FabSwingers.com > Forums > Politics > New Zealand Trade deal
New Zealand Trade deal
Jump to: Newest in thread
 |
By *asyuk OP Man
over a year ago
West London |
Projected to be a loss to the UK or at best zero according to the government's own figures.
Good for New Zealand though.
That's nice of us.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-trade-deal-new-zealand-economy-jacinda-ardern-a9571421.html |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Projected to be a loss to the UK or at best zero according to the government's own figures.
Good for New Zealand though.
That's nice of us.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-trade-deal-new-zealand-economy-jacinda-ardern-a9571421.html"
Still blue passports eh? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Projected to be a loss to the UK or at best zero according to the government's own figures.
Good for New Zealand though.
That's nice of us.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-trade-deal-new-zealand-economy-jacinda-ardern-a9571421.html
Still blue passports eh?"
They have been moaning that are not blue enough.....I kid you not!
https://www.express.co.uk/travel/articles/1296738/passport-uk-renewal-passports-brexit-blue-twitter-outrage |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Projected to be a loss to the UK or at best zero according to the government's own figures.
Good for New Zealand though.
That's nice of us.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-trade-deal-new-zealand-economy-jacinda-ardern-a9571421.html
Still blue passports eh?
They have been moaning that are not blue enough.....I kid you not!
https://www.express.co.uk/travel/articles/1296738/passport-uk-renewal-passports-brexit-blue-twitter-outrage"
Superb |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Got a nice new paint job on the plane though! When we are are flying the clown show round the world negotiating trade deals it will fit nicely. "
Priorities all in order.
Remember when gove wanted us all to chip in to buy the queen another big fuck off yacht? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"Projected to be a loss to the UK or at best zero according to the government's own figures.
Good for New Zealand though.
That's nice of us.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-trade-deal-new-zealand-economy-jacinda-ardern-a9571421.html"
Projected nothing is signed yet.Exports to NZ exports are expected to rise by 3.8 to 7.3% the loss at best zero of trade is a lot better than the deficit the uk has with the eu.Never seen you crowing about the uk,s £70 billion deficit with eu in which we have to pay billions every year for the privilege.Its good to see they still want to as we crapped on them from a great hight when we joined the eu. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Projected to be a loss to the UK or at best zero according to the government's own figures.
Good for New Zealand though.
That's nice of us.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-trade-deal-new-zealand-economy-jacinda-ardern-a9571421.htmlProjected nothing is signed yet.Exports to NZ exports are expected to rise by 3.8 to 7.3% the loss at best zero of trade is a lot better than the deficit the uk has with the eu.Never seen you crowing about the uk,s £70 billion deficit with eu in which we have to pay billions every year for the privilege.Its good to see they still want to as we crapped on them from a great hight when we joined the eu. "
Erm ok... |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Projected to be a loss to the UK or at best zero according to the government's own figures.
Good for New Zealand though.
That's nice of us.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-trade-deal-new-zealand-economy-jacinda-ardern-a9571421.html
Still blue passports eh?
They have been moaning that are not blue enough.....I kid you not!
https://www.express.co.uk/travel/articles/1296738/passport-uk-renewal-passports-brexit-blue-twitter-outrage"
I still have my old British passport and it looks the exact same colour as the new one.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *asyuk OP Man
over a year ago
West London |
"Projected to be a loss to the UK or at best zero according to the government's own figures.
Good for New Zealand though.
That's nice of us.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-trade-deal-new-zealand-economy-jacinda-ardern-a9571421.htmlProjected nothing is signed yet.Exports to NZ exports are expected to rise by 3.8 to 7.3% the loss at best zero of trade is a lot better than the deficit the uk has with the eu.Never seen you crowing about the uk,s £70 billion deficit with eu in which we have to pay billions every year for the privilege.Its good to see they still want to as we crapped on them from a great hight when we joined the eu. "
So the government figures are wrong?
The world hasn't changed since joining the EU?
Righto  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Projected to be a loss to the UK or at best zero according to the government's own figures.
Good for New Zealand though.
That's nice of us.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-trade-deal-new-zealand-economy-jacinda-ardern-a9571421.html
Still blue passports eh?
They have been moaning that are not blue enough.....I kid you not!
https://www.express.co.uk/travel/articles/1296738/passport-uk-renewal-passports-brexit-blue-twitter-outrage
I still have my old British passport and it looks the exact same colour as the new one.
"
What a relief, another Brexit bonus  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Projected to be a loss to the UK or at best zero according to the government's own figures.
Good for New Zealand though.
That's nice of us.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-trade-deal-new-zealand-economy-jacinda-ardern-a9571421.html"
New Zealand have negotiated a favourable trade deal with the UK?
Will all the other countries of the world be able to do that, too?
Or only the ones where the PM isn't inadequate to the task of leadership? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Projected to be a loss to the UK or at best zero according to the government's own figures.
Good for New Zealand though.
That's nice of us.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-trade-deal-new-zealand-economy-jacinda-ardern-a9571421.html
New Zealand have negotiated a favourable trade deal with the UK?
Will all the other countries of the world be able to do that, too?
Or only the ones where the PM isn't inadequate to the task of leadership?"
This is what happens when you leave a market of 450 million and become a market of 65 million...less clout. I remember reading an article about the initial discussions about a Canada/Uk deal. The Canadian negotiators were astounded that the British contingent did not understand they had lost considerable clout from not being in that market. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
So the bottom line with this major deal to ship stuff literally half way around the globe - you just cannot get further away than NZ - is that the UK is financially better off if we don't do it. A real win from our negotiating team then.
I take it that we have already exhausted all the possibilities of nearer countries that might actually give us some benefit. Or perhaps our world-class negotiators are starting with the most distant and least viable opportunities, then will slowly work their way nearer. Give them 80 years to practice and we might get that winning deal just in time for the 2100 turn of the century celebrations. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"So the bottom line with this major deal to ship stuff literally half way around the globe - you just cannot get further away than NZ - is that the UK is financially better off if we don't do it. A real win from our negotiating team then.
I take it that we have already exhausted all the possibilities of nearer countries that might actually give us some benefit. Or perhaps our world-class negotiators are starting with the most distant and least viable opportunities, then will slowly work their way nearer. Give them 80 years to practice and we might get that winning deal just in time for the 2100 turn of the century celebrations."
Don't worry, we can export boomerangs, Penguin bars and Marmite to Australia. Boris announced this yesterday. We just look so odd to the rest of the world. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Yeah it's a great market you pay billions to get in and they sell you 70 billion plus more than you do. "
Haha, and you expect me to believe that leave voters knew what they were voting for ? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"So the bottom line with this major deal to ship stuff literally half way around the globe - you just cannot get further away than NZ - is that the UK is financially better off if we don't do it. A real win from our negotiating team then.
I take it that we have already exhausted all the possibilities of nearer countries that might actually give us some benefit. Or perhaps our world-class negotiators are starting with the most distant and least viable opportunities, then will slowly work their way nearer. Give them 80 years to practice and we might get that winning deal just in time for the 2100 turn of the century celebrations.
Don't worry, we can export boomerangs, Penguin bars and Marmite to Australia. Boris announced this yesterday. We just look so odd to the rest of the world."
Have they not got boomerangs already? And vegemite? Penguin bars maybe, though i rather suspect that somebody in Australia might already manufacture chocolate coated biscuit bars of some kind. Still if it's cheaper for us to fetch the raw ingredients to England from all over the globe, then send the finished product 13,000 miles back... How many penguin bars do we have to sell to replace £291 billion of exports to the EU? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago
upton wirral |
"Projected to be a loss to the UK or at best zero according to the government's own figures.
Good for New Zealand though.
That's nice of us.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-trade-deal-new-zealand-economy-jacinda-ardern-a9571421.html"
If it sounds a bit negative for Britain it makes you happy that I do know |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *asyuk OP Man
over a year ago
West London |
"Yeah it's a great market you pay billions to get in and they sell you 70 billion plus more than you do. "
That is the utterly simple minded logic of someone who sees the world as a zero sum game.
If you win I must lose 
If they sell more to us but we are employing more people and generating more jobs because the overall market has grown then who cares?
Paying £70 billion for multiple times more economic growth due to trade with the EU and subsequent increased attractiveness with the rest of the world because we are in the block.
Can you really not think that through?
How about a former Australian Prime Minister explains it to you unencombered by the need to be diplomatic:
https://www.indy100.com/article/australia-brexit-trade-deal-julia-gillard-boris-johnson-timtams-9572391
"A lot gets talked about in terms of trade deals with other countries. There is the prospect of a trade deal with Australia and we’re always open to trade deals, we’re a great trading nation.
But I do worry that people are starting to imagine that the trade deal with Australia is somehow a substitute for being on the doorstep of a market with 500 million people, it’s not" |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *asyuk OP Man
over a year ago
West London |
"Projected to be a loss to the UK or at best zero according to the government's own figures.
Good for New Zealand though.
That's nice of us.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-trade-deal-new-zealand-economy-jacinda-ardern-a9571421.htmlIf it sounds a bit negative for Britain it makes you happy that I do know"
You can keep trying to pretend that people who disagree with the direction this country is taking as disloyal and claim that we want the country to fail.
It is a nonsense. We don't want the UK to be weaker and for its people to be worse off.
The pertinent question here is do you not mind if the outcome is bad for the UK as long as you get your way?
Do you always ignore the cons when you make a decision and just look at the pros?
In anticipation of your next rant, yes I have looked at the pros and they look very small in comparison. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Projected to be a loss to the UK or at best zero according to the government's own figures.
Good for New Zealand though.
That's nice of us.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-trade-deal-new-zealand-economy-jacinda-ardern-a9571421.htmlIf it sounds a bit negative for Britain it makes you happy that I do know
You can keep trying to pretend that people who disagree with the direction this country is taking as disloyal and claim that we want the country to fail.
It is a nonsense. We don't want the UK to be weaker and for its people to be worse off.
The pertinent question here is do you not mind if the outcome is bad for the UK as long as you get your way?
Do you always ignore the cons when you make a decision and just look at the pros?
In anticipation of your next rant, yes I have looked at the pros and they look very small in comparison."
It totally baffles me that 'remainers' are seen as somehow hating their country. It's quite the opposite, we want it to do well. Those, and there are lots, who argue strongly for a no deal are literally wishing for their fellow Brits to lose their jobs. Ask those in Sunderland. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Projected to be a loss to the UK or at best zero according to the government's own figures.
Good for New Zealand though.
That's nice of us.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-trade-deal-new-zealand-economy-jacinda-ardern-a9571421.htmlIf it sounds a bit negative for Britain it makes you happy that I do know
You can keep trying to pretend that people who disagree with the direction this country is taking as disloyal and claim that we want the country to fail.
It is a nonsense. We don't want the UK to be weaker and for its people to be worse off.
The pertinent question here is do you not mind if the outcome is bad for the UK as long as you get your way?
Do you always ignore the cons when you make a decision and just look at the pros?
In anticipation of your next rant, yes I have looked at the pros and they look very small in comparison.
It totally baffles me that 'remainers' are seen as somehow hating their country. It's quite the opposite, we want it to do well. Those, and there are lots, who argue strongly for a no deal are literally wishing for their fellow Brits to lose their jobs. Ask those in Sunderland."
I find it kind of ironic that the party who claim to put britain 1st,are the party who have sold of practically every last bit of industry we had. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Projected to be a loss to the UK or at best zero according to the government's own figures.
Good for New Zealand though.
That's nice of us.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-trade-deal-new-zealand-economy-jacinda-ardern-a9571421.htmlIf it sounds a bit negative for Britain it makes you happy that I do know
You can keep trying to pretend that people who disagree with the direction this country is taking as disloyal and claim that we want the country to fail.
It is a nonsense. We don't want the UK to be weaker and for its people to be worse off.
The pertinent question here is do you not mind if the outcome is bad for the UK as long as you get your way?
Do you always ignore the cons when you make a decision and just look at the pros?
In anticipation of your next rant, yes I have looked at the pros and they look very small in comparison.
It totally baffles me that 'remainers' are seen as somehow hating their country. It's quite the opposite, we want it to do well. Those, and there are lots, who argue strongly for a no deal are literally wishing for their fellow Brits to lose their jobs. Ask those in Sunderland.
I find it kind of ironic that the party who claim to put britain 1st,are the party who have sold of practically every last bit of industry we had."
Except for the bits that Labour sold.
Air traffic control
London underground
NHS in 1999 |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Projected to be a loss to the UK or at best zero according to the government's own figures.
Good for New Zealand though.
That's nice of us.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-trade-deal-new-zealand-economy-jacinda-ardern-a9571421.htmlIf it sounds a bit negative for Britain it makes you happy that I do know
You can keep trying to pretend that people who disagree with the direction this country is taking as disloyal and claim that we want the country to fail.
It is a nonsense. We don't want the UK to be weaker and for its people to be worse off.
The pertinent question here is do you not mind if the outcome is bad for the UK as long as you get your way?
Do you always ignore the cons when you make a decision and just look at the pros?
In anticipation of your next rant, yes I have looked at the pros and they look very small in comparison.
It totally baffles me that 'remainers' are seen as somehow hating their country. It's quite the opposite, we want it to do well. Those, and there are lots, who argue strongly for a no deal are literally wishing for their fellow Brits to lose their jobs. Ask those in Sunderland.
I find it kind of ironic that the party who claim to put britain 1st,are the party who have sold of practically every last bit of industry we had.
Except for the bits that Labour sold.
Air traffic control
London underground
NHS in 1999"
Sorry labour sold the NHS in 1999?
Did I miss the memo? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Projected to be a loss to the UK or at best zero according to the government's own figures.
Good for New Zealand though.
That's nice of us.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-trade-deal-new-zealand-economy-jacinda-ardern-a9571421.htmlIf it sounds a bit negative for Britain it makes you happy that I do know
You can keep trying to pretend that people who disagree with the direction this country is taking as disloyal and claim that we want the country to fail.
It is a nonsense. We don't want the UK to be weaker and for its people to be worse off.
The pertinent question here is do you not mind if the outcome is bad for the UK as long as you get your way?
Do you always ignore the cons when you make a decision and just look at the pros?
In anticipation of your next rant, yes I have looked at the pros and they look very small in comparison.
It totally baffles me that 'remainers' are seen as somehow hating their country. It's quite the opposite, we want it to do well. Those, and there are lots, who argue strongly for a no deal are literally wishing for their fellow Brits to lose their jobs. Ask those in Sunderland.
I find it kind of ironic that the party who claim to put britain 1st,are the party who have sold of practically every last bit of industry we had.
Except for the bits that Labour sold.
Air traffic control
London underground
NHS in 1999
Sorry labour sold the NHS in 1999?
Did I miss the memo?"
Obviously you don't know your history. Even the Guardian wrote about it.
Before you ask, do your own research. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Projected to be a loss to the UK or at best zero according to the government's own figures.
Good for New Zealand though.
That's nice of us.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-trade-deal-new-zealand-economy-jacinda-ardern-a9571421.htmlIf it sounds a bit negative for Britain it makes you happy that I do know
You can keep trying to pretend that people who disagree with the direction this country is taking as disloyal and claim that we want the country to fail.
It is a nonsense. We don't want the UK to be weaker and for its people to be worse off.
The pertinent question here is do you not mind if the outcome is bad for the UK as long as you get your way?
Do you always ignore the cons when you make a decision and just look at the pros?
In anticipation of your next rant, yes I have looked at the pros and they look very small in comparison.
It totally baffles me that 'remainers' are seen as somehow hating their country. It's quite the opposite, we want it to do well. Those, and there are lots, who argue strongly for a no deal are literally wishing for their fellow Brits to lose their jobs. Ask those in Sunderland.
I find it kind of ironic that the party who claim to put britain 1st,are the party who have sold of practically every last bit of industry we had.
Except for the bits that Labour sold.
Air traffic control
London underground
NHS in 1999
Sorry labour sold the NHS in 1999?
Did I miss the memo?
Obviously you don't know your history. Even the Guardian wrote about it.
Before you ask, do your own research. "
I never knew the NHS had been completely sold off.
Well you learn something every day. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Projected to be a loss to the UK or at best zero according to the government's own figures.
Good for New Zealand though.
That's nice of us.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-trade-deal-new-zealand-economy-jacinda-ardern-a9571421.htmlIf it sounds a bit negative for Britain it makes you happy that I do know
You can keep trying to pretend that people who disagree with the direction this country is taking as disloyal and claim that we want the country to fail.
It is a nonsense. We don't want the UK to be weaker and for its people to be worse off.
The pertinent question here is do you not mind if the outcome is bad for the UK as long as you get your way?
Do you always ignore the cons when you make a decision and just look at the pros?
In anticipation of your next rant, yes I have looked at the pros and they look very small in comparison.
It totally baffles me that 'remainers' are seen as somehow hating their country. It's quite the opposite, we want it to do well. Those, and there are lots, who argue strongly for a no deal are literally wishing for their fellow Brits to lose their jobs. Ask those in Sunderland.
