FabSwingers.com > Forums > Politics > An EU superstate.
An EU superstate.
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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The fear on an EU superstate, or a federal states of Europe is often cited by leavers as something moderately high up on the list of reasons why they voted to leave. Often linking into the concept of decision making and accountability when people are pressed to explain their concerns in more detail.
I don't actually support the idea.
But I would like to know why leave voters appear scared of this. I have reservations, however given the instability of America and American foreign policy, and given China's neo-colonialism - don't you think it's useful to be seated alongside other developed nations incase there are complications within NATO.
Can any leavers just explain why the concept of further Union scared them? To those who voted remain, lets keep it civil and not berate others. |
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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago
upton wirral |
"The fear on an EU superstate, or a federal states of Europe is often cited by leavers as something moderately high up on the list of reasons why they voted to leave. Often linking into the concept of decision making and accountability when people are pressed to explain their concerns in more detail.
I don't actually support the idea.
But I would like to know why leave voters appear scared of this. I have reservations, however given the instability of America and American foreign policy, and given China's neo-colonialism - don't you think it's useful to be seated alongside other developed nations incase there are complications within NATO.
Can any leavers just explain why the concept of further Union scared them? To those who voted remain, lets keep it civil and not berate others."
I am oposed to a Euro state as there are to many differences between the people for it to work and the Germans and French would want to control this causing friction.
The EU does not work now as to many national interest involved.
When we live there will be pproblems but as the EU falls apart all will be glad we are out of it.Free trade yes everything else no no no
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I'm not a leaver, and no one aside from the Daily Mail is suggesting that an EU superstate is a real thing.
But, to answer this question, it would entirely depend on what powers this fictional super state would have.
Personally, I think having common goals, and being part of a trading block makes sense. And I think that regional governments should have more power. IE each region like Cornwall, South East, London, Midlands etc should have more responsibility over things, say taxation on 2nd homes for example. A big issue in Cornwall, not so much in Bolton. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Interesting thought. Americans are extremely good at projecting an image of a unified country mainly via Hollywood and the TV networks but dig a little deeper or better still go visit different parts of the USA and you’ll find that they do have their own cultural differences so arguing that we could never get along with the french or germans is a bit like saying that pennsylvanians cant get along with new yorkers or louisianans. To a certain extent they rub each other up the wrong way but they get along as a country, so why couldnt the EU do the same? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I'm not a leaver, and no one aside from the Daily Mail is suggesting that an EU superstate is a real thing.
But, to answer this question, it would entirely depend on what powers this fictional super state would have.
Personally, I think having common goals, and being part of a trading block makes sense. And I think that regional governments should have more power. IE each region like Cornwall, South East, London, Midlands etc should have more responsibility over things, say taxation on 2nd homes for example. A big issue in Cornwall, not so much in Bolton."
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"Why would you want an eu superstate? too many different ways of life and cultures for it to ever work."
There are different cultures and way of life in this country.
A farmer in wales and in France probally have more in common than say a stockbroker in London. |
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By *obka3Couple
over a year ago
bournemouth |
For those who dont think the united states of Europe is the aim just spend some time googling it, you will see plenty of those in positions of power that want it. I'm totally against the idea because of Europes history, we are far too diverse for it to work just look at the financial divisions between the north and south, I find very amusing that some suggest a superstate and then suggest regional assemblies, just how many layers of Government do they want, however IF every country has a vote on it and the majority vote for it then that's fair enough go for it. We were given a vote and decided to leave so that's what we must do, and everyone needs to get on board not moan about it. |
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There is also a huge contradiction here aswell.
Brexiteers always argue that the eu will fall apart when we leave.
Yet we are leaving because we are always being told what to do.
If we are so influential, why are we being told what to do?
Therefore if we had,have stayed in,if this superstate did happen, presumably we would play a major role? |
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By *obka3Couple
over a year ago
bournemouth |
"There is also a huge contradiction here aswell.
Brexiteers always argue that the eu will fall apart when we leave.
Yet we are leaving because we are always being told what to do.
If we are so influential, why are we being told what to do?
Therefore if we had,have stayed in,if this superstate did happen, presumably we would play a major role?"
A TINY minority want the EU to collapse most certainly dont.
We were promised a vote on maastricht it never happened, we were given the chance to have a say and voted out,
Also comparing europe to the USA is totally daft |
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"There is also a huge contradiction here aswell.
Brexiteers always argue that the eu will fall apart when we leave.
Yet we are leaving because we are always being told what to do.
If we are so influential, why are we being told what to do?
Therefore if we had,have stayed in,if this superstate did happen, presumably we would play a major role?"
No they dont maybe one or two posters on here do but im sure the majority of brexiteers dont say the eu will fail or even want it to fail now we have left.You seem to base your whole arguments on what a couple of people on fab say. |
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"There is also a huge contradiction here aswell.
Brexiteers always argue that the eu will fall apart when we leave.
Yet we are leaving because we are always being told what to do.
If we are so influential, why are we being told what to do?
Therefore if we had,have stayed in,if this superstate did happen, presumably we would play a major role?No they dont maybe one or two posters on here do but im sure the majority of brexiteers dont say the eu will fail or even want it to fail now we have left.You seem to base your whole arguments on what a couple of people on fab say."
Loads of here have said the eu will fall apart.
Even over the last few days. |
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"There is also a huge contradiction here aswell.
Brexiteers always argue that the eu will fall apart when we leave.
Yet we are leaving because we are always being told what to do.
If we are so influential, why are we being told what to do?
Therefore if we had,have stayed in,if this superstate did happen, presumably we would play a major role?No they dont maybe one or two posters on here do but im sure the majority of brexiteers dont say the eu will fail or even want it to fail now we have left.You seem to base your whole arguments on what a couple of people on fab say.
Loads of here have said the eu will fall apart.
Even over the last few days."
Who said they need us more than we need them?
Gove? |
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"There is also a huge contradiction here aswell.
Brexiteers always argue that the eu will fall apart when we leave.
Yet we are leaving because we are always being told what to do.
If we are so influential, why are we being told what to do?
Therefore if we had,have stayed in,if this superstate did happen, presumably we would play a major role?No they dont maybe one or two posters on here do but im sure the majority of brexiteers dont say the eu will fail or even want it to fail now we have left.You seem to base your whole arguments on what a couple of people on fab say.
Loads of here have said the eu will fall apart.
Even over the last few days."
loads?? to quote you "source" there are only a few of us on here who defend leaving.  |
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"There is also a huge contradiction here aswell.
Brexiteers always argue that the eu will fall apart when we leave.
Yet we are leaving because we are always being told what to do.
If we are so influential, why are we being told what to do?
Therefore if we had,have stayed in,if this superstate did happen, presumably we would play a major role?No they dont maybe one or two posters on here do but im sure the majority of brexiteers dont say the eu will fail or even want it to fail now we have left.You seem to base your whole arguments on what a couple of people on fab say.
Loads of here have said the eu will fall apart.
Even over the last few days.
Who said they need us more than we need them?
Gove?"
does that say they will fail or that he even wants them to fail? |
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"There is also a huge contradiction here aswell.
Brexiteers always argue that the eu will fall apart when we leave.
Yet we are leaving because we are always being told what to do.
If we are so influential, why are we being told what to do?
Therefore if we had,have stayed in,if this superstate did happen, presumably we would play a major role?No they dont maybe one or two posters on here do but im sure the majority of brexiteers dont say the eu will fail or even want it to fail now we have left.You seem to base your whole arguments on what a couple of people on fab say.
Loads of here have said the eu will fall apart.
Even over the last few days.
Who said they need us more than we need them?
Gove?does that say they will fail or that he even wants them to fail?"
Is there a difference? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"There is also a huge contradiction here aswell.
Brexiteers always argue that the eu will fall apart when we leave.
Yet we are leaving because we are always being told what to do.
If we are so influential, why are we being told what to do?
Therefore if we had,have stayed in,if this superstate did happen, presumably we would play a major role?"
You are getting that mixed up there lionel. The eu isnt failing because we are leaving, they are failing because its an unrealistic proposition to keep all member states in agreement and toeing the line. Their protectionist regime is far too insular and restrictive and their power hungry stance and vision for a superstate is taking away individual countries power and identity. The EU's ever increasing struggle to find one size fits all soloutions makes them inefficient and is causing increasing resentment.
The situation between france and germany with regards fisheries and car manufacturers is a perfect example. France are not going to get what they want from Brexit which will cause a no deal outcome and further fractions amongst themselves. Car manufacturers will lose out, the French fishermen will feel hard done by, in the end they both lose out. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"have a read of this !st step to eu superstate. https://www.cityam.com/congratulations-brussels-for-capturing-eu-states-financial-sovereignty/
"
I'm not interested tbh, because we're out and there is absolutely no point in going on and on about it whether you voted leave or remain. What the EU does now is entirely up to them and we no longer have any say in the matter. We've got our sovereignty back  so all you leavers should be over the moon. You won, get over it. Now we have to live with the consequences.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"There is also a huge contradiction here aswell.
Brexiteers always argue that the eu will fall apart when we leave.
Yet we are leaving because we are always being told what to do.
If we are so influential, why are we being told what to do?
Therefore if we had,have stayed in,if this superstate did happen, presumably we would play a major role?No they dont maybe one or two posters on here do but im sure the majority of brexiteers dont say the eu will fail or even want it to fail now we have left.You seem to base your whole arguments on what a couple of people on fab say.
Loads of here have said the eu will fall apart.
Even over the last few days."
I havent read every post over the last few days however the only posts relating to the eu failing in the last few days are you saying that people keep saying the eu is failing.
Earlier in the week I did comment that the eu will fail but this is not me willing it to fail as you like to make out. |
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"have a read of this !st step to eu superstate. https://www.cityam.com/congratulations-brussels-for-capturing-eu-states-financial-sovereignty/
I'm not interested tbh, because we're out and there is absolutely no point in going on and on about it whether you voted leave or remain. What the EU does now is entirely up to them and we no longer have any say in the matter. We've got our sovereignty back so all you leavers should be over the moon. You won, get over it. Now we have to live with the consequences.
"
that is very true but some just cant .  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"There is also a huge contradiction here aswell.
Brexiteers always argue that the eu will fall apart when we leave.
Yet we are leaving because we are always being told what to do.
If we are so influential, why are we being told what to do?
Therefore if we had,have stayed in,if this superstate did happen, presumably we would play a major role?No they dont maybe one or two posters on here do but im sure the majority of brexiteers dont say the eu will fail or even want it to fail now we have left.You seem to base your whole arguments on what a couple of people on fab say.
Loads of here have said the eu will fall apart.
Even over the last few days.
Who said they need us more than we need them?
Gove?does that say they will fail or that he even wants them to fail?
Is there a difference?"
A big difference, shame you cant see it. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"have a read of this !st step to eu superstate. https://www.cityam.com/congratulations-brussels-for-capturing-eu-states-financial-sovereignty/
"
City AM and it's editor Christian May are hardly an impartial or accurate source of information on the subject. Especially given their track record, and mission statement as an anti-EU publication.
|
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For all of the British nationalists who are predicting with glee that the EU will fall apart when they finally leave, I am afraid it is your own "precious union", which will fall apart long before the demise of the EU |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"have a read of this !st step to eu superstate. https://www.cityam.com/congratulations-brussels-for-capturing-eu-states-financial-sovereignty/
I'm not interested tbh, because we're out and there is absolutely no point in going on and on about it whether you voted leave or remain. What the EU does now is entirely up to them and we no longer have any say in the matter. We've got our sovereignty back so all you leavers should be over the moon. You won, get over it. Now we have to live with the consequences.
"
Why are you here, going on and on about it then? Its ironic that brexiters are accused of not knowing the facts and then when they do present facts remainers don't want to know.
Hilarious |
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By *riginalMan
over a year ago
London (SW) |
Well the EU seems to have come together and is more robust than ever. Even Angela Merkel taking in 1m refugees appears to have paid off... the right wing is in massive decline in Germany and the refugees appear to have been absorbed into the work force etc.
I agree that however unfortunate, the Brits have to live with the consequences of Brexit. For the last year or so there is 60:40 balance in opinion polls saying Brexit was a mistake. So it will be a real challenge to live with this contradiction - especially when we see the economic and other consequences - we likely will go even further towards regret even as we all try to just suck it up and find ways to cope. Our so-called sovereignty has not really been repatriated... for example trade tariffs will be set by the WTO (well we can make a sovereign decision not to trade, which we will in certain areas because we won't be competitive so will have to just wind down those sectors). So WTO will be the new enemy... and so on whenever there's a body trying to coordinate different countries.
