FabSwingers.com > Forums > Politics > Legality of refusing a Scottish referendum.
Legality of refusing a Scottish referendum.
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Scotland, as a sovereign nation, what legality does the UK parliament have in refusing to either grant permission for, or refuse to accept the result of a referendum unsanctioned by themselves?
I don't remember the UK having to ask the EU for permission to have a referendum. Why should Scotland require permission to exit what has supposedly been a voluntary union?
How can we call ourselves democratic when we refuse our nearest neighbours the right to decide self determination?
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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago
Grantham |
"Scotland, as a sovereign nation, what legality does the UK parliament have in refusing to either grant permission for, or refuse to accept the result of a referendum unsanctioned by themselves?
I don't remember the UK having to ask the EU for permission to have a referendum. Why should Scotland require permission to exit what has supposedly been a voluntary union?
How can we call ourselves democratic when we refuse our nearest neighbours the right to decide self determination?
"
Scotland isnt a sovereign nation. |
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By *atEvolutionCouple
over a year ago
atlantisEVOLUTION. Stoke. HOT WIVES Sat 01 |
"Scotland, as a sovereign nation, what legality does the UK parliament have in refusing to either grant permission for, or refuse to accept the result of a referendum unsanctioned by themselves?
I don't remember the UK having to ask the EU for permission to have a referendum. Why should Scotland require permission to exit what has supposedly been a voluntary union?
How can we call ourselves democratic when we refuse our nearest neighbours the right to decide self determination?
"
"
er as far as I can see . . . While the Scottish Parliament could hold an advisory referendum on the question of independence without the approval of the UK government, a binding referendum would likely require a section 30 order from the UK government, or an amendment to the Scotland Act 1998 by the UK Parliament."
That formed part of the argument last time. It still seems to apply. It also could be argued that that set the precedent for future referenda .
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By *atEvolutionCouple
over a year ago
atlantisEVOLUTION. Stoke. HOT WIVES Sat 01 |
Just remembered too that . . .
"The Act specifically declares the continued power of the UK Parliament to legislate in respect of Scotland; thereby upholding the concept of Westminster's absolute Parliamentary sovereignty. "
Wiki
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By *eroy1000Man
over a year ago
milton keynes |
"Scotland, as a sovereign nation, what legality does the UK parliament have in refusing to either grant permission for, or refuse to accept the result of a referendum unsanctioned by themselves?
I don't remember the UK having to ask the EU for permission to have a referendum. Why should Scotland require permission to exit what has supposedly been a voluntary union?
How can we call ourselves democratic when we refuse our nearest neighbours the right to decide self determination?
"
It looks like it will be tested in the near future. Everything I have read on the subject says for it to be legal it needs the section 30. It seems there are options but for it to be legal it needs to respect the law hence why the SNP want section 30. If not legal other countries may not recognise them. Catalonia tried another route and did not end well. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Also I seem to remember Salmond (the then leader of SNP) and Sturgeon (his lapdog at the time) BOTH saying the previous referendum was a "ONCE IN A GENERATION" decision. When was 5 years a "generation"?
As and when there IS a referendum IF it goes the way of independence. ...will wee Nicola be screaming for another one 5 years later as the Scottish economy collapses...? |
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"Also I seem to remember Salmond (the then leader of SNP) and Sturgeon (his lapdog at the time) BOTH saying the previous referendum was a "ONCE IN A GENERATION" decision. When was 5 years a "generation"?
As and when there IS a referendum IF it goes the way of independence. ...will wee Nicola be screaming for another one 5 years later as the Scottish economy collapses...? "
That was before brexit |
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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago
upton wirral |
"Scotland, as a sovereign nation, what legality does the UK parliament have in refusing to either grant permission for, or refuse to accept the result of a referendum unsanctioned by themselves?
I don't remember the UK having to ask the EU for permission to have a referendum. Why should Scotland require permission to exit what has supposedly been a voluntary union?
How can we call ourselves democratic when we refuse our nearest neighbours the right to decide self determination?
Scotland isnt a sovereign nation. "
 Like the Basques in Spain it is an area within the UK mainland |
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"If the SNP get a big majority in their elections and Johnson refuses a referendum for them, then it rather plays into their hands."
The next 4 weeks of inquiry testimony could make quite a difference to the political landscape in Scotland |
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The SNP can hold an unofficial referendum, I'm holding one to lol but the deal done in 1707 stands, sorry, its another court case, I don't make the rules!
I did wonder how one side of a union can demand its end, surely Scotland would have to compensate us? But apparently England is suppose to vote as well.  |
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"The SNP can hold an unofficial referendum, I'm holding one to lol but the deal done in 1707 stands, sorry, its another court case, I don't make the rules!
