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un-taking back control?
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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Apparently Johnson has decided to relax immigration rules to desperately get enough truck drivers. So... um... does that mean Brexit isn't working out great? Was ending free movement of workers with the EU actually... a bad idea?
And what happened to taking back control? Are we now un-taking back control?
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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago
North West |
"Apparently Johnson has decided to relax immigration rules to desperately get enough truck drivers. So... um... does that mean Brexit isn't working out great? Was ending free movement of workers with the EU actually... a bad idea?
And what happened to taking back control? Are we now un-taking back control?
"
The spin on this will be that Brexit is about taking back control because now we can invite only the numbers we want, for the time that we want them. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Apparently Johnson has decided to relax immigration rules to desperately get enough truck drivers. So... um... does that mean Brexit isn't working out great? Was ending free movement of workers with the EU actually... a bad idea?
And what happened to taking back control? Are we now un-taking back control?
The spin on this will be that Brexit is about taking back control because now we can invite only the numbers we want, for the time that we want them."
I'm waiting for the new slogan.
Let's Un-take Back Control Temporarily. |
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"Apparently Johnson has decided to relax immigration rules to desperately get enough truck drivers. So... um... does that mean Brexit isn't working out great? Was ending free movement of workers with the EU actually... a bad idea?
And what happened to taking back control? Are we now un-taking back control?
The spin on this will be that Brexit is about taking back control because now we can invite only the numbers we want, for the time that we want them."
well thats not spin its a fact. |
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By *ackal1Couple
over a year ago
Manchester |
Brexit is proving to be a self inflicted disaster. I read that due to the lack of process workers U.K. turkeys are possibly going to be replaced by Brazilian turkeys judging by Boris recent grovelling to the Brazilian President. Great for British breeders then.
What this debacle has exposed even more than the Brexit issue is this governments completely useless ability to react.
For six months industry has been screaming we need workers but the government wouldn’t move just to save face. Fuck up after fuck up.
It’s like watching a guy try to put out a raging forest fire by stamping his feet on it!, |
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"Brexit is proving to be a self inflicted disaster. I read that due to the lack of process workers U.K. turkeys are possibly going to be replaced by Brazilian turkeys judging by Boris recent grovelling to the Brazilian President. Great for British breeders then.
What this debacle has exposed even more than the Brexit issue is this governments completely useless ability to react.
For six months industry has been screaming we need workers but the government wouldn’t move just to save face. Fuck up after fuck up.
It’s like watching a guy try to put out a raging forest fire by stamping his feet on it!, "
Possibly seems to be the key word. its speculation which causes a lot of these problems with people taking it as fact and then panic buying we have seen it with the petrol today. |
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the tory government had 5 years to get things sorted but as usual they relied on other peoples money which they soon ran out of. the depressing thing about their huge failings in all areas is that they will spend far more money than they would've if they had invested our own money in the countries infrastructure rather than desperately trying flog it off on the cheap to foreign interests. the tory government planned to fail because they failed to plan. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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A sticking plaster on a gaping wound some will say. Some will also say that they should have done this earlier. Only until we get to the very edge of disaster does the government do something about it others will say.
These past years have appeared to be a slow moving car crash, can see it happening but cannot do anything to stop it. |
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By *ackal1Couple
over a year ago
Manchester |
"Brexit is proving to be a self inflicted disaster. I read that due to the lack of process workers U.K. turkeys are possibly going to be replaced by Brazilian turkeys judging by Boris recent grovelling to the Brazilian President. Great for British breeders then.
What this debacle has exposed even more than the Brexit issue is this governments completely useless ability to react.
For six months industry has been screaming we need workers but the government wouldn’t move just to save face. Fuck up after fuck up.
It’s like watching a guy try to put out a raging forest fire by stamping his feet on it!, Possibly seems to be the key word. its speculation which causes a lot of these problems with people taking it as fact and then panic buying we have seen it with the petrol today."
The shortages of meat process workers, hospitality workers etc is nothing to do with possibly that’s fact . HGV drivers has had the plug of EU drivers filling the long standing gap for years . Brexit has piled on top of the Covid issue which again is fact. |
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By *ackal1Couple
over a year ago
Manchester |
"The lorry driver shortage is Europe-wide. Poland is 120,000 lorry drivers short.
Coronavirus has been the major factor causing shortages."
Absolutely correct there has been a shortage for years . Ours was and to a great extent still is being filled by EU migrants . Covid has opened the wound Brexit has added salt.
Poland’s economy is growing rapidly and drivers will move back there as wages rise .
Being unwelcome in the U.K. is a persuasive argument to leave. |
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"Apparently Johnson has decided to relax immigration rules to desperately get enough truck drivers. So... um... does that mean Brexit isn't working out great? Was ending free movement of workers with the EU actually... a bad idea?
And what happened to taking back control? Are we now un-taking back control?
The spin on this will be that Brexit is about taking back control because now we can invite only the numbers we want, for the time that we want them.well thats not spin its a fact."
I am not sure how many are going to come back if you then kick them back at the first point they are not needed….
What is the incentive? Please don’t say money because if that was truly the answer then the natives would be queuing up to do these jobs |
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"Being reported up here, that one Lincolnshire grower, is offering upto £30p/h for vegetable pickers. "
And I bet the unemployed locals will still not do it as they will deem it’s beneath them |
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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago
Grantham |
"Being reported up here, that one Lincolnshire grower, is offering upto £30p/h for vegetable pickers.
And I bet the unemployed locals will still not do it as they will deem it’s beneath them "
Takes a special kind of person to work in a field of wet cabbages, when the cold wind howls in from the Urals!  |
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By *estivalMan
over a year ago
borehamwood |
"Being reported up here, that one Lincolnshire grower, is offering upto £30p/h for vegetable pickers.
And I bet the unemployed locals will still not do it as they will deem it’s beneath them "
spose it all depends on if the 30 quid an hour is actually 30 quid,remember during lockdown when peeps were prepared to go pick the veg the farmers wanted em living on site and to pay for shite accomadation,if its actually 30 quid an hour i reakon they wont have a problem,i doubt if peeps will want to pay the increased prices for food though,we been spoilt paying next to nothing for stuff |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The lorry driver shortage is Europe-wide. Poland is 120,000 lorry drivers short.
Coronavirus has been the major factor causing shortages."
Despite that it is only the UK that is having major supply chain issues... |
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By *mmmMaybeCouple
over a year ago
West Wales |
"The lorry driver shortage is Europe-wide. Poland is 120,000 lorry drivers short.
Coronavirus has been the major factor causing shortages.
Despite that it is only the UK that is having major supply chain issues..."
We were also the only country where people stockpiled toilet roll, what does that tell you?
40,000 HGV tests have been cancelled in the last two years. I have a mate in Essex who passed his class 2 before Covid & because he’s under 28 & a new driver he hasn’t been able to get a job unless he goes via an agency with no guarantee of work. So he’s still at his old job as that’s a leap of faith that with a mortgage & young family he’s not prepared to take.
Haulage companies also buy 30YR+ only insurance policies to keep cost down, well guess what the other side of that coin is?
Some haulage companies only have themselves to blame.
S |
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"The lorry driver shortage is Europe-wide. Poland is 120,000 lorry drivers short.
Coronavirus has been the major factor causing shortages.
Despite that it is only the UK that is having major supply chain issues...
We were also the only country where people stockpiled toilet roll, what does that tell you?
40,000 HGV tests have been cancelled in the last two years. I have a mate in Essex who passed his class 2 before Covid & because he’s under 28 & a new driver he hasn’t been able to get a job unless he goes via an agency with no guarantee of work. So he’s still at his old job as that’s a leap of faith that with a mortgage & young family he’s not prepared to take.
Haulage companies also buy 30YR+ only insurance policies to keep cost down, well guess what the other side of that coin is?
Some haulage companies only have themselves to blame.
S"
Unfortunately the toilet roll saga during the early stages of covid was the same all over not just the UK. I speak regularly with my colleagues on the continent all who reported the very same problem. The supply chain issues are again worldwide. Earlier this week on the news was pictures of dozens of ships waiting outside ports in America that are used to only having a couple at a time. My gripe is that the government did not act earlier on the lack of drivers. It's going to take time to fix so the sooner started the better. Making facilities better in the UK seems a basic thing to do. With the rest of Europe having similar problems with drivers competition could be fierce |
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"The lorry driver shortage is Europe-wide. Poland is 120,000 lorry drivers short.
Coronavirus has been the major factor causing shortages.
Absolutely correct there has been a shortage for years . Ours was and to a great extent still is being filled by EU migrants . Covid has opened the wound Brexit has added salt.
Poland’s economy is growing rapidly and drivers will move back there as wages rise .
Being unwelcome in the U.K. is a persuasive argument to leave. "
Who was made unwelcome in the uk? people were offered settled status in the uk just like uk citizens in the eu. If they chose to return it was not because they were not welcome i would guess they were only here either for short term gain or like a lot of people wanted to be near family during the pandemic.
Does anyone have any firm figures on how many hgv drivers left the uk due to brexit alone? as i cant find any.Would the world wide shortage (yes its not just the uk) have more to do with the pandemic than brexit as i cant for the life of me see how shortages of drivers in the USA for example has been because of brexit. |
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By *ovebjsMan
over a year ago
Bristol |
"The lorry driver shortage is Europe-wide. Poland is 120,000 lorry drivers short.
Coronavirus has been the major factor causing shortages.
Despite that it is only the UK that is having major supply chain issues...
We were also the only country where people stockpiled toilet roll, what does that tell you?
40,000 HGV tests have been cancelled in the last two years. I have a mate in Essex who passed his class 2 before Covid & because he’s under 28 & a new driver he hasn’t been able to get a job unless he goes via an agency with no guarantee of work. So he’s still at his old job as that’s a leap of faith that with a mortgage & young family he’s not prepared to take.
Haulage companies also buy 30YR+ only insurance policies to keep cost down, well guess what the other side of that coin is?
Some haulage companies only have themselves to blame.
S"
Yup they just rely on picking up the phone to import a foreign driver because they don’t want to invest in new drivers.
Mind you it’s not all the hauliers fault as the general public have some of the blame wanting cheaper and cheaper goods driving down the margins throughout the supply chain.
People need to be prepared to pay a bit more for things.
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By *amish SMan
over a year ago
Eastleigh |
Profit for private companies comes to mind, personally I would be happy to let economic factors run their course.
The UK lorry driver gets treated like crap by their employers in the UK and the facilities for them on the highways are non existant. I remember when the UK was going to open its market to foreign drivers and companies from the EU, the UK drivers saw the writing on the wall and voiced the concerns, the haulage companies saw cheap wages and bigger profit, the problems we had then are still there and being exposed now. Temp visas will only make things worse, now and in the future.
As for agency work and wages, £15/hr for stacking supermarket shelfs in Dorset, that's nice money. For many years we have lived in a society that has put a university education before all else, those that didn't go earn less money, but now the tide is turning, if the rich want food on the shelfs, delivered, or their bins emptying then they are going to pay a non university educated person good wages to do so. Times are changing. |
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By *drianukMan
over a year ago
Spain, Lancs |
The employers have been taking advantage of cheap labour from the EU for years.
Tens of thousands of drivers have been forced out of the industry.
That they are no longer being undermined by bad bosses is a cause for celebration among all fair-minded people.
All workers whose position in the labour market was undermined by the EU are now finding themselves in demand and they can demand better treatment and pay.
Bad employers are squealing, cheered on by Remainers who want to see workers under the cosh again.
The government has to stand firm and tell the employers that it is their job, not the governments, to make themselves attractive to workers |
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By *eroy1000Man
over a year ago
milton keynes |
"The employers have been taking advantage of cheap labour from the EU for years.
Tens of thousands of drivers have been forced out of the industry.
That they are no longer being undermined by bad bosses is a cause for celebration among all fair-minded people.
All workers whose position in the labour market was undermined by the EU are now finding themselves in demand and they can demand better treatment and pay.
Bad employers are squealing, cheered on by Remainers who want to see workers under the cosh again.
The government has to stand firm and tell the employers that it is their job, not the governments, to make themselves attractive to workers"
I am not in the hgv group but just warehouse work. The change in attitude from the bosses has been huge. It not just the pay but how you get treated. Before if you dared to say anything about the conditions they simply said if you don't like it then no problem we can just pick up the phone and import a replacement. Unfortunately they were right but now they know its not that easy anymore and have made things much better for us. The hgv side is going to be harder as it takes a lot of time to train them but training must press on and improve the facilities for these drivers |
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By *drianukMan
over a year ago
Spain, Lancs |
"The employers have been taking advantage of cheap labour from the EU for years.
Tens of thousands of drivers have been forced out of the industry.
That they are no longer being undermined by bad bosses is a cause for celebration among all fair-minded people.
All workers whose position in the labour market was undermined by the EU are now finding themselves in demand and they can demand better treatment and pay.
Bad employers are squealing, cheered on by Remainers who want to see workers under the cosh again.
The government has to stand firm and tell the employers that it is their job, not the governments, to make themselves attractive to workers
I am not in the hgv group but just warehouse work. The change in attitude from the bosses has been huge. It not just the pay but how you get treated. Before if you dared to say anything about the conditions they simply said if you don't like it then no problem we can just pick up the phone and import a replacement. Unfortunately they were right but now they know its not that easy anymore and have made things much better for us. The hgv side is going to be harder as it takes a lot of time to train them but training must press on and improve the facilities for these drivers"
Well said. |
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"The employers have been taking advantage of cheap labour from the EU for years.
Tens of thousands of drivers have been forced out of the industry.
That they are no longer being undermined by bad bosses is a cause for celebration among all fair-minded people.
All workers whose position in the labour market was undermined by the EU are now finding themselves in demand and they can demand better treatment and pay.
Bad employers are squealing, cheered on by Remainers who want to see workers under the cosh again.
The government has to stand firm and tell the employers that it is their job, not the governments, to make themselves attractive to workers
I am not in the hgv group but just warehouse work. The change in attitude from the bosses has been huge. It not just the pay but how you get treated. Before if you dared to say anything about the conditions they simply said if you don't like it then no problem we can just pick up the phone and import a replacement. Unfortunately they were right but now they know its not that easy anymore and have made things much better for us. The hgv side is going to be harder as it takes a lot of time to train them but training must press on and improve the facilities for these drivers"
well thats good to know, im glad things have improved for you.  |
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"I suspect you mean the government's panic response to coronavirus."
you suspected wrongfully, however it is easliy included in the tory governments enormous and still growing list of abject failures |
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By *drianukMan
over a year ago
Spain, Lancs |
"I suspect you mean the government's panic response to coronavirus.
you suspected wrongfully, however it is easliy included in the tory governments enormous and still growing list of abject failures"
You were against lockdown? Join the club! |
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"I suspect you mean the government's panic response to coronavirus.
you suspected wrongfully, however it is easliy included in the tory governments enormous and still growing list of abject failures
You were against lockdown? Join the club!"
no, i wasn't against lockdown |
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By *ackal1Couple
over a year ago
Manchester |
"The lorry driver shortage is Europe-wide. Poland is 120,000 lorry drivers short.
