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Voting is it a right or a privilege?
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Neither. It should be a civic duty and requirement of citizenship, not optional whatsoever. You can choose what (or even if) you put on the ballot but it should be mandatory to turn up and get your name ticked off. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Simple one, do you think voting is a right or a privilege?"
Not our problem. We should only be concerned with whatever's happening on our street. Issues like the ones you mentioned don't matter at all.
(See how pointless posts like this are?) |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Simple one, do you think voting is a right or a privilege?"
Democracy is a sham. We have few options, most of which make little to no difference to the citizens. The electorate vote for whoever has the most control over the media anyway. |
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By *estivalMan
over a year ago
borehamwood |
"Neither. It should be a civic duty and requirement of citizenship, not optional whatsoever. You can choose what (or even if) you put on the ballot but it should be mandatory to turn up and get your name ticked off."
nah shoukdnt be mandatory i choose not to vote so dont fancy being told i have to.all making it mandatory does is create more spoiled votes to count from people like me.my right not to vote is just as valid as someines right to vote |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Its a right in a democracy but many would prefer it if it was a privilege granted only to landowners. I would like it if it was mandatory to vote or at least express an opinion even if its “none of the above” because it seems to me that with current social media once you have expressed an interest in something you get bombarded with similar stuff and nothing challenges your point of view in a valid and thoughtful way. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Simple one, do you think voting is a right or a privilege?"
For us in the UK it's a right to choose to vote or not but many around the world would see it as a privilege for themselves if they could vote. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Neither. It should be a civic duty and requirement of citizenship, not optional whatsoever. You can choose what (or even if) you put on the ballot but it should be mandatory to turn up and get your name ticked off.
nah shoukdnt be mandatory i choose not to vote so dont fancy being told i have to.all making it mandatory does is create more spoiled votes to count from people like me.my right not to vote is just as valid as someines right to vote"
Not voting is a valid option.
It shouldn't be mandatory to vote. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I think voting should be a privilege for those that earn it. I love Heinlein’s libertarian take on democracy in Starship Troopers. Citizens can vote, civilians can’t.  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I think voting should be a privilege for those that earn it. I love Heinlein’s libertarian take on democracy in Starship Troopers. Citizens can vote, civilians can’t. "
Interesting.
If I remember rightly the purpose of this, in the movie, was to only allow people who follow orders and who are obedient to authority to vote.
We already have too much of that.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I think voting should be a privilege for those that earn it. I love Heinlein’s libertarian take on democracy in Starship Troopers. Citizens can vote, civilians can’t.
Interesting.
If I remember rightly the purpose of this, in the movie, was to only allow people who follow orders and who are obedient to authority to vote.
We already have too much of that.
"
The movie is very very different from the book. The book has a lot more detail on how the system works and the function and value of civic virtue in democracy. Don’t judge Heinlein by that shit show of a movie. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I think voting should be a privilege for those that earn it. I love Heinlein’s libertarian take on democracy in Starship Troopers. Citizens can vote, civilians can’t.
Interesting.
If I remember rightly the purpose of this, in the movie, was to only allow people who follow orders and who are obedient to authority to vote.
We already have too much of that.
The movie is very very different from the book. The book has a lot more detail on how the system works and the function and value of civic virtue in democracy. Don’t judge Heinlein by that shit show of a movie. "
Ah ha.
I'll get back to you after I've read it.
In general, I think democracy works better when the electorate is better educated on how to critically analyse information provided to them. But I have no suggestions how to do that in the UK. |
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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago
upton wirral |
"Neither. It should be a civic duty and requirement of citizenship, not optional whatsoever. You can choose what (or even if) you put on the ballot but it should be mandatory to turn up and get your name ticked off."
We are not a police state thank god
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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago
upton wirral |
"I think voting should be a privilege for those that earn it. I love Heinlein’s libertarian take on democracy in Starship Troopers. Citizens can vote, civilians can’t. "
Some I do think are to stupid to vote but you cannot stop it,just raise voting age to 25 should help a bit |
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"I think voting should be a privilege for those that earn it. I love Heinlein’s libertarian take on democracy in Starship Troopers. Citizens can vote, civilians can’t. Some I do think are to stupid to vote but you cannot stop it,just raise voting age to 25 should help a bit"
Yep as you grow out of stupidity at the age of 25. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I think voting should be a privilege for those that earn it. I love Heinlein’s libertarian take on democracy in Starship Troopers. Citizens can vote, civilians can’t. Some I do think are to stupid to vote but you cannot stop it,just raise voting age to 25 should help a bit
Yep as you grow out of stupidity at the age of 25."
Recent surveys show older people being more entrenched with their political allegiances and generally less on the ball about current government policies.
I wouldn't suggest that raising the voting age to 25 would make any positive impact.
By and large, the electorate vote whichever way those who control the media want them to. |
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By *exy7Man
over a year ago
Bristol |
"Neither. It should be a civic duty and requirement of citizenship, not optional whatsoever. You can choose what (or even if) you put on the ballot but it should be mandatory to turn up and get your name ticked off.We are not a police state thank god"
There are a lot countries where voting is compulsory and they are not ‘police state countries’. Belgium is one. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Simple one, do you think voting is a right or a privilege?
Not our problem. We should only be concerned with whatever's happening on our street. Issues like the ones you mentioned don't matter at all.
(See how pointless posts like this are?)
So petty....."
