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Should children get vote at 12
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By *ohnj21 OP Man
over a year ago
Leeds |
As vaccine doesn'tneed parental consent as 12 years old enough to decide.
Therefore competent enough to vote
By the way do you class an adult who voted for Boris competent as I voted for him therefore I believe I'm not competent
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By * Plus ECouple
over a year ago
The South |
"As vaccine doesn'tneed parental consent as 12 years old enough to decide.
Therefore competent enough to vote
By the way do you class an adult who voted for Boris competent as I voted for him therefore I believe I'm not competent
"
I think measuring parental consent v ability to vote is a false equivalence.
E |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"As vaccine doesn'tneed parental consent as 12 years old enough to decide.
Therefore competent enough to vote
By the way do you class an adult who voted for Boris competent as I voted for him therefore I believe I'm not competent
"
Wherever the line is drawn, someone will disagree and pick fault. Has the issue with either a child of 13 voting or a child of 12 deciding on having the vaccine affected you personally? Or..... Are you just trying to start a fight in an empty room?
Genuinely interested. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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This has all kicked off from a telegraph article right. One that said consent won't be needed ... But was light in details as to if and when it won't be needed.
It may be that the existing rules continue which allow over 12 to make a decision if an expert believes them to be competent.
So not every 12 yo.
So looks like clickbait.
But I guess "nothing changes with the world" isn't quite as exciting sounding. |
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By *ohnj21 OP Man
over a year ago
Leeds |
"This has all kicked off from a telegraph article right. One that said consent won't be needed ... But was light in details as to if and when it won't be needed.
It may be that the existing rules continue which allow over 12 to make a decision if an expert believes them to be competent.
So not every 12 yo.
So looks like clickbait.
But I guess "nothing changes with the world" isn't quite as exciting sounding. "
Who's the expert who decided.
.. My worry is a teacher which is very wrong |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"As vaccine doesn'tneed parental consent as 12 years old enough to decide.
Therefore competent enough to vote
By the way do you class an adult who voted for Boris competent as I voted for him therefore I believe I'm not competent
"
Are you vaccinated |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"This has all kicked off from a telegraph article right. One that said consent won't be needed ... But was light in details as to if and when it won't be needed.
It may be that the existing rules continue which allow over 12 to make a decision if an expert believes them to be competent.
So not every 12 yo.
So looks like clickbait.
But I guess "nothing changes with the world" isn't quite as exciting sounding.
Who's the expert who decided.
.. My worry is a teacher which is very wrong "
judges and health professionals.
Legal competence to make decisions is conditional on the child gradually acquiring both:
Maturity
That takes account of the child's experiences and the child's ability to manage influences on their decision making such as information, peer pressure, family pressure, fear and misgivings.
Intelligence
That takes account of the child's understanding, ability to weigh risk and benefit, consideration of longer term factors such as effect on family life and on such things as schooling.
The degree of maturity and intelligence needed depends on the gravity of the decision.
Question: would you be against a 15yo being given the morning after pill because their parents haven't given consent? Or anesthic to mend a broken leg and the partents cant be contacted? |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"As vaccine doesn'tneed parental consent as 12 years old enough to decide.
Therefore competent enough to vote
By the way do you class an adult who voted for Boris competent as I voted for him therefore I believe I'm not competent
"
The distinction is if their decision only effects themselves or if it affects others.
As other players have started, this is along running right. It allows a child to overrule parental control in medical situations. For instance due to treatment being withheld due to religious beliefs.
It seems proportionate, but it could overwhelm the system of there are a lot of child/parent disagreements about this. |
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"As vaccine doesn'tneed parental consent as 12 years old enough to decide.
Therefore competent enough to vote
Parental consent hasn’t been withdrawn.
And there is no connection between the vaccination program and the right to vote.
What are you on about?!?
"
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By * Plus ECouple
over a year ago
The South |
"No as they will instinctively just pick the clown.
Bet bojo the clown is behind all this"
You do realise there's not an actual plan to give 12 year olds the vote, yes?
It's just pontificating nonsense to try and make a point.
E
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By *al2001Man
over a year ago
kildare |
"No as they will instinctively just pick the clown.
Bet bojo the clown is behind all this
You do realise there's not an actual plan to give 12 year olds the vote, yes?
It's just pontificating nonsense to try and make a point.
E
"
My post was pontificating nonsense just to call johnson a name.