Coronavirus has been the major factor causing shortages.
Absolutely correct there has been a shortage for years . Ours was and to a great extent still is being filled by EU migrants . Covid has opened the wound Brexit has added salt.
Poland’s economy is growing rapidly and drivers will move back there as wages rise .
Being unwelcome in the U.K. is a persuasive argument to leave. Who was made unwelcome in the uk? people were offered settled status in the uk just like uk citizens in the eu. If they chose to return it was not because they were not welcome i would guess they were only here either for short term gain or like a lot of people wanted to be near family during the pandemic.
Does anyone have any firm figures on how many hgv drivers left the uk due to brexit alone? as i cant find any.Would the world wide shortage (yes its not just the uk) have more to do with the pandemic than brexit as i cant for the life of me see how shortages of drivers in the USA for example has been because of brexit."
People of the Ipswich area to blame for some of this unwelcome message it’ seems. Thought you’d appreciate some local input. As you said you were unaware of any abuse.
https://fanbanter.co.uk/born-in-the-uk-youll-never-sing-that-ipswich-fans-taunt-luton-with-racist-chants/
https://www.eadt.co.uk/news/brexit-vote-unleashed-a-pandora-s-box-of-racist-bile-2276540
And this MP next town to yours just emboldens the racists in the region.
https://www.gazette-news.co.uk/news/17758823.letter-brexit-debate-emboldened-bigoted-views/
To give a balance here.
The number of drivers leaving you’re looking for is between 15-20k EU drivers .
I believe we have 20-25k here working today after Brexit.
Covid has meant 30k loss over two years . 25k tests lost but only two thirds pass and not all in transport jobs.
In addition 10k per year retiring.
So in effect the EU nationals account for 30% ish of the problem but not all.
We have had shortages for years but they helped plug the gap. The gap is now bigger than ever but trying to get those who left back is probably too late . We couldn’t afford to lose them but that’s what the industry had been saying for years before brexit.
Between now and 2025 due to ageing workforce the number who will retire is reported to be over 100k. So that’s 25k new drivers we need to stand still never mind the gap today.
Good here isn’t it! 
Covid is bad Brexit is stupid and self inflicted.
Our governments incompetence just adds to the issue. |
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"Apparently Johnson has decided to relax immigration rules to desperately get enough truck drivers. So... um... does that mean Brexit isn't working out great? Was ending free movement of workers with the EU actually... a bad idea?
And what happened to taking back control? Are we now un-taking back control?
The spin on this will be that Brexit is about taking back control because now we can invite only the numbers we want, for the time that we want them.well thats not spin its a fact.
I am not sure how many are going to come back if you then kick them back at the first point they are not needed….
What is the incentive? Please don’t say money because if that was truly the answer then the natives would be queuing up to do these jobs "
Yeah, temporary visas is going to sort it all out - not!
We've just spent five years telling people from Europe that they're not welcome in England and making life difficult for them. Now Johnson thinks he can fix things by giving them an opportunity to pay money for a visa and no doubt go through a paperwork nightmare to get one (because we are utterly unable to do _anything_ official in this country without a paperwork nightmare), to come and do poorly paid work for a few months, then be told to go home again.
The only people that are going to want to come here are those that are utterly desperate, the ones that are self-funding their journey on little rubber dinghies and the very nice Ms. Patel is making feel so welcome.
To get anything like enough people coming, not just to drive lorries but for all the other skilled jobs that we are utterly unable to fill, Johnson is going to have to offer a damn sight better than temporary visas. My guess is it will need to include at least right to bring family, right of residence for minimum 5 years with offer of leading to citizenship, immediate usage of health services and schooling for children - in other words everything that they could do before by being EU citizens coming to an EU country. Oh, and given that many who were here and went back because of the overwhelming atmosphere of being unwelcome will have incurred big costs in moving back to Europe, I imagine Johnson will also have to bung them a cash bonus just for starting back here.
Will the tories do it? Not yet. They're not desperate enough yet. This time next year? Hell yes they will do it, and it won't just be an invite to Europeans, it will be an open house for basically anyone to come if they can do the jobs. |
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By *drianukMan
over a year ago
Spain, Lancs |
"I suspect you mean the government's panic response to coronavirus.
you suspected wrongfully, however it is easliy included in the tory governments enormous and still growing list of abject failures
You were against lockdown? Join the club!
no, i wasn't against lockdown"
How should they help the economy more? |
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By *drianukMan
over a year ago
Spain, Lancs |
"The lorry driver shortage is Europe-wide. Poland is 120,000 lorry drivers short.
Coronavirus has been the major factor causing shortages.
Absolutely correct there has been a shortage for years . Ours was and to a great extent still is being filled by EU migrants . Covid has opened the wound Brexit has added salt.
Poland’s economy is growing rapidly and drivers will move back there as wages rise .
Being unwelcome in the U.K. is a persuasive argument to leave. Who was made unwelcome in the uk? people were offered settled status in the uk just like uk citizens in the eu. If they chose to return it was not because they were not welcome i would guess they were only here either for short term gain or like a lot of people wanted to be near family during the pandemic.
Does anyone have any firm figures on how many hgv drivers left the uk due to brexit alone? as i cant find any.Would the world wide shortage (yes its not just the uk) have more to do with the pandemic than brexit as i cant for the life of me see how shortages of drivers in the USA for example has been because of brexit.
People of the Ipswich area to blame for some of this unwelcome message it’ seems. Thought you’d appreciate some local input. As you said you were unaware of any abuse.
https://fanbanter.co.uk/born-in-the-uk-youll-never-sing-that-ipswich-fans-taunt-luton-with-racist-chants/
https://www.eadt.co.uk/news/brexit-vote-unleashed-a-pandora-s-box-of-racist-bile-2276540
And this MP next town to yours just emboldens the racists in the region.
https://www.gazette-news.co.uk/news/17758823.letter-brexit-debate-emboldened-bigoted-views/
To give a balance here.
The number of drivers leaving you’re looking for is between 15-20k EU drivers .
I believe we have 20-25k here working today after Brexit.
Covid has meant 30k loss over two years . 25k tests lost but only two thirds pass and not all in transport jobs.
In addition 10k per year retiring.
So in effect the EU nationals account for 30% ish of the problem but not all.
We have had shortages for years but they helped plug the gap. The gap is now bigger than ever but trying to get those who left back is probably too late . We couldn’t afford to lose them but that’s what the industry had been saying for years before brexit.
Between now and 2025 due to ageing workforce the number who will retire is reported to be over 100k. So that’s 25k new drivers we need to stand still never mind the gap today.
Good here isn’t it!
Covid is bad Brexit is stupid and self inflicted.
Our governments incompetence just adds to the issue. "
How do you think other non-eu countries recruit staff?
And no, this whole issue has nothing to do with racism |
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"How should they help the economy more?"
quite simply by stopping implementing their programme of hugely damaging idealogical policies and reversing the woefully cataclysmic policies that have had such a destructive effect on the country. |
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By *drianukMan
over a year ago
Spain, Lancs |
"How should they help the economy more?
quite simply by stopping implementing their programme of hugely damaging idealogical policies and reversing the woefully cataclysmic policies that have had such a destructive effect on the country."
Can you be more specific? |
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"The lorry driver shortage is Europe-wide. Poland is 120,000 lorry drivers short.
Coronavirus has been the major factor causing shortages.
Absolutely correct there has been a shortage for years . Ours was and to a great extent still is being filled by EU migrants . Covid has opened the wound Brexit has added salt.
Poland’s economy is growing rapidly and drivers will move back there as wages rise .
Being unwelcome in the U.K. is a persuasive argument to leave. Who was made unwelcome in the uk? people were offered settled status in the uk just like uk citizens in the eu. If they chose to return it was not because they were not welcome i would guess they were only here either for short term gain or like a lot of people wanted to be near family during the pandemic.
Does anyone have any firm figures on how many hgv drivers left the uk due to brexit alone? as i cant find any.Would the world wide shortage (yes its not just the uk) have more to do with the pandemic than brexit as i cant for the life of me see how shortages of drivers in the USA for example has been because of brexit.
People of the Ipswich area to blame for some of this unwelcome message it’ seems. Thought you’d appreciate some local input. As you said you were unaware of any abuse.
https://fanbanter.co.uk/born-in-the-uk-youll-never-sing-that-ipswich-fans-taunt-luton-with-racist-chants/
https://www.eadt.co.uk/news/brexit-vote-unleashed-a-pandora-s-box-of-racist-bile-2276540
And this MP next town to yours just emboldens the racists in the region.
https://www.gazette-news.co.uk/news/17758823.letter-brexit-debate-emboldened-bigoted-views/
To give a balance here.
The number of drivers leaving you’re looking for is between 15-20k EU drivers .
I believe we have 20-25k here working today after Brexit.
Covid has meant 30k loss over two years . 25k tests lost but only two thirds pass and not all in transport jobs.
In addition 10k per year retiring.
So in effect the EU nationals account for 30% ish of the problem but not all.
We have had shortages for years but they helped plug the gap. The gap is now bigger than ever but trying to get those who left back is probably too late . We couldn’t afford to lose them but that’s what the industry had been saying for years before brexit.
Between now and 2025 due to ageing workforce the number who will retire is reported to be over 100k. So that’s 25k new drivers we need to stand still never mind the gap today.
Good here isn’t it!
Covid is bad Brexit is stupid and self inflicted.
Our governments incompetence just adds to the issue. "
A couple of articles about someone refusing to see a black doctor and a for sale sign daubed with i dont know what as it didnt say does not have anything to do with brexit you will always get the odd idiot and for you to believe it has caused racism all i can say you must live in a little white english bubble. My next door neighbour is indian the woman the other side is Lithuanian and a polish couple across the road all very nice people and live in harmony.
Football will always be football until it is stamped out and if you think chants at football reflect a nation once again just get out of your bubble and live in the real world then you may understand. |
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By *ackal1Couple
over a year ago
Manchester |
"The employers have been taking advantage of cheap labour from the EU for years.
Tens of thousands of drivers have been forced out of the industry.
That they are no longer being undermined by bad bosses is a cause for celebration among all fair-minded people.
All workers whose position in the labour market was undermined by the EU are now finding themselves in demand and they can demand better treatment and pay.
Bad employers are squealing, cheered on by Remainers who want to see workers under the cosh again.
The government has to stand firm and tell the employers that it is their job, not the governments, to make themselves attractive to workers"
Good please tell me when the government are going to build truck stops, truck parks in industrial estates . Also cutting fuel tax to give the hauliers more cash to pay more .
There has been a shortage of drivers for 30 years plus so why didn’t wages rise ?
Because returns on transport are between 3 and 5% so no money in it. I’m all for drivers making hay so good for them but just don’t complain when prices in the shops rise because that’s the only way it’s going to be paid for.  |
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By *ackal1Couple
over a year ago
Manchester |
"The lorry driver shortage is Europe-wide. Poland is 120,000 lorry drivers short.
Coronavirus has been the major factor causing shortages.
Absolutely correct there has been a shortage for years . Ours was and to a great extent still is being filled by EU migrants . Covid has opened the wound Brexit has added salt.
Poland’s economy is growing rapidly and drivers will move back there as wages rise .
Being unwelcome in the U.K. is a persuasive argument to leave. Who was made unwelcome in the uk? people were offered settled status in the uk just like uk citizens in the eu. If they chose to return it was not because they were not welcome i would guess they were only here either for short term gain or like a lot of people wanted to be near family during the pandemic.
Does anyone have any firm figures on how many hgv drivers left the uk due to brexit alone? as i cant find any.Would the world wide shortage (yes its not just the uk) have more to do with the pandemic than brexit as i cant for the life of me see how shortages of drivers in the USA for example has been because of brexit.
People of the Ipswich area to blame for some of this unwelcome message it’ seems. Thought you’d appreciate some local input. As you said you were unaware of any abuse.
https://fanbanter.co.uk/born-in-the-uk-youll-never-sing-that-ipswich-fans-taunt-luton-with-racist-chants/
https://www.eadt.co.uk/news/brexit-vote-unleashed-a-pandora-s-box-of-racist-bile-2276540
And this MP next town to yours just emboldens the racists in the region.
https://www.gazette-news.co.uk/news/17758823.letter-brexit-debate-emboldened-bigoted-views/
To give a balance here.
The number of drivers leaving you’re looking for is between 15-20k EU drivers .
I believe we have 20-25k here working today after Brexit.
Covid has meant 30k loss over two years . 25k tests lost but only two thirds pass and not all in transport jobs.
In addition 10k per year retiring.
So in effect the EU nationals account for 30% ish of the problem but not all.
We have had shortages for years but they helped plug the gap. The gap is now bigger than ever but trying to get those who left back is probably too late . We couldn’t afford to lose them but that’s what the industry had been saying for years before brexit.
Between now and 2025 due to ageing workforce the number who will retire is reported to be over 100k. So that’s 25k new drivers we need to stand still never mind the gap today.
Good here isn’t it!
Covid is bad Brexit is stupid and self inflicted.
Our governments incompetence just adds to the issue. A couple of articles about someone refusing to see a black doctor and a for sale sign daubed with i dont know what as it didnt say does not have anything to do with brexit you will always get the odd idiot and for you to believe it has caused racism all i can say you must live in a little white english bubble. My next door neighbour is indian the woman the other side is Lithuanian and a polish couple across the road all very nice people and live in harmony.
Football will always be football until it is stamped out and if you think chants at football reflect a nation once again just get out of your bubble and live in the real world then you may understand."
Glad you have nice neighbours
No bubble for me as racism is rife across the country fed by the disgusting media blaming immigrants for everything.
Still it shows that the fact they have been made unwelcome across the country is just that .. a fact, although not your neighbours blatantly. |
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"The lorry driver shortage is Europe-wide. Poland is 120,000 lorry drivers short.
Coronavirus has been the major factor causing shortages.
Absolutely correct there has been a shortage for years . Ours was and to a great extent still is being filled by EU migrants . Covid has opened the wound Brexit has added salt.
Poland’s economy is growing rapidly and drivers will move back there as wages rise .
Being unwelcome in the U.K. is a persuasive argument to leave. Who was made unwelcome in the uk? people were offered settled status in the uk just like uk citizens in the eu. If they chose to return it was not because they were not welcome i would guess they were only here either for short term gain or like a lot of people wanted to be near family during the pandemic.
Does anyone have any firm figures on how many hgv drivers left the uk due to brexit alone? as i cant find any.Would the world wide shortage (yes its not just the uk) have more to do with the pandemic than brexit as i cant for the life of me see how shortages of drivers in the USA for example has been because of brexit.
