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Boris and vivid response
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"The UK has the second highest death toll in Europe Eight in the world In spite of a great health system A long litany of his failures has led to this Wasted precious time talking herd immunity while rest of world was locking down,even in lockdown his mixed messages "I will continue to shake hands",way to late in tracking and tracing cases,not,refused 3 tes to buy PPE gear with eu, Cheltenham fiasco,care home failures,and so it continues The numbers of deaths don't lie " So what would you have done ? | |||
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"The UK has the second highest death toll in Europe Eight in the world In spite of a great health system A long litany of his failures has led to this Wasted precious time talking herd immunity while rest of world was locking down,even in lockdown his mixed messages "I will continue to shake hands",way to late in tracking and tracing cases,not,refused 3 tes to buy PPE gear with eu, Cheltenham fiasco,care home failures,and so it continues The numbers of deaths don't lie So what would you have done ? " Taken the results of Exercise Cygnus seriously, perhaps? Spent money (which we know, for sure, can be found at will) preparing and, like New Zealand, reacted swiftly and decisively as soon as what was going on in Wuhan was known. That could have been done. It wasn't. Why? A combination of indifference and incompetence. | |||
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"Was it wrong to discuss herd immunity? " No. inaction, indecisiveness, delays, confusing instructions and inadequate controls, bad resourcing of healthcare - that was wrong, he’s primarily to blame for all that | |||
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"The UK has the second highest death toll in Europe Eight in the world In spite of a great health system A long litany of his failures has led to this Wasted precious time talking herd immunity while rest of world was locking down,even in lockdown his mixed messages "I will continue to shake hands",way to late in tracking and tracing cases,not,refused 3 tes to buy PPE gear with eu, Cheltenham fiasco,care home failures,and so it continues The numbers of deaths don't lie " HINDSIGHT | meaning in the Cambridge English Dictionary · the ability to understand an event or situation only after it has happened: With (the benefit/wisdom of) hindsight ... Tis a wonderful thing!   | |||
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"The UK has the second highest death toll in Europe Eight in the world In spite of a great health system A long litany of his failures has led to this Wasted precious time talking herd immunity while rest of world was locking down,even in lockdown his mixed messages "I will continue to shake hands",way to late in tracking and tracing cases,not,refused 3 tes to buy PPE gear with eu, Cheltenham fiasco,care home failures,and so it continues The numbers of deaths don't lie HINDSIGHT | meaning in the Cambridge English Dictionary · the ability to understand an event or situation only after it has happened: With (the benefit/wisdom of) hindsight ... Tis a wonderful thing! "Not hindsight at all I'm just looking at what other government leaders have done and are doing Leaders of countries that are managing this a lot better than boris | |||
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"I think you are wasting your time here as most seem to support him. But you are correct. Unfortunately it seems in the UK we have the pm we deserve , we should look in the mirror as to why we have chosen him to lead us. He lies, he cheats , he’s incompetent, he a racist, self interest and arrogance drive his actions and decisions. " Racist? How do you conclude that? | |||
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"The UK has the second highest death toll in Europe Eight in the world In spite of a great health system A long litany of his failures has led to this Wasted precious time talking herd immunity while rest of world was locking down,even in lockdown his mixed messages "I will continue to shake hands",way to late in tracking and tracing cases,not,refused 3 tes to buy PPE gear with eu, Cheltenham fiasco,care home failures,and so it continues The numbers of deaths don't lie HINDSIGHT | meaning in the Cambridge English Dictionary · the ability to understand an event or situation only after it has happened: With (the benefit/wisdom of) hindsight ... Tis a wonderful thing!
Not hindsight at all
I'm just looking at what other government leaders have done and are doing
Leaders of countries that are managing this a lot better than boris"A lot of them didn't prioritise crowdfunding bongs for Big Ben in January, take half of February off and then work on a speech saying that because we're British we don't have to shut down like the rest of the world (Greenwich brexit speech if you're not sure). How many PMQs has he actually attended? I wasn't a fan of Corbyn's leadership style but he was bang on the money when he called him a part-time PM. | |||
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"I think you are wasting your time here as most seem to support him. But you are correct. Unfortunately it seems in the UK we have the pm we deserve , we should look in the mirror as to why we have chosen him to lead us. He lies, he cheats , he’s incompetent, he a racist, self interest and arrogance drive his actions and decisions. Racist? How do you conclude that? " So we agree on he lies,cheats, incompetent,self interested,arrogant? Called Muslim women letterboxes Said black people have water melon smiles,off top of my head I'm sure there's more | |||
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"I think you are wasting your time here as most seem to support him. But you are correct. Unfortunately it seems in the UK we have the pm we deserve , we should look in the mirror as to why we have chosen him to lead us. He lies, he cheats , he’s incompetent, he a racist, self interest and arrogance drive his actions and decisions. " A Tory MP basically | |||
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"I think you are wasting your time here as most seem to support him. But you are correct. Unfortunately it seems in the UK we have the pm we deserve , we should look in the mirror as to why we have chosen him to lead us. He lies, he cheats , he’s incompetent, he a racist, self interest and arrogance drive his actions and decisions. Racist? How do you conclude that? " Well he did describe POCs as "grinning piccaninies with watermelon smiles" and Muslim women as looking like "bank robbers and letter boxes" so that does sound a bit racist tbh... | |||
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"Was it wrong to discuss herd immunity? No. inaction, indecisiveness, delays, confusing instructions and inadequate controls, bad resourcing of healthcare - that was wrong, he’s primarily to blame for all that " 
At the end of the day if no vaccine is forthcoming, which is more than a strong possibility. Herd immunity will be the only real option left on the table. | |||
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"The UK has the second highest death toll in Europe Eight in the world In spite of a great health system A long litany of his failures has led to this Wasted precious time talking herd immunity while rest of world was locking down,even in lockdown his mixed messages "I will continue to shake hands",way to late in tracking and tracing cases,not,refused 3 tes to buy PPE gear with eu, Cheltenham fiasco,care home failures,and so it continues The numbers of deaths don't lie HINDSIGHT | meaning in the Cambridge English Dictionary · the ability to understand an event or situation only after it has happened: With (the benefit/wisdom of) hindsight ... Tis a wonderful thing!
Not hindsight at all
I'm just looking at what other government leaders have done and are doing
Leaders of countries that are managing this a lot better than boris
A lot of them didn't prioritise crowdfunding bongs for Big Ben in January, take half of February off and then work on a speech saying that because we're British we don't have to shut down like the rest of the world (Greenwich brexit speech if you're not sure).
How many PMQs has he actually attended? I wasn't a fan of Corbyn's leadership style but he was bang on the money when he called him a part-time PM. "When he does attend he says UK are past the peak He's bettwr for the UK if he stays in fucking bed | |||
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"The UK has the second highest death toll in Europe Eight in the world In spite of a great health system A long litany of his failures has led to this Wasted precious time talking herd immunity while rest of world was locking down,even in lockdown his mixed messages "I will continue to shake hands",way to late in tracking and tracing cases,not,refused 3 tes to buy PPE gear with eu, Cheltenham fiasco,care home failures,and so it continues The numbers of deaths don't lie HINDSIGHT | meaning in the Cambridge English Dictionary · the ability to understand an event or situation only after it has happened: With (the benefit/wisdom of) hindsight ... Tis a wonderful thing! "You do know that this government a few years ago had a massive "what to do in the event of a global pandemic" training exercise and afterwards comlpletely ignored all the recommendations from it dont you? | |||
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"I think you are wasting your time here as most seem to support him. But you are correct. Unfortunately it seems in the UK we have the pm we deserve , we should look in the mirror as to why we have chosen him to lead us. He lies, he cheats , he’s incompetent, he a racist, self interest and arrogance drive his actions and decisions. A Tory MP basically" Probably the majority of politicians (but nice to hope some are decent human beings)  | |||
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"I think you are wasting your time here as most seem to support him. But you are correct. Unfortunately it seems in the UK we have the pm we deserve , we should look in the mirror as to why we have chosen him to lead us. He lies, he cheats , he’s incompetent, he a racist, self interest and arrogance drive his actions and decisions. Racist? How do you conclude that? So we agree on he lies,cheats, incompetent,self interested,arrogant? Called Muslim women letterboxes Said black people have water melon smiles,off top of my head I'm sure there's more" Has he been taking lessons from trump? I've never seen a watermelon smile  . | |||
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"What I like are the opportunists. Showing ingenuity to exploit a situation From the businesses with price gouging on PPE the banks and numerous irrelevant products saying they are in it with us the virtue signalling clappers who will be arranging meets as I type - and not forgetting the press and those who say it could have been done better when NO bugger knows what actually has been done or what 'It' even is. We will all wait - and with grace - most us will learn. At that point I will gladly have the argument about who should be in jail and who should have a round of applause. "This | |||
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"Another one who only reads headlines and does not understand how the stats are compiled. If you actually read what Boris said about letterboxes you would realise it was in support of muslim women being able to wear what they want. The UK were tracking and tracing from January until the number got too high for this to be sensible to do so. Do a bit of research rather then being a sheep and following the flock" But now UK are contact tracing again!!!! Why stop and start 3 weeks later Huge failure and more time and lives lost After march 12 when Traci g stopped cases soared | |||
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"Another one who only reads headlines and does not understand how the stats are compiled. If you actually read what Boris said about letterboxes you would realise it was in support of muslim women being able to wear what they want." The problem is that the average s*n reader only reads the headlines too. Yes, your analysis of the article is correct. The issue comes with how he says it. This article directly led to a spike in race hate crime because he doesn't believe his words have consequences. | |||
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"Another one who only reads headlines and does not understand how the stats are compiled. If you actually read what Boris said about letterboxes you would realise it was in support of muslim women being able to wear what they want. The UK were tracking and tracing from January until the number got too high for this to be sensible to do so. Do a bit of research rather then being a sheep and following the flock" Some creative defence that..it was at best a massively insensitive borderline racist comment. And there was also that picannies quote. Not to mention a litany of sexist remarks. Stil The public gets what's the public wants . | |||
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"Ffs ! What is it with people ? All the “touch line managers “ who are experts. Why the hell as a country are we so pre-occupied with apportioning blame? Will there be a time for reflection and the taking of responsibility? Yes there will - but slap bang in the middle of it isn’t it ! No ONE person is responsible for the ills of the world - this is an unprecedented situation in probably the living memory of 99.9% recurring of the people on this site, and of a massive percentage of the population of the UK in general. Why can’t, at least for now, we just stop bloody finger pointing and try to bring some positivity. It’s bad enough that the media just focusses on the negatives (mainly to raise the correspondents own profile and feeling of self importance- not due to any fantastic drive for journalistic integrity and a “hunt for the truth”. How about, if only on this site , we try to focus o whatever positives there may be. Let’s try and stop being judgemental ( and how hypocritical is that - swingers brings judgemental when they’d get the right bump if they were “judged” for being swingers ) and take a second to think how lucky we are not to be in the unenviable position of having to try to tip-toe through the minefield that is this situation. (These opinions are exclusively the rambling thoughts of Fire - Smoke takes no responsibility for them !) Big love all " I'm all for positivity but as a Scouser who has seen 30 years of cover up from Hillsborough, the fallout from Orgreave, Grenfell, the Russia Report, the Acuri Report and more - If we don't ask the hard questions now then they won't get asked. Officially there are currently 27,510 reasons to push those questions. | |||
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"Ffs ! What is it with people ? All the “touch line managers “ who are experts. Why the hell as a country are we so pre-occupied with apportioning blame? Will there be a time for reflection and the taking of responsibility? Yes there will - but slap bang in the middle of it isn’t it ! No ONE person is responsible for the ills of the world - this is an unprecedented situation in probably the living memory of 99.9% recurring of the people on this site, and of a massive percentage of the population of the UK in general. Why can’t, at least for now, we just stop bloody finger pointing and try to bring some positivity. It’s bad enough that the media just focusses on the negatives (mainly to raise the correspondents own profile and feeling of self importance- not due to any fantastic drive for journalistic integrity and a “hunt for the truth”. How about, if only on this site , we try to focus o whatever positives there may be. Let’s try and stop being judgemental ( and how hypocritical is that - swingers brings judgemental when they’d get the right bump if they were “judged” for being swingers ) and take a second to think how lucky we are not to be in the unenviable position of having to try to tip-toe through the minefield that is this situation. (These opinions are exclusively the rambling thoughts of Fire - Smoke takes no responsibility for them !) Big love all " | |||
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"Cut fire services as London mayor, contributing to Grenfell. When challenged at Mayor's Question Time, told the Assembly Member to "get stuffed". " Grenfell was an absolute tragedy but it was the use of the cladding that caused it - you could have thrown resources at trying to tackle the fire and still lost the battle. And although not refuting your second point (or defending against it - purely being devils advocate ), unless people were there and witnessed it themselves , could it perhaps have been a good natured “get stuffed”? That Is I suppose one of the issues with reporting , it’s not first person , so therefore it is perhaps to be viewed as heresay , and can be influenced by the “slant” placed upon it by the person reporting it | |||
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"Ffs ! What is it with people ? All the “touch line managers “ who are experts. Why the hell as a country are we so pre-occupied with apportioning blame? Will there be a time for reflection and the taking of responsibility? Yes there will - but slap bang in the middle of it isn’t it ! No ONE person is responsible for the ills of the world - this is an unprecedented situation in probably the living memory of 99.9% recurring of the people on this site, and of a massive percentage of the population of the UK in general. Why can’t, at least for now, we just stop bloody finger pointing and try to bring some positivity. It’s bad enough that the media just focusses on the negatives (mainly to raise the correspondents own profile and feeling of self importance- not due to any fantastic drive for journalistic integrity and a “hunt for the truth”. How about, if only on this site , we try to focus o whatever positives there may be. Let’s try and stop being judgemental ( and how hypocritical is that - swingers brings judgemental when they’d get the right bump if they were “judged” for being swingers ) and take a second to think how lucky we are not to be in the unenviable position of having to try to tip-toe through the minefield that is this situation. (These opinions are exclusively the rambling thoughts of Fire - Smoke takes no responsibility for them !) Big love all " I'm not huge fan of the media but I find it interesting there is a lot of finger pointing going on. Its the biggest news story in decades as for positivity that fella who raised the money in charity got a huge amount of coverage as does the support for nurses,carers etc. | |||
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"Ffs ! What is it with people ? All the “touch line managers “ who are experts. Why the hell as a country are we so pre-occupied with apportioning blame? Will there be a time for reflection and the taking of responsibility? Yes there will - but slap bang in the middle of it isn’t it ! No ONE person is responsible for the ills of the world - this is an unprecedented situation in probably the living memory of 99.9% recurring of the people on this site, and of a massive percentage of the population of the UK in general. Why can’t, at least for now, we just stop bloody finger pointing and try to bring some positivity. It’s bad enough that the media just focusses on the negatives (mainly to raise the correspondents own profile and feeling of self importance- not due to any fantastic drive for journalistic integrity and a “hunt for the truth”. How about, if only on this site , we try to focus o whatever positives there may be. Let’s try and stop being judgemental ( and how hypocritical is that - swingers brings judgemental when they’d get the right bump if they were “judged” for being swingers ) and take a second to think how lucky we are not to be in the unenviable position of having to try to tip-toe through the minefield that is this situation. (These opinions are exclusively the rambling thoughts of Fire - Smoke takes no responsibility for them !) Big love all " Trouble is, nobody takes the blame. Look at his record, has passed the buck his whole career. I suppose, if you haven't lost somebody close to you, none of this will matter. I haven't, but if I had, I'd want answers too. | |||
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"As Frankie Boyle has just pointed out. Many Newspapers are on the verge of going bust so it’s never been more important to not buy one. Here’s hoping the Mail Sun and Guardian get consigned to History. " Not sure what the guardian has done. The other 2 are the best selling papers in the country.Though I think the rag may be having problems? | |||
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"The UK has the second highest death toll in Europe Eight in the world In spite of a great health system A long litany of his failures has led to this Wasted precious time talking herd immunity while rest of world was locking down,even in lockdown his mixed messages "I will continue to shake hands",way to late in tracking and tracing cases,not,refused 3 tes to buy PPE gear with eu, Cheltenham fiasco,care home failures,and so it continues The numbers of deaths don't lie HINDSIGHT | meaning in the Cambridge English Dictionary · the ability to understand an event or situation only after it has happened: With (the benefit/wisdom of) hindsight ... Tis a wonderful thing! "Thankfully we had the hindsight of October 2016, Cygnus epidemic readiness testing, where we learned we were unprepared with lack of materials and resources, followed by 2019, with the same dire conclusion. We also had the benefit of hindsight, not having been the first country to be affected, as well as the WHO issuing some simple guidelines, if hard of thinking leaderships were struggling. Ops conclusions are realistic. We should have been preparing from January, reviewing what we had deficits with and planning then, with a clear plan and contingency measures in place. Locked down earlier. Tested in depth. Had the protective measures for health and care staff. Contact traced continuously. And not been negligent by contributing to thousands of deaths. We learn as we progress, even with gritted teeth. | |||
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" The numbers of deaths don't lie " Really? When you could get run over by a bus but if you tested positive you would be included in the figures. | |||
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"Ffs ! What is it with people ? All the “touch line managers “ who are experts. Why the hell as a country are we so pre-occupied with apportioning blame? Will there be a time for reflection and the taking of responsibility? Yes there will - but slap bang in the middle of it isn’t it ! No ONE person is responsible for the ills of the world - this is an unprecedented situation in probably the living memory of 99.9% recurring of the people on this site, and of a massive percentage of the population of the UK in general. Why can’t, at least for now, we just stop bloody finger pointing and try to bring some positivity. It’s bad enough that the media just focusses on the negatives (mainly to raise the correspondents own profile and feeling of self importance- not due to any fantastic drive for journalistic integrity and a “hunt for the truth”. How about, if only on this site , we try to focus o whatever positives there may be. Let’s try and stop being judgemental ( and how hypocritical is that - swingers brings judgemental when they’d get the right bump if they were “judged” for being swingers ) and take a second to think how lucky we are not to be in the unenviable position of having to try to tip-toe through the minefield that is this situation. (These opinions are exclusively the rambling thoughts of Fire - Smoke takes no responsibility for them !) Big love all I'm all for positivity but as a Scouser who has seen 30 years of cover up from Hillsborough, the fallout from Orgreave, Grenfell, the Russia Report, the Acuri Report and more - If we don't ask the hard questions now then they won't get asked. Officially there are currently 27,510 reasons to push those questions." There is a massive difference in asking questions and finger pointing. Also when it comes to human nature , you have to take into account that unless the person asking the question gets the answer they want (which in general is an answer that affirms their already formed opinion of the subject of the question), then it doesn’t matter when you ask the questions, there will be people who don’t like the answers. Ask the questions by all means , but then be open minded enough to not just immediately discount the answer. Reflect on it, compare to your own opinion, perhaps do some research yourself, and then you can make a final and objective decision in relation to the response. And yes - that takes time - and data - both commodities that at the moment might not be readily available. | |||
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"Ffs ! What is it with people ? All the “touch line managers “ who are experts. Why the hell as a country are we so pre-occupied with apportioning blame? Will there be a time for reflection and the taking of responsibility? Yes there will - but slap bang in the middle of it isn’t it ! No ONE person is responsible for the ills of the world - this is an unprecedented situation in probably the living memory of 99.9% recurring of the people on this site, and of a massive percentage of the population of the UK in general. Why can’t, at least for now, we just stop bloody finger pointing and try to bring some positivity. It’s bad enough that the media just focusses on the negatives (mainly to raise the correspondents own profile and feeling of self importance- not due to any fantastic drive for journalistic integrity and a “hunt for the truth”. How about, if only on this site , we try to focus o whatever positives there may be. Let’s try and stop being judgemental ( and how hypocritical is that - swingers brings judgemental when they’d get the right bump if they were “judged” for being swingers ) and take a second to think how lucky we are not to be in the unenviable position of having to try to tip-toe through the minefield that is this situation. (These opinions are exclusively the rambling thoughts of Fire - Smoke takes no responsibility for them !) Big love all I'm all for positivity but as a Scouser who has seen 30 years of cover up from Hillsborough, the fallout from Orgreave, Grenfell, the Russia Report, the Acuri Report and more - If we don't ask the hard questions now then they won't get asked. Officially there are currently 27,510 reasons to push those questions." 27,000???!!! Another Boris lie That only includes hospital deaths Ignoring the care homes,what Boris is good at Real number is over 40,000 | |||
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"Another one who only reads headlines and does not understand how the stats are compiled. If you actually read what Boris said about letterboxes you would realise it was in support of muslim women being able to wear what they want. The UK were tracking and tracing from January until the number got too high for this to be sensible to do so. Do a bit of research rather then being a sheep and following the flock Some creative defence that..it was at best a massively insensitive borderline racist comment. And there was also that picannies quote. Not to mention a litany of sexist remarks. Stil The public gets what's the public wants ." You haven’t read the actual article have you... | |||
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"Another one who only reads headlines and does not understand how the stats are compiled. If you actually read what Boris said about letterboxes you would realise it was in support of muslim women being able to wear what they want. The UK were tracking and tracing from January until the number got too high for this to be sensible to do so. Do a bit of research rather then being a sheep and following the flock Some creative defence that..it was at best a massively insensitive borderline racist comment. And there was also that picannies quote. Not to mention a litany of sexist remarks. Stil The public gets what's the public wants . You haven’t read the actual article have you..." Which article? | |||
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"Ffs ! What is it with people ? All the “touch line managers “ who are experts. Why the hell as a country are we so pre-occupied with apportioning blame? Will there be a time for reflection and the taking of responsibility? Yes there will - but slap bang in the middle of it isn’t it ! No ONE person is responsible for the ills of the world - this is an unprecedented situation in probably the living memory of 99.9% recurring of the people on this site, and of a massive percentage of the population of the UK in general. Why can’t, at least for now, we just stop bloody finger pointing and try to bring some positivity. It’s bad enough that the media just focusses on the negatives (mainly to raise the correspondents own profile and feeling of self importance- not due to any fantastic drive for journalistic integrity and a “hunt for the truth”. How about, if only on this site , we try to focus o whatever positives there may be. Let’s try and stop being judgemental ( and how hypocritical is that - swingers brings judgemental when they’d get the right bump if they were “judged” for being swingers ) and take a second to think how lucky we are not to be in the unenviable position of having to try to tip-toe through the minefield that is this situation. (These opinions are exclusively the rambling thoughts of Fire - Smoke takes no responsibility for them !) Big love all I'm all for positivity but as a Scouser who has seen 30 years of cover up from Hillsborough, the fallout from Orgreave, Grenfell, the Russia Report, the Acuri Report and more - If we don't ask the hard questions now then they won't get asked. Officially there are currently 27,510 reasons to push those questions. 27,000???!!! Another Boris lie That only includes hospital deaths Ignoring the care homes,what Boris is good at Real number is over 40,000" Check the facts ! | |||