For now we ought to be more worried by the fact that there has been a massive clear out within government and the civil service in order to ensure posts are filled with ardent Brexiters regardless of ability. They are now running the country and I don't think anyone really believes we have the top talent in charge!!! So one positive might be that once we are past January we can try to build back up the best qualified people to help everyone in the UK. We just need to be careful the current government doesn't undo the democratic mechanisms to make this possible - right now the likes of Cummings would rather lead a dictatorship it seems. |
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"There is also a huge contradiction here aswell.
Brexiteers always argue that the eu will fall apart when we leave.
Yet we are leaving because we are always being told what to do.
If we are so influential, why are we being told what to do?
Therefore if we had,have stayed in,if this superstate did happen, presumably we would play a major role?No they dont maybe one or two posters on here do but im sure the majority of brexiteers dont say the eu will fail or even want it to fail now we have left.You seem to base your whole arguments on what a couple of people on fab say.
Loads of here have said the eu will fall apart.
Even over the last few days.
I havent read every post over the last few days however the only posts relating to the eu failing in the last few days are you saying that people keep saying the eu is failing.
Earlier in the week I did comment that the eu will fail but this is not me willing it to fail as you like to make out. "
Back to making fairytales up again I see |
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"For all of the British nationalists who are predicting with glee that the EU will fall apart when they finally leave, I am afraid it is your own "precious union", which will fall apart long before the demise of the EU "
No one has said it apparently |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"There is also a huge contradiction here aswell.
Brexiteers always argue that the eu will fall apart when we leave.
Yet we are leaving because we are always being told what to do.
If we are so influential, why are we being told what to do?
Therefore if we had,have stayed in,if this superstate did happen, presumably we would play a major role?No they dont maybe one or two posters on here do but im sure the majority of brexiteers dont say the eu will fail or even want it to fail now we have left.You seem to base your whole arguments on what a couple of people on fab say.
Loads of here have said the eu will fall apart.
Even over the last few days.
I havent read every post over the last few days however the only posts relating to the eu failing in the last few days are you saying that people keep saying the eu is failing.
Earlier in the week I did comment that the eu will fail but this is not me willing it to fail as you like to make out.
Back to making fairytales up again I see"
Not at all. People can read for themselves to see i am telling the truth. There are only a couple of us that bother to speak up against the EU on here and i dont think there are any that want the eu to fail and nobody is filled with glee like your man above is trying to say.
You are just gaslighting and straw manning. Standard fare really as proven by you trying to imply im "back to making things up". |
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"There is also a huge contradiction here aswell.
Brexiteers always argue that the eu will fall apart when we leave.
Yet we are leaving because we are always being told what to do.
If we are so influential, why are we being told what to do?
Therefore if we had,have stayed in,if this superstate did happen, presumably we would play a major role?No they dont maybe one or two posters on here do but im sure the majority of brexiteers dont say the eu will fail or even want it to fail now we have left.You seem to base your whole arguments on what a couple of people on fab say.
Loads of here have said the eu will fall apart.
Even over the last few days.
I havent read every post over the last few days however the only posts relating to the eu failing in the last few days are you saying that people keep saying the eu is failing.
Earlier in the week I did comment that the eu will fail but this is not me willing it to fail as you like to make out.
Back to making fairytales up again I see
Not at all. People can read for themselves to see i am telling the truth. There are only a couple of us that bother to speak up against the EU on here and i dont think there are any that want the eu to fail and nobody is filled with glee like your man above is trying to say.
You are just gaslighting and straw manning. Standard fare really as proven by you trying to imply im "back to making things up". "
Someone mentioned the other day about Macron wanting out
I'd go and find out but you will just deny saying it anyway. |
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"have a read of this !st step to eu superstate. https://www.cityam.com/congratulations-brussels-for-capturing-eu-states-financial-sovereignty/
City AM and it's editor Christian May are hardly an impartial or accurate source of information on the subject. Especially given their track record, and mission statement as an anti-EU publication.
"
maybe not, but still an interesting read there are always different sides to an opinion but not seen anything to contradict that one yet. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"There is also a huge contradiction here aswell.
Brexiteers always argue that the eu will fall apart when we leave.
Yet we are leaving because we are always being told what to do.
If we are so influential, why are we being told what to do?
Therefore if we had,have stayed in,if this superstate did happen, presumably we would play a major role?No they dont maybe one or two posters on here do but im sure the majority of brexiteers dont say the eu will fail or even want it to fail now we have left.You seem to base your whole arguments on what a couple of people on fab say.
Loads of here have said the eu will fall apart.
Even over the last few days.
I havent read every post over the last few days however the only posts relating to the eu failing in the last few days are you saying that people keep saying the eu is failing.
Earlier in the week I did comment that the eu will fail but this is not me willing it to fail as you like to make out.
Back to making fairytales up again I see
Not at all. People can read for themselves to see i am telling the truth. There are only a couple of us that bother to speak up against the EU on here and i dont think there are any that want the eu to fail and nobody is filled with glee like your man above is trying to say.
You are just gaslighting and straw manning. Standard fare really as proven by you trying to imply im "back to making things up".
Someone mentioned the other day about Macron wanting out
I'd go and find out but you will just deny saying it anyway."
More gaslighting...
Ive specifically said that i have talked about the eu failing, now you trying to make out i deny things.
And big wow! Someone said macron wants out. That doesnt equate to the "loads" of talk about it in the past few days that you are trying to claim, thats just more half truths and exaggeration. |
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"There is also a huge contradiction here aswell.
Brexiteers always argue that the eu will fall apart when we leave.
Yet we are leaving because we are always being told what to do.
If we are so influential, why are we being told what to do?
Therefore if we had,have stayed in,if this superstate did happen, presumably we would play a major role?No they dont maybe one or two posters on here do but im sure the majority of brexiteers dont say the eu will fail or even want it to fail now we have left.You seem to base your whole arguments on what a couple of people on fab say.
Loads of here have said the eu will fall apart.
Even over the last few days.
I havent read every post over the last few days however the only posts relating to the eu failing in the last few days are you saying that people keep saying the eu is failing.
Earlier in the week I did comment that the eu will fail but this is not me willing it to fail as you like to make out.
Back to making fairytales up again I see
Not at all. People can read for themselves to see i am telling the truth. There are only a couple of us that bother to speak up against the EU on here and i dont think there are any that want the eu to fail and nobody is filled with glee like your man above is trying to say.
You are just gaslighting and straw manning. Standard fare really as proven by you trying to imply im "back to making things up".
Someone mentioned the other day about Macron wanting out
I'd go and find out but you will just deny saying it anyway.
More gaslighting...
Ive specifically said that i have talked about the eu failing, now you trying to make out i deny things.
And big wow! Someone said macron wants out. That doesnt equate to the "loads" of talk about it in the past few days that you are trying to claim, thats just more half truths and exaggeration. "
Yep I'm out. |
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"There is also a huge contradiction here aswell.
Brexiteers always argue that the eu will fall apart when we leave.
Yet we are leaving because we are always being told what to do.
If we are so influential, why are we being told what to do?
Therefore if we had,have stayed in,if this superstate did happen, presumably we would play a major role?No they dont maybe one or two posters on here do but im sure the majority of brexiteers dont say the eu will fail or even want it to fail now we have left.You seem to base your whole arguments on what a couple of people on fab say.
Loads of here have said the eu will fall apart.
Even over the last few days.
I havent read every post over the last few days however the only posts relating to the eu failing in the last few days are you saying that people keep saying the eu is failing.
Earlier in the week I did comment that the eu will fail but this is not me willing it to fail as you like to make out.
Back to making fairytales up again I see
Not at all. People can read for themselves to see i am telling the truth. There are only a couple of us that bother to speak up against the EU on here and i dont think there are any that want the eu to fail and nobody is filled with glee like your man above is trying to say.
You are just gaslighting and straw manning. Standard fare really as proven by you trying to imply im "back to making things up".
Someone mentioned the other day about Macron wanting out
I'd go and find out but you will just deny saying it anyway.
More gaslighting...
Ive specifically said that i have talked about the eu failing, now you trying to make out i deny things.
And big wow! Someone said macron wants out. That doesnt equate to the "loads" of talk about it in the past few days that you are trying to claim, thats just more half truths and exaggeration. "
it does in Lionels head tho lol |
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"Why would you want an eu superstate? too many different ways of life and cultures for it to ever work.
And the uk doesn't have different ways of life and culture ?
One big happy family here"
we could be of ppl just calm down and stop looking back mate |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Well the EU seems to have come together and is more robust than ever. Even Angela Merkel taking in 1m refugees appears to have paid off... the right wing is in massive decline in Germany and the refugees appear to have been absorbed into the work force etc.
I agree that however unfortunate, the Brits have to live with the consequences of Brexit. For the last year or so there is 60:40 balance in opinion polls saying Brexit was a mistake. So it will be a real challenge to live with this contradiction - especially when we see the economic and other consequences - we likely will go even further towards regret even as we all try to just suck it up and find ways to cope. Our so-called sovereignty has not really been repatriated... for example trade tariffs will be set by the WTO (well we can make a sovereign decision not to trade, which we will in certain areas because we won't be competitive so will have to just wind down those sectors). So WTO will be the new enemy... and so on whenever there's a body trying to coordinate different countries.
For now we ought to be more worried by the fact that there has been a massive clear out within government and the civil service in order to ensure posts are filled with ardent Brexiters regardless of ability. They are now running the country and I don't think anyone really believes we have the top talent in charge!!! So one positive might be that once we are past January we can try to build back up the best qualified people to help everyone in the UK. We just need to be careful the current government doesn't undo the democratic mechanisms to make this possible - right now the likes of Cummings would rather lead a dictatorship it seems."
I agree with much of what you say especially in regards to the destruction of the civil service and their traditional tempering of the excesses of government. Seems to me that Cummings would like the post of lord chancellor so that he can reshape our democracy to suit the wealthy and powerful he pretends not to be part of. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"have a read of this !st step to eu superstate. https://www.cityam.com/congratulations-brussels-for-capturing-eu-states-financial-sovereignty/
I'm not interested tbh, because we're out and there is absolutely no point in going on and on about it whether you voted leave or remain. What the EU does now is entirely up to them and we no longer have any say in the matter. We've got our sovereignty back so all you leavers should be over the moon. You won, get over it. Now we have to live with the consequences.
Why are you here, going on and on about it then? Its ironic that brexiters are accused of not knowing the facts and then when they do present facts remainers don't want to know.
Hilarious "
Nothing hilarious about it at all. Tragic would be a more apt descriptor.
I'm here because it's an open forum and I can contribute to whichever thread I like, whenever I like. I commented because the never ending arguments about Brexit are now totally pointless and I simply wanted to point that out. Capiche?
Btw, whilst I'm here, I notice that you've once again promoted some rather dubious right wing 'information' in a post above, and it reminded me; how's that proof about Hunter Biden's laptop coming along? Lol.  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"have a read of this !st step to eu superstate. https://www.cityam.com/congratulations-brussels-for-capturing-eu-states-financial-sovereignty/
I'm not interested tbh, because we're out and there is absolutely no point in going on and on about it whether you voted leave or remain. What the EU does now is entirely up to them and we no longer have any say in the matter. We've got our sovereignty back so all you leavers should be over the moon. You won, get over it. Now we have to live with the consequences.
Why are you here, going on and on about it then? Its ironic that brexiters are accused of not knowing the facts and then when they do present facts remainers don't want to know.
Hilarious
Nothing hilarious about it at all. Tragic would be a more apt descriptor.
I'm here because it's an open forum and I can contribute to whichever thread I like, whenever I like. I commented because the never ending arguments about Brexit are now totally pointless and I simply wanted to point that out. Capiche?
Btw, whilst I'm here, I notice that you've once again promoted some rather dubious right wing 'information' in a post above, and it reminded me; how's that proof about Hunter Biden's laptop coming along? Lol. "
So you are using your right to contribute to the forum to tell people not to contribute to the forum.. righto
As for the laptop, its going great. Two of hunters business partners have gone on record confirming the email chain and turning over their proof which includes additional proof of the bidens wrong doings.
