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Is this country turning into selfish right wingers?
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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Tories with their corruption, lies & greed popular, after all they were voted in.
RNLI attacked by yobs, egged on by the arsehole farrage,
Less police, erosion of workers rights, police, legal aid, labour party in decline, nhs privatisation, big pharma ripping off the nhs, fucking stupid needless wars (and before you have a go at me, ive been involved in wars as a medic, trying to stop people dying, doing what i could for the dead and also a nurse in the NHS)
Thank god for Russia stopping the americans from fully invading Syria!
Care home crisis getting worse, billionaire companies not paying taxes,
Endless popularity shown to a shit tory cabinet by the masses
Is it all an indication that we are an intolerant selfish greedy country now?
|
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"Tories with their corruption, lies & greed popular, after all they were voted in.
RNLI attacked by yobs, egged on by the arsehole farrage,
Less police, erosion of workers rights, police, legal aid, labour party in decline, nhs privatisation, big pharma ripping off the nhs, fucking stupid needless wars (and before you have a go at me, ive been involved in wars as a medic, trying to stop people dying, doing what i could for the dead and also a nurse in the NHS)
Thank god for Russia stopping the americans from fully invading Syria!
Care home crisis getting worse, billionaire companies not paying taxes,
Endless popularity shown to a shit tory cabinet by the masses
Is it all an indication that we are an intolerant selfish greedy country now?
"
I think you will find our nigel didnt actually criticize the RNLI.
It was a media stitch up apparently
As for the rest of your post...yeah but corbyn.. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"Tories with their corruption, lies & greed popular, after all they were voted in.
RNLI attacked by yobs, egged on by the arsehole farrage,
Less police, erosion of workers rights, police, legal aid, labour party in decline, nhs privatisation, big pharma ripping off the nhs, fucking stupid needless wars (and before you have a go at me, ive been involved in wars as a medic, trying to stop people dying, doing what i could for the dead and also a nurse in the NHS)
Thank god for Russia stopping the americans from fully invading Syria!
Care home crisis getting worse, billionaire companies not paying taxes,
Endless popularity shown to a shit tory cabinet by the masses
Is it all an indication that we are an intolerant selfish greedy country now?
I think you will find our nigel didnt actually criticize the RNLI.
It was a media stitch up apparently
As for the rest of your post...yeah but corbyn.."
Lol, poor farage! Ill send him a beer token and a bunch of flowers  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Tories with their corruption, lies & greed popular, after all they were voted in.
RNLI attacked by yobs, egged on by the arsehole farrage,
Less police, erosion of workers rights, police, legal aid, labour party in decline, nhs privatisation, big pharma ripping off the nhs, fucking stupid needless wars (and before you have a go at me, ive been involved in wars as a medic, trying to stop people dying, doing what i could for the dead and also a nurse in the NHS)
Thank god for Russia stopping the americans from fully invading Syria!
Care home crisis getting worse, billionaire companies not paying taxes,
Endless popularity shown to a shit tory cabinet by the masses
Is it all an indication that we are an intolerant selfish greedy country now?
I think you will find our nigel didnt actually criticize the RNLI.
It was a media stitch up apparently
As for the rest of your post...yeah but corbyn.."
He didn't say Nigel criticised them  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Tories with their corruption, lies & greed popular, after all they were voted in.
RNLI attacked by yobs, egged on by the arsehole farrage,
Less police, erosion of workers rights, police, legal aid, labour party in decline, nhs privatisation, big pharma ripping off the nhs, fucking stupid needless wars (and before you have a go at me, ive been involved in wars as a medic, trying to stop people dying, doing what i could for the dead and also a nurse in the NHS)
Thank god for Russia stopping the americans from fully invading Syria!
Care home crisis getting worse, billionaire companies not paying taxes,
Endless popularity shown to a shit tory cabinet by the masses
Is it all an indication that we are an intolerant selfish greedy country now?
"
Some of that is true...
Are we turning into an intolerant, selfish, greedy country??
Nope, we are one of the most tolerant, selfless nations in the world. Greedy? Yes, the whole of the west is greedy if you want to take it as whole countries. As individuals? Plenty of people are far from greedy. |
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"Tories with their corruption, lies & greed popular, after all they were voted in.
RNLI attacked by yobs, egged on by the arsehole farrage,
Less police, erosion of workers rights, police, legal aid, labour party in decline, nhs privatisation, big pharma ripping off the nhs, fucking stupid needless wars (and before you have a go at me, ive been involved in wars as a medic, trying to stop people dying, doing what i could for the dead and also a nurse in the NHS)
Thank god for Russia stopping the americans from fully invading Syria!
Care home crisis getting worse, billionaire companies not paying taxes,
Endless popularity shown to a shit tory cabinet by the masses
Is it all an indication that we are an intolerant selfish greedy country now?
I think you will find our nigel didnt actually criticize the RNLI.
It was a media stitch up apparently
As for the rest of your post...yeah but corbyn..
Lol, poor farage! Ill send him a beer token and a bunch of flowers "
Just to clarify.. when you say they were egged on by Nigel..that doesn't mean he actually criticised them does it?
Probally just a delightful coincidence. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Edit: a country of selfish right wingers"
As for being a country of right wingers.
We may have a right wing government but Labour's membership along is 2.5x larger than Conservatives.
Soooo...... |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Edit: a country of selfish right wingers
As for being a country of right wingers.
We may have a right wing government but Labour's membership along is 2.5x larger than Conservatives.
Soooo......"
So who are they voting for in an election? Fptp isn't exactly ideal but the tories are voted for to get into government (obviously) |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I'm more amused at the pretense that right wing = bad and left wing = good.
That's like a preschool understanding of politics tbh. Lacks any nuance.
Oh and I'm centre left...
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Edit: a country of selfish right wingers
As for being a country of right wingers.
We may have a right wing government but Labour's membership along is 2.5x larger than Conservatives.
Soooo......
So who are they voting for in an election? Fptp isn't exactly ideal but the tories are voted for to get into government (obviously) "
They have been better at campaigning.
Obviously I realise membership isn't the full picture but neither is a GE.
You'll have plenty of people here tell you that left-centre parties got more votes blah blah blah |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"I'm more amused at the pretense that right wing = bad and left wing = good.
That's like a preschool understanding of politics tbh. Lacks any nuance.
Oh and I'm centre left...
"
Supposition.. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Oh and if you think Russia actually gives a fuck about Syria other than taking control of an oil pipeline you are actually deluded
Plus , Russian air power is not suited or used in the same way as the US. Russia uses mostly unguided munitions from planes like the SU-25 Frogfoot, Su-57's and 35's when bombing targets, meaning alot lower accuracy especially in and around civilian areas. Meaning more possible civilian deaths.
They also are quite fond of using cluster munitions. Plus the fact in reality the Russian airforce was absolute dogshit before Syria. Syria has been their training ground.
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Can you explain what stupid and needless wars the conservatives have got us into?
because you may want to take a look at labour for that one "
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/why-the-tories-backed-the-war
The current government are still doing well even after all they've done so far?
how else are they doing well if they're not popular with the electorate?
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Oh and if you think Russia actually gives a fuck about Syria other than taking control of an oil pipeline you are actually deluded
Plus , Russian air power is not suited or used in the same way as the US. Russia uses mostly unguided munitions from planes like the SU-25 Frogfoot, Su-57's and 35's when bombing targets, meaning alot lower accuracy especially in and around civilian areas. Meaning more possible civilian deaths.
They also are quite fond of using cluster munitions. Plus the fact in reality the Russian airforce was absolute dogshit before Syria. Syria has been their training ground.
"
How does that explain the civilian casualties in Afghanistan and Iraq with so called precision munitions?
It would have been a lot worse if a us led invasion happened in Syria.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Oh and if you think Russia actually gives a fuck about Syria other than taking control of an oil pipeline you are actually deluded
Plus , Russian air power is not suited or used in the same way as the US. Russia uses mostly unguided munitions from planes like the SU-25 Frogfoot, Su-57's and 35's when bombing targets, meaning alot lower accuracy especially in and around civilian areas. Meaning more possible civilian deaths.
They also are quite fond of using cluster munitions. Plus the fact in reality the Russian airforce was absolute dogshit before Syria. Syria has been their training ground.
How does that explain the civilian casualties in Afghanistan and Iraq with so called precision munitions?
It would have been a lot worse if a us led invasion happened in Syria.
"
Well in Afghanistan a nearly 20 year war the US has killed 2,122 civilians with air strikes.
Russia have killed nearly 7000 in under 10...
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Oh and if you think Russia actually gives a fuck about Syria other than taking control of an oil pipeline you are actually deluded
Plus , Russian air power is not suited or used in the same way as the US. Russia uses mostly unguided munitions from planes like the SU-25 Frogfoot, Su-57's and 35's when bombing targets, meaning alot lower accuracy especially in and around civilian areas. Meaning more possible civilian deaths.
They also are quite fond of using cluster munitions. Plus the fact in reality the Russian airforce was absolute dogshit before Syria. Syria has been their training ground.
How does that explain the civilian casualties in Afghanistan and Iraq with so called precision munitions?
It would have been a lot worse if a us led invasion happened in Syria.
"
You seriously think Russia would of done a better job at invading Syria.
I would recommend looking up the shit that went on in the Chechen and Georgian wars..
We are talking about a country that quite happily uses untested chemical agents on it's own population here.
And ran by a literal murderer. You think BoJo is dangerous? This guy literally ran Spetsnaz deathsquads after the fall of the USSR. Loaning out SF forces to criminals and mobsters
Oh btw the Russians backed Assad who's forces are responsible for the vast majority of civilian casualties in Syria. like 80% of them |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"We have also been a right wing country,despite a few exceptions.
Any remotely social democratic policy is seen as almost marxist.
A process that seems to have accelerated over the last few years. "
Yep, unfortunately your right |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Oh and if you think Russia actually gives a fuck about Syria other than taking control of an oil pipeline you are actually deluded
Plus , Russian air power is not suited or used in the same way as the US. Russia uses mostly unguided munitions from planes like the SU-25 Frogfoot, Su-57's and 35's when bombing targets, meaning alot lower accuracy especially in and around civilian areas. Meaning more possible civilian deaths.
They also are quite fond of using cluster munitions. Plus the fact in reality the Russian airforce was absolute dogshit before Syria. Syria has been their training ground.
How does that explain the civilian casualties in Afghanistan and Iraq with so called precision munitions?
It would have been a lot worse if a us led invasion happened in Syria.
Well in Afghanistan a nearly 20 year war the US has killed 2,122 civilians with air strikes.
Russia have killed nearly 7000 in under 10...
"
335,000 would be a better estimate for American killings |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Oh and if you think Russia actually gives a fuck about Syria other than taking control of an oil pipeline you are actually deluded
Plus , Russian air power is not suited or used in the same way as the US. Russia uses mostly unguided munitions from planes like the SU-25 Frogfoot, Su-57's and 35's when bombing targets, meaning alot lower accuracy especially in and around civilian areas. Meaning more possible civilian deaths.
They also are quite fond of using cluster munitions. Plus the fact in reality the Russian airforce was absolute dogshit before Syria. Syria has been their training ground.
How does that explain the civilian casualties in Afghanistan and Iraq with so called precision munitions?
It would have been a lot worse if a us led invasion happened in Syria.
Well in Afghanistan a nearly 20 year war the US has killed 2,122 civilians with air strikes.
Russia have killed nearly 7000 in under 10...
335,000 would be a better estimate for American killings"
Well that's the estimate for civilian deaths in there entirety of the Iraq and Afghanistan war.
Not how many have been killed because of US airstrikes and combat ops
That number includes killings by the Taliban including stuff like IED's. Or killings in Iraq that are due to violence between Sunnis and Shiites
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Oh and if you think Russia actually gives a fuck about Syria other than taking control of an oil pipeline you are actually deluded
Plus , Russian air power is not suited or used in the same way as the US. Russia uses mostly unguided munitions from planes like the SU-25 Frogfoot, Su-57's and 35's when bombing targets, meaning alot lower accuracy especially in and around civilian areas. Meaning more possible civilian deaths.
They also are quite fond of using cluster munitions. Plus the fact in reality the Russian airforce was absolute dogshit before Syria. Syria has been their training ground.
How does that explain the civilian casualties in Afghanistan and Iraq with so called precision munitions?
It would have been a lot worse if a us led invasion happened in Syria.
Well in Afghanistan a nearly 20 year war the US has killed 2,122 civilians with air strikes.
Russia have killed nearly 7000 in under 10...
335,000 would be a better estimate for American killings
Well that's the estimate for civilian deaths in there entirety of the Iraq and Afghanistan war.
Not how many have been killed because of US airstrikes and combat ops
That number includes killings by the Taliban including stuff like IED's. Or killings in Iraq that are due to violence between Sunnis and Shiites
"
As a result of the us led invasion. |
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"Tories with their corruption, lies & greed popular, after all they were voted in.
RNLI attacked by yobs, egged on by the arsehole farrage,
Less police, erosion of workers rights, police, legal aid, labour party in decline, nhs privatisation, big pharma ripping off the nhs, fucking stupid needless wars (and before you have a go at me, ive been involved in wars as a medic, trying to stop people dying, doing what i could for the dead and also a nurse in the NHS)
Thank god for Russia stopping the americans from fully invading Syria!
Care home crisis getting worse, billionaire companies not paying taxes,
Endless popularity shown to a shit tory cabinet by the masses
Is it all an indication that we are an intolerant selfish greedy country now?
"
wyer thank god for them Russians it’s not like there’s any here avoiding tax lol |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"Tories with their corruption, lies & greed popular, after all they were voted in.
RNLI attacked by yobs, egged on by the arsehole farrage,
Less police, erosion of workers rights, police, legal aid, labour party in decline, nhs privatisation, big pharma ripping off the nhs, fucking stupid needless wars (and before you have a go at me, ive been involved in wars as a medic, trying to stop people dying, doing what i could for the dead and also a nurse in the NHS)
Thank god for Russia stopping the americans from fully invading Syria!
Care home crisis getting worse, billionaire companies not paying taxes,
Endless popularity shown to a shit tory cabinet by the masses
Is it all an indication that we are an intolerant selfish greedy country now?
wyer thank god for them Russians it’s not like there’s any here avoiding tax lol"
Not our tax they're avoiding |
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"Only 13 of the last 42 years has their been a labour govt and it could be argued they moved way right of usual Labour principles to win that.
Turning right wing? I think it turned a long time ago."
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Only 13 of the last 42 years has their been a labour govt and it could be argued they moved way right of usual Labour principles to win that.
Turning right wing? I think it turned a long time ago.
"
Yep, the Cameron years with Osborne, IDS and the like were sowing the seeds of doubt in my mind  |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Everyone is selfish. Everyone has been selfish for a long time. Nothing new about it."
Is it something that the voters identify with that makes the right wing more appealing? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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The latest YouGov poll
41% intend to vote right wing whilst 51% intend to vote left wing. That doesn't include the SNP.
I'd hardly say that makes the UK a Right Wing nation. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Everyone is selfish. Everyone has been selfish for a long time. Nothing new about it.
Is it something that the voters identify with that makes the right wing more appealing? "
People vote for right wing simply because the left wing parties have locked themselves into a corner. Everyone who votes for Tories swears at them. They all accept that Boris is a fraud but still vote for them because Labour has become a disgrace. This is a trend not just in the UK. Popularity of right wing parties has risen all around Europe.
Left wing parties are trying to pursue two philosophies that contradict each other. They did that to increase their vote banks. It backfired big time for them as their existing vote bank split off. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Everyone is selfish. Everyone has been selfish for a long time. Nothing new about it.
Is it something that the voters identify with that makes the right wing more appealing?
People vote for right wing simply because the left wing parties have locked themselves into a corner. Everyone who votes for Tories swears at them. They all accept that Boris is a fraud but still vote for them because Labour has become a disgrace. This is a trend not just in the UK. Popularity of right wing parties has risen all around Europe.
Left wing parties are trying to pursue two philosophies that contradict each other. They did that to increase their vote banks. It backfired big time for them as their existing vote bank split off."
Green, libdems too? |
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"Everyone is selfish. Everyone has been selfish for a long time. Nothing new about it."
Everyone is selfish to a degree
However when you have a school of thought which actively encourages that greed,you have problems.
Thatcherism was all about the individual..that's what her entire ethos was based on..buy her own house,buy shares, fuck everyone else.
And then years later when the pandemic comes along there is surprise that people act like cunts. |
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"Everyone is selfish. Everyone has been selfish for a long time. Nothing new about it.
Is it something that the voters identify with that makes the right wing more appealing?
People vote for right wing simply because the left wing parties have locked themselves into a corner. Everyone who votes for Tories swears at them. They all accept that Boris is a fraud but still vote for them because Labour has become a disgrace. This is a trend not just in the UK. Popularity of right wing parties has risen all around Europe.
Left wing parties are trying to pursue two philosophies that contradict each other. They did that to increase their vote banks. It backfired big time for them as their existing vote bank split off."
Possibly the most flawed argument I've ever heard.
People vote for a fraud because there is no alternative.
Utter nonsense. |
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Both extreme right and left wing are bad, labour didn't get voted in because they went to far left, the tories didn't go as far right.
The majority sit around the centre slightly left or right, despite what people think we are really a 2 party country so the one that plays the middle ground the best gets in.
Yes people are selfish but that is the same on the left as the right, having worked in China I saw selfishness just the same as here.
Saying all of that we are still one of the most open and tolerant countries in the world |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Everyone is selfish. Everyone has been selfish for a long time. Nothing new about it.
Everyone is selfish to a degree
However when you have a school of thought which actively encourages that greed,you have problems.
Thatcherism was all about the individual..that's what her entire ethos was based on..buy her own house,buy shares, fuck everyone else.
And then years later when the pandemic comes along there is surprise that people act like cunts."
Aren't you the person who wanted Scandinavian level of welfare system but never agreed to pay more taxes? The only difference between both the groups is that one group openly admits they are selfish but the other group preaches others to not be selfish but are selfish themselves. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Everyone is selfish. Everyone has been selfish for a long time. Nothing new about it.
Is it something that the voters identify with that makes the right wing more appealing?
People vote for right wing simply because the left wing parties have locked themselves into a corner. Everyone who votes for Tories swears at them. They all accept that Boris is a fraud but still vote for them because Labour has become a disgrace. This is a trend not just in the UK. Popularity of right wing parties has risen all around Europe.
Left wing parties are trying to pursue two philosophies that contradict each other. They did that to increase their vote banks. It backfired big time for them as their existing vote bank split off.
Possibly the most flawed argument I've ever heard.
People vote for a fraud because there is no alternative.
Utter nonsense. "
So what's the alternative? |
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"Both extreme right and left wing are bad, labour didn't get voted in because they went to far left, the tories didn't go as far right.
The majority sit around the centre slightly left or right, despite what people think we are really a 2 party country so the one that plays the middle ground the best gets in.
Yes people are selfish but that is the same on the left as the right, having worked in China I saw selfishness just the same as here.
Saying all of that we are still one of the most open and tolerant countries in the world "
It certainly is.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Everyone is selfish. Everyone has been selfish for a long time. Nothing new about it.
Is it something that the voters identify with that makes the right wing more appealing?
People vote for right wing simply because the left wing parties have locked themselves into a corner. Everyone who votes for Tories swears at them. They all accept that Boris is a fraud but still vote for them because Labour has become a disgrace. This is a trend not just in the UK. Popularity of right wing parties has risen all around Europe.
Left wing parties are trying to pursue two philosophies that contradict each other. They did that to increase their vote banks. It backfired big time for them as their existing vote bank split off.
Green, libdems too? "
Greens and libdems may indeed overtake Labour in the near future. It will take some time though. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Oh and if you think Russia actually gives a fuck about Syria other than taking control of an oil pipeline you are actually deluded
Plus , Russian air power is not suited or used in the same way as the US. Russia uses mostly unguided munitions from planes like the SU-25 Frogfoot, Su-57's and 35's when bombing targets, meaning alot lower accuracy especially in and around civilian areas. Meaning more possible civilian deaths.
They also are quite fond of using cluster munitions. Plus the fact in reality the Russian airforce was absolute dogshit before Syria. Syria has been their training ground.
How does that explain the civilian casualties in Afghanistan and Iraq with so called precision munitions?
It would have been a lot worse if a us led invasion happened in Syria.
"
Come on Wakeup... Everyone knows in those countries the bad guys were putting civilians around mitary targets daring the allied planes to bomb them. In war there will allways be unnecessary casualties. |
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"Everyone is selfish. Everyone has been selfish for a long time. Nothing new about it.
Is it something that the voters identify with that makes the right wing more appealing?
People vote for right wing simply because the left wing parties have locked themselves into a corner. Everyone who votes for Tories swears at them. They all accept that Boris is a fraud but still vote for them because Labour has become a disgrace. This is a trend not just in the UK. Popularity of right wing parties has risen all around Europe.
Left wing parties are trying to pursue two philosophies that contradict each other. They did that to increase their vote banks. It backfired big time for them as their existing vote bank split off.
Green, libdems too?
Greens and libdems may indeed overtake Labour in the near future. It will take some time though."
Embrace the Green. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Everyone is selfish. Everyone has been selfish for a long time. Nothing new about it.
Is it something that the voters identify with that makes the right wing more appealing?
People vote for right wing simply because the left wing parties have locked themselves into a corner. Everyone who votes for Tories swears at them. They all accept that Boris is a fraud but still vote for them because Labour has become a disgrace. This is a trend not just in the UK. Popularity of right wing parties has risen all around Europe.
Left wing parties are trying to pursue two philosophies that contradict each other. They did that to increase their vote banks. It backfired big time for them as their existing vote bank split off.
Green, libdems too?
Greens and libdems may indeed overtake Labour in the near future. It will take some time though.
Embrace the Green. "
Just hope that they don't get too deep into identity politics the way Labour did. |
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"Both extreme right and left wing are bad, labour didn't get voted in because they went to far left, the tories didn't go as far right.
The majority sit around the centre slightly left or right, despite what people think we are really a 2 party country so the one that plays the middle ground the best gets in.
Yes people are selfish but that is the same on the left as the right, having worked in China I saw selfishness just the same as here.
Saying all of that we are still one of the most open and tolerant countries in the world "
Can you give me just 1 example of labour going "too far left?
If you dont think this current lot are far right...well politeness stops me going any further. |
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"Everyone is selfish. Everyone has been selfish for a long time. Nothing new about it.
Everyone is selfish to a degree
However when you have a school of thought which actively encourages that greed,you have problems.
Thatcherism was all about the individual..that's what her entire ethos was based on..buy her own house,buy shares, fuck everyone else.
And then years later when the pandemic comes along there is surprise that people act like cunts.
Aren't you the person who wanted Scandinavian level of welfare system but never agreed to pay more taxes? The only difference between both the groups is that one group openly admits they are selfish but the other group preaches others to not be selfish but are selfish themselves."
No you have literally made that up.
I said the scandavians have a better standard of living and are generally more progressive as they pay more tax and their wages are higher. |
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"Everyone is selfish. Everyone has been selfish for a long time. Nothing new about it.
Is it something that the voters identify with that makes the right wing more appealing?
People vote for right wing simply because the left wing parties have locked themselves into a corner. Everyone who votes for Tories swears at them. They all accept that Boris is a fraud but still vote for them because Labour has become a disgrace. This is a trend not just in the UK. Popularity of right wing parties has risen all around Europe.
Left wing parties are trying to pursue two philosophies that contradict each other. They did that to increase their vote banks. It backfired big time for them as their existing vote bank split off.
Possibly the most flawed argument I've ever heard.
People vote for a fraud because there is no alternative.