But i think you should give 12 year olds a vote.
They cant do any worse than you lot voting in johnson
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By *ohnj21 OP Man
over a year ago
Leeds |
"As vaccine doesn'tneed parental consent as 12 years old enough to decide.
Therefore competent enough to vote
By the way do you class an adult who voted for Boris competent as I voted for him therefore I believe I'm not competent
Are you vaccinated "
Yes |
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"No as they will instinctively just pick the clown.
Bet bojo the clown is behind all this
You do realise there's not an actual plan to give 12 year olds the vote, yes?
It's just pontificating nonsense to try and make a point.
E
My post was pontificating nonsense just to call johnson a name.
But i think you should give 12 year olds a vote.
They cant do any worse than you lot voting in johnson
"
Let’s face it … they could do worse, the could choose labour |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"No as they will instinctively just pick the clown.
Bet bojo the clown is behind all this
You do realise there's not an actual plan to give 12 year olds the vote, yes?
It's just pontificating nonsense to try and make a point.
E
My post was pontificating nonsense just to call johnson a name.
But i think you should give 12 year olds a vote.
They cant do any worse than you lot voting in johnson
Let’s face it … they could do worse, the could choose labour "
How would any party be worse than the Tories at this point? They've presided over 1 of the biggest per capita Covid death tolls in the world. They've forced a ruinous Brexit on the country. And they've taken lying and corruption to dizzying new heights. |
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"No as they will instinctively just pick the clown.
Bet bojo the clown is behind all this
You do realise there's not an actual plan to give 12 year olds the vote, yes?
It's just pontificating nonsense to try and make a point.
E
My post was pontificating nonsense just to call johnson a name.
But i think you should give 12 year olds a vote.
They cant do any worse than you lot voting in johnson
Let’s face it … they could do worse, the could choose labour
How would any party be worse than the Tories at this point? They've presided over 1 of the biggest per capita Covid death tolls in the world. They've forced a ruinous Brexit on the country. And they've taken lying and corruption to dizzying new heights."
Oh yeah the virus is all the conservatives fault … luckily I can see past the mist and see it for what it is. I shall be voting then back in … |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"No as they will instinctively just pick the clown.
Bet bojo the clown is behind all this
You do realise there's not an actual plan to give 12 year olds the vote, yes?
It's just pontificating nonsense to try and make a point.
E
My post was pontificating nonsense just to call johnson a name.
But i think you should give 12 year olds a vote.
They cant do any worse than you lot voting in johnson
Let’s face it … they could do worse, the could choose labour
How would any party be worse than the Tories at this point? They've presided over 1 of the biggest per capita Covid death tolls in the world. They've forced a ruinous Brexit on the country. And they've taken lying and corruption to dizzying new heights.
Oh yeah the virus is all the conservatives fault … luckily I can see past the mist and see it for what it is. I shall be voting then back in …"
If you believe the Tories aren't to blame for any of their many fuck ups, you're clearly blinded by that mist.
Have a great day. |
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By *ohnj21 OP Man
over a year ago
Leeds |
"No as they will instinctively just pick the clown.
Bet bojo the clown is behind all this
You do realise there's not an actual plan to give 12 year olds the vote, yes?
It's just pontificating nonsense to try and make a point.
E
My post was pontificating nonsense just to call johnson a name.
But i think you should give 12 year olds a vote.
They cant do any worse than you lot voting in johnson
Let’s face it … they could do worse, the could choose labour
How would any party be worse than the Tories at this point? They've presided over 1 of the biggest per capita Covid death tolls in the world. They've forced a ruinous Brexit on the country. And they've taken lying and corruption to dizzying new heights.
Oh yeah the virus is all the conservatives fault … luckily I can see past the mist and see it for what it is. I shall be voting then back in …"
Open your eyes if you think this is the worst goverment ever.
What does Dominic rabb nerd to do to get sacked.
Also when 2nd hand car salesman Boris getting sacked |
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I'd like it guided by psychological evidence and perhaps it could be graded, according to age, ability to comprehend, responsibility and what's voted on. Certainly 16 should be the maximum, in all probability |
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"No as they will instinctively just pick the clown.
Bet bojo the clown is behind all this
You do realise there's not an actual plan to give 12 year olds the vote, yes?
It's just pontificating nonsense to try and make a point.
E
My post was pontificating nonsense just to call johnson a name.
But i think you should give 12 year olds a vote.