A little taster for you to say is partisan and not proof
https://youtu.be/SJs9P8xrLlU |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"have a read of this !st step to eu superstate. https://www.cityam.com/congratulations-brussels-for-capturing-eu-states-financial-sovereignty/
I'm not interested tbh, because we're out and there is absolutely no point in going on and on about it whether you voted leave or remain. What the EU does now is entirely up to them and we no longer have any say in the matter. We've got our sovereignty back so all you leavers should be over the moon. You won, get over it. Now we have to live with the consequences.
Why are you here, going on and on about it then? Its ironic that brexiters are accused of not knowing the facts and then when they do present facts remainers don't want to know.
Hilarious
Nothing hilarious about it at all. Tragic would be a more apt descriptor.
I'm here because it's an open forum and I can contribute to whichever thread I like, whenever I like. I commented because the never ending arguments about Brexit are now totally pointless and I simply wanted to point that out. Capiche?
Btw, whilst I'm here, I notice that you've once again promoted some rather dubious right wing 'information' in a post above, and it reminded me; how's that proof about Hunter Biden's laptop coming along? Lol.
So you are using your right to contribute to the forum to tell people not to contribute to the forum.. righto
As for the laptop, its going great. Two of hunters business partners have gone on record confirming the email chain and turning over their proof which includes additional proof of the bidens wrong doings.
A little taster for you to say is partisan and not proof
https://youtu.be/SJs9P8xrLlU"
Yep, that's exactly what I'm doing. 
YouTube, lol. Is that the best you can do? Deep down you know it fake news, but you just can't bring yourself to admit it.
It's pizza gate all over again, only this time the FBI wouldn't play along. Even Fox news wouldn't run with the story, and although some of Donny's sycophants on there tried to promote it, it's all just fizzled out to nothing.
Rudy's got more to worry about than Hunter Biden now though. Perverted old git.
Anyway, back to Brexit. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"have a read of this !st step to eu superstate. https://www.cityam.com/congratulations-brussels-for-capturing-eu-states-financial-sovereignty/
I'm not interested tbh, because we're out and there is absolutely no point in going on and on about it whether you voted leave or remain. What the EU does now is entirely up to them and we no longer have any say in the matter. We've got our sovereignty back so all you leavers should be over the moon. You won, get over it. Now we have to live with the consequences.
Why are you here, going on and on about it then? Its ironic that brexiters are accused of not knowing the facts and then when they do present facts remainers don't want to know.
Hilarious
Nothing hilarious about it at all. Tragic would be a more apt descriptor.
I'm here because it's an open forum and I can contribute to whichever thread I like, whenever I like. I commented because the never ending arguments about Brexit are now totally pointless and I simply wanted to point that out. Capiche?
Btw, whilst I'm here, I notice that you've once again promoted some rather dubious right wing 'information' in a post above, and it reminded me; how's that proof about Hunter Biden's laptop coming along? Lol.
So you are using your right to contribute to the forum to tell people not to contribute to the forum.. righto
As for the laptop, its going great. Two of hunters business partners have gone on record confirming the email chain and turning over their proof which includes additional proof of the bidens wrong doings.
A little taster for you to say is partisan and not proof
https://youtu.be/SJs9P8xrLlU
Yep, that's exactly what I'm doing.
YouTube, lol. Is that the best you can do? Deep down you know it fake news, but you just can't bring yourself to admit it.
It's pizza gate all over again, only this time the FBI wouldn't play along. Even Fox news wouldn't run with the story, and although some of Donny's sycophants on there tried to promote it, it's all just fizzled out to nothing.
Rudy's got more to worry about than Hunter Biden now though. Perverted old git.
Anyway, back to Brexit. "
Hunter bidens business partner giving a press conference backed up with evidence is fake news because you watched it on youtube?
Just shows how deluded you are.
Anyway, back to brexit. What is the dubious right wing information you claim i have posted? |
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By *obka3Couple
over a year ago
bournemouth |
"Why would you want an eu superstate? too many different ways of life and cultures for it to ever work.
And the uk doesn't have different ways of life and culture ?
"
Of course it does and that makes for diversity and variety including of course the dozens of different nationalities that live here, but a lot of that is the result of hundreds of years of being one country, over those years we have fought wars TOGETHER we have developed a national pride, a work ethic and a togetherness, a bit like a family, the odd argument but when the chips are down we pull together, mixing another 27 into that mix some of which we have a lot in common but many we have very little, I believe just cant nor wont work. Just look at Yugoslavia and the USSR held together for a few decades by the gun but given the chance went their own way, now in a hundred years or so that might change, one thing that would help would be a common language, try suggesting that to any of the 27 that they give theirs up to speak English or Spanish |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Why would you want an eu superstate? too many different ways of life and cultures for it to ever work.
And the uk doesn't have different ways of life and culture ?
Of course it does and that makes for diversity and variety including of course the dozens of different nationalities that live here, but a lot of that is the result of hundreds of years of being one country, over those years we have fought wars TOGETHER we have developed a national pride, a work ethic and a togetherness, a bit like a family, the odd argument but when the chips are down we pull together, mixing another 27 into that mix some of which we have a lot in common but many we have very little, I believe just cant nor wont work. Just look at Yugoslavia and the USSR held together for a few decades by the gun but given the chance went their own way, now in a hundred years or so that might change, one thing that would help would be a common language, try suggesting that to any of the 27 that they give theirs up to speak English or Spanish"
They spend half the time complaining about how divisive our gov is and the other half claiming the 27 eu govs (plus the eu parliment) are in perfect harmony. Not a brain cell between them |
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"Why would you want an eu superstate? too many different ways of life and cultures for it to ever work.
And the uk doesn't have different ways of life and culture ?
Of course it does and that makes for diversity and variety including of course the dozens of different nationalities that live here, but a lot of that is the result of hundreds of years of being one country, over those years we have fought wars TOGETHER we have developed a national pride, a work ethic and a togetherness, a bit like a family, the odd argument but when the chips are down we pull together, mixing another 27 into that mix some of which we have a lot in common but many we have very little, I believe just cant nor wont work. Just look at Yugoslavia and the USSR held together for a few decades by the gun but given the chance went their own way, now in a hundred years or so that might change, one thing that would help would be a common language, try suggesting that to any of the 27 that they give theirs up to speak English or Spanish"
I serously wouldnt know where to start with that.
We have also fought wars against each other.. ireland being the obvious example.
Said in another thread..if you go to places in the north and places on the south ,you would think you would think it was a different country.
What is so different between an Englishman and a German?
You start off by saying we welcome all nationalities.. but then say we have nothing in common with them?
|
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"have a read of this !st step to eu superstate. https://www.cityam.com/congratulations-brussels-for-capturing-eu-states-financial-sovereignty/
I'm not interested tbh, because we're out and there is absolutely no point in going on and on about it whether you voted leave or remain. What the EU does now is entirely up to them and we no longer have any say in the matter. We've got our sovereignty back so all you leavers should be over the moon. You won, get over it. Now we have to live with the consequences.
Why are you here, going on and on about it then? Its ironic that brexiters are accused of not knowing the facts and then when they do present facts remainers don't want to know.
Hilarious
Nothing hilarious about it at all. Tragic would be a more apt descriptor.
I'm here because it's an open forum and I can contribute to whichever thread I like, whenever I like. I commented because the never ending arguments about Brexit are now totally pointless and I simply wanted to point that out. Capiche?
Btw, whilst I'm here, I notice that you've once again promoted some rather dubious right wing 'information' in a post above, and it reminded me; how's that proof about Hunter Biden's laptop coming along? Lol.
So you are using your right to contribute to the forum to tell people not to contribute to the forum.. righto
As for the laptop, its going great. Two of hunters business partners have gone on record confirming the email chain and turning over their proof which includes additional proof of the bidens wrong doings.
A little taster for you to say is partisan and not proof
https://youtu.be/SJs9P8xrLlU
Yep, that's exactly what I'm doing.
YouTube, lol. Is that the best you can do? Deep down you know it fake news, but you just can't bring yourself to admit it.
It's pizza gate all over again, only this time the FBI wouldn't play along. Even Fox news wouldn't run with the story, and although some of Donny's sycophants on there tried to promote it, it's all just fizzled out to nothing.
Rudy's got more to worry about than Hunter Biden now though. Perverted old git.
Anyway, back to Brexit.
Hunter bidens business partner giving a press conference backed up with evidence is fake news because you watched it on youtube?
Just shows how deluded you are.
Anyway, back to brexit. What is the dubious right wing information you claim i have posted?"
I don't use YouTube to get my information, I leave that to you.
If anyone other than you believed Hunter's former business partner, then the story would have legs. The fact that it doesn't tells you all you need to know. Unless you're suggesting it's a conspiracy by the MSM and the Bidens to keep it quiet?
Christian May, the editor of City AM voted for Brexit. He's hardly the EUs biggest fan.
Well, it's been fun. but I have more interesting things to do now, so I'll bid you adiEU until next time. |
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"Why would you want an eu superstate? too many different ways of life and cultures for it to ever work.
And the uk doesn't have different ways of life and culture ?
Of course it does and that makes for diversity and variety including of course the dozens of different nationalities that live here, but a lot of that is the result of hundreds of years of being one country, over those years we have fought wars TOGETHER we have developed a national pride, a work ethic and a togetherness, a bit like a family, the odd argument but when the chips are down we pull together, mixing another 27 into that mix some of which we have a lot in common but many we have very little, I believe just cant nor wont work. Just look at Yugoslavia and the USSR held together for a few decades by the gun but given the chance went their own way, now in a hundred years or so that might change, one thing that would help would be a common language, try suggesting that to any of the 27 that they give theirs up to speak English or Spanish
I serously wouldnt know where to start with that.
We have also fought wars against each other.. ireland being the obvious example.
Said in another thread..if you go to places in the north and places on the south ,you would think you would think it was a different country.
What is so different between an Englishman and a German?
You start off by saying we welcome all nationalities.. but then say we have nothing in common with them?
"
a sense of humour lol |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
Well this thread didn't go to plan.
Not much discussion - just shit slinging and people claiming it would not work due to ill defined concepts such as culture |
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"Why would you want an eu superstate? too many different ways of life and cultures for it to ever work.
And the uk doesn't have different ways of life and culture ?
One big happy family here we could be of ppl just calm down and stop looking back mate "
I'm sure they would be very happy to stop looking back if someone gave them an idea of exactly what it is they have to look forward to.
What will utopia look like ?
|
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"Why would you want an eu superstate? too many different ways of life and cultures for it to ever work.
And the uk doesn't have different ways of life and culture ?
Of course it does and that makes for diversity and variety including of course the dozens of different nationalities that live here, but a lot of that is the result of hundreds of years of being one country, over those years we have fought wars TOGETHER we have developed a national pride, a work ethic and a togetherness, a bit like a family, the odd argument but when the chips are down we pull together, mixing another 27 into that mix some of which we have a lot in common but many we have very little, I believe just cant nor wont work. Just look at Yugoslavia and the USSR held together for a few decades by the gun but given the chance went their own way, now in a hundred years or so that might change, one thing that would help would be a common language, try suggesting that to any of the 27 that they give theirs up to speak English or Spanish"
So let me get this right
The british fought and defeated the Germans as one country in ww2 ?
My history teacher was a lieing barsteward ffs |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Why would you want an eu superstate? too many different ways of life and cultures for it to ever work.
And the uk doesn't have different ways of life and culture ?
Of course it does and that makes for diversity and variety including of course the dozens of different nationalities that live here, but a lot of that is the result of hundreds of years of being one country, over those years we have fought wars TOGETHER we have developed a national pride, a work ethic and a togetherness, a bit like a family, the odd argument but when the chips are down we pull together, mixing another 27 into that mix some of which we have a lot in common but many we have very little, I believe just cant nor wont work. Just look at Yugoslavia and the USSR held together for a few decades by the gun but given the chance went their own way, now in a hundred years or so that might change, one thing that would help would be a common language, try suggesting that to any of the 27 that they give theirs up to speak English or Spanish
So let me get this right
The british fought and defeated the Germans as one country in ww2 ?
