FabSwingers.com > Forums > Politics > CAPITALISM. Westerns curse
CAPITALISM. Westerns curse
Jump to: Newest in thread
| |||
| |||
"The days of kids anywhere playing with a stick and hoop are long gone. Western Capitalism seems very popular in Africa as a large proportion of young African men (in comparison to women) seem hell bent on getting to the West rather than enriching their native country. " Maybe in the built up areas Africa I's is a big continent, It's like a conversation I rember reading from carl jungs book i just remberd and looked up. How cruel the whites are: their lips are thin, their noses sharp, their faces furrowed and distorted by holes. Their eyes have a staring expression. They are always seeking something. What are they seeking? The whites always want something, they are always uneasy and restless. We do not know what they want, we do not understand them, we think that they are mad.” I asked him why he thought the whites were all mad. “They say they think with their heads,” he replied. “Why, of course. What do you think with?” I asked him in surprise. “We think here,” he said, indicating his heart.^ [1] | |||
"Is the western curse always wanting more? kids in Africa are whole just playing with a stick and hula hoop, are we lied to as to what we truly need a crave the most as humans, always been led in to the next economy or trend? " Frankly, living a Pastoral life is sincerely over-rated, lol. And do remember that a hoop and a stick was once the indicator between rich and poor, too. We also need to stop believing - and stop others having us believe - that everything that happens in poor countries is our fault. If you want to go live in a tree or range the grasslands, that's up to you. Me. I like my Netflix and Disney+. I also owned a hoop (minus the stick) when I was a child.  | |||
"Is the western curse always wanting more? kids in Africa are whole just playing with a stick and hula hoop, are we lied to as to what we truly need a crave the most as humans, always been led in to the next economy or trend? Frankly, living a Pastoral life is sincerely over-rated, lol. And do remember that a hoop and a stick was once the indicator between rich and poor, too. We also need to stop believing - and stop others having us believe - that everything that happens in poor countries is our fault. If you want to go live in a tree or range the grasslands, that's up to you. Me. I like my Netflix and Disney+. I also owned a hoop (minus the stick) when I was a child. "Sure I was just using them as an example, over rated for who, have you tried it from experience?personally I'd love to live self sustainabley, possibly in a commune and learn mental and emotional mastery. And stay as far away as possible from indulgences. Not likey in todays age sure but even still I'm conscious of it. And plan on visiting a local community in the near future too. I just find things like lineing up for the latest iPhone, is insanity and like wise they likely think I am insane and we would both probley say each of us is brain washed  | |||
"Is the western curse always wanting more? kids in Africa are whole just playing with a stick and hula hoop, are we lied to as to what we truly need a crave the most as humans, always been led in to the next economy or trend? Frankly, living a Pastoral life is sincerely over-rated, lol. And do remember that a hoop and a stick was once the indicator between rich and poor, too. We also need to stop believing - and stop others having us believe - that everything that happens in poor countries is our fault. If you want to go live in a tree or range the grasslands, that's up to you. Me. I like my Netflix and Disney+. I also owned a hoop (minus the stick) when I was a child.
Sure I was just using them as an example, over rated for who, have you tried it from experience?personally I'd love to live self sustainabley, possibly in a commune and learn mental and emotional mastery. And stay as far away as possible from indulgences. Not likey in todays age sure but even still I'm conscious of it. And plan on visiting a local community in the near future too.
I just find things like lineing up for the latest iPhone, is insanity and like wise they likely think I am insane and we would both probley say each of us is brain washed "Yet you spend time on the internet.  | |||
| |||
"Capitalism bashing is trendy these days. What alternative do you suggest? Socialism? Communism?" not as trendy as U.K. bashing tho lol | |||
"Capitalism bashing is trendy these days. What alternative do you suggest? Socialism? Communism?" You mean the type of socialism which built the NHS and is currently vaccinating the population? | |||
"Capitalism bashing is trendy these days. What alternative do you suggest? Socialism? Communism? You mean the type of socialism which built the NHS and is currently vaccinating the population?" While the NHS workers get paid much less than what a capitalist economy pays for health workers based on supply/demand? | |||
"Capitalism bashing is trendy these days. What alternative do you suggest? Socialism? Communism? You mean the type of socialism which built the NHS and is currently vaccinating the population? While the NHS workers get paid much less than what a capitalist economy pays for health workers based on supply/demand?" I've no idea what that means. If socialism is so abhorrent, I assume you dont use the NHS ? | |||
"Capitalism bashing is trendy these days. What alternative do you suggest? Socialism? Communism? You mean the type of socialism which built the NHS and is currently vaccinating the population? While the NHS workers get paid much less than what a capitalist economy pays for health workers based on supply/demand? I've no idea what that means. If socialism is so abhorrent, I assume you dont use the NHS ?" Except that the NHS isn't a Socialist endeavour, it is Nationalised Medical Service. 
Nice idea though.  | |||
"Capitalism bashing is trendy these days. What alternative do you suggest? Socialism? Communism? You mean the type of socialism which built the NHS and is currently vaccinating the population? While the NHS workers get paid much less than what a capitalist economy pays for health workers based on supply/demand? I've no idea what that means. If socialism is so abhorrent, I assume you dont use the NHS ?" It means that in a free market, employees are paid based on demand/supply. Salary is not forced upon by government orders. Healthcare workers in the US are the highest paid because of that reason. NHS workers in the UK are not pair much for the same reason. Socialism comes at a cost.Medicine and education are absolute necessities for economic mobility. Hence it is fine to make that compromise and use a hybrid of socialist/capitalistic model. And still it is a risk. For when tax payers to non-tax payers ratio goes down, it becomes unsustainable. For rest of the stuff, it is better to let free market handle everything. We have enough examples to show what really happens when you try socialism on everything. Or are you one of those arrogant armchair socialists who has the audacity to claim that "Socialism/Communism was not implemented properly" Of course you know a lot more about socialism than Lenin, Stalin, Che Guevara and Mao. | |||
"Capitalism bashing is trendy these days. What alternative do you suggest? Socialism? Communism? You mean the type of socialism which built the NHS and is currently vaccinating the population? While the NHS workers get paid much less than what a capitalist economy pays for health workers based on supply/demand? I've no idea what that means. If socialism is so abhorrent, I assume you dont use the NHS ? Except that the NHS isn't a Socialist endeavour, it is Nationalised Medical Service.
Nice idea though. "Average nurse salary there 21000 USD Here 66000 USD. Grant it you have the NHS. There is a major difference on the pay scale end of being a nurse there compared to here. | |||
"Capitalism bashing is trendy these days. What alternative do you suggest? Socialism? Communism? You mean the type of socialism which built the NHS and is currently vaccinating the population? While the NHS workers get paid much less than what a capitalist economy pays for health workers based on supply/demand? I've no idea what that means. If socialism is so abhorrent, I assume you dont use the NHS ? Except that the NHS isn't a Socialist endeavour, it is Nationalised Medical Service.
Nice idea though.
Average nurse salary there 21000 USD
Here 66000 USD.
Grant it you have the NHS. There is a major difference on the pay scale end of being a nurse there compared to here."I privare nurse is bound to be paid more. Not sure how that's relevant to decrying a system which has kept us afloat during a pandemic and is currently on the brink of getting us back to normal. | |||
"Capitalism bashing is trendy these days. What alternative do you suggest? Socialism? Communism? You mean the type of socialism which built the NHS and is currently vaccinating the population? While the NHS workers get paid much less than what a capitalist economy pays for health workers based on supply/demand? I've no idea what that means. If socialism is so abhorrent, I assume you dont use the NHS ? Except that the NHS isn't a Socialist endeavour, it is Nationalised Medical Service.
Nice idea though.
Average nurse salary there 21000 USD
Here 66000 USD.
Grant it you have the NHS. There is a major difference on the pay scale end of being a nurse there compared to here.
I privare nurse is bound to be paid more.
Not sure how that's relevant to decrying a system which has kept us afloat during a pandemic and is currently on the brink of getting us back to normal."Another misnomer - many NHS work at private hospitals too and the salaries are roughly the same. | |||
"Capitalism bashing is trendy these days. What alternative do you suggest? Socialism? Communism? You mean the type of socialism which built the NHS and is currently vaccinating the population? While the NHS workers get paid much less than what a capitalist economy pays for health workers based on supply/demand? I've no idea what that means. If socialism is so abhorrent, I assume you dont use the NHS ? Except that the NHS isn't a Socialist endeavour, it is Nationalised Medical Service.
Nice idea though.
Average nurse salary there 21000 USD
Here 66000 USD.
Grant it you have the NHS. There is a major difference on the pay scale end of being a nurse there compared to here.
I privare nurse is bound to be paid more.
Not sure how that's relevant to decrying a system which has kept us afloat during a pandemic and is currently on the brink of getting us back to normal."And so did ours. | |||
"Capitalism bashing is trendy these days. What alternative do you suggest? Socialism? Communism? You mean the type of socialism which built the NHS and is currently vaccinating the population? While the NHS workers get paid much less than what a capitalist economy pays for health workers based on supply/demand? I've no idea what that means. If socialism is so abhorrent, I assume you dont use the NHS ? It means that in a free market, employees are paid based on demand/supply. Salary is not forced upon by government orders. Healthcare workers in the US are the highest paid because of that reason. NHS workers in the UK are not pair much for the same reason. Socialism comes at a cost.Medicine and education are absolute necessities for economic mobility. Hence it is fine to make that compromise and use a hybrid of socialist/capitalistic model. And still it is a risk. For when tax payers to non-tax payers ratio goes down, it becomes unsustainable. For rest of the stuff, it is better to let free market handle everything. We have enough examples to show what really happens when you try socialism on everything. Or are you one of those arrogant armchair socialists who has the audacity to claim that "Socialism/Communism was not implemented properly" Of course you know a lot more about socialism than Lenin, Stalin, Che Guevara and Mao." I still dont really know what you are on about. A socialist gmnt built the welfare state. Free health care at the point of service Is about left wing as you can get,so without socialism the nhs wouldnt exist. As for letting the free market decide everything, how is that working out in the states for example? | |||
"Capitalism bashing is trendy these days. What alternative do you suggest? Socialism? Communism? You mean the type of socialism which built the NHS and is currently vaccinating the population? While the NHS workers get paid much less than what a capitalist economy pays for health workers based on supply/demand? I've no idea what that means. If socialism is so abhorrent, I assume you dont use the NHS ? Except that the NHS isn't a Socialist endeavour, it is Nationalised Medical Service.
Nice idea though.
Average nurse salary there 21000 USD
Here 66000 USD.
Grant it you have the NHS. There is a major difference on the pay scale end of being a nurse there compared to here.
I privare nurse is bound to be paid more.
Not sure how that's relevant to decrying a system which has kept us afloat during a pandemic and is currently on the brink of getting us back to normal.
And so did ours."But we weren't talking about the anerican system. | |||
"Capitalism bashing is trendy these days. What alternative do you suggest? Socialism? Communism? You mean the type of socialism which built the NHS and is currently vaccinating the population? While the NHS workers get paid much less than what a capitalist economy pays for health workers based on supply/demand? I've no idea what that means. If socialism is so abhorrent, I assume you dont use the NHS ? It means that in a free market, employees are paid based on demand/supply. Salary is not forced upon by government orders. Healthcare workers in the US are the highest paid because of that reason. NHS workers in the UK are not pair much for the same reason. Socialism comes at a cost.Medicine and education are absolute necessities for economic mobility. Hence it is fine to make that compromise and use a hybrid of socialist/capitalistic model. And still it is a risk. For when tax payers to non-tax payers ratio goes down, it becomes unsustainable. For rest of the stuff, it is better to let free market handle everything. We have enough examples to show what really happens when you try socialism on everything. Or are you one of those arrogant armchair socialists who has the audacity to claim that "Socialism/Communism was not implemented properly" Of course you know a lot more about socialism than Lenin, Stalin, Che Guevara and Mao. I still dont really know what you are on about. A socialist gmnt built the welfare state. Free health care at the point of service Is about left wing as you can get,so without socialism the nhs wouldnt exist. As for letting the free market decide everything, how is that working out in the states for example?" lmao - except it isn't socialist. | |||
"Capitalism bashing is trendy these days. What alternative do you suggest? Socialism? Communism? You mean the type of socialism which built the NHS and is currently vaccinating the population? While the NHS workers get paid much less than what a capitalist economy pays for health workers based on supply/demand? I've no idea what that means. If socialism is so abhorrent, I assume you dont use the NHS ? It means that in a free market, employees are paid based on demand/supply. Salary is not forced upon by government orders. Healthcare workers in the US are the highest paid because of that reason. NHS workers in the UK are not pair much for the same reason. Socialism comes at a cost.Medicine and education are absolute necessities for economic mobility. Hence it is fine to make that compromise and use a hybrid of socialist/capitalistic model. And still it is a risk. For when tax payers to non-tax payers ratio goes down, it becomes unsustainable. For rest of the stuff, it is better to let free market handle everything. We have enough examples to show what really happens when you try socialism on everything. Or are you one of those arrogant armchair socialists who has the audacity to claim that "Socialism/Communism was not implemented properly" Of course you know a lot more about socialism than Lenin, Stalin, Che Guevara and Mao. I still dont really know what you are on about. A socialist gmnt built the welfare state. Free health care at the point of service Is about left wing as you can get,so without socialism the nhs wouldnt exist. As for letting the free market decide everything, how is that working out in the states for example? lmao - except it isn't socialist. " Just saying nurses have been on the Frontline I personally think they should get paid just like ours do. They worked through the pandemic. | |||
"Capitalism bashing is trendy these days. What alternative do you suggest? Socialism? Communism? You mean the type of socialism which built the NHS and is currently vaccinating the population? While the NHS workers get paid much less than what a capitalist economy pays for health workers based on supply/demand? I've no idea what that means. If socialism is so abhorrent, I assume you dont use the NHS ? It means that in a free market, employees are paid based on demand/supply. Salary is not forced upon by government orders. Healthcare workers in the US are the highest paid because of that reason. NHS workers in the UK are not pair much for the same reason. Socialism comes at a cost.Medicine and education are absolute necessities for economic mobility. Hence it is fine to make that compromise and use a hybrid of socialist/capitalistic model. And still it is a risk. For when tax payers to non-tax payers ratio goes down, it becomes unsustainable. For rest of the stuff, it is better to let free market handle everything. We have enough examples to show what really happens when you try socialism on everything. Or are you one of those arrogant armchair socialists who has the audacity to claim that "Socialism/Communism was not implemented properly" Of course you know a lot more about socialism than Lenin, Stalin, Che Guevara and Mao. I still dont really know what you are on about. A socialist gmnt built the welfare state. Free health care at the point of service Is about left wing as you can get,so without socialism the nhs wouldnt exist. As for letting the free market decide everything, how is that working out in the states for example? lmao - except it isn't socialist. Just saying nurses have been on the Frontline I personally think they should get paid just like ours do. They worked through the pandemic." I agree but the poster was saying what a terrible idea socialism was. A socialist gmnt created a national health system which was meant to be free for all,I was just wondering if it was such a flawed concept,the NHS must be the same. | |||
"Capitalism bashing is trendy these days. What alternative do you suggest? Socialism? Communism? You mean the type of socialism which built the NHS and is currently vaccinating the population? While the NHS workers get paid much less than what a capitalist economy pays for health workers based on supply/demand? I've no idea what that means. If socialism is so abhorrent, I assume you dont use the NHS ? It means that in a free market, employees are paid based on demand/supply. Salary is not forced upon by government orders. Healthcare workers in the US are the highest paid because of that reason. NHS workers in the UK are not pair much for the same reason. Socialism comes at a cost.Medicine and education are absolute necessities for economic mobility. Hence it is fine to make that compromise and use a hybrid of socialist/capitalistic model. And still it is a risk. For when tax payers to non-tax payers ratio goes down, it becomes unsustainable. For rest of the stuff, it is better to let free market handle everything. We have enough examples to show what really happens when you try socialism on everything. Or are you one of those arrogant armchair socialists who has the audacity to claim that "Socialism/Communism was not implemented properly" Of course you know a lot more about socialism than Lenin, Stalin, Che Guevara and Mao. I still dont really know what you are on about. A socialist gmnt built the welfare state. Free health care at the point of service Is about left wing as you can get,so without socialism the nhs wouldnt exist. As for letting the free market decide everything, how is that working out in the states for example?" Welfare state builds on Capitalism and uses some tax to provide certain services. It is not socialism. Socialism is what USSR had. The States are doing much better than they were doing 50 years back. The number of people under poverty line has drastically reduced. Every other statistic like standard of living and happiness index has raised in the past 50 years. Having Universal healthcare would obviously make things better for them. But most people there don't seem to believe in it. | |||
"Is the western curse always wanting more? kids in Africa are whole just playing with a stick and hula hoop, are we lied to as to what we truly need a crave the most as humans, always been led in to the next economy or trend? Frankly, living a Pastoral life is sincerely over-rated, lol. And do remember that a hoop and a stick was once the indicator between rich and poor, too. We also need to stop believing - and stop others having us believe - that everything that happens in poor countries is our fault. If you want to go live in a tree or range the grasslands, that's up to you. Me. I like my Netflix and Disney+. I also owned a hoop (minus the stick) when I was a child.