I find it kind of ironic that the party who claim to put britain 1st,are the party who have sold of practically every last bit of industry we had.
Except for the bits that Labour sold.
Air traffic control
London underground
NHS in 1999
Sorry labour sold the NHS in 1999?
Did I miss the memo?
Obviously you don't know your history. Even the Guardian wrote about it.
Before you ask, do your own research.
I never knew the NHS had been completely sold off.
Well you learn something every day."
I never said that.
But that's a typical distraction tactic from you. You use the same method on most of your posts. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Projected to be a loss to the UK or at best zero according to the government's own figures.
Good for New Zealand though.
That's nice of us.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-trade-deal-new-zealand-economy-jacinda-ardern-a9571421.htmlIf it sounds a bit negative for Britain it makes you happy that I do know
You can keep trying to pretend that people who disagree with the direction this country is taking as disloyal and claim that we want the country to fail.
It is a nonsense. We don't want the UK to be weaker and for its people to be worse off.
The pertinent question here is do you not mind if the outcome is bad for the UK as long as you get your way?
Do you always ignore the cons when you make a decision and just look at the pros?
In anticipation of your next rant, yes I have looked at the pros and they look very small in comparison.
It totally baffles me that 'remainers' are seen as somehow hating their country. It's quite the opposite, we want it to do well. Those, and there are lots, who argue strongly for a no deal are literally wishing for their fellow Brits to lose their jobs. Ask those in Sunderland.
I find it kind of ironic that the party who claim to put britain 1st,are the party who have sold of practically every last bit of industry we had.
Except for the bits that Labour sold.
Air traffic control
London underground
NHS in 1999
Sorry labour sold the NHS in 1999?
Did I miss the memo?
Obviously you don't know your history. Even the Guardian wrote about it.
Before you ask, do your own research.
I never knew the NHS had been completely sold off.
Well you learn something every day.
I never said that.
But that's a typical distraction tactic from you. You use the same method on most of your posts."
Course it is.
Labour began pfi under blair but it's been exacerbated in the last 10 years.Fuck knows what's going to happen next.
My point was that the Tories position themselves as being the patriotic party (,remember Milibands dad hating his country)
But literally sold off everything in the 80s to foreign investors.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Projected to be a loss to the UK or at best zero according to the government's own figures.
Good for New Zealand though.
That's nice of us.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-trade-deal-new-zealand-economy-jacinda-ardern-a9571421.htmlIf it sounds a bit negative for Britain it makes you happy that I do know
You can keep trying to pretend that people who disagree with the direction this country is taking as disloyal and claim that we want the country to fail.
It is a nonsense. We don't want the UK to be weaker and for its people to be worse off.
The pertinent question here is do you not mind if the outcome is bad for the UK as long as you get your way?
Do you always ignore the cons when you make a decision and just look at the pros?
In anticipation of your next rant, yes I have looked at the pros and they look very small in comparison.
It totally baffles me that 'remainers' are seen as somehow hating their country. It's quite the opposite, we want it to do well. Those, and there are lots, who argue strongly for a no deal are literally wishing for their fellow Brits to lose their jobs. Ask those in Sunderland.
I find it kind of ironic that the party who claim to put britain 1st,are the party who have sold of practically every last bit of industry we had.
Except for the bits that Labour sold.
Air traffic control
London underground
NHS in 1999
Sorry labour sold the NHS in 1999?
Did I miss the memo?
Obviously you don't know your history. Even the Guardian wrote about it.
Before you ask, do your own research.
I never knew the NHS had been completely sold off.
Well you learn something every day.
I never said that.
But that's a typical distraction tactic from you. You use the same method on most of your posts.
Course it is.
Labour began pfi under blair but it's been exacerbated in the last 10 years.Fuck knows what's going to happen next.
My point was that the Tories position themselves as being the patriotic party (,remember Milibands dad hating his country)
But literally sold off everything in the 80s to foreign investors.
"
I thought the likes of British Gas and BT were offered to the public in shares? Anyone could buy them. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Projected to be a loss to the UK or at best zero according to the government's own figures.
Good for New Zealand though.
That's nice of us.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-trade-deal-new-zealand-economy-jacinda-ardern-a9571421.htmlIf it sounds a bit negative for Britain it makes you happy that I do know
You can keep trying to pretend that people who disagree with the direction this country is taking as disloyal and claim that we want the country to fail.
It is a nonsense. We don't want the UK to be weaker and for its people to be worse off.
The pertinent question here is do you not mind if the outcome is bad for the UK as long as you get your way?
Do you always ignore the cons when you make a decision and just look at the pros?
In anticipation of your next rant, yes I have looked at the pros and they look very small in comparison.
It totally baffles me that 'remainers' are seen as somehow hating their country. It's quite the opposite, we want it to do well. Those, and there are lots, who argue strongly for a no deal are literally wishing for their fellow Brits to lose their jobs. Ask those in Sunderland.
I find it kind of ironic that the party who claim to put britain 1st,are the party who have sold of practically every last bit of industry we had.
Except for the bits that Labour sold.
Air traffic control
London underground
NHS in 1999
Sorry labour sold the NHS in 1999?
Did I miss the memo?
Obviously you don't know your history. Even the Guardian wrote about it.
Before you ask, do your own research.
I never knew the NHS had been completely sold off.
Well you learn something every day.
I never said that.
But that's a typical distraction tactic from you. You use the same method on most of your posts.
Course it is.
Labour began pfi under blair but it's been exacerbated in the last 10 years.Fuck knows what's going to happen next.
My point was that the Tories position themselves as being the patriotic party (,remember Milibands dad hating his country)
But literally sold off everything in the 80s to foreign investors.
I thought the likes of British Gas and BT were offered to the public in shares? Anyone could buy them."
They could.Who is more likely your average Joe or a rich company?
Apparently 1 in 4 businesses in england are foreign owned |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *dsindyTV/TS
over a year ago
East Lancashire |
British Gas, BT, etc were ALREADY owned by the public. They were then PRIVATISED so that they were no longer owned by the public. The superb marketing ploy was to say that everyone could (if they stumped up the cash) buy into companies they ALREADY owned not realising the major investment firms and funds were already in at the ground floor picking up huge wads of shares at knock down prices. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *asyuk OP Man
over a year ago
West London |
"Projected to be a loss to the UK or at best zero according to the government's own figures.
Good for New Zealand though.
That's nice of us.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-trade-deal-new-zealand-economy-jacinda-ardern-a9571421.html
Still blue passports eh?
They have been moaning that are not blue enough.....I kid you not!
https://www.express.co.uk/travel/articles/1296738/passport-uk-renewal-passports-brexit-blue-twitter-outrage
I still have my old British passport and it looks the exact same colour as the new one.
"
Well done.
Does the UK - New Zealand trade deal look good to you then? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *asyuk OP Man
over a year ago
West London |
"Projected to be a loss to the UK or at best zero according to the government's own figures.
Good for New Zealand though.
That's nice of us.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-trade-deal-new-zealand-economy-jacinda-ardern-a9571421.htmlProjected nothing is signed yet.Exports to NZ exports are expected to rise by 3.8 to 7.3% the loss at best zero of trade is a lot better than the deficit the uk has with the eu.Never seen you crowing about the uk,s £70 billion deficit with eu in which we have to pay billions every year for the privilege.Its good to see they still want to as we crapped on them from a great hight when we joined the eu. "
Does a neutral to negative trade deal look good to you then?
Not relative to anything. Does it look like something we should spend time, money and resources on? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ercuryMan
over a year ago
Grantham |
"Projected to be a loss to the UK or at best zero according to the government's own figures.
Good for New Zealand though.
That's nice of us.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-trade-deal-new-zealand-economy-jacinda-ardern-a9571421.htmlIf it sounds a bit negative for Britain it makes you happy that I do know
You can keep trying to pretend that people who disagree with the direction this country is taking as disloyal and claim that we want the country to fail.
It is a nonsense. We don't want the UK to be weaker and for its people to be worse off.
The pertinent question here is do you not mind if the outcome is bad for the UK as long as you get your way?
Do you always ignore the cons when you make a decision and just look at the pros?
In anticipation of your next rant, yes I have looked at the pros and they look very small in comparison.
It totally baffles me that 'remainers' are seen as somehow hating their country. It's quite the opposite, we want it to do well. Those, and there are lots, who argue strongly for a no deal are literally wishing for their fellow Brits to lose their jobs. Ask those in Sunderland.
I find it kind of ironic that the party who claim to put britain 1st,are the party who have sold of practically every last bit of industry we had.
Except for the bits that Labour sold.
Air traffic control
London underground
NHS in 1999
Sorry labour sold the NHS in 1999?
Did I miss the memo?
Obviously you don't know your history. Even the Guardian wrote about it.
Before you ask, do your own research.
I never knew the NHS had been completely sold off.
Well you learn something every day.
I never said that.
But that's a typical distraction tactic from you. You use the same method on most of your posts.
Course it is.
Labour began pfi under blair but it's been exacerbated in the last 10 years.Fuck knows what's going to happen next.
My point was that the Tories position themselves as being the patriotic party (,remember Milibands dad hating his country)
But literally sold off everything in the 80s to foreign investors.
"
John Major started PFI. The Skye Bridge being one of the first projects.
It then exploded under Blair and Brown. It was then reigned in after 2010. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Projected to be a loss to the UK or at best zero according to the government's own figures.
Good for New Zealand though.
That's nice of us.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-trade-deal-new-zealand-economy-jacinda-ardern-a9571421.html
Still blue passports eh?
They have been moaning that are not blue enough.....I kid you not!
https://www.express.co.uk/travel/articles/1296738/passport-uk-renewal-passports-brexit-blue-twitter-outrage
I still have my old British passport and it looks the exact same colour as the new one.
Well done.
Does the UK - New Zealand trade deal look good to you then?"
I see no reason why the UK would not want a trade deal with another Commonwealth country.
In fact we should do deals with all of them.
There are 54 independent and equal contries in the Commonwealth with a total of 2.4 Billion people. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *asyuk OP Man
over a year ago
West London |
"Projected to be a loss to the UK or at best zero according to the government's own figures.
Good for New Zealand though.
That's nice of us.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-trade-deal-new-zealand-economy-jacinda-ardern-a9571421.html
Still blue passports eh?
They have been moaning that are not blue enough.....I kid you not!
https://www.express.co.uk/travel/articles/1296738/passport-uk-renewal-passports-brexit-blue-twitter-outrage
I still have my old British passport and it looks the exact same colour as the new one.
Well done.
Does the UK - New Zealand trade deal look good to you then?
I see no reason why the UK would not want a trade deal with another Commonwealth country.
In fact we should do deals with all of them.
There are 54 independent and equal contries in the Commonwealth with a total of 2.4 Billion people."
Does the UK - New Zealand trade deal look good to you then?
Did you actually read the initial post or the article?
Would 54 such deals with a negative to neutral financial impact on the UK be desirable?
2.4 billion people with considerably less disposable wealth per person, a long way away and with no particular affection for the UK.
This is a whole new century you know? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Projected to be a loss to the UK or at best zero according to the government's own figures.
Good for New Zealand though.
That's nice of us.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-trade-deal-new-zealand-economy-jacinda-ardern-a9571421.html
Still blue passports eh?
They have been moaning that are not blue enough.....I kid you not!
https://www.express.co.uk/travel/articles/1296738/passport-uk-renewal-passports-brexit-blue-twitter-outrage
I still have my old British passport and it looks the exact same colour as the new one.
Well done.
Does the UK - New Zealand trade deal look good to you then?
I see no reason why the UK would not want a trade deal with another Commonwealth country.
In fact we should do deals with all of them.
There are 54 independent and equal contries in the Commonwealth with a total of 2.4 Billion people.
Does the UK - New Zealand trade deal look good to you then?
Did you actually read the initial post or the article?
Would 54 such deals with a negative to neutral financial impact on the UK be desirable?
2.4 billion people with considerably less disposable wealth per person, a long way away and with no particular affection for the UK.
This is a whole new century you know?"
I think you are a far more right wing capitalist than you care to let on.! |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Projected to be a loss to the UK or at best zero according to the government's own figures.
Good for New Zealand though.
That's nice of us.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-trade-deal-new-zealand-economy-jacinda-ardern-a9571421.html
Still blue passports eh?
They have been moaning that are not blue enough.....I kid you not!
https://www.express.co.uk/travel/articles/1296738/passport-uk-renewal-passports-brexit-blue-twitter-outrage
I still have my old British passport and it looks the exact same colour as the new one.
Well done.
Does the UK - New Zealand trade deal look good to you then?
I see no reason why the UK would not want a trade deal with another Commonwealth country.
In fact we should do deals with all of them.
There are 54 independent and equal contries in the Commonwealth with a total of 2.4 Billion people.
Does the UK - New Zealand trade deal look good to you then?
Did you actually read the initial post or the article?
Would 54 such deals with a negative to neutral financial impact on the UK be desirable?
2.4 billion people with considerably less disposable wealth per person, a long way away and with no particular affection for the UK.
This is a whole new century you know?
I think you are a far more right wing capitalist than you care to let on.! "
Just to restate the information from the OP: this proudly announced trade opportunity with NZ will at best make no money for the UK, and at worst lose us money. Literally, if we cancel the talks now and save the travel costs and wages of the discussion teams, this country will be financially better off than continuing with this. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
Why the fuck cant you stop moaning about whats going to happen with a trade deal,in NZ or where ever.Its the otherside of the world but so is China,they make and ship shit over to us ,cheaper than we can make it.Eu imports more to uk than we export to them,what does that tell you,brexit happened its going ahead and get used to it,what the fuck can you do and will it really effect the man on the street,no. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"Projected to be a loss to the UK or at best zero according to the government's own figures.
Good for New Zealand though.
That's nice of us.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-trade-deal-new-zealand-economy-jacinda-ardern-a9571421.html
Still blue passports eh?
They have been moaning that are not blue enough.....I kid you not!
https://www.express.co.uk/travel/articles/1296738/passport-uk-renewal-passports-brexit-blue-twitter-outrage
I still have my old British passport and it looks the exact same colour as the new one.
Well done.
Does the UK - New Zealand trade deal look good to you then?
I see no reason why the UK would not want a trade deal with another Commonwealth country.
In fact we should do deals with all of them.
There are 54 independent and equal contries in the Commonwealth with a total of 2.4 Billion people.
Does the UK - New Zealand trade deal look good to you then?
Did you actually read the initial post or the article?
Would 54 such deals with a negative to neutral financial impact on the UK be desirable?
2.4 billion people with considerably less disposable wealth per person, a long way away and with no particular affection for the UK.
This is a whole new century you know?
I think you are a far more right wing capitalist than you care to let on.!
Just to restate the information from the OP: this proudly announced trade opportunity with NZ will at best make no money for the UK, and at worst lose us money. Literally, if we cancel the talks now and save the travel costs and wages of the discussion teams, this country will be financially better off than continuing with this."
Seems you read no further than the headlines. A trade deal with nz and australia opens up the gateway for joining the trans pacific partnership which yes is slightly smaller than the eu trading block but without all the payments . |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"Projected to be a loss to the UK or at best zero according to the government's own figures.
Good for New Zealand though.
That's nice of us.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-trade-deal-new-zealand-economy-jacinda-ardern-a9571421.html
Still blue passports eh?
They have been moaning that are not blue enough.....I kid you not!
https://www.express.co.uk/travel/articles/1296738/passport-uk-renewal-passports-brexit-blue-twitter-outrage
I still have my old British passport and it looks the exact same colour as the new one.
Well done.
Does the UK - New Zealand trade deal look good to you then?
I see no reason why the UK would not want a trade deal with another Commonwealth country.
In fact we should do deals with all of them.
There are 54 independent and equal contries in the Commonwealth with a total of 2.4 Billion people.
Does the UK - New Zealand trade deal look good to you then?
Did you actually read the initial post or the article?
Would 54 such deals with a negative to neutral financial impact on the UK be desirable?
2.4 billion people with considerably less disposable wealth per person, a long way away and with no particular affection for the UK.
This is a whole new century you know?"
We have got out of 27 negative deals by leaving the eu.Tell me one eu country that we have a trade surplus with. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *asyuk OP Man
over a year ago
West London |
"Projected to be a loss to the UK or at best zero according to the government's own figures.
Good for New Zealand though.
That's nice of us.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-trade-deal-new-zealand-economy-jacinda-ardern-a9571421.html
Still blue passports eh?
They have been moaning that are not blue enough.....I kid you not!
https://www.express.co.uk/travel/articles/1296738/passport-uk-renewal-passports-brexit-blue-twitter-outrage
I still have my old British passport and it looks the exact same colour as the new one.
Well done.
Does the UK - New Zealand trade deal look good to you then?
I see no reason why the UK would not want a trade deal with another Commonwealth country.
In fact we should do deals with all of them.
There are 54 independent and equal contries in the Commonwealth with a total of 2.4 Billion people.
Does the UK - New Zealand trade deal look good to you then?
