FabSwingers.com > Forums > Politics > Russia
Russia
Jump to: Newest in thread
| |||
"Does anyone actually think this report is going to be damaging?Clearly there is something in there but I just cant see them releasing anything too explosive Strangely in recent days there have been a few Russia related stories making the headlines..The report on the NHS corbyn got was allegedly leaked by the Russians,they are close to an antidote and they have been spying on our research (but obviously not vice versa) Strangely I haven't read much about Russian oligarchs giving the Tories loads of money. I know Putin is not a nice chatacter and they get upto a load of devious shit but this whole game Is reminiscent of the cold war when the Russians were portrayed as monsters.Internatinal relations are never that clear cut. As an aside watch the Americans.. its boss." The Russians make great TV programmes if that helps. But I'll wait for thr report before I make-up what I think is in it.  | |||
"Does anyone actually think this report is going to be damaging?Clearly there is something in there but I just cant see them releasing anything too explosive Strangely in recent days there have been a few Russia related stories making the headlines..The report on the NHS corbyn got was allegedly leaked by the Russians,they are close to an antidote and they have been spying on our research (but obviously not vice versa) Strangely I haven't read much about Russian oligarchs giving the Tories loads of money. I know Putin is not a nice chatacter and they get upto a load of devious shit but this whole game Is reminiscent of the cold war when the Russians were portrayed as monsters.Internatinal relations are never that clear cut. As an aside watch the Americans.. its boss." I don't think there will be a great deal in it,or I think Dominic grieve would have said something or pushed more for its release seeing as he wrote the report as he was chair of the committee at the time and was at odds with the government too. | |||
"Does anyone actually think this report is going to be damaging?Clearly there is something in there but I just cant see them releasing anything too explosive Strangely in recent days there have been a few Russia related stories making the headlines..The report on the NHS corbyn got was allegedly leaked by the Russians,they are close to an antidote and they have been spying on our research (but obviously not vice versa) Strangely I haven't read much about Russian oligarchs giving the Tories loads of money. I know Putin is not a nice chatacter and they get upto a load of devious shit but this whole game Is reminiscent of the cold war when the Russians were portrayed as monsters.Internatinal relations are never that clear cut. As an aside watch the Americans.. its boss. I don't think there will be a great deal in it,or I think Dominic grieve would have said something or pushed more for its release seeing as he wrote the report as he was chair of the committee at the time and was at odds with the government too." Doms a Russian spy Why else was he there so long when he was young ? | |||
"Does anyone actually think this report is going to be damaging?Clearly there is something in there but I just cant see them releasing anything too explosive Strangely in recent days there have been a few Russia related stories making the headlines..The report on the NHS corbyn got was allegedly leaked by the Russians,they are close to an antidote and they have been spying on our research (but obviously not vice versa) Strangely I haven't read much about Russian oligarchs giving the Tories loads of money. I know Putin is not a nice chatacter and they get upto a load of devious shit but this whole game Is reminiscent of the cold war when the Russians were portrayed as monsters.Internatinal relations are never that clear cut. As an aside watch the Americans.. its boss. I don't think there will be a great deal in it,or I think Dominic grieve would have said something or pushed more for its release seeing as he wrote the report as he was chair of the committee at the time and was at odds with the government too. Doms a Russian spy Why else was he there so long when he was young ?" Yeah he spent a few years there today. That hounding of Corbyn today by sky was a disgrace. For all their faults at least the bbc never scrape the gutter. | |||
" That hounding of Corbyn today by sky was a disgrace. For all their faults at least the bbc never scrape the gutter." Really? Well they didn't photoshop the comrade style hat but they did put him on a Russia Background Poster on Newsnight. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-43463496  | |||
" That hounding of Corbyn today by sky was a disgrace. For all their faults at least the bbc never scrape the gutter. Really? Well they didn't photoshop the comrade style hat but they did put him on a Russia Background Poster on Newsnight. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-43463496 "Stupid thing to find and they should have apologised. Massive difference between harraunging a man who isnt even the leader anymore on his doorstep and then making up his response.Its sewer levels type of behaviour. Didn't they agree not to do this anymore? | |||
| |||
"That's a wider discussion, but you said that the BBC don't scrape the barrel. In this case they did." No they really didn't. Even as a Corbyn fan there is a massive difference between the 2 examples. | |||
"That's a wider discussion, but you said that the BBC don't scrape the barrel. In this case they did. No they really didn't. Even as a Corbyn fan there is a massive difference between the 2 examples." See thats the thing that Russia doesnt care about, Russia only cares for Russia, they will play everybody & attack everybody , them leave & laugh whilst everyone left attacks each other. Russia was left to struggle when the EU backed away from a better deal, when the U.S cut ties with them Banning cheese & other imports etc left Russia very weak Putin & Russia got strong again & are back to doing what they do best. Sew distrust everywhere & in the meantime make themselves strong again. Look at the world powers The U.S Europe (EU ) China & Russia. Look at the new wealth Brazil India & China . Russia looks weak amongst that lot . But if Russia plays them all & sets them all against each other , then Russia can strengthen . They are masters at it. Europe is now weak The U.S is weak India can be made weak very easily Brazil also weakened very easily. This leaves Russia one real friend or foe which is China. | |||
"That's a wider discussion, but you said that the BBC don't scrape the barrel. In this case they did. No they really didn't. Even as a Corbyn fan there is a massive difference between the 2 examples. See thats the thing that Russia doesnt care about, Russia only cares for Russia, they will play everybody & attack everybody , them leave & laugh whilst everyone left attacks each other. Russia was left to struggle when the EU backed away from a better deal, when the U.S cut ties with them Banning cheese & other imports etc left Russia very weak Putin & Russia got strong again & are back to doing what they do best. Sew distrust everywhere & in the meantime make themselves strong again. Look at the world powers The U.S Europe (EU ) China & Russia. Look at the new wealth Brazil India & China . Russia looks weak amongst that lot . But if Russia plays them all & sets them all against each other , then Russia can strengthen . They are masters at it. Europe is now weak The U.S is weak India can be made weak very easily Brazil also weakened very easily. This leaves Russia one real friend or foe which is China." China values and coverts the vast unoccupied lands along there common border for its space to expand its populace into and its natural resources and would happily occupy them if it could Russia & China are in no way friends other than where it is beneficial to them both the Chinese thin the west are nothing but uncultured barbarians and the Russians somewhere below that there to be taken and conquered | |||
"That's a wider discussion, but you said that the BBC don't scrape the barrel. In this case they did. No they really didn't. Even as a Corbyn fan there is a massive difference between the 2 examples. See thats the thing that Russia doesnt care about, Russia only cares for Russia, they will play everybody & attack everybody , them leave & laugh whilst everyone left attacks each other. Russia was left to struggle when the EU backed away from a better deal, when the U.S cut ties with them Banning cheese & other imports etc left Russia very weak Putin & Russia got strong again & are back to doing what they do best. Sew distrust everywhere & in the meantime make themselves strong again. Look at the world powers The U.S Europe (EU ) China & Russia. Look at the new wealth Brazil India & China . Russia looks weak amongst that lot . But if Russia plays them all & sets them all against each other , then Russia can strengthen . They are masters at it. Europe is now weak The U.S is weak India can be made weak very easily Brazil also weakened very easily. This leaves Russia one real friend or foe which is China." You would be typing this in German if it wasn't for the Russians.
They have been our allies more than they have been our foes (and they didn't but up the worlds supply of the Coronavirus drug either. Who did. eh? | |||
| |||
" You would be typing this in German if it wasn't for the Russians.
