FabSwingers.com > Forums > Politics > Have Sweden got it right
Have Sweden got it right
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"With countries in lockdown and numbers still rocketing...has Sweden done the right thing in doing little and carrying on ...." Looking that way | |||
"With countries in lockdown and numbers still rocketing...has Sweden done the right thing in doing little and carrying on ...." I thought we were going to follow their way... disappointed we didn't but only time will tell x | |||
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"I come from sweden and yes they have got it right, you should not panic and keep it as business as usual. I just watched the sky news interview and he is spot on "UK would of done the same thing if it wasnt for that computer simulated report there. | |||
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"With countries in lockdown and numbers still rocketing...has Sweden done the right thing in doing little and carrying on ...." Their deaths from covid numbers aren't too dissimilar to the UK's adjusting for population differences. | |||
"Interesting point luv2. Sweden population cica 10 million. Norway circa 5.5 million. Israel circa 8.5 million. Could have an effect on the number of cases but the numbers being reported from Norway and Israel still look low in comparison." Israel have troops on the street to ensure lockdown | |||
"The UK is ranked 32 in the most densely populated countries: Sweden is 159. I would think that most of Sweden's problems are in the urban areas. " This | |||
"Interesting point luv2. Sweden population cica 10 million. Norway circa 5.5 million. Israel circa 8.5 million. Could have an effect on the number of cases but the numbers being reported from Norway and Israel still look low in comparison." ...and this | |||
"With countries in lockdown and numbers still rocketing...has Sweden done the right thing in doing little and carrying on .... Their deaths from covid numbers aren't too dissimilar to the UK's adjusting for population differences. " ...and this | |||
"Interesting point luv2. Sweden population cica 10 million. Norway circa 5.5 million. Israel circa 8.5 million. Could have an effect on the number of cases but the numbers being reported from Norway and Israel still look low in comparison. Israel have troops on the street to ensure lockdown " ...and this | |||
The Swedes are also not especially tactile nor do generations mix so regularly and closely as in Italy a MD Spain.
Japan was partially shut down. Not any longer.
It's a mixture of cultural and demographic reasons.
What works for one situation will not necessarily work for another. | |||
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"The UK is ranked 32 in the most densely populated countries: Sweden is 159. I would think that most of Sweden's problems are in the urban areas. " This
There is no single solution for all countries. Factors like population density, social behaviour and medical infrastructure come into picture. Sweden doesn't have a densely packed place like London. | |||
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"Bombings as usual?" It sounds like you are trying to just say something controversial. Why do that?  | |||
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"Yes they have the UK will take 20 years or more to pay this debt back no one working ! No moneys for NHS or anything else... "I'm sorry but as many have eluded to on here I just don't think Sweden's model would work here. Largely due to population density and cultural habits. The Swedes pay high taxes to endure their healthcare service is well provisioned. We don't. The Swedes understand that if you want a right to good social healthcare you have a responsibly to ensure you keep yourself fit and healthy all year round. Sadly, we don't get that right Vs responsibility. The Swedes understand that being sensible in a outbreak means being sensible. Not ignoring symptoms and trying to get another night out crammed in with the guys/girls before lockdown. Also, bar Stockholm and Malmø, anyone know any significant Swedish cities? Like actually large metropolitan areas, cause god knows, the South East and hone counties up to Birmingham and basically London's commuter belt if you look at population movement. | |||
"I do a lot of work in Sweden. By and large, its inhabitants are a lot fitter and healthier in the UK. Free" Yes we eat really good food in sweden and exersize alot, we like lots of fish as well | |||
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"With any luck this might all over once they admit to fucking up the statistical analysis. How embarrassing will that be? There is an old adage in Statistical modelling "rubbish in - rubbish out".. irrespective how clever the bit in between is! I know bugger all about medicine, but I know a bit about numbers and there is something very fishy about the data sets. It simply cannot affect so many people in one country but not in another. It doesn't stand the test of common sense. A bit of background reading shows that there might be some of flawed thinking going on. The Spectator has some expert opinions that are worth reading. They have a month's free offer on at the moment. Interesting the Telegraph and the Guardian carried articles yesterday that put forward the view that there were other ways of interpreting the data. 28_03_2020 Spectator How deadly is the coronavirus? It’s still far from clear