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Where Does Labour Go Now?
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"Big question is why hartlepool voted tory." Why would they vote Labour ? | |||
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"Big question is why hartlepool voted tory. Why would they vote Labour ?" Why vote tory? | |||
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"Big question is why hartlepool voted tory. Why would they vote Labour ? Why vote tory? " Could go round in circles | |||
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"Labour are done. Who is going to drag them out the doldrums? Can’t see anyone at the moment who has what’s needed to unite the party and appeal to their old voter base. " SKS is done, labour will survive (somehow ) | |||
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"Labour are done. Who is going to drag them out the doldrums? Can’t see anyone at the moment who has what’s needed to unite the party and appeal to their old voter base. SKS is done, labour will survive (somehow ) " Of course they will survive. But they need some serious strategy change or they'll end up just another party. I guess there is one saving grace in that there's plenty of time for change but they need to do it quickly or as time goes on it'll become an even higher mountain. | |||
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Guess what? The average bloke in Hartlepool doesn't give a fuck.
If the Labour party is ever going to make a comeback (which for the foreseeable future I doubt) it has to get its head from up its own arse and remember that there is a country outside the Westminster bubble.
Meanwhile. PMSL.  | |||
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"Labour are done. Who is going to drag them out the doldrums? Can’t see anyone at the moment who has what’s needed to unite the party and appeal to their old voter base. SKS is done, labour will survive (somehow ) Of course they will survive. But they need some serious strategy change or they'll end up just another party. I guess there is one saving grace in that there's plenty of time for change but they need to do it quickly or as time goes on it'll become an even higher mountain." Do voters really analyse who they're voting for or just make a dnap decision on the whole | |||
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"Labour are done. Who is going to drag them out the doldrums? Can’t see anyone at the moment who has what’s needed to unite the party and appeal to their old voter base. SKS is done, labour will survive (somehow ) Of course they will survive. But they need some serious strategy change or they'll end up just another party. I guess there is one saving grace in that there's plenty of time for change but they need to do it quickly or as time goes on it'll become an even higher mountain. Do voters really analyse who they're voting for or just make a dnap decision on the whole " Some will analyse and some won't. As an above poster has said, there are some real world problems out there and Labour have chosen the wrong route again. You would have thought that they may have learnt something from the past ie. stop trying to discredit the other side and actually come up with some real solutions to the issues. By trying to discredit at any chance, it creates a feeling of 'all they do is moan' amongst people and will likely push them towards your opposition. Maybe I have that wrong but that's how I and other I speak to see it. | |||
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"Big question is why hartlepool voted tory. Why would they vote Labour ?" They didn't vote labour. Why did the vote Tory? | |||
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"The loss of Hartlepool is going to pose that very question. Is Kier Starner appealing enough? Has Brexit diluted their traditional support? Their are 38 Labour seats where a Brexit shift would turn that seat from red to blue. The Labour woes of 2019 continue, and thats not good for UK politics. " Labour are on the decline. I can't see any opposition to the Conservatives in my lifetime. The Tories have more money, more wealthy donors, they represent the interests of big business and the ultra wealthy. So they have the backing of Murdoch and the majority of the British press. And brexit successfully divided the working classes, which will take decades to heal. They will stay in power as long as the current electoral system is in place. | |||
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"Labour are done. Who is going to drag them out the doldrums? Can’t see anyone at the moment who has what’s needed to unite the party and appeal to their old voter base. SKS is done, labour will survive (somehow ) Of course they will survive. But they need some serious strategy change or they'll end up just another party. I guess there is one saving grace in that there's plenty of time for change but they need to do it quickly or as time goes on it'll become an even higher mountain. Do voters really analyse who they're voting for or just make a dnap decision on the whole Some will analyse and some won't. As an above poster has said, there are some real world problems out there and Labour have chosen the wrong route again. You would have thought that they may have learnt something from the past ie. stop trying to discredit the other side and actually come up with some real solutions to the issues. By trying to discredit at any chance, it creates a feeling of 'all they do is moan' amongst people and will likely push them towards your opposition. Maybe I have that wrong but that's how I and other I speak to see it." I don't think you are wrong at all. All Labour want to do is snipe at the Tories at every opportunity but put up very little policy of their own. You even see it on here. The regular Labour supporters are like a dog with a bone at the slightest (real or imagined) whiff of a Tory scandal yet say very little about their own party. | |||
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"The loss of Hartlepool is going to pose that very question. Is Kier Starner appealing enough? Has Brexit diluted their traditional support? Their are 38 Labour seats where a Brexit shift would turn that seat from red to blue. The Labour woes of 2019 continue, and thats not good for UK politics. Labour are on the decline. I can't see any opposition to the Conservatives in my lifetime. The Tories have more money, more wealthy donors, they represent the interests of big business and the ultra wealthy. So they have the backing of Murdoch and the majority of the British press. And brexit successfully divided the working classes, which will take decades to heal. They will stay in power as long as the current electoral system is in place. " LOL. We can't win so let's change the system. | |||
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"Labour are done. Who is going to drag them out the doldrums? Can’t see anyone at the moment who has what’s needed to unite the party and appeal to their old voter base. SKS is done, labour will survive (somehow ) Of course they will survive. But they need some serious strategy change or they'll end up just another party. I guess there is one saving grace in that there's plenty of time for change but they need to do it quickly or as time goes on it'll become an even higher mountain. Do voters really analyse who they're voting for or just make a dnap decision on the whole Some will analyse and some won't. As an above poster has said, there are some real world problems out there and Labour have chosen the wrong route again. You would have thought that they may have learnt something from the past ie. stop trying to discredit the other side and actually come up with some real solutions to the issues. By trying to discredit at any chance, it creates a feeling of 'all they do is moan' amongst people and will likely push them towards your opposition. Maybe I have that wrong but that's how I and other I speak to see it. I don't think you are wrong at all. All Labour want to do is snipe at the Tories at every opportunity but put up very little policy of their own. You even see it on here. The regular Labour supporters are like a dog with a bone at the slightest (real or imagined) whiff of a Tory scandal yet say very little about their own party." That's actually not true. Labour have focussed on policy, and they haven't mentioned all the Tory corruption in their campaigning. The media would have you believe the opposite though. And it worked. I'm not saying I especially care about Labour being on the decline. They're moving their party to be Tory-lite, which is presumably a tactic to win votes, but makes them a party who I wouldn't consider voting for at a national level. | |||
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"The loss of Hartlepool is going to pose that very question. Is Kier Starner appealing enough? Has Brexit diluted their traditional support? Their are 38 Labour seats where a Brexit shift would turn that seat from red to blue. The Labour woes of 2019 continue, and thats not good for UK politics. Labour are on the decline. I can't see any opposition to the Conservatives in my lifetime. The Tories have more money, more wealthy donors, they represent the interests of big business and the ultra wealthy. So they have the backing of Murdoch and the majority of the British press. And brexit successfully divided the working classes, which will take decades to heal. They will stay in power as long as the current electoral system is in place. LOL. We can't win so let's change the system." I'm not saying the system should change. I'm just saying that's my opinion. Labour won't win power in my lifetime. | |||
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"Labour are done. Who is going to drag them out the doldrums? Can’t see anyone at the moment who has what’s needed to unite the party and appeal to their old voter base. SKS is done, labour will survive (somehow ) Of course they will survive. But they need some serious strategy change or they'll end up just another party. I guess there is one saving grace in that there's plenty of time for change but they need to do it quickly or as time goes on it'll become an even higher mountain. Do voters really analyse who they're voting for or just make a dnap decision on the whole Some will analyse and some won't. As an above poster has said, there are some real world problems out there and Labour have chosen the wrong route again. You would have thought that they may have learnt something from the past ie. stop trying to discredit the other side and actually come up with some real solutions to the issues. By trying to discredit at any chance, it creates a feeling of 'all they do is moan' amongst people and will likely push them towards your opposition. Maybe I have that wrong but that's how I and other I speak to see it. I don't think you are wrong at all. All Labour want to do is snipe at the Tories at every opportunity but put up very little policy of their own. You even see it on here. The regular Labour supporters are like a dog with a bone at the slightest (real or imagined) whiff of a Tory scandal yet say very little about their own party. That's actually not true. Labour have focussed on policy, and they haven't mentioned all the Tory corruption in their campaigning. The media would have you believe the opposite though. And it worked. I'm not saying I especially care about Labour being on the decline. They're moving their party to be Tory-lite, which is presumably a tactic to win votes, but makes them a party who I wouldn't consider voting for at a national level." Do you mean BBC Parliament who stream live from the HOC? They have been focusing on making us believe that all Labour do is snipe via a live feed? Come on, even the most ardent media hater can't believe that's true. | |||
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"The loss of Hartlepool is going to pose that very question. Is Kier Starner appealing enough? Has Brexit diluted their traditional support? Their are 38 Labour seats where a Brexit shift would turn that seat from red to blue. The Labour woes of 2019 continue, and thats not good for UK politics. Labour are on the decline. I can't see any opposition to the Conservatives in my lifetime. The Tories have more money, more wealthy donors, they represent the interests of big business and the ultra wealthy. So they have the backing of Murdoch and the majority of the British press. And brexit successfully divided the working classes, which will take decades to heal. They will stay in power as long as the current electoral system is in place. " You haven't sniped at anyone here but this just sounds like 'woe me'. This is also an issue. Most people don't care which party is 'bigger, stronger, wealthier', they want to see real policies on real issues. | |||
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Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Labour are done. Who is going to drag them out the doldrums? Can’t see anyone at the moment who has what’s needed to unite the party and appeal to their old voter base. SKS is done, labour will survive (somehow ) Of course they will survive. But they need some serious strategy change or they'll end up just another party. I guess there is one saving grace in that there's plenty of time for change but they need to do it quickly or as time goes on it'll become an even higher mountain. Do voters really analyse who they're voting for or just make a dnap decision on the whole Some will analyse and some won't. As an above poster has said, there are some real world problems out there and Labour have chosen the wrong route again. You would have thought that they may have learnt something from the past ie. stop trying to discredit the other side and actually come up with some real solutions to the issues. By trying to discredit at any chance, it creates a feeling of 'all they do is moan' amongst people and will likely push them towards your opposition. Maybe I have that wrong but that's how I and other I speak to see it. I don't think you are wrong at all. All Labour want to do is snipe at the Tories at every opportunity but put up very little policy of their own. You even see it on here. The regular Labour supporters are like a dog with a bone at the slightest (real or imagined) whiff of a Tory scandal yet say very little about their own party. That's actually not true. Labour have focussed on policy, and they haven't mentioned all the Tory corruption in their campaigning. The media would have you believe the opposite though. And it worked. I'm not saying I especially care about Labour being on the decline. They're moving their party to be Tory-lite, which is presumably a tactic to win votes, but makes them a party who I wouldn't consider voting for at a national level. Do you mean BBC Parliament who stream live from the HOC? They have been focusing on making us believe that all Labour do is snipe via a live feed? Come on, even the most ardent media hater can't believe that's true." That specific live stream that very few people watch, no. But the mainstream media narrative. Yes. In any case. The "where do Labour go from here" question. The most common opinion seems to be that they need to basically become Tory-lite to be elected. I don't see the point in that, other than to get elected, but it's not offering any real change, improvement or alternative. So why is that appealling to anyone? Like people mentioned above, the current government has a list of scandals as long as your arm. The electorate don't give a fuck how badly they're getting screwed. The media play a huge role in that apathy. | |||
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"Labour are done. Who is going to drag them out the doldrums? Can’t see anyone at the moment who has what’s needed to unite the party and appeal to their old voter base. SKS is done, labour will survive (somehow ) Of course they will survive. But they need some serious strategy change or they'll end up just another party. I guess there is one saving grace in that there's plenty of time for change but they need to do it quickly or as time goes on it'll become an even higher mountain. Do voters really analyse who they're voting for or just make a dnap decision on the whole Some will analyse and some won't. As an above poster has said, there are some real world problems out there and Labour have chosen the wrong route again. You would have thought that they may have learnt something from the past ie. stop trying to discredit the other side and actually come up with some real solutions to the issues. By trying to discredit at any chance, it creates a feeling of 'all they do is moan' amongst people and will likely push them towards your opposition. Maybe I have that wrong but that's how I and other I speak to see it. I don't think you are wrong at all. All Labour want to do is snipe at the Tories at every opportunity but put up very little policy of their own. You even see it on here. The regular Labour supporters are like a dog with a bone at the slightest (real or imagined) whiff of a Tory scandal yet say very little about their own party. That's actually not true. Labour have focussed on policy, and they haven't mentioned all the Tory corruption in their campaigning. The media would have you believe the opposite though. And it worked. I'm not saying I especially care about Labour being on the decline. They're moving their party to be Tory-lite, which is presumably a tactic to win votes, but makes them a party who I wouldn't consider voting for at a national level." So I imagined Starmer looking at wallpaper in John Lewis? I must have imagined the procession of front benchers on Sky News (and other places) shouting for this enquiry that or the other inquest. Labour had nothing else to offer and they thought (wrongly) that blowing up a storm in a teacup was their best option. BTW just declared Tory majority of almost 7,000. That isn't a loss, it's a rout. | |||
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"The loss of Hartlepool is going to pose that very question. Is Kier Starner appealing enough? Has Brexit diluted their traditional support? Their are 38 Labour seats where a Brexit shift would turn that seat from red to blue. The Labour woes of 2019 continue, and thats not good for UK politics. Labour are on the decline. I can't see any opposition to the Conservatives in my lifetime. The Tories have more money, more wealthy donors, they represent the interests of big business and the ultra wealthy. So they have the backing of Murdoch and the majority of the British press. And brexit successfully divided the working classes, which will take decades to heal. They will stay in power as long as the current electoral system is in place. You haven't sniped at anyone here but this just sounds like 'woe me'. This is also an issue. Most people don't care which party is 'bigger, stronger, wealthier', they want to see real policies on real issues." Why is this "woe me"? I don't know what you're getting at. As people mentioned above, people aren't interested in policy. Only how they perceive the parties as they're presented to them in the media. If people voted mainly on policy, the UK political landscape would be very different. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Labour are done. Who is going to drag them out the doldrums? Can’t see anyone at the moment who has what’s needed to unite the party and appeal to their old voter base. SKS is done, labour will survive (somehow ) Of course they will survive. But they need some serious strategy change or they'll end up just another party. I guess there is one saving grace in that there's plenty of time for change but they need to do it quickly or as time goes on it'll become an even higher mountain. Do voters really analyse who they're voting for or just make a dnap decision on the whole Some will analyse and some won't. As an above poster has said, there are some real world problems out there and Labour have chosen the wrong route again. You would have thought that they may have learnt something from the past ie. stop trying to discredit the other side and actually come up with some real solutions to the issues. By trying to discredit at any chance, it creates a feeling of 'all they do is moan' amongst people and will likely push them towards your opposition. Maybe I have that wrong but that's how I and other I speak to see it. I don't think you are wrong at all. All Labour want to do is snipe at the Tories at every opportunity but put up very little policy of their own. You even see it on here. The regular Labour supporters are like a dog with a bone at the slightest (real or imagined) whiff of a Tory scandal yet say very little about their own party. That's actually not true. Labour have focussed on policy, and they haven't mentioned all the Tory corruption in their campaigning. The media would have you believe the opposite though. And it worked. I'm not saying I especially care about Labour being on the decline. They're moving their party to be Tory-lite, which is presumably a tactic to win votes, but makes them a party who I wouldn't consider voting for at a national level. So I imagined Starmer looking at wallpaper in John Lewis? I must have imagined the procession of front benchers on Sky News (and other places) shouting for this enquiry that or the other inquest. Labour had nothing else to offer and they thought (wrongly) that blowing up a storm in a teacup was their best option. BTW just declared Tory majority of almost 7,000. That isn't a loss, it's a rout." There you go, this is exactly my point, thank you. This is what you were shown in the media. You were not shown what Labour actually campaigned on.  | |||