Did you actually read the initial post or the article?
Would 54 such deals with a negative to neutral financial impact on the UK be desirable?
2.4 billion people with considerably less disposable wealth per person, a long way away and with no particular affection for the UK.
This is a whole new century you know?
I think you are a far more right wing capitalist than you care to let on.! "
I don't think that you have been able to answer the question. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *asyuk OP Man
over a year ago
West London |
"Why the fuck cant you stop moaning about whats going to happen with a trade deal,in NZ or where ever.Its the otherside of the world but so is China,they make and ship shit over to us ,cheaper than we can make it.Eu imports more to uk than we export to them,what does that tell you,brexit happened its going ahead and get used to it,what the fuck can you do and will it really effect the man on the street,no."
Why is doing a trade deal that makes us poorer good? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *asyuk OP Man
over a year ago
West London |
"Projected to be a loss to the UK or at best zero according to the government's own figures.
Good for New Zealand though.
That's nice of us.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-trade-deal-new-zealand-economy-jacinda-ardern-a9571421.html
Still blue passports eh?
They have been moaning that are not blue enough.....I kid you not!
https://www.express.co.uk/travel/articles/1296738/passport-uk-renewal-passports-brexit-blue-twitter-outrage
I still have my old British passport and it looks the exact same colour as the new one.
Well done.
Does the UK - New Zealand trade deal look good to you then?
I see no reason why the UK would not want a trade deal with another Commonwealth country.
In fact we should do deals with all of them.
There are 54 independent and equal contries in the Commonwealth with a total of 2.4 Billion people.
Does the UK - New Zealand trade deal look good to you then?
Did you actually read the initial post or the article?
Would 54 such deals with a negative to neutral financial impact on the UK be desirable?
2.4 billion people with considerably less disposable wealth per person, a long way away and with no particular affection for the UK.
This is a whole new century you know?
I think you are a far more right wing capitalist than you care to let on.!
Just to restate the information from the OP: this proudly announced trade opportunity with NZ will at best make no money for the UK, and at worst lose us money. Literally, if we cancel the talks now and save the travel costs and wages of the discussion teams, this country will be financially better off than continuing with this.Seems you read no further than the headlines. A trade deal with nz and australia opens up the gateway for joining the trans pacific partnership which yes is slightly smaller than the eu trading block but without all the payments ."
It does not "open up" anything. A bilateral trade deal does not make a deal with a trading block significantly smaller and further away more likely.
Did you read this part?
"A similar analysis published by the government today expects a trade agreement with Australia to "increase UK GDP in the long run by around 0.01 per cent or 0.02 per cent", also a negligible amount, particularly over the 15 year long-run period. The UK economy shrank by 20 per cent in April alone on the back of the coronavirus crisis.
The government also admitted in March that its flagship trade deal with Donald Trump's United States would boost UK GDP by 0.16 per cent."
This is a government that lies and spins yet they can't make their own figures look better than this. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *asyuk OP Man
over a year ago
West London |
"Projected to be a loss to the UK or at best zero according to the government's own figures.
Good for New Zealand though.
That's nice of us.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-trade-deal-new-zealand-economy-jacinda-ardern-a9571421.html
Still blue passports eh?
They have been moaning that are not blue enough.....I kid you not!
https://www.express.co.uk/travel/articles/1296738/passport-uk-renewal-passports-brexit-blue-twitter-outrage
I still have my old British passport and it looks the exact same colour as the new one.
Well done.
Does the UK - New Zealand trade deal look good to you then?
I see no reason why the UK would not want a trade deal with another Commonwealth country.
In fact we should do deals with all of them.
There are 54 independent and equal contries in the Commonwealth with a total of 2.4 Billion people.
Does the UK - New Zealand trade deal look good to you then?
Did you actually read the initial post or the article?
Would 54 such deals with a negative to neutral financial impact on the UK be desirable?
2.4 billion people with considerably less disposable wealth per person, a long way away and with no particular affection for the UK.
This is a whole new century you know?We have got out of 27 negative deals by leaving the eu.Tell me one eu country that we have a trade surplus with."
Again, completely and utterly missing the point and trying to define EU membership and trade as a zero sum game.
What is the benefit of a trade surplus? Where does the money go? Is it better to have a bigger economy with a trade deficit or a smaller one with a surplus?
Any idea?
Does the UK - New Zealand trade deal actually look good to you then? This is not an analysis of trade deficits. It's an analysis of economic growth. You understand that, right? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ebbie69Couple
over a year ago
milton keynes |
"Projected to be a loss to the UK or at best zero according to the government's own figures.
Good for New Zealand though.
That's nice of us.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-trade-deal-new-zealand-economy-jacinda-ardern-a9571421.html
Still blue passports eh?
They have been moaning that are not blue enough.....I kid you not!
https://www.express.co.uk/travel/articles/1296738/passport-uk-renewal-passports-brexit-blue-twitter-outrage
I still have my old British passport and it looks the exact same colour as the new one.
Well done.
Does the UK - New Zealand trade deal look good to you then?
I see no reason why the UK would not want a trade deal with another Commonwealth country.
In fact we should do deals with all of them.
There are 54 independent and equal contries in the Commonwealth with a total of 2.4 Billion people.
Does the UK - New Zealand trade deal look good to you then?
Did you actually read the initial post or the article?
Would 54 such deals with a negative to neutral financial impact on the UK be desirable?
2.4 billion people with considerably less disposable wealth per person, a long way away and with no particular affection for the UK.
This is a whole new century you know?We have got out of 27 negative deals by leaving the eu.Tell me one eu country that we have a trade surplus with."
Is that correct?
I knew there was a deficit but with the EU as a whole |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Yet another hyperbolic rant thread based on "projections" on a deal that hasn't even happened yet.
Reminded me of a similar thread on how Nissan was leaving because of Brexit and it was going to be doomsday for UK. Later Nissan shut down the plant in Barcelona while retaining the Sunderland plant. Of course, there was no discussion about Nissan after that. Now jumping the guns on yet another speculation |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *asyuk OP Man
over a year ago
West London |
"Yet another hyperbolic rant thread based on "projections" on a deal that hasn't even happened yet.
Reminded me of a similar thread on how Nissan was leaving because of Brexit and it was going to be doomsday for UK. Later Nissan shut down the plant in Barcelona while retaining the Sunderland plant. Of course, there was no discussion about Nissan after that. Now jumping the guns on yet another speculation "
That is rather the point isn't it.
Why work out anything before doing it? Is your position that whatever the outcome of any event, good or bad, you should do it anyway?
Nissan stayed because they got a big, fat, secret loan.
It happened didn't it?
They are now staying because they expect, and will receive, a subsidy that you and I and everyone else will pay to make up for every penny they are out of pocket.
You enjoy your perspective |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *asyuk OP Man
over a year ago
West London |
"Projected to be a loss to the UK or at best zero according to the government's own figures.
Good for New Zealand though.
That's nice of us.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-trade-deal-new-zealand-economy-jacinda-ardern-a9571421.html
Still blue passports eh?
They have been moaning that are not blue enough.....I kid you not!
https://www.express.co.uk/travel/articles/1296738/passport-uk-renewal-passports-brexit-blue-twitter-outrage
I still have my old British passport and it looks the exact same colour as the new one.
Well done.
Does the UK - New Zealand trade deal look good to you then?
I see no reason why the UK would not want a trade deal with another Commonwealth country.
In fact we should do deals with all of them.
There are 54 independent and equal contries in the Commonwealth with a total of 2.4 Billion people.
Does the UK - New Zealand trade deal look good to you then?
Did you actually read the initial post or the article?
Would 54 such deals with a negative to neutral financial impact on the UK be desirable?
2.4 billion people with considerably less disposable wealth per person, a long way away and with no particular affection for the UK.
This is a whole new century you know?We have got out of 27 negative deals by leaving the eu.Tell me one eu country that we have a trade surplus with.
Is that correct?
I knew there was a deficit but with the EU as a whole"
There is a trade deficit with the EU.
There will continue to be.
Why is a trade deficit bad, in your opinion? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ebbie69Couple
over a year ago
milton keynes |
"Projected to be a loss to the UK or at best zero according to the government's own figures.
Good for New Zealand though.
That's nice of us.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-trade-deal-new-zealand-economy-jacinda-ardern-a9571421.html
Still blue passports eh?
They have been moaning that are not blue enough.....I kid you not!
https://www.express.co.uk/travel/articles/1296738/passport-uk-renewal-passports-brexit-blue-twitter-outrage
I still have my old British passport and it looks the exact same colour as the new one.
Well done.
Does the UK - New Zealand trade deal look good to you then?
I see no reason why the UK would not want a trade deal with another Commonwealth country.
In fact we should do deals with all of them.
There are 54 independent and equal contries in the Commonwealth with a total of 2.4 Billion people.
Does the UK - New Zealand trade deal look good to you then?
Did you actually read the initial post or the article?
Would 54 such deals with a negative to neutral financial impact on the UK be desirable?
2.4 billion people with considerably less disposable wealth per person, a long way away and with no particular affection for the UK.
This is a whole new century you know?We have got out of 27 negative deals by leaving the eu.Tell me one eu country that we have a trade surplus with.
Is that correct?
I knew there was a deficit but with the EU as a whole
There is a trade deficit with the EU.
There will continue to be.
Why is a trade deficit bad, in your opinion?"
I was asking the other poster if its true about a deficit with all 27 countries.
I said I know there is a trade deficit with the EU as a whole.
Maybe you can help with the answer.
I did not say it was good or bad |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *asyuk OP Man
over a year ago
West London |
"Projected to be a loss to the UK or at best zero according to the government's own figures.
Good for New Zealand though.
That's nice of us.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-trade-deal-new-zealand-economy-jacinda-ardern-a9571421.html
Still blue passports eh?
They have been moaning that are not blue enough.....I kid you not!
https://www.express.co.uk/travel/articles/1296738/passport-uk-renewal-passports-brexit-blue-twitter-outrage
I still have my old British passport and it looks the exact same colour as the new one.
Well done.
Does the UK - New Zealand trade deal look good to you then?
I see no reason why the UK would not want a trade deal with another Commonwealth country.
In fact we should do deals with all of them.
There are 54 independent and equal contries in the Commonwealth with a total of 2.4 Billion people.
Does the UK - New Zealand trade deal look good to you then?
Did you actually read the initial post or the article?
Would 54 such deals with a negative to neutral financial impact on the UK be desirable?
2.4 billion people with considerably less disposable wealth per person, a long way away and with no particular affection for the UK.
This is a whole new century you know?We have got out of 27 negative deals by leaving the eu.Tell me one eu country that we have a trade surplus with.
Is that correct?
I knew there was a deficit but with the EU as a whole
There is a trade deficit with the EU.
There will continue to be.
Why is a trade deficit bad, in your opinion?
I was asking the other poster if its true about a deficit with all 27 countries.
I said I know there is a trade deficit with the EU as a whole.
Maybe you can help with the answer.
I did not say it was good or bad"
Fair enough.
Denmark, Luxembourg, Sweden and Ireland by more from us.
I still don't know why that bothers anyone though |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ebbie69Couple
over a year ago
milton keynes |
"Projected to be a loss to the UK or at best zero according to the government's own figures.
Good for New Zealand though.
That's nice of us.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-trade-deal-new-zealand-economy-jacinda-ardern-a9571421.html
Still blue passports eh?
They have been moaning that are not blue enough.....I kid you not!
https://www.express.co.uk/travel/articles/1296738/passport-uk-renewal-passports-brexit-blue-twitter-outrage
I still have my old British passport and it looks the exact same colour as the new one.
Well done.
Does the UK - New Zealand trade deal look good to you then?
I see no reason why the UK would not want a trade deal with another Commonwealth country.
In fact we should do deals with all of them.
There are 54 independent and equal contries in the Commonwealth with a total of 2.4 Billion people.
Does the UK - New Zealand trade deal look good to you then?
Did you actually read the initial post or the article?
Would 54 such deals with a negative to neutral financial impact on the UK be desirable?
2.4 billion people with considerably less disposable wealth per person, a long way away and with no particular affection for the UK.
This is a whole new century you know?We have got out of 27 negative deals by leaving the eu.Tell me one eu country that we have a trade surplus with.
Is that correct?
I knew there was a deficit but with the EU as a whole
There is a trade deficit with the EU.
There will continue to be.
Why is a trade deficit bad, in your opinion?
I was asking the other poster if its true about a deficit with all 27 countries.
I said I know there is a trade deficit with the EU as a whole.
Maybe you can help with the answer.
I did not say it was good or bad
Fair enough.
Denmark, Luxembourg, Sweden and Ireland by more from us.
I still don't know why that bothers anyone though "
Thanks
I assume you confirm about the 27 countries but also say 4 other countries are in the same or similar position |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *asyuk OP Man
over a year ago
West London |
"Projected to be a loss to the UK or at best zero according to the government's own figures.
Good for New Zealand though.
That's nice of us.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-trade-deal-new-zealand-economy-jacinda-ardern-a9571421.html
Still blue passports eh?
They have been moaning that are not blue enough.....I kid you not!
https://www.express.co.uk/travel/articles/1296738/passport-uk-renewal-passports-brexit-blue-twitter-outrage
I still have my old British passport and it looks the exact same colour as the new one.
Well done.
Does the UK - New Zealand trade deal look good to you then?
I see no reason why the UK would not want a trade deal with another Commonwealth country.
In fact we should do deals with all of them.
There are 54 independent and equal contries in the Commonwealth with a total of 2.4 Billion people.
Does the UK - New Zealand trade deal look good to you then?
Did you actually read the initial post or the article?
Would 54 such deals with a negative to neutral financial impact on the UK be desirable?
2.4 billion people with considerably less disposable wealth per person, a long way away and with no particular affection for the UK.
This is a whole new century you know?We have got out of 27 negative deals by leaving the eu.Tell me one eu country that we have a trade surplus with.
Is that correct?
I knew there was a deficit but with the EU as a whole
There is a trade deficit with the EU.
There will continue to be.
Why is a trade deficit bad, in your opinion?
I was asking the other poster if its true about a deficit with all 27 countries.
I said I know there is a trade deficit with the EU as a whole.
Maybe you can help with the answer.
I did not say it was good or bad
Fair enough.
Denmark, Luxembourg, Sweden and Ireland by more from us.
I still don't know why that bothers anyone though
Thanks
I assume you confirm about the 27 countries but also say 4 other countries are in the same or similar position "
I'm not sure I follow.
Several of the countries that we're in deficit to are only marginally so. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ebbie69Couple
over a year ago
milton keynes |
"Projected to be a loss to the UK or at best zero according to the government's own figures.
Good for New Zealand though.
That's nice of us.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-trade-deal-new-zealand-economy-jacinda-ardern-a9571421.html
Still blue passports eh?
They have been moaning that are not blue enough.....I kid you not!
https://www.express.co.uk/travel/articles/1296738/passport-uk-renewal-passports-brexit-blue-twitter-outrage
I still have my old British passport and it looks the exact same colour as the new one.
Well done.
Does the UK - New Zealand trade deal look good to you then?
I see no reason why the UK would not want a trade deal with another Commonwealth country.
In fact we should do deals with all of them.
There are 54 independent and equal contries in the Commonwealth with a total of 2.4 Billion people.
Does the UK - New Zealand trade deal look good to you then?
Did you actually read the initial post or the article?
Would 54 such deals with a negative to neutral financial impact on the UK be desirable?
2.4 billion people with considerably less disposable wealth per person, a long way away and with no particular affection for the UK.
This is a whole new century you know?We have got out of 27 negative deals by leaving the eu.Tell me one eu country that we have a trade surplus with.
Is that correct?
I knew there was a deficit but with the EU as a whole
There is a trade deficit with the EU.
There will continue to be.
Why is a trade deficit bad, in your opinion?
I was asking the other poster if its true about a deficit with all 27 countries.
I said I know there is a trade deficit with the EU as a whole.
Maybe you can help with the answer.
I did not say it was good or bad
Fair enough.
Denmark, Luxembourg, Sweden and Ireland by more from us.
I still don't know why that bothers anyone though
Thanks
I assume you confirm about the 27 countries but also say 4 other countries are in the same or similar position
I'm not sure I follow.
Several of the countries that we're in deficit to are only marginally so."
Looks like I did not ask very well. Was just seeking confirmation if the UK has a deficit with the 27 Europe countries or not regardless of amount or anything. Just is it true or not really. Night x |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Projected to be a loss to the UK or at best zero according to the government's own figures.
Good for New Zealand though.
That's nice of us.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-trade-deal-new-zealand-economy-jacinda-ardern-a9571421.html
Still blue passports eh?
They have been moaning that are not blue enough.....I kid you not!
https://www.express.co.uk/travel/articles/1296738/passport-uk-renewal-passports-brexit-blue-twitter-outrage
I still have my old British passport and it looks the exact same colour as the new one.
Well done.
Does the UK - New Zealand trade deal look good to you then?
I see no reason why the UK would not want a trade deal with another Commonwealth country.