Utter nonsense.
So what's the alternative?"
There are lots of alternatives.
They should look at the ballot sheet. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Everyone is selfish. Everyone has been selfish for a long time. Nothing new about it.
Everyone is selfish to a degree
However when you have a school of thought which actively encourages that greed,you have problems.
Thatcherism was all about the individual..that's what her entire ethos was based on..buy her own house,buy shares, fuck everyone else.
And then years later when the pandemic comes along there is surprise that people act like cunts.
Aren't you the person who wanted Scandinavian level of welfare system but never agreed to pay more taxes? The only difference between both the groups is that one group openly admits they are selfish but the other group preaches others to not be selfish but are selfish themselves.
No you have literally made that up.
I said the scandavians have a better standard of living and are generally more progressive as they pay more tax and their wages are higher."
No. You brought up the topic of "why can't we do it if Scandinavians can?" They can because everyone including the lowest earners pay high taxes. But you or many other people who bring up this Scandinavian welfare model topic try to deflect the responsibility on others the moment I ask them to pay more taxes. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Everyone is selfish. Everyone has been selfish for a long time. Nothing new about it.
Is it something that the voters identify with that makes the right wing more appealing?
People vote for right wing simply because the left wing parties have locked themselves into a corner. Everyone who votes for Tories swears at them. They all accept that Boris is a fraud but still vote for them because Labour has become a disgrace. This is a trend not just in the UK. Popularity of right wing parties has risen all around Europe.
Left wing parties are trying to pursue two philosophies that contradict each other. They did that to increase their vote banks. It backfired big time for them as their existing vote bank split off.
Possibly the most flawed argument I've ever heard.
People vote for a fraud because there is no alternative.
Utter nonsense.
So what's the alternative?
There are lots of alternatives.
They should look at the ballot sheet."
What alternative do you specifically suggest? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Both extreme right and left wing are bad, labour didn't get voted in because they went to far left, the tories didn't go as far right.
The majority sit around the centre slightly left or right, despite what people think we are really a 2 party country so the one that plays the middle ground the best gets in.
Yes people are selfish but that is the same on the left as the right, having worked in China I saw selfishness just the same as here.
Saying all of that we are still one of the most open and tolerant countries in the world
Can you give me just 1 example of labour going "too far left?
If you dont think this current lot are far right...well politeness stops me going any further. "
An MP liking and retweeting a tweet that said "r*pe victims must shut up for the sake of diversity". I personally would never vote for that party until she is kicked out. |
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"Both extreme right and left wing are bad, labour didn't get voted in because they went to far left, the tories didn't go as far right.
The majority sit around the centre slightly left or right, despite what people think we are really a 2 party country so the one that plays the middle ground the best gets in.
Yes people are selfish but that is the same on the left as the right, having worked in China I saw selfishness just the same as here.
Saying all of that we are still one of the most open and tolerant countries in the world
Can you give me just 1 example of labour going "too far left?
If you dont think this current lot are far right...well politeness stops me going any further.
An MP liking and retweeting a tweet that said "r*pe victims must shut up for the sake of diversity". I personally would never vote for that party until she is kicked out. "
Sorry was that an official policy or are we now just picking out individual things an mp said?
I personally wouldnt vote for someone who made comments about muslim women looking like letter boxes but millions did. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Both extreme right and left wing are bad, labour didn't get voted in because they went to far left, the tories didn't go as far right.
The majority sit around the centre slightly left or right, despite what people think we are really a 2 party country so the one that plays the middle ground the best gets in.
Yes people are selfish but that is the same on the left as the right, having worked in China I saw selfishness just the same as here.
Saying all of that we are still one of the most open and tolerant countries in the world
Can you give me just 1 example of labour going "too far left?
If you dont think this current lot are far right...well politeness stops me going any further.
An MP liking and retweeting a tweet that said "r*pe victims must shut up for the sake of diversity". I personally would never vote for that party until she is kicked out.
Sorry was that an official policy or are we now just picking out individual things an mp said?
I personally wouldnt vote for someone who made comments about muslim women looking like letter boxes but millions did."
A party that suspends people like Trevor Philips for just talking about grooming gangs to not take any action on a person who posted such a vile tweet - it is their official stance.
If you think that comment about muslim women's costume is same as that comment on r*pe victims, you have got some serious problems. Don't let your political inclinations blind you. |
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"Both extreme right and left wing are bad, labour didn't get voted in because they went to far left, the tories didn't go as far right.
The majority sit around the centre slightly left or right, despite what people think we are really a 2 party country so the one that plays the middle ground the best gets in.
Yes people are selfish but that is the same on the left as the right, having worked in China I saw selfishness just the same as here.
Saying all of that we are still one of the most open and tolerant countries in the world
Can you give me just 1 example of labour going "too far left?
If you dont think this current lot are far right...well politeness stops me going any further.
An MP liking and retweeting a tweet that said "r*pe victims must shut up for the sake of diversity". I personally would never vote for that party until she is kicked out.
Sorry was that an official policy or are we now just picking out individual things an mp said?
I personally wouldnt vote for someone who made comments about muslim women looking like letter boxes but millions did.
A party that suspends people like Trevor Philips for just talking about grooming gangs to not take any action on a person who posted such a vile tweet - it is their official stance.
If you think that comment about muslim women's costume is same as that comment on r*pe victims, you have got some serious problems. Don't let your political inclinations blind you."
Can you explain to me how saying something like that is 'too left wing'
And how does it tie into the labour manifesto? |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"Oh and if you think Russia actually gives a fuck about Syria other than taking control of an oil pipeline you are actually deluded
Plus , Russian air power is not suited or used in the same way as the US. Russia uses mostly unguided munitions from planes like the SU-25 Frogfoot, Su-57's and 35's when bombing targets, meaning alot lower accuracy especially in and around civilian areas. Meaning more possible civilian deaths.
They also are quite fond of using cluster munitions. Plus the fact in reality the Russian airforce was absolute dogshit before Syria. Syria has been their training ground.
How does that explain the civilian casualties in Afghanistan and Iraq with so called precision munitions?
It would have been a lot worse if a us led invasion happened in Syria.
Come on Wakeup... Everyone knows in those countries the bad guys were putting civilians around mitary targets daring the allied planes to bomb them. In war there will allways be unnecessary casualties. "
That's nice, why don't you use the collateral damage euphemism?! Not needlessly Interfering in other countries would be a good start to avoid killing civies. Mis identifying targets, cover ups, persecution of journalists like Julian Assange, and you like to think we're the good guys.
Blow up a few hete, shoot a few there, blow up a wedding party, oh yes we're the good guys all right |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"Both extreme right and left wing are bad, labour didn't get voted in because they went to far left, the tories didn't go as far right.
The majority sit around the centre slightly left or right, despite what people think we are really a 2 party country so the one that plays the middle ground the best gets in.
Yes people are selfish but that is the same on the left as the right, having worked in China I saw selfishness just the same as here.
Saying all of that we are still one of the most open and tolerant countries in the world
Can you give me just 1 example of labour going "too far left?
If you dont think this current lot are far right...well politeness stops me going any further.
An MP liking and retweeting a tweet that said "r*pe victims must shut up for the sake of diversity". I personally would never vote for that party until she is kicked out.
Sorry was that an official policy or are we now just picking out individual things an mp said?
I personally wouldnt vote for someone who made comments about muslim women looking like letter boxes but millions did.
A party that suspends people like Trevor Philips for just talking about grooming gangs to not take any action on a person who posted such a vile tweet - it is their official stance.
If you think that comment about muslim women's costume is same as that comment on r*pe victims, you have got some serious problems. Don't let your political inclinations blind you.
Can you explain to me how saying something like that is 'too left wing'
And how does it tie into the labour manifesto?"
Lionel and myself are waiting. |
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"Both extreme right and left wing are bad, labour didn't get voted in because they went to far left, the tories didn't go as far right.
The majority sit around the centre slightly left or right, despite what people think we are really a 2 party country so the one that plays the middle ground the best gets in.
Yes people are selfish but that is the same on the left as the right, having worked in China I saw selfishness just the same as here.
Saying all of that we are still one of the most open and tolerant countries in the world
Can you give me just 1 example of labour going "too far left?
If you dont think this current lot are far right...well politeness stops me going any further.
An MP liking and retweeting a tweet that said "r*pe victims must shut up for the sake of diversity". I personally would never vote for that party until she is kicked out.
Sorry was that an official policy or are we now just picking out individual things an mp said?
I personally wouldnt vote for someone who made comments about muslim women looking like letter boxes but millions did.
A party that suspends people like Trevor Philips for just talking about grooming gangs to not take any action on a person who posted such a vile tweet - it is their official stance.
If you think that comment about muslim women's costume is same as that comment on r*pe victims, you have got some serious problems. Don't let your political inclinations blind you.
Can you explain to me how saying something like that is 'too left wing'
And how does it tie into the labour manifesto?
Lionel and myself are waiting. "
Tbf I think the argument that the entire labour party are too left wing because 1 person retweeted something incredibly stupid a few years ago,to he completely convincing. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Anyway, back to the topic, this is what I as an outsider has observed in this country and even other European countries. It's going to be a long post.
It's easy to understand the situation if you stop seeing left vs right as good vs bad and just see them as groups of politicians in power struggle. Ideologies are just tools. All they cared are about vote banks.
1) Left wing parties' major vote bank was traditionally the working class.
2) In the past few decades, the size of working class has been reducing as many have moved to middle class. This resulted in a reduction in their vote banks too. Unions based politics alone won't help them anymore.
3) With increase in immigration, they tried to be too clever by changing their image to be the party of social minorities too to develop their vote bank. They indulged in identity politics. This backfired in a way they didn't expect.
4) The new vote bank of immigrants are divided among themselves. India vs Pakistan, Israel vs Palestine, Muslims vs LGBT. Any stance they take on these matters is going to lose them votes from one of the groups. Anti-Semitism allegations, Indians going against Labour because of their stance on Kashmir are evidences for it.
5) They also managed to piss of their existing vote bank. Repeatedly using "white privilege" as a stick to beat down every white person doesn't help.
6) Social welfare works well only if the ratio of people paying in and the amount of people taking out is healthy. If you are going to take in numerous refugees, you need to explain how you are going to balance the ratio. This again indirectly affects the working class because they are the ones who depend more on social welfare.
So they have a vote bank with many conflicting interests(Brexit is another example). It is hard to satisfy everyone. What does the right wing party do? Just wait for left wing parties to make mistakes and point out their hypocrisies to the voters. That was good enough to pull away a big chunk to their side.
The most successful left wing party in Europe that I know of is the Social Democratic party of Denmark. They are the ones who were clever enough to understand the conflict of interest and even took a hard stance against refugees.
People have always been selfish. Political parties who adapt well to situations have always won. Present days are no different. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Both extreme right and left wing are bad, labour didn't get voted in because they went to far left, the tories didn't go as far right.
The majority sit around the centre slightly left or right, despite what people think we are really a 2 party country so the one that plays the middle ground the best gets in.
Yes people are selfish but that is the same on the left as the right, having worked in China I saw selfishness just the same as here.
Saying all of that we are still one of the most open and tolerant countries in the world
Can you give me just 1 example of labour going "too far left?
If you dont think this current lot are far right...well politeness stops me going any further.
An MP liking and retweeting a tweet that said "r*pe victims must shut up for the sake of diversity". I personally would never vote for that party until she is kicked out.
Sorry was that an official policy or are we now just picking out individual things an mp said?
I personally wouldnt vote for someone who made comments about muslim women looking like letter boxes but millions did.
A party that suspends people like Trevor Philips for just talking about grooming gangs to not take any action on a person who posted such a vile tweet - it is their official stance.
If you think that comment about muslim women's costume is same as that comment on r*pe victims, you have got some serious problems. Don't let your political inclinations blind you.
Can you explain to me how saying something like that is 'too left wing'
And how does it tie into the labour manifesto?"
Depends on how you define left. If it's the traditional economic definition, then it's not. If it's about modern definition based on social issues, yes. Asking r*pe victims to shut up is downright authoritarianism.
Manifesto is not the only way you judge a party. How the party behaves is a much better way to understand them. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Both extreme right and left wing are bad, labour didn't get voted in because they went to far left, the tories didn't go as far right.
The majority sit around the centre slightly left or right, despite what people think we are really a 2 party country so the one that plays the middle ground the best gets in.
Yes people are selfish but that is the same on the left as the right, having worked in China I saw selfishness just the same as here.
Saying all of that we are still one of the most open and tolerant countries in the world
Can you give me just 1 example of labour going "too far left?
If you dont think this current lot are far right...well politeness stops me going any further.
An MP liking and retweeting a tweet that said "r*pe victims must shut up for the sake of diversity". I personally would never vote for that party until she is kicked out.
Sorry was that an official policy or are we now just picking out individual things an mp said?
I personally wouldnt vote for someone who made comments about muslim women looking like letter boxes but millions did.
A party that suspends people like Trevor Philips for just talking about grooming gangs to not take any action on a person who posted such a vile tweet - it is their official stance.
If you think that comment about muslim women's costume is same as that comment on r*pe victims, you have got some serious problems. Don't let your political inclinations blind you.
Can you explain to me how saying something like that is 'too left wing'
And how does it tie into the labour manifesto?
Lionel and myself are waiting.
Tbf I think the argument that the entire labour party are too left wing because 1 person retweeted something incredibly stupid a few years ago,to he completely convincing."
It's not about that tweet. It's about how the party reacted to it. They have suspended others in the party for saying stuff that sounded remotely racist. But such a horrible statement going unpunished tells a lot about their party. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Anyway, back to the topic, this is what I as an outsider has observed in this country and even other European countries. It's going to be a long post.
It's easy to understand the situation if you stop seeing left vs right as good vs bad and just see them as groups of politicians in power struggle. Ideologies are just tools. All they cared are about vote banks.
1) Left wing parties' major vote bank was traditionally the working class.
2) In the past few decades, the size of working class has been reducing as many have moved to middle class. This resulted in a reduction in their vote banks too. Unions based politics alone won't help them anymore.
3) With increase in immigration, they tried to be too clever by changing their image to be the party of social minorities too to develop their vote bank. They indulged in identity politics. This backfired in a way they didn't expect.
4) The new vote bank of immigrants are divided among themselves. India vs Pakistan, Israel vs Palestine, Muslims vs LGBT. Any stance they take on these matters is going to lose them votes from one of the groups. Anti-Semitism allegations, Indians going against Labour because of their stance on Kashmir are evidences for it.
5) They also managed to piss of their existing vote bank. Repeatedly using "white privilege" as a stick to beat down every white person doesn't help.
6) Social welfare works well only if the ratio of people paying in and the amount of people taking out is healthy. If you are going to take in numerous refugees, you need to explain how you are going to balance the ratio. This again indirectly affects the working class because they are the ones who depend more on social welfare.
So they have a vote bank with many conflicting interests(Brexit is another example). It is hard to satisfy everyone. What does the right wing party do? Just wait for left wing parties to make mistakes and point out their hypocrisies to the voters. That was good enough to pull away a big chunk to their side.
The most successful left wing party in Europe that I know of is the Social Democratic party of Denmark. They are the ones who were clever enough to understand the conflict of interest and even took a hard stance against refugees.
People have always been selfish. Political parties who adapt well to situations have always won. Present days are no different."
If I'm not mistaken, you are an immigrant in the UK? Apologies if I'm wrong.
My wonder is how you have so much more of an understanding than people who are UK nationals.
I must say, a very well put and articulate post. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Anyway, back to the topic, this is what I as an outsider has observed in this country and even other European countries. It's going to be a long post.
It's easy to understand the situation if you stop seeing left vs right as good vs bad and just see them as groups of politicians in power struggle. Ideologies are just tools. All they cared are about vote banks.
1) Left wing parties' major vote bank was traditionally the working class.
2) In the past few decades, the size of working class has been reducing as many have moved to middle class. This resulted in a reduction in their vote banks too. Unions based politics alone won't help them anymore.
3) With increase in immigration, they tried to be too clever by changing their image to be the party of social minorities too to develop their vote bank. They indulged in identity politics. This backfired in a way they didn't expect.
4) The new vote bank of immigrants are divided among themselves. India vs Pakistan, Israel vs Palestine, Muslims vs LGBT. Any stance they take on these matters is going to lose them votes from one of the groups. Anti-Semitism allegations, Indians going against Labour because of their stance on Kashmir are evidences for it.
5) They also managed to piss of their existing vote bank. Repeatedly using "white privilege" as a stick to beat down every white person doesn't help.
6) Social welfare works well only if the ratio of people paying in and the amount of people taking out is healthy. If you are going to take in numerous refugees, you need to explain how you are going to balance the ratio. This again indirectly affects the working class because they are the ones who depend more on social welfare.
So they have a vote bank with many conflicting interests(Brexit is another example). It is hard to satisfy everyone. What does the right wing party do? Just wait for left wing parties to make mistakes and point out their hypocrisies to the voters. That was good enough to pull away a big chunk to their side.
The most successful left wing party in Europe that I know of is the Social Democratic party of Denmark. They are the ones who were clever enough to understand the conflict of interest and even took a hard stance against refugees.
People have always been selfish. Political parties who adapt well to situations have always won. Present days are no different.
If I'm not mistaken, you are an immigrant in the UK? Apologies if I'm wrong.
My wonder is how you have so much more of an understanding than people who are UK nationals.
I must say, a very well put and articulate post."
Thanks!
I moved to the UK from India only over three years back. But have been following Western politics for a long time. Blessed with some friends who live all over the world with having wide range of political views but also happy to have friendly political debates without insulting each other, something rare to find these days  |
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"Tories with their corruption, lies & greed popular, after all they were voted in.
RNLI attacked by yobs, egged on by the arsehole farrage,
Less police, erosion of workers rights, police, legal aid, labour party in decline, nhs privatisation, big pharma ripping off the nhs, fucking stupid needless wars (and before you have a go at me, ive been involved in wars as a medic, trying to stop people dying, doing what i could for the dead and also a nurse in the NHS)
Thank god for Russia stopping the americans from fully invading Syria!
Care home crisis getting worse, billionaire companies not paying taxes,
Endless popularity shown to a shit tory cabinet by the masses
Is it all an indication that we are an intolerant selfish greedy country now?
"
Apparently the RNLI bit backfired, they have had a record amount of donations. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The latest YouGov poll
41% intend to vote right wing whilst 51% intend to vote left wing. That doesn't include the SNP.
I'd hardly say that makes the UK a Right Wing nation."
Agree…that’s why the opposition parties need to agree an electoral pact and put the country before their tribal loyalty. It’s not too late |
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By *estivalMan
over a year ago
borehamwood |
"The latest YouGov poll
41% intend to vote right wing whilst 51% intend to vote left wing. That doesn't include the SNP.
I'd hardly say that makes the UK a Right Wing nation.
Agree…that’s why the opposition parties need to agree an electoral pact and put the country before their tribal loyalty. It’s not too late "
not going to happen,apparently brexit was the biggest threat to the country for years and they refused to work together to keep the cons out,in fact they ended up giving them more seats than they could of dreamed of winning,the lib dems and greens are not even worth counting as they win so few seats anyway and the snp are the only party that could help labour boot the torys out,but labour have two probs there if there trying to win voters back they lost last time throwing there hat in with the snp is likley to make those voters stay away plus they wouldnt agree to give the snp what they want to share power,just my point of view from someone who has no team in the game |
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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago
North West |
The reality is that the Conservatives know how to manipulate people and they do it very well.
It is quite sad how so many people get sucked in, but that is the power of propaganda and it has always worked best on ordinary working people. Ordinary people need something to believe in and the current Govt are feeding them Nationalism to keep them on side and distracted.
It’s always someone else’s fault that poor people are poor and/or times are hard and as long as we keep blaming them, we won’t focus on the ever increasing wealth disparity in this country.
The current obsession with cross channel migrants is nauseating. It’s not like people who have it hard are going to have it even harder because a few penniless and desperate people are joining their ranks by crossing the channel in boats. Poor people don’t become poorer because there are more poor people around. They are poor and become poorer because of political decisions that favour big business. |
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"Both extreme right and left wing are bad, labour didn't get voted in because they went to far left, the tories didn't go as far right.
The majority sit around the centre slightly left or right, despite what people think we are really a 2 party country so the one that plays the middle ground the best gets in.
Yes people are selfish but that is the same on the left as the right, having worked in China I saw selfishness just the same as here.
Saying all of that we are still one of the most open and tolerant countries in the world
Can you give me just 1 example of labour going "too far left?
If you dont think this current lot are far right...well politeness stops me going any further.
An MP liking and retweeting a tweet that said "r*pe victims must shut up for the sake of diversity". I personally would never vote for that party until she is kicked out.
Sorry was that an official policy or are we now just picking out individual things an mp said?
I personally wouldnt vote for someone who made comments about muslim women looking like letter boxes but millions did.
A party that suspends people like Trevor Philips for just talking about grooming gangs to not take any action on a person who posted such a vile tweet - it is their official stance.
If you think that comment about muslim women's costume is same as that comment on r*pe victims, you have got some serious problems. Don't let your political inclinations blind you.
Can you explain to me how saying something like that is 'too left wing'
And how does it tie into the labour manifesto?
Lionel and myself are waiting.
Tbf I think the argument that the entire labour party are too left wing because 1 person retweeted something incredibly stupid a few years ago,to he completely convincing.
It's not about that tweet. It's about how the party reacted to it. They have suspended others in the party for saying stuff that sounded remotely racist. But such a horrible statement going unpunished tells a lot about their party."
I asked what policies were too left wing.
You have quoted the tweet and are now saying it's nothing to do with the tweet.
So I'll try again
. What specific policies were'too left wing? |
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"Anyway, back to the topic, this is what I as an outsider has observed in this country and even other European countries. It's going to be a long post.
It's easy to understand the situation if you stop seeing left vs right as good vs bad and just see them as groups of politicians in power struggle. Ideologies are just tools. All they cared are about vote banks.
1) Left wing parties' major vote bank was traditionally the working class.
2) In the past few decades, the size of working class has been reducing as many have moved to middle class. This resulted in a reduction in their vote banks too. Unions based politics alone won't help them anymore.
3) With increase in immigration, they tried to be too clever by changing their image to be the party of social minorities too to develop their vote bank. They indulged in identity politics. This backfired in a way they didn't expect.
4) The new vote bank of immigrants are divided among themselves. India vs Pakistan, Israel vs Palestine, Muslims vs LGBT. Any stance they take on these matters is going to lose them votes from one of the groups. Anti-Semitism allegations, Indians going against Labour because of their stance on Kashmir are evidences for it.
5) They also managed to piss of their existing vote bank. Repeatedly using "white privilege" as a stick to beat down every white person doesn't help.
6) Social welfare works well only if the ratio of people paying in and the amount of people taking out is healthy. If you are going to take in numerous refugees, you need to explain how you are going to balance the ratio. This again indirectly affects the working class because they are the ones who depend more on social welfare.
So they have a vote bank with many conflicting interests(Brexit is another example). It is hard to satisfy everyone. What does the right wing party do? Just wait for left wing parties to make mistakes and point out their hypocrisies to the voters. That was good enough to pull away a big chunk to their side.
The most successful left wing party in Europe that I know of is the Social Democratic party of Denmark. They are the ones who were clever enough to understand the conflict of interest and even took a hard stance against refugees.
People have always been selfish. Political parties who adapt well to situations have always won. Present days are no different."
Tbh there is a lot there I cant disagree with.
There is certainly a case to be made the traditional working class vote has splintered..especially in the north.
You have many in the big cities you have stayed loyal to labour while those in the smaller towns felt new labour had let them down and as a protest voted for one of the most right wing gmnts in history.
