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USA/UK/Taliban relations
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By *V-Alice OP TV/TS
over a year ago
Ayr |
I'm of the opinion that the Taliban are unlikely to change their ways, They could - but they certainly aren't being encouraged to, particularly by the USA and the UK.
It seems very clear that our government, and that of the USA, are happy to threaten them with sanctions and bankruptcy, leading to further warfare, death, suffering and probably starvation - unless they do as they're told; by the very countries they just defeated.
Clearly, the USA and UK do not want the Taliban to change - they want them to fail - and they're content to see the women and children of Afghanistan suffer all manner of horrors, in addition to not being treated the way they ought to be by their men.
Rather than try and help them change, they'd rather have another Syria on their hands.
It shows just how paper-thin their commitment to improving Afghanistan really was; now that they're throwing their toys out of the pram because they aren't in charge any more.
I know plenty of people will disagree with me on this - fair enough. But, if the USA and the UK aren't going to try and help the Taliban progress to becoming a government, rather than a gang, - the Chinese, the Russians and the Pakistanis will be quite content to prop up the gang ...
and then all that time, money and human life really will have been wasted for fuck all. |
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By *ovebjsMan
over a year ago
Bristol |
As long as it’s a Muslim country it’s always going to be a Fuck-up they the Taliban dose not have the same values as the west and will enforce sharia law which means women take second place in all things, being openly gay will be punished.
There will be public beatings and executions and no amount of talking will stop that 
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By *atEvolutionCouple
over a year ago
atlantisEVOLUTION Swingers Club. Stoke |
I might also add that you simply cannot occupy a country into submission. History has proved that time and time again.
It can only ever change from within with the will of its own population. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"As long as it’s a Muslim country it’s always going to be a Fuck-up they the Taliban dose not have the same values as the west and will enforce sharia law which means women take second place in all things, being openly gay will be punished.
There will be public beatings and executions and no amount of talking will stop that
"
Are all ‘Muslim countries’ ‘fuck ups’? It is regrettable but we have to realise and accept that we can’t impose and force our values and ‘ways of life’ on countries that in reality don’t want them . |
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"I'm of the opinion that the Taliban are unlikely to change their ways, They could - but they certainly aren't being encouraged to, particularly by the USA and the UK.
It seems very clear that our government, and that of the USA, are happy to threaten them with sanctions and bankruptcy, leading to further warfare, death, suffering and probably starvation - unless they do as they're told; by the very countries they just defeated.
Clearly, the USA and UK do not want the Taliban to change - they want them to fail - and they're content to see the women and children of Afghanistan suffer all manner of horrors, in addition to not being treated the way they ought to be by their men.
Rather than try and help them change, they'd rather have another Syria on their hands.
It shows just how paper-thin their commitment to improving Afghanistan really was; now that they're throwing their toys out of the pram because they aren't in charge any more.
I know plenty of people will disagree with me on this - fair enough. But, if the USA and the UK aren't going to try and help the Taliban progress to becoming a government, rather than a gang, - the Chinese, the Russians and the Pakistanis will be quite content to prop up the gang ...
and then all that time, money and human life really will have been wasted for fuck all."
Its not just the UK and the USA, its how the entire Western world deals with them that will have an effect in the outcome of what happens to Afghanistan and its people and the path they choose. |
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By *estivalMan
over a year ago
borehamwood |
Of course they are threatening the taliban,got to keep them angry for when we go back in 3 or 4 years,got to keep the wars going theres to much money to lose if we dont keep fighting with someone |
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By *eroy1000Man
over a year ago
milton keynes |
"I'm of the opinion that the Taliban are unlikely to change their ways, They could - but they certainly aren't being encouraged to, particularly by the USA and the UK.
It seems very clear that our government, and that of the USA, are happy to threaten them with sanctions and bankruptcy, leading to further warfare, death, suffering and probably starvation - unless they do as they're told; by the very countries they just defeated.
Clearly, the USA and UK do not want the Taliban to change - they want them to fail - and they're content to see the women and children of Afghanistan suffer all manner of horrors, in addition to not being treated the way they ought to be by their men.
Rather than try and help them change, they'd rather have another Syria on their hands.