Sure I was just using them as an example, over rated for who, have you tried it from experience?personally I'd love to live self sustainabley, possibly in a commune and learn mental and emotional mastery. And stay as far away as possible from indulgences. Not likey in todays age sure but even still I'm conscious of it. And plan on visiting a local community in the near future too.
I just find things like lineing up for the latest iPhone, is insanity and like wise they likely think I am insane and we would both probley say each of us is brain washed Yet you spend time on the internet. "As I said it is hard in modern times, yet I am conscious of it. Not only is your phone good for getting your dick wet, it is also a valuable tool for learning, gone are the days of having to sit in a libery or meet scholars or read a book to learn any more. | |||
"Capitalism bashing is trendy these days. What alternative do you suggest? Socialism? Communism? You mean the type of socialism which built the NHS and is currently vaccinating the population? While the NHS workers get paid much less than what a capitalist economy pays for health workers based on supply/demand? I've no idea what that means. If socialism is so abhorrent, I assume you dont use the NHS ? It means that in a free market, employees are paid based on demand/supply. Salary is not forced upon by government orders. Healthcare workers in the US are the highest paid because of that reason. NHS workers in the UK are not pair much for the same reason. Socialism comes at a cost.Medicine and education are absolute necessities for economic mobility. Hence it is fine to make that compromise and use a hybrid of socialist/capitalistic model. And still it is a risk. For when tax payers to non-tax payers ratio goes down, it becomes unsustainable. For rest of the stuff, it is better to let free market handle everything. We have enough examples to show what really happens when you try socialism on everything. Or are you one of those arrogant armchair socialists who has the audacity to claim that "Socialism/Communism was not implemented properly" Of course you know a lot more about socialism than Lenin, Stalin, Che Guevara and Mao. I still dont really know what you are on about. A socialist gmnt built the welfare state. Free health care at the point of service Is about left wing as you can get,so without socialism the nhs wouldnt exist. As for letting the free market decide everything, how is that working out in the states for example? Welfare state builds on Capitalism and uses some tax to provide certain services. It is not socialism. Socialism is what USSR had. The States are doing much better than they were doing 50 years back. The number of people under poverty line has drastically reduced. Every other statistic like standard of living and happiness index has raised in the past 50 years. Having Universal healthcare would obviously make things better for them. But most people there don't seem to believe in it." I have no issues with my insurance. You get what you pay for. I have private and coverage through the veteran administration. | |||
"Capitalism bashing is trendy these days. What alternative do you suggest? Socialism? Communism? You mean the type of socialism which built the NHS and is currently vaccinating the population? While the NHS workers get paid much less than what a capitalist economy pays for health workers based on supply/demand? I've no idea what that means. If socialism is so abhorrent, I assume you dont use the NHS ? It means that in a free market, employees are paid based on demand/supply. Salary is not forced upon by government orders. Healthcare workers in the US are the highest paid because of that reason. NHS workers in the UK are not pair much for the same reason. Socialism comes at a cost.Medicine and education are absolute necessities for economic mobility. Hence it is fine to make that compromise and use a hybrid of socialist/capitalistic model. And still it is a risk. For when tax payers to non-tax payers ratio goes down, it becomes unsustainable. For rest of the stuff, it is better to let free market handle everything. We have enough examples to show what really happens when you try socialism on everything. Or are you one of those arrogant armchair socialists who has the audacity to claim that "Socialism/Communism was not implemented properly" Of course you know a lot more about socialism than Lenin, Stalin, Che Guevara and Mao. I still dont really know what you are on about. A socialist gmnt built the welfare state. Free health care at the point of service Is about left wing as you can get,so without socialism the nhs wouldnt exist. As for letting the free market decide everything, how is that working out in the states for example? Welfare state builds on Capitalism and uses some tax to provide certain services. It is not socialism. Socialism is what USSR had. The States are doing much better than they were doing 50 years back. The number of people under poverty line has drastically reduced. Every other statistic like standard of living and happiness index has raised in the past 50 years. Having Universal healthcare would obviously make things better for them. But most people there don't seem to believe in it." The welfare state is still a socialist idea. Put it this way,if we didnt have the welfare state now,there is not a cat in hells chance ,the current gmnt, or any previous Tory gmnt come to that would propose it. Obviously in 2021 it's a lot more complex,but it was originally seem as a thank you to the people after the horrors of war and a pledge not to go back to the hotrendous living conditions of the 30s. Tories are all about 'choice 'which is obviously more appealing if you have money. | |||
"Capitalism bashing is trendy these days. What alternative do you suggest? Socialism? Communism? You mean the type of socialism which built the NHS and is currently vaccinating the population?" No no fuck that, let's take on Americas capitalism way of doing it and charge everyone for it, make a quick buck and leave you dieing in the waiting room in front of your family, or bankrupt them saving your life and in a years time to come leave them wishing they had let you die because life has become unbareable after selling their assets. What I'm saying is we need a way for society to become wholesome, and complete, a world for all not dog eat dog, where we stamp on people to get higher up the ladder, kick people when they are down and never pick someone up from the shit. I just think the path we are been led Down is the opposite of what human nature really is and its showing I'n the state of the world today, anxiety and fear, mental health are all problems from world we experience. | |||
" I still dont really know what you are on about. A socialist gmnt built the welfare state. Free health care at the point of service Is about left wing as you can get,so without socialism the nhs wouldnt exist. As for letting the free market decide everything, how is that working out in the states for example? Welfare state builds on Capitalism and uses some tax to provide certain services. It is not socialism. Socialism is what USSR had. The States are doing much better than they were doing 50 years back. The number of people under poverty line has drastically reduced. Every other statistic like standard of living and happiness index has raised in the past 50 years. Having Universal healthcare would obviously make things better for them. But most people there don't seem to believe in it. I have no issues with my insurance. You get what you pay for. I have private and coverage through the veteran administration." I understand that. That's what I have heard from most people in the US too. Though I personally prefer NHS type healthcare, I agree with most Americans being happy with their healthcare. There is a trend in Europe to crap on everything American. The media doesn't do any good showing only the bad news happening there and make it look like a war torn nation and people have eventually lost the bigger perspective. | |||
| |||
" I still dont really know what you are on about. A socialist gmnt built the welfare state. Free health care at the point of service Is about left wing as you can get,so without socialism the nhs wouldnt exist. As for letting the free market decide everything, how is that working out in the states for example? Welfare state builds on Capitalism and uses some tax to provide certain services. It is not socialism. Socialism is what USSR had. The States are doing much better than they were doing 50 years back. The number of people under poverty line has drastically reduced. Every other statistic like standard of living and happiness index has raised in the past 50 years. Having Universal healthcare would obviously make things better for them. But most people there don't seem to believe in it. The welfare state is still a socialist idea. Put it this way,if we didnt have the welfare state now,there is not a cat in hells chance ,the current gmnt, or any previous Tory gmnt come to that would propose it. Obviously in 2021 it's a lot more complex,but it was originally seem as a thank you to the people after the horrors of war and a pledge not to go back to the hotrendous living conditions of the 30s. Tories are all about 'choice 'which is obviously more appealing if you have money." Couple of things. 1) I support social welfare for specific things like education and healthcare. But it comes with a compromise. There is a reason why nurses working for NHS get paid less. Because the price is not driven by supply/demand. There is a reason why most medical breakthroughs happen in the US. Having private players makes it easy to get funding for all the research. In that way, the US is basically taking one for the team(Rest of the world) 2) The original post was about talking about moving completely away from capitalism. Would you be happy in a USSR type government? | |||
"Capitalism bashing is trendy these days. What alternative do you suggest? Socialism? Communism? You mean the type of socialism which built the NHS and is currently vaccinating the population? No no fuck that, let's take on Americas capitalism way of doing it and charge everyone for it, make a quick buck and leave you dieing in the waiting room in front of your family, or bankrupt them saving your life and in a years time to come leave them wishing they had let you die because life has become unbareable after selling their assets. What I'm saying is we need a way for society to become wholesome, and complete, a world for all not dog eat dog, where we stamp on people to get higher up the ladder, kick people when they are down and never pick someone up from the shit. I just think the path we are been led Down is the opposite of what human nature really is and its showing I'n the state of the world today, anxiety and fear, mental health are all problems from world we experience." You are paying with taxes. I shouldn't have to pay for others and reduce my salary. Just because I did things in my life that put me in my happiness at where I am at. There everyone accepts the NHS which is perfectly fine. My choices in life gave me what I have now. Capitalism I made a choice and went for those goals without a burden to anyone else. | |||
"Capitalism bashing is trendy these days. What alternative do you suggest? Socialism? Communism? You mean the type of socialism which built the NHS and is currently vaccinating the population? No no fuck that, let's take on Americas capitalism way of doing it and charge everyone for it, make a quick buck and leave you dieing in the waiting room in front of your family, or bankrupt them saving your life and in a years time to come leave them wishing they had let you die because life has become unbareable after selling their assets. What I'm saying is we need a way for society to become wholesome, and complete, a world for all not dog eat dog, where we stamp on people to get higher up the ladder, kick people when they are down and never pick someone up from the shit. I just think the path we are been led Down is the opposite of what human nature really is and its showing I'n the state of the world today, anxiety and fear, mental health are all problems from world we experience." You know the beauty of free market? You can actually try it out if you want. Get a group of people, form a commune, put everything you earn into a common pot and everything gets shared irrespective of what they put inside. While you are at it, given your compassion towards other people, you can actually take some homeless people into your home. I am pretty sure you have some space. What's stopping you from doing that? | |||
"Capitalism bashing is trendy these days. What alternative do you suggest? Socialism? Communism? You mean the type of socialism which built the NHS and is currently vaccinating the population? No no fuck that, let's take on Americas capitalism way of doing it and charge everyone for it, make a quick buck and leave you dieing in the waiting room in front of your family, or bankrupt them saving your life and in a years time to come leave them wishing they had let you die because life has become unbareable after selling their assets. What I'm saying is we need a way for society to become wholesome, and complete, a world for all not dog eat dog, where we stamp on people to get higher up the ladder, kick people when they are down and never pick someone up from the shit. I just think the path we are been led Down is the opposite of what human nature really is and its showing I'n the state of the world today, anxiety and fear, mental health are all problems from world we experience. You are paying with taxes. I shouldn't have to pay for others and reduce my salary. Just because I did things in my life that put me in my happiness at where I am at. There everyone accepts the NHS which is perfectly fine. My choices in life gave me what I have now. Capitalism I made a choice and went for those goals without a burden to anyone else." | |||
" I still dont really know what you are on about. A socialist gmnt built the welfare state. Free health care at the point of service Is about left wing as you can get,so without socialism the nhs wouldnt exist. As for letting the free market decide everything, how is that working out in the states for example? Welfare state builds on Capitalism and uses some tax to provide certain services. It is not socialism. Socialism is what USSR had. The States are doing much better than they were doing 50 years back. The number of people under poverty line has drastically reduced. Every other statistic like standard of living and happiness index has raised in the past 50 years. Having Universal healthcare would obviously make things better for them. But most people there don't seem to believe in it. The welfare state is still a socialist idea. Put it this way,if we didnt have the welfare state now,there is not a cat in hells chance ,the current gmnt, or any previous Tory gmnt come to that would propose it. Obviously in 2021 it's a lot more complex,but it was originally seem as a thank you to the people after the horrors of war and a pledge not to go back to the hotrendous living conditions of the 30s. Tories are all about 'choice 'which is obviously more appealing if you have money. Couple of things. 1) I support social welfare for specific things like education and healthcare. But it comes with a compromise. There is a reason why nurses working for NHS get paid less. Because the price is not driven by supply/demand. There is a reason why most medical breakthroughs happen in the US. Having private players makes it easy to get funding for all the research. In that way, the US is basically taking one for the team(Rest of the world) 2) The original post was about talking about moving completely away from capitalism. Would you be happy in a USSR type government?" But is it not true if there was not a capitalistic greed the little money they did have would be more then enough for everything they needed I'm general. I mean take for instance the guy who brought the manufacturing license for the antiparasitic drug Daraprim. He changed the price of a tablet that was $12.50 per pill to $750 per pill, that Is capitalistic greed at its best, but you know what it's perfect market sense. But it's terrible humanity. | |||
" I still dont really know what you are on about. A socialist gmnt built the welfare state. Free health care at the point of service Is about left wing as you can get,so without socialism the nhs wouldnt exist. As for letting the free market decide everything, how is that working out in the states for example? Welfare state builds on Capitalism and uses some tax to provide certain services. It is not socialism. Socialism is what USSR had. The States are doing much better than they were doing 50 years back. The number of people under poverty line has drastically reduced. Every other statistic like standard of living and happiness index has raised in the past 50 years. Having Universal healthcare would obviously make things better for them. But most people there don't seem to believe in it. The welfare state is still a socialist idea. Put it this way,if we didnt have the welfare state now,there is not a cat in hells chance ,the current gmnt, or any previous Tory gmnt come to that would propose it. Obviously in 2021 it's a lot more complex,but it was originally seem as a thank you to the people after the horrors of war and a pledge not to go back to the hotrendous living conditions of the 30s. Tories are all about 'choice 'which is obviously more appealing if you have money. Couple of things. 1) I support social welfare for specific things like education and healthcare. But it comes with a compromise. There is a reason why nurses working for NHS get paid less. Because the price is not driven by supply/demand. There is a reason why most medical breakthroughs happen in the US. Having private players makes it easy to get funding for all the research. In that way, the US is basically taking one for the team(Rest of the world) 2) The original post was about talking about moving completely away from capitalism. Would you be happy in a USSR type government?" I think the counties which seem to get it right,Appear to be the scandi countries where there is a healthy mix of socialism and capitalism. It's no surprise that those countries are a lot more progressive and the people there a lot happier. Also if you look at Germany ,I remember reading the unions and bosses have a close working relationship, whereas here tories see workers rights as a dirty word. | |||
