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Gender identity
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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I place this here because it is political.
I read an article about women and breast cancer but also to all genders. Hmm, I thought genders were binary but it seems there are as many as 72. It’s not about anatomy, it’s about perception, I read. Ok.
What I can’t revise my thinking on is the term ‘owners of a vagina’ in articles. I’d support to my dying breath the individual’s right to be supported in choice but I cannot accept that someone with a vagina is anything other than a woman. Vaginas can’t be created by surgery, neither can the uterus. I find the idea that surgery can make a man a woman or a woman a man, offensive.
There will be some who disagree but all are allowed an opinion. |
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" I find the idea that surgery can make a man a woman or a woman a man, offensive.
"
So? There are people who find homosexuality offensive, it doesn't mean anything.
Maybe read up on the differences between sex and gender.
But ultimately, trans people are some of the most vulnerable and discriminated against in society.
If you want to be an empathetic and caring human, people should try focusing on that and not endless nitpicking about definitions. |
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You tell us what you find offensive and yet I don't see that you're asking anything, amongst your various parts of your thought processes, seemingly encompassing freedoms and being offended. Are you trying to support people? |
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"I place this here because it is political.
I read an article about women and breast cancer but also to all genders. Hmm, I thought genders were binary but it seems there are as many as 72. It’s not about anatomy, it’s about perception, I read. Ok.
What I can’t revise my thinking on is the term ‘owners of a vagina’ in articles. I’d support to my dying breath the individual’s right to be supported in choice but I cannot accept that someone with a vagina is anything other than a woman. Vaginas can’t be created by surgery, neither can the uterus. I find the idea that surgery can make a man a woman or a woman a man, offensive.
There will be some who disagree but all are allowed an opinion."
Let me see if I can help.
Can we first agree that the purely mechanical makeup of a human being does not absolutely guarantee their gender. Women can be born with XY chromosomes, and men can be born with XX chromosomes.Similarly sex organs are not guaranteed - men and women may be born with some, or none of the "required" parts.
Now granted... these cases are rare. However it does beg the question.
Are they any less of a man or woman, if they have an odd chromosomal makeup, or some of their bits are missing?
If we can agree the answer is no - as I am sure any reasonable person would, then that would imply that the condition of man/womanhood is not determined by anatomy.
From that point on you can simply apply the duck test.
"When I see a bird that walks like a duck and swims like a duck and quacks like a duck, I call that bird a duck."
|
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"I place this here because it is political.
I read an article about women and breast cancer but also to all genders. Hmm, I thought genders were binary but it seems there are as many as 72. It’s not about anatomy, it’s about perception, I read. Ok.
What I can’t revise my thinking on is the term ‘owners of a vagina’ in articles. I’d support to my dying breath the individual’s right to be supported in choice but I cannot accept that someone with a vagina is anything other
than a woman. Vaginas can’t be created by surgery, neither can the uterus. I find the idea that surgery can make a man a woman or a woman a man, offensive.
There will be some who disagree but all are allowed an opinion."
I fully agree and good of you make these comments |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
No. A vaginoplasty is just that. It’s not a uterus or a vagina. That’s not to say I find it offensive or gender reassignment wrong or strange- not at all. My issue is with the term ‘all owners of a vagina/uterus’- the term is ‘woman’.
A lot of women feel as I do though, that the term ‘woman’ can’t be used to include any gender that fancies it, and feel genuinely annoyed that it happens. It feels, to me and to others I think, like a dilution of one’s being. I doubt many men might understand but I’d be interested to hear what other women think. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"I place this here because it is political.
I read an article about women and breast cancer but also to all genders. Hmm, I thought genders were binary but it seems there are as many as 72. It’s not about anatomy, it’s about perception, I read. Ok.
What I can’t revise my thinking on is the term ‘owners of a vagina’ in articles. I’d support to my dying breath the individual’s right to be supported in choice but I cannot accept that someone with a vagina is anything other than a woman. Vaginas can’t be created by surgery, neither can the uterus. I find the idea that surgery can make a man a woman or a woman a man, offensive.
There will be some who disagree but all are allowed an opinion.
Let me see if I can help.