My history teacher was a lieing barsteward ffs"
Maybe you should read the post again because seems fairly plain to me that is not what the op said at all. |
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By *obka3Couple
over a year ago
bournemouth |
"Why would you want an eu superstate? too many different ways of life and cultures for it
Of course it does and that makes for diversity and variety including of course the dozens of different nationalities that live here, but a lot of that is the result of hundreds of years of being one country, over those years we have fought wars TOGETHER we have developed a national pride, a work ethic and a togetherness, a bit like a family, the odd argument but when the chips are down we pull together, mixing another 27 into that mix some of which we have a lot in common but many we have very little, I believe just cant nor wont work. Just look at Yugoslavia and the USSR held together for a few decades by the gun but given the chance went their own way, now in a hundred years or so that might change, one thing that would help would be a common language, try suggesting that to any of the 27 that they give theirs up to speak English or Spanish
So let me get this right
The british fought and defeated the Germans as one country in ww2 ?
My history teacher was a lieing barsteward ffs"
History started a long time before 1939.
Being Anglo Saxons we have a lot in common with the Germans, it's not the northern european countries that we would struggle with but the southern and eastern ones, not saying their work ethic, or culture etc are wrong, far from it but they are just very different, would be the same if we were going to join up with Arab countries etc.
A bit like a swinger couple going to live with monks or nuns, both are perfectly valid views but not really compatible |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Why would you want an eu superstate? too many different ways of life and cultures for it
Of course it does and that makes for diversity and variety including of course the dozens of different nationalities that live here, but a lot of that is the result of hundreds of years of being one country, over those years we have fought wars TOGETHER we have developed a national pride, a work ethic and a togetherness, a bit like a family, the odd argument but when the chips are down we pull together, mixing another 27 into that mix some of which we have a lot in common but many we have very little, I believe just cant nor wont work. Just look at Yugoslavia and the USSR held together for a few decades by the gun but given the chance went their own way, now in a hundred years or so that might change, one thing that would help would be a common language, try suggesting that to any of the 27 that they give theirs up to speak English or Spanish
So let me get this right
The british fought and defeated the Germans as one country in ww2 ?
My history teacher was a lieing barsteward ffs
History started a long time before 1939.
Being Anglo Saxons we have a lot in common with the Germans, it's not the northern european countries that we would struggle with but the southern and eastern ones, not saying their work ethic, or culture etc are wrong, far from it but they are just very different, would be the same if we were going to join up with Arab countries etc.
A bit like a swinger couple going to live with monks or nuns, both are perfectly valid views but not really compatible "
I do understand this point of view. In your example, working hours for Spain (including a 2-3 hour lunch for a siesta) would not be suitable for people living in northern Europe.
But at the core, most people want a roof over their head, the means to support their family, and opportunities in life to make things better.
I think that some centralisation of some core functions can help with this. But my personal opinion, is that localised decision making is needed. Different parts of Spain have different cultures and different wants and needs. |
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"Why would you want an eu superstate? too many different ways of life and cultures for it to ever work.
And the uk doesn't have different ways of life and culture ?
Of course it does and that makes for diversity and variety including of course the dozens of different nationalities that live here, but a lot of that is the result of hundreds of years of being one country, over those years we have fought wars TOGETHER we have developed a national pride, a work ethic and a togetherness, a bit like a family, the odd argument but when the chips are down we pull together, mixing another 27 into that mix some of which we have a lot in common but many we have very little, I believe just cant nor wont work. Just look at Yugoslavia and the USSR held together for a few decades by the gun but given the chance went their own way, now in a hundred years or so that might change, one thing that would help would be a common language, try suggesting that to any of the 27 that they give theirs up to speak English or Spanish
So let me get this right
The british fought and defeated the Germans as one country in ww2 ?
My history teacher was a lieing barsteward ffs
Maybe you should read the post again because seems fairly plain to me that is not what the op said at all."
It's what I read or I wouldn't have put an opinion. |
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By *exy7Man
over a year ago
Bristol |
"The fear on an EU superstate, or a federal states of Europe is often cited by leavers as something moderately high up on the list of reasons why they voted to leave. Often linking into the concept of decision making and accountability when people are pressed to explain their concerns in more detail.
I don't actually support the idea.
But I would like to know why leave voters appear scared of this. I have reservations, however given the instability of America and American foreign policy, and given China's neo-colonialism - don't you think it's useful to be seated alongside other developed nations incase there are complications within NATO.
Can any leavers just explain why the concept of further Union scared them? To those who voted remain, lets keep it civil and not berate others.I am oposed to a Euro state as there are to many differences between the people for it to work and the Germans and French would want to control this causing friction.
The EU does not work now as to many national interest involved.
When we live there will be pproblems but as the EU falls apart all will be glad we are out of it.Free trade yes everything else no no no
"
What’s this obsession about the French and the Germans wanting to dominate? Countries that dominate do so for a reason. Either they are more powerful or they have more ‘Soft power’ in a way or another. If the UK is a strong and as powerful as the leavers tell us, if it has as many assets and as much leverage as we are told, why did the U.K. never manage to take the leadership of the EU?
So we used to play second fiddle to Germany and France but we are now going to boss Chiba and the US on our own? Yeah.... |
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"The fear on an EU superstate, or a federal states of Europe is often cited by leavers as something moderately high up on the list of reasons why they voted to leave. Often linking into the concept of decision making and accountability when people are pressed to explain their concerns in more detail.
I don't actually support the idea.
But I would like to know why leave voters appear scared of this. I have reservations, however given the instability of America and American foreign policy, and given China's neo-colonialism - don't you think it's useful to be seated alongside other developed nations incase there are complications within NATO.
Can any leavers just explain why the concept of further Union scared them? To those who voted remain, lets keep it civil and not berate others.I am oposed to a Euro state as there are to many differences between the people for it to work and the Germans and French would want to control this causing friction.
The EU does not work now as to many national interest involved.
When we live there will be pproblems but as the EU falls apart all will be glad we are out of it.Free trade yes everything else no no no
What’s this obsession about the French and the Germans wanting to dominate? Countries that dominate do so for a reason. Either they are more powerful or they have more ‘Soft power’ in a way or another. If the UK is a strong and as powerful as the leavers tell us, if it has as many assets and as much leverage as we are told, why did the U.K. never manage to take the leadership of the EU?
So we used to play second fiddle to Germany and France but we are now going to boss Chiba and the US on our own? Yeah.... "
not wanting to boss anyone just leaving the eu as we voted on |
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By *obka3Couple
over a year ago
bournemouth |
"
I serously wouldnt know where to start with that.
We have also fought wars against each other.. ireland being the obvious example.
Said in another thread..if you go to places in the north and places on the south ,you would think you would think it was a different country.
What is so different between an Englishman and a German?
You start off by saying we welcome all nationalities.. but then say we have nothing in common with them?
"
If you mean we have fought wars within the UK yes but the last was 350 years ago, the irish war of independence cost around 2000 deaths so hardly a huge toil and without looking it up I expect more deaths occurred during "the troubles".
Having many different nationalities coming here and living under our laws and becoming "british" is very different than whole countries becoming one, as I said language being the biggest hurdle, while some countries might have regions where more than one is used getting any european country to give up theirs isnt going to happen.
As I have said if Europe's citizen vote for a single state then I for one will accept it as a democratic decision, it's just a shame you cant do the same over brexit or even it appears the last uk general election. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Why would you want an eu superstate? too many different ways of life and cultures for it to ever work.
And the uk doesn't have different ways of life and culture ?
Of course it does and that makes for diversity and variety including of course the dozens of different nationalities that live here, but a lot of that is the result of hundreds of years of being one country, over those years we have fought wars TOGETHER we have developed a national pride, a work ethic and a togetherness, a bit like a family, the odd argument but when the chips are down we pull together, mixing another 27 into that mix some of which we have a lot in common but many we have very little, I believe just cant nor wont work. Just look at Yugoslavia and the USSR held together for a few decades by the gun but given the chance went their own way, now in a hundred years or so that might change, one thing that would help would be a common language, try suggesting that to any of the 27 that they give theirs up to speak English or Spanish
So let me get this right
The british fought and defeated the Germans as one country in ww2 ?
My history teacher was a lieing barsteward ffs
Maybe you should read the post again because seems fairly plain to me that is not what the op said at all.
It's what I read or I wouldn't have put an opinion."
Fair enough, but I cant see where it says that in the ops post and there reply to you kind of backs this up too but never mind. |
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By *exy7Man
over a year ago
Bristol |
"The fear on an EU superstate, or a federal states of Europe is often cited by leavers as something moderately high up on the list of reasons why they voted to leave. Often linking into the concept of decision making and accountability when people are pressed to explain their concerns in more detail.
I don't actually support the idea.
But I would like to know why leave voters appear scared of this. I have reservations, however given the instability of America and American foreign policy, and given China's neo-colonialism - don't you think it's useful to be seated alongside other developed nations incase there are complications within NATO.
Can any leavers just explain why the concept of further Union scared them? To those who voted remain, lets keep it civil and not berate others.I am oposed to a Euro state as there are to many differences between the people for it to work and the Germans and French would want to control this causing friction.
The EU does not work now as to many national interest involved.
When we live there will be pproblems but as the EU falls apart all will be glad we are out of it.Free trade yes everything else no no no
What’s this obsession about the French and the Germans wanting to dominate? Countries that dominate do so for a reason. Either they are more powerful or they have more ‘Soft power’ in a way or another. If the UK is a strong and as powerful as the leavers tell us, if it has as many assets and as much leverage as we are told, why did the U.K. never manage to take the leadership of the EU?
So we used to play second fiddle to Germany and France but we are now going to boss Chiba and the US on our own? Yeah.... not wanting to boss anyone just leaving the eu as we voted on "
To survive in this world, countries need to have political influence and economical power and enough influence. On the world stage, the U.K. is a dwarf with 65m people. I can’t see how we’ll make our voice heard politically, how we will have enough clout to dictate anything else economically. We will be taking orders from other countries which are more powerful than us. We won’t impose anything to China,to the US or to the EU. From being a big player in a fairly heavy bloc, we’re about to become an isolated minor player. Anybody believing it will be different is living in dreamland and need to land in the 21st century. |
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"The fear on an EU superstate, or a federal states of Europe is often cited by leavers as something moderately high up on the list of reasons why they voted to leave. Often linking into the concept of decision making and accountability when people are pressed to explain their concerns in more detail.
I don't actually support the idea.
But I would like to know why leave voters appear scared of this. I have reservations, however given the instability of America and American foreign policy, and given China's neo-colonialism - don't you think it's useful to be seated alongside other developed nations incase there are complications within NATO.
Can any leavers just explain why the concept of further Union scared them? To those who voted remain, lets keep it civil and not berate others.I am oposed to a Euro state as there are to many differences between the people for it to work and the Germans and French would want to control this causing friction.
The EU does not work now as to many national interest involved.
When we live there will be pproblems but as the EU falls apart all will be glad we are out of it.Free trade yes everything else no no no
What’s this obsession about the French and the Germans wanting to dominate? Countries that dominate do so for a reason. Either they are more powerful or they have more ‘Soft power’ in a way or another. If the UK is a strong and as powerful as the leavers tell us, if it has as many assets and as much leverage as we are told, why did the U.K. never manage to take the leadership of the EU?
So we used to play second fiddle to Germany and France but we are now going to boss Chiba and the US on our own? Yeah.... not wanting to boss anyone just leaving the eu as we voted on
To survive in this world, countries need to have political influence and economical power and enough influence. On the world stage, the U.K. is a dwarf with 65m people. I can’t see how we’ll make our voice heard politically, how we will have enough clout to dictate anything else economically. We will be taking orders from other countries which are more powerful than us. We won’t impose anything to China,to the US or to the EU. From being a big player in a fairly heavy bloc, we’re about to become an isolated minor player. Anybody believing it will be different is living in dreamland and need to land in the 21st century. "
to survive in this world for gods sake man now what are you predicting the end of the U.K. we better get our passports and bugger of to Europe oh wait or shit we are all doooomed lol |
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"Well the EU seems to have come together and is more robust than ever. Even Angela Merkel taking in 1m refugees appears to have paid off... the right wing is in massive decline in Germany and the refugees appear to have been absorbed into the work force etc.
I agree that however unfortunate, the Brits have to live with the consequences of Brexit. For the last year or so there is 60:40 balance in opinion polls saying Brexit was a mistake. So it will be a real challenge to live with this contradiction - especially when we see the economic and other consequences - we likely will go even further towards regret even as we all try to just suck it up and find ways to cope. Our so-called sovereignty has not really been repatriated... for example trade tariffs will be set by the WTO (well we can make a sovereign decision not to trade, which we will in certain areas because we won't be competitive so will have to just wind down those sectors). So WTO will be the new enemy... and so on whenever there's a body trying to coordinate different countries.
