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Scottish independence
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"Fantasy politics ... " Is it really ? There are polls out there saying that as much as 49% favour English independence | |||
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"I am in favour of this and have been for a long time but I think we should now approach it from a different angle - I think people who are in favour of Scottish independence should help in a campaign for English independence - imagine if England became independent from a United Kingdom of Scotland Wales and Northern Ireland - Boris would not be Prime Minister of an independent England therefore he would have to work in the interests of countries he can’t stand !!!! So come on England get the ball rolling and I’d love to help " Interesting idea but why would Boris be PM for the new UK that does not include England? If such a thing happened he would be PM for England. Also not sure it would be called UK anymore without England in it | |||
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"I am in favour of this and have been for a long time but I think we should now approach it from a different angle - I think people who are in favour of Scottish independence should help in a campaign for English independence - imagine if England became independent from a United Kingdom of Scotland Wales and Northern Ireland - Boris would not be Prime Minister of an independent England therefore he would have to work in the interests of countries he can’t stand !!!! So come on England get the ball rolling and I’d love to help " You make no sense at all  | |||
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"Its fair to say we got the chance. Spending loads of money on a repeat performance shouldn't be done. And yes we voted for independence." True. That doesn't mean we'll never get another chance; though that won't be for a long time yet. In the short term (the next 10 years?) no matter how many Scots want independence, no UK government will grant us a referendum if it's likely to reverse the result of the last one. Labour won't want us to go because there's no chance of them winning a UK general election without our votes. The trouble is, under the 'Tory-lite' Blair project, they lost them over a decade ago - and they won't get them back. The Tories won't let us go because they daren't lose the country. They even spend more money per head on us than they do on Londoners - because they know it's a bargain; compared to losing a third of the UK's landmass and its surrounding territorial waters (not to mention somewhere to park Trident's replacement). Even though Scotland becoming independent would guarantee rUK - and England in particular - would become a one-party, Tory, state; they'll still never give us up. This is despite the fact that most people in England really don't care if Scotland becomes independent or not. Indeed, many of them would happily see us go. The real turning point will come when an overwhelming number of Scots want independence - and we're not nearly there yet. Let's face it, the Tories might maintain their current socialist agenda and keep doing the right thing (rather than what they usually do), and independence might become less attractive - especially if they were to replace the current PM and Cabinet with people of competence and integrity. Highly unlikely - but not impossible. Maybe, one day, years from now, Scotland will become independent. IF it does, it will be because the UK government failed to persuade its people that staying part of the UK was in their best interests. | |||
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"I am in favour of this and have been for a long time but I think we should now approach it from a different angle - I think people who are in favour of Scottish independence should help in a campaign for English independence - imagine if England became independent from a United Kingdom of Scotland Wales and Northern Ireland - Boris would not be Prime Minister of an independent England therefore he would have to work in the interests of countries he can’t stand !!!! So come on England get the ball rolling and I’d love to help " A big non event it will not happen | |||
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"Its fair to say we got the chance. Spending loads of money on a repeat performance shouldn't be done. And yes we voted for independence. True. That doesn't mean we'll never get another chance; though that won't be for a long time yet. In the short term (the next 10 years?) no matter how many Scots want independence, no UK government will grant us a referendum if it's likely to reverse the result of the last one. Labour won't want us to go because there's no chance of them winning a UK general election without our votes. The trouble is, under the 'Tory-lite' Blair project, they lost them over a decade ago - and they won't get them back. The Tories won't let us go because they daren't lose the country. They even spend more money per head on us than they do on Londoners - because they know it's a bargain; compared to losing a third of the UK's landmass and its surrounding territorial waters (not to mention somewhere to park Trident's replacement). Even though Scotland becoming independent would guarantee rUK - and England in particular - would become a one-party, Tory, state; they'll still never give us up. This is despite the fact that most people in England really don't care if Scotland becomes independent or not. Indeed, many of them would happily see us go. The real turning point will come when an overwhelming number of Scots want independence - and we're not nearly there yet. Let's face it, the Tories might maintain their current socialist agenda and keep doing the right thing (rather than what they usually do), and independence might become less attractive - especially if they were to replace the current PM and Cabinet with people of competence and integrity. Highly unlikely - but not impossible. Maybe, one day, years from now, Scotland will become independent. IF it does, it will be because the UK government failed to persuade its people that staying part of the UK was in their best interests." I don't think the younger generation are bothered about independence. This will be pivotal to gaining votes in the next 10 or 20 years. | |||
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"If I were Scottish, I'd not want to be tied into this shit show either!" Most of us are just getting on with it like we have done the last four hundred years. | |||
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"Its fair to say we got the chance. Spending loads of money on a repeat performance shouldn't be done. And yes we voted for independence. True. That doesn't mean we'll never get another chance; though that won't be for a long time yet. In the short term (the next 10 years?) no matter how many Scots want independence, no UK government will grant us a referendum if it's likely to reverse the result of the last one. Labour won't want us to go because there's no chance of them winning a UK general election without our votes. The trouble is, under the 'Tory-lite' Blair project, they lost them over a decade ago - and they won't get them back. The Tories won't let us go because they daren't lose the country. They even spend more money per head on us than they do on Londoners - because they know it's a bargain; compared to losing a third of the UK's landmass and its surrounding territorial waters (not to mention somewhere to park Trident's replacement). Even though Scotland becoming independent would guarantee rUK - and England in particular - would become a one-party, Tory, state; they'll still never give us up. This is despite the fact that most people in England really don't care if Scotland becomes independent or not. Indeed, many of them would happily see us go. The real turning point will come when an overwhelming number of Scots want independence - and we're not nearly there yet. Let's face it, the Tories might maintain their current socialist agenda and keep doing the right thing (rather than what they usually do), and independence might become less attractive - especially if they were to replace the current PM and Cabinet with people of competence and integrity. Highly unlikely - but not impossible. Maybe, one day, years from now, Scotland will become independent. IF it does, it will be because the UK government failed to persuade its people that staying part of the UK was in their best interests. I don't think the younger generation are bothered about independence. This will be pivotal to gaining votes in the next 10 or 20 years. " Maybe. Not all of them are apathetic on the issue; either way. A factor just as pivotal, maybe moreso, will be the coming death rates of Unionists vs Yes voters. In any case, nothing's going to happen on Boris' watch and Starmer won't be any different should he become PM; and to do that, he'll have to revive Labour in England. No small task. | |||
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"If I were Scottish, I'd not want to be tied into this shit show either!" I prefer the term "shackled to the rotting corpse of Westminster". LOL It's the form of UK government and the privileged establishment distorting it that's the real problem. For us all. | |||
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"Unfortunately the Scottish Nationalists are like Trumps Republicans. No ideas of any originality, the same old mantra, repeated ad-nauseum. When the questions get down to currency/solvency/sustainable economic plans...They are lost, no ideas even 6 years since it cost them the referendum. " Repeating the same old manta ad-nauseum is what all political parties do. As for currency, solvency and a sustainable economy; there's no reason Scotland couldn't be a successful independent country. It has about the same GDP and population as New Zealand. They manage just fine, on the other side of the planet, thousands of miles from their nearest trade markets, with a dollar worth 52p and similar, though fewer, natural resources. So, why would Scotland not be viable; especially with a land border to the world's 7th largest economy (rUK), plus the prospect of a possible return to EU membership? Would all the other countries hate us so much they wouldn't want to trade with us? They would all be desperate for us to fail? Doesn't seem likely. Btw, call my argument into question all you like - but don't ever fucking compare me to a Trump voter. That's like me calling you fat. Right? | |||
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"Its fair to say we got the chance. Spending loads of money on a repeat performance shouldn't be done. And yes we voted for independence. True. That doesn't mean we'll never get another chance; though that won't be for a long time yet. In the short term (the next 10 years?) no matter how many Scots want independence, no UK government will grant us a referendum if it's likely to reverse the result of the last one. Labour won't want us to go because there's no chance of them winning a UK general election without our votes. The trouble is, under the 'Tory-lite' Blair project, they lost them over a decade ago - and they won't get them back. The Tories won't let us go because they daren't lose the country. They even spend more money per head on us than they do on Londoners - because they know it's a bargain; compared to losing a third of the UK's landmass and its surrounding territorial waters (not to mention somewhere to park Trident's replacement). Even though Scotland becoming independent would guarantee rUK - and England in particular - would become a one-party, Tory, state; they'll still never give us up. This is despite the fact that most people in England really don't care if Scotland becomes independent or not. Indeed, many of them would happily see us go. The real turning point will come when an overwhelming number of Scots want independence - and we're not nearly there yet. Let's face it, the Tories might maintain their current socialist agenda and keep doing the right thing (rather than what they usually do), and independence might become less attractive - especially if they were to replace the current PM and Cabinet with people of competence and integrity. Highly unlikely - but not impossible. Maybe, one day, years from now, Scotland will become independent. IF it does, it will be because the UK government failed to persuade its people that staying part of the UK was in their best interests. I don't think the younger generation are bothered about independence. This will be pivotal to gaining votes in the next 10 or 20 years. Maybe. Not all of them are apathetic on the issue; either way. A factor just as pivotal, maybe moreso, will be the coming death rates of Unionists vs Yes voters. In any case, nothing's going to happen on Boris' watch and Starmer won't be any different should he become PM; and to do that, he'll have to revive Labour in England. No small task." Absolutely. Totally agree.  | |||
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"Fantasy politics ... Is it really ? There are polls out there saying that as much as 49% favour English independence " The 49% you mention probably favour not so much English Independence but are rather just plain fed up with bankrolling Welsh and Scottish ingrates. No disrespect to the majority of Scots and Welsh in this either - they quite rightly know which way their financial bread is buttered. We are ALL better together - this ruddy devolution has been a divisive disaster for OUR nation from start to finish. What is most galling is how this ghastly pandemic has been exploited by the vile egos of the Welsh Labour and SNP Scottish administrations. Just when we all needed common direction and unity. | |||
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"Ahhh how thin skinned some are as well. Allowed to call others traitors or quisling...But woe betide anyone calling out there sheep like mentality...Oh and yes Trump like describes quite a large number of the Nationalists....No? ..What about your rallies all that anti-english pent up emotion...Oh if only we were free of Westminster it would be a land of milk and honey...Oh and NZ has a competent leader and a coherent economic policy. You cannot even tell me what our curency would be....SIX years later and still no further forward in telling sceptics like me "I've never been on a rally or called anyone a traitor. I lived in Yorkshire for 14 years, grew up there. I don't hate the English. I've never suggested independence was easy, either. It is possible, however. Trump-like may, indeed, describe some Nationalists; as it does Unionists (particularly in NI), Brexit/UKIP types, too - but tarring us all with the same brush is lazy and vice versa. You seem to think that there's no way Scotland could have good leadership or a coherent economic policy. Why not? If independence were to happen, why are you so sure it would fail? As for currency; right now, no, I can't tell you what it would be - but there would be one. There would have to be. The notion that a country would function without one, or that the entire world would deny it access to one - of whatever value - is ridiculous. | |||
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"Its fair to say we got the chance. Spending loads of money on a repeat performance shouldn't be done. And yes we voted for independence. True. That doesn't mean we'll never get another chance; though that won't be for a long time yet. In the short term (the next 10 years?) no matter how many Scots want independence, no UK government will grant us a referendum if it's likely to reverse the result of the last one. Labour won't want us to go because there's no chance of them winning a UK general election without our votes. The trouble is, under the 'Tory-lite' Blair project, they lost them over a decade ago - and they won't get them back. The Tories won't let us go because they daren't lose the country. They even spend more money per head on us than they do on Londoners - because they know it's a bargain; compared to losing a third of the UK's landmass and its surrounding territorial waters (not to mention somewhere to park Trident's replacement). Even though Scotland becoming independent would guarantee rUK - and England in particular - would become a one-party, Tory, state; they'll still never give us up. This is despite the fact that most people in England really don't care if Scotland becomes independent or not. Indeed, many of them would happily see us go. The real turning point will come when an overwhelming number of Scots want independence - and we're not nearly there yet. Let's face it, the Tories might maintain their current socialist agenda and keep doing the right thing (rather than what they usually do), and independence might become less attractive - especially if they were to replace the current PM and Cabinet with people of competence and integrity. Highly unlikely - but not impossible. Maybe, one day, years from now, Scotland will become independent. IF it does, it will be because the UK government failed to persuade its people that staying part of the UK was in their best interests. I don't think the younger generation are bothered about independence. This will be pivotal to gaining votes in the next 10 or 20 years. Maybe. Not all of them are apathetic on the issue; either way. A factor just as pivotal, maybe moreso, will be the coming death rates of Unionists vs Yes voters. In any case, nothing's going to happen on Boris' watch and Starmer won't be any different should he become PM; and to do that, he'll have to revive Labour in England. No small task. Absolutely. Totally agree. "As you say, we'll have to get on with it. We've done 400 years, we can do another 40. LOL | |||
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"Well at least we agree that the SNP economic policies are ridiculous. The previous finance secretary Mr McKay would not qualify for a mid level manage ment job in most financial institutions. He visited my place of work and i was astounded at his lack of knowledge of basic economic theory.....Competence is required and lacking in ALL the UK govts " Was he that bad  | |||
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"No surprise here. The Brexiters are all against Scottish independence. Fine for them to take back control despite 68% of Scots being against it but the Scots taking back control doesn’t seem right to them. What a bunch of hypocrites the Tory cult followers are. You’ve got to laugh at their project fear for Scotland. " No surprise really that you drive your tired rhetoric towards the one phrase you think you understand.  | |||
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"If I were Scottish, I'd not want to be tied into this shit show either! Most of us are just getting on with it like we have done the last four hundred years. " Good for you. But if you can just ignore the, bordering on criminal, corruption of this lot, you are a better fella than I! | |||
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"No surprise here. The Brexiters are all against Scottish independence. Fine for them to take back control despite 68% of Scots being against it but the Scots taking back control doesn’t seem right to them. What a bunch of hypocrites the Tory cult followers are. You’ve got to laugh at their project fear for Scotland. No surprise really that you drive your tired rhetoric towards the one phrase you think you understand. "From the king of tired rhetoric  | |||
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"If I were Scottish, I'd not want to be tied into this shit show either! Most of us are just getting on with it like we have done the last four hundred years. Good for you. But if you can just ignore the, bordering on criminal, corruption of this lot, you are a better fella than I! " ....but happily accept the billions of new funding for Scotland being sent from HMG
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"Ahhh how thin skinned some are as well. Allowed to call others traitors or quisling...But woe betide anyone calling out there sheep like mentality...Oh and yes Trump like describes quite a large number of the Nationalists....No? ..What about your rallies all that anti-english pent up emotion...Oh if only we were free of Westminster it would be a land of milk and honey...Oh and NZ has a competent leader and a coherent economic policy. You cannot even tell me what our curency would be....SIX years later and still no further forward in telling sceptics like me
I've never been on a rally or called anyone a traitor. I lived in Yorkshire for 14 years, grew up there. I don't hate the English. I've never suggested independence was easy, either. It is possible, however.
Trump-like may, indeed, describe some Nationalists; as it does Unionists (particularly in NI), Brexit/UKIP types, too - but tarring us all with the same brush is lazy and vice versa.
You seem to think that there's no way Scotland could have good leadership or a coherent economic policy. Why not? If independence were to happen, why are you so sure it would fail?