I did wonder how one side of a union can demand its end, surely Scotland would have to compensate us? But apparently England is suppose to vote as well. "
I'm sure it would be just as acrimonious as brexit if it ever comes down to the details. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I don’t know what the fuss is all about. If the tories are so sure that they’re doing a good job for Scotland and that the U.K. is working well for the Scots, why don’t they let them have a referendum?
Or is it that they’re worried that they have alienated the Scots so much that they’re crapping themselves? Let the Scots decide if their future. That’s what the tories wanted before Brexit. Why shouldn’t it apply to the Scots?
So much hypocrisy in politics... And reading here the posts of Bojo’s children is laughable.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I don’t know what the fuss is all about. If the tories are so sure that they’re doing a good job for Scotland and that the U.K. is working well for the Scots, why don’t they let them have a referendum?
Or is it that they’re worried that they have alienated the Scots so much that they’re crapping themselves? Let the Scots decide if their future. That’s what the tories wanted before Brexit. Why shouldn’t it apply to the Scots?
So much hypocrisy in politics... And reading here the posts of Bojo’s children is laughable.
"
i think in the middle of a pandemic the government have alienated most people no matter what their politics |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I don’t know what the fuss is all about. If the tories are so sure that they’re doing a good job for Scotland and that the U.K. is working well for the Scots, why don’t they let them have a referendum?
Or is it that they’re worried that they have alienated the Scots so much that they’re crapping themselves? Let the Scots decide if their future. That’s what the tories wanted before Brexit. Why shouldn’t it apply to the Scots?
So much hypocrisy in politics... And reading here the posts of Bojo’s children is laughable.
i think in the middle of a pandemic the government have alienated most people no matter what their politics "
They surely have and it’s no surprise because these people in the gvt were not chosen for their competence for being Brexit puppets and nodding to Boris on everything. The argument from the tories that we shouldn’t have a referendum in the middle of a pandemic is interesting. I’m sure the SNP would be happy to have one as soon as the pandemic is over.  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I don’t know what the fuss is all about. If the tories are so sure that they’re doing a good job for Scotland and that the U.K. is working well for the Scots, why don’t they let them have a referendum?
Or is it that they’re worried that they have alienated the Scots so much that they’re crapping themselves? Let the Scots decide if their future. That’s what the tories wanted before Brexit. Why shouldn’t it apply to the Scots?
So much hypocrisy in politics... And reading here the posts of Bojo’s children is laughable.
i think in the middle of a pandemic the government have alienated most people no matter what their politics
They surely have and it’s no surprise because these people in the gvt were not chosen for their competence for being Brexit puppets and nodding to Boris on everything. The argument from the tories that we shouldn’t have a referendum in the middle of a pandemic is interesting. I’m sure the SNP would be happy to have one as soon as the pandemic is over. "
you shouldn’t have a referendum in the middle of a pandemic for lots of reasons , at the very least we have more important things for our leaders to be focussing on
but now its a pandemic, before that it was brexit, next it will be something else so when is a good time i guess |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I don’t know what the fuss is all about. If the tories are so sure that they’re doing a good job for Scotland and that the U.K. is working well for the Scots, why don’t they let them have a referendum?
Or is it that they’re worried that they have alienated the Scots so much that they’re crapping themselves? Let the Scots decide if their future. That’s what the tories wanted before Brexit. Why shouldn’t it apply to the Scots?
So much hypocrisy in politics... And reading here the posts of Bojo’s children is laughable.
i think in the middle of a pandemic the government have alienated most people no matter what their politics
They surely have and it’s no surprise because these people in the gvt were not chosen for their competence for being Brexit puppets and nodding to Boris on everything. The argument from the tories that we shouldn’t have a referendum in the middle of a pandemic is interesting. I’m sure the SNP would be happy to have one as soon as the pandemic is over. "
Rest of the UK could perhaps use the money we subsidise Scotland with to help pay the cost of the pandemic? Would Scotland then pay their share of that cost...so far covered by Westminister? What currency would an independent Scotland use? That's an argument from last time that was never answered.... |
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"I don’t know what the fuss is all about. If the tories are so sure that they’re doing a good job for Scotland and that the U.K. is working well for the Scots, why don’t they let them have a referendum?
Or is it that they’re worried that they have alienated the Scots so much that they’re crapping themselves? Let the Scots decide if their future. That’s what the tories wanted before Brexit. Why shouldn’t it apply to the Scots?