Quite how labour square that circle is anyones guess.
One of new labours biggest mistake was to ignore the thorny issue of immigration which led to the rise of ukip and the likes of Tommy Robinson. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Both extreme right and left wing are bad, labour didn't get voted in because they went to far left, the tories didn't go as far right.
The majority sit around the centre slightly left or right, despite what people think we are really a 2 party country so the one that plays the middle ground the best gets in.
Yes people are selfish but that is the same on the left as the right, having worked in China I saw selfishness just the same as here.
Saying all of that we are still one of the most open and tolerant countries in the world
Can you give me just 1 example of labour going "too far left?
If you dont think this current lot are far right...well politeness stops me going any further.
An MP liking and retweeting a tweet that said "r*pe victims must shut up for the sake of diversity". I personally would never vote for that party until she is kicked out.
Sorry was that an official policy or are we now just picking out individual things an mp said?
I personally wouldnt vote for someone who made comments about muslim women looking like letter boxes but millions did.
A party that suspends people like Trevor Philips for just talking about grooming gangs to not take any action on a person who posted such a vile tweet - it is their official stance.
If you think that comment about muslim women's costume is same as that comment on r*pe victims, you have got some serious problems. Don't let your political inclinations blind you.
Can you explain to me how saying something like that is 'too left wing'
And how does it tie into the labour manifesto?
Lionel and myself are waiting.
Tbf I think the argument that the entire labour party are too left wing because 1 person retweeted something incredibly stupid a few years ago,to he completely convincing.
It's not about that tweet. It's about how the party reacted to it. They have suspended others in the party for saying stuff that sounded remotely racist. But such a horrible statement going unpunished tells a lot about their party.
I asked what policies were too left wing.
You have quoted the tweet and are now saying it's nothing to do with the tweet.
So I'll try again
. What specific policies were'too left wing?"
It doesnt matter what your policies are when the party is full of cretins that embrace identity politics. The party infested with left wing radicals in the form of Momentum. These are not your normal unionist left. Labour has alienated those people as said by a poster above. It's now the party for anyone who went to uni, has a social science degree and goes ti Glastonbury. Not Terry down the steelworks.
Take my dad for example, ex printer and trade union member and was at the Poll tax riots, wouldnt touch Labour with a barge pole now
You have been told this multiple times, on multiple threads, by multiple people. Maybe you should start listening to what we are saying instead of deflecting. |
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"Both extreme right and left wing are bad, labour didn't get voted in because they went to far left, the tories didn't go as far right.
The majority sit around the centre slightly left or right, despite what people think we are really a 2 party country so the one that plays the middle ground the best gets in.
Yes people are selfish but that is the same on the left as the right, having worked in China I saw selfishness just the same as here.
Saying all of that we are still one of the most open and tolerant countries in the world
Can you give me just 1 example of labour going "too far left?
If you dont think this current lot are far right...well politeness stops me going any further.
An MP liking and retweeting a tweet that said "r*pe victims must shut up for the sake of diversity". I personally would never vote for that party until she is kicked out.
Sorry was that an official policy or are we now just picking out individual things an mp said?
I personally wouldnt vote for someone who made comments about muslim women looking like letter boxes but millions did.
A party that suspends people like Trevor Philips for just talking about grooming gangs to not take any action on a person who posted such a vile tweet - it is their official stance.
If you think that comment about muslim women's costume is same as that comment on r*pe victims, you have got some serious problems. Don't let your political inclinations blind you.
Can you explain to me how saying something like that is 'too left wing'
And how does it tie into the labour manifesto?
Lionel and myself are waiting.
Tbf I think the argument that the entire labour party are too left wing because 1 person retweeted something incredibly stupid a few years ago,to he completely convincing.
It's not about that tweet. It's about how the party reacted to it. They have suspended others in the party for saying stuff that sounded remotely racist. But such a horrible statement going unpunished tells a lot about their party.
I asked what policies were too left wing.
You have quoted the tweet and are now saying it's nothing to do with the tweet.
So I'll try again
. What specific policies were'too left wing?
It doesnt matter what your policies are when the party is full of cretins that embrace identity politics. The party infested with left wing radicals in the form of Momentum. These are not your normal unionist left. Labour has alienated those people as said by a poster above. It's now the party for anyone who went to uni, has a social science degree and goes ti Glastonbury. Not Terry down the steelworks.
Take my dad for example, ex printer and trade union member and was at the Poll tax riots, wouldnt touch Labour with a barge pole now
You have been told this multiple times, on multiple threads, by multiple people. Maybe you should start listening to what we are saying instead of deflecting. "
To clarify
You are saying the party is too left wing
And asking for 1 specific policy which is too left wing is deflecting?
I always find it amusing when people bang on about the party being too radical but cannot provide 1 simple example to back up this claim. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Both extreme right and left wing are bad, labour didn't get voted in because they went to far left, the tories didn't go as far right.
The majority sit around the centre slightly left or right, despite what people think we are really a 2 party country so the one that plays the middle ground the best gets in.
Yes people are selfish but that is the same on the left as the right, having worked in China I saw selfishness just the same as here.
Saying all of that we are still one of the most open and tolerant countries in the world
Can you give me just 1 example of labour going "too far left?
If you dont think this current lot are far right...well politeness stops me going any further.
An MP liking and retweeting a tweet that said "r*pe victims must shut up for the sake of diversity". I personally would never vote for that party until she is kicked out.
Sorry was that an official policy or are we now just picking out individual things an mp said?
I personally wouldnt vote for someone who made comments about muslim women looking like letter boxes but millions did.
A party that suspends people like Trevor Philips for just talking about grooming gangs to not take any action on a person who posted such a vile tweet - it is their official stance.
If you think that comment about muslim women's costume is same as that comment on r*pe victims, you have got some serious problems. Don't let your political inclinations blind you.
Can you explain to me how saying something like that is 'too left wing'
And how does it tie into the labour manifesto?
Lionel and myself are waiting.
Tbf I think the argument that the entire labour party are too left wing because 1 person retweeted something incredibly stupid a few years ago,to he completely convincing.
It's not about that tweet. It's about how the party reacted to it. They have suspended others in the party for saying stuff that sounded remotely racist. But such a horrible statement going unpunished tells a lot about their party.
I asked what policies were too left wing.
You have quoted the tweet and are now saying it's nothing to do with the tweet.
So I'll try again
. What specific policies were'too left wing?
It doesnt matter what your policies are when the party is full of cretins that embrace identity politics. The party infested with left wing radicals in the form of Momentum. These are not your normal unionist left. Labour has alienated those people as said by a poster above. It's now the party for anyone who went to uni, has a social science degree and goes ti Glastonbury. Not Terry down the steelworks.
Take my dad for example, ex printer and trade union member and was at the Poll tax riots, wouldnt touch Labour with a barge pole now
You have been told this multiple times, on multiple threads, by multiple people. Maybe you should start listening to what we are saying instead of deflecting.
To clarify
You are saying the party is too left wing
And asking for 1 specific policy which is too left wing is deflecting?
I always find it amusing when people bang on about the party being too radical but cannot provide 1 simple example to back up this claim."
Well off the top of my head for one wasnt one policy of labour to forcefully buy back empty property in London? That is literally forced wealth distribution.
The Broadband one, I'm not sure how that was supposed to work? Was the government going to lay all it's own fibre optic network? I very much doubt that.
They cosied up to BLM pretty quickly. BLM ARE a Marxist organisation, no matter how much you try and cry otherwise they are. They deleted that info off their website pretty quickly when people pointed it out. Its Archived if you wanted to look. Said stuff like abolishment of the police and Capitalism
But again you are not listening to what people are saying. It doesnt matter about your policies when nobody likes the people making them.
|
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Both extreme right and left wing are bad, labour didn't get voted in because they went to far left, the tories didn't go as far right.
The majority sit around the centre slightly left or right, despite what people think we are really a 2 party country so the one that plays the middle ground the best gets in.
Yes people are selfish but that is the same on the left as the right, having worked in China I saw selfishness just the same as here.
Saying all of that we are still one of the most open and tolerant countries in the world
Can you give me just 1 example of labour going "too far left?
If you dont think this current lot are far right...well politeness stops me going any further.
An MP liking and retweeting a tweet that said "r*pe victims must shut up for the sake of diversity". I personally would never vote for that party until she is kicked out.
Sorry was that an official policy or are we now just picking out individual things an mp said?
I personally wouldnt vote for someone who made comments about muslim women looking like letter boxes but millions did.
A party that suspends people like Trevor Philips for just talking about grooming gangs to not take any action on a person who posted such a vile tweet - it is their official stance.
If you think that comment about muslim women's costume is same as that comment on r*pe victims, you have got some serious problems. Don't let your political inclinations blind you.
Can you explain to me how saying something like that is 'too left wing'
And how does it tie into the labour manifesto?
Lionel and myself are waiting.
Tbf I think the argument that the entire labour party are too left wing because 1 person retweeted something incredibly stupid a few years ago,to he completely convincing.
It's not about that tweet. It's about how the party reacted to it. They have suspended others in the party for saying stuff that sounded remotely racist. But such a horrible statement going unpunished tells a lot about their party.
I asked what policies were too left wing.
You have quoted the tweet and are now saying it's nothing to do with the tweet.
So I'll try again
. What specific policies were'too left wing?
It doesnt matter what your policies are when the party is full of cretins that embrace identity politics. The party infested with left wing radicals in the form of Momentum. These are not your normal unionist left. Labour has alienated those people as said by a poster above. It's now the party for anyone who went to uni, has a social science degree and goes ti Glastonbury. Not Terry down the steelworks.
Take my dad for example, ex printer and trade union member and was at the Poll tax riots, wouldnt touch Labour with a barge pole now
You have been told this multiple times, on multiple threads, by multiple people. Maybe you should start listening to what we are saying instead of deflecting. "
They won't listen. They don't get it.
Largely the people of this country want a government that is more centrist than anything else imo.
Labour have now moved closer to there, so they have a chance next time round.
Last one was an anomaly because of the Brexir issue but next one should be much more interesting. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"Anyway, back to the topic, this is what I as an outsider has observed in this country and even other European countries. It's going to be a long post.
It's easy to understand the situation if you stop seeing left vs right as good vs bad and just see them as groups of politicians in power struggle. Ideologies are just tools. All they cared are about vote banks.
1) Left wing parties' major vote bank was traditionally the working class.
2) In the past few decades, the size of working class has been reducing as many have moved to middle class. This resulted in a reduction in their vote banks too. Unions based politics alone won't help them anymore.
3) With increase in immigration, they tried to be too clever by changing their image to be the party of social minorities too to develop their vote bank. They indulged in identity politics. This backfired in a way they didn't expect.
4) The new vote bank of immigrants are divided among themselves. India vs Pakistan, Israel vs Palestine, Muslims vs LGBT. Any stance they take on these matters is going to lose them votes from one of the groups. Anti-Semitism allegations, Indians going against Labour because of their stance on Kashmir are evidences for it.
5) They also managed to piss of their existing vote bank. Repeatedly using "white privilege" as a stick to beat down every white person doesn't help.
6) Social welfare works well only if the ratio of people paying in and the amount of people taking out is healthy. If you are going to take in numerous refugees, you need to explain how you are going to balance the ratio. This again indirectly affects the working class because they are the ones who depend more on social welfare.
So they have a vote bank with many conflicting interests(Brexit is another example). It is hard to satisfy everyone. What does the right wing party do? Just wait for left wing parties to make mistakes and point out their hypocrisies to the voters. That was good enough to pull away a big chunk to their side.
The most successful left wing party in Europe that I know of is the Social Democratic party of Denmark. They are the ones who were clever enough to understand the conflict of interest and even took a hard stance against refugees.
People have always been selfish. Political parties who adapt well to situations have always won. Present days are no different.
Tbh there is a lot there I cant disagree with.
There is certainly a case to be made the traditional working class vote has splintered..especially in the north.
You have many in the big cities you have stayed loyal to labour while those in the smaller towns felt new labour had let them down and as a protest voted for one of the most right wing gmnts in history.
Quite how labour square that circle is anyones guess.
One of new labours biggest mistake was to ignore the thorny issue of immigration which led to the rise of ukip and the likes of Tommy Robinson."
I fully agree. We've got finite resources and have to get a grip on immigration.
How the government are supposedly doing it is a totally shambolic failure.
Having people risk their lives by coming over in dinghies
Selfishly and endlessly importing skilled workers instead of employing and investing in uk citizens.
I know im going to get flak saying that but its an unsustainable attitude.
While labour floundered the tories just lied about controlling the borders. Now we're in the mess we're in they continue on the path of disaster
|
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"Both extreme right and left wing are bad, labour didn't get voted in because they went to far left, the tories didn't go as far right.
The majority sit around the centre slightly left or right, despite what people think we are really a 2 party country so the one that plays the middle ground the best gets in.
Yes people are selfish but that is the same on the left as the right, having worked in China I saw selfishness just the same as here.
Saying all of that we are still one of the most open and tolerant countries in the world
Can you give me just 1 example of labour going "too far left?
If you dont think this current lot are far right...well politeness stops me going any further.
An MP liking and retweeting a tweet that said "r*pe victims must shut up for the sake of diversity". I personally would never vote for that party until she is kicked out.
Sorry was that an official policy or are we now just picking out individual things an mp said?
I personally wouldnt vote for someone who made comments about muslim women looking like letter boxes but millions did.
A party that suspends people like Trevor Philips for just talking about grooming gangs to not take any action on a person who posted such a vile tweet - it is their official stance.
If you think that comment about muslim women's costume is same as that comment on r*pe victims, you have got some serious problems. Don't let your political inclinations blind you.
Can you explain to me how saying something like that is 'too left wing'
And how does it tie into the labour manifesto?
Lionel and myself are waiting.
Tbf I think the argument that the entire labour party are too left wing because 1 person retweeted something incredibly stupid a few years ago,to he completely convincing.
It's not about that tweet. It's about how the party reacted to it. They have suspended others in the party for saying stuff that sounded remotely racist. But such a horrible statement going unpunished tells a lot about their party.
I asked what policies were too left wing.
You have quoted the tweet and are now saying it's nothing to do with the tweet.
So I'll try again
. What specific policies were'too left wing?
It doesnt matter what your policies are when the party is full of cretins that embrace identity politics. The party infested with left wing radicals in the form of Momentum. These are not your normal unionist left. Labour has alienated those people as said by a poster above. It's now the party for anyone who went to uni, has a social science degree and goes ti Glastonbury. Not Terry down the steelworks.
Take my dad for example, ex printer and trade union member and was at the Poll tax riots, wouldnt touch Labour with a barge pole now
You have been told this multiple times, on multiple threads, by multiple people. Maybe you should start listening to what we are saying instead of deflecting.
To clarify
You are saying the party is too left wing
And asking for 1 specific policy which is too left wing is deflecting?
I always find it amusing when people bang on about the party being too radical but cannot provide 1 simple example to back up this claim.
Well off the top of my head for one wasnt one policy of labour to forcefully buy back empty property in London? That is literally forced wealth distribution.
The Broadband one, I'm not sure how that was supposed to work? Was the government going to lay all it's own fibre optic network? I very much doubt that.
They cosied up to BLM pretty quickly. BLM ARE a Marxist organisation, no matter how much you try and cry otherwise they are. They deleted that info off their website pretty quickly when people pointed it out. Its Archived if you wanted to look. Said stuff like abolishment of the police and Capitalism
But again you are not listening to what people are saying. It doesnt matter about your policies when nobody likes the people making them.
"
I don't know about the london one so I'll read up on that..but I'm sure having empty properties when there is a housing crises is a splendid idea.
Cosying up to the blm was not a policy and clearly something you have just invented ,unless you want to point me in the direction of a labour policy calling for the police to be funded?
The broadband policy was designed to level up the country.
Internet has and will become more and more important in our lives but obviously an inclusive policy which will benefit everyone in the long run is a bad move.
There was an it specialist on radio 4 a while ago who said it made perfect sense and would create jobs in the long run.
Presumably it would have have come in useful in the last year.
Personally I wouldnt call a policy which improves the lives of everyone on the country as radical but you obviously beg to differ.
And you also seem to be saying you dont like labour because you dont like some of the people in the party.
So be my guest and vote Tory.. great bunch of lads. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Both extreme right and left wing are bad, labour didn't get voted in because they went to far left, the tories didn't go as far right.
The majority sit around the centre slightly left or right, despite what people think we are really a 2 party country so the one that plays the middle ground the best gets in.
Yes people are selfish but that is the same on the left as the right, having worked in China I saw selfishness just the same as here.
Saying all of that we are still one of the most open and tolerant countries in the world
Can you give me just 1 example of labour going "too far left?
If you dont think this current lot are far right...well politeness stops me going any further.
An MP liking and retweeting a tweet that said "r*pe victims must shut up for the sake of diversity". I personally would never vote for that party until she is kicked out.
Sorry was that an official policy or are we now just picking out individual things an mp said?
I personally wouldnt vote for someone who made comments about muslim women looking like letter boxes but millions did.
A party that suspends people like Trevor Philips for just talking about grooming gangs to not take any action on a person who posted such a vile tweet - it is their official stance.
If you think that comment about muslim women's costume is same as that comment on r*pe victims, you have got some serious problems. Don't let your political inclinations blind you.
Can you explain to me how saying something like that is 'too left wing'
And how does it tie into the labour manifesto?
Lionel and myself are waiting.
Tbf I think the argument that the entire labour party are too left wing because 1 person retweeted something incredibly stupid a few years ago,to he completely convincing.
It's not about that tweet. It's about how the party reacted to it. They have suspended others in the party for saying stuff that sounded remotely racist. But such a horrible statement going unpunished tells a lot about their party.
I asked what policies were too left wing.
You have quoted the tweet and are now saying it's nothing to do with the tweet.
So I'll try again
. What specific policies were'too left wing?
It doesnt matter what your policies are when the party is full of cretins that embrace identity politics. The party infested with left wing radicals in the form of Momentum. These are not your normal unionist left. Labour has alienated those people as said by a poster above. It's now the party for anyone who went to uni, has a social science degree and goes ti Glastonbury. Not Terry down the steelworks.
Take my dad for example, ex printer and trade union member and was at the Poll tax riots, wouldnt touch Labour with a barge pole now
You have been told this multiple times, on multiple threads, by multiple people. Maybe you should start listening to what we are saying instead of deflecting.
They won't listen. They don't get it.
Largely the people of this country want a government that is more centrist than anything else imo.
Labour have now moved closer to there, so they have a chance next time round.
Last one was an anomaly because of the Brexir issue but next one should be much more interesting."
Yep very much agree. As much as certain people think I'm some sort of far right extremist I am centre left. I am a traditional labour voter, or atleast I would of been 20 years ago.
The wars we where dragged into by Labour at that time does make it a harder choice though. That has definitely tainted Labour for people around my age who lived through it as kids. But I'm not pro war or anti war in that regard. I can see the bigger geopolitical picture. Saddam fed civilians to his dogs and we blew up civilians. Who is worse? That's a very deep philosophical conversation tbh.
I dont think the left/right binary even helps at this moment and just muddies everything up. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Both extreme right and left wing are bad, labour didn't get voted in because they went to far left, the tories didn't go as far right.
The majority sit around the centre slightly left or right, despite what people think we are really a 2 party country so the one that plays the middle ground the best gets in.
Yes people are selfish but that is the same on the left as the right, having worked in China I saw selfishness just the same as here.
Saying all of that we are still one of the most open and tolerant countries in the world
Can you give me just 1 example of labour going "too far left?
If you dont think this current lot are far right...well politeness stops me going any further.
An MP liking and retweeting a tweet that said "r*pe victims must shut up for the sake of diversity". I personally would never vote for that party until she is kicked out.
Sorry was that an official policy or are we now just picking out individual things an mp said?
I personally wouldnt vote for someone who made comments about muslim women looking like letter boxes but millions did.
A party that suspends people like Trevor Philips for just talking about grooming gangs to not take any action on a person who posted such a vile tweet - it is their official stance.
If you think that comment about muslim women's costume is same as that comment on r*pe victims, you have got some serious problems. Don't let your political inclinations blind you.
Can you explain to me how saying something like that is 'too left wing'
And how does it tie into the labour manifesto?
Lionel and myself are waiting.
Tbf I think the argument that the entire labour party are too left wing because 1 person retweeted something incredibly stupid a few years ago,to he completely convincing.
It's not about that tweet. It's about how the party reacted to it. They have suspended others in the party for saying stuff that sounded remotely racist. But such a horrible statement going unpunished tells a lot about their party.
I asked what policies were too left wing.
You have quoted the tweet and are now saying it's nothing to do with the tweet.
So I'll try again
. What specific policies were'too left wing?
It doesnt matter what your policies are when the party is full of cretins that embrace identity politics. The party infested with left wing radicals in the form of Momentum. These are not your normal unionist left. Labour has alienated those people as said by a poster above. It's now the party for anyone who went to uni, has a social science degree and goes ti Glastonbury. Not Terry down the steelworks.
Take my dad for example, ex printer and trade union member and was at the Poll tax riots, wouldnt touch Labour with a barge pole now
You have been told this multiple times, on multiple threads, by multiple people. Maybe you should start listening to what we are saying instead of deflecting.
To clarify
You are saying the party is too left wing
And asking for 1 specific policy which is too left wing is deflecting?
I always find it amusing when people bang on about the party being too radical but cannot provide 1 simple example to back up this claim.
Well off the top of my head for one wasnt one policy of labour to forcefully buy back empty property in London? That is literally forced wealth distribution.
The Broadband one, I'm not sure how that was supposed to work? Was the government going to lay all it's own fibre optic network? I very much doubt that.
They cosied up to BLM pretty quickly. BLM ARE a Marxist organisation, no matter how much you try and cry otherwise they are. They deleted that info off their website pretty quickly when people pointed it out. Its Archived if you wanted to look. Said stuff like abolishment of the police and Capitalism
But again you are not listening to what people are saying. It doesnt matter about your policies when nobody likes the people making them.
I don't know about the london one so I'll read up on that..but I'm sure having empty properties when there is a housing crises is a splendid idea.
Cosying up to the blm was not a policy and clearly something you have just invented ,unless you want to point me in the direction of a labour policy calling for the police to be funded?
The broadband policy was designed to level up the country.
Internet has and will become more and more important in our lives but obviously an inclusive policy which will benefit everyone in the long run is a bad move.
There was an it specialist on radio 4 a while ago who said it made perfect sense and would create jobs in the long run.
Presumably it would have have come in useful in the last year.
Personally I wouldnt call a policy which improves the lives of everyone on the country as radical but you obviously beg to differ.
And you also seem to be saying you dont like labour because you dont like some of the people in the party.
So be my guest and vote Tory.. great bunch of lads."
I didnt vote for the Tories either. Sorry to burst your bubble.
I also didnt vote for Brexit. I know your mind is blown
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Love the way people chat shit,dont back up their arguments and then just claim that people dont listen.
A splendid argument."
Love the way you wanna chat to me but won't actually direct it towards me.
I don't know how many times I've told you, if you'd like to have a discussion, then I'm all for it.
The fact is that left wing labour supporters don't listen to what others want. The proof is in the pudding my friend 
You fucking hate Starmer because he's more centrist, it proves you see Labour as nothing if they are not left wing. |
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"Both extreme right and left wing are bad, labour didn't get voted in because they went to far left, the tories didn't go as far right.
The majority sit around the centre slightly left or right, despite what people think we are really a 2 party country so the one that plays the middle ground the best gets in.
Yes people are selfish but that is the same on the left as the right, having worked in China I saw selfishness just the same as here.