It was petty.It is after all a Forum  |
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By *exy7Man
over a year ago
Bristol |
"I think voting should be a privilege for those that earn it. I love Heinlein’s libertarian take on democracy in Starship Troopers. Citizens can vote, civilians can’t. Some I do think are to stupid to vote but you cannot stop it,just raise voting age to 25 should help a bit"
It’s not just a question of age. The few brexiters I know are well over 25 and are all as thick as two planks. Some teenagers are knowledgeable about politics. I’d say I’ve never known British youngsters being as knowledgeable about pokitics as they currently are.
Mind you, they have been shafted on so many occasions recently that they’d better be aware and interested: tuition fees with the Lib Dems , tuition fees increase by the nasty party; austerity cuts in Education by the nasty party, exams results scandal by the nasty party, brexit that might prevent some of our students to settle in EU countries by the nasty party, unemployment bound to rise sharply and the superb return to uni last week orchestrated by the nasty party.
The youngsters are taking notice! |
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"I think voting should be a privilege for those that earn it. I love Heinlein’s libertarian take on democracy in Starship Troopers. Citizens can vote, civilians can’t. Some I do think are to stupid to vote but you cannot stop it,just raise voting age to 25 should help a bit
It’s not just a question of age. The few brexiters I know are well over 25 and are all as thick as two planks. Some teenagers are knowledgeable about politics. I’d say I’ve never known British youngsters being as knowledgeable about pokitics as they currently are.
Mind you, they have been shafted on so many occasions recently that they’d better be aware and interested: tuition fees with the Lib Dems , tuition fees increase by the nasty party; austerity cuts in Education by the nasty party, exams results scandal by the nasty party, brexit that might prevent some of our students to settle in EU countries by the nasty party, unemployment bound to rise sharply and the superb return to uni last week orchestrated by the nasty party.
The youngsters are taking notice! "
so are any remainers over 25 thick as two short planks or just leavers lol |
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"I think voting should be a privilege for those that earn it. I love Heinlein’s libertarian take on democracy in Starship Troopers. Citizens can vote, civilians can’t. Some I do think are to stupid to vote but you cannot stop it,just raise voting age to 25 should help a bit
It’s not just a question of age. The few brexiters I know are well over 25 and are all as thick as two planks. Some teenagers are knowledgeable about politics. I’d say I’ve never known British youngsters being as knowledgeable about pokitics as they currently are.
Mind you, they have been shafted on so many occasions recently that they’d better be aware and interested: tuition fees with the Lib Dems , tuition fees increase by the nasty party; austerity cuts in Education by the nasty party, exams results scandal by the nasty party, brexit that might prevent some of our students to settle in EU countries by the nasty party, unemployment bound to rise sharply and the superb return to uni last week orchestrated by the nasty party.
The youngsters are taking notice! "
The youngsters certainly have been shafted as they have been faced with an unelectable opposition party.! |
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"I think voting should be a privilege for those that earn it. I love Heinlein’s libertarian take on democracy in Starship Troopers. Citizens can vote, civilians can’t. Some I do think are to stupid to vote but you cannot stop it,just raise voting age to 25 should help a bit
It’s not just a question of age. The few brexiters I know are well over 25 and are all as thick as two planks. Some teenagers are knowledgeable about politics. I’d say I’ve never known British youngsters being as knowledgeable about pokitics as they currently are.
Mind you, they have been shafted on so many occasions recently that they’d better be aware and interested: tuition fees with the Lib Dems , tuition fees increase by the nasty party; austerity cuts in Education by the nasty party, exams results scandal by the nasty party, brexit that might prevent some of our students to settle in EU countries by the nasty party, unemployment bound to rise sharply and the superb return to uni last week orchestrated by the nasty party.
The youngsters are taking notice!
The youngsters certainly have been shafted as they have been faced with an unelectable opposition party.!"
Probally why they all voted for them. |
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By *exy7Man
over a year ago
Bristol |
"I think voting should be a privilege for those that earn it. I love Heinlein’s libertarian take on democracy in Starship Troopers. Citizens can vote, civilians can’t. Some I do think are to stupid to vote but you cannot stop it,just raise voting age to 25 should help a bit
It’s not just a question of age. The few brexiters I know are well over 25 and are all as thick as two planks. Some teenagers are knowledgeable about politics. I’d say I’ve never known British youngsters being as knowledgeable about pokitics as they currently are.
Mind you, they have been shafted on so many occasions recently that they’d better be aware and interested: tuition fees with the Lib Dems , tuition fees increase by the nasty party; austerity cuts in Education by the nasty party, exams results scandal by the nasty party, brexit that might prevent some of our students to settle in EU countries by the nasty party, unemployment bound to rise sharply and the superb return to uni last week orchestrated by the nasty party.
The youngsters are taking notice!
The youngsters certainly have been shafted as they have been faced with an unelectable opposition party.!"
You need to check what happened in the last election with students and people aged below 30. Your party tends to appeal to the people who are over 60 and who would like their country to be like what it was line 50 years ago. The war, the empire, the monarchy etc... |
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By *exy7Man
over a year ago
Bristol |
"I think voting should be a privilege for those that earn it. I love Heinlein’s libertarian take on democracy in Starship Troopers. Citizens can vote, civilians can’t. Some I do think are to stupid to vote but you cannot stop it,just raise voting age to 25 should help a bit
It’s not just a question of age. The few brexiters I know are well over 25 and are all as thick as two planks. Some teenagers are knowledgeable about politics. I’d say I’ve never known British youngsters being as knowledgeable about pokitics as they currently are.
