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Russia why do people not like them
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"Why are we in the west so against Russia " Not only in the West... | |||
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"So you say that the west does not get involved in these dirty tricks " Of course, Russian tsar and his supporters are just more willing to do transparent and obvious gaslighting which grates more with people. Oops, I meant president. | |||
"So you say that the west does not get involved in these dirty tricks Of course, Russian tsar and his supporters are just more willing to do transparent and obvious gaslighting which grates more with people. Oops, I meant president. " Putin is very popular in Russia people love him | |||
"I think the west cannot come to terms with the Russian s winning the war there has been anti russian feeling since 1945" Since the Soviets repressed and ra ped countless thousands of Eastern Europeans, any concern was well founded. | |||
"Why are we in the west so against Russia " . Who is “we” and where is “ the west” or are you just speaking for yourself as usual. | |||
"So you say that the west does not get involved in these dirty tricks Of course, Russian tsar and his supporters are just more willing to do transparent and obvious gaslighting which grates more with people. Oops, I meant president. Putin is very popular in Russia people love him " Do they really? Do they actually get a say in this? I don’t know, but I wonder how impartial and fair their elections are | |||
"I think the west cannot come to terms with the Russian s winning the war there has been anti russian feeling since 1945 Since the Soviets repressed and ra ped countless thousands of Eastern Europeans, any concern was well founded." and you believe that do you or is it what the Americans what us to believe | |||
"I think the west cannot come to terms with the Russian s winning the war there has been anti russian feeling since 1945 Since the Soviets repressed and ra ped countless thousands of Eastern Europeans, any concern was well founded. and you believe that do you or is it what the Americans what us to believe" It is well documented. | |||
"So you say that the west does not get involved in these dirty tricks Of course, Russian tsar and his supporters are just more willing to do transparent and obvious gaslighting which grates more with people. Oops, I meant president. Putin is very popular in Russia people love him Do they really? Do they actually get a say in this? I don’t know, but I wonder how impartial and fair their elections are" they hold elections yea just as fair as in America ask Donald trump | |||
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"I think the west cannot come to terms with the Russian s winning the war there has been anti russian feeling since 1945 Since the Soviets repressed and ra ped countless thousands of Eastern Europeans, any concern was well founded. and you believe that do you or is it what the Americans what us to believe It is well documented." have you seen these documents until I do I won't believe what the American s say | |||
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"So you say that the west does not get involved in these dirty tricks Of course, Russian tsar and his supporters are just more willing to do transparent and obvious gaslighting which grates more with people. Oops, I meant president. Putin is very popular in Russia people love him Do they really? Do they actually get a say in this? I don’t know, but I wonder how impartial and fair their elections are" Not very as they keep trying to kill off the opposition. | |||
"It's kind of like when they say Iran can't have nuclear weapons when they're armed to the hilt with them themselves. They can't control Putin so create an enemy of him. The Russian rampage at the euros was a bit shocking though. " that's right Iran is not allowed nuclear weapons Israel is India is Pakistan is and the USA the only country to use them is | |||
"I think the west cannot come to terms with the Russian s winning the war there has been anti russian feeling since 1945 Since the Soviets repressed and ra ped countless thousands of Eastern Europeans, any concern was well founded. and you believe that do you or is it what the Americans what us to believe It is well documented. have you seen these documents until I do I won't believe what the American s say" I’m out of here and leave you to suck up to nonsense. | |||
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"I think the west cannot come to terms with the Russian s winning the war there has been anti russian feeling since 1945 Since the Soviets repressed and ra ped countless thousands of Eastern Europeans, any concern was well founded. and you believe that do you or is it what the Americans what us to believe" You must be having some sick joke. Tell that to the people who died in Siberia. Why own grandparents escaped by a miracle, my godfather got sent to Magadan for 10 years. If you do not know then educate yourself. It does surprise that people know about Hitler's crimes but are quite oblivious of Stalin's and his supporters and successors. | |||
"I don't think anyone here is anti-Russian, per se, but Russia hasn't exactly done itself proud in its choice of leaders... and it's those leaders Brits take issue with. And quite rightly too. Perhaps, living in a country where a corrupt psychotic despot like Putin or Lukashenko would've been booted out decades ago, we can't help feeling a reluctance to respect a population who hasn't done that for themselves already after it's gone on so long already. Don't get me wrong - I don't think Russians are are really cowards, I know for a fact that many are not... but they desperately need to stand up and tackle their home-grown despot addiction." Putin is very popular in Russia and as for corruption is the UK parliament not corrupt what about David Cameron what about cash for questions what about MPs expenses | |||
"I don't think anyone here is anti-Russian, per se, but Russia hasn't exactly done itself proud in its choice of leaders... and it's those leaders Brits take issue with. And quite rightly too. Perhaps, living in a country where a corrupt psychotic despot like Putin or Lukashenko would've been booted out decades ago, we can't help feeling a reluctance to respect a population who hasn't done that for themselves already after it's gone on so long already. Don't get me wrong - I don't think Russians are are really cowards, I know for a fact that many are not... but they desperately need to stand up and tackle their home-grown despot addiction." Russia is a funny old place. So much brilliance in thought and in art yet politically doomed. I frequently have these conversations with my dad and we end up with the same conclusions. For some reason or for multitude of reasons it is hard to imagine Russian people ever living in a prosperous, free and content way. Not matter what the names are, nothing in principle has changed - there is always a tsar in Russia with a posse and it is ruled by a combination of brutal force and blantant lies. It just doesn't seem like there is any hope which is heartbreaking. | |||
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"Sounds just like the uk" This made me laugh but not in a good way. | |||
"Why are we in the west so against Russia " I'm not 100pc sure what you mean by "against Russia". Maybe it's worth starting by explaining what has led you to asking this question. | |||
"I don't think anyone here is anti-Russian, per se, but Russia hasn't exactly done itself proud in its choice of leaders... and it's those leaders Brits take issue with. And quite rightly too. Perhaps, living in a country where a corrupt psychotic despot like Putin or Lukashenko would've been booted out decades ago, we can't help feeling a reluctance to respect a population who hasn't done that for themselves already after it's gone on so long already. Don't get me wrong - I don't think Russians are are really cowards, I know for a fact that many are not... but they desperately need to stand up and tackle their home-grown despot addiction. Putin is very popular in Russia and as for corruption is the UK parliament not corrupt what about David Cameron what about cash for questions what about MPs expenses" David Cameron is no longer prime minister, and MP’s expenses are no longer as “lavish” as they were. Whereas Putin is reputable one of the richest men in the world, and you don’t want to be one of his political enemies. | |||
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"Are we? The press maybe. But the average person isn't against the average Russian." this | |||
"I don't think anyone here is anti-Russian, per se, but Russia hasn't exactly done itself proud in its choice of leaders... and it's those leaders Brits take issue with. And quite rightly too. Perhaps, living in a country where a corrupt psychotic despot like Putin or Lukashenko would've been booted out decades ago, we can't help feeling a reluctance to respect a population who hasn't done that for themselves already after it's gone on so long already. Don't get me wrong - I don't think Russians are are really cowards, I know for a fact that many are not... but they desperately need to stand up and tackle their home-grown despot addiction. Putin is very popular in Russia and as for corruption is the UK parliament not corrupt what about David Cameron what about cash for questions what about MPs expenses David Cameron is no longer prime minister, and MP’s expenses are no longer as “lavish” as they were. Whereas Putin is reputable one of the richest men in the world, and you don’t want to be one of his political enemies." so very similar to Donald trump then | |||
"Why are we in the west so against Russia " Because we listen to mainstream media. | |||
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"So you say that the west does not get involved in these dirty tricks Of course, Russian tsar and his supporters are just more willing to do transparent and obvious gaslighting which grates more with people. Oops, I meant president. Putin is very popular in Russia people love him " But do they realise he has siphoned off the equivalent of 51 billion dollars. That’s his net worth. Outside of Moscow & St Petersburg the rest of Russia is third world. He’s the biggest thief in history! | |||
"So you say that the west does not get involved in these dirty tricks Of course, Russian tsar and his supporters are just more willing to do transparent and obvious gaslighting which grates more with people. Oops, I meant president. Putin is very popular in Russia people love him But do they realise he has siphoned off the equivalent of 51 billion dollars. That’s his net worth. Outside of Moscow & St Petersburg the rest of Russia is third world. He’s the biggest thief in history! " sounds like Donald trump but he's American so it's ok | |||
"So you say that the west does not get involved in these dirty tricks Of course, Russian tsar and his supporters are just more willing to do transparent and obvious gaslighting which grates more with people. Oops, I meant president. Putin is very popular in Russia people love him But do they realise he has siphoned off the equivalent of 51 billion dollars. That’s his net worth. Outside of Moscow & St Petersburg the rest of Russia is third world. He’s the biggest thief in history! " and did you read that in the Washington post | |||
"Why are we in the west so against Russia " It must be what they put in their tea.  | |||
"Why are we in the west so against Russia " They have all the cheap gas | |||
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"Against the Russian parliament, not the Russian people" and what makes our parliament so special or the house of lords who no one can vote for but decide the laws here | |||
"Against the Russian parliament, not the Russian people and what makes our parliament so special or the house of lords who no one can vote for but decide the laws here" That's not the question | |||
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"I like the Russians. I don’t think much of their political agendas and leadership. People are just people the same as us everywhere. Plus I do enjoy their vodka." all countries of the world have political agendas none more so than the USA and UK | |||
"I like the Russians. I don’t think much of their political agendas and leadership. People are just people the same as us everywhere. Plus I do enjoy their vodka. all countries of the world have political agendas none more so than the USA and UK " Oh really???? | |||
"So you say that the west does not get involved in these dirty tricks Of course, Russian tsar and his supporters are just more willing to do transparent and obvious gaslighting which grates more with people. Oops, I meant president. Putin is very popular in Russia people love him But do they realise he has siphoned off the equivalent of 51 billion dollars. That’s his net worth. Outside of Moscow & St Petersburg the rest of Russia is third world. He’s the biggest thief in history! and did you read that in the Washington post" Ay? | |||