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"The loss of Hartlepool is going to pose that very question. Is Kier Starner appealing enough? Has Brexit diluted their traditional support? Their are 38 Labour seats where a Brexit shift would turn that seat from red to blue. The Labour woes of 2019 continue, and thats not good for UK politics. Labour are on the decline. I can't see any opposition to the Conservatives in my lifetime. The Tories have more money, more wealthy donors, they represent the interests of big business and the ultra wealthy. So they have the backing of Murdoch and the majority of the British press. And brexit successfully divided the working classes, which will take decades to heal. They will stay in power as long as the current electoral system is in place. You haven't sniped at anyone here but this just sounds like 'woe me'. This is also an issue. Most people don't care which party is 'bigger, stronger, wealthier', they want to see real policies on real issues. Why is this "woe me"? I don't know what you're getting at. As people mentioned above, people aren't interested in policy. Only how they perceive the parties as they're presented to them in the media. If people voted mainly on policy, the UK political landscape would be very different." If you can't see what you said is 'woe me' then I'm not gonna be able to help you see it. All I'm saying is this is how people take these statements. I'd disagree on the policy front, but maybe that's personal to me. I do care about policy and if Labour really do bring a central policy with a strong party then they may well appeal to me. | |||
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"The loss of Hartlepool is going to pose that very question. Is Kier Starner appealing enough? Has Brexit diluted their traditional support? Their are 38 Labour seats where a Brexit shift would turn that seat from red to blue. The Labour woes of 2019 continue, and thats not good for UK politics. Labour are on the decline. I can't see any opposition to the Conservatives in my lifetime. The Tories have more money, more wealthy donors, they represent the interests of big business and the ultra wealthy. So they have the backing of Murdoch and the majority of the British press. And brexit successfully divided the working classes, which will take decades to heal. They will stay in power as long as the current electoral system is in place. You haven't sniped at anyone here but this just sounds like 'woe me'. This is also an issue. Most people don't care which party is 'bigger, stronger, wealthier', they want to see real policies on real issues. Why is this "woe me"? I don't know what you're getting at. As people mentioned above, people aren't interested in policy. Only how they perceive the parties as they're presented to them in the media. If people voted mainly on policy, the UK political landscape would be very different. If you can't see what you said is 'woe me' then I'm not gonna be able to help you see it. All I'm saying is this is how people take these statements. I'd disagree on the policy front, but maybe that's personal to me. I do care about policy and if Labour really do bring a central policy with a strong party then they may well appeal to me. " I can't. I'm not Labour. And we were having an interesting discussion before you tried to make it personal. | |||
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"The loss of Hartlepool is going to pose that very question. Is Kier Starner appealing enough? Has Brexit diluted their traditional support? Their are 38 Labour seats where a Brexit shift would turn that seat from red to blue. The Labour woes of 2019 continue, and thats not good for UK politics. Labour are on the decline. I can't see any opposition to the Conservatives in my lifetime. The Tories have more money, more wealthy donors, they represent the interests of big business and the ultra wealthy. So they have the backing of Murdoch and the majority of the British press. And brexit successfully divided the working classes, which will take decades to heal. They will stay in power as long as the current electoral system is in place. " Lol it’s that sort of attitude gives them (you) no chance. Pathetic frankly. | |||
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"The loss of Hartlepool is going to pose that very question. Is Kier Starner appealing enough? Has Brexit diluted their traditional support? Their are 38 Labour seats where a Brexit shift would turn that seat from red to blue. The Labour woes of 2019 continue, and thats not good for UK politics. Labour are on the decline. I can't see any opposition to the Conservatives in my lifetime. The Tories have more money, more wealthy donors, they represent the interests of big business and the ultra wealthy. So they have the backing of Murdoch and the majority of the British press. And brexit successfully divided the working classes, which will take decades to heal. They will stay in power as long as the current electoral system is in place. You haven't sniped at anyone here but this just sounds like 'woe me'. This is also an issue. Most people don't care which party is 'bigger, stronger, wealthier', they want to see real policies on real issues. Why is this "woe me"? I don't know what you're getting at. As people mentioned above, people aren't interested in policy. Only how they perceive the parties as they're presented to them in the media. If people voted mainly on policy, the UK political landscape would be very different. If you can't see what you said is 'woe me' then I'm not gonna be able to help you see it. All I'm saying is this is how people take these statements. I'd disagree on the policy front, but maybe that's personal to me. I do care about policy and if Labour really do bring a central policy with a strong party then they may well appeal to me. I can't. I'm not Labour. And we were having an interesting discussion before you tried to make it personal. " I wasn't making it personal towards you. I was using your statement to show you how people read things. It's part of the discussion ie. what Labour don't need if they want to move forward. | |||
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"The loss of Hartlepool is going to pose that very question. Is Kier Starner appealing enough? Has Brexit diluted their traditional support? Their are 38 Labour seats where a Brexit shift would turn that seat from red to blue. The Labour woes of 2019 continue, and thats not good for UK politics. Labour are on the decline. I can't see any opposition to the Conservatives in my lifetime. The Tories have more money, more wealthy donors, they represent the interests of big business and the ultra wealthy. So they have the backing of Murdoch and the majority of the British press. And brexit successfully divided the working classes, which will take decades to heal. They will stay in power as long as the current electoral system is in place. You haven't sniped at anyone here but this just sounds like 'woe me'. This is also an issue. Most people don't care which party is 'bigger, stronger, wealthier', they want to see real policies on real issues. Why is this "woe me"? I don't know what you're getting at. As people mentioned above, people aren't interested in policy. Only how they perceive the parties as they're presented to them in the media. If people voted mainly on policy, the UK political landscape would be very different. If you can't see what you said is 'woe me' then I'm not gonna be able to help you see it. All I'm saying is this is how people take these statements. I'd disagree on the policy front, but maybe that's personal to me. I do care about policy and if Labour really do bring a central policy with a strong party then they may well appeal to me. I can't. I'm not Labour. And we were having an interesting discussion before you tried to make it personal. I wasn't making it personal towards you. I was using your statement to show you how people read things. It's part of the discussion ie. what Labour don't need if they want to move forward." Okay, but plenty of people go for that kind of thing as a personal attack. (See post above). Then the discussion becomes utterly inane. The common wisdom seems to be that for Labour to be electable, they need to be over in the centre right, close to the Tories, offering nothing in the way of a real alternative. They could choose to do that, go down the New Labour route. But they were so terrible, we may as well have had a Conservative government. | |||
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"The loss of Hartlepool is going to pose that very question. Is Kier Starner appealing enough? Has Brexit diluted their traditional support? Their are 38 Labour seats where a Brexit shift would turn that seat from red to blue. The Labour woes of 2019 continue, and thats not good for UK politics. Labour are on the decline. I can't see any opposition to the Conservatives in my lifetime. The Tories have more money, more wealthy donors, they represent the interests of big business and the ultra wealthy. So they have the backing of Murdoch and the majority of the British press. And brexit successfully divided the working classes, which will take decades to heal. They will stay in power as long as the current electoral system is in place. You haven't sniped at anyone here but this just sounds like 'woe me'. This is also an issue. Most people don't care which party is 'bigger, stronger, wealthier', they want to see real policies on real issues. Why is this "woe me"? I don't know what you're getting at. As people mentioned above, people aren't interested in policy. Only how they perceive the parties as they're presented to them in the media. If people voted mainly on policy, the UK political landscape would be very different. If you can't see what you said is 'woe me' then I'm not gonna be able to help you see it. All I'm saying is this is how people take these statements. I'd disagree on the policy front, but maybe that's personal to me. I do care about policy and if Labour really do bring a central policy with a strong party then they may well appeal to me. I can't. I'm not Labour. And we were having an interesting discussion before you tried to make it personal. I wasn't making it personal towards you. I was using your statement to show you how people read things. It's part of the discussion ie. what Labour don't need if they want to move forward. Okay, but plenty of people go for that kind of thing as a personal attack. (See post above). Then the discussion becomes utterly inane. The common wisdom seems to be that for Labour to be electable, they need to be over in the centre right, close to the Tories, offering nothing in the way of a real alternative. They could choose to do that, go down the New Labour route. But they were so terrible, we may as well have had a Conservative government. " With the amount of power that the Conservatives have had over the years, what makes people think that the country as a whole want a left-sided government? Personally, I believe more people would actually vote for a centre-right party than they would for left or right. Maybe, just maybe if any party actually realised what the electorate want and position themselves there then they would have a real chance | |||
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"Starmer’s days are numbered ... There are early signs the Council results will throw up further misery for the Labour Party." 12 out of 143 councils have declared. Cons are plus 49 Lab are minus 53 The swing in Hartlepool is 16% | |||
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"The loss of Hartlepool is going to pose that very question. Is Kier Starner appealing enough? Has Brexit diluted their traditional support? Their are 38 Labour seats where a Brexit shift would turn that seat from red to blue. The Labour woes of 2019 continue, and thats not good for UK politics. Labour are on the decline. I can't see any opposition to the Conservatives in my lifetime. The Tories have more money, more wealthy donors, they represent the interests of big business and the ultra wealthy. So they have the backing of Murdoch and the majority of the British press. And brexit successfully divided the working classes, which will take decades to heal. They will stay in power as long as the current electoral system is in place. You haven't sniped at anyone here but this just sounds like 'woe me'. This is also an issue. Most people don't care which party is 'bigger, stronger, wealthier', they want to see real policies on real issues. Why is this "woe me"? I don't know what you're getting at. As people mentioned above, people aren't interested in policy. Only how they perceive the parties as they're presented to them in the media. If people voted mainly on policy, the UK political landscape would be very different. If you can't see what you said is 'woe me' then I'm not gonna be able to help you see it. All I'm saying is this is how people take these statements. I'd disagree on the policy front, but maybe that's personal to me. I do care about policy and if Labour really do bring a central policy with a strong party then they may well appeal to me. I can't. I'm not Labour. And we were having an interesting discussion before you tried to make it personal. I wasn't making it personal towards you. I was using your statement to show you how people read things. It's part of the discussion ie. what Labour don't need if they want to move forward. Okay, but plenty of people go for that kind of thing as a personal attack. (See post above). Then the discussion becomes utterly inane. The common wisdom seems to be that for Labour to be electable, they need to be over in the centre right, close to the Tories, offering nothing in the way of a real alternative. They could choose to do that, go down the New Labour route. But they were so terrible, we may as well have had a Conservative government. With the amount of power that the Conservatives have had over the years, what makes people think that the country as a whole want a left-sided government? Personally, I believe more people would actually vote for a centre-right party than they would for left or right. Maybe, just maybe if any party actually realised what the electorate want and position themselves there then they would have a real chance" The problem is, what the electorate want, en-masse, is what they're told to want. People consistently don't vote in their own interests. My opinion, and it's only my opinion, is that the media plays a huge role in this. This is what I find interesting, and most of the reason I come down to this part of the forums. I completely respect that you would find a centre or centre right party appealing. But unless this party, whoever they are, had the backing of Murdoch and the rest of the press that currently backs the Tories, they wouldn't get elected. And for me personally, if they're offering a slightly less shit version of that's on offer already (which in my view is where Labour are currently at), then I don't think that's good enough to get my vote. | |||
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"Labour are done. Who is going to drag them out the doldrums? Can’t see anyone at the moment who has what’s needed to unite the party and appeal to their old voter base. SKS is done, labour will survive (somehow ) Of course they will survive. But they need some serious strategy change or they'll end up just another party. I guess there is one saving grace in that there's plenty of time for change but they need to do it quickly or as time goes on it'll become an even higher mountain. Do voters really analyse who they're voting for or just make a dnap decision on the whole Some will analyse and some won't. As an above poster has said, there are some real world problems out there and Labour have chosen the wrong route again. You would have thought that they may have learnt something from the past ie. stop trying to discredit the other side and actually come up with some real solutions to the issues. By trying to discredit at any chance, it creates a feeling of 'all they do is moan' amongst people and will likely push them towards your opposition. Maybe I have that wrong but that's how I and other I speak to see it. I don't think you are wrong at all. All Labour want to do is snipe at the Tories at every opportunity but put up very little policy of their own. You even see it on here. The regular Labour supporters are like a dog with a bone at the slightest (real or imagined) whiff of a Tory scandal yet say very little about their own party. That's actually not true. Labour have focussed on policy, and they haven't mentioned all the Tory corruption in their campaigning. The media would have you believe the opposite though. And it worked. I'm not saying I especially care about Labour being on the decline. They're moving their party to be Tory-lite, which is presumably a tactic to win votes, but makes them a party who I wouldn't consider voting for at a national level. So I imagined Starmer looking at wallpaper in John Lewis? I must have imagined the procession of front benchers on Sky News (and other places) shouting for this enquiry that or the other inquest. Labour had nothing else to offer and they thought (wrongly) that blowing up a storm in a teacup was their best option. BTW just declared Tory majority of almost 7,000. That isn't a loss, it's a rout. There you go, this is exactly my point, thank you. This is what you were shown in the media. You were not shown what Labour actually campaigned on. "Of course it is what I was shown in the media. I don't live in Hartlepool so it was all I was able to see. However if Starmer doesn't want the media to show him looking at wallpaper then he shouldn't go to John Lewis and invite the press pack along for a photo shoot. If the talking heads from the front bench want it to be about policy then don't go onto Sky news talking about wallpaper. The media gave Labour enough chances to talk about policy, so why didn't they? | |||
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"Labour are done. Who is going to drag them out the doldrums? Can’t see anyone at the moment who has what’s needed to unite the party and appeal to their old voter base. SKS is done, labour will survive (somehow ) Of course they will survive. But they need some serious strategy change or they'll end up just another party. I guess there is one saving grace in that there's plenty of time for change but they need to do it quickly or as time goes on it'll become an even higher mountain. Do voters really analyse who they're voting for or just make a dnap decision on the whole Some will analyse and some won't. As an above poster has said, there are some real world problems out there and Labour have chosen the wrong route again. You would have thought that they may have learnt something from the past ie. stop trying to discredit the other side and actually come up with some real solutions to the issues. By trying to discredit at any chance, it creates a feeling of 'all they do is moan' amongst people and will likely push them towards your opposition. Maybe I have that wrong but that's how I and other I speak to see it. I don't think you are wrong at all. All Labour want to do is snipe at the Tories at every opportunity but put up very little policy of their own. You even see it on here. The regular Labour supporters are like a dog with a bone at the slightest (real or imagined) whiff of a Tory scandal yet say very little about their own party. That's actually not true. Labour have focussed on policy, and they haven't mentioned all the Tory corruption in their campaigning. The media would have you believe the opposite though. And it worked. I'm not saying I especially care about Labour being on the decline. They're moving their party to be Tory-lite, which is presumably a tactic to win votes, but makes them a party who I wouldn't consider voting for at a national level. So I imagined Starmer looking at wallpaper in John Lewis? I must have imagined the procession of front benchers on Sky News (and other places) shouting for this enquiry that or the other inquest. Labour had nothing else to offer and they thought (wrongly) that blowing up a storm in a teacup was their best option. BTW just declared Tory majority of almost 7,000. That isn't a loss, it's a rout. There you go, this is exactly my point, thank you. This is what you were shown in the media. You were not shown what Labour actually campaigned on.