Mind you, they have been shafted on so many occasions recently that they’d better be aware and interested: tuition fees with the Lib Dems , tuition fees increase by the nasty party; austerity cuts in Education by the nasty party, exams results scandal by the nasty party, brexit that might prevent some of our students to settle in EU countries by the nasty party, unemployment bound to rise sharply and the superb return to uni last week orchestrated by the nasty party.
The youngsters are taking notice!
The youngsters certainly have been shafted as they have been faced with an unelectable opposition party.!"
Just leavers of course. Let’s keep it simple for you.. |
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"I think voting should be a privilege for those that earn it. I love Heinlein’s libertarian take on democracy in Starship Troopers. Citizens can vote, civilians can’t. Some I do think are to stupid to vote but you cannot stop it,just raise voting age to 25 should help a bit
It’s not just a question of age. The few brexiters I know are well over 25 and are all as thick as two planks. Some teenagers are knowledgeable about politics. I’d say I’ve never known British youngsters being as knowledgeable about pokitics as they currently are.
Mind you, they have been shafted on so many occasions recently that they’d better be aware and interested: tuition fees with the Lib Dems , tuition fees increase by the nasty party; austerity cuts in Education by the nasty party, exams results scandal by the nasty party, brexit that might prevent some of our students to settle in EU countries by the nasty party, unemployment bound to rise sharply and the superb return to uni last week orchestrated by the nasty party.
The youngsters are taking notice! "
They are taking notice I hope. The Scottish independence referendum was an example. These youngsters will grow up and priorities change. Even older people were young once and often held similar views |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I think voting should be a privilege for those that earn it. I love Heinlein’s libertarian take on democracy in Starship Troopers. Citizens can vote, civilians can’t.
Interesting.
If I remember rightly the purpose of this, in the movie, was to only allow people who follow orders and who are obedient to authority to vote.
We already have too much of that.
The movie is very very different from the book. The book has a lot more detail on how the system works and the function and value of civic virtue in democracy. Don’t judge Heinlein by that shit show of a movie.
Ah ha.
I'll get back to you after I've read it.
In general, I think democracy works better when the electorate is better educated on how to critically analyse information provided to them. But I have no suggestions how to do that in the UK."
I agree. Educated electorates always produce better functioning societies.
The Terran Federation in the book achieves a greater understanding of democracy through education. All the students have a compulsory subject called history and moral philosophy which goes into all the detail of how 20th century democracies failed (in the book - some of which is frighteningly similar to what’s going on in the west now). This compulsory course serves to instil in the students a real sense of what becoming a citizen will take. And they’re generally discouraged from applying to become a citizen because it’s so hard. They know the cost (potentially their lives) and they’re still willing to go for it. Indoctrination we’d call it. |
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By *eroy1000Man
over a year ago
milton keynes |
"I think voting should be a privilege for those that earn it. I love Heinlein’s libertarian take on democracy in Starship Troopers. Citizens can vote, civilians can’t.
Interesting.
If I remember rightly the purpose of this, in the movie, was to only allow people who follow orders and who are obedient to authority to vote.
We already have too much of that.
The movie is very very different from the book. The book has a lot more detail on how the system works and the function and value of civic virtue in democracy. Don’t judge Heinlein by that shit show of a movie.
Ah ha.
I'll get back to you after I've read it.
In general, I think democracy works better when the electorate is better educated on how to critically analyse information provided to them. But I have no suggestions how to do that in the UK.
I agree. Educated electorates always produce better functioning societies.
The Terran Federation in the book achieves a greater understanding of democracy through education. All the students have a compulsory subject called history and moral philosophy which goes into all the detail of how 20th century democracies failed (in the book - some of which is frighteningly similar to what’s going on in the west now). This compulsory course serves to instil in the students a real sense of what becoming a citizen will take. And they’re generally discouraged from applying to become a citizen because it’s so hard. They know the cost (potentially their lives) and they’re still willing to go for it. Indoctrination we’d call it. "
Ideally yes having a well educated electorate is desirable but I would not want to deny the vote to anyone based on their education. |
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"I think voting should be a privilege for those that earn it. I love Heinlein’s libertarian take on democracy in Starship Troopers. Citizens can vote, civilians can’t. Some I do think are to stupid to vote but you cannot stop it,just raise voting age to 25 should help a bit
It’s not just a question of age. The few brexiters I know are well over 25 and are all as thick as two planks. Some teenagers are knowledgeable about politics. I’d say I’ve never known British youngsters being as knowledgeable about pokitics as they currently are.
Mind you, they have been shafted on so many occasions recently that they’d better be aware and interested: tuition fees with the Lib Dems , tuition fees increase by the nasty party; austerity cuts in Education by the nasty party, exams results scandal by the nasty party, brexit that might prevent some of our students to settle in EU countries by the nasty party, unemployment bound to rise sharply and the superb return to uni last week orchestrated by the nasty party.
The youngsters are taking notice!
The youngsters certainly have been shafted as they have been faced with an unelectable opposition party.!
You need to check what happened in the last election with students and people aged below 30. Your party tends to appeal to the people who are over 60 and who would like their country to be like what it was line 50 years ago. The war, the empire, the monarchy etc... "
They did an electoral map for the under 25s and it was literally the opposite of the actual vote |
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By *exy7Man
over a year ago
Bristol |
In the U.K., the vast majority of pupils drop History at the end of year 9 (same for Geography). This results in the average Brit knowing two or three things about Henry viii and obviously the war, the war, the horrible Germans and of course... the war.
