see on the tv not the good stuff they do between them.
I also agree the whip is not the way to go and everyone elected should vote for what is good for the people in their constituency.
As i said there is nothing stopping you standing as an mp if the party you support dont think you are good enough there is nothing to stop you standing as an independent.Everyone has the opportunity not everyone wants to take it.
Do you think a candidate should be a local for at least 5 years before he’s allowed to run? Only to stop the parachutes .
That's a good suggestion. But the masses don't seem to care about it too much. They vote for whomever their party sticks in. "
Yes sad but true . It is however something that we need to address. I don’t care which party you favour but your local MP should have your interests at heart.
A local issue quite often bring people of polar political views together . Having a local MP who understands would surely be a benefit .
We are re-creating Rotten Boroughs all over again.
It’s also a reason why I think local council politics should all be independent as they should put the local issue first not a party manifesto . How can the local needs of say Oldham be the same as Wimbledon? One manifesto doesn’t fit all.
Too often local councillors are not intelligent enough to run a town so they just follow party lines which isn’t the answer . It’s should be local need . |
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"Before we start the usual banter I admit I’m anti Boris but please don’t think that’s why I’m posting this. It’s also not about Brexit. The wasted oil windfall prompted me.
There lots of good stuff like the cross party committees holding others to account a little. But they are drowned out by the negatives. .
There’s loads to discuss and I don’t have the skill to draw up this stuff but we do have the talent in this country it’s just do we have the will to have true democracy.
Yes i think you are right about cross party committee's and there is a lot of it that goes on, there is not a great divide between the partys on most things but an opposition is there to oppose and that is what we all see on the tv not the good stuff they do between them.
I also agree the whip is not the way to go and everyone elected should vote for what is good for the people in their constituency.
As i said there is nothing stopping you standing as an mp if the party you support dont think you are good enough there is nothing to stop you standing as an independent.Everyone has the opportunity not everyone wants to take it.
Do you think a candidate should be a local for at least 5 years before he’s allowed to run? Only to stop the parachutes .
That's a good suggestion. But the masses don't seem to care about it too much. They vote for whomever their party sticks in.
Yes sad but true . It is however something that we need to address. I don’t care which party you favour but your local MP should have your interests at heart.
A local issue quite often bring people of polar political views together . Having a local MP who understands would surely be a benefit .
We are re-creating Rotten Boroughs all over again.
It’s also a reason why I think local council politics should all be independent as they should put the local issue first not a party manifesto . How can the local needs of say Oldham be the same as Wimbledon? One manifesto doesn’t fit all.
Too often local councillors are not intelligent enough to run a town so they just follow party lines which isn’t the answer . It’s should be local need . "
well im glad to see that you think mp,s should put their constituencies first but i dont see how this fits in with your views on brussels as an mep could not reflect the views of the area he represents the whole thing is too big.  |
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"Before we start the usual banter I admit I’m anti Boris but please don’t think that’s why I’m posting this. It’s also not about Brexit. The wasted oil windfall prompted me.
There lots of good stuff like the cross party committees holding others to account a little. But they are drowned out by the negatives. .
There’s loads to discuss and I don’t have the skill to draw up this stuff but we do have the talent in this country it’s just do we have the will to have true democracy.
Yes i think you are right about cross party committee's and there is a lot of it that goes on, there is not a great divide between the partys on most things but an opposition is there to oppose and that is what we all see on the tv not the good stuff they do between them.
I also agree the whip is not the way to go and everyone elected should vote for what is good for the people in their constituency.
As i said there is nothing stopping you standing as an mp if the party you support dont think you are good enough there is nothing to stop you standing as an independent.Everyone has the opportunity not everyone wants to take it.
Do you think a candidate should be a local for at least 5 years before he’s allowed to run? Only to stop the parachutes .
That's a good suggestion. But the masses don't seem to care about it too much. They vote for whomever their party sticks in.
Yes sad but true . It is however something that we need to address. I don’t care which party you favour but your local MP should have your interests at heart.
A local issue quite often bring people of polar political views together . Having a local MP who understands would surely be a benefit .
We are re-creating Rotten Boroughs all over again.