Of course it is what I was shown in the media. I don't live in Hartlepool so it was all I was able to see.
However if Starmer doesn't want the media to show him looking at wallpaper then he shouldn't go to John Lewis and invite the press pack along for a photo shoot.
If the talking heads from the front bench want it to be about policy then don't go onto Sky news talking about wallpaper.
The media gave Labour enough chances to talk about policy, so why didn't they?"They don't get invited onto Sky to talk about their policies. They get invited on to talk about Tory corruption. It makes for better television. I'm not defending Labour here. We're just discussing why they're failing in elections. | |||
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"The ONLY people to blame for why Labour lost is Labour. If anyone thinks that voters are stupid, un-savvy, led on a lease by some almighty powerful and dark press, then they are suffering from the same delusion that Labour are. " Is it possible to have a discussion without the old, anyone who has a different opinion to me is deluded, or without any of the usual standard Fab insults? | |||
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"Delusion: "A delusion is a fixed belief that is not amenable to change in light of conflicting evidence." Okay? Now. Maybe we can get back to debating instead of defensive posturing." Is that a "no we can't continue without the standard Fab insults" then? Well it was fun to have a proper discussion for a while. Have a good Friday. | |||
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"The loss of Hartlepool is going to pose that very question. Is Kier Starner appealing enough? Has Brexit diluted their traditional support? Their are 38 Labour seats where a Brexit shift would turn that seat from red to blue. The Labour woes of 2019 continue, and thats not good for UK politics. Labour are on the decline. I can't see any opposition to the Conservatives in my lifetime. The Tories have more money, more wealthy donors, they represent the interests of big business and the ultra wealthy. So they have the backing of Murdoch and the majority of the British press. And brexit successfully divided the working classes, which will take decades to heal. They will stay in power as long as the current electoral system is in place. You haven't sniped at anyone here but this just sounds like 'woe me'. This is also an issue. Most people don't care which party is 'bigger, stronger, wealthier', they want to see real policies on real issues. Why is this "woe me"? I don't know what you're getting at. As people mentioned above, people aren't interested in policy. Only how they perceive the parties as they're presented to them in the media. If people voted mainly on policy, the UK political landscape would be very different. If you can't see what you said is 'woe me' then I'm not gonna be able to help you see it. All I'm saying is this is how people take these statements. I'd disagree on the policy front, but maybe that's personal to me. I do care about policy and if Labour really do bring a central policy with a strong party then they may well appeal to me. I can't. I'm not Labour. And we were having an interesting discussion before you tried to make it personal. I wasn't making it personal towards you. I was using your statement to show you how people read things. It's part of the discussion ie. what Labour don't need if they want to move forward. Okay, but plenty of people go for that kind of thing as a personal attack. (See post above). Then the discussion becomes utterly inane. The common wisdom seems to be that for Labour to be electable, they need to be over in the centre right, close to the Tories, offering nothing in the way of a real alternative. They could choose to do that, go down the New Labour route. But they were so terrible, we may as well have had a Conservative government. With the amount of power that the Conservatives have had over the years, what makes people think that the country as a whole want a left-sided government? Personally, I believe more people would actually vote for a centre-right party than they would for left or right. Maybe, just maybe if any party actually realised what the electorate want and position themselves there then they would have a real chance The problem is, what the electorate want, en-masse, is what they're told to want. People consistently don't vote in their own interests. My opinion, and it's only my opinion, is that the media plays a huge role in this. This is what I find interesting, and most of the reason I come down to this part of the forums. I completely respect that you would find a centre or centre right party appealing. But unless this party, whoever they are, had the backing of Murdoch and the rest of the press that currently backs the Tories, they wouldn't get elected. And for me personally, if they're offering a slightly less shit version of that's on offer already (which in my view is where Labour are currently at), then I don't think that's good enough to get my vote." Patronising rubbish. Labour could come out with costed vote winning policies tomorrow. Particularly something like an increase in minimum wage and increase in minimum tax threshold, say 5 billion quid. Legislation around zero hours. That's, what, 8 million voters right there? The public is well attuned currently to billions being spent here and there, this would be seen as moderate and even self financing (more disposable income for more people). Easy to understand significant policies. I follow politics closely, talk with top professors about this sort of thing, and frankly I've no idea what labour's significant policies are. Something about BLM and wallpaper I think. Risible. | |||
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"Delusion: "A delusion is a fixed belief that is not amenable to change in light of conflicting evidence." Okay? Now. Maybe we can get back to debating instead of defensive posturing. Is that a "no we can't continue without the standard Fab insults" then? Well it was fun to have a proper discussion for a while. Have a good Friday. " Oh Dear, even when I explain why I used the word delusion you still take it as an insult. | |||
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"Big question is why hartlepool voted tory. Why would they vote Labour ? Why vote tory? " Mostly because they are not the Labour Party | |||
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"The ONLY people to blame for why Labour lost is Labour. If anyone thinks that voters are stupid, un-savvy, led on a lease by some almighty powerful and dark press, then they are suffering from the same delusion that Labour are. " To ignore the impact of the press in recent history politics seems strange given it and it's messages work for some and every leader of the main parties has for the last thirty years known this hence they have had close relationships with Murdoch for example.. Boris sending the patrol boats to jersey will have been well received by some in a constituency which voted for brexit and last night dumped labour.. As to where Labour go, they're in transition and need to make some big decisions.. I said on here when Corbyn was elected leader that he would never be PM, middle England and as we saw the 'red wall' would not elect him.. They're won't be a hard left government here in my lifetime despite the social inequalities, the kids and families below the poverty line that we have now and despite over ten years of Tory governance with such things getting worse for those people we have a result like last night.. Fucked if I know what labour do tbh but we all need an effective opposition holding the government to account, however we vote.. | |||
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"If Labour were to "change" now, then that would simply be pandering to the knee-jerkers who want instant results. It isn't really a surprise that Starmer has a mountain to climb when Labour extremists are celebrating the loss of Hartlepool as much as the right are. I expected this result and as I have been saying on here over the last few days - Hartlepool was Brexit Central and not enough time has passed for anyone there to even think that they might have been in the wrong voting for Brexit, hence they voted continuity Brexit. In my opinion, there have to be questions as to how the electorate can blind to corruption and incompetence and drawn towards three-word slogans and Nationalist concepts. There was an opportunity to reject corruption, cronyism, and incompetence - but they chose Brexit continuity and accepted the above. " Perhaps they were more concerned with someone running a good and positive campaign, that put the interests of Hartlepool first? Potholes or wallpaper? | |||
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"And here it comes: "Hartlepool result brings Labour's long-running infighting back into the open Analysis by Tom Rayner, digital politics editor Criticism of Sir Keir Starmer is coming through loud and clear from the left of the Labour Party this morning. Richard Burgon and Diane Abbott, two former shadow cabinet ministers during Jeremy Corbyn's tenure, have both called on him to urgently change strategy towards a more radical left-wing agenda. The pro-Corbyn Momentum group have also issued a damning statement, claiming "a transformative socialist message has won in Hartlepool before, and it would have won again". But on Sky News in the last few minutes Labour's shadow communities secretary Steve Reed mounted a robust defence of Sir Keir's leadership. He described the results in Hartlepool as "shattering" and turned the finger of blame towards the damage he claims was done to the party's reputation during Mr Corbyn's leadership. "People know the leader has changed, but from speaking to people on the door they don't know if the Labour Party has changed." "The Labour Party must change like never before," he added." Radical left wing agenda? - well that's just what the voters have voted against." Yes but I see Labour lurching to the hard left again Momentum say that left wing policies worked in Hartlepool before. But did they really? Labour just about scraped through in 2019 but that was only because the Brexit party polled over 10,000 votes, the majority of which would have probably gone Tory. I very much doubt that Labour will sort itself out and will probably drift into civil war, and maybe even a split. | |||
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"As much as some left supporters want a "proper" left wing or socialist labour party the uk has moved on. More and more people own their house, drive a nice car have foreign holidays etc, they want that to continue for themselves and their children, why would they vote for a government that is going to tax them to give it away to those who wont help themselves ? We need a constructive opposition, I cant see labour changing to a centre party that was the Blair one, if they dont they will gradually become irrelevant and that isnt good for the country. If they produced policies that said we need to modernise the nhs, we need to help those who help themselves and need to get those who wont to accept there is no free rides, to get help you have to contribute but we will help you to do that, if they said let's back british manufacturing, encourage real jobs promote practical skills, and yes introduce a maximum wage based on the average earnings in a business then I might even vote for them. If they keep bleating about the tories selling the nhs and giving free rides to scroungers then they are finished. It's funny the labour supporters I know are champagne socialists, middle class public workers who have retired early on large pensions and think anyone with more than them as fat cats, of course they don't see their hypocrisy and believe every word the guardian fat cats tell them." I would agree with most of that but don't hold your breath for any of it being in a Labour manifesto any time soon. | |||
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" I very much doubt that Labour will sort itself out and will probably drift into civil war, and maybe even a split." Fall apart - argue - re-form - then try and convince the electorate that they are worthy of Office again. And that just looks like another rolling ground-hog day, and following way to quickly after Corbyn. So that would realistically mean that the next General Election is lost to them too. | |||
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"Im waiting for all those "they didnt know what they were voting for" posts. "Don't worry the day is young | |||
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"If Labour were to "change" now, then that would simply be pandering to the knee-jerkers who want instant results. It isn't really a surprise that Starmer has a mountain to climb when Labour extremists are celebrating the loss of Hartlepool as much as the right are. I expected this result and as I have been saying on here over the last few days - Hartlepool was Brexit Central and not enough time has passed for anyone there to even think that they might have been in the wrong voting for Brexit, hence they voted continuity Brexit. In my opinion, there have to be questions as to how the electorate can blind to corruption and incompetence and drawn towards three-word slogans and Nationalist concepts. There was an opportunity to reject corruption, cronyism, and incompetence - but they chose Brexit continuity and accepted the above. Perhaps they were more concerned with someone running a good and positive campaign, that put the interests of Hartlepool first? Potholes or wallpaper? " If your own analysis cant tell the difference between something that is a local issue (potholes) and something which is a national issue then perhaps your analysis might be way off? As for the wallpaper, anyone who wants to turn a blind eye to the fraudulent way that Johnson asked for his flat to be redecorated and his childcare to be paid for, may as well turn a blind eye to envelopes stuffed with cash changing hands. People who put their cross against Leave the EU in places like Hartlepool appear to be willing to forsake all levels of corruption, cronyism and incompetence to prove that they were right. In the fullness of time - we will see about that. | |||
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"As much as some left supporters want a "proper" left wing or socialist labour party the uk has moved on. More and more people own their house, drive a nice car have foreign holidays etc, they want that to continue for themselves and their children, why would they vote for a government that is going to tax them to give it away to those who wont help themselves ? We need a constructive opposition, I cant see labour changing to a centre party that was the Blair one, if they dont they will gradually become irrelevant and that isnt good for the country. If they produced policies that said we need to modernise the nhs, we need to help those who help themselves and need to get those who wont to accept there is no free rides, to get help you have to contribute but we will help you to do that, if they said let's back british manufacturing, encourage real jobs promote practical skills, and yes introduce a maximum wage based on the average earnings in a business then I might even vote for them. If they keep bleating about the tories selling the nhs and giving free rides to scroungers then they are finished. It's funny the labour supporters I know are champagne socialists, middle class public workers who have retired early on large pensions and think anyone with more than them as fat cats, of course they don't see their hypocrisy and believe every word the guardian fat cats tell them. I would agree with most of that but don't hold your breath for any of it being in a Labour manifesto any time soon." Labour is supposed to be the party of the working class people. However a political analysis said this morning more working class people voted for the Conservatives in the 2019 GE than for Labour. Labour doesn't represent the working class anymore and that is their problem. They need to ditch the left wing policies plus get momentum and the hard left out of the party. | |||
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"If Labour were to "change" now, then that would simply be pandering to the knee-jerkers who want instant results. It isn't really a surprise that Starmer has a mountain to climb when Labour extremists are celebrating the loss of Hartlepool as much as the right are. I expected this result and as I have been saying on here over the last few days - Hartlepool was Brexit Central and not enough time has passed for anyone there to even think that they might have been in the wrong voting for Brexit, hence they voted continuity Brexit. In my opinion, there have to be questions as to how the electorate can blind to corruption and incompetence and drawn towards three-word slogans and Nationalist concepts. There was an opportunity to reject corruption, cronyism, and incompetence - but they chose Brexit continuity and accepted the above. Perhaps they were more concerned with someone running a good and positive campaign, that put the interests of Hartlepool first? Potholes or wallpaper? If your own analysis cant tell the difference between something that is a local issue (potholes) and something which is a national issue then perhaps your analysis might be way off? As for the wallpaper, anyone who wants to turn a blind eye to the fraudulent way that Johnson asked for his flat to be redecorated and his childcare to be paid for, may as well turn a blind eye to envelopes stuffed with cash changing hands. People who put their cross against Leave the EU in places like Hartlepool appear to be willing to forsake all levels of corruption, cronyism and incompetence to prove that they were right. In the fullness of time - we will see about that." Are you still hanging on to the belief that brexit was a factor in this election? its done and dusted and i think you are doing the people of Hartlepool a disservice by insinuating they only voted to make themselves right. | |||
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"Its also very noticeable, that Socialist Democratic parties, are losing support all over Europe. Is there a common theme emerging here? " I think people are just sick-to-death of being thrown from pillar to post by left wing politics. People want stability above all else. It's great having principles, but principles don't pay peoples mortgages. | |||
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"The only way Labour come back from this is to go deep centre. Who leads that charge? No idea but it's clearly not SKS." A cunning plan | |||
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"Where does Labour go now? It will probably dig itself into an even deeper hole. The hard left vultures are circling and Starmer's days are numbered. To be honest he (and the rest of his front bench) did themselves no favours at all. Pandemic. lockdown, redundancy's, bankruptcy's, an a whole plethora of real world problems and all they could bang on about was Boris's wallpaper.