https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/The-evidence-on-Covid-19-is-not-as-clear-as-we-think 29_03_2020 Spectator How to understand – and report – figures for ‘Covid deaths’ https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/how-to-understand-and-report-figures-for-covid-19-deaths- 03_04_2020 Daily Telegraph Coronavirus: Why the Swedish experiment could prove Britain wrong https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/04/03/coronavirus-swedish-experiment-could-prove-britain-wrong/ 04_04_2020 Daily Telegraph Making sense of coronavirus data https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/04/04/making-sense-coronavirus-data-will-know-right-ethical-calls/ 04_04_2020 Spectator No lockdown, please, we’re Swedish https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/no-lockdown-please-w-re-swedish 04_04_2020 Spectator Don’t be deceived by Covid stats – we know a lot less than the numbers suggest. We risk being misled by bad data https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/dont-be-deceived-by-covid-stats-we-know-a-lot-less-than-the-numbers-suggest 04_04_2020 Spectator How many people have Covid-19 and don’t even know it? https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/how-many-people-have-covid-19-and-don-t-even-know-it- 5_04_2020 Simon Jenkins Guardian - Was I wrong about coronavirus? Even the world's best scientists can't tell me https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/apr/02/wrong-coronavirus-world-scientists-optimism-experts I know it is hard to think clearly under pressure, but is it possible someone will wake up in a minute and say "the emperor's wearing no clothes". As soon as they have a reliable anti-virus test they must take an appropriate sample of 1000 "well" individuals and see how many of them already had the virus. From the small amount of data available that focuses on that aspect, my money is on discovering that a large proportion of us have already had it, without symptoms and it may be less dangerous than they have fooled themselves into believing. Dying with Corona virus, and dying from Corona virus are very, very different things indeed. I note there is no data suggesting total deaths are rising, and reading those who say they know - they say the basis for gathering the data has altered, and if you applied the new method of data collection to influenza, you'd get exactly the same result. Anyway, if our Government are right and the Swedish Government are wrong there are going be an awful lot of dead people in Sweden. I hold the view that what is going on here and in many countries is causing devastation to industry and commerce, which may lead to the debasement of our currency and the collapse of our monetary and industrial system. One final thing. Where is any risk analysis of the consequences of this lock down? How many deaths due to other treatments not being available. Consequences of a fucked economy etc? My daughter lives on a narrow boat and has (at times) lived without water on tap and electric light. How will most react when the money runs out and the basic services start to falter? Anyway, that is my four pennies worth..lol I can't wait to get back to the importance of enjoying our lives with a bit of rude free and easy playful sex. M xx " You have pretty much ignored everything in the thread about Swedish behaviour and population density and social mixing in the rest of the thread. The Telegraph and many of the Spectator articles do the same due to their libertarian and pro-capital ideological positions. It is very possible that retrospectively over a year the death rate will be only slightly higher than otherwise. The problem is our healthcare system being overwhelmed meaning that those who would otherwise have received emergency treatment will not receive it. Many people will not receive timely treatment for longer term conditions which may become chronic or terminal such as cancer. Unless you are saying that those with Coronavirus should not be treated? This is thinking clearly under pressure. This is thinking through what the numbers mean and why they are different. They very much can be from one to another depending on behaviour. You may doubt numbers from China, but South Korea and Taiwan? | |||
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"Did you read any of the articles?" Yes, other than the Telegraph which I am not going to waste money on looking behind the paywall. It stopped being a newspaper some time ago. None of those articles say anything other than we don't have all the data yet. That is obvious. Nothing implies that Sweden or anyone else's control model will work unless behaviour and the environment are the same. It's no difference to the nonsense been written about us following the same economic model as Singapore or education model as China. Do any of the articles address the points about Swedish behaviour, demographics, population density or health spending? Most of them don't even indicate that the current UK approach is in error. Saying that we are making decisions based on incomplete data does not change the fact that decisions still have to be made and we can see what has been successful so far. Ultimately we need mass vaccination or herd immunity. If the latter approach is taken it has to be achieved at a rate that our healthcare service can cope with. It's our healthcare service that we are safeguarding more than individual people. If you look after the first the second will be at least adequate. | |||
