I suspect this will garner a few headlines
Despite it being banned ,100s turned up and there were several arrests,
The police are being heavily criticised for not engaging.
There is also a side issue I'd a law which is apparently going through,which is going to make it much harder to protest.
A QC has just been talking about it in 5 live. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I suspect this will garner a few headlines
Despite it being banned ,100s turned up and there were several arrests,
The police are being heavily criticised for not engaging.
There is also a side issue I'd a law which is apparently going through,which is going to make it much harder to protest.
A QC has just been talking about it in 5 live."
Harder to protest in general
Or during covid? |
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The Met have played an absolute shocker here. An absolute PR disaster. Kettling those at the vigil and the mm using force to remove people. An absolute shit show. They pick and choose which laws they wish to enforce. Cunts |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
i just woke up from a nap so not up to date but saw they had been banned and wondered how it would go down if there were arrests
particularly since last weekend football fans were given a police escort from govan to george square for an illegal gathering where there was mass vandalism and yet today police publicised if people were at either gathering at govan or george square there would be arrests
maybe its because there was advance notice this time , we will know in a few weeks time when the title party is planned  |
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"I suspect this will garner a few headlines
Despite it being banned ,100s turned up and there were several arrests,
The police are being heavily criticised for not engaging.
There is also a side issue I'd a law which is apparently going through,which is going to make it much harder to protest.
A QC has just been talking about it in 5 live.
Harder to protest in general
Or during covid?"
I think in general.
I hadn't heard about it before so dont know too much about it tbh |
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The Met Police could have played this so differently. Ok, the people who were there shouldn’t have been there but to go in so heavy handed is in my opinion so wrong. Especially as it’s because of one of their officers the people were there in the first place. They could have stepped back, there wasn’t going to be any violence - it was peaceful gathering
J x |
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"The Met have played an absolute shocker here. An absolute PR disaster. Kettling those at the vigil and the mm using force to remove people. An absolute shit show. They pick and choose which laws they wish to enforce. Cunts"
They certainly havent come out of it well |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I suspect this will garner a few headlines
Despite it being banned ,100s turned up and there were several arrests,
The police are being heavily criticised for not engaging.
There is also a side issue I'd a law which is apparently going through,which is going to make it much harder to protest.
A QC has just been talking about it in 5 live.
Harder to protest in general
Or during covid?
I think in general.
I hadn't heard about it before so dont know too much about it tbh"
But the right to protest peacefully is part of our democracy |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The Met Police could have played this so differently. Ok, the people who were there shouldn’t have been there but to go in so heavy handed is in my opinion so wrong. Especially as it’s because of one of their officers the people were there in the first place. They could have stepped back, there wasn’t going to be any violence - it was peaceful gathering
J x"
i think because it was peaceful is probably why they felt they could break it up, whereas a hyped up crowd would have resulted in a bigger problem if they didnt just quietly let them get on with it
its sad that our policing is so selective |
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By *ovebjsMan
over a year ago
Bristol |
"The Met have played an absolute shocker here. An absolute PR disaster. Kettling those at the vigil and the mm using force to remove people. An absolute shit show. They pick and choose which laws they wish to enforce. Cunts"
Dammed if they do and dammed if they don’t |
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"I suspect this will garner a few headlines
Despite it being banned ,100s turned up and there were several arrests,
The police are being heavily criticised for not engaging.
There is also a side issue I'd a law which is apparently going through,which is going to make it much harder to protest.
A QC has just been talking about it in 5 live.
Harder to protest in general
Or during covid?
I think in general.
I hadn't heard about it before so dont know too much about it tbh
But the right to protest peacefully is part of our democracy"
I've disagreed plenty of times with people who have argued that covid is being used to stifle peoples liberties, but the timing is a little suspect. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I suspect this will garner a few headlines
Despite it being banned ,100s turned up and there were several arrests,
The police are being heavily criticised for not engaging.
There is also a side issue I'd a law which is apparently going through,which is going to make it much harder to protest.
A QC has just been talking about it in 5 live.
Harder to protest in general
Or during covid?
I think in general.
I hadn't heard about it before so dont know too much about it tbh
But the right to protest peacefully is part of our democracy
I've disagreed plenty of times with people who have argued that covid is being used to stifle peoples liberties, but the timing is a little suspect."
Indeed |
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"The Met have played an absolute shocker here. An absolute PR disaster. Kettling those at the vigil and the mm using force to remove people. An absolute shit show. They pick and choose which laws they wish to enforce. Cunts
Dammed if they do and dammed if they don’t "
No, don’t let them get away with this. They were in talks with the organisers. This could have been done with staggered starts and socially distanced. The Met refused to cooperate and stated that anyone involved with the organisation would be fined. As such there was no organisation and people flooded to common anyway. Clapham Common is massive and the police wanted it to be like this so they could use force. Thugs and bullies with badges. An absolute shitshow |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"They should have called it a protest instead of a vigil. Police weren't grabbing up the protests last year tho.
What protest?"
You don't remember the masses of protests last year?? |
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In the middle of a pandemic it wasn’t a great idea at all. There was hardly any social distancing.
Then the Met getting heavy handed. Not like their name had been dragged through the gutter already because of that officers actions.
Bad day all round. |
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"I suspect this will garner a few headlines
Despite it being banned ,100s turned up and there were several arrests,
The police are being heavily criticised for not engaging.
There is also a side issue I'd a law which is apparently going through,which is going to make it much harder to protest.
A QC has just been talking about it in 5 live.
Harder to protest in general
Or during covid?
I think in general.
I hadn't heard about it before so dont know too much about it tbh
But the right to protest peacefully is part of our democracy
"
They are adding pieces to the act, to make it much more difficult for protests.
For example, if its deemed too noisy!
Or disrupts business... |
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"Yes. Did they prevent a gathering? No.
They were never going to able to, utter waste of resources and now they are just punchbags for all the angst."