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"I like the Russians. I don’t think much of their political agendas and leadership. People are just people the same as us everywhere. Plus I do enjoy their vodka. all countries of the world have political agendas none more so than the USA and UK " Did I say they didn’t? You asked why ‘WE’ in the west don’t like them. I like Russia and Russian people in general. I don’t like being tarred with your blanket of hate and gave my reasons why. | |||
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"You said you did not think much of Russia's political agendas and I said all countries of the world have political agendas so why say it's just Russia this has been going on since 1945 " I didn’t say it was just Russia. Have you escaped from the political forum? | |||
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"And you have seen evidence of all of this or is it just the Americans still fighting the cold war and wanting everyone to believe it as for drugs in sport the UK are not all that guilt free are they" I’m trying to see the point of this in the lounge section of a swinging website? I can’t really see the Russian troll farms seeing fab as a avenue of approach but you are showing classic behaviours of one, with continual ‘whatabouttery’ and some kind of illusion that the Russians are fluffy peace lovers. On a one to one, the average Russian is great - I haven’t met one I haven’t liked. But for some reason, their government lies about EVERYTHING, from nerve agents in Salisbury, to little green men in Ukraine. They even lied about the unexplained deaths of some hikers back in the 50’s (could be wrong decade). Stalin was as bad as, or worse that Hitler. They have invaded other countries on very flimsy pretexts (yes we all know the Americans have as well - the point is that the Russians are no better or worse). You speak to the average member of one of the other soviet republics, such as Lithuania, Ukraine etc - as far as they were concerned, they were occupied by the Russians. | |||
"And you have seen evidence of all of this or is it just the Americans still fighting the cold war and wanting everyone to believe it as for drugs in sport the UK are not all that guilt free are they" You've had this answered by a poster who shared her family experience of persecution at the hands of Stalin. But you've chosen to ignore the firsthand information and just keep repeating nonsense and trying to stir a non existent pot. The Russian state (over a very long period of time) has been highly dysfunctional and despotic. That's what people object to, not ordinary Russian citizens. The crimes of various successions of Russian state leaders have been extensively documented in photographic, video and firsthand written accounts. The gulags cannot be denied. The state sponsored assassinations cannot be denied. | |||
"Putin is very popular in Russia people love him " No he's not - don't talk shit. The only reason he's still in power is because he's built up a system of corruption and violence that keeps him in power over a population which lacks the cultural background to be sufficiently outraged about it. If he was genuinely popular in Russia, there would be no need for him to restrict the standing of opposition candidates in elections... or poison his critics... or murder them. But, unfortunately for us all, he does need to do these things to retain his power. Trust me - most Russians wish he'd just fuck off and die, but only after he gives back all those billions he's stolen. The fact that, despite what folks here (who know better than you) have written, you continue to spout the pro-Putin line claiming he's anything other than the thieving murderous despot he his. | |||
" The Russian state (over a very long period of time) has been highly dysfunctional and despotic. That's what people object to, not ordinary Russian citizens. The crimes of various successions of Russian state leaders have been extensively documented in photographic, video and firsthand written accounts. The gulags cannot be denied. The state sponsored assassinations cannot be denied. " You mean just like Britain, the U.S, France, Germany Belgium, Spain, Portugal, the viking, the Egyptians, the Greek, the Christians, the jews, the muslims etc... The reason people in the west apparently dont like Russians (every Russian I have ever met has been a really nice person, my personal experience) Is because of the decades of propaganda fed to you since the battle against communism began. Despite that battle being won by capitalism, Russia is still a huge threat to the western powers due to it's own power and strength...do you think WW2 would have been won without the Russians? Do you think space exploration would exist in the state it is in, if it were not for the Russians? This is not all said out of some love for Putin by the way, he is a disgusting corrupt leader, just like all the other world leaders, but the reason the west is programmed to not like Russia is because of control, wealth and power, and the propaganda fed to you. | |||
" The Russian state (over a very long period of time) has been highly dysfunctional and despotic. That's what people object to, not ordinary Russian citizens. The crimes of various successions of Russian state leaders have been extensively documented in photographic, video and firsthand written accounts. The gulags cannot be denied. The state sponsored assassinations cannot be denied. You mean just like Britain, the U.S, France, Germany Belgium, Spain, Portugal, the viking, the Egyptians, the Greek, the Christians, the jews, the muslims etc... The reason people in the west apparently dont like Russians (every Russian I have ever met has been a really nice person, my personal experience) Is because of the decades of propaganda fed to you since the battle against communism began. Despite that battle being won by capitalism, Russia is still a huge threat to the western powers due to it's own power and strength...do you think WW2 would have been won without the Russians? Do you think space exploration would exist in the state it is in, if it were not for the Russians? This is not all said out of some love for Putin by the way, he is a disgusting corrupt leader, just like all the other world leaders, but the reason the west is programmed to not like Russia is because of control, wealth and power, and the propaganda fed to you." WW2 wouldn’t have been won without the Americans or the British either. Space exploration would also be vastly different without the Americans (and the Nazi’s made a contribution as well). I don’t think anyone really disputes that each country in history has carried out acts that are heinous and reprehensible, but the OP seems to think that the Russians are kind to all, which is blatantly untrue. For example, one tactic used by the red army in Afghanistan was to scatter tiny land mines that resembled plastic butterflies. The idea was that children would pick these up… and yes, I know the Americans did bad things in Vietnam as well, the saying “we had to destroy the village in order to save it”, the my lai massacre and the use of agent orange and so on. | |||
"So you say that the west does not get involved in these dirty tricks Of course, Russian tsar and his supporters are just more willing to do transparent and obvious gaslighting which grates more with people. Oops, I meant president. Putin is very popular in Russia people love him But do they realise he has siphoned off the equivalent of 51 billion dollars. That’s his net worth. Outside of Moscow & St Petersburg the rest of Russia is third world. He’s the biggest thief in history! sounds like Donald trump but he's American so it's ok " Of course it is not OK and of course USA is not that different or not that much better in terms of oppression, greed etc - except they hide it all better or try to and Russian government lies to everyone's face. Both predatory countries of course, just in different ways. That doesn't change facts, it is not either/or. | |||
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"I don't think anyone here is anti-Russian, per se, but Russia hasn't exactly done itself proud in its choice of leaders... and it's those leaders Brits take issue with. And quite rightly too. Perhaps, living in a country where a corrupt psychotic despot like Putin or Lukashenko would've been booted out decades ago, we can't help feeling a reluctance to respect a population who hasn't done that for themselves already after it's gone on so long already. Don't get me wrong - I don't think Russians are are really cowards, I know for a fact that many are not... but they desperately need to stand up and tackle their home-grown despot addiction. Putin is very popular in Russia and as for corruption is the UK parliament not corrupt what about David Cameron what about cash for questions what about MPs expenses David Cameron is no longer prime minister, and MP’s expenses are no longer as “lavish” as they were. Whereas Putin is reputable one of the richest men in the world, and you don’t want to be one of his political enemies." The expenses policy has not changed it is just that MPs are more cautious about what they buy but it’s still a way to make a lot of money regarding housing and family employees. I think Russia scares us and so we willingly suck up the newspapers bullshit . The leaders in Russia have a massive police state to intimidate the citizens so they are scared and believe their bias press too. It’s just they will disappear if they say too much. Here the press defend the thieves and the thieves are changing the law to stop being exposed. Dictatorship behaviour . Personally I have no issue with any average Russian and I’m sure most of us don’t . | |||
"Why are we in the west so against Russia " I think the average person does not give a rats ass about Russia  | |||
" The Russian state (over a very long period of time) has been highly dysfunctional and despotic. That's what people object to, not ordinary Russian citizens. The crimes of various successions of Russian state leaders have been extensively documented in photographic, video and firsthand written accounts. The gulags cannot be denied. The state sponsored assassinations cannot be denied. You mean just like Britain, the U.S, France, Germany Belgium, Spain, Portugal, the viking, the Egyptians, the Greek, the Christians, the jews, the muslims etc... The reason people in the west apparently dont like Russians (every Russian I have ever met has been a really nice person, my personal experience) Is because of the decades of propaganda fed to you since the battle against communism began. Despite that battle being won by capitalism, Russia is still a huge threat to the western powers due to it's own power and strength...do you think WW2 would have been won without the Russians? Do you think space exploration would exist in the state it is in, if it were not for the Russians? This is not all said out of some love for Putin by the way, he is a disgusting corrupt leader, just like all the other world leaders, but the reason the west is programmed to not like Russia is because of control, wealth and power, and the propaganda fed to you. WW2 wouldn’t have been won without the Americans or the British either. Space exploration would also be vastly different without the Americans (and the Nazi’s made a contribution as well). I don’t think anyone really disputes that each country in history has carried out acts that are heinous and reprehensible, but the OP seems to think that the Russians are kind to all, which is blatantly untrue. For example, one tactic used by the red army in Afghanistan was to scatter tiny land mines that resembled plastic butterflies. The idea was that children would pick these up… and yes, I know the Americans did bad things in Vietnam as well, the saying “we had to destroy the village in order to save it”, the my lai massacre and the use of agent orange and so on. " America had very little to do with the winning of ww2, or ww1, and as for britain, they were saved by the US. As for space exploration, the Russians were the most successful and achieved the most, the US was always behind. If it were not for the need to win last propaganda war between communism and capitalism, the US would not have invested so much in space projects, and therefore, the rate of progress regarding advancements in space would be years behind where it is now. We could be here all day listing the disgusting atrocities done by the UK and US, so I wont bother replying to that part of your comment. | |||