It shows just how paper-thin their commitment to improving Afghanistan really was; now that they're throwing their toys out of the pram because they aren't in charge any more.
I know plenty of people will disagree with me on this - fair enough. But, if the USA and the UK aren't going to try and help the Taliban progress to becoming a government, rather than a gang, - the Chinese, the Russians and the Pakistanis will be quite content to prop up the gang ...
and then all that time, money and human life really will have been wasted for fuck all."
I heard an interesting clip on the radio today about the possibility of the west using air power and possibly more in the future over there. Not against the Taliban but supporting them if ISIS start gaining the upper hand. I never knew it but apparently they are sworn enemies. It would be surreal if it happened |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"As long as it’s a Muslim country it’s always going to be a Fuck-up they the Taliban dose not have the same values as the west and will enforce sharia law which means women take second place in all things, being openly gay will be punished.
There will be public beatings and executions and no amount of talking will stop that
Are all ‘Muslim countries’ ‘fuck ups’? It is regrettable but we have to realise and accept that we can’t impose and force our values and ‘ways of life’ on countries that in reality don’t want them . "
You can when the "way of life" includes murdering and butchering each other over how many times a day they pray. Or dropping people off roofs because they like cock? Or stoning women to death? We can't just roll over and ignore that? Because if we do the issue just keeps on going on and on and on? Where does it stop? I wonder if the Afghans running for their lives right now, if they can, feel like it should just carry on? |
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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago
Grantham |
"I'm of the opinion that the Taliban are unlikely to change their ways, They could - but they certainly aren't being encouraged to, particularly by the USA and the UK.
It seems very clear that our government, and that of the USA, are happy to threaten them with sanctions and bankruptcy, leading to further warfare, death, suffering and probably starvation - unless they do as they're told; by the very countries they just defeated.
Clearly, the USA and UK do not want the Taliban to change - they want them to fail - and they're content to see the women and children of Afghanistan suffer all manner of horrors, in addition to not being treated the way they ought to be by their men.
Rather than try and help them change, they'd rather have another Syria on their hands.
It shows just how paper-thin their commitment to improving Afghanistan really was; now that they're throwing their toys out of the pram because they aren't in charge any more.
I know plenty of people will disagree with me on this - fair enough. But, if the USA and the UK aren't going to try and help the Taliban progress to becoming a government, rather than a gang, - the Chinese, the Russians and the Pakistanis will be quite content to prop up the gang ...
and then all that time, money and human life really will have been wasted for fuck all.
I heard an interesting clip on the radio today about the possibility of the west using air power and possibly more in the future over there. Not against the Taliban but supporting them if ISIS start gaining the upper hand. I never knew it but apparently they are sworn enemies. It would be surreal if it happened"
They may well do. A senior CIA chief had a meeting with top Taliban leaders in Doha a few weeks ago.
The Taliban are certainly the lesser of the two evils. |
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By *ovebjsMan
over a year ago
Bristol |
"As long as it’s a Muslim country it’s always going to be a Fuck-up they the Taliban dose not have the same values as the west and will enforce sharia law which means women take second place in all things, being openly gay will be punished.
There will be public beatings and executions and no amount of talking will stop that
Are all ‘Muslim countries’ ‘fuck ups’? It is regrettable but we have to realise and accept that we can’t impose and force our values and ‘ways of life’ on countries that in reality don’t want them . "
Yes true I suppose fuck-ups is a bit of a generalisation  but how many Muslim countries let you criticise their government without fear of getting arrested or even killed ?
They are best left alone to sort themselves out with no interference from western countries.
As someone already said they will only evolve on their own just like every other country has done.
Let’s face it the uk was quite a barbaric place to live at one time  |
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"Of course they are threatening the taliban,got to keep them angry for when we go back in 3 or 4 years,got to keep the wars going theres to much money to lose if we dont keep fighting with someone"
You wonder why they pulled out in the 1st place. I know the Afghan government was inept, but the way Biden went about the whole pull out was reckless. No point blaming Trump for the original plan, Biden is the US president, he could easily have pulled out of that agreement with the Taliban, like Trump did with the Iran nuclear deal or the Climate treaty. I rooted for Biden during the elections, but on this, he screwed up!  |
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"I'm of the opinion that the Taliban are unlikely to change their ways, They could - but they certainly aren't being encouraged to, particularly by the USA and the UK.