Guess what? The average bloke in Hartlepool doesn't give a fuck.
If the Labour party is ever going to make a comeback (which for the foreseeable future I doubt) it has to get its head from up its own arse and remember that there is a country outside the Westminster bubble.
Meanwhile. PMSL. "Hard left  | |||
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"Where does Labour go now? It will probably dig itself into an even deeper hole. The hard left vultures are circling and Starmer's days are numbered. To be honest he (and the rest of his front bench) did themselves no favours at all. Pandemic. lockdown, redundancy's, bankruptcy's, an a whole plethora of real world problems and all they could bang on about was Boris's wallpaper.
Guess what? The average bloke in Hartlepool doesn't give a fuck.
If the Labour party is ever going to make a comeback (which for the foreseeable future I doubt) it has to get its head from up its own arse and remember that there is a country outside the Westminster bubble.
Meanwhile. PMSL.
Hard left
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"Its also very noticeable, that Socialist Democratic parties, are losing support all over Europe. Is there a common theme emerging here? " Seems so. | |||
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"All labour want to do is discredit the tories From 2017 and 2019 literally every singer day there was a personal attack on corbyn. He was utterly vilified Alex called him a chicken in parliament yet its labour who adopt this policy. This place once again to be proving it's worth as the font of all considered political opinion " Bring him back i say, he must have picked all those splinters out of his arse from sitting on the fence by now. | |||
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"Its also very noticeable, that Socialist Democratic parties, are losing support all over Europe. Is there a common theme emerging here? I think people are just sick-to-death of being thrown from pillar to post by left wing politics. People want stability above all else. It's great having principles, but principles don't pay peoples mortgages. " Except that historically there has never been a truly successful thoroughly right wing Government anywhere in Europe. They ultimately fail through corruption and dissatisfaction. Successful Governments tend to be associated with a happy and content population and in Europe right now they are centre / centre left. There is a first time for everything I suppose. | |||
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"Its also very noticeable, that Socialist Democratic parties, are losing support all over Europe. Is there a common theme emerging here? Seems so. " Pupulism on the rise. Well it worked a treat in america | |||
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"Its also very noticeable, that Socialist Democratic parties, are losing support all over Europe. Is there a common theme emerging here? I think people are just sick-to-death of being thrown from pillar to post by left wing politics. People want stability above all else. It's great having principles, but principles don't pay peoples mortgages. Except that historically there has never been a truly successful thoroughly right wing Government anywhere in Europe. They ultimately fail through corruption and dissatisfaction. Successful Governments tend to be associated with a happy and content population and in Europe right now they are centre / centre left. There is a first time for everything I suppose." We havemt had a left wing gmnt for nearly 80 years. | |||
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"As much as some left supporters want a "proper" left wing or socialist labour party the uk has moved on. More and more people own their house, drive a nice car have foreign holidays etc, they want that to continue for themselves and their children, why would they vote for a government that is going to tax them to give it away to those who wont help themselves ? We need a constructive opposition, I cant see labour changing to a centre party that was the Blair one, if they dont they will gradually become irrelevant and that isnt good for the country. If they produced policies that said we need to modernise the nhs, we need to help those who help themselves and need to get those who wont to accept there is no free rides, to get help you have to contribute but we will help you to do that, if they said let's back british manufacturing, encourage real jobs promote practical skills, and yes introduce a maximum wage based on the average earnings in a business then I might even vote for them. If they keep bleating about the tories selling the nhs and giving free rides to scroungers then they are finished. It's funny the labour supporters I know are champagne socialists, middle class public workers who have retired early on large pensions and think anyone with more than them as fat cats, of course they don't see their hypocrisy and believe every word the guardian fat cats tell them. I would agree with most of that but don't hold your breath for any of it being in a Labour manifesto any time soon. Labour is supposed to be the party of the working class people. However a political analysis said this morning more working class people voted for the Conservatives in the 2019 GE than for Labour. Labour doesn't represent the working class anymore and that is their problem. They need to ditch the left wing policies plus get momentum and the hard left out of the party." You realise kier starmer is the leader? | |||
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"Its also very noticeable, that Socialist Democratic parties, are losing support all over Europe. Is there a common theme emerging here? I think people are just sick-to-death of being thrown from pillar to post by left wing politics. People want stability above all else. It's great having principles, but principles don't pay peoples mortgages. Except that historically there has never been a truly successful thoroughly right wing Government anywhere in Europe. They ultimately fail through corruption and dissatisfaction. Successful Governments tend to be associated with a happy and content population and in Europe right now they are centre / centre left. There is a first time for everything I suppose. We havemt had a left wing gmnt for nearly 80 years." Do you have... Any policies? | |||
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"Its also very noticeable, that Socialist Democratic parties, are losing support all over Europe. Is there a common theme emerging here? I think people are just sick-to-death of being thrown from pillar to post by left wing politics. People want stability above all else. It's great having principles, but principles don't pay peoples mortgages. Except that historically there has never been a truly successful thoroughly right wing Government anywhere in Europe. They ultimately fail through corruption and dissatisfaction. Successful Governments tend to be associated with a happy and content population and in Europe right now they are centre / centre left. There is a first time for everything I suppose. We havemt had a left wing gmnt for nearly 80 years." Doesn't that tell you something? the people of Britain don't want lefties running the country. | |||
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" We havemt had a left wing gmnt for nearly 80 years." But that doesn't mean that we haven't had left wing politics tearing at the landscape does it. If you can explain the Corbyn years as centrist then I'm all ears as to how you will convince people of that? (typo) | |||
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"As much as some left supporters want a "proper" left wing or socialist labour party the uk has moved on. More and more people own their house, drive a nice car have foreign holidays etc, they want that to continue for themselves and their children, why would they vote for a government that is going to tax them to give it away to those who wont help themselves ? We need a constructive opposition, I cant see labour changing to a centre party that was the Blair one, if they dont they will gradually become irrelevant and that isnt good for the country. If they produced policies that said we need to modernise the nhs, we need to help those who help themselves and need to get those who wont to accept there is no free rides, to get help you have to contribute but we will help you to do that, if they said let's back british manufacturing, encourage real jobs promote practical skills, and yes introduce a maximum wage based on the average earnings in a business then I might even vote for them. If they keep bleating about the tories selling the nhs and giving free rides to scroungers then they are finished. It's funny the labour supporters I know are champagne socialists, middle class public workers who have retired early on large pensions and think anyone with more than them as fat cats, of course they don't see their hypocrisy and believe every word the guardian fat cats tell them. I would agree with most of that but don't hold your breath for any of it being in a Labour manifesto any time soon. Labour is supposed to be the party of the working class people. However a political analysis said this morning more working class people voted for the Conservatives in the 2019 GE than for Labour. Labour doesn't represent the working class anymore and that is their problem. They need to ditch the left wing policies plus get momentum and the hard left out of the party. You realise kier starmer is the leader?" He may well be but momentum are still involved with Labour. | |||
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"As much as some left supporters want a "proper" left wing or socialist labour party the uk has moved on. More and more people own their house, drive a nice car have foreign holidays etc, they want that to continue for themselves and their children, why would they vote for a government that is going to tax them to give it away to those who wont help themselves ? We need a constructive opposition, I cant see labour changing to a centre party that was the Blair one, if they dont they will gradually become irrelevant and that isnt good for the country. If they produced policies that said we need to modernise the nhs, we need to help those who help themselves and need to get those who wont to accept there is no free rides, to get help you have to contribute but we will help you to do that, if they said let's back british manufacturing, encourage real jobs promote practical skills, and yes introduce a maximum wage based on the average earnings in a business then I might even vote for them. If they keep bleating about the tories selling the nhs and giving free rides to scroungers then they are finished. It's funny the labour supporters I know are champagne socialists, middle class public workers who have retired early on large pensions and think anyone with more than them as fat cats, of course they don't see their hypocrisy and believe every word the guardian fat cats tell them. I would agree with most of that but don't hold your breath for any of it being in a Labour manifesto any time soon. Labour is supposed to be the party of the working class people. However a political analysis said this morning more working class people voted for the Conservatives in the 2019 GE than for Labour. Labour doesn't represent the working class anymore and that is their problem. They need to ditch the left wing policies plus get momentum and the hard left out of the party. You realise kier starmer is the leader? He may well be but momentum are still involved with Labour." Starmer has moved the entire party to the centre. | |||
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" We havemt had a left wing gmnt for nearly 80 years. But that doesn't mean that we haven't had left wing politics tearing at the landscape does it. If you can explain the Corbyn years as centrist then I'm all ears as to how you will convince people of that? (typo)" Convince people of what? | |||
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"As much as some left supporters want a "proper" left wing or socialist labour party the uk has moved on. More and more people own their house, " Homeownership was lower in 2018 (most recent figures available) than in 2012. Ten years of Tory rule have not made average people better off. The opposite, in fact. Labour don't need to go full socialist Corbyn mode. But they should be pointing out the facts and arguing for the fight against inequality. That Starmer can't bring himself to do that is painful. | |||
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"Its also very noticeable, that Socialist Democratic parties, are losing support all over Europe. Is there a common theme emerging here? I think people are just sick-to-death of being thrown from pillar to post by left wing politics. People want stability above all else. It's great having principles, but principles don't pay peoples mortgages. Except that historically there has never been a truly successful thoroughly right wing Government anywhere in Europe. They ultimately fail through corruption and dissatisfaction. Successful Governments tend to be associated with a happy and content population and in Europe right now they are centre / centre left. There is a first time for everything I suppose. We havemt had a left wing gmnt for nearly 80 years. Do you have... Any policies?" I'm not....a politician. | |||
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"This is a problem for everybody in this country and not just those who affiliate to what is labelled the new labour party. Without effective opposition the government are not held to account. Debate and policy is weaker. The tories arent tory, Labour aren't Labour, lib dems.... Well who knows which side is up... Politicians and parties are scared to say what they stand for because they are scared they might alienate some voters. Voters aren't engaged by and large because my generation don't see any serious politicians worth a vote and the younger generations are too decadent to care. (I generalise clearly). I have no answers but it is a very worrying time for politics in this country. Because unless people care about politicians that have beliefs and values and also care.... We get the low quality bunch we have in opposition and running the country now. As for "working class" or "middle class" ... Is that relevant and a thing any more? I have no friends who would define themselves as any particular class. " It's a strange time, it's more a government of the cult of brexit and it's move to such has seen some decent and capable people ousted from within their own party.. Starmer has taken over at the time we are in global health crisis so whilst it could be said it's early days the clock is ticking to the next GE and this result whilst expected will hurt.. The issue societally is when the incumbents are moving further to the right does the opposition follow, or stay where it is.. I don't really know what they stand for at present, the problem is that when some look at it and they have to put a cross in a box they will go with the option that looks like they know what they're doing.. Even if there are questions of integrity, corruption and the leader is a proven liar who continues to do so unchecked and if multiple sources are to be believed was happy to see piles of bodies in the streets.. | |||
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" We havemt had a left wing gmnt for nearly 80 years. But that doesn't mean that we haven't had left wing politics tearing at the landscape does it. If you can explain the Corbyn years as centrist then I'm all ears as to how you will convince people of that? (typo) Convince people of what?" Usual answer. Ask again so as not to answer. Standard.  | |||
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" We havemt had a left wing gmnt for nearly 80 years. But that doesn't mean that we haven't had left wing politics tearing at the landscape does it. If you can explain the Corbyn years as centrist then I'm all ears as to how you will convince people of that? (typo) Convince people of what? Usual answer. Ask again so as not to answer. Standard. "
I'm clarifying what you asking me
How do you convince people of left wing policies?
Which policies specifically?