As for currency; right now, no, I can't tell you what it would be - but there would be one. There would have to be. The notion that a country would function without one, or that the entire world would deny it access to one - of whatever value - is ridiculous. "If an independent Scotland joined the EU they would have no choice but to have the euro as their currency. What is used while awaiting membership is the harder decision.they can use international currency like the pound but as the bank of England stated during the referendum England would not be their guarantor so they will need to hold vast reserves themselves. If they did join the EU they then create a border and possible tariffs to the rest of the UK | |||
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"No surprise here. The Brexiters are all against Scottish independence. Fine for them to take back control despite 68% of Scots being against it but the Scots taking back control doesn’t seem right to them. What a bunch of hypocrites the Tory cult followers are. You’ve got to laugh at their project fear for Scotland. No surprise really that you drive your tired rhetoric towards the one phrase you think you understand. "You might want to explain your logic and dismantle my argument instead of posting your 5 year old comment. | |||
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"I think a certain politics fatigue is setting in........Dont a lot of us long for a time of stability, yes so much is wrong with the UK .....But an awful lot more is alright....There is a lot to be said for unions...Of all kinds it engenders a collective responsibility and in better times a sense of purpose. The peddlers of the demise of the UK are the usual malcontents and ambitious politicians wanting to make a name for themselves. All while they are snout down in the trough...Isnt that right Nicola "Very true | |||
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"If I were Scottish, I'd not want to be tied into this shit show either! Most of us are just getting on with it like we have done the last four hundred years. Good for you. But if you can just ignore the, bordering on criminal, corruption of this lot, you are a better fella than I! " Even if there is criminal corruption, what is going to happen? Probably nothing. Being a Scot and living in England I dont see the advantage of being independent yet. Until Scotland get a stable goverment with MP's that can drive policies that are credible, at present they are just playing tit for tat with Westminster. Nicola is good. But she lacks the backing from MSP's, hence why spotlight is always on her. Get the foundations sorted before building anything. | |||
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" Until Scotland get a stable goverment with MP's that can drive policies that are credible, at present they are just playing tit for tat with Westminster. " this | |||
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"Well at least we agree that the SNP economic policies are ridiculous. The previous finance secretary Mr McKay would not qualify for a mid level manage ment job in most financial institutions. He visited my place of work and i was astounded at his lack of knowledge of basic economic theory.....Competence is required and lacking in ALL the UK govts " I agree with your last sentence, at least. I want an independent Scotland but it's a long way off from happening. It is, however, possible. The criticisms you make of it - even the valid ones - can be overcome. Can't they? If the current situation is the best we can hope for, that's a bleak outlook; and it's no surprise many Scots want to try something different. If, eventually, in 20 or 30 years, the majority of Scots want independence - for all its difficulties - should it be denied to them? | |||
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"I cant see the now capital of Scotland being handed back even if they did get independence. But in saying that I've always thought Perth the original capitol, is the perfect location. " At least they returned the Stone to Scotland  ... but sadly it was not housed in its rightful place in Scone (Perth) | |||
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"Even if there is criminal corruption, what is going to happen? Probably nothing. Being a Scot and living in England I dont see the advantage of being independent yet. Until Scotland get a stable goverment with MP's that can drive policies that are credible, at present they are just playing tit for tat with Westminster. Nicola is good. But she lacks the backing from MSP's, hence why spotlight is always on her. Get the foundations sorted before building anything." Good point. One reason we rarely have stable government in Scotland is because it's a democracy that uses PR. It's not perfect but it's more representative of the way the Scots actually vote. When Labour set the Scottish Parliament up, the PR system was employed to make sure a minority party like the SNP would never be in power up here. They were so arrogant, they never considered the possibility of a minority SNP government. The first time it happened, Labour moaned and whined at us so much for betraying them, that they actually handed the SNP a majority in 2011. Something that was never supposed to happen. Now, the SNP have a minority government again. Clearly, this indicates that the majority of Scots are still not ready to leave the Union; which is fair enough. However, they find themselves in the same position the current UK government, albeit elected via a less representative system - the majority of voters didn't vote for them but they are, nonetheless, the ones in power. I can't see independence for Scotland happening in my lifetime - but I don't see it as impossible. As long as the majority want it. If they don't, it shouldn't happen. If they do, it should. We wouldn't even be talking about it if the UK government were doing a better job of making the Union feel united. Something they can't even do when all of us are threatened by the same things. Like I said in an earlier post; hopefully, they'll stay on their socialist agenda and work for everyone's benefit. | |||
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"I cant see the now capital of Scotland being handed back even if they did get independence. But in saying that I've always thought Perth the original capitol, is the perfect location. At least they returned the Stone to Scotland ... but sadly it was not housed in its rightful place in Scone (Perth) "We don't know for sure that's the actual SoD. The real one could be out there in some peat bog. LOL | |||
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"I cant see the now capital of Scotland being handed back even if they did get independence. But in saying that I've always thought Perth the original capitol, is the perfect location. At least they returned the Stone to Scotland ... but sadly it was not housed in its rightful place in Scone (Perth) "The Stone of Destiny. I remember going to see it and thinking, "is that it" | |||
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"I cant see the now capital of Scotland being handed back even if they did get independence. But in saying that I've always thought Perth the original capitol, is the perfect location. At least they returned the Stone to Scotland ... but sadly it was not housed in its rightful place in Scone (Perth)
We don't know for sure that's the actual SoD. The real one could be out there in some peat bog. LOL"Hahahah very true , and I remember having the same thought when I watched with delight as it crossed over the T bridge back in 1996. | |||
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"Ahhh how thin skinned some are as well. Allowed to call others traitors or quisling...But woe betide anyone calling out there sheep like mentality...Oh and yes Trump like describes quite a large number of the Nationalists....No? ..What about your rallies all that anti-english pent up emotion...Oh if only we were free of Westminster it would be a land of milk and honey...Oh and NZ has a competent leader and a coherent economic policy. You cannot even tell me what our curency would be....SIX years later and still no further forward in telling sceptics like me
I've never been on a rally or called anyone a traitor. I lived in Yorkshire for 14 years, grew up there. I don't hate the English. I've never suggested independence was easy, either. It is possible, however.
Trump-like may, indeed, describe some Nationalists; as it does Unionists (particularly in NI), Brexit/UKIP types, too - but tarring us all with the same brush is lazy and vice versa.
You seem to think that there's no way Scotland could have good leadership or a coherent economic policy. Why not? If independence were to happen, why are you so sure it would fail?
As for currency; right now, no, I can't tell you what it would be - but there would be one. There would have to be. The notion that a country would function without one, or that the entire world would deny it access to one - of whatever value - is ridiculous. "Let's hope if they do go it alone they manage their finances better than last time before the union. Mismanagement of their finances back then gave England the opportunity form the union in its control including forbidding the monarch being Catholic which is still in place today | |||
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"Ahhh how thin skinned some are as well. Allowed to call others traitors or quisling...But woe betide anyone calling out there sheep like mentality...Oh and yes Trump like describes quite a large number of the Nationalists....No? ..What about your rallies all that anti-english pent up emotion...Oh if only we were free of Westminster it would be a land of milk and honey...Oh and NZ has a competent leader and a coherent economic policy. You cannot even tell me what our curency would be....SIX years later and still no further forward in telling sceptics like me
I've never been on a rally or called anyone a traitor. I lived in Yorkshire for 14 years, grew up there. I don't hate the English. I've never suggested independence was easy, either. It is possible, however.
Trump-like may, indeed, describe some Nationalists; as it does Unionists (particularly in NI), Brexit/UKIP types, too - but tarring us all with the same brush is lazy and vice versa.
You seem to think that there's no way Scotland could have good leadership or a coherent economic policy. Why not? If independence were to happen, why are you so sure it would fail?
As for currency; right now, no, I can't tell you what it would be - but there would be one. There would have to be. The notion that a country would function without one, or that the entire world would deny it access to one - of whatever value - is ridiculous.
Let's hope if they do go it alone they manage their finances better than last time before the union. Mismanagement of their finances back then gave England the opportunity form the union in its control including forbidding the monarch being Catholic which is still in place today"Lol. It was only 300 years ago. Are you trying to spread your knowledge or to make a proper argument? Let’s hope that after Brexit, Britain will manage its finances better than before joining the EU when it had to be bailed out by the IMF, the way South American or African countries are bailed out. And it was less than 50 years ago. | |||
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"Mismanagement of finance- ‘they’ were bought and sold for English gold, The ruling elite were basically bribed by England to accept the unoon Catholic succession has been in place for several years " Exactly. Scotland was sold off. | |||
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"Ahhh how thin skinned some are as well. Allowed to call others traitors or quisling...But woe betide anyone calling out there sheep like mentality...Oh and yes Trump like describes quite a large number of the Nationalists....No? ..What about your rallies all that anti-english pent up emotion...Oh if only we were free of Westminster it would be a land of milk and honey...Oh and NZ has a competent leader and a coherent economic policy. You cannot even tell me what our curency would be....SIX years later and still no further forward in telling sceptics like me
I've never been on a rally or called anyone a traitor. I lived in Yorkshire for 14 years, grew up there. I don't hate the English. I've never suggested independence was easy, either. It is possible, however.
Trump-like may, indeed, describe some Nationalists; as it does Unionists (particularly in NI), Brexit/UKIP types, too - but tarring us all with the same brush is lazy and vice versa.
You seem to think that there's no way Scotland could have good leadership or a coherent economic policy. Why not? If independence were to happen, why are you so sure it would fail?
As for currency; right now, no, I can't tell you what it would be - but there would be one. There would have to be. The notion that a country would function without one, or that the entire world would deny it access to one - of whatever value - is ridiculous.
Let's hope if they do go it alone they manage their finances better than last time before the union. Mismanagement of their finances back then gave England the opportunity form the union in its control including forbidding the monarch being Catholic which is still in place today
Lol. It was only 300 years ago. Are you trying to spread your knowledge or to make a proper argument?
Let’s hope that after Brexit, Britain will manage its finances better than before joining the EU when it had to be bailed out by the IMF, the way South American or African countries are bailed out. And it was less than 50 years ago. "Remind me which party that was | |||
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"Ahhh how thin skinned some are as well. Allowed to call others traitors or quisling...But woe betide anyone calling out there sheep like mentality...Oh and yes Trump like describes quite a large number of the Nationalists....No? ..What about your rallies all that anti-english pent up emotion...Oh if only we were free of Westminster it would be a land of milk and honey...Oh and NZ has a competent leader and a coherent economic policy. You cannot even tell me what our curency would be....SIX years later and still no further forward in telling sceptics like me
I've never been on a rally or called anyone a traitor. I lived in Yorkshire for 14 years, grew up there. I don't hate the English. I've never suggested independence was easy, either. It is possible, however.
Trump-like may, indeed, describe some Nationalists; as it does Unionists (particularly in NI), Brexit/UKIP types, too - but tarring us all with the same brush is lazy and vice versa.
You seem to think that there's no way Scotland could have good leadership or a coherent economic policy. Why not? If independence were to happen, why are you so sure it would fail?
As for currency; right now, no, I can't tell you what it would be - but there would be one. There would have to be. The notion that a country would function without one, or that the entire world would deny it access to one - of whatever value - is ridiculous.
Let's hope if they do go it alone they manage their finances better than last time before the union. Mismanagement of their finances back then gave England the opportunity form the union in its control including forbidding the monarch being Catholic which is still in place today
Lol. It was only 300 years ago. Are you trying to spread your knowledge or to make a proper argument?
Let’s hope that after Brexit, Britain will manage its finances better than before joining the EU when it had to be bailed out by the IMF, the way South American or African countries are bailed out. And it was less than 50 years ago. "Hence why I said lets hope they manage it better than last time. people on here were all to happy to talk about events hundreds of years ago when it suited like the BLM threads. | |||
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"Being independent is the norm for any nation/state. It is inevitable for Scotland, and that will, in turn, lead to the UK disintegrating. All of the nations will be the better for that. Imagine having a modern parliament with a written constitution? Radical eh? " If that's the case there are many countries that will split around the world. If and when another referendum happens and they choose to leave then all the best to them | |||
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"Being independent is the norm for any nation/state. It is inevitable for Scotland, and that will, in turn, lead to the UK disintegrating. All of the nations will be the better for that. Imagine having a modern parliament with a written constitution? Radical eh? " Try telling that to brexit remainers. | |||
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"I do not agree it is inevitable at all. Political cycles are always alternating . I feel most of the independance movement is not so much for the SNP as a reaction against the demonised Conservatives and the awful scottish Labour party who seem to elect one awful leader after another. It will take a younger charismatic Labour leader to come along and the scene will change.." The red tories are an irrelevance in scotland now they will never be forgiven for backing the tories in 2014 | |||
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"Lets hope the next indi ref the right questions are ask for example what money they will adopt how will they raise enough income and the truth about the chance of rejoining the eu." A referendum which tells the truth? Perhaps we could try that one day. | |||
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"Lets hope the next indi ref the right questions are ask for example what money they will adopt how will they raise enough income and the truth about the chance of rejoining the eu. A referendum which tells the truth? Perhaps we could try that one day." but if you lost again wtf would you have to moan about lol | |||
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"I do not agree it is inevitable at all. Political cycles are always alternating . I feel most of the independance movement is not so much for the SNP as a reaction against the demonised Conservatives and the awful scottish Labour party who seem to elect one awful leader after another. It will take a younger charismatic Labour leader to come along and the scene will change.." Agreed. It is by no means inevitable - but it is becoming increasingly likely. As I've said before, it's not impossible either. SKS is, obviously, a younger, more charismatic, far more capable Labour leader. However, he has to get the voters in England to believe in him, before chasing votes up here. To do that, he's going to have to go 'Tory-lite', like Blair did. That's not going to get him anywhere up here. The reason Labour lost Scotland is that they didn't care about our votes anymore. With the FPTP voting system, our vote is irrelevant to determining the outcome of a UK GE. So, they took us for granted - as they did with the North of England and the Midlands. Hell mend them. They learned nothing from what happened up here. The Tories really don't care about us at all - just the land we live on and the waters round us. There's no reason they should, to be fair, we've been rejecting them and their polices for well over 60 years - but Labour? They really fucked up - and they continue to pay the price. So, here we are. The FPTP system is partly to do with the fact that the SNP are the 3rd largest party in the UK Parliament; but it's not the only reason. In Scotland, the SNP are the only real alternative to 'Tory-lite' or Tory. They are as popular in Scotland as the Tories are in England. Neither party enjoys majority support, obviously. People don't vote SNP out of blind loyalty - as you are so keen to suggest. Unless you're prepared to concede that, in Scotland, Labour voters used to do the same. As you say, nothing is inevitable - things change; when enough people want them to. There hasn't always been a UK and there doesn't always need to be one. If, one day, there weren't, the world wouldn't care. Consider this, though; in an independent Scotland, there's a very good chance of a Labour Government being a regular thing. | |||
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"Lets hope the next IndyRef the right questions are asked. For example, what money will they (Scotland) adopt? How will they raise enough income? The truth about the chance of rejoining the EU?" It's interesting you're prepared to concede the possibility of an IndyRef2. I reckon it'll happen - but not for at least a decade. As far as your questions go; the first two were asked a lot, in 2014. There was no answer to the first one, since the Treasury ruled out Sterling. There still isn't, yet - but the notion that a sovereign state won't have any kind of currency is ridiculous. So, it'll be a question of what value it has. The NZ$ is worth 52p, on a GDP and resources much the same as Scotland's. Raising enough income? Taxation and borrowing. It's how all the other countries do it. Unless you mean to suggest that Scotland cannot, or will not be allowed to do either; there's no reason we can't run at a loss. Many countries do; although Iceland runs a small surplus - just 12 years after their bankers fucked the entire country. Is Scotland really incapable of making a similar effort? As for rejoining the EU. Who knows? The Spanish might get bribed into letting us join. In any case, we were dragged out after being told, in 2014, it was the right thing to do to stay in the EU. I guess, were we to ever become independent, there would be nothing to stop us from reapplying every few years. | |||
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"Lets hope the next IndyRef the right questions are asked. For example, what money will they (Scotland) adopt? How will they raise enough income? The truth about the chance of rejoining the EU? It's interesting you're prepared to concede the possibility of an IndyRef2. I reckon it'll happen - but not for at least a decade. As far as your questions go; the first two were asked a lot, in 2014. There was no answer to the first one, since the Treasury ruled out Sterling. There still isn't, yet - but the notion that a sovereign state won't have any kind of currency is ridiculous. So, it'll be a question of what value it has. The NZ$ is worth 52p, on a GDP and resources much the same as Scotland's. Raising enough income? Taxation and borrowing. It's how all the other countries do it. Unless you mean to suggest that Scotland cannot, or will not be allowed to do either; there's no reason we can't run at a loss. Many countries do; although Iceland runs a small surplus - just 12 years after their bankers fucked the entire country. Is Scotland really incapable of making a similar effort? As for rejoining the EU. Who knows? The Spanish might get bribed into letting us join. In any case, we were dragged out after being told, in 2014, it was the right thing to do to stay in the EU. I guess, were we to ever become independent, there would be nothing to stop us from reapplying every few years." The lack of a plan for a currency was amazing during the referendum and suspect it cost a lot of votes . If they adopt a currency which is perfectly possible they need to build huge reserves. The borrowing is done on the international market, with no track record, no own currency and reliant on their own reserves they can borrow but it could be at a higher rate than normally. As others say Spain may raise objections. Not sure who will bribe them,surely not the EU. All that said if the Scots vote for it they should get it | |||