It seems very clear that our government, and that of the USA, are happy to threaten them with sanctions and bankruptcy, leading to further warfare, death, suffering and probably starvation - unless they do as they're told; by the very countries they just defeated.
Clearly, the USA and UK do not want the Taliban to change - they want them to fail - and they're content to see the women and children of Afghanistan suffer all manner of horrors, in addition to not being treated the way they ought to be by their men.
Rather than try and help them change, they'd rather have another Syria on their hands.
It shows just how paper-thin their commitment to improving Afghanistan really was; now that they're throwing their toys out of the pram because they aren't in charge any more.
I know plenty of people will disagree with me on this - fair enough. But, if the USA and the UK aren't going to try and help the Taliban progress to becoming a government, rather than a gang, - the Chinese, the Russians and the Pakistanis will be quite content to prop up the gang ...
and then all that time, money and human life really will have been wasted for fuck all.
I heard an interesting clip on the radio today about the possibility of the west using air power and possibly more in the future over there. Not against the Taliban but supporting them if ISIS start gaining the upper hand. I never knew it but apparently they are sworn enemies. It would be surreal if it happened
They may well do. A senior CIA chief had a meeting with top Taliban leaders in Doha a few weeks ago.
The Taliban are certainly the lesser of the two evils. "
A lot of their fighters will go wherever they can make money it was the opium trade with the Taliban now they are trying to go legitimate if they cant pay the fighters they will just go over to isis |
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By *estivalMan
over a year ago
borehamwood |
"Of course they are threatening the taliban,got to keep them angry for when we go back in 3 or 4 years,got to keep the wars going theres to much money to lose if we dont keep fighting with someone
You wonder why they pulled out in the 1st place. I know the Afghan government was inept, but the way Biden went about the whole pull out was reckless. No point blaming Trump for the original plan, Biden is the US president, he could easily have pulled out of that agreement with the Taliban, like Trump did with the Iran nuclear deal or the Climate treaty. I rooted for Biden during the elections, but on this, he screwed up! "
trump biden republicans democrats it dont really matter there pretty much the same when you get to the top table,genuine question do u really belive biden is gona be any better than trump? Only thing i liked about trump was the entertainment,with biden i sort of feel a little bit sorry for him,he seems to be going downhill rapidly |
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By *estivalMan
over a year ago
borehamwood |
"As long as it’s a Muslim country it’s always going to be a Fuck-up they the Taliban dose not have the same values as the west and will enforce sharia law which means women take second place in all things, being openly gay will be punished.
There will be public beatings and executions and no amount of talking will stop that
Are all ‘Muslim countries’ ‘fuck ups’? It is regrettable but we have to realise and accept that we can’t impose and force our values and ‘ways of life’ on countries that in reality don’t want them .
Yes true I suppose fuck-ups is a bit of a generalisation but how many Muslim countries let you criticise their government without fear of getting arrested or even killed ?
They are best left alone to sort themselves out with no interference from western countries.
As someone already said they will only evolve on their own just like every other country has done.
Let’s face it the uk was quite a barbaric place to live at one time "
i dont think a lot of people know about a lot of our history,the people who have killed more english than anyone else in war are other english people |
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ay, theres nothing wrong with most of their ideas, women stay at home, raise babies and stand by sink while men go to pub..... whatever happened to the men only working mens club! 
Jeez careful ladies, half the men in the uk would vote taliban or 1930s britain
smack that kid... transexual... transexual !!!! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I'm of the opinion that the Taliban are unlikely to change their ways, They could - but they certainly aren't being encouraged to, particularly by the USA and the UK.
It seems very clear that our government, and that of the USA, are happy to threaten them with sanctions and bankruptcy, leading to further warfare, death, suffering and probably starvation - unless they do as they're told; by the very countries they just defeated.
Clearly, the USA and UK do not want the Taliban to change - they want them to fail - and they're content to see the women and children of Afghanistan suffer all manner of horrors, in addition to not being treated the way they ought to be by their men.
Rather than try and help them change, they'd rather have another Syria on their hands.