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"I'm sure you are right again number 1" How about you contribute rather than follow me around? #creepystalker | |||
"I'm sure you are right again number 1 How about you contribute rather than follow me around? #creepystalker" are you dancing to his tune to?! Beautiful! You'll make me jealous  | |||
"I'm sure you are right again number 1 How about you contribute rather than follow me around? #creepystalker are you dancing to his tune to?! Beautiful! You'll make me jealous "Some people get a hit from the most mundane things
#needtomanipulate | |||
"I'm sure you are right again number 1 How about you contribute rather than follow me around? #creepystalker are you dancing to his tune to?! Beautiful! You'll make me jealous
Some people get a hit from the most mundane things
#needtomanipulate"Like cheating on their wives? | |||
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"I'm sure you are right again number 1 How about you contribute rather than follow me around? #creepystalker are you dancing to his tune to?! Beautiful! You'll make me jealous
Some people get a hit from the most mundane things
#needtomanipulate
Like cheating on their wives?"Ta daa! I'm not manipulating anyone or getting some satisfaction in trying to control the actions of someone else Looking at my profile to find some unrelated information to try and use against me. Pretty creepy. Definitely an attempt at a personal attack. Pretty desperate too | |||
"I'm sure you are right again number 1 How about you contribute rather than follow me around? #creepystalker are you dancing to his tune to?! Beautiful! You'll make me jealous
Some people get a hit from the most mundane things
#needtomanipulate
Like cheating on their wives?
Ta daa!
I'm not manipulating anyone or getting some satisfaction in trying to control the actions of someone else
Looking at my profile to find some unrelated information to try and use against me.
Pretty creepy. Definitely an attempt at a personal attack. Pretty desperate too "Just an observation. And believe me, i haven't been anywhere near your profile. | |||
"I'm sure you are right again number 1 How about you contribute rather than follow me around? #creepystalker are you dancing to his tune to?! Beautiful! You'll make me jealous
Some people get a hit from the most mundane things
#needtomanipulate
Like cheating on their wives?
Ta daa!
I'm not manipulating anyone or getting some satisfaction in trying to control the actions of someone else
Looking at my profile to find some unrelated information to try and use against me.
Pretty creepy. Definitely an attempt at a personal attack. Pretty desperate too
Just an observation. And believe me, i haven't been anywhere near your profile. "An observation for who's benefit and with your information from where? You don't like being called out, clearly.what an unpleasant way to react though  | |||
"I'm sure you are right again number 1 How about you contribute rather than follow me around? #creepystalker are you dancing to his tune to?! Beautiful! You'll make me jealous
Some people get a hit from the most mundane things
#needtomanipulate
Like cheating on their wives?
Ta daa!
I'm not manipulating anyone or getting some satisfaction in trying to control the actions of someone else
Looking at my profile to find some unrelated information to try and use against me.
Pretty creepy. Definitely an attempt at a personal attack. Pretty desperate too
Just an observation. And believe me, i haven't been anywhere near your profile.
An observation for who's benefit and with your information from where?
You don't like being called out, clearly.what an unpleasant way to react though "You don't like being called out, clearly.what an unpleasant thing to do though. #hypocrite | |||
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"Easyuk, there is little point in taking this further with someone who clearly thinks he knows all the answers due to some inane belief in his own thoughts, which are well off-piste . However, for the benefit of others I will respond. This thread asks the question “Have Sweden got it right” and goes on “With countries in lockdown and numbers still rocketing...has Sweden done the right thing in doing little and carrying on”. Consequently, I won’t accept criticism from you about not addressing the issues, as you appear to be someone who has nothing to offer to the debate other than the need to sound off. As two of the articles are entitled “Why the Swedish experiment could prove Britain wrong” and “No lock-down please we are Swedish” they could hardly be more germane to the subject. Simon Jenkins’ article in the Guardian is called “Was I wrong about coronavirus? Even the world's best scientists can't tell me”. Clearly, rather than doing any research for his piece he should have simply asked you, as you clearly think you know all the answers! Instead he wrote “Oxford University team led by Sunetra Gupta, a professor of theoretical epidemiology, pointed out that figures on the morbidity of Covid-19 were virtually meaningless in the absence of testing. They suggested that half the population could have had already it mildly, which, if true, would imply the death rate was far lower than thought.” The article entitled “How deadly is coronavirus? It's still far from clear” was written by John Lee a Professor of Pathology and NHS consultant pathologist, who has spent most of his adult life