They have been our allies more than they have been our foes (and they didn't but up the worlds supply of the Coronavirus drug either. Who did. eh?"meant to say "buy up" | |||
"That's a wider discussion, but you said that the BBC don't scrape the barrel. In this case they did. No they really didn't. Even as a Corbyn fan there is a massive difference between the 2 examples. See thats the thing that Russia doesnt care about, Russia only cares for Russia, they will play everybody & attack everybody , them leave & laugh whilst everyone left attacks each other. Russia was left to struggle when the EU backed away from a better deal, when the U.S cut ties with them Banning cheese & other imports etc left Russia very weak Putin & Russia got strong again & are back to doing what they do best. Sew distrust everywhere & in the meantime make themselves strong again. Look at the world powers The U.S Europe (EU ) China & Russia. Look at the new wealth Brazil India & China . Russia looks weak amongst that lot . But if Russia plays them all & sets them all against each other , then Russia can strengthen . They are masters at it. Europe is now weak The U.S is weak India can be made weak very easily Brazil also weakened very easily. This leaves Russia one real friend or foe which is China." Very cynical view of russia I agree they do get upto some shenanigans..I just don't if I believe everything the media says about them. Like when that spy got poisoned and it made massive headlines..surely I wasn't the only one thinking.. haven't they seen James bond?surely it's an occupational hazard? And what do mi5 and mi6 get upto? Btw are they not allies with Syria? | |||
"Does anyone actually think this report is going to be damaging?Clearly there is something in there but I just cant see them releasing anything too explosive Strangely in recent days there have been a few Russia related stories making the headlines..The report on the NHS corbyn got was allegedly leaked by the Russians,they are close to an antidote and they have been spying on our research (but obviously not vice versa) Strangely I haven't read much about Russian oligarchs giving the Tories loads of money. I know Putin is not a nice chatacter and they get upto a load of devious shit but this whole game Is reminiscent of the cold war when the Russians were portrayed as monsters.Internatinal relations are never that clear cut. As an aside watch the Americans.. its boss. I don't think there will be a great deal in it,or I think Dominic grieve would have said something or pushed more for its release seeing as he wrote the report as he was chair of the committee at the time and was at odds with the government too. Doms a Russian spy Why else was he there so long when he was young ?" lol maybe, gotta say though he don't really seem like the type of guy to be a spy, or what I imagine a spy to be anyway lol,he was just so against the government at the time the report was compiled that I would of thought if it had something explosive that could of harmed the government he would of let it out in my opinion anyway. | |||
"Does anyone actually think this report is going to be damaging?Clearly there is something in there but I just cant see them releasing anything too explosive Strangely in recent days there have been a few Russia related stories making the headlines..The report on the NHS corbyn got was allegedly leaked by the Russians,they are close to an antidote and they have been spying on our research (but obviously not vice versa) Strangely I haven't read much about Russian oligarchs giving the Tories loads of money. I know Putin is not a nice chatacter and they get upto a load of devious shit but this whole game Is reminiscent of the cold war when the Russians were portrayed as monsters.Internatinal relations are never that clear cut. As an aside watch the Americans.. its boss." I'll wait and see. I suspect nobody will be too surprised if some tories have connections with dodgy Russians. They're all fans of unregulated capitalism, after all. Putin and his friends are gangsters who don't have to worry about what the people think, or getting elected, or being jailed for the crimes they commit. If they have interfered in our politics, maybe it wasn't just themselves they were trying to help out? If they got something they wanted, it's a lot more likely to have been due to them taking advantage of "useful idiots", than being actively helped; which would be some small comfort. We'll find out eventually. Maybe. | |||
"Does anyone actually think this report is going to be damaging?Clearly there is something in there but I just cant see them releasing anything too explosive Strangely in recent days there have been a few Russia related stories making the headlines..The report on the NHS corbyn got was allegedly leaked by the Russians,they are close to an antidote and they have been spying on our research (but obviously not vice versa) Strangely I haven't read much about Russian oligarchs giving the Tories loads of money. I know Putin is not a nice chatacter and they get upto a load of devious shit but this whole game Is reminiscent of the cold war when the Russians were portrayed as monsters.Internatinal relations are never that clear cut. As an aside watch the Americans.. its boss. I'll wait and see. I suspect nobody will be too surprised if some tories have connections with dodgy Russians. They're all fans of unregulated capitalism, after all. Putin and his friends are gangsters who don't have to worry about what the people think, or getting elected, or being jailed for the crimes they commit. If they have interfered in our politics, maybe it wasn't just themselves they were trying to help out? If they got something they wanted, it's a lot more likely to have been due to them taking advantage of "useful idiots", than being actively helped; which would be some small comfort. We'll find out eventually. Maybe." It's fairly common knowledge that a fair few oligarchs have ploughed money into Tory coffers.Which begs the question.. just what are they getting for their rubles? Which makes the 'comrade Corbyn'tag even more ironic. | |||
" It's fairly common knowledge that a fair few oligarchs have ploughed money into Tory coffers.Which begs the question.. just what are they getting for their rubles? Which makes the 'comrade Corbyn'tag even more ironic." Yea co's it's just so different when it's a party that takes money from Max Mosley and plaques from IRA terrorists . . . and goes to Hamaas funerals and then says he didn't 
| |||
"Does anyone actually think this report is going to be damaging?Clearly there is something in there but I just cant see them releasing anything too explosive Strangely in recent days there have been a few Russia related stories making the headlines..The report on the NHS corbyn got was allegedly leaked by the Russians,they are close to an antidote and they have been spying on our research (but obviously not vice versa) Strangely I haven't read much about Russian oligarchs giving the Tories loads of money. I know Putin is not a nice chatacter and they get upto a load of devious shit but this whole game Is reminiscent of the cold war when the Russians were portrayed as monsters.Internatinal relations are never that clear cut. As an aside watch the Americans.. its boss. I'll wait and see. I suspect nobody will be too surprised if some tories have connections with dodgy Russians. They're all fans of unregulated capitalism, after all. Putin and his friends are gangsters who don't have to worry about what the people think, or getting elected, or being jailed for the crimes they commit. If they have interfered in our politics, maybe it wasn't just themselves they were trying to help out? If they got something they wanted, it's a lot more likely to have been due to them taking advantage of "useful idiots", than being actively helped; which would be some small comfort. We'll find out eventually. Maybe. It's fairly common knowledge that a fair few oligarchs have ploughed money into Tory coffers.Which begs the question.. just what are they getting for their rubles? Which makes the 'comrade Corbyn'tag even more ironic." Go on then name one Russian that has given money to a uk political party, unless they have become uk citizens it would be illegal | |||
| |||
"and . . . couldn't find it for minute . . . New details from the Electoral Commission show that the Labour Party received Russian linked money. Room One Limited, donated £12,500.00 to the Labour party in the second quarter of 2018. They own a 50% stake in a recently dissolved company Room One 360 Limited. The other 50 per cent was held by a Russian Technology company, EYEDENTITY360 who operate out of Tver in Western Russia. Both Room One Limited and Room One 360 Limited shared a Director and operated out of the same London Address." The electoral commission would be checking very hard for the source of that money, and to be fair 7500 quid isnt a big deal. | |||
| |||
| |||
" It's fairly common knowledge that a fair few oligarchs have ploughed money into Tory coffers.Which begs the question.. just what are they getting for their rubles? Which makes the 'comrade Corbyn'tag even more ironic. Yea co's it's just so different when it's a party that takes money from Max Mosley and plaques from IRA terrorists . . . and goes to Hamaas funerals and then says he didn't
"So it was wrong to attempt to bring peace to northern Ireland? | |||
" It's fairly common knowledge that a fair few oligarchs have ploughed money into Tory coffers.Which begs the question.. just what are they getting for their rubles? Which makes the 'comrade Corbyn'tag even more ironic. Yea co's it's just so different when it's a party that takes money from Max Mosley and plaques from IRA terrorists . . . and goes to Hamaas funerals and then says he didn't
So it was wrong to attempt to bring peace to northern Ireland?