For now we ought to be more worried by the fact that there has been a massive clear out within government and the civil service in order to ensure posts are filled with ardent Brexiters regardless of ability. They are now running the country and I don't think anyone really believes we have the top talent in charge!!! So one positive might be that once we are past January we can try to build back up the best qualified people to help everyone in the UK. We just need to be careful the current government doesn't undo the democratic mechanisms to make this possible - right now the likes of Cummings would rather lead a dictatorship it seems."
Why will the WTO be our enemy? The WTO do not set tariffs, individual countries do |
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By *exy7Man
over a year ago
Bristol |
"The fear on an EU superstate, or a federal states of Europe is often cited by leavers as something moderately high up on the list of reasons why they voted to leave. Often linking into the concept of decision making and accountability when people are pressed to explain their concerns in more detail.
I don't actually support the idea.
But I would like to know why leave voters appear scared of this. I have reservations, however given the instability of America and American foreign policy, and given China's neo-colonialism - don't you think it's useful to be seated alongside other developed nations incase there are complications within NATO.
Can any leavers just explain why the concept of further Union scared them? To those who voted remain, lets keep it civil and not berate others.I am oposed to a Euro state as there are to many differences between the people for it to work and the Germans and French would want to control this causing friction.
The EU does not work now as to many national interest involved.
When we live there will be pproblems but as the EU falls apart all will be glad we are out of it.Free trade yes everything else no no no
What’s this obsession about the French and the Germans wanting to dominate? Countries that dominate do so for a reason. Either they are more powerful or they have more ‘Soft power’ in a way or another. If the UK is a strong and as powerful as the leavers tell us, if it has as many assets and as much leverage as we are told, why did the U.K. never manage to take the leadership of the EU?
So we used to play second fiddle to Germany and France but we are now going to boss Chiba and the US on our own? Yeah.... not wanting to boss anyone just leaving the eu as we voted on
To survive in this world, countries need to have political influence and economical power and enough influence. On the world stage, the U.K. is a dwarf with 65m people. I can’t see how we’ll make our voice heard politically, how we will have enough clout to dictate anything else economically. We will be taking orders from other countries which are more powerful than us. We won’t impose anything to China,to the US or to the EU. From being a big player in a fairly heavy bloc, we’re about to become an isolated minor player. Anybody believing it will be different is living in dreamland and need to land in the 21st century. to survive in this world for gods sake man now what are you predicting the end of the U.K. we better get our passportsand bugger of to Europe oh wait or shit we are all doooomed lol"
Lol. I mean, feel free to disagree and give us your arguments, but please avoid patronising me. You haven’t got what it takes to do so. I will have tried but it’s clearly beyond you to have a reasonable debate that goes further than lol, mate, doooooned and the odd sentence that makes sense etc... Back to ‘ignoring you’ mode. Please do the same. I’m done with educating oysters. |
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"The fear on an EU superstate, or a federal states of Europe is often cited by leavers as something moderately high up on the list of reasons why they voted to leave. Often linking into the concept of decision making and accountability when people are pressed to explain their concerns in more detail.
I don't actually support the idea.
But I would like to know why leave voters appear scared of this. I have reservations, however given the instability of America and American foreign policy, and given China's neo-colonialism - don't you think it's useful to be seated alongside other developed nations incase there are complications within NATO.
Can any leavers just explain why the concept of further Union scared them? To those who voted remain, lets keep it civil and not berate others.I am oposed to a Euro state as there are to many differences between the people for it to work and the Germans and French would want to control this causing friction.
The EU does not work now as to many national interest involved.
When we live there will be pproblems but as the EU falls apart all will be glad we are out of it.Free trade yes everything else no no no
What’s this obsession about the French and the Germans wanting to dominate? Countries that dominate do so for a reason. Either they are more powerful or they have more ‘Soft power’ in a way or another. If the UK is a strong and as powerful as the leavers tell us, if it has as many assets and as much leverage as we are told, why did the U.K. never manage to take the leadership of the EU?
So we used to play second fiddle to Germany and France but we are now going to boss Chiba and the US on our own? Yeah.... not wanting to boss anyone just leaving the eu as we voted on
To survive in this world, countries need to have political influence and economical power and enough influence. On the world stage, the U.K. is a dwarf with 65m people. I can’t see how we’ll make our voice heard politically, how we will have enough clout to dictate anything else economically. We will be taking orders from other countries which are more powerful than us. We won’t impose anything to China,to the US or to the EU. From being a big player in a fairly heavy bloc, we’re about to become an isolated minor player. Anybody believing it will be different is living in dreamland and need to land in the 21st century. to survive in this world for gods sake man now what are you predicting the end of the U.K. we better get our passportsand bugger of to Europe oh wait or shit we are all doooomed lol
Lol. I mean, feel free to disagree and give us your arguments, but please avoid patronising me. You haven’t got what it takes to do so. I will have tried but it’s clearly beyond you to have a reasonable debate that goes further than lol, mate, doooooned and the odd sentence that makes sense etc... Back to ‘ignoring you’ mode. Please do the same. I’m done with educating oysters. "
please don’t patronise me then you stick I’m done with educating oysters wtf yr a bute you mate |
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By *exy7Man
over a year ago
Bristol |
"The fear on an EU superstate, or a federal states of Europe is often cited by leavers as something moderately high up on the list of reasons why they voted to leave. Often linking into the concept of decision making and accountability when people are pressed to explain their concerns in more detail.
I don't actually support the idea.
But I would like to know why leave voters appear scared of this. I have reservations, however given the instability of America and American foreign policy, and given China's neo-colonialism - don't you think it's useful to be seated alongside other developed nations incase there are complications within NATO.
Can any leavers just explain why the concept of further Union scared them? To those who voted remain, lets keep it civil and not berate others.I am oposed to a Euro state as there are to many differences between the people for it to work and the Germans and French would want to control this causing friction.
The EU does not work now as to many national interest involved.
When we live there will be pproblems but as the EU falls apart all will be glad we are out of it.Free trade yes everything else no no no
What’s this obsession about the French and the Germans wanting to dominate? Countries that dominate do so for a reason. Either they are more powerful or they have more ‘Soft power’ in a way or another. If the UK is a strong and as powerful as the leavers tell us, if it has as many assets and as much leverage as we are told, why did the U.K. never manage to take the leadership of the EU?
So we used to play second fiddle to Germany and France but we are now going to boss Chiba and the US on our own? Yeah.... not wanting to boss anyone just leaving the eu as we voted on
To survive in this world, countries need to have political influence and economical power and enough influence. On the world stage, the U.K. is a dwarf with 65m people. I can’t see how we’ll make our voice heard politically, how we will have enough clout to dictate anything else economically. We will be taking orders from other countries which are more powerful than us. We won’t impose anything to China,to the US or to the EU. From being a big player in a fairly heavy bloc, we’re about to become an isolated minor player. Anybody believing it will be different is living in dreamland and need to land in the 21st century. to survive in this world for gods sake man now what are you predicting the end of the U.K. we better get our passportsand bugger of to Europe oh wait or shit we are all doooomed lol
Lol. I mean, feel free to disagree and give us your arguments, but please avoid patronising me. You haven’t got what it takes to do so. I will have tried but it’s clearly beyond you to have a reasonable debate that goes further than lol, mate, doooooned and the odd sentence that makes sense etc... Back to ‘ignoring you’ mode. Please do the same. I’m done with educating oysters. please don’t patronise me then you stick I’m done with educating oysters wtf yr a bute you mate "
Yes because I’ve got what it takes to patronise you. My first answer to you was fine and respectful but you immediately reverted to your familiarity and exaggerations. I don’t live on your farm. Enjoy Brexit. For people like you, you’ll see plenty of differences. Good night. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Well the EU seems to have come together and is more robust than ever. Even Angela Merkel taking in 1m refugees appears to have paid off... the right wing is in massive decline in Germany and the refugees appear to have been absorbed into the work force etc.
I agree that however unfortunate, the Brits have to live with the consequences of Brexit. For the last year or so there is 60:40 balance in opinion polls saying Brexit was a mistake. So it will be a real challenge to live with this contradiction - especially when we see the economic and other consequences - we likely will go even further towards regret even as we all try to just suck it up and find ways to cope. Our so-called sovereignty has not really been repatriated... for example trade tariffs will be set by the WTO (well we can make a sovereign decision not to trade, which we will in certain areas because we won't be competitive so will have to just wind down those sectors). So WTO will be the new enemy... and so on whenever there's a body trying to coordinate different countries.
For now we ought to be more worried by the fact that there has been a massive clear out within government and the civil service in order to ensure posts are filled with ardent Brexiters regardless of ability. They are now running the country and I don't think anyone really believes we have the top talent in charge!!! So one positive might be that once we are past January we can try to build back up the best qualified people to help everyone in the UK. We just need to be careful the current government doesn't undo the democratic mechanisms to make this possible - right now the likes of Cummings would rather lead a dictatorship it seems.
Why will the WTO be our enemy? The WTO do not set tariffs, individual countries do"
I think it was just a prediction, that those who blamed the EU for everything under the sun, will need a new scapegoat. |
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By *exy7Man
over a year ago
Bristol |
"Well the EU seems to have come together and is more robust than ever. Even Angela Merkel taking in 1m refugees appears to have paid off... the right wing is in massive decline in Germany and the refugees appear to have been absorbed into the work force etc.
I agree that however unfortunate, the Brits have to live with the consequences of Brexit. For the last year or so there is 60:40 balance in opinion polls saying Brexit was a mistake. So it will be a real challenge to live with this contradiction - especially when we see the economic and other consequences - we likely will go even further towards regret even as we all try to just suck it up and find ways to cope. Our so-called sovereignty has not really been repatriated... for example trade tariffs will be set by the WTO (well we can make a sovereign decision not to trade, which we will in certain areas because we won't be competitive so will have to just wind down those sectors). So WTO will be the new enemy... and so on whenever there's a body trying to coordinate different countries.
For now we ought to be more worried by the fact that there has been a massive clear out within government and the civil service in order to ensure posts are filled with ardent Brexiters regardless of ability. They are now running the country and I don't think anyone really believes we have the top talent in charge!!! So one positive might be that once we are past January we can try to build back up the best qualified people to help everyone in the UK. We just need to be careful the current government doesn't undo the democratic mechanisms to make this possible - right now the likes of Cummings would rather lead a dictatorship it seems.
Why will the WTO be our enemy? The WTO do not set tariffs, individual countries do
I think it was just a prediction, that those who blamed the EU for everything under the sun, will need a new scapegoat."
Even when we are out of the EU, they’ll still blame the EU, the commies, the unions etc... I can’t wait to see the face the brexiters’ faces when the shit hit their fans. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Well the EU seems to have come together and is more robust than ever. Even Angela Merkel taking in 1m refugees appears to have paid off... the right wing is in massive decline in Germany and the refugees appear to have been absorbed into the work force etc.
I agree that however unfortunate, the Brits have to live with the consequences of Brexit. For the last year or so there is 60:40 balance in opinion polls saying Brexit was a mistake. So it will be a real challenge to live with this contradiction - especially when we see the economic and other consequences - we likely will go even further towards regret even as we all try to just suck it up and find ways to cope. Our so-called sovereignty has not really been repatriated... for example trade tariffs will be set by the WTO (well we can make a sovereign decision not to trade, which we will in certain areas because we won't be competitive so will have to just wind down those sectors). So WTO will be the new enemy... and so on whenever there's a body trying to coordinate different countries.
For now we ought to be more worried by the fact that there has been a massive clear out within government and the civil service in order to ensure posts are filled with ardent Brexiters regardless of ability. They are now running the country and I don't think anyone really believes we have the top talent in charge!!! So one positive might be that once we are past January we can try to build back up the best qualified people to help everyone in the UK. We just need to be careful the current government doesn't undo the democratic mechanisms to make this possible - right now the likes of Cummings would rather lead a dictatorship it seems.
Why will the WTO be our enemy? The WTO do not set tariffs, individual countries do
I think it was just a prediction, that those who blamed the EU for everything under the sun, will need a new scapegoat.
Even when we are out of the EU, they’ll still blame the EU, the commies, the unions etc... I can’t wait to see the face the brexiters’ faces when the shit hit their fans. "
"It's just a flesh wound" The Black Knight. |
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"The fear on an EU superstate, or a federal states of Europe is often cited by leavers as something moderately high up on the list of reasons why they voted to leave. Often linking into the concept of decision making and accountability when people are pressed to explain their concerns in more detail.