In fact we should do deals with all of them.
There are 54 independent and equal contries in the Commonwealth with a total of 2.4 Billion people.
Does the UK - New Zealand trade deal look good to you then?
Did you actually read the initial post or the article?
Would 54 such deals with a negative to neutral financial impact on the UK be desirable?
2.4 billion people with considerably less disposable wealth per person, a long way away and with no particular affection for the UK.
This is a whole new century you know?We have got out of 27 negative deals by leaving the eu.Tell me one eu country that we have a trade surplus with.
Is that correct?
I knew there was a deficit but with the EU as a whole
There is a trade deficit with the EU.
There will continue to be.
Why is a trade deficit bad, in your opinion?
I was asking the other poster if its true about a deficit with all 27 countries.
I said I know there is a trade deficit with the EU as a whole.
Maybe you can help with the answer.
I did not say it was good or bad
Fair enough.
Denmark, Luxembourg, Sweden and Ireland by more from us.
I still don't know why that bothers anyone though
Thanks
I assume you confirm about the 27 countries but also say 4 other countries are in the same or similar position
I'm not sure I follow.
Several of the countries that we're in deficit to are only marginally so.
Looks like I did not ask very well. Was just seeking confirmation if the UK has a deficit with the 27 Europe countries or not regardless of amount or anything. Just is it true or not really. Night x"
You asked a loaded political question in the politics section of a forum on a swingers site......I’m not sure what you were expecting |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *asyuk OP Man
over a year ago
West London |
"Projected to be a loss to the UK or at best zero according to the government's own figures.
Good for New Zealand though.
That's nice of us.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-trade-deal-new-zealand-economy-jacinda-ardern-a9571421.html
Still blue passports eh?
They have been moaning that are not blue enough.....I kid you not!
https://www.express.co.uk/travel/articles/1296738/passport-uk-renewal-passports-brexit-blue-twitter-outrage
I still have my old British passport and it looks the exact same colour as the new one.
Well done.
Does the UK - New Zealand trade deal look good to you then?
I see no reason why the UK would not want a trade deal with another Commonwealth country.
In fact we should do deals with all of them.
There are 54 independent and equal contries in the Commonwealth with a total of 2.4 Billion people.
Does the UK - New Zealand trade deal look good to you then?
Did you actually read the initial post or the article?
Would 54 such deals with a negative to neutral financial impact on the UK be desirable?
2.4 billion people with considerably less disposable wealth per person, a long way away and with no particular affection for the UK.
This is a whole new century you know?We have got out of 27 negative deals by leaving the eu.Tell me one eu country that we have a trade surplus with.
Is that correct?
I knew there was a deficit but with the EU as a whole
There is a trade deficit with the EU.
There will continue to be.
Why is a trade deficit bad, in your opinion?
I was asking the other poster if its true about a deficit with all 27 countries.
I said I know there is a trade deficit with the EU as a whole.
Maybe you can help with the answer.
I did not say it was good or bad
Fair enough.
Denmark, Luxembourg, Sweden and Ireland by more from us.
I still don't know why that bothers anyone though
Thanks
I assume you confirm about the 27 countries but also say 4 other countries are in the same or similar position
I'm not sure I follow.
Several of the countries that we're in deficit to are only marginally so.
Looks like I did not ask very well. Was just seeking confirmation if the UK has a deficit with the 27 Europe countries or not regardless of amount or anything. Just is it true or not really. Night x"
...and I courteously looked it up for you and provided you with an answer which you could probably have found yourself.
I cannot "confirm" anything because I didn't gather the data. I'm just reporting on what was found. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Yet another hyperbolic rant thread based on "projections" on a deal that hasn't even happened yet.
Reminded me of a similar thread on how Nissan was leaving because of Brexit and it was going to be doomsday for UK. Later Nissan shut down the plant in Barcelona while retaining the Sunderland plant. Of course, there was no discussion about Nissan after that. Now jumping the guns on yet another speculation
That is rather the point isn't it.
Why work out anything before doing it? Is your position that whatever the outcome of any event, good or bad, you should do it anyway?
Nissan stayed because they got a big, fat, secret loan.
It happened didn't it?
They are now staying because they expect, and will receive, a subsidy that you and I and everyone else will pay to make up for every penny they are out of pocket.
You enjoy your perspective "
My position is that it makes sense to discuss it after a deal has been finalised. What's the point in ranting before that happens?
Where did you find the news about the special subsidy that Nissan alone is going to get?
I get it. Its hard when you debate and cry about Nissan leaving and how it supports your views, only to find that it did not leave. In fact, the opposite happened. They shut down a plant in the all powerful EU. You could gracefully accept that you messed up. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"Projected to be a loss to the UK or at best zero according to the government's own figures.
Good for New Zealand though.
That's nice of us.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-trade-deal-new-zealand-economy-jacinda-ardern-a9571421.html
Still blue passports eh?
They have been moaning that are not blue enough.....I kid you not!
https://www.express.co.uk/travel/articles/1296738/passport-uk-renewal-passports-brexit-blue-twitter-outrage
I still have my old British passport and it looks the exact same colour as the new one.
Well done.
Does the UK - New Zealand trade deal look good to you then?
I see no reason why the UK would not want a trade deal with another Commonwealth country.
In fact we should do deals with all of them.
There are 54 independent and equal contries in the Commonwealth with a total of 2.4 Billion people.
Does the UK - New Zealand trade deal look good to you then?
Did you actually read the initial post or the article?
Would 54 such deals with a negative to neutral financial impact on the UK be desirable?
2.4 billion people with considerably less disposable wealth per person, a long way away and with no particular affection for the UK.
This is a whole new century you know?We have got out of 27 negative deals by leaving the eu.Tell me one eu country that we have a trade surplus with.
Again, completely and utterly missing the point and trying to define EU membership and trade as a zero sum game.
What is the benefit of a trade surplus? Where does the money go? Is it better to have a bigger economy with a trade deficit or a smaller one with a surplus?
Any idea?
Does the UK - New Zealand trade deal actually look good to you then? This is not an analysis of trade deficits. It's an analysis of economic growth. You understand that, right?"
Try looking at the whole picture the eu has shrunk as a % of world trade and will continue to do so as they take on average 10 to 15 years to agree deals(still it keeps all those brussels eurocrats in a cushy little number at tax payers expense).The world economy is growing much faster (well was until covid) and we are now free to pursue those deals.Exports from the uk to the eu fell 11% between 2006 and 2016, it was a shrinking market for the uk and had to pay millions for the privilege no wonder the german mep,s called the uk treasure island. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Projected to be a loss to the UK or at best zero according to the government's own figures.
Good for New Zealand though.
That's nice of us.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-trade-deal-new-zealand-economy-jacinda-ardern-a9571421.html
Still blue passports eh?"
With gold writing on it.
Blue background with gold foreground, where have I seen that colour combination before I wonder? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *asyuk OP Man
over a year ago
West London |
"Yet another hyperbolic rant thread based on "projections" on a deal that hasn't even happened yet.
Reminded me of a similar thread on how Nissan was leaving because of Brexit and it was going to be doomsday for UK. Later Nissan shut down the plant in Barcelona while retaining the Sunderland plant. Of course, there was no discussion about Nissan after that. Now jumping the guns on yet another speculation
That is rather the point isn't it.
Why work out anything before doing it? Is your position that whatever the outcome of any event, good or bad, you should do it anyway?
Nissan stayed because they got a big, fat, secret loan.
It happened didn't it?
They are now staying because they expect, and will receive, a subsidy that you and I and everyone else will pay to make up for every penny they are out of pocket.
You enjoy your perspective
My position is that it makes sense to discuss it after a deal has been finalised. What's the point in ranting before that happens?
Where did you find the news about the special subsidy that Nissan alone is going to get?
I get it. Its hard when you debate and cry about Nissan leaving and how it supports your views, only to find that it did not leave. In fact, the opposite happened. They shut down a plant in the all powerful EU. You could gracefully accept that you messed up."
Sigh.
Let's see if we can approach this in a different way.
Perhaps you will actually address the points made this time rather than ignoring the because they are inconvenient?
Is your position that any research done in advance should be ignored or is it that this particular piece of information about the NZ trade deal should be ignored?
The government should ignore its own information?
How then do you decide if you should do any task and how much resource to commit to it?
You don't discuss anything until a deal is done?
You do not ask questions or try to change anything at the start of a process? You just accept the consequences at the end and accept them? You discuss the problems after they can no longer be changed?
It is an approach. Not my preferred one
Nobody said that Nissan would leave immediately. There has been no change to taxes or the terms of trade yet.
I would have thought that you would have some knowledge of a topic before expressing an opinion.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3881692/Ministers-sent-ditch-letter-promising-protect-Nissan-Brexit-costs-face-calls-reveal-details-deal-kept-car-maker-UK.html
https://news.sky.com/story/nissan-offered-80m-of-govt-cash-in-brexit-vote-fallout-11628069
The discussion was Nissan closing if there were a no deal Brexit.
You may have noticed that there has just been a global economic crash felt particularly strongly in the automotive industry.
This leads to an excess in global capacity for the Renault-Nissan-Mitsubishi Group amongst others.
My personal position has always that there will be a deal on the automotive industry and aerospace as it is particularly important to both sides. Agriculture too but the USA demands may now prevent this.
As the EU has completed a comprehensive trade deal with Japan, that we are about to leave, then from a company perspective they are making a decision about closures in a single market, hence Spain.
The UK status is an unknown. The UK government has previously bought off Nissan and it is reasonable to expect them to pursue the same strategy as there is no other rational reason for manufacturing to continue in the UK unless their increased costs are subsidised by the taxpayer.
If you have another theory please present it rather than telling me that I "messed up" based on nothing but the most superficial thoughts on the matter. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *asyuk OP Man
over a year ago
West London |
"Projected to be a loss to the UK or at best zero according to the government's own figures.
Good for New Zealand though.
That's nice of us.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-trade-deal-new-zealand-economy-jacinda-ardern-a9571421.html
Still blue passports eh?
They have been moaning that are not blue enough.....I kid you not!
https://www.express.co.uk/travel/articles/1296738/passport-uk-renewal-passports-brexit-blue-twitter-outrage
I still have my old British passport and it looks the exact same colour as the new one.
Well done.
Does the UK - New Zealand trade deal look good to you then?
I see no reason why the UK would not want a trade deal with another Commonwealth country.
In fact we should do deals with all of them.
There are 54 independent and equal contries in the Commonwealth with a total of 2.4 Billion people.
Does the UK - New Zealand trade deal look good to you then?
Did you actually read the initial post or the article?
Would 54 such deals with a negative to neutral financial impact on the UK be desirable?
2.4 billion people with considerably less disposable wealth per person, a long way away and with no particular affection for the UK.
This is a whole new century you know?We have got out of 27 negative deals by leaving the eu.Tell me one eu country that we have a trade surplus with.
Again, completely and utterly missing the point and trying to define EU membership and trade as a zero sum game.
What is the benefit of a trade surplus? Where does the money go? Is it better to have a bigger economy with a trade deficit or a smaller one with a surplus?
Any idea?
Does the UK - New Zealand trade deal actually look good to you then? This is not an analysis of trade deficits. It's an analysis of economic growth. You understand that, right?Try looking at the whole picture the eu has shrunk as a % of world trade and will continue to do so as they take on average 10 to 15 years to agree deals(still it keeps all those brussels eurocrats in a cushy little number at tax payers expense).The world economy is growing much faster (well was until covid) and we are now free to pursue those deals.Exports from the uk to the eu fell 11% between 2006 and 2016, it was a shrinking market for the uk and had to pay millions for the privilege no wonder the german mep,s called the uk treasure island. "
The EU has not shrunk. The rest of the global economy has expanded.
The EU is not a "shrinking market". Exports have increased by value from £213.3bn in 2009 to £288.9bn in 2018. The fact that we have increased sales by a greater amount to the rest of the world does not change the fact that we are selling more to the EU too.
You do not stop selling in Sheffield in order to possibly have an opportunity to sell in Manchester do you?
That is not the same thing at all. The deals that have been struck are with the biggest economies on the planet and are very comprehensive. As they are extremely complex and extremely wide ranging it is not a surprise that they take a long time to negotiate.
They are successful because they do not have to meet short term political goals based on election cycles.
I note that you ignored the fact that even if deals are negotiated, selling to countries which have significantly poorer populations will not provide anything like the same opportunities for the goods and services that we produce.
You have also continued to ignore the simple fact that the government's own information indicates that the effect on the UK economy will be neutral or negative as a result of a NZ trade deal but we are persuing it anyway. Your contention that this has an implication on the Pacific CPTPP is baseless isn't it? Although if they get the same deal as NZ such that they significantly benefit and we want a deal regardless of the outcome,then why wouldn't they? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *eroy1000Man
over a year ago
milton keynes |
"Yet another hyperbolic rant thread based on "projections" on a deal that hasn't even happened yet.
Reminded me of a similar thread on how Nissan was leaving because of Brexit and it was going to be doomsday for UK. Later Nissan shut down the plant in Barcelona while retaining the Sunderland plant. Of course, there was no discussion about Nissan after that. Now jumping the guns on yet another speculation
That is rather the point isn't it.
Why work out anything before doing it? Is your position that whatever the outcome of any event, good or bad, you should do it anyway?
Nissan stayed because they got a big, fat, secret loan.
It happened didn't it?
They are now staying because they expect, and will receive, a subsidy that you and I and everyone else will pay to make up for every penny they are out of pocket.
You enjoy your perspective
My position is that it makes sense to discuss it after a deal has been finalised. What's the point in ranting before that happens?
Where did you find the news about the special subsidy that Nissan alone is going to get?
I get it. Its hard when you debate and cry about Nissan leaving and how it supports your views, only to find that it did not leave. In fact, the opposite happened. They shut down a plant in the all powerful EU. You could gracefully accept that you messed up.
Sigh.
Let's see if we can approach this in a different way.
Perhaps you will actually address the points made this time rather than ignoring the because they are inconvenient?
Is your position that any research done in advance should be ignored or is it that this particular piece of information about the NZ trade deal should be ignored?
The government should ignore its own information?
How then do you decide if you should do any task and how much resource to commit to it?
You don't discuss anything until a deal is done?
You do not ask questions or try to change anything at the start of a process? You just accept the consequences at the end and accept them? You discuss the problems after they can no longer be changed?
It is an approach. Not my preferred one
Nobody said that Nissan would leave immediately. There has been no change to taxes or the terms of trade yet.
I would have thought that you would have some knowledge of a topic before expressing an opinion.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3881692/Ministers-sent-ditch-letter-promising-protect-Nissan-Brexit-costs-face-calls-reveal-details-deal-kept-car-maker-UK.html
https://news.sky.com/story/nissan-offered-80m-of-govt-cash-in-brexit-vote-fallout-11628069
The discussion was Nissan closing if there were a no deal Brexit.
You may have noticed that there has just been a global economic crash felt particularly strongly in the automotive industry.
This leads to an excess in global capacity for the Renault-Nissan-Mitsubishi Group amongst others.
My personal position has always that there will be a deal on the automotive industry and aerospace as it is particularly important to both sides. Agriculture too but the USA demands may now prevent this.
As the EU has completed a comprehensive trade deal with Japan, that we are about to leave, then from a company perspective they are making a decision about closures in a single market, hence Spain.
The UK status is an unknown. The UK government has previously bought off Nissan and it is reasonable to expect them to pursue the same strategy as there is no other rational reason for manufacturing to continue in the UK unless their increased costs are subsidised by the taxpayer.
If you have another theory please present it rather than telling me that I "messed up" based on nothing but the most superficial thoughts on the matter."
Are you saying that the tax payer will have to sub Nissan for every car they sell at a loss to keep the factory open. In the long run would it not be cheaper to let it close if UN economical. I don't say that lightly as its peoples jobs on the line |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ebbie69Couple
over a year ago
milton keynes |
"Projected to be a loss to the UK or at best zero according to the government's own figures.
Good for New Zealand though.
That's nice of us.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-trade-deal-new-zealand-economy-jacinda-ardern-a9571421.html
Still blue passports eh?
They have been moaning that are not blue enough.....I kid you not!
https://www.express.co.uk/travel/articles/1296738/passport-uk-renewal-passports-brexit-blue-twitter-outrage
I still have my old British passport and it looks the exact same colour as the new one.
Well done.
Does the UK - New Zealand trade deal look good to you then?
I see no reason why the UK would not want a trade deal with another Commonwealth country.
In fact we should do deals with all of them.
There are 54 independent and equal contries in the Commonwealth with a total of 2.4 Billion people.
Does the UK - New Zealand trade deal look good to you then?
Did you actually read the initial post or the article?
Would 54 such deals with a negative to neutral financial impact on the UK be desirable?
2.4 billion people with considerably less disposable wealth per person, a long way away and with no particular affection for the UK.
This is a whole new century you know?We have got out of 27 negative deals by leaving the eu.Tell me one eu country that we have a trade surplus with.