So much hypocrisy in politics... And reading here the posts of Bojo’s children is laughable.
i think in the middle of a pandemic the government have alienated most people no matter what their politics
They surely have and it’s no surprise because these people in the gvt were not chosen for their competence for being Brexit puppets and nodding to Boris on everything. The argument from the tories that we shouldn’t have a referendum in the middle of a pandemic is interesting. I’m sure the SNP would be happy to have one as soon as the pandemic is over.
Rest of the UK could perhaps use the money we subsidise Scotland with to help pay the cost of the pandemic? Would Scotland then pay their share of that cost...so far covered by Westminister? What currency would an independent Scotland use? That's an argument from last time that was never answered...."
Scotland already has it's own notes. That English from south of the mersey/humber line look at and go "nah, that's foreign, I'm not accepting that". So currency already sorted out... |
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Surely this is a time for some unity . All we get are the self interested groups sowing there seeds of discontent.
So let us ride out the pandemic and in the era of Trump and Brexit give us less obsessed folks a break from all the bleating. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I don’t know what the fuss is all about. If the tories are so sure that they’re doing a good job for Scotland and that the U.K. is working well for the Scots, why don’t they let them have a referendum?
Or is it that they’re worried that they have alienated the Scots so much that they’re crapping themselves? Let the Scots decide if their future. That’s what the tories wanted before Brexit. Why shouldn’t it apply to the Scots?
So much hypocrisy in politics... And reading here the posts of Bojo’s children is laughable.
i think in the middle of a pandemic the government have alienated most people no matter what their politics
They surely have and it’s no surprise because these people in the gvt were not chosen for their competence for being Brexit puppets and nodding to Boris on everything. The argument from the tories that we shouldn’t have a referendum in the middle of a pandemic is interesting. I’m sure the SNP would be happy to have one as soon as the pandemic is over.
Rest of the UK could perhaps use the money we subsidise Scotland with to help pay the cost of the pandemic? Would Scotland then pay their share of that cost...so far covered by Westminister? What currency would an independent Scotland use? That's an argument from last time that was never answered....
Scotland already has it's own notes. That English from south of the mersey/humber line look at and go "nah, that's foreign, I'm not accepting that". So currency already sorted out..."
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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago
Grantham |
"I don’t know what the fuss is all about. If the tories are so sure that they’re doing a good job for Scotland and that the U.K. is working well for the Scots, why don’t they let them have a referendum?
Or is it that they’re worried that they have alienated the Scots so much that they’re crapping themselves? Let the Scots decide if their future. That’s what the tories wanted before Brexit. Why shouldn’t it apply to the Scots?
So much hypocrisy in politics... And reading here the posts of Bojo’s children is laughable.
i think in the middle of a pandemic the government have alienated most people no matter what their politics
They surely have and it’s no surprise because these people in the gvt were not chosen for their competence for being Brexit puppets and nodding to Boris on everything. The argument from the tories that we shouldn’t have a referendum in the middle of a pandemic is interesting. I’m sure the SNP would be happy to have one as soon as the pandemic is over.
Rest of the UK could perhaps use the money we subsidise Scotland with to help pay the cost of the pandemic? Would Scotland then pay their share of that cost...so far covered by Westminister? What currency would an independent Scotland use? That's an argument from last time that was never answered....
Scotland already has it's own notes. That English from south of the mersey/humber line look at and go "nah, that's foreign, I'm not accepting that". So currency already sorted out..."
The problem is that Scottish banknotes are not legal tender, nor are they under-pinned by the fiscal regulations that are needed. |
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By *innMan
over a year ago
edinburgh |
"Also I seem to remember Salmond (the then leader of SNP) and Sturgeon (his lapdog at the time) BOTH saying the previous referendum was a "ONCE IN A GENERATION" decision. When was 5 years a "generation"?
As and when there IS a referendum IF it goes the way of independence. ...will wee Nicola be screaming for another one 5 years later as the Scottish economy collapses...? "
Boris said we would have a world beating track and trace system - 100000+ dead.
The Torys said they had ringfenced the care homes - it was carnage in the care homes.
Schools are absolutely safe said Boris - but they are closed. (Rightly).
They told the Scottish voters that if they wanted to stay in the EU they needed to reject independence - we are out.
So don’t give me that old once in a generation nonsense.
We vote in a new government every four years - maybe that should only be once in a generation |
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By *innMan
over a year ago
edinburgh |
"Surely this is a time for some unity . All we get are the self interested groups sowing there seeds of discontent.
So let us ride out the pandemic and in the era of Trump and Brexit give us less obsessed folks a break from all the bleating."
There can be no unity with an English parliament and Tory governments.
It’s done - the Union is not good for Scotland. |
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In the event of leaving Scotland would have to take on its share of the national debt, which in all liklihood would bankrupt it on day 1.