"Capitalism bashing is trendy these days. What alternative do you suggest? Socialism? Communism? You mean the type of socialism which built the NHS and is currently vaccinating the population? No no fuck that, let's take on Americas capitalism way of doing it and charge everyone for it, make a quick buck and leave you dieing in the waiting room in front of your family, or bankrupt them saving your life and in a years time to come leave them wishing they had let you die because life has become unbareable after selling their assets. What I'm saying is we need a way for society to become wholesome, and complete, a world for all not dog eat dog, where we stamp on people to get higher up the ladder, kick people when they are down and never pick someone up from the shit. I just think the path we are been led Down is the opposite of what human nature really is and its showing I'n the state of the world today, anxiety and fear, mental health are all problems from world we experience. You are paying with taxes. I shouldn't have to pay for others and reduce my salary. Just because I did things in my life that put me in my happiness at where I am at. There everyone accepts the NHS which is perfectly fine. My choices in life gave me what I have now. Capitalism I made a choice and went for those goals without a burden to anyone else." Your happiness should be making other people more happy, instead of careing only about your self, these big corporate one percent of the world have enough to stop world poverty, and hunger in an instant and still live comfortably with more money then what we see in a life time. But without the hood the posh houses wouldn't be higher, and without poor there wouldn't be rich, they keep us in a system that just doesn't work. | |||
"Capitalism bashing is trendy these days. What alternative do you suggest? Socialism? Communism? You mean the type of socialism which built the NHS and is currently vaccinating the population? No no fuck that, let's take on Americas capitalism way of doing it and charge everyone for it, make a quick buck and leave you dieing in the waiting room in front of your family, or bankrupt them saving your life and in a years time to come leave them wishing they had let you die because life has become unbareable after selling their assets. What I'm saying is we need a way for society to become wholesome, and complete, a world for all not dog eat dog, where we stamp on people to get higher up the ladder, kick people when they are down and never pick someone up from the shit. I just think the path we are been led Down is the opposite of what human nature really is and its showing I'n the state of the world today, anxiety and fear, mental health are all problems from world we experience. You are paying with taxes. I shouldn't have to pay for others and reduce my salary. Just because I did things in my life that put me in my happiness at where I am at. There everyone accepts the NHS which is perfectly fine. My choices in life gave me what I have now. Capitalism I made a choice and went for those goals without a burden to anyone else." Want if you have worked all your life and lose your job? | |||
"Capitalism bashing is trendy these days. What alternative do you suggest? Socialism? Communism? You mean the type of socialism which built the NHS and is currently vaccinating the population? No no fuck that, let's take on Americas capitalism way of doing it and charge everyone for it, make a quick buck and leave you dieing in the waiting room in front of your family, or bankrupt them saving your life and in a years time to come leave them wishing they had let you die because life has become unbareable after selling their assets. What I'm saying is we need a way for society to become wholesome, and complete, a world for all not dog eat dog, where we stamp on people to get higher up the ladder, kick people when they are down and never pick someone up from the shit. I just think the path we are been led Down is the opposite of what human nature really is and its showing I'n the state of the world today, anxiety and fear, mental health are all problems from world we experience. You know the beauty of free market? You can actually try it out if you want. Get a group of people, form a commune, put everything you earn into a common pot and everything gets shared irrespective of what they put inside. While you are at it, given your compassion towards other people, you can actually take some homeless people into your home. I am pretty sure you have some space. What's stopping you from doing that?" I have given homeless a place to stay before, and helped out if different ways I could. Sometimes people just need to have the spark reignited and realise some one I the whole world actually cares | |||
" I still dont really know what you are on about. A socialist gmnt built the welfare state. Free health care at the point of service Is about left wing as you can get,so without socialism the nhs wouldnt exist. As for letting the free market decide everything, how is that working out in the states for example? Welfare state builds on Capitalism and uses some tax to provide certain services. It is not socialism. Socialism is what USSR had. The States are doing much better than they were doing 50 years back. The number of people under poverty line has drastically reduced. Every other statistic like standard of living and happiness index has raised in the past 50 years. Having Universal healthcare would obviously make things better for them. But most people there don't seem to believe in it. The welfare state is still a socialist idea. Put it this way,if we didnt have the welfare state now,there is not a cat in hells chance ,the current gmnt, or any previous Tory gmnt come to that would propose it. Obviously in 2021 it's a lot more complex,but it was originally seem as a thank you to the people after the horrors of war and a pledge not to go back to the hotrendous living conditions of the 30s. Tories are all about 'choice 'which is obviously more appealing if you have money. Couple of things. 1) I support social welfare for specific things like education and healthcare. But it comes with a compromise. There is a reason why nurses working for NHS get paid less. Because the price is not driven by supply/demand. There is a reason why most medical breakthroughs happen in the US. Having private players makes it easy to get funding for all the research. In that way, the US is basically taking one for the team(Rest of the world) 2) The original post was about talking about moving completely away from capitalism. Would you be happy in a USSR type government? But is it not true if there was not a capitalistic greed the little money they did have would be more then enough for everything they needed I'm general. I mean take for instance the guy who brought the manufacturing license for the antiparasitic drug Daraprim. He changed the price of a tablet that was $12.50 per pill to $750 per pill, that Is capitalistic greed at its best, but you know what it's perfect market sense. But it's terrible humanity. " What did boris johnson reportedly say about greed recently? | |||
| |||
" I still dont really know what you are on about. A socialist gmnt built the welfare state. Free health care at the point of service Is about left wing as you can get,so without socialism the nhs wouldnt exist. As for letting the free market decide everything, how is that working out in the states for example? Welfare state builds on Capitalism and uses some tax to provide certain services. It is not socialism. Socialism is what USSR had. The States are doing much better than they were doing 50 years back. The number of people under poverty line has drastically reduced. Every other statistic like standard of living and happiness index has raised in the past 50 years. Having Universal healthcare would obviously make things better for them. But most people there don't seem to believe in it. The welfare state is still a socialist idea. Put it this way,if we didnt have the welfare state now,there is not a cat in hells chance ,the current gmnt, or any previous Tory gmnt come to that would propose it. Obviously in 2021 it's a lot more complex,but it was originally seem as a thank you to the people after the horrors of war and a pledge not to go back to the hotrendous living conditions of the 30s. Tories are all about 'choice 'which is obviously more appealing if you have money. Couple of things. 1) I support social welfare for specific things like education and healthcare. But it comes with a compromise. There is a reason why nurses working for NHS get paid less. Because the price is not driven by supply/demand. There is a reason why most medical breakthroughs happen in the US. Having private players makes it easy to get funding for all the research. In that way, the US is basically taking one for the team(Rest of the world) 2) The original post was about talking about moving completely away from capitalism. Would you be happy in a USSR type government? But is it not true if there was not a capitalistic greed the little money they did have would be more then enough for everything they needed I'm general. I mean take for instance the guy who brought the manufacturing license for the antiparasitic drug Daraprim. He changed the price of a tablet that was $12.50 per pill to $750 per pill, that Is capitalistic greed at its best, but you know what it's perfect market sense. But it's terrible humanity. What did boris johnson reportedly say about greed recently?" I have no idea but sharing is caring and who ever said other wise is a greedy cunt lol | |||
| |||
"Capitalism bashing is trendy these days. What alternative do you suggest? Socialism? Communism? You mean the type of socialism which built the NHS and is currently vaccinating the population? No no fuck that, let's take on Americas capitalism way of doing it and charge everyone for it, make a quick buck and leave you dieing in the waiting room in front of your family, or bankrupt them saving your life and in a years time to come leave them wishing they had let you die because life has become unbareable after selling their assets. What I'm saying is we need a way for society to become wholesome, and complete, a world for all not dog eat dog, where we stamp on people to get higher up the ladder, kick people when they are down and never pick someone up from the shit. I just think the path we are been led Down is the opposite of what human nature really is and its showing I'n the state of the world today, anxiety and fear, mental health are all problems from world we experience. You are paying with taxes. I shouldn't have to pay for others and reduce my salary. Just because I did things in my life that put me in my happiness at where I am at. There everyone accepts the NHS which is perfectly fine. My choices in life gave me what I have now. Capitalism I made a choice and went for those goals without a burden to anyone else. Want if you have worked all your life and lose your job?" then I find another or take a early retirement because I invested. Hubby retired military and works not one for staying home . Savings 401k and other investments. Not that hard to plan. | |||
"https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-56504546.amp" Ah yes now It's coming back to me, I do rember this popping up somewhere lol | |||
"Capitalism bashing is trendy these days. What alternative do you suggest? Socialism? Communism? You mean the type of socialism which built the NHS and is currently vaccinating the population? No no fuck that, let's take on Americas capitalism way of doing it and charge everyone for it, make a quick buck and leave you dieing in the waiting room in front of your family, or bankrupt them saving your life and in a years time to come leave them wishing they had let you die because life has become unbareable after selling their assets. What I'm saying is we need a way for society to become wholesome, and complete, a world for all not dog eat dog, where we stamp on people to get higher up the ladder, kick people when they are down and never pick someone up from the shit. I just think the path we are been led Down is the opposite of what human nature really is and its showing I'n the state of the world today, anxiety and fear, mental health are all problems from world we experience. You are paying with taxes. I shouldn't have to pay for others and reduce my salary. Just because I did things in my life that put me in my happiness at where I am at. There everyone accepts the NHS which is perfectly fine. My choices in life gave me what I have now. Capitalism I made a choice and went for those goals without a burden to anyone else. Want if you have worked all your life and lose your job? then I find another or take a early retirement because I invested. Hubby retired military and works not one for staying home . Savings 401k and other investments. Not that hard to plan." If you are on a minimum wage job and can just about to feed your kids. What do you "invest 'exactly? | |||
"Capitalism bashing is trendy these days. What alternative do you suggest? Socialism? Communism? You mean the type of socialism which built the NHS and is currently vaccinating the population? No no fuck that, let's take on Americas capitalism way of doing it and charge everyone for it, make a quick buck and leave you dieing in the waiting room in front of your family, or bankrupt them saving your life and in a years time to come leave them wishing they had let you die because life has become unbareable after selling their assets. What I'm saying is we need a way for society to become wholesome, and complete, a world for all not dog eat dog, where we stamp on people to get higher up the ladder, kick people when they are down and never pick someone up from the shit. I just think the path we are been led Down is the opposite of what human nature really is and its showing I'n the state of the world today, anxiety and fear, mental health are all problems from world we experience. You are paying with taxes. I shouldn't have to pay for others and reduce my salary. Just because I did things in my life that put me in my happiness at where I am at. There everyone accepts the NHS which is perfectly fine. My choices in life gave me what I have now. Capitalism I made a choice and went for those goals without a burden to anyone else. Want if you have worked all your life and lose your job? then I find another or take a early retirement because I invested. Hubby retired military and works not one for staying home . Savings 401k and other investments. Not that hard to plan. If you are on a minimum wage job and can just about to feed your kids. What do you "invest 'exactly?" There is outlets to a better life. Now isn't there. Can't tell me otherwise I come from a family of 8 that struggled growing up. It's called applying yourself. What wrong with military service? GI bill? Free healthcare ? Capitalism only works if you want it to. | |||
"Capitalism bashing is trendy these days. What alternative do you suggest? Socialism? Communism? You mean the type of socialism which built the NHS and is currently vaccinating the population? No no fuck that, let's take on Americas capitalism way of doing it and charge everyone for it, make a quick buck and leave you dieing in the waiting room in front of your family, or bankrupt them saving your life and in a years time to come leave them wishing they had let you die because life has become unbareable after selling their assets. What I'm saying is we need a way for society to become wholesome, and complete, a world for all not dog eat dog, where we stamp on people to get higher up the ladder, kick people when they are down and never pick someone up from the shit. I just think the path we are been led Down is the opposite of what human nature really is and its showing I'n the state of the world today, anxiety and fear, mental health are all problems from world we experience. You know the beauty of free market? You can actually try it out if you want. Get a group of people, form a commune, put everything you earn into a common pot and everything gets shared irrespective of what they put inside. While you are at it, given your compassion towards other people, you can actually take some homeless people into your home. I am pretty sure you have some space. What's stopping you from doing that? I have given homeless a place to stay before, and helped out if different ways I could. Sometimes people just need to have the spark reignited and realise some one I the whole world actually cares" Helped out all ways you could? There are still many homeless outside. You can take them in. Why waste time and money on swingers site? Use it to help others. Instead of preaching others about being greedy, why not practice what you preach? | |||
"Capitalism bashing is trendy these days. What alternative do you suggest? Socialism? Communism? You mean the type of socialism which built the NHS and is currently vaccinating the population? No no fuck that, let's take on Americas capitalism way of doing it and charge everyone for it, make a quick buck and leave you dieing in the waiting room in front of your family, or bankrupt them saving your life and in a years time to come leave them wishing they had let you die because life has become unbareable after selling their assets. What I'm saying is we need a way for society to become wholesome, and complete, a world for all not dog eat dog, where we stamp on people to get higher up the ladder, kick people when they are down and never pick someone up from the shit. I just think the path we are been led Down is the opposite of what human nature really is and its showing I'n the state of the world today, anxiety and fear, mental health are all problems from world we experience." This world you want to live in dosent exist and never will.well mabey if there was a massive cull of the human race it could mabey work but failing that not a hope in hell of the world ever existing | |||