Can we first agree that the purely mechanical makeup of a human being does not absolutely guarantee their gender. Women can be born with XY chromosomes, and men can be born with XX chromosomes.Similarly sex organs are not guaranteed - men and women may be born with some, or none of the "required" parts.
Now granted... these cases are rare. However it does beg the question.
Are they any less of a man or woman, if they have an odd chromosomal makeup, or some of their bits are missing?
If we can agree the answer is no - as I am sure any reasonable person would, then that would imply that the condition of man/womanhood is not determined by anatomy.
From that point on you can simply apply the duck test.
"When I see a bird that walks like a duck and swims like a duck and quacks like a duck, I call that bird a duck."
"
You conflate gender and anatomy. Women are XX . A genetically XY is male. Either may identify as the other sex but that is at odds with genetic makeup and it’s that essence of being a woman that is diluted by wishful thinking.
Hermaphrodites are the only exclusion to self determination. |
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"I place this here because it is political.
I read an article about women and breast cancer but also to all genders. Hmm, I thought genders were binary but it seems there are as many as 72. It’s not about anatomy, it’s about perception, I read. Ok.
What I can’t revise my thinking on is the term ‘owners of a vagina’ in articles. I’d support to my dying breath the individual’s right to be supported in choice but I cannot accept that someone with a vagina is anything other than a woman. Vaginas can’t be created by surgery, neither can the uterus. I find the idea that surgery can make a man a woman or a woman a man, offensive.
There will be some who disagree but all are allowed an opinion.
Let me see if I can help.
Can we first agree that the purely mechanical makeup of a human being does not absolutely guarantee their gender. Women can be born with XY chromosomes, and men can be born with XX chromosomes.Similarly sex organs are not guaranteed - men and women may be born with some, or none of the "required" parts.
Now granted... these cases are rare. However it does beg the question.
Are they any less of a man or woman, if they have an odd chromosomal makeup, or some of their bits are missing?
If we can agree the answer is no - as I am sure any reasonable person would, then that would imply that the condition of man/womanhood is not determined by anatomy.
From that point on you can simply apply the duck test.
"When I see a bird that walks like a duck and swims like a duck and quacks like a duck, I call that bird a duck."
You conflate gender and anatomy. Women are XX . A genetically XY is male. Either may identify as the other sex but that is at odds with genetic makeup and it’s that essence of being a woman that is diluted by wishful thinking.
Hermaphrodites are the only exclusion to self determination. "
I rather think the reverse is true. I am in fact saying that gender and anatomy are separate.
Some people are born with XY chromosomes and female sex organs - this is a genuinely a real thing. Are they in fact men?
If an XY person born with a vagina identified as a man - could you deny them?
|
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I place this here because it is political.
I read an article about women and breast cancer but also to all genders. Hmm, I thought genders were binary but it seems there are as many as 72. It’s not about anatomy, it’s about perception, I read. Ok.
What I can’t revise my thinking on is the term ‘owners of a vagina’ in articles. I’d support to my dying breath the individual’s right to be supported in choice but I cannot accept that someone with a vagina is anything other than a woman. Vaginas can’t be created by surgery, neither can the uterus. I find the idea that surgery can make a man a woman or a woman a man, offensive.
There will be some who disagree but all are allowed an opinion."
I saw a clip from that guy Milos Fillipooseyolussss "might have spelt it a little wrong"....
anyway it's was like some Uni lecture / debate about gender association / how people define themselves and someone "male dressed as female I think" in the audience stood up saying if they identify as a girl then he/she IS a girl.
So Milos asked how old they were, they answered 22 or whatever, so Milos said why aren't you 60, not 22, why aren't you 60 and they were stumped and the only answer they had was because I'm not.
Not agreeing or disagreeing but I thought good argument    |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I place this here because it is political.
I read an article about women and breast cancer but also to all genders. Hmm, I thought genders were binary but it seems there are as many as 72. It’s not about anatomy, it’s about perception, I read. Ok.
What I can’t revise my thinking on is the term ‘owners of a vagina’ in articles. I’d support to my dying breath the individual’s right to be supported in choice but I cannot accept that someone with a vagina is anything other than a woman. Vaginas can’t be created by surgery, neither can the uterus. I find the idea that surgery can make a man a woman or a woman a man, offensive.