in healthcare and science – fields which, he says “all too often, are characterised by doubt rather than certainty”. He goes on “There is room for different interpretations of the current data. If some of these other interpretations are correct, or at least nearer to the truth, then conclusions about the actions required will change correspondingly”. Elsewhere he writes “The data on Covid-19 differs wildly from country to country. Look at the figures for Italy and Germany. At the time of writing, Italy has 69,176 recorded cases and 6,820 deaths, a rate of 9.9 per cent. Germany has 32,986 cases and 157 deaths, a rate of 0.5 per cent. Do we think that the strain of virus is so different in these nearby countries as to virtually represent different diseases? Or that the populations are so different in their susceptibility to the virus that the death rate can vary more than twentyfold? If not, we ought to suspect systematic error, that the Covid-19 data we are seeing from different countries is not directly comparable. Look at other rates: Spain 7.1 per cent, US 1.3 per cent, Switzerland 1.3 per cent, France 4.3 per cent, South Korea 1.3 per cent, Iran 7.8 per cent. We may very well be comparing apples with oranges. Recording cases where there was a positive test for the virus is a very different thing to recording the virus as the main cause of death. Early evidence from Iceland, a country with a very strong organisation for wide testing within the population, suggests that as many as 50 per cent of infections are almost completely asymptomatic. Most of the rest are relatively minor. In fact, Iceland’s figures, 648 cases and two attributed deaths, give a death rate of 0.3 per cent. As population testing becomes more widespread elsewhere in the world, we will find a greater and greater proportion of cases where infections have already occurred and caused only mild effects. In fact, as time goes on, this will become generally truer too, because most infections tend to decrease in virulence as an epidemic progresses. One pretty clear indicator is death. If a new infection is causing many extra people to die (as opposed to an infection present in people who would have died anyway) then it will cause an increase in the overall death rate. But we have yet to see any statistical evidence for excess deaths, in any part of the world." All of the above will probably be quite interesting to those serious minded people reading this thread. But what do serious minded people who wish to debate it matter when there are those like you, to tell us with such certainty that you know the answer. Did you ever sit an examination? The first rule is answer the question. There are no marks whatsoever for unsubstantiated waffle. " Waffle? Following your monologue? I haven't actually said that you were wrong on saying that the data was incomplete nor did I question your intelligence yet you chose to to lead with a personal insult anyway. Nice. "With any luck this might all over once they admit to fucking up the statistical analysis." So is the current overload of the NHS and infections of frontline staff the result of "fucking up the statistical analysis"? The statistics that are important are at what rate people are being admitted to intensive care. That needs to be controlled right now. As we cannot test adequately that requires social distancing. We have failed as a country to be able to do that on our own so we have a lock down to force us to behave more responsibly. You haven't addressed any of the social, behavioural and demographic factors which may well make Sweden's approach successful for Sweden. If you think that there is no problem in hospitals because there are no statistics indicating "excess deaths" then you should probably consider talking to a medic rather than reading the Spectator. I have agreed that there may not be, on average, many excess deaths as a direct consequence of this. We can only see in hindsight. Are you saying that nothing should be done until it's over? "I know bugger all about medicine, but I know a bit about numbers and there is something very fishy about the data sets. It simply cannot affect so many people in one country but not in another. It doesn't stand the test of common sense. A bit of background reading shows that there might be some of flawed thinking going on." As you pointed out yourself, this is all dependent on testing. The few countries that have tested and traced extensively have suffered the least so far. The point, which I will restate, is not what proportion of the population is infected or what the mortality rate is. The point is how this effects our health service and how that effects everyone else. Sweden may have done what is right for Sweden but that may be completely wrong for somewhere else. Is that something you also feel the need to disagree with? | |||
"I'm sure you are right again number 1 How about you contribute rather than follow me around? #creepystalker are you dancing to his tune to?! Beautiful! You'll make me jealous
Some people get a hit from the most mundane things
#needtomanipulate
Like cheating on their wives?
Ta daa!
I'm not manipulating anyone or getting some satisfaction in trying to control the actions of someone else
Looking at my profile to find some unrelated information to try and use against me.
Pretty creepy. Definitely an attempt at a personal attack. Pretty desperate too
Just an observation. And believe me, i haven't been anywhere near your profile.