" I think the counties which seem to get it right,Appear to be the scandi countries where there is a healthy mix of socialism and capitalism. It's no surprise that those countries are a lot more progressive and the people there a lot happier. Also if you look at Germany ,I remember reading the unions and bosses have a close working relationship, whereas here tories see workers rights as a dirty word. " Ah. The Scandinavian comparison. Do you know that even middle class people pay higher tax in Sweden and Denmark? For example, in Sweden, the Swedish Krona equivalent of salary above 43,000 GBP is taxed at over 50% tax. Are you willing to pay that extra tax to foot the bill? Or is it going to be a typical socialist response of "Why should I? Those reach people should pay for it." | |||
"Capitalism bashing is trendy these days. What alternative do you suggest? Socialism? Communism? You mean the type of socialism which built the NHS and is currently vaccinating the population? No no fuck that, let's take on Americas capitalism way of doing it and charge everyone for it, make a quick buck and leave you dieing in the waiting room in front of your family, or bankrupt them saving your life and in a years time to come leave them wishing they had let you die because life has become unbareable after selling their assets. What I'm saying is we need a way for society to become wholesome, and complete, a world for all not dog eat dog, where we stamp on people to get higher up the ladder, kick people when they are down and never pick someone up from the shit. I just think the path we are been led Down is the opposite of what human nature really is and its showing I'n the state of the world today, anxiety and fear, mental health are all problems from world we experience. You know the beauty of free market? You can actually try it out if you want. Get a group of people, form a commune, put everything you earn into a common pot and everything gets shared irrespective of what they put inside. While you are at it, given your compassion towards other people, you can actually take some homeless people into your home. I am pretty sure you have some space. What's stopping you from doing that? I have given homeless a place to stay before, and helped out if different ways I could. Sometimes people just need to have the spark reignited and realise some one I the whole world actually cares Helped out all ways you could? There are still many homeless outside. You can take them in. Why waste time and money on swingers site? Use it to help others. Instead of preaching others about being greedy, why not practice what you preach?" I'm not preaching I'm instigating an intellectual conversation, I'm not shitting on anyones views i respect them fully I just enjoy playing the devil's advocate, and have you checked my subscription status? Non existent, and because my circumstances have changed after becoming homeless my self for over 2 months, after leaving a tenancy had for 8 years, after I moved in with an ex who had lived with me for over 3 years, we broke up i was homeless, lost my job, my home, my car, .y motorbike everything I had worked up up until that point, and I.workwd fickimg hard. and have no family to turn to as I come from the care system. Care homes etc. | |||
"Capitalism bashing is trendy these days. What alternative do you suggest? Socialism? Communism? You mean the type of socialism which built the NHS and is currently vaccinating the population? No no fuck that, let's take on Americas capitalism way of doing it and charge everyone for it, make a quick buck and leave you dieing in the waiting room in front of your family, or bankrupt them saving your life and in a years time to come leave them wishing they had let you die because life has become unbareable after selling their assets. What I'm saying is we need a way for society to become wholesome, and complete, a world for all not dog eat dog, where we stamp on people to get higher up the ladder, kick people when they are down and never pick someone up from the shit. I just think the path we are been led Down is the opposite of what human nature really is and its showing I'n the state of the world today, anxiety and fear, mental health are all problems from world we experience. This world you want to live in dosent exist and never will.well mabey if there was a massive cull of the human race it could mabey work but failing that not a hope in hell of the world ever existing" A cull of the human race, covid will sort that nicely xD | |||
"Capitalism bashing is trendy these days. What alternative do you suggest? Socialism? Communism? You mean the type of socialism which built the NHS and is currently vaccinating the population? No no fuck that, let's take on Americas capitalism way of doing it and charge everyone for it, make a quick buck and leave you dieing in the waiting room in front of your family, or bankrupt them saving your life and in a years time to come leave them wishing they had let you die because life has become unbareable after selling their assets. What I'm saying is we need a way for society to become wholesome, and complete, a world for all not dog eat dog, where we stamp on people to get higher up the ladder, kick people when they are down and never pick someone up from the shit. I just think the path we are been led Down is the opposite of what human nature really is and its showing I'n the state of the world today, anxiety and fear, mental health are all problems from world we experience. You know the beauty of free market? You can actually try it out if you want. Get a group of people, form a commune, put everything you earn into a common pot and everything gets shared irrespective of what they put inside. While you are at it, given your compassion towards other people, you can actually take some homeless people into your home. I am pretty sure you have some space. What's stopping you from doing that? I have given homeless a place to stay before, and helped out if different ways I could. Sometimes people just need to have the spark reignited and realise some one I the whole world actually cares Helped out all ways you could? There are still many homeless outside. You can take them in. Why waste time and money on swingers site? Use it to help others. Instead of preaching others about being greedy, why not practice what you preach? I'm not preaching I'm instigating an intellectual conversation, I'm not shitting on anyones views i respect them fully I just enjoy playing the devil's advocate, and have you checked my subscription status? Non existent, and because my circumstances have changed after becoming homeless my self for over 2 months, after leaving a tenancy had for 8 years, after I moved in with an ex who had lived with me for over 3 years, we broke up i was homeless, lost my job, my home, my car, .y motorbike everything I had worked up up until that point, and I.workwd fickimg hard. and have no family to turn to as I come from the care system. Care homes etc." Excuse my typeos I'm in a rush to go for a cycle. | |||
| |||
"To me capitalism works.I shake my head at people screaming they are in dire straights yet they buying xboxs play stations 1000 dollar I phones designer clothes and shoes. Instead of investing in things more beneficial like a house some land or schooling. I am a jeans and T shirt girl. Nothing wrong with capitalism from what I see here atleast something totally different in regards to personal wealth gain." Indeed 100% agree but this is what this post was orginaly leading towards, we are made to feel we need the next thing, adverts shoved in front of us any waking moment, as our human nature is exploited we are made to want these things regardless of our financial situation, in the pursuit of happiness not realising none of it is bringing them happiness but instead putting themselvs in a bigger hole, or possibly in debt, which the governmentment, or capitalistic company will love when they inflate the debt with late payment fees etc. | |||
"Capitalism bashing is trendy these days. What alternative do you suggest? Socialism? Communism? You mean the type of socialism which built the NHS and is currently vaccinating the population? No no fuck that, let's take on Americas capitalism way of doing it and charge everyone for it, make a quick buck and leave you dieing in the waiting room in front of your family, or bankrupt them saving your life and in a years time to come leave them wishing they had let you die because life has become unbareable after selling their assets. What I'm saying is we need a way for society to become wholesome, and complete, a world for all not dog eat dog, where we stamp on people to get higher up the ladder, kick people when they are down and never pick someone up from the shit. I just think the path we are been led Down is the opposite of what human nature really is and its showing I'n the state of the world today, anxiety and fear, mental health are all problems from world we experience. You are paying with taxes. I shouldn't have to pay for others and reduce my salary. Just because I did things in my life that put me in my happiness at where I am at. There everyone accepts the NHS which is perfectly fine. My choices in life gave me what I have now. Capitalism I made a choice and went for those goals without a burden to anyone else. Want if you have worked all your life and lose your job? then I find another or take a early retirement because I invested. Hubby retired military and works not one for staying home . Savings 401k and other investments. Not that hard to plan. If you are on a minimum wage job and can just about to feed your kids. What do you "invest 'exactly? There is outlets to a better life. Now isn't there. Can't tell me otherwise I come from a family of 8 that struggled growing up. It's called applying yourself. What wrong with military service? GI bill? Free healthcare ? Capitalism only works if you want it to." You are right. The ones at the top.are there through sheer hard work and talent(I mean just look at our pm)and those at the bottom are lazy. Its that simple | |||
" I think the counties which seem to get it right,Appear to be the scandi countries where there is a healthy mix of socialism and capitalism. It's no surprise that those countries are a lot more progressive and the people there a lot happier. Also if you look at Germany ,I remember reading the unions and bosses have a close working relationship, whereas here tories see workers rights as a dirty word. Ah. The Scandinavian comparison. Do you know that even middle class people pay higher tax in Sweden and Denmark? For example, in Sweden, the Swedish Krona equivalent of salary above 43,000 GBP is taxed at over 50% tax. Are you willing to pay that extra tax to foot the bill? Or is it going to be a typical socialist response of "Why should I? Those reach people should pay for it."" A typical socialist response is why should I? Are you sure about that? I'd say it was a typical Tory response | |||
"To me capitalism works.I shake my head at people screaming they are in dire straights yet they buying xboxs play stations 1000 dollar I phones designer clothes and shoes. Instead of investing in things more beneficial like a house some land or schooling. I am a jeans and T shirt girl. Nothing wrong with capitalism from what I see here atleast something totally different in regards to personal wealth gain. Indeed 100% agree but this is what this post was orginaly leading towards, we are made to feel we need the next thing, adverts shoved in front of us any waking moment, as our human nature is exploited we are made to want these things regardless of our financial situation, in the pursuit of happiness not realising none of it is bringing them happiness but instead putting themselvs in a bigger hole, or possibly in debt, which the governmentment, or capitalistic company will love when they inflate the debt with late payment fees etc." Some want the next best thing. But some people can't turn around and scream poverty when they listen to commercials and buy a Gucci handbag then blame my choices and my life for their problems. A 5.00 handbag works as well as a 2000 dollar one. | |||
"To me capitalism works.I shake my head at people screaming they are in dire straights yet they buying xboxs play stations 1000 dollar I phones designer clothes and shoes. Instead of investing in things more beneficial like a house some land or schooling. I am a jeans and T shirt girl. Nothing wrong with capitalism from what I see here atleast something totally different in regards to personal wealth gain. Indeed 100% agree but this is what this post was orginaly leading towards, we are made to feel we need the next thing, adverts shoved in front of us any waking moment, as our human nature is exploited we are made to want these things regardless of our financial situation, in the pursuit of happiness not realising none of it is bringing them happiness but instead putting themselvs in a bigger hole, or possibly in debt, which the governmentment, or capitalistic company will love when they inflate the debt with late payment fees etc. Some want the next best thing. But some people can't turn around and scream poverty when they listen to commercials and buy a Gucci handbag then blame my choices and my life for their problems. A 5.00 handbag works as well as a 2000 dollar one." Absolutely | |||
"To me capitalism works.I shake my head at people screaming they are in dire straights yet they buying xboxs play stations 1000 dollar I phones designer clothes and shoes. Instead of investing in things more beneficial like a house some land or schooling. I am a jeans and T shirt girl. Nothing wrong with capitalism from what I see here atleast something totally different in regards to personal wealth gain. Indeed 100% agree but this is what this post was orginaly leading towards, we are made to feel we need the next thing, adverts shoved in front of us any waking moment, as our human nature is exploited we are made to want these things regardless of our financial situation, in the pursuit of happiness not realising none of it is bringing them happiness but instead putting themselvs in a bigger hole, or possibly in debt, which the governmentment, or capitalistic company will love when they inflate the debt with late payment fees etc. Some want the next best thing. But some people can't turn around and scream poverty when they listen to commercials and buy a Gucci handbag then blame my choices and my life for their problems. A 5.00 handbag works as well as a 2000 dollar one. Absolutely " But should exploiting human nature be aloud, we are subconsciously triggerd by a vast multitude of things. | |||
"To me capitalism works.I shake my head at people screaming they are in dire straights yet they buying xboxs play stations 1000 dollar I phones designer clothes and shoes. Instead of investing in things more beneficial like a house some land or schooling. I am a jeans and T shirt girl. Nothing wrong with capitalism from what I see here atleast something totally different in regards to personal wealth gain. Indeed 100% agree but this is what this post was orginaly leading towards, we are made to feel we need the next thing, adverts shoved in front of us any waking moment, as our human nature is exploited we are made to want these things regardless of our financial situation, in the pursuit of happiness not realising none of it is bringing them happiness but instead putting themselvs in a bigger hole, or possibly in debt, which the governmentment, or capitalistic company will love when they inflate the debt with late payment fees etc. Some want the next best thing. But some people can't turn around and scream poverty when they listen to commercials and buy a Gucci handbag then blame my choices and my life for their problems. A 5.00 handbag works as well as a 2000 dollar one. Absolutely But should exploiting human nature be aloud, we are subconsciously triggerd by a vast multitude of things." It would be more beneficial to worry about your well being than others because if you choose that Gucci bag over personal well being. That is a self inflicted bad choice on your part not mine. | |||
"To me capitalism works.I shake my head at people screaming they are in dire straights yet they buying xboxs play stations 1000 dollar I phones designer clothes and shoes. Instead of investing in things more beneficial like a house some land or schooling. I am a jeans and T shirt girl. Nothing wrong with capitalism from what I see here atleast something totally different in regards to personal wealth gain. Indeed 100% agree but this is what this post was orginaly leading towards, we are made to feel we need the next thing, adverts shoved in front of us any waking moment, as our human nature is exploited we are made to want these things regardless of our financial situation, in the pursuit of happiness not realising none of it is bringing them happiness but instead putting themselvs in a bigger hole, or possibly in debt, which the governmentment, or capitalistic company will love when they inflate the debt with late payment fees etc. Some want the next best thing. But some people can't turn around and scream poverty when they listen to commercials and buy a Gucci handbag then blame my choices and my life for their problems. A 5.00 handbag works as well as a 2000 dollar one. Absolutely But should exploiting human nature be aloud, we are subconsciously triggerd by a vast multitude of things." My Husbands Sister was quite a Hippy when he was young. He remembers her telling him that: 'All we need is to have food, clothes and warmth!' He also remembers that her clothes were from Chelsea Girl. Their food came from Tesco & Sainsbury's. And they had a coal and log burning fire and Oil Central heating. Dad drove a 2.5 litre car, and they all lived in rather a very large house lol. So much for all those 'we only needs' to live an Earth Calm life. | |||