Is that correct?
I knew there was a deficit but with the EU as a whole
There is a trade deficit with the EU.
There will continue to be.
Why is a trade deficit bad, in your opinion?
I was asking the other poster if its true about a deficit with all 27 countries.
I said I know there is a trade deficit with the EU as a whole.
Maybe you can help with the answer.
I did not say it was good or bad
Fair enough.
Denmark, Luxembourg, Sweden and Ireland by more from us.
I still don't know why that bothers anyone though
Thanks
I assume you confirm about the 27 countries but also say 4 other countries are in the same or similar position
I'm not sure I follow.
Several of the countries that we're in deficit to are only marginally so.
Looks like I did not ask very well. Was just seeking confirmation if the UK has a deficit with the 27 Europe countries or not regardless of amount or anything. Just is it true or not really. Night x
You asked a loaded political question in the politics section of a forum on a swingers site......I’m not sure what you were expecting "
Originaly I was asking the person that mentioned it. It sounded maybe a bit exagerated as I know about the deficit with the whole of the EU but not aware we have a deficit with every single country in it.
I learn that 4 other coutries also are affected in the same way. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *asyuk OP Man
over a year ago
West London |
"Projected to be a loss to the UK or at best zero according to the government's own figures.
Good for New Zealand though.
That's nice of us.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-trade-deal-new-zealand-economy-jacinda-ardern-a9571421.html
Still blue passports eh?
They have been moaning that are not blue enough.....I kid you not!
https://www.express.co.uk/travel/articles/1296738/passport-uk-renewal-passports-brexit-blue-twitter-outrage
I still have my old British passport and it looks the exact same colour as the new one.
Well done.
Does the UK - New Zealand trade deal look good to you then?
I see no reason why the UK would not want a trade deal with another Commonwealth country.
In fact we should do deals with all of them.
There are 54 independent and equal contries in the Commonwealth with a total of 2.4 Billion people.
Does the UK - New Zealand trade deal look good to you then?
Did you actually read the initial post or the article?
Would 54 such deals with a negative to neutral financial impact on the UK be desirable?
2.4 billion people with considerably less disposable wealth per person, a long way away and with no particular affection for the UK.
This is a whole new century you know?We have got out of 27 negative deals by leaving the eu.Tell me one eu country that we have a trade surplus with.
Is that correct?
I knew there was a deficit but with the EU as a whole
There is a trade deficit with the EU.
There will continue to be.
Why is a trade deficit bad, in your opinion?
I was asking the other poster if its true about a deficit with all 27 countries.
I said I know there is a trade deficit with the EU as a whole.
Maybe you can help with the answer.
I did not say it was good or bad
Fair enough.
Denmark, Luxembourg, Sweden and Ireland by more from us.
I still don't know why that bothers anyone though
Thanks
I assume you confirm about the 27 countries but also say 4 other countries are in the same or similar position
I'm not sure I follow.
Several of the countries that we're in deficit to are only marginally so.
Looks like I did not ask very well. Was just seeking confirmation if the UK has a deficit with the 27 Europe countries or not regardless of amount or anything. Just is it true or not really. Night x
You asked a loaded political question in the politics section of a forum on a swingers site......I’m not sure what you were expecting
Originaly I was asking the person that mentioned it. It sounded maybe a bit exagerated as I know about the deficit with the whole of the EU but not aware we have a deficit with every single country in it.
I learn that 4 other coutries also are affected in the same way."
People do rather tend to exaggerate when trying to make a point.
The weaker the point the greater the exaggeration.
They are also yet yet towhy a trade deficit is bad so not sure what point they are actually making anyway |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ebbie69Couple
over a year ago
milton keynes |
"Projected to be a loss to the UK or at best zero according to the government's own figures.
Good for New Zealand though.
That's nice of us.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-trade-deal-new-zealand-economy-jacinda-ardern-a9571421.html
Still blue passports eh?
They have been moaning that are not blue enough.....I kid you not!
https://www.express.co.uk/travel/articles/1296738/passport-uk-renewal-passports-brexit-blue-twitter-outrage
I still have my old British passport and it looks the exact same colour as the new one.
Well done.
Does the UK - New Zealand trade deal look good to you then?
I see no reason why the UK would not want a trade deal with another Commonwealth country.
In fact we should do deals with all of them.
There are 54 independent and equal contries in the Commonwealth with a total of 2.4 Billion people.
Does the UK - New Zealand trade deal look good to you then?
Did you actually read the initial post or the article?
Would 54 such deals with a negative to neutral financial impact on the UK be desirable?
2.4 billion people with considerably less disposable wealth per person, a long way away and with no particular affection for the UK.
This is a whole new century you know?We have got out of 27 negative deals by leaving the eu.Tell me one eu country that we have a trade surplus with.
Is that correct?
I knew there was a deficit but with the EU as a whole
There is a trade deficit with the EU.
There will continue to be.
Why is a trade deficit bad, in your opinion?
I was asking the other poster if its true about a deficit with all 27 countries.
I said I know there is a trade deficit with the EU as a whole.
Maybe you can help with the answer.
I did not say it was good or bad
Fair enough.
Denmark, Luxembourg, Sweden and Ireland by more from us.
I still don't know why that bothers anyone though
Thanks
I assume you confirm about the 27 countries but also say 4 other countries are in the same or similar position
I'm not sure I follow.
Several of the countries that we're in deficit to are only marginally so.
Looks like I did not ask very well. Was just seeking confirmation if the UK has a deficit with the 27 Europe countries or not regardless of amount or anything. Just is it true or not really. Night x
You asked a loaded political question in the politics section of a forum on a swingers site......I’m not sure what you were expecting
Originaly I was asking the person that mentioned it. It sounded maybe a bit exagerated as I know about the deficit with the whole of the EU but not aware we have a deficit with every single country in it.
I learn that 4 other coutries also are affected in the same way.
People do rather tend to exaggerate when trying to make a point.
The weaker the point the greater the exaggeration.
They are also yet yet towhy a trade deficit is bad so not sure what point they are actually making anyway "
Hence my question though seems this time I was wrong in thinking he exaggerated.
I will leave the originator to advise on good or bad regarding deficits |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *asyuk OP Man
over a year ago
West London |
"Yet another hyperbolic rant thread based on "projections" on a deal that hasn't even happened yet.
Reminded me of a similar thread on how Nissan was leaving because of Brexit and it was going to be doomsday for UK. Later Nissan shut down the plant in Barcelona while retaining the Sunderland plant. Of course, there was no discussion about Nissan after that. Now jumping the guns on yet another speculation
That is rather the point isn't it.
Why work out anything before doing it? Is your position that whatever the outcome of any event, good or bad, you should do it anyway?
Nissan stayed because they got a big, fat, secret loan.
It happened didn't it?
They are now staying because they expect, and will receive, a subsidy that you and I and everyone else will pay to make up for every penny they are out of pocket.
You enjoy your perspective
My position is that it makes sense to discuss it after a deal has been finalised. What's the point in ranting before that happens?
Where did you find the news about the special subsidy that Nissan alone is going to get?
I get it. Its hard when you debate and cry about Nissan leaving and how it supports your views, only to find that it did not leave. In fact, the opposite happened. They shut down a plant in the all powerful EU. You could gracefully accept that you messed up.
Sigh.
Let's see if we can approach this in a different way.
Perhaps you will actually address the points made this time rather than ignoring the because they are inconvenient?
Is your position that any research done in advance should be ignored or is it that this particular piece of information about the NZ trade deal should be ignored?
The government should ignore its own information?
How then do you decide if you should do any task and how much resource to commit to it?
You don't discuss anything until a deal is done?
You do not ask questions or try to change anything at the start of a process? You just accept the consequences at the end and accept them? You discuss the problems after they can no longer be changed?
It is an approach. Not my preferred one
Nobody said that Nissan would leave immediately. There has been no change to taxes or the terms of trade yet.
I would have thought that you would have some knowledge of a topic before expressing an opinion.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3881692/Ministers-sent-ditch-letter-promising-protect-Nissan-Brexit-costs-face-calls-reveal-details-deal-kept-car-maker-UK.html
https://news.sky.com/story/nissan-offered-80m-of-govt-cash-in-brexit-vote-fallout-11628069
The discussion was Nissan closing if there were a no deal Brexit.
You may have noticed that there has just been a global economic crash felt particularly strongly in the automotive industry.
This leads to an excess in global capacity for the Renault-Nissan-Mitsubishi Group amongst others.
My personal position has always that there will be a deal on the automotive industry and aerospace as it is particularly important to both sides. Agriculture too but the USA demands may now prevent this.
As the EU has completed a comprehensive trade deal with Japan, that we are about to leave, then from a company perspective they are making a decision about closures in a single market, hence Spain.
The UK status is an unknown. The UK government has previously bought off Nissan and it is reasonable to expect them to pursue the same strategy as there is no other rational reason for manufacturing to continue in the UK unless their increased costs are subsidised by the taxpayer.
If you have another theory please present it rather than telling me that I "messed up" based on nothing but the most superficial thoughts on the matter.
Are you saying that the tax payer will have to sub Nissan for every car they sell at a loss to keep the factory open. In the long run would it not be cheaper to let it close if UN economical. I don't say that lightly as its peoples jobs on the line"
"Will" is not correct. I do not know. I am exteapolating based on what we know has happened before.
In addition there is the logic of an industry that runs on ultra tight margins. How would they make money on cars produced in the UK if there is a no deal Brexit and there is a tariff wall between here and the rest of the world?
The UK has subsided uncompetitive industries before. Take coal and steel.
Allowing it to close is not necessarily bad if staff are retrained and there is an alternative area of expansion, but I don't see what the evidence of that would be either sadly. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *eroy1000Man
over a year ago
milton keynes |
"Yet another hyperbolic rant thread based on "projections" on a deal that hasn't even happened yet.
Reminded me of a similar thread on how Nissan was leaving because of Brexit and it was going to be doomsday for UK. Later Nissan shut down the plant in Barcelona while retaining the Sunderland plant. Of course, there was no discussion about Nissan after that. Now jumping the guns on yet another speculation
That is rather the point isn't it.
Why work out anything before doing it? Is your position that whatever the outcome of any event, good or bad, you should do it anyway?
Nissan stayed because they got a big, fat, secret loan.
It happened didn't it?
They are now staying because they expect, and will receive, a subsidy that you and I and everyone else will pay to make up for every penny they are out of pocket.
You enjoy your perspective
My position is that it makes sense to discuss it after a deal has been finalised. What's the point in ranting before that happens?
Where did you find the news about the special subsidy that Nissan alone is going to get?
I get it. Its hard when you debate and cry about Nissan leaving and how it supports your views, only to find that it did not leave. In fact, the opposite happened. They shut down a plant in the all powerful EU. You could gracefully accept that you messed up.
Sigh.
Let's see if we can approach this in a different way.
Perhaps you will actually address the points made this time rather than ignoring the because they are inconvenient?
Is your position that any research done in advance should be ignored or is it that this particular piece of information about the NZ trade deal should be ignored?
The government should ignore its own information?
How then do you decide if you should do any task and how much resource to commit to it?
You don't discuss anything until a deal is done?
You do not ask questions or try to change anything at the start of a process? You just accept the consequences at the end and accept them? You discuss the problems after they can no longer be changed?
It is an approach. Not my preferred one
Nobody said that Nissan would leave immediately. There has been no change to taxes or the terms of trade yet.
I would have thought that you would have some knowledge of a topic before expressing an opinion.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3881692/Ministers-sent-ditch-letter-promising-protect-Nissan-Brexit-costs-face-calls-reveal-details-deal-kept-car-maker-UK.html
https://news.sky.com/story/nissan-offered-80m-of-govt-cash-in-brexit-vote-fallout-11628069
The discussion was Nissan closing if there were a no deal Brexit.
You may have noticed that there has just been a global economic crash felt particularly strongly in the automotive industry.
This leads to an excess in global capacity for the Renault-Nissan-Mitsubishi Group amongst others.
My personal position has always that there will be a deal on the automotive industry and aerospace as it is particularly important to both sides. Agriculture too but the USA demands may now prevent this.
As the EU has completed a comprehensive trade deal with Japan, that we are about to leave, then from a company perspective they are making a decision about closures in a single market, hence Spain.
The UK status is an unknown. The UK government has previously bought off Nissan and it is reasonable to expect them to pursue the same strategy as there is no other rational reason for manufacturing to continue in the UK unless their increased costs are subsidised by the taxpayer.
If you have another theory please present it rather than telling me that I "messed up" based on nothing but the most superficial thoughts on the matter.
Are you saying that the tax payer will have to sub Nissan for every car they sell at a loss to keep the factory open. In the long run would it not be cheaper to let it close if UN economical. I don't say that lightly as its peoples jobs on the line
"Will" is not correct. I do not know. I am exteapolating based on what we know has happened before.
In addition there is the logic of an industry that runs on ultra tight margins. How would they make money on cars produced in the UK if there is a no deal Brexit and there is a tariff wall between here and the rest of the world?
The UK has subsided uncompetitive industries before. Take coal and steel.
Allowing it to close is not necessarily bad if staff are retrained and there is an alternative area of expansion, but I don't see what the evidence of that would be either sadly. "
Ok that makes a bit more sense. At first I thought you meant it was a done deal. I understood about the government putting in money before as it was to do with increasing size and production but to fund an ongoing loss is very different.
I also thought you was talking about a tarrif recyling schem as suggested by some. I have not heard much more about it though.
Not sure about the tarrifs aplying to the whole world though. The EU yes as has been said before.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *asyuk OP Man
over a year ago
West London |
"Yet another hyperbolic rant thread based on "projections" on a deal that hasn't even happened yet.
Reminded me of a similar thread on how Nissan was leaving because of Brexit and it was going to be doomsday for UK. Later Nissan shut down the plant in Barcelona while retaining the Sunderland plant. Of course, there was no discussion about Nissan after that. Now jumping the guns on yet another speculation
That is rather the point isn't it.
Why work out anything before doing it? Is your position that whatever the outcome of any event, good or bad, you should do it anyway?
Nissan stayed because they got a big, fat, secret loan.
It happened didn't it?
They are now staying because they expect, and will receive, a subsidy that you and I and everyone else will pay to make up for every penny they are out of pocket.
You enjoy your perspective
My position is that it makes sense to discuss it after a deal has been finalised. What's the point in ranting before that happens?
Where did you find the news about the special subsidy that Nissan alone is going to get?
I get it. Its hard when you debate and cry about Nissan leaving and how it supports your views, only to find that it did not leave. In fact, the opposite happened. They shut down a plant in the all powerful EU. You could gracefully accept that you messed up.
Sigh.
Let's see if we can approach this in a different way.
Perhaps you will actually address the points made this time rather than ignoring the because they are inconvenient?
Is your position that any research done in advance should be ignored or is it that this particular piece of information about the NZ trade deal should be ignored?
The government should ignore its own information?
How then do you decide if you should do any task and how much resource to commit to it?
You don't discuss anything until a deal is done?
You do not ask questions or try to change anything at the start of a process? You just accept the consequences at the end and accept them? You discuss the problems after they can no longer be changed?
It is an approach. Not my preferred one
Nobody said that Nissan would leave immediately. There has been no change to taxes or the terms of trade yet.
I would have thought that you would have some knowledge of a topic before expressing an opinion.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3881692/Ministers-sent-ditch-letter-promising-protect-Nissan-Brexit-costs-face-calls-reveal-details-deal-kept-car-maker-UK.html
https://news.sky.com/story/nissan-offered-80m-of-govt-cash-in-brexit-vote-fallout-11628069
The discussion was Nissan closing if there were a no deal Brexit.
You may have noticed that there has just been a global economic crash felt particularly strongly in the automotive industry.
This leads to an excess in global capacity for the Renault-Nissan-Mitsubishi Group amongst others.
My personal position has always that there will be a deal on the automotive industry and aerospace as it is particularly important to both sides. Agriculture too but the USA demands may now prevent this.
As the EU has completed a comprehensive trade deal with Japan, that we are about to leave, then from a company perspective they are making a decision about closures in a single market, hence Spain.
The UK status is an unknown. The UK government has previously bought off Nissan and it is reasonable to expect them to pursue the same strategy as there is no other rational reason for manufacturing to continue in the UK unless their increased costs are subsidised by the taxpayer.
If you have another theory please present it rather than telling me that I "messed up" based on nothing but the most superficial thoughts on the matter.
Are you saying that the tax payer will have to sub Nissan for every car they sell at a loss to keep the factory open. In the long run would it not be cheaper to let it close if UN economical. I don't say that lightly as its peoples jobs on the line
"Will" is not correct. I do not know. I am exteapolating based on what we know has happened before.
In addition there is the logic of an industry that runs on ultra tight margins. How would they make money on cars produced in the UK if there is a no deal Brexit and there is a tariff wall between here and the rest of the world?
The UK has subsided uncompetitive industries before. Take coal and steel.
Allowing it to close is not necessarily bad if staff are retrained and there is an alternative area of expansion, but I don't see what the evidence of that would be either sadly.