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"Lets hope the next IndyRef the right questions are asked. For example, what money will they (Scotland) adopt? How will they raise enough income? The truth about the chance of rejoining the EU? It's interesting you're prepared to concede the possibility of an IndyRef2. I reckon it'll happen - but not for at least a decade. As far as your questions go; the first two were asked a lot, in 2014. There was no answer to the first one, since the Treasury ruled out Sterling. There still isn't, yet - but the notion that a sovereign state won't have any kind of currency is ridiculous. So, it'll be a question of what value it has. The NZ$ is worth 52p, on a GDP and resources much the same as Scotland's. Raising enough income? Taxation and borrowing. It's how all the other countries do it. Unless you mean to suggest that Scotland cannot, or will not be allowed to do either; there's no reason we can't run at a loss. Many countries do; although Iceland runs a small surplus - just 12 years after their bankers fucked the entire country. Is Scotland really incapable of making a similar effort? As for rejoining the EU. Who knows? The Spanish might get bribed into letting us join. In any case, we were dragged out after being told, in 2014, it was the right thing to do to stay in the EU. I guess, were we to ever become independent, there would be nothing to stop us from reapplying every few years." The question of income was because you have to meet a certain criteria to join the eu money wise and i cannot see them fiddling the books again like they did with spain and italy.If Scotland wants independence im all for it,its the peoples choice just like Brexit was but i think the snp need to be honest about their chances and how long it would take to re join the eu. | |||
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"I would vote for it - except I couldn't stand to see 'Nicky Queen of Scots'. Actually. No I wouldn't vote for it. Nope. No. Nadda. But she is the queen of scots " | |||
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"Lets hope the next IndyRef the right questions are asked. For example, what money will they (Scotland) adopt? How will they raise enough income? The truth about the chance of rejoining the EU? It's interesting you're prepared to concede the possibility of an IndyRef2. I reckon it'll happen - but not for at least a decade. As far as your questions go; the first two were asked a lot, in 2014. There was no answer to the first one, since the Treasury ruled out Sterling. There still isn't, yet - but the notion that a sovereign state won't have any kind of currency is ridiculous. So, it'll be a question of what value it has. The NZ$ is worth 52p, on a GDP and resources much the same as Scotland's. Raising enough income? Taxation and borrowing. It's how all the other countries do it. Unless you mean to suggest that Scotland cannot, or will not be allowed to do either; there's no reason we can't run at a loss. Many countries do; although Iceland runs a small surplus - just 12 years after their bankers fucked the entire country. Is Scotland really incapable of making a similar effort? As for rejoining the EU. Who knows? The Spanish might get bribed into letting us join. In any case, we were dragged out after being told, in 2014, it was the right thing to do to stay in the EU. I guess, were we to ever become independent, there would be nothing to stop us from reapplying every few years.The question of income was because you have to meet a certain criteria to join the eu money wise and i cannot see them fiddling the books again like they did with spain and italy.If Scotland wants independence im all for it,its the peoples choice just like Brexit was but i think the snp need to be honest about their chances and how long it would take to re join the eu." If they are so broke why are we so keen not to lose them.? | |||
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" If they are so broke why are we so keen not to lose them.?" Not everything is about money. | |||
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"Lets hope the next IndyRef the right questions are asked. For example, what money will they (Scotland) adopt? How will they raise enough income? The truth about the chance of rejoining the EU? It's interesting you're prepared to concede the possibility of an IndyRef2. I reckon it'll happen - but not for at least a decade. As far as your questions go; the first two were asked a lot, in 2014. There was no answer to the first one, since the Treasury ruled out Sterling. There still isn't, yet - but the notion that a sovereign state won't have any kind of currency is ridiculous. So, it'll be a question of what value it has. The NZ$ is worth 52p, on a GDP and resources much the same as Scotland's. Raising enough income? Taxation and borrowing. It's how all the other countries do it. Unless you mean to suggest that Scotland cannot, or will not be allowed to do either; there's no reason we can't run at a loss. Many countries do; although Iceland runs a small surplus - just 12 years after their bankers fucked the entire country. Is Scotland really incapable of making a similar effort? As for rejoining the EU. Who knows? The Spanish might get bribed into letting us join. In any case, we were dragged out after being told, in 2014, it was the right thing to do to stay in the EU. I guess, were we to ever become independent, there would be nothing to stop us from reapplying every few years.The question of income was because you have to meet a certain criteria to join the eu money wise and i cannot see them fiddling the books again like they did with spain and italy.If Scotland wants independence im all for it,its the peoples choice just like Brexit was but i think the snp need to be honest about their chances and how long it would take to re join the eu. If they are so broke why are we so keen not to lose them.?" The scottish goverment gives the uk treasury 68billion and gets 35billion back so we are not broke thats just a Westminster myth | |||
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"Lets hope the next IndyRef the right questions are asked. For example, what money will they (Scotland) adopt? How will they raise enough income? The truth about the chance of rejoining the EU? It's interesting you're prepared to concede the possibility of an IndyRef2. I reckon it'll happen - but not for at least a decade. As far as your questions go; the first two were asked a lot, in 2014. There was no answer to the first one, since the Treasury ruled out Sterling. There still isn't, yet - but the notion that a sovereign state won't have any kind of currency is ridiculous. So, it'll be a question of what value it has. The NZ$ is worth 52p, on a GDP and resources much the same as Scotland's. Raising enough income? Taxation and borrowing. It's how all the other countries do it. Unless you mean to suggest that Scotland cannot, or will not be allowed to do either; there's no reason we can't run at a loss. Many countries do; although Iceland runs a small surplus - just 12 years after their bankers fucked the entire country. Is Scotland really incapable of making a similar effort? As for rejoining the EU. Who knows? The Spanish might get bribed into letting us join. In any case, we were dragged out after being told, in 2014, it was the right thing to do to stay in the EU. I guess, were we to ever become independent, there would be nothing to stop us from reapplying every few years.The question of income was because you have to meet a certain criteria to join the eu money wise and i cannot see them fiddling the books again like they did with spain and italy.If Scotland wants independence im all for it,its the peoples choice just like Brexit was but i think the snp need to be honest about their chances and how long it would take to re join the eu. If they are so broke why are we so keen not to lose them.? The scottish goverment gives the uk treasury 68billion and gets 35billion back so we are not broke thats just a Westminster myth " The official figures for 2018/ 2019 is a 12.6 billion deficit. | |||
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" If they are so broke why are we so keen not to lose them.? Not everything is about money." I'm not the one banging on about how much we sub them | |||
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"Lets hope the next IndyRef the right questions are asked. For example, what money will they (Scotland) adopt? How will they raise enough income? The truth about the chance of rejoining the EU? It's interesting you're prepared to concede the possibility of an IndyRef2. I reckon it'll happen - but not for at least a decade. As far as your questions go; the first two were asked a lot, in 2014. There was no answer to the first one, since the Treasury ruled out Sterling. There still isn't, yet - but the notion that a sovereign state won't have any kind of currency is ridiculous. So, it'll be a question of what value it has. The NZ$ is worth 52p, on a GDP and resources much the same as Scotland's. Raising enough income? Taxation and borrowing. It's how all the other countries do it. Unless you mean to suggest that Scotland cannot, or will not be allowed to do either; there's no reason we can't run at a loss. Many countries do; although Iceland runs a small surplus - just 12 years after their bankers fucked the entire country. Is Scotland really incapable of making a similar effort? As for rejoining the EU. Who knows? The Spanish might get bribed into letting us join. In any case, we were dragged out after being told, in 2014, it was the right thing to do to stay in the EU. I guess, were we to ever become independent, there would be nothing to stop us from reapplying every few years.The question of income was because you have to meet a certain criteria to join the eu money wise and i cannot see them fiddling the books again like they did with spain and italy.If Scotland wants independence im all for it,its the peoples choice just like Brexit was but i think the snp need to be honest about their chances and how long it would take to re join the eu. If they are so broke why are we so keen not to lose them.? The scottish goverment gives the uk treasury 68billion and gets 35billion back so we are not broke thats just a Westminster myth " Thought so. | |||
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"Lets hope the next IndyRef the right questions are asked. For example, what money will they (Scotland) adopt? How will they raise enough income? The truth about the chance of rejoining the EU? It's interesting you're prepared to concede the possibility of an IndyRef2. I reckon it'll happen - but not for at least a decade. As far as your questions go; the first two were asked a lot, in 2014. There was no answer to the first one, since the Treasury ruled out Sterling. There still isn't, yet - but the notion that a sovereign state won't have any kind of currency is ridiculous. So, it'll be a question of what value it has. The NZ$ is worth 52p, on a GDP and resources much the same as Scotland's. Raising enough income? Taxation and borrowing. It's how all the other countries do it. Unless you mean to suggest that Scotland cannot, or will not be allowed to do either; there's no reason we can't run at a loss. Many countries do; although Iceland runs a small surplus - just 12 years after their bankers fucked the entire country. Is Scotland really incapable of making a similar effort? As for rejoining the EU. Who knows? The Spanish might get bribed into letting us join. In any case, we were dragged out after being told, in 2014, it was the right thing to do to stay in the EU. I guess, were we to ever become independent, there would be nothing to stop us from reapplying every few years.The question of income was because you have to meet a certain criteria to join the eu money wise and i cannot see them fiddling the books again like they did with spain and italy.If Scotland wants independence im all for it,its the peoples choice just like Brexit was but i think the snp need to be honest about their chances and how long it would take to re join the eu. If they are so broke why are we so keen not to lose them.? The scottish goverment gives the uk treasury 68billion and gets 35billion back so we are not broke thats just a Westminster myth Thought so." Sadly that's not the full story | |||
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"Lets hope the next IndyRef the right questions are asked. For example, what money will they (Scotland) adopt? How will they raise enough income? The truth about the chance of rejoining the EU? It's interesting you're prepared to concede the possibility of an IndyRef2. I reckon it'll happen - but not for at least a decade. As far as your questions go; the first two were asked a lot, in 2014. There was no answer to the first one, since the Treasury ruled out Sterling. There still isn't, yet - but the notion that a sovereign state won't have any kind of currency is ridiculous. So, it'll be a question of what value it has. The NZ$ is worth 52p, on a GDP and resources much the same as Scotland's. Raising enough income? Taxation and borrowing. It's how all the other countries do it. Unless you mean to suggest that Scotland cannot, or will not be allowed to do either; there's no reason we can't run at a loss. Many countries do; although Iceland runs a small surplus - just 12 years after their bankers fucked the entire country. Is Scotland really incapable of making a similar effort? As for rejoining the EU. Who knows? The Spanish might get bribed into letting us join. In any case, we were dragged out after being told, in 2014, it was the right thing to do to stay in the EU. I guess, were we to ever become independent, there would be nothing to stop us from reapplying every few years.The question of income was because you have to meet a certain criteria to join the eu money wise and i cannot see them fiddling the books again like they did with spain and italy.If Scotland wants independence im all for it,its the peoples choice just like Brexit was but i think the snp need to be honest about their chances and how long it would take to re join the eu. If they are so broke why are we so keen not to lose them.? The scottish goverment gives the uk treasury 68billion and gets 35billion back so we are not broke thats just a Westminster myth The official figures for 2018/ 2019 is a 12.6 billion deficit. "
https://www.deliveringforscotland.gov.uk/scotland-in-the-uk/public-spending/ | |||
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"Lets hope the next IndyRef the right questions are asked. For example, what money will they (Scotland) adopt? How will they raise enough income? The truth about the chance of rejoining the EU? It's interesting you're prepared to concede the possibility of an IndyRef2. I reckon it'll happen - but not for at least a decade. As far as your questions go; the first two were asked a lot, in 2014. There was no answer to the first one, since the Treasury ruled out Sterling. There still isn't, yet - but the notion that a sovereign state won't have any kind of currency is ridiculous. So, it'll be a question of what value it has. The NZ$ is worth 52p, on a GDP and resources much the same as Scotland's. Raising enough income? Taxation and borrowing. It's how all the other countries do it. Unless you mean to suggest that Scotland cannot, or will not be allowed to do either; there's no reason we can't run at a loss. Many countries do; although Iceland runs a small surplus - just 12 years after their bankers fucked the entire country. Is Scotland really incapable of making a similar effort? As for rejoining the EU. Who knows? The Spanish might get bribed into letting us join. In any case, we were dragged out after being told, in 2014, it was the right thing to do to stay in the EU. I guess, were we to ever become independent, there would be nothing to stop us from reapplying every few years.The question of income was because you have to meet a certain criteria to join the eu money wise and i cannot see them fiddling the books again like they did with spain and italy.If Scotland wants independence im all for it,its the peoples choice just like Brexit was but i think the snp need to be honest about their chances and how long it would take to re join the eu. If they are so broke why are we so keen not to lose them.? The scottish goverment gives the uk treasury 68billion and gets 35billion back so we are not broke thats just a Westminster myth The official figures for 2018/ 2019 is a 12.6 billion deficit. " Think youl find thats part of Westminsters deficit as scotland gets lumped with a percentage of what Westminster borrows | |||
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"Lets hope the next IndyRef the right questions are asked. For example, what money will they (Scotland) adopt? How will they raise enough income? The truth about the chance of rejoining the EU? It's interesting you're prepared to concede the possibility of an IndyRef2. I reckon it'll happen - but not for at least a decade. As far as your questions go; the first two were asked a lot, in 2014. There was no answer to the first one, since the Treasury ruled out Sterling. There still isn't, yet - but the notion that a sovereign state won't have any kind of currency is ridiculous. So, it'll be a question of what value it has. The NZ$ is worth 52p, on a GDP and resources much the same as Scotland's. Raising enough income? Taxation and borrowing. It's how all the other countries do it. Unless you mean to suggest that Scotland cannot, or will not be allowed to do either; there's no reason we can't run at a loss. Many countries do; although Iceland runs a small surplus - just 12 years after their bankers fucked the entire country. Is Scotland really incapable of making a similar effort? As for rejoining the EU. Who knows? The Spanish might get bribed into letting us join. In any case, we were dragged out after being told, in 2014, it was the right thing to do to stay in the EU. I guess, were we to ever become independent, there would be nothing to stop us from reapplying every few years.The question of income was because you have to meet a certain criteria to join the eu money wise and i cannot see them fiddling the books again like they did with spain and italy.If Scotland wants independence im all for it,its the peoples choice just like Brexit was but i think the snp need to be honest about their chances and how long it would take to re join the eu. If they are so broke why are we so keen not to lose them.? The scottish goverment gives the uk treasury 68billion and gets 35billion back so we are not broke thats just a Westminster myth Thought so. Sadly that's not the full story" Oh pls give us the full story | |||
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"Lets hope the next IndyRef the right questions are asked. For example, what money will they (Scotland) adopt? How will they raise enough income? The truth about the chance of rejoining the EU? It's interesting you're prepared to concede the possibility of an IndyRef2. I reckon it'll happen - but not for at least a decade. As far as your questions go; the first two were asked a lot, in 2014. There was no answer to the first one, since the Treasury ruled out Sterling. There still isn't, yet - but the notion that a sovereign state won't have any kind of currency is ridiculous. So, it'll be a question of what value it has. The NZ$ is worth 52p, on a GDP and resources much the same as Scotland's. Raising enough income? Taxation and borrowing. It's how all the other countries do it. Unless you mean to suggest that Scotland cannot, or will not be allowed to do either; there's no reason we can't run at a loss. Many countries do; although Iceland runs a small surplus - just 12 years after their bankers fucked the entire country. Is Scotland really incapable of making a similar effort? As for rejoining the EU. Who knows? The Spanish might get bribed into letting us join. In any case, we were dragged out after being told, in 2014, it was the right thing to do to stay in the EU. I guess, were we to ever become independent, there would be nothing to stop us from reapplying every few years.The question of income was because you have to meet a certain criteria to join the eu money wise and i cannot see them fiddling the books again like they did with spain and italy.If Scotland wants independence im all for it,its the peoples choice just like Brexit was but i think the snp need to be honest about their chances and how long it would take to re join the eu. If they are so broke why are we so keen not to lose them.? The scottish goverment gives the uk treasury 68billion and gets 35billion back so we are not broke thats just a Westminster myth The official figures for 2018/ 2019 is a 12.6 billion deficit. Think youl find thats part of Westminsters deficit as scotland gets lumped with a percentage of what Westminster borrows " Sadly not but fortunately mellow fellow has posted a link not far above | |||
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"Lets hope the next IndyRef the right questions are asked. For example, what money will they (Scotland) adopt? How will they raise enough income? The truth about the chance of rejoining the EU? It's interesting you're prepared to concede the possibility of an IndyRef2. I reckon it'll happen - but not for at least a decade. As far as your questions go; the first two were asked a lot, in 2014. There was no answer to the first one, since the Treasury ruled out Sterling. There still isn't, yet - but the notion that a sovereign state won't have any kind of currency is ridiculous. So, it'll be a question of what value it has. The NZ$ is worth 52p, on a GDP and resources much the same as Scotland's. Raising enough income? Taxation and borrowing. It's how all the other countries do it. Unless you mean to suggest that Scotland cannot, or will not be allowed to do either; there's no reason we can't run at a loss. Many countries do; although Iceland runs a small surplus - just 12 years after their bankers fucked the entire country. Is Scotland really incapable of making a similar effort? As for rejoining the EU. Who knows? The Spanish might get bribed into letting us join. In any case, we were dragged out after being told, in 2014, it was the right thing to do to stay in the EU. I guess, were we to ever become independent, there would be nothing to stop us from reapplying every few years.The question of income was because you have to meet a certain criteria to join the eu money wise and i cannot see them fiddling the books again like they did with spain and italy.If Scotland wants independence im all for it,its the peoples choice just like Brexit was but i think the snp need to be honest about their chances and how long it would take to re join the eu. If they are so broke why are we so keen not to lose them.? The scottish goverment gives the uk treasury 68billion and gets 35billion back so we are not broke thats just a Westminster myth The official figures for 2018/ 2019 is a 12.6 billion deficit. Think youl find thats part of Westminsters deficit as scotland gets lumped with a percentage of what Westminster borrows Sadly not but fortunately mellow fellow has posted a link not far above" Scotland has no real borrowing powers so pays a percentage for what westminister borrows so its a Westminster deficit | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Lets hope the next IndyRef the right questions are asked. For example, what money will they (Scotland) adopt? How will they raise enough income? The truth about the chance of rejoining the EU? It's interesting you're prepared to concede the possibility of an IndyRef2. I reckon it'll happen - but not for at least a decade. As far as your questions go; the first two were asked a lot, in 2014. There was no answer to the first one, since the Treasury ruled out Sterling. There still isn't, yet - but the notion that a sovereign state won't have any kind of currency is ridiculous. So, it'll be a question of what value it has. The NZ$ is worth 52p, on a GDP and resources much the same as Scotland's. Raising enough income? Taxation and borrowing. It's how all the other countries do it. Unless you mean to suggest that Scotland cannot, or will not be allowed to do either; there's no reason we can't run at a loss. Many countries do; although Iceland runs a small surplus - just 12 years after their bankers fucked the entire country. Is Scotland really incapable of making a similar effort? As for rejoining the EU. Who knows? The Spanish might get bribed into letting us join. In any case, we were dragged out after being told, in 2014, it was the right thing to do to stay in the EU. I guess, were we to ever become independent, there would be nothing to stop us from reapplying every few years.The question of income was because you have to meet a certain criteria to join the eu money wise and i cannot see them fiddling the books again like they did with spain and italy.If Scotland wants independence im all for it,its the peoples choice just like Brexit was but i think the snp need to be honest about their chances and how long it would take to re join the eu. If they are so broke why are we so keen not to lose them.? The scottish goverment gives the uk treasury 68billion and gets 35billion back so we are not broke thats just a Westminster myth The official figures for 2018/ 2019 is a 12.6 billion deficit.