As for Philosophy which is a compulsory subject at A level in some countries ( France being one of them), no need to mention that maybe 2% of students study it in the UK.
All this is fantastic to produce an uneducated population with very little general knowledge and that relies on our rags to tell them what is best for our country. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I think voting should be a privilege for those that earn it. I love Heinlein’s libertarian take on democracy in Starship Troopers. Citizens can vote, civilians can’t.
Interesting.
If I remember rightly the purpose of this, in the movie, was to only allow people who follow orders and who are obedient to authority to vote.
We already have too much of that.
The movie is very very different from the book. The book has a lot more detail on how the system works and the function and value of civic virtue in democracy. Don’t judge Heinlein by that shit show of a movie.
Ah ha.
I'll get back to you after I've read it.
In general, I think democracy works better when the electorate is better educated on how to critically analyse information provided to them. But I have no suggestions how to do that in the UK.
I agree. Educated electorates always produce better functioning societies.
The Terran Federation in the book achieves a greater understanding of democracy through education. All the students have a compulsory subject called history and moral philosophy which goes into all the detail of how 20th century democracies failed (in the book - some of which is frighteningly similar to what’s going on in the west now). This compulsory course serves to instil in the students a real sense of what becoming a citizen will take. And they’re generally discouraged from applying to become a citizen because it’s so hard. They know the cost (potentially their lives) and they’re still willing to go for it. Indoctrination we’d call it.
Ideally yes having a well educated electorate is desirable but I would not want to deny the vote to anyone based on their education."
Absolutely, in the case of a GE.
But imagine how different this country would be if for a referendum, in order for your vote to count, you had to answer 5 rudimentary questions about the subject on which you were voting.
EG. Five basic questions about what the EU is and how it works.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I think voting should be a privilege for those that earn it. I love Heinlein’s libertarian take on democracy in Starship Troopers. Citizens can vote, civilians can’t.
Interesting.
If I remember rightly the purpose of this, in the movie, was to only allow people who follow orders and who are obedient to authority to vote.
We already have too much of that.
The movie is very very different from the book. The book has a lot more detail on how the system works and the function and value of civic virtue in democracy. Don’t judge Heinlein by that shit show of a movie.
Ah ha.
I'll get back to you after I've read it.
In general, I think democracy works better when the electorate is better educated on how to critically analyse information provided to them. But I have no suggestions how to do that in the UK.
I agree. Educated electorates always produce better functioning societies.
The Terran Federation in the book achieves a greater understanding of democracy through education. All the students have a compulsory subject called history and moral philosophy which goes into all the detail of how 20th century democracies failed (in the book - some of which is frighteningly similar to what’s going on in the west now). This compulsory course serves to instil in the students a real sense of what becoming a citizen will take. And they’re generally discouraged from applying to become a citizen because it’s so hard. They know the cost (potentially their lives) and they’re still willing to go for it. Indoctrination we’d call it.
Ideally yes having a well educated electorate is desirable but I would not want to deny the vote to anyone based on their education."
The novel makes no distinction with education, that was my personal observation.
There’s several chapters in the book that talk about how anyone can have the right to citizenship (and therefore vote) regardless of age, gender, education or physical ability. The only way you can be eliminated from ever applying for citizenship is if a psychologist certifies that you can’t understand the Federal oath of service. It’s a common misconception (from the film I bet) that service is only in the military. The book again differs wildly in this. Heinlein makes a point of saying even if you were a quadriplegic, but you wanted the right to earn citizenship, then they’d find you a job to do. I can’t recommend reading it enough. |
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By *exy7Man
over a year ago
Bristol |
"I think voting should be a privilege for those that earn it. I love Heinlein’s libertarian take on democracy in Starship Troopers. Citizens can vote, civilians can’t.
Interesting.
If I remember rightly the purpose of this, in the movie, was to only allow people who follow orders and who are obedient to authority to vote.
We already have too much of that.
The movie is very very different from the book. The book has a lot more detail on how the system works and the function and value of civic virtue in democracy. Don’t judge Heinlein by that shit show of a movie.
Ah ha.
I'll get back to you after I've read it.
In general, I think democracy works better when the electorate is better educated on how to critically analyse information provided to them. But I have no suggestions how to do that in the UK.
I agree. Educated electorates always produce better functioning societies.
The Terran Federation in the book achieves a greater understanding of democracy through education. All the students have a compulsory subject called history and moral philosophy which goes into all the detail of how 20th century democracies failed (in the book - some of which is frighteningly similar to what’s going on in the west now). This compulsory course serves to instil in the students a real sense of what becoming a citizen will take. And they’re generally discouraged from applying to become a citizen because it’s so hard. They know the cost (potentially their lives) and they’re still willing to go for it. Indoctrination we’d call it.
Ideally yes having a well educated electorate is desirable but I would not want to deny the vote to anyone based on their education.
Absolutely, in the case of a GE.
But imagine how different this country would be if for a referendum, in order for your vote to count, you had to answer 5 rudimentary questions about the subject on which you were voting.
EG. Five basic questions about what the EU is and how it works.
"
Exactly!!
Let’s remind ourselves that the EU institutions are part of the syllabus in French, German and Spanish schools. Don’t know about the other countries.
Here listening to Farage rants and reading the articles on bendy bananas in the Daily Express is enough to have an opinion on the subject. That’s why I often refer to the U.K. as thickokand.
If the EU institutions were taught in school, maybe people would understand how it works, what it does etc... But no, it’s so much better to listen to our populist cretins to form an opinion.  |
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"I think voting should be a privilege for those that earn it. I love Heinlein’s libertarian take on democracy in Starship Troopers. Citizens can vote, civilians can’t.