"I don't think anyone here is anti-Russian, per se, but Russia hasn't exactly done itself proud in its choice of leaders... and it's those leaders Brits take issue with. And quite rightly too. Perhaps, living in a country where a corrupt psychotic despot like Putin or Lukashenko would've been booted out decades ago, we can't help feeling a reluctance to respect a population who hasn't done that for themselves already after it's gone on so long already. Don't get me wrong - I don't think Russians are are really cowards, I know for a fact that many are not... but they desperately need to stand up and tackle their home-grown despot addiction. Putin is very popular in Russia and as for corruption is the UK parliament not corrupt what about David Cameron what about cash for questions what about MPs expenses David Cameron is no longer prime minister, and MP’s expenses are no longer as “lavish” as they were. Whereas Putin is reputable one of the richest men in the world, and you don’t want to be one of his political enemies. so very similar to Donald trump then " Ermm no Putin is ex KGB and ran Spetznaz kill squads as muscle for mobsters Trump went bankrupt and didnt pay some people Bit of a difference | |||
"I don't think anyone here is anti-Russian, per se, but Russia hasn't exactly done itself proud in its choice of leaders... and it's those leaders Brits take issue with. And quite rightly too. Perhaps, living in a country where a corrupt psychotic despot like Putin or Lukashenko would've been booted out decades ago, we can't help feeling a reluctance to respect a population who hasn't done that for themselves already after it's gone on so long already. Don't get me wrong - I don't think Russians are are really cowards, I know for a fact that many are not... but they desperately need to stand up and tackle their home-grown despot addiction. Putin is very popular in Russia and as for corruption is the UK parliament not corrupt what about David Cameron what about cash for questions what about MPs expenses David Cameron is no longer prime minister, and MP’s expenses are no longer as “lavish” as they were. Whereas Putin is reputable one of the richest men in the world, and you don’t want to be one of his political enemies. so very similar to Donald trump then Ermm no Putin is ex KGB and ran Spetznaz kill squads as muscle for mobsters Trump went bankrupt and didnt pay some people Bit of a difference" So everything done by US military during his term in power was not on his hands? The changes made around the world, Palestine for example, was not on his hands? Many people died as a result if decissions he made, or was forced to make. | |||
"I don't think anyone here is anti-Russian, per se, but Russia hasn't exactly done itself proud in its choice of leaders... and it's those leaders Brits take issue with. And quite rightly too. Perhaps, living in a country where a corrupt psychotic despot like Putin or Lukashenko would've been booted out decades ago, we can't help feeling a reluctance to respect a population who hasn't done that for themselves already after it's gone on so long already. Don't get me wrong - I don't think Russians are are really cowards, I know for a fact that many are not... but they desperately need to stand up and tackle their home-grown despot addiction. Putin is very popular in Russia and as for corruption is the UK parliament not corrupt what about David Cameron what about cash for questions what about MPs expenses David Cameron is no longer prime minister, and MP’s expenses are no longer as “lavish” as they were. Whereas Putin is reputable one of the richest men in the world, and you don’t want to be one of his political enemies. so very similar to Donald trump then Ermm no Putin is ex KGB and ran Spetznaz kill squads as muscle for mobsters Trump went bankrupt and didnt pay some people Bit of a difference So everything done by US military during his term in power was not on his hands? The changes made around the world, Palestine for example, was not on his hands? Many people died as a result if decissions he made, or was forced to make. " u do realise palestinians have been dying since the 60s they were dying under trump,obama bush clinton reagan and give it a bit of time they will be slaughterd while biden is president aswell,presidents and primeministers are the front man those running the show have been there fir years | |||
" The Russian state (over a very long period of time) has been highly dysfunctional and despotic. That's what people object to, not ordinary Russian citizens. The crimes of various successions of Russian state leaders have been extensively documented in photographic, video and firsthand written accounts. The gulags cannot be denied. The state sponsored assassinations cannot be denied. You mean just like Britain, the U.S, France, Germany Belgium, Spain, Portugal, the viking, the Egyptians, the Greek, the Christians, the jews, the muslims etc... The reason people in the west apparently dont like Russians (every Russian I have ever met has been a really nice person, my personal experience) Is because of the decades of propaganda fed to you since the battle against communism began. Despite that battle being won by capitalism, Russia is still a huge threat to the western powers due to it's own power and strength...do you think WW2 would have been won without the Russians? Do you think space exploration would exist in the state it is in, if it were not for the Russians? This is not all said out of some love for Putin by the way, he is a disgusting corrupt leader, just like all the other world leaders, but the reason the west is programmed to not like Russia is because of control, wealth and power, and the propaganda fed to you. WW2 wouldn’t have been won without the Americans or the British either. Space exploration would also be vastly different without the Americans (and the Nazi’s made a contribution as well). I don’t think anyone really disputes that each country in history has carried out acts that are heinous and reprehensible, but the OP seems to think that the Russians are kind to all, which is blatantly untrue. For example, one tactic used by the red army in Afghanistan was to scatter tiny land mines that resembled plastic butterflies. The idea was that children would pick these up… and yes, I know the Americans did bad things in Vietnam as well, the saying “we had to destroy the village in order to save it”, the my lai massacre and the use of agent orange and so on. America had very little to do with the winning of ww2, or ww1, and as for britain, they were saved by the US. As for space exploration, the Russians were the most successful and achieved the most, the US was always behind. If it were not for the need to win last propaganda war between communism and capitalism, the US would not have invested so much in space projects, and therefore, the rate of progress regarding advancements in space would be years behind where it is now. We could be here all day listing the disgusting atrocities done by the UK and US, so I wont bother replying to that part of your comment." You might like to look up the logistics that the US supplied to the Soviet Union. “ Now they say that the allies never helped us, but it can't be denied that the Americans gave us so many goods without which we wouldn't have been able to form our reserves and continue the war," Soviet General Georgy Zhukov said after the end of WWII. "We didn’t have explosives, gunpowder. We didn’t have anything to charge our rifle cartridges with. The Americans really saved us with their gunpowder and explosives. And how much sheet steel they gave us! How could we have produced our tanks without American steel? But now they make it seem as if we had an abundance of all that. Without American trucks we wouldn’t have had anything to pull our artillery with." More than 14,000 U.S. airplanes, 8,000 of which came from Alaska, were given to the Soviet Union in the course of the war. The USSR received a total of 44,000 American jeeps, 375,883 cargo trucks, 8,071 tractors and 12,700 tanks. Additionally, 1,541,590 blankets, 331,066 liters of alcohol, 15,417,000 pairs of army boots, 106,893 tons of cotton, 2,670,000 tons of petroleum products and 4,478,000 tons of food supplies made their way into the Soviet Union. It was Soviet blood that won the battlefields, it was American logistics that put it there. | |||
"So you say that the west does not get involved in these dirty tricks Of course, Russian tsar and his supporters are just more willing to do transparent and obvious gaslighting which grates more with people. Oops, I meant president. Putin is very popular in Russia people love him But do they realise he has siphoned off the equivalent of 51 billion dollars. That’s his net worth. Outside of Moscow & St Petersburg the rest of Russia is third world. He’s the biggest thief in history! sounds like Donald trump but he's American so it's ok " pmsl so how much did trump steal from the u.s and how many political opponents did he have offed,if putin has anything in common with any american politician id say he is more like hillary clinton | |||
" The Russian state (over a very long period of time) has been highly dysfunctional and despotic. That's what people object to, not ordinary Russian citizens. The crimes of various successions of Russian state leaders have been extensively documented in photographic, video and firsthand written accounts. The gulags cannot be denied. The state sponsored assassinations cannot be denied. You mean just like Britain, the U.S, France, Germany Belgium, Spain, Portugal, the viking, the Egyptians, the Greek, the Christians, the jews, the muslims etc... The reason people in the west apparently dont like Russians (every Russian I have ever met has been a really nice person, my personal experience) Is because of the decades of propaganda fed to you since the battle against communism began. Despite that battle being won by capitalism, Russia is still a huge threat to the western powers due to it's own power and strength...do you think WW2 would have been won without the Russians? Do you think space exploration would exist in the state it is in, if it were not for the Russians? This is not all said out of some love for Putin by the way, he is a disgusting corrupt leader, just like all the other world leaders, but the reason the west is programmed to not like Russia is because of control, wealth and power, and the propaganda fed to you. WW2 wouldn’t have been won without the Americans or the British either. Space exploration would also be vastly different without the Americans (and the Nazi’s made a contribution as well). I don’t think anyone really disputes that each country in history has carried out acts that are heinous and reprehensible, but the OP seems to think that the Russians are kind to all, which is blatantly untrue. For example, one tactic used by the red army in Afghanistan was to scatter tiny land mines that resembled plastic butterflies. The idea was that children would pick these up… and yes, I know the Americans did bad things in Vietnam as well, the saying “we had to destroy the village in order to save it”, the my lai massacre and the use of agent orange and so on. America had very little to do with the winning of ww2, or ww1, and as for britain, they were saved by the US. As for space exploration, the Russians were the most successful and achieved the most, the US was always behind. If it were not for the need to win last propaganda war between communism and capitalism, the US would not have invested so much in space projects, and therefore, the rate of progress regarding advancements in space would be years behind where it is now. We could be here all day listing the disgusting atrocities done by the UK and US, so I wont bother replying to that part of your comment." Err we where not "saved" by the US. We where saved due to the fact we had a more powerful Navy, won the Battle of Britain and German incompetence. Germany could not gain Air Supremacy or start Operation Sealion because our Navy would of annihilated any seaborn invasion. Stuff like Lend Lease helped us and the Russians. The Russians also benfitted from German failures in leadership and stragetic planning, which is the main reason they survived. | |||
