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One for the mathematical minds
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Actually a quick calculation using data found on google indicates it's only a few hundred but the problem might be the demand in early evening when people get home from work all plugging in and switching on their cookers etc, especially if the wind drops  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Maybe the idea is to put them all in the English channel to stop those pesky French fishing boats getting to our fish.! "
Our loyal British fish will do everything in their power not to be caught by the enemy! |
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By *ackal1Couple
over a year ago
Manchester |
"How many wind turbines will be required to charge cars and vans if as many as 50% of those in the roads today we're electric ?"
I think as wind power is approaching 20% of private electric uptake so we need 5 times what we have to power housing ( not industry) so guess would be at least twice that as car batteries take a lot more power than your kettles and light bulbs.
Some one else posted this recently and it is an issue . You have to replace the batteries after 3-4 years and the cost will be equivalent to replacing an engine . Ouch
On top of this disposal or recycling processes for used batteries is progressing but a long way off being able to cope.
Norway is light years ahead of us but still struggles with infrastructure and political parties there are now fighting for a reduction in road toll costs as they were raised to compensate for the loss of fuel tax and to encourage public transport.
They can drop the tax as it’s a rich country. We can’t afford to.
Another thing if you live in a flat or have on street parking I think £4Billion is a drop in the ocean on infrastructure spending.
I must be cynical but strange how the banning of cars is announced at the same time the PPE scandal breaks!
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"Actually a quick calculation using data found on google indicates it's only a few hundred but the problem might be the demand in early evening when people get home from work all plugging in and switching on their cookers etc, especially if the wind drops "
That's not my maths
Personally I think the energy required to replace 50 percent of total passenger vehicle fuel usage has been vastly underestimated
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Renewable energy is fickle california had rolling blackouts during a heatwave the demand is too high. "
The key is to have a diverse range of sources.
Solar, tidal, wind, wave, hydroelectric.
The government here put their stock into solar. In the UK. Morons.
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By *oggoneMan
over a year ago
Derry |
"How many wind turbines will be required to charge cars and vans if as many as 50% of those in the roads today we're electric ?"
ooof, lets put the wind turbine part for starters. So you want to know what the electrical consumption would be if 50% of cars & vans (not hgv).
For the purposes of modelling lets assume a fuel efficiency of 20kW-h/100km.
DoT stats reports 537 billion Km in total 2019) accross for cars and light commercial vehicles. So 50% would be 269 billion km.
OK so assuming the fuel efficiency above would mean total fuel consumption 54 billion kw-h |
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"Renewable energy is fickle california had rolling blackouts during a heatwave the demand is too high.
"
But we don't generally have AC, so that's fine...
;-)
I don't think our biggest problem is vehicles (slow charge over night, even switched in and out when other demands come online).
It's when the government also starts to switch domestic heating etc. to electricity, there's a lot of gas at present. |
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"Renewable energy is fickle california had rolling blackouts during a heatwave the demand is too high.
But we don't generally have AC, so that's fine...
;-)
I don't think our biggest problem is vehicles (slow charge over night, even switched in and out when other demands come online).
It's when the government also starts to switch domestic heating etc. to electricity, there's a lot of gas at present.
"
Though ground heat pumps are probably more efficient for that... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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This comes into my field. The truthful answer is more than we could work out. The NG has to jump into over drive just for half time in an England game.
Now taking that into account, the question is more. How do we store the xy hours of non rush hour. Then how many KW will that take to run outwith the 50+ billion KW for rush hour.
The only real way to Test would be taking a toll road, let’s say the M6 Toll. Then test out for a year. Then the cost of infrastructure.
Now if money was not an issue, I would go with solar power supported by wind.
Simple answer would be 17,000 per day per wind turbine X1. But that depends on wind speed thus why no one can give a good account of what each turbine will give. In year 5 what kind of cost will the turbine need to keep up with demand.
So all in all wind is not the only answer! |
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"This comes into my field. The truthful answer is more than we could work out. The NG has to jump into over drive just for half time in an England game.
Now taking that into account, the question is more. How do we store the xy hours of non rush hour. Then how many KW will that take to run outwith the 50+ billion KW for rush hour.
The only real way to Test would be taking a toll road, let’s say the M6 Toll. Then test out for a year. Then the cost of infrastructure.
Now if money was not an issue, I would go with solar power supported by wind.
Simple answer would be 17,000 per day per wind turbine X1. But that depends on wind speed thus why no one can give a good account of what each turbine will give. In year 5 what kind of cost will the turbine need to keep up with demand.
So all in all wind is not the only answer! "
True a good point they could pop a few turbines in the politics forum as others produce a lot of wind and hot air on here.  |
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By *ackal1Couple
over a year ago
Manchester |
"This comes into my field. The truthful answer is more than we could work out. The NG has to jump into over drive just for half time in an England game.
Now taking that into account, the question is more. How do we store the xy hours of non rush hour. Then how many KW will that take to run outwith the 50+ billion KW for rush hour.
The only real way to Test would be taking a toll road, let’s say the M6 Toll. Then test out for a year. Then the cost of infrastructure.
Now if money was not an issue, I would go with solar power supported by wind.
Simple answer would be 17,000 per day per wind turbine X1. But that depends on wind speed thus why no one can give a good account of what each turbine will give. In year 5 what kind of cost will the turbine need to keep up with demand.
So all in all wind is not the only answer!
True a good point they could pop a few turbines in the politics forum as others produce a lot of wind and hot air on here. "
Happy to do our bit for the environment!!  |
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https://www.sciencefocus.com/science/if-every-petrol-or-diesel-car-in-the-uk-was-replaced-with-an-electric-car-how-many-charging-points-would-we-need/
Estimated additional 18 GW, plans for offshore wind may add 16 GW.