Saying all of that we are still one of the most open and tolerant countries in the world
Can you give me just 1 example of labour going "too far left?
If you dont think this current lot are far right...well politeness stops me going any further.
An MP liking and retweeting a tweet that said "r*pe victims must shut up for the sake of diversity". I personally would never vote for that party until she is kicked out.
Sorry was that an official policy or are we now just picking out individual things an mp said?
I personally wouldnt vote for someone who made comments about muslim women looking like letter boxes but millions did.
A party that suspends people like Trevor Philips for just talking about grooming gangs to not take any action on a person who posted such a vile tweet - it is their official stance.
If you think that comment about muslim women's costume is same as that comment on r*pe victims, you have got some serious problems. Don't let your political inclinations blind you.
Can you explain to me how saying something like that is 'too left wing'
And how does it tie into the labour manifesto?
Lionel and myself are waiting.
Tbf I think the argument that the entire labour party are too left wing because 1 person retweeted something incredibly stupid a few years ago,to he completely convincing.
It's not about that tweet. It's about how the party reacted to it. They have suspended others in the party for saying stuff that sounded remotely racist. But such a horrible statement going unpunished tells a lot about their party.
I asked what policies were too left wing.
You have quoted the tweet and are now saying it's nothing to do with the tweet.
So I'll try again
. What specific policies were'too left wing?
It doesnt matter what your policies are when the party is full of cretins that embrace identity politics. The party infested with left wing radicals in the form of Momentum. These are not your normal unionist left. Labour has alienated those people as said by a poster above. It's now the party for anyone who went to uni, has a social science degree and goes ti Glastonbury. Not Terry down the steelworks.
Take my dad for example, ex printer and trade union member and was at the Poll tax riots, wouldnt touch Labour with a barge pole now
You have been told this multiple times, on multiple threads, by multiple people. Maybe you should start listening to what we are saying instead of deflecting.
To clarify
You are saying the party is too left wing
And asking for 1 specific policy which is too left wing is deflecting?
I always find it amusing when people bang on about the party being too radical but cannot provide 1 simple example to back up this claim.
Well off the top of my head for one wasnt one policy of labour to forcefully buy back empty property in London? That is literally forced wealth distribution.
The Broadband one, I'm not sure how that was supposed to work? Was the government going to lay all it's own fibre optic network? I very much doubt that.
They cosied up to BLM pretty quickly. BLM ARE a Marxist organisation, no matter how much you try and cry otherwise they are. They deleted that info off their website pretty quickly when people pointed it out. Its Archived if you wanted to look. Said stuff like abolishment of the police and Capitalism
But again you are not listening to what people are saying. It doesnt matter about your policies when nobody likes the people making them.
I don't know about the london one so I'll read up on that..but I'm sure having empty properties when there is a housing crises is a splendid idea.
Cosying up to the blm was not a policy and clearly something you have just invented ,unless you want to point me in the direction of a labour policy calling for the police to be funded?
The broadband policy was designed to level up the country.
Internet has and will become more and more important in our lives but obviously an inclusive policy which will benefit everyone in the long run is a bad move.
There was an it specialist on radio 4 a while ago who said it made perfect sense and would create jobs in the long run.
Presumably it would have have come in useful in the last year.
Personally I wouldnt call a policy which improves the lives of everyone on the country as radical but you obviously beg to differ.
And you also seem to be saying you dont like labour because you dont like some of the people in the party.
So be my guest and vote Tory.. great bunch of lads.
I didnt vote for the Tories either. Sorry to burst your bubble.
I also didnt vote for Brexit. I know your mind is blown
"
I couldn't really care less to tell you the truth.
Your argument that you wont vote for labour because you dont like the radical group momentum,who's influence has not actually translated into actual policy, has won me over.
You cant really argue with logic like that.
|
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|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Both extreme right and left wing are bad, labour didn't get voted in because they went to far left, the tories didn't go as far right.
The majority sit around the centre slightly left or right, despite what people think we are really a 2 party country so the one that plays the middle ground the best gets in.
Yes people are selfish but that is the same on the left as the right, having worked in China I saw selfishness just the same as here.
Saying all of that we are still one of the most open and tolerant countries in the world
Can you give me just 1 example of labour going "too far left?
If you dont think this current lot are far right...well politeness stops me going any further.
An MP liking and retweeting a tweet that said "r*pe victims must shut up for the sake of diversity". I personally would never vote for that party until she is kicked out.
Sorry was that an official policy or are we now just picking out individual things an mp said?
I personally wouldnt vote for someone who made comments about muslim women looking like letter boxes but millions did.
A party that suspends people like Trevor Philips for just talking about grooming gangs to not take any action on a person who posted such a vile tweet - it is their official stance.
If you think that comment about muslim women's costume is same as that comment on r*pe victims, you have got some serious problems. Don't let your political inclinations blind you.
Can you explain to me how saying something like that is 'too left wing'
And how does it tie into the labour manifesto?
Lionel and myself are waiting.
Tbf I think the argument that the entire labour party are too left wing because 1 person retweeted something incredibly stupid a few years ago,to he completely convincing.
It's not about that tweet. It's about how the party reacted to it. They have suspended others in the party for saying stuff that sounded remotely racist. But such a horrible statement going unpunished tells a lot about their party.
I asked what policies were too left wing.
You have quoted the tweet and are now saying it's nothing to do with the tweet.
So I'll try again
. What specific policies were'too left wing?
It doesnt matter what your policies are when the party is full of cretins that embrace identity politics. The party infested with left wing radicals in the form of Momentum. These are not your normal unionist left. Labour has alienated those people as said by a poster above. It's now the party for anyone who went to uni, has a social science degree and goes ti Glastonbury. Not Terry down the steelworks.
Take my dad for example, ex printer and trade union member and was at the Poll tax riots, wouldnt touch Labour with a barge pole now
You have been told this multiple times, on multiple threads, by multiple people. Maybe you should start listening to what we are saying instead of deflecting.
To clarify
You are saying the party is too left wing
And asking for 1 specific policy which is too left wing is deflecting?
I always find it amusing when people bang on about the party being too radical but cannot provide 1 simple example to back up this claim.
Well off the top of my head for one wasnt one policy of labour to forcefully buy back empty property in London? That is literally forced wealth distribution.
The Broadband one, I'm not sure how that was supposed to work? Was the government going to lay all it's own fibre optic network? I very much doubt that.
They cosied up to BLM pretty quickly. BLM ARE a Marxist organisation, no matter how much you try and cry otherwise they are. They deleted that info off their website pretty quickly when people pointed it out. Its Archived if you wanted to look. Said stuff like abolishment of the police and Capitalism
But again you are not listening to what people are saying. It doesnt matter about your policies when nobody likes the people making them.
I don't know about the london one so I'll read up on that..but I'm sure having empty properties when there is a housing crises is a splendid idea.
Cosying up to the blm was not a policy and clearly something you have just invented ,unless you want to point me in the direction of a labour policy calling for the police to be funded?
The broadband policy was designed to level up the country.
Internet has and will become more and more important in our lives but obviously an inclusive policy which will benefit everyone in the long run is a bad move.
There was an it specialist on radio 4 a while ago who said it made perfect sense and would create jobs in the long run.
Presumably it would have have come in useful in the last year.
Personally I wouldnt call a policy which improves the lives of everyone on the country as radical but you obviously beg to differ.
And you also seem to be saying you dont like labour because you dont like some of the people in the party.
So be my guest and vote Tory.. great bunch of lads.
I didnt vote for the Tories either. Sorry to burst your bubble.
I also didnt vote for Brexit. I know your mind is blown
I couldn't really care less to tell you the truth.
Your argument that you wont vote for labour because you dont like the radical group momentum,who's influence has not actually translated into actual policy, has won me over.
You cant really argue with logic like that.
"
Re read my argument. I said Momentum is a part of it.
Overall labour is full of regressive identity politics cunts. If you dont understand that you will never understand why the general population other than as I said university students or stupid people that vote for labour just cos daddy voted labour so I should will vote for you.
There is only a certain amount of times people will stand being called racist by certain parts of the labour party(I'm sure we know the usual suspects) or sexist or any other pejorative they like to use before you get told to fuck off.
listen to that or not up to you. |
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|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Both extreme right and left wing are bad, labour didn't get voted in because they went to far left, the tories didn't go as far right.
The majority sit around the centre slightly left or right, despite what people think we are really a 2 party country so the one that plays the middle ground the best gets in.
Yes people are selfish but that is the same on the left as the right, having worked in China I saw selfishness just the same as here.
Saying all of that we are still one of the most open and tolerant countries in the world
Can you give me just 1 example of labour going "too far left?
If you dont think this current lot are far right...well politeness stops me going any further.
An MP liking and retweeting a tweet that said "r*pe victims must shut up for the sake of diversity". I personally would never vote for that party until she is kicked out.
Sorry was that an official policy or are we now just picking out individual things an mp said?
I personally wouldnt vote for someone who made comments about muslim women looking like letter boxes but millions did.
A party that suspends people like Trevor Philips for just talking about grooming gangs to not take any action on a person who posted such a vile tweet - it is their official stance.
If you think that comment about muslim women's costume is same as that comment on r*pe victims, you have got some serious problems. Don't let your political inclinations blind you.
Can you explain to me how saying something like that is 'too left wing'
And how does it tie into the labour manifesto?
Lionel and myself are waiting.
Tbf I think the argument that the entire labour party are too left wing because 1 person retweeted something incredibly stupid a few years ago,to he completely convincing.
It's not about that tweet. It's about how the party reacted to it. They have suspended others in the party for saying stuff that sounded remotely racist. But such a horrible statement going unpunished tells a lot about their party.
I asked what policies were too left wing.
You have quoted the tweet and are now saying it's nothing to do with the tweet.
So I'll try again
. What specific policies were'too left wing?
It doesnt matter what your policies are when the party is full of cretins that embrace identity politics. The party infested with left wing radicals in the form of Momentum. These are not your normal unionist left. Labour has alienated those people as said by a poster above. It's now the party for anyone who went to uni, has a social science degree and goes ti Glastonbury. Not Terry down the steelworks.
Take my dad for example, ex printer and trade union member and was at the Poll tax riots, wouldnt touch Labour with a barge pole now
You have been told this multiple times, on multiple threads, by multiple people. Maybe you should start listening to what we are saying instead of deflecting.
To clarify
You are saying the party is too left wing
And asking for 1 specific policy which is too left wing is deflecting?
I always find it amusing when people bang on about the party being too radical but cannot provide 1 simple example to back up this claim.
Well off the top of my head for one wasnt one policy of labour to forcefully buy back empty property in London? That is literally forced wealth distribution.
The Broadband one, I'm not sure how that was supposed to work? Was the government going to lay all it's own fibre optic network? I very much doubt that.
They cosied up to BLM pretty quickly. BLM ARE a Marxist organisation, no matter how much you try and cry otherwise they are. They deleted that info off their website pretty quickly when people pointed it out. Its Archived if you wanted to look. Said stuff like abolishment of the police and Capitalism
But again you are not listening to what people are saying. It doesnt matter about your policies when nobody likes the people making them.
I don't know about the london one so I'll read up on that..but I'm sure having empty properties when there is a housing crises is a splendid idea.
Cosying up to the blm was not a policy and clearly something you have just invented ,unless you want to point me in the direction of a labour policy calling for the police to be funded?
The broadband policy was designed to level up the country.
Internet has and will become more and more important in our lives but obviously an inclusive policy which will benefit everyone in the long run is a bad move.
There was an it specialist on radio 4 a while ago who said it made perfect sense and would create jobs in the long run.
Presumably it would have have come in useful in the last year.
Personally I wouldnt call a policy which improves the lives of everyone on the country as radical but you obviously beg to differ.
And you also seem to be saying you dont like labour because you dont like some of the people in the party.
So be my guest and vote Tory.. great bunch of lads.
I didnt vote for the Tories either. Sorry to burst your bubble.
I also didnt vote for Brexit. I know your mind is blown
I couldn't really care less to tell you the truth.
Your argument that you wont vote for labour because you dont like the radical group momentum,who's influence has not actually translated into actual policy, has won me over.
You cant really argue with logic like that.
"
Lostindreams put it way more eloquently than I could maybe you should re read that post. Maybe a couple of times until you understand. Maybe go watch some other points of view.
You won't ever understand the reasons people wont vote labour if you dont listen to what the your "opposition" are actually saying. Instead you constantly construct some weird strawman arguments. It's a bit tiring tbh
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Both extreme right and left wing are bad, labour didn't get voted in because they went to far left, the tories didn't go as far right.
The majority sit around the centre slightly left or right, despite what people think we are really a 2 party country so the one that plays the middle ground the best gets in.
Yes people are selfish but that is the same on the left as the right, having worked in China I saw selfishness just the same as here.
Saying all of that we are still one of the most open and tolerant countries in the world
Can you give me just 1 example of labour going "too far left?
If you dont think this current lot are far right...well politeness stops me going any further.
An MP liking and retweeting a tweet that said "r*pe victims must shut up for the sake of diversity". I personally would never vote for that party until she is kicked out.
Sorry was that an official policy or are we now just picking out individual things an mp said?
I personally wouldnt vote for someone who made comments about muslim women looking like letter boxes but millions did.
A party that suspends people like Trevor Philips for just talking about grooming gangs to not take any action on a person who posted such a vile tweet - it is their official stance.
If you think that comment about muslim women's costume is same as that comment on r*pe victims, you have got some serious problems. Don't let your political inclinations blind you.
Can you explain to me how saying something like that is 'too left wing'
And how does it tie into the labour manifesto?
Lionel and myself are waiting.
Tbf I think the argument that the entire labour party are too left wing because 1 person retweeted something incredibly stupid a few years ago,to he completely convincing.
It's not about that tweet. It's about how the party reacted to it. They have suspended others in the party for saying stuff that sounded remotely racist. But such a horrible statement going unpunished tells a lot about their party.
I asked what policies were too left wing.
You have quoted the tweet and are now saying it's nothing to do with the tweet.
So I'll try again
. What specific policies were'too left wing?
It doesnt matter what your policies are when the party is full of cretins that embrace identity politics. The party infested with left wing radicals in the form of Momentum. These are not your normal unionist left. Labour has alienated those people as said by a poster above. It's now the party for anyone who went to uni, has a social science degree and goes ti Glastonbury. Not Terry down the steelworks.
Take my dad for example, ex printer and trade union member and was at the Poll tax riots, wouldnt touch Labour with a barge pole now
You have been told this multiple times, on multiple threads, by multiple people. Maybe you should start listening to what we are saying instead of deflecting.
To clarify
You are saying the party is too left wing
And asking for 1 specific policy which is too left wing is deflecting?
I always find it amusing when people bang on about the party being too radical but cannot provide 1 simple example to back up this claim.
Well off the top of my head for one wasnt one policy of labour to forcefully buy back empty property in London? That is literally forced wealth distribution.
The Broadband one, I'm not sure how that was supposed to work? Was the government going to lay all it's own fibre optic network? I very much doubt that.
They cosied up to BLM pretty quickly. BLM ARE a Marxist organisation, no matter how much you try and cry otherwise they are. They deleted that info off their website pretty quickly when people pointed it out. Its Archived if you wanted to look. Said stuff like abolishment of the police and Capitalism
But again you are not listening to what people are saying. It doesnt matter about your policies when nobody likes the people making them.
I don't know about the london one so I'll read up on that..but I'm sure having empty properties when there is a housing crises is a splendid idea.
Cosying up to the blm was not a policy and clearly something you have just invented ,unless you want to point me in the direction of a labour policy calling for the police to be funded?
The broadband policy was designed to level up the country.
Internet has and will become more and more important in our lives but obviously an inclusive policy which will benefit everyone in the long run is a bad move.
There was an it specialist on radio 4 a while ago who said it made perfect sense and would create jobs in the long run.
Presumably it would have have come in useful in the last year.
Personally I wouldnt call a policy which improves the lives of everyone on the country as radical but you obviously beg to differ.
And you also seem to be saying you dont like labour because you dont like some of the people in the party.
So be my guest and vote Tory.. great bunch of lads.
I didnt vote for the Tories either. Sorry to burst your bubble.
I also didnt vote for Brexit. I know your mind is blown
I couldn't really care less to tell you the truth.
Your argument that you wont vote for labour because you dont like the radical group momentum,who's influence has not actually translated into actual policy, has won me over.
You cant really argue with logic like that.
Lostindreams put it way more eloquently than I could maybe you should re read that post. Maybe a couple of times until you understand. Maybe go watch some other points of view.
You won't ever understand the reasons people wont vote labour if you dont listen to what the your "opposition" are actually saying. Instead you constantly construct some weird strawman arguments. It's a bit tiring tbh
"
People can vote for who ever they like.
I really couldnt give a toss.
I just find it interesting when the reasons they give are factually incorrect.
It's a bit like me saying I'm not going to vote for the gmnt as they are too soft on immigration |
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"Both extreme right and left wing are bad, labour didn't get voted in because they went to far left, the tories didn't go as far right.
The majority sit around the centre slightly left or right, despite what people think we are really a 2 party country so the one that plays the middle ground the best gets in.
Yes people are selfish but that is the same on the left as the right, having worked in China I saw selfishness just the same as here.
Saying all of that we are still one of the most open and tolerant countries in the world
Can you give me just 1 example of labour going "too far left?
If you dont think this current lot are far right...well politeness stops me going any further.
An MP liking and retweeting a tweet that said "r*pe victims must shut up for the sake of diversity". I personally would never vote for that party until she is kicked out.
Sorry was that an official policy or are we now just picking out individual things an mp said?
I personally wouldnt vote for someone who made comments about muslim women looking like letter boxes but millions did.
A party that suspends people like Trevor Philips for just talking about grooming gangs to not take any action on a person who posted such a vile tweet - it is their official stance.
If you think that comment about muslim women's costume is same as that comment on r*pe victims, you have got some serious problems. Don't let your political inclinations blind you.
Can you explain to me how saying something like that is 'too left wing'
And how does it tie into the labour manifesto?
Lionel and myself are waiting.
Tbf I think the argument that the entire labour party are too left wing because 1 person retweeted something incredibly stupid a few years ago,to he completely convincing.
It's not about that tweet. It's about how the party reacted to it. They have suspended others in the party for saying stuff that sounded remotely racist. But such a horrible statement going unpunished tells a lot about their party.
I asked what policies were too left wing.
You have quoted the tweet and are now saying it's nothing to do with the tweet.
So I'll try again
. What specific policies were'too left wing?
It doesnt matter what your policies are when the party is full of cretins that embrace identity politics. The party infested with left wing radicals in the form of Momentum. These are not your normal unionist left. Labour has alienated those people as said by a poster above. It's now the party for anyone who went to uni, has a social science degree and goes ti Glastonbury. Not Terry down the steelworks.
Take my dad for example, ex printer and trade union member and was at the Poll tax riots, wouldnt touch Labour with a barge pole now
You have been told this multiple times, on multiple threads, by multiple people. Maybe you should start listening to what we are saying instead of deflecting.
To clarify
You are saying the party is too left wing
And asking for 1 specific policy which is too left wing is deflecting?
I always find it amusing when people bang on about the party being too radical but cannot provide 1 simple example to back up this claim.
Well off the top of my head for one wasnt one policy of labour to forcefully buy back empty property in London? That is literally forced wealth distribution.
The Broadband one, I'm not sure how that was supposed to work? Was the government going to lay all it's own fibre optic network? I very much doubt that.
They cosied up to BLM pretty quickly. BLM ARE a Marxist organisation, no matter how much you try and cry otherwise they are. They deleted that info off their website pretty quickly when people pointed it out. Its Archived if you wanted to look. Said stuff like abolishment of the police and Capitalism
But again you are not listening to what people are saying. It doesnt matter about your policies when nobody likes the people making them.
I don't know about the london one so I'll read up on that..but I'm sure having empty properties when there is a housing crises is a splendid idea.
Cosying up to the blm was not a policy and clearly something you have just invented ,unless you want to point me in the direction of a labour policy calling for the police to be funded?
The broadband policy was designed to level up the country.
Internet has and will become more and more important in our lives but obviously an inclusive policy which will benefit everyone in the long run is a bad move.
There was an it specialist on radio 4 a while ago who said it made perfect sense and would create jobs in the long run.
Presumably it would have have come in useful in the last year.
Personally I wouldnt call a policy which improves the lives of everyone on the country as radical but you obviously beg to differ.
And you also seem to be saying you dont like labour because you dont like some of the people in the party.
So be my guest and vote Tory.. great bunch of lads.
I didnt vote for the Tories either. Sorry to burst your bubble.
I also didnt vote for Brexit. I know your mind is blown
I couldn't really care less to tell you the truth.
Your argument that you wont vote for labour because you dont like the radical group momentum,who's influence has not actually translated into actual policy, has won me over.
You cant really argue with logic like that.
Re read my argument. I said Momentum is a part of it.
Overall labour is full of regressive identity politics cunts. If you dont understand that you will never understand why the general population other than as I said university students or stupid people that vote for labour just cos daddy voted labour so I should will vote for you.
There is only a certain amount of times people will stand being called racist by certain parts of the labour party(I'm sure we know the usual suspects) or sexist or any other pejorative they like to use before you get told to fuck off.
listen to that or not up to you."
The fact that you call people who vote labour stupid and then complain about being labelled pejorative terms,quite frankly, says it all. |
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|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Both extreme right and left wing are bad, labour didn't get voted in because they went to far left, the tories didn't go as far right.
The majority sit around the centre slightly left or right, despite what people think we are really a 2 party country so the one that plays the middle ground the best gets in.
Yes people are selfish but that is the same on the left as the right, having worked in China I saw selfishness just the same as here.
Saying all of that we are still one of the most open and tolerant countries in the world
Can you give me just 1 example of labour going "too far left?
If you dont think this current lot are far right...well politeness stops me going any further.
An MP liking and retweeting a tweet that said "r*pe victims must shut up for the sake of diversity". I personally would never vote for that party until she is kicked out.
Sorry was that an official policy or are we now just picking out individual things an mp said?
I personally wouldnt vote for someone who made comments about muslim women looking like letter boxes but millions did.
A party that suspends people like Trevor Philips for just talking about grooming gangs to not take any action on a person who posted such a vile tweet - it is their official stance.
If you think that comment about muslim women's costume is same as that comment on r*pe victims, you have got some serious problems. Don't let your political inclinations blind you.
Can you explain to me how saying something like that is 'too left wing'
And how does it tie into the labour manifesto?
Lionel and myself are waiting.
Tbf I think the argument that the entire labour party are too left wing because 1 person retweeted something incredibly stupid a few years ago,to he completely convincing.
It's not about that tweet. It's about how the party reacted to it. They have suspended others in the party for saying stuff that sounded remotely racist. But such a horrible statement going unpunished tells a lot about their party.
I asked what policies were too left wing.
You have quoted the tweet and are now saying it's nothing to do with the tweet.
So I'll try again
. What specific policies were'too left wing?
It doesnt matter what your policies are when the party is full of cretins that embrace identity politics. The party infested with left wing radicals in the form of Momentum. These are not your normal unionist left. Labour has alienated those people as said by a poster above. It's now the party for anyone who went to uni, has a social science degree and goes ti Glastonbury. Not Terry down the steelworks.
Take my dad for example, ex printer and trade union member and was at the Poll tax riots, wouldnt touch Labour with a barge pole now
You have been told this multiple times, on multiple threads, by multiple people. Maybe you should start listening to what we are saying instead of deflecting.
To clarify
You are saying the party is too left wing
And asking for 1 specific policy which is too left wing is deflecting?
I always find it amusing when people bang on about the party being too radical but cannot provide 1 simple example to back up this claim.