It’s also a reason why I think local council politics should all be independent as they should put the local issue first not a party manifesto . How can the local needs of say Oldham be the same as Wimbledon? One manifesto doesn’t fit all.
Too often local councillors are not intelligent enough to run a town so they just follow party lines which isn’t the answer . It’s should be local need . "
Personally, I think there needs to be more power devolved to local areas on some issues. Problems faced by people in Cornwall are not the same as problems faced by people in Manchester. As an example.
And I think we would be better off if we worked on a larger-than-national scale on issues like health (tackling covid), the movement of people, the environment, defence, human rights and justice.
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By *ackal1 OP Couple
over a year ago
Manchester |
"Before we start the usual banter I admit I’m anti Boris but please don’t think that’s why I’m posting this. It’s also not about Brexit. The wasted oil windfall prompted me.
There lots of good stuff like the cross party committees holding others to account a little. But they are drowned out by the negatives. .
There’s loads to discuss and I don’t have the skill to draw up this stuff but we do have the talent in this country it’s just do we have the will to have true democracy.
Yes i think you are right about cross party committee's and there is a lot of it that goes on, there is not a great divide between the partys on most things but an opposition is there to oppose and that is what we all see on the tv not the good stuff they do between them.
I also agree the whip is not the way to go and everyone elected should vote for what is good for the people in their constituency.
As i said there is nothing stopping you standing as an mp if the party you support dont think you are good enough there is nothing to stop you standing as an independent.Everyone has the opportunity not everyone wants to take it.
Do you think a candidate should be a local for at least 5 years before he’s allowed to run? Only to stop the parachutes .
That's a good suggestion. But the masses don't seem to care about it too much. They vote for whomever their party sticks in.
Yes sad but true . It is however something that we need to address. I don’t care which party you favour but your local MP should have your interests at heart.
A local issue quite often bring people of polar political views together . Having a local MP who understands would surely be a benefit .
We are re-creating Rotten Boroughs all over again.
It’s also a reason why I think local council politics should all be independent as they should put the local issue first not a party manifesto . How can the local needs of say Oldham be the same as Wimbledon? One manifesto doesn’t fit all.
Too often local councillors are not intelligent enough to run a town so they just follow party lines which isn’t the answer . It’s should be local need . well im glad to see that you think mp,s should put their constituencies first but i dont see how this fits in with your views on brussels as an mep could not reflect the views of the area he represents the whole thing is too big. "
I’m sure the local leisure centre being built isn’t in an MEP’s agenda as flower planting is not on the agenda for an MP but is for a Parish councillor . It’s levels as you know very well.
But please let’s leave the EU out of this as it’s about us as a “democracy” |
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"Before we start the usual banter I admit I’m anti Boris but please don’t think that’s why I’m posting this. It’s also not about Brexit. The wasted oil windfall prompted me.
There lots of good stuff like the cross party committees holding others to account a little. But they are drowned out by the negatives. .
There’s loads to discuss and I don’t have the skill to draw up this stuff but we do have the talent in this country it’s just do we have the will to have true democracy.
Yes i think you are right about cross party committee's and there is a lot of it that goes on, there is not a great divide between the partys on most things but an opposition is there to oppose and that is what we all see on the tv not the good stuff they do between them.
I also agree the whip is not the way to go and everyone elected should vote for what is good for the people in their constituency.
As i said there is nothing stopping you standing as an mp if the party you support dont think you are good enough there is nothing to stop you standing as an independent.Everyone has the opportunity not everyone wants to take it.
Do you think a candidate should be a local for at least 5 years before he’s allowed to run? Only to stop the parachutes .
That's a good suggestion. But the masses don't seem to care about it too much. They vote for whomever their party sticks in.
Yes sad but true . It is however something that we need to address. I don’t care which party you favour but your local MP should have your interests at heart.
A local issue quite often bring people of polar political views together . Having a local MP who understands would surely be a benefit .
We are re-creating Rotten Boroughs all over again.
It’s also a reason why I think local council politics should all be independent as they should put the local issue first not a party manifesto . How can the local needs of say Oldham be the same as Wimbledon? One manifesto doesn’t fit all.