They cant do any worse than you lot voting in johnson
Let’s face it … they could do worse, the could choose labour
How would any party be worse than the Tories at this point? They've presided over 1 of the biggest per capita Covid death tolls in the world. They've forced a ruinous Brexit on the country. And they've taken lying and corruption to dizzying new heights."
 |
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By *ohnj21 OP Man
over a year ago
Leeds |
"I'd like it guided by psychological evidence and perhaps it could be graded, according to age, ability to comprehend, responsibility and what's voted on. Certainly 16 should be the maximum, in all probability "
That's, a parent job. Under 16 child |
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"
How would any party be worse than the Tories at this point? They've presided over 1 of the biggest per capita Covid death tolls in the world. They've forced a ruinous Brexit on the country. And they've taken lying and corruption to dizzying new heights."
Yet, if it were all true, despite all of that Labour are still nowhere let alone an effective, credible opposition. Far too busy navel gazing and infighting about how red and antisemetic they are. Riddled with their own brand of corruption and ineptitude. Pathetic party who can't even take advantage of all Boris's problems. |
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"I'd like it guided by psychological evidence and perhaps it could be graded, according to age, ability to comprehend, responsibility and what's voted on. Certainly 16 should be the maximum, in all probability
That's, a parent job. Under 16 child"
No. Being guided by psychological evidence is about having policy and law etc, being based on the best expertise and knowledge available. Voting rights would be based across the board, not set individually, hence the need for evidence to help to shape policy. |
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"
How would any party be worse than the Tories at this point? They've presided over 1 of the biggest per capita Covid death tolls in the world. They've forced a ruinous Brexit on the country. And they've taken lying and corruption to dizzying new heights.
Yet, if it were all true, despite all of that Labour are still nowhere let alone an effective, credible opposition. Far too busy navel gazing and infighting about how red and antisemetic they are. Riddled with their own brand of corruption and ineptitude. Pathetic party who can't even take advantage of all Boris's problems."
Sounds like you wouldn't consider anyone but the conservatives, except perhaps a right wing alternative.
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"No as they will instinctively just pick the clown.
Bet bojo the clown is behind all this
You do realise there's not an actual plan to give 12 year olds the vote, yes?
It's just pontificating nonsense to try and make a point.
E
My post was pontificating nonsense just to call johnson a name.
But i think you should give 12 year olds a vote.
They cant do any worse than you lot voting in johnson
Let’s face it … they could do worse, the could choose labour
How would any party be worse than the Tories at this point? They've presided over 1 of the biggest per capita Covid death tolls in the world. They've forced a ruinous Brexit on the country. And they've taken lying and corruption to dizzying new heights."
I think you need to get your facts about brexit right. The British people chose in a referendum. This govt democratically executed the will of the people.
You may not agree with it. But it was the will of the majority of the people who bothered to vote.
There are plenty of other criticisms that are legitimate but you can't pin brexit on them. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"No as they will instinctively just pick the clown.
Bet bojo the clown is behind all this
You do realise there's not an actual plan to give 12 year olds the vote, yes?
It's just pontificating nonsense to try and make a point.
E
My post was pontificating nonsense just to call johnson a name.
But i think you should give 12 year olds a vote.
They cant do any worse than you lot voting in johnson
Let’s face it … they could do worse, the could choose labour
How would any party be worse than the Tories at this point? They've presided over 1 of the biggest per capita Covid death tolls in the world. They've forced a ruinous Brexit on the country. And they've taken lying and corruption to dizzying new heights.
I think you need to get your facts about brexit right. The British people chose in a referendum. This govt democratically executed the will of the people.
You may not agree with it. But it was the will of the majority of the people who bothered to vote.
There are plenty of other criticisms that are legitimate but you can't pin brexit on them. "
can we pin the NIP on them ? I accept we voted for brexit. Can they be blamed for the flavour
(Pre emotive answer on my part: probs not as was in their manifesto. So also the will of the people...) |
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"No as they will instinctively just pick the clown.
Bet bojo the clown is behind all this
You do realise there's not an actual plan to give 12 year olds the vote, yes?
It's just pontificating nonsense to try and make a point.
E
My post was pontificating nonsense just to call johnson a name.
But i think you should give 12 year olds a vote.
They cant do any worse than you lot voting in johnson
Let’s face it … they could do worse, the could choose labour
How would any party be worse than the Tories at this point? They've presided over 1 of the biggest per capita Covid death tolls in the world. They've forced a ruinous Brexit on the country. And they've taken lying and corruption to dizzying new heights.