Well off the top of my head for one wasnt one policy of labour to forcefully buy back empty property in London? That is literally forced wealth distribution.
The Broadband one, I'm not sure how that was supposed to work? Was the government going to lay all it's own fibre optic network? I very much doubt that.
They cosied up to BLM pretty quickly. BLM ARE a Marxist organisation, no matter how much you try and cry otherwise they are. They deleted that info off their website pretty quickly when people pointed it out. Its Archived if you wanted to look. Said stuff like abolishment of the police and Capitalism
But again you are not listening to what people are saying. It doesnt matter about your policies when nobody likes the people making them.
I don't know about the london one so I'll read up on that..but I'm sure having empty properties when there is a housing crises is a splendid idea.
Cosying up to the blm was not a policy and clearly something you have just invented ,unless you want to point me in the direction of a labour policy calling for the police to be funded?
The broadband policy was designed to level up the country.
Internet has and will become more and more important in our lives but obviously an inclusive policy which will benefit everyone in the long run is a bad move.
There was an it specialist on radio 4 a while ago who said it made perfect sense and would create jobs in the long run.
Presumably it would have have come in useful in the last year.
Personally I wouldnt call a policy which improves the lives of everyone on the country as radical but you obviously beg to differ.
And you also seem to be saying you dont like labour because you dont like some of the people in the party.
So be my guest and vote Tory.. great bunch of lads.
I didnt vote for the Tories either. Sorry to burst your bubble.
I also didnt vote for Brexit. I know your mind is blown
I couldn't really care less to tell you the truth.
Your argument that you wont vote for labour because you dont like the radical group momentum,who's influence has not actually translated into actual policy, has won me over.
You cant really argue with logic like that.
Re read my argument. I said Momentum is a part of it.
Overall labour is full of regressive identity politics cunts. If you dont understand that you will never understand why the general population other than as I said university students or stupid people that vote for labour just cos daddy voted labour so I should will vote for you.
There is only a certain amount of times people will stand being called racist by certain parts of the labour party(I'm sure we know the usual suspects) or sexist or any other pejorative they like to use before you get told to fuck off.
listen to that or not up to you.
The fact that you call people who vote labour stupid and then complain about being labelled pejorative terms,quite frankly, says it all."
Again I think your reading comprehension has failed you. I'll give you the fact I should of used a comma after "should"
I said if you voted Labour just because daddy voted labour you are stupid...
I can tell your trying really hard to get a win against me for a change, so hard you just made another strawman argument. |
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"Both extreme right and left wing are bad, labour didn't get voted in because they went to far left, the tories didn't go as far right.
The majority sit around the centre slightly left or right, despite what people think we are really a 2 party country so the one that plays the middle ground the best gets in.
Yes people are selfish but that is the same on the left as the right, having worked in China I saw selfishness just the same as here.
Saying all of that we are still one of the most open and tolerant countries in the world
Can you give me just 1 example of labour going "too far left?
If you dont think this current lot are far right...well politeness stops me going any further.
An MP liking and retweeting a tweet that said "r*pe victims must shut up for the sake of diversity". I personally would never vote for that party until she is kicked out.
Sorry was that an official policy or are we now just picking out individual things an mp said?
I personally wouldnt vote for someone who made comments about muslim women looking like letter boxes but millions did.
A party that suspends people like Trevor Philips for just talking about grooming gangs to not take any action on a person who posted such a vile tweet - it is their official stance.
If you think that comment about muslim women's costume is same as that comment on r*pe victims, you have got some serious problems. Don't let your political inclinations blind you.
Can you explain to me how saying something like that is 'too left wing'
And how does it tie into the labour manifesto?
Lionel and myself are waiting.
Tbf I think the argument that the entire labour party are too left wing because 1 person retweeted something incredibly stupid a few years ago,to he completely convincing.
It's not about that tweet. It's about how the party reacted to it. They have suspended others in the party for saying stuff that sounded remotely racist. But such a horrible statement going unpunished tells a lot about their party.
I asked what policies were too left wing.
You have quoted the tweet and are now saying it's nothing to do with the tweet.
So I'll try again
. What specific policies were'too left wing?
It doesnt matter what your policies are when the party is full of cretins that embrace identity politics. The party infested with left wing radicals in the form of Momentum. These are not your normal unionist left. Labour has alienated those people as said by a poster above. It's now the party for anyone who went to uni, has a social science degree and goes ti Glastonbury. Not Terry down the steelworks.
Take my dad for example, ex printer and trade union member and was at the Poll tax riots, wouldnt touch Labour with a barge pole now
You have been told this multiple times, on multiple threads, by multiple people. Maybe you should start listening to what we are saying instead of deflecting.
To clarify
You are saying the party is too left wing
And asking for 1 specific policy which is too left wing is deflecting?
I always find it amusing when people bang on about the party being too radical but cannot provide 1 simple example to back up this claim.
Well off the top of my head for one wasnt one policy of labour to forcefully buy back empty property in London? That is literally forced wealth distribution.
The Broadband one, I'm not sure how that was supposed to work? Was the government going to lay all it's own fibre optic network? I very much doubt that.
They cosied up to BLM pretty quickly. BLM ARE a Marxist organisation, no matter how much you try and cry otherwise they are. They deleted that info off their website pretty quickly when people pointed it out. Its Archived if you wanted to look. Said stuff like abolishment of the police and Capitalism
But again you are not listening to what people are saying. It doesnt matter about your policies when nobody likes the people making them.
I don't know about the london one so I'll read up on that..but I'm sure having empty properties when there is a housing crises is a splendid idea.
Cosying up to the blm was not a policy and clearly something you have just invented ,unless you want to point me in the direction of a labour policy calling for the police to be funded?
The broadband policy was designed to level up the country.
Internet has and will become more and more important in our lives but obviously an inclusive policy which will benefit everyone in the long run is a bad move.
There was an it specialist on radio 4 a while ago who said it made perfect sense and would create jobs in the long run.
Presumably it would have have come in useful in the last year.
Personally I wouldnt call a policy which improves the lives of everyone on the country as radical but you obviously beg to differ.
And you also seem to be saying you dont like labour because you dont like some of the people in the party.
So be my guest and vote Tory.. great bunch of lads.
I didnt vote for the Tories either. Sorry to burst your bubble.
I also didnt vote for Brexit. I know your mind is blown
I couldn't really care less to tell you the truth.
Your argument that you wont vote for labour because you dont like the radical group momentum,who's influence has not actually translated into actual policy, has won me over.
You cant really argue with logic like that.
Re read my argument. I said Momentum is a part of it.
Overall labour is full of regressive identity politics cunts. If you dont understand that you will never understand why the general population other than as I said university students or stupid people that vote for labour just cos daddy voted labour so I should will vote for you.
There is only a certain amount of times people will stand being called racist by certain parts of the labour party(I'm sure we know the usual suspects) or sexist or any other pejorative they like to use before you get told to fuck off.
listen to that or not up to you.
The fact that you call people who vote labour stupid and then complain about being labelled pejorative terms,quite frankly, says it all.
Again I think your reading comprehension has failed you. I'll give you the fact I should of used a comma after "should"
I said if you voted Labour just because daddy voted labour you are stupid...
I can tell your trying really hard to get a win against me for a change, so hard you just made another strawman argument. "
Stupid people that vote for labour.
I don't have to try too hard tbh
|
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Both extreme right and left wing are bad, labour didn't get voted in because they went to far left, the tories didn't go as far right.
The majority sit around the centre slightly left or right, despite what people think we are really a 2 party country so the one that plays the middle ground the best gets in.
Yes people are selfish but that is the same on the left as the right, having worked in China I saw selfishness just the same as here.
Saying all of that we are still one of the most open and tolerant countries in the world
Can you give me just 1 example of labour going "too far left?
If you dont think this current lot are far right...well politeness stops me going any further.
An MP liking and retweeting a tweet that said "r*pe victims must shut up for the sake of diversity". I personally would never vote for that party until she is kicked out.
Sorry was that an official policy or are we now just picking out individual things an mp said?
I personally wouldnt vote for someone who made comments about muslim women looking like letter boxes but millions did.
A party that suspends people like Trevor Philips for just talking about grooming gangs to not take any action on a person who posted such a vile tweet - it is their official stance.
If you think that comment about muslim women's costume is same as that comment on r*pe victims, you have got some serious problems. Don't let your political inclinations blind you.
Can you explain to me how saying something like that is 'too left wing'
And how does it tie into the labour manifesto?
Lionel and myself are waiting.
Tbf I think the argument that the entire labour party are too left wing because 1 person retweeted something incredibly stupid a few years ago,to he completely convincing.
It's not about that tweet. It's about how the party reacted to it. They have suspended others in the party for saying stuff that sounded remotely racist. But such a horrible statement going unpunished tells a lot about their party.
I asked what policies were too left wing.
You have quoted the tweet and are now saying it's nothing to do with the tweet.
So I'll try again
. What specific policies were'too left wing?
It doesnt matter what your policies are when the party is full of cretins that embrace identity politics. The party infested with left wing radicals in the form of Momentum. These are not your normal unionist left. Labour has alienated those people as said by a poster above. It's now the party for anyone who went to uni, has a social science degree and goes ti Glastonbury. Not Terry down the steelworks.
Take my dad for example, ex printer and trade union member and was at the Poll tax riots, wouldnt touch Labour with a barge pole now
You have been told this multiple times, on multiple threads, by multiple people. Maybe you should start listening to what we are saying instead of deflecting.
To clarify
You are saying the party is too left wing
And asking for 1 specific policy which is too left wing is deflecting?
I always find it amusing when people bang on about the party being too radical but cannot provide 1 simple example to back up this claim.
Well off the top of my head for one wasnt one policy of labour to forcefully buy back empty property in London? That is literally forced wealth distribution.
The Broadband one, I'm not sure how that was supposed to work? Was the government going to lay all it's own fibre optic network? I very much doubt that.
They cosied up to BLM pretty quickly. BLM ARE a Marxist organisation, no matter how much you try and cry otherwise they are. They deleted that info off their website pretty quickly when people pointed it out. Its Archived if you wanted to look. Said stuff like abolishment of the police and Capitalism
But again you are not listening to what people are saying. It doesnt matter about your policies when nobody likes the people making them.
I don't know about the london one so I'll read up on that..but I'm sure having empty properties when there is a housing crises is a splendid idea.
Cosying up to the blm was not a policy and clearly something you have just invented ,unless you want to point me in the direction of a labour policy calling for the police to be funded?
The broadband policy was designed to level up the country.
Internet has and will become more and more important in our lives but obviously an inclusive policy which will benefit everyone in the long run is a bad move.
There was an it specialist on radio 4 a while ago who said it made perfect sense and would create jobs in the long run.
Presumably it would have have come in useful in the last year.
Personally I wouldnt call a policy which improves the lives of everyone on the country as radical but you obviously beg to differ.
And you also seem to be saying you dont like labour because you dont like some of the people in the party.
So be my guest and vote Tory.. great bunch of lads.
I didnt vote for the Tories either. Sorry to burst your bubble.
I also didnt vote for Brexit. I know your mind is blown
I couldn't really care less to tell you the truth.
Your argument that you wont vote for labour because you dont like the radical group momentum,who's influence has not actually translated into actual policy, has won me over.
You cant really argue with logic like that.
Re read my argument. I said Momentum is a part of it.
Overall labour is full of regressive identity politics cunts. If you dont understand that you will never understand why the general population other than as I said university students or stupid people that vote for labour just cos daddy voted labour so I should will vote for you.
There is only a certain amount of times people will stand being called racist by certain parts of the labour party(I'm sure we know the usual suspects) or sexist or any other pejorative they like to use before you get told to fuck off.
listen to that or not up to you.
The fact that you call people who vote labour stupid and then complain about being labelled pejorative terms,quite frankly, says it all.
Again I think your reading comprehension has failed you. I'll give you the fact I should of used a comma after "should"
I said if you voted Labour just because daddy voted labour you are stupid...
I can tell your trying really hard to get a win against me for a change, so hard you just made another strawman argument. "
Typically he will try to isolate certain words rather than the whole sentence so that it can suit his narrative.
This is typical of what people hate about Labour supporters but yet they still fail to see it |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Once again, totally surprising how quickly a debate turns personal when things dont got their way."
Which part of my comment was 'personal'?
The only thing I've said that could possibly be 'personal' is true. You can see it for yourself in black and white.
Stop playing the victim. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Both extreme right and left wing are bad, labour didn't get voted in because they went to far left, the tories didn't go as far right.
The majority sit around the centre slightly left or right, despite what people think we are really a 2 party country so the one that plays the middle ground the best gets in.
Yes people are selfish but that is the same on the left as the right, having worked in China I saw selfishness just the same as here.
Saying all of that we are still one of the most open and tolerant countries in the world
Can you give me just 1 example of labour going "too far left?
If you dont think this current lot are far right...well politeness stops me going any further.
An MP liking and retweeting a tweet that said "r*pe victims must shut up for the sake of diversity". I personally would never vote for that party until she is kicked out.
Sorry was that an official policy or are we now just picking out individual things an mp said?
I personally wouldnt vote for someone who made comments about muslim women looking like letter boxes but millions did.
A party that suspends people like Trevor Philips for just talking about grooming gangs to not take any action on a person who posted such a vile tweet - it is their official stance.
If you think that comment about muslim women's costume is same as that comment on r*pe victims, you have got some serious problems. Don't let your political inclinations blind you.
Can you explain to me how saying something like that is 'too left wing'
And how does it tie into the labour manifesto?
Lionel and myself are waiting.
Tbf I think the argument that the entire labour party are too left wing because 1 person retweeted something incredibly stupid a few years ago,to he completely convincing.
It's not about that tweet. It's about how the party reacted to it. They have suspended others in the party for saying stuff that sounded remotely racist. But such a horrible statement going unpunished tells a lot about their party.
I asked what policies were too left wing.
You have quoted the tweet and are now saying it's nothing to do with the tweet.
So I'll try again
. What specific policies were'too left wing?
It doesnt matter what your policies are when the party is full of cretins that embrace identity politics. The party infested with left wing radicals in the form of Momentum. These are not your normal unionist left. Labour has alienated those people as said by a poster above. It's now the party for anyone who went to uni, has a social science degree and goes ti Glastonbury. Not Terry down the steelworks.
Take my dad for example, ex printer and trade union member and was at the Poll tax riots, wouldnt touch Labour with a barge pole now
You have been told this multiple times, on multiple threads, by multiple people. Maybe you should start listening to what we are saying instead of deflecting.
To clarify
You are saying the party is too left wing
And asking for 1 specific policy which is too left wing is deflecting?
I always find it amusing when people bang on about the party being too radical but cannot provide 1 simple example to back up this claim.
Well off the top of my head for one wasnt one policy of labour to forcefully buy back empty property in London? That is literally forced wealth distribution.
The Broadband one, I'm not sure how that was supposed to work? Was the government going to lay all it's own fibre optic network? I very much doubt that.
They cosied up to BLM pretty quickly. BLM ARE a Marxist organisation, no matter how much you try and cry otherwise they are. They deleted that info off their website pretty quickly when people pointed it out. Its Archived if you wanted to look. Said stuff like abolishment of the police and Capitalism
But again you are not listening to what people are saying. It doesnt matter about your policies when nobody likes the people making them.
I don't know about the london one so I'll read up on that..but I'm sure having empty properties when there is a housing crises is a splendid idea.
Cosying up to the blm was not a policy and clearly something you have just invented ,unless you want to point me in the direction of a labour policy calling for the police to be funded?
The broadband policy was designed to level up the country.
Internet has and will become more and more important in our lives but obviously an inclusive policy which will benefit everyone in the long run is a bad move.
There was an it specialist on radio 4 a while ago who said it made perfect sense and would create jobs in the long run.
Presumably it would have have come in useful in the last year.
Personally I wouldnt call a policy which improves the lives of everyone on the country as radical but you obviously beg to differ.
And you also seem to be saying you dont like labour because you dont like some of the people in the party.
So be my guest and vote Tory.. great bunch of lads.
I didnt vote for the Tories either. Sorry to burst your bubble.
I also didnt vote for Brexit. I know your mind is blown
I couldn't really care less to tell you the truth.
Your argument that you wont vote for labour because you dont like the radical group momentum,who's influence has not actually translated into actual policy, has won me over.
You cant really argue with logic like that.
Re read my argument. I said Momentum is a part of it.
Overall labour is full of regressive identity politics cunts. If you dont understand that you will never understand why the general population other than as I said university students or stupid people that vote for labour just cos daddy voted labour so I should will vote for you.
There is only a certain amount of times people will stand being called racist by certain parts of the labour party(I'm sure we know the usual suspects) or sexist or any other pejorative they like to use before you get told to fuck off.
listen to that or not up to you.
The fact that you call people who vote labour stupid and then complain about being labelled pejorative terms,quite frankly, says it all.
Again I think your reading comprehension has failed you. I'll give you the fact I should of used a comma after "should"
I said if you voted Labour just because daddy voted labour you are stupid...
I can tell your trying really hard to get a win against me for a change, so hard you just made another strawman argument.
Stupid people that vote for labour.
I don't have to try too hard tbh
"
That wasnt my statement  . You cant just pick a part of it, put a full stop after a word where I never had one and claim that's what I said... |
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"Tories with their corruption, lies & greed popular, after all they were voted in.
RNLI attacked by yobs, egged on by the arsehole farrage,
Less police, erosion of workers rights, police, legal aid, labour party in decline, nhs privatisation, big pharma ripping off the nhs, fucking stupid needless wars (and before you have a go at me, ive been involved in wars as a medic, trying to stop people dying, doing what i could for the dead and also a nurse in the NHS)
Thank god for Russia stopping the americans from fully invading Syria!
Care home crisis getting worse, billionaire companies not paying taxes,
Endless popularity shown to a shit tory cabinet by the masses
Is it all an indication that we are an intolerant selfish greedy country now?
"
Nope. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Overall labour Is full of regressive policy cunts
Be interesting to hear what context this was took out of
"
Maybe you should try a bit harder then.
As for the second time you have completely misquoted what I said. |
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"Overall labour Is full of regressive policy cunts
Be interesting to hear what context this was took out of
Maybe you should try a bit harder then.
As for the second time you have completely misquoted what I said."
No I haven't
I have typed what exactly you have said |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Overall labour Is full of regressive policy cunts
Be interesting to hear what context this was took out of
Maybe you should try a bit harder then.
As for the second time you have completely misquoted what I said.
No I haven't
I have typed what exactly you have said"
Policy isnt the same word as Politics.
Changing words to suit your argument isnt a good look |
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if the left wingers would pay more tax the right wingers could all go private! lol
the public get what they want, yes i agree we should stop climate change but im still flying to spain etc etc
say one thing and do another..... bit like on here lol |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Both extreme right and left wing are bad, labour didn't get voted in because they went to far left, the tories didn't go as far right.
The majority sit around the centre slightly left or right, despite what people think we are really a 2 party country so the one that plays the middle ground the best gets in.
Yes people are selfish but that is the same on the left as the right, having worked in China I saw selfishness just the same as here.
Saying all of that we are still one of the most open and tolerant countries in the world
Can you give me just 1 example of labour going "too far left?
If you dont think this current lot are far right...well politeness stops me going any further.
An MP liking and retweeting a tweet that said "r*pe victims must shut up for the sake of diversity". I personally would never vote for that party until she is kicked out.
Sorry was that an official policy or are we now just picking out individual things an mp said?
I personally wouldnt vote for someone who made comments about muslim women looking like letter boxes but millions did.
A party that suspends people like Trevor Philips for just talking about grooming gangs to not take any action on a person who posted such a vile tweet - it is their official stance.
If you think that comment about muslim women's costume is same as that comment on r*pe victims, you have got some serious problems. Don't let your political inclinations blind you.
Can you explain to me how saying something like that is 'too left wing'
And how does it tie into the labour manifesto?
Lionel and myself are waiting.
Tbf I think the argument that the entire labour party are too left wing because 1 person retweeted something incredibly stupid a few years ago,to he completely convincing.
It's not about that tweet. It's about how the party reacted to it. They have suspended others in the party for saying stuff that sounded remotely racist. But such a horrible statement going unpunished tells a lot about their party.
I asked what policies were too left wing.
You have quoted the tweet and are now saying it's nothing to do with the tweet.
So I'll try again
. What specific policies were'too left wing?"
Look at your first question again. You did not ask about policies. A party's policies won't take them far if their behaviour is so disgusting. |
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"Both extreme right and left wing are bad, labour didn't get voted in because they went to far left, the tories didn't go as far right.
The majority sit around the centre slightly left or right, despite what people think we are really a 2 party country so the one that plays the middle ground the best gets in.
Yes people are selfish but that is the same on the left as the right, having worked in China I saw selfishness just the same as here.
Saying all of that we are still one of the most open and tolerant countries in the world
Can you give me just 1 example of labour going "too far left?
If you dont think this current lot are far right...well politeness stops me going any further.
An MP liking and retweeting a tweet that said "r*pe victims must shut up for the sake of diversity". I personally would never vote for that party until she is kicked out.
Sorry was that an official policy or are we now just picking out individual things an mp said?
I personally wouldnt vote for someone who made comments about muslim women looking like letter boxes but millions did.
A party that suspends people like Trevor Philips for just talking about grooming gangs to not take any action on a person who posted such a vile tweet - it is their official stance.
If you think that comment about muslim women's costume is same as that comment on r*pe victims, you have got some serious problems. Don't let your political inclinations blind you.
Can you explain to me how saying something like that is 'too left wing'
And how does it tie into the labour manifesto?
Lionel and myself are waiting.
Tbf I think the argument that the entire labour party are too left wing because 1 person retweeted something incredibly stupid a few years ago,to he completely convincing.
It's not about that tweet. It's about how the party reacted to it. They have suspended others in the party for saying stuff that sounded remotely racist. But such a horrible statement going unpunished tells a lot about their party.
I asked what policies were too left wing.
You have quoted the tweet and are now saying it's nothing to do with the tweet.
So I'll try again
. What specific policies were'too left wing?
Look at your first question again. You did not ask about policies. A party's policies won't take them far if their behaviour is so disgusting."
So once again we have concluded that a party can be labelled as too left wing without any particular policies which quantify as such.
Glad we got that cleared up.
|
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Both extreme right and left wing are bad, labour didn't get voted in because they went to far left, the tories didn't go as far right.
The majority sit around the centre slightly left or right, despite what people think we are really a 2 party country so the one that plays the middle ground the best gets in.
Yes people are selfish but that is the same on the left as the right, having worked in China I saw selfishness just the same as here.
Saying all of that we are still one of the most open and tolerant countries in the world
Can you give me just 1 example of labour going "too far left?
If you dont think this current lot are far right...well politeness stops me going any further.
An MP liking and retweeting a tweet that said "r*pe victims must shut up for the sake of diversity". I personally would never vote for that party until she is kicked out.
Sorry was that an official policy or are we now just picking out individual things an mp said?
I personally wouldnt vote for someone who made comments about muslim women looking like letter boxes but millions did.
A party that suspends people like Trevor Philips for just talking about grooming gangs to not take any action on a person who posted such a vile tweet - it is their official stance.
If you think that comment about muslim women's costume is same as that comment on r*pe victims, you have got some serious problems. Don't let your political inclinations blind you.
Can you explain to me how saying something like that is 'too left wing'
And how does it tie into the labour manifesto?
Lionel and myself are waiting.
Tbf I think the argument that the entire labour party are too left wing because 1 person retweeted something incredibly stupid a few years ago,to he completely convincing.
It's not about that tweet. It's about how the party reacted to it. They have suspended others in the party for saying stuff that sounded remotely racist. But such a horrible statement going unpunished tells a lot about their party.