People of the Ipswich area to blame for some of this unwelcome message it’ seems. Thought you’d appreciate some local input. As you said you were unaware of any abuse.
https://fanbanter.co.uk/born-in-the-uk-youll-never-sing-that-ipswich-fans-taunt-luton-with-racist-chants/
https://www.eadt.co.uk/news/brexit-vote-unleashed-a-pandora-s-box-of-racist-bile-2276540
And this MP next town to yours just emboldens the racists in the region.
https://www.gazette-news.co.uk/news/17758823.letter-brexit-debate-emboldened-bigoted-views/
To give a balance here.
The number of drivers leaving you’re looking for is between 15-20k EU drivers .
I believe we have 20-25k here working today after Brexit.
Covid has meant 30k loss over two years . 25k tests lost but only two thirds pass and not all in transport jobs.
In addition 10k per year retiring.
So in effect the EU nationals account for 30% ish of the problem but not all.
We have had shortages for years but they helped plug the gap. The gap is now bigger than ever but trying to get those who left back is probably too late . We couldn’t afford to lose them but that’s what the industry had been saying for years before brexit.
Between now and 2025 due to ageing workforce the number who will retire is reported to be over 100k. So that’s 25k new drivers we need to stand still never mind the gap today.
Good here isn’t it!
Covid is bad Brexit is stupid and self inflicted.
Our governments incompetence just adds to the issue. A couple of articles about someone refusing to see a black doctor and a for sale sign daubed with i dont know what as it didnt say does not have anything to do with brexit you will always get the odd idiot and for you to believe it has caused racism all i can say you must live in a little white english bubble. My next door neighbour is indian the woman the other side is Lithuanian and a polish couple across the road all very nice people and live in harmony.
Football will always be football until it is stamped out and if you think chants at football reflect a nation once again just get out of your bubble and live in the real world then you may understand.
Glad you have nice neighbours
No bubble for me as racism is rife across the country fed by the disgusting media blaming immigrants for everything.
Still it shows that the fact they have been made unwelcome across the country is just that .. a fact, although not your neighbours blatantly. "
No bubble so are your neighbours racially abused or do they feel unwelcome because of brexit? |
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"The lorry driver shortage is Europe-wide. Poland is 120,000 lorry drivers short.
Coronavirus has been the major factor causing shortages.
Absolutely correct there has been a shortage for years . Ours was and to a great extent still is being filled by EU migrants . Covid has opened the wound Brexit has added salt.
Poland’s economy is growing rapidly and drivers will move back there as wages rise .
Being unwelcome in the U.K. is a persuasive argument to leave. Who was made unwelcome in the uk? people were offered settled status in the uk just like uk citizens in the eu. If they chose to return it was not because they were not welcome i would guess they were only here either for short term gain or like a lot of people wanted to be near family during the pandemic.
Does anyone have any firm figures on how many hgv drivers left the uk due to brexit alone? as i cant find any.Would the world wide shortage (yes its not just the uk) have more to do with the pandemic than brexit as i cant for the life of me see how shortages of drivers in the USA for example has been because of brexit.
People of the Ipswich area to blame for some of this unwelcome message it’ seems. Thought you’d appreciate some local input. As you said you were unaware of any abuse.
https://fanbanter.co.uk/born-in-the-uk-youll-never-sing-that-ipswich-fans-taunt-luton-with-racist-chants/
https://www.eadt.co.uk/news/brexit-vote-unleashed-a-pandora-s-box-of-racist-bile-2276540
And this MP next town to yours just emboldens the racists in the region.
https://www.gazette-news.co.uk/news/17758823.letter-brexit-debate-emboldened-bigoted-views/
To give a balance here.
The number of drivers leaving you’re looking for is between 15-20k EU drivers .
I believe we have 20-25k here working today after Brexit.
Covid has meant 30k loss over two years . 25k tests lost but only two thirds pass and not all in transport jobs.
In addition 10k per year retiring.
So in effect the EU nationals account for 30% ish of the problem but not all.
We have had shortages for years but they helped plug the gap. The gap is now bigger than ever but trying to get those who left back is probably too late . We couldn’t afford to lose them but that’s what the industry had been saying for years before brexit.
Between now and 2025 due to ageing workforce the number who will retire is reported to be over 100k. So that’s 25k new drivers we need to stand still never mind the gap today.
Good here isn’t it!
Covid is bad Brexit is stupid and self inflicted.
Our governments incompetence just adds to the issue.
How do you think other non-eu countries recruit staff?
And no, this whole issue has nothing to do with racism"
Mainly they have an economy and a jobs market that has evolved over time and is more or less stable. Situations change, events occur, that produce disturbances to their economies and job markets, but these are mostly things that they can wobble their way through.
By contrast we took a sledgehammer to the entire edifice that had evolved during nearly 50 years of being in the common market and then EU. There was no hope of a smooth transition because of the government pandering to the brexit movement and refusing to accept that there could possibly be any problems. Actually refusing to prepare for the fact that you are sawing your own legs off makes it an absolute certainty that you will fall on the floor...
[Everything of course made worse by the pandemic - which was already in progress and the seriousness of it totally known for 8 months before brexit finalisation day. The government absolutely cannot say "brexit would have worked if not for the pandemic", as right up until December 31st 2020 the EU was offering to pause the process - all it would have taken is a political climb down and Johnson looking stupid.] |
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By *estivalMan
over a year ago
borehamwood |
"How should they help the economy more?
quite simply by stopping implementing their programme of hugely damaging idealogical policies and reversing the woefully cataclysmic policies that have had such a destructive effect on the country.
Can you be more specific?"
of course he cant |
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By *ackal1Couple
over a year ago
Manchester |
"The lorry driver shortage is Europe-wide. Poland is 120,000 lorry drivers short.
Coronavirus has been the major factor causing shortages.
Absolutely correct there has been a shortage for years . Ours was and to a great extent still is being filled by EU migrants . Covid has opened the wound Brexit has added salt.
Poland’s economy is growing rapidly and drivers will move back there as wages rise .
Being unwelcome in the U.K. is a persuasive argument to leave. Who was made unwelcome in the uk? people were offered settled status in the uk just like uk citizens in the eu. If they chose to return it was not because they were not welcome i would guess they were only here either for short term gain or like a lot of people wanted to be near family during the pandemic.
Does anyone have any firm figures on how many hgv drivers left the uk due to brexit alone? as i cant find any.Would the world wide shortage (yes its not just the uk) have more to do with the pandemic than brexit as i cant for the life of me see how shortages of drivers in the USA for example has been because of brexit.
People of the Ipswich area to blame for some of this unwelcome message it’ seems. Thought you’d appreciate some local input. As you said you were unaware of any abuse.
https://fanbanter.co.uk/born-in-the-uk-youll-never-sing-that-ipswich-fans-taunt-luton-with-racist-chants/
https://www.eadt.co.uk/news/brexit-vote-unleashed-a-pandora-s-box-of-racist-bile-2276540
And this MP next town to yours just emboldens the racists in the region.
https://www.gazette-news.co.uk/news/17758823.letter-brexit-debate-emboldened-bigoted-views/
To give a balance here.
The number of drivers leaving you’re looking for is between 15-20k EU drivers .
I believe we have 20-25k here working today after Brexit.
Covid has meant 30k loss over two years . 25k tests lost but only two thirds pass and not all in transport jobs.
In addition 10k per year retiring.
So in effect the EU nationals account for 30% ish of the problem but not all.
We have had shortages for years but they helped plug the gap. The gap is now bigger than ever but trying to get those who left back is probably too late . We couldn’t afford to lose them but that’s what the industry had been saying for years before brexit.
Between now and 2025 due to ageing workforce the number who will retire is reported to be over 100k. So that’s 25k new drivers we need to stand still never mind the gap today.
Good here isn’t it!
Covid is bad Brexit is stupid and self inflicted.
Our governments incompetence just adds to the issue. A couple of articles about someone refusing to see a black doctor and a for sale sign daubed with i dont know what as it didnt say does not have anything to do with brexit you will always get the odd idiot and for you to believe it has caused racism all i can say you must live in a little white english bubble. My next door neighbour is indian the woman the other side is Lithuanian and a polish couple across the road all very nice people and live in harmony.
Football will always be football until it is stamped out and if you think chants at football reflect a nation once again just get out of your bubble and live in the real world then you may understand.
Glad you have nice neighbours
No bubble for me as racism is rife across the country fed by the disgusting media blaming immigrants for everything.
Still it shows that the fact they have been made unwelcome across the country is just that .. a fact, although not your neighbours blatantly. No bubble so are your neighbours racially abused or do they feel unwelcome because of brexit?"
Interesting how one search brought up three references for abuse on the first page of Google.
Spend 20 mins and I’m sure there will be lots more.
Both my neighbours are retired white British so don’t think it applies, however I employed my first EU nationals thirty years ago who were from Lithuania (HGV drivers) and since employed many Polish workers in the U.K.. Some (though not all) report various levels of abuse since Brexit was first mooted.
So no bubble just workers and friends feeling the effect. Another reason I hate what Brexit is doing to this once welcoming country.
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"The lorry driver shortage is Europe-wide. Poland is 120,000 lorry drivers short.
Coronavirus has been the major factor causing shortages.
Absolutely correct there has been a shortage for years . Ours was and to a great extent still is being filled by EU migrants . Covid has opened the wound Brexit has added salt.
Poland’s economy is growing rapidly and drivers will move back there as wages rise .
Being unwelcome in the U.K. is a persuasive argument to leave. Who was made unwelcome in the uk? people were offered settled status in the uk just like uk citizens in the eu. If they chose to return it was not because they were not welcome i would guess they were only here either for short term gain or like a lot of people wanted to be near family during the pandemic.
Does anyone have any firm figures on how many hgv drivers left the uk due to brexit alone? as i cant find any.Would the world wide shortage (yes its not just the uk) have more to do with the pandemic than brexit as i cant for the life of me see how shortages of drivers in the USA for example has been because of brexit.
People of the Ipswich area to blame for some of this unwelcome message it’ seems. Thought you’d appreciate some local input. As you said you were unaware of any abuse.
https://fanbanter.co.uk/born-in-the-uk-youll-never-sing-that-ipswich-fans-taunt-luton-with-racist-chants/
https://www.eadt.co.uk/news/brexit-vote-unleashed-a-pandora-s-box-of-racist-bile-2276540
And this MP next town to yours just emboldens the racists in the region.
https://www.gazette-news.co.uk/news/17758823.letter-brexit-debate-emboldened-bigoted-views/
To give a balance here.
The number of drivers leaving you’re looking for is between 15-20k EU drivers .
I believe we have 20-25k here working today after Brexit.
Covid has meant 30k loss over two years . 25k tests lost but only two thirds pass and not all in transport jobs.
In addition 10k per year retiring.
So in effect the EU nationals account for 30% ish of the problem but not all.
We have had shortages for years but they helped plug the gap. The gap is now bigger than ever but trying to get those who left back is probably too late . We couldn’t afford to lose them but that’s what the industry had been saying for years before brexit.
Between now and 2025 due to ageing workforce the number who will retire is reported to be over 100k. So that’s 25k new drivers we need to stand still never mind the gap today.
Good here isn’t it!
Covid is bad Brexit is stupid and self inflicted.
Our governments incompetence just adds to the issue. A couple of articles about someone refusing to see a black doctor and a for sale sign daubed with i dont know what as it didnt say does not have anything to do with brexit you will always get the odd idiot and for you to believe it has caused racism all i can say you must live in a little white english bubble. My next door neighbour is indian the woman the other side is Lithuanian and a polish couple across the road all very nice people and live in harmony.
Football will always be football until it is stamped out and if you think chants at football reflect a nation once again just get out of your bubble and live in the real world then you may understand.
Glad you have nice neighbours
No bubble for me as racism is rife across the country fed by the disgusting media blaming immigrants for everything.
Still it shows that the fact they have been made unwelcome across the country is just that .. a fact, although not your neighbours blatantly. No bubble so are your neighbours racially abused or do they feel unwelcome because of brexit?
Interesting how one search brought up three references for abuse on the first page of Google.
Spend 20 mins and I’m sure there will be lots more.
Both my neighbours are retired white British so don’t think it applies, however I employed my first EU nationals thirty years ago who were from Lithuania (HGV drivers) and since employed many Polish workers in the U.K.. Some (though not all) report various levels of abuse since Brexit was first mooted.
So no bubble just workers and friends feeling the effect. Another reason I hate what Brexit is doing to this once welcoming country.
"
So you are part of the problem then why not train up workers instead of importing labour to keep wages down i can see why you want to blame the government now. |
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By *ackal1Couple
over a year ago
Manchester |
"The lorry driver shortage is Europe-wide. Poland is 120,000 lorry drivers short.
Coronavirus has been the major factor causing shortages.
Absolutely correct there has been a shortage for years . Ours was and to a great extent still is being filled by EU migrants . Covid has opened the wound Brexit has added salt.
Poland’s economy is growing rapidly and drivers will move back there as wages rise .
Being unwelcome in the U.K. is a persuasive argument to leave. Who was made unwelcome in the uk? people were offered settled status in the uk just like uk citizens in the eu. If they chose to return it was not because they were not welcome i would guess they were only here either for short term gain or like a lot of people wanted to be near family during the pandemic.
Does anyone have any firm figures on how many hgv drivers left the uk due to brexit alone? as i cant find any.Would the world wide shortage (yes its not just the uk) have more to do with the pandemic than brexit as i cant for the life of me see how shortages of drivers in the USA for example has been because of brexit.
People of the Ipswich area to blame for some of this unwelcome message it’ seems. Thought you’d appreciate some local input. As you said you were unaware of any abuse.
https://fanbanter.co.uk/born-in-the-uk-youll-never-sing-that-ipswich-fans-taunt-luton-with-racist-chants/
https://www.eadt.co.uk/news/brexit-vote-unleashed-a-pandora-s-box-of-racist-bile-2276540
And this MP next town to yours just emboldens the racists in the region.
https://www.gazette-news.co.uk/news/17758823.letter-brexit-debate-emboldened-bigoted-views/
To give a balance here.
The number of drivers leaving you’re looking for is between 15-20k EU drivers .
I believe we have 20-25k here working today after Brexit.
Covid has meant 30k loss over two years . 25k tests lost but only two thirds pass and not all in transport jobs.
In addition 10k per year retiring.
So in effect the EU nationals account for 30% ish of the problem but not all.
We have had shortages for years but they helped plug the gap. The gap is now bigger than ever but trying to get those who left back is probably too late . We couldn’t afford to lose them but that’s what the industry had been saying for years before brexit.
Between now and 2025 due to ageing workforce the number who will retire is reported to be over 100k. So that’s 25k new drivers we need to stand still never mind the gap today.
Good here isn’t it!
Covid is bad Brexit is stupid and self inflicted.