There will be some who disagree but all are allowed an opinion.
Let me see if I can help.
Can we first agree that the purely mechanical makeup of a human being does not absolutely guarantee their gender. Women can be born with XY chromosomes, and men can be born with XX chromosomes.Similarly sex organs are not guaranteed - men and women may be born with some, or none of the "required" parts.
Now granted... these cases are rare. However it does beg the question.
Are they any less of a man or woman, if they have an odd chromosomal makeup, or some of their bits are missing?
If we can agree the answer is no - as I am sure any reasonable person would, then that would imply that the condition of man/womanhood is not determined by anatomy.
From that point on you can simply apply the duck test.
"When I see a bird that walks like a duck and swims like a duck and quacks like a duck, I call that bird a duck."
"
So a guy on here says he's got a 12" cock but you meet him and you measure it at 1"
When asked about the sex by your mates and they ask about his cock do you tell them it was 1" or what he says and it was 12" |
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By *dsindyTV/TS
over a year ago
East Lancashire |
"Hmmmmm.so you have created this post just to tell everyone that you find the idea of anyone assuming a gender identity different from their birth gender offensive....yes?"
Sorry...you find the idea of SURGERY in these cases offensive? |
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"I place this here because it is political.
I read an article about women and breast cancer but also to all genders. Hmm, I thought genders were binary but it seems there are as many as 72. It’s not about anatomy, it’s about perception, I read. Ok.
What I can’t revise my thinking on is the term ‘owners of a vagina’ in articles. I’d support to my dying breath the individual’s right to be supported in choice but I cannot accept that someone with a vagina is anything other than a woman. Vaginas can’t be created by surgery, neither can the uterus. I find the idea that surgery can make a man a woman or a woman a man, offensive.
There will be some who disagree but all are allowed an opinion.
I saw a clip from that guy Milos Fillipooseyolussss "might have spelt it a little wrong"....
anyway it's was like some Uni lecture / debate about gender association / how people define themselves and someone "male dressed as female I think" in the audience stood up saying if they identify as a girl then he/she IS a girl.
So Milos asked how old they were, they answered 22 or whatever, so Milos said why aren't you 60, not 22, why aren't you 60 and they were stumped and the only answer they had was because I'm not.
Not agreeing or disagreeing but I thought good argument "
It's not a good argument whatsoever, because "age dysphoria" is not a thing that happens to people.
Gender dysphoria is.
Too many people spout off about this issue without having done any basic reading on what trans people experience - or on the medical science on the subject.
Transitioning is medically recognised as the best method for people to deal with (and survive) dysphoria. |
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"I place this here because it is political.
I read an article about women and breast cancer but also to all genders. Hmm, I thought genders were binary but it seems there are as many as 72. It’s not about anatomy, it’s about perception, I read. Ok.
What I can’t revise my thinking on is the term ‘owners of a vagina’ in articles. I’d support to my dying breath the individual’s right to be supported in choice but I cannot accept that someone with a vagina is anything other than a woman. Vaginas can’t be created by surgery, neither can the uterus. I find the idea that surgery can make a man a woman or a woman a man, offensive.
There will be some who disagree but all are allowed an opinion.
Let me see if I can help.
Can we first agree that the purely mechanical makeup of a human being does not absolutely guarantee their gender. Women can be born with XY chromosomes, and men can be born with XX chromosomes.Similarly sex organs are not guaranteed - men and women may be born with some, or none of the "required" parts.
Now granted... these cases are rare. However it does beg the question.
Are they any less of a man or woman, if they have an odd chromosomal makeup, or some of their bits are missing?
If we can agree the answer is no - as I am sure any reasonable person would, then that would imply that the condition of man/womanhood is not determined by anatomy.
From that point on you can simply apply the duck test.
"When I see a bird that walks like a duck and swims like a duck and quacks like a duck, I call that bird a duck."
So a guy on here says he's got a 12" cock but you meet him and you measure it at 1"
When asked about the sex by your mates and they ask about his cock do you tell them it was 1" or what he says and it was 12""
Comparing a complex aspect of a person like gender to something you can determine with a ruler really just shows you haven't got a clue what you're talking about on this subject. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I place this here because it is political.