So one rule for one group but not others.
It was called off individuals shouldn’t have attended in the first place.
The police no matter what they do will always attract angst |
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
Common sense policing seems not to happen these days....
You could have kept it low profile, you knew it wasn’t going to be violent... and yet they waded in..
Tone deaf and tone blind ... the optics are awful
Whoever sanctioned that should go and I don’t care how up it is... whether that be Cressida Dick or Pritti Patel |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Common sense policing seems not to happen these days....
You could have kept it low profile, you knew it wasn’t going to be violent... and yet they waded in..
Tone deaf and tone blind ... the optics are awful
Whoever sanctioned that should go and I don’t care how up it is... whether that be Cressida Dick or Pritti Patel"
The Home Secretary has no say in operational police matters, and the Met Commissioner reports directly to the Mayor of London, not the Home Office.
Otherwise I agree with your comments. Appalling decisions and Cressida Dick should go by the morning. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Yes. Did they prevent a gathering? No.
They were never going to able to, utter waste of resources and now they are just punchbags for all the angst.
So one rule for one group but not others.
It was called off individuals shouldn’t have attended in the first place.
The police no matter what they do will always attract angst "
No they shouldn't have attended, but they were always going to and the police would not be able to manage it.
Yes, there will always be angst. Better angst without accusations of heavy handed policing in such an emotionally charged event.
Pick your battles. If the police had not been there at all what do you think would have happened? |
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"Yes. Did they prevent a gathering? No.
They were never going to able to, utter waste of resources and now they are just punchbags for all the angst.
So one rule for one group but not others.
It was called off individuals shouldn’t have attended in the first place.
The police no matter what they do will always attract angst
No they shouldn't have attended, but they were always going to and the police would not be able to manage it.
Yes, there will always be angst. Better angst without accusations of heavy handed policing in such an emotionally charged event.
Pick your battles. If the police had not been there at all what do you think would have happened?"
The police are always at these things so that last paragraph is moot. This wasn’t the right time for that group to pick their battle.
At the end of the day neither of us were there, we don’t know what has been said by either side, but they were warned it was an illegal event so turn up and take the consequences |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
The official event was cancelled. This is an unofficial event so what was said between the organisers and police is irrelevant.
You're right, the police do attend many events, but the risk here was only about breach of covid regs. They could never, and haven't, prevented this, simply added more bodies to the equation. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
I live near a small park which on good days has been packed in breach of all Covid laws. The police do absolutely nothing and I imagine this is the same in many other places, including on Clapham Common where I understand plenty of people hang out in large groups when the sun shines.
In the case of this peaceful protest an operational decision was clearly made to show up in force and take a hard line. This is all politics, nothing to do with the law. |
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"The official event was cancelled. This is an unofficial event so what was said between the organisers and police is irrelevant.
You're right, the police do attend many events, but the risk here was only about breach of covid regs. They could never, and haven't, prevented this, simply added more bodies to the equation."
What was said was not in relation to the organisers but the conversation between the attendees and the police.
We’ll have to agree to disagree as it is something, in my opinion, that shouldn’t have gone ahead at this time due to the restrictions we are under. |
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"I suspect this will garner a few headlines
Despite it being banned ,100s turned up and there were several arrests,
The police are being heavily criticised for not engaging.
There is also a side issue I'd a law which is apparently going through,which is going to make it much harder to protest.
A QC has just been talking about it in 5 live."
I have been warning about liberties like these being taken especially under the guise of covid.
No matter what laws are wrote, the people have the power over all. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I live near a small park which on good days has been packed in breach of all Covid laws. The police do absolutely nothing and I imagine this is the same in many other places, including on Clapham Common where I understand plenty of people hang out in large groups when the sun shines.
In the case of this peaceful protest an operational decision was clearly made to show up in force and take a hard line. This is all politics, nothing to do with the law. "
this is how i see it - yes the rules are clear and yes people should not have gone , but we appear to be very selective about when these laws get enforced so the fact this was one of those occasion is in very poor taste |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Yes. Did they prevent a gathering? No.
They were never going to able to, utter waste of resources and now they are just punchbags for all the angst.
So one rule for one group but not others.
It was called off individuals shouldn’t have attended in the first place.
The police no matter what they do will always attract angst
No they shouldn't have attended, but they were always going to and the police would not be able to manage it.
Yes, there will always be angst. Better angst without accusations of heavy handed policing in such an emotionally charged event.
Pick your battles. If the police had not been there at all what do you think would have happened?
The police are always at these things so that last paragraph is moot. This wasn’t the right time for that group to pick their battle.
At the end of the day neither of us were there, we don’t know what has been said by either side, but they were warned it was an illegal event so turn up and take the consequences "
i know its a different police force but last weekend i watched 4 riot vans of police just stand and observe a street party, setting off fireworks from the middle of a crowd , drinking in the street which is illegal in my council district and later give them a police escort to join a larger street party where they left behind them vandalised property including memorial benches and spray painted graffiti on buildings
they broke the law by being out during covid snd then on top broke additional laws with police not only observing but also assisting them
my problem here is the total inconsistent application of these covid rules because this time it was either easier for them to break up as sober peaceful women were less of a threat or have others have said a more political motivation |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The official event was cancelled. This is an unofficial event so what was said between the organisers and police is irrelevant.
You're right, the police do attend many events, but the risk here was only about breach of covid regs. They could never, and haven't, prevented this, simply added more bodies to the equation.
What was said was not in relation to the organisers but the conversation between the attendees and the police.