Ok that makes a bit more sense. At first I thought you meant it was a done deal. I understood about the government putting in money before as it was to do with increasing size and production but to fund an ongoing loss is very different.
I also thought you was talking about a tarrif recyling schem as suggested by some. I have not heard much more about it though.
Not sure about the tarrifs aplying to the whole world though. The EU yes as has been said before.
"
It was actually a sweetener to prevent Nissan making a similar decision to Honda with respect to Brexit. There was no reason to deny it otherwise.
I don't know what a tariff recycling scheme is, but Nissan are basically saying that they would expect their costs to remain the same if they stayed.
When we leave we apply WTO tariffs unless we drop them unilaterally or negotiate specific deals. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *eroy1000Man
over a year ago
milton keynes |
"Yet another hyperbolic rant thread based on "projections" on a deal that hasn't even happened yet.
Reminded me of a similar thread on how Nissan was leaving because of Brexit and it was going to be doomsday for UK. Later Nissan shut down the plant in Barcelona while retaining the Sunderland plant. Of course, there was no discussion about Nissan after that. Now jumping the guns on yet another speculation
That is rather the point isn't it.
Why work out anything before doing it? Is your position that whatever the outcome of any event, good or bad, you should do it anyway?
Nissan stayed because they got a big, fat, secret loan.
It happened didn't it?
They are now staying because they expect, and will receive, a subsidy that you and I and everyone else will pay to make up for every penny they are out of pocket.
You enjoy your perspective
My position is that it makes sense to discuss it after a deal has been finalised. What's the point in ranting before that happens?
Where did you find the news about the special subsidy that Nissan alone is going to get?
I get it. Its hard when you debate and cry about Nissan leaving and how it supports your views, only to find that it did not leave. In fact, the opposite happened. They shut down a plant in the all powerful EU. You could gracefully accept that you messed up.
Sigh.
Let's see if we can approach this in a different way.
Perhaps you will actually address the points made this time rather than ignoring the because they are inconvenient?
Is your position that any research done in advance should be ignored or is it that this particular piece of information about the NZ trade deal should be ignored?
The government should ignore its own information?
How then do you decide if you should do any task and how much resource to commit to it?
You don't discuss anything until a deal is done?
You do not ask questions or try to change anything at the start of a process? You just accept the consequences at the end and accept them? You discuss the problems after they can no longer be changed?
It is an approach. Not my preferred one
Nobody said that Nissan would leave immediately. There has been no change to taxes or the terms of trade yet.
I would have thought that you would have some knowledge of a topic before expressing an opinion.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3881692/Ministers-sent-ditch-letter-promising-protect-Nissan-Brexit-costs-face-calls-reveal-details-deal-kept-car-maker-UK.html
https://news.sky.com/story/nissan-offered-80m-of-govt-cash-in-brexit-vote-fallout-11628069
The discussion was Nissan closing if there were a no deal Brexit.
You may have noticed that there has just been a global economic crash felt particularly strongly in the automotive industry.
This leads to an excess in global capacity for the Renault-Nissan-Mitsubishi Group amongst others.
My personal position has always that there will be a deal on the automotive industry and aerospace as it is particularly important to both sides. Agriculture too but the USA demands may now prevent this.
As the EU has completed a comprehensive trade deal with Japan, that we are about to leave, then from a company perspective they are making a decision about closures in a single market, hence Spain.
The UK status is an unknown. The UK government has previously bought off Nissan and it is reasonable to expect them to pursue the same strategy as there is no other rational reason for manufacturing to continue in the UK unless their increased costs are subsidised by the taxpayer.
If you have another theory please present it rather than telling me that I "messed up" based on nothing but the most superficial thoughts on the matter.
Are you saying that the tax payer will have to sub Nissan for every car they sell at a loss to keep the factory open. In the long run would it not be cheaper to let it close if UN economical. I don't say that lightly as its peoples jobs on the line
"Will" is not correct. I do not know. I am exteapolating based on what we know has happened before.
In addition there is the logic of an industry that runs on ultra tight margins. How would they make money on cars produced in the UK if there is a no deal Brexit and there is a tariff wall between here and the rest of the world?
The UK has subsided uncompetitive industries before. Take coal and steel.
Allowing it to close is not necessarily bad if staff are retrained and there is an alternative area of expansion, but I don't see what the evidence of that would be either sadly.
Ok that makes a bit more sense. At first I thought you meant it was a done deal. I understood about the government putting in money before as it was to do with increasing size and production but to fund an ongoing loss is very different.
I also thought you was talking about a tarrif recyling schem as suggested by some. I have not heard much more about it though.
Not sure about the tarrifs aplying to the whole world though. The EU yes as has been said before.
It was actually a sweetener to prevent Nissan making a similar decision to Honda with respect to Brexit. There was no reason to deny it otherwise.
I don't know what a tariff recycling scheme is, but Nissan are basically saying that they would expect their costs to remain the same if they stayed.
When we leave we apply WTO tariffs unless we drop them unilaterally or negotiate specific deals."
Did it actually get paid in the end given the proposed reason for investment did not happen in the end.
Yes that's it WTO is where a country sets it own tariffs though I think although its planned to reduce or scrap a lot of tariffs cars will remain probably.
Tariff recycling is a most certainly not the correct name just me trying to remember it. I was suspicious when reading one of the links you posted the minister said the tax payer will not directly sub Nissan. It makes me wonder if he was hinting at refunding Nissan for tariffs paid with the money from tariffs revived(from the EU). I'm sure its far more complicated than that and no idea if it holds water |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
Sigh.
Let's see if we can approach this in a different way.
Perhaps you will actually address the points made this time rather than ignoring the because they are inconvenient?
Is your position that any research done in advance should be ignored or is it that this particular piece of information about the NZ trade deal should be ignored?
The government should ignore its own information?
How then do you decide if you should do any task and how much resource to commit to it?
You don't discuss anything until a deal is done?
You do not ask questions or try to change anything at the start of a process? You just accept the consequences at the end and accept them? You discuss the problems after they can no longer be changed?
It is an approach. Not my preferred one
Nobody said that Nissan would leave immediately. There has been no change to taxes or the terms of trade yet.
I would have thought that you would have some knowledge of a topic before expressing an opinion.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3881692/Ministers-sent-ditch-letter-promising-protect-Nissan-Brexit-costs-face-calls-reveal-details-deal-kept-car-maker-UK.html
https://news.sky.com/story/nissan-offered-80m-of-govt-cash-in-brexit-vote-fallout-11628069
The discussion was Nissan closing if there were a no deal Brexit.
You may have noticed that there has just been a global economic crash felt particularly strongly in the automotive industry.
This leads to an excess in global capacity for the Renault-Nissan-Mitsubishi Group amongst others.
My personal position has always that there will be a deal on the automotive industry and aerospace as it is particularly important to both sides. Agriculture too but the USA demands may now prevent this.
As the EU has completed a comprehensive trade deal with Japan, that we are about to leave, then from a company perspective they are making a decision about closures in a single market, hence Spain.
The UK status is an unknown. The UK government has previously bought off Nissan and it is reasonable to expect them to pursue the same strategy as there is no other rational reason for manufacturing to continue in the UK unless their increased costs are subsidised by the taxpayer.
If you have another theory please present it rather than telling me that I "messed up" based on nothing but the most superficial thoughts on the matter."
If you want to witch hunt for news that show that Brexit is a disaster for UK and whine about it, feel free to do so. It's well within your rights. I am just here to point out that there are multiple threads like this purely based on speculations many of which have been proven wrong. But no one talks about them.
Back to the Nissan issue. The letter promises 80m pounds bailout under certain conditions. We know that 2.6m has been paid so far. Let's say the government is going to pay 80m of taxpayer's money. How do you compare that with the 8 billion euros bailout to auto industry announced by France and 3.75 billion euros announced by Spain? Are they also wrong? And Nissan just recently invested 400m pounds in the Sunderland plant.
You say that the reason Nissan shut down its Barcelona plant is because of the single market. By that logic, they would have shut down their UK plant if UK had remained in the EU?
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"
Sigh.
Let's see if we can approach this in a different way.
Perhaps you will actually address the points made this time rather than ignoring the because they are inconvenient?
Is your position that any research done in advance should be ignored or is it that this particular piece of information about the NZ trade deal should be ignored?
The government should ignore its own information?
How then do you decide if you should do any task and how much resource to commit to it?
You don't discuss anything until a deal is done?
You do not ask questions or try to change anything at the start of a process? You just accept the consequences at the end and accept them? You discuss the problems after they can no longer be changed?
It is an approach. Not my preferred one
Nobody said that Nissan would leave immediately. There has been no change to taxes or the terms of trade yet.
I would have thought that you would have some knowledge of a topic before expressing an opinion.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3881692/Ministers-sent-ditch-letter-promising-protect-Nissan-Brexit-costs-face-calls-reveal-details-deal-kept-car-maker-UK.html
https://news.sky.com/story/nissan-offered-80m-of-govt-cash-in-brexit-vote-fallout-11628069
The discussion was Nissan closing if there were a no deal Brexit.
You may have noticed that there has just been a global economic crash felt particularly strongly in the automotive industry.
This leads to an excess in global capacity for the Renault-Nissan-Mitsubishi Group amongst others.
My personal position has always that there will be a deal on the automotive industry and aerospace as it is particularly important to both sides. Agriculture too but the USA demands may now prevent this.
As the EU has completed a comprehensive trade deal with Japan, that we are about to leave, then from a company perspective they are making a decision about closures in a single market, hence Spain.
The UK status is an unknown. The UK government has previously bought off Nissan and it is reasonable to expect them to pursue the same strategy as there is no other rational reason for manufacturing to continue in the UK unless their increased costs are subsidised by the taxpayer.
If you have another theory please present it rather than telling me that I "messed up" based on nothing but the most superficial thoughts on the matter.
If you want to witch hunt for news that show that Brexit is a disaster for UK and whine about it, feel free to do so. It's well within your rights. I am just here to point out that there are multiple threads like this purely based on speculations many of which have been proven wrong. But no one talks about them.
Back to the Nissan issue. The letter promises 80m pounds bailout under certain conditions. We know that 2.6m has been paid so far. Let's say the government is going to pay 80m of taxpayer's money. How do you compare that with the 8 billion euros bailout to auto industry announced by France and 3.75 billion euros announced by Spain? Are they also wrong? And Nissan just recently invested 400m pounds in the Sunderland plant.
You say that the reason Nissan shut down its Barcelona plant is because of the single market. By that logic, they would have shut down their UK plant if UK had remained in the EU?
"
We will only know the "truth'about Brexit in 3 or 4 years time.
What I do know it's a fucking massive gamble and people have put their trust in a group of politicians who seem to be allergic to the truth. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"
Sigh.
Let's see if we can approach this in a different way.
Perhaps you will actually address the points made this time rather than ignoring the because they are inconvenient?
Is your position that any research done in advance should be ignored or is it that this particular piece of information about the NZ trade deal should be ignored?
The government should ignore its own information?
How then do you decide if you should do any task and how much resource to commit to it?
You don't discuss anything until a deal is done?
You do not ask questions or try to change anything at the start of a process? You just accept the consequences at the end and accept them? You discuss the problems after they can no longer be changed?
It is an approach. Not my preferred one
Nobody said that Nissan would leave immediately. There has been no change to taxes or the terms of trade yet.
I would have thought that you would have some knowledge of a topic before expressing an opinion.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3881692/Ministers-sent-ditch-letter-promising-protect-Nissan-Brexit-costs-face-calls-reveal-details-deal-kept-car-maker-UK.html
https://news.sky.com/story/nissan-offered-80m-of-govt-cash-in-brexit-vote-fallout-11628069
The discussion was Nissan closing if there were a no deal Brexit.
You may have noticed that there has just been a global economic crash felt particularly strongly in the automotive industry.
This leads to an excess in global capacity for the Renault-Nissan-Mitsubishi Group amongst others.
My personal position has always that there will be a deal on the automotive industry and aerospace as it is particularly important to both sides. Agriculture too but the USA demands may now prevent this.
As the EU has completed a comprehensive trade deal with Japan, that we are about to leave, then from a company perspective they are making a decision about closures in a single market, hence Spain.
The UK status is an unknown. The UK government has previously bought off Nissan and it is reasonable to expect them to pursue the same strategy as there is no other rational reason for manufacturing to continue in the UK unless their increased costs are subsidised by the taxpayer.
If you have another theory please present it rather than telling me that I "messed up" based on nothing but the most superficial thoughts on the matter.
If you want to witch hunt for news that show that Brexit is a disaster for UK and whine about it, feel free to do so. It's well within your rights. I am just here to point out that there are multiple threads like this purely based on speculations many of which have been proven wrong. But no one talks about them.
Back to the Nissan issue. The letter promises 80m pounds bailout under certain conditions. We know that 2.6m has been paid so far. Let's say the government is going to pay 80m of taxpayer's money. How do you compare that with the 8 billion euros bailout to auto industry announced by France and 3.75 billion euros announced by Spain? Are they also wrong? And Nissan just recently invested 400m pounds in the Sunderland plant.
You say that the reason Nissan shut down its Barcelona plant is because of the single market. By that logic, they would have shut down their UK plant if UK had remained in the EU?
We will only know the "truth'about Brexit in 3 or 4 years time.
What I do know it's a fucking massive gamble and people have put their trust in a group of politicians who seem to be allergic to the truth."
Actually the people put their trust in the 550 MP's in 2015 who voted to hold and honour the result of the referendum |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"
Sigh.
Let's see if we can approach this in a different way.
Perhaps you will actually address the points made this time rather than ignoring the because they are inconvenient?
Is your position that any research done in advance should be ignored or is it that this particular piece of information about the NZ trade deal should be ignored?
The government should ignore its own information?
How then do you decide if you should do any task and how much resource to commit to it?
You don't discuss anything until a deal is done?
You do not ask questions or try to change anything at the start of a process? You just accept the consequences at the end and accept them? You discuss the problems after they can no longer be changed?
It is an approach. Not my preferred one
Nobody said that Nissan would leave immediately. There has been no change to taxes or the terms of trade yet.
I would have thought that you would have some knowledge of a topic before expressing an opinion.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3881692/Ministers-sent-ditch-letter-promising-protect-Nissan-Brexit-costs-face-calls-reveal-details-deal-kept-car-maker-UK.html
https://news.sky.com/story/nissan-offered-80m-of-govt-cash-in-brexit-vote-fallout-11628069
The discussion was Nissan closing if there were a no deal Brexit.
You may have noticed that there has just been a global economic crash felt particularly strongly in the automotive industry.
This leads to an excess in global capacity for the Renault-Nissan-Mitsubishi Group amongst others.
My personal position has always that there will be a deal on the automotive industry and aerospace as it is particularly important to both sides. Agriculture too but the USA demands may now prevent this.
As the EU has completed a comprehensive trade deal with Japan, that we are about to leave, then from a company perspective they are making a decision about closures in a single market, hence Spain.
The UK status is an unknown. The UK government has previously bought off Nissan and it is reasonable to expect them to pursue the same strategy as there is no other rational reason for manufacturing to continue in the UK unless their increased costs are subsidised by the taxpayer.
If you have another theory please present it rather than telling me that I "messed up" based on nothing but the most superficial thoughts on the matter.
If you want to witch hunt for news that show that Brexit is a disaster for UK and whine about it, feel free to do so. It's well within your rights. I am just here to point out that there are multiple threads like this purely based on speculations many of which have been proven wrong. But no one talks about them.
Back to the Nissan issue. The letter promises 80m pounds bailout under certain conditions. We know that 2.6m has been paid so far. Let's say the government is going to pay 80m of taxpayer's money. How do you compare that with the 8 billion euros bailout to auto industry announced by France and 3.75 billion euros announced by Spain? Are they also wrong? And Nissan just recently invested 400m pounds in the Sunderland plant.
You say that the reason Nissan shut down its Barcelona plant is because of the single market. By that logic, they would have shut down their UK plant if UK had remained in the EU?
We will only know the "truth'about Brexit in 3 or 4 years time.
What I do know it's a fucking massive gamble and people have put their trust in a group of politicians who seem to be allergic to the truth.
Actually the people put their trust in the 550 MP's in 2015 who voted to hold and honour the result of the referendum "
Well that's not really true is it?
Did every 1 of those mps support Brexit?
If that were true brext would have been voted through in parliament. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"
Sigh.
Let's see if we can approach this in a different way.
Perhaps you will actually address the points made this time rather than ignoring the because they are inconvenient?
Is your position that any research done in advance should be ignored or is it that this particular piece of information about the NZ trade deal should be ignored?
The government should ignore its own information?
How then do you decide if you should do any task and how much resource to commit to it?
You don't discuss anything until a deal is done?
You do not ask questions or try to change anything at the start of a process? You just accept the consequences at the end and accept them? You discuss the problems after they can no longer be changed?