I read an article about women and breast cancer but also to all genders. Hmm, I thought genders were binary but it seems there are as many as 72. It’s not about anatomy, it’s about perception, I read. Ok.
What I can’t revise my thinking on is the term ‘owners of a vagina’ in articles. I’d support to my dying breath the individual’s right to be supported in choice but I cannot accept that someone with a vagina is anything other than a woman. Vaginas can’t be created by surgery, neither can the uterus. I find the idea that surgery can make a man a woman or a woman a man, offensive.
There will be some who disagree but all are allowed an opinion.
Let me see if I can help.
Can we first agree that the purely mechanical makeup of a human being does not absolutely guarantee their gender. Women can be born with XY chromosomes, and men can be born with XX chromosomes.Similarly sex organs are not guaranteed - men and women may be born with some, or none of the "required" parts.
Now granted... these cases are rare. However it does beg the question.
Are they any less of a man or woman, if they have an odd chromosomal makeup, or some of their bits are missing?
If we can agree the answer is no - as I am sure any reasonable person would, then that would imply that the condition of man/womanhood is not determined by anatomy.
From that point on you can simply apply the duck test.
"When I see a bird that walks like a duck and swims like a duck and quacks like a duck, I call that bird a duck."
So a guy on here says he's got a 12" cock but you meet him and you measure it at 1"
When asked about the sex by your mates and they ask about his cock do you tell them it was 1" or what he says and it was 12"
Comparing a complex aspect of a person like gender to something you can determine with a ruler really just shows you haven't got a clue what you're talking about on this subject. "
That view point is totally fine though a little tragic and maybe insensitive to someone identifying as having something that isn't instantly identifiable to others .
  |
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"I place this here because it is political.
I read an article about women and breast cancer but also to all genders. Hmm, I thought genders were binary but it seems there are as many as 72. It’s not about anatomy, it’s about perception, I read. Ok.
What I can’t revise my thinking on is the term ‘owners of a vagina’ in articles. I’d support to my dying breath the individual’s right to be supported in choice but I cannot accept that someone with a vagina is anything other than a woman. Vaginas can’t be created by surgery, neither can the uterus. I find the idea that surgery can make a man a woman or a woman a man, offensive.
There will be some who disagree but all are allowed an opinion.
Let me see if I can help.
Can we first agree that the purely mechanical makeup of a human being does not absolutely guarantee their gender. Women can be born with XY chromosomes, and men can be born with XX chromosomes.Similarly sex organs are not guaranteed - men and women may be born with some, or none of the "required" parts.
Now granted... these cases are rare. However it does beg the question.
Are they any less of a man or woman, if they have an odd chromosomal makeup, or some of their bits are missing?
If we can agree the answer is no - as I am sure any reasonable person would, then that would imply that the condition of man/womanhood is not determined by anatomy.
From that point on you can simply apply the duck test.
"When I see a bird that walks like a duck and swims like a duck and quacks like a duck, I call that bird a duck."
So a guy on here says he's got a 12" cock but you meet him and you measure it at 1"
When asked about the sex by your mates and they ask about his cock do you tell them it was 1" or what he says and it was 12""
I think every man on the planet identifies as having a 12" cock - even the transmen |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"Hmmmmm.so you have created this post just to tell everyone that you find the idea of anyone assuming a gender identity different from their birth gender offensive....yes?
Sorry...you find the idea of SURGERY in these cases offensive?"
I accept your apology.
I clearly say I find it degrading as a woman to be categorised in a group of ‘people with vaginas/uterii.’
Being a woman (or a man) is about so much more than identifying as such - brain function, perceptions, shape, muscle fibres, bone mass are all different, subtly so in some cases. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I place this here because it is political.
I read an article about women and breast cancer but also to all genders. Hmm, I thought genders were binary but it seems there are as many as 72. It’s not about anatomy, it’s about perception, I read. Ok.
What I can’t revise my thinking on is the term ‘owners of a vagina’ in articles. I’d support to my dying breath the individual’s right to be supported in choice but I cannot accept that someone with a vagina is anything other than a woman. Vaginas can’t be created by surgery, neither can the uterus. I find the idea that surgery can make a man a woman or a woman a man, offensive.