Scotland could of course refuse, in which case it would be essentially like defaulting on its debt and it would not be able to raise money via gilts, therefore essentially bankrupting it on day 1. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I don’t know what the fuss is all about. If the tories are so sure that they’re doing a good job for Scotland and that the U.K. is working well for the Scots, why don’t they let them have a referendum?
Or is it that they’re worried that they have alienated the Scots so much that they’re crapping themselves? Let the Scots decide if their future. That’s what the tories wanted before Brexit. Why shouldn’t it apply to the Scots?
So much hypocrisy in politics... And reading here the posts of Bojo’s children is laughable.
i think in the middle of a pandemic the government have alienated most people no matter what their politics
They surely have and it’s no surprise because these people in the gvt were not chosen for their competence for being Brexit puppets and nodding to Boris on everything. The argument from the tories that we shouldn’t have a referendum in the middle of a pandemic is interesting. I’m sure the SNP would be happy to have one as soon as the pandemic is over.
Rest of the UK could perhaps use the money we subsidise Scotland with to help pay the cost of the pandemic? Would Scotland then pay their share of that cost...so far covered by Westminister? What currency would an independent Scotland use? That's an argument from last time that was never answered....
Scotland already has it's own notes. That English from south of the mersey/humber line look at and go "nah, that's foreign, I'm not accepting that". So currency already sorted out..."
our notes aren’t legal tender , for every note we hold in circulation we must hold an equal value (with a head room buffer) in a bank account at the bank of england as collateral for using that note instead of the bank of england notes
referendum or not , clydesdale have already said they are stopping issuing notes now they have rebranded to virgin money |
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"I don’t know what the fuss is all about. If the tories are so sure that they’re doing a good job for Scotland and that the U.K. is working well for the Scots, why don’t they let them have a referendum?
Or is it that they’re worried that they have alienated the Scots so much that they’re crapping themselves? Let the Scots decide if their future. That’s what the tories wanted before Brexit. Why shouldn’t it apply to the Scots?
So much hypocrisy in politics... And reading here the posts of Bojo’s children is laughable.
i think in the middle of a pandemic the government have alienated most people no matter what their politics
They surely have and it’s no surprise because these people in the gvt were not chosen for their competence for being Brexit puppets and nodding to Boris on everything. The argument from the tories that we shouldn’t have a referendum in the middle of a pandemic is interesting. I’m sure the SNP would be happy to have one as soon as the pandemic is over.
Rest of the UK could perhaps use the money we subsidise Scotland with to help pay the cost of the pandemic? Would Scotland then pay their share of that cost...so far covered by Westminister? What currency would an independent Scotland use? That's an argument from last time that was never answered....
Scotland already has it's own notes. That English from south of the mersey/humber line look at and go "nah, that's foreign, I'm not accepting that". So currency already sorted out...
The problem is that Scottish banknotes are not legal tender, nor are they under-pinned by the fiscal regulations that are needed. "
You've just blown a few minds lol |
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"In the event of leaving Scotland would have to take on its share of the national debt, which in all liklihood would bankrupt it on day 1.
Scotland could of course refuse, in which case it would be essentially like defaulting on its debt and it would not be able to raise money via gilts, therefore essentially bankrupting it on day 1."
Its not quite that simple. In fact its terribly complicated.
Firstly the UK government has already stated https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/270643/uk_debt_and_the_Scotland_independence_referendum.pdf
"An independent Scottish state would become responsible for a fair and
proportionate share of the UK’s current liabilities, but a share of the outstanding stock of debt
instruments that have been issued by the UK would not be transferred to Scotland."
And
"An entirely separate contract between the continuing UK Government and an independent
Scottish state’s Government would need to be established. The respective shares of debt and the
terms of repayment would be subject to negotiation".
In short the money that is owed to lenders (ie. the Bank of England) - would continue to be owed by the rUK, and not Scotland.
That is not to say Scotland is not liable for *any* of the costs incurred by UK Government mismanagement... but this would need to be *negotiated* on a case by case basis and furthermore
"the full spectrum of assets and liabilities – past, future and
contingent – would need to be considered in negotiations between the continuing UK and Scottish Governments"
The past being of particular interest, as during the oil years (1980-2014) it can be argued that not only did no debt arise from Scotland, but that indeed, the UK Government owes Scotland for the oil it produced. Take that one with a pinch of salt though, as the Scottish government was not reconvened till 1999, so its a tough one to call.
Secondly - from a purely logical perspective...
If a purely proportional share of the debt is taken on by Scotland, even ignoring the above.
How is it that the UK is not currently bankrupt?