I don't actually support the idea.
But I would like to know why leave voters appear scared of this. I have reservations, however given the instability of America and American foreign policy, and given China's neo-colonialism - don't you think it's useful to be seated alongside other developed nations incase there are complications within NATO.
Can any leavers just explain why the concept of further Union scared them? To those who voted remain, lets keep it civil and not berate others.I am oposed to a Euro state as there are to many differences between the people for it to work and the Germans and French would want to control this causing friction.
The EU does not work now as to many national interest involved.
When we live there will be pproblems but as the EU falls apart all will be glad we are out of it.Free trade yes everything else no no no
What’s this obsession about the French and the Germans wanting to dominate? Countries that dominate do so for a reason. Either they are more powerful or they have more ‘Soft power’ in a way or another. If the UK is a strong and as powerful as the leavers tell us, if it has as many assets and as much leverage as we are told, why did the U.K. never manage to take the leadership of the EU?
So we used to play second fiddle to Germany and France but we are now going to boss Chiba and the US on our own? Yeah.... not wanting to boss anyone just leaving the eu as we voted on
To survive in this world, countries need to have political influence and economical power and enough influence. On the world stage, the U.K. is a dwarf with 65m people. I can’t see how we’ll make our voice heard politically, how we will have enough clout to dictate anything else economically. We will be taking orders from other countries which are more powerful than us. We won’t impose anything to China,to the US or to the EU. From being a big player in a fairly heavy bloc, we’re about to become an isolated minor player. Anybody believing it will be different is living in dreamland and need to land in the 21st century. to survive in this world for gods sake man now what are you predicting the end of the U.K. we better get our passportsand bugger of to Europe oh wait or shit we are all doooomed lol
Lol. I mean, feel free to disagree and give us your arguments, but please avoid patronising me. You haven’t got what it takes to do so. I will have tried but it’s clearly beyond you to have a reasonable debate that goes further than lol, mate, doooooned and the odd sentence that makes sense etc... Back to ‘ignoring you’ mode. Please do the same. I’m done with educating oysters. please don’t patronise me then you stick I’m done with educating oysters wtf yr a bute you mate
Yes because I’ve got what it takes to patronise you. My first answer to you was fine and respectful but you immediately reverted to your familiarity and exaggerations. I don’t live on your farm. Enjoy Brexit. For people like you, you’ll see plenty of differences. Good night. "
. People like me ? |
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"Why would you want an eu superstate? too many different ways of life and cultures for it to ever work.
And the uk doesn't have different ways of life and culture ?
Of course it does and that makes for diversity and variety including of course the dozens of different nationalities that live here, but a lot of that is the result of hundreds of years of being one country, over those years we have fought wars TOGETHER we have developed a national pride, a work ethic and a togetherness, a bit like a family, the odd argument but when the chips are down we pull together, mixing another 27 into that mix some of which we have a lot in common but many we have very little, I believe just cant nor wont work. Just look at Yugoslavia and the USSR held together for a few decades by the gun but given the chance went their own way, now in a hundred years or so that might change, one thing that would help would be a common language, try suggesting that to any of the 27 that they give theirs up to speak English or Spanish
So let me get this right
The british fought and defeated the Germans as one country in ww2 ?
My history teacher was a lieing barsteward ffs
Maybe you should read the post again because seems fairly plain to me that is not what the op said at all."
We are completely different to everyone on the continent
Despite there being loads of people from all over here.
In a nutshell |
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"The fear on an EU superstate, or a federal states of Europe is often cited by leavers as something moderately high up on the list of reasons why they voted to leave. Often linking into the concept of decision making and accountability when people are pressed to explain their concerns in more detail.
I don't actually support the idea.
But I would like to know why leave voters appear scared of this. I have reservations, however given the instability of America and American foreign policy, and given China's neo-colonialism - don't you think it's useful to be seated alongside other developed nations incase there are complications within NATO.
Can any leavers just explain why the concept of further Union scared them? To those who voted remain, lets keep it civil and not berate others.I am oposed to a Euro state as there are to many differences between the people for it to work and the Germans and French would want to control this causing friction.
The EU does not work now as to many national interest involved.
When we live there will be pproblems but as the EU falls apart all will be glad we are out of it.Free trade yes everything else no no no
What’s this obsession about the French and the Germans wanting to dominate? Countries that dominate do so for a reason. Either they are more powerful or they have more ‘Soft power’ in a way or another. If the UK is a strong and as powerful as the leavers tell us, if it has as many assets and as much leverage as we are told, why did the U.K. never manage to take the leadership of the EU?
So we used to play second fiddle to Germany and France but we are now going to boss Chiba and the US on our own? Yeah.... "
I asked that same question |
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"
I serously wouldnt know where to start with that.
We have also fought wars against each other.. ireland being the obvious example.
Said in another thread..if you go to places in the north and places on the south ,you would think you would think it was a different country.
What is so different between an Englishman and a German?
You start off by saying we welcome all nationalities.. but then say we have nothing in common with them?
If you mean we have fought wars within the UK yes but the last was 350 years ago, the irish war of independence cost around 2000 deaths so hardly a huge toil and without looking it up I expect more deaths occurred during "the troubles".
Having many different nationalities coming here and living under our laws and becoming "british" is very different than whole countries becoming one, as I said language being the biggest hurdle, while some countries might have regions where more than one is used getting any european country to give up theirs isnt going to happen.
As I have said if Europe's citizen vote for a single state then I for one will accept it as a democratic decision, it's just a shame you cant do the same over brexit or even it appears the last uk general election."
Considering the population of Ireland is not particularly big..I'd say It was a big death toll.
I'll be honest..I've never understood this anti European feeling..I truly dont understand where it comes from
Its nothing to do with getting over Brexit..its done
The op asked a question about europe. |
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By *exy7Man
over a year ago
Bristol |
"The fear on an EU superstate, or a federal states of Europe is often cited by leavers as something moderately high up on the list of reasons why they voted to leave. Often linking into the concept of decision making and accountability when people are pressed to explain their concerns in more detail.
I don't actually support the idea.
But I would like to know why leave voters appear scared of this. I have reservations, however given the instability of America and American foreign policy, and given China's neo-colonialism - don't you think it's useful to be seated alongside other developed nations incase there are complications within NATO.
Can any leavers just explain why the concept of further Union scared them? To those who voted remain, lets keep it civil and not berate others.I am oposed to a Euro state as there are to many differences between the people for it to work and the Germans and French would want to control this causing friction.
The EU does not work now as to many national interest involved.
When we live there will be pproblems but as the EU falls apart all will be glad we are out of it.Free trade yes everything else no no no
What’s this obsession about the French and the Germans wanting to dominate? Countries that dominate do so for a reason. Either they are more powerful or they have more ‘Soft power’ in a way or another. If the UK is a strong and as powerful as the leavers tell us, if it has as many assets and as much leverage as we are told, why did the U.K. never manage to take the leadership of the EU?
So we used to play second fiddle to Germany and France but we are now going to boss Chiba and the US on our own? Yeah....
I asked that same question "
It looks like our leavers are having a long think about this one. It’ll be an interesting answer. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
I dont think the EU, the US or any country is going to be bossing China about personally, they have become a major economic power house and militarily they now dwarf the _riginal superpowers. |
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By *obka3Couple
over a year ago
bournemouth |
"
I serously wouldnt know where to start with that.
We have also fought wars against each other.. ireland being the obvious example.
Said in another thread..if you go to places in the north and places on the south ,you would think you would think it was a different country.
What is so different between an Englishman and a German?
You start off by saying we welcome all nationalities.. but then say we have nothing in common with them?
If you mean we have fought wars within the UK yes but the last was 350 years ago, the irish war of independence cost around 2000 deaths so hardly a huge toil and without looking it up I expect more deaths occurred during "the troubles".
Having many different nationalities coming here and living under our laws and becoming "british" is very different than whole countries becoming one, as I said language being the biggest hurdle, while some countries might have regions where more than one is used getting any european country to give up theirs isnt going to happen.
As I have said if Europe's citizen vote for a single state then I for one will accept it as a democratic decision, it's just a shame you cant do the same over brexit or even it appears the last uk general election.
Considering the population of Ireland is not particularly big..I'd say It was a big death toll.
I'll be honest..I've never understood this anti European feeling..I truly dont understand where it comes from
Its nothing to do with getting over Brexit..its done
The op asked a question about europe."
So 2000 deaths in a war is a lot, 500 of those were british, I no know one who has an anti european feeling, it's an anti EU feeling and as you appear not to know there is a difference, a very big difference, the op didnt ask a question about Europe, he asked a question about an EU superstate, again that's very different, perhaps some time learning the difference would help you understand why many including me voted the way we did |
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By *obka3Couple
over a year ago
bournemouth |
"I dont think the EU, the US or any country is going to be bossing China about personally, they have become a major economic power house and militarily they now dwarf the _riginal superpowers."
They have but they rely on the rest of the world buying their stuff, stop buying it and they are in shit street, |
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By *exy7Man
over a year ago
Bristol |
"I dont think the EU, the US or any country is going to be bossing China about personally, they have become a major economic power house and militarily they now dwarf the _riginal superpowers."
Maybe but if the EU is a dwarf, the U.K. is a tiny dwarf. It’s obvious that the bigger a bloc is, the more leverage it’ll have and the less one sided the relationship will be. If you play rugby with 13 players vs 15 you’ll resist better than if you are 4 vs 15. It’s as simple as that but we have won ww2 and we’re soooooo special and more clever than anyone else that we’ll be fine.
|
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"
I serously wouldnt know where to start with that.
We have also fought wars against each other.. ireland being the obvious example.
Said in another thread..if you go to places in the north and places on the south ,you would think you would think it was a different country.
What is so different between an Englishman and a German?
You start off by saying we welcome all nationalities.. but then say we have nothing in common with them?
If you mean we have fought wars within the UK yes but the last was 350 years ago, the irish war of independence cost around 2000 deaths so hardly a huge toil and without looking it up I expect more deaths occurred during "the troubles".
Having many different nationalities coming here and living under our laws and becoming "british" is very different than whole countries becoming one, as I said language being the biggest hurdle, while some countries might have regions where more than one is used getting any european country to give up theirs isnt going to happen.
As I have said if Europe's citizen vote for a single state then I for one will accept it as a democratic decision, it's just a shame you cant do the same over brexit or even it appears the last uk general election.
Considering the population of Ireland is not particularly big..I'd say It was a big death toll.
I'll be honest..I've never understood this anti European feeling..I truly dont understand where it comes from
Its nothing to do with getting over Brexit..its done
The op asked a question about europe.
So 2000 deaths in a war is a lot, 500 of those were british, I no know one who has an anti european feeling, it's an anti EU feeling and as you appear not to know there is a difference, a very big difference, the op didnt ask a question about Europe, he asked a question about an EU superstate, again that's very different, perhaps some time learning the difference would help you understand why many including me voted the way we did "
Please explain to me the cut off point for an acceptable death toll In a conflict.
It's going off topic but I fail to understand how you can trivialise a conflict which tore a country apart.
You know no one who has anti European feeling?
I must have dreamt those 30 years of crude headlines in the mail and the rag.
Little tip.You camt really pull of being patrionising.
|
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By *obka3Couple
over a year ago
bournemouth |
"I dont think the EU, the US or any country is going to be bossing China about personally, they have become a major economic power house and militarily they now dwarf the _riginal superpowers.
Maybe but if the EU is a dwarf, the U.K. is a tiny dwarf. It’s obvious that the bigger a bloc is, the more leverage it’ll have and the less one sided the relationship will be. If you play rugby with 13 players vs 15 you’ll resist better than if you are 4 vs 15. It’s as simple as that but we have won ww2 and we’re soooooo special and more clever than anyone else that we’ll be fine.
"
It would be nice if you showed a bit more respect for those that gave their lives from every country that defeated the Nazis, their death allows you to voice your opinion, try doing that in china or russia.
An apology would be nice but wont hold my breath |
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By *obka3Couple
over a year ago
bournemouth |
"
I serously wouldnt know where to start with that.
We have also fought wars against each other.. ireland being the obvious example.
Said in another thread..if you go to places in the north and places on the south ,you would think you would think it was a different country.
What is so different between an Englishman and a German?
You start off by saying we welcome all nationalities.. but then say we have nothing in common with them?