An observation for who's benefit and with your information from where?
You don't like being called out, clearly.what an unpleasant way to react though
You don't like being called out, clearly.what an unpleasant thing to do though.
#hypocrite "You chose to personally insult me a propos of nothing for some reason? Why was that? | |||
"I'm sure you are right again number 1 How about you contribute rather than follow me around? #creepystalker are you dancing to his tune to?! Beautiful! You'll make me jealous
Some people get a hit from the most mundane things
#needtomanipulate
Like cheating on their wives?
Ta daa!
I'm not manipulating anyone or getting some satisfaction in trying to control the actions of someone else
Looking at my profile to find some unrelated information to try and use against me.
Pretty creepy. Definitely an attempt at a personal attack. Pretty desperate too
Just an observation. And believe me, i haven't been anywhere near your profile.
An observation for who's benefit and with your information from where?
You don't like being called out, clearly.what an unpleasant way to react though
You don't like being called out, clearly.what an unpleasant thing to do though.
#hypocrite
You chose to personally insult me a propos of nothing for some reason?
Why was that?"Are you saying that you're not a hypocrite? | |||
"I'm sure you are right again number 1 How about you contribute rather than follow me around? #creepystalker are you dancing to his tune to?! Beautiful! You'll make me jealous
Some people get a hit from the most mundane things
#needtomanipulate
Like cheating on their wives?
Ta daa!
I'm not manipulating anyone or getting some satisfaction in trying to control the actions of someone else
Looking at my profile to find some unrelated information to try and use against me.
Pretty creepy. Definitely an attempt at a personal attack. Pretty desperate too
Just an observation. And believe me, i haven't been anywhere near your profile.
An observation for who's benefit and with your information from where?
You don't like being called out, clearly.what an unpleasant way to react though
You don't like being called out, clearly.what an unpleasant thing to do though.
#hypocrite
You chose to personally insult me a propos of nothing for some reason?
Why was that?
Are you saying that you're not a hypocrite?"I certainly reacted to your unprovoked insult. Perhaps I should not have done. I don't know what you "called me out on" so I will say that I'm not behaving hypocritically until I have some more information. Why did you choose to insult me without provocation? | |||
"I'm sure you are right again number 1 How about you contribute rather than follow me around? #creepystalker are you dancing to his tune to?! Beautiful! You'll make me jealous
Some people get a hit from the most mundane things
#needtomanipulate
Like cheating on their wives?
Ta daa!
I'm not manipulating anyone or getting some satisfaction in trying to control the actions of someone else
Looking at my profile to find some unrelated information to try and use against me.
Pretty creepy. Definitely an attempt at a personal attack. Pretty desperate too
Just an observation. And believe me, i haven't been anywhere near your profile.
An observation for who's benefit and with your information from where?
You don't like being called out, clearly.what an unpleasant way to react though
You don't like being called out, clearly.what an unpleasant thing to do though.
#hypocrite
You chose to personally insult me a propos of nothing for some reason?
Why was that?
Are you saying that you're not a hypocrite?
I certainly reacted to your unprovoked insult. Perhaps I should not have done.
I don't know what you "called me out on" so I will say that I'm not behaving hypocritically until I have some more information.
Why did you choose to insult me without provocation?"So, you REALLY don't think that you're a hypocrite? Amazing.  | |||
"I'm sure you are right again number 1 How about you contribute rather than follow me around? #creepystalker are you dancing to his tune to?! Beautiful! You'll make me jealous
Some people get a hit from the most mundane things
#needtomanipulate
Like cheating on their wives?
Ta daa!
I'm not manipulating anyone or getting some satisfaction in trying to control the actions of someone else
Looking at my profile to find some unrelated information to try and use against me.
Pretty creepy. Definitely an attempt at a personal attack. Pretty desperate too
Just an observation. And believe me, i haven't been anywhere near your profile.
An observation for who's benefit and with your information from where?
You don't like being called out, clearly.what an unpleasant way to react though
You don't like being called out, clearly.what an unpleasant thing to do though.
#hypocrite
You chose to personally insult me a propos of nothing for some reason?
Why was that?
Are you saying that you're not a hypocrite?
I certainly reacted to your unprovoked insult. Perhaps I should not have done.
I don't know what you "called me out on" so I will say that I'm not behaving hypocritically until I have some more information.