For your statement to be true, you would have to make the assumption that Scottish people pay no tax, produce nothing and would thus be completely incapable of servicing the debt.
Anyone living in Scotland, Nationalist or Unionist will tell you that is patently untrue.
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"In the event of leaving Scotland would have to take on its share of the national debt, which in all liklihood would bankrupt it on day 1.
Scotland could of course refuse, in which case it would be essentially like defaulting on its debt and it would not be able to raise money via gilts, therefore essentially bankrupting it on day 1.
Its not quite that simple. In fact its terribly complicated.
Firstly the UK government has already stated https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/270643/uk_debt_and_the_Scotland_independence_referendum.pdf
"An independent Scottish state would become responsible for a fair and
proportionate share of the UK’s current liabilities, but a share of the outstanding stock of debt
instruments that have been issued by the UK would not be transferred to Scotland."
And
"An entirely separate contract between the continuing UK Government and an independent
Scottish state’s Government would need to be established. The respective shares of debt and the
terms of repayment would be subject to negotiation".
In short the money that is owed to lenders (ie. the Bank of England) - would continue to be owed by the rUK, and not Scotland.
That is not to say Scotland is not liable for *any* of the costs incurred by UK Government mismanagement... but this would need to be *negotiated* on a case by case basis and furthermore
"the full spectrum of assets and liabilities – past, future and
contingent – would need to be considered in negotiations between the continuing UK and Scottish Governments"
The past being of particular interest, as during the oil years (1980-2014) it can be argued that not only did no debt arise from Scotland, but that indeed, the UK Government owes Scotland for the oil it produced. Take that one with a pinch of salt though, as the Scottish government was not reconvened till 1999, so its a tough one to call.
Secondly - from a purely logical perspective...
If a purely proportional share of the debt is taken on by Scotland, even ignoring the above.
How is it that the UK is not currently bankrupt?
For your statement to be true, you would have to make the assumption that Scottish people pay no tax, produce nothing and would thus be completely incapable of servicing the debt.
Anyone living in Scotland, Nationalist or Unionist will tell you that is patently untrue.
"
Not really, can 60 million people shoulder a debt easier than 5 million, yes they can. some countries have triple aaa ratings and lower borrowing costs and others don't. As for going back over 400 years of history... we had oil... we had a navy that stopped Spain claiming the seas lol its a ridiculous argument |
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"Mad how English people seem to know better than Scottish what is better for them.
Probally that old colonial heritage
You knew that trump wasn't good for usa.... pot kettle ... "
He wasnt good for the human race. |
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"Mad how English people seem to know better than Scottish what is better for them.
Probally that old colonial heritage
You knew that trump wasn't good for usa.... pot kettle ...
He wasnt good for the human race."
I didn't say he was, but you're still being a hypocritical, yes you are, you know you are, swallow, swallow it, good boy... oh I over role play |
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"Mad how English people seem to know better than Scottish what is better for them.
Probally that old colonial heritage
You knew that trump wasn't good for usa.... pot kettle ...
He wasnt good for the human race.
I didn't say he was, but you're still being a hypocritical, yes you are, you know you are, swallow, swallow it, good boy... oh I over role play "
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"In the event of leaving Scotland would have to take on its share of the national debt, which in all liklihood would bankrupt it on day 1.
Scotland could of course refuse, in which case it would be essentially like defaulting on its debt and it would not be able to raise money via gilts, therefore essentially bankrupting it on day 1.
Its not quite that simple. In fact its terribly complicated.
Firstly the UK government has already stated https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/270643/uk_debt_and_the_Scotland_independence_referendum.pdf
"An independent Scottish state would become responsible for a fair and
proportionate share of the UK’s current liabilities, but a share of the outstanding stock of debt
instruments that have been issued by the UK would not be transferred to Scotland."
And
"An entirely separate contract between the continuing UK Government and an independent
Scottish state’s Government would need to be established. The respective shares of debt and the
terms of repayment would be subject to negotiation".
In short the money that is owed to lenders (ie. the Bank of England) - would continue to be owed by the rUK, and not Scotland.
That is not to say Scotland is not liable for *any* of the costs incurred by UK Government mismanagement... but this would need to be *negotiated* on a case by case basis and furthermore
"the full spectrum of assets and liabilities – past, future and
contingent – would need to be considered in negotiations between the continuing UK and Scottish Governments"
The past being of particular interest, as during the oil years (1980-2014) it can be argued that not only did no debt arise from Scotland, but that indeed, the UK Government owes Scotland for the oil it produced. Take that one with a pinch of salt though, as the Scottish government was not reconvened till 1999, so its a tough one to call.
Secondly - from a purely logical perspective...