" I think the counties which seem to get it right,Appear to be the scandi countries where there is a healthy mix of socialism and capitalism. It's no surprise that those countries are a lot more progressive and the people there a lot happier. Also if you look at Germany ,I remember reading the unions and bosses have a close working relationship, whereas here tories see workers rights as a dirty word. Ah. The Scandinavian comparison. Do you know that even middle class people pay higher tax in Sweden and Denmark? For example, in Sweden, the Swedish Krona equivalent of salary above 43,000 GBP is taxed at over 50% tax. Are you willing to pay that extra tax to foot the bill? Or is it going to be a typical socialist response of "Why should I? Those reach people should pay for it." A typical socialist response is why should I? Are you sure about that? I'd say it was a typical Tory response " So what exactly is your response? Are you willing to pay 52% tax for all you earn over 45000 Pounds? And it doesn't get better for the lower income earners too. Flat 32% for any income below that. Will you happily pay all that tax? | |||
"To me capitalism works.I shake my head at people screaming they are in dire straights yet they buying xboxs play stations 1000 dollar I phones designer clothes and shoes. Instead of investing in things more beneficial like a house some land or schooling. I am a jeans and T shirt girl. Nothing wrong with capitalism from what I see here atleast something totally different in regards to personal wealth gain. Indeed 100% agree but this is what this post was orginaly leading towards, we are made to feel we need the next thing, adverts shoved in front of us any waking moment, as our human nature is exploited we are made to want these things regardless of our financial situation, in the pursuit of happiness not realising none of it is bringing them happiness but instead putting themselvs in a bigger hole, or possibly in debt, which the governmentment, or capitalistic company will love when they inflate the debt with late payment fees etc. Some want the next best thing. But some people can't turn around and scream poverty when they listen to commercials and buy a Gucci handbag then blame my choices and my life for their problems. A 5.00 handbag works as well as a 2000 dollar one. Absolutely But should exploiting human nature be aloud, we are subconsciously triggerd by a vast multitude of things." Not everyone has that exploitation.Its not governments duty to tell you have to live. Don't you think it's a individual choice? Not that hard to just say no to stupid purchases. Then tweet from a 1000 dollar IPhone that capitalism sucks while sipping on a Starbuck latte while getting your nails done. | |||
"Capitalism bashing is trendy these days. What alternative do you suggest? Socialism? Communism? You mean the type of socialism which built the NHS and is currently vaccinating the population? No no fuck that, let's take on Americas capitalism way of doing it and charge everyone for it, make a quick buck and leave you dieing in the waiting room in front of your family, or bankrupt them saving your life and in a years time to come leave them wishing they had let you die because life has become unbareable after selling their assets. What I'm saying is we need a way for society to become wholesome, and complete, a world for all not dog eat dog, where we stamp on people to get higher up the ladder, kick people when they are down and never pick someone up from the shit. I just think the path we are been led Down is the opposite of what human nature really is and its showing I'n the state of the world today, anxiety and fear, mental health are all problems from world we experience. You know the beauty of free market? You can actually try it out if you want. Get a group of people, form a commune, put everything you earn into a common pot and everything gets shared irrespective of what they put inside. While you are at it, given your compassion towards other people, you can actually take some homeless people into your home. I am pretty sure you have some space. What's stopping you from doing that? I have given homeless a place to stay before, and helped out if different ways I could. Sometimes people just need to have the spark reignited and realise some one I the whole world actually cares Helped out all ways you could? There are still many homeless outside. You can take them in. Why waste time and money on swingers site? Use it to help others. Instead of preaching others about being greedy, why not practice what you preach? I'm not preaching I'm instigating an intellectual conversation, I'm not shitting on anyones views i respect them fully I just enjoy playing the devil's advocate, and have you checked my subscription status? Non existent, and because my circumstances have changed after becoming homeless my self for over 2 months, after leaving a tenancy had for 8 years, after I moved in with an ex who had lived with me for over 3 years, we broke up i was homeless, lost my job, my home, my car, .y motorbike everything I had worked up up until that point, and I.workwd fickimg hard. and have no family to turn to as I come from the care system. Care homes etc." Sorry about that. I understand why things can be frustrating. I obviously don't know all the hardships you faced. The thing is capitalism is not perfect. But it has also given us plenty of development in the last few decades than any other system we have tried in the history. Everything from child mortality to deaths by hunger, starvation have reduced ever since the two world wars. Yes, it can look like people's nature for needing more has been exploited. It is eventually upto people. I personally lead a life where I spend much less on material aspects and more on experiences. The point is everyone has a choice. Every other system boils down to encroachment into individual freedom. Capitalism is not perfect. But it's the best we have got. | |||
"Capitalism bashing is trendy these days. What alternative do you suggest? Socialism? Communism? You mean the type of socialism which built the NHS and is currently vaccinating the population? No no fuck that, let's take on Americas capitalism way of doing it and charge everyone for it, make a quick buck and leave you dieing in the waiting room in front of your family, or bankrupt them saving your life and in a years time to come leave them wishing they had let you die because life has become unbareable after selling their assets. What I'm saying is we need a way for society to become wholesome, and complete, a world for all not dog eat dog, where we stamp on people to get higher up the ladder, kick people when they are down and never pick someone up from the shit. I just think the path we are been led Down is the opposite of what human nature really is and its showing I'n the state of the world today, anxiety and fear, mental health are all problems from world we experience. You know the beauty of free market? You can actually try it out if you want. Get a group of people, form a commune, put everything you earn into a common pot and everything gets shared irrespective of what they put inside. While you are at it, given your compassion towards other people, you can actually take some homeless people into your home. I am pretty sure you have some space. What's stopping you from doing that? I have given homeless a place to stay before, and helped out if different ways I could. Sometimes people just need to have the spark reignited and realise some one I the whole world actually cares Helped out all ways you could? There are still many homeless outside. You can take them in. Why waste time and money on swingers site? Use it to help others. Instead of preaching others about being greedy, why not practice what you preach? I'm not preaching I'm instigating an intellectual conversation, I'm not shitting on anyones views i respect them fully I just enjoy playing the devil's advocate, and have you checked my subscription status? Non existent, and because my circumstances have changed after becoming homeless my self for over 2 months, after leaving a tenancy had for 8 years, after I moved in with an ex who had lived with me for over 3 years, we broke up i was homeless, lost my job, my home, my car, .y motorbike everything I had worked up up until that point, and I.workwd fickimg hard. and have no family to turn to as I come from the care system. Care homes etc. Sorry about that. I understand why things can be frustrating. I obviously don't know all the hardships you faced. The thing is capitalism is not perfect. But it has also given us plenty of development in the last few decades than any other system we have tried in the history. Everything from child mortality to deaths by hunger, starvation have reduced ever since the two world wars. Yes, it can look like people's nature for needing more has been exploited. It is eventually upto people. I personally lead a life where I spend much less on material aspects and more on experiences. The point is everyone has a choice. Every other system boils down to encroachment into individual freedom. Capitalism is not perfect. But it's the best we have got." And I'd say you have a good out look on life and are clearly intellectual | |||
" I think the counties which seem to get it right,Appear to be the scandi countries where there is a healthy mix of socialism and capitalism. It's no surprise that those countries are a lot more progressive and the people there a lot happier. Also if you look at Germany ,I remember reading the unions and bosses have a close working relationship, whereas here tories see workers rights as a dirty word. Ah. The Scandinavian comparison. Do you know that even middle class people pay higher tax in Sweden and Denmark? For example, in Sweden, the Swedish Krona equivalent of salary above 43,000 GBP is taxed at over 50% tax. Are you willing to pay that extra tax to foot the bill? Or is it going to be a typical socialist response of "Why should I? Those reach people should pay for it." A typical socialist response is why should I? Are you sure about that? I'd say it was a typical Tory response So what exactly is your response? Are you willing to pay 52% tax for all you earn over 45000 Pounds? And it doesn't get better for the lower income earners too. Flat 32% for any income below that. Will you happily pay all that tax?" So you admit your assumption was wrong? Are the wages not quite high in Scandinavian programme? | |||
" I think the counties which seem to get it right,Appear to be the scandi countries where there is a healthy mix of socialism and capitalism. It's no surprise that those countries are a lot more progressive and the people there a lot happier. Also if you look at Germany ,I remember reading the unions and bosses have a close working relationship, whereas here tories see workers rights as a dirty word. Ah. The Scandinavian comparison. Do you know that even middle class people pay higher tax in Sweden and Denmark? For example, in Sweden, the Swedish Krona equivalent of salary above 43,000 GBP is taxed at over 50% tax. Are you willing to pay that extra tax to foot the bill? Or is it going to be a typical socialist response of "Why should I? Those reach people should pay for it." A typical socialist response is why should I? Are you sure about that? I'd say it was a typical Tory response So what exactly is your response? Are you willing to pay 52% tax for all you earn over 45000 Pounds? And it doesn't get better for the lower income earners too. Flat 32% for any income below that. Will you happily pay all that tax? So you admit your assumption was wrong? Are the wages not quite high in Scandinavian programme?" What assumption was wrong? I told that if you want Scandinavian type of social welfare, you should be willing to pay those high taxes. 32% for salaries less than 45K and 52% for the earnings above it. Everytime I bring this up to the arm chair socialists, their answer is usually something around the lines of "I don't have to pay for it. There are the millionaires out there. Let's tax them alone more." Just a simple math shows that it's not enough. Everyone from low wage earners to middle class will have to pay lot more taxes they pay in the UK. I have asked you twice so far about your own willingness to pay more taxes and you have never answered it. Sweden doesn't have minimum wage for the country. Usually unions negotiate it with the employers. And no. Their wages are not higher compared to the UK. Most wages for similar type of jobs are same across both the countries. | |||
" I think the counties which seem to get it right,Appear to be the scandi countries where there is a healthy mix of socialism and capitalism. It's no surprise that those countries are a lot more progressive and the people there a lot happier. Also if you look at Germany ,I remember reading the unions and bosses have a close working relationship, whereas here tories see workers rights as a dirty word. Ah. The Scandinavian comparison. Do you know that even middle class people pay higher tax in Sweden and Denmark? For example, in Sweden, the Swedish Krona equivalent of salary above 43,000 GBP is taxed at over 50% tax. Are you willing to pay that extra tax to foot the bill? Or is it going to be a typical socialist response of "Why should I? Those reach people should pay for it." A typical socialist response is why should I? Are you sure about that? I'd say it was a typical Tory response So what exactly is your response? Are you willing to pay 52% tax for all you earn over 45000 Pounds? And it doesn't get better for the lower income earners too. Flat 32% for any income below that. Will you happily pay all that tax? So you admit your assumption was wrong? Are the wages not quite high in Scandinavian programme? What assumption was wrong? I told that if you want Scandinavian type of social welfare, you should be willing to pay those high taxes. 32% for salaries less than 45K and 52% for the earnings above it. Everytime I bring this up to the arm chair socialists, their answer is usually something around the lines of "I don't have to pay for it. There are the millionaires out there. Let's tax them alone more." Just a simple math shows that it's not enough. Everyone from low wage earners to middle class will have to pay lot more taxes they pay in the UK. I have asked you twice so far about your own willingness to pay more taxes and you have never answered it. Sweden doesn't have minimum wage for the country. Usually unions negotiate it with the employers. And no. Their wages are not higher compared to the UK. Most wages for similar type of jobs are same across both the countries." According to statista 3 Scandinavian countries are in the top 10 highest in Europe The uk is 11th. I think everyone should pay their fair share in tax. | |||
| |||
" I think the counties which seem to get it right,Appear to be the scandi countries where there is a healthy mix of socialism and capitalism. It's no surprise that those countries are a lot more progressive and the people there a lot happier. Also if you look at Germany ,I remember reading the unions and bosses have a close working relationship, whereas here tories see workers rights as a dirty word. Ah. The Scandinavian comparison. Do you know that even middle class people pay higher tax in Sweden and Denmark? For example, in Sweden, the Swedish Krona equivalent of salary above 43,000 GBP is taxed at over 50% tax. Are you willing to pay that extra tax to foot the bill? Or is it going to be a typical socialist response of "Why should I? Those reach people should pay for it." A typical socialist response is why should I? Are you sure about that? I'd say it was a typical Tory response So what exactly is your response? Are you willing to pay 52% tax for all you earn over 45000 Pounds? And it doesn't get better for the lower income earners too. Flat 32% for any income below that. Will you happily pay all that tax? So you admit your assumption was wrong? Are the wages not quite high in Scandinavian programme? What assumption was wrong? I told that if you want Scandinavian type of social welfare, you should be willing to pay those high taxes. 32% for salaries less than 45K and 52% for the earnings above it. Everytime I bring this up to the arm chair socialists, their answer is usually something around the lines of "I don't have to pay for it. There are the millionaires out there. Let's tax them alone more." Just a simple math shows that it's not enough. Everyone from low wage earners to middle class will have to pay lot more taxes they pay in the UK. I have asked you twice so far about your own willingness to pay more taxes and you have never answered it. Sweden doesn't have minimum wage for the country. Usually unions negotiate it with the employers. And no. Their wages are not higher compared to the UK. Most wages for similar type of jobs are same across both the countries." How are you so versed in Scandinavian legislations? Out of curiousty iv never heard of this if I'm homest | |||
| |||
"Is the western curse always wanting more? kids in Africa are whole just playing with a stick and hula hoop, are we lied to as to what we truly need a crave the most as humans, always been led in to the next economy or trend? Frankly, living a Pastoral life is sincerely over-rated, lol. And do remember that a hoop and a stick was once the indicator between rich and poor, too. We also need to stop believing - and stop others having us believe - that everything that happens in poor countries is our fault. If you want to go live in a tree or range the grasslands, that's up to you. Me. I like my Netflix and Disney+. I also owned a hoop (minus the stick) when I was a child.
Sure I was just using them as an example, over rated for who, have you tried it from experience?personally I'd love to live self sustainabley, possibly in a commune and learn mental and emotional mastery. And stay as far away as possible from indulgences. Not likey in todays age sure but even still I'm conscious of it. And plan on visiting a local community in the near future too.