Too often local councillors are not intelligent enough to run a town so they just follow party lines which isn’t the answer . It’s should be local need . well im glad to see that you think mp,s should put their constituencies first but i dont see how this fits in with your views on brussels as an mep could not reflect the views of the area he represents the whole thing is too big.
I’m sure the local leisure centre being built isn’t in an MEP’s agenda as flower planting is not on the agenda for an MP but is for a Parish councillor . It’s levels as you know very well.
But please let’s leave the EU out of this as it’s about us as a “democracy” "
well im sure the polish mep who represents the area with the biggest coal mine and power station in Europe would disagree its just about flower pots and leisure centres but yes we can leave it out of this thread.
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By *ackal1 OP Couple
over a year ago
Manchester |
"Before we start the usual banter I admit I’m anti Boris but please don’t think that’s why I’m posting this. It’s also not about Brexit. The wasted oil windfall prompted me.
There lots of good stuff like the cross party committees holding others to account a little. But they are drowned out by the negatives. .
There’s loads to discuss and I don’t have the skill to draw up this stuff but we do have the talent in this country it’s just do we have the will to have true democracy.
Yes i think you are right about cross party committee's and there is a lot of it that goes on, there is not a great divide between the partys on most things but an opposition is there to oppose and that is what we all see on the tv not the good stuff they do between them.
I also agree the whip is not the way to go and everyone elected should vote for what is good for the people in their constituency.
As i said there is nothing stopping you standing as an mp if the party you support dont think you are good enough there is nothing to stop you standing as an independent.Everyone has the opportunity not everyone wants to take it.
Do you think a candidate should be a local for at least 5 years before he’s allowed to run? Only to stop the parachutes .
That's a good suggestion. But the masses don't seem to care about it too much. They vote for whomever their party sticks in.
Yes sad but true . It is however something that we need to address. I don’t care which party you favour but your local MP should have your interests at heart.
A local issue quite often bring people of polar political views together . Having a local MP who understands would surely be a benefit .
We are re-creating Rotten Boroughs all over again.
It’s also a reason why I think local council politics should all be independent as they should put the local issue first not a party manifesto . How can the local needs of say Oldham be the same as Wimbledon? One manifesto doesn’t fit all.
Too often local councillors are not intelligent enough to run a town so they just follow party lines which isn’t the answer . It’s should be local need . well im glad to see that you think mp,s should put their constituencies first but i dont see how this fits in with your views on brussels as an mep could not reflect the views of the area he represents the whole thing is too big.
I’m sure the local leisure centre being built isn’t in an MEP’s agenda as flower planting is not on the agenda for an MP but is for a Parish councillor . It’s levels as you know very well.
But please let’s leave the EU out of this as it’s about us as a “democracy” well im sure the polish mep who represents the area with the biggest coal mine and power station in Europe would disagree its just about flower pots and leisure centres but yes we can leave it out of this thread.
"
His responsibility would not include local issue such as those flower pots or leisure centres as the eu doesn’t get invoked at such a low level. His interest would be on EU cola mining and his country’s own industry not each coal mine.
But let’s move on and stick to the U.K. and how we are run. The EU debate is done to death on here and I’m as guilty as you so let’s stop.
Is that ok?
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"Before we start the usual banter I admit I’m anti Boris but please don’t think that’s why I’m posting this. It’s also not about Brexit. The wasted oil windfall prompted me.
There lots of good stuff like the cross party committees holding others to account a little. But they are drowned out by the negatives. .
There’s loads to discuss and I don’t have the skill to draw up this stuff but we do have the talent in this country it’s just do we have the will to have true democracy.
Yes i think you are right about cross party committee's and there is a lot of it that goes on, there is not a great divide between the partys on most things but an opposition is there to oppose and that is what we all see on the tv not the good stuff they do between them.
I also agree the whip is not the way to go and everyone elected should vote for what is good for the people in their constituency.
As i said there is nothing stopping you standing as an mp if the party you support dont think you are good enough there is nothing to stop you standing as an independent.Everyone has the opportunity not everyone wants to take it.