Interesting.
If I remember rightly the purpose of this, in the movie, was to only allow people who follow orders and who are obedient to authority to vote.
We already have too much of that.
The movie is very very different from the book. The book has a lot more detail on how the system works and the function and value of civic virtue in democracy. Don’t judge Heinlein by that shit show of a movie.
Ah ha.
I'll get back to you after I've read it.
In general, I think democracy works better when the electorate is better educated on how to critically analyse information provided to them. But I have no suggestions how to do that in the UK.
I agree. Educated electorates always produce better functioning societies.
The Terran Federation in the book achieves a greater understanding of democracy through education. All the students have a compulsory subject called history and moral philosophy which goes into all the detail of how 20th century democracies failed (in the book - some of which is frighteningly similar to what’s going on in the west now). This compulsory course serves to instil in the students a real sense of what becoming a citizen will take. And they’re generally discouraged from applying to become a citizen because it’s so hard. They know the cost (potentially their lives) and they’re still willing to go for it. Indoctrination we’d call it.
Ideally yes having a well educated electorate is desirable but I would not want to deny the vote to anyone based on their education.
Absolutely, in the case of a GE.
But imagine how different this country would be if for a referendum, in order for your vote to count, you had to answer 5 rudimentary questions about the subject on which you were voting.
EG. Five basic questions about what the EU is and how it works.
Exactly!!
Let’s remind ourselves that the EU institutions are part of the syllabus in French, German and Spanish schools. Don’t know about the other countries.
Here listening to Farage rants and reading the articles on bendy bananas in the Daily Express is enough to have an opinion on the subject. That’s why I often refer to the U.K. as thickokand.
If the EU institutions were taught in school, maybe people would understand how it works, what it does etc... But no, it’s so much better to listen to our populist cretins to form an opinion. "
So basically in those countries the EU lectures to young minds how great the EU is. Or do they tell the negative side as well? |
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"I think voting should be a privilege for those that earn it. I love Heinlein’s libertarian take on democracy in Starship Troopers. Citizens can vote, civilians can’t. Some I do think are to stupid to vote but you cannot stop it,just raise voting age to 25 should help a bit
It’s not just a question of age. The few brexiters I know are well over 25 and are all as thick as two planks. Some teenagers are knowledgeable about politics. I’d say I’ve never known British youngsters being as knowledgeable about pokitics as they currently are.
Mind you, they have been shafted on so many occasions recently that they’d better be aware and interested: tuition fees with the Lib Dems , tuition fees increase by the nasty party; austerity cuts in Education by the nasty party, exams results scandal by the nasty party, brexit that might prevent some of our students to settle in EU countries by the nasty party, unemployment bound to rise sharply and the superb return to uni last week orchestrated by the nasty party.
The youngsters are taking notice!
The youngsters certainly have been shafted as they have been faced with an unelectable opposition party.!
You need to check what happened in the last election with students and people aged below 30. Your party tends to appeal to the people who are over 60 and who would like their country to be like what it was line 50 years ago. The war, the empire, the monarchy etc... "
aw that war 50 yrs ago lmao |
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By *eroy1000Man
over a year ago
milton keynes |
"I think voting should be a privilege for those that earn it. I love Heinlein’s libertarian take on democracy in Starship Troopers. Citizens can vote, civilians can’t.
Interesting.
If I remember rightly the purpose of this, in the movie, was to only allow people who follow orders and who are obedient to authority to vote.
We already have too much of that.
The movie is very very different from the book. The book has a lot more detail on how the system works and the function and value of civic virtue in democracy. Don’t judge Heinlein by that shit show of a movie.
Ah ha.
I'll get back to you after I've read it.
In general, I think democracy works better when the electorate is better educated on how to critically analyse information provided to them. But I have no suggestions how to do that in the UK.
I agree. Educated electorates always produce better functioning societies.
The Terran Federation in the book achieves a greater understanding of democracy through education. All the students have a compulsory subject called history and moral philosophy which goes into all the detail of how 20th century democracies failed (in the book - some of which is frighteningly similar to what’s going on in the west now). This compulsory course serves to instil in the students a real sense of what becoming a citizen will take. And they’re generally discouraged from applying to become a citizen because it’s so hard. They know the cost (potentially their lives) and they’re still willing to go for it. Indoctrination we’d call it.
Ideally yes having a well educated electorate is desirable but I would not want to deny the vote to anyone based on their education.
Absolutely, in the case of a GE.
But imagine how different this country would be if for a referendum, in order for your vote to count, you had to answer 5 rudimentary questions about the subject on which you were voting.
EG. Five basic questions about what the EU is and how it works.
"
Interesting idea. Is it practised anywhere. Why only at a referendum, why not at a GE. The test may still exclude people who have a valid opinion but maybe illiterate ect |
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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago
upton wirral |
"I think voting should be a privilege for those that earn it. I love Heinlein’s libertarian take on democracy in Starship Troopers. Citizens can vote, civilians can’t. Some I do think are to stupid to vote but you cannot stop it,just raise voting age to 25 should help a bit
Yep as you grow out of stupidity at the age of 25."
You mature and thinking patterns are better I think |
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"I think voting should be a privilege for those that earn it. I love Heinlein’s libertarian take on democracy in Starship Troopers. Citizens can vote, civilians can’t. Some I do think are to stupid to vote but you cannot stop it,just raise voting age to 25 should help a bit
It’s not just a question of age. The few brexiters I know are well over 25 and are all as thick as two planks. Some teenagers are knowledgeable about politics. I’d say I’ve never known British youngsters being as knowledgeable about pokitics as they currently are.