There will be some who disagree but all are allowed an opinion.
I saw a clip from that guy Milos Fillipooseyolussss "might have spelt it a little wrong"....
anyway it's was like some Uni lecture / debate about gender association / how people define themselves and someone "male dressed as female I think" in the audience stood up saying if they identify as a girl then he/she IS a girl.
So Milos asked how old they were, they answered 22 or whatever, so Milos said why aren't you 60, not 22, why aren't you 60 and they were stumped and the only answer they had was because I'm not.
Not agreeing or disagreeing but I thought good argument "
Tbf i dont mind Milo so much but he is just a troll/provocateur. His example there really isn't that good, no one is killing themselve because they think they a 60 are they |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Hmmmmm.so you have created this post just to tell everyone that you find the idea of anyone assuming a gender identity different from their birth gender offensive....yes?
Sorry...you find the idea of SURGERY in these cases offensive?
I accept your apology.
I clearly say I find it degrading as a woman to be categorised in a group of ‘people with vaginas/uterii.’
Being a woman (or a man) is about so much more than identifying as such - brain function, perceptions, shape, muscle fibres, bone mass are all different, subtly so in some cases. "
I kinda come down the middle with sort of thing and can definelty see your point. I dont see mysellf as a woman and no matter the amount of surgery will solve that
I think alot of problem is the more outspoken and extreme people in 'my' community are the ones being listened to while most of us just want to be accepeted as we are and not ridiculed or laughed at in the street. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I place this here because it is political.
I read an article about women and breast cancer but also to all genders. Hmm, I thought genders were binary but it seems there are as many as 72. It’s not about anatomy, it’s about perception, I read. Ok.
What I can’t revise my thinking on is the term ‘owners of a vagina’ in articles. I’d support to my dying breath the individual’s right to be supported in choice but I cannot accept that someone with a vagina is anything other than a woman. Vaginas can’t be created by surgery, neither can the uterus. I find the idea that surgery can make a man a woman or a woman a man, offensive.
There will be some who disagree but all are allowed an opinion.
I saw a clip from that guy Milos Fillipooseyolussss "might have spelt it a little wrong"....
anyway it's was like some Uni lecture / debate about gender association / how people define themselves and someone "male dressed as female I think" in the audience stood up saying if they identify as a girl then he/she IS a girl.
So Milos asked how old they were, they answered 22 or whatever, so Milos said why aren't you 60, not 22, why aren't you 60 and they were stumped and the only answer they had was because I'm not.
Not agreeing or disagreeing but I thought good argument
It's not a good argument whatsoever, because "age dysphoria" is not a thing that happens to people.
Gender dysphoria is.
Too many people spout off about this issue without having done any basic reading on what trans people experience - or on the medical science on the subject.
Transitioning is medically recognised as the best method for people to deal with (and survive) dysphoria. "
Have you googled "age dysphoria"?
Gender dysphoria was never a thing until it became one, now it looks like age dysphoria is becoming one. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Hmmmmm.so you have created this post just to tell everyone that you find the idea of anyone assuming a gender identity different from their birth gender offensive....yes?
Sorry...you find the idea of SURGERY in these cases offensive?
I accept your apology.
I clearly say I find it degrading as a woman to be categorised in a group of ‘people with vaginas/uterii.’
Being a woman (or a man) is about so much more than identifying as such - brain function, perceptions, shape, muscle fibres, bone mass are all different, subtly so in some cases.
I kinda come down the middle with sort of thing and can definelty see your point. I dont see mysellf as a woman and no matter the amount of surgery will solve that
I think alot of problem is the more outspoken and extreme people in 'my' community are the ones being listened to while most of us just want to be accepeted as we are and not ridiculed or laughed at in the street. "
What do you consider to be the acceptable terminology for you? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I place this here because it is political.
I read an article about women and breast cancer but also to all genders. Hmm, I thought genders were binary but it seems there are as many as 72. It’s not about anatomy, it’s about perception, I read. Ok.