" The Russian state (over a very long period of time) has been highly dysfunctional and despotic. That's what people object to, not ordinary Russian citizens. The crimes of various successions of Russian state leaders have been extensively documented in photographic, video and firsthand written accounts. The gulags cannot be denied. The state sponsored assassinations cannot be denied. You mean just like Britain, the U.S, France, Germany Belgium, Spain, Portugal, the viking, the Egyptians, the Greek, the Christians, the jews, the muslims etc... The reason people in the west apparently dont like Russians (every Russian I have ever met has been a really nice person, my personal experience) Is because of the decades of propaganda fed to you since the battle against communism began. Despite that battle being won by capitalism, Russia is still a huge threat to the western powers due to it's own power and strength...do you think WW2 would have been won without the Russians? Do you think space exploration would exist in the state it is in, if it were not for the Russians? This is not all said out of some love for Putin by the way, he is a disgusting corrupt leader, just like all the other world leaders, but the reason the west is programmed to not like Russia is because of control, wealth and power, and the propaganda fed to you. WW2 wouldn’t have been won without the Americans or the British either. Space exploration would also be vastly different without the Americans (and the Nazi’s made a contribution as well). I don’t think anyone really disputes that each country in history has carried out acts that are heinous and reprehensible, but the OP seems to think that the Russians are kind to all, which is blatantly untrue. For example, one tactic used by the red army in Afghanistan was to scatter tiny land mines that resembled plastic butterflies. The idea was that children would pick these up… and yes, I know the Americans did bad things in Vietnam as well, the saying “we had to destroy the village in order to save it”, the my lai massacre and the use of agent orange and so on. America had very little to do with the winning of ww2, or ww1, and as for britain, they were saved by the US. As for space exploration, the Russians were the most successful and achieved the most, the US was always behind. If it were not for the need to win last propaganda war between communism and capitalism, the US would not have invested so much in space projects, and therefore, the rate of progress regarding advancements in space would be years behind where it is now. We could be here all day listing the disgusting atrocities done by the UK and US, so I wont bother replying to that part of your comment." Utter bollocks. The fact the Americans arrived made the Germans finally give up the struggle in WW1 as it was too costly in lives and they were now outnumbered. As for WW2 the whole of the allies armed struggle would have faded without the industrial might of the US. Russia was catching up and as raw materials arrived so were we. Russia and the U.K. both out manufactured Germany and in total built 2.5 times as many planes by the end of the war. As for the US saving the U.K. actually that’s bollocks too as the men and women dying in battle in Africa Russia and the RAF saved us. The Germans couldn’t invade without air supremacy. So we probably couldn’t have won the war without America but they didn’t save us. It was a joint effort and included both the Russians and a huge effort by the then Empire countries. | |||
"Why are we in the west so against Russia " Like many of these countries the actual people are beautiful, it’s just the corrupt government that’s not. I feel we are going that way in this country and it needs to stop! | |||
"Why are we in the west so against Russia Like many of these countries the actual people are beautiful, it’s just the corrupt government that’s not. I feel we are going that way in this country and it needs to stop! " we are already this way in this country i.e David Cameron , cash for questions , MPs expenses | |||
"So you say that the west does not get involved in these dirty tricks Of course, Russian tsar and his supporters are just more willing to do transparent and obvious gaslighting which grates more with people. Oops, I meant president. Putin is very popular in Russia people love him " Yes he's so popular he has to change to law to keep himself in power, stifle the media, rig elections and bump off political and other opponents. Sure sign of popularity. | |||
" The Russian state (over a very long period of time) has been highly dysfunctional and despotic. That's what people object to, not ordinary Russian citizens. The crimes of various successions of Russian state leaders have been extensively documented in photographic, video and firsthand written accounts. The gulags cannot be denied. The state sponsored assassinations cannot be denied. You mean just like Britain, the U.S, France, Germany Belgium, Spain, Portugal, the viking, the Egyptians, the Greek, the Christians, the jews, the muslims etc... The reason people in the west apparently dont like Russians (every Russian I have ever met has been a really nice person, my personal experience) Is because of the decades of propaganda fed to you since the battle against communism began. Despite that battle being won by capitalism, Russia is still a huge threat to the western powers due to it's own power and strength...do you think WW2 would have been won without the Russians? Do you think space exploration would exist in the state it is in, if it were not for the Russians? This is not all said out of some love for Putin by the way, he is a disgusting corrupt leader, just like all the other world leaders, but the reason the west is programmed to not like Russia is because of control, wealth and power, and the propaganda fed to you. WW2 wouldn’t have been won without the Americans or the British either. Space exploration would also be vastly different without the Americans (and the Nazi’s made a contribution as well). I don’t think anyone really disputes that each country in history has carried out acts that are heinous and reprehensible, but the OP seems to think that the Russians are kind to all, which is blatantly untrue. For example, one tactic used by the red army in Afghanistan was to scatter tiny land mines that resembled plastic butterflies. The idea was that children would pick these up… and yes, I know the Americans did bad things in Vietnam as well, the saying “we had to destroy the village in order to save it”, the my lai massacre and the use of agent orange and so on. America had very little to do with the winning of ww2, or ww1, and as for britain, they were saved by the US. As for space exploration, the Russians were the most successful and achieved the most, the US was always behind. If it were not for the need to win last propaganda war between communism and capitalism, the US would not have invested so much in space projects, and therefore, the rate of progress regarding advancements in space would be years behind where it is now. We could be here all day listing the disgusting atrocities done by the UK and US, so I wont bother replying to that part of your comment. You might like to look up the logistics that the US supplied to the Soviet Union. “ Now they say that the allies never helped us, but it can't be denied that the Americans gave us so many goods without which we wouldn't have been able to form our reserves and continue the war," Soviet General Georgy Zhukov said after the end of WWII. "We didn’t have explosives, gunpowder. We didn’t have anything to charge our rifle cartridges with. The Americans really saved us with their gunpowder and explosives. And how much sheet steel they gave us! How could we have produced our tanks without American steel? But now they make it seem as if we had an abundance of all that. Without American trucks we wouldn’t have had anything to pull our artillery with." More than 14,000 U.S. airplanes, 8,000 of which came from Alaska, were given to the Soviet Union in the course of the war. The USSR received a total of 44,000 American jeeps, 375,883 cargo trucks, 8,071 tractors and 12,700 tanks. Additionally, 1,541,590 blankets, 331,066 liters of alcohol, 15,417,000 pairs of army boots, 106,893 tons of cotton, 2,670,000 tons of petroleum products and 4,478,000 tons of food supplies made their way into the Soviet Union. It was Soviet blood that won the battlefields, it was American logistics that put it there." You're confusing Americas self serving involvement in both WW1 and WW2, with America contibuting to the war effort for the good of the world. Just as their strategy in WW1, get involved at the last minute, supply resource starved countries with money and fire power, thereby putting those countries in debt to the US, allowing them at seat at the top to devide the spoils as they see fit, while simatainiously winning the propaganda war to paint themselves as the Victors and world saviours. When in actuality it was all strategic for their own self serving agendas. | |||
" The Russian state (over a very long period of time) has been highly dysfunctional and despotic. That's what people object to, not ordinary Russian citizens. The crimes of various successions of Russian state leaders have been extensively documented in photographic, video and firsthand written accounts. The gulags cannot be denied. The state sponsored assassinations cannot be denied. You mean just like Britain, the U.S, France, Germany Belgium, Spain, Portugal, the viking, the Egyptians, the Greek, the Christians, the jews, the muslims etc... The reason people in the west apparently dont like Russians (every Russian I have ever met has been a really nice person, my personal experience) Is because of the decades of propaganda fed to you since the battle against communism began. Despite that battle being won by capitalism, Russia is still a huge threat to the western powers due to it's own power and strength...do you think WW2 would have been won without the Russians? Do you think space exploration would exist in the state it is in, if it were not for the Russians? This is not all said out of some love for Putin by the way, he is a disgusting corrupt leader, just like all the other world leaders, but the reason the west is programmed to not like Russia is because of control, wealth and power, and the propaganda fed to you. WW2 wouldn’t have been won without the Americans or the British either. Space exploration would also be vastly different without the Americans (and the Nazi’s made a contribution as well). I don’t think anyone really disputes that each country in history has carried out acts that are heinous and reprehensible, but the OP seems to think that the Russians are kind to all, which is blatantly untrue. For example, one tactic used by the red army in Afghanistan was to scatter tiny land mines that resembled plastic butterflies. The idea was that children would pick these up… and yes, I know the Americans did bad things in Vietnam as well, the saying “we had to destroy the village in order to save it”, the my lai massacre and the use of agent orange and so on. America had very little to do with the winning of ww2, or ww1, and as for britain, they were saved by the US. As for space exploration, the Russians were the most successful and achieved the most, the US was always behind. If it were not for the need to win last propaganda war between communism and capitalism, the US would not have invested so much in space projects, and therefore, the rate of progress regarding advancements in space would be years behind where it is now. We could be here all day listing the disgusting atrocities done by the UK and US, so I wont bother replying to that part of your comment. Err we where not "saved" by the US. We where saved due to the fact we had a more powerful Navy, won the Battle of Britain and German incompetence. Germany could not gain Air Supremacy or start Operation Sealion because our Navy would of annihilated any seaborn invasion. Stuff like Lend Lease helped us and the Russians. The Russians also benfitted from German failures in leadership and stragetic planning, which is the main reason they survived." Err yes you were. Europe had fallen, all that was left was Britain, which the Germans had destroyed by air, only countered with support of Anerican pilots and and resources, but err, believe what you want!  | |||