Our governments incompetence just adds to the issue. A couple of articles about someone refusing to see a black doctor and a for sale sign daubed with i dont know what as it didnt say does not have anything to do with brexit you will always get the odd idiot and for you to believe it has caused racism all i can say you must live in a little white english bubble. My next door neighbour is indian the woman the other side is Lithuanian and a polish couple across the road all very nice people and live in harmony.
Football will always be football until it is stamped out and if you think chants at football reflect a nation once again just get out of your bubble and live in the real world then you may understand.
Glad you have nice neighbours
No bubble for me as racism is rife across the country fed by the disgusting media blaming immigrants for everything.
Still it shows that the fact they have been made unwelcome across the country is just that .. a fact, although not your neighbours blatantly. No bubble so are your neighbours racially abused or do they feel unwelcome because of brexit?
Interesting how one search brought up three references for abuse on the first page of Google.
Spend 20 mins and I’m sure there will be lots more.
Both my neighbours are retired white British so don’t think it applies, however I employed my first EU nationals thirty years ago who were from Lithuania (HGV drivers) and since employed many Polish workers in the U.K.. Some (though not all) report various levels of abuse since Brexit was first mooted.
So no bubble just workers and friends feeling the effect. Another reason I hate what Brexit is doing to this once welcoming country.
So you are part of the problem then why not train up workers instead of importing labour to keep wages down i can see why you want to blame the government now. "
No Costa I am not part of the problem as I sold the business many years ago so please stop with the insulting accusations.
Interesting you say training as we did have a training scheme with drivers starting on rigid trucks and showing their ability to work . We would then sponsor their training and test costs to have them lifted up to the class one trucks. All U.K. workers so you are wrong.
The Lithuanian drivers came into play as we couldn’t find enough U.K. drivers to employ or train. We paid the top going rate and eventually had a waiting list but not because of pay but because we treated them well. Go figure !!
Interestingly the unions were on our side employing foreign workers as it gave the business stability and ability to grow. They vetted the wages so no cheap labour issues. Yes union has access to the company accounts so knew what we could afford.
We couldn’t employ anyone under 25 due to insurance restrictions. This in itself was an issue as most people by 25 have chosen a career.
Whilst Covid is partly to blame Brexit voters are also part of the problem. Think that’s you !
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By *drianukMan
over a year ago
Spain, Lancs |
"The employers have been taking advantage of cheap labour from the EU for years.
Tens of thousands of drivers have been forced out of the industry.
That they are no longer being undermined by bad bosses is a cause for celebration among all fair-minded people.
All workers whose position in the labour market was undermined by the EU are now finding themselves in demand and they can demand better treatment and pay.
Bad employers are squealing, cheered on by Remainers who want to see workers under the cosh again.
The government has to stand firm and tell the employers that it is their job, not the governments, to make themselves attractive to workers
Good please tell me when the government are going to build truck stops, truck parks in industrial estates . Also cutting fuel tax to give the hauliers more cash to pay more .
There has been a shortage of drivers for 30 years plus so why didn’t wages rise ?
Because returns on transport are between 3 and 5% so no money in it. I’m all for drivers making hay so good for them but just don’t complain when prices in the shops rise because that’s the only way it’s going to be paid for. "
You're confusing a number of issues. For example there is no need for the government to cut diesel tax so that bad employers can increase wages. The employers should just pay more. C'est tout. Why should they need government help to do so? It is up to the employer, not the government, to make themselves sufficiently attractive to workers.
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By *drianukMan
over a year ago
Spain, Lancs |
"The lorry driver shortage is Europe-wide. Poland is 120,000 lorry drivers short.
Coronavirus has been the major factor causing shortages.
Absolutely correct there has been a shortage for years . Ours was and to a great extent still is being filled by EU migrants . Covid has opened the wound Brexit has added salt.
Poland’s economy is growing rapidly and drivers will move back there as wages rise .
Being unwelcome in the U.K. is a persuasive argument to leave. Who was made unwelcome in the uk? people were offered settled status in the uk just like uk citizens in the eu. If they chose to return it was not because they were not welcome i would guess they were only here either for short term gain or like a lot of people wanted to be near family during the pandemic.
Does anyone have any firm figures on how many hgv drivers left the uk due to brexit alone? as i cant find any.Would the world wide shortage (yes its not just the uk) have more to do with the pandemic than brexit as i cant for the life of me see how shortages of drivers in the USA for example has been because of brexit.
People of the Ipswich area to blame for some of this unwelcome message it’ seems. Thought you’d appreciate some local input. As you said you were unaware of any abuse.
https://fanbanter.co.uk/born-in-the-uk-youll-never-sing-that-ipswich-fans-taunt-luton-with-racist-chants/
https://www.eadt.co.uk/news/brexit-vote-unleashed-a-pandora-s-box-of-racist-bile-2276540
And this MP next town to yours just emboldens the racists in the region.
https://www.gazette-news.co.uk/news/17758823.letter-brexit-debate-emboldened-bigoted-views/
To give a balance here.
The number of drivers leaving you’re looking for is between 15-20k EU drivers .
I believe we have 20-25k here working today after Brexit.
Covid has meant 30k loss over two years . 25k tests lost but only two thirds pass and not all in transport jobs.
In addition 10k per year retiring.
So in effect the EU nationals account for 30% ish of the problem but not all.
We have had shortages for years but they helped plug the gap. The gap is now bigger than ever but trying to get those who left back is probably too late . We couldn’t afford to lose them but that’s what the industry had been saying for years before brexit.
Between now and 2025 due to ageing workforce the number who will retire is reported to be over 100k. So that’s 25k new drivers we need to stand still never mind the gap today.
Good here isn’t it!
Covid is bad Brexit is stupid and self inflicted.
Our governments incompetence just adds to the issue. A couple of articles about someone refusing to see a black doctor and a for sale sign daubed with i dont know what as it didnt say does not have anything to do with brexit you will always get the odd idiot and for you to believe it has caused racism all i can say you must live in a little white english bubble. My next door neighbour is indian the woman the other side is Lithuanian and a polish couple across the road all very nice people and live in harmony.
Football will always be football until it is stamped out and if you think chants at football reflect a nation once again just get out of your bubble and live in the real world then you may understand.
Glad you have nice neighbours
No bubble for me as racism is rife across the country fed by the disgusting media blaming immigrants for everything.
Still it shows that the fact they have been made unwelcome across the country is just that .. a fact, although not your neighbours blatantly. No bubble so are your neighbours racially abused or do they feel unwelcome because of brexit?
Interesting how one search brought up three references for abuse on the first page of Google.
Spend 20 mins and I’m sure there will be lots more.
Both my neighbours are retired white British so don’t think it applies, however I employed my first EU nationals thirty years ago who were from Lithuania (HGV drivers) and since employed many Polish workers in the U.K.. Some (though not all) report various levels of abuse since Brexit was first mooted.
So no bubble just workers and friends feeling the effect. Another reason I hate what Brexit is doing to this once welcoming country.
So you are part of the problem then why not train up workers instead of importing labour to keep wages down i can see why you want to blame the government now.
No Costa I am not part of the problem as I sold the business many years ago so please stop with the insulting accusations.
Interesting you say training as we did have a training scheme with drivers starting on rigid trucks and showing their ability to work . We would then sponsor their training and test costs to have them lifted up to the class one trucks. All U.K. workers so you are wrong.
The Lithuanian drivers came into play as we couldn’t find enough U.K. drivers to employ or train. We paid the top going rate and eventually had a waiting list but not because of pay but because we treated them well. Go figure !!
Interestingly the unions were on our side employing foreign workers as it gave the business stability and ability to grow. They vetted the wages so no cheap labour issues. Yes union has access to the company accounts so knew what we could afford.
We couldn’t employ anyone under 25 due to insurance restrictions. This in itself was an issue as most people by 25 have chosen a career.
Whilst Covid is partly to blame Brexit voters are also part of the problem. Think that’s you !
"
The Brexit voters have brought about the end of the EU's free movement which brought downward pressure on wages and brought the current situation about.
We are now seeing higher wages...an economic signal that will result in increased recruitment. Would you rather that we didn't address flooded labour markets?
Good luck at the next election arguing that workers pay should be reduced |
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|
By *ackal1Couple
over a year ago
Manchester |
"The employers have been taking advantage of cheap labour from the EU for years.
Tens of thousands of drivers have been forced out of the industry.
That they are no longer being undermined by bad bosses is a cause for celebration among all fair-minded people.
All workers whose position in the labour market was undermined by the EU are now finding themselves in demand and they can demand better treatment and pay.
Bad employers are squealing, cheered on by Remainers who want to see workers under the cosh again.
The government has to stand firm and tell the employers that it is their job, not the governments, to make themselves attractive to workers
Good please tell me when the government are going to build truck stops, truck parks in industrial estates . Also cutting fuel tax to give the hauliers more cash to pay more .
There has been a shortage of drivers for 30 years plus so why didn’t wages rise ?
Because returns on transport are between 3 and 5% so no money in it. I’m all for drivers making hay so good for them but just don’t complain when prices in the shops rise because that’s the only way it’s going to be paid for.
You're confusing a number of issues. For example there is no need for the government to cut diesel tax so that bad employers can increase wages. The employers should just pay more. C'est tout. Why should they need government help to do so? It is up to the employer, not the government, to make themselves sufficiently attractive to workers.
"
You’re just confused Adrian
Pay more with what exactly?? Please explain the mechanism with which they pay the drivers more seeing as you believe that’s the issue!
Look into the ROI in logistics and do some research into the ongoing issues made worse by Covid and Brexit.
The main reason drivers leave transport is not wages it’s “working conditions” and the way they are treated. Wages are always an issue in all semi skilled jobs. Choosing a career other than driving is the main long term factor which needs addressing. Drivers are treated like shit by this country not their employers (exceptions agreed)
|
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|
By *ackal1Couple
over a year ago
Manchester |
"The lorry driver shortage is Europe-wide. Poland is 120,000 lorry drivers short.
Coronavirus has been the major factor causing shortages.
Absolutely correct there has been a shortage for years . Ours was and to a great extent still is being filled by EU migrants . Covid has opened the wound Brexit has added salt.
Poland’s economy is growing rapidly and drivers will move back there as wages rise .
Being unwelcome in the U.K. is a persuasive argument to leave. Who was made unwelcome in the uk? people were offered settled status in the uk just like uk citizens in the eu. If they chose to return it was not because they were not welcome i would guess they were only here either for short term gain or like a lot of people wanted to be near family during the pandemic.
Does anyone have any firm figures on how many hgv drivers left the uk due to brexit alone? as i cant find any.Would the world wide shortage (yes its not just the uk) have more to do with the pandemic than brexit as i cant for the life of me see how shortages of drivers in the USA for example has been because of brexit.
People of the Ipswich area to blame for some of this unwelcome message it’ seems. Thought you’d appreciate some local input. As you said you were unaware of any abuse.
https://fanbanter.co.uk/born-in-the-uk-youll-never-sing-that-ipswich-fans-taunt-luton-with-racist-chants/
https://www.eadt.co.uk/news/brexit-vote-unleashed-a-pandora-s-box-of-racist-bile-2276540
And this MP next town to yours just emboldens the racists in the region.
https://www.gazette-news.co.uk/news/17758823.letter-brexit-debate-emboldened-bigoted-views/
To give a balance here.
The number of drivers leaving you’re looking for is between 15-20k EU drivers .
I believe we have 20-25k here working today after Brexit.
Covid has meant 30k loss over two years . 25k tests lost but only two thirds pass and not all in transport jobs.
In addition 10k per year retiring.
So in effect the EU nationals account for 30% ish of the problem but not all.
We have had shortages for years but they helped plug the gap. The gap is now bigger than ever but trying to get those who left back is probably too late . We couldn’t afford to lose them but that’s what the industry had been saying for years before brexit.
Between now and 2025 due to ageing workforce the number who will retire is reported to be over 100k. So that’s 25k new drivers we need to stand still never mind the gap today.
Good here isn’t it!
Covid is bad Brexit is stupid and self inflicted.
Our governments incompetence just adds to the issue. A couple of articles about someone refusing to see a black doctor and a for sale sign daubed with i dont know what as it didnt say does not have anything to do with brexit you will always get the odd idiot and for you to believe it has caused racism all i can say you must live in a little white english bubble. My next door neighbour is indian the woman the other side is Lithuanian and a polish couple across the road all very nice people and live in harmony.
Football will always be football until it is stamped out and if you think chants at football reflect a nation once again just get out of your bubble and live in the real world then you may understand.
Glad you have nice neighbours
No bubble for me as racism is rife across the country fed by the disgusting media blaming immigrants for everything.
Still it shows that the fact they have been made unwelcome across the country is just that .. a fact, although not your neighbours blatantly. No bubble so are your neighbours racially abused or do they feel unwelcome because of brexit?
Interesting how one search brought up three references for abuse on the first page of Google.
Spend 20 mins and I’m sure there will be lots more.
Both my neighbours are retired white British so don’t think it applies, however I employed my first EU nationals thirty years ago who were from Lithuania (HGV drivers) and since employed many Polish workers in the U.K.. Some (though not all) report various levels of abuse since Brexit was first mooted.
So no bubble just workers and friends feeling the effect. Another reason I hate what Brexit is doing to this once welcoming country.
So you are part of the problem then why not train up workers instead of importing labour to keep wages down i can see why you want to blame the government now.
No Costa I am not part of the problem as I sold the business many years ago so please stop with the insulting accusations.
Interesting you say training as we did have a training scheme with drivers starting on rigid trucks and showing their ability to work . We would then sponsor their training and test costs to have them lifted up to the class one trucks. All U.K. workers so you are wrong.
The Lithuanian drivers came into play as we couldn’t find enough U.K. drivers to employ or train. We paid the top going rate and eventually had a waiting list but not because of pay but because we treated them well. Go figure !!
Interestingly the unions were on our side employing foreign workers as it gave the business stability and ability to grow. They vetted the wages so no cheap labour issues. Yes union has access to the company accounts so knew what we could afford.
We couldn’t employ anyone under 25 due to insurance restrictions. This in itself was an issue as most people by 25 have chosen a career.
Whilst Covid is partly to blame Brexit voters are also part of the problem. Think that’s you !
The Brexit voters have brought about the end of the EU's free movement which brought downward pressure on wages and brought the current situation about.
We are now seeing higher wages...an economic signal that will result in increased recruitment. Would you rather that we didn't address flooded labour markets?
Good luck at the next election arguing that workers pay should be reduced "
Again explain downward pressure seeing as there has been a 30-40k shortage for years?? Surely that’s upward pressure?? Look up the historic drover shortage facts!!
The rising wages are panic station reactions lead by blue chips poaching drivers which isn’t working either according to Tesco’s Iceland, Amazon etc.
They are paying way over the odds but still vacancies ??