https://www.deliveringforscotland.gov.uk/scotland-in-the-uk/public-spending/"Cant get the link to open but its a uk gov website so its going to be pro uk gov and anti scots gov | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Lets hope the next IndyRef the right questions are asked. For example, what money will they (Scotland) adopt? How will they raise enough income? The truth about the chance of rejoining the EU? It's interesting you're prepared to concede the possibility of an IndyRef2. I reckon it'll happen - but not for at least a decade. As far as your questions go; the first two were asked a lot, in 2014. There was no answer to the first one, since the Treasury ruled out Sterling. There still isn't, yet - but the notion that a sovereign state won't have any kind of currency is ridiculous. So, it'll be a question of what value it has. The NZ$ is worth 52p, on a GDP and resources much the same as Scotland's. Raising enough income? Taxation and borrowing. It's how all the other countries do it. Unless you mean to suggest that Scotland cannot, or will not be allowed to do either; there's no reason we can't run at a loss. Many countries do; although Iceland runs a small surplus - just 12 years after their bankers fucked the entire country. Is Scotland really incapable of making a similar effort? As for rejoining the EU. Who knows? The Spanish might get bribed into letting us join. In any case, we were dragged out after being told, in 2014, it was the right thing to do to stay in the EU. I guess, were we to ever become independent, there would be nothing to stop us from reapplying every few years.The question of income was because you have to meet a certain criteria to join the eu money wise and i cannot see them fiddling the books again like they did with spain and italy.If Scotland wants independence im all for it,its the peoples choice just like Brexit was but i think the snp need to be honest about their chances and how long it would take to re join the eu. If they are so broke why are we so keen not to lose them.? The scottish goverment gives the uk treasury 68billion and gets 35billion back so we are not broke thats just a Westminster myth The official figures for 2018/ 2019 is a 12.6 billion deficit. Think youl find thats part of Westminsters deficit as scotland gets lumped with a percentage of what Westminster borrows Sadly not but fortunately mellow fellow has posted a link not far above Scotland has no real borrowing powers so pays a percentage for what westminister borrows so its a Westminster deficit " Which confirms they run a deficit which is what I was saying. An independent Scotland would have to borrow money on the international markets at a rate the lender's will set. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Lets hope the next IndyRef the right questions are asked. For example, what money will they (Scotland) adopt? How will they raise enough income? The truth about the chance of rejoining the EU? It's interesting you're prepared to concede the possibility of an IndyRef2. I reckon it'll happen - but not for at least a decade. As far as your questions go; the first two were asked a lot, in 2014. There was no answer to the first one, since the Treasury ruled out Sterling. There still isn't, yet - but the notion that a sovereign state won't have any kind of currency is ridiculous. So, it'll be a question of what value it has. The NZ$ is worth 52p, on a GDP and resources much the same as Scotland's. Raising enough income? Taxation and borrowing. It's how all the other countries do it. Unless you mean to suggest that Scotland cannot, or will not be allowed to do either; there's no reason we can't run at a loss. Many countries do; although Iceland runs a small surplus - just 12 years after their bankers fucked the entire country. Is Scotland really incapable of making a similar effort? As for rejoining the EU. Who knows? The Spanish might get bribed into letting us join. In any case, we were dragged out after being told, in 2014, it was the right thing to do to stay in the EU. I guess, were we to ever become independent, there would be nothing to stop us from reapplying every few years.The question of income was because you have to meet a certain criteria to join the eu money wise and i cannot see them fiddling the books again like they did with spain and italy.If Scotland wants independence im all for it,its the peoples choice just like Brexit was but i think the snp need to be honest about their chances and how long it would take to re join the eu. If they are so broke why are we so keen not to lose them.? The scottish goverment gives the uk treasury 68billion and gets 35billion back so we are not broke thats just a Westminster myth The official figures for 2018/ 2019 is a 12.6 billion deficit.
https://www.deliveringforscotland.gov.uk/scotland-in-the-uk/public-spending/
Cant get the link to open but its a uk gov website so its going to be pro uk gov and anti scots gov"It's the Scottish governments website | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Lets hope the next IndyRef the right questions are asked. For example, what money will they (Scotland) adopt? How will they raise enough income? The truth about the chance of rejoining the EU? It's interesting you're prepared to concede the possibility of an IndyRef2. I reckon it'll happen - but not for at least a decade. As far as your questions go; the first two were asked a lot, in 2014. There was no answer to the first one, since the Treasury ruled out Sterling. There still isn't, yet - but the notion that a sovereign state won't have any kind of currency is ridiculous. So, it'll be a question of what value it has. The NZ$ is worth 52p, on a GDP and resources much the same as Scotland's. Raising enough income? Taxation and borrowing. It's how all the other countries do it. Unless you mean to suggest that Scotland cannot, or will not be allowed to do either; there's no reason we can't run at a loss. Many countries do; although Iceland runs a small surplus - just 12 years after their bankers fucked the entire country. Is Scotland really incapable of making a similar effort? As for rejoining the EU. Who knows? The Spanish might get bribed into letting us join. In any case, we were dragged out after being told, in 2014, it was the right thing to do to stay in the EU. I guess, were we to ever become independent, there would be nothing to stop us from reapplying every few years.The question of income was because you have to meet a certain criteria to join the eu money wise and i cannot see them fiddling the books again like they did with spain and italy.If Scotland wants independence im all for it,its the peoples choice just like Brexit was but i think the snp need to be honest about their chances and how long it would take to re join the eu. If they are so broke why are we so keen not to lose them.? The scottish goverment gives the uk treasury 68billion and gets 35billion back so we are not broke thats just a Westminster myth The official figures for 2018/ 2019 is a 12.6 billion deficit. Think youl find thats part of Westminsters deficit as scotland gets lumped with a percentage of what Westminster borrows Sadly not but fortunately mellow fellow has posted a link not far above Scotland has no real borrowing powers so pays a percentage for what westminister borrows so its a Westminster deficit Which confirms they run a deficit which is what I was saying. An independent Scotland would have to borrow money on the international markets at a rate the lender's will set. " How can a country with no borrowing powers have a deficit ? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Lets hope the next IndyRef the right questions are asked. For example, what money will they (Scotland) adopt? How will they raise enough income? The truth about the chance of rejoining the EU? It's interesting you're prepared to concede the possibility of an IndyRef2. I reckon it'll happen - but not for at least a decade. As far as your questions go; the first two were asked a lot, in 2014. There was no answer to the first one, since the Treasury ruled out Sterling. There still isn't, yet - but the notion that a sovereign state won't have any kind of currency is ridiculous. So, it'll be a question of what value it has. The NZ$ is worth 52p, on a GDP and resources much the same as Scotland's. Raising enough income? Taxation and borrowing. It's how all the other countries do it. Unless you mean to suggest that Scotland cannot, or will not be allowed to do either; there's no reason we can't run at a loss. Many countries do; although Iceland runs a small surplus - just 12 years after their bankers fucked the entire country. Is Scotland really incapable of making a similar effort? As for rejoining the EU. Who knows? The Spanish might get bribed into letting us join. In any case, we were dragged out after being told, in 2014, it was the right thing to do to stay in the EU. I guess, were we to ever become independent, there would be nothing to stop us from reapplying every few years.The question of income was because you have to meet a certain criteria to join the eu money wise and i cannot see them fiddling the books again like they did with spain and italy.If Scotland wants independence im all for it,its the peoples choice just like Brexit was but i think the snp need to be honest about their chances and how long it would take to re join the eu. If they are so broke why are we so keen not to lose them.? The scottish goverment gives the uk treasury 68billion and gets 35billion back so we are not broke thats just a Westminster myth The official figures for 2018/ 2019 is a 12.6 billion deficit.
https://www.deliveringforscotland.gov.uk/scotland-in-the-uk/public-spending/
Cant get the link to open but its a uk gov website so its going to be pro uk gov and anti scots gov
It's the Scottish governments website"Its uk/gov website | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Lets hope the next IndyRef the right questions are asked. For example, what money will they (Scotland) adopt? How will they raise enough income? The truth about the chance of rejoining the EU? It's interesting you're prepared to concede the possibility of an IndyRef2. I reckon it'll happen - but not for at least a decade. As far as your questions go; the first two were asked a lot, in 2014. There was no answer to the first one, since the Treasury ruled out Sterling. There still isn't, yet - but the notion that a sovereign state won't have any kind of currency is ridiculous. So, it'll be a question of what value it has. The NZ$ is worth 52p, on a GDP and resources much the same as Scotland's. Raising enough income? Taxation and borrowing. It's how all the other countries do it. Unless you mean to suggest that Scotland cannot, or will not be allowed to do either; there's no reason we can't run at a loss. Many countries do; although Iceland runs a small surplus - just 12 years after their bankers fucked the entire country. Is Scotland really incapable of making a similar effort? As for rejoining the EU. Who knows? The Spanish might get bribed into letting us join. In any case, we were dragged out after being told, in 2014, it was the right thing to do to stay in the EU. I guess, were we to ever become independent, there would be nothing to stop us from reapplying every few years.The question of income was because you have to meet a certain criteria to join the eu money wise and i cannot see them fiddling the books again like they did with spain and italy.If Scotland wants independence im all for it,its the peoples choice just like Brexit was but i think the snp need to be honest about their chances and how long it would take to re join the eu. If they are so broke why are we so keen not to lose them.? The scottish goverment gives the uk treasury 68billion and gets 35billion back so we are not broke thats just a Westminster myth The official figures for 2018/ 2019 is a 12.6 billion deficit. Think youl find thats part of Westminsters deficit as scotland gets lumped with a percentage of what Westminster borrows Sadly not but fortunately mellow fellow has posted a link not far above Scotland has no real borrowing powers so pays a percentage for what westminister borrows so its a Westminster deficit Which confirms they run a deficit which is what I was saying. An independent Scotland would have to borrow money on the international markets at a rate the lender's will set. How can a country with no borrowing powers have a deficit ? " Because they are devolved and responsible for the budgets. They spend more than they make hence the deficit. Westminster makes up the shortfall. If and when Scotland goes independent they will not have Westminster making up that shortfall so will need to borrow. Actually they could do a mix of borrowing and cost cutting | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Lets hope the next IndyRef the right questions are asked. For example, what money will they (Scotland) adopt? How will they raise enough income? The truth about the chance of rejoining the EU? It's interesting you're prepared to concede the possibility of an IndyRef2. I reckon it'll happen - but not for at least a decade. As far as your questions go; the first two were asked a lot, in 2014. There was no answer to the first one, since the Treasury ruled out Sterling. There still isn't, yet - but the notion that a sovereign state won't have any kind of currency is ridiculous. So, it'll be a question of what value it has. The NZ$ is worth 52p, on a GDP and resources much the same as Scotland's. Raising enough income? Taxation and borrowing. It's how all the other countries do it. Unless you mean to suggest that Scotland cannot, or will not be allowed to do either; there's no reason we can't run at a loss. Many countries do; although Iceland runs a small surplus - just 12 years after their bankers fucked the entire country. Is Scotland really incapable of making a similar effort? As for rejoining the EU. Who knows? The Spanish might get bribed into letting us join. In any case, we were dragged out after being told, in 2014, it was the right thing to do to stay in the EU. I guess, were we to ever become independent, there would be nothing to stop us from reapplying every few years.The question of income was because you have to meet a certain criteria to join the eu money wise and i cannot see them fiddling the books again like they did with spain and italy.If Scotland wants independence im all for it,its the peoples choice just like Brexit was but i think the snp need to be honest about their chances and how long it would take to re join the eu. If they are so broke why are we so keen not to lose them.? The scottish goverment gives the uk treasury 68billion and gets 35billion back so we are not broke thats just a Westminster myth The official figures for 2018/ 2019 is a 12.6 billion deficit.
https://www.deliveringforscotland.gov.uk/scotland-in-the-uk/public-spending/
Cant get the link to open but its a uk gov website so its going to be pro uk gov and anti scots gov
It's the Scottish governments website
Its uk/gov website"My apologies the site I was looking at began the same. I got the info from the Scottish gov website | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Lets hope the next IndyRef the right questions are asked. For example, what money will they (Scotland) adopt? How will they raise enough income? The truth about the chance of rejoining the EU? It's interesting you're prepared to concede the possibility of an IndyRef2. I reckon it'll happen - but not for at least a decade. As far as your questions go; the first two were asked a lot, in 2014. There was no answer to the first one, since the Treasury ruled out Sterling. There still isn't, yet - but the notion that a sovereign state won't have any kind of currency is ridiculous. So, it'll be a question of what value it has. The NZ$ is worth 52p, on a GDP and resources much the same as Scotland's. Raising enough income? Taxation and borrowing. It's how all the other countries do it. Unless you mean to suggest that Scotland cannot, or will not be allowed to do either; there's no reason we can't run at a loss. Many countries do; although Iceland runs a small surplus - just 12 years after their bankers fucked the entire country. Is Scotland really incapable of making a similar effort? As for rejoining the EU. Who knows? The Spanish might get bribed into letting us join. In any case, we were dragged out after being told, in 2014, it was the right thing to do to stay in the EU. I guess, were we to ever become independent, there would be nothing to stop us from reapplying every few years.The question of income was because you have to meet a certain criteria to join the eu money wise and i cannot see them fiddling the books again like they did with spain and italy.If Scotland wants independence im all for it,its the peoples choice just like Brexit was but i think the snp need to be honest about their chances and how long it would take to re join the eu. If they are so broke why are we so keen not to lose them.? The scottish goverment gives the uk treasury 68billion and gets 35billion back so we are not broke thats just a Westminster myth The official figures for 2018/ 2019 is a 12.6 billion deficit. Think youl find thats part of Westminsters deficit as scotland gets lumped with a percentage of what Westminster borrows Sadly not but fortunately mellow fellow has posted a link not far above Scotland has no real borrowing powers so pays a percentage for what westminister borrows so its a Westminster deficit Which confirms they run a deficit which is what I was saying. An independent Scotland would have to borrow money on the international markets at a rate the lender's will set. How can a country with no borrowing powers have a deficit ? Because they are devolved and responsible for the budgets. They spend more than they make hence the deficit. Westminster makes up the shortfall. If and when Scotland goes independent they will not have Westminster making up that shortfall so will need to borrow. Actually they could do a mix of borrowing and cost cutting " I disagree as i said we give the treasury 65 billion and get 35 back so we wouldnt have any shortfall if independent and kept all our own taxes | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Lets hope the next IndyRef the right questions are asked. For example, what money will they (Scotland) adopt? How will they raise enough income? The truth about the chance of rejoining the EU? It's interesting you're prepared to concede the possibility of an IndyRef2. I reckon it'll happen - but not for at least a decade. As far as your questions go; the first two were asked a lot, in 2014. There was no answer to the first one, since the Treasury ruled out Sterling. There still isn't, yet - but the notion that a sovereign state won't have any kind of currency is ridiculous. So, it'll be a question of what value it has. The NZ$ is worth 52p, on a GDP and resources much the same as Scotland's. Raising enough income? Taxation and borrowing. It's how all the other countries do it. Unless you mean to suggest that Scotland cannot, or will not be allowed to do either; there's no reason we can't run at a loss. Many countries do; although Iceland runs a small surplus - just 12 years after their bankers fucked the entire country. Is Scotland really incapable of making a similar effort? As for rejoining the EU. Who knows? The Spanish might get bribed into letting us join. In any case, we were dragged out after being told, in 2014, it was the right thing to do to stay in the EU. I guess, were we to ever become independent, there would be nothing to stop us from reapplying every few years.The question of income was because you have to meet a certain criteria to join the eu money wise and i cannot see them fiddling the books again like they did with spain and italy.If Scotland wants independence im all for it,its the peoples choice just like Brexit was but i think the snp need to be honest about their chances and how long it would take to re join the eu. If they are so broke why are we so keen not to lose them.? The scottish goverment gives the uk treasury 68billion and gets 35billion back so we are not broke thats just a Westminster myth The official figures for 2018/ 2019 is a 12.6 billion deficit.