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"This is a problem for everybody in this country and not just those who affiliate to what is labelled the new labour party. Without effective opposition the government are not held to account. Debate and policy is weaker. The tories arent tory, Labour aren't Labour, lib dems.... Well who knows which side is up... Politicians and parties are scared to say what they stand for because they are scared they might alienate some voters. Voters aren't engaged by and large because my generation don't see any serious politicians worth a vote and the younger generations are too decadent to care. (I generalise clearly). I have no answers but it is a very worrying time for politics in this country. Because unless people care about politicians that have beliefs and values and also care.... We get the low quality bunch we have in opposition and running the country now. As for "working class" or "middle class" ... Is that relevant and a thing any more? I have no friends who would define themselves as any particular class. It's a strange time, it's more a government of the cult of brexit and it's move to such has seen some decent and capable people ousted from within their own party.. Starmer has taken over at the time we are in global health crisis so whilst it could be said it's early days the clock is ticking to the next GE and this result whilst expected will hurt.. The issue societally is when the incumbents are moving further to the right does the opposition follow, or stay where it is.. I don't really know what they stand for at present, the problem is that when some look at it and they have to put a cross in a box they will go with the option that looks like they know what they're doing.. Even if there are questions of integrity, corruption and the leader is a proven liar who continues to do so unchecked and if multiple sources are to be believed was happy to see piles of bodies in the streets.. " Previously it was argued that the people of Hartlepool voted for Brexit and that this would be the acid test for that assumption, well this result proves that that assumption was clearly and resoundingly wrong. | |||
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"This is a problem for everybody in this country and not just those who affiliate to what is labelled the new labour party. Without effective opposition the government are not held to account. Debate and policy is weaker. The tories arent tory, Labour aren't Labour, lib dems.... Well who knows which side is up... Politicians and parties are scared to say what they stand for because they are scared they might alienate some voters. Voters aren't engaged by and large because my generation don't see any serious politicians worth a vote and the younger generations are too decadent to care. (I generalise clearly). I have no answers but it is a very worrying time for politics in this country. Because unless people care about politicians that have beliefs and values and also care.... We get the low quality bunch we have in opposition and running the country now. As for "working class" or "middle class" ... Is that relevant and a thing any more? I have no friends who would define themselves as any particular class. It's a strange time, it's more a government of the cult of brexit and it's move to such has seen some decent and capable people ousted from within their own party.. Starmer has taken over at the time we are in global health crisis so whilst it could be said it's early days the clock is ticking to the next GE and this result whilst expected will hurt.. The issue societally is when the incumbents are moving further to the right does the opposition follow, or stay where it is.. I don't really know what they stand for at present, the problem is that when some look at it and they have to put a cross in a box they will go with the option that looks like they know what they're doing.. Even if there are questions of integrity, corruption and the leader is a proven liar who continues to do so unchecked and if multiple sources are to be believed was happy to see piles of bodies in the streets.. Previously it was argued that the people of Hartlepool voted for Brexit and that this would be the acid test for that assumption, well this result proves that that assumption was clearly and resoundingly wrong. " Erm no it doesnt. If they voted in labour would be saying we were wrong about brexit. It's an endorsement of that decision. | |||
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"Its also very noticeable, that Socialist Democratic parties, are losing support all over Europe. Is there a common theme emerging here? I think people are just sick-to-death of being thrown from pillar to post by left wing politics. People want stability above all else. It's great having principles, but principles don't pay peoples mortgages. Except that historically there has never been a truly successful thoroughly right wing Government anywhere in Europe. They ultimately fail through corruption and dissatisfaction. Successful Governments tend to be associated with a happy and content population and in Europe right now they are centre / centre left. There is a first time for everything I suppose. We havemt had a left wing gmnt for nearly 80 years. Do you have... Any policies? I'm not....a politician." Not one? Think we might have identified the problem here chaps  | |||
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"This is a problem for everybody in this country and not just those who affiliate to what is labelled the new labour party. Without effective opposition the government are not held to account. Debate and policy is weaker. The tories arent tory, Labour aren't Labour, lib dems.... Well who knows which side is up... Politicians and parties are scared to say what they stand for because they are scared they might alienate some voters. Voters aren't engaged by and large because my generation don't see any serious politicians worth a vote and the younger generations are too decadent to care. (I generalise clearly). I have no answers but it is a very worrying time for politics in this country. Because unless people care about politicians that have beliefs and values and also care.... We get the low quality bunch we have in opposition and running the country now. As for "working class" or "middle class" ... Is that relevant and a thing any more? I have no friends who would define themselves as any particular class. It's a strange time, it's more a government of the cult of brexit and it's move to such has seen some decent and capable people ousted from within their own party.. Starmer has taken over at the time we are in global health crisis so whilst it could be said it's early days the clock is ticking to the next GE and this result whilst expected will hurt.. The issue societally is when the incumbents are moving further to the right does the opposition follow, or stay where it is.. I don't really know what they stand for at present, the problem is that when some look at it and they have to put a cross in a box they will go with the option that looks like they know what they're doing.. Even if there are questions of integrity, corruption and the leader is a proven liar who continues to do so unchecked and if multiple sources are to be believed was happy to see piles of bodies in the streets.. Previously it was argued that the people of Hartlepool voted for Brexit and that this would be the acid test for that assumption, well this result proves that that assumption was clearly and resoundingly wrong. Erm no it doesnt. If they voted in labour would be saying we were wrong about brexit. It's an endorsement of that decision. " total rubbish, were labour against leaving in the last election? | |||
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" Erm no it doesnt. If they voted in labour would be saying we were wrong about brexit. It's an endorsement of that decision. " Ah, I see. The people of Hartlepool voted the Conservatives in because they didn't want to be embarrassed by being caught out having voted for Brexit. Wow! How embarrassing!! lol But not true lol. | |||
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"Big question is why hartlepool voted tory." That is farly easy I reckon 1 Vaccine roll out 2 Starmer only policy seems to critisise Boris over who paid for wall paper and not putting forward constructive policies he is very negative. | |||
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" Erm no it doesnt. If they voted in labour would be saying we were wrong about brexit. It's an endorsement of that decision. Ah, I see. The people of Hartlepool voted the Conservatives in because they didn't want to be embarrassed by being caught out having voted for Brexit. Wow! How embarrassing!! lol But not true lol. "Presumably you have asked then all? | |||
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" Erm no it doesnt. If they voted in labour would be saying we were wrong about brexit. It's an endorsement of that decision. Ah, I see. The people of Hartlepool voted the Conservatives in because they didn't want to be embarrassed by being caught out having voted for Brexit. Wow! How embarrassing!! lol But not true lol. "Its all they have to hold on to. | |||
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" Erm no it doesnt. If they voted in labour would be saying we were wrong about brexit. It's an endorsement of that decision. Ah, I see. The people of Hartlepool voted the Conservatives in because they didn't want to be embarrassed by being caught out having voted for Brexit. Wow! How embarrassing!! lol But not true lol.
Presumably you have asked then all?"I suppose with that answer you have then? | |||
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" Erm no it doesnt. If they voted in labour would be saying we were wrong about brexit. It's an endorsement of that decision. Ah, I see. The people of Hartlepool voted the Conservatives in because they didn't want to be embarrassed by being caught out having voted for Brexit. Wow! How embarrassing!! lol But not true lol.
Presumably you have asked then all?"I didnt think it would take long to get backto the playground. | |||
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" Erm no it doesnt. If they voted in labour would be saying we were wrong about brexit. It's an endorsement of that decision. Ah, I see. The people of Hartlepool voted the Conservatives in because they didn't want to be embarrassed by being caught out having voted for Brexit. Wow! How embarrassing!! lol But not true lol. Its all they have to hold on to. "Three words for the day: 1. Hope. 2. Springs. 3. Eternal. | |||
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"This is a problem for everybody in this country and not just those who affiliate to what is labelled the new labour party. Without effective opposition the government are not held to account. Debate and policy is weaker. The tories arent tory, Labour aren't Labour, lib dems.... Well who knows which side is up... Politicians and parties are scared to say what they stand for because they are scared they might alienate some voters. Voters aren't engaged by and large because my generation don't see any serious politicians worth a vote and the younger generations are too decadent to care. (I generalise clearly). I have no answers but it is a very worrying time for politics in this country. Because unless people care about politicians that have beliefs and values and also care.... We get the low quality bunch we have in opposition and running the country now. As for "working class" or "middle class" ... Is that relevant and a thing any more? I have no friends who would define themselves as any particular class. It's a strange time, it's more a government of the cult of brexit and it's move to such has seen some decent and capable people ousted from within their own party.. Starmer has taken over at the time we are in global health crisis so whilst it could be said it's early days the clock is ticking to the next GE and this result whilst expected will hurt.. The issue societally is when the incumbents are moving further to the right does the opposition follow, or stay where it is.. I don't really know what they stand for at present, the problem is that when some look at it and they have to put a cross in a box they will go with the option that looks like they know what they're doing.. Even if there are questions of integrity, corruption and the leader is a proven liar who continues to do so unchecked and if multiple sources are to be believed was happy to see piles of bodies in the streets.. Previously it was argued that the people of Hartlepool voted for Brexit and that this would be the acid test for that assumption, well this result proves that that assumption was clearly and resoundingly wrong. " Would not totally ignore the effects of 'Boris getting brexit done' in a constituency that was one of the highest voting areas for that issue and the choice between Boris and Starmer given their thoughts on it.. How much it played will be no doubt bandied about.. | |||
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" Erm no it doesnt. If they voted in labour would be saying we were wrong about brexit. It's an endorsement of that decision. Ah, I see. The people of Hartlepool voted the Conservatives in because they didn't want to be embarrassed by being caught out having voted for Brexit. Wow! How embarrassing!! lol But not true lol.
Presumably you have asked then all?
I suppose with that answer you have then?"Nope but I'm not the one claiming my opinion is 'true ' | |||
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"This is a problem for everybody in this country and not just those who affiliate to what is labelled the new labour party. Without effective opposition the government are not held to account. Debate and policy is weaker. The tories arent tory, Labour aren't Labour, lib dems.... Well who knows which side is up... Politicians and parties are scared to say what they stand for because they are scared they might alienate some voters. Voters aren't engaged by and large because my generation don't see any serious politicians worth a vote and the younger generations are too decadent to care. (I generalise clearly). I have no answers but it is a very worrying time for politics in this country. Because unless people care about politicians that have beliefs and values and also care.... We get the low quality bunch we have in opposition and running the country now. As for "working class" or "middle class" ... Is that relevant and a thing any more? I have no friends who would define themselves as any particular class. It's a strange time, it's more a government of the cult of brexit and it's move to such has seen some decent and capable people ousted from within their own party.. Starmer has taken over at the time we are in global health crisis so whilst it could be said it's early days the clock is ticking to the next GE and this result whilst expected will hurt.. The issue societally is when the incumbents are moving further to the right does the opposition follow, or stay where it is.. I don't really know what they stand for at present, the problem is that when some look at it and they have to put a cross in a box they will go with the option that looks like they know what they're doing.. Even if there are questions of integrity, corruption and the leader is a proven liar who continues to do so unchecked and if multiple sources are to be believed was happy to see piles of bodies in the streets.. Previously it was argued that the people of Hartlepool voted for Brexit and that this would be the acid test for that assumption, well this result proves that that assumption was clearly and resoundingly wrong. Would not totally ignore the effects of 'Boris getting brexit done' in a constituency that was one of the highest voting areas for that issue and the choice between Boris and Starmer given their thoughts on it.. How much it played will be no doubt bandied about.." Exactly | |||
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" Erm no it doesnt. If they voted in labour would be saying we were wrong about brexit. It's an endorsement of that decision. Ah, I see. The people of Hartlepool voted the Conservatives in because they didn't want to be embarrassed by being caught out having voted for Brexit. Wow! How embarrassing!! lol But not true lol.
Presumably you have asked then all?
I suppose with that answer you have then?