However, that assumes all present car owners continue, no widespread uptake of car pooling or improvements to public transport. Also smart power management would reduce the extra demand to some extent.
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"This comes into my field. The truthful answer is more than we could work out. The NG has to jump into over drive just for half time in an England game.
Now taking that into account, the question is more. How do we store the xy hours of non rush hour. Then how many KW will that take to run outwith the 50+ billion KW for rush hour.
The only real way to Test would be taking a toll road, let’s say the M6 Toll. Then test out for a year. Then the cost of infrastructure.
Now if money was not an issue, I would go with solar power supported by wind.
Simple answer would be 17,000 per day per wind turbine X1. But that depends on wind speed thus why no one can give a good account of what each turbine will give. In year 5 what kind of cost will the turbine need to keep up with demand.
So all in all wind is not the only answer! "
Yes looks like a combination as many have said. Regarding the lost energy in non peak time there was an interesting story on the news the other week showing a new energy storage system designed for wind turbines that uses liquid air. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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The question is not so much how many turbines are required but how much money does Johnston
and friends intend to throw at friends, school buddies and jewellery designers to facilitate this conversion? |
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"The question is not so much how many turbines are required but how much money does Johnston
and friends intend to throw at friends, school buddies and jewellery designers to facilitate this conversion?"
That's not my question at all, please feel free to start your own post though |
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It would be helpful if each county in Britain had to generate a proportion of its own power. Relying on Wales, Scotland, Thames Estuary and East Anglia to do it isn’t enough. It should be a mix, for example Surrey could go for Wind Farms, Berkshire for solar, etc. Putting Wind Farms all over Wales is ugly and it would be more equitable if each area had to do their own. London and B’ham could have a mix of solar and wind!  |
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By *atEvolutionCouple
over a year ago
atlantisEVOLUTION Swingers Club. Stoke |
Wind and Solar is stored into battery arrays so on-peak power demands can be catered for.
Most power is actually used during the day as the closure of daytime offices/industry etc uses more than evening power. |
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"Wind and Solar is stored into battery arrays so on-peak power demands can be catered for.
Most power is actually used during the day as the closure of daytime offices/industry etc uses more than evening power."
Fair point but what about the grid capacity
It's going to take a lot of smart management and a fair bit of upgrading
Still they've a few years yet to sort it out. |
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By *atEvolutionCouple
over a year ago
atlantisEVOLUTION Swingers Club. Stoke |
Ignoring anything political . . . many angles and general ideas of the way forward.
We really should have been doing this since the late 80's. Nuclear was really just about plutonium enrichment. I believe to this day that the West and East were sold the 'endless power' dream just so that we could just say yes to the massive sums involved in building Nuclear.
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/new-plans-to-make-uk-world-leader-in-green-energy |
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"Ignoring anything political . . . many angles and general ideas of the way forward.
We really should have been doing this since the late 80's. Nuclear was really just about plutonium enrichment. I believe to this day that the West and East were sold the 'endless power' dream just so that we could just say yes to the massive sums involved in building Nuclear.
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/new-plans-to-make-uk-world-leader-in-green-energy"
I'll have more faith in the promised investment when we start to see the benefits of brexit rather than more and more borrowing with no plan to repay. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Ignoring anything political . . . many angles and general ideas of the way forward.
We really should have been doing this since the late 80's. Nuclear was really just about plutonium enrichment. I believe to this day that the West and East were sold the 'endless power' dream just so that we could just say yes to the massive sums involved in building Nuclear.
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/new-plans-to-make-uk-world-leader-in-green-energy
I'll have more faith in the promised investment when we start to see the benefits of brexit rather than more and more borrowing with no plan to repay."
It’s a perfect tactic really - leave the common market just before the EU chain themselves to expensive “green“ energy, then sell them that green energy from the UK grid at a much higher price.
Let’s not forget that EU energy policy is set by countries with tiny fossil fuel reserves but huge capacity to design “economical” renewable solutions (have you seen how much metals have to be mined and shipped out of Africa to make a wind turbine/solar panel?)
Try convincing developing countries to buy the Siemens HyperTurbine3000 that will cost €3m and need repairs every 6 months when they can just drill their own oil and run a generator |
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"Wind and Solar is stored into battery arrays so on-peak power demands can be catered for.
Most power is actually used during the day as the closure of daytime offices/industry etc uses more than evening power.
Fair point but what about the grid capacity
It's going to take a lot of smart management and a fair bit of upgrading
Still they've a few years yet to sort it out."
But that’s the point that the luddites don’t want to take on board. The change will be incremental and manageable by private industry and local solutions, providing the government just sets clear economic pathways in terms of taxation and revenue. The market will sort out everything else. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Wind and Solar is stored into battery arrays so on-peak power demands can be catered for.
Most power is actually used during the day as the closure of daytime offices/industry etc uses more than evening power.
Fair point but what about the grid capacity
It's going to take a lot of smart management and a fair bit of upgrading
Still they've a few years yet to sort it out.
But that’s the point that the luddites don’t want to take on board. The change will be incremental and manageable by private industry and local solutions, providing the government just sets clear economic pathways in terms of taxation and revenue. The market will sort out everything else. "
Just don’t end up like Ireland, plugging into the French grid for nuclear power at extortionate rates to meet the last 10% of our “clean” energy needs  |
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"We need tidal power. You can set your watch by it and it can generate huge amounts."
Trouble is there are not that many places around the UK with sufficient tidal stream, many are in remote areas like the Pentland Firth and getting the power to where it is needed becomes extremely challenging and expensive. Plus the technology is not well developed yet. Larger schemes like the Severn Barrage have high build costs and serious environmental impacts. |
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