Why did you choose to insult me without provocation?
So, you REALLY don't think that you're a hypocrite? Amazing. "If you explain why you think that I am being then I may agree with you. If you keep it a secret then I can't. Why are you choosing to insult me, unprovoked, on a thread about Sweden's handling of Coronavirus? What is the purpose of this? Apologies to the OP btw. | |||
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"What is wrong with you guys in the uk .people out walking jogging and sunbathing in parks . Get real and cop on " I guess this is why different countries need different approaches. Of course, it's some people, perhaps very few who behave in a way that endangers everyone. Those pictures you see are actually of a few thousand out of millions staying at home. | |||
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"Easyuk, and on the basis of doubt you are still happy for those who govern us to press the "Nuclear" option, on doubtful data and analysis, and bring the whole pack of cards down? As you will. Let's guess, you haven't spent your life building up a business? " That's a very different subject. Is your argument about statistics constructed to justify your view on not having a shut down to minimise the effect on business? Yours in particular? Is the frontline of NHS critical care overwhelmed? Are staff working long shifts to cover the work? Are they being infected with Coronavirus and in some cases dying. Is that just made up fake news? If it is actually happening then the statistics about infection rates and mortality rates do not matter. What matters is reducing the infection rate so that fewer people become critically ill at the same time. Do you disagree with this approach? If so, how would you deal with the situation? | |||
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"It doesn't matter to me personally. I sold my business over a decade ago and my investments are sufficiently well balanced to cover most eventualities. The decision makers seem to have no concern regarding the long term collateral damage to society by making the wrong move, albeit based on inconclusive evidence, and seem deaf to counter argument. We have little evidence to trust those advising from the insulated comfort and security of Whitehall. Please tell us what consideration you think has been given to the "cure" being worse than the illness? Let us all hope the decision makers are right, for the long term doesn't look promising for most people, if they become dependant on the "magic money tree" for their long term livelihoods. " Nice swerve. I'm sure that decision makers are very concerned about the long term consequences, but you need to navigate the current crisis first. Is there an emergency care crisis right now? Yes/no Are people dying right now as a consequence of Covid-19 including medical staff? Yes/no If no, then fine, it is all an overreaction and it has been foolish to carry out testing and shut downs. If, however, these things have been happening and the healthcare system is under extreme stress then what is your alternative plan to deal with that situation right now? If we carry on as normal because of "inconclusive evidence" (not happening in hospitals and nursing homes all over the world with pictures and interviews) what are the consequences? | |||
"A famous punk band featuring Hugh Cornwall as lead singer ( sorry it wont let me post there name ) wrote about Sweden after a tour there , and i quote " let me tell you about Sweden The only place where the clouds are interesting . To much time to think to little to do " There is probably not much point in locking Sweden down , it would just be another normal day . " followed the band for decades, still play their amazing music | |||
It seems they are banking on the populace getting some sort of herd immunity.
A far more socially responsible Country in part. | |||
"The Swedish government tried to sneak a bit of ruling by decree in
It seems they are banking on the populace getting some sort of herd immunity.
A far more socially responsible Country in part. "I noticed that. The opposition were having none of it so they will have to remain informed. Doesn't seem like that much to ask really. Ultimately we need a vaccine or herd immunity. It's just how fast we achieve the latter that is the issue I guess... | |||
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"I'm sure you are right again number 1 How about you contribute rather than follow me around? #creepystalker are you dancing to his tune to?! Beautiful! You'll make me jealous
Some people get a hit from the most mundane things
#needtomanipulate
Like cheating on their wives?
Ta daa!
I'm not manipulating anyone or getting some satisfaction in trying to control the actions of someone else
Looking at my profile to find some unrelated information to try and use against me.
Pretty creepy. Definitely an attempt at a personal attack. Pretty desperate too
Just an observation. And believe me, i haven't been anywhere near your profile.
An observation for who's benefit and with your information from where?
You don't like being called out, clearly.what an unpleasant way to react though
You don't like being called out, clearly.what an unpleasant thing to do though.
#hypocrite
You chose to personally insult me a propos of nothing for some reason?
Why was that?
Are you saying that you're not a hypocrite?
I certainly reacted to your unprovoked insult. Perhaps I should not have done.
I don't know what you "called me out on" so I will say that I'm not behaving hypocritically until I have some more information.