If you mean we have fought wars within the UK yes but the last was 350 years ago, the irish war of independence cost around 2000 deaths so hardly a huge toil and without looking it up I expect more deaths occurred during "the troubles".
Having many different nationalities coming here and living under our laws and becoming "british" is very different than whole countries becoming one, as I said language being the biggest hurdle, while some countries might have regions where more than one is used getting any european country to give up theirs isnt going to happen.
As I have said if Europe's citizen vote for a single state then I for one will accept it as a democratic decision, it's just a shame you cant do the same over brexit or even it appears the last uk general election.
Considering the population of Ireland is not particularly big..I'd say It was a big death toll.
I'll be honest..I've never understood this anti European feeling..I truly dont understand where it comes from
Its nothing to do with getting over Brexit..its done
The op asked a question about europe.
So 2000 deaths in a war is a lot, 500 of those were british, I no know one who has an anti european feeling, it's an anti EU feeling and as you appear not to know there is a difference, a very big difference, the op didnt ask a question about Europe, he asked a question about an EU superstate, again that's very different, perhaps some time learning the difference would help you understand why many including me voted the way we did
Please explain to me the cut off point for an acceptable death toll In a conflict.
It's going off topic but I fail to understand how you can trivialise a conflict which tore a country apart.
You know no one who has anti European feeling?
I must have dreamt those 30 years of crude headlines in the mail and the rag.
Little tip.You camt really pull of being patrionising.
"
Yet again you fail to see the difference between europe and the EU. |
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"
I serously wouldnt know where to start with that.
We have also fought wars against each other.. ireland being the obvious example.
Said in another thread..if you go to places in the north and places on the south ,you would think you would think it was a different country.
What is so different between an Englishman and a German?
You start off by saying we welcome all nationalities.. but then say we have nothing in common with them?
If you mean we have fought wars within the UK yes but the last was 350 years ago, the irish war of independence cost around 2000 deaths so hardly a huge toil and without looking it up I expect more deaths occurred during "the troubles".
Having many different nationalities coming here and living under our laws and becoming "british" is very different than whole countries becoming one, as I said language being the biggest hurdle, while some countries might have regions where more than one is used getting any european country to give up theirs isnt going to happen.
As I have said if Europe's citizen vote for a single state then I for one will accept it as a democratic decision, it's just a shame you cant do the same over brexit or even it appears the last uk general election.
Considering the population of Ireland is not particularly big..I'd say It was a big death toll.
I'll be honest..I've never understood this anti European feeling..I truly dont understand where it comes from
Its nothing to do with getting over Brexit..its done
The op asked a question about europe.
So 2000 deaths in a war is a lot, 500 of those were british, I no know one who has an anti european feeling, it's an anti EU feeling and as you appear not to know there is a difference, a very big difference, the op didnt ask a question about Europe, he asked a question about an EU superstate, again that's very different, perhaps some time learning the difference would help you understand why many including me voted the way we did
Please explain to me the cut off point for an acceptable death toll In a conflict.
It's going off topic but I fail to understand how you can trivialise a conflict which tore a country apart.
You know no one who has anti European feeling?
I must have dreamt those 30 years of crude headlines in the mail and the rag.
Little tip.You camt really pull of being patrionising.
Yet again you fail to see the difference between europe and the EU."
It's getting sidetracked
Try answering the _riginal question |
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"Well the EU seems to have come together and is more robust than ever. Even Angela Merkel taking in 1m refugees appears to have paid off... the right wing is in massive decline in Germany and the refugees appear to have been absorbed into the work force etc.
I agree that however unfortunate, the Brits have to live with the consequences of Brexit. For the last year or so there is 60:40 balance in opinion polls saying Brexit was a mistake. So it will be a real challenge to live with this contradiction - especially when we see the economic and other consequences - we likely will go even further towards regret even as we all try to just suck it up and find ways to cope. Our so-called sovereignty has not really been repatriated... for example trade tariffs will be set by the WTO (well we can make a sovereign decision not to trade, which we will in certain areas because we won't be competitive so will have to just wind down those sectors). So WTO will be the new enemy... and so on whenever there's a body trying to coordinate different countries.
For now we ought to be more worried by the fact that there has been a massive clear out within government and the civil service in order to ensure posts are filled with ardent Brexiters regardless of ability. They are now running the country and I don't think anyone really believes we have the top talent in charge!!! So one positive might be that once we are past January we can try to build back up the best qualified people to help everyone in the UK. We just need to be careful the current government doesn't undo the democratic mechanisms to make this possible - right now the likes of Cummings would rather lead a dictatorship it seems.
Why will the WTO be our enemy? The WTO do not set tariffs, individual countries do
I think it was just a prediction, that those who blamed the EU for everything under the sun, will need a new scapegoat."
I'm not blaming the EU or anyone. It did not read like a prediction so was just pointing out the inaccuracy |
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By *exy7Man
over a year ago
Bristol |
"I dont think the EU, the US or any country is going to be bossing China about personally, they have become a major economic power house and militarily they now dwarf the _riginal superpowers.
Maybe but if the EU is a dwarf, the U.K. is a tiny dwarf. It’s obvious that the bigger a bloc is, the more leverage it’ll have and the less one sided the relationship will be. If you play rugby with 13 players vs 15 you’ll resist better than if you are 4 vs 15. It’s as simple as that but we have won ww2 and we’re soooooo special and more clever than anyone else that we’ll be fine.
It would be nice if you showed a bit more respect for those that gave their lives from every country that defeated the Nazis, their death allows you to voice your opinion, try doing that in china or russia.
An apology would be nice but wont hold my breath "
I respect everyone that fought ww2. Please stop being offended by something which wasn’t disrespectful.
However nowadays, I regard Germany as an ally and a country that I have a lot of respect for. I regard Germany as a respectable country that we have a lot to learn from and not just on the Covid front. I’m proud to speak German and to have a lot of German friends despite my grandad having fought ww2. He had moved on himself before he died, unlike you - and you probably didn’t fight in 1944. You only use your ancestors’ glory to suit your pathetic agenda. Not much to be proud of unlike what our ancestors went though. I’m certain that most of them would be against brexit and anything that put stupid barriers between these two countries. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I dont think the EU, the US or any country is going to be bossing China about personally, they have become a major economic power house and militarily they now dwarf the _riginal superpowers.
Maybe but if the EU is a dwarf, the U.K. is a tiny dwarf. It’s obvious that the bigger a bloc is, the more leverage it’ll have and the less one sided the relationship will be. If you play rugby with 13 players vs 15 you’ll resist better than if you are 4 vs 15. It’s as simple as that but we have won ww2 and we’re soooooo special and more clever than anyone else that we’ll be fine.
"
I never said any country or the EU was a dwarf, I said that militarily China now dwarfed the _riginal superpowers of Russia and the US. I agree the bigger the block/country the more power and influence they would have, that stands to reason its not rocket science is it really. |
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By *exy7Man
over a year ago
Bristol |
Still waiting for an answer to this:
If we never managed to become the main voice of the EU and always played second fiddle to Germany and France to the point that we even left it because we were being bullied and taken for a ride, how are we going to compete and impose our views and our wishes to countries which are far more powerful than France and Germany.
|
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By *exy7Man
over a year ago
Bristol |
"I dont think the EU, the US or any country is going to be bossing China about personally, they have become a major economic power house and militarily they now dwarf the _riginal superpowers.
Maybe but if the EU is a dwarf, the U.K. is a tiny dwarf. It’s obvious that the bigger a bloc is, the more leverage it’ll have and the less one sided the relationship will be. If you play rugby with 13 players vs 15 you’ll resist better than if you are 4 vs 15. It’s as simple as that but we have won ww2 and we’re soooooo special and more clever than anyone else that we’ll be fine.
I never said any country or the EU was a dwarf, I said that militarily China now dwarfed the _riginal superpowers of Russia and the US. I agree the bigger the block/country the more power and influence they would have, that stands to reason its not
rocket science is it really. "
No it’s not rocket science. We’re in agreement!
|
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By *exy7Man
over a year ago
Bristol |
"
I serously wouldnt know where to start with that.
We have also fought wars against each other.. ireland being the obvious example.
Said in another thread..if you go to places in the north and places on the south ,you would think you would think it was a different country.
What is so different between an Englishman and a German?
You start off by saying we welcome all nationalities.. but then say we have nothing in common with them?
If you mean we have fought wars within the UK yes but the last was 350 years ago, the irish war of independence cost around 2000 deaths so hardly a huge toil and without looking it up I expect more deaths occurred during "the troubles".
Having many different nationalities coming here and living under our laws and becoming "british" is very different than whole countries becoming one, as I said language being the biggest hurdle, while some countries might have regions where more than one is used getting any european country to give up theirs isnt going to happen.
As I have said if Europe's citizen vote for a single state then I for one will accept it as a democratic decision, it's just a shame you cant do the same over brexit or even it appears the last uk general election.
Considering the population of Ireland is not particularly big..I'd say It was a big death toll.
I'll be honest..I've never understood this anti European feeling..I truly dont understand where it comes from
Its nothing to do with getting over Brexit..its done
The op asked a question about europe.
So 2000 deaths in a war is a lot, 500 of those were british, I no know one who has an anti european feeling, it's an anti EU feeling and as you appear not to know there is a difference, a very big difference, the op didnt ask a question about Europe, he asked a question about an EU superstate, again that's very different, perhaps some time learning the difference would help you understand why many including me voted the way we did
Please explain to me the cut off point for an acceptable death toll In a conflict.
It's going off topic but I fail to understand how you can trivialise a conflict which tore a country apart.
You know no one who has anti European feeling?
I must have dreamt those 30 years of crude headlines in the mail and the rag.
Little tip.You camt really pull of being patrionising.
"
I have never seen any anti German headlines in our rags when England play Germany at football for example. Never the slightest reference to the war, to the nazis etc... you must have dreamt all these anti German, anti French, anti anything that’s not British in the Daily Heil and the Sun. |
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By *ackal1Couple
over a year ago
Manchester |
"I dont think the EU, the US or any country is going to be bossing China about personally, they have become a major economic power house and militarily they now dwarf the _riginal superpowers.
They have but they rely on the rest of the world buying their stuff, stop buying it and they are in shit street, "
Think you’ll find a China’s home market is booming so their own population is creating almost as much economic growth, |
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"
I serously wouldnt know where to start with that.
We have also fought wars against each other.. ireland being the obvious example.
Said in another thread..if you go to places in the north and places on the south ,you would think you would think it was a different country.
What is so different between an Englishman and a German?
You start off by saying we welcome all nationalities.. but then say we have nothing in common with them?
If you mean we have fought wars within the UK yes but the last was 350 years ago, the irish war of independence cost around 2000 deaths so hardly a huge toil and without looking it up I expect more deaths occurred during "the troubles".
Having many different nationalities coming here and living under our laws and becoming "british" is very different than whole countries becoming one, as I said language being the biggest hurdle, while some countries might have regions where more than one is used getting any european country to give up theirs isnt going to happen.
As I have said if Europe's citizen vote for a single state then I for one will accept it as a democratic decision, it's just a shame you cant do the same over brexit or even it appears the last uk general election.
Considering the population of Ireland is not particularly big..I'd say It was a big death toll.
I'll be honest..I've never understood this anti European feeling..I truly dont understand where it comes from
Its nothing to do with getting over Brexit..its done
The op asked a question about europe.
So 2000 deaths in a war is a lot, 500 of those were british, I no know one who has an anti european feeling, it's an anti EU feeling and as you appear not to know there is a difference, a very big difference, the op didnt ask a question about Europe, he asked a question about an EU superstate, again that's very different, perhaps some time learning the difference would help you understand why many including me voted the way we did
Please explain to me the cut off point for an acceptable death toll In a conflict.
It's going off topic but I fail to understand how you can trivialise a conflict which tore a country apart.
You know no one who has anti European feeling?
I must have dreamt those 30 years of crude headlines in the mail and the rag.
Little tip.You camt really pull of being patrionising.
I have never seen any anti German headlines in our rags when England play Germany at football for example. Never the slightest reference to the war, to the nazis etc... you must have dreamt all these anti German, anti French, anti anything that’s not British in the Daily Heil and the Sun. "
Apparently it's all anti EU and not anti European. |
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By *ackal1Couple
over a year ago
Manchester |
"I dont think the EU, the US or any country is going to be bossing China about personally, they have become a major economic power house and militarily they now dwarf the _riginal superpowers.