Mind you, they have been shafted on so many occasions recently that they’d better be aware and interested: tuition fees with the Lib Dems , tuition fees increase by the nasty party; austerity cuts in Education by the nasty party, exams results scandal by the nasty party, brexit that might prevent some of our students to settle in EU countries by the nasty party, unemployment bound to rise sharply and the superb return to uni last week orchestrated by the nasty party.
The youngsters are taking notice!
The youngsters certainly have been shafted as they have been faced with an unelectable opposition party.!
You need to check what happened in the last election with students and people aged below 30. Your party tends to appeal to the people who are over 60 and who would like their country to be like what it was line 50 years ago. The war, the empire, the monarchy etc... "
You seem to think you know all about my voting behaviour. Unfortunately you don't. Since being of voting age I have voted red and blue at General Elections and will continue to make my choice on which I think is the best at each GE. |
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By *exy7Man
over a year ago
Bristol |
"I think voting should be a privilege for those that earn it. I love Heinlein’s libertarian take on democracy in Starship Troopers. Citizens can vote, civilians can’t.
Interesting.
If I remember rightly the purpose of this, in the movie, was to only allow people who follow orders and who are obedient to authority to vote.
We already have too much of that.
The movie is very very different from the book. The book has a lot more detail on how the system works and the function and value of civic virtue in democracy. Don’t judge Heinlein by that shit show of a movie.
Ah ha.
I'll get back to you after I've read it.
In general, I think democracy works better when the electorate is better educated on how to critically analyse information provided to them. But I have no suggestions how to do that in the UK.
I agree. Educated electorates always produce better functioning societies.
The Terran Federation in the book achieves a greater understanding of democracy through education. All the students have a compulsory subject called history and moral philosophy which goes into all the detail of how 20th century democracies failed (in the book - some of which is frighteningly similar to what’s going on in the west now). This compulsory course serves to instil in the students a real sense of what becoming a citizen will take. And they’re generally discouraged from applying to become a citizen because it’s so hard. They know the cost (potentially their lives) and they’re still willing to go for it. Indoctrination we’d call it.
Ideally yes having a well educated electorate is desirable but I would not want to deny the vote to anyone based on their education.
Absolutely, in the case of a GE.
But imagine how different this country would be if for a referendum, in order for your vote to count, you had to answer 5 rudimentary questions about the subject on which you were voting.
EG. Five basic questions about what the EU is and how it works.
Exactly!!
Let’s remind ourselves that the EU institutions are part of the syllabus in French, German and Spanish schools. Don’t know about the other countries.
Here listening to Farage rants and reading the articles on bendy bananas in the Daily Express is enough to have an opinion on the subject. That’s why I often refer to the U.K. as thickokand.
If the EU institutions were taught in school, maybe people would understand how it works, what it does etc... But no, it’s so much better to listen to our populist cretins to form an opinion.
So basically in those countries the EU lectures to young minds how great the EU is. Or do they tell the negative side as well?"
France is not ruled by the EU and neither is Germany. If you knew a bit more about the EU, you’d know it doesn’t interfere with education. The EU doesn’t decide what is taught in French schools but why am I not surprised that you could think it does...? |
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"I think voting should be a privilege for those that earn it. I love Heinlein’s libertarian take on democracy in Starship Troopers. Citizens can vote, civilians can’t. Some I do think are to stupid to vote but you cannot stop it,just raise voting age to 25 should help a bit
Yep as you grow out of stupidity at the age of 25.You mature and thinking patterns are better I think"
Hmmm. |
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By *exy7Man
over a year ago
Bristol |
"I think voting should be a privilege for those that earn it. I love Heinlein’s libertarian take on democracy in Starship Troopers. Citizens can vote, civilians can’t. Some I do think are to stupid to vote but you cannot stop it,just raise voting age to 25 should help a bit
It’s not just a question of age. The few brexiters I know are well over 25 and are all as thick as two planks. Some teenagers are knowledgeable about politics. I’d say I’ve never known British youngsters being as knowledgeable about pokitics as they currently are.
Mind you, they have been shafted on so many occasions recently that they’d better be aware and interested: tuition fees with the Lib Dems , tuition fees increase by the nasty party; austerity cuts in Education by the nasty party, exams results scandal by the nasty party, brexit that might prevent some of our students to settle in EU countries by the nasty party, unemployment bound to rise sharply and the superb return to uni last week orchestrated by the nasty party.
The youngsters are taking notice!
The youngsters certainly have been shafted as they have been faced with an unelectable opposition party.!
You need to check what happened in the last election with students and people aged below 30. Your party tends to appeal to the people who are over 60 and who would like their country to be like what it was line 50 years ago. The war, the empire, the monarchy etc... aw that war 50 yrs ago lmao"
Normal to misunderstand a post when you don’t have a clue about punctuation.  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I think voting should be a privilege for those that earn it. I love Heinlein’s libertarian take on democracy in Starship Troopers. Citizens can vote, civilians can’t.
Interesting.
If I remember rightly the purpose of this, in the movie, was to only allow people who follow orders and who are obedient to authority to vote.
We already have too much of that.
The movie is very very different from the book. The book has a lot more detail on how the system works and the function and value of civic virtue in democracy. Don’t judge Heinlein by that shit show of a movie.
Ah ha.