" The Russian state (over a very long period of time) has been highly dysfunctional and despotic. That's what people object to, not ordinary Russian citizens. The crimes of various successions of Russian state leaders have been extensively documented in photographic, video and firsthand written accounts. The gulags cannot be denied. The state sponsored assassinations cannot be denied. You mean just like Britain, the U.S, France, Germany Belgium, Spain, Portugal, the viking, the Egyptians, the Greek, the Christians, the jews, the muslims etc... The reason people in the west apparently dont like Russians (every Russian I have ever met has been a really nice person, my personal experience) Is because of the decades of propaganda fed to you since the battle against communism began. Despite that battle being won by capitalism, Russia is still a huge threat to the western powers due to it's own power and strength...do you think WW2 would have been won without the Russians? Do you think space exploration would exist in the state it is in, if it were not for the Russians? This is not all said out of some love for Putin by the way, he is a disgusting corrupt leader, just like all the other world leaders, but the reason the west is programmed to not like Russia is because of control, wealth and power, and the propaganda fed to you. WW2 wouldn’t have been won without the Americans or the British either. Space exploration would also be vastly different without the Americans (and the Nazi’s made a contribution as well). I don’t think anyone really disputes that each country in history has carried out acts that are heinous and reprehensible, but the OP seems to think that the Russians are kind to all, which is blatantly untrue. For example, one tactic used by the red army in Afghanistan was to scatter tiny land mines that resembled plastic butterflies. The idea was that children would pick these up… and yes, I know the Americans did bad things in Vietnam as well, the saying “we had to destroy the village in order to save it”, the my lai massacre and the use of agent orange and so on. America had very little to do with the winning of ww2, or ww1, and as for britain, they were saved by the US. As for space exploration, the Russians were the most successful and achieved the most, the US was always behind. If it were not for the need to win last propaganda war between communism and capitalism, the US would not have invested so much in space projects, and therefore, the rate of progress regarding advancements in space would be years behind where it is now. We could be here all day listing the disgusting atrocities done by the UK and US, so I wont bother replying to that part of your comment. Utter bollocks. The fact the Americans arrived made the Germans finally give up the struggle in WW1 as it was too costly in lives and they were now outnumbered. As for WW2 the whole of the allies armed struggle would have faded without the industrial might of the US. Russia was catching up and as raw materials arrived so were we. Russia and the U.K. both out manufactured Germany and in total built 2.5 times as many planes by the end of the war. As for the US saving the U.K. actually that’s bollocks too as the men and women dying in battle in Africa Russia and the RAF saved us. The Germans couldn’t invade without air supremacy. So we probably couldn’t have won the war without America but they didn’t save us. It was a joint effort and included both the Russians and a huge effort by the then Empire countries. " To quote yourself, which contradicts you previous paragraphs, "so we probably couldn't have won the war without Anerica", followed by the contradiction of "but they didnt save us" Do you realise how many times you contradicted yourself in your last comment alone? Read my above replies, the US arrived at the end with lots of money and fire power, as per their plan to indebt all the allies, whom would have lost if not for Anerican resources, as you keep pointing out. Therefore Britain was saved by the US, as was one part of their plan all along. It does not matter what I say anyway, as im sure no matter what facts are laid out in front of you, you will still believe what you want, blinded by a false narrative and lack of a desire to admit that the "great" empire had crumbled and failed, only to be saved and duped by the yanks!  | |||
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" The Russian state (over a very long period of time) has been highly dysfunctional and despotic. That's what people object to, not ordinary Russian citizens. The crimes of various successions of Russian state leaders have been extensively documented in photographic, video and firsthand written accounts. The gulags cannot be denied. The state sponsored assassinations cannot be denied. You mean just like Britain, the U.S, France, Germany Belgium, Spain, Portugal, the viking, the Egyptians, the Greek, the Christians, the jews, the muslims etc... The reason people in the west apparently dont like Russians (every Russian I have ever met has been a really nice person, my personal experience) Is because of the decades of propaganda fed to you since the battle against communism began. Despite that battle being won by capitalism, Russia is still a huge threat to the western powers due to it's own power and strength...do you think WW2 would have been won without the Russians? Do you think space exploration would exist in the state it is in, if it were not for the Russians? This is not all said out of some love for Putin by the way, he is a disgusting corrupt leader, just like all the other world leaders, but the reason the west is programmed to not like Russia is because of control, wealth and power, and the propaganda fed to you. WW2 wouldn’t have been won without the Americans or the British either. Space exploration would also be vastly different without the Americans (and the Nazi’s made a contribution as well). I don’t think anyone really disputes that each country in history has carried out acts that are heinous and reprehensible, but the OP seems to think that the Russians are kind to all, which is blatantly untrue. For example, one tactic used by the red army in Afghanistan was to scatter tiny land mines that resembled plastic butterflies. The idea was that children would pick these up… and yes, I know the Americans did bad things in Vietnam as well, the saying “we had to destroy the village in order to save it”, the my lai massacre and the use of agent orange and so on. America had very little to do with the winning of ww2, or ww1, and as for britain, they were saved by the US. As for space exploration, the Russians were the most successful and achieved the most, the US was always behind. If it were not for the need to win last propaganda war between communism and capitalism, the US would not have invested so much in space projects, and therefore, the rate of progress regarding advancements in space would be years behind where it is now. We could be here all day listing the disgusting atrocities done by the UK and US, so I wont bother replying to that part of your comment. Utter bollocks. The fact the Americans arrived made the Germans finally give up the struggle in WW1 as it was too costly in lives and they were now outnumbered. As for WW2 the whole of the allies armed struggle would have faded without the industrial might of the US. Russia was catching up and as raw materials arrived so were we. Russia and the U.K. both out manufactured Germany and in total built 2.5 times as many planes by the end of the war. As for the US saving the U.K. actually that’s bollocks too as the men and women dying in battle in Africa Russia and the RAF saved us. The Germans couldn’t invade without air supremacy. So we probably couldn’t have won the war without America but they didn’t save us. It was a joint effort and included both the Russians and a huge effort by the then Empire countries. To quote yourself, which contradicts you previous paragraphs, "so we probably couldn't have won the war without Anerica", followed by the contradiction of "but they didnt save us" Do you realise how many times you contradicted yourself in your last comment alone? Read my above replies, the US arrived at the end with lots of money and fire power, as per their plan to indebt all the allies, whom would have lost if not for Anerican resources, as you keep pointing out. Therefore Britain was saved by the US, as was one part of their plan all along. It does not matter what I say anyway, as im sure no matter what facts are laid out in front of you, you will still believe what you want, blinded by a false narrative and lack of a desire to admit that the "great" empire had crumbled and failed, only to be saved and duped by the yanks! "I said it was unlikely we could win but we didn’t lose and weren’t beaten . The possible stalemate with both Russia and the U.K. stronger could have resulted in a different outcome. Read what I write not what you think I write!! Yes the industrial might of the US helped it did not save us . To respond another poster the backbone of the RAF was U.K. Czech and Polish . There were 9 volunteer US pilots in the RAF . The most famous was a guy called Fiske who was an Olympian. He lasted a month before being killed . Respect to those 9 . | |||
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" The Russian state (over a very long period of time) has been highly dysfunctional and despotic. That's what people object to, not ordinary Russian citizens. The crimes of various successions of Russian state leaders have been extensively documented in photographic, video and firsthand written accounts. The gulags cannot be denied. The state sponsored assassinations cannot be denied. You mean just like Britain, the U.S, France, Germany Belgium, Spain, Portugal, the viking, the Egyptians, the Greek, the Christians, the jews, the muslims etc... The reason people in the west apparently dont like Russians (every Russian I have ever met has been a really nice person, my personal experience) Is because of the decades of propaganda fed to you since the battle against communism began. Despite that battle being won by capitalism, Russia is still a huge threat to the western powers due to it's own power and strength...do you think WW2 would have been won without the Russians? Do you think space exploration would exist in the state it is in, if it were not for the Russians? This is not all said out of some love for Putin by the way, he is a disgusting corrupt leader, just like all the other world leaders, but the reason the west is programmed to not like Russia is because of control, wealth and power, and the propaganda fed to you. WW2 wouldn’t have been won without the Americans or the British either. Space exploration would also be vastly different without the Americans (and the Nazi’s made a contribution as well). I don’t think anyone really disputes that each country in history has carried out acts that are heinous and reprehensible, but the OP seems to think that the Russians are kind to all, which is blatantly untrue. For example, one tactic used by the red army in Afghanistan was to scatter tiny land mines that resembled plastic butterflies. The idea was that children would pick these up… and yes, I know the Americans did bad things in Vietnam as well, the saying “we had to destroy the village in order to save it”, the my lai massacre and the use of agent orange and so on. America had very little to do with the winning of ww2, or ww1, and as for britain, they were saved by the US. As for space exploration, the Russians were the most successful and achieved the most, the US was always behind. If it were not for the need to win last propaganda war between communism and capitalism, the US would not have invested so much in space projects, and therefore, the rate of progress regarding advancements in space would be years behind where it is now. We could be here all day listing the disgusting atrocities done by the UK and US, so I wont bother replying to that part of your comment. Utter bollocks. The fact the Americans arrived made the Germans finally give up the struggle in WW1 as it was too costly in lives and they were now outnumbered. As for WW2 the whole of the allies armed struggle would have faded without the industrial might of the US. Russia was catching up and as raw materials arrived so were we. Russia and the U.K. both out manufactured Germany and in total built 2.5 times as many planes by the end of the war. As for the US saving the U.K. actually that’s bollocks too as the men and women dying in battle in Africa Russia and the RAF saved us. The Germans couldn’t invade without air supremacy. So we probably couldn’t have won the war without America but they didn’t save us. It was a joint effort and included both the Russians and a huge effort by the then Empire countries. To quote yourself, which contradicts you previous paragraphs, "so we probably couldn't have won the war without Anerica", followed by the contradiction of "but they didnt save us" Do you realise how many times you contradicted yourself in your last comment alone? Read my above replies, the US arrived at the end with lots of money and fire power, as per their plan to indebt all the allies, whom would have lost if not for Anerican resources, as you keep pointing out. Therefore Britain was saved by the US, as was one part of their plan all along. It does not matter what I say anyway, as im sure no matter what facts are laid out in front of you, you will still believe what you want, blinded by a false narrative and lack of a desire to admit that the "great" empire had crumbled and failed, only to be saved and duped by the yanks!
I said it was unlikely we could win but we didn’t lose and weren’t beaten . The possible stalemate with both Russia and the U.K. stronger could have resulted in a different outcome. Read what I write not what you think I write!!
Yes the industrial might of the US helped it did not save us .
To respond another poster the backbone of the RAF was U.K. Czech and Polish . There were 9 volunteer US pilots in the RAF . The most famous was a guy called Fiske who was an Olympian. He lasted a month before being killed . Respect to those 9 .