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"Another one who only reads headlines and does not understand how the stats are compiled. If you actually read what Boris said about letterboxes you would realise it was in support of muslim women being able to wear what they want. The UK were tracking and tracing from January until the number got too high for this to be sensible to do so. Do a bit of research rather then being a sheep and following the flock Some creative defence that..it was at best a massively insensitive borderline racist comment. And there was also that picannies quote. Not to mention a litany of sexist remarks. Stil The public gets what's the public wants . You haven’t read the actual article have you... Which article?"  ... | |||
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"Another one who only reads headlines and does not understand how the stats are compiled. If you actually read what Boris said about letterboxes you would realise it was in support of muslim women being able to wear what they want. The UK were tracking and tracing from January until the number got too high for this to be sensible to do so. Do a bit of research rather then being a sheep and following the flock Some creative defence that..it was at best a massively insensitive borderline racist comment. And there was also that picannies quote. Not to mention a litany of sexist remarks. Stil The public gets what's the public wants . You haven’t read the actual article have you... Which article? ..."There are lots of them out there.It was a defence against liberalism but it was also extremely crass which was why he had to apologise. What about the watermelons comment? | |||
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"Ffs ! What is it with people ? All the “touch line managers “ who are experts. Why the hell as a country are we so pre-occupied with apportioning blame? Will there be a time for reflection and the taking of responsibility? Yes there will - but slap bang in the middle of it isn’t it ! No ONE person is responsible for the ills of the world - this is an unprecedented situation in probably the living memory of 99.9% recurring of the people on this site, and of a massive percentage of the population of the UK in general. Why can’t, at least for now, we just stop bloody finger pointing and try to bring some positivity. It’s bad enough that the media just focusses on the negatives (mainly to raise the correspondents own profile and feeling of self importance- not due to any fantastic drive for journalistic integrity and a “hunt for the truth”. How about, if only on this site , we try to focus o whatever positives there may be. Let’s try and stop being judgemental ( and how hypocritical is that - swingers brings judgemental when they’d get the right bump if they were “judged” for being swingers ) and take a second to think how lucky we are not to be in the unenviable position of having to try to tip-toe through the minefield that is this situation. (These opinions are exclusively the rambling thoughts of Fire - Smoke takes no responsibility for them !) Big love all I'm all for positivity but as a Scouser who has seen 30 years of cover up from Hillsborough, the fallout from Orgreave, Grenfell, the Russia Report, the Acuri Report and more - If we don't ask the hard questions now then they won't get asked. Officially there are currently 27,510 reasons to push those questions. 27,000???!!! Another Boris lie That only includes hospital deaths Ignoring the care homes,what Boris is good at Real number is over 40,000" Unless it is a lie, that number DOES include outside of hospital deaths But I do feel it will not be accurate and there will still be a lag in the true figures. There were too many variables in why we couldn't have the total number in the first place, and I cannot imagine every variable has now been sorted. Hence, an estimate. We won't have the true figures until after the crisis. | |||
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"Grenfell was an absolute tragedy but it was the use of the cladding that caused it - you could have thrown resources at trying to tackle the fire and still lost the battle. And although not refuting your second point (or defending against it - purely being devils advocate ), unless people were there and witnessed it themselves , could it perhaps have been a good natured “get stuffed”? That Is I suppose one of the issues with reporting , it’s not first person , so therefore it is perhaps to be viewed as heresay , and can be influenced by the “slant” placed upon it by the person reporting it " Yes, the battle at Grenfell was lost before it even started because of the cladding. But as recently as just before Christmas the enquiry appointed and was then forced to remove a woman from one of the companies responsible for approving the cladding. The corruption is ingrained in these people. They feel entitled to fuck the "little people" over for profit. That's why if we don't ask questions of the government now while it's live, you won't get answers in this generation. For clarity, the "get stuffed" was before Grenfell and during heated questions about the fire service cuts. But it's another demonstration of Johnson's problem with scrutiny. He's 2 months away from a year in the job but how many times has he been at PMQs since? | |||
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"Ffs ! What is it with people ? All the “touch line managers “ who are experts. Why the hell as a country are we so pre-occupied with apportioning blame? Will there be a time for reflection and the taking of responsibility? Yes there will - but slap bang in the middle of it isn’t it ! No ONE person is responsible for the ills of the world - this is an unprecedented situation in probably the living memory of 99.9% recurring of the people on this site, and of a massive percentage of the population of the UK in general. Why can’t, at least for now, we just stop bloody finger pointing and try to bring some positivity. It’s bad enough that the media just focusses on the negatives (mainly to raise the correspondents own profile and feeling of self importance- not due to any fantastic drive for journalistic integrity and a “hunt for the truth”. How about, if only on this site , we try to focus o whatever positives there may be. Let’s try and stop being judgemental ( and how hypocritical is that - swingers brings judgemental when they’d get the right bump if they were “judged” for being swingers ) and take a second to think how lucky we are not to be in the unenviable position of having to try to tip-toe through the minefield that is this situation. (These opinions are exclusively the rambling thoughts of Fire - Smoke takes no responsibility for them !) Big love all Trouble is, nobody takes the blame. Look at his record, has passed the buck his whole career. I suppose, if you haven't lost somebody close to you, none of this will matter. I haven't, but if I had, I'd want answers too. " Just him that hasn’t taken the blame ? No other politicians who haven’t accepted respond for their decisions or actions ? Yes let’s have answers about any mistakes COLLECTIVELY made in relation to this situation. But , here’s another question for people to ponder regarding taking blame for people dying. How many of us may have had the virus without knowing before the awareness was heightened. How many of us may have then passed the virus onto somebody else , who, although they suffered no symptoms, then transmitted it further. Now somewhere down the line , somebody dies fromCOVID associated complications...... And before anybody takes a pop - have a look in the mirror and ask if you’ve acted 109% responsibly in relation to social distancing etc ? You see yes - the government DOES have a responsibility - but so do individuals, so maybe we’re all blameworthy in some respect. As another poster has put - you get the government you vote for. Personally I believe there has been massive apathy in relation to politics for decades now - with the members of our entitled society voting for the party who’s rhetoric promises them the most. Perhaps until there is a shift away from the “whats in it for me”, towards a “what’s best for us all”, then that won’t change ? | |||
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"The results of excercise cygnus were never published so how can people say the government and nhs failed to act on its findings? Media phrases such as; One senior sources said results too terrifying to be made public....1 The word "could" appears too many times in the sensationalist media for a factual and accurate report." Why were they not published though? | |||
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"Ffs ! What is it with people ? All the “touch line managers “ who are experts. Why the hell as a country are we so pre-occupied with apportioning blame? Will there be a time for reflection and the taking of responsibility? Yes there will - but slap bang in the middle of it isn’t it ! No ONE person is responsible for the ills of the world - this is an unprecedented situation in probably the living memory of 99.9% recurring of the people on this site, and of a massive percentage of the population of the UK in general. Why can’t, at least for now, we just stop bloody finger pointing and try to bring some positivity. It’s bad enough that the media just focusses on the negatives (mainly to raise the correspondents own profile and feeling of self importance- not due to any fantastic drive for journalistic integrity and a “hunt for the truth”. How about, if only on this site , we try to focus o whatever positives there may be. Let’s try and stop being judgemental ( and how hypocritical is that - swingers brings judgemental when they’d get the right bump if they were “judged” for being swingers ) and take a second to think how lucky we are not to be in the unenviable position of having to try to tip-toe through the minefield that is this situation. (These opinions are exclusively the rambling thoughts of Fire - Smoke takes no responsibility for them !) Big love all I'm all for positivity but as a Scouser who has seen 30 years of cover up from Hillsborough, the fallout from Orgreave, Grenfell, the Russia Report, the Acuri Report and more - If we don't ask the hard questions now then they won't get asked. Officially there are currently 27,510 reasons to push those questions." I agree with asking, but just like Hillsborough, some of the sources for the questions (and 'information') can have agendas that no-one would have believed possible at the time. | |||
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"Another one who only reads headlines and does not understand how the stats are compiled. If you actually read what Boris said about letterboxes you would realise it was in support of muslim women being able to wear what they want. The UK were tracking and tracing from January until the number got too high for this to be sensible to do so. Do a bit of research rather then being a sheep and following the flock Some creative defence that..it was at best a massively insensitive borderline racist comment. And there was also that picannies quote. Not to mention a litany of sexist remarks. Stil The public gets what's the public wants . You haven’t read the actual article have you... Which article? ...
There are lots of them out there.It was a defence against liberalism but it was also extremely crass which was why he had to apologise.
What about the watermelons comment?"So you haven’t read the Telegraph article about the burkas... and yet your comment is “ ..it was at best a massively insensitive borderline racist comment.” How did you arrive at this comment if you haven’t read the whole article. | |||
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"Another one who only reads headlines and does not understand how the stats are compiled. If you actually read what Boris said about letterboxes you would realise it was in support of muslim women being able to wear what they want. The UK were tracking and tracing from January until the number got too high for this to be sensible to do so. Do a bit of research rather then being a sheep and following the flock Some creative defence that..it was at best a massively insensitive borderline racist comment. And there was also that picannies quote. Not to mention a litany of sexist remarks. Stil The public gets what's the public wants . You haven’t read the actual article have you... Which article? ...
There are lots of them out there.It was a defence against liberalism but it was also extremely crass which was why he had to apologise.
What about the watermelons comment?
So you haven’t read the Telegraph article about the burkas... and yet your comment is “ ..it was at best a massively insensitive borderline racist comment.”
How did you arrive at this comment if you haven’t read the whole article.
"I didn't realise the telegraph was the one true Oracle. I do apologise. | |||
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"The results of excercise cygnus were never published so how can people say the government and nhs failed to act on its findings? Media phrases such as; One senior sources said results too terrifying to be made public....1 The word "could" appears too many times in the sensationalist media for a factual and accurate report. Why were they not published though?" I dont know, but I'm sure someone can come up with a conspiracy theory as to why not. Perhaps they were worried that people may jump one a singular poor result area and conclude we were all doomed. No comment on my other points? | |||
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"Ffs ! What is it with people ? All the “touch line managers “ who are experts. Why the hell as a country are we so pre-occupied with apportioning blame? Will there be a time for reflection and the taking of responsibility? Yes there will - but slap bang in the middle of it isn’t it ! No ONE person is responsible for the ills of the world - this is an unprecedented situation in probably the living memory of 99.9% recurring of the people on this site, and of a massive percentage of the population of the UK in general. Why can’t, at least for now, we just stop bloody finger pointing and try to bring some positivity. It’s bad enough that the media just focusses on the negatives (mainly to raise the correspondents own profile and feeling of self importance- not due to any fantastic drive for journalistic integrity and a “hunt for the truth”. How about, if only on this site , we try to focus o whatever positives there may be. Let’s try and stop being judgemental ( and how hypocritical is that - swingers brings judgemental when they’d get the right bump if they were “judged” for being swingers ) and take a second to think how lucky we are not to be in the unenviable position of having to try to tip-toe through the minefield that is this situation. (These opinions are exclusively the rambling thoughts of Fire - Smoke takes no responsibility for them !) Big love all I'm all for positivity but as a Scouser who has seen 30 years of cover up from Hillsborough, the fallout from Orgreave, Grenfell, the Russia Report, the Acuri Report and more - If we don't ask the hard questions now then they won't get asked. Officially there are currently 27,510 reasons to push those questions. 27,000???!!! Another Boris lie That only includes hospital deaths Ignoring the care homes,what Boris is good at Real number is over 40,000 Unless it is a lie, that number DOES include outside of hospital deaths But I do feel it will not be accurate and there will still be a lag in the true figures. There were too many variables in why we couldn't have the total number in the first place, and I cannot imagine every variable has now been sorted. Hence, an estimate. We won't have the true figures until after the crisis. " There is no lag. Accurate figures have always been available, checked, counted and released as they always have been before all of this shit by the ONS. | |||
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"Another one who only reads headlines and does not understand how the stats are compiled. If you actually read what Boris said about letterboxes you would realise it was in support of muslim women being able to wear what they want. The UK were tracking and tracing from January until the number got too high for this to be sensible to do so. Do a bit of research rather then being a sheep and following the flock Some creative defence that..it was at best a massively insensitive borderline racist comment. And there was also that picannies quote. Not to mention a litany of sexist remarks. Stil The public gets what's the public wants . You haven’t read the actual article have you... Which article? ...
There are lots of them out there.It was a defence against liberalism but it was also extremely crass which was why he had to apologise.
What about the watermelons comment?
So you haven’t read the Telegraph article about the burkas... and yet your comment is “ ..it was at best a massively insensitive borderline racist comment.”
How did you arrive at this comment if you haven’t read the whole article.
I didn't realise the telegraph was the one true Oracle.
I do apologise."It’s the article written by Boris Johnson For The Telegraph!! So how did you arrive at your comment if you haven’t read the whole article? | |||
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"Grenfell was an absolute tragedy but it was the use of the cladding that caused it - you could have thrown resources at trying to tackle the fire and still lost the battle. And although not refuting your second point (or defending against it - purely being devils advocate ), unless people were there and witnessed it themselves , could it perhaps have been a good natured “get stuffed”? That Is I suppose one of the issues with reporting , it’s not first person , so therefore it is perhaps to be viewed as heresay , and can be influenced by the “slant” placed upon it by the person reporting it Yes, the battle at Grenfell was lost before it even started because of the cladding. But as recently as just before Christmas the enquiry appointed and was then forced to remove a woman from one of the companies responsible for approving the cladding. The corruption is ingrained in these people. They feel entitled to fuck the "little people" over for profit. That's why if we don't ask questions of the government now while it's live, you won't get answers in this generation. For clarity, the "get stuffed" was before Grenfell and during heated questions about the fire service cuts. But it's another demonstration of Johnson's problem with scrutiny. He's 2 months away from a year in the job but how many times has he been at PMQs since?" You want my honest opinion ? The majority of politicians couldn’t lie straight in bed. Power corrupts , at all levels. There has always been, and always will be, levels of hierarchy , irrespective of its a dictatorship, a Democracy, or sovereign rule. People will never like being questioned for their actions , and in the main will try to avoid taking responsibility - that starts in childhood when the lie “it wasn’t me” rolls easily off the tongue when questioned by our parents in an attempt to avoid being held accountable for our own actions. Nobody is perfect , and I 100% include myself in that category. Yes , I have an opinion on things , but I know from experience that unless you’ve actually been in the position ourselves, you can never really know what you’d do, or how you’d react. I totally respect your opinion , for me not to do so would be hypocritical. My opinions and thoughts are my own , and in a large part, as stated , are being devils advocate. Stay safe all | |||
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"I think you are wasting your time here as most seem to support him. But you are correct. Unfortunately it seems in the UK we have the pm we deserve , we should look in the mirror as to why we have chosen him to lead us. He lies, he cheats , he’s incompetent, he a racist, self interest and arrogance drive his actions and decisions. Racist? How do you conclude that? Well he did describe POCs as "grinning piccaninies with watermelon smiles" and Muslim women as looking like "bank robbers and letter boxes" so that does sound a bit racist tbh..." Anybody wearing that outfit would look the same, to be fair | |||
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"The results of excercise cygnus were never published so how can people say the government and nhs failed to act on its findings? Media phrases such as; One senior sources said results too terrifying to be made public....1 The word "could" appears too many times in the sensationalist media for a factual and accurate report. Why were they not published though? I dont know, but I'm sure someone can come up with a conspiracy theory as to why not. Perhaps they were worried that people may jump one a singular poor result area and conclude we were all doomed. No comment on my other points?" When reports are not published or kicked into the long grass there is normally a reason. The bit about sensationalising?thats what the tabloid media in particular do..it sells papers. | |||
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"Ffs ! What is it with people ? All the “touch line managers “ who are experts. Why the hell as a country are we so pre-occupied with apportioning blame? Will there be a time for reflection and the taking of responsibility? Yes there will - but slap bang in the middle of it isn’t it ! No ONE person is responsible for the ills of the world - this is an unprecedented situation in probably the living memory of 99.9% recurring of the people on this site, and of a massive percentage of the population of the UK in general. Why can’t, at least for now, we just stop bloody finger pointing and try to bring some positivity. It’s bad enough that the media just focusses on the negatives (mainly to raise the correspondents own profile and feeling of self importance- not due to any fantastic drive for journalistic integrity and a “hunt for the truth”. How about, if only on this site , we try to focus o whatever positives there may be. Let’s try and stop being judgemental ( and how hypocritical is that - swingers brings judgemental when they’d get the right bump if they were “judged” for being swingers ) and take a second to think how lucky we are not to be in the unenviable position of having to try to tip-toe through the minefield that is this situation. (These opinions are exclusively the rambling thoughts of Fire - Smoke takes no responsibility for them !) Big love all Trouble is, nobody takes the blame. Look at his record, has passed the buck his whole career. I suppose, if you haven't lost somebody close to you, none of this will matter. I haven't, but if I had, I'd want answers too. Just him that hasn’t taken the blame ? No other politicians who haven’t accepted respond for their decisions or actions ? Yes let’s have answers about any mistakes COLLECTIVELY made in relation to this situation. But , here’s another question for people to ponder regarding taking blame for people dying. How many of us may have had the virus without knowing before the awareness was heightened. How many of us may have then passed the virus onto somebody else , who, although they suffered no symptoms, then transmitted it further. Now somewhere down the line , somebody dies fromCOVID associated complications...... And before anybody takes a pop - have a look in the mirror and ask if you’ve acted 109% responsibly in relation to social distancing etc ? You see yes - the government DOES have a responsibility - but so do individuals, so maybe we’re all blameworthy in some respect. As another poster has put - you get the government you vote for. Personally I believe there has been massive apathy in relation to politics for decades now - with the members of our entitled society voting for the party who’s rhetoric promises them the most. Perhaps until there is a shift away from the “whats in it for me”, towards a “what’s best for us all”, then that won’t change ? " The one thing that I think utterly highlights his whole approach to this early on....shaking hands with Covid patients. He was not concerned about his own health yet alone the nation's. That attitude permeated the government's early response to this crisis, and, probably cost a lot of lives. Now, he may do better going forward but yesterday's example with the testing figures being manipulated just screamed 'spin' again. I used to like Boris, I fell for the charm, the crazy hair and the funny quips in Latin. Then I started looking at his actual resume and realised it's littered with failure and and downright lies. I'm still waiting for the crowd to see that the emperor is stark bollock naked and has no robes. One day maybe, but I doubt it. He could literally push his naked buttocks in people's faces, fart and they would still swear he was wearing the finest silk and smelt of roses. | |||
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"The UK has the second highest death toll in Europe Eight in the world In spite of a great health system A long litany of his failures has led to this Wasted precious time talking herd immunity while rest of world was locking down,even in lockdown his mixed messages "I will continue to shake hands",way to late in tracking and tracing cases,not,refused 3 tes to buy PPE gear with eu, Cheltenham fiasco,care home failures,and so it continues The numbers of deaths don't lie So what would you have done ? " Never given the Toeirs power. Not that the red tories were any better, shame England has such poor politicians. | |||
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"Ffs ! What is it with people ? All the “touch line managers “ who are experts. Why the hell as a country are we so pre-occupied with apportioning blame? Will there be a time for reflection and the taking of responsibility? Yes there will - but slap bang in the middle of it isn’t it ! No ONE person is responsible for the ills of the world - this is an unprecedented situation in probably the living memory of 99.9% recurring of the people on this site, and of a massive percentage of the population of the UK in general. Why can’t, at least for now, we just stop bloody finger pointing and try to bring some positivity. It’s bad enough that the media just focusses on the negatives (mainly to raise the correspondents own profile and feeling of self importance- not due to any fantastic drive for journalistic integrity and a “hunt for the truth”. How about, if only on this site , we try to focus o whatever positives there may be. Let’s try and stop being judgemental ( and how hypocritical is that - swingers brings judgemental when they’d get the right bump if they were “judged” for being swingers ) and take a second to think how lucky we are not to be in the unenviable position of having to try to tip-toe through the minefield that is this situation. (These opinions are exclusively the rambling thoughts of Fire - Smoke takes no responsibility for them !) Big love all Trouble is, nobody takes the blame. Look at his record, has passed the buck his whole career. I suppose, if you haven't lost somebody close to you, none of this will matter. I haven't, but if I had, I'd want answers too. Just him that hasn’t taken the blame ? No other politicians who haven’t accepted respond for their decisions or actions ? Yes let’s have answers about any mistakes COLLECTIVELY made in relation to this situation. But , here’s another question for people to ponder regarding taking blame for people dying. How many of us may have had the virus without knowing before the awareness was heightened. How many of us may have then passed the virus onto somebody else , who, although they suffered no symptoms, then transmitted it further. Now somewhere down the line , somebody dies fromCOVID associated complications...... And before anybody takes a pop - have a look in the mirror and ask if you’ve acted 109% responsibly in relation to social distancing etc ? You see yes - the government DOES have a responsibility - but so do individuals, so maybe we’re all blameworthy in some respect. As another poster has put - you get the government you vote for. Personally I believe there has been massive apathy in relation to politics for decades now - with the members of our entitled society voting for the party who’s rhetoric promises them the most. Perhaps until there is a shift away from the “whats in it for me”, towards a “what’s best for us all”, then that won’t change ? The one thing that I think utterly highlights his whole approach to this early on....shaking hands with Covid patients. He was not concerned about his own health yet alone the nation's. That attitude permeated the government's early response to this crisis, and, probably cost a lot of lives. Now, he may do better going forward but yesterday's example with the testing figures being manipulated just screamed 'spin' again. I used to like Boris, I fell for the charm, the crazy hair and the funny quips in Latin. Then I started looking at his actual resume and realised it's littered with failure and and downright lies. I'm still waiting for the crowd to see that the emperor is stark bollock naked and has no robes. One day maybe, but I doubt it. He could literally push his naked buttocks in people's faces, fart and they would still swear he was wearing the finest silk and smelt of roses." I’ve got to admit I think the man is at best a total buffoon. Problem is - there was a “rock and a hard place” situation at the election - neither party or their leaderships evoked any sort of confidence. I think the electorate chose to pick what was perceived as the lesser of the two evils. | |||
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"Another one who only reads headlines and does not understand how the stats are compiled. If you actually read what Boris said about letterboxes you would realise it was in support of muslim women being able to wear what they want. The UK were tracking and tracing from January until the number got too high for this to be sensible to do so. Do a bit of research rather then being a sheep and following the flock Some creative defence that..it was at best a massively insensitive borderline racist comment. And there was also that picannies quote. Not to mention a litany of sexist remarks. Stil The public gets what's the public wants . You haven’t read the actual article have you... Which article? ...