"3.5 m 450 k from lubv cherikon | |||
" It's fairly common knowledge that a fair few oligarchs have ploughed money into Tory coffers.Which begs the question.. just what are they getting for their rubles? Which makes the 'comrade Corbyn'tag even more ironic. Yea co's it's just so different when it's a party that takes money from Max Mosley and plaques from IRA terrorists . . . and goes to Hamaas funerals and then says he didn't
So it was wrong to attempt to bring peace to northern Ireland?
"Not while the current serving government had declared them as terrorists. | |||
" It's fairly common knowledge that a fair few oligarchs have ploughed money into Tory coffers.Which begs the question.. just what are they getting for their rubles? Which makes the 'comrade Corbyn'tag even more ironic. Yea co's it's just so different when it's a party that takes money from Max Mosley and plaques from IRA terrorists . . . and goes to Hamaas funerals and then says he didn't
So it was wrong to attempt to bring peace to northern Ireland?
Not while the current serving government had declared them as terrorists."You realise both Thatcher and major reached out to them? | |||
" It's fairly common knowledge that a fair few oligarchs have ploughed money into Tory coffers.Which begs the question.. just what are they getting for their rubles? Which makes the 'comrade Corbyn'tag even more ironic. Yea co's it's just so different when it's a party that takes money from Max Mosley and plaques from IRA terrorists . . . and goes to Hamaas funerals and then says he didn't
So it was wrong to attempt to bring peace to northern Ireland?
3.5 m
450 k from lubv cherikon
"and the £12,500.00 to Labour? | |||
" It's fairly common knowledge that a fair few oligarchs have ploughed money into Tory coffers.Which begs the question.. just what are they getting for their rubles? Which makes the 'comrade Corbyn'tag even more ironic. Yea co's it's just so different when it's a party that takes money from Max Mosley and plaques from IRA terrorists . . . and goes to Hamaas funerals and then says he didn't
So it was wrong to attempt to bring peace to northern Ireland?
Not while the current serving government had declared them as terrorists.
You realise both Thatcher and major reached out to them?"Yes. As the official Government of the day. | |||
" It's fairly common knowledge that a fair few oligarchs have ploughed money into Tory coffers.Which begs the question.. just what are they getting for their rubles? Which makes the 'comrade Corbyn'tag even more ironic. Yea co's it's just so different when it's a party that takes money from Max Mosley and plaques from IRA terrorists . . . and goes to Hamaas funerals and then says he didn't
"Hmm almost word for word from a telegraph editorial. Didn't realise you moonlighted as a journalist | |||
" It's fairly common knowledge that a fair few oligarchs have ploughed money into Tory coffers.Which begs the question.. just what are they getting for their rubles? Which makes the 'comrade Corbyn'tag even more ironic. Yea co's it's just so different when it's a party that takes money from Max Mosley and plaques from IRA terrorists . . . and goes to Hamaas funerals and then says he didn't
Hmm almost word for word from a telegraph editorial.
Didn't realise you moonlighted as a journalist "It is from Telegraph - But it's still the truth. | |||
" It's fairly common knowledge that a fair few oligarchs have ploughed money into Tory coffers.Which begs the question.. just what are they getting for their rubles? Which makes the 'comrade Corbyn'tag even more ironic. Yea co's it's just so different when it's a party that takes money from Max Mosley and plaques from IRA terrorists . . . and goes to Hamaas funerals and then says he didn't
So it was wrong to attempt to bring peace to northern Ireland?
Not while the current serving government had declared them as terrorists.
You realise both Thatcher and major reached out to them?
Yes. As the official Government of the day.
"So only the gmnt of the day is allowed to seek peace? | |||
" 3.5 m 450 k from lubv cherikon " and the £12,500.00 to Labour? | |||
" It's fairly common knowledge that a fair few oligarchs have ploughed money into Tory coffers.Which begs the question.. just what are they getting for their rubles? Which makes the 'comrade Corbyn'tag even more ironic. Yea co's it's just so different when it's a party that takes money from Max Mosley and plaques from IRA terrorists . . . and goes to Hamaas funerals and then says he didn't
So it was wrong to attempt to bring peace to northern Ireland?
3.5 m
450 k from lubv cherikon
and the £12,500.00 to Labour?"Hang on..I've can find no source yet..what it from the telegraph? | |||
" It's fairly common knowledge that a fair few oligarchs have ploughed money into Tory coffers.Which begs the question.. just what are they getting for their rubles? Which makes the 'comrade Corbyn'tag even more ironic. Yea co's it's just so different when it's a party that takes money from Max Mosley and plaques from IRA terrorists . . . and goes to Hamaas funerals and then says he didn't
So it was wrong to attempt to bring peace to northern Ireland?
Not while the current serving government had declared them as terrorists.
You realise both Thatcher and major reached out to them?
Yes. As the official Government of the day.
So only the gmnt of the day is allowed to seek peace?"That has been the tenant of democracy - be sanctioned by your government. | |||
" It's fairly common knowledge that a fair few oligarchs have ploughed money into Tory coffers.Which begs the question.. just what are they getting for their rubles? Which makes the 'comrade Corbyn'tag even more ironic. Yea co's it's just so different when it's a party that takes money from Max Mosley and plaques from IRA terrorists . . . and goes to Hamaas funerals and then says he didn't
So it was wrong to attempt to bring peace to northern Ireland?
3.5 m
450 k from lubv cherikon
and the £12,500.00 to Labour?
Hang on..I've can find no source yet..what it from the telegraph?"grab a few sentences and search it will come up | |||
| |||
" It's fairly common knowledge that a fair few oligarchs have ploughed money into Tory coffers.Which begs the question.. just what are they getting for their rubles? Which makes the 'comrade Corbyn'tag even more ironic. Yea co's it's just so different when it's a party that takes money from Max Mosley and plaques from IRA terrorists . . . and goes to Hamaas funerals and then says he didn't
So it was wrong to attempt to bring peace to northern Ireland?
Not while the current serving government had declared them as terrorists.
You realise both Thatcher and major reached out to them?
Yes. As the official Government of the day.
So only the gmnt of the day is allowed to seek peace?
That has been the tenant of democracy - be sanctioned by your government. "I literally cant even argue with that. You realise Clinton was also involved? You also realise both sides had to use go betweens?Martin o"guiness was hardly likely to give Thatcher a call out of the blue and day..let's chat? You are appy for one of the bloodiest conflicts to continue simply because only The gmnt of the day could take part. | |||
" It's fairly common knowledge that a fair few oligarchs have ploughed money into Tory coffers.Which begs the question.. just what are they getting for their rubles? Which makes the 'comrade Corbyn'tag even more ironic. Yea co's it's just so different when it's a party that takes money from Max Mosley and plaques from IRA terrorists . . . and goes to Hamaas funerals and then says he didn't
So it was wrong to attempt to bring peace to northern Ireland?
3.5 m
450 k from lubv cherikon
and the £12,500.00 to Labour?
Hang on..I've can find no source yet..what it from the telegraph?
grab a few sentences and search it will come up"Its behind a firewall. I've googled it and the only link it is mentioned in is the telegraph. | |||
" It's fairly common knowledge that a fair few oligarchs have ploughed money into Tory coffers.Which begs the question.. just what are they getting for their rubles? Which makes the 'comrade Corbyn'tag even more ironic. Yea co's it's just so different when it's a party that takes money from Max Mosley and plaques from IRA terrorists . . . and goes to Hamaas funerals and then says he didn't
So it was wrong to attempt to bring peace to northern Ireland?