"Stop contradicting yourself! If it was unlikely you could have won (it was a fact that you could not have won, stop beaing delused!), then you would have lost! Like I said, no matter what I say you will continue to live in your fantasy world as you are unable to admit Britans obvious weakness and inevitable defeat! | |||
"PS The empire didn’t crumble as most do. It was one of the few that was handed back not lost but don’t let facts get in the way of you bias and bitterness. Btw I’m not pro Empire just for the record. It helped make our elite even richer by pillaging the poor bastards around the world. Oh and we were more interested in the Caribbean sugar than the US or else we would have probably put up more of a fight to keep it. Again read the detail not the USA USA USA bollocks. We had a trade deal virtually in place before the fighting had even finished. That should tell you how eager we were to fight. " Hahaha wow, how deluded you are! It totally crumbled, for one your defeat in Ireland, which inspired other countries was the beginning of the crumble! You were in so much debt to America after WW1, you had no choice but to hand countries back, as you couldn't afford the resources to fight multiple rebellions in multiple countries on multiple continents, but dont the let the facts and stubborn pride get in the way of you living in a fantasy land. Please tell me what bias and bitterness you think I have? I have simply provided you with facts that you do not like, and you have now naturally resorted to trying to be offensive...I cannot wait to hear this! | |||
" The Russian state (over a very long period of time) has been highly dysfunctional and despotic. That's what people object to, not ordinary Russian citizens. The crimes of various successions of Russian state leaders have been extensively documented in photographic, video and firsthand written accounts. The gulags cannot be denied. The state sponsored assassinations cannot be denied. You mean just like Britain, the U.S, France, Germany Belgium, Spain, Portugal, the viking, the Egyptians, the Greek, the Christians, the jews, the muslims etc... The reason people in the west apparently dont like Russians (every Russian I have ever met has been a really nice person, my personal experience) Is because of the decades of propaganda fed to you since the battle against communism began. Despite that battle being won by capitalism, Russia is still a huge threat to the western powers due to it's own power and strength...do you think WW2 would have been won without the Russians? Do you think space exploration would exist in the state it is in, if it were not for the Russians? This is not all said out of some love for Putin by the way, he is a disgusting corrupt leader, just like all the other world leaders, but the reason the west is programmed to not like Russia is because of control, wealth and power, and the propaganda fed to you. WW2 wouldn’t have been won without the Americans or the British either. Space exploration would also be vastly different without the Americans (and the Nazi’s made a contribution as well). I don’t think anyone really disputes that each country in history has carried out acts that are heinous and reprehensible, but the OP seems to think that the Russians are kind to all, which is blatantly untrue. For example, one tactic used by the red army in Afghanistan was to scatter tiny land mines that resembled plastic butterflies. The idea was that children would pick these up… and yes, I know the Americans did bad things in Vietnam as well, the saying “we had to destroy the village in order to save it”, the my lai massacre and the use of agent orange and so on. America had very little to do with the winning of ww2, or ww1, and as for britain, they were saved by the US. As for space exploration, the Russians were the most successful and achieved the most, the US was always behind. If it were not for the need to win last propaganda war between communism and capitalism, the US would not have invested so much in space projects, and therefore, the rate of progress regarding advancements in space would be years behind where it is now. We could be here all day listing the disgusting atrocities done by the UK and US, so I wont bother replying to that part of your comment. Utter bollocks. The fact the Americans arrived made the Germans finally give up the struggle in WW1 as it was too costly in lives and they were now outnumbered. As for WW2 the whole of the allies armed struggle would have faded without the industrial might of the US. Russia was catching up and as raw materials arrived so were we. Russia and the U.K. both out manufactured Germany and in total built 2.5 times as many planes by the end of the war. As for the US saving the U.K. actually that’s bollocks too as the men and women dying in battle in Africa Russia and the RAF saved us. The Germans couldn’t invade without air supremacy. So we probably couldn’t have won the war without America but they didn’t save us. It was a joint effort and included both the Russians and a huge effort by the then Empire countries. To quote yourself, which contradicts you previous paragraphs, "so we probably couldn't have won the war without Anerica", followed by the contradiction of "but they didnt save us" Do you realise how many times you contradicted yourself in your last comment alone? Read my above replies, the US arrived at the end with lots of money and fire power, as per their plan to indebt all the allies, whom would have lost if not for Anerican resources, as you keep pointing out. Therefore Britain was saved by the US, as was one part of their plan all along. It does not matter what I say anyway, as im sure no matter what facts are laid out in front of you, you will still believe what you want, blinded by a false narrative and lack of a desire to admit that the "great" empire had crumbled and failed, only to be saved and duped by the yanks!
I said it was unlikely we could win but we didn’t lose and weren’t beaten . The possible stalemate with both Russia and the U.K. stronger could have resulted in a different outcome. Read what I write not what you think I write!!
Yes the industrial might of the US helped it did not save us .
To respond another poster the backbone of the RAF was U.K. Czech and Polish . There were 9 volunteer US pilots in the RAF . The most famous was a guy called Fiske who was an Olympian. He lasted a month before being killed . Respect to those 9 .
Stop contradicting yourself! If it was unlikely you could have won (it was a fact that you could not have won, stop beaing delused!), then you would have lost!
Like I said, no matter what I say you will continue to live in your fantasy world as you are unable to admit Britans obvious weakness and inevitable defeat! "Unlikely is not a contradiction please check your understanding of the word. Why do you claim we would have lost?? What facts are you basing that on? You do know the invasion was called off by hitler and his eastern front was about to take a beating too. Your assuming you know the outcome and I’m calling you out on that . American was critical in shortening the war but you have no idea if the Russians and the rest of the world including us would have succeeded eventually. You just don’t like the fact that we did put up a fight. Did you know the volunteer southern Irish fought against the Germans in both world wars and when they returned home were treated appallingly by their own countrymen. Vilified for fighting against hitler . You should maybe check your history on Irish attitudes before saying the British are under any false pretence . The concentration camps were called out as British propaganda . | |||
"Why are we in the west so against Russia " We are taught how to hate and told who to hate.  | |||
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" You mean just like Britain, the U.S, France, Germany Belgium, Spain, Portugal, the viking, the Egyptians, the Greek, the Christians, the jews, the muslims etc... The reason people in the west apparently dont like Russians (every Russian I have ever met has been a really nice person, my personal experience) Is because of the decades of propaganda fed to you since the battle against communism began. Despite that battle being won by capitalism, Russia is still a huge threat to the western powers due to it's own power and strength...do you think WW2 would have been won without the Russians? Do you think space exploration would exist in the state it is in, if it were not for the Russians? This is not all said out of some love for Putin by the way, he is a disgusting corrupt leader, just like all the other world leaders, but the reason the west is programmed to not like Russia is because of control, wealth and power, and the propaganda fed to you. WW2 wouldn’t have been won without the Americans or the British either. Space exploration would also be vastly different without the Americans (and the Nazi’s made a contribution as well). I don’t think anyone really disputes that each country in history has carried out acts that are heinous and reprehensible, but the OP seems to think that the Russians are kind to all, which is blatantly untrue. For example, one tactic used by the red army in Afghanistan was to scatter tiny land mines that resembled plastic butterflies. The idea was that children would pick these up… and yes, I know the Americans did bad things in Vietnam as well, the saying “we had to destroy the village in order to save it”, the my lai massacre and I said it was unlikely we could win but we didn’t lose and weren’t beaten . The possible stalemate with both Russia and the U.K. stronger could have resulted in a different outcome. Read what I write not what you think I write!! Yes the industrial might of the US helped it did not save us . To respond another poster the backbone of the RAF was U.K. Czech and Polish . There were 9 volunteer US pilots in the RAF . The most famous was a guy called Fiske who was an Olympian. He lasted a month before being killed . Respect to those 9 . Stop contradicting yourself! If it was unlikely you could have won (it was a fact that you could not have won, stop beaing delused!), then you would have lost! Like I said, no matter what I say you will continue to live in your fantasy world as you are unable to admit Britans obvious weakness and inevitable defeat! Unlikely is not a contradiction please check your understanding of the word. Why do you claim we would have lost?? What facts are you basing that on? You do know the invasion was called off by hitler and his eastern front was about to take a beating too. Your assuming you know the outcome and I’m calling you out on that . American was critical in shortening the war but you have no idea if the Russians and the rest of the world including us would have succeeded eventually. You just don’t like the fact that we did put up a fight. Did you know the volunteer southern Irish fought against the Germans in both world wars and when they returned home were treated appallingly by their own countrymen. Vilified for fighting against hitler . You should maybe check your history on Irish attitudes before saying the British are under any false pretence . The concentration camps were called out as British propaganda . " Wow looks like somebody's feelings have been hurt. Not sure why you are bringing Ireland into this? I simply used it as an example of Britains crumbeling empire! "You just dont like the fact that we put up a fight" what in the name of jebus are you talking about? You talking about me making assumptions as you make assumptions, which demonstrates how blindly hypocritical, as well as deluded you are! I'm going to take a stab in the dark here, but your problem with me is not simply the fact I am pointing out obvious flaws in your argument, but the fact that I am Irish brothers you, and you are making a huge assumption that my argument is against you, or Britain, and that I am trying to mock you in someway over your need for Anerican support, all of which is untrue. This is a thread about the Russians, and why people in the west are programmed to dislike them, but you have turned it into you needing to prove how Great Britain was and how it didnt need help, even though you have clearly demonstrated that it did, and accepted it too! You just have this empirical mindset where you cannot admit British weakness, we all get it! There is a hell of a lot more to the Irish feelings towards returning soldiers, but I'm not about to try educate a person who cannot accept facts. Simply put, those men were fighting for Britain at a time we were fighting a war against Britain. You do not have to be a genius to work out why they may have been treated with animosity, it had nothing to do with Hitler. Anyway, Russians are sound, Britain got their ass kicked, and the Americans supplied money and power at a time others had none, thereby gaining further control and power over world resources. Simple as! | |||
"In reply to “lifestooshort” my comment of bitter was uncalled for, so apologies publicly for that. I enjoy sparking the debate but that was personal and out of order. Sorry Sean . " Thank for this, apology accepted. I had not read this before replying to your other comment otherwise I would have included this in my reply, and worded thing differently, such as "britain got its ass kicked". War is a horrible thing, s country needing support for its defense is not a joking matter, nor is it a shameful matter. Ireland asked for help from Spain and France against the british, there is no stand in it. War is horrible, and propaganda is just as bad. We're all friends now, and that's the main thing. | |||
"In reply to “lifestooshort” my comment of bitter was uncalled for, so apologies publicly for that. I enjoy sparking the debate but that was personal and out of order. Sorry Sean . Thank for this, apology accepted. I had not read this before replying to your other comment otherwise I would have included this in my reply, and worded thing differently, such as "britain got its ass kicked". War is a horrible thing, s country needing support for its defense is not a joking matter, nor is it a shameful matter. Ireland asked for help from Spain and France against the british, there is no stand in it. War is horrible, and propaganda is just as bad. We're all friends now, and that's the main thing." And my family are from Cork 
But don’t let that fact get in the way either ha ha
It’s not personal and it’s not anti Irish racist . So glad we cleared that up. | |||
"The concentration camps were called out as British propaganda." Wow... I had to check twice that you'd actually really written that.  | |||
"The concentration camps were called out as British propaganda. Wow... I had to check twice that you'd actually really written that. "It was an accusation in the south of Ireland at the time. ( not everyone of course) I didn’t make it up. The fact is the British invented the concentration camp in Southern Africa . Not death camps as such but pretty shit either way. Maybe that’s where the misinformation stems from who knows . | |||
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"So am I right in saying that some on here don't believe that concentration camps existed and that it was all "propaganda"?? God i hope I have got the wrong end of the stick. "You’ve got the wrong end of the stick ! 70 years ago some southern rural Irish thought the news coming back of concentration camps was just anti German propaganda made up by the British! No one is saying anything about who believes today or not. It’s a historic comment. | |||
"Anyway my opinion is that Russia wasn’t going to go quietly as it never has . It’s history is littered with violence and it seems to be some kind of sport judging by how the regions constantly battled. Germany would have had it’s work cut out to conquer the whole country and as we found out in Afghanistan if you don’t win outright it’s never over. Personally looking at Russia today, when you see our laws being created to stifle public scrutiny which are anti press freedom and anti legal challenges along with wealth being handed to friends of Boris and co. Are we apart from the violence so different in who controls us? " . I think if you look at the violence on Manchester streets we are no different | |||
"In reply to “lifestooshort” my comment of bitter was uncalled for, so apologies publicly for that. I enjoy sparking the debate but that was personal and out of order. Sorry Sean . Thank for this, apology accepted. I had not read this before replying to your other comment otherwise I would have included this in my reply, and worded thing differently, such as "britain got its ass kicked". War is a horrible thing, s country needing support for its defense is not a joking matter, nor is it a shameful matter. Ireland asked for help from Spain and France against the british, there is no stand in it. War is horrible, and propaganda is just as bad. We're all friends now, and that's the main thing. And my family are from Cork
But don’t let that fact get in the way either ha ha
It’s not personal and it’s not anti Irish racist . So glad we cleared that up. "I'm glad we cleared that up too, respect! | |||
"The concentration camps were called out as British propaganda. Wow... I had to check twice that you'd actually really written that.