I think you need to get your facts about brexit right. The British people chose in a referendum. This govt democratically executed the will of the people.
You may not agree with it. But it was the will of the majority of the people who bothered to vote.
There are plenty of other criticisms that are legitimate but you can't pin brexit on them. can we pin the NIP on them ? I accept we voted for brexit. Can they be blamed for the flavour
(Pre emotive answer on my part: probs not as was in their manifesto. So also the will of the people...)"
Well, the whole thing was a waste of 2 years as no way were the EU ever going to negotiate anything that could have been seen as losing political ground to the UK.
So we should have done no deal earlier and stopped wasting time with EU negotiators. So again, in thta regard we all knew we of we voted to leave the EU, that they would not give an inch to help us... Why would they? Why should they? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"No as they will instinctively just pick the clown.
Bet bojo the clown is behind all this
You do realise there's not an actual plan to give 12 year olds the vote, yes?
It's just pontificating nonsense to try and make a point.
E
My post was pontificating nonsense just to call johnson a name.
But i think you should give 12 year olds a vote.
They cant do any worse than you lot voting in johnson
Let’s face it … they could do worse, the could choose labour
How would any party be worse than the Tories at this point? They've presided over 1 of the biggest per capita Covid death tolls in the world. They've forced a ruinous Brexit on the country. And they've taken lying and corruption to dizzying new heights.
I think you need to get your facts about brexit right. The British people chose in a referendum. This govt democratically executed the will of the people.
You may not agree with it. But it was the will of the majority of the people who bothered to vote.
There are plenty of other criticisms that are legitimate but you can't pin brexit on them. can we pin the NIP on them ? I accept we voted for brexit. Can they be blamed for the flavour
(Pre emotive answer on my part: probs not as was in their manifesto. So also the will of the people...)
Well, the whole thing was a waste of 2 years as no way were the EU ever going to negotiate anything that could have been seen as losing political ground to the UK.
So we should have done no deal earlier and stopped wasting time with EU negotiators. So again, in thta regard we all knew we of we voted to leave the EU, that they would not give an inch to help us... Why would they? Why should they? "
that's your view tho. But do you agree the people voted for NIP by voting for BoJo? |
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"No as they will instinctively just pick the clown.
Bet bojo the clown is behind all this
You do realise there's not an actual plan to give 12 year olds the vote, yes?
It's just pontificating nonsense to try and make a point.
E
My post was pontificating nonsense just to call johnson a name.
But i think you should give 12 year olds a vote.
They cant do any worse than you lot voting in johnson
Let’s face it … they could do worse, the could choose labour
How would any party be worse than the Tories at this point? They've presided over 1 of the biggest per capita Covid death tolls in the world. They've forced a ruinous Brexit on the country. And they've taken lying and corruption to dizzying new heights.
I think you need to get your facts about brexit right. The British people chose in a referendum. This govt democratically executed the will of the people.
You may not agree with it. But it was the will of the majority of the people who bothered to vote.
There are plenty of other criticisms that are legitimate but you can't pin brexit on them. can we pin the NIP on them ? I accept we voted for brexit. Can they be blamed for the flavour
(Pre emotive answer on my part: probs not as was in their manifesto. So also the will of the people...)
Well, the whole thing was a waste of 2 years as no way were the EU ever going to negotiate anything that could have been seen as losing political ground to the UK.
So we should have done no deal earlier and stopped wasting time with EU negotiators. So again, in thta regard we all knew we of we voted to leave the EU, that they would not give an inch to help us... Why would they? Why should they? that's your view tho. But do you agree the people voted for NIP by voting for BoJo?"
Nip? Hmmm... Probably not...even though it is glaringly obvious I don't think many people thought beyond the top level of in or out. The mechanics I don't think we're thought about by most people. Of course when you stop and think how it might operate... Once again the EU are never going to concede anything to the UK and as the Ireland situation exists and hasn't been resolved in hundreds of years it was inevitable that a fudge would have to happen. But at the time I don't think anyone was thinking past the emotive in / out question. And by now we all have a bit of selective memory about something that some people are quite highly strung about. |
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By *ackal1Couple
over a year ago
Manchester |
"No as they will instinctively just pick the clown.
Bet bojo the clown is behind all this
You do realise there's not an actual plan to give 12 year olds the vote, yes?