Do you think a candidate should be a local for at least 5 years before he’s allowed to run? Only to stop the parachutes .
That's a good suggestion. But the masses don't seem to care about it too much. They vote for whomever their party sticks in.
Yes sad but true . It is however something that we need to address. I don’t care which party you favour but your local MP should have your interests at heart.
A local issue quite often bring people of polar political views together . Having a local MP who understands would surely be a benefit .
We are re-creating Rotten Boroughs all over again.
It’s also a reason why I think local council politics should all be independent as they should put the local issue first not a party manifesto . How can the local needs of say Oldham be the same as Wimbledon? One manifesto doesn’t fit all.
Too often local councillors are not intelligent enough to run a town so they just follow party lines which isn’t the answer . It’s should be local need . well im glad to see that you think mp,s should put their constituencies first but i dont see how this fits in with your views on brussels as an mep could not reflect the views of the area he represents the whole thing is too big.
I’m sure the local leisure centre being built isn’t in an MEP’s agenda as flower planting is not on the agenda for an MP but is for a Parish councillor . It’s levels as you know very well.
But please let’s leave the EU out of this as it’s about us as a “democracy” well im sure the polish mep who represents the area with the biggest coal mine and power station in Europe would disagree its just about flower pots and leisure centres but yes we can leave it out of this thread.
His responsibility would not include local issue such as those flower pots or leisure centres as the eu doesn’t get invoked at such a low level. His interest would be on EU cola mining and his country’s own industry not each coal mine.
But let’s move on and stick to the U.K. and how we are run. The EU debate is done to death on here and I’m as guilty as you so let’s stop.
Is that ok?
"
ive agreed to stop in the last post but will let you have the last word .  |
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By *ackal1 OP Couple
over a year ago
Manchester |
"Before we start the usual banter I admit I’m anti Boris but please don’t think that’s why I’m posting this. It’s also not about Brexit. The wasted oil windfall prompted me.
There lots of good stuff like the cross party committees holding others to account a little. But they are drowned out by the negatives. .
There’s loads to discuss and I don’t have the skill to draw up this stuff but we do have the talent in this country it’s just do we have the will to have true democracy.
Yes i think you are right about cross party committee's and there is a lot of it that goes on, there is not a great divide between the partys on most things but an opposition is there to oppose and that is what we all see on the tv not the good stuff they do between them.
I also agree the whip is not the way to go and everyone elected should vote for what is good for the people in their constituency.
As i said there is nothing stopping you standing as an mp if the party you support dont think you are good enough there is nothing to stop you standing as an independent.Everyone has the opportunity not everyone wants to take it.
Do you think a candidate should be a local for at least 5 years before he’s allowed to run? Only to stop the parachutes .
That's a good suggestion. But the masses don't seem to care about it too much. They vote for whomever their party sticks in.
Yes sad but true . It is however something that we need to address. I don’t care which party you favour but your local MP should have your interests at heart.
A local issue quite often bring people of polar political views together . Having a local MP who understands would surely be a benefit .
We are re-creating Rotten Boroughs all over again.
It’s also a reason why I think local council politics should all be independent as they should put the local issue first not a party manifesto . How can the local needs of say Oldham be the same as Wimbledon? One manifesto doesn’t fit all.
Too often local councillors are not intelligent enough to run a town so they just follow party lines which isn’t the answer . It’s should be local need . well im glad to see that you think mp,s should put their constituencies first but i dont see how this fits in with your views on brussels as an mep could not reflect the views of the area he represents the whole thing is too big.
I’m sure the local leisure centre being built isn’t in an MEP’s agenda as flower planting is not on the agenda for an MP but is for a Parish councillor . It’s levels as you know very well.
But please let’s leave the EU out of this as it’s about us as a “democracy” well im sure the polish mep who represents the area with the biggest coal mine and power station in Europe would disagree its just about flower pots and leisure centres but yes we can leave it out of this thread.
His responsibility would not include local issue such as those flower pots or leisure centres as the eu doesn’t get invoked at such a low level. His interest would be on EU cola mining and his country’s own industry not each coal mine.
But let’s move on and stick to the U.K. and how we are run. The EU debate is done to death on here and I’m as guilty as you so let’s stop.