It was an accusation in the south of Ireland at the time. ( not everyone of course)
I didn’t make it up.
The fact is the British invented the concentration camp in Southern Africa . Not death camps as such but pretty shit either way. Maybe that’s where the misinformation stems from who knows .
"There is an old building in the wicklow mountains that the british used as a concentration camp of sorts during WW1. the majority of germans sent there were normal civilians. The same building was used by the Irish government during WW2 to house Germans soldiers who crashed or were collaborating with the IRA. I have never heard of anyone from rural Ireoand stating tyatcconcentration camps did not exist, although that does not make it untrue. Do you have any sources you could recommend to read on this further? | |||
" The Russian state (over a very long period of time) has been highly dysfunctional and despotic. That's what people object to, not ordinary Russian citizens. The crimes of various successions of Russian state leaders have been extensively documented in photographic, video and firsthand written accounts. The gulags cannot be denied. The state sponsored assassinations cannot be denied. You mean just like Britain, the U.S, France, Germany Belgium, Spain, Portugal, the viking, the Egyptians, the Greek, the Christians, the jews, the muslims etc... The reason people in the west apparently dont like Russians (every Russian I have ever met has been a really nice person, my personal experience) Is because of the decades of propaganda fed to you since the battle against communism began. Despite that battle being won by capitalism, Russia is still a huge threat to the western powers due to it's own power and strength...do you think WW2 would have been won without the Russians? Do you think space exploration would exist in the state it is in, if it were not for the Russians? This is not all said out of some love for Putin by the way, he is a disgusting corrupt leader, just like all the other world leaders, but the reason the west is programmed to not like Russia is because of control, wealth and power, and the propaganda fed to you. WW2 wouldn’t have been won without the Americans or the British either. Space exploration would also be vastly different without the Americans (and the Nazi’s made a contribution as well). I don’t think anyone really disputes that each country in history has carried out acts that are heinous and reprehensible, but the OP seems to think that the Russians are kind to all, which is blatantly untrue. For example, one tactic used by the red army in Afghanistan was to scatter tiny land mines that resembled plastic butterflies. The idea was that children would pick these up… and yes, I know the Americans did bad things in Vietnam as well, the saying “we had to destroy the village in order to save it”, the my lai massacre and the use of agent orange and so on. America had very little to do with the winning of ww2, or ww1, and as for britain, they were saved by the US. As for space exploration, the Russians were the most successful and achieved the most, the US was always behind. If it were not for the need to win last propaganda war between communism and capitalism, the US would not have invested so much in space projects, and therefore, the rate of progress regarding advancements in space would be years behind where it is now. We could be here all day listing the disgusting atrocities done by the UK and US, so I wont bother replying to that part of your comment. Err we where not "saved" by the US. We where saved due to the fact we had a more powerful Navy, won the Battle of Britain and German incompetence. Germany could not gain Air Supremacy or start Operation Sealion because our Navy would of annihilated any seaborn invasion. Stuff like Lend Lease helped us and the Russians. The Russians also benfitted from German failures in leadership and stragetic planning, which is the main reason they survived. Err yes you were. Europe had fallen, all that was left was Britain, which the Germans had destroyed by air, only countered with support of Anerican pilots and and resources, but err, believe what you want! "Utter rubbish. | |||
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"Why is China a problem I don't see it " This is not a huge surprise. | |||
"The concentration camps were called out as British propaganda. Wow... I had to check twice that you'd actually really written that.
It was an accusation in the south of Ireland at the time. ( not everyone of course)
I didn’t make it up.
The fact is the British invented the concentration camp in Southern Africa . Not death camps as such but pretty shit either way. Maybe that’s where the misinformation stems from who knows .
There is an old building in the wicklow mountains that the british used as a concentration camp of sorts during WW1. the majority of germans sent there were normal civilians. The same building was used by the Irish government during WW2 to house Germans soldiers who crashed or were collaborating with the IRA.
I have never heard of anyone from rural Ireoand stating tyatcconcentration camps did not exist, although that does not make it untrue. Do you have any sources you could recommend to read on this further?
"This is where I got the ref from. I’m not recommending the book it just contains the quote from a returning soldier “Returning Home” written by Galway historian Bernard Kelly, | |||
"Why is China a problem I don't see it "  | |||
"Why are we in the west so against Russia " Politics!, a common enemy so arms manufacturers can make money from the taxpayer, Politicians can unite the public against an "enemy /threat" blame Russia to deflect from their colossal fuck ups, and also justify their jobs, spending colossal smounts of money on themselves, vanity projects, lign their pockets, thrir rich chums pockets while shouting "look over there" to divert your attention to what's happening | |||
"Why are we in the west so against Russia Politics!, a common enemy so arms manufacturers can make money from the taxpayer, Politicians can unite the public against an "enemy /threat" blame Russia to deflect from their colossal fuck ups, and also justify their jobs, spending colossal smounts of money on themselves, vanity projects, lign their pockets, thrir rich chums pockets while shouting "look over there" to divert your attention to what's happening " . I agree ??% | |||
"Why are we in the west so against Russia " Because the Russian state is openly and deliberately destabilising other countries for their own benefit. That would make them unpopular with any county that they are acting against. Easy answer. | |||
"Well, Vlad just invaded Ukraine a while back and no one said a goddamn word But Russia aren't the problem China is" 65% of the Crimea are ethnically Russian and had rejected Ukraine's Prime Minister a month prior so it's not quite as simple as that. | |||
"Why are we in the west so against Russia Because the Russian state is openly and deliberately destabilising other countries for their own benefit. That would make them unpopular with any county that they are acting against. Easy answer." Another one who believes what he told about Russia by the western media try going there , living there I had more homophobia and racism on the streets of Manchester than Moscow | |||
"Why are we in the west so against Russia Because the Russian state is openly and deliberately destabilising other countries for their own benefit. That would make them unpopular with any county that they are acting against. Easy answer. Another one who believes what he told about Russia by the western media try going there , living there I had more homophobia and racism on the streets of Manchester than Moscow" Should I believe what I am told by the Russian media instead? | |||
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"Because they won WW2" They never had a ww1 they had a great patriotic war with the defeat of nazi and fascism. | |||
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"Because they won WW2 They never had a ww1 they had a great patriotic war with the defeat of nazi and fascism." They where involved in ww1. It ended when the Russian Revolution happened and Bolshviks control on the country The Great Patriotic War was just their name for ww2 which was taken from the name of Russian resistance to the French invasion of Russia under Napoleon | |||
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"Because they won WW2 They never had a ww1 they had a great patriotic war with the defeat of nazi and fascism." 1914 to 1917 Russian involvement in WW1. | |||
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"when i lived in russia i found the people liked putin very much i wonder how long it is before we blame russia for gas shortages we may get" You ask why people didnt like russians i gave you my opinion. | |||
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"There are two parts to it - Russian government and Russian people. The hatred for Russian government and Putin is obvious. Their current leadership is everything opposite to what an ideal democracy. That's also the reason why the West hates the Chinese government. About people, I don't think most people from Western countries hate the Russian people per se. A survey will give mixed results. The ones who hate could do so for multiple reasons. A huge section of the population (maybe majority?) actually support Putin. Some Western conservatives hate the Russians because they probably think the Russian people are all still communists. Some Western liberals hate Russian people because most Russians don't care for Western liberal behaviour like virtue signalling, symbolism etc. From my limited interactions, I find Russian people to be straight forward and friendly. Their moral compass is slightly different from mine though." Do we have democracy here ? Less than 50% voted for Johnson and in Scotland most voted SNP so no democracy there | |||
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"There are two parts to it - Russian government and Russian people. The hatred for Russian government and Putin is obvious. Their current leadership is everything opposite to what an ideal democracy. That's also the reason why the West hates the Chinese government. About people, I don't think most people from Western countries hate the Russian people per se. A survey will give mixed results. The ones who hate could do so for multiple reasons. A huge section of the population (maybe majority?) actually support Putin. Some Western conservatives hate the Russians because they probably think the Russian people are all still communists. Some Western liberals hate Russian people because most Russians don't care for Western liberal behaviour like virtue signalling, symbolism etc. From my limited interactions, I find Russian people to be straight forward and friendly. Their moral compass is slightly different from mine though. Do we have democracy here ? Less than 50% voted for Johnson and in Scotland most voted SNP so no democracy there " We could argue about the pros and cons of FPTP against other systems which would be outside the topic. But the outcome is based on a free election, something which doesn't happen in Russia/China. | |||
" Do we have democracy here ? Less than 50% voted for Johnson and in Scotland most voted SNP so no democracy there " You are confusing the notion of Democracy with as a 'percentage' of voting. Democracy is the ability to choose your governance by individual vote. Democracy also allows for you to choose not too. So. Yes. We do have Democracy. Regardless of how many voted. | |||
"There are two parts to it - Russian government and Russian people. The hatred for Russian government and Putin is obvious. Their current leadership is everything opposite to what an ideal democracy. That's also the reason why the West hates the Chinese government. About people, I don't think most people from Western countries hate the Russian people per se. A survey will give mixed results. The ones who hate could do so for multiple reasons. A huge section of the population (maybe majority?) actually support Putin. Some Western conservatives hate the Russians because they probably think the Russian people are all still communists. Some Western liberals hate Russian people because most Russians don't care for Western liberal behaviour like virtue signalling, symbolism etc. From my limited interactions, I find Russian people to be straight forward and friendly. Their moral compass is slightly different from mine though. Do we have democracy here ? Less than 50% voted for Johnson and in Scotland most voted SNP so no democracy there " Maybe so but at least people have the opportunity to oppose him in an election and are not either barred or even worse locked up. | |||