It shows just how paper-thin their commitment to improving Afghanistan really was; now that they're throwing their toys out of the pram because they aren't in charge any more.
I know plenty of people will disagree with me on this - fair enough. But, if the USA and the UK aren't going to try and help the Taliban progress to becoming a government, rather than a gang, - the Chinese, the Russians and the Pakistanis will be quite content to prop up the gang ...
and then all that time, money and human life really will have been wasted for fuck all."
Agree totally  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"As long as it’s a Muslim country it’s always going to be a Fuck-up they the Taliban dose not have the same values as the west and will enforce sharia law which means women take second place in all things, being openly gay will be punished.
There will be public beatings and executions and no amount of talking will stop that
"
That could easily apply to Saudi Arabia., yet is thriving because the west allows it, yet encourage the failure of and civilian suffering of other countries thst don't play the game |
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The Taliban will be propped up by Russia and China on the understanding that any terrorist acts are directed to the western nations. Not that anyone will admit to it of course but since every western proposed, sensible UN resolution can be and usually is stopped by Russian and Chinese abstentions, what do you expect. |
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"The Taliban will be propped up by Russia and China on the understanding that any terrorist acts are directed to the western nations. Not that anyone will admit to it of course but since every western proposed, sensible UN resolution can be and usually is stopped by Russian and Chinese abstentions, what do you expect. "
Russia will want nothing to do with Afghanistan after there last dealings with it.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"As long as it’s a Muslim country it’s always going to be a Fuck-up they the Taliban dose not have the same values as the west and will enforce sharia law which means women take second place in all things, being openly gay will be punished.
There will be public beatings and executions and no amount of talking will stop that
Are all ‘Muslim countries’ ‘fuck ups’? It is regrettable but we have to realise and accept that we can’t impose and force our values and ‘ways of life’ on countries that in reality don’t want them .
You can when the "way of life" includes murdering and butchering each other over how many times a day they pray. Or dropping people off roofs because they like cock? Or stoning women to death? We can't just roll over and ignore that? Because if we do the issue just keeps on going on and on and on? Where does it stop? I wonder if the Afghans running for their lives right now, if they can, feel like it should just carry on? "
Yet as an ex military man myself who has seen such things first hand we ignore those very things when it done by countries like Kuiwait or lets say Suadia Arabia right?
But then those countries play ball when it comes to oil.
Look at poor Syria they have gone through hell with many atrocities such as the barrel bombing of residential areas but... we let them effectively crack on alone for many years now as getting involved doesn't benefit us.
You can't become the worlds policeman and take the moral high ground only when it suits us. Our utter hypocrisy is why are so hated in many parts of the world.
The thing to ask when the western powers do anything in other countries is "Cui Bono"
KJ |
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By *V-Alice OP TV/TS
over a year ago
Ayr |
"Some things you cannot change.
We never should have been there to start with. We in the West should stop trying to be the Policemen of the World.
"
Agreed. However, I can't help but consider what the USA did post-WWII. They rebuilt Japan, Germany and much of Western Europe - and after losing far more people in combating regimes that were, arguably, far more extreme in their inhumanity than the Taliban are.
Obviously, there are many differences between then and now; the two main ones being the economics of the current era and the fact that, unlike in Japan and Germany, the evil arseholes weren't defeated.
That said, if the USA/UK (and the rest of the West) really believe in a "rules based order", then helping to encourage it - rather than bombing countries which disagree (and are weak enough to be thus abused) - might be the way to go.
Walking the walk IS a lot more difficult than talking the talk - and we can't, realistically, change the world; but we can, at least, make the effort to prove, through deeds, that we truly believe in the values we espouse and defend. Can't we?
If we don't, it just makes life easier for the regimes that don't believe in human rights. |
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By *V-Alice OP TV/TS
over a year ago
Ayr |
"As long as it’s a Muslim country it’s always going to be a Fuck-up they the Taliban dose not have the same values as the west and will enforce sharia law which means women take second place in all things, being openly gay will be punished.
There will be public beatings and executions and no amount of talking will stop that
Are all ‘Muslim countries’ ‘fuck ups’? It is regrettable but we have to realise and accept that we can’t impose and force our values and ‘ways of life’ on countries that in reality don’t want them .