Nope but I'm not the one claiming my opinion is 'true '"Because it's not.  | |||
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"No I get it... I think... The voters have just endorsed their support for brexit by voting for the party that gave them brexit (again). Had they switched back to Labour or away from torys/brexit party that could have been viewed as admitting they may have been mistaken at the general election in voting in the Torys to deliver brexit. Isn't that what was being argued? " Not according to the Alex fan club. | |||
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"No I get it... I think... The voters have just endorsed their support for brexit by voting for the party that gave them brexit (again). Had they switched back to Labour or away from torys/brexit party that could have been viewed as admitting they may have been mistaken at the general election in voting in the Torys to deliver brexit. Isn't that what was being argued? " Maybe they weren't mistaken and still believe to leave the EU was the right way to vote? | |||
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"No I get it... I think... The voters have just endorsed their support for brexit by voting for the party that gave them brexit (again). Had they switched back to Labour or away from torys/brexit party that could have been viewed as admitting they may have been mistaken at the general election in voting in the Torys to deliver brexit. Isn't that what was being argued? " Not by me, it will have played a part in how some voted as to how many etc we might never know.. To simply say there's no correlation given the facts etc doesn't look at the issue objectively even if today it's just print on a screen.. | |||
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"No I get it... I think... The voters have just endorsed their support for brexit by voting for the party that gave them brexit (again). Had they switched back to Labour or away from torys/brexit party that could have been viewed as admitting they may have been mistaken at the general election in voting in the Torys to deliver brexit. Isn't that what was being argued? Not by me, it will have played a part in how some voted as to how many etc we might never know.. To simply say there's no correlation given the facts etc doesn't look at the issue objectively even if today it's just print on a screen.." Well I'm sure sky and BBC will be all over it with special hand picked voices off the street to tell whichever side of the story they want to tell. | |||
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"No I get it... I think... The voters have just endorsed their support for brexit by voting for the party that gave them brexit (again). Had they switched back to Labour or away from torys/brexit party that could have been viewed as admitting they may have been mistaken at the general election in voting in the Torys to deliver brexit. Isn't that what was being argued? Not by me, it will have played a part in how some voted as to how many etc we might never know.. To simply say there's no correlation given the facts etc doesn't look at the issue objectively even if today it's just print on a screen.. Well I'm sure sky and BBC will be all over it with special hand picked voices off the street to tell whichever side of the story they want to tell. " Perhaps.. | |||
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"Labour are done. Who is going to drag them out the doldrums? Can’t see anyone at the moment who has what’s needed to unite the party and appeal to their old voter base. SKS is done, labour will survive (somehow ) Of course they will survive. But they need some serious strategy change or they'll end up just another party. I guess there is one saving grace in that there's plenty of time for change but they need to do it quickly or as time goes on it'll become an even higher mountain. Do voters really analyse who they're voting for or just make a dnap decision on the whole Some will analyse and some won't. As an above poster has said, there are some real world problems out there and Labour have chosen the wrong route again. You would have thought that they may have learnt something from the past ie. stop trying to discredit the other side and actually come up with some real solutions to the issues. By trying to discredit at any chance, it creates a feeling of 'all they do is moan' amongst people and will likely push them towards your opposition. Maybe I have that wrong but that's how I and other I speak to see it. I don't think you are wrong at all. All Labour want to do is snipe at the Tories at every opportunity but put up very little policy of their own. You even see it on here. The regular Labour supporters are like a dog with a bone at the slightest (real or imagined) whiff of a Tory scandal yet say very little about their own party." exactly that all moan and call the opposition but don’t here any real policy’s | |||
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"You can’t run on policy if you have no policy! The last year has been so much focused on covid that this more moderate labour haven’t set out a post covid position, and that is where an actual government will have an advantage " Exactly and along with the schemes to help local businesses with loans and grants and the furlough scheme it seems the general public are happy with the Tories by the way they are gaining local councillors. | |||
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"You can’t run on policy if you have no policy! The last year has been so much focused on covid that this more moderate labour haven’t set out a post covid position, and that is where an actual government will have an advantage "
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"Long term, Labour need to work with other parties to get rid of FPTP. " Funny when they were in power they were happy with it, more and more labour supporters sound like spoilt kids | |||
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"Long term, Labour need to work with other parties to get rid of FPTP. " The two main parties will never vote to change the system that keeps one of them in power.. | |||
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"Hopefully the local council can build the good people of hartlepool another baby bank Sunny uplands " well they must think it’s sunny in Hartlepool Lionel lol | |||
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"Hopefully the local council can build the good people of hartlepool another baby bank Sunny uplands well they must think it’s sunny in Hartlepool Lionel lol" Prob because they have 2 jobs to every 1 person? | |||
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"Hopefully the local council can build the good people of hartlepool another baby bank Sunny uplands well they must think it’s sunny in Hartlepool Lionel lol Prob because they have 2 jobs to every 1 person?" your taking the piss instead of worrying why labour lost by almost twice the votes mate | |||
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"Its also very noticeable, that Socialist Democratic parties, are losing support all over Europe. Is there a common theme emerging here? I think people are just sick-to-death of being thrown from pillar to post by left wing politics. People want stability above all else. It's great having principles, but principles don't pay peoples mortgages. Except that historically there has never been a truly successful thoroughly right wing Government anywhere in Europe. They ultimately fail through corruption and dissatisfaction. Successful Governments tend to be associated with a happy and content population and in Europe right now they are centre / centre left. There is a first time for everything I suppose. We havemt had a left wing gmnt for nearly 80 years. Do you have... Any policies? I'm not....a politician. Not one? Think we might have identified the problem here chaps " | |||
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"As Labour can't really blame impending brexit or corbyn anymore looks like its back to the traditional blaming the media. " Some quiet introspection would help them better. | |||
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"Hopefully the local council can build the good people of hartlepool another baby bank Sunny uplands " The Labour Council don't assist with the Liverpool one. | |||
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"The loss of Hartlepool is going to pose that very question. Is Kier Starner appealing enough? Has Brexit diluted their traditional support? Their are 38 Labour seats where a Brexit shift would turn that seat from red to blue. The Labour woes of 2019 continue, and thats not good for UK politics. Labour are on the decline. I can't see any opposition to the Conservatives in my lifetime. The Tories have more money, more wealthy donors, they represent the interests of big business and the ultra wealthy. So they have the backing of Murdoch and the majority of the British press. And brexit successfully divided the working classes, which will take decades to heal. They will stay in power as long as the current electoral system is in place. " Oh no it has to be Money it can't be because Labour have abandoned its traditional "left wing" working class base for progressive identitarian politics at all... | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The loss of Hartlepool is going to pose that very question. Is Kier Starner appealing enough? Has Brexit diluted their traditional support? Their are 38 Labour seats where a Brexit shift would turn that seat from red to blue. The Labour woes of 2019 continue, and thats not good for UK politics. Labour are on the decline. I can't see any opposition to the Conservatives in my lifetime. The Tories have more money, more wealthy donors, they represent the interests of big business and the ultra wealthy. So they have the backing of Murdoch and the majority of the British press. And brexit successfully divided the working classes, which will take decades to heal. They will stay in power as long as the current electoral system is in place. Oh no it has to be Money it can't be because Labour have abandoned its traditional "left wing" working class base for progressive identitarian politics at all... "When did labour last get elected into government by appeasing its left wing working class base? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Long term, Labour need to work with other parties to get rid of FPTP. " They already did.. 5 May 2011 | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Into oblivion if we are lucky " Ah, so you want a one party state? Where the tories win every election without any real opposition? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The loss of Hartlepool is going to pose that very question. Is Kier Starner appealing enough? Has Brexit diluted their traditional support? Their are 38 Labour seats where a Brexit shift would turn that seat from red to blue. The Labour woes of 2019 continue, and thats not good for UK politics. Labour are on the decline. I can't see any opposition to the Conservatives in my lifetime. The Tories have more money, more wealthy donors, they represent the interests of big business and the ultra wealthy. So they have the backing of Murdoch and the majority of the British press. And brexit successfully divided the working classes, which will take decades to heal. They will stay in power as long as the current electoral system is in place. Oh no it has to be Money it can't be because Labour have abandoned its traditional "left wing" working class base for progressive identitarian politics at all...
When did labour last get elected into government by appeasing its left wing working class base? "Before my time Stop pandering to the "woke" left and you might get some votes back atleast Just shows the country rejects socialism (social policies are different from socialism) The only win you had in years was with Blair and he was pretty centre...maybe that should tell you something Get rid of the identitarian race/gender/sexuality grifters and you might get some votes back and not just votes from Uni students | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Big question is why hartlepool voted tory. Why would they vote Labour ? Why vote tory? Could go round in circles " Yep! | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The loss of Hartlepool is going to pose that very question. Is Kier Starner appealing enough? Has Brexit diluted their traditional support? Their are 38 Labour seats where a Brexit shift would turn that seat from red to blue. The Labour woes of 2019 continue, and thats not good for UK politics. Labour are on the decline. I can't see any opposition to the Conservatives in my lifetime. The Tories have more money, more wealthy donors, they represent the interests of big business and the ultra wealthy. So they have the backing of Murdoch and the majority of the British press. And brexit successfully divided the working classes, which will take decades to heal. They will stay in power as long as the current electoral system is in place. Oh no it has to be Money it can't be because Labour have abandoned its traditional "left wing" working class base for progressive identitarian politics at all...
When did labour last get elected into government by appeasing its left wing working class base? "1992 was a close run thing, labour under Kinnock were ahead in the polls, until he fucked it up in Sheffield | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The loss of Hartlepool is going to pose that very question. Is Kier Starner appealing enough? Has Brexit diluted their traditional support? Their are 38 Labour seats where a Brexit shift would turn that seat from red to blue. The Labour woes of 2019 continue, and thats not good for UK politics. Labour are on the decline. I can't see any opposition to the Conservatives in my lifetime. The Tories have more money, more wealthy donors, they represent the interests of big business and the ultra wealthy. So they have the backing of Murdoch and the majority of the British press. And brexit successfully divided the working classes, which will take decades to heal. They will stay in power as long as the current electoral system is in place. Oh no it has to be Money it can't be because Labour have abandoned its traditional "left wing" working class base for progressive identitarian politics at all...
When did labour last get elected into government by appeasing its left wing working class base?
Before my time
Stop pandering to the "woke" left and you might get some votes back atleast
Just shows the country rejects socialism (social policies are different from socialism)
The only win you had in years was with Blair and he was pretty centre...maybe that should tell you something
Get rid of the identitarian race/gender/sexuality grifters and you might get some votes back and not just votes from Uni students
"Who is the ‘woke left’ ?Do you know what the word Woke means? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The loss of Hartlepool is going to pose that very question. Is Kier Starner appealing enough? Has Brexit diluted their traditional support? Their are 38 Labour seats where a Brexit shift would turn that seat from red to blue. The Labour woes of 2019 continue, and thats not good for UK politics. Labour are on the decline. I can't see any opposition to the Conservatives in my lifetime. The Tories have more money, more wealthy donors, they represent the interests of big business and the ultra wealthy. So they have the backing of Murdoch and the majority of the British press. And brexit successfully divided the working classes, which will take decades to heal. They will stay in power as long as the current electoral system is in place. Oh no it has to be Money it can't be because Labour have abandoned its traditional "left wing" working class base for progressive identitarian politics at all...
When did labour last get elected into government by appeasing its left wing working class base?
Before my time
Stop pandering to the "woke" left and you might get some votes back atleast
Just shows the country rejects socialism (social policies are different from socialism)
The only win you had in years was with Blair and he was pretty centre...maybe that should tell you something
Get rid of the identitarian race/gender/sexuality grifters and you might get some votes back and not just votes from Uni students
Who is the ‘woke left’ ?Do you know what the word Woke means? "I am very aware thanks, probably more than you are  | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Into oblivion if we are lucky Ah, so you want a one party state? Where the tories win every election without any real opposition? " its not looking like labour are the real opposition tho that’s the big problem now | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Into oblivion if we are lucky Ah, so you want a one party state? Where the tories win every election without any real opposition? its not looking like labour are the real opposition tho that’s the big problem now " I agree, which has to be a worry | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The loss of Hartlepool is going to pose that very question. Is Kier Starner appealing enough? Has Brexit diluted their traditional support? Their are 38 Labour seats where a Brexit shift would turn that seat from red to blue. The Labour woes of 2019 continue, and thats not good for UK politics. Labour are on the decline. I can't see any opposition to the Conservatives in my lifetime. The Tories have more money, more wealthy donors, they represent the interests of big business and the ultra wealthy. So they have the backing of Murdoch and the majority of the British press. And brexit successfully divided the working classes, which will take decades to heal. They will stay in power as long as the current electoral system is in place. Oh no it has to be Money it can't be because Labour have abandoned its traditional "left wing" working class base for progressive identitarian politics at all...
When did labour last get elected into government by appeasing its left wing working class base?
Before my time
Stop pandering to the "woke" left and you might get some votes back atleast
Just shows the country rejects socialism (social policies are different from socialism)
The only win you had in years was with Blair and he was pretty centre...maybe that should tell you something
Get rid of the identitarian race/gender/sexuality grifters and you might get some votes back and not just votes from Uni students
Who is the ‘woke left’ ?Do you know what the word Woke means? "Keep on pretending to be offended, and keep on losing | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The loss of Hartlepool is going to pose that very question. Is Kier Starner appealing enough? Has Brexit diluted their traditional support? Their are 38 Labour seats where a Brexit shift would turn that seat from red to blue. The Labour woes of 2019 continue, and thats not good for UK politics. Labour are on the decline. I can't see any opposition to the Conservatives in my lifetime. The Tories have more money, more wealthy donors, they represent the interests of big business and the ultra wealthy. So they have the backing of Murdoch and the majority of the British press. And brexit successfully divided the working classes, which will take decades to heal. They will stay in power as long as the current electoral system is in place. Oh no it has to be Money it can't be because Labour have abandoned its traditional "left wing" working class base for progressive identitarian politics at all...
When did labour last get elected into government by appeasing its left wing working class base?
Before my time
Stop pandering to the "woke" left and you might get some votes back atleast
Just shows the country rejects socialism (social policies are different from socialism)
The only win you had in years was with Blair and he was pretty centre...maybe that should tell you something
Get rid of the identitarian race/gender/sexuality grifters and you might get some votes back and not just votes from Uni students
Who is the ‘woke left’ ?Do you know what the word Woke means?
I am very aware thanks, probably more than you are "That is an arrogant assumption, anyway, who are the ‘woke left’ | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The loss of Hartlepool is going to pose that very question. Is Kier Starner appealing enough? Has Brexit diluted their traditional support? Their are 38 Labour seats where a Brexit shift would turn that seat from red to blue. The Labour woes of 2019 continue, and thats not good for UK politics. Labour are on the decline. I can't see any opposition to the Conservatives in my lifetime. The Tories have more money, more wealthy donors, they represent the interests of big business and the ultra wealthy. So they have the backing of Murdoch and the majority of the British press. And brexit successfully divided the working classes, which will take decades to heal. They will stay in power as long as the current electoral system is in place. Oh no it has to be Money it can't be because Labour have abandoned its traditional "left wing" working class base for progressive identitarian politics at all...
When did labour last get elected into government by appeasing its left wing working class base?
Before my time
Stop pandering to the "woke" left and you might get some votes back atleast
Just shows the country rejects socialism (social policies are different from socialism)
The only win you had in years was with Blair and he was pretty centre...maybe that should tell you something
Get rid of the identitarian race/gender/sexuality grifters and you might get some votes back and not just votes from Uni students
Who is the ‘woke left’ ?Do you know what the word Woke means?
Keep on pretending to be offended, and keep on losing "I am proud to be woke and anti racist , | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The loss of Hartlepool is going to pose that very question. Is Kier Starner appealing enough? Has Brexit diluted their traditional support? Their are 38 Labour seats where a Brexit shift would turn that seat from red to blue. The Labour woes of 2019 continue, and thats not good for UK politics. Labour are on the decline. I can't see any opposition to the Conservatives in my lifetime. The Tories have more money, more wealthy donors, they represent the interests of big business and the ultra wealthy. So they have the backing of Murdoch and the majority of the British press. And brexit successfully divided the working classes, which will take decades to heal. They will stay in power as long as the current electoral system is in place. Oh no it has to be Money it can't be because Labour have abandoned its traditional "left wing" working class base for progressive identitarian politics at all...
When did labour last get elected into government by appeasing its left wing working class base?
Before my time
Stop pandering to the "woke" left and you might get some votes back atleast
Just shows the country rejects socialism (social policies are different from socialism)
The only win you had in years was with Blair and he was pretty centre...maybe that should tell you something
Get rid of the identitarian race/gender/sexuality grifters and you might get some votes back and not just votes from Uni students
Who is the ‘woke left’ ?Do you know what the word Woke means?
I am very aware thanks, probably more than you are
That is an arrogant assumption, anyway, who are the ‘woke left’ "If you dont know thats your problem not mine
I've been around this stuff since GamerGate.
If you re read my post i actually mention who woke people are
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Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The loss of Hartlepool is going to pose that very question. Is Kier Starner appealing enough? Has Brexit diluted their traditional support? Their are 38 Labour seats where a Brexit shift would turn that seat from red to blue. The Labour woes of 2019 continue, and thats not good for UK politics. Labour are on the decline. I can't see any opposition to the Conservatives in my lifetime. The Tories have more money, more wealthy donors, they represent the interests of big business and the ultra wealthy. So they have the backing of Murdoch and the majority of the British press. And brexit successfully divided the working classes, which will take decades to heal. They will stay in power as long as the current electoral system is in place. Oh no it has to be Money it can't be because Labour have abandoned its traditional "left wing" working class base for progressive identitarian politics at all...