Is that ok?
ive agreed to stop in the last post but will let you have the last word . "
You’re a gent and I know I was being a tit
I do think our country’s politics is divisive in many ways. You and I agree the committee stuff works because there’s less show boating and image at stake.
Why can’t we have some more consensus stuff going on where it’s good for the country? It seems our extreme party politics stops the sensible answer being found that works. I know we can’t be ruled by committee but status and strong government posturing doesn’t help solve anything .
It could be a bit more inclusive and I think PR would do that to an extent . |
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"Before we start the usual banter I admit I’m anti Boris but please don’t think that’s why I’m posting this. It’s also not about Brexit. The wasted oil windfall prompted me.
There lots of good stuff like the cross party committees holding others to account a little. But they are drowned out by the negatives. .
There’s loads to discuss and I don’t have the skill to draw up this stuff but we do have the talent in this country it’s just do we have the will to have true democracy.
Yes i think you are right about cross party committee's and there is a lot of it that goes on, there is not a great divide between the partys on most things but an opposition is there to oppose and that is what we all see on the tv not the good stuff they do between them.
I also agree the whip is not the way to go and everyone elected should vote for what is good for the people in their constituency.
As i said there is nothing stopping you standing as an mp if the party you support dont think you are good enough there is nothing to stop you standing as an independent.Everyone has the opportunity not everyone wants to take it.
Do you think a candidate should be a local for at least 5 years before he’s allowed to run? Only to stop the parachutes .
That's a good suggestion. But the masses don't seem to care about it too much. They vote for whomever their party sticks in.
Yes sad but true . It is however something that we need to address. I don’t care which party you favour but your local MP should have your interests at heart.
A local issue quite often bring people of polar political views together . Having a local MP who understands would surely be a benefit .
We are re-creating Rotten Boroughs all over again.
It’s also a reason why I think local council politics should all be independent as they should put the local issue first not a party manifesto . How can the local needs of say Oldham be the same as Wimbledon? One manifesto doesn’t fit all.
Too often local councillors are not intelligent enough to run a town so they just follow party lines which isn’t the answer . It’s should be local need . well im glad to see that you think mp,s should put their constituencies first but i dont see how this fits in with your views on brussels as an mep could not reflect the views of the area he represents the whole thing is too big.
I’m sure the local leisure centre being built isn’t in an MEP’s agenda as flower planting is not on the agenda for an MP but is for a Parish councillor . It’s levels as you know very well.
But please let’s leave the EU out of this as it’s about us as a “democracy” well im sure the polish mep who represents the area with the biggest coal mine and power station in Europe would disagree its just about flower pots and leisure centres but yes we can leave it out of this thread.
His responsibility would not include local issue such as those flower pots or leisure centres as the eu doesn’t get invoked at such a low level. His interest would be on EU cola mining and his country’s own industry not each coal mine.
But let’s move on and stick to the U.K. and how we are run. The EU debate is done to death on here and I’m as guilty as you so let’s stop.
Is that ok?
ive agreed to stop in the last post but will let you have the last word .
You’re a gent and I know I was being a tit
I do think our country’s politics is divisive in many ways. You and I agree the committee stuff works because there’s less show boating and image at stake.
Why can’t we have some more consensus stuff going on where it’s good for the country? It seems our extreme party politics stops the sensible answer being found that works. I know we can’t be ruled by committee but status and strong government posturing doesn’t help solve anything .
It could be a bit more inclusive and I think PR would do that to an extent . "
I personally think we do question time is just theatre nothng else how often does a party reverse what their opponents brought in and they were so against at the time? hardly ever the who had it down to a tee years ago "meet the new boss same as the old boss" |
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By *ackal1 OP Couple
over a year ago
Manchester |
"Before we start the usual banter I admit I’m anti Boris but please don’t think that’s why I’m posting this. It’s also not about Brexit. The wasted oil windfall prompted me.
There lots of good stuff like the cross party committees holding others to account a little. But they are drowned out by the negatives. .
There’s loads to discuss and I don’t have the skill to draw up this stuff but we do have the talent in this country it’s just do we have the will to have true democracy.