You can when the "way of life" includes murdering and butchering each other over how many times a day they pray. Or dropping people off roofs because they like cock? Or stoning women to death? We can't just roll over and ignore that? Because if we do the issue just keeps on going on and on and on? Where does it stop? I wonder if the Afghans running for their lives right now, if they can, feel like it should just carry on?
Yet as an ex military man myself who has seen such things first hand we ignore those very things when it done by countries like Kuiwait or lets say Suadia Arabia right?
But then those countries play ball when it comes to oil.
Look at poor Syria they have gone through hell with many atrocities such as the barrel bombing of residential areas but... we let them effectively crack on alone for many years now as getting involved doesn't benefit us.
You can't become the worlds policeman and take the moral high ground only when it suits us. Our utter hypocrisy is why are so hated in many parts of the world.
The thing to ask when the western powers do anything in other countries is "Cui Bono"
KJ"
Agreed. Which is why, very difficult though it may be; I think a change of approach might be worth a try. |
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By *V-Alice OP TV/TS
over a year ago
Ayr |
"The Taliban will be propped up by Russia and China on the understanding that any terrorist acts are directed to the western nations. Not that anyone will admit to it of course but since every western proposed, sensible UN resolution can be and usually is stopped by Russian and Chinese abstentions, what do you expect. Russia will want nothing to do with Afghanistan after there last dealings with it."
You'd think so - and I hope you're right - but, these days, who knows? Putin might want to give them weapons and training to protect themselves against US/UK drone attacks. Anything's possible with that guy. |
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"The Taliban will be propped up by Russia and China on the understanding that any terrorist acts are directed to the western nations. Not that anyone will admit to it of course but since every western proposed, sensible UN resolution can be and usually is stopped by Russian and Chinese abstentions, what do you expect. Russia will want nothing to do with Afghanistan after there last dealings with it.
You'd think so - and I hope you're right - but, these days, who knows? Putin might want to give them weapons and training to protect themselves against US/UK drone attacks. Anything's possible with that guy."
I think they have more weapons than they know what to do with at the moment. If either want to get involved it will cost them billions as feeding the nation is the next big problem, i honestly cant see either going anywhere near they love seeing the west spending loads of money on it. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Poverty is the breeding ground for extremism, while we have poverty we will have places ripe to be exploited by extremists, and you can’t fix poverty with guns. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The Taliban will be propped up by Russia and China on the understanding that any terrorist acts are directed to the western nations. Not that anyone will admit to it of course but since every western proposed, sensible UN resolution can be and usually is stopped by Russian and Chinese abstentions, what do you expect. Russia will want nothing to do with Afghanistan after there last dealings with it.
You'd think so - and I hope you're right - but, these days, who knows? Putin might want to give them weapons and training to protect themselves against US/UK drone attacks. Anything's possible with that guy."
They already have modern Russian
gear. That picture of the "Badri 313 Squadron" which was supposed to be mocking the US Marines at Iwo Jima, many media outlets reported them in US kit. They where in mostly Russian SF kit, including NVG's, plate carriers and helmets. The only thing US about them was the ACOG's on there ak103's |
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"Poverty is the breeding ground for extremism, while we have poverty we will have places ripe to be exploited by extremists, and you can’t fix poverty with guns."
I suppose it depends which end of the gun you're stood at? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"As long as it’s a Muslim country it’s always going to be a Fuck-up they the Taliban dose not have the same values as the west and will enforce sharia law which means women take second place in all things, being openly gay will be punished.
There will be public beatings and executions and no amount of talking will stop that
Are all ‘Muslim countries’ ‘fuck ups’? It is regrettable but we have to realise and accept that we can’t impose and force our values and ‘ways of life’ on countries that in reality don’t want them .
You can when the "way of life" includes murdering and butchering each other over how many times a day they pray. Or dropping people off roofs because they like cock? Or stoning women to death? We can't just roll over and ignore that? Because if we do the issue just keeps on going on and on and on? Where does it stop? I wonder if the Afghans running for their lives right now, if they can, feel like it should just carry on?
Yet as an ex military man myself who has seen such things first hand we ignore those very things when it done by countries like Kuiwait or lets say Suadia Arabia right?