It's just pontificating nonsense to try and make a point.
E
My post was pontificating nonsense just to call johnson a name.
But i think you should give 12 year olds a vote.
They cant do any worse than you lot voting in johnson
Let’s face it … they could do worse, the could choose labour
How would any party be worse than the Tories at this point? They've presided over 1 of the biggest per capita Covid death tolls in the world. They've forced a ruinous Brexit on the country. And they've taken lying and corruption to dizzying new heights.
I think you need to get your facts about brexit right. The British people chose in a referendum. This govt democratically executed the will of the people.
You may not agree with it. But it was the will of the majority of the people who bothered to vote.
There are plenty of other criticisms that are legitimate but you can't pin brexit on them. "
Boris chose the leave side and ran his campaign to achieve power on the basis of defeating Cameron over Brexit. I think the commander in chief was top of the pile leading the lies into Brexit so I would pin a very large badge on him!, |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"No as they will instinctively just pick the clown.
Bet bojo the clown is behind all this
You do realise there's not an actual plan to give 12 year olds the vote, yes?
It's just pontificating nonsense to try and make a point.
E
My post was pontificating nonsense just to call johnson a name.
But i think you should give 12 year olds a vote.
They cant do any worse than you lot voting in johnson
Let’s face it … they could do worse, the could choose labour
How would any party be worse than the Tories at this point? They've presided over 1 of the biggest per capita Covid death tolls in the world. They've forced a ruinous Brexit on the country. And they've taken lying and corruption to dizzying new heights.
I think you need to get your facts about brexit right. The British people chose in a referendum. This govt democratically executed the will of the people.
You may not agree with it. But it was the will of the majority of the people who bothered to vote.
There are plenty of other criticisms that are legitimate but you can't pin brexit on them. can we pin the NIP on them ? I accept we voted for brexit. Can they be blamed for the flavour
(Pre emotive answer on my part: probs not as was in their manifesto. So also the will of the people...)
Well, the whole thing was a waste of 2 years as no way were the EU ever going to negotiate anything that could have been seen as losing political ground to the UK.
So we should have done no deal earlier and stopped wasting time with EU negotiators. So again, in thta regard we all knew we of we voted to leave the EU, that they would not give an inch to help us... Why would they? Why should they? that's your view tho. But do you agree the people voted for NIP by voting for BoJo?
Nip? Hmmm... Probably not...even though it is glaringly obvious I don't think many people thought beyond the top level of in or out. The mechanics I don't think we're thought about by most people. Of course when you stop and think how it might operate... Once again the EU are never going to concede anything to the UK and as the Ireland situation exists and hasn't been resolved in hundreds of years it was inevitable that a fudge would have to happen. But at the time I don't think anyone was thinking past the emotive in / out question. And by now we all have a bit of selective memory about something that some people are quite highly strung about. "
to clarify, the people didn't vote for NIP despite this being a manifesto promise and one he put quite high up his campaign.
In which case it was entirely a Tory decision to enter.
Do you think NIP is a success or problematic. Or something else ? |
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By *ddmanMan
over a year ago
Norwich |
Vaccine vs Vote is an example of an apples to oranges comparison:
- being able to have a say in what happens to themselves in terms of health.
Vs
- being able to have a say in what happens to other people too.
A person of 12 may be competent of the first, having only to consider thier own interests but not the second, which requires a more complex,nuanced appreciation of society, politics, ethics and ideology. |
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"Vaccine vs Vote is an example of an apples to oranges comparison:
- being able to have a say in what happens to themselves in terms of health.
Vs
- being able to have a say in what happens to other people too.
A person of 12 may be competent of the first, having only to consider thier own interests but not the second, which requires a more complex,nuanced appreciation of society, politics, ethics and ideology."
Let them vote and when they realise innocent civilians are being killed in endless wars, with their vote attached regardless of parental political persuasion, seeing them being corralled and tear gassed by the met when they march on westminster with banners in hand.
Just a thought.  |
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"Vaccine vs Vote is an example of an apples to oranges comparison:
- being able to have a say in what happens to themselves in terms of health.
Vs
- being able to have a say in what happens to other people too.
A person of 12 may be competent of the first, having only to consider thier own interests but not the second, which requires a more complex,nuanced appreciation of society, politics, ethics and ideology."
Like pitt the younger. Only younger...pitt the teenager for prime minister. |
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