I just find things like lineing up for the latest iPhone, is insanity and like wise they likely think I am insane and we would both probley say each of us is brain washed "A great perspective | |||
" I think the counties which seem to get it right,Appear to be the scandi countries where there is a healthy mix of socialism and capitalism. It's no surprise that those countries are a lot more progressive and the people there a lot happier. Also if you look at Germany ,I remember reading the unions and bosses have a close working relationship, whereas here tories see workers rights as a dirty word. Ah. The Scandinavian comparison. Do you know that even middle class people pay higher tax in Sweden and Denmark? For example, in Sweden, the Swedish Krona equivalent of salary above 43,000 GBP is taxed at over 50% tax. Are you willing to pay that extra tax to foot the bill? Or is it going to be a typical socialist response of "Why should I? Those reach people should pay for it." A typical socialist response is why should I? Are you sure about that? I'd say it was a typical Tory response So what exactly is your response? Are you willing to pay 52% tax for all you earn over 45000 Pounds? And it doesn't get better for the lower income earners too. Flat 32% for any income below that. Will you happily pay all that tax? So you admit your assumption was wrong? Are the wages not quite high in Scandinavian programme? What assumption was wrong? I told that if you want Scandinavian type of social welfare, you should be willing to pay those high taxes. 32% for salaries less than 45K and 52% for the earnings above it. Everytime I bring this up to the arm chair socialists, their answer is usually something around the lines of "I don't have to pay for it. There are the millionaires out there. Let's tax them alone more." Just a simple math shows that it's not enough. Everyone from low wage earners to middle class will have to pay lot more taxes they pay in the UK. I have asked you twice so far about your own willingness to pay more taxes and you have never answered it. Sweden doesn't have minimum wage for the country. Usually unions negotiate it with the employers. And no. Their wages are not higher compared to the UK. Most wages for similar type of jobs are same across both the countries." I am a socialist.. I am willing to pay whatever tax it takes to make sure necessities such as healthcare, housing, unemployment/sickness benefits etc... Are available if/when needed by whoever needs them, not just myself... Unfortunately it seems alot don't want to pay more tax and want to pick and choose who deserves help and who doesn't... Usually until their own circumstances change for the worse, then bitch about not being able to get any help because things have been cut due to underfunding... Go figure! Or vote in someone with any fucking competence | |||
" I think the counties which seem to get it right,Appear to be the scandi countries where there is a healthy mix of socialism and capitalism. It's no surprise that those countries are a lot more progressive and the people there a lot happier. Also if you look at Germany ,I remember reading the unions and bosses have a close working relationship, whereas here tories see workers rights as a dirty word. Ah. The Scandinavian comparison. Do you know that even middle class people pay higher tax in Sweden and Denmark? For example, in Sweden, the Swedish Krona equivalent of salary above 43,000 GBP is taxed at over 50% tax. Are you willing to pay that extra tax to foot the bill? Or is it going to be a typical socialist response of "Why should I? Those reach people should pay for it." A typical socialist response is why should I? Are you sure about that? I'd say it was a typical Tory response So what exactly is your response? Are you willing to pay 52% tax for all you earn over 45000 Pounds? And it doesn't get better for the lower income earners too. Flat 32% for any income below that. Will you happily pay all that tax? So you admit your assumption was wrong? Are the wages not quite high in Scandinavian programme? What assumption was wrong? I told that if you want Scandinavian type of social welfare, you should be willing to pay those high taxes. 32% for salaries less than 45K and 52% for the earnings above it. Everytime I bring this up to the arm chair socialists, their answer is usually something around the lines of "I don't have to pay for it. There are the millionaires out there. Let's tax them alone more." Just a simple math shows that it's not enough. Everyone from low wage earners to middle class will have to pay lot more taxes they pay in the UK. I have asked you twice so far about your own willingness to pay more taxes and you have never answered it. Sweden doesn't have minimum wage for the country. Usually unions negotiate it with the employers. And no. Their wages are not higher compared to the UK. Most wages for similar type of jobs are same across both the countries. I am a socialist.. I am willing to pay whatever tax it takes to make sure necessities such as healthcare, housing, unemployment/sickness benefits etc... Are available if/when needed by whoever needs them, not just myself... Unfortunately it seems alot don't want to pay more tax and want to pick and choose who deserves help and who doesn't... Usually until their own circumstances change for the worse, then bitch about not being able to get any help because things have been cut due to underfunding... Go figure! Or vote in someone with any fucking competence " “ vote in someone with any fucking competence” Who do you suggest ? | |||
| |||
" I think the counties which seem to get it right,Appear to be the scandi countries where there is a healthy mix of socialism and capitalism. It's no surprise that those countries are a lot more progressive and the people there a lot happier. Also if you look at Germany ,I remember reading the unions and bosses have a close working relationship, whereas here tories see workers rights as a dirty word. Ah. The Scandinavian comparison. Do you know that even middle class people pay higher tax in Sweden and Denmark? For example, in Sweden, the Swedish Krona equivalent of salary above 43,000 GBP is taxed at over 50% tax. Are you willing to pay that extra tax to foot the bill? Or is it going to be a typical socialist response of "Why should I? Those reach people should pay for it." A typical socialist response is why should I? Are you sure about that? I'd say it was a typical Tory response So what exactly is your response? Are you willing to pay 52% tax for all you earn over 45000 Pounds? And it doesn't get better for the lower income earners too. Flat 32% for any income below that. Will you happily pay all that tax? So you admit your assumption was wrong? Are the wages not quite high in Scandinavian programme? What assumption was wrong? I told that if you want Scandinavian type of social welfare, you should be willing to pay those high taxes. 32% for salaries less than 45K and 52% for the earnings above it. Everytime I bring this up to the arm chair socialists, their answer is usually something around the lines of "I don't have to pay for it. There are the millionaires out there. Let's tax them alone more." Just a simple math shows that it's not enough. Everyone from low wage earners to middle class will have to pay lot more taxes they pay in the UK. I have asked you twice so far about your own willingness to pay more taxes and you have never answered it. Sweden doesn't have minimum wage for the country. Usually unions negotiate it with the employers. And no. Their wages are not higher compared to the UK. Most wages for similar type of jobs are same across both the countries. How are you so versed in Scandinavian legislations? Out of curiousty iv never heard of this if I'm homest" I once got a job offer from Sweden that paid about 10% less than what I get in London. I thought I could maybe save more if cost of living is lesser there and did some research. Turns out I will end up spending a lot more on taxes and cost of living in Stockholm was only a little bit less than London. | |||
" I am a socialist.. I am willing to pay whatever tax it takes to make sure necessities such as healthcare, housing, unemployment/sickness benefits etc... Are available if/when needed by whoever needs them, not just myself... Unfortunately it seems alot don't want to pay more tax and want to pick and choose who deserves help and who doesn't... Usually until their own circumstances change for the worse, then bitch about not being able to get any help because things have been cut due to underfunding... Go figure! Or vote in someone with any fucking competence " Exactly. I don't believe in socialism. I think social welfare on education and healthcare have been good things though. But I admire socialists like you who aren't hypocritical. Unfortunately, most of the socialists I have come across are. They try to milk out every tax rebate the government has announced, cry when there is news about potential tax increase and then complain about lack of social welfare like that of Scandinavia. Reason is simple. They did not become socialists because of their compassion towards the poor but because of their envy towards the rich. Socialism is just a way for them to sugar coat and justify their envy. They keep talking about how billionaires should never exist but have no clue about how much funding we would get by increasing the tax only on them. As you said, if someone wants better social welfare, he/she needs to be ready to shell out more money on tax even if they are earning less salary. I don't think anyone is ready for that. | |||
| |||
"The people who complain about not paying any more tax are almost to a man,tories or right wingers. They will complain about immigrants or scroungers (the tax payers alliance is almost the perfect example of this,a group of middle class tories who whings about the tax they pay,and are oblivious to the fact that most people pay tax) Given the opportunity most would fuck free education,health care off and go private To a man most socialist would happily pay more tax if it meant a fairer society,as thus is one of the core principles of socialism. However as we have seen Tories cant help themselves for blaming everyone else for their inept failings and are prone to making widely inaccurate sweeping generalizations. " Says a man making a "sweeping generalisation"! There is no such thing as "more tax" rather its "right tax". Many at the bottom of the social scale, pay little or no tax and that is right. If as a country, we decide that we want improved social care etc, then everyone must be prepared to pay for it, and 2p on the rate of income tax is perfectly acceptable. I'm sure that its the first thing that any incoming Labour government will be implementing, if its not already been done by then. | |||
"The people who complain about not paying any more tax are almost to a man,tories or right wingers. They will complain about immigrants or scroungers (the tax payers alliance is almost the perfect example of this,a group of middle class tories who whings about the tax they pay,and are oblivious to the fact that most people pay tax) Given the opportunity most would fuck free education,health care off and go private To a man most socialist would happily pay more tax if it meant a fairer society,as thus is one of the core principles of socialism. However as we have seen Tories cant help themselves for blaming everyone else for their inept failings and are prone to making widely inaccurate sweeping generalizations. Says a man making a "sweeping generalisation"! There is no such thing as "more tax" rather its "right tax". Many at the bottom of the social scale, pay little or no tax and that is right. If as a country, we decide that we want improved social care etc, then everyone must be prepared to pay for it, and 2p on the rate of income tax is perfectly acceptable. I'm sure that its the first thing that any incoming Labour government will be implementing, if its not already been done by then. " What's the left wing version of the tax payers alliance? | |||
"The people who complain about not paying any more tax are almost to a man,tories or right wingers. They will complain about immigrants or scroungers (the tax payers alliance is almost the perfect example of this,a group of middle class tories who whings about the tax they pay,and are oblivious to the fact that most people pay tax) Given the opportunity most would fuck free education,health care off and go private To a man most socialist would happily pay more tax if it meant a fairer society,as thus is one of the core principles of socialism. However as we have seen Tories cant help themselves for blaming everyone else for their inept failings and are prone to making widely inaccurate sweeping generalizations. " Why do you even bring in Tories/Labour into every discussion? Can you get out of your polarised mindset at least once? It is funny when you blame others for generalisation while you make the same mistake yourself. In the UK, there is no tax upto 12,500 pounds and just 20% from there till 50K. If you want Scandinavian type welfare, all these low wage earners will obviously have to pay more taxes. You still haven't admitted that you would happily pay the extra tax yourself. About immigrants, there are one group of immigrants coming in with a job, usually better paying ones and they pay taxes. Then there are refugees who most probably did not have good education to get jobs which pay high enough for them to contribute to taxes. The reason why European left wing parties' vote-banks are split into two is because of this basic contradiction. They want better social welfare for working class while also wanting to take in more refugees that will stress out the same social welfare that they are supporting. But they never told us any clear answer on where the money is going to come from, other than "Let's tax the rich" when every layman knows it is not going to be enough. The funny thing is that open borders is a libertarian principle which free market supporters should ideally support. They can say "We are open to letting you into the country. But remember that you are on your own. We are not going to look after you. You have to build your life yourself." But they don't care for it either. Are you even surprised that the only left wing party that is ruling and still has the same popularity is Denmark's Social Democratic party? They are the only left wing party who understood this basic contradiction. They have strict handling of asylum seekers. All the other parties have already been defeated or just ruling while they have lost popularity to their right wing counterparts. | |||
| |||
"The people who complain about not paying any more tax are almost to a man,tories or right wingers. They will complain about immigrants or scroungers (the tax payers alliance is almost the perfect example of this,a group of middle class tories who whings about the tax they pay,and are oblivious to the fact that most people pay tax) Given the opportunity most would fuck free education,health care off and go private To a man most socialist would happily pay more tax if it meant a fairer society,as thus is one of the core principles of socialism. However as we have seen Tories cant help themselves for blaming everyone else for their inept failings and are prone to making widely inaccurate sweeping generalizations. Says a man making a "sweeping generalisation"! There is no such thing as "more tax" rather its "right tax". Many at the bottom of the social scale, pay little or no tax and that is right. If as a country, we decide that we want improved social care etc, then everyone must be prepared to pay for it, and 2p on the rate of income tax is perfectly acceptable. I'm sure that its the first thing that any incoming Labour government will be implementing, if its not already been done by then. " Many seem they would be happy to pay more tax but just how much more? As we all have access to things like the NHS then maybe the percentage increase should be the same for all. So if we keep the tax free 12,500 but increase all the other bands by say 10% (so you end up with 30,50 and 55%) would this be an acceptable amount? I think the odd couple of percent here and there would not be enough to make the difference requested but I'm far from an economist | |||
"Because you claimed socialists are the only group who whinge about paying more tax. The tories have traditionally been seen as the 'low tax 'party whilst labour are viewed as raising taxes when they got in.Hence the number of rich people who have said they will leave the country if they get in. Which blows your assumption out of the water. I have already stated I would pay more tax in a fairer system " Can you point me where I said socialists are the "only" group that whines about paying tax? Both the groups whine about it. At least capitalists have less hypocrisy in their arguments. They don't care for social welfare and would not want to pay high taxes while socialists keep asking for more social welfare while not willing to pay more taxes themselves. You seem to be imagining stuff I never said and arguing with that. | |||