When did labour last get elected into government by appeasing its left wing working class base?
Before my time
Stop pandering to the "woke" left and you might get some votes back atleast
Just shows the country rejects socialism (social policies are different from socialism)
The only win you had in years was with Blair and he was pretty centre...maybe that should tell you something
Get rid of the identitarian race/gender/sexuality grifters and you might get some votes back and not just votes from Uni students
Who is the ‘woke left’ ?Do you know what the word Woke means?
Keep on pretending to be offended, and keep on losing
I am proud to be woke and anti racist , "Seems to me the anti-racists are the real racists | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The loss of Hartlepool is going to pose that very question. Is Kier Starner appealing enough? Has Brexit diluted their traditional support? Their are 38 Labour seats where a Brexit shift would turn that seat from red to blue. The Labour woes of 2019 continue, and thats not good for UK politics. Labour are on the decline. I can't see any opposition to the Conservatives in my lifetime. The Tories have more money, more wealthy donors, they represent the interests of big business and the ultra wealthy. So they have the backing of Murdoch and the majority of the British press. And brexit successfully divided the working classes, which will take decades to heal. They will stay in power as long as the current electoral system is in place. Oh no it has to be Money it can't be because Labour have abandoned its traditional "left wing" working class base for progressive identitarian politics at all...
When did labour last get elected into government by appeasing its left wing working class base?
Before my time
Stop pandering to the "woke" left and you might get some votes back atleast
Just shows the country rejects socialism (social policies are different from socialism)
The only win you had in years was with Blair and he was pretty centre...maybe that should tell you something
Get rid of the identitarian race/gender/sexuality grifters and you might get some votes back and not just votes from Uni students
Who is the ‘woke left’ ?Do you know what the word Woke means?
Keep on pretending to be offended, and keep on losing
I am proud to be woke and anti racist , "And that is why you fail | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The loss of Hartlepool is going to pose that very question. Is Kier Starner appealing enough? Has Brexit diluted their traditional support? Their are 38 Labour seats where a Brexit shift would turn that seat from red to blue. The Labour woes of 2019 continue, and thats not good for UK politics. Labour are on the decline. I can't see any opposition to the Conservatives in my lifetime. The Tories have more money, more wealthy donors, they represent the interests of big business and the ultra wealthy. So they have the backing of Murdoch and the majority of the British press. And brexit successfully divided the working classes, which will take decades to heal. They will stay in power as long as the current electoral system is in place. Oh no it has to be Money it can't be because Labour have abandoned its traditional "left wing" working class base for progressive identitarian politics at all...
When did labour last get elected into government by appeasing its left wing working class base?
Before my time
Stop pandering to the "woke" left and you might get some votes back atleast
Just shows the country rejects socialism (social policies are different from socialism)
The only win you had in years was with Blair and he was pretty centre...maybe that should tell you something
Get rid of the identitarian race/gender/sexuality grifters and you might get some votes back and not just votes from Uni students
Who is the ‘woke left’ ?Do you know what the word Woke means?
Keep on pretending to be offended, and keep on losing
I am proud to be woke and anti racist ,
And that is why you fail "Fail at what? Do you think I should try to be a bit more racist to succeed? It’s an interesting idea, | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The loss of Hartlepool is going to pose that very question. Is Kier Starner appealing enough? Has Brexit diluted their traditional support? Their are 38 Labour seats where a Brexit shift would turn that seat from red to blue. The Labour woes of 2019 continue, and thats not good for UK politics. Labour are on the decline. I can't see any opposition to the Conservatives in my lifetime. The Tories have more money, more wealthy donors, they represent the interests of big business and the ultra wealthy. So they have the backing of Murdoch and the majority of the British press. And brexit successfully divided the working classes, which will take decades to heal. They will stay in power as long as the current electoral system is in place. Oh no it has to be Money it can't be because Labour have abandoned its traditional "left wing" working class base for progressive identitarian politics at all...
When did labour last get elected into government by appeasing its left wing working class base?
Before my time
Stop pandering to the "woke" left and you might get some votes back atleast
Just shows the country rejects socialism (social policies are different from socialism)
The only win you had in years was with Blair and he was pretty centre...maybe that should tell you something
Get rid of the identitarian race/gender/sexuality grifters and you might get some votes back and not just votes from Uni students
Who is the ‘woke left’ ?Do you know what the word Woke means?
Keep on pretending to be offended, and keep on losing
I am proud to be woke and anti racist ,
Seems to me the anti-racists are the real racists "Seems to me you haven’t got a clue what your taking about , how can being anti racist be seen to be racist ? The word woke had been hijacked and used as an insult by the right wing racists , let’s stick to the true meaning of the word | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
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Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Labour should give up and disband. " They might end up splitting into 2 parties | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
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Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
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Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The loss of Hartlepool is going to pose that very question. Is Kier Starner appealing enough? Has Brexit diluted their traditional support? Their are 38 Labour seats where a Brexit shift would turn that seat from red to blue. The Labour woes of 2019 continue, and thats not good for UK politics. Labour are on the decline. I can't see any opposition to the Conservatives in my lifetime. The Tories have more money, more wealthy donors, they represent the interests of big business and the ultra wealthy. So they have the backing of Murdoch and the majority of the British press. And brexit successfully divided the working classes, which will take decades to heal. They will stay in power as long as the current electoral system is in place. Oh no it has to be Money it can't be because Labour have abandoned its traditional "left wing" working class base for progressive identitarian politics at all...
When did labour last get elected into government by appeasing its left wing working class base?
Before my time
Stop pandering to the "woke" left and you might get some votes back atleast
Just shows the country rejects socialism (social policies are different from socialism)
The only win you had in years was with Blair and he was pretty centre...maybe that should tell you something
Get rid of the identitarian race/gender/sexuality grifters and you might get some votes back and not just votes from Uni students
Who is the ‘woke left’ ?Do you know what the word Woke means?
Keep on pretending to be offended, and keep on losing
I am proud to be woke and anti racist ,
And that is why you fail
Fail at what? Do you think I should try to be a bit more racist to succeed? It’s an interesting idea, "Because the single mum on twenty uncertain minimum wage hours in the amazan warehouse has a thousand other priorities than virtue signalling nonsense. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The loss of Hartlepool is going to pose that very question. Is Kier Starner appealing enough? Has Brexit diluted their traditional support? Their are 38 Labour seats where a Brexit shift would turn that seat from red to blue. The Labour woes of 2019 continue, and thats not good for UK politics. Labour are on the decline. I can't see any opposition to the Conservatives in my lifetime. The Tories have more money, more wealthy donors, they represent the interests of big business and the ultra wealthy. So they have the backing of Murdoch and the majority of the British press. And brexit successfully divided the working classes, which will take decades to heal. They will stay in power as long as the current electoral system is in place. Oh no it has to be Money it can't be because Labour have abandoned its traditional "left wing" working class base for progressive identitarian politics at all...
When did labour last get elected into government by appeasing its left wing working class base?
Before my time
Stop pandering to the "woke" left and you might get some votes back atleast
Just shows the country rejects socialism (social policies are different from socialism)
The only win you had in years was with Blair and he was pretty centre...maybe that should tell you something
Get rid of the identitarian race/gender/sexuality grifters and you might get some votes back and not just votes from Uni students
Who is the ‘woke left’ ?Do you know what the word Woke means?
Keep on pretending to be offended, and keep on losing
I am proud to be woke and anti racist ,
Seems to me the anti-racists are the real racists
Seems to me you haven’t got a clue what your taking about , how can being anti racist be seen to be racist ? The word woke had been hijacked and used as an insult by the right wing racists , let’s stick to the true meaning of the word "When was it hijacked? Bare in mind as i said i have been interesteed in this stuff since around Gamergate I'm not really right wing, nice try though. Not that it should be a problem being right wing in the first place. I know you want to move the overton window so that if you vote tory you are essentially a Facist though Plus right wing on what? Social policies, Economics? Woke people tend to use the bigotry of low expectations | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"There you go: ___________________________ woke verb past of wake. adjectiveinformal adjective: woke; comparative adjective: woker; superlative adjective: wokest alert to injustice in society, especially racism. ________________________________ Maybe we can move on to the question the OP asked?" Woke adjectiveINFORMAL alert to injustice in society, especially racism. "we need to stay angry, and stay woke" Oxford dictionary. No, threads are allowed to go off topic, | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The loss of Hartlepool is going to pose that very question. Is Kier Starner appealing enough? Has Brexit diluted their traditional support? Their are 38 Labour seats where a Brexit shift would turn that seat from red to blue. The Labour woes of 2019 continue, and thats not good for UK politics. Labour are on the decline. I can't see any opposition to the Conservatives in my lifetime. The Tories have more money, more wealthy donors, they represent the interests of big business and the ultra wealthy. So they have the backing of Murdoch and the majority of the British press. And brexit successfully divided the working classes, which will take decades to heal. They will stay in power as long as the current electoral system is in place. Oh no it has to be Money it can't be because Labour have abandoned its traditional "left wing" working class base for progressive identitarian politics at all...
When did labour last get elected into government by appeasing its left wing working class base?
Before my time
Stop pandering to the "woke" left and you might get some votes back atleast
Just shows the country rejects socialism (social policies are different from socialism)
The only win you had in years was with Blair and he was pretty centre...maybe that should tell you something
Get rid of the identitarian race/gender/sexuality grifters and you might get some votes back and not just votes from Uni students
Who is the ‘woke left’ ?Do you know what the word Woke means?
Keep on pretending to be offended, and keep on losing
I am proud to be woke and anti racist ,
Seems to me the anti-racists are the real racists
Seems to me you haven’t got a clue what your taking about , how can being anti racist be seen to be racist ? The word woke had been hijacked and used as an insult by the right wing racists , let’s stick to the true meaning of the word
When was it hijacked? Bare in mind as i said i have been interesteed in this stuff since around Gamergate
I'm not really right wing, nice try though. Not that it should be a problem being right wing in the first place. I know you want to move the overton window so that if you vote tory you are essentially a Facist though
Plus right wing on what? Social policies, Economics?
Woke people tend to use the bigotry of low expectations"What is your description and understanding of the word ‘Woke ‘ | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Into oblivion if we are lucky Ah, so you want a one party state? Where the tories win every election without any real opposition? " No but would be very happy if Labour wasn’t the opposition ,they are soooo out of touch with what the majority want | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"There you go: ___________________________ woke verb past of wake. adjectiveinformal adjective: woke; comparative adjective: woker; superlative adjective: wokest alert to injustice in society, especially racism. ________________________________ Maybe we can move on to the question the OP asked? Woke adjectiveINFORMAL alert to injustice in society, especially racism. "we need to stay angry, and stay woke" Oxford dictionary. No, threads are allowed to go off topic, " that’s good isn’t it I just don’t get why it’s specifically racism ? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The loss of Hartlepool is going to pose that very question. Is Kier Starner appealing enough? Has Brexit diluted their traditional support? Their are 38 Labour seats where a Brexit shift would turn that seat from red to blue. The Labour woes of 2019 continue, and thats not good for UK politics. Labour are on the decline. I can't see any opposition to the Conservatives in my lifetime. The Tories have more money, more wealthy donors, they represent the interests of big business and the ultra wealthy. So they have the backing of Murdoch and the majority of the British press. And brexit successfully divided the working classes, which will take decades to heal. They will stay in power as long as the current electoral system is in place. Oh no it has to be Money it can't be because Labour have abandoned its traditional "left wing" working class base for progressive identitarian politics at all...
When did labour last get elected into government by appeasing its left wing working class base?
Before my time
Stop pandering to the "woke" left and you might get some votes back atleast
Just shows the country rejects socialism (social policies are different from socialism)
The only win you had in years was with Blair and he was pretty centre...maybe that should tell you something
Get rid of the identitarian race/gender/sexuality grifters and you might get some votes back and not just votes from Uni students
Who is the ‘woke left’ ?Do you know what the word Woke means?
Keep on pretending to be offended, and keep on losing
I am proud to be woke and anti racist ,
And that is why you fail
Fail at what? Do you think I should try to be a bit more racist to succeed? It’s an interesting idea,
Because the single mum on twenty uncertain minimum wage hours in the amazan warehouse has a thousand other priorities than virtue signalling nonsense. "What has that got to do with being woke? I don’t understand why a single mum working at Amazon would want to be against anti racism | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The loss of Hartlepool is going to pose that very question. Is Kier Starner appealing enough? Has Brexit diluted their traditional support? Their are 38 Labour seats where a Brexit shift would turn that seat from red to blue. The Labour woes of 2019 continue, and thats not good for UK politics. Labour are on the decline. I can't see any opposition to the Conservatives in my lifetime. The Tories have more money, more wealthy donors, they represent the interests of big business and the ultra wealthy. So they have the backing of Murdoch and the majority of the British press. And brexit successfully divided the working classes, which will take decades to heal. They will stay in power as long as the current electoral system is in place. Oh no it has to be Money it can't be because Labour have abandoned its traditional "left wing" working class base for progressive identitarian politics at all...
When did labour last get elected into government by appeasing its left wing working class base?
Before my time
Stop pandering to the "woke" left and you might get some votes back atleast
Just shows the country rejects socialism (social policies are different from socialism)
The only win you had in years was with Blair and he was pretty centre...maybe that should tell you something
Get rid of the identitarian race/gender/sexuality grifters and you might get some votes back and not just votes from Uni students
Who is the ‘woke left’ ?Do you know what the word Woke means?
Keep on pretending to be offended, and keep on losing
I am proud to be woke and anti racist ,
Seems to me the anti-racists are the real racists
Seems to me you haven’t got a clue what your taking about , how can being anti racist be seen to be racist ? The word woke had been hijacked and used as an insult by the right wing racists , let’s stick to the true meaning of the word
When was it hijacked? Bare in mind as i said i have been interesteed in this stuff since around Gamergate
I'm not really right wing, nice try though. Not that it should be a problem being right wing in the first place. I know you want to move the overton window so that if you vote tory you are essentially a Facist though
Plus right wing on what? Social policies, Economics?