Where are the floods of U.K. drivers?? There 200k plus qualified out there. If the jobs had been poached they would be taking back those jobs surely.. they don’t want the job!!
Wages will rise over time as industry adapts but as I said so will prices. There is no margin for those so called bad employers you keep mentioning.
|
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By *drianukMan
over a year ago
Spain, Lancs |
"The employers have been taking advantage of cheap labour from the EU for years.
Tens of thousands of drivers have been forced out of the industry.
That they are no longer being undermined by bad bosses is a cause for celebration among all fair-minded people.
All workers whose position in the labour market was undermined by the EU are now finding themselves in demand and they can demand better treatment and pay.
Bad employers are squealing, cheered on by Remainers who want to see workers under the cosh again.
The government has to stand firm and tell the employers that it is their job, not the governments, to make themselves attractive to workers
Good please tell me when the government are going to build truck stops, truck parks in industrial estates . Also cutting fuel tax to give the hauliers more cash to pay more .
There has been a shortage of drivers for 30 years plus so why didn’t wages rise ?
Because returns on transport are between 3 and 5% so no money in it. I’m all for drivers making hay so good for them but just don’t complain when prices in the shops rise because that’s the only way it’s going to be paid for.
You're confusing a number of issues. For example there is no need for the government to cut diesel tax so that bad employers can increase wages. The employers should just pay more. C'est tout. Why should they need government help to do so? It is up to the employer, not the government, to make themselves sufficiently attractive to workers.
You’re just confused Adrian
Pay more with what exactly?? Please explain the mechanism with which they pay the drivers more seeing as you believe that’s the issue!
Look into the ROI in logistics and do some research into the ongoing issues made worse by Covid and Brexit.
The main reason drivers leave transport is not wages it’s “working conditions” and the way they are treated. Wages are always an issue in all semi skilled jobs. Choosing a career other than driving is the main long term factor which needs addressing. Drivers are treated like shit by this country not their employers (exceptions agreed)
"
How does an employer pay his workers more? How do you think it has been done in the past?
The employer goes to the bank on the morning of payday.
If he doesn't have enough he has to raise money. This can be by either raising charges to customers or cutting dividends to shareholders.
You're overthinking this! |
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|
By *drianukMan
over a year ago
Spain, Lancs |
"The lorry driver shortage is Europe-wide. Poland is 120,000 lorry drivers short.
Coronavirus has been the major factor causing shortages.
Absolutely correct there has been a shortage for years . Ours was and to a great extent still is being filled by EU migrants . Covid has opened the wound Brexit has added salt.
Poland’s economy is growing rapidly and drivers will move back there as wages rise .
Being unwelcome in the U.K. is a persuasive argument to leave. Who was made unwelcome in the uk? people were offered settled status in the uk just like uk citizens in the eu. If they chose to return it was not because they were not welcome i would guess they were only here either for short term gain or like a lot of people wanted to be near family during the pandemic.
Does anyone have any firm figures on how many hgv drivers left the uk due to brexit alone? as i cant find any.Would the world wide shortage (yes its not just the uk) have more to do with the pandemic than brexit as i cant for the life of me see how shortages of drivers in the USA for example has been because of brexit.
People of the Ipswich area to blame for some of this unwelcome message it’ seems. Thought you’d appreciate some local input. As you said you were unaware of any abuse.
https://fanbanter.co.uk/born-in-the-uk-youll-never-sing-that-ipswich-fans-taunt-luton-with-racist-chants/
https://www.eadt.co.uk/news/brexit-vote-unleashed-a-pandora-s-box-of-racist-bile-2276540
And this MP next town to yours just emboldens the racists in the region.
https://www.gazette-news.co.uk/news/17758823.letter-brexit-debate-emboldened-bigoted-views/
To give a balance here.
The number of drivers leaving you’re looking for is between 15-20k EU drivers .
I believe we have 20-25k here working today after Brexit.
Covid has meant 30k loss over two years . 25k tests lost but only two thirds pass and not all in transport jobs.
In addition 10k per year retiring.
So in effect the EU nationals account for 30% ish of the problem but not all.
We have had shortages for years but they helped plug the gap. The gap is now bigger than ever but trying to get those who left back is probably too late . We couldn’t afford to lose them but that’s what the industry had been saying for years before brexit.
Between now and 2025 due to ageing workforce the number who will retire is reported to be over 100k. So that’s 25k new drivers we need to stand still never mind the gap today.
Good here isn’t it!
Covid is bad Brexit is stupid and self inflicted.
Our governments incompetence just adds to the issue. A couple of articles about someone refusing to see a black doctor and a for sale sign daubed with i dont know what as it didnt say does not have anything to do with brexit you will always get the odd idiot and for you to believe it has caused racism all i can say you must live in a little white english bubble. My next door neighbour is indian the woman the other side is Lithuanian and a polish couple across the road all very nice people and live in harmony.
Football will always be football until it is stamped out and if you think chants at football reflect a nation once again just get out of your bubble and live in the real world then you may understand.
Glad you have nice neighbours
No bubble for me as racism is rife across the country fed by the disgusting media blaming immigrants for everything.
Still it shows that the fact they have been made unwelcome across the country is just that .. a fact, although not your neighbours blatantly. No bubble so are your neighbours racially abused or do they feel unwelcome because of brexit?
Interesting how one search brought up three references for abuse on the first page of Google.
Spend 20 mins and I’m sure there will be lots more.
Both my neighbours are retired white British so don’t think it applies, however I employed my first EU nationals thirty years ago who were from Lithuania (HGV drivers) and since employed many Polish workers in the U.K.. Some (though not all) report various levels of abuse since Brexit was first mooted.
So no bubble just workers and friends feeling the effect. Another reason I hate what Brexit is doing to this once welcoming country.
So you are part of the problem then why not train up workers instead of importing labour to keep wages down i can see why you want to blame the government now.
No Costa I am not part of the problem as I sold the business many years ago so please stop with the insulting accusations.
Interesting you say training as we did have a training scheme with drivers starting on rigid trucks and showing their ability to work . We would then sponsor their training and test costs to have them lifted up to the class one trucks. All U.K. workers so you are wrong.
The Lithuanian drivers came into play as we couldn’t find enough U.K. drivers to employ or train. We paid the top going rate and eventually had a waiting list but not because of pay but because we treated them well. Go figure !!
Interestingly the unions were on our side employing foreign workers as it gave the business stability and ability to grow. They vetted the wages so no cheap labour issues. Yes union has access to the company accounts so knew what we could afford.
We couldn’t employ anyone under 25 due to insurance restrictions. This in itself was an issue as most people by 25 have chosen a career.
Whilst Covid is partly to blame Brexit voters are also part of the problem. Think that’s you !
The Brexit voters have brought about the end of the EU's free movement which brought downward pressure on wages and brought the current situation about.
We are now seeing higher wages...an economic signal that will result in increased recruitment. Would you rather that we didn't address flooded labour markets?
Good luck at the next election arguing that workers pay should be reduced
Again explain downward pressure seeing as there has been a 30-40k shortage for years?? Surely that’s upward pressure?? Look up the historic drover shortage facts!!
The rising wages are panic station reactions lead by blue chips poaching drivers which isn’t working either according to Tesco’s Iceland, Amazon etc.
They are paying way over the odds but still vacancies ??
Where are the floods of U.K. drivers?? There 200k plus qualified out there. If the jobs had been poached they would be taking back those jobs surely.. they don’t want the job!!
Wages will rise over time as industry adapts but as I said so will prices. There is no margin for those so called bad employers you keep mentioning.
"
There has been a shortage of drivers before ..but this has been satisfied by bringing in cheap E European drivers. That has the effect of forcing wages down, not up. Basic economics.
Now, if you want the Remainder parties to go into the next election promising to flood labour markets again... |
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|
By *ackal1Couple
over a year ago
Manchester |
"The employers have been taking advantage of cheap labour from the EU for years.
Tens of thousands of drivers have been forced out of the industry.
That they are no longer being undermined by bad bosses is a cause for celebration among all fair-minded people.
All workers whose position in the labour market was undermined by the EU are now finding themselves in demand and they can demand better treatment and pay.
Bad employers are squealing, cheered on by Remainers who want to see workers under the cosh again.
The government has to stand firm and tell the employers that it is their job, not the governments, to make themselves attractive to workers
Good please tell me when the government are going to build truck stops, truck parks in industrial estates . Also cutting fuel tax to give the hauliers more cash to pay more .
There has been a shortage of drivers for 30 years plus so why didn’t wages rise ?
Because returns on transport are between 3 and 5% so no money in it. I’m all for drivers making hay so good for them but just don’t complain when prices in the shops rise because that’s the only way it’s going to be paid for.
You're confusing a number of issues. For example there is no need for the government to cut diesel tax so that bad employers can increase wages. The employers should just pay more. C'est tout. Why should they need government help to do so? It is up to the employer, not the government, to make themselves sufficiently attractive to workers.
You’re just confused Adrian
Pay more with what exactly?? Please explain the mechanism with which they pay the drivers more seeing as you believe that’s the issue!
Look into the ROI in logistics and do some research into the ongoing issues made worse by Covid and Brexit.
The main reason drivers leave transport is not wages it’s “working conditions” and the way they are treated. Wages are always an issue in all semi skilled jobs. Choosing a career other than driving is the main long term factor which needs addressing. Drivers are treated like shit by this country not their employers (exceptions agreed)
How does an employer pay his workers more? How do you think it has been done in the past?
The employer goes to the bank on the morning of payday.
If he doesn't have enough he has to raise money. This can be by either raising charges to customers or cutting dividends to shareholders.
You're overthinking this!"
You don’t understand the industry your claim to know so much about.
|
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|
By *ackal1Couple
over a year ago
Manchester |
"The lorry driver shortage is Europe-wide. Poland is 120,000 lorry drivers short.
Coronavirus has been the major factor causing shortages.
Absolutely correct there has been a shortage for years . Ours was and to a great extent still is being filled by EU migrants . Covid has opened the wound Brexit has added salt.
Poland’s economy is growing rapidly and drivers will move back there as wages rise .
Being unwelcome in the U.K. is a persuasive argument to leave. Who was made unwelcome in the uk? people were offered settled status in the uk just like uk citizens in the eu. If they chose to return it was not because they were not welcome i would guess they were only here either for short term gain or like a lot of people wanted to be near family during the pandemic.
Does anyone have any firm figures on how many hgv drivers left the uk due to brexit alone? as i cant find any.Would the world wide shortage (yes its not just the uk) have more to do with the pandemic than brexit as i cant for the life of me see how shortages of drivers in the USA for example has been because of brexit.
People of the Ipswich area to blame for some of this unwelcome message it’ seems. Thought you’d appreciate some local input. As you said you were unaware of any abuse.
https://fanbanter.co.uk/born-in-the-uk-youll-never-sing-that-ipswich-fans-taunt-luton-with-racist-chants/
https://www.eadt.co.uk/news/brexit-vote-unleashed-a-pandora-s-box-of-racist-bile-2276540
And this MP next town to yours just emboldens the racists in the region.
https://www.gazette-news.co.uk/news/17758823.letter-brexit-debate-emboldened-bigoted-views/
To give a balance here.
The number of drivers leaving you’re looking for is between 15-20k EU drivers .
I believe we have 20-25k here working today after Brexit.
Covid has meant 30k loss over two years . 25k tests lost but only two thirds pass and not all in transport jobs.
In addition 10k per year retiring.
So in effect the EU nationals account for 30% ish of the problem but not all.
We have had shortages for years but they helped plug the gap. The gap is now bigger than ever but trying to get those who left back is probably too late . We couldn’t afford to lose them but that’s what the industry had been saying for years before brexit.
Between now and 2025 due to ageing workforce the number who will retire is reported to be over 100k. So that’s 25k new drivers we need to stand still never mind the gap today.
Good here isn’t it!
Covid is bad Brexit is stupid and self inflicted.
Our governments incompetence just adds to the issue. A couple of articles about someone refusing to see a black doctor and a for sale sign daubed with i dont know what as it didnt say does not have anything to do with brexit you will always get the odd idiot and for you to believe it has caused racism all i can say you must live in a little white english bubble. My next door neighbour is indian the woman the other side is Lithuanian and a polish couple across the road all very nice people and live in harmony.
Football will always be football until it is stamped out and if you think chants at football reflect a nation once again just get out of your bubble and live in the real world then you may understand.
Glad you have nice neighbours
No bubble for me as racism is rife across the country fed by the disgusting media blaming immigrants for everything.
Still it shows that the fact they have been made unwelcome across the country is just that .. a fact, although not your neighbours blatantly. No bubble so are your neighbours racially abused or do they feel unwelcome because of brexit?
Interesting how one search brought up three references for abuse on the first page of Google.
Spend 20 mins and I’m sure there will be lots more.
Both my neighbours are retired white British so don’t think it applies, however I employed my first EU nationals thirty years ago who were from Lithuania (HGV drivers) and since employed many Polish workers in the U.K.. Some (though not all) report various levels of abuse since Brexit was first mooted.
So no bubble just workers and friends feeling the effect. Another reason I hate what Brexit is doing to this once welcoming country.
So you are part of the problem then why not train up workers instead of importing labour to keep wages down i can see why you want to blame the government now.
No Costa I am not part of the problem as I sold the business many years ago so please stop with the insulting accusations.
Interesting you say training as we did have a training scheme with drivers starting on rigid trucks and showing their ability to work . We would then sponsor their training and test costs to have them lifted up to the class one trucks. All U.K. workers so you are wrong.
The Lithuanian drivers came into play as we couldn’t find enough U.K. drivers to employ or train. We paid the top going rate and eventually had a waiting list but not because of pay but because we treated them well. Go figure !!
Interestingly the unions were on our side employing foreign workers as it gave the business stability and ability to grow. They vetted the wages so no cheap labour issues. Yes union has access to the company accounts so knew what we could afford.
We couldn’t employ anyone under 25 due to insurance restrictions. This in itself was an issue as most people by 25 have chosen a career.
Whilst Covid is partly to blame Brexit voters are also part of the problem. Think that’s you !
The Brexit voters have brought about the end of the EU's free movement which brought downward pressure on wages and brought the current situation about.
We are now seeing higher wages...an economic signal that will result in increased recruitment. Would you rather that we didn't address flooded labour markets?
Good luck at the next election arguing that workers pay should be reduced
Again explain downward pressure seeing as there has been a 30-40k shortage for years?? Surely that’s upward pressure?? Look up the historic drover shortage facts!!
The rising wages are panic station reactions lead by blue chips poaching drivers which isn’t working either according to Tesco’s Iceland, Amazon etc.
They are paying way over the odds but still vacancies ??
Where are the floods of U.K. drivers?? There 200k plus qualified out there. If the jobs had been poached they would be taking back those jobs surely.. they don’t want the job!!
Wages will rise over time as industry adapts but as I said so will prices. There is no margin for those so called bad employers you keep mentioning.