3.5 m
450 k from lubv cherikon
and the £12,500.00 to Labour?
Hang on..I've can find no source yet..what it from the telegraph?
grab a few sentences and search it will come up
Its behind a firewall.
I've googled it and the only link it is mentioned in is the telegraph. "Oops sorry about that - well that is the quote - you could search The Electoral Commission Website. But it's a true fact. I have access to most paywalls because I have family in National radio. 
| |||
| |||
"That's a wider discussion, but you said that the BBC don't scrape the barrel. In this case they did. No they really didn't. Even as a Corbyn fan there is a massive difference between the 2 examples. See thats the thing that Russia doesnt care about, Russia only cares for Russia, they will play everybody & attack everybody , them leave & laugh whilst everyone left attacks each other. Russia was left to struggle when the EU backed away from a better deal, when the U.S cut ties with them Banning cheese & other imports etc left Russia very weak Putin & Russia got strong again & are back to doing what they do best. Sew distrust everywhere & in the meantime make themselves strong again. Look at the world powers The U.S Europe (EU ) China & Russia. Look at the new wealth Brazil India & China . Russia looks weak amongst that lot . But if Russia plays them all & sets them all against each other , then Russia can strengthen . They are masters at it. Europe is now weak The U.S is weak India can be made weak very easily Brazil also weakened very easily. This leaves Russia one real friend or foe which is China. You would be typing this in German if it wasn't for the Russians.
They have been our allies more than they have been our foes (and they didn't but up the worlds supply of the Coronavirus drug either. Who did. eh?"Quite the opposite really. If Britain and to a lesser extent the US, hadn’t run the arctic convoys to Russia, then they would have fallen to the Germans. It might have helped the Russians at the beginning of WW2 if they hadn’t collaborated with Hitler...  | |||
"That's a wider discussion, but you said that the BBC don't scrape the barrel. In this case they did. No they really didn't. Even as a Corbyn fan there is a massive difference between the 2 examples. See thats the thing that Russia doesnt care about, Russia only cares for Russia, they will play everybody & attack everybody , them leave & laugh whilst everyone left attacks each other. Russia was left to struggle when the EU backed away from a better deal, when the U.S cut ties with them Banning cheese & other imports etc left Russia very weak Putin & Russia got strong again & are back to doing what they do best. Sew distrust everywhere & in the meantime make themselves strong again. Look at the world powers The U.S Europe (EU ) China & Russia. Look at the new wealth Brazil India & China . Russia looks weak amongst that lot . But if Russia plays them all & sets them all against each other , then Russia can strengthen . They are masters at it. Europe is now weak The U.S is weak India can be made weak very easily Brazil also weakened very easily. This leaves Russia one real friend or foe which is China. You would be typing this in German if it wasn't for the Russians.
They have been our allies more than they have been our foes (and they didn't but up the worlds supply of the Coronavirus drug either. Who did. eh?
Quite the opposite really. If Britain and to a lesser extent the US, hadn’t run the arctic convoys to Russia, then they would have fallen to the Germans. It might have helped the Russians at the beginning of WW2 if they hadn’t collaborated with Hitler... "They didn't collaborate. We tried to strange bolshevism in the cradle. Throughout the 30s facism was seen as the lesser evil than communism. Their contribution to ww2 drawfed both ours and America. Without the Russians we would not have won ww2.Thats a fact. | |||
"That's a wider discussion, but you said that the BBC don't scrape the barrel. In this case they did. No they really didn't. Even as a Corbyn fan there is a massive difference between the 2 examples. See thats the thing that Russia doesnt care about, Russia only cares for Russia, they will play everybody & attack everybody , them leave & laugh whilst everyone left attacks each other. Russia was left to struggle when the EU backed away from a better deal, when the U.S cut ties with them Banning cheese & other imports etc left Russia very weak Putin & Russia got strong again & are back to doing what they do best. Sew distrust everywhere & in the meantime make themselves strong again. Look at the world powers The U.S Europe (EU ) China & Russia. Look at the new wealth Brazil India & China . Russia looks weak amongst that lot . But if Russia plays them all & sets them all against each other , then Russia can strengthen . They are masters at it. Europe is now weak The U.S is weak India can be made weak very easily Brazil also weakened very easily. This leaves Russia one real friend or foe which is China. You would be typing this in German if it wasn't for the Russians.
They have been our allies more than they have been our foes (and they didn't but up the worlds supply of the Coronavirus drug either. Who did. eh?
Quite the opposite really. If Britain and to a lesser extent the US, hadn’t run the arctic convoys to Russia, then they would have fallen to the Germans. It might have helped the Russians at the beginning of WW2 if they hadn’t collaborated with Hitler...
They didn't collaborate.
We tried to strange bolshevism in the cradle.
Throughout the 30s facism was seen as the lesser evil than communism.
Their contribution to ww2 drawfed both ours and America.
Without the Russians we would not have won ww2.Thats a fact."Molotov-ribbentrop pact - ask any Pole what they think of the Germans and Russians. Russia would have failed without support from the UK and US. Clearly it was done to split German forces and make it easier to defeat Germany. Russia could not have survived without UK support. Clearly if we hadn’t supported them, then the next place to fall after Russia would have been the UK. | |||
"That's a wider discussion, but you said that the BBC don't scrape the barrel. In this case they did. No they really didn't. Even as a Corbyn fan there is a massive difference between the 2 examples. See thats the thing that Russia doesnt care about, Russia only cares for Russia, they will play everybody & attack everybody , them leave & laugh whilst everyone left attacks each other. Russia was left to struggle when the EU backed away from a better deal, when the U.S cut ties with them Banning cheese & other imports etc left Russia very weak Putin & Russia got strong again & are back to doing what they do best. Sew distrust everywhere & in the meantime make themselves strong again. Look at the world powers The U.S Europe (EU ) China & Russia. Look at the new wealth Brazil India & China . Russia looks weak amongst that lot . But if Russia plays them all & sets them all against each other , then Russia can strengthen . They are masters at it. Europe is now weak The U.S is weak India can be made weak very easily Brazil also weakened very easily. This leaves Russia one real friend or foe which is China. You would be typing this in German if it wasn't for the Russians.
They have been our allies more than they have been our foes (and they didn't but up the worlds supply of the Coronavirus drug either. Who did. eh?
Quite the opposite really. If Britain and to a lesser extent the US, hadn’t run the arctic convoys to Russia, then they would have fallen to the Germans. It might have helped the Russians at the beginning of WW2 if they hadn’t collaborated with Hitler...
They didn't collaborate.
We tried to strange bolshevism in the cradle.
Throughout the 30s facism was seen as the lesser evil than communism.
Their contribution to ww2 drawfed both ours and America.
Without the Russians we would not have won ww2.Thats a fact.
Molotov-ribbentrop pact - ask any Pole what they think of the Germans and Russians.
Russia would have failed without support from the UK and US. Clearly it was done to split German forces and make it easier to defeat Germany.