Yes i think you are right about cross party committee's and there is a lot of it that goes on, there is not a great divide between the partys on most things but an opposition is there to oppose and that is what we all see on the tv not the good stuff they do between them.
I also agree the whip is not the way to go and everyone elected should vote for what is good for the people in their constituency.
As i said there is nothing stopping you standing as an mp if the party you support dont think you are good enough there is nothing to stop you standing as an independent.Everyone has the opportunity not everyone wants to take it.
Do you think a candidate should be a local for at least 5 years before he’s allowed to run? Only to stop the parachutes .
That's a good suggestion. But the masses don't seem to care about it too much. They vote for whomever their party sticks in.
Yes sad but true . It is however something that we need to address. I don’t care which party you favour but your local MP should have your interests at heart.
A local issue quite often bring people of polar political views together . Having a local MP who understands would surely be a benefit .
We are re-creating Rotten Boroughs all over again.
It’s also a reason why I think local council politics should all be independent as they should put the local issue first not a party manifesto . How can the local needs of say Oldham be the same as Wimbledon? One manifesto doesn’t fit all.
Too often local councillors are not intelligent enough to run a town so they just follow party lines which isn’t the answer . It’s should be local need . well im glad to see that you think mp,s should put their constituencies first but i dont see how this fits in with your views on brussels as an mep could not reflect the views of the area he represents the whole thing is too big.
I’m sure the local leisure centre being built isn’t in an MEP’s agenda as flower planting is not on the agenda for an MP but is for a Parish councillor . It’s levels as you know very well.
But please let’s leave the EU out of this as it’s about us as a “democracy” well im sure the polish mep who represents the area with the biggest coal mine and power station in Europe would disagree its just about flower pots and leisure centres but yes we can leave it out of this thread.
His responsibility would not include local issue such as those flower pots or leisure centres as the eu doesn’t get invoked at such a low level. His interest would be on EU cola mining and his country’s own industry not each coal mine.
But let’s move on and stick to the U.K. and how we are run. The EU debate is done to death on here and I’m as guilty as you so let’s stop.
Is that ok?
ive agreed to stop in the last post but will let you have the last word .
You’re a gent and I know I was being a tit
I do think our country’s politics is divisive in many ways. You and I agree the committee stuff works because there’s less show boating and image at stake.
Why can’t we have some more consensus stuff going on where it’s good for the country? It seems our extreme party politics stops the sensible answer being found that works. I know we can’t be ruled by committee but status and strong government posturing doesn’t help solve anything .
It could be a bit more inclusive and I think PR would do that to an extent . I personally think we do question time is just theatre nothng else how often does a party reverse what their opponents brought in and they were so against at the time? hardly ever the who had it down to a tee years ago "meet the new boss same as the old boss""
I know old age brings cynicism but I think we are right in our opinions that it’s not genuine and definitely not working.
I have to ref the last election and I know it was slanted by Brexit but if you think it logically even with 43% of the vote they should only have 43% of the seats .
It was the same for Blair at 35% of the vote but he had a 155 seat majority . In total he had 355 MPs . The tories got 3% less votes but only half the number of seats. Then came the liberals who got two thirds the number of votes as labour but only 62 seats .less than a sixth .
Something is wrong when two thirds of the population vote against you and yet you can have a 155 seat majority .
In each case more people voted against but don’t have a relevant sized voice.
If people knew their vote counted would more vote ? . So in a safe labour seat you would still get Tory and liberals voting as it matters.
If MPs knew they had to listen or be at real risking losing their jobs would we have better government.
I think they have all since the 70s been pretty ropey. The U.K. should have been far more advanced and better educated .
I just think it’s as you say same old same old. I think it’s time for a change . |
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"Before we start the usual banter I admit I’m anti Boris but please don’t think that’s why I’m posting this. It’s also not about Brexit. The wasted oil windfall prompted me.
Over a lot of years I’ve constantly heard leader after leader say we will do this or that to make everyone better off, safer, healthier etc etc.