I asked what policies were too left wing.
You have quoted the tweet and are now saying it's nothing to do with the tweet.
So I'll try again
. What specific policies were'too left wing?
Look at your first question again. You did not ask about policies. A party's policies won't take them far if their behaviour is so disgusting.
So once again we have concluded that a party can be labelled as too left wing without any particular policies which quantify as such.
Glad we got that cleared up.
"
How many times do you need to be told.
Policies are a tiny part of why people vote in certain ways.
Let's face it, Labour got popular again because of Corbyn and Momentum.
But, Corbyn and Momentum are also the reasons they self imploded.
If you won't listen to what people who 3ould be traditional Labour supporters are telling you, you'll never understand it. |
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To the OP . . .
No. I have known many a Left wing selfish person as I have Mid and Right.
Maybe you need to reframe your question because I actually think that you are just saying Tories.
As Tories don't make up the total of 'this country' then the answer can only be 'no'.
|
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"Both extreme right and left wing are bad, labour didn't get voted in because they went to far left, the tories didn't go as far right.
The majority sit around the centre slightly left or right, despite what people think we are really a 2 party country so the one that plays the middle ground the best gets in.
Yes people are selfish but that is the same on the left as the right, having worked in China I saw selfishness just the same as here.
Saying all of that we are still one of the most open and tolerant countries in the world
Can you give me just 1 example of labour going "too far left?
If you dont think this current lot are far right...well politeness stops me going any further.
An MP liking and retweeting a tweet that said "r*pe victims must shut up for the sake of diversity". I personally would never vote for that party until she is kicked out.
Sorry was that an official policy or are we now just picking out individual things an mp said?
I personally wouldnt vote for someone who made comments about muslim women looking like letter boxes but millions did.
A party that suspends people like Trevor Philips for just talking about grooming gangs to not take any action on a person who posted such a vile tweet - it is their official stance.
If you think that comment about muslim women's costume is same as that comment on r*pe victims, you have got some serious problems. Don't let your political inclinations blind you.
Can you explain to me how saying something like that is 'too left wing'
And how does it tie into the labour manifesto?
Lionel and myself are waiting.
Tbf I think the argument that the entire labour party are too left wing because 1 person retweeted something incredibly stupid a few years ago,to he completely convincing.
It's not about that tweet. It's about how the party reacted to it. They have suspended others in the party for saying stuff that sounded remotely racist. But such a horrible statement going unpunished tells a lot about their party.
I asked what policies were too left wing.
You have quoted the tweet and are now saying it's nothing to do with the tweet.
So I'll try again
. What specific policies were'too left wing?
Look at your first question again. You did not ask about policies. A party's policies won't take them far if their behaviour is so disgusting."
Incidentally just regarding the tweet
You failed to mention that she has since apologised for the tweet, took to down and has since won damages in court for being called an apologist for grooming gangs
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/politics/it-threatens-my-life-bradford-mp-naz-shah-wins-apology-and-payout-after-campaign-group-branded-her-grooming-gangs-apologist-2988819%3famp
Interestingly she also had a bounty on her head for criticising honour killings ,which you chose not to mention for some reason.
|
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Both extreme right and left wing are bad, labour didn't get voted in because they went to far left, the tories didn't go as far right.
The majority sit around the centre slightly left or right, despite what people think we are really a 2 party country so the one that plays the middle ground the best gets in.
Yes people are selfish but that is the same on the left as the right, having worked in China I saw selfishness just the same as here.
Saying all of that we are still one of the most open and tolerant countries in the world
Can you give me just 1 example of labour going "too far left?
If you dont think this current lot are far right...well politeness stops me going any further.
An MP liking and retweeting a tweet that said "r*pe victims must shut up for the sake of diversity". I personally would never vote for that party until she is kicked out.
Sorry was that an official policy or are we now just picking out individual things an mp said?
I personally wouldnt vote for someone who made comments about muslim women looking like letter boxes but millions did.
A party that suspends people like Trevor Philips for just talking about grooming gangs to not take any action on a person who posted such a vile tweet - it is their official stance.
If you think that comment about muslim women's costume is same as that comment on r*pe victims, you have got some serious problems. Don't let your political inclinations blind you.
Can you explain to me how saying something like that is 'too left wing'
And how does it tie into the labour manifesto?
Lionel and myself are waiting.
Tbf I think the argument that the entire labour party are too left wing because 1 person retweeted something incredibly stupid a few years ago,to he completely convincing.
It's not about that tweet. It's about how the party reacted to it. They have suspended others in the party for saying stuff that sounded remotely racist. But such a horrible statement going unpunished tells a lot about their party.
I asked what policies were too left wing.
You have quoted the tweet and are now saying it's nothing to do with the tweet.
So I'll try again
. What specific policies were'too left wing?
Look at your first question again. You did not ask about policies. A party's policies won't take them far if their behaviour is so disgusting.
So once again we have concluded that a party can be labelled as too left wing without any particular policies which quantify as such.
Glad we got that cleared up.
"
100% Behaviour of elected members of parties and the party's response is a legit way to identify a party' leanings. |
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"Both extreme right and left wing are bad, labour didn't get voted in because they went to far left, the tories didn't go as far right.
The majority sit around the centre slightly left or right, despite what people think we are really a 2 party country so the one that plays the middle ground the best gets in.
Yes people are selfish but that is the same on the left as the right, having worked in China I saw selfishness just the same as here.
Saying all of that we are still one of the most open and tolerant countries in the world
Can you give me just 1 example of labour going "too far left?
If you dont think this current lot are far right...well politeness stops me going any further.
An MP liking and retweeting a tweet that said "r*pe victims must shut up for the sake of diversity". I personally would never vote for that party until she is kicked out.
Sorry was that an official policy or are we now just picking out individual things an mp said?
I personally wouldnt vote for someone who made comments about muslim women looking like letter boxes but millions did.
A party that suspends people like Trevor Philips for just talking about grooming gangs to not take any action on a person who posted such a vile tweet - it is their official stance.
If you think that comment about muslim women's costume is same as that comment on r*pe victims, you have got some serious problems. Don't let your political inclinations blind you.
Can you explain to me how saying something like that is 'too left wing'
And how does it tie into the labour manifesto?
Lionel and myself are waiting.
Tbf I think the argument that the entire labour party are too left wing because 1 person retweeted something incredibly stupid a few years ago,to he completely convincing.
It's not about that tweet. It's about how the party reacted to it. They have suspended others in the party for saying stuff that sounded remotely racist. But such a horrible statement going unpunished tells a lot about their party.
I asked what policies were too left wing.
You have quoted the tweet and are now saying it's nothing to do with the tweet.
So I'll try again
. What specific policies were'too left wing?
Look at your first question again. You did not ask about policies. A party's policies won't take them far if their behaviour is so disgusting.
So once again we have concluded that a party can be labelled as too left wing without any particular policies which quantify as such.
Glad we got that cleared up.
100% Behaviour of elected members of parties and the party's response is a legit way to identify a party' leanings."
So presuming you will never vote Tory then?
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/politics/2017/feb/09/alan-pearmain-conservative-official-suspended-over-racist-tweet-aimed-at-diane-abbott
And just to clarify.. you think the labour mp in question has no sympathy for r@@@ victims? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Both extreme right and left wing are bad, labour didn't get voted in because they went to far left, the tories didn't go as far right.
The majority sit around the centre slightly left or right, despite what people think we are really a 2 party country so the one that plays the middle ground the best gets in.
Yes people are selfish but that is the same on the left as the right, having worked in China I saw selfishness just the same as here.
Saying all of that we are still one of the most open and tolerant countries in the world
Can you give me just 1 example of labour going "too far left?
If you dont think this current lot are far right...well politeness stops me going any further.
An MP liking and retweeting a tweet that said "r*pe victims must shut up for the sake of diversity". I personally would never vote for that party until she is kicked out.
Sorry was that an official policy or are we now just picking out individual things an mp said?
I personally wouldnt vote for someone who made comments about muslim women looking like letter boxes but millions did.
A party that suspends people like Trevor Philips for just talking about grooming gangs to not take any action on a person who posted such a vile tweet - it is their official stance.
If you think that comment about muslim women's costume is same as that comment on r*pe victims, you have got some serious problems. Don't let your political inclinations blind you.
Can you explain to me how saying something like that is 'too left wing'
And how does it tie into the labour manifesto?
Lionel and myself are waiting.
Tbf I think the argument that the entire labour party are too left wing because 1 person retweeted something incredibly stupid a few years ago,to he completely convincing.
It's not about that tweet. It's about how the party reacted to it. They have suspended others in the party for saying stuff that sounded remotely racist. But such a horrible statement going unpunished tells a lot about their party.
I asked what policies were too left wing.
You have quoted the tweet and are now saying it's nothing to do with the tweet.
So I'll try again
. What specific policies were'too left wing?
Look at your first question again. You did not ask about policies. A party's policies won't take them far if their behaviour is so disgusting.
Incidentally just regarding the tweet
You failed to mention that she has since apologised for the tweet, took to down and has since won damages in court for being called an apologist for grooming gangs
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/politics/it-threatens-my-life-bradford-mp-naz-shah-wins-apology-and-payout-after-campaign-group-branded-her-grooming-gangs-apologist-2988819%3famp
Interestingly she also had a bounty on her head for criticising honour killings ,which you chose not to mention for some reason.
"
Sarah Champion also apologised. Didn't stop Labour from taking action on that.
And Naz Shah did not apologise for it. She came up with an excuse that she did it by mistake. Very believable.
The fact that leave.eu paid damages to her has nothing to do with the argument. They said she is a grooming gang apologists which is not a logical conclusion you can reach by her tweet. Leave.eu was wrong and paid for it. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
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"Both extreme right and left wing are bad, labour didn't get voted in because they went to far left, the tories didn't go as far right.
The majority sit around the centre slightly left or right, despite what people think we are really a 2 party country so the one that plays the middle ground the best gets in.
Yes people are selfish but that is the same on the left as the right, having worked in China I saw selfishness just the same as here.
Saying all of that we are still one of the most open and tolerant countries in the world
Can you give me just 1 example of labour going "too far left?
If you dont think this current lot are far right...well politeness stops me going any further.
An MP liking and retweeting a tweet that said "r*pe victims must shut up for the sake of diversity". I personally would never vote for that party until she is kicked out.
Sorry was that an official policy or are we now just picking out individual things an mp said?
I personally wouldnt vote for someone who made comments about muslim women looking like letter boxes but millions did.
A party that suspends people like Trevor Philips for just talking about grooming gangs to not take any action on a person who posted such a vile tweet - it is their official stance.
If you think that comment about muslim women's costume is same as that comment on r*pe victims, you have got some serious problems. Don't let your political inclinations blind you.
Can you explain to me how saying something like that is 'too left wing'
And how does it tie into the labour manifesto?
Lionel and myself are waiting.
Tbf I think the argument that the entire labour party are too left wing because 1 person retweeted something incredibly stupid a few years ago,to he completely convincing.
It's not about that tweet. It's about how the party reacted to it. They have suspended others in the party for saying stuff that sounded remotely racist. But such a horrible statement going unpunished tells a lot about their party.
I asked what policies were too left wing.
You have quoted the tweet and are now saying it's nothing to do with the tweet.
So I'll try again
. What specific policies were'too left wing?
Look at your first question again. You did not ask about policies. A party's policies won't take them far if their behaviour is so disgusting.
Incidentally just regarding the tweet
You failed to mention that she has since apologised for the tweet, took to down and has since won damages in court for being called an apologist for grooming gangs
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/politics/it-threatens-my-life-bradford-mp-naz-shah-wins-apology-and-payout-after-campaign-group-branded-her-grooming-gangs-apologist-2988819%3famp
Interestingly she also had a bounty on her head for criticising honour killings ,which you chose not to mention for some reason.
Sarah Champion also apologised. Didn't stop Labour from taking action on that.
And Naz Shah did not apologise for it. She came up with an excuse that she did it by mistake. Very believable.
The fact that leave.eu paid damages to her has nothing to do with the argument. They said she is a grooming gang apologists which is not a logical conclusion you can reach by her tweet. Leave.eu was wrong and paid for it."
So in your opinion.
She has mo sympathy for r@@e victims? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Both extreme right and left wing are bad, labour didn't get voted in because they went to far left, the tories didn't go as far right.
The majority sit around the centre slightly left or right, despite what people think we are really a 2 party country so the one that plays the middle ground the best gets in.
Yes people are selfish but that is the same on the left as the right, having worked in China I saw selfishness just the same as here.
Saying all of that we are still one of the most open and tolerant countries in the world
Can you give me just 1 example of labour going "too far left?
If you dont think this current lot are far right...well politeness stops me going any further.
An MP liking and retweeting a tweet that said "r*pe victims must shut up for the sake of diversity". I personally would never vote for that party until she is kicked out.
Sorry was that an official policy or are we now just picking out individual things an mp said?
I personally wouldnt vote for someone who made comments about muslim women looking like letter boxes but millions did.
A party that suspends people like Trevor Philips for just talking about grooming gangs to not take any action on a person who posted such a vile tweet - it is their official stance.
If you think that comment about muslim women's costume is same as that comment on r*pe victims, you have got some serious problems. Don't let your political inclinations blind you.
Can you explain to me how saying something like that is 'too left wing'
And how does it tie into the labour manifesto?
Lionel and myself are waiting.
Tbf I think the argument that the entire labour party are too left wing because 1 person retweeted something incredibly stupid a few years ago,to he completely convincing.
It's not about that tweet. It's about how the party reacted to it. They have suspended others in the party for saying stuff that sounded remotely racist. But such a horrible statement going unpunished tells a lot about their party.
I asked what policies were too left wing.
You have quoted the tweet and are now saying it's nothing to do with the tweet.
So I'll try again
. What specific policies were'too left wing?
Look at your first question again. You did not ask about policies. A party's policies won't take them far if their behaviour is so disgusting.
So once again we have concluded that a party can be labelled as too left wing without any particular policies which quantify as such.
Glad we got that cleared up.
100% Behaviour of elected members of parties and the party's response is a legit way to identify a party' leanings.
So presuming you will never vote Tory then?
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/politics/2017/feb/09/alan-pearmain-conservative-official-suspended-over-racist-tweet-aimed-at-diane-abbott
And just to clarify.. you think the labour mp in question has no sympathy for r@@@ victims?"
Oh my god. You have a serious issue. Stop seeing everyone as Tory/Labour. I didn't even vote in the previous elections as it was only a few months after I moved here and I don't make up my mind about who I vote for until the week of elections. Not everyone is stupid enough to pledge their lives to a single party.
And I am repeating something to you for the fourth time probably. It's not the tweet itself that's a problem. It is how the party reacts to it. Labour did not even give a warning while the Tory person was suspended. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Both extreme right and left wing are bad, labour didn't get voted in because they went to far left, the tories didn't go as far right.
The majority sit around the centre slightly left or right, despite what people think we are really a 2 party country so the one that plays the middle ground the best gets in.
Yes people are selfish but that is the same on the left as the right, having worked in China I saw selfishness just the same as here.
Saying all of that we are still one of the most open and tolerant countries in the world
Can you give me just 1 example of labour going "too far left?
If you dont think this current lot are far right...well politeness stops me going any further.
An MP liking and retweeting a tweet that said "r*pe victims must shut up for the sake of diversity". I personally would never vote for that party until she is kicked out.
Sorry was that an official policy or are we now just picking out individual things an mp said?
I personally wouldnt vote for someone who made comments about muslim women looking like letter boxes but millions did.
A party that suspends people like Trevor Philips for just talking about grooming gangs to not take any action on a person who posted such a vile tweet - it is their official stance.
If you think that comment about muslim women's costume is same as that comment on r*pe victims, you have got some serious problems. Don't let your political inclinations blind you.
Can you explain to me how saying something like that is 'too left wing'
And how does it tie into the labour manifesto?
Lionel and myself are waiting.
Tbf I think the argument that the entire labour party are too left wing because 1 person retweeted something incredibly stupid a few years ago,to he completely convincing.
It's not about that tweet. It's about how the party reacted to it. They have suspended others in the party for saying stuff that sounded remotely racist. But such a horrible statement going unpunished tells a lot about their party.
I asked what policies were too left wing.
You have quoted the tweet and are now saying it's nothing to do with the tweet.
So I'll try again
. What specific policies were'too left wing?
Look at your first question again. You did not ask about policies. A party's policies won't take them far if their behaviour is so disgusting.
Incidentally just regarding the tweet
You failed to mention that she has since apologised for the tweet, took to down and has since won damages in court for being called an apologist for grooming gangs
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/politics/it-threatens-my-life-bradford-mp-naz-shah-wins-apology-and-payout-after-campaign-group-branded-her-grooming-gangs-apologist-2988819%3famp
Interestingly she also had a bounty on her head for criticising honour killings ,which you chose not to mention for some reason.
Sarah Champion also apologised. Didn't stop Labour from taking action on that.
And Naz Shah did not apologise for it. She came up with an excuse that she did it by mistake. Very believable.
The fact that leave.eu paid damages to her has nothing to do with the argument. They said she is a grooming gang apologists which is not a logical conclusion you can reach by her tweet. Leave.eu was wrong and paid for it.
So in your opinion.
She has mo sympathy for r@@e victims?"
She has sympathy usually. But given that the guilty in some specific events were from social minorities, her love for Identity politics overtook her sympathy for the victims. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Both extreme right and left wing are bad, labour didn't get voted in because they went to far left, the tories didn't go as far right.
The majority sit around the centre slightly left or right, despite what people think we are really a 2 party country so the one that plays the middle ground the best gets in.
Yes people are selfish but that is the same on the left as the right, having worked in China I saw selfishness just the same as here.
Saying all of that we are still one of the most open and tolerant countries in the world
Can you give me just 1 example of labour going "too far left?
If you dont think this current lot are far right...well politeness stops me going any further.
An MP liking and retweeting a tweet that said "r*pe victims must shut up for the sake of diversity". I personally would never vote for that party until she is kicked out.
Sorry was that an official policy or are we now just picking out individual things an mp said?
I personally wouldnt vote for someone who made comments about muslim women looking like letter boxes but millions did.
A party that suspends people like Trevor Philips for just talking about grooming gangs to not take any action on a person who posted such a vile tweet - it is their official stance.
If you think that comment about muslim women's costume is same as that comment on r*pe victims, you have got some serious problems. Don't let your political inclinations blind you.
Can you explain to me how saying something like that is 'too left wing'
And how does it tie into the labour manifesto?
Lionel and myself are waiting.
Tbf I think the argument that the entire labour party are too left wing because 1 person retweeted something incredibly stupid a few years ago,to he completely convincing.
It's not about that tweet. It's about how the party reacted to it. They have suspended others in the party for saying stuff that sounded remotely racist. But such a horrible statement going unpunished tells a lot about their party.
I asked what policies were too left wing.
You have quoted the tweet and are now saying it's nothing to do with the tweet.
So I'll try again
. What specific policies were'too left wing?
Look at your first question again. You did not ask about policies. A party's policies won't take them far if their behaviour is so disgusting.
So once again we have concluded that a party can be labelled as too left wing without any particular policies which quantify as such.
Glad we got that cleared up.
100% Behaviour of elected members of parties and the party's response is a legit way to identify a party' leanings.
So presuming you will never vote Tory then?
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/politics/2017/feb/09/alan-pearmain-conservative-official-suspended-over-racist-tweet-aimed-at-diane-abbott
And just to clarify.. you think the labour mp in question has no sympathy for r@@@ victims?
Oh my god. You have a serious issue. Stop seeing everyone as Tory/Labour. I didn't even vote in the previous elections as it was only a few months after I moved here and I don't make up my mind about who I vote for until the week of elections. Not everyone is stupid enough to pledge their lives to a single party.
And I am repeating something to you for the fourth time probably. It's not the tweet itself that's a problem. It is how the party reacts to it. Labour did not even give a warning while the Tory person was suspended."
Probably something to do with the fact that the tweet was instantly deleted and she said it was a mistake.
I do find it a bit odd you.are happy with someone sending a racist messege to be suspended but you want some one retweeting someone instantly expelled from the party but whatever.
I'll ask again
Do you think this mp has no sympathy for r#@@ victims? |
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or View forums list | |
"Both extreme right and left wing are bad, labour didn't get voted in because they went to far left, the tories didn't go as far right.
The majority sit around the centre slightly left or right, despite what people think we are really a 2 party country so the one that plays the middle ground the best gets in.
Yes people are selfish but that is the same on the left as the right, having worked in China I saw selfishness just the same as here.
Saying all of that we are still one of the most open and tolerant countries in the world
Can you give me just 1 example of labour going "too far left?
If you dont think this current lot are far right...well politeness stops me going any further.
An MP liking and retweeting a tweet that said "r*pe victims must shut up for the sake of diversity". I personally would never vote for that party until she is kicked out.
Sorry was that an official policy or are we now just picking out individual things an mp said?
I personally wouldnt vote for someone who made comments about muslim women looking like letter boxes but millions did.
A party that suspends people like Trevor Philips for just talking about grooming gangs to not take any action on a person who posted such a vile tweet - it is their official stance.
If you think that comment about muslim women's costume is same as that comment on r*pe victims, you have got some serious problems. Don't let your political inclinations blind you.
Can you explain to me how saying something like that is 'too left wing'
And how does it tie into the labour manifesto?
Lionel and myself are waiting.
Tbf I think the argument that the entire labour party are too left wing because 1 person retweeted something incredibly stupid a few years ago,to he completely convincing.
It's not about that tweet. It's about how the party reacted to it. They have suspended others in the party for saying stuff that sounded remotely racist. But such a horrible statement going unpunished tells a lot about their party.
I asked what policies were too left wing.
You have quoted the tweet and are now saying it's nothing to do with the tweet.
So I'll try again
. What specific policies were'too left wing?
Look at your first question again. You did not ask about policies. A party's policies won't take them far if their behaviour is so disgusting.
Incidentally just regarding the tweet
You failed to mention that she has since apologised for the tweet, took to down and has since won damages in court for being called an apologist for grooming gangs
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/politics/it-threatens-my-life-bradford-mp-naz-shah-wins-apology-and-payout-after-campaign-group-branded-her-grooming-gangs-apologist-2988819%3famp
Interestingly she also had a bounty on her head for criticising honour killings ,which you chose not to mention for some reason.
Sarah Champion also apologised. Didn't stop Labour from taking action on that.
And Naz Shah did not apologise for it. She came up with an excuse that she did it by mistake. Very believable.
The fact that leave.eu paid damages to her has nothing to do with the argument. They said she is a grooming gang apologists which is not a logical conclusion you can reach by her tweet. Leave.eu was wrong and paid for it.
So in your opinion.
She has mo sympathy for r@@e victims?
She has sympathy usually. But given that the guilty in some specific events were from social minorities, her love for Identity politics overtook her sympathy for the victims."
So she took the side of the guilty because they were non white
How exactly does this tie in with her stance on honour killings? |
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https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/its-time-bring-our-girl-home-bradford-west-mp-naz-shah-governments-shame-over-ayia-napa-gang-rape-case-1744814%3famp
Presumably this girl wasmt white.? |
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holy lionel avalanche!
Im not sure why anyone would think left wing are less selfish than capitalists/right wingers etc
there are those who want and expect something for nothing and those who realise you need to earn it, the money has to come from somewhere.... yes where do you draw the line..... but..
at the minute the country seems to realise pulling together is the way forward.... and know we cant afford non stop freebies... although high heels should be on the nhs for trans, obvs! lol  |
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|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Both extreme right and left wing are bad, labour didn't get voted in because they went to far left, the tories didn't go as far right.