Russia could not have survived without UK support. Clearly if we hadn’t supported them, then the next place to fall after Russia would have been the UK."Russia lost 20 dead. A jaw dropping sacrifice. It took America,the uk and Russia combined to defeat Germany. The germans never got closer to conquering Russia.Even if Moscow and stalingrad had fell they still had well over half the country to conquer. I'll be honest I've never heard the argument they would have been defeated without our support but I'll do some reading. | |||
"That's a wider discussion, but you said that the BBC don't scrape the barrel. In this case they did. No they really didn't. Even as a Corbyn fan there is a massive difference between the 2 examples. See thats the thing that Russia doesnt care about, Russia only cares for Russia, they will play everybody & attack everybody , them leave & laugh whilst everyone left attacks each other. Russia was left to struggle when the EU backed away from a better deal, when the U.S cut ties with them Banning cheese & other imports etc left Russia very weak Putin & Russia got strong again & are back to doing what they do best. Sew distrust everywhere & in the meantime make themselves strong again. Look at the world powers The U.S Europe (EU ) China & Russia. Look at the new wealth Brazil India & China . Russia looks weak amongst that lot . But if Russia plays them all & sets them all against each other , then Russia can strengthen . They are masters at it. Europe is now weak The U.S is weak India can be made weak very easily Brazil also weakened very easily. This leaves Russia one real friend or foe which is China. You would be typing this in German if it wasn't for the Russians.
They have been our allies more than they have been our foes (and they didn't but up the worlds supply of the Coronavirus drug either. Who did. eh?
Quite the opposite really. If Britain and to a lesser extent the US, hadn’t run the arctic convoys to Russia, then they would have fallen to the Germans. It might have helped the Russians at the beginning of WW2 if they hadn’t collaborated with Hitler...
They didn't collaborate.
We tried to strange bolshevism in the cradle.
Throughout the 30s facism was seen as the lesser evil than communism.
Their contribution to ww2 drawfed both ours and America.
Without the Russians we would not have won ww2.Thats a fact."Russia entered into a pact with Germany and invaded Poland at the same time Germany did as part of the agreement. They then occupied their half of Poland up until the Germans turned on them. If that's not collaboration I'm not sure what is. The UK was aided by Russia in making huge sacrifices. Russia was aided by the UK with the vital supplies and keeping the action going in the west. All countries relied on the huge industrial might of the US | |||
"That's a wider discussion, but you said that the BBC don't scrape the barrel. In this case they did. No they really didn't. Even as a Corbyn fan there is a massive difference between the 2 examples. See thats the thing that Russia doesnt care about, Russia only cares for Russia, they will play everybody & attack everybody , them leave & laugh whilst everyone left attacks each other. Russia was left to struggle when the EU backed away from a better deal, when the U.S cut ties with them Banning cheese & other imports etc left Russia very weak Putin & Russia got strong again & are back to doing what they do best. Sew distrust everywhere & in the meantime make themselves strong again. Look at the world powers The U.S Europe (EU ) China & Russia. Look at the new wealth Brazil India & China . Russia looks weak amongst that lot . But if Russia plays them all & sets them all against each other , then Russia can strengthen . They are masters at it. Europe is now weak The U.S is weak India can be made weak very easily Brazil also weakened very easily. This leaves Russia one real friend or foe which is China. You would be typing this in German if it wasn't for the Russians.
They have been our allies more than they have been our foes (and they didn't but up the worlds supply of the Coronavirus drug either. Who did. eh?
Quite the opposite really. If Britain and to a lesser extent the US, hadn’t run the arctic convoys to Russia, then they would have fallen to the Germans. It might have helped the Russians at the beginning of WW2 if they hadn’t collaborated with Hitler...
They didn't collaborate.
We tried to strange bolshevism in the cradle.
Throughout the 30s facism was seen as the lesser evil than communism.
Their contribution to ww2 drawfed both ours and America.
Without the Russians we would not have won ww2.Thats a fact.
Russia entered into a pact with Germany and invaded Poland at the same time Germany did as part of the agreement. They then occupied their half of Poland up until the Germans turned on them. If that's not collaboration I'm not sure what is. The UK was aided by Russia in making huge sacrifices. Russia was aided by the UK with the vital supplies and keeping the action going in the west. All countries relied on the huge industrial might of the US "A non aggression pact is not collaborating. It's a treaty.You don't attack me and I wont attack you. And like I said previously they had plenty of reasons to distrust the west who openly saw communism as worse than facism. | |||
"That's a wider discussion, but you said that the BBC don't scrape the barrel. In this case they did. No they really didn't. Even as a Corbyn fan there is a massive difference between the 2 examples. See thats the thing that Russia doesnt care about, Russia only cares for Russia, they will play everybody & attack everybody , them leave & laugh whilst everyone left attacks each other. Russia was left to struggle when the EU backed away from a better deal, when the U.S cut ties with them Banning cheese & other imports etc left Russia very weak Putin & Russia got strong again & are back to doing what they do best. Sew distrust everywhere & in the meantime make themselves strong again. Look at the world powers The U.S Europe (EU ) China & Russia. Look at the new wealth Brazil India & China . Russia looks weak amongst that lot . But if Russia plays them all & sets them all against each other , then Russia can strengthen . They are masters at it. Europe is now weak The U.S is weak India can be made weak very easily Brazil also weakened very easily. This leaves Russia one real friend or foe which is China. You would be typing this in German if it wasn't for the Russians.
They have been our allies more than they have been our foes (and they didn't but up the worlds supply of the Coronavirus drug either. Who did. eh?
Quite the opposite really. If Britain and to a lesser extent the US, hadn’t run the arctic convoys to Russia, then they would have fallen to the Germans. It might have helped the Russians at the beginning of WW2 if they hadn’t collaborated with Hitler...
They didn't collaborate.
We tried to strange bolshevism in the cradle.
Throughout the 30s facism was seen as the lesser evil than communism.
Their contribution to ww2 drawfed both ours and America.
Without the Russians we would not have won ww2.Thats a fact.
Russia entered into a pact with Germany and invaded Poland at the same time Germany did as part of the agreement. They then occupied their half of Poland up until the Germans turned on them. If that's not collaboration I'm not sure what is. The UK was aided by Russia in making huge sacrifices. Russia was aided by the UK with the vital supplies and keeping the action going in the west. All countries relied on the huge industrial might of the US "All countries made a significant contribution but it tends to be the Russian one that is often overlooked. | |||
"That's a wider discussion, but you said that the BBC don't scrape the barrel. In this case they did. No they really didn't. Even as a Corbyn fan there is a massive difference between the 2 examples. See thats the thing that Russia doesnt care about, Russia only cares for Russia, they will play everybody & attack everybody , them leave & laugh whilst everyone left attacks each other. Russia was left to struggle when the EU backed away from a better deal, when the U.S cut ties with them Banning cheese & other imports etc left Russia very weak Putin & Russia got strong again & are back to doing what they do best. Sew distrust everywhere & in the meantime make themselves strong again. Look at the world powers The U.S Europe (EU ) China & Russia. Look at the new wealth Brazil India & China . Russia looks weak amongst that lot . But if Russia plays them all & sets them all against each other , then Russia can strengthen . They are masters at it. Europe is now weak The U.S is weak India can be made weak very easily Brazil also weakened very easily. This leaves Russia one real friend or foe which is China. You would be typing this in German if it wasn't for the Russians.
They have been our allies more than they have been our foes (and they didn't but up the worlds supply of the Coronavirus drug either. Who did. eh?
Quite the opposite really. If Britain and to a lesser extent the US, hadn’t run the arctic convoys to Russia, then they would have fallen to the Germans. It might have helped the Russians at the beginning of WW2 if they hadn’t collaborated with Hitler...
They didn't collaborate.
We tried to strange bolshevism in the cradle.
Throughout the 30s facism was seen as the lesser evil than communism.
Their contribution to ww2 drawfed both ours and America.
Without the Russians we would not have won ww2.Thats a fact.
Russia entered into a pact with Germany and invaded Poland at the same time Germany did as part of the agreement. They then occupied their half of Poland up until the Germans turned on them. If that's not collaboration I'm not sure what is. The UK was aided by Russia in making huge sacrifices. Russia was aided by the UK with the vital supplies and keeping the action going in the west. All countries relied on the huge industrial might of the US
A non aggression pact is not collaborating.