There are lots of them out there.It was a defence against liberalism but it was also extremely crass which was why he had to apologise.
What about the watermelons comment?
So you haven’t read the Telegraph article about the burkas... and yet your comment is “ ..it was at best a massively insensitive borderline racist comment.”
How did you arrive at this comment if you haven’t read the whole article.
I didn't realise the telegraph was the one true Oracle.
I do apologise.
It’s the article written by Boris Johnson For The Telegraph!!
So how did you arrive at your comment if you haven’t read the whole article?
"Because I cant actually find it? So I've read about 12 sources about the article..some actually from the telegraph and came to the conclusion that it was a crass thing to say..hence the apology. Which let's be honest he isnt reknowned for. So those watermelons.. | |||
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"Just to be clear As of 5 pm on 28 April the UK death toll FOR HOSPITALS ONLY is 26097 It does not include the home deaths or more importantly the care home deaths from the over 15000 homes Boris is more focused on lying about death toll and spinning numbers The probable number is hard to tell such is the Boris spin Probably 40,000 A lot more than the 27,000 lies anyway " 40.000 Fucking hell | |||
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"Just to be clear As of 5 pm on 28 April the UK death toll FOR HOSPITALS ONLY is 26097 It does not include the home deaths or more importantly the care home deaths from the over 15000 homes Boris is more focused on lying about death toll and spinning numbers The probable number is hard to tell such is the Boris spin Probably 40,000 A lot more than the 27,000 lies anyway " No Just to be absolutely clear: Number of cases and deaths As of 9am on 1 May, there have been 1,023,824 tests, with 122,347 tests on 30 April. 762,279 people have been tested, of whom 177,454 have tested positive. As of 5pm on 30 April, of those who tested positive for coronavirus in the UK, 27,510 have died. This new figure includes deaths in all settings, not just in hospitals. The equivalent figure under the old measure would have been 23,229. https://www.gov.uk/guidance/coronavirus-covid-19-information-for-the-public | |||
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"Just to be clear As of 5 pm on 28 April the UK death toll FOR HOSPITALS ONLY is 26097 It does not include the home deaths or more importantly the care home deaths from the over 15000 homes Boris is more focused on lying about death toll and spinning numbers The probable number is hard to tell such is the Boris spin Probably 40,000 A lot more than the 27,000 lies anyway " Have to agree Boris is a coward and a liar. But he preaches to the converted and can say anything he wants but people lap it up. In 12 months time when we can make an actual comparison of death rates between countries based on increased deaths above usual average deaths per year, we will see just how shockingly badly we have done. We where to slow, way to slow and that comes from having a leader who is just as dumb as he comes across, he is nothing more than a mouth piece, a complete puppet and muppet. Hid when shit got tough then emerged to tell us we are coming through an alpine tunnel (what an obnoxious middle class comment). The man in my eyes has blood on his hands. I hope there is a huge outcry for a public inquest, because his bluster has cost so many people their lives and caused so so so much heartache and grief. What he and lots of people fail to see is if you lock down late (which we did) you have to lock down for longer because there is more virus already in the general population. | |||
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"Ffs ! What is it with people ? All the “touch line managers “ who are experts. Why the hell as a country are we so pre-occupied with apportioning blame? Will there be a time for reflection and the taking of responsibility? Yes there will - but slap bang in the middle of it isn’t it ! No ONE person is responsible for the ills of the world - this is an unprecedented situation in probably the living memory of 99.9% recurring of the people on this site, and of a massive percentage of the population of the UK in general. Why can’t, at least for now, we just stop bloody finger pointing and try to bring some positivity. It’s bad enough that the media just focusses on the negatives (mainly to raise the correspondents own profile and feeling of self importance- not due to any fantastic drive for journalistic integrity and a “hunt for the truth”. How about, if only on this site , we try to focus o whatever positives there may be. Let’s try and stop being judgemental ( and how hypocritical is that - swingers brings judgemental when they’d get the right bump if they were “judged” for being swingers ) and take a second to think how lucky we are not to be in the unenviable position of having to try to tip-toe through the minefield that is this situation. (These opinions are exclusively the rambling thoughts of Fire - Smoke takes no responsibility for them !) Big love all Trouble is, nobody takes the blame. Look at his record, has passed the buck his whole career. I suppose, if you haven't lost somebody close to you, none of this will matter. I haven't, but if I had, I'd want answers too. Just him that hasn’t taken the blame ? No other politicians who haven’t accepted respond for their decisions or actions ? Yes let’s have answers about any mistakes COLLECTIVELY made in relation to this situation. But , here’s another question for people to ponder regarding taking blame for people dying. How many of us may have had the virus without knowing before the awareness was heightened. How many of us may have then passed the virus onto somebody else , who, although they suffered no symptoms, then transmitted it further. Now somewhere down the line , somebody dies fromCOVID associated complications...... And before anybody takes a pop - have a look in the mirror and ask if you’ve acted 109% responsibly in relation to social distancing etc ? You see yes - the government DOES have a responsibility - but so do individuals, so maybe we’re all blameworthy in some respect. As another poster has put - you get the government you vote for. Personally I believe there has been massive apathy in relation to politics for decades now - with the members of our entitled society voting for the party who’s rhetoric promises them the most. Perhaps until there is a shift away from the “whats in it for me”, towards a “what’s best for us all”, then that won’t change ? The one thing that I think utterly highlights his whole approach to this early on....shaking hands with Covid patients. He was not concerned about his own health yet alone the nation's. That attitude permeated the government's early response to this crisis, and, probably cost a lot of lives. Now, he may do better going forward but yesterday's example with the testing figures being manipulated just screamed 'spin' again. I used to like Boris, I fell for the charm, the crazy hair and the funny quips in Latin. Then I started looking at his actual resume and realised it's littered with failure and and downright lies. I'm still waiting for the crowd to see that the emperor is stark bollock naked and has no robes. One day maybe, but I doubt it. He could literally push his naked buttocks in people's faces, fart and they would still swear he was wearing the finest silk and smelt of roses. I’ve got to admit I think the man is at best a total buffoon. Problem is - there was a “rock and a hard place” situation at the election - neither party or their leaderships evoked any sort of confidence. I think the electorate chose to pick what was perceived as the lesser of the two evils. " Tories are never the lesser of two evil, just better at lying and with a main stream media propoganda machine backing them | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Just to be clear As of 5 pm on 28 April the UK death toll FOR HOSPITALS ONLY is 26097 It does not include the home deaths or more importantly the care home deaths from the over 15000 homes Boris is more focused on lying about death toll and spinning numbers The probable number is hard to tell such is the Boris spin Probably 40,000 A lot more than the 27,000 lies anyway " Wrong As of 5pm 30th April deaths reported in hospitals only was 20,483. This is direct from the NHS and not via government or tabloid press. Undoubtedly sadly lots more deaths in care homes and in wider public. The total deaths reported now includes those from all settings hence the recent jump. If only all countries were as honest and accurate. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Ffs ! What is it with people ? All the “touch line managers “ who are experts. Why the hell as a country are we so pre-occupied with apportioning blame? Will there be a time for reflection and the taking of responsibility? Yes there will - but slap bang in the middle of it isn’t it ! No ONE person is responsible for the ills of the world - this is an unprecedented situation in probably the living memory of 99.9% recurring of the people on this site, and of a massive percentage of the population of the UK in general. Why can’t, at least for now, we just stop bloody finger pointing and try to bring some positivity. It’s bad enough that the media just focusses on the negatives (mainly to raise the correspondents own profile and feeling of self importance- not due to any fantastic drive for journalistic integrity and a “hunt for the truth”. How about, if only on this site , we try to focus o whatever positives there may be. Let’s try and stop being judgemental ( and how hypocritical is that - swingers brings judgemental when they’d get the right bump if they were “judged” for being swingers ) and take a second to think how lucky we are not to be in the unenviable position of having to try to tip-toe through the minefield that is this situation. (These opinions are exclusively the rambling thoughts of Fire - Smoke takes no responsibility for them !) Big love all Trouble is, nobody takes the blame. Look at his record, has passed the buck his whole career. I suppose, if you haven't lost somebody close to you, none of this will matter. I haven't, but if I had, I'd want answers too. Just him that hasn’t taken the blame ? No other politicians who haven’t accepted respond for their decisions or actions ? Yes let’s have answers about any mistakes COLLECTIVELY made in relation to this situation. But , here’s another question for people to ponder regarding taking blame for people dying. How many of us may have had the virus without knowing before the awareness was heightened. How many of us may have then passed the virus onto somebody else , who, although they suffered no symptoms, then transmitted it further. Now somewhere down the line , somebody dies fromCOVID associated complications...... And before anybody takes a pop - have a look in the mirror and ask if you’ve acted 109% responsibly in relation to social distancing etc ? You see yes - the government DOES have a responsibility - but so do individuals, so maybe we’re all blameworthy in some respect. As another poster has put - you get the government you vote for. Personally I believe there has been massive apathy in relation to politics for decades now - with the members of our entitled society voting for the party who’s rhetoric promises them the most. Perhaps until there is a shift away from the “whats in it for me”, towards a “what’s best for us all”, then that won’t change ? The one thing that I think utterly highlights his whole approach to this early on....shaking hands with Covid patients. He was not concerned about his own health yet alone the nation's. That attitude permeated the government's early response to this crisis, and, probably cost a lot of lives. Now, he may do better going forward but yesterday's example with the testing figures being manipulated just screamed 'spin' again. I used to like Boris, I fell for the charm, the crazy hair and the funny quips in Latin. Then I started looking at his actual resume and realised it's littered with failure and and downright lies. I'm still waiting for the crowd to see that the emperor is stark bollock naked and has no robes. One day maybe, but I doubt it. He could literally push his naked buttocks in people's faces, fart and they would still swear he was wearing the finest silk and smelt of roses. I’ve got to admit I think the man is at best a total buffoon. Problem is - there was a “rock and a hard place” situation at the election - neither party or their leaderships evoked any sort of confidence. I think the electorate chose to pick what was perceived as the lesser of the two evils. " I hear ya. I held my nose and voted Labour. I used to like Corbyn, but he just wasn't equipped for leadership, woeful at PMQ's. Difference is, I can admit I was wrong. People have invested so much in Boris that they can't do the same, even when it's blatantly obvious he is useless, so they double down in their admiration. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Ffs ! What is it with people ? All the “touch line managers “ who are experts. Why the hell as a country are we so pre-occupied with apportioning blame? Will there be a time for reflection and the taking of responsibility? Yes there will - but slap bang in the middle of it isn’t it ! No ONE person is responsible for the ills of the world - this is an unprecedented situation in probably the living memory of 99.9% recurring of the people on this site, and of a massive percentage of the population of the UK in general. Why can’t, at least for now, we just stop bloody finger pointing and try to bring some positivity. It’s bad enough that the media just focusses on the negatives (mainly to raise the correspondents own profile and feeling of self importance- not due to any fantastic drive for journalistic integrity and a “hunt for the truth”. How about, if only on this site , we try to focus o whatever positives there may be. Let’s try and stop being judgemental ( and how hypocritical is that - swingers brings judgemental when they’d get the right bump if they were “judged” for being swingers ) and take a second to think how lucky we are not to be in the unenviable position of having to try to tip-toe through the minefield that is this situation. (These opinions are exclusively the rambling thoughts of Fire - Smoke takes no responsibility for them !) Big love all Trouble is, nobody takes the blame. Look at his record, has passed the buck his whole career. I suppose, if you haven't lost somebody close to you, none of this will matter. I haven't, but if I had, I'd want answers too. Just him that hasn’t taken the blame ? No other politicians who haven’t accepted respond for their decisions or actions ? Yes let’s have answers about any mistakes COLLECTIVELY made in relation to this situation. But , here’s another question for people to ponder regarding taking blame for people dying. How many of us may have had the virus without knowing before the awareness was heightened. How many of us may have then passed the virus onto somebody else , who, although they suffered no symptoms, then transmitted it further. Now somewhere down the line , somebody dies fromCOVID associated complications...... And before anybody takes a pop - have a look in the mirror and ask if you’ve acted 109% responsibly in relation to social distancing etc ? You see yes - the government DOES have a responsibility - but so do individuals, so maybe we’re all blameworthy in some respect. As another poster has put - you get the government you vote for. Personally I believe there has been massive apathy in relation to politics for decades now - with the members of our entitled society voting for the party who’s rhetoric promises them the most. Perhaps until there is a shift away from the “whats in it for me”, towards a “what’s best for us all”, then that won’t change ? The one thing that I think utterly highlights his whole approach to this early on....shaking hands with Covid patients. He was not concerned about his own health yet alone the nation's. That attitude permeated the government's early response to this crisis, and, probably cost a lot of lives. Now, he may do better going forward but yesterday's example with the testing figures being manipulated just screamed 'spin' again. I used to like Boris, I fell for the charm, the crazy hair and the funny quips in Latin. Then I started looking at his actual resume and realised it's littered with failure and and downright lies. I'm still waiting for the crowd to see that the emperor is stark bollock naked and has no robes. One day maybe, but I doubt it. He could literally push his naked buttocks in people's faces, fart and they would still swear he was wearing the finest silk and smelt of roses. I’ve got to admit I think the man is at best a total buffoon. Problem is - there was a “rock and a hard place” situation at the election - neither party or their leaderships evoked any sort of confidence. I think the electorate chose to pick what was perceived as the lesser of the two evils. Tories are never the lesser of two evil, just better at lying and with a main stream media propoganda machine backing them" | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Ffs ! What is it with people ? All the “touch line managers “ who are experts. Why the hell as a country are we so pre-occupied with apportioning blame? Will there be a time for reflection and the taking of responsibility? Yes there will - but slap bang in the middle of it isn’t it ! No ONE person is responsible for the ills of the world - this is an unprecedented situation in probably the living memory of 99.9% recurring of the people on this site, and of a massive percentage of the population of the UK in general. Why can’t, at least for now, we just stop bloody finger pointing and try to bring some positivity. It’s bad enough that the media just focusses on the negatives (mainly to raise the correspondents own profile and feeling of self importance- not due to any fantastic drive for journalistic integrity and a “hunt for the truth”. How about, if only on this site , we try to focus o whatever positives there may be. Let’s try and stop being judgemental ( and how hypocritical is that - swingers brings judgemental when they’d get the right bump if they were “judged” for being swingers ) and take a second to think how lucky we are not to be in the unenviable position of having to try to tip-toe through the minefield that is this situation. (These opinions are exclusively the rambling thoughts of Fire - Smoke takes no responsibility for them !) Big love all I'm all for positivity but as a Scouser who has seen 30 years of cover up from Hillsborough, the fallout from Orgreave, Grenfell, the Russia Report, the Acuri Report and more - If we don't ask the hard questions now then they won't get asked. Officially there are currently 27,510 reasons to push those questions. 27,000???!!! Another Boris lie That only includes hospital deaths Ignoring the care homes,what Boris is good at Real number is over 40,000 Unless it is a lie, that number DOES include outside of hospital deaths But I do feel it will not be accurate and there will still be a lag in the true figures. There were too many variables in why we couldn't have the total number in the first place, and I cannot imagine every variable has now been sorted. Hence, an estimate. We won't have the true figures until after the crisis. There is no lag. Accurate figures have always been available, checked, counted and released as they always have been before all of this shit by the ONS. " Source please | |||
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"The UK has the second highest death toll in Europe Eight in the world In spite of a great health system A long litany of his failures has led to this Wasted precious time talking herd immunity while rest of world was locking down,even in lockdown his mixed messages "I will continue to shake hands",way to late in tracking and tracing cases,not,refused 3 tes to buy PPE gear with eu, Cheltenham fiasco,care home failures,and so it continues The numbers of deaths don't lie HINDSIGHT | meaning in the Cambridge English Dictionary · the ability to understand an event or situation only after it has happened: With (the benefit/wisdom of) hindsight ... Tis a wonderful thing!
Not hindsight at all
I'm just looking at what other government leaders have done and are doing
Leaders of countries that are managing this a lot better than boris
A lot of them didn't prioritise crowdfunding bongs for Big Ben in January, take half of February off and then work on a speech saying that because we're British we don't have to shut down like the rest of the world (Greenwich brexit speech if you're not sure).
How many PMQs has he actually attended? I wasn't a fan of Corbyn's leadership style but he was bang on the money when he called him a part-time PM.