We’ll have to agree to disagree as it is something, in my opinion, that shouldn’t have gone ahead at this time due to the restrictions we are under. "
You're right it shouldn't have gone ahead. The police were never going to be able to prevent and should have just said fuck it and walked away. All they have done is multiplied the covid risk they were trying to avoid, plus a whole load of additional crap. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
i know its a different police force but last weekend i watched 4 riot vans of police just stand and observe a street party, setting off fireworks from the middle of a crowd , drinking in the street which is illegal in my council district and later give them a police escort to join a larger street party where they left behind them vandalised property including memorial benches and spray painted graffiti on buildings
they broke the law by being out during covid snd then on top broke additional laws with police not only observing but also assisting them
my problem here is the total inconsistent application of these covid rules because this time it was either easier for them to break up as sober peaceful women were less of a threat or have others have said a more political motivation "
Police on the ground have a thankless job but no one seriously thinks they apply all laws all the time. Every day they make decisions about when to intervene and when to ignore laws being broken. In this case they got those decisions completely wrong, probably because as you say they saw the protesters as a soft target. |
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"The High Court ruled that there was scope for this vigil to go ahead legally. The Met just didn't want it to, and so didn't work with the organisers to make it happen.
"
So yet another case of police themselves not following laws...biggest gangsters out there with little consequences to what ever they do. |
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"The High Court ruled that there was scope for this vigil to go ahead legally. The Met just didn't want it to, and so didn't work with the organisers to make it happen.
So yet another case of police themselves not following laws...biggest gangsters out there with little consequences to what ever they do.
"
Yup, the right to protest is a basic human right, that the Covid regulations should not trump.
However, the Met have been applying a policy that all protests are, at present, illegal.
Basically if they'd let this go, people arrested and fined in other earlier protests would have had grounds to appeal.
A problem of their own making in short. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"You would have thought considering the nature of what had happened,a little compromise wouldnt have gone amiss."
Exactly. Preventing the covid risk was a non-starter, so forget that.
BLM protest with the potential for violence? ....we'll allow that, even bend a few knees.
Sporting event mass gathering to celebrate a victory, with the potential for violence?..we'll give them an escort.
Funeral with over 200 mourners?...Ah, go on then..
Mass gathering of grieving, concerned people who are probably going to cry, hug, sing a few kumbayas and fuck off home?....No way..let's go to war with Mumsnet...
|
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By *ugby 123Couple
over a year ago
Forum Mod O o O oo |
The rules have been changed a lot since the first protests to make sure people stick within Covid rules. The first protests will have had more lenient rules to work with so why they changed them |
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"The rules have been changed a lot since the first protests to make sure people stick within Covid rules. The first protests will have had more lenient rules to work with so why they changed them"
Have a look at that police act 2021 they are bringing in |
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By *ugby 123Couple
over a year ago
Forum Mod O o O oo |
"The rules have been changed a lot since the first protests to make sure people stick within Covid rules. The first protests will have had more lenient rules to work with so why they changed them
Have a look at that police act 2021 they are bringing in"
I saw that yesterday, that really should be voted down  |
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"The rules have been changed a lot since the first protests to make sure people stick within Covid rules. The first protests will have had more lenient rules to work with so why they changed them
Have a look at that police act 2021 they are bringing in
I saw that yesterday, that really should be voted down "
It seems to be very much being pushed through under the radar.
There isnt even much in the news about it. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The rules have been changed a lot since the first protests to make sure people stick within Covid rules. The first protests will have had more lenient rules to work with so why they changed them
Have a look at that police act 2021 they are bringing in
I saw that yesterday, that really should be voted down
It seems to be very much being pushed through under the radar.
There isnt even much in the news about it."
ive just read it all the language is telling people we are trying to curb the violent out of hand protests for the convenience of everyone just trying to go about their daily lives but all the changes in law appear to be controls over a perfectly acceptable level of protest
other than changing the bit about people can be prosecuted if they “ought to know” which restrictions they broke rather than it needing to be explicitly shown to them during the protest which lets law breakers cover their ears to avoid prosecution , it all feels incredibly out of line |
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"The rules have been changed a lot since the first protests to make sure people stick within Covid rules. The first protests will have had more lenient rules to work with so why they changed them
Have a look at that police act 2021 they are bringing in
I saw that yesterday, that really should be voted down "
It is a horrendous bill... it basically could deny any form of organise protests or gatherings...
The fact that it is being debated tomorrow and it would have gone thru without most people knowing would have been a travesty, this is going to shine a big light now on what labour decide to do (my guess is they would have abstained, but now vote against!) and how much Tory backbench support there will be...
The fact that statues basically get more protection than people says tons.... |
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"The rules have been changed a lot since the first protests to make sure people stick within Covid rules. The first protests will have had more lenient rules to work with so why they changed them
Have a look at that police act 2021 they are bringing in
I saw that yesterday, that really should be voted down
It is a horrendous bill... it basically could deny any form of organise protests or gatherings...
The fact that it is being debated tomorrow and it would have gone thru without most people knowing would have been a travesty, this is going to shine a big light now on what labour decide to do (my guess is they would have abstained, but now vote against!) and how much Tory backbench support there will be...
The fact that statues basically get more protection than people says tons....
"
But obviously with an 80 seat majority they can pretty much push through whatever they want. |
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By *ugby 123Couple
over a year ago
Forum Mod O o O oo |
"The rules have been changed a lot since the first protests to make sure people stick within Covid rules. The first protests will have had more lenient rules to work with so why they changed them
Have a look at that police act 2021 they are bringing in
I saw that yesterday, that really should be voted down
It is a horrendous bill... it basically could deny any form of organise protests or gatherings...
The fact that it is being debated tomorrow and it would have gone thru without most people knowing would have been a travesty, this is going to shine a big light now on what labour decide to do (my guess is they would have abstained, but now vote against!) and how much Tory backbench support there will be...
The fact that statues basically get more protection than people says tons...."
I think L they are voting against, however the Tories do have a big majority so it will probably go through.