It is an approach. Not my preferred one
Nobody said that Nissan would leave immediately. There has been no change to taxes or the terms of trade yet.
I would have thought that you would have some knowledge of a topic before expressing an opinion.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3881692/Ministers-sent-ditch-letter-promising-protect-Nissan-Brexit-costs-face-calls-reveal-details-deal-kept-car-maker-UK.html
https://news.sky.com/story/nissan-offered-80m-of-govt-cash-in-brexit-vote-fallout-11628069
The discussion was Nissan closing if there were a no deal Brexit.
You may have noticed that there has just been a global economic crash felt particularly strongly in the automotive industry.
This leads to an excess in global capacity for the Renault-Nissan-Mitsubishi Group amongst others.
My personal position has always that there will be a deal on the automotive industry and aerospace as it is particularly important to both sides. Agriculture too but the USA demands may now prevent this.
As the EU has completed a comprehensive trade deal with Japan, that we are about to leave, then from a company perspective they are making a decision about closures in a single market, hence Spain.
The UK status is an unknown. The UK government has previously bought off Nissan and it is reasonable to expect them to pursue the same strategy as there is no other rational reason for manufacturing to continue in the UK unless their increased costs are subsidised by the taxpayer.
If you have another theory please present it rather than telling me that I "messed up" based on nothing but the most superficial thoughts on the matter.
If you want to witch hunt for news that show that Brexit is a disaster for UK and whine about it, feel free to do so. It's well within your rights. I am just here to point out that there are multiple threads like this purely based on speculations many of which have been proven wrong. But no one talks about them.
Back to the Nissan issue. The letter promises 80m pounds bailout under certain conditions. We know that 2.6m has been paid so far. Let's say the government is going to pay 80m of taxpayer's money. How do you compare that with the 8 billion euros bailout to auto industry announced by France and 3.75 billion euros announced by Spain? Are they also wrong? And Nissan just recently invested 400m pounds in the Sunderland plant.
You say that the reason Nissan shut down its Barcelona plant is because of the single market. By that logic, they would have shut down their UK plant if UK had remained in the EU?
We will only know the "truth'about Brexit in 3 or 4 years time.
What I do know it's a fucking massive gamble and people have put their trust in a group of politicians who seem to be allergic to the truth.
Actually the people put their trust in the 550 MP's in 2015 who voted to hold and honour the result of the referendum
Well that's not really true is it?
Did every 1 of those mps support Brexit?
If that were true brext would have been voted through in parliament."
Blimey you're rubbish at resent history Lionel.
How do you think we were allowed to have a referendum in the first place?
It went through parliament and was voted for with the MP's agreement they would honour the result what ever it was.
The reason it has become messed up is because many Labour MP's decided after the result they wouldn't honour their pledge.
Basically they lied! |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *asyuk OP Man
over a year ago
West London |
"
Sigh.
Let's see if we can approach this in a different way.
Perhaps you will actually address the points made this time rather than ignoring the because they are inconvenient?
Is your position that any research done in advance should be ignored or is it that this particular piece of information about the NZ trade deal should be ignored?
The government should ignore its own information?
How then do you decide if you should do any task and how much resource to commit to it?
You don't discuss anything until a deal is done?
You do not ask questions or try to change anything at the start of a process? You just accept the consequences at the end and accept them? You discuss the problems after they can no longer be changed?
It is an approach. Not my preferred one
Nobody said that Nissan would leave immediately. There has been no change to taxes or the terms of trade yet.
I would have thought that you would have some knowledge of a topic before expressing an opinion.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3881692/Ministers-sent-ditch-letter-promising-protect-Nissan-Brexit-costs-face-calls-reveal-details-deal-kept-car-maker-UK.html
https://news.sky.com/story/nissan-offered-80m-of-govt-cash-in-brexit-vote-fallout-11628069
The discussion was Nissan closing if there were a no deal Brexit.
You may have noticed that there has just been a global economic crash felt particularly strongly in the automotive industry.
This leads to an excess in global capacity for the Renault-Nissan-Mitsubishi Group amongst others.
My personal position has always that there will be a deal on the automotive industry and aerospace as it is particularly important to both sides. Agriculture too but the USA demands may now prevent this.
As the EU has completed a comprehensive trade deal with Japan, that we are about to leave, then from a company perspective they are making a decision about closures in a single market, hence Spain.
The UK status is an unknown. The UK government has previously bought off Nissan and it is reasonable to expect them to pursue the same strategy as there is no other rational reason for manufacturing to continue in the UK unless their increased costs are subsidised by the taxpayer.
If you have another theory please present it rather than telling me that I "messed up" based on nothing but the most superficial thoughts on the matter.
If you want to witch hunt for news that show that Brexit is a disaster for UK and whine about it, feel free to do so. It's well within your rights. I am just here to point out that there are multiple threads like this purely based on speculations many of which have been proven wrong. But no one talks about them.
Back to the Nissan issue. The letter promises 80m pounds bailout under certain conditions. We know that 2.6m has been paid so far. Let's say the government is going to pay 80m of taxpayer's money. How do you compare that with the 8 billion euros bailout to auto industry announced by France and 3.75 billion euros announced by Spain? Are they also wrong? And Nissan just recently invested 400m pounds in the Sunderland plant.
You say that the reason Nissan shut down its Barcelona plant is because of the single market. By that logic, they would have shut down their UK plant if UK had remained in the EU?
We will only know the "truth'about Brexit in 3 or 4 years time.
What I do know it's a fucking massive gamble and people have put their trust in a group of politicians who seem to be allergic to the truth.
Actually the people put their trust in the 550 MP's in 2015 who voted to hold and honour the result of the referendum
Well that's not really true is it?
Did every 1 of those mps support Brexit?
If that were true brext would have been voted through in parliament.
Blimey you're rubbish at resent history Lionel.
How do you think we were allowed to have a referendum in the first place?
It went through parliament and was voted for with the MP's agreement they would honour the result what ever it was.
The reason it has become messed up is because many Labour MP's decided after the result they wouldn't honour their pledge.
Basically they lied!"
Is having a vote on the terms of the negotiated agreement not ho outing a pledge?
Interesting interpretation. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *asyuk OP Man
over a year ago
West London |
"
Sigh.
Let's see if we can approach this in a different way.
Perhaps you will actually address the points made this time rather than ignoring the because they are inconvenient?
Is your position that any research done in advance should be ignored or is it that this particular piece of information about the NZ trade deal should be ignored?
The government should ignore its own information?
How then do you decide if you should do any task and how much resource to commit to it?
You don't discuss anything until a deal is done?
You do not ask questions or try to change anything at the start of a process? You just accept the consequences at the end and accept them? You discuss the problems after they can no longer be changed?
It is an approach. Not my preferred one
Nobody said that Nissan would leave immediately. There has been no change to taxes or the terms of trade yet.
I would have thought that you would have some knowledge of a topic before expressing an opinion.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3881692/Ministers-sent-ditch-letter-promising-protect-Nissan-Brexit-costs-face-calls-reveal-details-deal-kept-car-maker-UK.html
https://news.sky.com/story/nissan-offered-80m-of-govt-cash-in-brexit-vote-fallout-11628069
The discussion was Nissan closing if there were a no deal Brexit.
You may have noticed that there has just been a global economic crash felt particularly strongly in the automotive industry.
This leads to an excess in global capacity for the Renault-Nissan-Mitsubishi Group amongst others.
My personal position has always that there will be a deal on the automotive industry and aerospace as it is particularly important to both sides. Agriculture too but the USA demands may now prevent this.
As the EU has completed a comprehensive trade deal with Japan, that we are about to leave, then from a company perspective they are making a decision about closures in a single market, hence Spain.
The UK status is an unknown. The UK government has previously bought off Nissan and it is reasonable to expect them to pursue the same strategy as there is no other rational reason for manufacturing to continue in the UK unless their increased costs are subsidised by the taxpayer.
If you have another theory please present it rather than telling me that I "messed up" based on nothing but the most superficial thoughts on the matter.
If you want to witch hunt for news that show that Brexit is a disaster for UK and whine about it, feel free to do so. It's well within your rights. I am just here to point out that there are multiple threads like this purely based on speculations many of which have been proven wrong. But no one talks about them.
Back to the Nissan issue. The letter promises 80m pounds bailout under certain conditions. We know that 2.6m has been paid so far. Let's say the government is going to pay 80m of taxpayer's money. How do you compare that with the 8 billion euros bailout to auto industry announced by France and 3.75 billion euros announced by Spain? Are they also wrong? And Nissan just recently invested 400m pounds in the Sunderland plant.
You say that the reason Nissan shut down its Barcelona plant is because of the single market. By that logic, they would have shut down their UK plant if UK had remained in the EU?
"
Ah. No rational explanation at all
Prove something wrong.
Does the NZ deal appear to be a good deal to pursue based on the information available? Yes or no?
Your position remains that no questions should be asked until it is all over. Then if it goes badly then nothing can be done.
Is that how you do all of your planning?
Have you noticed how I give you very direct answers whilst you avoid doing the same?
So there were payments to Nissan which the government denied? 2016.
There was not a global downturn or a pandemic then was there?
What do you think all these stimulus packages are for now? Brexit?
Do you imagine that the payments to Nissan in 2016 were pre-empting this?
A factory could be shut down anywhere in a global downturn should nobody be buying cars.
That's rather obvious is it not? Perhaps not to you |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"
Sigh.
Let's see if we can approach this in a different way.
Perhaps you will actually address the points made this time rather than ignoring the because they are inconvenient?
Is your position that any research done in advance should be ignored or is it that this particular piece of information about the NZ trade deal should be ignored?
The government should ignore its own information?
How then do you decide if you should do any task and how much resource to commit to it?
You don't discuss anything until a deal is done?
You do not ask questions or try to change anything at the start of a process? You just accept the consequences at the end and accept them? You discuss the problems after they can no longer be changed?
It is an approach. Not my preferred one
Nobody said that Nissan would leave immediately. There has been no change to taxes or the terms of trade yet.
I would have thought that you would have some knowledge of a topic before expressing an opinion.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3881692/Ministers-sent-ditch-letter-promising-protect-Nissan-Brexit-costs-face-calls-reveal-details-deal-kept-car-maker-UK.html
https://news.sky.com/story/nissan-offered-80m-of-govt-cash-in-brexit-vote-fallout-11628069
The discussion was Nissan closing if there were a no deal Brexit.
You may have noticed that there has just been a global economic crash felt particularly strongly in the automotive industry.
This leads to an excess in global capacity for the Renault-Nissan-Mitsubishi Group amongst others.
My personal position has always that there will be a deal on the automotive industry and aerospace as it is particularly important to both sides. Agriculture too but the USA demands may now prevent this.
As the EU has completed a comprehensive trade deal with Japan, that we are about to leave, then from a company perspective they are making a decision about closures in a single market, hence Spain.
The UK status is an unknown. The UK government has previously bought off Nissan and it is reasonable to expect them to pursue the same strategy as there is no other rational reason for manufacturing to continue in the UK unless their increased costs are subsidised by the taxpayer.
If you have another theory please present it rather than telling me that I "messed up" based on nothing but the most superficial thoughts on the matter.
If you want to witch hunt for news that show that Brexit is a disaster for UK and whine about it, feel free to do so. It's well within your rights. I am just here to point out that there are multiple threads like this purely based on speculations many of which have been proven wrong. But no one talks about them.
Back to the Nissan issue. The letter promises 80m pounds bailout under certain conditions. We know that 2.6m has been paid so far. Let's say the government is going to pay 80m of taxpayer's money. How do you compare that with the 8 billion euros bailout to auto industry announced by France and 3.75 billion euros announced by Spain? Are they also wrong? And Nissan just recently invested 400m pounds in the Sunderland plant.
You say that the reason Nissan shut down its Barcelona plant is because of the single market. By that logic, they would have shut down their UK plant if UK had remained in the EU?
We will only know the "truth'about Brexit in 3 or 4 years time.
What I do know it's a fucking massive gamble and people have put their trust in a group of politicians who seem to be allergic to the truth.
Actually the people put their trust in the 550 MP's in 2015 who voted to hold and honour the result of the referendum
Well that's not really true is it?
Did every 1 of those mps support Brexit?
If that were true brext would have been voted through in parliament.
Blimey you're rubbish at resent history Lionel.
How do you think we were allowed to have a referendum in the first place?
It went through parliament and was voted for with the MP's agreement they would honour the result what ever it was.
The reason it has become messed up is because many Labour MP's decided after the result they wouldn't honour their pledge.
Basically they lied!"
Fairly sure some tories were also against it?
And that's without getting into the while vipers nest of the legality of the leave campaign/type of Brexit we were promised debate
The people responsible for brexit are the peopple who pushed for us to leave. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Projected to be a loss to the UK or at best zero according to the government's own figures.
Good for New Zealand though.
That's nice of us.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-trade-deal-new-zealand-economy-jacinda-ardern-a9571421.html"
Hurah!!!!
Bet that's got leave voters masturbating furiously  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Yeah it's a great market you pay billions to get in and they sell you 70 billion plus more than you do. "
Ahh so they "force" us to buy 70 billion extra that we don't want then costa? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Projected to be a loss to the UK or at best zero according to the government's own figures.
Good for New Zealand though.
That's nice of us.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-trade-deal-new-zealand-economy-jacinda-ardern-a9571421.html
Hurah!!!!
Bet that's got leave voters masturbating furiously "
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
Sigh.
Let's see if we can approach this in a different way.
Perhaps you will actually address the points made this time rather than ignoring the because they are inconvenient?
Is your position that any research done in advance should be ignored or is it that this particular piece of information about the NZ trade deal should be ignored?
The government should ignore its own information?
How then do you decide if you should do any task and how much resource to commit to it?
You don't discuss anything until a deal is done?
You do not ask questions or try to change anything at the start of a process? You just accept the consequences at the end and accept them? You discuss the problems after they can no longer be changed?
It is an approach. Not my preferred one
Nobody said that Nissan would leave immediately. There has been no change to taxes or the terms of trade yet.
I would have thought that you would have some knowledge of a topic before expressing an opinion.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3881692/Ministers-sent-ditch-letter-promising-protect-Nissan-Brexit-costs-face-calls-reveal-details-deal-kept-car-maker-UK.html
https://news.sky.com/story/nissan-offered-80m-of-govt-cash-in-brexit-vote-fallout-11628069
The discussion was Nissan closing if there were a no deal Brexit.
You may have noticed that there has just been a global economic crash felt particularly strongly in the automotive industry.
This leads to an excess in global capacity for the Renault-Nissan-Mitsubishi Group amongst others.
My personal position has always that there will be a deal on the automotive industry and aerospace as it is particularly important to both sides. Agriculture too but the USA demands may now prevent this.
As the EU has completed a comprehensive trade deal with Japan, that we are about to leave, then from a company perspective they are making a decision about closures in a single market, hence Spain.
The UK status is an unknown. The UK government has previously bought off Nissan and it is reasonable to expect them to pursue the same strategy as there is no other rational reason for manufacturing to continue in the UK unless their increased costs are subsidised by the taxpayer.
If you have another theory please present it rather than telling me that I "messed up" based on nothing but the most superficial thoughts on the matter.
If you want to witch hunt for news that show that Brexit is a disaster for UK and whine about it, feel free to do so. It's well within your rights. I am just here to point out that there are multiple threads like this purely based on speculations many of which have been proven wrong. But no one talks about them.
Back to the Nissan issue. The letter promises 80m pounds bailout under certain conditions. We know that 2.6m has been paid so far. Let's say the government is going to pay 80m of taxpayer's money. How do you compare that with the 8 billion euros bailout to auto industry announced by France and 3.75 billion euros announced by Spain? Are they also wrong? And Nissan just recently invested 400m pounds in the Sunderland plant.
You say that the reason Nissan shut down its Barcelona plant is because of the single market. By that logic, they would have shut down their UK plant if UK had remained in the EU?
Ah. No rational explanation at all
Prove something wrong.
Does the NZ deal appear to be a good deal to pursue based on the information available? Yes or no?
Your position remains that no questions should be asked until it is all over. Then if it goes badly then nothing can be done.
Is that how you do all of your planning?
Have you noticed how I give you very direct answers whilst you avoid doing the same?
So there were payments to Nissan which the government denied? 2016.
There was not a global downturn or a pandemic then was there?
What do you think all these stimulus packages are for now? Brexit?
Do you imagine that the payments to Nissan in 2016 were pre-empting this?
A factory could be shut down anywhere in a global downturn should nobody be buying cars.
That's rather obvious is it not? Perhaps not to you "
I just pointed out a rational fallacy in your argument. Of course you will turn blind to it and call others irrational. I have been giving direct answers. If you are blinded by your political views, I can't help it.
Open your eyes and read my posts. I said you have all the rights to discuss and whine about things which haven't happened yet purely based on uninformed speculations. But if your speculations go wrong, maybe you should also acknowledge that it was wrong? Instead I see people just conveniently forgetting about it and moving on to the next negative news.