"Because you claimed socialists are the only group who whinge about paying more tax. The tories have traditionally been seen as the 'low tax 'party whilst labour are viewed as raising taxes when they got in.Hence the number of rich people who have said they will leave the country if they get in. Which blows your assumption out of the water. I have already stated I would pay more tax in a fairer system Can you point me where I said socialists are the "only" group that whines about paying tax? Both the groups whine about it. At least capitalists have less hypocrisy in their arguments. They don't care for social welfare and would not want to pay high taxes while socialists keep asking for more social welfare while not willing to pay more taxes themselves. You seem to be imagining stuff I never said and arguing with that." Thats pretty normal mate, welcome to the madhouse. | |||
" I think the counties which seem to get it right,Appear to be the scandi countries where there is a healthy mix of socialism and capitalism. It's no surprise that those countries are a lot more progressive and the people there a lot happier. Also if you look at Germany ,I remember reading the unions and bosses have a close working relationship, whereas here tories see workers rights as a dirty word. Ah. The Scandinavian comparison. Do you know that even middle class people pay higher tax in Sweden and Denmark? For example, in Sweden, the Swedish Krona equivalent of salary above 43,000 GBP is taxed at over 50% tax. Are you willing to pay that extra tax to foot the bill? Or is it going to be a typical socialist response of "Why should I? Those reach people should pay for it." A typical socialist response is why should I? Are you sure about that? I'd say it was a typical Tory response So what exactly is your response? Are you willing to pay 52% tax for all you earn over 45000 Pounds? And it doesn't get better for the lower income earners too. Flat 32% for any income below that. Will you happily pay all that tax? So you admit your assumption was wrong? Are the wages not quite high in Scandinavian programme? What assumption was wrong? I told that if you want Scandinavian type of social welfare, you should be willing to pay those high taxes. 32% for salaries less than 45K and 52% for the earnings above it. Everytime I bring this up to the arm chair socialists, their answer is usually something around the lines of "I don't have to pay for it. There are the millionaires out there. Let's tax them alone more." Just a simple math shows that it's not enough. Everyone from low wage earners to middle class will have to pay lot more taxes they pay in the UK. I have asked you twice so far about your own willingness to pay more taxes and you have never answered it. Sweden doesn't have minimum wage for the country. Usually unions negotiate it with the employers. And no. Their wages are not higher compared to the UK. Most wages for similar type of jobs are same across both the countries." You certainly dont seem to be providing a "bad as each other 'argument here, Those on the right are much more likely to be inclined to be opposed to contributing more tax and I've provided several examples to back this up. Those on the left do,in the main, see the importance of supporting the NHS etc and realise this would have to be paid for. I'm not tax expert but it does seem that a lot of people who are more wealthy,would try as hard as they can to pay as little tax as possible. | |||
" I think the counties which seem to get it right,Appear to be the scandi countries where there is a healthy mix of socialism and capitalism. It's no surprise that those countries are a lot more progressive and the people there a lot happier. Also if you look at Germany ,I remember reading the unions and bosses have a close working relationship, whereas here tories see workers rights as a dirty word. Ah. The Scandinavian comparison. Do you know that even middle class people pay higher tax in Sweden and Denmark? For example, in Sweden, the Swedish Krona equivalent of salary above 43,000 GBP is taxed at over 50% tax. Are you willing to pay that extra tax to foot the bill? Or is it going to be a typical socialist response of "Why should I? Those reach people should pay for it." A typical socialist response is why should I? Are you sure about that? I'd say it was a typical Tory response So what exactly is your response? Are you willing to pay 52% tax for all you earn over 45000 Pounds? And it doesn't get better for the lower income earners too. Flat 32% for any income below that. Will you happily pay all that tax? So you admit your assumption was wrong? Are the wages not quite high in Scandinavian programme? What assumption was wrong? I told that if you want Scandinavian type of social welfare, you should be willing to pay those high taxes. 32% for salaries less than 45K and 52% for the earnings above it. Everytime I bring this up to the arm chair socialists, their answer is usually something around the lines of "I don't have to pay for it. There are the millionaires out there. Let's tax them alone more." Just a simple math shows that it's not enough. Everyone from low wage earners to middle class will have to pay lot more taxes they pay in the UK. I have asked you twice so far about your own willingness to pay more taxes and you have never answered it. Sweden doesn't have minimum wage for the country. Usually unions negotiate it with the employers. And no. Their wages are not higher compared to the UK. Most wages for similar type of jobs are same across both the countries. You certainly dont seem to be providing a "bad as each other 'argument here, Those on the right are much more likely to be inclined to be opposed to contributing more tax and I've provided several examples to back this up. Those on the left do,in the main, see the importance of supporting the NHS etc and realise this would have to be paid for. I'm not tax expert but it does seem that a lot of people who are more wealthy,would try as hard as they can to pay as little tax as possible. " Thats pretty standard for wealthy people. Some work damn hard for their wealth, others less so. But for a Socialist Shadow Chancellor like John McDonell, who when pressed on how their manifesto list was going to be funded, just trotted out "we're going to tax the rich", its neither attractive, fair or workable. Wealthy people employ the best accountants, they flirt with tax avoidance, and their was never a certainty that the money would ever be raised. | |||
| |||
"Is the western curse always wanting more? kids in Africa are whole just playing with a stick and hula hoop, are we lied to as to what we truly need a crave the most as humans, always been led in to the next economy or trend? " Capitalism is not about contentment. It's based on creating demand which is the same as discontent. There are many, many studies which conclude that once basic needs are met like;safety, food, housing, health care and education, then more "stuff" doesn't increase your happiness. Wanting something and then obtaining it only gives you transient pleasure. Then you want the next thing. Contentment? Well, that's a whole different world view. That's the source of that interesting quote that you provided. | |||
"The NHS is not a result of socialism? Right. Seems to work for the rest of Europe too. Check out life expectancy rates and costs of treament come back on that one. Of course, if you only treat those who can pay high fees, then you pay higher salaries..." Exactly spent 4 years getting my degree busted my ass working a job too.My salary reflects the accomplishment I have done. This is why socialized medicine will not happen in the US. You will have people quitting the system for higher paying jobs. | |||
"The NHS is not a result of socialism? Right. Seems to work for the rest of Europe too. Check out life expectancy rates and costs of treament come back on that one. Of course, if you only treat those who can pay high fees, then you pay higher salaries... Exactly spent 4 years getting my degree busted my ass working a job too.My salary reflects the accomplishment I have done. This is why socialized medicine will not happen in the US. You will have people quitting the system for higher paying jobs." You didn't really address any of the points made, did you? Medical staff here are underpaid. So are carers and cleaners. How much do care workers and cleaners paid in the US? Cooks? Waiters? We should probably pay a bit more for things. I don't actively want to, but if taxes and prices go up and that's what it pays for, then fair enough. | |||
| |||
"A regulated capitalism built the NHS... Labour wasn't and isn't a socialist party.. it's s social democrat party that after world war 2 was deployed to counter communism (like most European social democrat parties). " ...and there is the semantics. Someone on. This thread has said exactly the opposite. If the state use public spending to benefit society rather than individual property, then it's socialist. | |||
"The NHS is not a result of socialism? Right. Seems to work for the rest of Europe too. Check out life expectancy rates and costs of treament come back on that one. Of course, if you only treat those who can pay high fees, then you pay higher salaries... Exactly spent 4 years getting my degree busted my ass working a job too.My salary reflects the accomplishment I have done. This is why socialized medicine will not happen in the US. You will have people quitting the system for higher paying jobs. You didn't really address any of the points made, did you? Medical staff here are underpaid. So are carers and cleaners. How much do care workers and cleaners paid in the US? Cooks? Waiters? We should probably pay a bit more for things. I don't actively want to, but if taxes and prices go up and that's what it pays for, then fair enough." People outside of state-run services get paid based on supply/demand. That's a fair and easy way to run an economy. "We should pay a more" is not a way to sustain or develop an economy. | |||
"The NHS is not a result of socialism? Right. Seems to work for the rest of Europe too. Check out life expectancy rates and costs of treament come back on that one. Of course, if you only treat those who can pay high fees, then you pay higher salaries... Exactly spent 4 years getting my degree busted my ass working a job too.My salary reflects the accomplishment I have done. This is why socialized medicine will not happen in the US. You will have people quitting the system for higher paying jobs. You didn't really address any of the points made, did you? Medical staff here are underpaid. So are carers and cleaners. How much do care workers and cleaners paid in the US? Cooks? Waiters? We should probably pay a bit more for things. I don't actively want to, but if taxes and prices go up and that's what it pays for, then fair enough." So to your point I should give up 70k a year to help the less fortunate that the majority can do if they put thier mind and fortitude to it. That is a fair and equitable assumption in your mind. So my struggle to achieve is a moot point to get where I am at so long as a waiter gets the same. | |||
| |||
"Ban money, swap a rabbit for a cabbage and potatoes and 2 beers is an hours digging..... it's a cow to get on an aeroplane.... the logistics won't be easy lol but the will fuck the stock markets lol" Haha quality | |||
"Ban money, swap a rabbit for a cabbage and potatoes and 2 beers is an hours digging..... it's a cow to get on an aeroplane.... the logistics won't be easy lol but the will fuck the stock markets lol" I can hunt rabbits grow cabbage but they are not sustainable assets in today's society. Hosenfeffer is tasty but it not going to pay my mortgage. | |||
"A regulated capitalism built the NHS... Labour wasn't and isn't a socialist party.. it's s social democrat party that after world war 2 was deployed to counter communism (like most European social democrat parties). " Free healthcare for all is a socialist policy. There are and always have been,socialists in the labour party. | |||
| |||
"Just where is it that people think that Healthcare in this country is free? " its free if your not paying taxes other than that its being paid for by everyone earning more than 12500 quid a yea | |||
"Just where is it that people think that Healthcare in this country is free? its free if your not paying taxes other than that its being paid for by everyone earning more than 12500 quid a yea"Not free then. | |||
"The NHS is not a result of socialism? Right. Seems to work for the rest of Europe too. Check out life expectancy rates and costs of treament come back on that one. Of course, if you only treat those who can pay high fees, then you pay higher salaries... Exactly spent 4 years getting my degree busted my ass working a job too.My salary reflects the accomplishment I have done. This is why socialized medicine will not happen in the US. You will have people quitting the system for higher paying jobs. You didn't really address any of the points made, did you? Medical staff here are underpaid. So are carers and cleaners. How much do care workers and cleaners paid in the US? Cooks? Waiters? We should probably pay a bit more for things. I don't actively want to, but if taxes and prices go up and that's what it pays for, then fair enough. So to your point I should give up 70k a year to help the less fortunate that the majority can do if they put thier mind and fortitude to it. That is a fair and equitable assumption in your mind. So my struggle to achieve is a moot point to get where I am at so long as a waiter gets the same." No one's asked you to "give up" 70k. You keep treating the rich people who can afford to pay for your services. How does public and private education work? You have, by now, looked up the life expectancy and treatment costs of USA vs an equivalent "socialist" country and didn't like the answer. Society/government decides how much they want to spend on services to keep a poor child with leukemia alive and pay appropriately. Perhaps it's 70k for the nursing staff, perhaps it isn't. Capitalism and supply and demand I dicage that the posts won't get filled if they aren't paying enough. I think that a fair and equitable system is one in which a poor child is as likely to receive good quality treatment for a serious medical condition as a wealthy child. That's a socialist policy within a capitalist system. How would you like the scenario above to work out? | |||
"Just where is it that people think that Healthcare in this country is free? its free if your not paying taxes other than that its being paid for by everyone earning more than 12500 quid a yea
Not free then."Semantics to "win" an argument. What for? Will the ability of someone to pay for health care affect the treatment that they receive? The service is free. The provision is not. | |||
| |||
"A regulated capitalism built the NHS... Labour wasn't and isn't a socialist party.. it's s social democrat party that after world war 2 was deployed to counter communism (like most European social democrat parties). " The Labour Party was not created by some agency to "counter Communism". It grew out of the trade union movement. Working people using collective action to improve their lives in the face of exploitation by their employers. Ultimately, if you really believe that Communism forced capitalism to provide basic health care, education and employment rights then hooray to Communism which has done its job as a bogeyman. Not that Communism was ever truly in ace anywhere. It always became a centralised dictatorship as does the extreme end of capitalism. | |||
" The service is free. The provision is not. Semantics to try and win the same arguement? If it's paid for with taxation (money) then it's clearly not free." Well done. You've won. You've just agreed | |||
"Just where is it that people think that Healthcare in this country is free? its free if your not paying taxes other than that its being paid for by everyone earning more than 12500 quid a yea
Not free then.
Semantics to "win" an argument.
What for?
Will the ability of someone to pay for health care affect the treatment that they receive?
The service is free. The provision is not."So. Semantics to try and win the same argument? If it's paid for with taxation (money) then it's clearly not free. The Health service is paid for from General Taxation, only around 20% comes from NI contributions. Every time anyone spends money, they will generally find that it attracts a taxation of some kind and taxation by proportion that finds its way into the NHS. | |||
"Just where is it that people think that Healthcare in this country is free? its free if your not paying taxes other than that its being paid for by everyone earning more than 12500 quid a yea"It's free at point of service | |||
| |||
"Just where is it that people think that Healthcare in this country is free? its free if your not paying taxes other than that its being paid for by everyone earning more than 12500 quid a yea
Not free then.
Semantics to "win" an argument.
What for?
Will the ability of someone to pay for health care affect the treatment that they receive?