I am not a protest march type of person ( although some things that have happened this year is making me want to ) but this bill is exactly as you say, to deny anyone the right to which is not right at all |
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the conservatives are well rehersed in labelling any kind of protest as radical left wing domstic terrorism and it appears that the votes that count in this country agree with them regardless of any fact. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The Met Police could have played this so differently. Ok, the people who were there shouldn’t have been there but to go in so heavy handed is in my opinion so wrong. Especially as it’s because of one of their officers the people were there in the first place. They could have stepped back, there wasn’t going to be any violence - it was peaceful gathering
J x"
but still an illegal one they got what they deserved and as for or why there not on FB or fab there paid to do a job. |
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"Common sense policing seems not to happen these days....
You could have kept it low profile, you knew it wasn’t going to be violent... and yet they waded in..
Tone deaf and tone blind ... the optics are awful
Whoever sanctioned that should go and I don’t care how up it is... whether that be Cressida Dick or Pritti Patel
The Home Secretary has no say in operational police matters, and the Met Commissioner reports directly to the Mayor of London, not the Home Office.
Otherwise I agree with your comments. Appalling decisions and Cressida Dick should go by the morning. "
Not quite accurate
The force is led by the Commissioner, whose formal title is the Commissioner of Police of the Metropolis. The Commissioner is answerable, responsible and accountable to The Queen, the Home Office and the Mayor of London, through the Mayor's Office for Policing and Crime.
Ms Patel is directly involved. |
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"The rules have been changed a lot since the first protests to make sure people stick within Covid rules. The first protests will have had more lenient rules to work with so why they changed them
Have a look at that police act 2021 they are bringing in
I saw that yesterday, that really should be voted down
It seems to be very much being pushed through under the radar.
There isnt even much in the news about it.
ive just read it all the language is telling people we are trying to curb the violent out of hand protests for the convenience of everyone just trying to go about their daily lives but all the changes in law appear to be controls over a perfectly acceptable level of protest
other than changing the bit about people can be prosecuted if they “ought to know” which restrictions they broke rather than it needing to be explicitly shown to them during the protest which lets law breakers cover their ears to avoid prosecution , it all feels incredibly out of line "
I only heard about it for the 1st time last night.
There was a QC on five live talking about it.
I've always argued against people who have said covid is being used as a cover to limit peoples rights,but this is a cause for concern. |
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"The rules have been changed a lot since the first protests to make sure people stick within Covid rules. The first protests will have had more lenient rules to work with so why they changed them
Have a look at that police act 2021 they are bringing in
I saw that yesterday, that really should be voted down
It is a horrendous bill... it basically could deny any form of organise protests or gatherings...
The fact that it is being debated tomorrow and it would have gone thru without most people knowing would have been a travesty, this is going to shine a big light now on what labour decide to do (my guess is they would have abstained, but now vote against!) and how much Tory backbench support there will be...
The fact that statues basically get more protection than people says tons...."
Someone put on Twitter, I'll get more protectin as a statue.
Labour should be hanging their heads in shame. |
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"The Met Police could have played this so differently. Ok, the people who were there shouldn’t have been there but to go in so heavy handed is in my opinion so wrong. Especially as it’s because of one of their officers the people were there in the first place. They could have stepped back, there wasn’t going to be any violence - it was peaceful gathering
J x but still an illegal one they got what they deserved and as for or why there not on FB or fab there paid to do a job."
Yep it's always nice to see a woman pinned down and carted away. |
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"The High Court ruled that there was scope for this vigil to go ahead legally. The Met just didn't want it to, and so didn't work with the organisers to make it happen.
So yet another case of police themselves not following laws...biggest gangsters out there with little consequences to what ever they do.
Yup, the right to protest is a basic human right, that the Covid regulations should not trump.
However, the Met have been applying a policy that all protests are, at present, illegal.
Basically if they'd let this go, people arrested and fined in other earlier protests would have had grounds to appeal.
A problem of their own making in short. "
well aware of that. however we didn't have vaccines last year either, this year we do with high uptake so far and masks were worn, which should reduce the covid risk, so little argument on that from from a covid prospective.
I have already warned many time both in the forums and in real life what the governments are doing under covid laws behind our backs and whilst keeping the premise of fear going.
what is happening now is how both China and Russia became how they are today, If we want to keep democracy we cannot let them make laws without discussion of the public.
we are suppose to live by the rule OF law not be rule BY law.
If you don't understand the difference please go read the justice factory 2nd edition, it explains a lot there and shows lots of similarities to above. |
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"Smaller vigil in Nottingham. A couple of hundred socially distanced, and observed by two police officers.
All moved off peacefully after a short time.
"
I suspect tensions were probally running a little higher in london
|
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The rules have been changed a lot since the first protests to make sure people stick within Covid rules. The first protests will have had more lenient rules to work with so why they changed them
Have a look at that police act 2021 they are bringing in
I saw that yesterday, that really should be voted down
It seems to be very much being pushed through under the radar.
There isnt even much in the news about it.
ive just read it all the language is telling people we are trying to curb the violent out of hand protests for the convenience of everyone just trying to go about their daily lives but all the changes in law appear to be controls over a perfectly acceptable level of protest
other than changing the bit about people can be prosecuted if they “ought to know” which restrictions they broke rather than it needing to be explicitly shown to them during the protest which lets law breakers cover their ears to avoid prosecution , it all feels incredibly out of line
I only heard about it for the 1st time last night.
There was a QC on five live talking about it.
I've always argued against people who have said covid is being used as a cover to limit peoples rights,but this is a cause for concern. "
what i read didn’t seem like they were using covid as a basis, it seems to be based on avoiding the disruption from when the climate change lot blocked the bridge - but either way unless they are gery very clear in defining the scope what it covers, wide open terms like public nuisance , too much noise , too much disruption gives them free reign to shut down even very tame protests |
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"The rules have been changed a lot since the first protests to make sure people stick within Covid rules. The first protests will have had more lenient rules to work with so why they changed them
Have a look at that police act 2021 they are bringing in
I saw that yesterday, that really should be voted down
It seems to be very much being pushed through under the radar.