If a purely proportional share of the debt is taken on by Scotland, even ignoring the above.
How is it that the UK is not currently bankrupt?
For your statement to be true, you would have to make the assumption that Scottish people pay no tax, produce nothing and would thus be completely incapable of servicing the debt.
Anyone living in Scotland, Nationalist or Unionist will tell you that is patently untrue.
Not really, can 60 million people shoulder a debt easier than 5 million, yes they can. some countries have triple aaa ratings and lower borrowing costs and others don't. As for going back over 400 years of history... we had oil... we had a navy that stopped Spain claiming the seas lol its a ridiculous argument "
If the debt per capita is proportional then the load should be the same wouldn't you agree?
If your contention regards how we manage our debt in addition to making reparations to the rUK, then that would be a valid point. Although I do find it amusing that I have to provide your arguments for you.
I don't have any answer to the threat of Spanish marauders though if thats any consolation. Maybe we should consult Admiral Nelson? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Wee Jimmy...We want our FREEEEEEEEEDOM!!!!! but owned by The EU of course!!"
I want my DEMOCRACY back and TAKE BACK control!!! But only me - not my friends up north. |
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cutting and pasting is messing that up but
direct laws of physics dont apply regards load and proportions.. i understand your argument, every person is carrying one sack but...
small farm, one guy gets sick no crops are got in
big farm one guy goes sick plenty to get crop in
or staff hospital or .... make vaccines! or fight off spanish warships before they steal your waters, thanks queenie lol |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Leaving the EU didn't seem to bother the SNP at the last referendum "
Why should the SNP be less hypocritical that our PM?
If you really believe in democracy and if you really think that the union is great for them, let them decide. If it’s good enough for them, they will stay. Simples as the Brexiteers would say. Why complicating it? |
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"cutting and pasting is messing that up but
direct laws of physics dont apply regards load and proportions.. i understand your argument, every person is carrying one sack but...
small farm, one guy gets sick no crops are got in
big farm one guy goes sick plenty to get crop in
or staff hospital or .... make vaccines! or fight off spanish warships before they steal your waters, thanks queenie lol "
Yeah but here's the thing - plenty of other nations of similar size seem to be getting on just fine.
Ireland for instance.
Unless there's something particular about the Irish that terrifies Spaniards? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"cutting and pasting is messing that up but
direct laws of physics dont apply regards load and proportions.. i understand your argument, every person is carrying one sack but...
small farm, one guy gets sick no crops are got in
big farm one guy goes sick plenty to get crop in
or staff hospital or .... make vaccines! or fight off spanish warships before they steal your waters, thanks queenie lol
Yeah but here's the thing - plenty of other nations of similar size seem to be getting on just fine.
Ireland for instance.
Unless there's something particular about the Irish that terrifies Spaniards?"
Republic of Scotland! It sounds great! Upward and onward! |
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"cutting and pasting is messing that up but
direct laws of physics dont apply regards load and proportions.. i understand your argument, every person is carrying one sack but...
small farm, one guy gets sick no crops are got in
big farm one guy goes sick plenty to get crop in
or staff hospital or .... make vaccines! or fight off spanish warships before they steal your waters, thanks queenie lol
Yeah but here's the thing - plenty of other nations of similar size seem to be getting on just fine.
Ireland for instance.
Unless there's something particular about the Irish that terrifies Spaniards?"
Think invasion from south and east is easier than approaching from atlantic?
im not going to start pointing out problems with every small country lol i mean monaco is doing great! thats fucked my point of view, but cant see them beating france in a straight fight... and if you ignore all the legal mess and just say a nation can be small so there, yes it can and it can also get swallowed up and of course that would then be an issue for England. HHmmmmm its not simple |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"cutting and pasting is messing that up but
direct laws of physics dont apply regards load and proportions.. i understand your argument, every person is carrying one sack but...
small farm, one guy gets sick no crops are got in
big farm one guy goes sick plenty to get crop in
or staff hospital or .... make vaccines! or fight off spanish warships before they steal your waters, thanks queenie lol
Yeah but here's the thing - plenty of other nations of similar size seem to be getting on just fine.
Ireland for instance.
Unless there's something particular about the Irish that terrifies Spaniards?
Think invasion from south and east is easier than approaching from atlantic?
im not going to start pointing out problems with every small country lol i mean monaco is doing great! thats fucked my point of view, but cant see them beating france in a straight fight... and if you ignore all the legal mess and just say a nation can be small so there, yes it can and it can also get swallowed up and of course that would then be an issue for England. HHmmmmm its not simple "
Oh, is that a nice ‘project fear’ I can see here?