The service is free. The provision is not."Because labour created it and they cant accept it. The tories would never in a million years create the nhs ,yet its still much easier to rip into labour. And somehow the lying buffoon gets full credit for the rollout . Self awareness is a foreign concept on here | |||
" The service is free. The provision is not. Semantics to try and win the same arguement? If it's paid for with taxation (money) then it's clearly not free. Well done. You've won. You've just agreed "It's even more funny when they rant out about much they despise socialism and you point out that rollout is about as central planning as you can get. | |||
" The tories would never in a million years create the nhs ,yet its still much easier to rip into labour. " Bollix to that sentence lmao. It doesn't matter for a second who created it. It's still not a free service. And I, for one, am glad it's there and that it was created, I'm also glad to contribute to it. The health service has long been a political football that isn't helped by just merely stating that it was created by a Labour Government. | |||
"The sentence which is most often used to say that the NHS is FREE - it's not." That's why the word "semantics" is used to describe the interpretation. Are you saying that you do not agree? That the service is free for an individual to access but its provision has a cost. Is it free to walk along a pavement on a public street? Arguing to be "right" is fine, but it does not add any value here unless there is a wider point about the contrast between the need for things created in capitalism and the contentment with what is necessary in other societies. | |||
| |||
"The sentence which is most often used to say that the NHS is FREE - it's not. That's why the word "semantics" is used to describe the interpretation. Are you saying that you do not agree? That the service is free for an individual to access but its provision has a cost. Is it free to walk along a pavement on a public street? Arguing to be "right" is fine, but it does not add any value here unless there is a wider point about the contrast between the need for things created in capitalism and the contentment with what is necessary in other societies." I think only you are arguing to be right - me I'm just having a discussion. No. It's not free to walk along a pavement - generally it's upkeep is taken from your local and national council taxes. | |||
"The sentence which is most often used to say that the NHS is FREE - it's not. That's why the word "semantics" is used to describe the interpretation. Are you saying that you do not agree? That the service is free for an individual to access but its provision has a cost. Is it free to walk along a pavement on a public street? Arguing to be "right" is fine, but it does not add any value here unless there is a wider point about the contrast between the need for things created in capitalism and the contentment with what is necessary in other societies." Ask yourself this. If the tories created the nhs would they be arguing the toss that a national health service, where treatment is free at the point of service, is technically not free,as it has to be paid for? | |||
"And now the NHS wasnt created by labour. "Where exactly does anyone say that? | |||
"Just where is it that people think that Healthcare in this country is free? its free if your not paying taxes other than that its being paid for by everyone earning more than 12500 quid a yea"It's often forgotten that its not just people working and earning but almost everyone as many items you buy are taxed. The more you earn and spend the more you pay. What's reassuring is you get treated regardless of how much you have paid in | |||
"The sentence which is most often used to say that the NHS is FREE - it's not. That's why the word "semantics" is used to describe the interpretation. Are you saying that you do not agree? That the service is free for an individual to access but its provision has a cost. Is it free to walk along a pavement on a public street? Arguing to be "right" is fine, but it does not add any value here unless there is a wider point about the contrast between the need for things created in capitalism and the contentment with what is necessary in other societies. Ask yourself this. If the tories created the nhs would they be arguing the toss that a national health service, where treatment is free at the point of service, is technically not free,as it has to be paid for?" The simple - I mean really simple - point is this. People keep saying that the NHS is FREE - it's Not. | |||
"Just where is it that people think that Healthcare in this country is free? its free if your not paying taxes other than that its being paid for by everyone earning more than 12500 quid a yea
It's often forgotten that its not just people working and earning but almost everyone as many items you buy are taxed. The more you earn and spend the more you pay. What's reassuring is you get treated regardless of how much you have paid in" | |||
| |||
"Just where is it that people think that Healthcare in this country is free? its free if your not paying taxes other than that its being paid for by everyone earning more than 12500 quid a yea
It's often forgotten that its not just people working and earning but almost everyone as many items you buy are taxed. The more you earn and spend the more you pay. What's reassuring is you get treated regardless of how much you have paid in"Of course a national health service costing billions has to be paid for..but I could have a life saving operation today and it wouldnt cost me a penny. It's free at point of service and to argue the toss that it's not technically "free'is just embarrassing. Like I said ,if the nhs was created by a conservative gmnt,this entire conversation wouldnt be happening. A labour gmnt created the NHS...no way in the world would it have been built under the likes of Thatcher,cameron or the current clown. | |||
| |||
"Just where is it that people think that Healthcare in this country is free? its free if your not paying taxes other than that its being paid for by everyone earning more than 12500 quid a yea
It's often forgotten that its not just people working and earning but almost everyone as many items you buy are taxed. The more you earn and spend the more you pay. What's reassuring is you get treated regardless of how much you have paid in
Of course a national health service costing billions has to be paid for..but I could have a life saving operation today and it wouldnt cost me a penny.
It's free at point of service and to argue the toss that it's not technically "free'is just embarrassing.
Like I said ,if the nhs was created by a conservative gmnt,this entire conversation wouldnt be happening.
A labour gmnt created the NHS...no way in the world would it have been built under the likes of Thatcher,cameron or the current clown."I fear you misunderstand me. I was responding to a poster who mentioned anyone who earns over 12500 pays for it. I simply pointed out that there is many more ways you are taxed and therefore contribute. Free at the point of use- yes. Free- sadly not. I'm a fan of it and as I say it does not discriminate on how much or how long you have paid in | |||
"Just where is it that people think that Healthcare in this country is free? its free if your not paying taxes other than that its being paid for by everyone earning more than 12500 quid a yea
It's often forgotten that its not just people working and earning but almost everyone as many items you buy are taxed. The more you earn and spend the more you pay. What's reassuring is you get treated regardless of how much you have paid in
Of course a national health service costing billions has to be paid for..but I could have a life saving operation today and it wouldnt cost me a penny.
It's free at point of service and to argue the toss that it's not technically "free'is just embarrassing.
Like I said ,if the nhs was created by a conservative gmnt,this entire conversation wouldnt be happening.
A labour gmnt created the NHS...no way in the world would it have been built under the likes of Thatcher,cameron or the current clown.
I fear you misunderstand me. I was responding to a poster who mentioned anyone who earns over 12500 pays for it. I simply pointed out that there is many more ways you are taxed and therefore contribute. Free at the point of use- yes. Free- sadly not. I'm a fan of it and as I say it does not discriminate on how much or how long you have paid in"Apologies | |||
"Just where is it that people think that Healthcare in this country is free? its free if your not paying taxes other than that its being paid for by everyone earning more than 12500 quid a yea
It's often forgotten that its not just people working and earning but almost everyone as many items you buy are taxed. The more you earn and spend the more you pay. What's reassuring is you get treated regardless of how much you have paid in
Of course a national health service costing billions has to be paid for..but I could have a life saving operation today and it wouldnt cost me a penny.
It's free at point of service and to argue the toss that it's not technically "free'is just embarrassing.
Like I said ,if the nhs was created by a conservative gmnt,this entire conversation wouldnt be happening.
A labour gmnt created the NHS...no way in the world would it have been built under the likes of Thatcher,cameron or the current clown.
I fear you misunderstand me. I was responding to a poster who mentioned anyone who earns over 12500 pays for it. I simply pointed out that there is many more ways you are taxed and therefore contribute. Free at the point of use- yes. Free- sadly not. I'm a fan of it and as I say it does not discriminate on how much or how long you have paid in
Apologies "No problem. | |||
"The sentence which is most often used to say that the NHS is FREE - it's not. That's why the word "semantics" is used to describe the interpretation. Are you saying that you do not agree? That the service is free for an individual to access but its provision has a cost. Is it free to walk along a pavement on a public street? Arguing to be "right" is fine, but it does not add any value here unless there is a wider point about the contrast between the need for things created in capitalism and the contentment with what is necessary in other societies. I think only you are arguing to be right - me I'm just having a discussion. No. It's not free to walk along a pavement - generally it's upkeep is taken from your local and national council taxes." You have just defined a semantic argument, to which you are welcome to have on your own, against yourself, as nobody is actually disagreeing with you. Neither does it really have any pertinence to the post by the OP. | |||
"Just where is it that people think that Healthcare in this country is free? its free if your not paying taxes other than that its being paid for by everyone earning more than 12500 quid a yea
Not free then."just what i said not free to anyone paying tax | |||
| |||
"Just where is it that people think that Healthcare in this country is free? its free if your not paying taxes other than that its being paid for by everyone earning more than 12500 quid a yea
Not free then.just what i said not free to anyone paying tax"They still pay VAT on goods, is what's not free about it. If they have a car fuel is taxed. Road fund licence is a tax - plus a whole range of benefits are under tax rules. People forget that taxation in this country isn't targeted by reason of payment and eventually destination of the tax collected. It all goes to the Exchequer for dispersal. | |||
"Just where is it that people think that Healthcare in this country is free? its free if your not paying taxes other than that its being paid for by everyone earning more than 12500 quid a yea
Not free then.just what i said not free to anyone paying tax
They still pay VAT on goods, is what's not free about it. If they have a car fuel is taxed. Road fund licence is a tax - plus a whole range of benefits are under tax rules.
People forget that taxation in this country isn't targeted by reason of payment and eventually destination of the tax collected. It all goes to the Exchequer for dispersal."Im not disagreeing with you you know it and i know its not free we all pay for it just most of us dont get to use what we pay for | |||
"Just where is it that people think that Healthcare in this country is free? its free if your not paying taxes other than that its being paid for by everyone earning more than 12500 quid a yea
Not free then.just what i said not free to anyone paying tax
They still pay VAT on goods, is what's not free about it. If they have a car fuel is taxed. Road fund licence is a tax - plus a whole range of benefits are under tax rules.
People forget that taxation in this country isn't targeted by reason of payment and eventually destination of the tax collected. It all goes to the Exchequer for dispersal.
Im not disagreeing with you you know it and i know its not free we all pay for it just most of us dont get to use what we pay for"But it's gotta' be good to be healthy. lol. You will need it one day and be glad to have paid for it.  | |||
"Just where is it that people think that Healthcare in this country is free? its free if your not paying taxes other than that its being paid for by everyone earning more than 12500 quid a yea
Not free then.just what i said not free to anyone paying tax
They still pay VAT on goods, is what's not free about it. If they have a car fuel is taxed. Road fund licence is a tax - plus a whole range of benefits are under tax rules.
People forget that taxation in this country isn't targeted by reason of payment and eventually destination of the tax collected. It all goes to the Exchequer for dispersal.
Im not disagreeing with you you know it and i know its not free we all pay for it just most of us dont get to use what we pay for"A slightly flawed argument | |||
| |||
| |||
"Why flawed lionel i been payin since i was 16 not used hospital since then prob been to gp a dozen times and when they prescribe me something i pay for that aswell so not really value for my money in my eyes.others may have a different view.personaly id rather pay a lot less tax and use that money to pay for bupa or some other private healthcare" Because just because you have never used it..and I'm assuming at some point in your life,you have visited the drs..that doesn't mean you never will. You realise you will be paying a fuck load more for private insurance? And we all know private insurance companies, never try to weasel out of paying out. | |||
| |||
"Why flawed lionel i been payin since i was 16 not used hospital since then prob been to gp a dozen times and when they prescribe me something i pay for that aswell so not really value for my money in my eyes.others may have a different view.personaly id rather pay a lot less tax and use that money to pay for bupa or some other private healthcare Because just because you have never used it..and I'm assuming at some point in your life,you have visited the drs..that doesn't mean you never will. You realise you will be paying a fuck load more for private insurance? And we all know private insurance companies, never try to weasel out of paying out." try reading what i wrote lionel instead of just having a rant.i mentioned ive used the gp about a dozen times since i started working yet I have to pay for prescriptions if prescribed something yet not if im not working.so still get charged even though ive always paid in. | |||
"Why flawed lionel i been payin since i was 16 not used hospital since then prob been to gp a dozen times and when they prescribe me something i pay for that aswell so not really value for my money in my eyes.others may have a different view.personaly id rather pay a lot less tax and use that money to pay for bupa or some other private healthcare Because just because you have never used it..and I'm assuming at some point in your life,you have visited the drs..that doesn't mean you never will. You realise you will be paying a fuck load more for private insurance? And we all know private insurance companies, never try to weasel out of paying out.try reading what i wrote lionel instead of just having a rant.i mentioned ive used the gp about a dozen times since i started working yet I have to pay for prescriptions if prescribed something yet not if im not working.so still get charged even though ive always paid in." Surely if we all got prescriptions free the tax will be even more? | |||
"Why flawed lionel i been payin since i was 16 not used hospital since then prob been to gp a dozen times and when they prescribe me something i pay for that aswell so not really value for my money in my eyes.others may have a different view.personaly id rather pay a lot less tax and use that money to pay for bupa or some other private healthcare Because just because you have never used it..and I'm assuming at some point in your life,you have visited the drs..that doesn't mean you never will. You realise you will be paying a fuck load more for private insurance? And we all know private insurance companies, never try to weasel out of paying out.try reading what i wrote lionel instead of just having a rant.i mentioned ive used the gp about a dozen times since i started working yet I have to pay for prescriptions if prescribed something yet not if im not working.so still get charged even though ive always paid in. Surely if we all got prescriptions free the tax will be even more? " Paying for Prescriptions IS the tax. | |||
"Why flawed lionel i been payin since i was 16 not used hospital since then prob been to gp a dozen times and when they prescribe me something i pay for that aswell so not really value for my money in my eyes.others may have a different view.personaly id rather pay a lot less tax and use that money to pay for bupa or some other private healthcare Because just because you have never used it..and I'm assuming at some point in your life,you have visited the drs..that doesn't mean you never will. You realise you will be paying a fuck load more for private insurance? And we all know private insurance companies, never try to weasel out of paying out.try reading what i wrote lionel instead of just having a rant.i mentioned ive used the gp about a dozen times since i started working yet I have to pay for prescriptions if prescribed something yet not if im not working.so still get charged even though ive always paid in. Surely if we all got prescriptions free the tax will be even more? " they seem to manage to dish em out for free in scotland | |||
"Why flawed lionel i been payin since i was 16 not used hospital since then prob been to gp a dozen times and when they prescribe me something i pay for that aswell so not really value for my money in my eyes.others may have a different view.personaly id rather pay a lot less tax and use that money to pay for bupa or some other private healthcare Because just because you have never used it..and I'm assuming at some point in your life,you have visited the drs..that doesn't mean you never will. You realise you will be paying a fuck load more for private insurance? And we all know private insurance companies, never try to weasel out of paying out.try reading what i wrote lionel instead of just having a rant.i mentioned ive used the gp about a dozen times since i started working yet I have to pay for prescriptions if prescribed something yet not if im not working.so still get charged even though ive always paid in. Surely if we all got prescriptions free the tax will be even more? they seem to manage to dish em out for free in scotland" Much smaller population. | |||
"Why flawed lionel i been payin since i was 16 not used hospital since then prob been to gp a dozen times and when they prescribe me something i pay for that aswell so not really value for my money in my eyes.others may have a different view.personaly id rather pay a lot less tax and use that money to pay for bupa or some other private healthcare Because just because you have never used it..and I'm assuming at some point in your life,you have visited the drs..that doesn't mean you never will. You realise you will be paying a fuck load more for private insurance? And we all know private insurance companies, never try to weasel out of paying out.try reading what i wrote lionel instead of just having a rant.i mentioned ive used the gp about a dozen times since i started working yet I have to pay for prescriptions if prescribed something yet not if im not working.so still get charged even though ive always paid in. Surely if we all got prescriptions free the tax will be even more? they seem to manage to dish em out for free in scotland Much smaller population. " so smaller amount of taxpayers then or is it the rest of the uk paying for there free prescriptions | |||
| |||
"Why flawed lionel i been payin since i was 16 not used hospital since then prob been to gp a dozen times and when they prescribe me something i pay for that aswell so not really value for my money in my eyes.others may have a different view.personaly id rather pay a lot less tax and use that money to pay for bupa or some other private healthcare Because just because you have never used it..and I'm assuming at some point in your life,you have visited the drs..that doesn't mean you never will. You realise you will be paying a fuck load more for private insurance? And we all know private insurance companies, never try to weasel out of paying out.try reading what i wrote lionel instead of just having a rant.i mentioned ive used the gp about a dozen times since i started working yet I have to pay for prescriptions if prescribed something yet not if im not working.so still get charged even though ive always paid in. Surely if we all got prescriptions free the tax will be even more? they seem to manage to dish em out for free in scotland" Free parking at hospitals too but scotland does get more taxpayers money per head than England under the barnett formula. Which equates to around £129 per head to every £100 spent per head the uk gov spends in england. | |||