There isnt even much in the news about it.
ive just read it all the language is telling people we are trying to curb the violent out of hand protests for the convenience of everyone just trying to go about their daily lives but all the changes in law appear to be controls over a perfectly acceptable level of protest
other than changing the bit about people can be prosecuted if they “ought to know” which restrictions they broke rather than it needing to be explicitly shown to them during the protest which lets law breakers cover their ears to avoid prosecution , it all feels incredibly out of line
I only heard about it for the 1st time last night.
There was a QC on five live talking about it.
I've always argued against people who have said covid is being used as a cover to limit peoples rights,but this is a cause for concern.
what i read didn’t seem like they were using covid as a basis, it seems to be based on avoiding the disruption from when the climate change lot blocked the bridge - but either way unless they are gery very clear in defining the scope what it covers, wide open terms like public nuisance , too much noise , too much disruption gives them free reign to shut down even very tame protests "
exactly its as bad as getting a breach of the peace for objecting them or resistant arrest because they see fit to do so, usually just to get you out the way.
like if I objected to getting out my car to speak to an officer on a busy highway for my safety despite doing nowt wrong, he could arrest me, if you oppose what they are trying to say you done etc, It's used a lot to force folk. Personally I have never had good experiences of cops on either side of the coin.
personally I was at the George square one last night, only 2 officers there though both male, there were a few folk standing about talking some I think were from orgs overlooking the vigil and others those who had came, folk were arriving in small groups (we now have 4 from 2 houses) which was staggered without need to police, there was also 4 separate locations around the city where folk could go and leave ribbons, flowers, candles, notes etc.
Lots of people took reclaim the streets literally and all walked to the locations, which actually meant there was lots of small groups of people everywhere (all spaced out) making the previously unsafe and dark areas feel safe.
I'm saying people because obvious some had supporting males with them too. I even noticed more men in general being aware of how their presence could make us feel, noticing some waiting to let us past instead of cutting across our path ad others cross the road or give us a wide berth. Maybe i just noticed it more.
I was out with my daughter.
They could have put females on or a mix given the reason behind it tbh but that's just lack of thought.
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"The rules have been changed a lot since the first protests to make sure people stick within Covid rules. The first protests will have had more lenient rules to work with so why they changed them
Have a look at that police act 2021 they are bringing in
I saw that yesterday, that really should be voted down
It seems to be very much being pushed through under the radar.
There isnt even much in the news about it.
ive just read it all the language is telling people we are trying to curb the violent out of hand protests for the convenience of everyone just trying to go about their daily lives but all the changes in law appear to be controls over a perfectly acceptable level of protest
other than changing the bit about people can be prosecuted if they “ought to know” which restrictions they broke rather than it needing to be explicitly shown to them during the protest which lets law breakers cover their ears to avoid prosecution , it all feels incredibly out of line
I only heard about it for the 1st time last night.
There was a QC on five live talking about it.
I've always argued against people who have said covid is being used as a cover to limit peoples rights,but this is a cause for concern.
what i read didn’t seem like they were using covid as a basis, it seems to be based on avoiding the disruption from when the climate change lot blocked the bridge - but either way unless they are gery very clear in defining the scope what it covers, wide open terms like public nuisance , too much noise , too much disruption gives them free reign to shut down even very tame protests
exactly its as bad as getting a breach of the peace for objecting them or resistant arrest because they see fit to do so, usually just to get you out the way.
like if I objected to getting out my car to speak to an officer on a busy highway for my safety despite doing nowt wrong, he could arrest me, if you oppose what they are trying to say you done etc, It's used a lot to force folk. Personally I have never had good experiences of cops on either side of the coin.
personally I was at the George square one last night, only 2 officers there though both male, there were a few folk standing about talking some I think were from orgs overlooking the vigil and others those who had came, folk were arriving in small groups (we now have 4 from 2 houses) which was staggered without need to police, there was also 4 separate locations around the city where folk could go and leave ribbons, flowers, candles, notes etc.
Lots of people took reclaim the streets literally and all walked to the locations, which actually meant there was lots of small groups of people everywhere (all spaced out) making the previously unsafe and dark areas feel safe.
I'm saying people because obvious some had supporting males with them too. I even noticed more men in general being aware of how their presence could make us feel, noticing some waiting to let us past instead of cutting across our path ad others cross the road or give us a wide berth. Maybe i just noticed it more.
I was out with my daughter.
They could have put females on or a mix given the reason behind it tbh but that's just lack of thought.
"
It's quite astonishing this isnt getting more airtime. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It's quite astonishing this isnt getting more airtime.
unsurprising as it doesn't fit this government and their supporters belief that all protest is left wing domestic terrorism"
mmmm i mean im not on the bash the government train but i would never describe protest as any wing domestic terrorism - i feel like you might be being a touch extreme |
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"It's quite astonishing this isnt getting more airtime.
unsurprising as it doesn't fit this government and their supporters belief that all protest is left wing domestic terrorism
mmmm i mean im not on the bash the government train but i would never describe protest as any wing domestic terrorism - i feel like you might be being a touch extreme "
i recommend you familiarise yourself with the extensive alterations theresa may made to the terrorism act in that case. pay particular attention to the deliberately ambiguous definitions that give the police powers to use the act to disperse protests that they have declared unlawful. they are the same powers being used in the extinction rebellion protests, fracking, tree felling in sheffield etc. etc. etc. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It's quite astonishing this isnt getting more airtime.
unsurprising as it doesn't fit this government and their supporters belief that all protest is left wing domestic terrorism
mmmm i mean im not on the bash the government train but i would never describe protest as any wing domestic terrorism - i feel like you might be being a touch extreme
i recommend you familiarise yourself with the extensive alterations theresa may made to the terrorism act in that case. pay particular attention to the deliberately ambiguous definitions that give the police powers to use the act to disperse protests that they have declared unlawful. they are the same powers being used in the extinction rebellion protests, fracking, tree felling in sheffield etc. etc. etc."