It's a treaty.You don't attack me and I wont attack you.
And like I said previously they had plenty of reasons to distrust the west who openly saw communism as worse than facism."They invaded Poland in support of the Germans. I would class that as collaborating | |||
| |||
"Collaborating is working with an occupied force. It was a treaty. S'funny.no mention of our skewed loyalties " You don't think that Russia invading Poland in support of Germany fits into that? | |||
"Collaborating is working with an occupied force. It was a treaty. S'funny.no mention of our skewed loyalties You don't think that Russia invading Poland in support of Germany fits into that? " Sometimes you just know you ask question you know you are never going to get an answer too
In answer to hiur question.
Again.no.They signed a non aggression pact...it was a treaty. | |||
"Collaborating is working with an occupied force. It was a treaty. S'funny.no mention of our skewed loyalties You don't think that Russia invading Poland in support of Germany fits into that? Sometimes you just know you ask question you know you are never going to get an answer too
In answer to hiur question.
Again.no.They signed a non aggression pact...it was a treaty."Maybe say it this way, the Germans and Soviets cooperated to annex Poland. There was no collaboration | |||
"Collaborating is working with an occupied force. It was a treaty. S'funny.no mention of our skewed loyalties You don't think that Russia invading Poland in support of Germany fits into that? Sometimes you just know you ask question you know you are never going to get an answer too
In answer to hiur question.
Again.no.They signed a non aggression pact...it was a treaty."I think you misunderstand. I was not talking about the non aggression pact I was talking about the fact that Russia invaded Poland in support of Germany. | |||
"Collaborating is working with an occupied force. It was a treaty. S'funny.no mention of our skewed loyalties You don't think that Russia invading Poland in support of Germany fits into that? Sometimes you just know you ask question you know you are never going to get an answer too
In answer to hiur question.
Again.no.They signed a non aggression pact...it was a treaty.
Maybe say it this way, the Germans and Soviets cooperated to annex Poland. There was no collaboration
"If cooperated works as a better word than sure. The history books will remain the same | |||
"Collaborating is working with an occupied force. It was a treaty. S'funny.no mention of our skewed loyalties You don't think that Russia invading Poland in support of Germany fits into that? Sometimes you just know you ask question you know you are never going to get an answer too
In answer to hiur question.
Again.no.They signed a non aggression pact...it was a treaty.
I think you misunderstand. I was not talking about the non aggression pact I was talking about the fact that Russia invaded Poland in support of Germany. "They carved up Poland as a result of the treaty. What's it called.. realpolitik? | |||
"Collaborating is working with an occupied force. It was a treaty. S'funny.no mention of our skewed loyalties You don't think that Russia invading Poland in support of Germany fits into that? Sometimes you just know you ask question you know you are never going to get an answer too
In answer to hiur question.
Again.no.They signed a non aggression pact...it was a treaty.
Maybe say it this way, the Germans and Soviets cooperated to annex Poland. There was no collaboration
If cooperated works as a better word than sure. The history books will remain the same"Why do you think they firmed up with Hitler? | |||
" It's fairly common knowledge that a fair few oligarchs have ploughed money into Tory coffers.Which begs the question.. just what are they getting for their rubles? Which makes the 'comrade Corbyn'tag even more ironic. Yea co's it's just so different when it's a party that takes money from Max Mosley and plaques from IRA terrorists . . . and goes to Hamaas funerals and then says he didn't
Hmm almost word for word from a telegraph editorial.
Didn't realise you moonlighted as a journalist
It is from Telegraph - But it's still the truth."The truth about which IRA terrorists ? Can you name them please . | |||
"Collaborating is working with an occupied force. It was a treaty. S'funny.no mention of our skewed loyalties You don't think that Russia invading Poland in support of Germany fits into that? Sometimes you just know you ask question you know you are never going to get an answer too
In answer to hiur question.
Again.no.They signed a non aggression pact...it was a treaty.
I think you misunderstand. I was not talking about the non aggression pact I was talking about the fact that Russia invaded Poland in support of Germany.
They carved up Poland as a result of the treaty.
What's it called.. realpolitik?"I call it collaboration others say cooperation either way it happened regardless of the wording. Shame no one thinks of the poles in all this. The Russia needed time after culling there own armed forces top brass | |||
"That's a wider discussion, but you said that the BBC don't scrape the barrel. In this case they did. No they really didn't. Even as a Corbyn fan there is a massive difference between the 2 examples. See thats the thing that Russia doesnt care about, Russia only cares for Russia, they will play everybody & attack everybody , them leave & laugh whilst everyone left attacks each other. Russia was left to struggle when the EU backed away from a better deal, when the U.S cut ties with them Banning cheese & other imports etc left Russia very weak Putin & Russia got strong again & are back to doing what they do best. Sew distrust everywhere & in the meantime make themselves strong again. Look at the world powers The U.S Europe (EU ) China & Russia. Look at the new wealth Brazil India & China . Russia looks weak amongst that lot . But if Russia plays them all & sets them all against each other , then Russia can strengthen . They are masters at it. Europe is now weak The U.S is weak India can be made weak very easily Brazil also weakened very easily. This leaves Russia one real friend or foe which is China. You would be typing this in German if it wasn't for the Russians.
They have been our allies more than they have been our foes (and they didn't but up the worlds supply of the Coronavirus drug either. Who did. eh?"Nope Id be typing it in Geailge maith sibh na Gearmánaigh  | |||
"Collaborating is working with an occupied force. It was a treaty. S'funny.no mention of our skewed loyalties You don't think that Russia invading Poland in support of Germany fits into that? Sometimes you just know you ask question you know you are never going to get an answer too
In answer to hiur question.
Again.no.They signed a non aggression pact...it was a treaty.
I think you misunderstand. I was not talking about the non aggression pact I was talking about the fact that Russia invaded Poland in support of Germany.
They carved up Poland as a result of the treaty.
What's it called.. realpolitik?
I call it collaboration others say cooperation either way it happened regardless of the wording. Shame no one thinks of the poles in all this. The Russia needed time after culling there own armed forces top brass"Needed time for what? Why didn't they ally with the west? Hitler detested bolshevism | |||
"Collaborating is working with an occupied force. It was a treaty. S'funny.no mention of our skewed loyalties You don't think that Russia invading Poland in support of Germany fits into that? Sometimes you just know you ask question you know you are never going to get an answer too
In answer to hiur question.
Again.no.They signed a non aggression pact...it was a treaty.
I think you misunderstand. I was not talking about the non aggression pact I was talking about the fact that Russia invaded Poland in support of Germany.
They carved up Poland as a result of the treaty.
What's it called.. realpolitik?
I call it collaboration others say cooperation either way it happened regardless of the wording. Shame no one thinks of the poles in all this. The Russia needed time after culling there own armed forces top brass
Needed time for what?
Why didn't they ally with the west?