When he does attend he says UK are past the peak
He's bettwr for the UK if he stays in fucking bed" | |||
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"Ffs ! What is it with people ? All the “touch line managers “ who are experts. Why the hell as a country are we so pre-occupied with apportioning blame? Will there be a time for reflection and the taking of responsibility? Yes there will - but slap bang in the middle of it isn’t it ! No ONE person is responsible for the ills of the world - this is an unprecedented situation in probably the living memory of 99.9% recurring of the people on this site, and of a massive percentage of the population of the UK in general. Why can’t, at least for now, we just stop bloody finger pointing and try to bring some positivity. It’s bad enough that the media just focusses on the negatives (mainly to raise the correspondents own profile and feeling of self importance- not due to any fantastic drive for journalistic integrity and a “hunt for the truth”. How about, if only on this site , we try to focus o whatever positives there may be. Let’s try and stop being judgemental ( and how hypocritical is that - swingers brings judgemental when they’d get the right bump if they were “judged” for being swingers ) and take a second to think how lucky we are not to be in the unenviable position of having to try to tip-toe through the minefield that is this situation. (These opinions are exclusively the rambling thoughts of Fire - Smoke takes no responsibility for them !) Big love all I'm all for positivity but as a Scouser who has seen 30 years of cover up from Hillsborough, the fallout from Orgreave, Grenfell, the Russia Report, the Acuri Report and more - If we don't ask the hard questions now then they won't get asked. Officially there are currently 27,510 reasons to push those questions. 27,000???!!! Another Boris lie That only includes hospital deaths Ignoring the care homes,what Boris is good at Real number is over 40,000 Unless it is a lie, that number DOES include outside of hospital deaths But I do feel it will not be accurate and there will still be a lag in the true figures. There were too many variables in why we couldn't have the total number in the first place, and I cannot imagine every variable has now been sorted. Hence, an estimate. We won't have the true figures until after the crisis. There is no lag. Accurate figures have always been available, checked, counted and released as they always have been before all of this shit by the ONS. Source please" https://www.gov.uk/guidance/coronavirus-covid-19-information-for-the-public | |||
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"Grenfell was an absolute tragedy but it was the use of the cladding that caused it - you could have thrown resources at trying to tackle the fire and still lost the battle. And although not refuting your second point (or defending against it - purely being devils advocate ), unless people were there and witnessed it themselves , could it perhaps have been a good natured “get stuffed”? That Is I suppose one of the issues with reporting , it’s not first person , so therefore it is perhaps to be viewed as heresay , and can be influenced by the “slant” placed upon it by the person reporting it Yes, the battle at Grenfell was lost before it even started because of the cladding. But as recently as just before Christmas the enquiry appointed and was then forced to remove a woman from one of the companies responsible for approving the cladding. The corruption is ingrained in these people. They feel entitled to fuck the "little people" over for profit. That's why if we don't ask questions of the government now while it's live, you won't get answers in this generation. For clarity, the "get stuffed" was before Grenfell and during heated questions about the fire service cuts. But it's another demonstration of Johnson's problem with scrutiny. He's 2 months away from a year in the job but how many times has he been at PMQs since? You want my honest opinion ? The majority of politicians couldn’t lie straight in bed. Power corrupts , at all levels. There has always been, and always will be, levels of hierarchy , irrespective of its a dictatorship, a Democracy, or sovereign rule. People will never like being questioned for their actions , and in the main will try to avoid taking responsibility - that starts in childhood when the lie “it wasn’t me” rolls easily off the tongue when questioned by our parents in an attempt to avoid being held accountable for our own actions. " Or inactions. I'm facing this at present with professionals contradicting their own documents and not following policies and protocols. You really couldn't make it up that people dare go against evidence, as are the investigative officers (with that same evidence to hand). Transparency my arse. Learning from their mistakes my fucking arse! | |||
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"The UK has the second highest death toll in Europe Eight in the world In spite of a great health system A long litany of his failures has led to this Wasted precious time talking herd immunity while rest of world was locking down,even in lockdown his mixed messages "I will continue to shake hands",way to late in tracking and tracing cases,not,refused 3 tes to buy PPE gear with eu, Cheltenham fiasco,care home failures,and so it continues The numbers of deaths don't lie So what would you have done ? Never given the Toeirs power. Not that the red tories were any better, shame England has such poor politicians." Not given the tories power? Like it was a personal choice. We live in a democratic society and they won the election. How can so few people see that turning this current nightmare into a political slanging match only creates division. Covid-19 doesn't discriminate based on political allegiance. We are all in the same boat so let's just bloody get on with it. Mistakes have been made but mistakes would have been made by anyone as this is unprecedented. | |||
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"Another one who only reads headlines and does not understand how the stats are compiled. If you actually read what Boris said about letterboxes you would realise it was in support of muslim women being able to wear what they want. The UK were tracking and tracing from January until the number got too high for this to be sensible to do so. Do a bit of research rather then being a sheep and following the flock" Are you saying the uk have done a good job? | |||
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"Ffs ! What is it with people ? All the “touch line managers “ who are experts. Why the hell as a country are we so pre-occupied with apportioning blame? Will there be a time for reflection and the taking of responsibility? Yes there will - but slap bang in the middle of it isn’t it ! No ONE person is responsible for the ills of the world - this is an unprecedented situation in probably the living memory of 99.9% recurring of the people on this site, and of a massive percentage of the population of the UK in general. Why can’t, at least for now, we just stop bloody finger pointing and try to bring some positivity. It’s bad enough that the media just focusses on the negatives (mainly to raise the correspondents own profile and feeling of self importance- not due to any fantastic drive for journalistic integrity and a “hunt for the truth”. How about, if only on this site , we try to focus o whatever positives there may be. Let’s try and stop being judgemental ( and how hypocritical is that - swingers brings judgemental when they’d get the right bump if they were “judged” for being swingers ) and take a second to think how lucky we are not to be in the unenviable position of having to try to tip-toe through the minefield that is this situation. (These opinions are exclusively the rambling thoughts of Fire - Smoke takes no responsibility for them !) Big love all Trouble is, nobody takes the blame. Look at his record, has passed the buck his whole career. I suppose, if you haven't lost somebody close to you, none of this will matter. I haven't, but if I had, I'd want answers too. Just him that hasn’t taken the blame ? No other politicians who haven’t accepted respond for their decisions or actions ? Yes let’s have answers about any mistakes COLLECTIVELY made in relation to this situation. But , here’s another question for people to ponder regarding taking blame for people dying. How many of us may have had the virus without knowing before the awareness was heightened. How many of us may have then passed the virus onto somebody else , who, although they suffered no symptoms, then transmitted it further. Now somewhere down the line , somebody dies fromCOVID associated complications...... And before anybody takes a pop - have a look in the mirror and ask if you’ve acted 109% responsibly in relation to social distancing etc ? You see yes - the government DOES have a responsibility - but so do individuals, so maybe we’re all blameworthy in some respect. As another poster has put - you get the government you vote for. Personally I believe there has been massive apathy in relation to politics for decades now - with the members of our entitled society voting for the party who’s rhetoric promises them the most. Perhaps until there is a shift away from the “whats in it for me”, towards a “what’s best for us all”, then that won’t change ? The one thing that I think utterly highlights his whole approach to this early on....shaking hands with Covid patients. He was not concerned about his own health yet alone the nation's. That attitude permeated the government's early response to this crisis, and, probably cost a lot of lives. Now, he may do better going forward but yesterday's example with the testing figures being manipulated just screamed 'spin' again. I used to like Boris, I fell for the charm, the crazy hair and the funny quips in Latin. Then I started looking at his actual resume and realised it's littered with failure and and downright lies. I'm still waiting for the crowd to see that the emperor is stark bollock naked and has no robes. One day maybe, but I doubt it. He could literally push his naked buttocks in people's faces, fart and they would still swear he was wearing the finest silk and smelt of roses. I’ve got to admit I think the man is at best a total buffoon. Problem is - there was a “rock and a hard place” situation at the election - neither party or their leaderships evoked any sort of confidence. I think the electorate chose to pick what was perceived as the lesser of the two evils. "
Mind you can you imagine the Hunt would get - how long was he the health secretary? He'd be deserving of the criticisms against the historical govt for the austerity re health funding. I bet he's a wee bit relieved he isn't PM. And a lot relieved he didn't need hospitalising with cv19. | |||
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"The UK has the second highest death toll in Europe Eight in the world In spite of a great health system A long litany of his failures has led to this Wasted precious time talking herd immunity while rest of world was locking down,even in lockdown his mixed messages "I will continue to shake hands",way to late in tracking and tracing cases,not,refused 3 tes to buy PPE gear with eu, Cheltenham fiasco,care home failures,and so it continues The numbers of deaths don't lie So what would you have done ? Never given the Toeirs power. Not that the red tories were any better, shame England has such poor politicians. Not given the tories power? Like it was a personal choice. We live in a democratic society and they won the election. How can so few people see that turning this current nightmare into a political slanging match only creates division. Covid-19 doesn't discriminate based on political allegiance. We are all in the same boat so let's just bloody get on with it. Mistakes have been made but mistakes would have been made by anyone as this is unprecedented." But saying 'we are all in it together' just gives those, who make those decisions, a free pass to make more. I for one, don't want answers to score some kind of point, I want scrutiny so more mistakes are not made. If what you have done hasn't worked, it's stupid carrying on the same. You change and learn for a better outcome | |||
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"Just to be clear As of 5 pm on 28 April the UK death toll FOR HOSPITALS ONLY is 26097 It does not include the home deaths or more importantly the care home deaths from the over 15000 homes Boris is more focused on lying about death toll and spinning numbers The probable number is hard to tell such is the Boris spin Probably 40,000 A lot more than the 27,000 lies anyway No Just to be absolutely clear: Number of cases and deaths As of 9am on 1 May, there have been 1,023,824 tests, with 122,347 tests on 30 April. 762,279 people have been tested, of whom 177,454 have tested positive. As of 5pm on 30 April, of those who tested positive for coronavirus in the UK, 27,510 have died. This new figure includes deaths in all settings, not just in hospitals. The equivalent figure under the old measure would have been 23,229. https://www.gov.uk/guidance/coronavirus-covid-19-information-for-the-public " Hmmm debatable. Why? Cos didn't ONS quote outside deaths to be 6,000+ (on 30th April briefing? My point stands. There's no way the govt has revised the way different settings register deaths... I'll backtrack if someone can source proof, such as all software systems made compatible with the readers such as what trusts have. GPS do not use the same software systems as hospital trusts... Something I have experienced in training. GP surgeries have different systems to each other. | |||
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Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Just to be clear As of 5 pm on 28 April the UK death toll FOR HOSPITALS ONLY is 26097 It does not include the home deaths or more importantly the care home deaths from the over 15000 homes Boris is more focused on lying about death toll and spinning numbers The probable number is hard to tell such is the Boris spin Probably 40,000 A lot more than the 27,000 lies anyway No Just to be absolutely clear: Number of cases and deaths As of 9am on 1 May, there have been 1,023,824 tests, with 122,347 tests on 30 April. 762,279 people have been tested, of whom 177,454 have tested positive. As of 5pm on 30 April, of those who tested positive for coronavirus in the UK, 27,510 have died. This new figure includes deaths in all settings, not just in hospitals. The equivalent figure under the old measure would have been 23,229. https://www.gov.uk/guidance/coronavirus-covid-19-information-for-the-public Hmmm debatable. Why? Cos didn't ONS quote outside deaths to be 6,000+ (on 30th April briefing? My point stands. There's no way the govt has revised the way different settings register deaths... I'll backtrack if someone can source proof, such as all software systems made compatible with the readers such as what trusts have. GPS do not use the same software systems as hospital trusts... Something I have experienced in training. GP surgeries have different systems to each other. " They did with the testing figures though. Just so disappointing, it marred a genuinely good go at hitting the target | |||
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"Ffs ! What is it with people ? All the “touch line managers “ who are experts. Why the hell as a country are we so pre-occupied with apportioning blame? Will there be a time for reflection and the taking of responsibility? Yes there will - but slap bang in the middle of it isn’t it ! No ONE person is responsible for the ills of the world - this is an unprecedented situation in probably the living memory of 99.9% recurring of the people on this site, and of a massive percentage of the population of the UK in general. Why can’t, at least for now, we just stop bloody finger pointing and try to bring some positivity. It’s bad enough that the media just focusses on the negatives (mainly to raise the correspondents own profile and feeling of self importance- not due to any fantastic drive for journalistic integrity and a “hunt for the truth”. How about, if only on this site , we try to focus o whatever positives there may be. Let’s try and stop being judgemental ( and how hypocritical is that - swingers brings judgemental when they’d get the right bump if they were “judged” for being swingers ) and take a second to think how lucky we are not to be in the unenviable position of having to try to tip-toe through the minefield that is this situation. (These opinions are exclusively the rambling thoughts of Fire - Smoke takes no responsibility for them !) Big love all Trouble is, nobody takes the blame. Look at his record, has passed the buck his whole career. I suppose, if you haven't lost somebody close to you, none of this will matter. I haven't, but if I had, I'd want answers too. Just him that hasn’t taken the blame ? No other politicians who haven’t accepted respond for their decisions or actions ? Yes let’s have answers about any mistakes COLLECTIVELY made in relation to this situation. But , here’s another question for people to ponder regarding taking blame for people dying. How many of us may have had the virus without knowing before the awareness was heightened. How many of us may have then passed the virus onto somebody else , who, although they suffered no symptoms, then transmitted it further. Now somewhere down the line , somebody dies fromCOVID associated complications...... And before anybody takes a pop - have a look in the mirror and ask if you’ve acted 109% responsibly in relation to social distancing etc ? You see yes - the government DOES have a responsibility - but so do individuals, so maybe we’re all blameworthy in some respect. As another poster has put - you get the government you vote for. Personally I believe there has been massive apathy in relation to politics for decades now - with the members of our entitled society voting for the party who’s rhetoric promises them the most. Perhaps until there is a shift away from the “whats in it for me”, towards a “what’s best for us all”, then that won’t change ? The one thing that I think utterly highlights his whole approach to this early on....shaking hands with Covid patients. He was not concerned about his own health yet alone the nation's. That attitude permeated the government's early response to this crisis, and, probably cost a lot of lives. Now, he may do better going forward but yesterday's example with the testing figures being manipulated just screamed 'spin' again. I used to like Boris, I fell for the charm, the crazy hair and the funny quips in Latin. Then I started looking at his actual resume and realised it's littered with failure and and downright lies. I'm still waiting for the crowd to see that the emperor is stark bollock naked and has no robes. One day maybe, but I doubt it. He could literally push his naked buttocks in people's faces, fart and they would still swear he was wearing the finest silk and smelt of roses. I’ve got to admit I think the man is at best a total buffoon. Problem is - there was a “rock and a hard place” situation at the election - neither party or their leaderships evoked any sort of confidence. I think the electorate chose to pick what was perceived as the lesser of the two evils.
Mind you can you imagine the Hunt would get - how long was he the health secretary? He'd be deserving of the criticisms against the historical govt for the austerity re health funding. I bet he's a wee bit relieved he isn't PM. And a lot relieved he didn't need hospitalising with cv19. "Oops I scan read the comment and thought you meant the tory party picking Boris . | |||
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""[We are] All in this together" is a lovely quote for Covid, that that "[We are all [jointly liable] in this together". We aren't all in the same place, financially, socially, emotionally. So each person will have a different experience of Corona just like with the global recession 10 years ago. That phrase here allows a great human shield if things don't go well.... " I imagine the deaths in care homes are very woolly anyway as if an old person dies in a home at the moment the stock answer is. Well this person had enphysema, was carrying a few extra pounds or had heart disease or Bad type 1 diabetes or whatever but because Corona virus has come along it's speeded their journey to meet their maker. Fact is we have to put it down to something so Corona virus it is. The other illnesses were secondary. We wont be doing any tests. It's corona virus. end of. | |||
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"Just to be clear As of 5 pm on 28 April the UK death toll FOR HOSPITALS ONLY is 26097 It does not include the home deaths or more importantly the care home deaths from the over 15000 homes Boris is more focused on lying about death toll and spinning numbers The probable number is hard to tell such is the Boris spin Probably 40,000 A lot more than the 27,000 lies anyway No Just to be absolutely clear: Number of cases and deaths As of 9am on 1 May, there have been 1,023,824 tests, with 122,347 tests on 30 April. 762,279 people have been tested, of whom 177,454 have tested positive. As of 5pm on 30 April, of those who tested positive for coronavirus in the UK, 27,510 have died. This new figure includes deaths in all settings, not just in hospitals. The equivalent figure under the old measure would have been 23,229. https://www.gov.uk/guidance/coronavirus-covid-19-information-for-the-public Hmmm debatable. Why? Cos didn't ONS quote outside deaths to be 6,000+ (on 30th April briefing? My point stands. There's no way the govt has revised the way different settings register deaths... I'll backtrack if someone can source proof, such as all software systems made compatible with the readers such as what trusts have. GPS do not use the same software systems as hospital trusts... Something I have experienced in training. GP surgeries have different systems to each other. They did with the testing figures though. Just so disappointing, it marred a genuinely good go at hitting the target" I think that was always going to happen - I'll use the same phrase as others: moved the goalposts. I must admit that they'd use the "hit the target" with regards to capacity. Instead they opened up the request for testing via postal service and even changed the criteria for request (going on the briefing 29th April) - anyone. | |||
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" Not hindsight at all I'm just looking at what other government leaders have done and are doing Leaders of countries that are managing this a lot better than boris" Not wanting to burst your bubble but that's what hindsight is lol Seems you have a very negative view on life in general. Cheer up, the only person you can control is you | |||
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"Just to be clear As of 5 pm on 28 April the UK death toll FOR HOSPITALS ONLY is 26097 It does not include the home deaths or more importantly the care home deaths from the over 15000 homes Boris is more focused on lying about death toll and spinning numbers The probable number is hard to tell such is the Boris spin Probably 40,000 A lot more than the 27,000 lies anyway No Just to be absolutely clear: Number of cases and deaths As of 9am on 1 May, there have been 1,023,824 tests, with 122,347 tests on 30 April. 762,279 people have been tested, of whom 177,454 have tested positive. As of 5pm on 30 April, of those who tested positive for coronavirus in the UK, 27,510 have died. This new figure includes deaths in all settings, not just in hospitals. The equivalent figure under the old measure would have been 23,229. https://www.gov.uk/guidance/coronavirus-covid-19-information-for-the-public Hmmm debatable. Why? Cos didn't ONS quote outside deaths to be 6,000+ (on 30th April briefing? My point stands. There's no way the govt has revised the way different settings register deaths... I'll backtrack if someone can source proof, such as all software systems made compatible with the readers such as what trusts have. GPS do not use the same software systems as hospital trusts... Something I have experienced in training. GP surgeries have different systems to each other. " You’re an educated person with the ability and knowledge to check and understand this data. The footnotes for the data list all the sources. This is official data from official sources | |||
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"The UK has the second highest death toll in Europe Eight in the world In spite of a great health system A long litany of his failures has led to this Wasted precious time talking herd immunity while rest of world was locking down,even in lockdown his mixed messages "I will continue to shake hands",way to late in tracking and tracing cases,not,refused 3 tes to buy PPE gear with eu, Cheltenham fiasco,care home failures,and so it continues The numbers of deaths don't lie So what would you have done ? Taken the results of Exercise Cygnus seriously, perhaps? Spent money (which we know, for sure, can be found at will) preparing and, like New Zealand, reacted swiftly and decisively as soon as what was going on in Wuhan was known. That could have been done. It wasn't. Why? A combination of indifference and incompetence." | |||
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"Just to be clear As of 5 pm on 28 April the UK death toll FOR HOSPITALS ONLY is 26097 It does not include the home deaths or more importantly the care home deaths from the over 15000 homes Boris is more focused on lying about death toll and spinning numbers The probable number is hard to tell such is the Boris spin Probably 40,000 A lot more than the 27,000 lies anyway No Just to be absolutely clear: Number of cases and deaths As of 9am on 1 May, there have been 1,023,824 tests, with 122,347 tests on 30 April. 762,279 people have been tested, of whom 177,454 have tested positive. As of 5pm on 30 April, of those who tested positive for coronavirus in the UK, 27,510 have died. This new figure includes deaths in all settings, not just in hospitals. The equivalent figure under the old measure would have been 23,229. https://www.gov.uk/guidance/coronavirus-covid-19-information-for-the-public Hmmm debatable. Why? Cos didn't ONS quote outside deaths to be 6,000+ (on 30th April briefing? My point stands. There's no way the govt has revised the way different settings register deaths... I'll backtrack if someone can source proof, such as all software systems made compatible with the readers such as what trusts have. GPS do not use the same software systems as hospital trusts... Something I have experienced in training. GP surgeries have different systems to each other. They did with the testing figures though. Just so disappointing, it marred a genuinely good go at hitting the target I think that was always going to happen - I'll use the same phrase as others: moved the goalposts. I must admit that they'd use the "hit the target" with regards to capacity. Instead they opened up the request for testing via postal service and even changed the criteria for request (going on the briefing 29th April) - anyone. " In my eyes this is arrogance. The tories would have got more respect if they'd held up their hands and then (claimed they) met the target a few days late. They must think the majority of the public is completely dense. | |||
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"The UK has the second highest death toll in Europe Eight in the world In spite of a great health system A long litany of his failures has led to this Wasted precious time talking herd immunity while rest of world was locking down,even in lockdown his mixed messages "I will continue to shake hands",way to late in tracking and tracing cases,not,refused 3 tes to buy PPE gear with eu, Cheltenham fiasco,care home failures,and so it continues The numbers of deaths don't lie So what would you have done ? Never given the Toeirs power. Not that the red tories were any better, shame England has such poor politicians. Not given the tories power? Like it was a personal choice. We live in a democratic society and they won the election. How can so few people see that turning this current nightmare into a political slanging match only creates division. Covid-19 doesn't discriminate based on political allegiance. We are all in the same boat so let's just bloody get on with it. Mistakes have been made but mistakes would have been made by anyone as this is unprecedented. But saying 'we are all in it together' just gives those, who make those decisions, a free pass to make more. I for one, don't want answers to score some kind of point, I want scrutiny so more mistakes are not made. If what you have done hasn't worked, it's stupid carrying on the same. You change and learn for a better outcome" Politicians absolutely need to be accountable for their decisions. I fully support that. What I don't support is the clear political point scoring and falsely reported 'facts' (that goes both ways). We elect a political party to lead us. Surely in a time of crisis we need them to lead and the accountability comes later. At the moment they seem to spend half their time working on the problem and the other half justifying their actions and defending themselves. I would rather they spent the entire time working on it to get us through this as quickly as possible and answer to the witch-hunt later. No government benefits from a massive loss of lives or a devastated economy. And whilst everyone's circumstances are different and we are effected in different ways, I don't know anyone who is enjoying this current pandemic or isn't worried/effected some way so we are all in this together. | |||