https://www.deliveringforscotland.gov.uk/scotland-in-the-uk/public-spending/
Cant get the link to open but its a uk gov website so its going to be pro uk gov and anti scots gov
It's the Scottish governments website
Its uk/gov website
My apologies the site I was looking at began the same. I got the info from the Scottish gov website" | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Lets hope the next IndyRef the right questions are asked. For example, what money will they (Scotland) adopt? How will they raise enough income? The truth about the chance of rejoining the EU? It's interesting you're prepared to concede the possibility of an IndyRef2. I reckon it'll happen - but not for at least a decade. As far as your questions go; the first two were asked a lot, in 2014. There was no answer to the first one, since the Treasury ruled out Sterling. There still isn't, yet - but the notion that a sovereign state won't have any kind of currency is ridiculous. So, it'll be a question of what value it has. The NZ$ is worth 52p, on a GDP and resources much the same as Scotland's. Raising enough income? Taxation and borrowing. It's how all the other countries do it. Unless you mean to suggest that Scotland cannot, or will not be allowed to do either; there's no reason we can't run at a loss. Many countries do; although Iceland runs a small surplus - just 12 years after their bankers fucked the entire country. Is Scotland really incapable of making a similar effort? As for rejoining the EU. Who knows? The Spanish might get bribed into letting us join. In any case, we were dragged out after being told, in 2014, it was the right thing to do to stay in the EU. I guess, were we to ever become independent, there would be nothing to stop us from reapplying every few years.The question of income was because you have to meet a certain criteria to join the eu money wise and i cannot see them fiddling the books again like they did with spain and italy.If Scotland wants independence im all for it,its the peoples choice just like Brexit was but i think the snp need to be honest about their chances and how long it would take to re join the eu. If they are so broke why are we so keen not to lose them.? The scottish goverment gives the uk treasury 68billion and gets 35billion back so we are not broke thats just a Westminster myth The official figures for 2018/ 2019 is a 12.6 billion deficit. Think youl find thats part of Westminsters deficit as scotland gets lumped with a percentage of what Westminster borrows Sadly not but fortunately mellow fellow has posted a link not far above Scotland has no real borrowing powers so pays a percentage for what westminister borrows so its a Westminster deficit Which confirms they run a deficit which is what I was saying. An independent Scotland would have to borrow money on the international markets at a rate the lender's will set. How can a country with no borrowing powers have a deficit ? Because they are devolved and responsible for the budgets. They spend more than they make hence the deficit. Westminster makes up the shortfall. If and when Scotland goes independent they will not have Westminster making up that shortfall so will need to borrow. Actually they could do a mix of borrowing and cost cutting I disagree as i said we give the treasury 65 billion and get 35 back so we wouldnt have any shortfall if independent and kept all our own taxes" That's up to you of course, the Scottish government disagrees and states it. I did come across a website that mentions your figures but showed that they are false. I think it was to do with the fact the devolved governments do not pay for all the expenditure in Scotland only pays for what it has responsibility for. Of course an independent country needs to pay for it all. If I come across the site again will let you know what it is | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Lets hope the next IndyRef the right questions are asked. For example, what money will they (Scotland) adopt? How will they raise enough income? The truth about the chance of rejoining the EU? It's interesting you're prepared to concede the possibility of an IndyRef2. I reckon it'll happen - but not for at least a decade. As far as your questions go; the first two were asked a lot, in 2014. There was no answer to the first one, since the Treasury ruled out Sterling. There still isn't, yet - but the notion that a sovereign state won't have any kind of currency is ridiculous. So, it'll be a question of what value it has. The NZ$ is worth 52p, on a GDP and resources much the same as Scotland's. Raising enough income? Taxation and borrowing. It's how all the other countries do it. Unless you mean to suggest that Scotland cannot, or will not be allowed to do either; there's no reason we can't run at a loss. Many countries do; although Iceland runs a small surplus - just 12 years after their bankers fucked the entire country. Is Scotland really incapable of making a similar effort? As for rejoining the EU. Who knows? The Spanish might get bribed into letting us join. In any case, we were dragged out after being told, in 2014, it was the right thing to do to stay in the EU. I guess, were we to ever become independent, there would be nothing to stop us from reapplying every few years.The question of income was because you have to meet a certain criteria to join the eu money wise and i cannot see them fiddling the books again like they did with spain and italy.If Scotland wants independence im all for it,its the peoples choice just like Brexit was but i think the snp need to be honest about their chances and how long it would take to re join the eu. If they are so broke why are we so keen not to lose them.? The scottish goverment gives the uk treasury 68billion and gets 35billion back so we are not broke thats just a Westminster myth The official figures for 2018/ 2019 is a 12.6 billion deficit. Think youl find thats part of Westminsters deficit as scotland gets lumped with a percentage of what Westminster borrows Sadly not but fortunately mellow fellow has posted a link not far above Scotland has no real borrowing powers so pays a percentage for what westminister borrows so its a Westminster deficit Which confirms they run a deficit which is what I was saying. An independent Scotland would have to borrow money on the international markets at a rate the lender's will set. How can a country with no borrowing powers have a deficit ? Because they are devolved and responsible for the budgets. They spend more than they make hence the deficit. Westminster makes up the shortfall. If and when Scotland goes independent they will not have Westminster making up that shortfall so will need to borrow. Actually they could do a mix of borrowing and cost cutting I disagree as i said we give the treasury 65 billion and get 35 back so we wouldnt have any shortfall if independent and kept all our own taxes That's up to you of course, the Scottish government disagrees and states it. I did come across a website that mentions your figures but showed that they are false. I think it was to do with the fact the devolved governments do not pay for all the expenditure in Scotland only pays for what it has responsibility for. Of course an independent country needs to pay for it all. If I come across the site again will let you know what it is" | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Lets hope the next IndyRef the right questions are asked. For example, what money will they (Scotland) adopt? How will they raise enough income? The truth about the chance of rejoining the EU? It's interesting you're prepared to concede the possibility of an IndyRef2. I reckon it'll happen - but not for at least a decade. As far as your questions go; the first two were asked a lot, in 2014. There was no answer to the first one, since the Treasury ruled out Sterling. There still isn't, yet - but the notion that a sovereign state won't have any kind of currency is ridiculous. So, it'll be a question of what value it has. The NZ$ is worth 52p, on a GDP and resources much the same as Scotland's. Raising enough income? Taxation and borrowing. It's how all the other countries do it. Unless you mean to suggest that Scotland cannot, or will not be allowed to do either; there's no reason we can't run at a loss. Many countries do; although Iceland runs a small surplus - just 12 years after their bankers fucked the entire country. Is Scotland really incapable of making a similar effort? As for rejoining the EU. Who knows? The Spanish might get bribed into letting us join. In any case, we were dragged out after being told, in 2014, it was the right thing to do to stay in the EU. I guess, were we to ever become independent, there would be nothing to stop us from reapplying every few years.The question of income was because you have to meet a certain criteria to join the eu money wise and i cannot see them fiddling the books again like they did with spain and italy.If Scotland wants independence im all for it,its the peoples choice just like Brexit was but i think the snp need to be honest about their chances and how long it would take to re join the eu. If they are so broke why are we so keen not to lose them.? The scottish goverment gives the uk treasury 68billion and gets 35billion back so we are not broke thats just a Westminster myth The official figures for 2018/ 2019 is a 12.6 billion deficit. Think youl find thats part of Westminsters deficit as scotland gets lumped with a percentage of what Westminster borrows Sadly not but fortunately mellow fellow has posted a link not far above Scotland has no real borrowing powers so pays a percentage for what westminister borrows so its a Westminster deficit Which confirms they run a deficit which is what I was saying. An independent Scotland would have to borrow money on the international markets at a rate the lender's will set. How can a country with no borrowing powers have a deficit ? Because they are devolved and responsible for the budgets. They spend more than they make hence the deficit. Westminster makes up the shortfall. If and when Scotland goes independent they will not have Westminster making up that shortfall so will need to borrow. Actually they could do a mix of borrowing and cost cutting I disagree as i said we give the treasury 65 billion and get 35 back so we wouldnt have any shortfall if independent and kept all our own taxes That's up to you of course, the Scottish government disagrees and states it. I did come across a website that mentions your figures but showed that they are false. I think it was to do with the fact the devolved governments do not pay for all the expenditure in Scotland only pays for what it has responsibility for. Of course an independent country needs to pay for it all. If I come across the site again will let you know what it is "https://www.gov.uk/government/news/scottish-income-tax-shortfall-offset-by-uk-funding https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/07/18/scottish-income-tax-941-million-short-forecast-westminster-bails/ Sadly these are the facts but Just to be clear I think if Scotland vote for Independence they should have it. Lovely country with lovely people | |||
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"Lets hope the next IndyRef the right questions are asked. For example, what money will they (Scotland) adopt? How will they raise enough income? The truth about the chance of rejoining the EU? It's interesting you're prepared to concede the possibility of an IndyRef2. I reckon it'll happen - but not for at least a decade. As far as your questions go; the first two were asked a lot, in 2014. There was no answer to the first one, since the Treasury ruled out Sterling. There still isn't, yet - but the notion that a sovereign state won't have any kind of currency is ridiculous. So, it'll be a question of what value it has. The NZ$ is worth 52p, on a GDP and resources much the same as Scotland's. Raising enough income? Taxation and borrowing. It's how all the other countries do it. Unless you mean to suggest that Scotland cannot, or will not be allowed to do either; there's no reason we can't run at a loss. Many countries do; although Iceland runs a small surplus - just 12 years after their bankers fucked the entire country. Is Scotland really incapable of making a similar effort? As for rejoining the EU. Who knows? The Spanish might get bribed into letting us join. In any case, we were dragged out after being told, in 2014, it was the right thing to do to stay in the EU. I guess, were we to ever become independent, there would be nothing to stop us from reapplying every few years.The question of income was because you have to meet a certain criteria to join the eu money wise and i cannot see them fiddling the books again like they did with spain and italy.If Scotland wants independence im all for it,its the peoples choice just like Brexit was but i think the snp need to be honest about their chances and how long it would take to re join the eu. If they are so broke why are we so keen not to lose them.? The scottish goverment gives the uk treasury 68billion and gets 35billion back so we are not broke thats just a Westminster myth The official figures for 2018/ 2019 is a 12.6 billion deficit. Think youl find thats part of Westminsters deficit as scotland gets lumped with a percentage of what Westminster borrows Sadly not but fortunately mellow fellow has posted a link not far above Scotland has no real borrowing powers so pays a percentage for what westminister borrows so its a Westminster deficit Which confirms they run a deficit which is what I was saying. An independent Scotland would have to borrow money on the international markets at a rate the lender's will set. How can a country with no borrowing powers have a deficit ? Because they are devolved and responsible for the budgets. They spend more than they make hence the deficit. Westminster makes up the shortfall. If and when Scotland goes independent they will not have Westminster making up that shortfall so will need to borrow. Actually they could do a mix of borrowing and cost cutting I disagree as i said we give the treasury 65 billion and get 35 back so we wouldnt have any shortfall if independent and kept all our own taxes That's up to you of course, the Scottish government disagrees and states it. I did come across a website that mentions your figures but showed that they are false. I think it was to do with the fact the devolved governments do not pay for all the expenditure in Scotland only pays for what it has responsibility for. Of course an independent country needs to pay for it all. If I come across the site again will let you know what it is
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/scottish-income-tax-shortfall-offset-by-uk-funding
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/07/18/scottish-income-tax-941-million-short-forecast-westminster-bails/
Sadly these are the facts but
Just to be clear I think if Scotland vote for Independence they should have it. Lovely country with lovely people"Sorry dont accept that Heres an example of how we are beeing shafted ,i gove you 20 pounds you give me back 10 to spend and you spends the other 10 for me oh then you overspend by 5pounds and now i have a 5pounds deficit | |||
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"Lets hope the next IndyRef the right questions are asked. For example, what money will they (Scotland) adopt? How will they raise enough income? The truth about the chance of rejoining the EU? It's interesting you're prepared to concede the possibility of an IndyRef2. I reckon it'll happen - but not for at least a decade. As far as your questions go; the first two were asked a lot, in 2014. There was no answer to the first one, since the Treasury ruled out Sterling. There still isn't, yet - but the notion that a sovereign state won't have any kind of currency is ridiculous. So, it'll be a question of what value it has. The NZ$ is worth 52p, on a GDP and resources much the same as Scotland's. Raising enough income? Taxation and borrowing. It's how all the other countries do it. Unless you mean to suggest that Scotland cannot, or will not be allowed to do either; there's no reason we can't run at a loss. Many countries do; although Iceland runs a small surplus - just 12 years after their bankers fucked the entire country. Is Scotland really incapable of making a similar effort? As for rejoining the EU. Who knows? The Spanish might get bribed into letting us join. In any case, we were dragged out after being told, in 2014, it was the right thing to do to stay in the EU. I guess, were we to ever become independent, there would be nothing to stop us from reapplying every few years.The question of income was because you have to meet a certain criteria to join the eu money wise and i cannot see them fiddling the books again like they did with spain and italy.If Scotland wants independence im all for it,its the peoples choice just like Brexit was but i think the snp need to be honest about their chances and how long it would take to re join the eu. If they are so broke why are we so keen not to lose them.? The scottish goverment gives the uk treasury 68billion and gets 35billion back so we are not broke thats just a Westminster myth The official figures for 2018/ 2019 is a 12.6 billion deficit. Think youl find thats part of Westminsters deficit as scotland gets lumped with a percentage of what Westminster borrows Sadly not but fortunately mellow fellow has posted a link not far above Scotland has no real borrowing powers so pays a percentage for what westminister borrows so its a Westminster deficit Which confirms they run a deficit which is what I was saying. An independent Scotland would have to borrow money on the international markets at a rate the lender's will set. How can a country with no borrowing powers have a deficit ? Because they are devolved and responsible for the budgets. They spend more than they make hence the deficit. Westminster makes up the shortfall. If and when Scotland goes independent they will not have Westminster making up that shortfall so will need to borrow. Actually they could do a mix of borrowing and cost cutting I disagree as i said we give the treasury 65 billion and get 35 back so we wouldnt have any shortfall if independent and kept all our own taxes That's up to you of course, the Scottish government disagrees and states it. I did come across a website that mentions your figures but showed that they are false. I think it was to do with the fact the devolved governments do not pay for all the expenditure in Scotland only pays for what it has responsibility for. Of course an independent country needs to pay for it all. If I come across the site again will let you know what it is
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/scottish-income-tax-shortfall-offset-by-uk-funding
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/07/18/scottish-income-tax-941-million-short-forecast-westminster-bails/
Sadly these are the facts but
Just to be clear I think if Scotland vote for Independence they should have it. Lovely country with lovely people
Sorry dont accept that
Heres an example of how we are beeing shafted ,i gove you 20 pounds you give me back 10 to spend and you spends the other 10 for me oh then you overspend by 5pounds and now i have a 5pounds deficit "Accept it or not they are the official figures as published by the Scottish Government so it's them you disagree with. The links I posted also show that even just the devolved part of spending is in deficit hence the extra help. How do you explain the links I posted showing Westminster having to give extra money on top of the budget. The figures you use only show a small part of the overall story. Not all areas of spending are devolved so not included in your figures. When Scotland goes it alone they will have to pay for all the other areas they currently do not. Here's an explanation of the figures you use https://chokkablog.blogspot.com/2019/12/how-much-of-scotlands-tax-revenue-does.html?m=1 | |||
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"Lets hope the next IndyRef the right questions are asked. For example, what money will they (Scotland) adopt? How will they raise enough income? The truth about the chance of rejoining the EU? It's interesting you're prepared to concede the possibility of an IndyRef2. I reckon it'll happen - but not for at least a decade. As far as your questions go; the first two were asked a lot, in 2014. There was no answer to the first one, since the Treasury ruled out Sterling. There still isn't, yet - but the notion that a sovereign state won't have any kind of currency is ridiculous. So, it'll be a question of what value it has. The NZ$ is worth 52p, on a GDP and resources much the same as Scotland's. Raising enough income? Taxation and borrowing. It's how all the other countries do it. Unless you mean to suggest that Scotland cannot, or will not be allowed to do either; there's no reason we can't run at a loss. Many countries do; although Iceland runs a small surplus - just 12 years after their bankers fucked the entire country. Is Scotland really incapable of making a similar effort? As for rejoining the EU. Who knows? The Spanish might get bribed into letting us join. In any case, we were dragged out after being told, in 2014, it was the right thing to do to stay in the EU. I guess, were we to ever become independent, there would be nothing to stop us from reapplying every few years.The question of income was because you have to meet a certain criteria to join the eu money wise and i cannot see them fiddling the books again like they did with spain and italy.If Scotland wants independence im all for it,its the peoples choice just like Brexit was but i think the snp need to be honest about their chances and how long it would take to re join the eu. If they are so broke why are we so keen not to lose them.? The scottish goverment gives the uk treasury 68billion and gets 35billion back so we are not broke thats just a Westminster myth The official figures for 2018/ 2019 is a 12.6 billion deficit. Think youl find thats part of Westminsters deficit as scotland gets lumped with a percentage of what Westminster borrows Sadly not but fortunately mellow fellow has posted a link not far above Scotland has no real borrowing powers so pays a percentage for what westminister borrows so its a Westminster deficit Which confirms they run a deficit which is what I was saying. An independent Scotland would have to borrow money on the international markets at a rate the lender's will set. How can a country with no borrowing powers have a deficit ? Because they are devolved and responsible for the budgets. They spend more than they make hence the deficit. Westminster makes up the shortfall. If and when Scotland goes independent they will not have Westminster making up that shortfall so will need to borrow. Actually they could do a mix of borrowing and cost cutting I disagree as i said we give the treasury 65 billion and get 35 back so we wouldnt have any shortfall if independent and kept all our own taxes That's up to you of course, the Scottish government disagrees and states it. I did come across a website that mentions your figures but showed that they are false. I think it was to do with the fact the devolved governments do not pay for all the expenditure in Scotland only pays for what it has responsibility for. Of course an independent country needs to pay for it all. If I come across the site again will let you know what it is