There has been a shortage of drivers before ..but this has been satisfied by bringing in cheap E European drivers. That has the effect of forcing wages down, not up. Basic economics.
Now, if you want the Remainder parties to go into the next election promising to flood labour markets again... "
Shortage should have resulted in wage increase why didn’t it please explain?
30-40k short so lots of chances to bid the wages up. 20 plus Years in fact .
If the money was there then surely wages would have gone up. I ask again why didn’t they??? Come on explain why the economics of the situation didn’t lead to pay rises with such a huge shortage?
You’re not understanding reality and seem to think I’m against the drivers earning more . You are wrong . |
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By *mmmMaybeCouple
over a year ago
West Wales |
"The lorry driver shortage is Europe-wide. Poland is 120,000 lorry drivers short.
Coronavirus has been the major factor causing shortages.
Absolutely correct there has been a shortage for years . Ours was and to a great extent still is being filled by EU migrants . Covid has opened the wound Brexit has added salt.
Poland’s economy is growing rapidly and drivers will move back there as wages rise .
Being unwelcome in the U.K. is a persuasive argument to leave. Who was made unwelcome in the uk? people were offered settled status in the uk just like uk citizens in the eu. If they chose to return it was not because they were not welcome i would guess they were only here either for short term gain or like a lot of people wanted to be near family during the pandemic.
Does anyone have any firm figures on how many hgv drivers left the uk due to brexit alone? as i cant find any.Would the world wide shortage (yes its not just the uk) have more to do with the pandemic than brexit as i cant for the life of me see how shortages of drivers in the USA for example has been because of brexit."
It’s not so much that they left, many were never here. Twenty years ago when I was working in European haulage the E.Europeans would arrive Monday, drop their loads & then do a few days of National movements within the UK for UK companies before reloading on Thursday or Friday to return to the Continent many using custom built oversized fuel tanks so they could do the whole week on cheaper East European fuel, quite an advantage really.
Part of this whole “We won’t let them in” is in fact more “They don’t want to come in” as the Government quiet rightly want them to fill in an IR35 (I think) which means they can be asked to pay UK tax on their earnings made in the UK (Not sure how it works). Something oddly enough pretty few are willing to do.
S |
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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago
North West |
"The lorry driver shortage is Europe-wide. Poland is 120,000 lorry drivers short.
Coronavirus has been the major factor causing shortages.
Absolutely correct there has been a shortage for years . Ours was and to a great extent still is being filled by EU migrants . Covid has opened the wound Brexit has added salt.
Poland’s economy is growing rapidly and drivers will move back there as wages rise .
Being unwelcome in the U.K. is a persuasive argument to leave. Who was made unwelcome in the uk? people were offered settled status in the uk just like uk citizens in the eu. If they chose to return it was not because they were not welcome i would guess they were only here either for short term gain or like a lot of people wanted to be near family during the pandemic.
Does anyone have any firm figures on how many hgv drivers left the uk due to brexit alone? as i cant find any.Would the world wide shortage (yes its not just the uk) have more to do with the pandemic than brexit as i cant for the life of me see how shortages of drivers in the USA for example has been because of brexit.
People of the Ipswich area to blame for some of this unwelcome message it’ seems. Thought you’d appreciate some local input. As you said you were unaware of any abuse.
https://fanbanter.co.uk/born-in-the-uk-youll-never-sing-that-ipswich-fans-taunt-luton-with-racist-chants/
https://www.eadt.co.uk/news/brexit-vote-unleashed-a-pandora-s-box-of-racist-bile-2276540
And this MP next town to yours just emboldens the racists in the region.
https://www.gazette-news.co.uk/news/17758823.letter-brexit-debate-emboldened-bigoted-views/
To give a balance here.
The number of drivers leaving you’re looking for is between 15-20k EU drivers .
I believe we have 20-25k here working today after Brexit.
Covid has meant 30k loss over two years . 25k tests lost but only two thirds pass and not all in transport jobs.
In addition 10k per year retiring.
So in effect the EU nationals account for 30% ish of the problem but not all.
We have had shortages for years but they helped plug the gap. The gap is now bigger than ever but trying to get those who left back is probably too late . We couldn’t afford to lose them but that’s what the industry had been saying for years before brexit.
Between now and 2025 due to ageing workforce the number who will retire is reported to be over 100k. So that’s 25k new drivers we need to stand still never mind the gap today.
Good here isn’t it!
Covid is bad Brexit is stupid and self inflicted.
Our governments incompetence just adds to the issue. A couple of articles about someone refusing to see a black doctor and a for sale sign daubed with i dont know what as it didnt say does not have anything to do with brexit you will always get the odd idiot and for you to believe it has caused racism all i can say you must live in a little white english bubble. My next door neighbour is indian the woman the other side is Lithuanian and a polish couple across the road all very nice people and live in harmony.
Football will always be football until it is stamped out and if you think chants at football reflect a nation once again just get out of your bubble and live in the real world then you may understand.
Glad you have nice neighbours
No bubble for me as racism is rife across the country fed by the disgusting media blaming immigrants for everything.
Still it shows that the fact they have been made unwelcome across the country is just that .. a fact, although not your neighbours blatantly. No bubble so are your neighbours racially abused or do they feel unwelcome because of brexit?
Interesting how one search brought up three references for abuse on the first page of Google.
Spend 20 mins and I’m sure there will be lots more.
Both my neighbours are retired white British so don’t think it applies, however I employed my first EU nationals thirty years ago who were from Lithuania (HGV drivers) and since employed many Polish workers in the U.K.. Some (though not all) report various levels of abuse since Brexit was first mooted.
So no bubble just workers and friends feeling the effect. Another reason I hate what Brexit is doing to this once welcoming country.
So you are part of the problem then why not train up workers instead of importing labour to keep wages down i can see why you want to blame the government now.
No Costa I am not part of the problem as I sold the business many years ago so please stop with the insulting accusations.
Interesting you say training as we did have a training scheme with drivers starting on rigid trucks and showing their ability to work . We would then sponsor their training and test costs to have them lifted up to the class one trucks. All U.K. workers so you are wrong.
The Lithuanian drivers came into play as we couldn’t find enough U.K. drivers to employ or train. We paid the top going rate and eventually had a waiting list but not because of pay but because we treated them well. Go figure !!
Interestingly the unions were on our side employing foreign workers as it gave the business stability and ability to grow. They vetted the wages so no cheap labour issues. Yes union has access to the company accounts so knew what we could afford.
We couldn’t employ anyone under 25 due to insurance restrictions. This in itself was an issue as most people by 25 have chosen a career.
Whilst Covid is partly to blame Brexit voters are also part of the problem. Think that’s you !
The Brexit voters have brought about the end of the EU's free movement which brought downward pressure on wages and brought the current situation about.
We are now seeing higher wages...an economic signal that will result in increased recruitment. Would you rather that we didn't address flooded labour markets?
Good luck at the next election arguing that workers pay should be reduced
Again explain downward pressure seeing as there has been a 30-40k shortage for years?? Surely that’s upward pressure?? Look up the historic drover shortage facts!!
The rising wages are panic station reactions lead by blue chips poaching drivers which isn’t working either according to Tesco’s Iceland, Amazon etc.
They are paying way over the odds but still vacancies ??
Where are the floods of U.K. drivers?? There 200k plus qualified out there. If the jobs had been poached they would be taking back those jobs surely.. they don’t want the job!!
Wages will rise over time as industry adapts but as I said so will prices. There is no margin for those so called bad employers you keep mentioning.
There has been a shortage of drivers before ..but this has been satisfied by bringing in cheap E European drivers. That has the effect of forcing wages down, not up. Basic economics.
Now, if you want the Remainder parties to go into the next election promising to flood labour markets again... "
This post kind of sums up British ignorance - by the way - what is Remainder? Is it a new word?
I will give you another word, this time a real one.
“Cabotage”
When you understand cabotage you might understand why we were never flooded with cheap drivers. Rather we were part of a flexible logistical network that enabled hauliers to “tramp” and maximise load hours.
The U.K. wanted drivers to be taxed in the U.K. for the work that EU drivers did on cabotage - they said no.
The U.K. now wants any EU driver who wants to deliver to the U.K. to now have a full passport instead of the ID card that was required pre-Brexit. They are saying no to this too.
Brexit has consequences. |
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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago
North West |
"The lorry driver shortage is Europe-wide. Poland is 120,000 lorry drivers short.
Coronavirus has been the major factor causing shortages.
Absolutely correct there has been a shortage for years . Ours was and to a great extent still is being filled by EU migrants . Covid has opened the wound Brexit has added salt.
Poland’s economy is growing rapidly and drivers will move back there as wages rise .
Being unwelcome in the U.K. is a persuasive argument to leave. Who was made unwelcome in the uk? people were offered settled status in the uk just like uk citizens in the eu. If they chose to return it was not because they were not welcome i would guess they were only here either for short term gain or like a lot of people wanted to be near family during the pandemic.
Does anyone have any firm figures on how many hgv drivers left the uk due to brexit alone? as i cant find any.Would the world wide shortage (yes its not just the uk) have more to do with the pandemic than brexit as i cant for the life of me see how shortages of drivers in the USA for example has been because of brexit.
It’s not so much that they left, many were never here. Twenty years ago when I was working in European haulage the E.Europeans would arrive Monday, drop their loads & then do a few days of National movements within the UK for UK companies before reloading on Thursday or Friday to return to the Continent many using custom built oversized fuel tanks so they could do the whole week on cheaper East European fuel, quite an advantage really.
Part of this whole “We won’t let them in” is in fact more “They don’t want to come in” as the Government quiet rightly want them to fill in an IR35 (I think) which means they can be asked to pay UK tax on their earnings made in the UK (Not sure how it works). Something oddly enough pretty few are willing to do.
S"
Exactly |
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By *ackal1Couple
over a year ago
Manchester |
"The lorry driver shortage is Europe-wide. Poland is 120,000 lorry drivers short.
Coronavirus has been the major factor causing shortages.
Absolutely correct there has been a shortage for years . Ours was and to a great extent still is being filled by EU migrants . Covid has opened the wound Brexit has added salt.
Poland’s economy is growing rapidly and drivers will move back there as wages rise .
Being unwelcome in the U.K. is a persuasive argument to leave. Who was made unwelcome in the uk? people were offered settled status in the uk just like uk citizens in the eu. If they chose to return it was not because they were not welcome i would guess they were only here either for short term gain or like a lot of people wanted to be near family during the pandemic.
Does anyone have any firm figures on how many hgv drivers left the uk due to brexit alone? as i cant find any.Would the world wide shortage (yes its not just the uk) have more to do with the pandemic than brexit as i cant for the life of me see how shortages of drivers in the USA for example has been because of brexit.
It’s not so much that they left, many were never here. Twenty years ago when I was working in European haulage the E.Europeans would arrive Monday, drop their loads & then do a few days of National movements within the UK for UK companies before reloading on Thursday or Friday to return to the Continent many using custom built oversized fuel tanks so they could do the whole week on cheaper East European fuel, quite an advantage really.
Part of this whole “We won’t let them in” is in fact more “They don’t want to come in” as the Government quiet rightly want them to fill in an IR35 (I think) which means they can be asked to pay UK tax on their earnings made in the UK (Not sure how it works). Something oddly enough pretty few are willing to do.
S"
You’re right about the cabotage but not usually for a full week as they would make more on import loads so it’s a small number and usually repositioning. I competed with these guys on international work so have every reason to bad mouth them but it wasn’t as bad as the rumours suggest. It wasn’t worth the money to stay here for at week and risk no backload.
Cheaper to go home empty and get another import that week,
The IR35 is aimed at drivers or white collar workers claiming to be a business but in effect working for one company.
It’s actually been clamped down on for years in the hgv driver tell so the IR35 is more bluster than substance in that industry . Local tax offices stopped drivers doing this 30 years ago. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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Here's a brief summary of what happened:
Before Brexit: "There are too many foreigners over here taking our jobs!"
After Brexit: "We need more foreigners over here to do jobs for us!"
Ahhhh Brexit. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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(It is rather remarkable seeing some people still pretending our lack of lorry drivers - and all the problems that has brought - has nothing to do with Brexit. If our problems have noting to do with Brexit, why is Johnson reportedly begging for lorry drivers from the EU?) |
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By *mmmMaybeCouple
over a year ago
West Wales |
"(It is rather remarkable seeing some people still pretending our lack of lorry drivers - and all the problems that has brought - has nothing to do with Brexit. If our problems have noting to do with Brexit, why is Johnson reportedly begging for lorry drivers from the EU?)"
Thing is just as Brexiters might say “It’s not Brexit!” Remainders shout up “Ah Brexit, the gift that keeps giving!”
Both ignoring everything, like pretty much a plague curtailing everything & killing a few million people, stopping business, travel etc.
Brexit is part of the whole picture sure, but would we be having this thread if Covid never happened? I don’t think so.
Pretty much a perfect shitstorm, only thing I’d agree with is this Governments handling of it. If you still have truck drivers on the road as “Essential” workers then you don’t allow the DVLA to put tests on hold, you figure out a way for people to get their tests done & their licences.
If they’d had done that a minimum of 10,000 maybe 20,000 people would have got their HGV licences over the last two years.
Although still a shortage I don’t think we’d be seeing the nonsense we are seeing now had they got them.
S |
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We are the laughing stock of Europe. Brexit is a showing to be a great success. Just been on holiday to france shops full and no shortages of anything.
They same have had the covid pandemic but no shortages of anything. So brexit as got to be the main reason for all whats going on. But the brexiters and little Englanders just cant admit that this is the problem. |
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brextremists were warned that scenarios such as this would be the outcome of withdrawl from the EU yet they chose to remain and indeed continue to remain ignorant to the facts that underpinned those warnings. |
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By *estivalMan
over a year ago
borehamwood |
Do you really think they care lol 90% of them havent given brexit a second thought since they ticked that box,moaning about them is pointless its not gona change anything,its happend now and aint being reversed |
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"We are the laughing stock of Europe. Brexit is a showing to be a great success. Just been on holiday to france shops full and no shortages of anything.
They same have had the covid pandemic but no shortages of anything. So brexit as got to be the main reason for all whats going on. But the brexiters and little Englanders just cant admit that this is the problem. "
Well you must of got lucky then because I had issues just last week whilst there with obtaining goods and there are also plenty of reports of shortages of both goods and workers in the French media. |
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By *ovebjsMan
over a year ago
Bristol |
"We are the laughing stock of Europe. Brexit is a showing to be a great success. Just been on holiday to france shops full and no shortages of anything.