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"Just to be clear As of 5 pm on 28 April the UK death toll FOR HOSPITALS ONLY is 26097 It does not include the home deaths or more importantly the care home deaths from the over 15000 homes Boris is more focused on lying about death toll and spinning numbers The probable number is hard to tell such is the Boris spin Probably 40,000 A lot more than the 27,000 lies anyway No Just to be absolutely clear: Number of cases and deaths As of 9am on 1 May, there have been 1,023,824 tests, with 122,347 tests on 30 April. 762,279 people have been tested, of whom 177,454 have tested positive. As of 5pm on 30 April, of those who tested positive for coronavirus in the UK, 27,510 have died. This new figure includes deaths in all settings, not just in hospitals. The equivalent figure under the old measure would have been 23,229. https://www.gov.uk/guidance/coronavirus-covid-19-information-for-the-public Hmmm debatable. Why? Cos didn't ONS quote outside deaths to be 6,000+ (on 30th April briefing? My point stands. There's no way the govt has revised the way different settings register deaths... I'll backtrack if someone can source proof, such as all software systems made compatible with the readers such as what trusts have. GPS do not use the same software systems as hospital trusts... Something I have experienced in training. GP surgeries have different systems to each other. They did with the testing figures though. Just so disappointing, it marred a genuinely good go at hitting the target I think that was always going to happen - I'll use the same phrase as others: moved the goalposts. I must admit that they'd use the "hit the target" with regards to capacity. Instead they opened up the request for testing via postal service and even changed the criteria for request (going on the briefing 29th April) - anyone. In my eyes this is arrogance. The tories would have got more respect if they'd held up their hands and then (claimed they) met the target a few days late. They must think the majority of the public is completely dense. " Have you read why the home tests and tests to satellite testing locations are only counted when they are sent out? | |||
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" Not hindsight at all I'm just looking at what other government leaders have done and are doing Leaders of countries that are managing this a lot better than boris Not wanting to burst your bubble but that's what hindsight is lol Seems you have a very negative view on life in general. Cheer up, the only person you can control is you" Hindsight is great. However hindsight doesn't apply when you are forewarned and we were, by Italy. Yet, 'herd immunity' became the policy and not test and trace? Why? Because the government knew how utterly unprepared we were and adapted the science to fit our situation. Seems perverse to me to spend money on Operation Cygnus and not act on its findings. What would help is if they just held their hands up and said, 'yeah, we made mistakes'. The French said so. My point is, if they can't admit mistakes, how can people trust them going forward? It's something we are so shit at in this country. | |||
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"Just to be clear As of 5 pm on 28 April the UK death toll FOR HOSPITALS ONLY is 26097 It does not include the home deaths or more importantly the care home deaths from the over 15000 homes Boris is more focused on lying about death toll and spinning numbers The probable number is hard to tell such is the Boris spin Probably 40,000 A lot more than the 27,000 lies anyway No Just to be absolutely clear: Number of cases and deaths As of 9am on 1 May, there have been 1,023,824 tests, with 122,347 tests on 30 April. 762,279 people have been tested, of whom 177,454 have tested positive. As of 5pm on 30 April, of those who tested positive for coronavirus in the UK, 27,510 have died. This new figure includes deaths in all settings, not just in hospitals. The equivalent figure under the old measure would have been 23,229. https://www.gov.uk/guidance/coronavirus-covid-19-information-for-the-public Hmmm debatable. Why? Cos didn't ONS quote outside deaths to be 6,000+ (on 30th April briefing? My point stands. There's no way the govt has revised the way different settings register deaths... I'll backtrack if someone can source proof, such as all software systems made compatible with the readers such as what trusts have. GPS do not use the same software systems as hospital trusts... Something I have experienced in training. GP surgeries have different systems to each other. They did with the testing figures though. Just so disappointing, it marred a genuinely good go at hitting the target I think that was always going to happen - I'll use the same phrase as others: moved the goalposts. I must admit that they'd use the "hit the target" with regards to capacity. Instead they opened up the request for testing via postal service and even changed the criteria for request (going on the briefing 29th April) - anyone. In my eyes this is arrogance. The tories would have got more respect if they'd held up their hands and then (claimed they) met the target a few days late. They must think the majority of the public is completely dense. Have you read why the home tests and tests to satellite testing locations are only counted when they are sent out?" Ok,if that's the case then why not state that these will be included in the number?? | |||
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"But then again he realises that a lot of self entitled people will not tolerate being told they have to stay in doors and will just flout the rules as we have already seen. Even the gently approach did not work as loads of people still broke the rules. Even more than have been caught. A pub in SHEFIELD got raided and they found people hiding in cupboards ffs "fucking idiots. I cannot abide people who can't or wont keep away from the pub's.in this case them drinking in that pub and the landlord or lady should be fined HEAVILY. | |||
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"Just to be clear As of 5 pm on 28 April the UK death toll FOR HOSPITALS ONLY is 26097 It does not include the home deaths or more importantly the care home deaths from the over 15000 homes Boris is more focused on lying about death toll and spinning numbers The probable number is hard to tell such is the Boris spin Probably 40,000 A lot more than the 27,000 lies anyway No Just to be absolutely clear: Number of cases and deaths As of 9am on 1 May, there have been 1,023,824 tests, with 122,347 tests on 30 April. 762,279 people have been tested, of whom 177,454 have tested positive. As of 5pm on 30 April, of those who tested positive for coronavirus in the UK, 27,510 have died. This new figure includes deaths in all settings, not just in hospitals. The equivalent figure under the old measure would have been 23,229. https://www.gov.uk/guidance/coronavirus-covid-19-information-for-the-public Hmmm debatable. Why? Cos didn't ONS quote outside deaths to be 6,000+ (on 30th April briefing? My point stands. There's no way the govt has revised the way different settings register deaths... I'll backtrack if someone can source proof, such as all software systems made compatible with the readers such as what trusts have. GPS do not use the same software systems as hospital trusts... Something I have experienced in training. GP surgeries have different systems to each other. You’re an educated person with the ability and knowledge to check and understand this data. The footnotes for the data list all the sources. This is official data from official sources "My point has not been disproved by what I read. The daily figures are as a result of lab-tested results and admits there could be a lag of 2-3 days. The ONS is still publishing weekly reports re cv19 (suspicions of) contributing to the deaths outside of hospital. So the "true" daily figure of cv19 related deaths still have a lag. My point still stands. | |||
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"Just to be clear As of 5 pm on 28 April the UK death toll FOR HOSPITALS ONLY is 26097 It does not include the home deaths or more importantly the care home deaths from the over 15000 homes Boris is more focused on lying about death toll and spinning numbers The probable number is hard to tell such is the Boris spin Probably 40,000 A lot more than the 27,000 lies anyway No Just to be absolutely clear: Number of cases and deaths As of 9am on 1 May, there have been 1,023,824 tests, with 122,347 tests on 30 April. 762,279 people have been tested, of whom 177,454 have tested positive. As of 5pm on 30 April, of those who tested positive for coronavirus in the UK, 27,510 have died. This new figure includes deaths in all settings, not just in hospitals. The equivalent figure under the old measure would have been 23,229. https://www.gov.uk/guidance/coronavirus-covid-19-information-for-the-public Hmmm debatable. Why? Cos didn't ONS quote outside deaths to be 6,000+ (on 30th April briefing? My point stands. There's no way the govt has revised the way different settings register deaths... I'll backtrack if someone can source proof, such as all software systems made compatible with the readers such as what trusts have. GPS do not use the same software systems as hospital trusts... Something I have experienced in training. GP surgeries have different systems to each other. They did with the testing figures though. Just so disappointing, it marred a genuinely good go at hitting the target I think that was always going to happen - I'll use the same phrase as others: moved the goalposts. I must admit that they'd use the "hit the target" with regards to capacity. Instead they opened up the request for testing via postal service and even changed the criteria for request (going on the briefing 29th April) - anyone. In my eyes this is arrogance. The tories would have got more respect if they'd held up their hands and then (claimed they) met the target a few days late. They must think the majority of the public is completely dense. Have you read why the home tests and tests to satellite testing locations are only counted when they are sent out?" To be honest, the majority I read is literature concerning health. I haven't been too interested in the testing because it's been too little too late. As far as I'm concerned they increased the testing cos they couldn't afford healthcare professionals not in work. | |||
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"Just to be clear As of 5 pm on 28 April the UK death toll FOR HOSPITALS ONLY is 26097 It does not include the home deaths or more importantly the care home deaths from the over 15000 homes Boris is more focused on lying about death toll and spinning numbers The probable number is hard to tell such is the Boris spin Probably 40,000 A lot more than the 27,000 lies anyway No Just to be absolutely clear: Number of cases and deaths As of 9am on 1 May, there have been 1,023,824 tests, with 122,347 tests on 30 April. 762,279 people have been tested, of whom 177,454 have tested positive. As of 5pm on 30 April, of those who tested positive for coronavirus in the UK, 27,510 have died. This new figure includes deaths in all settings, not just in hospitals. The equivalent figure under the old measure would have been 23,229. https://www.gov.uk/guidance/coronavirus-covid-19-information-for-the-public Hmmm debatable. Why? Cos didn't ONS quote outside deaths to be 6,000+ (on 30th April briefing? My point stands. There's no way the govt has revised the way different settings register deaths... I'll backtrack if someone can source proof, such as all software systems made compatible with the readers such as what trusts have. GPS do not use the same software systems as hospital trusts... Something I have experienced in training. GP surgeries have different systems to each other. They did with the testing figures though. Just so disappointing, it marred a genuinely good go at hitting the target I think that was always going to happen - I'll use the same phrase as others: moved the goalposts. I must admit that they'd use the "hit the target" with regards to capacity. Instead they opened up the request for testing via postal service and even changed the criteria for request (going on the briefing 29th April) - anyone. In my eyes this is arrogance. The tories would have got more respect if they'd held up their hands and then (claimed they) met the target a few days late. They must think the majority of the public is completely dense. Have you read why the home tests and tests to satellite testing locations are only counted when they are sent out? To be honest, the majority I read is literature concerning health. I haven't been too interested in the testing because it's been too little too late. As far as I'm concerned they increased the testing cos they couldn't afford healthcare professionals not in work. " Appreciate that . The reason and explanation for the sent out tests being counted the way they are is logical, and is not as suggested, an arrogance. Reading health related literature you will know more than anyone why the testing infrastructure in the U.K. was not equipped to mobilise as quickly as would have been liked. | |||
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"Just to be clear As of 5 pm on 28 April the UK death toll FOR HOSPITALS ONLY is 26097 It does not include the home deaths or more importantly the care home deaths from the over 15000 homes Boris is more focused on lying about death toll and spinning numbers The probable number is hard to tell such is the Boris spin Probably 40,000 A lot more than the 27,000 lies anyway No Just to be absolutely clear: Number of cases and deaths As of 9am on 1 May, there have been 1,023,824 tests, with 122,347 tests on 30 April. 762,279 people have been tested, of whom 177,454 have tested positive. As of 5pm on 30 April, of those who tested positive for coronavirus in the UK, 27,510 have died. This new figure includes deaths in all settings, not just in hospitals. The equivalent figure under the old measure would have been 23,229. https://www.gov.uk/guidance/coronavirus-covid-19-information-for-the-public Hmmm debatable. Why? Cos didn't ONS quote outside deaths to be 6,000+ (on 30th April briefing? My point stands. There's no way the govt has revised the way different settings register deaths... I'll backtrack if someone can source proof, such as all software systems made compatible with the readers such as what trusts have. GPS do not use the same software systems as hospital trusts... Something I have experienced in training. GP surgeries have different systems to each other. They did with the testing figures though. Just so disappointing, it marred a genuinely good go at hitting the target I think that was always going to happen - I'll use the same phrase as others: moved the goalposts. I must admit that they'd use the "hit the target" with regards to capacity. Instead they opened up the request for testing via postal service and even changed the criteria for request (going on the briefing 29th April) - anyone. In my eyes this is arrogance. The tories would have got more respect if they'd held up their hands and then (claimed they) met the target a few days late. They must think the majority of the public is completely dense. Have you read why the home tests and tests to satellite testing locations are only counted when they are sent out? To be honest, the majority I read is literature concerning health. I haven't been too interested in the testing because it's been too little too late. As far as I'm concerned they increased the testing cos they couldn't afford healthcare professionals not in work. " Is it the 6,000 jump that is making you question the validity of the daily figures ? | |||
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"Just to be clear As of 5 pm on 28 April the UK death toll FOR HOSPITALS ONLY is 26097 It does not include the home deaths or more importantly the care home deaths from the over 15000 homes Boris is more focused on lying about death toll and spinning numbers The probable number is hard to tell such is the Boris spin Probably 40,000 A lot more than the 27,000 lies anyway No Just to be absolutely clear: Number of cases and deaths As of 9am on 1 May, there have been 1,023,824 tests, with 122,347 tests on 30 April. 762,279 people have been tested, of whom 177,454 have tested positive. As of 5pm on 30 April, of those who tested positive for coronavirus in the UK, 27,510 have died. This new figure includes deaths in all settings, not just in hospitals. The equivalent figure under the old measure would have been 23,229. https://www.gov.uk/guidance/coronavirus-covid-19-information-for-the-public Hmmm debatable. Why? Cos didn't ONS quote outside deaths to be 6,000+ (on 30th April briefing? My point stands. There's no way the govt has revised the way different settings register deaths... I'll backtrack if someone can source proof, such as all software systems made compatible with the readers such as what trusts have. GPS do not use the same software systems as hospital trusts... Something I have experienced in training. GP surgeries have different systems to each other. They did with the testing figures though. Just so disappointing, it marred a genuinely good go at hitting the target I think that was always going to happen - I'll use the same phrase as others: moved the goalposts. I must admit that they'd use the "hit the target" with regards to capacity. Instead they opened up the request for testing via postal service and even changed the criteria for request (going on the briefing 29th April) - anyone. In my eyes this is arrogance. The tories would have got more respect if they'd held up their hands and then (claimed they) met the target a few days late. They must think the majority of the public is completely dense. Have you read why the home tests and tests to satellite testing locations are only counted when they are sent out? To be honest, the majority I read is literature concerning health. I haven't been too interested in the testing because it's been too little too late. As far as I'm concerned they increased the testing cos they couldn't afford healthcare professionals not in work. Appreciate that . The reason and explanation for the sent out tests being counted the way they are is logical, and is not as suggested, an arrogance. Reading health related literature you will know more than anyone why the testing infrastructure in the U.K. was not equipped to mobilise as quickly as would have been liked. " If it were logical the issue would not of been raised in the HSJ. Only logical when the parameters were changed. But, as I said earlier, it's very hard for some people to see through the spin and will defend their team no matter what fouls are committed. | |||
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"Just to be clear As of 5 pm on 28 April the UK death toll FOR HOSPITALS ONLY is 26097 It does not include the home deaths or more importantly the care home deaths from the over 15000 homes Boris is more focused on lying about death toll and spinning numbers The probable number is hard to tell such is the Boris spin Probably 40,000 A lot more than the 27,000 lies anyway No Just to be absolutely clear: Number of cases and deaths As of 9am on 1 May, there have been 1,023,824 tests, with 122,347 tests on 30 April. 762,279 people have been tested, of whom 177,454 have tested positive. As of 5pm on 30 April, of those who tested positive for coronavirus in the UK, 27,510 have died. This new figure includes deaths in all settings, not just in hospitals. The equivalent figure under the old measure would have been 23,229. https://www.gov.uk/guidance/coronavirus-covid-19-information-for-the-public Hmmm debatable. Why? Cos didn't ONS quote outside deaths to be 6,000+ (on 30th April briefing? My point stands. There's no way the govt has revised the way different settings register deaths... I'll backtrack if someone can source proof, such as all software systems made compatible with the readers such as what trusts have. GPS do not use the same software systems as hospital trusts... Something I have experienced in training. GP surgeries have different systems to each other. They did with the testing figures though. Just so disappointing, it marred a genuinely good go at hitting the target I think that was always going to happen - I'll use the same phrase as others: moved the goalposts. I must admit that they'd use the "hit the target" with regards to capacity. Instead they opened up the request for testing via postal service and even changed the criteria for request (going on the briefing 29th April) - anyone. In my eyes this is arrogance. The tories would have got more respect if they'd held up their hands and then (claimed they) met the target a few days late. They must think the majority of the public is completely dense. Have you read why the home tests and tests to satellite testing locations are only counted when they are sent out? Ok,if that's the case then why not state that these will be included in the number?? " So some on the people on this thread actually think that the Germans, french, swedes etc, actually tell the truth about their deaths in care homes to the letter. I bet the spanish government don't expect the spanish inquisition to come a calling over their numbers. It's only us Brits that are daft enough to apply the letter of the EU law. p.s. Nobody expects the spanish inquisition | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Just to be clear As of 5 pm on 28 April the UK death toll FOR HOSPITALS ONLY is 26097 It does not include the home deaths or more importantly the care home deaths from the over 15000 homes Boris is more focused on lying about death toll and spinning numbers The probable number is hard to tell such is the Boris spin Probably 40,000 A lot more than the 27,000 lies anyway No Just to be absolutely clear: Number of cases and deaths As of 9am on 1 May, there have been 1,023,824 tests, with 122,347 tests on 30 April. 762,279 people have been tested, of whom 177,454 have tested positive. As of 5pm on 30 April, of those who tested positive for coronavirus in the UK, 27,510 have died. This new figure includes deaths in all settings, not just in hospitals. The equivalent figure under the old measure would have been 23,229. https://www.gov.uk/guidance/coronavirus-covid-19-information-for-the-public Hmmm debatable. Why? Cos didn't ONS quote outside deaths to be 6,000+ (on 30th April briefing? My point stands. There's no way the govt has revised the way different settings register deaths... I'll backtrack if someone can source proof, such as all software systems made compatible with the readers such as what trusts have. GPS do not use the same software systems as hospital trusts... Something I have experienced in training. GP surgeries have different systems to each other. They did with the testing figures though. Just so disappointing, it marred a genuinely good go at hitting the target I think that was always going to happen - I'll use the same phrase as others: moved the goalposts. I must admit that they'd use the "hit the target" with regards to capacity. Instead they opened up the request for testing via postal service and even changed the criteria for request (going on the briefing 29th April) - anyone. In my eyes this is arrogance. The tories would have got more respect if they'd held up their hands and then (claimed they) met the target a few days late. They must think the majority of the public is completely dense. Have you read why the home tests and tests to satellite testing locations are only counted when they are sent out? Ok,if that's the case then why not state that these will be included in the number?? So some on the people on this thread actually think that the Germans, french, swedes etc, actually tell the truth about their deaths in care homes to the letter. I bet the spanish government don't expect the spanish inquisition to come a calling over their numbers. It's only us Brits that are daft enough to apply the letter of the EU law. p.s. Nobody expects the spanish inquisition "Hey, at least they started counting them fairly soon. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Just to be clear As of 5 pm on 28 April the UK death toll FOR HOSPITALS ONLY is 26097 It does not include the home deaths or more importantly the care home deaths from the over 15000 homes Boris is more focused on lying about death toll and spinning numbers The probable number is hard to tell such is the Boris spin Probably 40,000 A lot more than the 27,000 lies anyway No Just to be absolutely clear: Number of cases and deaths As of 9am on 1 May, there have been 1,023,824 tests, with 122,347 tests on 30 April. 762,279 people have been tested, of whom 177,454 have tested positive. As of 5pm on 30 April, of those who tested positive for coronavirus in the UK, 27,510 have died. This new figure includes deaths in all settings, not just in hospitals. The equivalent figure under the old measure would have been 23,229. https://www.gov.uk/guidance/coronavirus-covid-19-information-for-the-public Hmmm debatable. Why? Cos didn't ONS quote outside deaths to be 6,000+ (on 30th April briefing? My point stands. There's no way the govt has revised the way different settings register deaths... I'll backtrack if someone can source proof, such as all software systems made compatible with the readers such as what trusts have. GPS do not use the same software systems as hospital trusts... Something I have experienced in training. GP surgeries have different systems to each other. They did with the testing figures though. Just so disappointing, it marred a genuinely good go at hitting the target I think that was always going to happen - I'll use the same phrase as others: moved the goalposts. I must admit that they'd use the "hit the target" with regards to capacity. Instead they opened up the request for testing via postal service and even changed the criteria for request (going on the briefing 29th April) - anyone. In my eyes this is arrogance. The tories would have got more respect if they'd held up their hands and then (claimed they) met the target a few days late. They must think the majority of the public is completely dense. Have you read why the home tests and tests to satellite testing locations are only counted when they are sent out? To be honest, the majority I read is literature concerning health. I haven't been too interested in the testing because it's been too little too late. As far as I'm concerned they increased the testing cos they couldn't afford healthcare professionals not in work. Appreciate that . The reason and explanation for the sent out tests being counted the way they are is logical, and is not as suggested, an arrogance. Reading health related literature you will know more than anyone why the testing infrastructure in the U.K. was not equipped to mobilise as quickly as would have been liked. If it were logical the issue would not of been raised in the HSJ. Only logical when the parameters were changed. But, as I said earlier, it's very hard for some people to see through the spin and will defend their team no matter what fouls are committed. " When would you count the sent out tests? Genuine question. | |||