What I can’t revise my thinking on is the term ‘owners of a vagina’ in articles. I’d support to my dying breath the individual’s right to be supported in choice but I cannot accept that someone with a vagina is anything other than a woman. Vaginas can’t be created by surgery, neither can the uterus. I find the idea that surgery can make a man a woman or a woman a man, offensive.
There will be some who disagree but all are allowed an opinion.
I saw a clip from that guy Milos Fillipooseyolussss "might have spelt it a little wrong"....
anyway it's was like some Uni lecture / debate about gender association / how people define themselves and someone "male dressed as female I think" in the audience stood up saying if they identify as a girl then he/she IS a girl.
So Milos asked how old they were, they answered 22 or whatever, so Milos said why aren't you 60, not 22, why aren't you 60 and they were stumped and the only answer they had was because I'm not.
Not agreeing or disagreeing but I thought good argument
It's not a good argument whatsoever, because "age dysphoria" is not a thing that happens to people.
Gender dysphoria is.
Too many people spout off about this issue without having done any basic reading on what trans people experience - or on the medical science on the subject.
Transitioning is medically recognised as the best method for people to deal with (and survive) dysphoria.
Have you googled "age dysphoria"?
Gender dysphoria was never a thing until it became one, now it looks like age dysphoria is becoming one."
Just because it was never a 'thing' till it became one is such a ridiculous thing to say. That's like saying Gravity as a force never existed before Newton |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I place this here because it is political.
I read an article about women and breast cancer but also to all genders. Hmm, I thought genders were binary but it seems there are as many as 72. It’s not about anatomy, it’s about perception, I read. Ok.
What I can’t revise my thinking on is the term ‘owners of a vagina’ in articles. I’d support to my dying breath the individual’s right to be supported in choice but I cannot accept that someone with a vagina is anything other than a woman. Vaginas can’t be created by surgery, neither can the uterus. I find the idea that surgery can make a man a woman or a woman a man, offensive.
There will be some who disagree but all are allowed an opinion.
I saw a clip from that guy Milos Fillipooseyolussss "might have spelt it a little wrong"....
anyway it's was like some Uni lecture / debate about gender association / how people define themselves and someone "male dressed as female I think" in the audience stood up saying if they identify as a girl then he/she IS a girl.
So Milos asked how old they were, they answered 22 or whatever, so Milos said why aren't you 60, not 22, why aren't you 60 and they were stumped and the only answer they had was because I'm not.
Not agreeing or disagreeing but I thought good argument
It's not a good argument whatsoever, because "age dysphoria" is not a thing that happens to people.
Gender dysphoria is.
Too many people spout off about this issue without having done any basic reading on what trans people experience - or on the medical science on the subject.
Transitioning is medically recognised as the best method for people to deal with (and survive) dysphoria.
Have you googled "age dysphoria"?
Gender dysphoria was never a thing until it became one, now it looks like age dysphoria is becoming one.
Just because it was never a 'thing' till it became one is such a ridiculous thing to say. That's like saying Gravity as a force never existed before Newton"
A specific terminology assigned to a particular condition then. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Hmmmmm.so you have created this post just to tell everyone that you find the idea of anyone assuming a gender identity different from their birth gender offensive....yes?
Sorry...you find the idea of SURGERY in these cases offensive?
I accept your apology.
I clearly say I find it degrading as a woman to be categorised in a group of ‘people with vaginas/uterii.’
Being a woman (or a man) is about so much more than identifying as such - brain function, perceptions, shape, muscle fibres, bone mass are all different, subtly so in some cases.
I kinda come down the middle with sort of thing and can definelty see your point. I dont see mysellf as a woman and no matter the amount of surgery will solve that
I think alot of problem is the more outspoken and extreme people in 'my' community are the ones being listened to while most of us just want to be accepeted as we are and not ridiculed or laughed at in the street.
What do you consider to be the acceptable terminology for you?"
well she obviously if I am out and presenting (to the best of my ability) as Female/Trans. Doesn't mean i think i am the same genetic woman though |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I place this here because it is political.
I read an article about women and breast cancer but also to all genders. Hmm, I thought genders were binary but it seems there are as many as 72. It’s not about anatomy, it’s about perception, I read. Ok.