The legal mess? They already have their own judiciary and education systems. That’s sorted.
As for fighting, who would attack Scotland seriously? Norway? The Swedes? The French? Get real. They’d be welcome by other European countries. Remember the Auld Alliance.
Everything the Scots have ever done to piss off the English has always been applauded in Europe and the French especially.
Arguments are wearing thin, I see.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Leaving the EU didn't seem to bother the SNP at the last referendum
Why should the SNP be less hypocritical that our PM?
If you really believe in democracy and if you really think that the union is great for them, let them decide. If it’s good enough for them, they will stay. Simples as the Brexiteers would say. Why complicating it?"
I couldn't give a toss if they leave or not. If that's what the Scottish want then good for them. I just believe the the SNP and Sturgeon in particular are talking bollocks |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Leaving the EU didn't seem to bother the SNP at the last referendum
Why should the SNP be less hypocritical that our PM?
If you really believe in democracy and if you really think that the union is great for them, let them decide. If it’s good enough for them, they will stay. Simples as the Brexiteers would say. Why complicating it?
I couldn't give a toss if they leave or not. If that's what the Scottish want then good for them. I just believe the the SNP and Sturgeon in particular are talking bollocks "
Well it doesn’t sound like you don’t care about it. Your master seems to care very much though.
Fascinating how you can spot somebody talking bollocks and drink Bojo’s bs as if it was God’s milk. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Leaving the EU didn't seem to bother the SNP at the last referendum
Why should the SNP be less hypocritical that our PM?
If you really believe in democracy and if you really think that the union is great for them, let them decide. If it’s good enough for them, they will stay. Simples as the Brexiteers would say. Why complicating it?
I couldn't give a toss if they leave or not. If that's what the Scottish want then good for them. I just believe the the SNP and Sturgeon in particular are talking bollocks
Well it doesn’t sound like you don’t care about it. Your master seems to care very much though.
Fascinating how you can spot somebody talking bollocks and drink Bojo’s bs as if it was God’s milk. "
What the hell is wrong with you?  |
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It truly would be a massive leap of faith. I personally am agnostic and the thought of making my fellow countrymen poorer. Just to satisfy the flag wavers egos is not for me. Show concrete plans and an economic plan. Then we can vote in possession of facts and not some wishful thinking by a hard core dogmatic faction of the general population |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Leaving the EU didn't seem to bother the SNP at the last referendum
Why should the SNP be less hypocritical that our PM?
If you really believe in democracy and if you really think that the union is great for them, let them decide. If it’s good enough for them, they will stay. Simples as the Brexiteers would say. Why complicating it?
I couldn't give a toss if they leave or not. If that's what the Scottish want then good for them. I just believe the the SNP and Sturgeon in particular are talking bollocks
Well it doesn’t sound like you don’t care about it. Your master seems to care very much though.
Fascinating how you can spot somebody talking bollocks and drink Bojo’s bs as if it was God’s milk.
What the hell is wrong with you? "
I’m all fine.
Is it not the idea of a forum to express your opinions and underline other people’s contradictions when they can see some politicians’ shortcomings but not their own idols’?
I trust the Scots. (Not the Scottish by the way). I trust them to make the right decision for themselves.
Great country that has seen so many I ventilons and that has been at the forefront of so many things. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Meant so many inventions. Sorry for typo everyone.
So many things have been invented in Scotland. Considering the size of the country, they have done so well.
As for having a concrete plan, it’s probably difficult. A bit like the Brexiteers never had a proper plan before leaving. I guess they could try to have lie on the side of a bus. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Meant so many inventions. Sorry for typo everyone.
So many things have been invented in Scotland. Considering the size of the country, they have done so well.
As for having a concrete plan, it’s probably difficult. A bit like the Brexiteers never had a proper plan before leaving. I guess they could try to have lie on the side of a bus. "
You need help mate. I'll leave it there |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Meant so many inventions. Sorry for typo everyone.
So many things have been invented in Scotland. Considering the size of the country, they have done so well.
As for having a concrete plan, it’s probably difficult. A bit like the Brexiteers never had a proper plan before leaving. I guess they could try to have lie on the side of a bus.
You need help mate. I'll leave it there "
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"The SNP can hold an unofficial referendum, I'm holding one to lol but the deal done in 1707 stands, sorry, its another court case, I don't make the rules!