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/scottish-income-tax-shortfall-offset-by-uk-funding
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/07/18/scottish-income-tax-941-million-short-forecast-westminster-bails/
Sadly these are the facts but
Just to be clear I think if Scotland vote for Independence they should have it. Lovely country with lovely people
Sorry dont accept that
Heres an example of how we are beeing shafted ,i gove you 20 pounds you give me back 10 to spend and you spends the other 10 for me oh then you overspend by 5pounds and now i have a 5pounds deficit
Accept it or not they are the official figures as published by the Scottish Government so it's them you disagree with. The links I posted also show that even just the devolved part of spending is in deficit hence the extra help. How do you explain the links I posted showing Westminster having to give extra money on top of the budget. The figures you use only show a small part of the overall story. Not all areas of spending are devolved so not included in your figures. When Scotland goes it alone they will have to pay for all the other areas they currently do not. Here's an explanation of the figures you use
https://chokkablog.blogspot.com/2019/12/how-much-of-scotlands-tax-revenue-does.html?m=1"The link you gave is uk gov and the telegraph lol think that says it all | |||
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"Lets hope the next IndyRef the right questions are asked. For example, what money will they (Scotland) adopt? How will they raise enough income? The truth about the chance of rejoining the EU? It's interesting you're prepared to concede the possibility of an IndyRef2. I reckon it'll happen - but not for at least a decade. As far as your questions go; the first two were asked a lot, in 2014. There was no answer to the first one, since the Treasury ruled out Sterling. There still isn't, yet - but the notion that a sovereign state won't have any kind of currency is ridiculous. So, it'll be a question of what value it has. The NZ$ is worth 52p, on a GDP and resources much the same as Scotland's. Raising enough income? Taxation and borrowing. It's how all the other countries do it. Unless you mean to suggest that Scotland cannot, or will not be allowed to do either; there's no reason we can't run at a loss. Many countries do; although Iceland runs a small surplus - just 12 years after their bankers fucked the entire country. Is Scotland really incapable of making a similar effort? As for rejoining the EU. Who knows? The Spanish might get bribed into letting us join. In any case, we were dragged out after being told, in 2014, it was the right thing to do to stay in the EU. I guess, were we to ever become independent, there would be nothing to stop us from reapplying every few years.The question of income was because you have to meet a certain criteria to join the eu money wise and i cannot see them fiddling the books again like they did with spain and italy.If Scotland wants independence im all for it,its the peoples choice just like Brexit was but i think the snp need to be honest about their chances and how long it would take to re join the eu. If they are so broke why are we so keen not to lose them.? The scottish goverment gives the uk treasury 68billion and gets 35billion back so we are not broke thats just a Westminster myth The official figures for 2018/ 2019 is a 12.6 billion deficit. Think youl find thats part of Westminsters deficit as scotland gets lumped with a percentage of what Westminster borrows Sadly not but fortunately mellow fellow has posted a link not far above Scotland has no real borrowing powers so pays a percentage for what westminister borrows so its a Westminster deficit Which confirms they run a deficit which is what I was saying. An independent Scotland would have to borrow money on the international markets at a rate the lender's will set. How can a country with no borrowing powers have a deficit ? Because they are devolved and responsible for the budgets. They spend more than they make hence the deficit. Westminster makes up the shortfall. If and when Scotland goes independent they will not have Westminster making up that shortfall so will need to borrow. Actually they could do a mix of borrowing and cost cutting I disagree as i said we give the treasury 65 billion and get 35 back so we wouldnt have any shortfall if independent and kept all our own taxes That's up to you of course, the Scottish government disagrees and states it. I did come across a website that mentions your figures but showed that they are false. I think it was to do with the fact the devolved governments do not pay for all the expenditure in Scotland only pays for what it has responsibility for. Of course an independent country needs to pay for it all. If I come across the site again will let you know what it is
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/scottish-income-tax-shortfall-offset-by-uk-funding
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/07/18/scottish-income-tax-941-million-short-forecast-westminster-bails/
Sadly these are the facts but
Just to be clear I think if Scotland vote for Independence they should have it. Lovely country with lovely people
Sorry dont accept that
Heres an example of how we are beeing shafted ,i gove you 20 pounds you give me back 10 to spend and you spends the other 10 for me oh then you overspend by 5pounds and now i have a 5pounds deficit
Accept it or not they are the official figures as published by the Scottish Government so it's them you disagree with. The links I posted also show that even just the devolved part of spending is in deficit hence the extra help. How do you explain the links I posted showing Westminster having to give extra money on top of the budget. The figures you use only show a small part of the overall story. Not all areas of spending are devolved so not included in your figures. When Scotland goes it alone they will have to pay for all the other areas they currently do not. Here's an explanation of the figures you use
https://chokkablog.blogspot.com/2019/12/how-much-of-scotlands-tax-revenue-does.html?m=1
The link you gave is uk gov and the telegraph lol think that says it all "Scottish government website has exactly the same figures. It's also confirmed by the EU when the whole business of independence came up and the SNP. These are the facts I'm afraid. Of course you have every right to doubt them or the sources though why you would doubt the Scottish government I'm not sure but either way they remain the facts | |||
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"Facts sometimes are not enough. Feelings can trump all the facts, as we have seen..." Absolutely agree. I was just showing the figures to another poster who was under the illusion Scotland ran a surplus. I have said before if Scotland votes independence then that's what they should have. | |||
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"Facts sometimes are not enough. Feelings can trump all the facts, as we have seen... Absolutely agree. I was just showing the figures to another poster who was under the illusion Scotland ran a surplus. I have said before if Scotland votes independence then that's what they should have." Yep. I won't blame em either. Boris is probably the biggest driving force for independence. | |||
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"Facts sometimes are not enough. Feelings can trump all the facts, as we have seen... Absolutely agree. I was just showing the figures to another poster who was under the illusion Scotland ran a surplus. I have said before if Scotland votes independence then that's what they should have. Yep. I won't blame em either. Boris is probably the biggest driving force for independence." Not sure it matters who is PM if you want independence or at least it shouldn't. I expect they would have wanted indyref 2 before the UK left the EU in January. The future deal or no deal with EU may decide Scotland's tactics going forward though I expect the pressure to mount on Boris all the time | |||
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"Facts sometimes are not enough. Feelings can trump all the facts, as we have seen... Absolutely agree. I was just showing the figures to another poster who was under the illusion Scotland ran a surplus. I have said before if Scotland votes independence then that's what they should have. Yep. I won't blame em either. Boris is probably the biggest driving force for independence. Not sure it matters who is PM if you want independence or at least it shouldn't. I expect they would have wanted indyref 2 before the UK left the EU in January. The future deal or no deal with EU may decide Scotland's tactics going forward though I expect the pressure to mount on Boris all the time" Yep, definitely trouble ahead... | |||
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"UK could easily become federalised by giving England their own Parliament to discuss their own laws" Tbis is what I would like to see. I am a unionist,but believe England,like Scotland,Wales and Northern Ireland should have more of a say over their own affairs. The English parliament could sit it what is now the house of commons,get rid of the Lord's and put the UK Parliament in there. It won't happen though | |||
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"UK could easily become federalised by giving England their own Parliament to discuss their own laws Tbis is what I would like to see. I am a unionist,but believe England,like Scotland,Wales and Northern Ireland should have more of a say over their own affairs. The English parliament could sit it what is now the house of commons,get rid of the Lord's and put the UK Parliament in there. It won't happen though" if only eh | |||
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"Facts sometimes are not enough. Feelings can trump all the facts, as we have seen... Absolutely agree. I was just showing the figures to another poster who was under the illusion Scotland ran a surplus. I have said before if Scotland votes independence then that's what they should have." Agreed. Independence would not be easy at all. Hardly any country runs at a surplus - and we definitely wouldn't. However, having a deficit is no bar to being independent. Is it? Or is Scotland a unique case? I want it to happen but I'm not sure it will; not in my lifetime, anyway. Why do I want it? I care more about living in an actual democracy - where the seats in parliament are an accurate reflection of votes cast (like in Germany) - than I do about the contents of my bank account. It's not a view many people hold, I know - nor would I expect them to. My vote actually meaning something - being able to choose who is, ultimately, running my country - is what I want. There's a high price to be paid for it. I'm ok with that. The majority of Scots aren't - yet. They may never be. But Boris telling us 'I know what's best for you all, take the money and stop moaning' really isn't helping his case. | |||
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"If they are so broke why are we so keen not to lose them? Not everything is about money." Exactly. The Union gets a third of its landmass and all the territorial waters surrounding that part of it - plus somewhere to park Trident - for the small amount of extra money per head they spend in Scotland. The UK government knows its getting a bargain - even if a lot of its supporters don't. | |||
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"Facts sometimes are not enough. Feelings can trump all the facts, as we have seen... Absolutely agree. I was just showing the figures to another poster who was under the illusion Scotland ran a surplus. I have said before if Scotland votes independence then that's what they should have. Agreed. Independence would not be easy at all. Hardly any country runs at a surplus - and we definitely wouldn't. However, having a deficit is no bar to being independent. Is it? Or is Scotland a unique case? I want it to happen but I'm not sure it will; not in my lifetime, anyway. Why do I want it? I care more about living in an actual democracy - where the seats in parliament are an accurate reflection of votes cast (like in Germany) - than I do about the contents of my bank account. It's not a view many people hold, I know - nor would I expect them to. My vote actually meaning something - being able to choose who is, ultimately, running my country - is what I want. There's a high price to be paid for it. I'm ok with that. The majority of Scots aren't - yet. They may never be. But Boris telling us 'I know what's best for you all, take the money and stop moaning' really isn't helping his case." Sounds just like what brexit supporters were saying. | |||
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"Facts sometimes are not enough. Feelings can trump all the facts, as we have seen... Absolutely agree. I was just showing the figures to another poster who was under the illusion Scotland ran a surplus. I have said before if Scotland votes independence then that's what they should have. Agreed. Independence would not be easy at all. Hardly any country runs at a surplus - and we definitely wouldn't. However, having a deficit is no bar to being independent. Is it? Or is Scotland a unique case? I want it to happen but I'm not sure it will; not in my lifetime, anyway. Why do I want it? I care more about living in an actual democracy - where the seats in parliament are an accurate reflection of votes cast (like in Germany) - than I do about the contents of my bank account. It's not a view many people hold, I know - nor would I expect them to. My vote actually meaning something - being able to choose who is, ultimately, running my country - is what I want. There's a high price to be paid for it. I'm ok with that. The majority of Scots aren't - yet. They may never be. But Boris telling us 'I know what's best for you all, take the money and stop moaning' really isn't helping his case.Sounds just like what brexit supporters were saying." Slight differences. What TValive is saying is accurate. | |||
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"Facts sometimes are not enough. Feelings can trump all the facts, as we have seen... Absolutely agree. I was just showing the figures to another poster who was under the illusion Scotland ran a surplus. I have said before if Scotland votes independence then that's what they should have. Agreed. Independence would not be easy at all. Hardly any country runs at a surplus - and we definitely wouldn't. However, having a deficit is no bar to being independent. Is it? Or is Scotland a unique case? I want it to happen but I'm not sure it will; not in my lifetime, anyway. Why do I want it? I care more about living in an actual democracy - where the seats in parliament are an accurate reflection of votes cast (like in Germany) - than I do about the contents of my bank account. It's not a view many people hold, I know - nor would I expect them to. My vote actually meaning something - being able to choose who is, ultimately, running my country - is what I want. There's a high price to be paid for it. I'm ok with that. The majority of Scots aren't - yet. They may never be. But Boris telling us 'I know what's best for you all, take the money and stop moaning' really isn't helping his case." How do you feel about the snp hate crime bill currently trying to get its way into Scottish law ? | |||
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"How do you feel about the SNP hate crime bill currently trying to get its way into Scottish law?" Personally, I don't think it's necessary. There are already laws in place to deal with the crimes covered - and stiffer sentences are available if those crimes are aggravated by various forms of prejudice. I'm not all for everything the Scottish Government do; I never have been. However, as far as representing the interests of Scots (something Labour hasn't done since 1997, or the Tories since 1979) is concerned, I feel they are the best of a bad bunch. They're nowhere near perfect, for sure - but the fact they keep getting re-elected tells you how piss poor their opposition is, up here. I've said it before, I want to live in an actual democracy. If the whole of the UK Parliament were elected by means of PR, I could live with that - within the Union. It would mean any party elected to rule would have to have the support of over 50% of the voters to have a majority. That's important. If it's achieved - and it can be - it gives a legitimacy to govern that FPTP just doesn't. The argument is that PR leads to weak government. It's a weak argument. Anyway, bottom line - I just want everyone's vote to count. Right now, for me, that's only on offer in an independent Scotland. | |||
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"Sounds just like what Brexit supporters were saying." Are you sure you mean supporters? I get the gist of your argument, though. So, opposing Boris is the patriotic thing for me to do. Right? LOL | |||
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"How do you feel about the SNP hate crime bill currently trying to get its way into Scottish law? Personally, I don't think it's necessary. There are already laws in place to deal with the crimes covered - and stiffer sentences are available if those crimes are aggravated by various forms of prejudice. I'm not all for everything the Scottish Government do; I never have been. However, as far as representing the interests of Scots (something Labour hasn't done since 1997, or the Tories since 1979) is concerned, I feel they are the best of a bad bunch. They're nowhere near perfect, for sure - but the fact they keep getting re-elected tells you how piss poor their opposition is, up here. I've said it before, I want to live in an actual democracy. If the whole of the UK Parliament were elected by means of PR, I could live with that - within the Union. It would mean any party elected to rule would have to have the support of over 50% of the voters to have a majority. That's important. If it's achieved - and it can be - it gives a legitimacy to govern that FPTP just doesn't. The argument is that PR leads to weak government. It's a weak argument. Anyway, bottom line - I just want everyone's vote to count. Right now, for me, that's only on offer in an independent Scotland." Nothing wrong in wanting to live in an independent country free to make laws and rules that suit you. It's a basic instinct that has been suppressed for far to long and not just in Scotland. Running a deficit though not good has become the norm these days. Potential problems could be higher repayments and a hurdle to EU membership( if they choose that direction). PR is more representative though can mean what are often fringe parties start getting real power. I think if the UK had PR back in the day ukip / brexit party would have won quite a few seats. | |||
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"Are you suggesting the U.K. government runs at a surplus?" Certainly not and am not sure what gave you that impression. In fact I said a deficit has become the norm these days | |||
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"Nothing wrong in wanting to live in an independent country free to make laws and rules that suit you. It's a basic instinct that has been suppressed for far to long and not just in Scotland. Running a deficit though not good has become the norm these days. Potential problems could be higher repayments and a hurdle to EU membership( if they choose that direction). PR is more representative though can mean what are often fringe parties start getting real power. I think if the UK had PR back in the day ukip / brexit party would have won quite a few seats." Well, not all the laws made might suit me - but I'd obey most of them, as I do now. The whole financial footing / EU issue would indeed be problematic; but problems can be solved - and I don't buy the assertion that Scotland is uniquely incapable of coming up with solutions, nor that other countries will actively obstruct us, should we ever become independent. At the moment, it's still debatable - despite recent opinion polls - that the majority Scots want independence; at the same time that, even if they did, the current UK government would not grant a second independence referendum. Lots of very significant changes would have to happen for Scotland to become independent. I think they probably will - but not for a long time yet. As for the PR / UKIP issue. UKIP had massive power and barely any MPs - they attained it because the Tories ran scared from them. Had they had genuine influence in a UK PR parliament, they'd have been entitled to it, as the AFD in Germany currently are - they represent their voters. It's genuine democracy. You can protest against it, obviously, but a PR parliament has a legitimacy a FPTP one really doesn't. One of the many reasons people don't approve of our current UK government is that it has a majority of 79, even though over half of voters didn't assent to it governing. One more point on small parties having influence in a PR system. It could be argued that the Green Party, in Germany - especially in the last decades of the last century - changed their country (maybe even the world) for the better. Despite those fly bastards at Volkswagen. LOL | |||
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"Scotland has been fed a ton of Anglophobic propoganda by that evil little ginger." Like what? | |||
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"Nothing wrong in wanting to live in an independent country free to make laws and rules that suit you. It's a basic instinct that has been suppressed for far to long and not just in Scotland. Running a deficit though not good has become the norm these days. Potential problems could be higher repayments and a hurdle to EU membership( if they choose that direction). PR is more representative though can mean what are often fringe parties start getting real power. I think if the UK had PR back in the day ukip / brexit party would have won quite a few seats. Well, not all the laws made might suit me - but I'd obey most of them, as I do now. The whole financial footing / EU issue would indeed be problematic; but problems can be solved - and I don't buy the assertion that Scotland is uniquely incapable of coming up with solutions, nor that other countries will actively obstruct us, should we ever become independent. At the moment, it's still debatable - despite recent opinion polls - that the majority Scots want independence; at the same time that, even if they did, the current UK government would not grant a second independence referendum. Lots of very significant changes would have to happen for Scotland to become independent. I think they probably will - but not for a long time yet. As for the PR / UKIP issue. UKIP had massive power and barely any MPs - they attained it because the Tories ran scared from them. Had they had genuine influence in a UK PR parliament, they'd have been entitled to it, as the AFD in Germany currently are - they represent their voters. It's genuine democracy. You can protest against it, obviously, but a PR parliament has a legitimacy a FPTP one really doesn't. One of the many reasons people don't approve of our current UK government is that it has a majority of 79, even though over half of voters didn't assent to it governing. One more point on small parties having influence in a PR system. It could be argued that the Green Party, in Germany - especially in the last decades of the last century - changed their country (maybe even the world) for the better. Despite those fly bastards at Volkswagen. LOL" I could not agree more that although there are financial problems to overcome they can be solved and as an independent country they can be solved in a way that suits the country involved only. There maybe problems with countries like Spain but again not unsolvable. Ukip had significant influence though feel if they had the seats PR would have given them even more power. You do make an excellent point about Germany and the AFD / greens as its more representative | |||