The Extinction Rebellion protests were seriously damaging to the London Transport Network. They had a condition placed on them to move to a specific area. Those who did not follow the condition were subject to sanctions including arrest.
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" Those who did not follow the condition were subject to sanctions including arrest."
so the reality is it was the same powers used as yesterday then ... and in other protests for that matter. the terror act is a convenient tool used to clear an area if the authorities choose. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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" Those who did not follow the condition were subject to sanctions including arrest.
so the reality is it was the same powers used as yesterday then ... and in other protests for that matter. the terror act is a convenient tool used to clear an area if the authorities choose."
I don't think so. As far as I'm aware the protestors yesterday weren't causing any disruption to business or transport.
I guess the powers used yesterday were covid powers. |
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And here was me thinking the right to protest was a sign of a healthy democracy when in fact you are only allowed to protest in accordance with what the gmnt and police allow.
What great freedoms we enjoy. |
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from the governments glossary of the act ....
"The term ‘terrorism' refers to a threat of action, in any place - not just the UK, which is intended to influence the decisions and actions of a government..." |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"And here was me thinking the right to protest was a sign of a healthy democracy when in fact you are only allowed to protest in accordance with what the gmnt and police allow.
What great freedoms we enjoy."
The right to protest is different to the right to peacefully protest |
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"And here was me thinking the right to protest was a sign of a healthy democracy when in fact you are only allowed to protest in accordance with what the gmnt and police allow.
What great freedoms we enjoy.
The right to protest is different to the right to peacefully protest "
the fact is that there is currently no right to protest in the uk and it remains to be seen wether or not that right is to be returned in the future. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Other people have said vigils around the country went off without bother.silly question..but why where they allowed to go ahead and the london one was bammed?"
Crowd size maybe they received intel of a potential threat. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"And here was me thinking the right to protest was a sign of a healthy democracy when in fact you are only allowed to protest in accordance with what the gmnt and police allow.
What great freedoms we enjoy.
The right to protest is different to the right to peacefully protest
the fact is that there is currently no right to protest in the uk and it remains to be seen wether or not that right is to be returned in the future."
That's correct but why do you believe that these temporary measures will remain once all other are dropped?
My missus can't open her business because of covid restrictions. Do I expect that'll stay the same forever? |
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"Other people have said vigils around the country went off without bother.silly question..but why where they allowed to go ahead and the london one was bammed?
Crowd size maybe they received intel of a potential threat."
What threat? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/staggers/2021/03/it-was-terrible-mistake-not-safeguard-right-protest-during-lockdown
Saying here the protest didnt break lockdow rules?"
You're telling me why the campaign received legal advice in their favour but decided against it anyway? |
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"https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/staggers/2021/03/it-was-terrible-mistake-not-safeguard-right-protest-during-lockdown
Saying here the protest didnt break lockdow rules?
You're telling me why the campaign received legal advice in their favour but decided against it anyway?"
I'm asking was the protest legal or not..its says there it was legal? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/staggers/2021/03/it-was-terrible-mistake-not-safeguard-right-protest-during-lockdown
Saying here the protest didnt break lockdow rules?
You're telling me why the campaign received legal advice in their favour but decided against it anyway?
I'm asking was the protest legal or not..its says there it was legal?"
Legislation has been passed restricting the assembly of groups. So yes, in effect, protests are illegal.
However, as always, some police will be cool and ask you to stop doing whatever it is that's illegal, in this case go home.
Issues can then arise if you don't cooperate |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Other people have said vigils around the country went off without bother.silly question..but why where they allowed to go ahead and the london one was bammed?
Crowd size maybe they received intel of a potential threat.
What threat?"
Your covid lockdown laws. Everyone was screaming about parties and large gathering and screaming why isn't the government doing more. UK passed those laws police enforced them. Now the police are the "Bad ones ". If it was a rave party with same amount of people people would be cheering the police and thanking them for enforcing the same laws. |
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"Other people have said vigils around the country went off without bother.silly question..but why where they allowed to go ahead and the london one was bammed?
Crowd size maybe they received intel of a potential threat.
What threat?
Your covid lockdown laws. Everyone was screaming about parties and large gathering and screaming why isn't the government doing more. UK passed those laws police enforced them. Now the police are the "Bad ones ". If it was a rave party with same amount of people people would be cheering the police and thanking them for enforcing the same laws."
whilst there is human rights to enjoy and participate in the arts, a rave is not art really it's just a party.
the vigil was a remembrance and solidarity, it wasn't even to be a protest. it became one when the police decided that they were fully intending to place massive fines and arrests upon organizers despite being through the HIGH COURT as being legally allowed to happen. therefor police abused their powers and ignored the rule OF law.
Human rights are placed by the international courts so are above any single countries laws...the right to protest is firmly in there.
Governments can only get away with what we allow them to get away with, The people hold the power.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Other people have said vigils around the country went off without bother.silly question..but why where they allowed to go ahead and the london one was bammed?
Crowd size maybe they received intel of a potential threat.
What threat?
Your covid lockdown laws. Everyone was screaming about parties and large gathering and screaming why isn't the government doing more. UK passed those laws police enforced them. Now the police are the "Bad ones ". If it was a rave party with same amount of people people would be cheering the police and thanking them for enforcing the same laws.
whilst there is human rights to enjoy and participate in the arts, a rave is not art really it's just a party.
the vigil was a remembrance and solidarity, it wasn't even to be a protest. it became one when the police decided that they were fully intending to place massive fines and arrests upon organizers despite being through the HIGH COURT as being legally allowed to happen. therefor police abused their powers and ignored the rule OF law.
Human rights are placed by the international courts so are above any single countries laws...the right to protest is firmly in there.
Governments can only get away with what we allow them to get away with, The people hold the power.
"
When did this go through the high court?
I'm aware of Article 11 but then there was legislation passed that I said above.