I did wonder how one side of a union can demand its end, surely Scotland would have to compensate us? But apparently England is suppose to vote as well. "
aw ffs just let em leave |
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"It truly would be a massive leap of faith. I personally am agnostic and the thought of making my fellow countrymen poorer. Just to satisfy the flag wavers egos is not for me. Show concrete plans and an economic plan. Then we can vote in possession of facts and not some wishful thinking by a hard core dogmatic faction of the general population "
at least someone is using common sense but dont feel bad about waving a flag, unless it slags off lgbt lol |
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By *uietbloke67Man
over a year ago
outside your bedroom window ;-) |
"Scotland, as a sovereign nation, what legality does the UK parliament have in refusing to either grant permission for, or refuse to accept the result of a referendum unsanctioned by themselves?
I don't remember the UK having to ask the EU for permission to have a referendum. Why should Scotland require permission to exit what has supposedly been a voluntary union?
How can we call ourselves democratic when we refuse our nearest neighbours the right to decide self determination?
Scotland isnt a sovereign nation. Like the Basques in Spain it is an area within the UK mainland"
Your at the wind up aren't you, come on now your not that daft |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Scotland, as a sovereign nation, what legality does the UK parliament have in refusing to either grant permission for, or refuse to accept the result of a referendum unsanctioned by themselves?
I don't remember the UK having to ask the EU for permission to have a referendum. Why should Scotland require permission to exit what has supposedly been a voluntary union?
How can we call ourselves democratic when we refuse our nearest neighbours the right to decide self determination?
"
Non of that makes sense. Your comparisons are not even relavant or have any correlation. |
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"Scotland, as a sovereign nation, what legality does the UK parliament have in refusing to either grant permission for, or refuse to accept the result of a referendum unsanctioned by themselves?
I don't remember the UK having to ask the EU for permission to have a referendum. Why should Scotland require permission to exit what has supposedly been a voluntary union?
How can we call ourselves democratic when we refuse our nearest neighbours the right to decide self determination?
Non of that makes sense. Your comparisons are not even relavant or have any correlation."
i think some are just doing it to provoke a reaction and others actually have no idea they are talking bollocks |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Scotland, as a sovereign nation, what legality does the UK parliament have in refusing to either grant permission for, or refuse to accept the result of a referendum unsanctioned by themselves?
I don't remember the UK having to ask the EU for permission to have a referendum. Why should Scotland require permission to exit what has supposedly been a voluntary union?
How can we call ourselves democratic when we refuse our nearest neighbours the right to decide self determination?
"
They did and it was no.
Replaying the referendum they had until they get the right answer is wrong.
We had to deal with brexit, so they should stop this oppotunistic power grab nationalists are twats. |
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"The bookies have cut the odds on wee nicola getting ousted by the end of the year to 2/1 that could be a nice earner. "
Lots going on... which is now being picked up by msm.
Anyone heard from her since last week??? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Rest of the UK could perhaps use the money we subsidise Scotland with to help pay the cost of the pandemic? Would Scotland then pay their share of that cost...so far covered by Westminister? What currency would an independent Scotland use? That's an argument from last time that was never answered...."
You do know the money being splashed around by Westminster doesn’t come from England? It’s borrowed.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The bookies have cut the odds on wee nicola getting ousted by the end of the year to 2/1 that could be a nice earner.
Lots going on... which is now being picked up by msm.
Anyone heard from her since last week???"
They might try and reduce the voting age to 14 this time |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Rest of the UK could perhaps use the money we subsidise Scotland with to help pay the cost of the pandemic? Would Scotland then pay their share of that cost...so far covered by Westminister? What currency would an independent Scotland use? That's an argument from last time that was never answered....
You do know the money being splashed around by Westminster doesn’t come from England? It’s borrowed.
"
Show me one country that hasn't and isn't borrowing money to the hilt. There's near zero interest on any borrowing ATM at that level |
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Unsurprisingly the express have ran the bookies story and has accused her of hypocrisy for criticising boris's trip to Scotland.
I completely forgot about that unnecessary trip to England
Another thread to bookmark. |
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SNP and Sturgeon vocal about PM visiting British troops supporting an already underperforming vaccination programme being botched by the SNP administration ...
Has said nothing about the EU vaccine blockade, something which united the most opposite of political parties in their condemnation.
Mind you, I see the SNP still have their own priorities - party NEC meeting over the weekend / carving up the SNP candidate list for the May elections, using a policy that legal advice they themselves asked for said would be not be legal and if challenged they would lose in court...
The covers are starting to come off -time to Save Our Scotland
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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We need to save Scotland from itself, the same rhetoric which fuelled Brexit is being used in Scotland. Sturgeon is no better than Farage, she hides it well, but her ultimate end game is to destroy the union.
Democracy is truly fragile, and I see that the SNP have played on the Scottish people’s fears of being ignored.
Scotland is a equal partner just like the other nations in the UK.
The brexiteers and their Ilk would have you believe otherwise.
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