I'll get back to you after I've read it.
In general, I think democracy works better when the electorate is better educated on how to critically analyse information provided to them. But I have no suggestions how to do that in the UK.
I agree. Educated electorates always produce better functioning societies.
The Terran Federation in the book achieves a greater understanding of democracy through education. All the students have a compulsory subject called history and moral philosophy which goes into all the detail of how 20th century democracies failed (in the book - some of which is frighteningly similar to what’s going on in the west now). This compulsory course serves to instil in the students a real sense of what becoming a citizen will take. And they’re generally discouraged from applying to become a citizen because it’s so hard. They know the cost (potentially their lives) and they’re still willing to go for it. Indoctrination we’d call it.
Ideally yes having a well educated electorate is desirable but I would not want to deny the vote to anyone based on their education.
Absolutely, in the case of a GE.
But imagine how different this country would be if for a referendum, in order for your vote to count, you had to answer 5 rudimentary questions about the subject on which you were voting.
EG. Five basic questions about what the EU is and how it works.
Exactly!!
Let’s remind ourselves that the EU institutions are part of the syllabus in French, German and Spanish schools. Don’t know about the other countries.
Here listening to Farage rants and reading the articles on bendy bananas in the Daily Express is enough to have an opinion on the subject. That’s why I often refer to the U.K. as thickokand.
If the EU institutions were taught in school, maybe people would understand how it works, what it does etc... But no, it’s so much better to listen to our populist cretins to form an opinion.
So basically in those countries the EU lectures to young minds how great the EU is. Or do they tell the negative side as well?"
No. The EU doesn't lecture them. They just teach kids what the EU is for and how it functions. Neither the positive or negative sides. |
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By *exy7Man
over a year ago
Bristol |
"I think voting should be a privilege for those that earn it. I love Heinlein’s libertarian take on democracy in Starship Troopers. Citizens can vote, civilians can’t.
Interesting.
If I remember rightly the purpose of this, in the movie, was to only allow people who follow orders and who are obedient to authority to vote.
We already have too much of that.
The movie is very very different from the book. The book has a lot more detail on how the system works and the function and value of civic virtue in democracy. Don’t judge Heinlein by that shit show of a movie.
Ah ha.
I'll get back to you after I've read it.
In general, I think democracy works better when the electorate is better educated on how to critically analyse information provided to them. But I have no suggestions how to do that in the UK.
I agree. Educated electorates always produce better functioning societies.
The Terran Federation in the book achieves a greater understanding of democracy through education. All the students have a compulsory subject called history and moral philosophy which goes into all the detail of how 20th century democracies failed (in the book - some of which is frighteningly similar to what’s going on in the west now). This compulsory course serves to instil in the students a real sense of what becoming a citizen will take. And they’re generally discouraged from applying to become a citizen because it’s so hard. They know the cost (potentially their lives) and they’re still willing to go for it. Indoctrination we’d call it.
Ideally yes having a well educated electorate is desirable but I would not want to deny the vote to anyone based on their education.
Absolutely, in the case of a GE.
But imagine how different this country would be if for a referendum, in order for your vote to count, you had to answer 5 rudimentary questions about the subject on which you were voting.
EG. Five basic questions about what the EU is and how it works.
Exactly!!
Let’s remind ourselves that the EU institutions are part of the syllabus in French, German and Spanish schools. Don’t know about the other countries.
Here listening to Farage rants and reading the articles on bendy bananas in the Daily Express is enough to have an opinion on the subject. That’s why I often refer to the U.K. as thickokand.
If the EU institutions were taught in school, maybe people would understand how it works, what it does etc... But no, it’s so much better to listen to our populist cretins to form an opinion.
So basically in those countries the EU lectures to young minds how great the EU is. Or do they tell the negative side as well?
No. The EU doesn't lecture them. They just teach kids what the EU is for and how it functions. Neither the positive or negative sides."
Exactly. Pupils are taught how the EU works, what the European Commission does or what the European Parliament does. In the U.K., apart from whinging about european ‘technocrats and bureaucrats’ that’s your lot. They obviously don’t debate about the positives of the negatives in schools like you don’t debate about how good or bad the monarchy is in a British school.
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In the interests of allowing people to discuss the actual topic at hand I deleted a lot of posts instead of the entire thread.
If anyone has personal problems with another contributor keep it off the forum please |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Par the course for it to turn to petty mud slinging and insults in the politics forum. It’s what I come to expect.
Still haven’t seen anything that’s convinced me to move from my original position in terms of voting rights having to be earned and not freely given. When it hasn’t been people fighting this has been an interesting discussion. Good topic OP. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Par the course for it to turn to petty mud slinging and insults in the politics forum. It’s what I come to expect.
Still haven’t seen anything that’s convinced me to move from my original position in terms of voting rights having to be earned and not freely given. When it hasn’t been people fighting this has been an interesting discussion. Good topic OP. "
What would be a good way for people to earn the rights to vote?
I guess this would be the interesting and difficult part to determine. |
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"I think voting should be a privilege for those that earn it. I love Heinlein’s libertarian take on democracy in Starship Troopers. Citizens can vote, civilians can’t.
Interesting.
If I remember rightly the purpose of this, in the movie, was to only allow people who follow orders and who are obedient to authority to vote.
We already have too much of that.
The movie is very very different from the book. The book has a lot more detail on how the system works and the function and value of civic virtue in democracy. Don’t judge Heinlein by that shit show of a movie. "
The film was a satire wasnt it? |
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Maybe start to teach politics at school?