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"Another one who only reads headlines and does not understand how the stats are compiled. If you actually read what Boris said about letterboxes you would realise it was in support of muslim women being able to wear what they want. The UK were tracking and tracing from January until the number got too high for this to be sensible to do so. Do a bit of research rather then being a sheep and following the flock Some creative defence that..it was at best a massively insensitive borderline racist comment. And there was also that picannies quote. Not to mention a litany of sexist remarks. Stil The public gets what's the public wants ." Let’s not forget the ‘bumboys in tank tops’ remark | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Just to be clear As of 5 pm on 28 April the UK death toll FOR HOSPITALS ONLY is 26097 It does not include the home deaths or more importantly the care home deaths from the over 15000 homes Boris is more focused on lying about death toll and spinning numbers The probable number is hard to tell such is the Boris spin Probably 40,000 A lot more than the 27,000 lies anyway No Just to be absolutely clear: Number of cases and deaths As of 9am on 1 May, there have been 1,023,824 tests, with 122,347 tests on 30 April. 762,279 people have been tested, of whom 177,454 have tested positive. As of 5pm on 30 April, of those who tested positive for coronavirus in the UK, 27,510 have died. This new figure includes deaths in all settings, not just in hospitals. The equivalent figure under the old measure would have been 23,229. https://www.gov.uk/guidance/coronavirus-covid-19-information-for-the-public Hmmm debatable. Why? Cos didn't ONS quote outside deaths to be 6,000+ (on 30th April briefing? My point stands. There's no way the govt has revised the way different settings register deaths... I'll backtrack if someone can source proof, such as all software systems made compatible with the readers such as what trusts have. GPS do not use the same software systems as hospital trusts... Something I have experienced in training. GP surgeries have different systems to each other. They did with the testing figures though. Just so disappointing, it marred a genuinely good go at hitting the target I think that was always going to happen - I'll use the same phrase as others: moved the goalposts. I must admit that they'd use the "hit the target" with regards to capacity. Instead they opened up the request for testing via postal service and even changed the criteria for request (going on the briefing 29th April) - anyone. In my eyes this is arrogance. The tories would have got more respect if they'd held up their hands and then (claimed they) met the target a few days late. They must think the majority of the public is completely dense. Have you read why the home tests and tests to satellite testing locations are only counted when they are sent out? To be honest, the majority I read is literature concerning health. I haven't been too interested in the testing because it's been too little too late. As far as I'm concerned they increased the testing cos they couldn't afford healthcare professionals not in work. Appreciate that . The reason and explanation for the sent out tests being counted the way they are is logical, and is not as suggested, an arrogance. Reading health related literature you will know more than anyone why the testing infrastructure in the U.K. was not equipped to mobilise as quickly as would have been liked. " I watch most of the briefings. And I see a change of goal so that they can meet what they set out to do. I won't always be right as mentally I sometimes switch off during the meetings and I have memory problems due to recovering from a brain infection. I am one of few people who don't mind being proved wrong. My point is they were always going to meet their target by hook or by crook. I think the truth lies in bending their rules/goals/truth. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Just to be clear As of 5 pm on 28 April the UK death toll FOR HOSPITALS ONLY is 26097 It does not include the home deaths or more importantly the care home deaths from the over 15000 homes Boris is more focused on lying about death toll and spinning numbers The probable number is hard to tell such is the Boris spin Probably 40,000 A lot more than the 27,000 lies anyway No Just to be absolutely clear: Number of cases and deaths As of 9am on 1 May, there have been 1,023,824 tests, with 122,347 tests on 30 April. 762,279 people have been tested, of whom 177,454 have tested positive. As of 5pm on 30 April, of those who tested positive for coronavirus in the UK, 27,510 have died. This new figure includes deaths in all settings, not just in hospitals. The equivalent figure under the old measure would have been 23,229. https://www.gov.uk/guidance/coronavirus-covid-19-information-for-the-public Hmmm debatable. Why? Cos didn't ONS quote outside deaths to be 6,000+ (on 30th April briefing? My point stands. There's no way the govt has revised the way different settings register deaths... I'll backtrack if someone can source proof, such as all software systems made compatible with the readers such as what trusts have. GPS do not use the same software systems as hospital trusts... Something I have experienced in training. GP surgeries have different systems to each other. They did with the testing figures though. Just so disappointing, it marred a genuinely good go at hitting the target I think that was always going to happen - I'll use the same phrase as others: moved the goalposts. I must admit that they'd use the "hit the target" with regards to capacity. Instead they opened up the request for testing via postal service and even changed the criteria for request (going on the briefing 29th April) - anyone. In my eyes this is arrogance. The tories would have got more respect if they'd held up their hands and then (claimed they) met the target a few days late. They must think the majority of the public is completely dense. Have you read why the home tests and tests to satellite testing locations are only counted when they are sent out? To be honest, the majority I read is literature concerning health. I haven't been too interested in the testing because it's been too little too late. As far as I'm concerned they increased the testing cos they couldn't afford healthcare professionals not in work. Appreciate that . The reason and explanation for the sent out tests being counted the way they are is logical, and is not as suggested, an arrogance. Reading health related literature you will know more than anyone why the testing infrastructure in the U.K. was not equipped to mobilise as quickly as would have been liked. If it were logical the issue would not of been raised in the HSJ. Only logical when the parameters were changed. But, as I said earlier, it's very hard for some people to see through the spin and will defend their team no matter what fouls are committed. When would you count the sent out tests? Genuine question." Erm, when the test result actually reached the lab. Not when it was ordered or on the post. 'Hey Bob how much money have we made this month?'...'a million quid'.....'funny, account says 700,000'.....'oh, I included those who said they were gonna pay as well but hadn't yet'....right oh | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Just to be clear As of 5 pm on 28 April the UK death toll FOR HOSPITALS ONLY is 26097 It does not include the home deaths or more importantly the care home deaths from the over 15000 homes Boris is more focused on lying about death toll and spinning numbers The probable number is hard to tell such is the Boris spin Probably 40,000 A lot more than the 27,000 lies anyway No Just to be absolutely clear: Number of cases and deaths As of 9am on 1 May, there have been 1,023,824 tests, with 122,347 tests on 30 April. 762,279 people have been tested, of whom 177,454 have tested positive. As of 5pm on 30 April, of those who tested positive for coronavirus in the UK, 27,510 have died. This new figure includes deaths in all settings, not just in hospitals. The equivalent figure under the old measure would have been 23,229. https://www.gov.uk/guidance/coronavirus-covid-19-information-for-the-public Hmmm debatable. Why? Cos didn't ONS quote outside deaths to be 6,000+ (on 30th April briefing? My point stands. There's no way the govt has revised the way different settings register deaths... I'll backtrack if someone can source proof, such as all software systems made compatible with the readers such as what trusts have. GPS do not use the same software systems as hospital trusts... Something I have experienced in training. GP surgeries have different systems to each other. They did with the testing figures though. Just so disappointing, it marred a genuinely good go at hitting the target I think that was always going to happen - I'll use the same phrase as others: moved the goalposts. I must admit that they'd use the "hit the target" with regards to capacity. Instead they opened up the request for testing via postal service and even changed the criteria for request (going on the briefing 29th April) - anyone. In my eyes this is arrogance. The tories would have got more respect if they'd held up their hands and then (claimed they) met the target a few days late. They must think the majority of the public is completely dense. Have you read why the home tests and tests to satellite testing locations are only counted when they are sent out? To be honest, the majority I read is literature concerning health. I haven't been too interested in the testing because it's been too little too late. As far as I'm concerned they increased the testing cos they couldn't afford healthcare professionals not in work. Appreciate that . The reason and explanation for the sent out tests being counted the way they are is logical, and is not as suggested, an arrogance. Reading health related literature you will know more than anyone why the testing infrastructure in the U.K. was not equipped to mobilise as quickly as would have been liked. If it were logical the issue would not of been raised in the HSJ. Only logical when the parameters were changed. But, as I said earlier, it's very hard for some people to see through the spin and will defend their team no matter what fouls are committed. " Parameters is such a better word than goal posts | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Just to be clear As of 5 pm on 28 April the UK death toll FOR HOSPITALS ONLY is 26097 It does not include the home deaths or more importantly the care home deaths from the over 15000 homes Boris is more focused on lying about death toll and spinning numbers The probable number is hard to tell such is the Boris spin Probably 40,000 A lot more than the 27,000 lies anyway No Just to be absolutely clear: Number of cases and deaths As of 9am on 1 May, there have been 1,023,824 tests, with 122,347 tests on 30 April. 762,279 people have been tested, of whom 177,454 have tested positive. As of 5pm on 30 April, of those who tested positive for coronavirus in the UK, 27,510 have died. This new figure includes deaths in all settings, not just in hospitals. The equivalent figure under the old measure would have been 23,229. https://www.gov.uk/guidance/coronavirus-covid-19-information-for-the-public Hmmm debatable. Why? Cos didn't ONS quote outside deaths to be 6,000+ (on 30th April briefing? My point stands. There's no way the govt has revised the way different settings register deaths... I'll backtrack if someone can source proof, such as all software systems made compatible with the readers such as what trusts have. GPS do not use the same software systems as hospital trusts... Something I have experienced in training. GP surgeries have different systems to each other. They did with the testing figures though. Just so disappointing, it marred a genuinely good go at hitting the target I think that was always going to happen - I'll use the same phrase as others: moved the goalposts. I must admit that they'd use the "hit the target" with regards to capacity. Instead they opened up the request for testing via postal service and even changed the criteria for request (going on the briefing 29th April) - anyone. In my eyes this is arrogance. The tories would have got more respect if they'd held up their hands and then (claimed they) met the target a few days late. They must think the majority of the public is completely dense. Have you read why the home tests and tests to satellite testing locations are only counted when they are sent out? To be honest, the majority I read is literature concerning health. I haven't been too interested in the testing because it's been too little too late. As far as I'm concerned they increased the testing cos they couldn't afford healthcare professionals not in work. Appreciate that . The reason and explanation for the sent out tests being counted the way they are is logical, and is not as suggested, an arrogance. Reading health related literature you will know more than anyone why the testing infrastructure in the U.K. was not equipped to mobilise as quickly as would have been liked. I watch most of the briefings. And I see a change of goal so that they can meet what they set out to do. I won't always be right as mentally I sometimes switch off during the meetings and I have memory problems due to recovering from a brain infection. I am one of few people who don't mind being proved wrong. My point is they were always going to meet their target by hook or by crook. I think the truth lies in bending their rules/goals/truth. " the home tests are an important part of the new testing strategy. there was always gong to be a visible surge due to their increased use. Tracking a home test coming back, identifying when it was sent out and ensuring it’s not getting counted more than once is easily solved by counting it on the day it is sent out. When a test is performed at one of the test centres it’s counted for that day. The method of counting is uniform. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Just to be clear As of 5 pm on 28 April the UK death toll FOR HOSPITALS ONLY is 26097 It does not include the home deaths or more importantly the care home deaths from the over 15000 homes Boris is more focused on lying about death toll and spinning numbers The probable number is hard to tell such is the Boris spin Probably 40,000 A lot more than the 27,000 lies anyway No Just to be absolutely clear: Number of cases and deaths As of 9am on 1 May, there have been 1,023,824 tests, with 122,347 tests on 30 April. 762,279 people have been tested, of whom 177,454 have tested positive. As of 5pm on 30 April, of those who tested positive for coronavirus in the UK, 27,510 have died. This new figure includes deaths in all settings, not just in hospitals. The equivalent figure under the old measure would have been 23,229. https://www.gov.uk/guidance/coronavirus-covid-19-information-for-the-public Hmmm debatable. Why? Cos didn't ONS quote outside deaths to be 6,000+ (on 30th April briefing? My point stands. There's no way the govt has revised the way different settings register deaths... I'll backtrack if someone can source proof, such as all software systems made compatible with the readers such as what trusts have. GPS do not use the same software systems as hospital trusts... Something I have experienced in training. GP surgeries have different systems to each other. They did with the testing figures though. Just so disappointing, it marred a genuinely good go at hitting the target I think that was always going to happen - I'll use the same phrase as others: moved the goalposts. I must admit that they'd use the "hit the target" with regards to capacity. Instead they opened up the request for testing via postal service and even changed the criteria for request (going on the briefing 29th April) - anyone. In my eyes this is arrogance. The tories would have got more respect if they'd held up their hands and then (claimed they) met the target a few days late. They must think the majority of the public is completely dense. Have you read why the home tests and tests to satellite testing locations are only counted when they are sent out? To be honest, the majority I read is literature concerning health. I haven't been too interested in the testing because it's been too little too late. As far as I'm concerned they increased the testing cos they couldn't afford healthcare professionals not in work. Appreciate that . The reason and explanation for the sent out tests being counted the way they are is logical, and is not as suggested, an arrogance. Reading health related literature you will know more than anyone why the testing infrastructure in the U.K. was not equipped to mobilise as quickly as would have been liked. If it were logical the issue would not of been raised in the HSJ. Only logical when the parameters were changed. But, as I said earlier, it's very hard for some people to see through the spin and will defend their team no matter what fouls are committed. When would you count the sent out tests? Genuine question." Reflecting on my original suspicion of the govt classing capacity - this is actually what the postal tests are until they are returned and tested  - I love it when I'm right  | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Just to be clear As of 5 pm on 28 April the UK death toll FOR HOSPITALS ONLY is 26097 It does not include the home deaths or more importantly the care home deaths from the over 15000 homes Boris is more focused on lying about death toll and spinning numbers The probable number is hard to tell such is the Boris spin Probably 40,000 A lot more than the 27,000 lies anyway No Just to be absolutely clear: Number of cases and deaths As of 9am on 1 May, there have been 1,023,824 tests, with 122,347 tests on 30 April. 762,279 people have been tested, of whom 177,454 have tested positive. As of 5pm on 30 April, of those who tested positive for coronavirus in the UK, 27,510 have died. This new figure includes deaths in all settings, not just in hospitals. The equivalent figure under the old measure would have been 23,229. https://www.gov.uk/guidance/coronavirus-covid-19-information-for-the-public Hmmm debatable. Why? Cos didn't ONS quote outside deaths to be 6,000+ (on 30th April briefing? My point stands. There's no way the govt has revised the way different settings register deaths... I'll backtrack if someone can source proof, such as all software systems made compatible with the readers such as what trusts have. GPS do not use the same software systems as hospital trusts... Something I have experienced in training. GP surgeries have different systems to each other. They did with the testing figures though. Just so disappointing, it marred a genuinely good go at hitting the target I think that was always going to happen - I'll use the same phrase as others: moved the goalposts. I must admit that they'd use the "hit the target" with regards to capacity. Instead they opened up the request for testing via postal service and even changed the criteria for request (going on the briefing 29th April) - anyone. In my eyes this is arrogance. The tories would have got more respect if they'd held up their hands and then (claimed they) met the target a few days late. They must think the majority of the public is completely dense. Have you read why the home tests and tests to satellite testing locations are only counted when they are sent out? To be honest, the majority I read is literature concerning health. I haven't been too interested in the testing because it's been too little too late. As far as I'm concerned they increased the testing cos they couldn't afford healthcare professionals not in work. Appreciate that . The reason and explanation for the sent out tests being counted the way they are is logical, and is not as suggested, an arrogance. Reading health related literature you will know more than anyone why the testing infrastructure in the U.K. was not equipped to mobilise as quickly as would have been liked. If it were logical the issue would not of been raised in the HSJ. Only logical when the parameters were changed. But, as I said earlier, it's very hard for some people to see through the spin and will defend their team no matter what fouls are committed. When would you count the sent out tests? Genuine question. Erm, when the test result actually reached the lab. Not when it was ordered or on the post. 'Hey Bob how much money have we made this month?'...'a million quid'.....'funny, account says 700,000'.....'oh, I included those who said they were gonna pay as well but hadn't yet'....right oh" When it reaches the lab how do they know where it has come from ? Consider the labs will be receiving tests from different sources. Has it come from a sent out home test, a regional test centre, satellite testing unit, hospital etc.. It’s not as straight forward to identify the home test and count it correctly . | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Just to be clear As of 5 pm on 28 April the UK death toll FOR HOSPITALS ONLY is 26097 It does not include the home deaths or more importantly the care home deaths from the over 15000 homes Boris is more focused on lying about death toll and spinning numbers The probable number is hard to tell such is the Boris spin Probably 40,000 A lot more than the 27,000 lies anyway No Just to be absolutely clear: Number of cases and deaths As of 9am on 1 May, there have been 1,023,824 tests, with 122,347 tests on 30 April. 762,279 people have been tested, of whom 177,454 have tested positive. As of 5pm on 30 April, of those who tested positive for coronavirus in the UK, 27,510 have died. This new figure includes deaths in all settings, not just in hospitals. The equivalent figure under the old measure would have been 23,229. https://www.gov.uk/guidance/coronavirus-covid-19-information-for-the-public Hmmm debatable. Why? Cos didn't ONS quote outside deaths to be 6,000+ (on 30th April briefing? My point stands. There's no way the govt has revised the way different settings register deaths... I'll backtrack if someone can source proof, such as all software systems made compatible with the readers such as what trusts have. GPS do not use the same software systems as hospital trusts... Something I have experienced in training. GP surgeries have different systems to each other. They did with the testing figures though. Just so disappointing, it marred a genuinely good go at hitting the target I think that was always going to happen - I'll use the same phrase as others: moved the goalposts. I must admit that they'd use the "hit the target" with regards to capacity. Instead they opened up the request for testing via postal service and even changed the criteria for request (going on the briefing 29th April) - anyone. In my eyes this is arrogance. The tories would have got more respect if they'd held up their hands and then (claimed they) met the target a few days late. They must think the majority of the public is completely dense. Have you read why the home tests and tests to satellite testing locations are only counted when they are sent out? To be honest, the majority I read is literature concerning health. I haven't been too interested in the testing because it's been too little too late. As far as I'm concerned they increased the testing cos they couldn't afford healthcare professionals not in work. Appreciate that . The reason and explanation for the sent out tests being counted the way they are is logical, and is not as suggested, an arrogance. Reading health related literature you will know more than anyone why the testing infrastructure in the U.K. was not equipped to mobilise as quickly as would have been liked. I watch most of the briefings. And I see a change of goal so that they can meet what they set out to do. I won't always be right as mentally I sometimes switch off during the meetings and I have memory problems due to recovering from a brain infection. I am one of few people who don't mind being proved wrong. My point is they were always going to meet their target by hook or by crook. I think the truth lies in bending their rules/goals/truth. the home tests are an important part of the new testing strategy. there was always gong to be a visible surge due to their increased use. Tracking a home test coming back, identifying when it was sent out and ensuring it’s not getting counted more than once is easily solved by counting it on the day it is sent out. When a test is performed at one of the test centres it’s counted for that day. The method of counting is uniform. " How can it be of it was being questioned? Should this not of been made clear at the start? Look, I dunno what it's gonna take for you to admit anything they have done is wrong. Cheltenham?? Is it even possible that they could be stretching the truth a tad even. Are they beyond any criticism in your eyes? Genuine question | |||
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Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Just to be clear As of 5 pm on 28 April the UK death toll FOR HOSPITALS ONLY is 26097 It does not include the home deaths or more importantly the care home deaths from the over 15000 homes Boris is more focused on lying about death toll and spinning numbers The probable number is hard to tell such is the Boris spin Probably 40,000 A lot more than the 27,000 lies anyway No Just to be absolutely clear: Number of cases and deaths As of 9am on 1 May, there have been 1,023,824 tests, with 122,347 tests on 30 April. 762,279 people have been tested, of whom 177,454 have tested positive. As of 5pm on 30 April, of those who tested positive for coronavirus in the UK, 27,510 have died. This new figure includes deaths in all settings, not just in hospitals. The equivalent figure under the old measure would have been 23,229. https://www.gov.uk/guidance/coronavirus-covid-19-information-for-the-public Hmmm debatable. Why? Cos didn't ONS quote outside deaths to be 6,000+ (on 30th April briefing? My point stands. There's no way the govt has revised the way different settings register deaths... I'll backtrack if someone can source proof, such as all software systems made compatible with the readers such as what trusts have. GPS do not use the same software systems as hospital trusts... Something I have experienced in training. GP surgeries have different systems to each other. They did with the testing figures though. Just so disappointing, it marred a genuinely good go at hitting the target I think that was always going to happen - I'll use the same phrase as others: moved the goalposts. I must admit that they'd use the "hit the target" with regards to capacity. Instead they opened up the request for testing via postal service and even changed the criteria for request (going on the briefing 29th April) - anyone. In my eyes this is arrogance. The tories would have got more respect if they'd held up their hands and then (claimed they) met the target a few days late. They must think the majority of the public is completely dense. Have you read why the home tests and tests to satellite testing locations are only counted when they are sent out? To be honest, the majority I read is literature concerning health. I haven't been too interested in the testing because it's been too little too late. As far as I'm concerned they increased the testing cos they couldn't afford healthcare professionals not in work. Appreciate that . The reason and explanation for the sent out tests being counted the way they are is logical, and is not as suggested, an arrogance. Reading health related literature you will know more than anyone why the testing infrastructure in the U.K. was not equipped to mobilise as quickly as would have been liked. If it were logical the issue would not of been raised in the HSJ. Only logical when the parameters were changed. But, as I said earlier, it's very hard for some people to see through the spin and will defend their team no matter what fouls are committed. When would you count the sent out tests? Genuine question. Reflecting on my original suspicion of the govt classing capacity - this is actually what the postal tests are until they are returned and tested - I love it when I'm right "Not quite
Are the regional test centres tests being counted daily when they have been processed at the lab? I don’t think so. These in person tests are counted on the day the sample is taken. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Just to be clear As of 5 pm on 28 April the UK death toll FOR HOSPITALS ONLY is 26097 It does not include the home deaths or more importantly the care home deaths from the over 15000 homes Boris is more focused on lying about death toll and spinning numbers The probable number is hard to tell such is the Boris spin Probably 40,000 A lot more than the 27,000 lies anyway No Just to be absolutely clear: Number of cases and deaths As of 9am on 1 May, there have been 1,023,824 tests, with 122,347 tests on 30 April. 762,279 people have been tested, of whom 177,454 have tested positive. As of 5pm on 30 April, of those who tested positive for coronavirus in the UK, 27,510 have died. This new figure includes deaths in all settings, not just in hospitals. The equivalent figure under the old measure would have been 23,229. https://www.gov.uk/guidance/coronavirus-covid-19-information-for-the-public Hmmm debatable. Why? Cos didn't ONS quote outside deaths to be 6,000+ (on 30th April briefing? My point stands. There's no way the govt has revised the way different settings register deaths... I'll backtrack if someone can source proof, such as all software systems made compatible with the readers such as what trusts have. GPS do not use the same software systems as hospital trusts... Something I have experienced in training. GP surgeries have different systems to each other. They did with the testing figures though. Just so disappointing, it marred a genuinely good go at hitting the target I think that was always going to happen - I'll use the same phrase as others: moved the goalposts. I must admit that they'd use the "hit the target" with regards to capacity. Instead they opened up the request for testing via postal service and even changed the criteria for request (going on the briefing 29th April) - anyone. In my eyes this is arrogance. The tories would have got more respect if they'd held up their hands and then (claimed they) met the target a few days late. They must think the majority of the public is completely dense. Have you read why the home tests and tests to satellite testing locations are only counted when they are sent out? To be honest, the majority I read is literature concerning health. I haven't been too interested in the testing because it's been too little too late. As far as I'm concerned they increased the testing cos they couldn't afford healthcare professionals not in work. Appreciate that . The reason and explanation for the sent out tests being counted the way they are is logical, and is not as suggested, an arrogance. Reading health related literature you will know more than anyone why the testing infrastructure in the U.K. was not equipped to mobilise as quickly as would have been liked. If it were logical the issue would not of been raised in the HSJ. Only logical when the parameters were changed. But, as I said earlier, it's very hard for some people to see through the spin and will defend their team no matter what fouls are committed. When would you count the sent out tests? Genuine question. Erm, when the test result actually reached the lab. Not when it was ordered or on the post. 'Hey Bob how much money have we made this month?'...'a million quid'.....'funny, account says 700,000'.....'oh, I included those who said they were gonna pay as well but hadn't yet'....right oh When it reaches the lab how do they know where it has come from ? Consider the labs will be receiving tests from different sources. Has it come from a sent out home test, a regional test centre, satellite testing unit, hospital etc.. It’s not as straight forward to identify the home test and count it correctly ." That, to me sounds like a potential for counting it twice, no? | |||