What I can’t revise my thinking on is the term ‘owners of a vagina’ in articles. I’d support to my dying breath the individual’s right to be supported in choice but I cannot accept that someone with a vagina is anything other than a woman. Vaginas can’t be created by surgery, neither can the uterus. I find the idea that surgery can make a man a woman or a woman a man, offensive.
There will be some who disagree but all are allowed an opinion.
Let me see if I can help.
Can we first agree that the purely mechanical makeup of a human being does not absolutely guarantee their gender. Women can be born with XY chromosomes, and men can be born with XX chromosomes.Similarly sex organs are not guaranteed - men and women may be born with some, or none of the "required" parts.
Now granted... these cases are rare. However it does beg the question.
Are they any less of a man or woman, if they have an odd chromosomal makeup, or some of their bits are missing?
If we can agree the answer is no - as I am sure any reasonable person would, then that would imply that the condition of man/womanhood is not determined by anatomy.
From that point on you can simply apply the duck test.
"When I see a bird that walks like a duck and swims like a duck and quacks like a duck, I call that bird a duck."
So a guy on here says he's got a 12" cock but you meet him and you measure it at 1"
When asked about the sex by your mates and they ask about his cock do you tell them it was 1" or what he says and it was 12"
I think every man on the planet identifies as having a 12" cock - even the transmen "
Ha, you're most probably right on that score |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I place this here because it is political.
I read an article about women and breast cancer but also to all genders. Hmm, I thought genders were binary but it seems there are as many as 72. It’s not about anatomy, it’s about perception, I read. Ok.
What I can’t revise my thinking on is the term ‘owners of a vagina’ in articles. I’d support to my dying breath the individual’s right to be supported in choice but I cannot accept that someone with a vagina is anything other than a woman. Vaginas can’t be created by surgery, neither can the uterus. I find the idea that surgery can make a man a woman or a woman a man, offensive.
There will be some who disagree but all are allowed an opinion.
I saw a clip from that guy Milos Fillipooseyolussss "might have spelt it a little wrong"....
anyway it's was like some Uni lecture / debate about gender association / how people define themselves and someone "male dressed as female I think" in the audience stood up saying if they identify as a girl then he/she IS a girl.
So Milos asked how old they were, they answered 22 or whatever, so Milos said why aren't you 60, not 22, why aren't you 60 and they were stumped and the only answer they had was because I'm not.
Not agreeing or disagreeing but I thought good argument
It's not a good argument whatsoever, because "age dysphoria" is not a thing that happens to people.
Gender dysphoria is.
Too many people spout off about this issue without having done any basic reading on what trans people experience - or on the medical science on the subject.
Transitioning is medically recognised as the best method for people to deal with (and survive) dysphoria.
Have you googled "age dysphoria"?
Gender dysphoria was never a thing until it became one, now it looks like age dysphoria is becoming one."
Nothing is a "thing" until it becomes one |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I place this here because it is political.
I read an article about women and breast cancer but also to all genders. Hmm, I thought genders were binary but it seems there are as many as 72. It’s not about anatomy, it’s about perception, I read. Ok.
What I can’t revise my thinking on is the term ‘owners of a vagina’ in articles. I’d support to my dying breath the individual’s right to be supported in choice but I cannot accept that someone with a vagina is anything other than a woman. Vaginas can’t be created by surgery, neither can the uterus. I find the idea that surgery can make a man a woman or a woman a man, offensive.
There will be some who disagree but all are allowed an opinion.
I saw a clip from that guy Milos Fillipooseyolussss "might have spelt it a little wrong"....
anyway it's was like some Uni lecture / debate about gender association / how people define themselves and someone "male dressed as female I think" in the audience stood up saying if they identify as a girl then he/she IS a girl.
So Milos asked how old they were, they answered 22 or whatever, so Milos said why aren't you 60, not 22, why aren't you 60 and they were stumped and the only answer they had was because I'm not.
Not agreeing or disagreeing but I thought good argument
It's not a good argument whatsoever, because "age dysphoria" is not a thing that happens to people.
Gender dysphoria is.
Too many people spout off about this issue without having done any basic reading on what trans people experience - or on the medical science on the subject.
Transitioning is medically recognised as the best method for people to deal with (and survive) dysphoria.