Suppose that would be a step towards it.
Universal sufferage is a necessity but when we have a media which is so powerful and a pliable electorate,there are bound to be issues.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Maybe start to teach politics at school?
Suppose that would be a step towards it.
Universal sufferage is a necessity but when we have a media which is so powerful and a pliable electorate,there are bound to be issues.
"
Schools should teach how to critically think about information that's presented to us. To consider the source, the agenda of the source, who owns the source of information and what they could have to gain by publishing it. Look at the data behind the information, and if it accurately supports the conclusions. How scientific the information is, if it's speculative or peer reviewed, who sponsored the research. Etc etc. And how to reach an understanding of the situation, so you don't need to "believe" what's been told.
That's the key. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Heinlein suggests a number of different options to gain citizenship. A minimum of two years federal service for the right to vote. That service can be absolutely anything so long as it’s challenging to you as an individual, with the express purpose of making you always remember how hard you had to fight for your sovereign franchise. Service could be anything from waste disposal or medical research all the way up to military service. And even then the infantry presented in the book is hard to join. They’re not disposable cannon fodder lead by clearly nazi inspired intelligence officers. The books infantry are truly elite, equipped with state of the art armour and weaponry.
The film was a complete injustice to the source material. |
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"Par the course for it to turn to petty mud slinging and insults in the politics forum. It’s what I come to expect.
Still haven’t seen anything that’s convinced me to move from my original position in terms of voting rights having to be earned and not freely given. When it hasn’t been people fighting this has been an interesting discussion. Good topic OP. "
so who and how would decide if it had been earned ? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Par the course for it to turn to petty mud slinging and insults in the politics forum. It’s what I come to expect.
Still haven’t seen anything that’s convinced me to move from my original position in terms of voting rights having to be earned and not freely given. When it hasn’t been people fighting this has been an interesting discussion. Good topic OP. so who and how would decide if it had been earned ?"
See my last post. Or better yet try the book. |
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"Par the course for it to turn to petty mud slinging and insults in the politics forum. It’s what I come to expect.
Still haven’t seen anything that’s convinced me to move from my original position in terms of voting rights having to be earned and not freely given. When it hasn’t been people fighting this has been an interesting discussion. Good topic OP. so who and how would decide if it had been earned ?
See my last post. Or better yet try the book. "
voteing age would be atleast 20 then ? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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In this country we have a posh elite who work in media that have made a career out of taking the piss out of politicians, (quite rightly a lot of the time), which I sometimes feel makes politics and politicians just appear self serving, ridiculous and futile. This demeans and devalues politics and imho stops the general public wanting to be involved as it is perceived as being silly or boring. I also think that most people who are talented enough to be senior politicians would not want the job because of the publicity they would have to endure. So we end up with a bunch of old etonians ruining the country for their own and their friends purposes. |
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"In this country we have a posh elite who work in media that have made a career out of taking the piss out of politicians, (quite rightly a lot of the time), which I sometimes feel makes politics and politicians just appear self serving, ridiculous and futile. This demeans and devalues politics and imho stops the general public wanting to be involved as it is perceived as being silly or boring. I also think that most people who are talented enough to be senior politicians would not want the job because of the publicity they would have to endure. So we end up with a bunch of old etonians ruining the country for their own and their friends purposes. "
Couldnt disagree more.
The reason more people dont go into politics is because they get lampooned on have I got news for you?
What about the previous 100 years? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Par the course for it to turn to petty mud slinging and insults in the politics forum. It’s what I come to expect.
Still haven’t seen anything that’s convinced me to move from my original position in terms of voting rights having to be earned and not freely given. When it hasn’t been people fighting this has been an interesting discussion. Good topic OP. so who and how would decide if it had been earned ?
See my last post. Or better yet try the book. voteing age would be atleast 20 then ?"
The earliest anyone can vote in Heinleins book is 20 yes. Considered an adult at 18 and can enlist for service. Then providing the 2 years service are given, the right to vote would be granted at or about 20 years old (dependant on actual birthday dates etc). |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"In this country we have a posh elite who work in media that have made a career out of taking the piss out of politicians, (quite rightly a lot of the time), which I sometimes feel makes politics and politicians just appear self serving, ridiculous and futile. This demeans and devalues politics and imho stops the general public wanting to be involved as it is perceived as being silly or boring. I also think that most people who are talented enough to be senior politicians would not want the job because of the publicity they would have to endure. So we end up with a bunch of old etonians ruining the country for their own and their friends purposes.
Couldnt disagree more.
The reason more people dont go into politics is because they get lampooned on have I got news for you?
What about the previous 100 years?"
Im with you on this Lionel |
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"Par the course for it to turn to petty mud slinging and insults in the politics forum. It’s what I come to expect.
Still haven’t seen anything that’s convinced me to move from my original position in terms of voting rights having to be earned and not freely given. When it hasn’t been people fighting this has been an interesting discussion. Good topic OP. so who and how would decide if it had been earned ?
See my last post. Or better yet try the book. voteing age would be atleast 20 then ?
The earliest anyone can vote in Heinleins book is 20 yes. Considered an adult at 18 and can enlist for service. Then providing the 2 years service are given, the right to vote would be granted at or about 20 years old (dependant on actual birthday dates etc). "
don’t think labour would be happy with that lol |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Good question.
Lack of adequate applicants due to two world wars a recession and pandemic?
The post war labour government were probably the last truly imaginative and creative one.
It’s been downhill since then.
Playing devils advocate can be fun! |
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