I very well know that the new stimulus package in EU is due to the pandemic. The stimulus package to Nissan was to encourage it to produce its new model cars in the UK plant. Yes, the tories did try to hide the truth and that's wrong. But pointing that out as the excuse for Nissan staying is laughable.
A factory will not be shut down "anywhere" during an economic turn down. There is plenty of thought that goes into deciding which ones they want to shut down. And they decided to shut down the one in EU while retaining the UK one. They are in fact, pumping in more money into the UK one. If stimulus is all they cared about, they would have retained their factories in EU too. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *asyuk OP Man
over a year ago
West London |
"
Sigh.
Let's see if we can approach this in a different way.
Perhaps you will actually address the points made this time rather than ignoring the because they are inconvenient?
Is your position that any research done in advance should be ignored or is it that this particular piece of information about the NZ trade deal should be ignored?
The government should ignore its own information?
How then do you decide if you should do any task and how much resource to commit to it?
You don't discuss anything until a deal is done?
You do not ask questions or try to change anything at the start of a process? You just accept the consequences at the end and accept them? You discuss the problems after they can no longer be changed?
It is an approach. Not my preferred one
Nobody said that Nissan would leave immediately. There has been no change to taxes or the terms of trade yet.
I would have thought that you would have some knowledge of a topic before expressing an opinion.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3881692/Ministers-sent-ditch-letter-promising-protect-Nissan-Brexit-costs-face-calls-reveal-details-deal-kept-car-maker-UK.html
https://news.sky.com/story/nissan-offered-80m-of-govt-cash-in-brexit-vote-fallout-11628069
The discussion was Nissan closing if there were a no deal Brexit.
You may have noticed that there has just been a global economic crash felt particularly strongly in the automotive industry.
This leads to an excess in global capacity for the Renault-Nissan-Mitsubishi Group amongst others.
My personal position has always that there will be a deal on the automotive industry and aerospace as it is particularly important to both sides. Agriculture too but the USA demands may now prevent this.
As the EU has completed a comprehensive trade deal with Japan, that we are about to leave, then from a company perspective they are making a decision about closures in a single market, hence Spain.
The UK status is an unknown. The UK government has previously bought off Nissan and it is reasonable to expect them to pursue the same strategy as there is no other rational reason for manufacturing to continue in the UK unless their increased costs are subsidised by the taxpayer.
If you have another theory please present it rather than telling me that I "messed up" based on nothing but the most superficial thoughts on the matter.
If you want to witch hunt for news that show that Brexit is a disaster for UK and whine about it, feel free to do so. It's well within your rights. I am just here to point out that there are multiple threads like this purely based on speculations many of which have been proven wrong. But no one talks about them.
Back to the Nissan issue. The letter promises 80m pounds bailout under certain conditions. We know that 2.6m has been paid so far. Let's say the government is going to pay 80m of taxpayer's money. How do you compare that with the 8 billion euros bailout to auto industry announced by France and 3.75 billion euros announced by Spain? Are they also wrong? And Nissan just recently invested 400m pounds in the Sunderland plant.
You say that the reason Nissan shut down its Barcelona plant is because of the single market. By that logic, they would have shut down their UK plant if UK had remained in the EU?
Ah. No rational explanation at all
Prove something wrong.
Does the NZ deal appear to be a good deal to pursue based on the information available? Yes or no?
Your position remains that no questions should be asked until it is all over. Then if it goes badly then nothing can be done.
Is that how you do all of your planning?
Have you noticed how I give you very direct answers whilst you avoid doing the same?
So there were payments to Nissan which the government denied? 2016.
There was not a global downturn or a pandemic then was there?
What do you think all these stimulus packages are for now? Brexit?
Do you imagine that the payments to Nissan in 2016 were pre-empting this?
A factory could be shut down anywhere in a global downturn should nobody be buying cars.
That's rather obvious is it not? Perhaps not to you
I just pointed out a rational fallacy in your argument. Of course you will turn blind to it and call others irrational. I have been giving direct answers. If you are blinded by your political views, I can't help it.
Open your eyes and read my posts. I said you have all the rights to discuss and whine about things which haven't happened yet purely based on uninformed speculations. But if your speculations go wrong, maybe you should also acknowledge that it was wrong? Instead I see people just conveniently forgetting about it and moving on to the next negative news.
I very well know that the new stimulus package in EU is due to the pandemic. The stimulus package to Nissan was to encourage it to produce its new model cars in the UK plant. Yes, the tories did try to hide the truth and that's wrong. But pointing that out as the excuse for Nissan staying is laughable.
A factory will not be shut down "anywhere" during an economic turn down. There is plenty of thought that goes into deciding which ones they want to shut down. And they decided to shut down the one in EU while retaining the UK one. They are in fact, pumping in more money into the UK one. If stimulus is all they cared about, they would have retained their factories in EU too."
You pointed nothing out.
Give me the logic of why you think that the UK government felt the need to lie to the population about subsidising Nissan at the same time that all car companies were vocally warning about the impact of a no deal Brexit?
Honda will soon have shuttered it's plant.
Vauxhall, now owned by Peugeot, is making the same noises as is Toyota.
Talk about turning a blind eye
Then trying to infer a connection exists between this and stimulus packages in other countries during a global pandemic and economic collapse. Why mention them?
A factory can be shut down in any location as a result of " plenty of thought".
Of course, the other interesting point to note is that Nissan is a budget brand and they think that they can sell more in the UK as competing imports are priced out and the luxury car market contracts.
All the while risk and cost mitigated with government guarantees.
Ah, the twist of turns in making money whilst an economy decides to impoverish itself.
Does a trade deal which your own research tells you is worse for you or at best neutral something you should pursue as a priority of at all?
Is your strategy still to do the deal and then be unable to alter it once you find it hurts you?
You have pointed out nothing except an able demonstration of the Dunning-Kruger effect |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *eroy1000Man
over a year ago
milton keynes |
Nissans best selling cars by far are made at the Sunderland plant and sold all over the place. A major place is of course the EU.
As the possible no deal brexit would mean tariffs would it not make more sense to close Sunderland and move the production of the cars to Barcelona instead of shutting it. This way they keep the best sellers within the EU to avoid tariffs. Surely they could have waited to see the outcome of the talks with the EU rather than committing to closing Barcelona |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *asyuk OP Man
over a year ago
West London |
"Nissans best selling cars by far are made at the Sunderland plant and sold all over the place. A major place is of course the EU.
As the possible no deal brexit would mean tariffs would it not make more sense to close Sunderland and move the production of the cars to Barcelona instead of shutting it. This way they keep the best sellers within the EU to avoid tariffs. Surely they could have waited to see the outcome of the talks with the EU rather than committing to closing Barcelona"
They need to close a plant anyway. They were in trouble before the virus hit.
If the UK government is making promises and slipping them cash (as they have before) then they may as well stay and take a punt on taking a bigger share of a more closed UK automotive market.
No risk to them to do so if we pick up the bills... |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *eroy1000Man
over a year ago
milton keynes |
"Nissans best selling cars by far are made at the Sunderland plant and sold all over the place. A major place is of course the EU.
As the possible no deal brexit would mean tariffs would it not make more sense to close Sunderland and move the production of the cars to Barcelona instead of shutting it. This way they keep the best sellers within the EU to avoid tariffs. Surely they could have waited to see the outcome of the talks with the EU rather than committing to closing Barcelona
They need to close a plant anyway. They were in trouble before the virus hit.
If the UK government is making promises and slipping them cash (as they have before) then they may as well stay and take a punt on taking a bigger share of a more closed UK automotive market.
No risk to them to do so if we pick up the bills..."
I understand what your saying though thought if they need to close a plant why choose one outside the EU. The UK market is far far to small to take up the slack. They will have no choice but to export especially as Sunderland makes the best selling Nissan cars in the EU.
It may be a punt but doubt Nissan bosses are in the habit of doing that |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *asyuk OP Man
over a year ago
West London |
"Nissans best selling cars by far are made at the Sunderland plant and sold all over the place. A major place is of course the EU.
As the possible no deal brexit would mean tariffs would it not make more sense to close Sunderland and move the production of the cars to Barcelona instead of shutting it. This way they keep the best sellers within the EU to avoid tariffs. Surely they could have waited to see the outcome of the talks with the EU rather than committing to closing Barcelona
They need to close a plant anyway. They were in trouble before the virus hit.
If the UK government is making promises and slipping them cash (as they have before) then they may as well stay and take a punt on taking a bigger share of a more closed UK automotive market.
No risk to them to do so if we pick up the bills...
I understand what your saying though thought if they need to close a plant why choose one outside the EU. The UK market is far far to small to take up the slack. They will have no choice but to export especially as Sunderland makes the best selling Nissan cars in the EU.
It may be a punt but doubt Nissan bosses are in the habit of doing that"
I'm not sure that I follow this.
If the UK government chooses to pay any differences in costs that they incur then it doesn't matter what side of the tariff wall they are on. If they cannot export to the EU but they sew up the low end UK market, they'll be happy. this is not a punt that costs them anything.
If they adjust production down and reduce the range, which seems likely, then they can manufacture in Japan or the EU at the rate they require. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *eroy1000Man
over a year ago
milton keynes |
"Nissans best selling cars by far are made at the Sunderland plant and sold all over the place. A major place is of course the EU.
As the possible no deal brexit would mean tariffs would it not make more sense to close Sunderland and move the production of the cars to Barcelona instead of shutting it. This way they keep the best sellers within the EU to avoid tariffs. Surely they could have waited to see the outcome of the talks with the EU rather than committing to closing Barcelona
They need to close a plant anyway. They were in trouble before the virus hit.
If the UK government is making promises and slipping them cash (as they have before) then they may as well stay and take a punt on taking a bigger share of a more closed UK automotive market.
No risk to them to do so if we pick up the bills...
I understand what your saying though thought if they need to close a plant why choose one outside the EU. The UK market is far far to small to take up the slack. They will have no choice but to export especially as Sunderland makes the best selling Nissan cars in the EU.
It may be a punt but doubt Nissan bosses are in the habit of doing that
I'm not sure that I follow this.
If the UK government chooses to pay any differences in costs that they incur then it doesn't matter what side of the tariff wall they are on. If they cannot export to the EU but they sew up the low end UK market, they'll be happy. this is not a punt that costs them anything.
If they adjust production down and reduce the range, which seems likely, then they can manufacture in Japan or the EU at the rate they require."
The point of the tariff recycling scheme is so that they can continue exporting to the EU. It's that scheme that will pay any differences Nissan endures. No taxpayer money is involved. When that minister said the tax payer won't directly contribute it does make me wonder if its this scheme they are thinking of. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *asyuk OP Man
over a year ago
West London |
"Nissans best selling cars by far are made at the Sunderland plant and sold all over the place. A major place is of course the EU.
As the possible no deal brexit would mean tariffs would it not make more sense to close Sunderland and move the production of the cars to Barcelona instead of shutting it. This way they keep the best sellers within the EU to avoid tariffs. Surely they could have waited to see the outcome of the talks with the EU rather than committing to closing Barcelona
They need to close a plant anyway. They were in trouble before the virus hit.
If the UK government is making promises and slipping them cash (as they have before) then they may as well stay and take a punt on taking a bigger share of a more closed UK automotive market.
No risk to them to do so if we pick up the bills...
I understand what your saying though thought if they need to close a plant why choose one outside the EU. The UK market is far far to small to take up the slack. They will have no choice but to export especially as Sunderland makes the best selling Nissan cars in the EU.
It may be a punt but doubt Nissan bosses are in the habit of doing that
I'm not sure that I follow this.
If the UK government chooses to pay any differences in costs that they incur then it doesn't matter what side of the tariff wall they are on. If they cannot export to the EU but they sew up the low end UK market, they'll be happy. this is not a punt that costs them anything.
If they adjust production down and reduce the range, which seems likely, then they can manufacture in Japan or the EU at the rate they require.
The point of the tariff recycling scheme is so that they can continue exporting to the EU. It's that scheme that will pay any differences Nissan endures. No taxpayer money is involved. When that minister said the tax payer won't directly contribute it does make me wonder if its this scheme they are thinking of. "
The taxpayer does pay. Tariffs are used as subsidy for private industry.
Likley a WTO case for state subsidy though. Of a foreign own brand which is how messed up we've got in the UK. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *eroy1000Man
over a year ago
milton keynes |
"Nissans best selling cars by far are made at the Sunderland plant and sold all over the place. A major place is of course the EU.
As the possible no deal brexit would mean tariffs would it not make more sense to close Sunderland and move the production of the cars to Barcelona instead of shutting it. This way they keep the best sellers within the EU to avoid tariffs. Surely they could have waited to see the outcome of the talks with the EU rather than committing to closing Barcelona
They need to close a plant anyway. They were in trouble before the virus hit.
If the UK government is making promises and slipping them cash (as they have before) then they may as well stay and take a punt on taking a bigger share of a more closed UK automotive market.
No risk to them to do so if we pick up the bills...
I understand what your saying though thought if they need to close a plant why choose one outside the EU. The UK market is far far to small to take up the slack. They will have no choice but to export especially as Sunderland makes the best selling Nissan cars in the EU.
It may be a punt but doubt Nissan bosses are in the habit of doing that
I'm not sure that I follow this.
If the UK government chooses to pay any differences in costs that they incur then it doesn't matter what side of the tariff wall they are on. If they cannot export to the EU but they sew up the low end UK market, they'll be happy. this is not a punt that costs them anything.
If they adjust production down and reduce the range, which seems likely, then they can manufacture in Japan or the EU at the rate they require.
The point of the tariff recycling scheme is so that they can continue exporting to the EU. It's that scheme that will pay any differences Nissan endures. No taxpayer money is involved. When that minister said the tax payer won't directly contribute it does make me wonder if its this scheme they are thinking of.
The taxpayer does pay. Tariffs are used as subsidy for private industry.
Likley a WTO case for state subsidy though. Of a foreign own brand which is how messed up we've got in the UK."
They way it was explained is that tariffs paid to a country via trade are classed as normal income for said country. The UK benefits already from some tariff money.
Yes EU rules do not allow state aid and they are strict. WTO rules do allow most state aid or so they say.
It does sound rather a legal tangle is possible.
Just a thought though if Nissan do what you predict and only sell in the UK then they will avoid tariffs completely as it only applies to exports so again no tax payer money. I have my doubts about that approach as Sunderland only has a few models and the only supplier in Europe of those models |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *asyuk OP Man
over a year ago
West London |
"Nissans best selling cars by far are made at the Sunderland plant and sold all over the place. A major place is of course the EU.
As the possible no deal brexit would mean tariffs would it not make more sense to close Sunderland and move the production of the cars to Barcelona instead of shutting it. This way they keep the best sellers within the EU to avoid tariffs. Surely they could have waited to see the outcome of the talks with the EU rather than committing to closing Barcelona
They need to close a plant anyway. They were in trouble before the virus hit.
If the UK government is making promises and slipping them cash (as they have before) then they may as well stay and take a punt on taking a bigger share of a more closed UK automotive market.
No risk to them to do so if we pick up the bills...
I understand what your saying though thought if they need to close a plant why choose one outside the EU. The UK market is far far to small to take up the slack. They will have no choice but to export especially as Sunderland makes the best selling Nissan cars in the EU.
It may be a punt but doubt Nissan bosses are in the habit of doing that
I'm not sure that I follow this.
If the UK government chooses to pay any differences in costs that they incur then it doesn't matter what side of the tariff wall they are on. If they cannot export to the EU but they sew up the low end UK market, they'll be happy. this is not a punt that costs them anything.
If they adjust production down and reduce the range, which seems likely, then they can manufacture in Japan or the EU at the rate they require.
The point of the tariff recycling scheme is so that they can continue exporting to the EU. It's that scheme that will pay any differences Nissan endures. No taxpayer money is involved. When that minister said the tax payer won't directly contribute it does make me wonder if its this scheme they are thinking of.
The taxpayer does pay. Tariffs are used as subsidy for private industry.
Likley a WTO case for state subsidy though. Of a foreign own brand which is how messed up we've got in the UK.
They way it was explained is that tariffs paid to a country via trade are classed as normal income for said country. The UK benefits already from some tariff money.
Yes EU rules do not allow state aid and they are strict. WTO rules do allow most state aid or so they say.
It does sound rather a legal tangle is possible.
Just a thought though if Nissan do what you predict and only sell in the UK then they will avoid tariffs completely as it only applies to exports so again no tax payer money. I have my doubts about that approach as Sunderland only has a few models and the only supplier in Europe of those models"
Nissan is a global manufacturer. Nissan has excess capacity now, as does Nissan.
That's why they closed a factory. Production can shift if necessary.
There were no tariffs in 2016 but Nissan were still secretly offered cash by the UK government.
Odds on there will be a deal on automotive and aerospace if nothing else as they are of mutual importance but you can bet that Nissan will retain UK Government "goodwill".
This is a thread about the New Zealand trade deal.
What are your thoughts on that being a good idea with regard to the "benefits" in the article? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
» Add a new message to this topic