Which one supersedes? |
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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago
upton wirral |
"The Met have played an absolute shocker here. An absolute PR disaster. Kettling those at the vigil and the mm using force to remove people. An absolute shit show. They pick and choose which laws they wish to enforce. Cunts"
disagree 100%
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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago
upton wirral |
"And here was me thinking the right to protest was a sign of a healthy democracy when in fact you are only allowed to protest in accordance with what the gmnt and police allow.
What great freedoms we enjoy."
Yes we do so believe what you say,to much freedom during covid.The protestors in Mayanar are more peacefull and wear more masks than that rabble on Clapham Common and they have real reasons to protest.
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"Other people have said vigils around the country went off without bother.silly question..but why where they allowed to go ahead and the london one was bammed?
Crowd size maybe they received intel of a potential threat.
What threat?
Your covid lockdown laws. Everyone was screaming about parties and large gathering and screaming why isn't the government doing more. UK passed those laws police enforced them. Now the police are the "Bad ones ". If it was a rave party with same amount of people people would be cheering the police and thanking them for enforcing the same laws.
whilst there is human rights to enjoy and participate in the arts, a rave is not art really it's just a party.
the vigil was a remembrance and solidarity, it wasn't even to be a protest. it became one when the police decided that they were fully intending to place massive fines and arrests upon organizers despite being through the HIGH COURT as being legally allowed to happen. therefor police abused their powers and ignored the rule OF law.
Human rights are placed by the international courts so are above any single countries laws...the right to protest is firmly in there.
Governments can only get away with what we allow them to get away with, The people hold the power.
When did this go through the high court?
I'm aware of Article 11 but then there was legislation passed that I said above.
Which one supersedes?"
it's posted above and in all honesty international law supersede the rest so human rights, the right to protest, which was originally organized within covid guidelines/laws and therefore reduces the risk to life that covid could possibly cause, bear in mind the covid risk should be way lower now due to the vaccine program and mass uptake of it and masks were used too.
as for social distancing well the police are very good at herding if no one has noticed, it's not a dissimilar methods, tactics to a Shepard and his dog herding sheep or any prey animal.
The sheep/prey huddle together for safety. that is just natural behavior in the face of a threat.
largely male police force vs women when a local woman is presumed murdered by one....never a good outcome to that.
you see the exact same with a largely white force faces of against a largely black protest in the face of one of their killing one of theirs.
in one sense it's modern day tribal warfare
them vs us, in what ever factions the them and us are replaced with. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Other people have said vigils around the country went off without bother.silly question..but why where they allowed to go ahead and the london one was bammed?
Crowd size maybe they received intel of a potential threat.
What threat?
Your covid lockdown laws. Everyone was screaming about parties and large gathering and screaming why isn't the government doing more. UK passed those laws police enforced them. Now the police are the "Bad ones ". If it was a rave party with same amount of people people would be cheering the police and thanking them for enforcing the same laws.
whilst there is human rights to enjoy and participate in the arts, a rave is not art really it's just a party.
the vigil was a remembrance and solidarity, it wasn't even to be a protest. it became one when the police decided that they were fully intending to place massive fines and arrests upon organizers despite being through the HIGH COURT as being legally allowed to happen. therefor police abused their powers and ignored the rule OF law.
Human rights are placed by the international courts so are above any single countries laws...the right to protest is firmly in there.
Governments can only get away with what we allow them to get away with, The people hold the power.
When did this go through the high court?
I'm aware of Article 11 but then there was legislation passed that I said above.
Which one supersedes?
it's posted above and in all honesty international law supersede the rest so human rights, the right to protest, which was originally organized within covid guidelines/laws and therefore reduces the risk to life that covid could possibly cause, bear in mind the covid risk should be way lower now due to the vaccine program and mass uptake of it and masks were used too.
as for social distancing well the police are very good at herding if no one has noticed, it's not a dissimilar methods, tactics to a Shepard and his dog herding sheep or any prey animal.
The sheep/prey huddle together for safety. that is just natural behavior in the face of a threat.
largely male police force vs women when a local woman is presumed murdered by one....never a good outcome to that.
you see the exact same with a largely white force faces of against a largely black protest in the face of one of their killing one of theirs.
in one sense it's modern day tribal warfare
them vs us, in what ever factions the them and us are replaced with. "
I can't see a high court ruling above, just someone saying so.
If you look at this link you will see there is no heading going on but also no social distancing.
https://www.itv.com/news/2021-03-13/sarah-everard-clapham-common-vigil-cancelled-amid-covid-19-safety-concerns
This was allowed for over 6 hours before things got heated. |
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"Other people have said vigils around the country went off without bother.silly question..but why where they allowed to go ahead and the london one was bammed?
Crowd size maybe they received intel of a potential threat.
What threat?
Your covid lockdown laws. Everyone was screaming about parties and large gathering and screaming why isn't the government doing more. UK passed those laws police enforced them. Now the police are the "Bad ones ". If it was a rave party with same amount of people people would be cheering the police and thanking them for enforcing the same laws."
Yet they allowed other gatherings to go ahead?
They also refused to sit down and negotiate with the organisers |
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"https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/staggers/2021/03/it-was-terrible-mistake-not-safeguard-right-protest-during-lockdown
Saying here the protest didnt break lockdow rules?
You're telling me why the campaign received legal advice in their favour but decided against it anyway?
I'm asking was the protest legal or not..its says there it was legal?
Legislation has been passed restricting the assembly of groups. So yes, in effect, protests are illegal.
However, as always, some police will be cool and ask you to stop doing whatever it is that's illegal, in this case go home.
Issues can then arise if you don't cooperate"
Which ever way you look at it ,its been handled badly and they have contributed to making a sensitive situation, 10 times worse,on top of being a pr disaster.
So job done. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Other people have said vigils around the country went off without bother.silly question..but why where they allowed to go ahead and the london one was bammed?
Crowd size maybe they received intel of a potential threat.
What threat?