Woke people tend to use the bigotry of low expectations
What is your description and understanding of the word ‘Woke ‘ "Are you really still banging on about this? i have never seen anyone so obsessed with the meaning of one word. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"There you go: ___________________________ woke verb past of wake. adjectiveinformal adjective: woke; comparative adjective: woker; superlative adjective: wokest alert to injustice in society, especially racism. ________________________________ Maybe we can move on to the question the OP asked? Woke adjectiveINFORMAL alert to injustice in society, especially racism. "we need to stay angry, and stay woke" Oxford dictionary. No, threads are allowed to go off topic, that’s good isn’t it I just don’t get why it’s specifically racism ?" It isn’t, it’s especially racism, | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The loss of Hartlepool is going to pose that very question. Is Kier Starner appealing enough? Has Brexit diluted their traditional support? Their are 38 Labour seats where a Brexit shift would turn that seat from red to blue. The Labour woes of 2019 continue, and thats not good for UK politics. Labour are on the decline. I can't see any opposition to the Conservatives in my lifetime. The Tories have more money, more wealthy donors, they represent the interests of big business and the ultra wealthy. So they have the backing of Murdoch and the majority of the British press. And brexit successfully divided the working classes, which will take decades to heal. They will stay in power as long as the current electoral system is in place. Oh no it has to be Money it can't be because Labour have abandoned its traditional "left wing" working class base for progressive identitarian politics at all...
When did labour last get elected into government by appeasing its left wing working class base?
Before my time
Stop pandering to the "woke" left and you might get some votes back atleast
Just shows the country rejects socialism (social policies are different from socialism)
The only win you had in years was with Blair and he was pretty centre...maybe that should tell you something
Get rid of the identitarian race/gender/sexuality grifters and you might get some votes back and not just votes from Uni students
Who is the ‘woke left’ ?Do you know what the word Woke means?
Keep on pretending to be offended, and keep on losing
I am proud to be woke and anti racist ,
Seems to me the anti-racists are the real racists
Seems to me you haven’t got a clue what your taking about , how can being anti racist be seen to be racist ? The word woke had been hijacked and used as an insult by the right wing racists , let’s stick to the true meaning of the word
When was it hijacked? Bare in mind as i said i have been interesteed in this stuff since around Gamergate
I'm not really right wing, nice try though. Not that it should be a problem being right wing in the first place. I know you want to move the overton window so that if you vote tory you are essentially a Facist though
Plus right wing on what? Social policies, Economics?
Woke people tend to use the bigotry of low expectations
What is your description and understanding of the word ‘Woke ‘ Are you really still banging on about this? i have never seen anyone so obsessed with the meaning of one word. "I guess you don’t have a description that suits your agenda , give it a try | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The loss of Hartlepool is going to pose that very question. Is Kier Starner appealing enough? Has Brexit diluted their traditional support? Their are 38 Labour seats where a Brexit shift would turn that seat from red to blue. The Labour woes of 2019 continue, and thats not good for UK politics. Labour are on the decline. I can't see any opposition to the Conservatives in my lifetime. The Tories have more money, more wealthy donors, they represent the interests of big business and the ultra wealthy. So they have the backing of Murdoch and the majority of the British press. And brexit successfully divided the working classes, which will take decades to heal. They will stay in power as long as the current electoral system is in place. Oh no it has to be Money it can't be because Labour have abandoned its traditional "left wing" working class base for progressive identitarian politics at all...
When did labour last get elected into government by appeasing its left wing working class base?
Before my time
Stop pandering to the "woke" left and you might get some votes back atleast
Just shows the country rejects socialism (social policies are different from socialism)
The only win you had in years was with Blair and he was pretty centre...maybe that should tell you something
Get rid of the identitarian race/gender/sexuality grifters and you might get some votes back and not just votes from Uni students
Who is the ‘woke left’ ?Do you know what the word Woke means?
Keep on pretending to be offended, and keep on losing
I am proud to be woke and anti racist ,
And that is why you fail
Fail at what? Do you think I should try to be a bit more racist to succeed? It’s an interesting idea,
Because the single mum on twenty uncertain minimum wage hours in the amazan warehouse has a thousand other priorities than virtue signalling nonsense.
What has that got to do with being woke? I don’t understand why a single mum working at Amazon would want to be against anti racism "Again, that is why you fail | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"There you go: ___________________________ woke verb past of wake. adjectiveinformal adjective: woke; comparative adjective: woker; superlative adjective: wokest alert to injustice in society, especially racism. ________________________________ Maybe we can move on to the question the OP asked? Woke adjectiveINFORMAL alert to injustice in society, especially racism. "we need to stay angry, and stay woke" Oxford dictionary. No, threads are allowed to go off topic, that’s good isn’t it I just don’t get why it’s specifically racism ? It isn’t, it’s especially racism, " sorry my fault but still why especially then doesn’t that come under injustice in society? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The loss of Hartlepool is going to pose that very question. Is Kier Starner appealing enough? Has Brexit diluted their traditional support? Their are 38 Labour seats where a Brexit shift would turn that seat from red to blue. The Labour woes of 2019 continue, and thats not good for UK politics. Labour are on the decline. I can't see any opposition to the Conservatives in my lifetime. The Tories have more money, more wealthy donors, they represent the interests of big business and the ultra wealthy. So they have the backing of Murdoch and the majority of the British press. And brexit successfully divided the working classes, which will take decades to heal. They will stay in power as long as the current electoral system is in place. Oh no it has to be Money it can't be because Labour have abandoned its traditional "left wing" working class base for progressive identitarian politics at all...
When did labour last get elected into government by appeasing its left wing working class base?
Before my time
Stop pandering to the "woke" left and you might get some votes back atleast
Just shows the country rejects socialism (social policies are different from socialism)
The only win you had in years was with Blair and he was pretty centre...maybe that should tell you something
Get rid of the identitarian race/gender/sexuality grifters and you might get some votes back and not just votes from Uni students
Who is the ‘woke left’ ?Do you know what the word Woke means?
Keep on pretending to be offended, and keep on losing
I am proud to be woke and anti racist ,
And that is why you fail
Fail at what? Do you think I should try to be a bit more racist to succeed? It’s an interesting idea,
Because the single mum on twenty uncertain minimum wage hours in the amazan warehouse has a thousand other priorities than virtue signalling nonsense.
What has that got to do with being woke? I don’t understand why a single mum working at Amazon would want to be against anti racism
Again, that is why you fail "Again, you can’t answer the question,you use woke as an insult because you don’t understand it’s meaning . Btw, what have I failed at ? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The loss of Hartlepool is going to pose that very question. Is Kier Starner appealing enough? Has Brexit diluted their traditional support? Their are 38 Labour seats where a Brexit shift would turn that seat from red to blue. The Labour woes of 2019 continue, and thats not good for UK politics. Labour are on the decline. I can't see any opposition to the Conservatives in my lifetime. The Tories have more money, more wealthy donors, they represent the interests of big business and the ultra wealthy. So they have the backing of Murdoch and the majority of the British press. And brexit successfully divided the working classes, which will take decades to heal. They will stay in power as long as the current electoral system is in place. Oh no it has to be Money it can't be because Labour have abandoned its traditional "left wing" working class base for progressive identitarian politics at all...
When did labour last get elected into government by appeasing its left wing working class base?
Before my time
Stop pandering to the "woke" left and you might get some votes back atleast
Just shows the country rejects socialism (social policies are different from socialism)
The only win you had in years was with Blair and he was pretty centre...maybe that should tell you something
Get rid of the identitarian race/gender/sexuality grifters and you might get some votes back and not just votes from Uni students
Who is the ‘woke left’ ?Do you know what the word Woke means?
Keep on pretending to be offended, and keep on losing
I am proud to be woke and anti racist ,
Seems to me the anti-racists are the real racists
Seems to me you haven’t got a clue what your taking about , how can being anti racist be seen to be racist ? The word woke had been hijacked and used as an insult by the right wing racists , let’s stick to the true meaning of the word
When was it hijacked? Bare in mind as i said i have been interesteed in this stuff since around Gamergate
I'm not really right wing, nice try though. Not that it should be a problem being right wing in the first place. I know you want to move the overton window so that if you vote tory you are essentially a Facist though
Plus right wing on what? Social policies, Economics?
Woke people tend to use the bigotry of low expectations
What is your description and understanding of the word ‘Woke ‘ Are you really still banging on about this? i have never seen anyone so obsessed with the meaning of one word. "Hes trying to get some sort of snide Gotcha only tactic he has | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"There you go: ___________________________ woke verb past of wake. adjectiveinformal adjective: woke; comparative adjective: woker; superlative adjective: wokest alert to injustice in society, especially racism. ________________________________ Maybe we can move on to the question the OP asked? Woke adjectiveINFORMAL alert to injustice in society, especially racism. "we need to stay angry, and stay woke" Oxford dictionary. No, threads are allowed to go off topic, that’s good isn’t it I just don’t get why it’s specifically racism ? It isn’t, it’s especially racism, sorry my fault but still why especially then doesn’t that come under injustice in society?" I am not sure what you mean mate. For some reason certain people have decided to use the word as an insult , I would love to know why . | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Hes trying to get some sort of snide Gotcha only tactic he has "Glad someone is woke to that. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
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Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The loss of Hartlepool is going to pose that very question. Is Kier Starner appealing enough? Has Brexit diluted their traditional support? Their are 38 Labour seats where a Brexit shift would turn that seat from red to blue. The Labour woes of 2019 continue, and thats not good for UK politics. Labour are on the decline. I can't see any opposition to the Conservatives in my lifetime. The Tories have more money, more wealthy donors, they represent the interests of big business and the ultra wealthy. So they have the backing of Murdoch and the majority of the British press. And brexit successfully divided the working classes, which will take decades to heal. They will stay in power as long as the current electoral system is in place. Oh no it has to be Money it can't be because Labour have abandoned its traditional "left wing" working class base for progressive identitarian politics at all...
When did labour last get elected into government by appeasing its left wing working class base?
Before my time
Stop pandering to the "woke" left and you might get some votes back atleast
Just shows the country rejects socialism (social policies are different from socialism)
The only win you had in years was with Blair and he was pretty centre...maybe that should tell you something
Get rid of the identitarian race/gender/sexuality grifters and you might get some votes back and not just votes from Uni students
Who is the ‘woke left’ ?Do you know what the word Woke means?
Keep on pretending to be offended, and keep on losing
I am proud to be woke and anti racist ,
Seems to me the anti-racists are the real racists
Seems to me you haven’t got a clue what your taking about , how can being anti racist be seen to be racist ? The word woke had been hijacked and used as an insult by the right wing racists , let’s stick to the true meaning of the word
When was it hijacked? Bare in mind as i said i have been interesteed in this stuff since around Gamergate
I'm not really right wing, nice try though. Not that it should be a problem being right wing in the first place. I know you want to move the overton window so that if you vote tory you are essentially a Facist though
Plus right wing on what? Social policies, Economics?
Woke people tend to use the bigotry of low expectations
What is your description and understanding of the word ‘Woke ‘ Are you really still banging on about this? i have never seen anyone so obsessed with the meaning of one word.
Hes trying to get some sort of snide Gotcha
only tactic he has "No offence but you obviously don’t have a description of the word that suits your agenda. It’s probably best if we stick to the Oxford dictionary is you can’t find an alternative | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"A bit off topic I know, but does anybody have a link to where the Labour party have published their game plan to combat the racist antisemitism that the European Court of Human Rights found them culpable of last year? They were legally obliged to draft an action plan to tackle the unlawful act findings, but I can't the report. Thanks." It’s on google, | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The loss of Hartlepool is going to pose that very question. Is Kier Starner appealing enough? Has Brexit diluted their traditional support? Their are 38 Labour seats where a Brexit shift would turn that seat from red to blue. The Labour woes of 2019 continue, and thats not good for UK politics. Labour are on the decline. I can't see any opposition to the Conservatives in my lifetime. The Tories have more money, more wealthy donors, they represent the interests of big business and the ultra wealthy. So they have the backing of Murdoch and the majority of the British press. And brexit successfully divided the working classes, which will take decades to heal. They will stay in power as long as the current electoral system is in place. Oh no it has to be Money it can't be because Labour have abandoned its traditional "left wing" working class base for progressive identitarian politics at all...
When did labour last get elected into government by appeasing its left wing working class base?
Before my time
Stop pandering to the "woke" left and you might get some votes back atleast
Just shows the country rejects socialism (social policies are different from socialism)
The only win you had in years was with Blair and he was pretty centre...maybe that should tell you something
Get rid of the identitarian race/gender/sexuality grifters and you might get some votes back and not just votes from Uni students
Who is the ‘woke left’ ?Do you know what the word Woke means?
Keep on pretending to be offended, and keep on losing
I am proud to be woke and anti racist ,
Seems to me the anti-racists are the real racists
Seems to me you haven’t got a clue what your taking about , how can being anti racist be seen to be racist ? The word woke had been hijacked and used as an insult by the right wing racists , let’s stick to the true meaning of the word
When was it hijacked? Bare in mind as i said i have been interesteed in this stuff since around Gamergate
I'm not really right wing, nice try though. Not that it should be a problem being right wing in the first place. I know you want to move the overton window so that if you vote tory you are essentially a Facist though
Plus right wing on what? Social policies, Economics?
Woke people tend to use the bigotry of low expectations
What is your description and understanding of the word ‘Woke ‘ Are you really still banging on about this? i have never seen anyone so obsessed with the meaning of one word.
Hes trying to get some sort of snide Gotcha
only tactic he has "Well i wish he would start a thread about it and stop fucking every other thread up with it. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"A bit off topic I know, but does anybody have a link to where the Labour party have published their game plan to combat the racist antisemitism that the European Court of Human Rights found them culpable of last year? They were legally obliged to draft an action plan to tackle the unlawful act findings, but I can't the report. Thanks." I will message it to you. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"There you go: ___________________________ woke verb past of wake. adjectiveinformal adjective: woke; comparative adjective: woker; superlative adjective: wokest alert to injustice in society, especially racism. ________________________________ Maybe we can move on to the question the OP asked? Woke adjectiveINFORMAL alert to injustice in society, especially racism. "we need to stay angry, and stay woke" Oxford dictionary. No, threads are allowed to go off topic, that’s good isn’t it I just don’t get why it’s specifically racism ? It isn’t, it’s especially racism, sorry my fault but still why especially then doesn’t that come under injustice in society? I am not sure what you mean mate. For some reason certain people have decided to use the word as an insult , I would love to know why . "I had never heard of the term a few months back I had to ask on here what it ment lol I just don’t understand the bit about especially racism I would have thought alert to injustice in society would of covered that | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