Maybe but if the EU is a dwarf, the U.K. is a tiny dwarf. It’s obvious that the bigger a bloc is, the more leverage it’ll have and the less one sided the relationship will be. If you play rugby with 13 players vs 15 you’ll resist better than if you are 4 vs 15. It’s as simple as that but we have won ww2 and we’re soooooo special and more clever than anyone else that we’ll be fine.
I never said any country or the EU was a dwarf, I said that militarily China now dwarfed the _riginal superpowers of Russia and the US. I agree the bigger the block/country the more power and influence they would have, that stands to reason its not rocket science is it really. "
China isn’t there yet but catching up fast.
Power wide today it’s USA number one by a large margin followed by Russia then China.
Spending today is USA $650Billion, China $250Billion, Russia $60 Billion Western Europe including UK $240 Billion |
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By *exy7Man
over a year ago
Bristol |
"Still waiting for an answer to this:
If we never managed to become the main voice of the EU and always played second fiddle to Germany and France to the point that we even left it because we were being bullied and taken for a ride, how are we going to compete and impose our views and our wishes to countries which are far more powerful than France and Germany.
"
I’ll try again. Any takers in the brexit team? |
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"Still waiting for an answer to this:
If we never managed to become the main voice of the EU and always played second fiddle to Germany and France to the point that we even left it because we were being bullied and taken for a ride, how are we going to compete and impose our views and our wishes to countries which are far more powerful than France and Germany.
I’ll try again. Any takers in the brexit team? "
Explain "impose our views and our wishes"? |
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By *exy7Man
over a year ago
Bristol |
"Still waiting for an answer to this:
If we never managed to become the main voice of the EU and always played second fiddle to Germany and France to the point that we even left it because we were being bullied and taken for a ride, how are we going to compete and impose our views and our wishes to countries which are far more powerful than France and Germany.
I’ll try again. Any takers in the brexit team?
Explain "impose our views and our wishes"?"
‘Be listened to’ and ‘get what we want’.
Pop corn is ready. |
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"Still waiting for an answer to this:
If we never managed to become the main voice of the EU and always played second fiddle to Germany and France to the point that we even left it because we were being bullied and taken for a ride, how are we going to compete and impose our views and our wishes to countries which are far more powerful than France and Germany.
I’ll try again. Any takers in the brexit team?
Explain "impose our views and our wishes"?
‘Be listened to’ and ‘get what we want’.
Pop corn is ready. "
I don't see those two statements as being the same thing. |
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By *exy7Man
over a year ago
Bristol |
"Still waiting for an answer to this:
If we never managed to become the main voice of the EU and always played second fiddle to Germany and France to the point that we even left it because we were being bullied and taken for a ride, how are we going to compete and impose our views and our wishes to countries which are far more powerful than France and Germany.
I’ll try again. Any takers in the brexit team?
Explain "impose our views and our wishes"?
‘Be listened to’ and ‘get what we want’.
Pop corn is ready.
I don't see those two statements as being the same thing."
Oh no! I’m not asking the right question! Damn. Somebody else’s fault again. Feel free to rephrase it so that it suits you and make it easier to suit your rhetoric. However, this is my question. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Still waiting for an answer to this:
If we never managed to become the main voice of the EU and always played second fiddle to Germany and France to the point that we even left it because we were being bullied and taken for a ride, how are we going to compete and impose our views and our wishes to countries which are far more powerful than France and Germany.
I’ll try again. Any takers in the brexit team? "
Its like women, if you have to impose your views and wishes on them you are with the wrong one. Likewise if they take advantage of your good nature. |
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"Still waiting for an answer to this:
If we never managed to become the main voice of the EU and always played second fiddle to Germany and France to the point that we even left it because we were being bullied and taken for a ride, how are we going to compete and impose our views and our wishes to countries which are far more powerful than France and Germany.
I’ll try again. Any takers in the brexit team?
Explain "impose our views and our wishes"?
‘Be listened to’ and ‘get what we want’.
Pop corn is ready.
I don't see those two statements as being the same thing.
Oh no! I’m not asking the right question! Damn. Somebody else’s fault again. Feel free to rephrase it so that it suits you and make it easier to suit your rhetoric. However, this is my question. "
You have asked two different questions. Which one are you asking? |
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By *exy7Man
over a year ago
Bristol |
"Still waiting for an answer to this:
If we never managed to become the main voice of the EU and always played second fiddle to Germany and France to the point that we even left it because we were being bullied and taken for a ride, how are we going to compete and impose our views and our wishes to countries which are far more powerful than France and Germany.
I’ll try again. Any takers in the brexit team?
Explain "impose our views and our wishes"?
‘Be listened to’ and ‘get what we want’.
Pop corn is ready.
I don't see those two statements as being the same thing.
Oh no! I’m not asking the right question! Damn. Somebody else’s fault again. Feel free to rephrase it so that it suits you and make it easier to suit your rhetoric. However, this is my question.
You have asked two different questions. Which one are you asking?"
Both. |
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"Still waiting for an answer to this:
If we never managed to become the main voice of the EU and always played second fiddle to Germany and France to the point that we even left it because we were being bullied and taken for a ride, how are we going to compete and impose our views and our wishes to countries which are far more powerful than France and Germany.
I’ll try again. Any takers in the brexit team?
Explain "impose our views and our wishes"?
‘Be listened to’ and ‘get what we want’.
Pop corn is ready.
I don't see those two statements as being the same thing.
Oh no! I’m not asking the right question! Damn. Somebody else’s fault again. Feel free to rephrase it so that it suits you and make it easier to suit your rhetoric. However, this is my question.
You have asked two different questions. Which one are you asking?
Both. "
You need to rewrite your whole statement again including both questions then. |
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By *exy7Man
over a year ago
Bristol |
"Still waiting for an answer to this:
If we never managed to become the main voice of the EU and always played second fiddle to Germany and France to the point that we even left it because we were being bullied and taken for a ride, how are we going to compete and impose our views and our wishes to countries which are far more powerful than France and Germany.
I’ll try again. Any takers in the brexit team?
Explain "impose our views and our wishes"?
‘Be listened to’ and ‘get what we want’.
Pop corn is ready.
I don't see those two statements as being the same thing.
Oh no! I’m not asking the right question! Damn. Somebody else’s fault again. Feel free to rephrase it so that it suits you and make it easier to suit your rhetoric. However, this is my question.
You have asked two different questions. Which one are you asking?
Both.
You need to rewrite your whole statement again including both questions then."
Or you could come up with your own ‘internal posting bill’ a la Boris to show us the extent of your dishonesty. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Still waiting for an answer to this:
If we never managed to become the main voice of the EU and always played second fiddle to Germany and France to the point that we even left it because we were being bullied and taken for a ride, how are we going to compete and impose our views and our wishes to countries which are far more powerful than France and Germany.
I’ll try again. Any takers in the brexit team? "
I can't answer your questions because that is not why I voted to leave, it was never about being bullied, imposing views on the world or wanting to take control of the EU with me, sorry. |
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"Still waiting for an answer to this:
If we never managed to become the main voice of the EU and always played second fiddle to Germany and France to the point that we even left it because we were being bullied and taken for a ride, how are we going to compete and impose our views and our wishes to countries which are far more powerful than France and Germany.
I’ll try again. Any takers in the brexit team?
Explain "impose our views and our wishes"?
‘Be listened to’ and ‘get what we want’.
Pop corn is ready.
I don't see those two statements as being the same thing.
Oh no! I’m not asking the right question! Damn. Somebody else’s fault again. Feel free to rephrase it so that it suits you and make it easier to suit your rhetoric. However, this is my question.
You have asked two different questions. Which one are you asking?
Both.
You need to rewrite your whole statement again including both questions then.
Or you could come up with your own ‘internal posting bill’ a la Boris to show us the extent of your dishonesty."
You're not going to rewrite your statement then? |
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"Still waiting for an answer to this:
If we never managed to become the main voice of the EU and always played second fiddle to Germany and France to the point that we even left it because we were being bullied and taken for a ride, how are we going to compete and impose our views and our wishes to countries which are far more powerful than France and Germany.
I’ll try again. Any takers in the brexit team?
I can't answer your questions because that is not why I voted to leave, it was never about being bullied, imposing views on the world or wanting to take control of the EU with me, sorry."
But you accept it was a big factor for a lot of people? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Personally I dont really agree with nation's bullying other nation's just because they are bigger or more powerful and nor do I think its right for nation's to try and impose there views or beliefs on another just because they differ, that sort of thing creates resentment and leads to the possibility of terrorism or war as we have witnessed from our own meddling at times. |
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By *exy7Man
over a year ago
Bristol |
"Still waiting for an answer to this:
If we never managed to become the main voice of the EU and always played second fiddle to Germany and France to the point that we even left it because we were being bullied and taken for a ride, how are we going to compete and impose our views and our wishes to countries which are far more powerful than France and Germany.
I’ll try again. Any takers in the brexit team?
Explain "impose our views and our wishes"?
‘Be listened to’ and ‘get what we want’.
Pop corn is ready.
I don't see those two statements as being the same thing.
Oh no! I’m not asking the right question! Damn. Somebody else’s fault again. Feel free to rephrase it so that it suits you and make it easier to suit your rhetoric. However, this is my question.
You have asked two different questions. Which one are you asking?
Both.
You need to rewrite your whole statement again including both questions then.
Or you could come up with your own ‘internal posting bill’ a la Boris to show us the extent of your dishonesty.
You're not going to rewrite your statement then?"
OK I will because you’re so weak!
A ton avis, si on avait tant de mal à se faire entendre quand on était soit-disant malmenés par la France et l’Allemagne quand on faisait partie de l’union européenne, comment on va pouvoir imposer nos vues et obtenir ce qu’on veut quand on va devoir se coltiner la Chine ou les Ricains? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Still waiting for an answer to this:
If we never managed to become the main voice of the EU and always played second fiddle to Germany and France to the point that we even left it because we were being bullied and taken for a ride, how are we going to compete and impose our views and our wishes to countries which are far more powerful than France and Germany.
I’ll try again. Any takers in the brexit team?
I can't answer your questions because that is not why I voted to leave, it was never about being bullied, imposing views on the world or wanting to take control of the EU with me, sorry.
But you accept it was a big factor for a lot of people?"
I dont know really Lionel to be honest, I cant really say anyone I personally know who voted to leave has said that they were the reasons why they wanted to leave, but then I will be the first to admit I am not talking about a large number of people here obviously within the context of all those who voted. I have said before I think there are many reasons why and I dont think its that easy to just nail it down to one thing, well thats my opinion anyway. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"I dont think the EU, the US or any country is going to be bossing China about personally, they have become a major economic power house and militarily they now dwarf the _riginal superpowers.
They have but they rely on the rest of the world buying their stuff, stop buying it and they are in shit street, "
I think you should revise this statement.
Since 2010 China had been on an aggressive 'buy assets and invest in countries for trade favours' policy.
Eg,. China owns a port in Zimbabwe - I think that's the country - not, China has rights to a port. No China owns a section of Zimbabwean territory. They have build a 10,000 strong Chinese national 'town' to support this port.
As part of the purchase China made sure it has priority to extract mineral wealth over other nations, in exchange for infrastructure investment.
It moved a lot of its manufacturing overseas, creating a system where China extracts minerals for manufacturing on the cheap, and now creates manufacturing in other countries to feed it's middle class.
This view you hold of China is something China is working on resolving as the State understands is vulnerability.
All I'm saying is you might not want to apply a view from 1995-2010 to the 2020's. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I didnt chicken out mate, I explained above why I could not answer, basically your question revolved around things that were not the reason why I chose to vote leave. Guess you need somebody who left for those reasons to answer you. |
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By *exy7Man
over a year ago
Bristol |
"I didnt chicken out mate, I explained above why I could not answer, basically your question revolved around things that were not the reason why I chose to vote leave. Guess you need somebody who left for those reasons to answer you."
I wasn’t thinking of you at all! You’re the only one who has the decency to explain your view and for explaining yourself! |
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"So ...all our brexiters have chickened out. This can be added to the list of questions they won’t answer. Much easier to live in fantasyland than in the real world. "
Still waiting for you to rewrite your statement with both questions in. |
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By *exy7Man
over a year ago
Bristol |
"So ...all our brexiters have chickened out. This can be added to the list of questions they won’t answer. Much easier to live in fantasyland than in the real world.
Still waiting for you to rewrite your statement with both questions in."
I have. |
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