Your covid lockdown laws. Everyone was screaming about parties and large gathering and screaming why isn't the government doing more. UK passed those laws police enforced them. Now the police are the "Bad ones ". If it was a rave party with same amount of people people would be cheering the police and thanking them for enforcing the same laws.
Yet they allowed other gatherings to go ahead?
They also refused to sit down and negotiate with the organisers "
why should they negotiate they broke the law no matter how silly it is they were told not to turn up. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/staggers/2021/03/it-was-terrible-mistake-not-safeguard-right-protest-during-lockdown
Saying here the protest didnt break lockdow rules?
You're telling me why the campaign received legal advice in their favour but decided against it anyway?
I'm asking was the protest legal or not..its says there it was legal?
Legislation has been passed restricting the assembly of groups. So yes, in effect, protests are illegal.
However, as always, some police will be cool and ask you to stop doing whatever it is that's illegal, in this case go home.
Issues can then arise if you don't cooperate
Which ever way you look at it ,its been handled badly and they have contributed to making a sensitive situation, 10 times worse,on top of being a pr disaster.
So job done."
What does job done mean? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Other people have said vigils around the country went off without bother.silly question..but why where they allowed to go ahead and the london one was bammed?
Crowd size maybe they received intel of a potential threat.
What threat?
Your covid lockdown laws. Everyone was screaming about parties and large gathering and screaming why isn't the government doing more. UK passed those laws police enforced them. Now the police are the "Bad ones ". If it was a rave party with same amount of people people would be cheering the police and thanking them for enforcing the same laws.
Yet they allowed other gatherings to go ahead?
They also refused to sit down and negotiate with the organisers why should they negotiate they broke the law no matter how silly it is they were told not to turn up."
i think he meant negotiate in advance so that people had what they felt was an appropriate outlet for their frustrations or grief without breaking the law
many other cities appear to have allowed something on a more social distanced basis |
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"Other people have said vigils around the country went off without bother.silly question..but why where they allowed to go ahead and the london one was bammed?
Crowd size maybe they received intel of a potential threat.
What threat?
Your covid lockdown laws. Everyone was screaming about parties and large gathering and screaming why isn't the government doing more. UK passed those laws police enforced them. Now the police are the "Bad ones ". If it was a rave party with same amount of people people would be cheering the police and thanking them for enforcing the same laws.
Yet they allowed other gatherings to go ahead?
They also refused to sit down and negotiate with the organisers why should they negotiate they broke the law no matter how silly it is they were told not to turn up."
A sensible approach |
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"https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/staggers/2021/03/it-was-terrible-mistake-not-safeguard-right-protest-during-lockdown
Saying here the protest didnt break lockdow rules?
You're telling me why the campaign received legal advice in their favour but decided against it anyway?
I'm asking was the protest legal or not..its says there it was legal?
Legislation has been passed restricting the assembly of groups. So yes, in effect, protests are illegal.
However, as always, some police will be cool and ask you to stop doing whatever it is that's illegal, in this case go home.
Issues can then arise if you don't cooperate
Which ever way you look at it ,its been handled badly and they have contributed to making a sensitive situation, 10 times worse,on top of being a pr disaster.
So job done.
What does job done mean?"
It means it's been a bit of a fuck up. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/staggers/2021/03/it-was-terrible-mistake-not-safeguard-right-protest-during-lockdown
Saying here the protest didnt break lockdow rules?
You're telling me why the campaign received legal advice in their favour but decided against it anyway?
I'm asking was the protest legal or not..its says there it was legal?
Legislation has been passed restricting the assembly of groups. So yes, in effect, protests are illegal.
However, as always, some police will be cool and ask you to stop doing whatever it is that's illegal, in this case go home.
Issues can then arise if you don't cooperate
Which ever way you look at it ,its been handled badly and they have contributed to making a sensitive situation, 10 times worse,on top of being a pr disaster.
So job done.
What does job done mean?
It means it's been a bit of a fuck up."
Oh it's a mess alright. Fuck up? Who knows. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Other people have said vigils around the country went off without bother.silly question..but why where they allowed to go ahead and the london one was bammed?
Crowd size maybe they received intel of a potential threat.
What threat?
Your covid lockdown laws. Everyone was screaming about parties and large gathering and screaming why isn't the government doing more. UK passed those laws police enforced them. Now the police are the "Bad ones ". If it was a rave party with same amount of people people would be cheering the police and thanking them for enforcing the same laws.
whilst there is human rights to enjoy and participate in the arts, a rave is not art really it's just a party.
the vigil was a remembrance and solidarity, it wasn't even to be a protest. it became one when the police decided that they were fully intending to place massive fines and arrests upon organizers despite being through the HIGH COURT as being legally allowed to happen. therefor police abused their powers and ignored the rule OF law.
Human rights are placed by the international courts so are above any single countries laws...the right to protest is firmly in there.
Governments can only get away with what we allow them to get away with, The people hold the power.
When did this go through the high court?
I'm aware of Article 11 but then there was legislation passed that I said above.
Which one supersedes?
it's posted above and in all honesty international law supersede the rest so human rights, the right to protest, which was originally organized within covid guidelines/laws and therefore reduces the risk to life that covid could possibly cause, bear in mind the covid risk should be way lower now due to the vaccine program and mass uptake of it and masks were used too.
as for social distancing well the police are very good at herding if no one has noticed, it's not a dissimilar methods, tactics to a Shepard and his dog herding sheep or any prey animal.
The sheep/prey huddle together for safety. that is just natural behavior in the face of a threat.
largely male police force vs women when a local woman is presumed murdered by one....never a good outcome to that.
you see the exact same with a largely white force faces of against a largely black protest in the face of one of their killing one of theirs.
in one sense it's modern day tribal warfare
them vs us, in what ever factions the them and us are replaced with. "
So if people feel it is ok that their rights are trampled on it is ok to circumvent laws put into place. |
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