Hitler detested bolshevism"Time to rebuild after culling their own armed forces | |||
| |||
" Which makes the 'comrade Corbyn'tag even more ironic. and plaques from IRA terrorists . . . and goes to Hamaas funerals and then says he didn't
"He didnt or the labour party didnt ? Corbyn doesnt have the plaque McDonnell does. Are you making stuff up or just confused & conflating Stories for effect ? | |||
| |||
" This leaves Russia one real friend or foe which is China. China values and coverts the vast unoccupied lands along there common border for its space to expand its populace into and its natural resources and would happily occupy them if it could Russia & China are in no way friends other than where it is beneficial to them both the Chinese thin the west are nothing but uncultured barbarians and the Russians somewhere below that there to be taken and conquered " Hence why i said Friend or Foe Depends on which view is looked at at a given time. | |||
"That's a wider discussion, but you said that the BBC don't scrape the barrel. In this case they did. No they really didn't. Even as a Corbyn fan there is a massive difference between the 2 examples. See thats the thing that Russia doesnt care about, Russia only cares for Russia, they will play everybody & attack everybody , them leave & laugh whilst everyone left attacks each other. Russia was left to struggle when the EU backed away from a better deal, when the U.S cut ties with them Banning cheese & other imports etc left Russia very weak Putin & Russia got strong again & are back to doing what they do best. Sew distrust everywhere & in the meantime make themselves strong again. Look at the world powers The U.S Europe (EU ) China & Russia. Look at the new wealth Brazil India & China . Russia looks weak amongst that lot . But if Russia plays them all & sets them all against each other , then Russia can strengthen . They are masters at it. Europe is now weak The U.S is weak India can be made weak very easily Brazil also weakened very easily. This leaves Russia one real friend or foe which is China. Very cynical view of russia I agree they do get upto some shenanigans..I just don't if I believe everything the media says about them. Like when that spy got poisoned and it made massive headlines..surely I wasn't the only one thinking.. haven't they seen James bond?surely it's an occupational hazard? And what do mi5 and mi6 get upto? Btw are they not allies with Syria?" Britain was allied to ISIS who were fighting Syrian renels were they not ? Cynical about Russia I think im being honest . Russia has always played with its own confidence & paranoia . Still a country i want to visit more & more Its a Fascinating place | |||
"That's a wider discussion, but you said that the BBC don't scrape the barrel. In this case they did. No they really didn't. Even as a Corbyn fan there is a massive difference between the 2 examples. See thats the thing that Russia doesnt care about, Russia only cares for Russia, they will play everybody & attack everybody , them leave & laugh whilst everyone left attacks each other. Russia was left to struggle when the EU backed away from a better deal, when the U.S cut ties with them Banning cheese & other imports etc left Russia very weak Putin & Russia got strong again & are back to doing what they do best. Sew distrust everywhere & in the meantime make themselves strong again. Look at the world powers The U.S Europe (EU ) China & Russia. Look at the new wealth Brazil India & China . Russia looks weak amongst that lot . But if Russia plays them all & sets them all against each other , then Russia can strengthen . They are masters at it. Europe is now weak The U.S is weak India can be made weak very easily Brazil also weakened very easily. This leaves Russia one real friend or foe which is China. Very cynical view of russia I agree they do get upto some shenanigans..I just don't if I believe everything the media says about them. Like when that spy got poisoned and it made massive headlines..surely I wasn't the only one thinking.. haven't they seen James bond?surely it's an occupational hazard? And what do mi5 and mi6 get upto? Btw are they not allies with Syria? Britain was allied to ISIS who were fighting Syrian renels were they not ? Cynical about Russia I think im being honest . Russia has always played with its own confidence & paranoia . Still a country i want to visit more & more Its a Fascinating place " Yep I was just referring to your point about lack of allies. Like I said they can be devious bastards at time but I take everything the media say about them with a huge pinch of salt. | |||
"That's a wider discussion, but you said that the BBC don't scrape the barrel. In this case they did. No they really didn't. Even as a Corbyn fan there is a massive difference between the 2 examples. See thats the thing that Russia doesnt care about, Russia only cares for Russia, they will play everybody & attack everybody , them leave & laugh whilst everyone left attacks each other. Russia was left to struggle when the EU backed away from a better deal, when the U.S cut ties with them Banning cheese & other imports etc left Russia very weak Putin & Russia got strong again & are back to doing what they do best. Sew distrust everywhere & in the meantime make themselves strong again. Look at the world powers The U.S Europe (EU ) China & Russia. Look at the new wealth Brazil India & China . Russia looks weak amongst that lot . But if Russia plays them all & sets them all against each other , then Russia can strengthen . They are masters at it. Europe is now weak The U.S is weak India can be made weak very easily Brazil also weakened very easily. This leaves Russia one real friend or foe which is China. Very cynical view of russia I agree they do get upto some shenanigans..I just don't if I believe everything the media says about them. Like when that spy got poisoned and it made massive headlines..surely I wasn't the only one thinking.. haven't they seen James bond?surely it's an occupational hazard? And what do mi5 and mi6 get upto? Btw are they not allies with Syria? Britain was allied to ISIS who were fighting Syrian renels were they not ? Cynical about Russia I think im being honest . Russia has always played with its own confidence & paranoia . Still a country i want to visit more & more Its a Fascinating place Yep I was just referring to your point about lack of allies. Like I said they can be devious bastards at time but I take everything the media say about them with a huge pinch of salt." Russia doesmt have allies It has playthings | |||
"We love talking about ww2 in this country. I wonder when we will move on...We get a thread about Russia and 70% of the posts are about what happened 80 years ago. " Says the man who is hugely supportive of the black lives protests about slavery which was 200 years ago. Got to love the irony | |||
"We love talking about ww2 in this country. I wonder when we will move on...We get a thread about Russia and 70% of the posts are about what happened 80 years ago. Says the man who is hugely supportive of the black lives protests about slavery which was 200 years ago. Got to love the irony "  | |||
" You would be typing this in German if it wasn't for the Russians.
They have been our allies more than they have been our foes (and they didn't buy up the worlds supply of the Coronavirus drug either. Who did. eh?
Quite the opposite really. If Britain and to a lesser extent the US, hadn’t run the arctic convoys to Russia, then they would have fallen to the Germans. It might have helped the Russians at the beginning of WW2 if they hadn’t collaborated with Hitler... "Very wrong. The Artic convoys (though a courageous and costly undertaking) were of minimal assistance to the Soviet cause and were to an extent symbolic only. in late 41' The Germans were repulsed before Moscow in the depths of Winter by newly arrived 40,000 Siberian troops. These fully equipped winter fighting formations had been redeployed from the Eastern U.S.S.R where they had been awaiting an expected Japanese onslaught. Intelligence came from a Soviet spy (Richard Sorge - a German national who was also secretly a communist) moving in Japanese military circles, that the Japanese had no intention of attacking the U.S.S.R at that stage of the war. Stalin unleashed these men on the freezing and badly supplied Wehrmacht and the Germans never again really took back the initiative. Indeed, After the Stalingrad and Kursk defeats, the pace of advance of the Red Army was such that a panicky Churchill, in early '45 ordered the utter destruction of Dresden (The 'Florence of the North') merely in order to demonstrate Britains continuing relevance in the fight and to impress Stalin with the power of bomber command. The land battles in the West from 43 (italy) and 44 (France) were by comparison to the all-out, no-holds barred struggles in the East much more low key affairs (no disrespect to the fallen here i can assure you). For example, the German 'B' grade divisions defending the Normandy beaches had NO air cover whatever - the Luftwaffe being almost exclusively employed in stemming the Russian tide. Far from collaborating with Hitler, as the Czech crisis was looming in 38' the U.S.S.R. implored France and the UK to act in unison with them and the not inconsiderable czech armies in curtailing Germany's ambitions then and there. The Soviet appeal feel on deaf appeasing ears. Later, in 39' the U.S.S.R., in order to buy time to re-equip for the struggle that they now knew must come, signed a non-aggression pact with Germany. (source- Winston Spencer Churchill 'The Second World War'). | |||
" You would be typing this in German if it wasn't for the Russians.
They have been our allies more than they have been our foes (and they didn't buy up the worlds supply of the Coronavirus drug either. Who did. eh?