They same have had the covid pandemic but no shortages of anything. So brexit as got to be the main reason for all whats going on. But the brexiters and little Englanders just cant admit that this is the problem. "
French shops full of French things ? Who would have thought  |
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By *ovebjsMan
over a year ago
Bristol |
"brextremists were warned that scenarios such as this would be the outcome of withdrawl from the EU yet they chose to remain and indeed continue to remain ignorant to the facts that underpinned those warnings. "
So what you are saying is that the UK should have remained in the EU cartel no matter what ? |
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"Do you really think they care lol 90% of them havent given brexit a second thought since they ticked that box,moaning about them is pointless its not gona change anything,its happend now and aint being reversed"
i question the accuracy of your statistics, but then you clearly care enough to keep posting such comments about the subject in the forums as you have done above on this thread. |
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"We are the laughing stock of Europe. Brexit is a showing to be a great success. Just been on holiday to france shops full and no shortages of anything.
They same have had the covid pandemic but no shortages of anything. So brexit as got to be the main reason for all whats going on. But the brexiters and little Englanders just cant admit that this is the problem.
French shops full of French things ? Who would have thought "
We never buy English prodcts on holiday. Perfer to try different foods etc. |
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By *ovebjsMan
over a year ago
Bristol |
I don’t think there is any country that’s in the EU that’s 100% for it and I’m sure there are people in every member state that don’t want to be in it.
We only ever see the arguments from the UK perspective |
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Just been food shopping. I’m enjoying the taking back control. The empty shelves and having to apply in advance for a bottle of wine reminds me fondly of the control that Communism brought with it.
Fortunately I have people to remind me the very relevant fact that my moaning means I wouldn’t survive in a world war. So I am in fact being conditioned/controlled to die.  |
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"So what you are saying is that the UK should have remained in the EU cartel no matter what ?
no, i am not.
"
i am merely pointing out the factual reality regarding the affect that the willfull ignorance to the warnings issued to leave voters has had on the situation in this country. |
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By *ovebjsMan
over a year ago
Bristol |
"Just been food shopping. I’m enjoying the taking back control. The empty shelves and having to apply in advance for a bottle of wine reminds me fondly of the control that Communism brought with it.
Fortunately I have people to remind me the very relevant fact that my moaning means I wouldn’t survive in a world war. So I am in fact being conditioned/controlled to die. "
I have not encountered any empty shelves in Bristol
And as for the wine it all depends on what you are looking for doesn’t it ?
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By *ovebjsMan
over a year ago
Bristol |
"So what you are saying is that the UK should have remained in the EU cartel no matter what ?
no, i am not.
i am merely pointing out the factual reality regarding the affect that the willfull ignorance to the warnings issued to leave voters has had on the situation in this country. "
Nothing to do with a worldwide pandemic then |
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"Nothing to do with a worldwide pandemic then "
the begging for eu truck drivers to return by our government is clearly an admission that brexit has failed and also clearly shows that the pandemic has had a more marginal effect on the situation that tory nay-sayers are claiming. |
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By *ovebjsMan
over a year ago
Bristol |
"Nothing to do with a worldwide pandemic then
the begging for eu truck drivers to return by our government is clearly an admission that brexit has failed and also clearly shows that the pandemic has had a more marginal effect on the situation that tory nay-sayers are claiming. "
But that’s the way it’s supposed to work, countries offering certain jobs that need filling at times of need just like places that are not in the free movement of people zones.
Try going to somewhere like Australia, New Zealand ect to work and see that you need a working visa
And so it controls the amount of people doing jobs that indigenous people can do |
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"But that’s the way it’s supposed to work, countries offering certain jobs that need filling at times of need just like places that are not in the free movement of people zones.
Try going to somewhere like Australia, New Zealand ect to work and see that you need a working visa
And so it controls the amount of people doing jobs that indigenous people can do "
if this were the actual case then there would be plenty of people from developing countries already filling the 100,000 vacant driving positions. the reality is that there are not and coupled with the fact that the tory government are begging eu drivers to return shows that they have admitted brexit to be a failure. hope this helps |
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"Being reported up here, that one Lincolnshire grower, is offering upto £30p/h for vegetable pickers.
And I bet the unemployed locals will still not do it as they will deem it’s beneath them
Takes a special kind of person to work in a field of wet cabbages, when the cold wind howls in from the Urals! "
I'd do it for that kind of money.
Mind you "Being reported" doesn't mean he actually is.
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By *estivalMan
over a year ago
borehamwood |
"i have noticed in all stores that i have visited that the existing stock is spread more thinly across the shelves and there are far far fewer varities of produce on offer. "
u need to move then mate all the shops round this way are still fully stocked,only empty space ive seen is morrisons and thats only because half a dozen of there freezers have gone tits up |
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By *estivalMan
over a year ago
borehamwood |
"Do you really think they care lol 90% of them havent given brexit a second thought since they ticked that box,moaning about them is pointless its not gona change anything,its happend now and aint being reversed
i question the accuracy of your statistics, but then you clearly care enough to keep posting such comments about the subject in the forums as you have done above on this thread. "
i couldnt givea flying one mate i didnt vote to remain or leave i was one of the cpl of million who couldnt of cared less what the result was,i just going by what the people i know who voted for leave think,they got free movement stopped and thats all they cared about,most of em are now moaning about furlough ending or moaning about there 20 quid a week bonus being taken of there benefits,hey what do you know there is something you and brexiters can agree on |
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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago
Grantham |
"Being reported up here, that one Lincolnshire grower, is offering upto £30p/h for vegetable pickers.
And I bet the unemployed locals will still not do it as they will deem it’s beneath them
Takes a special kind of person to work in a field of wet cabbages, when the cold wind howls in from the Urals!
I'd do it for that kind of money.
Mind you "Being reported" doesn't mean he actually is.
"
The advert is there online. TH Clements at Boston. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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HGV driver numbers has been dwindling for years, royal mail recognised this year's ago.
Also this is the reason why we used to see reports about automated vehicles being trialed on the news every so often.
Yes covid hasn't helped
Yes Brexit hasn't helped
Yes Scotland voted to REMAIN
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By *ovebjsMan
over a year ago
Bristol |
"Being reported up here, that one Lincolnshire grower, is offering upto £30p/h for vegetable pickers.
And I bet the unemployed locals will still not do it as they will deem it’s beneath them
Takes a special kind of person to work in a field of wet cabbages, when the cold wind howls in from the Urals!
I'd do it for that kind of money.
Mind you "Being reported" doesn't mean he actually is.
The advert is there online. TH Clements at Boston. "
So all of a sudden they can afford to pay better money then they have been paying for years then ?
Surely if they were paying good money from the start they would have had had our own people doing the work
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By *mmmMaybeCouple
over a year ago
West Wales |
"Nothing to do with a worldwide pandemic then
the begging for eu truck drivers to return by our government is clearly an admission that brexit has failed and also clearly shows that the pandemic has had a more marginal effect on the situation that tory nay-sayers are claiming. "
That’s a pretty daft statement tbh, the army cannot supply 2,000 drivers let alone 20,000. We’ve lost an estimated 30,000 UK drivers in two years through retirements & lack of tests being run. Where else should theGovernment go to alleviate the immediate situation?
IF the useless Government had made sure tests continued through the pandemic in all likelihood none of this would be happening.
Another thing people are missing is the start of E10, you can’t magic extra pumps & tanks & many smaller stations split their supplies between E5/E10.(small I do runs two diesel & one each of E5/E10 instead of two E5’s. Many are still unsure of E10 so are still filling up with E5 which ran out around here quite quickly. Diesel & E10 never ran out at all.
By the way did you know it was only BP running out of fuel & at only eight stations at first in their entire network, everything else you can blame on MSM & the Sheep.
As far as empty shelves is concerned, well maybe that’s a good thing as now what you are looking at on the shelf you could argue is environmentally sound because it possibly hasn’t had to travel vast distances to get there. Unlike the Soya, Kiwi, Avocado & New Zealand lamb etc. etc.
S
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the 30,000 statistic that you plucked to bolster you arguement, when subtracted from the reported shortfall of 100,000 leaves a remainder of a 70,000 driver shortfall, which are clearly eu drivers. i would agree that one of the benefits of this is to the environment and peoples health by removing many many thousands of the countries most polluting vehicles from our roads. this is clearly a plus point and will hopefully continue. |
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"well your on here whining about brexiters enough so you either voted remain or like me didnt vote,im pretty sure if u voted for brexit you wouldnt be on here moaning about it every day and as for posting on here im a member so free to post on what i like as long as i dont break the rules,or would you prefer it if only those who agree with you could post? And care nah not really i just find it amusing reading posts from people who cant get over the fact that people didnt vote for the status quo,christ if i knew it would of pissed so many people off id have registerd and voted for it myself
you have confused 'whining' and 'moaning', as you so uneloquently put it, with the pointing out of facts. you persist in your ignorance by making claims based on wild surmise about how i voted. you are free to post on any subject you care about; in this instance you care about defending brexit even though you profess to not care or indeed voted. one day maybe you will be able to get over the fact that people are entitled to pass comment on what they like without the need for you feeling that you must attack them for it. i havent posted anything defending brexit i just pointed out most who i know who voted for it lost intrest pretty quick once they got freedom of movement stopped,and u can point out what you like mate it aint gona change a thing,really mate your just gona cause yourself stress if u keep banging on about things you cant change"
pointing out the failure of brexit is by no means attempting to change the outcome, it is merely the truth being spoken to the ignorant. |
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By *mmmMaybeCouple
over a year ago
West Wales |
"the 30,000 statistic that you plucked to bolster you arguement, when subtracted from the reported shortfall of 100,000 leaves a remainder of a 70,000 driver shortfall, which are clearly eu drivers. i would agree that one of the benefits of this is to the environment and peoples health by removing many many thousands of the countries most polluting vehicles from our roads. this is clearly a plus point and will hopefully continue. "
The RHA have consistently said we are 50,000 short for many many years even with the European drivers here, take my 30,000 add the estimated 20,000 Europeans not coming now add the historical 50,000 and you have your 100,000 without 70,000 Europeans.
Thing is the RHA are haulage business representatives not a drivers union & business just wants cheap labour so we probably don’t need 50,000 more they just want them to keep wages down. If such a shortage really existed all current drivers could walk in & out of jobs at their leisure for much more than they earn now & new drivers wouldn’t struggle to get a job. So imo the 50,000 is just a figure plucked out of the ethos.
S |
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By *estivalMan
over a year ago
borehamwood |
"well your on here whining about brexiters enough so you either voted remain or like me didnt vote,im pretty sure if u voted for brexit you wouldnt be on here moaning about it every day and as for posting on here im a member so free to post on what i like as long as i dont break the rules,or would you prefer it if only those who agree with you could post? And care nah not really i just find it amusing reading posts from people who cant get over the fact that people didnt vote for the status quo,christ if i knew it would of pissed so many people off id have registerd and voted for it myself
you have confused 'whining' and 'moaning', as you so uneloquently put it, with the pointing out of facts. you persist in your ignorance by making claims based on wild surmise about how i voted. you are free to post on any subject you care about; in this instance you care about defending brexit even though you profess to not care or indeed voted. one day maybe you will be able to get over the fact that people are entitled to pass comment on what they like without the need for you feeling that you must attack them for it. i havent posted anything defending brexit i just pointed out most who i know who voted for it lost intrest pretty quick once they got freedom of movement stopped,and u can point out what you like mate it aint gona change a thing,really mate your just gona cause yourself stress if u keep banging on about things you cant change
pointing out the failure of brexit is by no means attempting to change the outcome, it is merely the truth being spoken to the ignorant. "
and you think if you keep calling them ignorant that might make them see things differently? U crack on mate although i dont fancy your chances of them taking a blind bit on notice of what your saying |
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"i dont fancy your chances of them taking a blind bit on notice of what your saying"
unlike yourself who notices so much despite pretending about not caring, you feel the need to post on the topic time and time again |
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"i dont fancy your chances of them taking a blind bit on notice of what your saying
unlike yourself who notices so much despite pretending about not caring, you feel the need to post on the topic time and time again and u feel the need to reply to me again and again what do you think i actually care about anyway?not only wealthy and hung but a mind reader aswell aint you the talented one"
i'm merely answering the series questions you've repeatedly asked me on the the topic of defending brexit that you clearly care about with your numerous posts on the subject. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"the 30,000 statistic that you plucked to bolster you arguement, when subtracted from the reported shortfall of 100,000 leaves a remainder of a 70,000 driver shortfall, which are clearly eu drivers. i would agree that one of the benefits of this is to the environment and peoples health by removing many many thousands of the countries most polluting vehicles from our roads. this is clearly a plus point and will hopefully continue.
The RHA have consistently said we are 50,000 short for many many years even with the European drivers here, take my 30,000 add the estimated 20,000 Europeans not coming now add the historical 50,000 and you have your 100,000 without 70,000 Europeans.
Thing is the RHA are haulage business representatives not a drivers union & business just wants cheap labour so we probably don’t need 50,000 more they just want them to keep wages down. If such a shortage really existed all current drivers could walk in & out of jobs at their leisure for much more than they earn now & new drivers wouldn’t struggle to get a job. So imo the 50,000 is just a figure plucked out of the ethos.
S"
Just to see, here are their numbers
https://www.rha.uk.net/News/News-Blogs-and-Press-Releases/press-releases/detail/driver-shortage-rha-and-freight-industry-write-to-prime-minister-boris-johnson
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"Apparently Johnson has decided to relax immigration rules to desperately get enough truck drivers. So... um... does that mean Brexit isn't working out great? Was ending free movement of workers with the EU actually... a bad idea?
And what happened to taking back control? Are we now un-taking back control?
"
I'm sure the Government will sort it all out in the end. After all, it only took about 8 months and 60,000 deaths for them to sort out a Covid vaccine.
As we were told, because it's true, getting an effective vaccine that fast is no mean feat.
So, sorting out a shortage of lorry drivers should be a piece of piss; right?
After all, it's not like they don't know what's caused it. |
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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago
Grantham |
"i just checked ... there is an advert for a machine operator which pays £9.60 per hour. no mention of picker jobs at £30 per hour.
Fuck it then. I'm not moving down there. LOL
"
Its still there. Check out their twitter feed for both the 13th and 15th September. |
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By *eroy1000Man
over a year ago
milton keynes |
"Nothing to do with a worldwide pandemic then
the begging for eu truck drivers to return by our government is clearly an admission that brexit has failed and also clearly shows that the pandemic has had a more marginal effect on the situation that tory nay-sayers are claiming.
But that’s the way it’s supposed to work, countries offering certain jobs that need filling at times of need just like places that are not in the free movement of people zones.
Try going to somewhere like Australia, New Zealand ect to work and see that you need a working visa
And so it controls the amount of people doing jobs that indigenous people can do "
I agree that's how it is to work and to me makes sense to have the required amount of people for each sector. I would assume a business only employs the required amount of people to run efficiently and no more so why should an entire country. Now the part I disagree with the government is that they clearly have not implemented their own strategy. They should have acted far sooner with the hgv thing and to a greater extent. I totally understand that covid has caused a backlog in tests but while that's being fixed they could have recruited elsewhere. What's the point in having a flexible border that you control if you don't use it correctly. |
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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago
Grantham |
"still no evidence of an advert for £30 pickers, only spurious reports from lower tier media with no concrete evidence.  "
Then you aren't quite as clever as you make out.