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"Just to be clear As of 5 pm on 28 April the UK death toll FOR HOSPITALS ONLY is 26097 It does not include the home deaths or more importantly the care home deaths from the over 15000 homes Boris is more focused on lying about death toll and spinning numbers The probable number is hard to tell such is the Boris spin Probably 40,000 A lot more than the 27,000 lies anyway No Just to be absolutely clear: Number of cases and deaths As of 9am on 1 May, there have been 1,023,824 tests, with 122,347 tests on 30 April. 762,279 people have been tested, of whom 177,454 have tested positive. As of 5pm on 30 April, of those who tested positive for coronavirus in the UK, 27,510 have died. This new figure includes deaths in all settings, not just in hospitals. The equivalent figure under the old measure would have been 23,229. https://www.gov.uk/guidance/coronavirus-covid-19-information-for-the-public Hmmm debatable. Why? Cos didn't ONS quote outside deaths to be 6,000+ (on 30th April briefing? My point stands. There's no way the govt has revised the way different settings register deaths... I'll backtrack if someone can source proof, such as all software systems made compatible with the readers such as what trusts have. GPS do not use the same software systems as hospital trusts... Something I have experienced in training. GP surgeries have different systems to each other. They did with the testing figures though. Just so disappointing, it marred a genuinely good go at hitting the target I think that was always going to happen - I'll use the same phrase as others: moved the goalposts. I must admit that they'd use the "hit the target" with regards to capacity. Instead they opened up the request for testing via postal service and even changed the criteria for request (going on the briefing 29th April) - anyone. In my eyes this is arrogance. The tories would have got more respect if they'd held up their hands and then (claimed they) met the target a few days late. They must think the majority of the public is completely dense. Have you read why the home tests and tests to satellite testing locations are only counted when they are sent out? To be honest, the majority I read is literature concerning health. I haven't been too interested in the testing because it's been too little too late. As far as I'm concerned they increased the testing cos they couldn't afford healthcare professionals not in work. Appreciate that . The reason and explanation for the sent out tests being counted the way they are is logical, and is not as suggested, an arrogance. Reading health related literature you will know more than anyone why the testing infrastructure in the U.K. was not equipped to mobilise as quickly as would have been liked. I watch most of the briefings. And I see a change of goal so that they can meet what they set out to do. I won't always be right as mentally I sometimes switch off during the meetings and I have memory problems due to recovering from a brain infection. I am one of few people who don't mind being proved wrong. My point is they were always going to meet their target by hook or by crook. I think the truth lies in bending their rules/goals/truth. the home tests are an important part of the new testing strategy. there was always gong to be a visible surge due to their increased use. Tracking a home test coming back, identifying when it was sent out and ensuring it’s not getting counted more than once is easily solved by counting it on the day it is sent out. When a test is performed at one of the test centres it’s counted for that day. The method of counting is uniform. How can it be of it was being questioned? Should this not of been made clear at the start? Look, I dunno what it's gonna take for you to admit anything they have done is wrong. Cheltenham?? Is it even possible that they could be stretching the truth a tad even. Are they beyond any criticism in your eyes? Genuine question" As send out tests become more widely used, therefore more and more in the system, there has to be a single uniform way of producing accurate daily numbers. How would these sent out tests be identified and counted when they come back ? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Just to be clear As of 5 pm on 28 April the UK death toll FOR HOSPITALS ONLY is 26097 It does not include the home deaths or more importantly the care home deaths from the over 15000 homes Boris is more focused on lying about death toll and spinning numbers The probable number is hard to tell such is the Boris spin Probably 40,000 A lot more than the 27,000 lies anyway No Just to be absolutely clear: Number of cases and deaths As of 9am on 1 May, there have been 1,023,824 tests, with 122,347 tests on 30 April. 762,279 people have been tested, of whom 177,454 have tested positive. As of 5pm on 30 April, of those who tested positive for coronavirus in the UK, 27,510 have died. This new figure includes deaths in all settings, not just in hospitals. The equivalent figure under the old measure would have been 23,229. https://www.gov.uk/guidance/coronavirus-covid-19-information-for-the-public Hmmm debatable. Why? Cos didn't ONS quote outside deaths to be 6,000+ (on 30th April briefing? My point stands. There's no way the govt has revised the way different settings register deaths... I'll backtrack if someone can source proof, such as all software systems made compatible with the readers such as what trusts have. GPS do not use the same software systems as hospital trusts... Something I have experienced in training. GP surgeries have different systems to each other. They did with the testing figures though. Just so disappointing, it marred a genuinely good go at hitting the target I think that was always going to happen - I'll use the same phrase as others: moved the goalposts. I must admit that they'd use the "hit the target" with regards to capacity. Instead they opened up the request for testing via postal service and even changed the criteria for request (going on the briefing 29th April) - anyone. In my eyes this is arrogance. The tories would have got more respect if they'd held up their hands and then (claimed they) met the target a few days late. They must think the majority of the public is completely dense. Have you read why the home tests and tests to satellite testing locations are only counted when they are sent out? To be honest, the majority I read is literature concerning health. I haven't been too interested in the testing because it's been too little too late. As far as I'm concerned they increased the testing cos they couldn't afford healthcare professionals not in work. Appreciate that . The reason and explanation for the sent out tests being counted the way they are is logical, and is not as suggested, an arrogance. Reading health related literature you will know more than anyone why the testing infrastructure in the U.K. was not equipped to mobilise as quickly as would have been liked. I watch most of the briefings. And I see a change of goal so that they can meet what they set out to do. I won't always be right as mentally I sometimes switch off during the meetings and I have memory problems due to recovering from a brain infection. I am one of few people who don't mind being proved wrong. My point is they were always going to meet their target by hook or by crook. I think the truth lies in bending their rules/goals/truth. the home tests are an important part of the new testing strategy. there was always gong to be a visible surge due to their increased use. Tracking a home test coming back, identifying when it was sent out and ensuring it’s not getting counted more than once is easily solved by counting it on the day it is sent out. When a test is performed at one of the test centres it’s counted for that day. The method of counting is uniform. How can it be of it was being questioned? Should this not of been made clear at the start? Look, I dunno what it's gonna take for you to admit anything they have done is wrong. Cheltenham?? Is it even possible that they could be stretching the truth a tad even. Are they beyond any criticism in your eyes? Genuine question As send out tests become more widely used, therefore more and more in the system, there has to be a single uniform way of producing accurate daily numbers. How would these sent out tests be identified and counted when they come back ?" No criticisms then?? | |||
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"Just to be clear As of 5 pm on 28 April the UK death toll FOR HOSPITALS ONLY is 26097 It does not include the home deaths or more importantly the care home deaths from the over 15000 homes Boris is more focused on lying about death toll and spinning numbers The probable number is hard to tell such is the Boris spin Probably 40,000 A lot more than the 27,000 lies anyway No Just to be absolutely clear: Number of cases and deaths As of 9am on 1 May, there have been 1,023,824 tests, with 122,347 tests on 30 April. 762,279 people have been tested, of whom 177,454 have tested positive. As of 5pm on 30 April, of those who tested positive for coronavirus in the UK, 27,510 have died. This new figure includes deaths in all settings, not just in hospitals. The equivalent figure under the old measure would have been 23,229. https://www.gov.uk/guidance/coronavirus-covid-19-information-for-the-public Hmmm debatable. Why? Cos didn't ONS quote outside deaths to be 6,000+ (on 30th April briefing? My point stands. There's no way the govt has revised the way different settings register deaths... I'll backtrack if someone can source proof, such as all software systems made compatible with the readers such as what trusts have. GPS do not use the same software systems as hospital trusts... Something I have experienced in training. GP surgeries have different systems to each other. They did with the testing figures though. Just so disappointing, it marred a genuinely good go at hitting the target I think that was always going to happen - I'll use the same phrase as others: moved the goalposts. I must admit that they'd use the "hit the target" with regards to capacity. Instead they opened up the request for testing via postal service and even changed the criteria for request (going on the briefing 29th April) - anyone. In my eyes this is arrogance. The tories would have got more respect if they'd held up their hands and then (claimed they) met the target a few days late. They must think the majority of the public is completely dense. Have you read why the home tests and tests to satellite testing locations are only counted when they are sent out? To be honest, the majority I read is literature concerning health. I haven't been too interested in the testing because it's been too little too late. As far as I'm concerned they increased the testing cos they couldn't afford healthcare professionals not in work. Appreciate that . The reason and explanation for the sent out tests being counted the way they are is logical, and is not as suggested, an arrogance. Reading health related literature you will know more than anyone why the testing infrastructure in the U.K. was not equipped to mobilise as quickly as would have been liked. If it were logical the issue would not of been raised in the HSJ. Only logical when the parameters were changed. But, as I said earlier, it's very hard for some people to see through the spin and will defend their team no matter what fouls are committed. When would you count the sent out tests? Genuine question. Reflecting on my original suspicion of the govt classing capacity - this is actually what the postal tests are until they are returned and tested - I love it when I'm right
Not quite
Are the regional test centres tests being counted daily when they have been processed at the lab? I don’t think so. These in person tests are counted on the day the sample is taken. "To me, the only logical way of counting is when tested and digitally recorded. That way spoiled tests don't count. The way you suggest it's done doesn't take into account the number that won't make it to the lab. Therefore it IS merely capacity. | |||
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"Just to be clear As of 5 pm on 28 April the UK death toll FOR HOSPITALS ONLY is 26097 It does not include the home deaths or more importantly the care home deaths from the over 15000 homes Boris is more focused on lying about death toll and spinning numbers The probable number is hard to tell such is the Boris spin Probably 40,000 A lot more than the 27,000 lies anyway No Just to be absolutely clear: Number of cases and deaths As of 9am on 1 May, there have been 1,023,824 tests, with 122,347 tests on 30 April. 762,279 people have been tested, of whom 177,454 have tested positive. As of 5pm on 30 April, of those who tested positive for coronavirus in the UK, 27,510 have died. This new figure includes deaths in all settings, not just in hospitals. The equivalent figure under the old measure would have been 23,229. https://www.gov.uk/guidance/coronavirus-covid-19-information-for-the-public Hmmm debatable. Why? Cos didn't ONS quote outside deaths to be 6,000+ (on 30th April briefing? My point stands. There's no way the govt has revised the way different settings register deaths... I'll backtrack if someone can source proof, such as all software systems made compatible with the readers such as what trusts have. GPS do not use the same software systems as hospital trusts... Something I have experienced in training. GP surgeries have different systems to each other. They did with the testing figures though. Just so disappointing, it marred a genuinely good go at hitting the target I think that was always going to happen - I'll use the same phrase as others: moved the goalposts. I must admit that they'd use the "hit the target" with regards to capacity. Instead they opened up the request for testing via postal service and even changed the criteria for request (going on the briefing 29th April) - anyone. In my eyes this is arrogance. The tories would have got more respect if they'd held up their hands and then (claimed they) met the target a few days late. They must think the majority of the public is completely dense. Have you read why the home tests and tests to satellite testing locations are only counted when they are sent out? To be honest, the majority I read is literature concerning health. I haven't been too interested in the testing because it's been too little too late. As far as I'm concerned they increased the testing cos they couldn't afford healthcare professionals not in work. Appreciate that . The reason and explanation for the sent out tests being counted the way they are is logical, and is not as suggested, an arrogance. Reading health related literature you will know more than anyone why the testing infrastructure in the U.K. was not equipped to mobilise as quickly as would have been liked. If it were logical the issue would not of been raised in the HSJ. Only logical when the parameters were changed. But, as I said earlier, it's very hard for some people to see through the spin and will defend their team no matter what fouls are committed. When would you count the sent out tests? Genuine question. Erm, when the test result actually reached the lab. Not when it was ordered or on the post. 'Hey Bob how much money have we made this month?'...'a million quid'.....'funny, account says 700,000'.....'oh, I included those who said they were gonna pay as well but hadn't yet'....right oh When it reaches the lab how do they know where it has come from ? Consider the labs will be receiving tests from different sources. Has it come from a sent out home test, a regional test centre, satellite testing unit, hospital etc.. It’s not as straight forward to identify the home test and count it correctly . That, to me sounds like a potential for counting it twice, no? " No, it logically allows the test to only be counted once . Consider all tests are being counted on the day they are done in person , sent out etc... Forget about when they reach a lab or a result is produced. The test is counted when it’s performed /sent to a person That unifies the counting method. | |||
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"The UK has the second highest death toll in Europe Eight in the world In spite of a great health system A long litany of his failures has led to this Wasted precious time talking herd immunity while rest of world was locking down,even in lockdown his mixed messages "I will continue to shake hands",way to late in tracking and tracing cases,not,refused 3 tes to buy PPE gear with eu, Cheltenham fiasco,care home failures,and so it continues The numbers of deaths don't lie So what would you have done ? Never given the Toeirs power. Not that the red tories were any better, shame England has such poor politicians. Not given the tories power? Like it was a personal choice. We live in a democratic society and they won the election. How can so few people see that turning this current nightmare into a political slanging match only creates division. Covid-19 doesn't discriminate based on political allegiance. We are all in the same boat so let's just bloody get on with it. Mistakes have been made but mistakes would have been made by anyone as this is unprecedented. But saying 'we are all in it together' just gives those, who make those decisions, a free pass to make more. I for one, don't want answers to score some kind of point, I want scrutiny so more mistakes are not made. If what you have done hasn't worked, it's stupid carrying on the same. You change and learn for a better outcome Politicians absolutely need to be accountable for their decisions. I fully support that. What I don't support is the clear political point scoring and falsely reported 'facts' (that goes both ways). We elect a political party to lead us. Surely in a time of crisis we need them to lead and the accountability comes later. At the moment they seem to spend half their time working on the problem and the other half justifying their actions and defending themselves. I would rather they spent the entire time working on it to get us through this as quickly as possible and answer to the witch-hunt later. No government benefits from a massive loss of lives or a devastated economy. And whilst everyone's circumstances are different and we are effected in different ways, I don't know anyone who is enjoying this current pandemic or isn't worried/effected some way so we are all in this together." It depends on how much faith you have in the accountability comes later section,that's The issue. | |||
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"Another one who only reads headlines and does not understand how the stats are compiled. If you actually read what Boris said about letterboxes you would realise it was in support of muslim women being able to wear what they want. The UK were tracking and tracing from January until the number got too high for this to be sensible to do so. Do a bit of research rather then being a sheep and following the flock Some creative defence that..it was at best a massively insensitive borderline racist comment. And there was also that picannies quote. Not to mention a litany of sexist remarks. Stil The public gets what's the public wants . Let’s not forget the ‘bumboys in tank tops’ remark "Prob been took out of context. | |||
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"Just to be clear As of 5 pm on 28 April the UK death toll FOR HOSPITALS ONLY is 26097 It does not include the home deaths or more importantly the care home deaths from the over 15000 homes Boris is more focused on lying about death toll and spinning numbers The probable number is hard to tell such is the Boris spin Probably 40,000 A lot more than the 27,000 lies anyway No Just to be absolutely clear: Number of cases and deaths As of 9am on 1 May, there have been 1,023,824 tests, with 122,347 tests on 30 April. 762,279 people have been tested, of whom 177,454 have tested positive. As of 5pm on 30 April, of those who tested positive for coronavirus in the UK, 27,510 have died. This new figure includes deaths in all settings, not just in hospitals. The equivalent figure under the old measure would have been 23,229. https://www.gov.uk/guidance/coronavirus-covid-19-information-for-the-public Hmmm debatable. Why? Cos didn't ONS quote outside deaths to be 6,000+ (on 30th April briefing? My point stands. There's no way the govt has revised the way different settings register deaths... I'll backtrack if someone can source proof, such as all software systems made compatible with the readers such as what trusts have. GPS do not use the same software systems as hospital trusts... Something I have experienced in training. GP surgeries have different systems to each other. They did with the testing figures though. Just so disappointing, it marred a genuinely good go at hitting the target I think that was always going to happen - I'll use the same phrase as others: moved the goalposts. I must admit that they'd use the "hit the target" with regards to capacity. Instead they opened up the request for testing via postal service and even changed the criteria for request (going on the briefing 29th April) - anyone. In my eyes this is arrogance. The tories would have got more respect if they'd held up their hands and then (claimed they) met the target a few days late. They must think the majority of the public is completely dense. Have you read why the home tests and tests to satellite testing locations are only counted when they are sent out? To be honest, the majority I read is literature concerning health. I haven't been too interested in the testing because it's been too little too late. As far as I'm concerned they increased the testing cos they couldn't afford healthcare professionals not in work. Appreciate that . The reason and explanation for the sent out tests being counted the way they are is logical, and is not as suggested, an arrogance. Reading health related literature you will know more than anyone why the testing infrastructure in the U.K. was not equipped to mobilise as quickly as would have been liked. If it were logical the issue would not of been raised in the HSJ. Only logical when the parameters were changed. But, as I said earlier, it's very hard for some people to see through the spin and will defend their team no matter what fouls are committed. When would you count the sent out tests? Genuine question. Reflecting on my original suspicion of the govt classing capacity - this is actually what the postal tests are until they are returned and tested - I love it when I'm right
Not quite
Are the regional test centres tests being counted daily when they have been processed at the lab? I don’t think so. These in person tests are counted on the day the sample is taken.
To me, the only logical way of counting is when tested and digitally recorded. That way spoiled tests don't count. The way you suggest it's done doesn't take into account the number that won't make it to the lab. Therefore it IS merely capacity. "For the at home tests surely the capacity is how many they have available in a warehouse ready to be requested? In the same way an in-person test location has the capacity to take 5,000 tests a day. The volume of use for both of these is being measured by how much of that capacity has been utilised on a daily basis . | |||
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"Scrutiny is not allowed, you are a traitor or hate your country of you ask questions. Figures can be given out, goal posts changed but it makes not a jot of difference. The Russia report can be withheld, the Arcuri investigation and holidays be mysteriously paid for. They only shout when it's the other side, otherwise it can always be justified. It will be interesting to see how much this lot get away with, how far they can stretch their followers trust before something gives." It's happened for years..it happened with Iraq.The establishment have a long history of protecting their own. Yet people are convinced when all this is over we are going to get transparency. | |||
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"Scrutiny is not allowed, you are a traitor or hate your country of you ask questions. Figures can be given out, goal posts changed but it makes not a jot of difference. The Russia report can be withheld, the Arcuri investigation and holidays be mysteriously paid for. They only shout when it's the other side, otherwise it can always be justified. It will be interesting to see how much this lot get away with, how far they can stretch their followers trust before something gives. It's happened for years..it happened with Iraq.The establishment have a long history of protecting their own. Yet people are convinced when all this is over we are going to get transparency." I don't think a lot of people want transparency as long as their team is winning, it matters not. | |||
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"Just to be clear As of 5 pm on 28 April the UK death toll FOR HOSPITALS ONLY is 26097 It does not include the home deaths or more importantly the care home deaths from the over 15000 homes Boris is more focused on lying about death toll and spinning numbers The probable number is hard to tell such is the Boris spin Probably 40,000 A lot more than the 27,000 lies anyway No Just to be absolutely clear: Number of cases and deaths As of 9am on 1 May, there have been 1,023,824 tests, with 122,347 tests on 30 April. 762,279 people have been tested, of whom 177,454 have tested positive. As of 5pm on 30 April, of those who tested positive for coronavirus in the UK, 27,510 have died. This new figure includes deaths in all settings, not just in hospitals. The equivalent figure under the old measure would have been 23,229. https://www.gov.uk/guidance/coronavirus-covid-19-information-for-the-public Hmmm debatable. Why? Cos didn't ONS quote outside deaths to be 6,000+ (on 30th April briefing? My point stands. There's no way the govt has revised the way different settings register deaths... I'll backtrack if someone can source proof, such as all software systems made compatible with the readers such as what trusts have. GPS do not use the same software systems as hospital trusts... Something I have experienced in training. GP surgeries have different systems to each other. They did with the testing figures though. Just so disappointing, it marred a genuinely good go at hitting the target I think that was always going to happen - I'll use the same phrase as others: moved the goalposts. I must admit that they'd use the "hit the target" with regards to capacity. Instead they opened up the request for testing via postal service and even changed the criteria for request (going on the briefing 29th April) - anyone. In my eyes this is arrogance. The tories would have got more respect if they'd held up their hands and then (claimed they) met the target a few days late. They must think the majority of the public is completely dense. Have you read why the home tests and tests to satellite testing locations are only counted when they are sent out? To be honest, the majority I read is literature concerning health. I haven't been too interested in the testing because it's been too little too late. As far as I'm concerned they increased the testing cos they couldn't afford healthcare professionals not in work. Appreciate that . The reason and explanation for the sent out tests being counted the way they are is logical, and is not as suggested, an arrogance. Reading health related literature you will know more than anyone why the testing infrastructure in the U.K. was not equipped to mobilise as quickly as would have been liked. If it were logical the issue would not of been raised in the HSJ. Only logical when the parameters were changed. But, as I said earlier, it's very hard for some people to see through the spin and will defend their team no matter what fouls are committed. When would you count the sent out tests? Genuine question. Reflecting on my original suspicion of the govt classing capacity - this is actually what the postal tests are until they are returned and tested - I love it when I'm right
Not quite
Are the regional test centres tests being counted daily when they have been processed at the lab? I don’t think so. These in person tests are counted on the day the sample is taken.
To me, the only logical way of counting is when tested and digitally recorded. That way spoiled tests don't count. The way you suggest it's done doesn't take into account the number that won't make it to the lab. Therefore it IS merely capacity.
For the at home tests surely the capacity is how many they have available in a warehouse ready to be requested?
In the same way an in-person test location has the capacity to take 5,000 tests a day.
The volume of use for both of these is being measured by how much of that capacity has been utilised on a daily basis .
"I think my way is best . The rationale? It's auditable. | |||
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"Scrutiny is not allowed, you are a traitor or hate your country of you ask questions. Figures can be given out, goal posts changed but it makes not a jot of difference. The Russia report can be withheld, the Arcuri investigation and holidays be mysteriously paid for. They only shout when it's the other side, otherwise it can always be justified. It will be interesting to see how much this lot get away with, how far they can stretch their followers trust before something gives. It's happened for years..it happened with Iraq.The establishment have a long history of protecting their own. Yet people are convinced when all this is over we are going to get transparency. I don't think a lot of people want transparency as long as their team is winning, it matters not." True. | |||
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"corbyns would be in hospital now getting a fence post out of hes arse he sat on it that long boris is fab" Bless | |||
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" To me, the only logical way of counting is when tested and digitally recorded. That way spoiled tests don't count. The way you suggest it's done doesn't take into account the number that won't make it to the lab. Therefore it IS merely capacity. For the at home tests surely the capacity is how many they have available in a warehouse ready to be requested? In the same way an in-person test location has the capacity to take 5,000 tests a day. The volume of use for both of these is being measured by how much of that capacity has been utilised on a daily basis . I think my way is best . The rationale? It's auditable. " the process they are using is no less auditable than your suggestion. I would even go as far to suggest the process being used is more reliable in its ability to be easily audited | |||
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"corbyns would be in hospital now getting a fence post out of hes arse he sat on it that long boris is fab" Eh? | |||
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"corbyns would be in hospital now getting a fence post out of hes arse he sat on it that long boris is fab" I'm struggling with that.. | |||
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" To me, the only logical way of counting is when tested and digitally recorded. That way spoiled tests don't count. The way you suggest it's done doesn't take into account the number that won't make it to the lab. Therefore it IS merely capacity. For the at home tests surely the capacity is how many they have available in a warehouse ready to be requested? In the same way an in-person test location has the capacity to take 5,000 tests a day. The volume of use for both of these is being measured by how much of that capacity has been utilised on a daily basis . I think my way is best . The rationale? It's auditable.
the process they are using is no less auditable than your suggestion. I would even go as far to suggest the process being used is more reliable in its ability to be easily audited "We will have to agree to disagree | |||
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" To me, the only logical way of counting is when tested and digitally recorded. That way spoiled tests don't count. The way you suggest it's done doesn't take into account the number that won't make it to the lab. Therefore it IS merely capacity. For the at home tests surely the capacity is how many they have available in a warehouse ready to be requested? In the same way an in-person test location has the capacity to take 5,000 tests a day. The volume of use for both of these is being measured by how much of that capacity has been utilised on a daily basis . I think my way is best . The rationale? It's auditable.