Quite the opposite really. If Britain and to a lesser extent the US, hadn’t run the arctic convoys to Russia, then they would have fallen to the Germans. It might have helped the Russians at the beginning of WW2 if they hadn’t collaborated with Hitler...
Very wrong. The Artic convoys (though a courageous and costly undertaking) were of minimal assistance to the Soviet cause and were to an extent symbolic only. in late 41' The Germans were repulsed before Moscow in the depths of Winter by newly arrived 40,000 Siberian troops. These fully equipped winter fighting formations had been redeployed from the Eastern U.S.S.R where they had been awaiting an expected Japanese onslaught. Intelligence came from a Soviet spy (Richard Sorge - a German national who was also secretly a communist) moving in Japanese military circles, that the Japanese had no intention of attacking the U.S.S.R at that stage of the war. Stalin unleashed these men on the freezing and badly supplied Wehrmacht and the Germans never again really took back the initiative. Indeed, After the Stalingrad and Kursk defeats, the pace of advance of the Red Army was such that a panicky Churchill, in early '45 ordered the utter destruction of Dresden (The 'Florence of the North') merely in order to demonstrate Britains continuing relevance in the fight and to impress Stalin with the power of bomber command. The land battles in the West from 43 (italy) and 44 (France) were by comparison to the all-out, no-holds barred struggles in the East much more low key affairs (no disrespect to the fallen here i can assure you). For example, the German 'B' grade divisions defending the Normandy beaches had NO air cover whatever - the Luftwaffe being almost exclusively employed in stemming the Russian tide.
Far from collaborating with Hitler, as the Czech crisis was looming in 38' the U.S.S.R. implored France and the UK to act in unison with them and the not inconsiderable czech armies in curtailing Germany's ambitions then and there. The Soviet appeal feel on deaf appeasing ears. Later, in 39' the U.S.S.R., in order to buy time to re-equip for the struggle that they now knew must come, signed a non-aggression pact with Germany. (source- Winston Spencer Churchill 'The Second World War'). "Interesting read. I find it amazing how the Russian contribution has been downplayed over the years here, considering the staggering sacrifice. | |||
| |||
"Wasn't there a theory that churchill was happy to see the Russians and nazis slug it out and us and the Americans would take on the knackered winners?" Yeah but the yanks said Wanna pay up your war debt immediately & they got to choose what happened on there own, Well sort of with Russia. | |||
"Wasn't there a theory that churchill was happy to see the Russians and nazis slug it out and us and the Americans would take on the knackered winners?" This has always been my personal view. Sit on the fence and what the two rival ideologies slug it out and bleed each other white. This, again in my view, is why in June 44 D-Day was launched. We were already making very slow progress in Italy in Churchills 'soft underbelly of Europe' strategy. The rapid approach of the Communist forces (communism being loathed of course by Churchill and the European wealthy) toward Western Europe alarmed us into action, hence the Normandy 'short cut to the Reich'. To reiterate this Churchillian fear of Communism coming to dominate the continent it is worth noting that, after the German surrender, when asked by Feild Marshall Montgomery what he was to do with all the arms from the vanquished formations, Churchill replied "disarm them, but put the guns where we can get at them quickly" (words to that effect). Meaning, we might have to quickly re-arm the Wehrmacht to join us in a new struggle against the Red Army should they not abate their advances. This, incidentally, is something Hitler himself had advocated at several times during the war! Churchill may have been more receptive to these earlier approaches from Germany, had Roosevelt (without Churchills prior approval) not publically announced that nothing short of unconditional German surrender would do. Thus tying Churchills hands as a committed (and thankful) ally. Happy days | |||
| |||
| |||
"Wasn't there a theory that churchill was happy to see the Russians and nazis slug it out and us and the Americans would take on the knackered winners? Yeah but the yanks said Wanna pay up your war debt immediately & they got to choose what happened on there own, Well sort of with Russia." We finished paying for the kit 'generously' leased to us by the U.S.A in 2001. Despite my above cynicism, by golly we needed that stuff badly when we got it though. | |||
"Comedy gold on here "Explain? | |||
"and all the while the Russians continued to do most of the dying. Much good it has done them in C21st eyes... Shame on us. The Russians it was that smashed the Third Reich. Dont accept the re-writing of history. "History is always re written. Peoples views are always changing, it is down to more facts, clarity of argument or a wider perspective. The following is not my view, but an interesting insight into the broader perspective with some more inputs to help us consider context. “ Maybe, it depends on what you mean by defeat Nazi Germany (whether to take Berlin or to force them out of the Soviet Union). There are also a lot of ‘ifs’ to alternative history. Could the Soviets have defeats Nazi Germany on its own? Was Nazi Germany also alone in this war, was it only fighting the Soviet Union? Would the war been declared at the same time by the Germans and their allies against the Soviets? Would the Soviets be able to have the support of Satellite Soviet Governments such as Mongolia and Tanu Tuva. If the Soviets never had support from Mongolia it may have been the most difficult commodity the Soviets could not replace. I would argue that Mongolia’s horse donations to the Soviets were by far the biggest contribution (in terms of physical aid) by any of the allied powers to the Soviet Union. They were used to transport supplies, assisting scouts, for agriculture, and as food themselves. A vital necessity for the Soviet war effort. One might say they were only 500,000 horses given, how could they have been such a difference? Well when the Soviets ran out of military equipment during the early stages of the war horse became necessary for moving artillery pieces, transporting supplies, and building (factories, roads, homes) as millions were being displaced. They also were used by the Soviets to get to places that were impossible to reach by car and too heavy for one man to carry. It also was used to sneak through German lines and supply Partisans. The horses were also breed with others that also would heavily increase the horse population for the Soviets that used be continued to be used for other purposes, including clothing, meat, candles, glue..etc. The Anglo-Canadian-American (ACA) supply for the Soviets was significant almost 11 billion dollars worth of supply. No doubt the Soviets were very grateful for the tanks, planes, convoys, clothing, food, cars, and other material the Americans shipped but was it really a necessary component to winning the war? I would argue no. While there would have been no battle of Kursk (which needed ACA supplies to create the three layered lines of fortification to create) Partisan movements in Belarus, Ukraine, and Russia showed that they did not need ACA assistance to fight, supply, and utterly devastate the German-occupied territories and prevent further advances. But there was one thing that was irreplaceable. The ACA gave the Soviets intelligence about the battle of Moscow, Stalingrad, Kursk, and thousands of other updates given to the Soviets so that they could have understood German deployments, formations, and weaknesses that they successfully exploited in operation Uranus, holding Leningrad, Murmansk, reinforcing Kursk, among others. Had the Soviets not had intelligence from the allies the Germans would have overrun Leningrad, captured the remaining portion of Stalingrad, and possibly even the Caucasus capturing its lucrative oil fields. After that the Germans probably would have found an easier time to attack Partisans and continue to supply their overstretched forces, while the Soviets would be forced to allocating resources in finding oil elsewhere or attempting to sabotage Germany’s access to it. Either way without the ACA intelligence the Soviets would have had a much harder time to fight a conventional war against the Germans leading to them retreating possibly as far as the Urals to set up a defensive front line that would hold off the German invasion until a chance came back to launch a counter offensive against the over supplied and over extended German lines. However, the likelihood is that by that time the Germans and Soviets would sue for peace with the Soviets being forced out of Europe. Through irregular warfare alone the Soviets could have caused enough damage to the Germans that maintaining the war would have been impossible. While a front line could have begun to mobalize and prepare for a future counter offensive it would be unlikely that the Soviets would have been able to capture Berlin or outright defeat Germany similar to what occurred in our Soviet-Axis War. The Soviets would have lost more, had a lower overall production, and incapable of producing the same results in defeating Nazi Germany.” | |||