The majority sit around the centre slightly left or right, despite what people think we are really a 2 party country so the one that plays the middle ground the best gets in.
Yes people are selfish but that is the same on the left as the right, having worked in China I saw selfishness just the same as here.
Saying all of that we are still one of the most open and tolerant countries in the world
Can you give me just 1 example of labour going "too far left?
If you dont think this current lot are far right...well politeness stops me going any further.
An MP liking and retweeting a tweet that said "r*pe victims must shut up for the sake of diversity". I personally would never vote for that party until she is kicked out.
Sorry was that an official policy or are we now just picking out individual things an mp said?
I personally wouldnt vote for someone who made comments about muslim women looking like letter boxes but millions did.
A party that suspends people like Trevor Philips for just talking about grooming gangs to not take any action on a person who posted such a vile tweet - it is their official stance.
If you think that comment about muslim women's costume is same as that comment on r*pe victims, you have got some serious problems. Don't let your political inclinations blind you.
Can you explain to me how saying something like that is 'too left wing'
And how does it tie into the labour manifesto?
Lionel and myself are waiting.
Tbf I think the argument that the entire labour party are too left wing because 1 person retweeted something incredibly stupid a few years ago,to he completely convincing.
It's not about that tweet. It's about how the party reacted to it. They have suspended others in the party for saying stuff that sounded remotely racist. But such a horrible statement going unpunished tells a lot about their party.
I asked what policies were too left wing.
You have quoted the tweet and are now saying it's nothing to do with the tweet.
So I'll try again
. What specific policies were'too left wing?
Look at your first question again. You did not ask about policies. A party's policies won't take them far if their behaviour is so disgusting.
So once again we have concluded that a party can be labelled as too left wing without any particular policies which quantify as such.
Glad we got that cleared up.
100% Behaviour of elected members of parties and the party's response is a legit way to identify a party' leanings.
So presuming you will never vote Tory then?
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/politics/2017/feb/09/alan-pearmain-conservative-official-suspended-over-racist-tweet-aimed-at-diane-abbott
And just to clarify.. you think the labour mp in question has no sympathy for r@@@ victims?
Oh my god. You have a serious issue. Stop seeing everyone as Tory/Labour. I didn't even vote in the previous elections as it was only a few months after I moved here and I don't make up my mind about who I vote for until the week of elections. Not everyone is stupid enough to pledge their lives to a single party.
And I am repeating something to you for the fourth time probably. It's not the tweet itself that's a problem. It is how the party reacts to it. Labour did not even give a warning while the Tory person was suspended.
Probably something to do with the fact that the tweet was instantly deleted and she said it was a mistake.
I do find it a bit odd you.are happy with someone sending a racist messege to be suspended but you want some one retweeting someone instantly expelled from the party but whatever.
I'll ask again
Do you think this mp has no sympathy for r#@@ victims?"
I find it odd that you keep imagining stuff I never said. When did I say I wanted her expelled? She deserved to be suspended. |
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or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Both extreme right and left wing are bad, labour didn't get voted in because they went to far left, the tories didn't go as far right.
The majority sit around the centre slightly left or right, despite what people think we are really a 2 party country so the one that plays the middle ground the best gets in.
Yes people are selfish but that is the same on the left as the right, having worked in China I saw selfishness just the same as here.
Saying all of that we are still one of the most open and tolerant countries in the world
Can you give me just 1 example of labour going "too far left?
If you dont think this current lot are far right...well politeness stops me going any further.
An MP liking and retweeting a tweet that said "r*pe victims must shut up for the sake of diversity". I personally would never vote for that party until she is kicked out.
Sorry was that an official policy or are we now just picking out individual things an mp said?
I personally wouldnt vote for someone who made comments about muslim women looking like letter boxes but millions did.
A party that suspends people like Trevor Philips for just talking about grooming gangs to not take any action on a person who posted such a vile tweet - it is their official stance.
If you think that comment about muslim women's costume is same as that comment on r*pe victims, you have got some serious problems. Don't let your political inclinations blind you.
Can you explain to me how saying something like that is 'too left wing'
And how does it tie into the labour manifesto?
Lionel and myself are waiting.
Tbf I think the argument that the entire labour party are too left wing because 1 person retweeted something incredibly stupid a few years ago,to he completely convincing.
It's not about that tweet. It's about how the party reacted to it. They have suspended others in the party for saying stuff that sounded remotely racist. But such a horrible statement going unpunished tells a lot about their party.
I asked what policies were too left wing.
You have quoted the tweet and are now saying it's nothing to do with the tweet.
So I'll try again
. What specific policies were'too left wing?
Look at your first question again. You did not ask about policies. A party's policies won't take them far if their behaviour is so disgusting.
Incidentally just regarding the tweet
You failed to mention that she has since apologised for the tweet, took to down and has since won damages in court for being called an apologist for grooming gangs
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/politics/it-threatens-my-life-bradford-mp-naz-shah-wins-apology-and-payout-after-campaign-group-branded-her-grooming-gangs-apologist-2988819%3famp
Interestingly she also had a bounty on her head for criticising honour killings ,which you chose not to mention for some reason.
Sarah Champion also apologised. Didn't stop Labour from taking action on that.
And Naz Shah did not apologise for it. She came up with an excuse that she did it by mistake. Very believable.
The fact that leave.eu paid damages to her has nothing to do with the argument. They said she is a grooming gang apologists which is not a logical conclusion you can reach by her tweet. Leave.eu was wrong and paid for it.
So in your opinion.
She has mo sympathy for r@@e victims?
She has sympathy usually. But given that the guilty in some specific events were from social minorities, her love for Identity politics overtook her sympathy for the victims.
So she took the side of the guilty because they were non white
How exactly does this tie in with her stance on honour killings?"
In case of honour killings, the victims were non-white too. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Western societies have always been more about the individual than the collective, with the US taking it to the extreme. Sadly we seem to think copying the US is the way to go. |
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"Both extreme right and left wing are bad, labour didn't get voted in because they went to far left, the tories didn't go as far right.
The majority sit around the centre slightly left or right, despite what people think we are really a 2 party country so the one that plays the middle ground the best gets in.
Yes people are selfish but that is the same on the left as the right, having worked in China I saw selfishness just the same as here.
Saying all of that we are still one of the most open and tolerant countries in the world
Can you give me just 1 example of labour going "too far left?
If you dont think this current lot are far right...well politeness stops me going any further.
An MP liking and retweeting a tweet that said "r*pe victims must shut up for the sake of diversity". I personally would never vote for that party until she is kicked out.
Sorry was that an official policy or are we now just picking out individual things an mp said?
I personally wouldnt vote for someone who made comments about muslim women looking like letter boxes but millions did.
A party that suspends people like Trevor Philips for just talking about grooming gangs to not take any action on a person who posted such a vile tweet - it is their official stance.
If you think that comment about muslim women's costume is same as that comment on r*pe victims, you have got some serious problems. Don't let your political inclinations blind you.
Can you explain to me how saying something like that is 'too left wing'
And how does it tie into the labour manifesto?
Lionel and myself are waiting.
Tbf I think the argument that the entire labour party are too left wing because 1 person retweeted something incredibly stupid a few years ago,to he completely convincing.
It's not about that tweet. It's about how the party reacted to it. They have suspended others in the party for saying stuff that sounded remotely racist. But such a horrible statement going unpunished tells a lot about their party.
I asked what policies were too left wing.
You have quoted the tweet and are now saying it's nothing to do with the tweet.
So I'll try again
. What specific policies were'too left wing?
Look at your first question again. You did not ask about policies. A party's policies won't take them far if their behaviour is so disgusting.
So once again we have concluded that a party can be labelled as too left wing without any particular policies which quantify as such.
Glad we got that cleared up.
100% Behaviour of elected members of parties and the party's response is a legit way to identify a party' leanings.
So presuming you will never vote Tory then?
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/politics/2017/feb/09/alan-pearmain-conservative-official-suspended-over-racist-tweet-aimed-at-diane-abbott
And just to clarify.. you think the labour mp in question has no sympathy for r@@@ victims?
Oh my god. You have a serious issue. Stop seeing everyone as Tory/Labour. I didn't even vote in the previous elections as it was only a few months after I moved here and I don't make up my mind about who I vote for until the week of elections. Not everyone is stupid enough to pledge their lives to a single party.
And I am repeating something to you for the fourth time probably. It's not the tweet itself that's a problem. It is how the party reacts to it. Labour did not even give a warning while the Tory person was suspended.
Probably something to do with the fact that the tweet was instantly deleted and she said it was a mistake.
I do find it a bit odd you.are happy with someone sending a racist messege to be suspended but you want some one retweeting someone instantly expelled from the party but whatever.
I'll ask again
Do you think this mp has no sympathy for r#@@ victims?
I find it odd that you keep imagining stuff I never said. When did I say I wanted her expelled? She deserved to be suspended."
You said you wouldmt vote for a party unless the kicked her out..or did I imagine that? |
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Yay. Back to the OP lol.
People still live in tribes - not saying that is a bad thing overall - but if that tribe just happens to be the normative one and selfishness is a key norm then it makes sense that it will seek to go evermore in that direction. I don't think that selfishness is 'the' key norm of the UK, and I don't think that it belongs intrinsically to any party. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Both extreme right and left wing are bad, labour didn't get voted in because they went to far left, the tories didn't go as far right.
The majority sit around the centre slightly left or right, despite what people think we are really a 2 party country so the one that plays the middle ground the best gets in.
Yes people are selfish but that is the same on the left as the right, having worked in China I saw selfishness just the same as here.
Saying all of that we are still one of the most open and tolerant countries in the world
Can you give me just 1 example of labour going "too far left?
If you dont think this current lot are far right...well politeness stops me going any further.
An MP liking and retweeting a tweet that said "r*pe victims must shut up for the sake of diversity". I personally would never vote for that party until she is kicked out.
Sorry was that an official policy or are we now just picking out individual things an mp said?
I personally wouldnt vote for someone who made comments about muslim women looking like letter boxes but millions did.
A party that suspends people like Trevor Philips for just talking about grooming gangs to not take any action on a person who posted such a vile tweet - it is their official stance.
If you think that comment about muslim women's costume is same as that comment on r*pe victims, you have got some serious problems. Don't let your political inclinations blind you.
Can you explain to me how saying something like that is 'too left wing'
And how does it tie into the labour manifesto?
Lionel and myself are waiting.
Tbf I think the argument that the entire labour party are too left wing because 1 person retweeted something incredibly stupid a few years ago,to he completely convincing.
It's not about that tweet. It's about how the party reacted to it. They have suspended others in the party for saying stuff that sounded remotely racist. But such a horrible statement going unpunished tells a lot about their party.
I asked what policies were too left wing.
You have quoted the tweet and are now saying it's nothing to do with the tweet.
So I'll try again
. What specific policies were'too left wing?
Look at your first question again. You did not ask about policies. A party's policies won't take them far if their behaviour is so disgusting.
So once again we have concluded that a party can be labelled as too left wing without any particular policies which quantify as such.
Glad we got that cleared up.
100% Behaviour of elected members of parties and the party's response is a legit way to identify a party' leanings.
So presuming you will never vote Tory then?
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/politics/2017/feb/09/alan-pearmain-conservative-official-suspended-over-racist-tweet-aimed-at-diane-abbott
And just to clarify.. you think the labour mp in question has no sympathy for r@@@ victims?
Oh my god. You have a serious issue. Stop seeing everyone as Tory/Labour. I didn't even vote in the previous elections as it was only a few months after I moved here and I don't make up my mind about who I vote for until the week of elections. Not everyone is stupid enough to pledge their lives to a single party.
And I am repeating something to you for the fourth time probably. It's not the tweet itself that's a problem. It is how the party reacts to it. Labour did not even give a warning while the Tory person was suspended.
Probably something to do with the fact that the tweet was instantly deleted and she said it was a mistake.
I do find it a bit odd you.are happy with someone sending a racist messege to be suspended but you want some one retweeting someone instantly expelled from the party but whatever.
I'll ask again
Do you think this mp has no sympathy for r#@@ victims?
I find it odd that you keep imagining stuff I never said. When did I say I wanted her expelled? She deserved to be suspended.
You said you wouldmt vote for a party unless the kicked her out..or did I imagine that?"
Suspension could also mean being kicked out albeit temporarily. After that I have made it clear that I wanted the party to take some kind of action against her. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Oh and if you think Russia actually gives a fuck about Syria other than taking control of an oil pipeline you are actually deluded
Plus , Russian air power is not suited or used in the same way as the US. Russia uses mostly unguided munitions from planes like the SU-25 Frogfoot, Su-57's and 35's when bombing targets, meaning alot lower accuracy especially in and around civilian areas. Meaning more possible civilian deaths.
They also are quite fond of using cluster munitions. Plus the fact in reality the Russian airforce was absolute dogshit before Syria. Syria has been their training ground.
How does that explain the civilian casualties in Afghanistan and Iraq with so called precision munitions?
It would have been a lot worse if a us led invasion happened in Syria.
Come on Wakeup... Everyone knows in those countries the bad guys were putting civilians around mitary targets daring the allied planes to bomb them. In war there will allways be unnecessary casualties.
That's nice, why don't you use the collateral damage euphemism?! Not needlessly Interfering in other countries would be a good start to avoid killing civies. Mis identifying targets, cover ups, persecution of journalists like Julian Assange, and you like to think we're the good guys.
Blow up a few hete, shoot a few there, blow up a wedding party, oh yes we're the good guys all right "
As I said there will allways be casualties. Intelligence is not always great either. Mistakes happen. Friendly fire etc. Better thst then living under a tyrant. Being gassed and bombed by your own government. Wake up ffs. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Oh and if you think Russia actually gives a fuck about Syria other than taking control of an oil pipeline you are actually deluded
Plus , Russian air power is not suited or used in the same way as the US. Russia uses mostly unguided munitions from planes like the SU-25 Frogfoot, Su-57's and 35's when bombing targets, meaning alot lower accuracy especially in and around civilian areas. Meaning more possible civilian deaths.
They also are quite fond of using cluster munitions. Plus the fact in reality the Russian airforce was absolute dogshit before Syria. Syria has been their training ground.
How does that explain the civilian casualties in Afghanistan and Iraq with so called precision munitions?
It would have been a lot worse if a us led invasion happened in Syria.
Come on Wakeup... Everyone knows in those countries the bad guys were putting civilians around mitary targets daring the allied planes to bomb them. In war there will allways be unnecessary casualties.
That's nice, why don't you use the collateral damage euphemism?! Not needlessly Interfering in other countries would be a good start to avoid killing civies. Mis identifying targets, cover ups, persecution of journalists like Julian Assange, and you like to think we're the good guys.
Blow up a few hete, shoot a few there, blow up a wedding party, oh yes we're the good guys all right "
You obviously don't understand how the world works pal. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Anyway, back to the topic, this is what I as an outsider has observed in this country and even other European countries. It's going to be a long post.
It's easy to understand the situation if you stop seeing left vs right as good vs bad and just see them as groups of politicians in power struggle. Ideologies are just tools. All they cared are about vote banks.
1) Left wing parties' major vote bank was traditionally the working class.
2) In the past few decades, the size of working class has been reducing as many have moved to middle class. This resulted in a reduction in their vote banks too. Unions based politics alone won't help them anymore.
3) With increase in immigration, they tried to be too clever by changing their image to be the party of social minorities too to develop their vote bank. They indulged in identity politics. This backfired in a way they didn't expect.
4) The new vote bank of immigrants are divided among themselves. India vs Pakistan, Israel vs Palestine, Muslims vs LGBT. Any stance they take on these matters is going to lose them votes from one of the groups. Anti-Semitism allegations, Indians going against Labour because of their stance on Kashmir are evidences for it.
5) They also managed to piss of their existing vote bank. Repeatedly using "white privilege" as a stick to beat down every white person doesn't help.
6) Social welfare works well only if the ratio of people paying in and the amount of people taking out is healthy. If you are going to take in numerous refugees, you need to explain how you are going to balance the ratio. This again indirectly affects the working class because they are the ones who depend more on social welfare.
So they have a vote bank with many conflicting interests(Brexit is another example). It is hard to satisfy everyone. What does the right wing party do? Just wait for left wing parties to make mistakes and point out their hypocrisies to the voters. That was good enough to pull away a big chunk to their side.
The most successful left wing party in Europe that I know of is the Social Democratic party of Denmark. They are the ones who were clever enough to understand the conflict of interest and even took a hard stance against refugees.
People have always been selfish. Political parties who adapt well to situations have always won. Present days are no different.
If I'm not mistaken, you are an immigrant in the UK? Apologies if I'm wrong.
My wonder is how you have so much more of an understanding than people who are UK nationals.
I must say, a very well put and articulate post."
Probably read about it somewhere |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Anyway, back to the topic, this is what I as an outsider has observed in this country and even other European countries. It's going to be a long post.
It's easy to understand the situation if you stop seeing left vs right as good vs bad and just see them as groups of politicians in power struggle. Ideologies are just tools. All they cared are about vote banks.
1) Left wing parties' major vote bank was traditionally the working class.
2) In the past few decades, the size of working class has been reducing as many have moved to middle class. This resulted in a reduction in their vote banks too. Unions based politics alone won't help them anymore.
3) With increase in immigration, they tried to be too clever by changing their image to be the party of social minorities too to develop their vote bank. They indulged in identity politics. This backfired in a way they didn't expect.
4) The new vote bank of immigrants are divided among themselves. India vs Pakistan, Israel vs Palestine, Muslims vs LGBT. Any stance they take on these matters is going to lose them votes from one of the groups. Anti-Semitism allegations, Indians going against Labour because of their stance on Kashmir are evidences for it.
5) They also managed to piss of their existing vote bank. Repeatedly using "white privilege" as a stick to beat down every white person doesn't help.
6) Social welfare works well only if the ratio of people paying in and the amount of people taking out is healthy. If you are going to take in numerous refugees, you need to explain how you are going to balance the ratio. This again indirectly affects the working class because they are the ones who depend more on social welfare.
So they have a vote bank with many conflicting interests(Brexit is another example). It is hard to satisfy everyone. What does the right wing party do? Just wait for left wing parties to make mistakes and point out their hypocrisies to the voters. That was good enough to pull away a big chunk to their side.
The most successful left wing party in Europe that I know of is the Social Democratic party of Denmark. They are the ones who were clever enough to understand the conflict of interest and even took a hard stance against refugees.
People have always been selfish. Political parties who adapt well to situations have always won. Present days are no different.
Tbh there is a lot there I cant disagree with.
There is certainly a case to be made the traditional working class vote has splintered..especially in the north.
You have many in the big cities you have stayed loyal to labour while those in the smaller towns felt new labour had let them down and as a protest voted for one of the most right wing gmnts in history.
Quite how labour square that circle is anyones guess.
One of new labours biggest mistake was to ignore the thorny issue of immigration which led to the rise of ukip and the likes of Tommy Robinson.
I fully agree. We've got finite resources and have to get a grip on immigration.
How the government are supposedly doing it is a totally shambolic failure.
Having people risk their lives by coming over in dinghies
Selfishly and endlessly importing skilled workers instead of employing and investing in uk citizens.
I know im going to get flak saying that but its an unsustainable attitude.
While labour floundered the tories just lied about controlling the borders. Now we're in the mess we're in they continue on the path of disaster
"
If the French authorities did their job properly we would not see immigrants risking their lives coming over. Its not Rocket science after all. We all know the reasons etc. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Both extreme right and left wing are bad, labour didn't get voted in because they went to far left, the tories didn't go as far right.
The majority sit around the centre slightly left or right, despite what people think we are really a 2 party country so the one that plays the middle ground the best gets in.
Yes people are selfish but that is the same on the left as the right, having worked in China I saw selfishness just the same as here.
Saying all of that we are still one of the most open and tolerant countries in the world
Can you give me just 1 example of labour going "too far left?
If you dont think this current lot are far right...well politeness stops me going any further.
An MP liking and retweeting a tweet that said "r*pe victims must shut up for the sake of diversity". I personally would never vote for that party until she is kicked out.
Sorry was that an official policy or are we now just picking out individual things an mp said?
I personally wouldnt vote for someone who made comments about muslim women looking like letter boxes but millions did.
A party that suspends people like Trevor Philips for just talking about grooming gangs to not take any action on a person who posted such a vile tweet - it is their official stance.
If you think that comment about muslim women's costume is same as that comment on r*pe victims, you have got some serious problems. Don't let your political inclinations blind you.
Can you explain to me how saying something like that is 'too left wing'
And how does it tie into the labour manifesto?
Lionel and myself are waiting.
Tbf I think the argument that the entire labour party are too left wing because 1 person retweeted something incredibly stupid a few years ago,to he completely convincing.
It's not about that tweet. It's about how the party reacted to it. They have suspended others in the party for saying stuff that sounded remotely racist. But such a horrible statement going unpunished tells a lot about their party.
I asked what policies were too left wing.
You have quoted the tweet and are now saying it's nothing to do with the tweet.
So I'll try again
. What specific policies were'too left wing?
It doesnt matter what your policies are when the party is full of cretins that embrace identity politics. The party infested with left wing radicals in the form of Momentum. These are not your normal unionist left. Labour has alienated those people as said by a poster above. It's now the party for anyone who went to uni, has a social science degree and goes ti Glastonbury. Not Terry down the steelworks.
Take my dad for example, ex printer and trade union member and was at the Poll tax riots, wouldnt touch Labour with a barge pole now
You have been told this multiple times, on multiple threads, by multiple people. Maybe you should start listening to what we are saying instead of deflecting.
To clarify
You are saying the party is too left wing
And asking for 1 specific policy which is too left wing is deflecting?
I always find it amusing when people bang on about the party being too radical but cannot provide 1 simple example to back up this claim.
Well off the top of my head for one wasnt one policy of labour to forcefully buy back empty property in London? That is literally forced wealth distribution.
The Broadband one, I'm not sure how that was supposed to work? Was the government going to lay all it's own fibre optic network? I very much doubt that.
They cosied up to BLM pretty quickly. BLM ARE a Marxist organisation, no matter how much you try and cry otherwise they are. They deleted that info off their website pretty quickly when people pointed it out. Its Archived if you wanted to look. Said stuff like abolishment of the police and Capitalism
But again you are not listening to what people are saying. It doesnt matter about your policies when nobody likes the people making them.
I don't know about the london one so I'll read up on that..but I'm sure having empty properties when there is a housing crises is a splendid idea.
Cosying up to the blm was not a policy and clearly something you have just invented ,unless you want to point me in the direction of a labour policy calling for the police to be funded?
The broadband policy was designed to level up the country.
Internet has and will become more and more important in our lives but obviously an inclusive policy which will benefit everyone in the long run is a bad move.
There was an it specialist on radio 4 a while ago who said it made perfect sense and would create jobs in the long run.
Presumably it would have have come in useful in the last year.
Personally I wouldnt call a policy which improves the lives of everyone on the country as radical but you obviously beg to differ.
And you also seem to be saying you dont like labour because you dont like some of the people in the party.
So be my guest and vote Tory.. great bunch of lads."
Tories may not be popular for some at the moment but unfortunate there is no credible alternative. You only have to look at recent pollsto see the silent majority stillback them for doing an acceptable job in Government. Myself included. |
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"Anyway, back to the topic, this is what I as an outsider has observed in this country and even other European countries. It's going to be a long post.
It's easy to understand the situation if you stop seeing left vs right as good vs bad and just see them as groups of politicians in power struggle. Ideologies are just tools. All they cared are about vote banks.
1) Left wing parties' major vote bank was traditionally the working class.