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"Nothing wrong in wanting to live in an independent country free to make laws and rules that suit you. It's a basic instinct that has been suppressed for far to long and not just in Scotland. Running a deficit though not good has become the norm these days. Potential problems could be higher repayments and a hurdle to EU membership( if they choose that direction). PR is more representative though can mean what are often fringe parties start getting real power. I think if the UK had PR back in the day ukip / brexit party would have won quite a few seats. Well, not all the laws made might suit me - but I'd obey most of them, as I do now. The whole financial footing / EU issue would indeed be problematic; but problems can be solved - and I don't buy the assertion that Scotland is uniquely incapable of coming up with solutions, nor that other countries will actively obstruct us, should we ever become independent. At the moment, it's still debatable - despite recent opinion polls - that the majority Scots want independence; at the same time that, even if they did, the current UK government would not grant a second independence referendum. Lots of very significant changes would have to happen for Scotland to become independent. I think they probably will - but not for a long time yet. As for the PR / UKIP issue. UKIP had massive power and barely any MPs - they attained it because the Tories ran scared from them. Had they had genuine influence in a UK PR parliament, they'd have been entitled to it, as the AFD in Germany currently are - they represent their voters. It's genuine democracy. You can protest against it, obviously, but a PR parliament has a legitimacy a FPTP one really doesn't. One of the many reasons people don't approve of our current UK government is that it has a majority of 79, even though over half of voters didn't assent to it governing. One more point on small parties having influence in a PR system. It could be argued that the Green Party, in Germany - especially in the last decades of the last century - changed their country (maybe even the world) for the better. Despite those fly bastards at Volkswagen. LOL I could not agree more that although there are financial problems to overcome they can be solved and as an independent country they can be solved in a way that suits the country involved only. There maybe problems with countries like Spain but again not unsolvable. Ukip had significant influence though feel if they had the seats PR would have given them even more power. You do make an excellent point about Germany and the AFD / greens as its more representative" Well, I guess we'll have to wait and see. I've said it plenty before; it's not impossible. Its likelihood, at the moment, looks like it's increasing. IF it happens at all, it'll be because the UK government failed to make the case for staying in the Union. | |||
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"A good debate thread and mostly good natured too. Genuine question as I dont understand. So for those who seek independence from the UK. Because you want to be an independent country, to make your own laws and your own fiscal policies and currency etc. How is it that in the next breath you wish to become members of the EU where much of that independence will be ceded immediately to them.? To leave one union where you have a small but significant say only to join another union where you will have a considerably smaller say.? " Because they are not English. | |||
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"A good debate thread and mostly good natured too. Genuine question as I dont understand. So for those who seek independence from the UK. Because you want to be an independent country, to make your own laws and your own fiscal policies and currency etc. How is it that in the next breath you wish to become members of the EU where much of that independence will be ceded immediately to them.? To leave one union where you have a small but significant say only to join another union where you will have a considerably smaller say.? " great question can’t wait for the answer lol | |||
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"The old political adage that people do not vote to make themselves poorer. Has been torn up various times in history.. Usually it means that a cult like figure or party has risen , due to dissatisfaction with the staus quo. Like say Trumps USA....Germany in the 30s, Russia 1917,........Scotland has been let down by the demise of a proper Labour govt in the UK. But the answer is not and really will never be the SNP. There rather clueless economics and inability to handle any devolved Govt departments. With any success is testament to the fact. They are a wildly sucessful propaganda and electoral success though. Unfortunately like the above regimes mentioned it never really ends well as it is a house of sand. No currency, no defence , no industrial policy ....6 years after the referendum...Where is the substance? , it is candy floss politics. " Single issue politics is usually disappointing. Look at the last general election... | |||
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"The old political adage that people do not vote to make themselves poorer. Has been torn up various times in history.. Usually it means that a cult like figure or party has risen , due to dissatisfaction with the staus quo. Like say Trumps USA....Germany in the 30s, Russia 1917,........Scotland has been let down by the demise of a proper Labour govt in the UK. But the answer is not and really will never be the SNP. There rather clueless economics and inability to handle any devolved Govt departments. With any success is testament to the fact. They are a wildly sucessful propaganda and electoral success though. Unfortunately like the above regimes mentioned it never really ends well as it is a house of sand. No currency, no defence , no industrial policy ....6 years after the referendum...Where is the substance? , it is candy floss politics." | |||
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"A good debate thread and mostly good natured too. Genuine question as I dont understand. So for those who seek independence from the UK. Because you want to be an independent country, to make your own laws and your own fiscal policies and currency etc. How is it that in the next breath you wish to become members of the EU where much of that independence will be ceded immediately to them.? To leave one union where you have a small but significant say only to join another union where you will have a considerably smaller say.? " Firstly - we don't see membership of the EU as ceding any kind of independence at all. Secondly - as the brexiteer contingent has so ably proved. Should we decide that EU membership is not for us after all. We can just hold a referendum and leave. Not so with the UK, whom we have to obtain permission from to do the same. tl;dr EU membership - voluntary UK membership - involuntary | |||
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"A point that seems to be missed by many of the English, and most of the Tory voters is this......... You get the party you voted for and get brxit that you also voted for. Scotland are often governed by the Tories that we have NEVER voted for and we get dragged out of the EU that we also voted against. That in a nutshell is why many want to be independent, or at least have the choice to be. Tories refusing another vote on the basis that Scotland voted to remain the last time in a once in a generation vote is just another reason to hate the tories. Things would most certainly have went the other way had we known that we would be dragged out of the EU. Polls already show around 55% are now for Indy. Likely to rise again after Brexit kicks in and things go down the tubes." Please explain to us all what "once in a generation" means to you? As its pretty clear to most people. | |||
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"A point that seems to be missed by many of the English, and most of the Tory voters is this......... You get the party you voted for and get brxit that you also voted for. Scotland are often governed by the Tories that we have NEVER voted for and we get dragged out of the EU that we also voted against. That in a nutshell is why many want to be independent, or at least have the choice to be. Tories refusing another vote on the basis that Scotland voted to remain the last time in a once in a generation vote is just another reason to hate the tories. Things would most certainly have went the other way had we known that we would be dragged out of the EU. Polls already show around 55% are now for Indy. Likely to rise again after Brexit kicks in and things go down the tubes. Please explain to us all what "once in a generation" means to you? As its pretty clear to most people. " It means just that. Seems it is too difficult for you to comprehend. You a tory/brexiteer by any chance? | |||
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"A point that seems to be missed by many of the English, and most of the Tory voters is this......... You get the party you voted for and get brxit that you also voted for. Scotland are often governed by the Tories that we have NEVER voted for and we get dragged out of the EU that we also voted against. That in a nutshell is why many want to be independent, or at least have the choice to be. Tories refusing another vote on the basis that Scotland voted to remain the last time in a once in a generation vote is just another reason to hate the tories. Things would most certainly have went the other way had we known that we would be dragged out of the EU. Polls already show around 55% are now for Indy. Likely to rise again after Brexit kicks in and things go down the tubes. Please explain to us all what "once in a generation" means to you? As its pretty clear to most people. It means just that. Seems it is too difficult for you to comprehend. You a tory/brexiteer by any chance? " If you unetand what once in a generation means stop moaning there's 14yrs till the next generation | |||
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"A point that seems to be missed by many of the English, and most of the Tory voters is this......... You get the party you voted for and get brxit that you also voted for. Scotland are often governed by the Tories that we have NEVER voted for and we get dragged out of the EU that we also voted against. That in a nutshell is why many want to be independent, or at least have the choice to be. Tories refusing another vote on the basis that Scotland voted to remain the last time in a once in a generation vote is just another reason to hate the tories. Things would most certainly have went the other way had we known that we would be dragged out of the EU. Polls already show around 55% are now for Indy. Likely to rise again after Brexit kicks in and things go down the tubes. Please explain to us all what "once in a generation" means to you? As its pretty clear to most people. It means just that. Seems it is too difficult for you to comprehend. You a tory/brexiteer by any chance? If you unetand what once in a generation means stop moaning there's 14yrs till the next generation" As i understood the once in a generation vote in scotland, was as staying part of the uk as long as the uk stayed part of the EU, it was a major part of the vote. As Prime minister Dave could not win a vote he never needed to have , makes any agreement null & void in the eyes of those who signed up for it in Scotland. Time they had a New vote. In 10 years all that will be left of the Union will be Wales & england. | |||
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"A point that seems to be missed by many of the English, and most of the Tory voters is this......... You get the party you voted for and get brxit that you also voted for. Scotland are often governed by the Tories that we have NEVER voted for and we get dragged out of the EU that we also voted against. That in a nutshell is why many want to be independent, or at least have the choice to be. Tories refusing another vote on the basis that Scotland voted to remain the last time in a once in a generation vote is just another reason to hate the tories. Things would most certainly have went the other way had we known that we would be dragged out of the EU. Polls already show around 55% are now for Indy. Likely to rise again after Brexit kicks in and things go down the tubes. Please explain to us all what "once in a generation" means to you? As its pretty clear to most people. It means just that. Seems it is too difficult for you to comprehend. You a tory/brexiteer by any chance? " Next vote is in 2039 then, as a generation is widely defined as 25 years. And it was the SNP leadership that used that phrase, probably as some sort of veiled threat. | |||
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"A point that seems to be missed by many of the English, and most of the Tory voters is this......... You get the party you voted for and get brxit that you also voted for. Scotland are often governed by the Tories that we have NEVER voted for and we get dragged out of the EU that we also voted against. That in a nutshell is why many want to be independent, or at least have the choice to be. Tories refusing another vote on the basis that Scotland voted to remain the last time in a once in a generation vote is just another reason to hate the tories. Things would most certainly have went the other way had we known that we would be dragged out of the EU. Polls already show around 55% are now for Indy. Likely to rise again after Brexit kicks in and things go down the tubes. Please explain to us all what "once in a generation" means to you? As its pretty clear to most people. It means just that. Seems it is too difficult for you to comprehend. You a tory/brexiteer by any chance? If you unetand what once in a generation means stop moaning there's 14yrs till the next generation As i understood the once in a generation vote in scotland, was as staying part of the uk as long as the uk stayed part of the EU, it was a major part of the vote. As Prime minister Dave could not win a vote he never needed to have , makes any agreement null & void in the eyes of those who signed up for it in Scotland. Time they had a New vote. In 10 years all that will be left of the Union will be Wales & england." Good to see that someone understands | |||
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"The old political adage that people do not vote to make themselves poorer. Has been torn up various times in history.. Usually it means that a cult like figure or party has risen , due to dissatisfaction with the staus quo. Like say Trumps USA....Germany in the 30s, Russia 1917,........Scotland has been let down by the demise of a proper Labour govt in the UK. But the answer is not and really will never be the SNP. There rather clueless economics and inability to handle any devolved Govt departments. With any success is testament to the fact. They are a wildly sucessful propaganda and electoral success though. Unfortunately like the above regimes mentioned it never really ends well as it is a house of sand. No currency, no defence , no industrial policy ....6 years after the referendum...Where is the substance? , it is candy floss politics." Maybe they’ve seen the English Parliament at work and thought that’s how crap they have to be before they can take control. They have a long way to go down yet though. | |||
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"A point that seems to be missed by many of the English, and most of the Tory voters is this......... You get the party you voted for and get brxit that you also voted for. Scotland are often governed by the Tories that we have NEVER voted for and we get dragged out of the EU that we also voted against. That in a nutshell is why many want to be independent, or at least have the choice to be. Tories refusing another vote on the basis that Scotland voted to remain the last time in a once in a generation vote is just another reason to hate the tories. Things would most certainly have went the other way had we known that we would be dragged out of the EU. Polls already show around 55% are now for Indy. Likely to rise again after Brexit kicks in and things go down the tubes. Please explain to us all what "once in a generation" means to you? As its pretty clear to most people. " The once in a generation argument is irrelevant now. Had Indy ref taken a generation ago I don't believe that there has been a single event since then that would have given reason to require another referendum. Scots want to be in the EU. I voted No to independence and Remain. Brexit has likely changed my view on independence as has the direction this government has dragged the whole country. | |||
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"The old political adage that people do not vote to make themselves poorer. Has been torn up various times in history.. Usually it means that a cult like figure or party has risen , due to dissatisfaction with the staus quo. Like say Trumps USA....Germany in the 30s, Russia 1917,........Scotland has been let down by the demise of a proper Labour govt in the UK. But the answer is not and really will never be the SNP. There rather clueless economics and inability to handle any devolved Govt departments. With any success is testament to the fact. They are a wildly sucessful propaganda and electoral success though. Unfortunately like the above regimes mentioned it never really ends well as it is a house of sand. No currency, no defence , no industrial policy ....6 years after the referendum...Where is the substance? , it is candy floss politics. Maybe they’ve seen the English Parliament at work and thought that’s how crap they have to be before they can take control. They have a long way to go down yet though. " An English parliament does not exist. Maybe if Scotland get independence there will be one but its not a given. Brexit has added a further scenario to Scotland being independent. Before they planned to leave the UK and join the EU with the remaining UK also in the EU. The UK deal with the EU could make a hard border from Scotland to England | |||
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"The old political adage that people do not vote to make themselves poorer. Has been torn up various times in history.. Usually it means that a cult like figure or party has risen , due to dissatisfaction with the staus quo. Like say Trumps USA....Germany in the 30s, Russia 1917,........Scotland has been let down by the demise of a proper Labour govt in the UK. But the answer is not and really will never be the SNP. There rather clueless economics and inability to handle any devolved Govt departments. With any success is testament to the fact. They are a wildly sucessful propaganda and electoral success though. Unfortunately like the above regimes mentioned it never really ends well as it is a house of sand. No currency, no defence , no industrial policy ....6 years after the referendum...Where is the substance? , it is candy floss politics. Maybe they’ve seen the English Parliament at work and thought that’s how crap they have to be before they can take control. They have a long way to go down yet though. An English parliament does not exist. Maybe if Scotland get independence there will be one but its not a given. Brexit has added a further scenario to Scotland being independent. Before they planned to leave the UK and join the EU with the remaining UK also in the EU. The UK deal with the EU could make a hard border from Scotland to England" You are correct it doesn’t exist . I was making a point about how useless our parliament is that’s all. I’m sad we’re even considering breaking up the union. I regret its seeing the self destruction going on that any escape would be preferable for most reasonable people. . | |||
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"I don't blame the Scottish for wanting independent country, but don't think the ordinary Scots will be better off, probably worse off if anything, but it's about time Northern Ireland voted on unification with the Republic in view of the brexit vote and nationalist majority in all fairness. I don't think the break up of the UK would be so bad, each country has its own identity and agenda " Being a free independent country is a strong pull and often outweighs potential financial problems. How do you put a price on free and independence? | |||
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"I don't blame the Scottish for wanting independent country, but don't think the ordinary Scots will be better off, probably worse off if anything, but it's about time Northern Ireland voted on unification with the Republic in view of the brexit vote and nationalist majority in all fairness. I don't think the break up of the UK would be so bad, each country has its own identity and agenda Being a free independent country is a strong pull and often outweighs potential financial problems. How do you put a price on free and independence?" The world is a much smaller place run by massive global business. There is no real freedom and we are all tied financially. The voters in all countries changes the faces in their parliaments but the real power behind the thrones never change. Money talks louder than voters and drowns out democracy. | |||
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"I don't blame the Scottish for wanting independent country, but don't think the ordinary Scots will be better off, probably worse off if anything, but it's about time Northern Ireland voted on unification with the Republic in view of the brexit vote and nationalist majority in all fairness. I don't think the break up of the UK would be so bad, each country has its own identity and agenda Being a free independent country is a strong pull and often outweighs potential financial problems. How do you put a price on free and independence?" Because it’s a business, that’s what most Scots cannot grasp, you need more coming in than you put out, Scotland cannot do that, it does not have the resources. The SNP rely on old anti english hysteria to muster a force, but they have nothing to back it up. It’s never been Scots be English, it’s been prot v catholic throughout history. The whole thing is pathetic. | |||