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" The Russian state (over a very long period of time) has been highly dysfunctional and despotic. That's what people object to, not ordinary Russian citizens. The crimes of various successions of Russian state leaders have been extensively documented in photographic, video and firsthand written accounts. The gulags cannot be denied. The state sponsored assassinations cannot be denied. You mean just like Britain, the U.S, France, Germany Belgium, Spain, Portugal, the viking, the Egyptians, the Greek, the Christians, the jews, the muslims etc... The reason people in the west apparently dont like Russians (every Russian I have ever met has been a really nice person, my personal experience) Is because of the decades of propaganda fed to you since the battle against communism began. Despite that battle being won by capitalism, Russia is still a huge threat to the western powers due to it's own power and strength...do you think WW2 would have been won without the Russians? Do you think space exploration would exist in the state it is in, if it were not for the Russians? This is not all said out of some love for Putin by the way, he is a disgusting corrupt leader, just like all the other world leaders, but the reason the west is programmed to not like Russia is because of control, wealth and power, and the propaganda fed to you." And yet repeatedly on here people have stated they don’t hate Russia or Russians so your argument is baseless and the West’s so called propaganda seems to have failed. . We don’t like the government in Russia we all agree that. Otherwise there is no bad feeling towards Russians themselves so you’re shouting into the wind all by yourself . The Russians have suffered with most of their last 100 years worth of leaders with the exception of Yeltsin ( not capable) and Gorbachev. The latter risking his own life and gave up power for the Russian people. Russia’s history prior to communism is hundreds of years of chronic violence between rival states, the Tsars arrival was the result of being the most fearsome so the leaders in their history have always been strongmen. Sadly strongmen as with Putin tend not to give a flying fuck about the people. | |||
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" The Russian state (over a very long period of time) has been highly dysfunctional and despotic. That's what people object to, not ordinary Russian citizens. The crimes of various successions of Russian state leaders have been extensively documented in photographic, video and firsthand written accounts. The gulags cannot be denied. The state sponsored assassinations cannot be denied. You mean just like Britain, the U.S, France, Germany Belgium, Spain, Portugal, the viking, the Egyptians, the Greek, the Christians, the jews, the muslims etc... The reason people in the west apparently dont like Russians (every Russian I have ever met has been a really nice person, my personal experience) Is because of the decades of propaganda fed to you since the battle against communism began. Despite that battle being won by capitalism, Russia is still a huge threat to the western powers due to it's own power and strength...do you think WW2 would have been won without the Russians? Do you think space exploration would exist in the state it is in, if it were not for the Russians? This is not all said out of some love for Putin by the way, he is a disgusting corrupt leader, just like all the other world leaders, but the reason the west is programmed to not like Russia is because of control, wealth and power, and the propaganda fed to you. And yet repeatedly on here people have stated they don’t hate Russia or Russians so your argument is baseless and the West’s so called propaganda seems to have failed. . We don’t like the government in Russia we all agree that. Otherwise there is no bad feeling towards Russians themselves so you’re shouting into the wind all by yourself . The Russians have suffered with most of their last 100 years worth of leaders with the exception of Yeltsin ( not capable) and Gorbachev. The latter risking his own life and gave up power for the Russian people. Russia’s history prior to communism is hundreds of years of chronic violence between rival states, the Tsars arrival was the result of being the most fearsome so the leaders in their history have always been strongmen. Sadly strongmen as with Putin tend not to give a flying fuck about the people. " I would substitute strong for psychotic sociopath | |||
"Are we? The press maybe. But the average person isn't against the average Russian. I am against russians, and I'm half-russian myself... 75% of russian vermin support invasion of Ukraine... Is that a good enough reason to be "against them" ? " Then it would be more accurate to say you're against people who support Russia's invasion? | |||
" The Russian state (over a very long period of time) has been highly dysfunctional and despotic. That's what people object to, not ordinary Russian citizens. The crimes of various successions of Russian state leaders have been extensively documented in photographic, video and firsthand written accounts. The gulags cannot be denied. The state sponsored assassinations cannot be denied. You mean just like Britain, the U.S, France, Germany Belgium, Spain, Portugal, the viking, the Egyptians, the Greek, the Christians, the jews, the muslims etc... The reason people in the west apparently dont like Russians (every Russian I have ever met has been a really nice person, my personal experience) Is because of the decades of propaganda fed to you since the battle against communism began. Despite that battle being won by capitalism, Russia is still a huge threat to the western powers due to it's own power and strength...do you think WW2 would have been won without the Russians? Do you think space exploration would exist in the state it is in, if it were not for the Russians? This is not all said out of some love for Putin by the way, he is a disgusting corrupt leader, just like all the other world leaders, but the reason the west is programmed to not like Russia is because of control, wealth and power, and the propaganda fed to you. And yet repeatedly on here people have stated they don’t hate Russia or Russians so your argument is baseless and the West’s so called propaganda seems to have failed. . We don’t like the government in Russia we all agree that. Otherwise there is no bad feeling towards Russians themselves so you’re shouting into the wind all by yourself . The Russians have suffered with most of their last 100 years worth of leaders with the exception of Yeltsin ( not capable) and Gorbachev. The latter risking his own life and gave up power for the Russian people. Russia’s history prior to communism is hundreds of years of chronic violence between rival states, the Tsars arrival was the result of being the most fearsome so the leaders in their history have always been strongmen. Sadly strongmen as with Putin tend not to give a flying fuck about the people. I would substitute strong for psychotic sociopath "Yes true with Putin | |||
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"I don't think anyone here is anti-Russian, per se, but Russia hasn't exactly done itself proud in its choice of leaders... and it's those leaders Brits take issue with. And quite rightly too. Perhaps, living in a country where a corrupt psychotic despot like Putin or Lukashenko would've been booted out decades ago, we can't help feeling a reluctance to respect a population who hasn't done that for themselves already after it's gone on so long already. Don't get me wrong - I don't think Russians are are really cowards, I know for a fact that many are not... but they desperately need to stand up and tackle their home-grown despot addiction." Not done themselves proud in "choice" of leaders. Rather naive to assume that the population actually have a choice when opposition leaders are jailed/poisoned etc and international observers have shown results to be rigged. Russia has gone back to the same dictatorship that the Soviet Union was back in the day. To the OP...I fir one (and I'm sure most others) have nothing against Russian population who are been fed lies and manipulated daily. The problem is with the kleptocracy at the top! | |||
"I don't think anyone here is anti-Russian, per se, but Russia hasn't exactly done itself proud in its choice of leaders... and it's those leaders Brits take issue with. And quite rightly too. Perhaps, living in a country where a corrupt psychotic despot like Putin or Lukashenko would've been booted out decades ago, we can't help feeling a reluctance to respect a population who hasn't done that for themselves already after it's gone on so long already. Don't get me wrong - I don't think Russians are are really cowards, I know for a fact that many are not... but they desperately need to stand up and tackle their home-grown despot addiction. Not done themselves proud in "choice" of leaders. Rather naive to assume that the population actually have a choice when opposition leaders are jailed/poisoned etc and international observers have shown results to be rigged. Russia has gone back to the same dictatorship that the Soviet Union was back in the day. To the OP...I fir one (and I'm sure most others) have nothing against Russian population who are been fed lies and manipulated daily. The problem is with the kleptocracy at the top!" Exactly my thoughts too. | |||
"My husband worked in Russia for years, loved it, said it was like the wild west. But once you get a few thousand miles from Moscow it's a different world. Just like the rest of the world's population there are nice people, not so nice people, dickheads and normal folks. Pretty much like FAB. Sadly, the main reason people don't like others is generally bigotry and ignorance. " They're all the same. | |||
"I don't think anyone here is anti-Russian, per se, but Russia hasn't exactly done itself proud in its choice of leaders... and it's those leaders Brits take issue with. And quite rightly too. Perhaps, living in a country where a corrupt psychotic despot like Putin or Lukashenko would've been booted out decades ago, we can't help feeling a reluctance to respect a population who hasn't done that for themselves already after it's gone on so long already. Don't get me wrong - I don't think Russians are are really cowards, I know for a fact that many are not... but they desperately need to stand up and tackle their home-grown despot addiction. Not done themselves proud in "choice" of leaders. Rather naive to assume that the population actually have a choice when opposition leaders are jailed/poisoned etc and international observers have shown results to be rigged. Russia has gone back to the same dictatorship that the Soviet Union was back in the day. To the OP...I fir one (and I'm sure most others) have nothing against Russian population who are been fed lies and manipulated daily. The problem is with the kleptocracy at the top!" It appears those poor squaddies that were thrown into a war they didn't want made a pretty good job of assassinating poor innocent Ukrainian civilians. I don't hate all Russians but they're making it hard to like them. | |||
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"Why are we in the west so against Russia " Reading through this thread it looks like you have a list of rehearsed answers and "talking points". Why might a country with fully state controlled media agree with it's government? How could a country of millions have no opposition whatsoever and such a popular leadership in place for so long? Is Russia really victimised and threatened by it's smaller, less well armed and funded neighbours? Can you acknowledge that nobody has any hatred of the Russian people but can have a strong dislike of Russia's leadership? | |||
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"Because the Russian armed forces commit war crimes as part of their standard doctrines and they violently suppress dissent." If you think about their literature and art, there is a lot to be admired. It's just that tiny problem with committing the occasional genocide that makes them seem a little... 
Met quite a few people in eastern Europe that remember how they were treated by the Russians, villages wiped out etc...
It's like that girl you have a crush on, you want to get her into bed, but are worried about waking up with a knife in your chest. | |||
"Because for years they have been portrayed as the bad guys through the cold war era." Do you think maybe recent real world events may be a tiny factor too? | |||
"So you say that the west does not get involved in these dirty tricks Of course, Russian tsar and his supporters are just more willing to do transparent and obvious gaslighting which grates more with people. Oops, I meant president. Putin is very popular in Russia people love him But do they realise he has siphoned off the equivalent of 51 billion dollars. That’s his net worth. Outside of Moscow & St Petersburg the rest of Russia is third world. He’s the biggest thief in history! and did you read that in the Washington post" If you think it's so great why dont you just.... there ? | |||