2) In the past few decades, the size of working class has been reducing as many have moved to middle class. This resulted in a reduction in their vote banks too. Unions based politics alone won't help them anymore.
3) With increase in immigration, they tried to be too clever by changing their image to be the party of social minorities too to develop their vote bank. They indulged in identity politics. This backfired in a way they didn't expect.
4) The new vote bank of immigrants are divided among themselves. India vs Pakistan, Israel vs Palestine, Muslims vs LGBT. Any stance they take on these matters is going to lose them votes from one of the groups. Anti-Semitism allegations, Indians going against Labour because of their stance on Kashmir are evidences for it.
5) They also managed to piss of their existing vote bank. Repeatedly using "white privilege" as a stick to beat down every white person doesn't help.
6) Social welfare works well only if the ratio of people paying in and the amount of people taking out is healthy. If you are going to take in numerous refugees, you need to explain how you are going to balance the ratio. This again indirectly affects the working class because they are the ones who depend more on social welfare.
So they have a vote bank with many conflicting interests(Brexit is another example). It is hard to satisfy everyone. What does the right wing party do? Just wait for left wing parties to make mistakes and point out their hypocrisies to the voters. That was good enough to pull away a big chunk to their side.
The most successful left wing party in Europe that I know of is the Social Democratic party of Denmark. They are the ones who were clever enough to understand the conflict of interest and even took a hard stance against refugees.
People have always been selfish. Political parties who adapt well to situations have always won. Present days are no different.
Tbh there is a lot there I cant disagree with.
There is certainly a case to be made the traditional working class vote has splintered..especially in the north.
You have many in the big cities you have stayed loyal to labour while those in the smaller towns felt new labour had let them down and as a protest voted for one of the most right wing gmnts in history.
Quite how labour square that circle is anyones guess.
One of new labours biggest mistake was to ignore the thorny issue of immigration which led to the rise of ukip and the likes of Tommy Robinson.
I fully agree. We've got finite resources and have to get a grip on immigration.
How the government are supposedly doing it is a totally shambolic failure.
Having people risk their lives by coming over in dinghies
Selfishly and endlessly importing skilled workers instead of employing and investing in uk citizens.
I know im going to get flak saying that but its an unsustainable attitude.
While labour floundered the tories just lied about controlling the borders. Now we're in the mess we're in they continue on the path of disaster
If the French authorities did their job properly we would not see immigrants risking their lives coming over. Its not Rocket science after all. We all know the reasons etc. "
What are the reasons?
Bearing in mind we are still behind the likes of turkey and Germany in the numbers of immigrants countries take. |
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"Anyway, back to the topic, this is what I as an outsider has observed in this country and even other European countries. It's going to be a long post.
It's easy to understand the situation if you stop seeing left vs right as good vs bad and just see them as groups of politicians in power struggle. Ideologies are just tools. All they cared are about vote banks.
1) Left wing parties' major vote bank was traditionally the working class.
2) In the past few decades, the size of working class has been reducing as many have moved to middle class. This resulted in a reduction in their vote banks too. Unions based politics alone won't help them anymore.
3) With increase in immigration, they tried to be too clever by changing their image to be the party of social minorities too to develop their vote bank. They indulged in identity politics. This backfired in a way they didn't expect.
4) The new vote bank of immigrants are divided among themselves. India vs Pakistan, Israel vs Palestine, Muslims vs LGBT. Any stance they take on these matters is going to lose them votes from one of the groups. Anti-Semitism allegations, Indians going against Labour because of their stance on Kashmir are evidences for it.
5) They also managed to piss of their existing vote bank. Repeatedly using "white privilege" as a stick to beat down every white person doesn't help.
6) Social welfare works well only if the ratio of people paying in and the amount of people taking out is healthy. If you are going to take in numerous refugees, you need to explain how you are going to balance the ratio. This again indirectly affects the working class because they are the ones who depend more on social welfare.
So they have a vote bank with many conflicting interests(Brexit is another example). It is hard to satisfy everyone. What does the right wing party do? Just wait for left wing parties to make mistakes and point out their hypocrisies to the voters. That was good enough to pull away a big chunk to their side.
The most successful left wing party in Europe that I know of is the Social Democratic party of Denmark. They are the ones who were clever enough to understand the conflict of interest and even took a hard stance against refugees.
People have always been selfish. Political parties who adapt well to situations have always won. Present days are no different.
Tbh there is a lot there I cant disagree with.
There is certainly a case to be made the traditional working class vote has splintered..especially in the north.
You have many in the big cities you have stayed loyal to labour while those in the smaller towns felt new labour had let them down and as a protest voted for one of the most right wing gmnts in history.
Quite how labour square that circle is anyones guess.
One of new labours biggest mistake was to ignore the thorny issue of immigration which led to the rise of ukip and the likes of Tommy Robinson.
I fully agree. We've got finite resources and have to get a grip on immigration.
How the government are supposedly doing it is a totally shambolic failure.
Having people risk their lives by coming over in dinghies
Selfishly and endlessly importing skilled workers instead of employing and investing in uk citizens.
I know im going to get flak saying that but its an unsustainable attitude.
While labour floundered the tories just lied about controlling the borders. Now we're in the mess we're in they continue on the path of disaster
If the French authorities did their job properly we would not see immigrants risking their lives coming over. Its not Rocket science after all. We all know the reasons etc.
What are the reasons?
Bearing in mind we are still behind the likes of turkey and Germany in the numbers of immigrants countries take."
england has highest population per sq k in eu easy, we need more tower blocks lol or keep people in boats off shore? coz we are never going to have the same land mass as germany! invade it? ban bungalows as land mass inefficient? just kicking round ideas.... dont panic! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Both extreme right and left wing are bad, labour didn't get voted in because they went to far left, the tories didn't go as far right.
The majority sit around the centre slightly left or right, despite what people think we are really a 2 party country so the one that plays the middle ground the best gets in.
Yes people are selfish but that is the same on the left as the right, having worked in China I saw selfishness just the same as here.
Saying all of that we are still one of the most open and tolerant countries in the world
Can you give me just 1 example of labour going "too far left?
If you dont think this current lot are far right...well politeness stops me going any further.
An MP liking and retweeting a tweet that said "r*pe victims must shut up for the sake of diversity". I personally would never vote for that party until she is kicked out.
Sorry was that an official policy or are we now just picking out individual things an mp said?
I personally wouldnt vote for someone who made comments about muslim women looking like letter boxes but millions did.
A party that suspends people like Trevor Philips for just talking about grooming gangs to not take any action on a person who posted such a vile tweet - it is their official stance.
If you think that comment about muslim women's costume is same as that comment on r*pe victims, you have got some serious problems. Don't let your political inclinations blind you.
Can you explain to me how saying something like that is 'too left wing'
And how does it tie into the labour manifesto?
Lionel and myself are waiting.
Tbf I think the argument that the entire labour party are too left wing because 1 person retweeted something incredibly stupid a few years ago,to he completely convincing.
It's not about that tweet. It's about how the party reacted to it. They have suspended others in the party for saying stuff that sounded remotely racist. But such a horrible statement going unpunished tells a lot about their party.
I asked what policies were too left wing.
You have quoted the tweet and are now saying it's nothing to do with the tweet.
So I'll try again
. What specific policies were'too left wing?
Look at your first question again. You did not ask about policies. A party's policies won't take them far if their behaviour is so disgusting.
So once again we have concluded that a party can be labelled as too left wing without any particular policies which quantify as such.
Glad we got that cleared up.
100% Behaviour of elected members of parties and the party's response is a legit way to identify a party' leanings.
So presuming you will never vote Tory then?
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/politics/2017/feb/09/alan-pearmain-conservative-official-suspended-over-racist-tweet-aimed-at-diane-abbott
And just to clarify.. you think the labour mp in question has no sympathy for r@@@ victims?
Oh my god. You have a serious issue. Stop seeing everyone as Tory/Labour. I didn't even vote in the previous elections as it was only a few months after I moved here and I don't make up my mind about who I vote for until the week of elections. Not everyone is stupid enough to pledge their lives to a single party.
And I am repeating something to you for the fourth time probably. It's not the tweet itself that's a problem. It is how the party reacts to it. Labour did not even give a warning while the Tory person was suspended."
Well they do say if you don't vote for Tory or Labour then it's a wasted vote because no other party has any chance of winning and that's a fact..Regardless of what you may think and want to change in the world. I have got news for you. It ain't gonna happen pal. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Oh and if you think Russia actually gives a fuck about Syria other than taking control of an oil pipeline you are actually deluded
Plus , Russian air power is not suited or used in the same way as the US. Russia uses mostly unguided munitions from planes like the SU-25 Frogfoot, Su-57's and 35's when bombing targets, meaning alot lower accuracy especially in and around civilian areas. Meaning more possible civilian deaths.
They also are quite fond of using cluster munitions. Plus the fact in reality the Russian airforce was absolute dogshit before Syria. Syria has been their training ground.
"
Wow.. Ladies and Gentleman we have a Russian Air Force General in our midsts on Fab. He is telling us all about the air war over Syria. GO GENERAL... Lol. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Oh and if you think Russia actually gives a fuck about Syria other than taking control of an oil pipeline you are actually deluded
Plus , Russian air power is not suited or used in the same way as the US. Russia uses mostly unguided munitions from planes like the SU-25 Frogfoot, Su-57's and 35's when bombing targets, meaning alot lower accuracy especially in and around civilian areas. Meaning more possible civilian deaths.
They also are quite fond of using cluster munitions. Plus the fact in reality the Russian airforce was absolute dogshit before Syria. Syria has been their training ground.
How does that explain the civilian casualties in Afghanistan and Iraq with so called precision munitions?
It would have been a lot worse if a us led invasion happened in Syria.
Well in Afghanistan a nearly 20 year war the US has killed 2,122 civilians with air strikes.
Russia have killed nearly 7000 in under 10...
335,000 would be a better estimate for American killings"
So now you are an experts on casualties from American bombings ffs. We're you in these countries putting these figures together. No I did not think you were. Stop rubbishing the gods old USA Air force. After all it was them that helped us live the way we are now and not under the Nazi jack boot ffs. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Both extreme right and left wing are bad, labour didn't get voted in because they went to far left, the tories didn't go as far right.
The majority sit around the centre slightly left or right, despite what people think we are really a 2 party country so the one that plays the middle ground the best gets in.
Yes people are selfish but that is the same on the left as the right, having worked in China I saw selfishness just the same as here.
Saying all of that we are still one of the most open and tolerant countries in the world
Can you give me just 1 example of labour going "too far left?
If you dont think this current lot are far right...well politeness stops me going any further.
An MP liking and retweeting a tweet that said "r*pe victims must shut up for the sake of diversity". I personally would never vote for that party until she is kicked out.
Sorry was that an official policy or are we now just picking out individual things an mp said?
I personally wouldnt vote for someone who made comments about muslim women looking like letter boxes but millions did.
A party that suspends people like Trevor Philips for just talking about grooming gangs to not take any action on a person who posted such a vile tweet - it is their official stance.
If you think that comment about muslim women's costume is same as that comment on r*pe victims, you have got some serious problems. Don't let your political inclinations blind you.
Can you explain to me how saying something like that is 'too left wing'
And how does it tie into the labour manifesto?
Lionel and myself are waiting.
Tbf I think the argument that the entire labour party are too left wing because 1 person retweeted something incredibly stupid a few years ago,to he completely convincing.
It's not about that tweet. It's about how the party reacted to it. They have suspended others in the party for saying stuff that sounded remotely racist. But such a horrible statement going unpunished tells a lot about their party.
I asked what policies were too left wing.
You have quoted the tweet and are now saying it's nothing to do with the tweet.
So I'll try again
. What specific policies were'too left wing?
Look at your first question again. You did not ask about policies. A party's policies won't take them far if their behaviour is so disgusting.
So once again we have concluded that a party can be labelled as too left wing without any particular policies which quantify as such.
Glad we got that cleared up.
100% Behaviour of elected members of parties and the party's response is a legit way to identify a party' leanings.
So presuming you will never vote Tory then?
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/politics/2017/feb/09/alan-pearmain-conservative-official-suspended-over-racist-tweet-aimed-at-diane-abbott
And just to clarify.. you think the labour mp in question has no sympathy for r@@@ victims?
Oh my god. You have a serious issue. Stop seeing everyone as Tory/Labour. I didn't even vote in the previous elections as it was only a few months after I moved here and I don't make up my mind about who I vote for until the week of elections. Not everyone is stupid enough to pledge their lives to a single party.
And I am repeating something to you for the fourth time probably. It's not the tweet itself that's a problem. It is how the party reacts to it. Labour did not even give a warning while the Tory person was suspended.
Well they do say if you don't vote for Tory or Labour then it's a wasted vote because no other party has any chance of winning and that's a fact..Regardless of what you may think and want to change in the world. I have got news for you. It ain't gonna happen pal. "
Haven't the libdems entered a coalition with the Tories once? It's their fault they messed up their chance. These are the chances which smaller parties must grab and make inroads into the vote banks. It's hard to say that a third party won't get a similar chance again. |
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"I’m sure we can stop the division and accusations of selfishness for one minute and wish Boris a hearty congrats for his good news in that he is expecting another baby.
No need for any projection
"
Good news for them both indeed especially as she lost one at the start of the year. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
" We're you in these countries putting these figures together. No I did not think you were. Stop rubbishing the gods old USA Air force. After all it was them that helped us live the way we are now and not under the Nazi jack boot ffs. "
Ill reply to each retort in detail;
As a matter of fact... I was over there and other conflicts in the ramc
America is very different today than 80 years ago. A big change since i would say, the McArthyism era.
Your not a farage supporter by any chance with that rant?
|
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"Oh and if you think Russia actually gives a fuck about Syria other than taking control of an oil pipeline you are actually deluded
Plus , Russian air power is not suited or used in the same way as the US. Russia uses mostly unguided munitions from planes like the SU-25 Frogfoot, Su-57's and 35's when bombing targets, meaning alot lower accuracy especially in and around civilian areas. Meaning more possible civilian deaths.
They also are quite fond of using cluster munitions. Plus the fact in reality the Russian airforce was absolute dogshit before Syria. Syria has been their training ground.
How does that explain the civilian casualties in Afghanistan and Iraq with so called precision munitions?
It would have been a lot worse if a us led invasion happened in Syria.
Well in Afghanistan a nearly 20 year war the US has killed 2,122 civilians with air strikes.
Russia have killed nearly 7000 in under 10...
335,000 would be a better estimate for American killings
So now you are an experts on casualties from American bombings ffs. We're you in these countries putting these figures together. No I did not think you were. Stop rubbishing the gods old USA Air force. After all it was them that helped us live the way we are now and not under the Nazi jack boot ffs. "
Oh and btw, ive seen smelt and hesrd it and upto the eyes in it, and endured it with casualties.. If try it, it might wake you up a little ad to the less glamorous facet of conflict, but your lucky, and in some way, i am envious of you., because ignorance is bliss.
|
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Heres a quick history run down, as you can see liberals in 1906.... but liberals that didnt believe in gay sex, obvs! lol so has anything really changed or just morphed?
Henry Campbell-Bannerman Liberal (minority) Campbell-Bannerman ministry
1906 Liberal
1908 H. H. Asquith First Asquith ministry
1910 George V Liberal (minority) Second Asquith ministry
1910 Third Asquith ministry
1915 Coalition Asquith coalition ministry
1916 David Lloyd George Lloyd George war ministry
1918 Second Lloyd George ministry
1922 Bonar Law Conservative Law ministry
1922
1923 Stanley Baldwin First Baldwin ministry
1923 Conservative (caretaker)[nb 6]
1924 Ramsay MacDonald Labour (minority) First MacDonald ministry
1924 Stanley Baldwin Conservative Second Baldwin ministry
1929 Conservative (caretaker)[nb 6]
1929 Ramsay MacDonald Labour (minority) Second MacDonald ministry
1931 National First National Government
1931 Second National Government
1935 Stanley Baldwin Third National Government
1935
1936 Edward VIII
1936 George VI
1937 Neville Chamberlain Fourth National Government
1939 Chamberlain war ministry
1940 Winston Churchill Coalition Churchill war ministry
1945 National (caretaker) Churchill caretaker ministry
1945 Clement Attlee Labour First Attlee ministry
1950 Second Attlee ministry
1951 Winston Churchill Conservative Third Churchill ministry
1952 Elizabeth II
1955 Anthony Eden Eden ministry
1955
1957 Harold Macmillan First Macmillan ministry
1959 Second Macmillan ministry
1963 Alec Douglas-Home[nb 7] Douglas-Home ministry
1964 Harold Wilson Labour First Wilson ministry
1966 Second Wilson ministry
1970 Edward Heath Conservative Heath ministry
1974 Conservative (caretaker)[nb 6]
1974 Harold Wilson Labour (minority) Third Wilson ministry
1974 Labour Fourth Wilson ministry
1976 James Callaghan Callaghan ministry
1977 Labour (minority)
1979 Margaret Thatcher Conservative First Thatcher ministry
1983 Second Thatcher ministry
1987 Third Thatcher ministry
1990 John Major First Major ministry
1992 Second Major ministry
1996 Conservative (minority)
1997 Tony Blair Labour First Blair ministry
2001 Second Blair ministry
2005 Third Blair ministry
2007 Gordon Brown Brown ministry
2010 Labour (caretaker)[nb 6]
2010 David Cameron Conservative Liberal Democrat Cameron–Clegg coalition
2015 Conservative Second Cameron ministry
2016 Theresa May First May ministry
2017 Conservative (caretaker)[nb 6]
2017 Conservative (minority) Second May ministry
2019 Boris Johnson First Johnson ministry
2019 Conservative |
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"Both extreme right and left wing are bad, labour didn't get voted in because they went to far left, the tories didn't go as far right.
The majority sit around the centre slightly left or right, despite what people think we are really a 2 party country so the one that plays the middle ground the best gets in.
Yes people are selfish but that is the same on the left as the right, having worked in China I saw selfishness just the same as here.
Saying all of that we are still one of the most open and tolerant countries in the world
Can you give me just 1 example of labour going "too far left?
If you dont think this current lot are far right...well politeness stops me going any further.
An MP liking and retweeting a tweet that said "r*pe victims must shut up for the sake of diversity". I personally would never vote for that party until she is kicked out.
Sorry was that an official policy or are we now just picking out individual things an mp said?
I personally wouldnt vote for someone who made comments about muslim women looking like letter boxes but millions did.
A party that suspends people like Trevor Philips for just talking about grooming gangs to not take any action on a person who posted such a vile tweet - it is their official stance.
If you think that comment about muslim women's costume is same as that comment on r*pe victims, you have got some serious problems. Don't let your political inclinations blind you.
Can you explain to me how saying something like that is 'too left wing'
And how does it tie into the labour manifesto?
Lionel and myself are waiting.
Tbf I think the argument that the entire labour party are too left wing because 1 person retweeted something incredibly stupid a few years ago,to he completely convincing.
It's not about that tweet. It's about how the party reacted to it. They have suspended others in the party for saying stuff that sounded remotely racist. But such a horrible statement going unpunished tells a lot about their party.
I asked what policies were too left wing.
You have quoted the tweet and are now saying it's nothing to do with the tweet.
So I'll try again
. What specific policies were'too left wing?
Look at your first question again. You did not ask about policies. A party's policies won't take them far if their behaviour is so disgusting.
So once again we have concluded that a party can be labelled as too left wing without any particular policies which quantify as such.
Glad we got that cleared up.
100% Behaviour of elected members of parties and the party's response is a legit way to identify a party' leanings.
So presuming you will never vote Tory then?
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/politics/2017/feb/09/alan-pearmain-conservative-official-suspended-over-racist-tweet-aimed-at-diane-abbott
And just to clarify.. you think the labour mp in question has no sympathy for r@@@ victims?
Oh my god. You have a serious issue. Stop seeing everyone as Tory/Labour. I didn't even vote in the previous elections as it was only a few months after I moved here and I don't make up my mind about who I vote for until the week of elections. Not everyone is stupid enough to pledge their lives to a single party.
And I am repeating something to you for the fourth time probably. It's not the tweet itself that's a problem. It is how the party reacts to it. Labour did not even give a warning while the Tory person was suspended.
Well they do say if you don't vote for Tory or Labour then it's a wasted vote because no other party has any chance of winning and that's a fact..Regardless of what you may think and want to change in the world. I have got news for you. It ain't gonna happen pal.
Haven't the libdems entered a coalition with the Tories once? It's their fault they messed up their chance. These are the chances which smaller parties must grab and make inroads into the vote banks. It's hard to say that a third party won't get a similar chance again."
Yep and it damaged them irreparably. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"Both extreme right and left wing are bad, labour didn't get voted in because they went to far left, the tories didn't go as far right.
The majority sit around the centre slightly left or right, despite what people think we are really a 2 party country so the one that plays the middle ground the best gets in.
Yes people are selfish but that is the same on the left as the right, having worked in China I saw selfishness just the same as here.
Saying all of that we are still one of the most open and tolerant countries in the world
Can you give me just 1 example of labour going "too far left?
If you dont think this current lot are far right...well politeness stops me going any further.
An MP liking and retweeting a tweet that said "r*pe victims must shut up for the sake of diversity". I personally would never vote for that party until she is kicked out.
Sorry was that an official policy or are we now just picking out individual things an mp said?
I personally wouldnt vote for someone who made comments about muslim women looking like letter boxes but millions did.
A party that suspends people like Trevor Philips for just talking about grooming gangs to not take any action on a person who posted such a vile tweet - it is their official stance.
If you think that comment about muslim women's costume is same as that comment on r*pe victims, you have got some serious problems. Don't let your political inclinations blind you.
Can you explain to me how saying something like that is 'too left wing'
And how does it tie into the labour manifesto?
Lionel and myself are waiting.
Tbf I think the argument that the entire labour party are too left wing because 1 person retweeted something incredibly stupid a few years ago,to he completely convincing.
It's not about that tweet. It's about how the party reacted to it. They have suspended others in the party for saying stuff that sounded remotely racist. But such a horrible statement going unpunished tells a lot about their party.
I asked what policies were too left wing.
You have quoted the tweet and are now saying it's nothing to do with the tweet.
So I'll try again
. What specific policies were'too left wing?
Look at your first question again. You did not ask about policies. A party's policies won't take them far if their behaviour is so disgusting.
So once again we have concluded that a party can be labelled as too left wing without any particular policies which quantify as such.
Glad we got that cleared up.
100% Behaviour of elected members of parties and the party's response is a legit way to identify a party' leanings.
So presuming you will never vote Tory then?
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/politics/2017/feb/09/alan-pearmain-conservative-official-suspended-over-racist-tweet-aimed-at-diane-abbott
And just to clarify.. you think the labour mp in question has no sympathy for r@@@ victims?
Oh my god. You have a serious issue. Stop seeing everyone as Tory/Labour. I didn't even vote in the previous elections as it was only a few months after I moved here and I don't make up my mind about who I vote for until the week of elections. Not everyone is stupid enough to pledge their lives to a single party.
And I am repeating something to you for the fourth time probably. It's not the tweet itself that's a problem. It is how the party reacts to it. Labour did not even give a warning while the Tory person was suspended.
Well they do say if you don't vote for Tory or Labour then it's a wasted vote because no other party has any chance of winning and that's a fact..Regardless of what you may think and want to change in the world. I have got news for you. It ain't gonna happen pal.
Haven't the libdems entered a coalition with the Tories once? It's their fault they messed up their chance. These are the chances which smaller parties must grab and make inroads into the vote banks. It's hard to say that a third party won't get a similar chance again.
Yep and it damaged them irreparably."
Seeing nick clegg's cringe worthy apology was terrible. Still remember it now |
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