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"I don't blame the Scottish for wanting independent country, but don't think the ordinary Scots will be better off, probably worse off if anything, but it's about time Northern Ireland voted on unification with the Republic in view of the brexit vote and nationalist majority in all fairness. I don't think the break up of the UK would be so bad, each country has its own identity and agenda Being a free independent country is a strong pull and often outweighs potential financial problems. How do you put a price on free and independence? Because it’s a business, that’s what most Scots cannot grasp, you need more coming in than you put out, Scotland cannot do that, it does not have the resources. The SNP rely on old anti english hysteria to muster a force, but they have nothing to back it up. It’s never been Scots be English, it’s been prot v catholic throughout history. The whole thing is pathetic. " Nations are not businesses. That's a simple minded argument; especially considering the world's largest economy is $23.7 trillion in debt and - this FY alone, has a deficit of $744 billion. The UK doesn't run at a surplus either; nor do the majority of the worlds's economies. So, why must Scotland - almost uniquely - be required to run without a deficit? Financially, we'd be worse off, yes. Politically, we'd be far better off - because we'd live in a genuinely representative democracy. Whatever else the UK is, it's not that. Just under 44% of votes cast giving a majority of 80 seats in the HoC isn't representative. | |||
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"I don't blame the Scottish for wanting independent country, but don't think the ordinary Scots will be better off, probably worse off if anything, but it's about time Northern Ireland voted on unification with the Republic in view of the brexit vote and nationalist majority in all fairness. I don't think the break up of the UK would be so bad, each country has its own identity and agenda Being a free independent country is a strong pull and often outweighs potential financial problems. How do you put a price on free and independence? Because it’s a business, that’s what most Scots cannot grasp, you need more coming in than you put out, Scotland cannot do that, it does not have the resources. The SNP rely on old anti english hysteria to muster a force, but they have nothing to back it up. It’s never been Scots be English, it’s been prot v catholic throughout history. The whole thing is pathetic. " The UK ran a budget surplus last in 2001 Going by your rationale The UK should be long shut | |||
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"I don't blame the Scottish for wanting independent country, but don't think the ordinary Scots will be better off, probably worse off if anything, but it's about time Northern Ireland voted on unification with the Republic in view of the brexit vote and nationalist majority in all fairness. I don't think the break up of the UK would be so bad, each country has its own identity and agenda Being a free independent country is a strong pull and often outweighs potential financial problems. How do you put a price on free and independence? Because it’s a business, that’s what most Scots cannot grasp, you need more coming in than you put out, Scotland cannot do that, it does not have the resources. The SNP rely on old anti english hysteria to muster a force, but they have nothing to back it up. It’s never been Scots be English, it’s been prot v catholic throughout history. The whole thing is pathetic. Nations are not businesses. That's a simple minded argument; especially considering the world's largest economy is $23.7 trillion in debt and - this FY alone, has a deficit of $744 billion. The UK doesn't run at a surplus either; nor do the majority of the worlds's economies. So, why must Scotland - almost uniquely - be required to run without a deficit? Financially, we'd be worse off, yes. Politically, we'd be far better off - because we'd live in a genuinely representative democracy. Whatever else the UK is, it's not that. Just under 44% of votes cast giving a majority of 80 seats in the HoC isn't representative." Nailed it. Nations are not businesses and this decision (sidestepping the weird diversion into sectarianism) is nothing to do with Scotland vs England. I'm more interested in who is best placed to make decisions about Scotland. As brexit and the ongoing Tory leadership shows, Scots are being forced into decisions which run counter to our collective political will. | |||
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"is this the same independence and freedom party that have just BANNED MUSIC you cant make it up lol" Well you just have . | |||
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"I don't blame the Scottish for wanting independent country, but don't think the ordinary Scots will be better off, probably worse off if anything, but it's about time Northern Ireland voted on unification with the Republic in view of the brexit vote and nationalist majority in all fairness. I don't think the break up of the UK would be so bad, each country has its own identity and agenda Being a free independent country is a strong pull and often outweighs potential financial problems. How do you put a price on free and independence? Because it’s a business, that’s what most Scots cannot grasp, you need more coming in than you put out, Scotland cannot do that, it does not have the resources. The SNP rely on old anti english hysteria to muster a force, but they have nothing to back it up. It’s never been Scots be English, it’s been prot v catholic throughout history. The whole thing is pathetic. " Where does sectarianism fit into it? | |||
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"I don't blame the Scottish for wanting independent country, but don't think the ordinary Scots will be better off, probably worse off if anything, but it's about time Northern Ireland voted on unification with the Republic in view of the brexit vote and nationalist majority in all fairness. I don't think the break up of the UK would be so bad, each country has its own identity and agenda Being a free independent country is a strong pull and often outweighs potential financial problems. How do you put a price on free and independence? Because it’s a business, that’s what most Scots cannot grasp, you need more coming in than you put out, Scotland cannot do that, it does not have the resources. The SNP rely on old anti english hysteria to muster a force, but they have nothing to back it up. It’s never been Scots be English, it’s been prot v catholic throughout history. The whole thing is pathetic. Nations are not businesses. That's a simple minded argument; especially considering the world's largest economy is $23.7 trillion in debt and - this FY alone, has a deficit of $744 billion. The UK doesn't run at a surplus either; nor do the majority of the worlds's economies. So, why must Scotland - almost uniquely - be required to run without a deficit? Financially, we'd be worse off, yes. Politically, we'd be far better off - because we'd live in a genuinely representative democracy. Whatever else the UK is, it's not that. Just under 44% of votes cast giving a majority of 80 seats in the HoC isn't representative." Your right many countries run a deficit so Scotland would not be unique in that. What maybe a problem is how much Scotland is charged for running a deficit by the international markets. Also the deficit is a potential blocking point to the EU that is supposedly a rules based organization. They have limits for countries joining and Scotland's would be far above the limit. For me the main thing they need to get right at any future referendum is having a proper plan for a currency | |||
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"I don't blame the Scottish for wanting independent country, but don't think the ordinary Scots will be better off, probably worse off if anything, but it's about time Northern Ireland voted on unification with the Republic in view of the brexit vote and nationalist majority in all fairness. I don't think the break up of the UK would be so bad, each country has its own identity and agenda Being a free independent country is a strong pull and often outweighs potential financial problems. How do you put a price on free and independence? Because it’s a business, that’s what most Scots cannot grasp, you need more coming in than you put out, Scotland cannot do that, it does not have the resources. The SNP rely on old anti english hysteria to muster a force, but they have nothing to back it up. It’s never been Scots be English, it’s been prot v catholic throughout history. The whole thing is pathetic. Nations are not businesses. That's a simple minded argument; especially considering the world's largest economy is $23.7 trillion in debt and - this FY alone, has a deficit of $744 billion. The UK doesn't run at a surplus either; nor do the majority of the worlds's economies. So, why must Scotland - almost uniquely - be required to run without a deficit? Financially, we'd be worse off, yes. Politically, we'd be far better off - because we'd live in a genuinely representative democracy. Whatever else the UK is, it's not that. Just under 44% of votes cast giving a majority of 80 seats in the HoC isn't representative." Spot on. | |||
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"They want to be part of the EU project, so go for the euro. English nationalists don't want to be in the EU project, that is why the elite try to destroy English identity in the guise of multiculturalism, to try to foist it upon us. It is the powerful elite with the money who control the establishment, I think a lot of Scottish people would be greatly disappointed when the flag waving ends to see nothing really changed for the peasants and they were better uniting with the English peasants after all. Wat Tyler, a great brave man, who was English and a true peasants leader, I wander if Mel Gibson will make a movie about him? I think not as he was English, and Mel does not like the English or Jewish people. Just makes grossly inaccurate movies that pander to is whims of disrespectful treatment of the English people. " Starts with EU conspiracy rant... ends with Mel Gibson rant... | |||
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"I don't blame the Scottish for wanting independent country, but don't think the ordinary Scots will be better off, probably worse off if anything, but it's about time Northern Ireland voted on unification with the Republic in view of the brexit vote and nationalist majority in all fairness. I don't think the break up of the UK would be so bad, each country has its own identity and agenda Being a free independent country is a strong pull and often outweighs potential financial problems. How do you put a price on free and independence? Because it’s a business, that’s what most Scots cannot grasp, you need more coming in than you put out, Scotland cannot do that, it does not have the resources. The SNP rely on old anti english hysteria to muster a force, but they have nothing to back it up. It’s never been Scots be English, it’s been prot v catholic throughout history. The whole thing is pathetic. Nations are not businesses. That's a simple minded argument; especially considering the world's largest economy is $23.7 trillion in debt and - this FY alone, has a deficit of $744 billion. The UK doesn't run at a surplus either; nor do the majority of the worlds's economies. So, why must Scotland - almost uniquely - be required to run without a deficit? Financially, we'd be worse off, yes. Politically, we'd be far better off - because we'd live in a genuinely representative democracy. Whatever else the UK is, it's not that. Just under 44% of votes cast giving a majority of 80 seats in the HoC isn't representative. Your right many countries run a deficit so Scotland would not be unique in that. What maybe a problem is how much Scotland is charged for running a deficit by the international markets. Also the deficit is a potential blocking point to the EU that is supposedly a rules based organization. They have limits for countries joining and Scotland's would be far above the limit. For me the main thing they need to get right at any future referendum is having a proper plan for a currency" It's not a limit as such (3%). Joining is possible even when deficit is above. Scotland will need to demonstrate a plan for reducing the deficit. Croatia joined in 2013, when their deficit was at 5.3 per cent of GDP. | |||
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"A point that seems to be missed by many of the English, and most of the Tory voters is this......... You get the party you voted for and get brxit that you also voted for. Scotland are often governed by the Tories that we have NEVER voted for and we get dragged out of the EU that we also voted against. That in a nutshell is why many want to be independent, or at least have the choice to be. Tories refusing another vote on the basis that Scotland voted to remain the last time in a once in a generation vote is just another reason to hate the tories. Things would most certainly have went the other way had we known that we would be dragged out of the EU. Polls already show around 55% are now for Indy. Likely to rise again after Brexit kicks in and things go down the tubes." To quote you... You get the party you voted for you get the brexit you voted for... That's how democracy worked. So you had a once in a generation referendum... You get the result you voted for. But some of you don't respect that result as its not the result you wanted... So you want to keep having a rerun until you get the outcome you want. It's very divisive. I think it would have more credibility if the holyrood elected had made a level of success... But they really haven't. | |||
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"They want to be part of the EU project, so go for the euro. English nationalists don't want to be in the EU project, that is why the elite try to destroy English identity in the guise of multiculturalism, to try to foist it upon us. It is the powerful elite with the money who control the establishment, I think a lot of Scottish people would be greatly disappointed when the flag waving ends to see nothing really changed for the peasants and they were better uniting with the English peasants after all. Wat Tyler, a great brave man, who was English and a true peasants leader, I wander if Mel Gibson will make a movie about him? I think not as he was English, and Mel does not like the English or Jewish people. Just makes grossly inaccurate movies that pander to is whims of disrespectful treatment of the English people. " You do realise it's the "powerful elite" that wanted us out (and have done for years)? I would extend your statement regarding peasants. There is strength in numbers, UK peasants have reduced our strength by leaving the EU. Already we see how this government is damaging the chances and lives of the less well off. It'll be getting worse when they start to wind back the protections we had from EU laws... | |||
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"I don't blame the Scottish for wanting independent country, but don't think the ordinary Scots will be better off, probably worse off if anything, but it's about time Northern Ireland voted on unification with the Republic in view of the brexit vote and nationalist majority in all fairness. I don't think the break up of the UK would be so bad, each country has its own identity and agenda Being a free independent country is a strong pull and often outweighs potential financial problems. How do you put a price on free and independence? Because it’s a business, that’s what most Scots cannot grasp, you need more coming in than you put out, Scotland cannot do that, it does not have the resources. The SNP rely on old anti english hysteria to muster a force, but they have nothing to back it up. It’s never been Scots be English, it’s been prot v catholic throughout history. The whole thing is pathetic. Nations are not businesses. That's a simple minded argument; especially considering the world's largest economy is $23.7 trillion in debt and - this FY alone, has a deficit of $744 billion. The UK doesn't run at a surplus either; nor do the majority of the worlds's economies. So, why must Scotland - almost uniquely - be required to run without a deficit? Financially, we'd be worse off, yes. Politically, we'd be far better off - because we'd live in a genuinely representative democracy. Whatever else the UK is, it's not that. Just under 44% of votes cast giving a majority of 80 seats in the HoC isn't representative. Your right many countries run a deficit so Scotland would not be unique in that. What maybe a problem is how much Scotland is charged for running a deficit by the international markets. Also the deficit is a potential blocking point to the EU that is supposedly a rules based organization. They have limits for countries joining and Scotland's would be far above the limit. For me the main thing they need to get right at any future referendum is having a proper plan for a currency It's not a limit as such (3%). Joining is possible even when deficit is above. Scotland will need to demonstrate a plan for reducing the deficit. Croatia joined in 2013, when their deficit was at 5.3 per cent of GDP. " According to the EU its the limit. However they do bend there own rules when it suits. Many plans will need to be produced. Not sure what their plans are for reducing it and will depend on how much they have to pay to service their debt | |||
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"The EU project is not all bad but I completely disagreed with open borders, a nation as the right to control who comes and lives here it was and still is way to open. Britain should prioritise its own blood, not be a open house for all , and sundry. I agree with trump in the USA saying if people want to come to America use the correct channels, don't just roll up, illegally. The man is correct on that, so is Victor oban in Hungary. " Im fairly sure we do decide who gets to live here tbh. | |||
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"The EU project is not all bad but I completely disagreed with open borders, a nation as the right to control who comes and lives here it was and still is way to open. Britain should prioritise its own blood, not be a open house for all , and sundry. I agree with trump in the USA saying if people want to come to America use the correct channels, don't just roll up, illegally. The man is correct on that, so is Victor oban in Hungary. " You actually had the right to control your borders whilst in the EU but successive governments of yours chose not? You do realize that | |||
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"The EU project is not all bad but I completely disagreed with open borders, a nation as the right to control who comes and lives here it was and still is way to open. Britain should prioritise its own blood, not be a open house for all , and sundry. I agree with trump in the USA saying if people want to come to America use the correct channels, don't just roll up, illegally. The man is correct on that, so is Victor oban in Hungary. You actually had the right to control your borders whilst in the EU but successive governments of yours chose not? You do realize that " I'm more curious about British "blood". There's no such thing, either scientifically, or legally. If you have a UK passport, you are British, that's all there is to it. | |||
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"A point that seems to be missed by many of the English, and most of the Tory voters is this......... You get the party you voted for and get brxit that you also voted for. Scotland are often governed by the Tories that we have NEVER voted for and we get dragged out of the EU that we also voted against. That in a nutshell is why many want to be independent, or at least have the choice to be. Tories refusing another vote on the basis that Scotland voted to remain the last time in a once in a generation vote is just another reason to hate the tories. Things would most certainly have went the other way had we known that we would be dragged out of the EU. Polls already show around 55% are now for Indy. Likely to rise again after Brexit kicks in and things go down the tubes. To quote you... You get the party you voted for you get the brexit you voted for... That's how democracy worked. So you had a once in a generation referendum... You get the result you voted for. But some of you don't respect that result as its not the result you wanted... So you want to keep having a rerun until you get the outcome you want. It's very divisive. I think it would have more credibility if the holyrood elected had made a level of success... But they really haven't. " The "You" in my post refers to the English Tory. They voted for tory and also voted for brexit so yes democracy prevailed. I have no issue with that. My issue is that Scotland voted against both in huge numbers but are forced to accept it. Where does that leave your democracy ? As for the once in a generation part, yes that was probably accepted by most of us Scots as that was democratic. When we are dragged out of the EU then that changes the playing field completely and should be entitled to anothe Referendum. Tories are shit scared to give us one. I wonder why if we are seen to be such a drain on england ? | |||
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"The main problem is that EVERY politicians lie to suit their 0wn aims and agenda. Therefore the general public will never ever have the correct information available to them to make the appropriate correct decisions at any referendum. Any outcome will just be a shot 9n the dark and pray & hope unfortunately " No they dint. | |||
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"I don't blame the Scottish for wanting independent country, but don't think the ordinary Scots will be better off, probably worse off if anything, but it's about time Northern Ireland voted on unification with the Republic in view of the brexit vote and nationalist majority in all fairness. I don't think the break up of the UK would be so bad, each country has its own identity and agenda Being a free independent country is a strong pull and often outweighs potential financial problems. How do you put a price on free and independence?" You can't. The loss of Scotland, to the UK government is - very clearly - not a financial issue. I've said this plenty of times before; for them, the bottom line is that they fear the loss of a third of the UK's landmass, all the waters that surround it - and a place to park Trident (and its replacement) that won't frighten anyone who lives on the seaside, down south. Scottish independence is an entirely political issue - but it's argued about entirely in financial terms; in order to convince people that, of all the countries in the world, Scotland cannot, under any circumstances, survive as a viable small state, outwith the UK. That argument, by its very nature, is utter bollocks. If New Zealand and Ireland can do it; why can't Scotland? Nobody ever wants to address that. | |||
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