What I’ve seen in reality is the increasing money lining of MPs and officials pockets , money wasted on over manned government, money wasted on over priced government supplies. No not just PPE but MOD NHS etc. The wife of David Cameron’s family allegedly make millions on the back of him increasing grants for wind turbines which suddenly appeared in great numbers on his in laws land not long after he made those changes. Blair make millions on tours after dinner speaking knowing he’s wasted our money and contributed to the killing of thousands of innocent people. Why isn’t he held to account for the lies? Bankers allowed big bonuses while we were still paying off their debts. Over 900 appointed lords. Do we really need that many in a second chamber and shouldn’t they be independent or elected?
Do you actually feel richer or safer or healthier over the last 30 years given our economy has nearly doubled in size.
My question is, does the way we chose our leaders and how we run our government actually work for us in today’s world? Are we in danger of walking into a dictatorial leadership or just in danger of failing as a state? We have brains and millions of hard workers, but do we actually have a capable system which chooses the best people fit to lead us?
The whole system is set up to support itself. It's gradually, and incrementally removing power and influence from ordinary people. The UK is slowly moving towards the US model where the government purely serves the corporations that sponsor both of their two parties.
Looking at the mess the US is becoming with their massive debt then are you saying it’s too late for us and that’s our future? Are we voters only interested in image?
“Image blindness” is exactly the problem that many Brits seem to be afflicted by.
Angela Merkel is probably the most successful post WW2 Leader of any European country. No German ever voted for Merkel because of her image, they voted for her because she was sincere, credible and got on with the job.
We would do a lot better as a nation if we tried to see past the first dimensional image that someone portrays."
That's why I always liked screaming Lord Sutch, at least you knew what you were voting for. I dare say he might have done a better job than Boris, at running things for a bit. |
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By *ackal1 OP Couple
over a year ago
Manchester |
"Before we start the usual banter I admit I’m anti Boris but please don’t think that’s why I’m posting this. It’s also not about Brexit. The wasted oil windfall prompted me.
Over a lot of years I’ve constantly heard leader after leader say we will do this or that to make everyone better off, safer, healthier etc etc.
What I’ve seen in reality is the increasing money lining of MPs and officials pockets , money wasted on over manned government, money wasted on over priced government supplies. No not just PPE but MOD NHS etc. The wife of David Cameron’s family allegedly make millions on the back of him increasing grants for wind turbines which suddenly appeared in great numbers on his in laws land not long after he made those changes. Blair make millions on tours after dinner speaking knowing he’s wasted our money and contributed to the killing of thousands of innocent people. Why isn’t he held to account for the lies? Bankers allowed big bonuses while we were still paying off their debts. Over 900 appointed lords. Do we really need that many in a second chamber and shouldn’t they be independent or elected?
Do you actually feel richer or safer or healthier over the last 30 years given our economy has nearly doubled in size.
My question is, does the way we chose our leaders and how we run our government actually work for us in today’s world? Are we in danger of walking into a dictatorial leadership or just in danger of failing as a state? We have brains and millions of hard workers, but do we actually have a capable system which chooses the best people fit to lead us?
The whole system is set up to support itself. It's gradually, and incrementally removing power and influence from ordinary people. The UK is slowly moving towards the US model where the government purely serves the corporations that sponsor both of their two parties.
Looking at the mess the US is becoming with their massive debt then are you saying it’s too late for us and that’s our future? Are we voters only interested in image?
“Image blindness” is exactly the problem that many Brits seem to be afflicted by.
Angela Merkel is probably the most successful post WW2 Leader of any European country. No German ever voted for Merkel because of her image, they voted for her because she was sincere, credible and got on with the job.
We would do a lot better as a nation if we tried to see past the first dimensional image that someone portrays.
That's why I always liked screaming Lord Sutch, at least you knew what you were voting for. I dare say he might have done a better job than Boris, at running things for a bit."
I can’t possibly comment Boris as I asked everyone not to in my OP. 
I do miss Screaming Lord Such. Yes he only totalled around 10,000 votes in his time but he confirmed anyone can run at an election it’s just you had very little or no chance of being elected even if you had good ideas. He didn’t have any but some hidden talented people I’m convinced must do. . Anyway back to the two party state soon to be one. Sad and worrying. |
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