Have you googled "age dysphoria"?
Gender dysphoria was never a thing until it became one, now it looks like age dysphoria is becoming one.
Just because it was never a 'thing' till it became one is such a ridiculous thing to say. That's like saying Gravity as a force never existed before Newton"
Gender dysphoria probably only became a thing when it gained enough.... publicity / research / mental health issues or whatever and I don't see age dysphoria potentially being any different other than being further back the evolutionary Road. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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People are entitled to find happiness in life. And if a man wants to become a woman and vice versa, then why not? The brain is a complex thing and we are only really beginning to understand how it develops. Years ago people were described as mentally ill for homosexuality and imprisoned, whereas now it largely regarded as a normal variation and accepted by the majority of educated people. Let people be free to live in their chosen gender,with acceptance and love. |
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"
Have you googled "age dysphoria"?
Gender dysphoria was never a thing until it became one, now it looks like age dysphoria is becoming one."
I see whoever this was has left the site but - no, 'age dysphoria' is not becoming a thing.
And even if it were, that would just be one more thing we'd have to consider and learn about how humans perceive themselves and how that lets them fit into society.
It wouldn't invalidate trans people, which was what the Milo Yiannopoulus line/joke was trying to do.
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"People are entitled to find happiness in life. And if a man wants to become a woman and vice versa, then why not? The brain is a complex thing and we are only really beginning to understand how it develops. Years ago people were described as mentally ill for homosexuality and imprisoned, whereas now it largely regarded as a normal variation and accepted by the majority of educated people. Let people be free to live in their chosen gender,with acceptance and love. "
This sums up exactly what I’m uncomfortable with. It’s not at all about intolerance, or freedom of speech, it’s about the feeling of the term ‘woman’ being invaded and denigrated by the concept that it’s a choice of a man.
A lot of men have answered here and I’d ask them to see how they felt if reading an article where instead of ‘man’ there was ‘person with a penis’. It’s a hard concept to put across.
In the media, where this is found, it also circumvents the evolution of thought that there are multiple identities and so is avoiding facing it. It would be much healthier all round if humans would accept each other’s realities and be comfortable with them |
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" I find the idea that surgery can make a man a woman or a woman a man, offensive.
So? There are people who find homosexuality offensive, it doesn't mean anything.
Maybe read up on the differences between sex and gender.
But ultimately, trans people are some of the most vulnerable and discriminated against in society.
If you want to be an empathetic and caring human, people should try focusing on that and not endless nitpicking about definitions. "
This man needs an award. Well said |
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My opinions on gender and artificially changing sex are overridden by my desire to not hurt peoples feelings. It’s not for me to say that you are or are not that person that you want to be.
If you are happy and do no harm to others in the pursuit of that happiness then I’m happy for you. |
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"I place this here because it is political.
I read an article about women and breast cancer but also to all genders. Hmm, I thought genders were binary but it seems there are as many as 72. It’s not about anatomy, it’s about perception, I read. Ok.
What I can’t revise my thinking on is the term ‘owners of a vagina’ in articles. I’d support to my dying breath the individual’s right to be supported in choice but I cannot accept that someone with a vagina is anything other than a woman. Vaginas can’t be created by surgery, neither can the uterus. I find the idea that surgery can make a man a woman or a woman a man, offensive.
There will be some who disagree but all are allowed an opinion."
Most often phrases such as "owners of a vagina" or "people who menstruate" are not used to include trans women, but to avoid excluding trans men. And generally only used in some kind of context about access to medical services or use of hygiene products.
The media hysteria surrounding these phrases is purely whipped up by transphobic pressure groups and used as a stick to beat trans women. If it wasn't for the action of these transphobic groups in hardening attitudes and generating fear, then there would be no need for the use of such phrases. Most trans women and trans men just want to get on with their lives and attract as little attention as possible, and the vocal minority have only been forced into that way because of fear and anger and sheer exhaustion from having to fight against hate driven people that quite frankly want us to be dead. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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I have no wish to offend anybody and the focus is not to make a point about transgenders- I tried, clumsily, to say both those attitudes in the o.p. It is about journalists, usually male, using terms that are inappropriate towards or regarding, women. |
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