But then those countries play ball when it comes to oil.
Look at poor Syria they have gone through hell with many atrocities such as the barrel bombing of residential areas but... we let them effectively crack on alone for many years now as getting involved doesn't benefit us.
You can't become the worlds policeman and take the moral high ground only when it suits us. Our utter hypocrisy is why are so hated in many parts of the world.
The thing to ask when the western powers do anything in other countries is "Cui Bono"
KJ"
I agree we can't be the world's policeman when it suits us and ignore what doesn't, Saudi Arabia should be held to the same standards as others, period. But! They won't be because they happily sell oil to the US. Afghanistan on the other hand would happily sell their opium to the Chinese and Russians. And that's very bad for the US, less heroin means less addicts and dealers and less funding for their entire domestic drug war which turns over billions if not trillions in the gap between the street dealer and addict and the companies that build their prisons.
We have a choice really, either let's everyone else do what they want and then attempt to help with the fallout of a the fucked up regimes orrrr have every Western country commit to policing the hotpots in the world to stop all those atrocities and hold every country to the same standard.
Not the easiest of choices lol |
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By *rFunBoyMan
over a year ago
Longridge |
"I'm of the opinion that the Taliban are unlikely to change their ways, They could - but they certainly aren't being encouraged to, particularly by the USA and the UK.
It seems very clear that our government, and that of the USA, are happy to threaten them with sanctions and bankruptcy, leading to further warfare, death, suffering and probably starvation - unless they do as they're told; by the very countries they just defeated.
Clearly, the USA and UK do not want the Taliban to change - they want them to fail - and they're content to see the women and children of Afghanistan suffer all manner of horrors, in addition to not being treated the way they ought to be by their men.
Rather than try and help them change, they'd rather have another Syria on their hands.
It shows just how paper-thin their commitment to improving Afghanistan really was; now that they're throwing their toys out of the pram because they aren't in charge any more.
I know plenty of people will disagree with me on this - fair enough. But, if the USA and the UK aren't going to try and help the Taliban progress to becoming a government, rather than a gang, - the Chinese, the Russians and the Pakistanis will be quite content to prop up the gang ...
and then all that time, money and human life really will have been wasted for fuck all.
I heard an interesting clip on the radio today about the possibility of the west using air power and possibly more in the future over there. Not against the Taliban but supporting them if ISIS start gaining the upper hand. I never knew it but apparently they are sworn enemies. It would be surreal if it happened"
You missed PLAN B.
Russia pummelling ISIS for them and keeping the Yanks out as the case in Syria where US was warned to keep out.
There's a lot to play for, apparently..
Natural resources! |
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"I'm of the opinion that the Taliban are unlikely to change their ways, They could - but they certainly aren't being encouraged to, particularly by the USA and the UK.
It seems very clear that our government, and that of the USA, are happy to threaten them with sanctions and bankruptcy, leading to further warfare, death, suffering and probably starvation - unless they do as they're told; by the very countries they just defeated.
Clearly, the USA and UK do not want the Taliban to change - they want them to fail - and they're content to see the women and children of Afghanistan suffer all manner of horrors, in addition to not being treated the way they ought to be by their men.
Rather than try and help them change, they'd rather have another Syria on their hands.
It shows just how paper-thin their commitment to improving Afghanistan really was; now that they're throwing their toys out of the pram because they aren't in charge any more.
I know plenty of people will disagree with me on this - fair enough. But, if the USA and the UK aren't going to try and help the Taliban progress to becoming a government, rather than a gang, - the Chinese, the Russians and the Pakistanis will be quite content to prop up the gang ...
and then all that time, money and human life really will have been wasted for fuck all.
I heard an interesting clip on the radio today about the possibility of the west using air power and possibly more in the future over there. Not against the Taliban but supporting them if ISIS start gaining the upper hand. I never knew it but apparently they are sworn enemies. It would be surreal if it happened
You missed PLAN B.
Russia pummelling ISIS for them and keeping the Yanks out as the case in Syria where US was warned to keep out.
There's a lot to play for, apparently..
Natural resources!"
Moneyium and dollarium apparently. The stuff that makes batteries work. |
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