the process they are using is no less auditable than your suggestion. I would even go as far to suggest the process being used is more reliable in its ability to be easily audited
We will have to agree to disagree "I don’t disagree with your suggestion
I would disagree with the claim that the system of counting is flawed
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"Give up, this one is incapable of any kind of notion that this government may have made mistakes. It's unthinkable. That kind of thinking scares the shit out of me. " Incredible levels of arrogance shown there. As though you are in some way making a difference by challenging the government on a swingers forum. You keep fighting the good fight. Stathes will be but for you after all of this no doubt. If you actually read my post I acknowledge mistakes have been made. I just think it's incredibly foolish to think we wouldn't have mistakes being made regardless of who is in power. Nobody would get this situation absolutely spot on and it's impossible to please everyone. | |||
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"Give up, this one is incapable of any kind of notion that this government may have made mistakes. It's unthinkable. That kind of thinking scares the shit out of me. Incredible levels of arrogance shown there. As though you are in some way making a difference by challenging the government on a swingers forum. You keep fighting the good fight. Stathes will be but for you after all of this no doubt. If you actually read my post I acknowledge mistakes have been made. I just think it's incredibly foolish to think we wouldn't have mistakes being made regardless of who is in power. Nobody would get this situation absolutely spot on and it's impossible to please everyone. " *statues will be built | |||
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"Give up, this one is incapable of any kind of notion that this government may have made mistakes. It's unthinkable. That kind of thinking scares the shit out of me. Incredible levels of arrogance shown there. As though you are in some way making a difference by challenging the government on a swingers forum. You keep fighting the good fight. Stathes will be but for you after all of this no doubt. If you actually read my post I acknowledge mistakes have been made. I just think it's incredibly foolish to think we wouldn't have mistakes being made regardless of who is in power. Nobody would get this situation absolutely spot on and it's impossible to please everyone. " I dunno, Vietnam haven't done bad. Not arrogance, just don't seem why so many want to shut down questions. Christ,we live in a democracy,it's why we have an opposition party. But, if you don't want questions asked, don't listen to them then. | |||
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"I dress to think what we would have done if labour had been in power as we would have already maxed out the countries borrowing "You can dress how you like, but that aside, this kind of retort doesn't come from someone reasoned in debate. We're in a crisis and will suffer no matter who's in charge - deal with and stop deflecting. Like it or lump we have one govt, what a different govt would be like is a damned moot point. | |||
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"Just to be clear As of 5 pm on 28 April the UK death toll FOR HOSPITALS ONLY is 26097 It does not include the home deaths or more importantly the care home deaths from the over 15000 homes Boris is more focused on lying about death toll and spinning numbers The probable number is hard to tell such is the Boris spin Probably 40,000 A lot more than the 27,000 lies anyway No Just to be absolutely clear: Number of cases and deaths As of 9am on 1 May, there have been 1,023,824 tests, with 122,347 tests on 30 April. 762,279 people have been tested, of whom 177,454 have tested positive. As of 5pm on 30 April, of those who tested positive for coronavirus in the UK, 27,510 have died. This new figure includes deaths in all settings, not just in hospitals. The equivalent figure under the old measure would have been 23,229. https://www.gov.uk/guidance/coronavirus-covid-19-information-for-the-public Hmmm debatable. Why? Cos didn't ONS quote outside deaths to be 6,000+ (on 30th April briefing? My point stands. There's no way the govt has revised the way different settings register deaths... I'll backtrack if someone can source proof, such as all software systems made compatible with the readers such as what trusts have. GPS do not use the same software systems as hospital trusts... Something I have experienced in training. GP surgeries have different systems to each other. They did with the testing figures though. Just so disappointing, it marred a genuinely good go at hitting the target I think that was always going to happen - I'll use the same phrase as others: moved the goalposts. I must admit that they'd use the "hit the target" with regards to capacity. Instead they opened up the request for testing via postal service and even changed the criteria for request (going on the briefing 29th April) - anyone. In my eyes this is arrogance. The tories would have got more respect if they'd held up their hands and then (claimed they) met the target a few days late. They must think the majority of the public is completely dense. " Well considering the majority they currently hold, I think they do. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Just to be clear As of 5 pm on 28 April the UK death toll FOR HOSPITALS ONLY is 26097 It does not include the home deaths or more importantly the care home deaths from the over 15000 homes Boris is more focused on lying about death toll and spinning numbers The probable number is hard to tell such is the Boris spin Probably 40,000 A lot more than the 27,000 lies anyway No Just to be absolutely clear: Number of cases and deaths As of 9am on 1 May, there have been 1,023,824 tests, with 122,347 tests on 30 April. 762,279 people have been tested, of whom 177,454 have tested positive. As of 5pm on 30 April, of those who tested positive for coronavirus in the UK, 27,510 have died. This new figure includes deaths in all settings, not just in hospitals. The equivalent figure under the old measure would have been 23,229. https://www.gov.uk/guidance/coronavirus-covid-19-information-for-the-public Hmmm debatable. Why? Cos didn't ONS quote outside deaths to be 6,000+ (on 30th April briefing? My point stands. There's no way the govt has revised the way different settings register deaths... I'll backtrack if someone can source proof, such as all software systems made compatible with the readers such as what trusts have. GPS do not use the same software systems as hospital trusts... Something I have experienced in training. GP surgeries have different systems to each other. They did with the testing figures though. Just so disappointing, it marred a genuinely good go at hitting the target I think that was always going to happen - I'll use the same phrase as others: moved the goalposts. I must admit that they'd use the "hit the target" with regards to capacity. Instead they opened up the request for testing via postal service and even changed the criteria for request (going on the briefing 29th April) - anyone. In my eyes this is arrogance. The tories would have got more respect if they'd held up their hands and then (claimed they) met the target a few days late. They must think the majority of the public is completely dense. Well considering the majority they currently hold, I think they do. "To be fair it was a one issue election. | |||
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"I dress to think what we would have done if labour had been in power as we would have already maxed out the countries borrowing
You can dress how you like, but that aside, this kind of retort doesn't come from someone reasoned in debate. We're in a crisis and will suffer no matter who's in charge - deal with and stop deflecting. Like it or lump we have one govt, what a different govt would be like is a damned moot point. "Not really as we would have not been able to borrow as much because the Labour Party would have already spent it all | |||
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"I dress to think what we would have done if labour had been in power as we would have already maxed out the countries borrowing
You can dress how you like, but that aside, this kind of retort doesn't come from someone reasoned in debate. We're in a crisis and will suffer no matter who's in charge - deal with and stop deflecting. Like it or lump we have one govt, what a different govt would be like is a damned moot point.
Not really as we would have not been able to borrow as much because the Labour Party would have already spent it all "Do you have proof of this ? | |||
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"I dress to think what we would have done if labour had been in power as we would have already maxed out the countries borrowing
You can dress how you like, but that aside, this kind of retort doesn't come from someone reasoned in debate. We're in a crisis and will suffer no matter who's in charge - deal with and stop deflecting. Like it or lump we have one govt, what a different govt would be like is a damned moot point.
Not really as we would have not been able to borrow as much because the Labour Party would have already spent it all
Do you have proof of this ?"Why would I need proof ? The Labour Party spent it all last time left the cupboards bare | |||
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"I dress to think what we would have done if labour had been in power as we would have already maxed out the countries borrowing
You can dress how you like, but that aside, this kind of retort doesn't come from someone reasoned in debate. We're in a crisis and will suffer no matter who's in charge - deal with and stop deflecting. Like it or lump we have one govt, what a different govt would be like is a damned moot point.
Not really as we would have not been able to borrow as much because the Labour Party would have already spent it all
Do you have proof of this ?
Why would I need proof ?
The Labour Party spent it all last time left the cupboards bare "Well they didnt but nice try. | |||
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"I dress to think what we would have done if labour had been in power as we would have already maxed out the countries borrowing
You can dress how you like, but that aside, this kind of retort doesn't come from someone reasoned in debate. We're in a crisis and will suffer no matter who's in charge - deal with and stop deflecting. Like it or lump we have one govt, what a different govt would be like is a damned moot point.
Not really as we would have not been able to borrow as much because the Labour Party would have already spent it all
Do you have proof of this ?
Why would I need proof ?
The Labour Party spent it all last time left the cupboards bare
Well they didnt but nice try."So the note they left in the treasury saying there was no money left was fake news then | |||
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"I dress to think what we would have done if labour had been in power as we would have already maxed out the countries borrowing
You can dress how you like, but that aside, this kind of retort doesn't come from someone reasoned in debate. We're in a crisis and will suffer no matter who's in charge - deal with and stop deflecting. Like it or lump we have one govt, what a different govt would be like is a damned moot point.
Not really as we would have not been able to borrow as much because the Labour Party would have already spent it all
Do you have proof of this ?
Why would I need proof ?
The Labour Party spent it all last time left the cupboards bare
Well they didnt but nice try.
So the note they left in the treasury saying there was no money left was fake news then "Who left the note? | |||
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"I dress to think what we would have done if labour had been in power as we would have already maxed out the countries borrowing
You can dress how you like, but that aside, this kind of retort doesn't come from someone reasoned in debate. We're in a crisis and will suffer no matter who's in charge - deal with and stop deflecting. Like it or lump we have one govt, what a different govt would be like is a damned moot point.
Not really as we would have not been able to borrow as much because the Labour Party would have already spent it all
Do you have proof of this ?
Why would I need proof ?
The Labour Party spent it all last time left the cupboards bare
Well they didnt but nice try.
So the note they left in the treasury saying there was no money left was fake news then "I'm fairly sure we have had this debate before. There was something called the financial crash And the bank bailout Cause a world wide recession get bailed out and let them take the blame. Not soft are they? | |||
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"I dress to think what we would have done if labour had been in power as we would have already maxed out the countries borrowing
You can dress how you like, but that aside, this kind of retort doesn't come from someone reasoned in debate. We're in a crisis and will suffer no matter who's in charge - deal with and stop deflecting. Like it or lump we have one govt, what a different govt would be like is a damned moot point.
Not really as we would have not been able to borrow as much because the Labour Party would have already spent it all
Do you have proof of this ?
Why would I need proof ?
The Labour Party spent it all last time left the cupboards bare
Well they didnt but nice try.
So the note they left in the treasury saying there was no money left was fake news then
I'm fairly sure we have had this debate before.
There was something called the financial crash
And the bank bailout
Cause a world wide recession get bailed out and let them take the blame.
Not soft are they?"It was Corbyns fault. | |||
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"The note was an in joke Sadly some people have took it literally " Yes it was similar to a note left by Tory Reginald Maudling to his Labour successor James Callaghan in 1964: "Good luck, old cock ... Sorry to leave it in such a mess." | |||
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"The note was an in joke Sadly some people have took it literally Yes it was similar to a note left by Tory Reginald Maudling to his Labour successor James Callaghan in 1964: "Good luck, old cock ... Sorry to leave it in such a mess." "Yep it was an in house joke | |||
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"The note was an in joke Sadly some people have took it literally " “Yet “the note” was not just stupid. It was offensive. That’s why it has made so many people so angry. And that why it was so wrong to write.” “ “How could you do something so crass? And so bloody offensive?” - I’ve asked myself that question every day for five years and believe me, every day I have burnt with the shame of it. Nowhere more than when standing on doorsteps with good comrades, listening to voters demanding to know what I thought I was playing at. It was always excruciating.” Liam Byrne - 9 May 2015 writing in The Guardian | |||
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"I dress to think what we would have done if labour had been in power as we would have already maxed out the countries borrowing
You can dress how you like, but that aside, this kind of retort doesn't come from someone reasoned in debate. We're in a crisis and will suffer no matter who's in charge - deal with and stop deflecting. Like it or lump we have one govt, what a different govt would be like is a damned moot point.
Not really as we would have not been able to borrow as much because the Labour Party would have already spent it all
Do you have proof of this ?
Why would I need proof ?
The Labour Party spent it all last time left the cupboards bare
Well they didnt but nice try.
So the note they left in the treasury saying there was no money left was fake news then
I'm fairly sure we have had this debate before.
There was something called the financial crash
And the bank bailout
Cause a world wide recession get bailed out and let them take the blame.
Not soft are they?
It was Corbyns fault. "You're just trolling now... | |||
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"The note was an in joke Sadly some people have took it literally “Yet “the note” was not just stupid. It was offensive. That’s why it has made so many people so angry. And that why it was so wrong to write.” “ “How could you do something so crass? And so bloody offensive?” - I’ve asked myself that question every day for five years and believe me, every day I have burnt with the shame of it. Nowhere more than when standing on doorsteps with good comrades, listening to voters demanding to know what I thought I was playing at. It was always excruciating.” Liam Byrne - 9 May 2015 writing in The Guardian " Byrne said the message was meant in jest. "My letter was a joke, from one chief secretary to another," he said. "I do hope David Laws's sense of humour wasn't another casualty of the coalition deal." Liam Byrne Guardian 2010 | |||
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"I dress to think what we would have done if labour had been in power as we would have already maxed out the countries borrowing
You can dress how you like, but that aside, this kind of retort doesn't come from someone reasoned in debate. We're in a crisis and will suffer no matter who's in charge - deal with and stop deflecting. Like it or lump we have one govt, what a different govt would be like is a damned moot point.
Not really as we would have not been able to borrow as much because the Labour Party would have already spent it all
Do you have proof of this ?
Why would I need proof ?
The Labour Party spent it all last time left the cupboards bare
Well they didnt but nice try.
So the note they left in the treasury saying there was no money left was fake news then
I'm fairly sure we have had this debate before.
There was something called the financial crash
And the bank bailout
Cause a world wide recession get bailed out and let them take the blame.
Not soft are they?
It was Corbyns fault.
You're just trolling now... "It was a joke, I think we are still allowed to tell them on here | |||
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"The note was an in joke Sadly some people have took it literally “Yet “the note” was not just stupid. It was offensive. That’s why it has made so many people so angry. And that why it was so wrong to write.” “ “How could you do something so crass? And so bloody offensive?” - I’ve asked myself that question every day for five years and believe me, every day I have burnt with the shame of it. Nowhere more than when standing on doorsteps with good comrades, listening to voters demanding to know what I thought I was playing at. It was always excruciating.” Liam Byrne - 9 May 2015 writing in The Guardian " https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/liam-byrne-defends-infamous-no-13865585.amp | |||
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"The note was an in joke Sadly some people have took it literally “Yet “the note” was not just stupid. It was offensive. That’s why it has made so many people so angry. And that why it was so wrong to write.” “ “How could you do something so crass? And so bloody offensive?” - I’ve asked myself that question every day for five years and believe me, every day I have burnt with the shame of it. Nowhere more than when standing on doorsteps with good comrades, listening to voters demanding to know what I thought I was playing at. It was always excruciating.” Liam Byrne - 9 May 2015 writing in The Guardian Byrne said the message was meant in jest. "My letter was a joke, from one chief secretary to another," he said. "I do hope David Laws's sense of humour wasn't another casualty of the coalition deal." Liam Byrne Guardian 2010 " 5 years later he thought better of his 2010 comments | |||
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"The note was an in joke Sadly some people have took it literally “Yet “the note” was not just stupid. It was offensive. That’s why it has made so many people so angry. And that why it was so wrong to write.” “ “How could you do something so crass? And so bloody offensive?” - I’ve asked myself that question every day for five years and believe me, every day I have burnt with the shame of it. Nowhere more than when standing on doorsteps with good comrades, listening to voters demanding to know what I thought I was playing at. It was always excruciating.” Liam Byrne - 9 May 2015 writing in The Guardian Byrne said the message was meant in jest. "My letter was a joke, from one chief secretary to another," he said. "I do hope David Laws's sense of humour wasn't another casualty of the coalition deal." Liam Byrne Guardian 2010 5 years later he thought better of his 2010 comments "Try his commons response 2019 
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/liam-byrne-defends-infamous-no-13865585.amp | |||
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"The note was an in joke Sadly some people have took it literally “Yet “the note” was not just stupid. It was offensive. That’s why it has made so many people so angry. And that why it was so wrong to write.” “ “How could you do something so crass? And so bloody offensive?” - I’ve asked myself that question every day for five years and believe me, every day I have burnt with the shame of it. Nowhere more than when standing on doorsteps with good comrades, listening to voters demanding to know what I thought I was playing at. It was always excruciating.” Liam Byrne - 9 May 2015 writing in The Guardian Byrne said the message was meant in jest. "My letter was a joke, from one chief secretary to another," he said. "I do hope David Laws's sense of humour wasn't another casualty of the coalition deal." Liam Byrne Guardian 2010 5 years later he thought better of his 2010 comments
Try his commons response 2019
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/liam-byrne-defends-infamous-no-13865585.amp"“He was naive to honour a tradition .” Anything else contradicting his comments in 2015? | |||
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"The note was an in joke Sadly some people have took it literally “Yet “the note” was not just stupid. It was offensive. That’s why it has made so many people so angry. And that why it was so wrong to write.” “ “How could you do something so crass? And so bloody offensive?” - I’ve asked myself that question every day for five years and believe me, every day I have burnt with the shame of it. Nowhere more than when standing on doorsteps with good comrades, listening to voters demanding to know what I thought I was playing at. It was always excruciating.” Liam Byrne - 9 May 2015 writing in The Guardian Byrne said the message was meant in jest. "My letter was a joke, from one chief secretary to another," he said. "I do hope David Laws's sense of humour wasn't another casualty of the coalition deal." Liam Byrne Guardian 2010 5 years later he thought better of his 2010 comments
Try his commons response 2019
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/liam-byrne-defends-infamous-no-13865585.amp
“He was naive to honour a tradition .”
Anything else contradicting his comments in 2015?"You obviously didn’t read the article, or perhaps you only noticed the parts to fit your agenda. Of course he now regrets leaving the note as he thought that the incoming minister would have a sense of humour, it was a tradition that went back to Churchill . I guess there is no place for humour in politics anymore | |||
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"The note was an in joke Sadly some people have took it literally “Yet “the note” was not just stupid. It was offensive. That’s why it has made so many people so angry. And that why it was so wrong to write.” “ “How could you do something so crass? And so bloody offensive?” - I’ve asked myself that question every day for five years and believe me, every day I have burnt with the shame of it. Nowhere more than when standing on doorsteps with good comrades, listening to voters demanding to know what I thought I was playing at. It was always excruciating.” Liam Byrne - 9 May 2015 writing in The Guardian " You sure do have a funny definition of offensive. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The note was an in joke Sadly some people have took it literally “Yet “the note” was not just stupid. It was offensive. That’s why it has made so many people so angry. And that why it was so wrong to write.” “ “How could you do something so crass? And so bloody offensive?” - I’ve asked myself that question every day for five years and believe me, every day I have burnt with the shame of it. Nowhere more than when standing on doorsteps with good comrades, listening to voters demanding to know what I thought I was playing at. It was always excruciating.” Liam Byrne - 9 May 2015 writing in The Guardian Byrne said the message was meant in jest. "My letter was a joke, from one chief secretary to another," he said. "I do hope David Laws's sense of humour wasn't another casualty of the coalition deal." Liam Byrne Guardian 2010 5 years later he thought better of his 2010 comments
Try his commons response 2019
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/liam-byrne-defends-infamous-no-13865585.amp
“He was naive to honour a tradition .”
Anything else contradicting his comments in 2015?
You obviously didn’t read the article, or perhaps you only noticed the parts to fit your agenda. Of course he now regrets leaving the note as he thought that the incoming minister would have a sense of humour, it was a tradition that went back to Churchill . I guess there is no place for humour in politics anymore "I read it, and listened to the 2019 comments. It’s quite clear | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The note was an in joke Sadly some people have took it literally “Yet “the note” was not just stupid. It was offensive. That’s why it has made so many people so angry. And that why it was so wrong to write.” “ “How could you do something so crass? And so bloody offensive?” - I’ve asked myself that question every day for five years and believe me, every day I have burnt with the shame of it. Nowhere more than when standing on doorsteps with good comrades, listening to voters demanding to know what I thought I was playing at. It was always excruciating.” Liam Byrne - 9 May 2015 writing in The Guardian Byrne said the message was meant in jest. "My letter was a joke, from one chief secretary to another," he said. "I do hope David Laws's sense of humour wasn't another casualty of the coalition deal." Liam Byrne Guardian 2010 5 years later he thought better of his 2010 comments
Try his commons response 2019
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/liam-byrne-defends-infamous-no-13865585.amp
“He was naive to honour a tradition .”
Anything else contradicting his comments in 2015?
You obviously didn’t read the article, or perhaps you only noticed the parts to fit your agenda. Of course he now regrets leaving the note as he thought that the incoming minister would have a sense of humour, it was a tradition that went back to Churchill . I guess there is no place for humour in politics anymore
I read it, and listened to the 2019 comments.
It’s quite clear "Only to those who see what they want to see and ignore the rest . So, can you clarify? Was it a tradition dating back to Churchill ? Was it ment as as a joke? Was Liam Byrne the first treasury secretary to leave a note to the new incumbent to the job? Just yes and no answers please . | |||
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"I dress to think what we would have done if labour had been in power as we would have already maxed out the countries borrowing
You can dress how you like, but that aside, this kind of retort doesn't come from someone reasoned in debate. We're in a crisis and will suffer no matter who's in charge - deal with and stop deflecting. Like it or lump we have one govt, what a different govt would be like is a damned moot point.
Not really as we would have not been able to borrow as much because the Labour Party would have already spent it all "You're obviously a very special person with mutant x powers of being able to see an alternative reality. I bow to those special powers. . . . . . Me? Sarcastic? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The note was an in joke Sadly some people have took it literally “Yet “the note” was not just stupid. It was offensive. That’s why it has made so many people so angry. And that why it was so wrong to write.” “ “How could you do something so crass? And so bloody offensive?” - I’ve asked myself that question every day for five years and believe me, every day I have burnt with the shame of it. Nowhere more than when standing on doorsteps with good comrades, listening to voters demanding to know what I thought I was playing at. It was always excruciating.” Liam Byrne - 9 May 2015 writing in The Guardian Byrne said the message was meant in jest. "My letter was a joke, from one chief secretary to another," he said. "I do hope David Laws's sense of humour wasn't another casualty of the coalition deal." Liam Byrne Guardian 2010 5 years later he thought better of his 2010 comments
Try his commons response 2019
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/liam-byrne-defends-infamous-no-13865585.amp
“He was naive to honour a tradition .”
Anything else contradicting his comments in 2015?
You obviously didn’t read the article, or perhaps you only noticed the parts to fit your agenda. Of course he now regrets leaving the note as he thought that the incoming minister would have a sense of humour, it was a tradition that went back to Churchill . I guess there is no place for humour in politics anymore
I read it, and listened to the 2019 comments.
It’s quite clear
Only to those who see what they want to see and ignore the rest . So, can you clarify? Was it a tradition dating back to Churchill ? Was it ment as as a joke? Was Liam Byrne the first treasury secretary to leave a note to the new incumbent to the job? Just yes and no answers please . "Tradition - yes Joke? - in 2010 he said yes . 2015 he said it was offensive First treasury sec to leave a note - No You agree with that or will you ignore his 2015 comments ? | |||
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" Aaaaaaand we leave it here "Spoilsport ... | |||
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