I've just viewed said advert not 15 minutes ago! |
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"still no evidence of an advert for £30 pickers, only spurious reports from lower tier media with no concrete evidence.
Then you aren't quite as clever as you make out.
I've just viewed said advert not 15 minutes ago! "
i was hoping for some constructive help rather than the usual bland forum insults but nevermind. |
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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago
Grantham |
"still no evidence of an advert for £30 pickers, only spurious reports from lower tier media with no concrete evidence.
Then you aren't quite as clever as you make out.
I've just viewed said advert not 15 minutes ago!
i was hoping for some constructive help rather than the usual bland forum insults but nevermind."
I've posted above where you can view it. If you need further helo, try Lincolnshire Live |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"i tried the companies own website and failing to find any 1st hand evidence i have emailed them to clarify. hopefully i will hear back from them later this week. "
try their Facebook. Although they are evasive of how one gets to 30. It's not the basic hourly rate... No idea what that is.... |
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"The lorry driver shortage is Europe-wide. Poland is 120,000 lorry drivers short.
Coronavirus has been the major factor causing shortages.
Absolutely correct there has been a shortage for years . Ours was and to a great extent still is being filled by EU migrants . Covid has opened the wound Brexit has added salt.
Poland’s economy is growing rapidly and drivers will move back there as wages rise .
Being unwelcome in the U.K. is a persuasive argument to leave. Who was made unwelcome in the uk? people were offered settled status in the uk just like uk citizens in the eu. If they chose to return it was not because they were not welcome i would guess they were only here either for short term gain or like a lot of people wanted to be near family during the pandemic.
Does anyone have any firm figures on how many hgv drivers left the uk due to brexit alone? as i cant find any.Would the world wide shortage (yes its not just the uk) have more to do with the pandemic than brexit as i cant for the life of me see how shortages of drivers in the USA for example has been because of brexit."
Could it be the increase of race crimes against eastern europeans, that made them think they might be no longer welcome here? |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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Are some people still denying Brexit has anything to do with certain problems? It's quite astonishing.
I asked a similar question earlier. I never noticed an answer. Here goes another try...
If the fuel crisis has nothing to do with Brexit, why are we trying to solve it by reversing Brexit legislation on visas?
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By *ovebjsMan
over a year ago
Bristol |
"Are some people still denying Brexit has anything to do with certain problems? It's quite astonishing.
I asked a similar question earlier. I never noticed an answer. Here goes another try...
If the fuel crisis has nothing to do with Brexit, why are we trying to solve it by reversing Brexit legislation on visas?
"
What reversing?
They always said that work visas would be granted on an as needs basis |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Are some people still denying Brexit has anything to do with certain problems? It's quite astonishing.
I asked a similar question earlier. I never noticed an answer. Here goes another try...
If the fuel crisis has nothing to do with Brexit, why are we trying to solve it by reversing Brexit legislation on visas?
What reversing?
They always said that work visas would be granted on an as needs basis "
Hahahahaha
"Under the current system, lorry drivers do not meet the threshold for skills that would qualify them to come to the UK. "
Seems like some reversing to me. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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They ran their Brexit campaign about taking back control and ending free movement with the EU. They're now being forced to let those EU workers back in because they desperately need em. |
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By *ovebjsMan
over a year ago
Bristol |
"They ran their Brexit campaign about taking back control and ending free movement with the EU. They're now being forced to let those EU workers back in because they desperately need em. "
That’s how a visa system works, you bring in the labour that you need at the time on 3 or 6 month visas
As does any other country outside the block not reversing just adapting
Employers need to start training and hiring Uk residents first.
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By *ovebjsMan
over a year ago
Bristol |
"The EU lorry drivers were not paying tax in the UK for earned income in the UK. Which has now changed under Brexit so i dought they will be coming back anytime soon."
Exactly, work here for 3-6 months and then go home for a few months and claim back any tax paid in the UK.
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By *mmmMaybeCouple
over a year ago
West Wales |
"The EU lorry drivers were not paying tax in the UK for earned income in the UK. Which has now changed under Brexit so i dought they will be coming back anytime soon."
Makes you die really, chasing a couple of thousand people for the last drop of tax all while the likes of Amazon ,Costa etc. Pay next to fck all in comparison & sweet fa is done about it.
S |
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By *mmmMaybeCouple
over a year ago
West Wales |
Meanwhile, Even with all these "Driver Shortages" My business orders from Germany are still taking the same amount of time to get to the UK & then delivered to me than they were before the final split from the EU at the start of the year.
Someone, somewhere has been a billy bullshiter just to get their own way & what they want, namely business wanting the cheap labour back & with a few empty shelves & letting a few petrol stations run dry the sheeple of this country have just helped them do it.
S |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Meanwhile, Even with all these "Driver Shortages" My business orders from Germany are still taking the same amount of time to get to the UK & then delivered to me than they were before the final split from the EU at the start of the year.
Someone, somewhere has been a billy bullshiter just to get their own way & what they want, namely business wanting the cheap labour back & with a few empty shelves & letting a few petrol stations run dry the sheeple of this country have just helped them do it.
S"
do you know the nationality of the drivers or which companies are doing the delivery ? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Meanwhile, Even with all these "Driver Shortages" My business orders from Germany are still taking the same amount of time to get to the UK & then delivered to me than they were before the final split from the EU at the start of the year.
Someone, somewhere has been a billy bullshiter just to get their own way & what they want, namely business wanting the cheap labour back & with a few empty shelves & letting a few petrol stations run dry the sheeple of this country have just helped them do it.
S"
PMSL |
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By *mmmMaybeCouple
over a year ago
West Wales |
"Meanwhile, Even with all these "Driver Shortages" My business orders from Germany are still taking the same amount of time to get to the UK & then delivered to me than they were before the final split from the EU at the start of the year.
Someone, somewhere has been a billy bullshiter just to get their own way & what they want, namely business wanting the cheap labour back & with a few empty shelves & letting a few petrol stations run dry the sheeple of this country have just helped them do it.
Sdo you know the nationality of the drivers or which companies are doing the delivery ?"
That’s a bit like saying who delivers to the supermarket though, it’s next to never a continental they would just deliver to an RDC. So the guy bringing my oil & spares isn’t going to be the guy that left Germany. The company though is GLS but here due to access they palm their deliveries out to the PO.
The thing that made me go about all this is that tanker driving is right up there in the top driving jobs & one where very few leave to do other driving jobs or other jobs full stop. You also need special training & Certs so it isn’t a job where there was a large continental presence so where did the drivers disappear too? as there are no higher paid quality driving jobs than theirs.
The real limited short term tanker shortage was more likely down to a limited workforce & a few off work due to Covid.
As I pointed out earlier it was initially only BP & only about eight stations in their whole network, So approx three drivers short.
The whole things pathetic, we now have a nation of complete morons with cars with full tanks sitting on their drives for the three mile trip to school whatever & probably saying “See I was right to fill up, it’s got much worse!”. One of my friends in East London queuing for his rationed £20 watched the RangeRover next to him get less than £10 in it before it was full. Probably used half of that in the que! WTAF!
S |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I agree this is a storm in a tea cup, just asking questions as I like to hear real world experience rarher than just what is in the news which has its own agenda for sure. |
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"Meanwhile, Even with all these "Driver Shortages" My business orders from Germany are still taking the same amount of time to get to the UK & then delivered to me than they were before the final split from the EU at the start of the year.
Someone, somewhere has been a billy bullshiter just to get their own way & what they want, namely business wanting the cheap labour back & with a few empty shelves & letting a few petrol stations run dry the sheeple of this country have just helped them do it.
Sdo you know the nationality of the drivers or which companies are doing the delivery ?
That’s a bit like saying who delivers to the supermarket though, it’s next to never a continental they would just deliver to an RDC. So the guy bringing my oil & spares isn’t going to be the guy that left Germany. The company though is GLS but here due to access they palm their deliveries out to the PO.
The thing that made me go about all this is that tanker driving is right up there in the top driving jobs & one where very few leave to do other driving jobs or other jobs full stop. You also need special training & Certs so it isn’t a job where there was a large continental presence so where did the drivers disappear too? as there are no higher paid quality driving jobs than theirs.
The real limited short term tanker shortage was more likely down to a limited workforce & a few off work due to Covid.
As I pointed out earlier it was initially only BP & only about eight stations in their whole network, So approx three drivers short.
The whole things pathetic, we now have a nation of complete morons with cars with full tanks sitting on their drives for the three mile trip to school whatever & probably saying “See I was right to fill up, it’s got much worse!”. One of my friends in East London queuing for his rationed £20 watched the RangeRover next to him get less than £10 in it before it was full. Probably used half of that in the que! WTAF!
S"
your figures conflict with what bp was reported as saying to the government on thursday prior to the current fuel shortages.
https://www.itv.com/news/2021-09-23/hgv-driver-shortage-bp-poised-to-ration-fuel-deliveries-amid-supply-problems |
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By *mmmMaybeCouple
over a year ago
West Wales |
"Meanwhile, Even with all these "Driver Shortages" My business orders from Germany are still taking the same amount of time to get to the UK & then delivered to me than they were before the final split from the EU at the start of the year.
Someone, somewhere has been a billy bullshiter just to get their own way & what they want, namely business wanting the cheap labour back & with a few empty shelves & letting a few petrol stations run dry the sheeple of this country have just helped them do it.
Sdo you know the nationality of the drivers or which companies are doing the delivery ?
That’s a bit like saying who delivers to the supermarket though, it’s next to never a continental they would just deliver to an RDC. So the guy bringing my oil & spares isn’t going to be the guy that left Germany. The company though is GLS but here due to access they palm their deliveries out to the PO.
The thing that made me go about all this is that tanker driving is right up there in the top driving jobs & one where very few leave to do other driving jobs or other jobs full stop. You also need special training & Certs so it isn’t a job where there was a large continental presence so where did the drivers disappear too? as there are no higher paid quality driving jobs than theirs.
The real limited short term tanker shortage was more likely down to a limited workforce & a few off work due to Covid.
As I pointed out earlier it was initially only BP & only about eight stations in their whole network, So approx three drivers short.
The whole things pathetic, we now have a nation of complete morons with cars with full tanks sitting on their drives for the three mile trip to school whatever & probably saying “See I was right to fill up, it’s got much worse!”. One of my friends in East London queuing for his rationed £20 watched the RangeRover next to him get less than £10 in it before it was full. Probably used half of that in the que! WTAF!
S
your figures conflict with what bp was reported as saying to the government on thursday prior to the current fuel shortages.
https://www.itv.com/news/2021-09-23/hgv-driver-shortage-bp-poised-to-ration-fuel-deliveries-amid-supply-problems"
They say in their own report the shortages were in “Tens of stations” in their 1200+ network.
Perhaps if we start to read what’s not written rather than what is. One the majority of deliveries are done by a subcontractor namely Hoyer & BP’s own in house driver fleet shows a higher than the norm leaving rate after training.
Both these things point to BP likely paying under the competition rates with Hoyer using their limited available drivers on higher paying contracts likely other fuel companies & BPs own drivers leaving after the stipulated minimum period after training to also probably drive for these other companies.
No surprise then that they want the Government to open the doors is it?
S |
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By *mmmMaybeCouple
over a year ago
West Wales |
"Perhaps if we start to read what’s not written rather than what is.
your suggestion of altering the facts to fit the narrative is bogus."
Feel free to reread the “Tens if stations” in the link you posted & explain why BP lose so many top industry earning drivers. They don’t leave to go delivering to Lidl etc. The money isn’t there, the only place they’ll go is out full stop or another company doing the same job for better pay or conditions or both.
The real question is why was it only BP that was short? The fuel all comes from the same six or so national sites for everyone all using the same limited pool if highly trained drivers.
So why just BP?
S |
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"Perhaps if we start to read what’s not written rather than what is.
your suggestion of altering the facts to fit the narrative is bogus.
Feel free to reread the “Tens if stations” in the link you posted & explain why BP lose so many top industry earning drivers. They don’t leave to go delivering to Lidl etc. The money isn’t there, the only place they’ll go is out full stop or another company doing the same job for better pay or conditions or both.
The real question is why was it only BP that was short? The fuel all comes from the same six or so national sites for everyone all using the same limited pool if highly trained drivers.
So why just BP?
S"
your analysis is incomplete and deliberately misleading. tesco and esso both reported a shortage and closed pumps and forcourts on thursday. |
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By *mmmMaybeCouple
over a year ago
West Wales |
"Perhaps if we start to read what’s not written rather than what is.
your suggestion of altering the facts to fit the narrative is bogus.
Feel free to reread the “Tens if stations” in the link you posted & explain why BP lose so many top industry earning drivers. They don’t leave to go delivering to Lidl etc. The money isn’t there, the only place they’ll go is out full stop or another company doing the same job for better pay or conditions or both.
The real question is why was it only BP that was short? The fuel all comes from the same six or so national sites for everyone all using the same limited pool if highly trained drivers.
So why just BP?
S
your analysis is incomplete and deliberately misleading. tesco and esso both reported a shortage and closed pumps and forcourts on thursday. "
From City Daily on Thursday.
BP and Esso owner ExxonMobil have announced that deliveries of petrol and diesel to forecourts across the UK will be reduced to ensure supplies do not run out.
Esso also supply/run 200 of Tesco’s forecourts,
Tesco stated that none of the 500 solely owned by them were having any supply difficulties.
The Petrol Retailers Association said on Saturday that the shortages were localised affecting BP, Esso, some Tesco stations.
All linked, no other members had reported any issues at all Until the sheeples.
S
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"Perhaps if we start to read what’s not written rather than what is.
your suggestion of altering the facts to fit the narrative is bogus."
I think this says it all. BP doesn’t employ any HGV drivers directly, it outsources deliveries to Hoyer, an independent haulier.
BP has approximately 45 drivers coming through in training but the company is also experiencing high rates of attrition. In the week beginning September 6, 10 drivers joined and six left.
A company failing to prepare and obviously not the best to work for either going by that leaving rate.
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"BP and Esso owner ExxonMobil have announced that deliveries of petrol and diesel to forecourts across the UK will be reduced to ensure supplies do not run out.
"
as i said when i corrected your erroneous post, not just BP then. |
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By *mmmMaybeCouple
over a year ago
West Wales |
"BP and Esso owner ExxonMobil have announced that deliveries of petrol and diesel to forecourts across the UK will be reduced to ensure supplies do not run out.
as i said when i corrected your erroneous post, not just BP then. "
That’s a bit like saying there’s shortages in Tesco but not in Tesco express & then saying they are not part of the same group bough isn’t it?
S |
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