Why did you choose to insult me without provocation?
So, you REALLY don't think that you're a hypocrite? Amazing.
If you explain why you think that I am being then I may agree with you. If you keep it a secret then I can't.
Why are you choosing to insult me, unprovoked, on a thread about Sweden's handling of Coronavirus?
What is the purpose of this?
Apologies to the OP btw."Dude read this thread: https://m.fabswingers.com/forum/politics/982005 If I was one of the people who hung the 'conspiracy theorist' label on people who foresaw COVID-19 I would not be drawing attention to myself. | |||
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"Oh and that's not you btw. But the same old protagonist making personal attacks and throwing insults around. Same shit different day... "Several of them seem to have wondered off into some seething corner of anger for some alone time. I do still disagree with you on many points of this though. More on specifics than generalities though. From the perspective of mortality rates it is certainly higher than normal flu and more virulent because of the high incidence of asymptomatic carriers. However, we will still need to develop either a vaccine or some level of herd immunity to return to some level of normality. Otherwise reinfection will occur. In retrospect, we may well find that overall deaths as a direct result of Covid-19 are only slightly larger than would have ordinarily occured over the same period, particularly in the older age groups and those who are more ill. The problem is the very high peak load on hospitals and the knock on effects on the treatment of other conditions. Of course, this only refers to relatively wealthy countries with good healthcare who have choices. Poor countries are going to be hit very badly indeed. | |||
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"With countries in lockdown and numbers still rocketing...has Sweden done the right thing in doing little and carrying on ...." nope, things are catching up with them fast. (Corona) | |||
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"With countries in lockdown and numbers still rocketing...has Sweden done the right thing in doing little and carrying on .... nope, things are catching up with them fast. (Corona)" Their death toll/ 1m population is rising now. | |||
"Apparently Portugal has taken a very non lockdown approach too but did social distancing early on and their population voluntarily stuck to it (unlike here). Their infection rate is much lower too, apparently which is a little strange considering they are right next to Spain, I suppose that could be explained because the spanish and the portuguese are not the best of mates in the world ."unlike here ffs almost everyone as stuck to it apart from a tiny minority | |||
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"No, absolutely not clearly! Norway: 6,840 active 164 dead 32 recovered Sweden: 11,761 active 1,511 dead 550 recovered Finland: 1,891 active 90 dead 1,700 recovered" It's not the absolute numbers that matter. It is the numbers relative to the size of the population. However, the outcome is the same. Sweden is now proving to be in a worse situation than it's neighbors but still significantly better than other parts of Europe including us. That said the nature of infection can see thus change very quickly. Japan started off well, but historically very low emergency care availability is starting to create a crisis... | |||
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"Many are traveling to sweden now especially women to get their haircuts, it was on the news few days ago." Really ? 
British women?
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"Many are traveling to sweden now especially women to get their haircuts, it was on the news few days ago. Really ?
British women?
"Yes they do and yes I guess british women travel their too. | |||
"Many are traveling to sweden now especially women to get their haircuts, it was on the news few days ago. Really ?
British women?
Yes they do and yes I guess british women travel their too."Wow that’s a really expensive haircut
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"https://www.wired.co.uk/article/sweden-coronavirus-herd-immunity "The country gained early praise from some for shunning lockdown, but it now has one of the highest per-capita rates of coronavirus death in the world"" . Yeah but "Boris" and "Tories"? Right? I mean, it's still all their fault yeh? | |||
"https://www.wired.co.uk/article/sweden-coronavirus-herd-immunity "The country gained early praise from some for shunning lockdown, but it now has one of the highest per-capita rates of coronavirus death in the world". Yeah but "Boris" and "Tories"? Right? I mean, it's still all their fault yeh?" Not all, but in case you hadn’t heard, they are in charge of the country | |||
"https://www.wired.co.uk/article/sweden-coronavirus-herd-immunity "The country gained early praise from some for shunning lockdown, but it now has one of the highest per-capita rates of coronavirus death in the world". Yeah but "Boris" and "Tories"? Right? I mean, it's still all their fault yeh?" It's not Boris and the Tories fault that Sweden has failed to take care of its population as well as many other countries. It is BoJo/Cummings and the Tory government's fault that the UK has failed to take care of its population as well as many other countries. Would you agree or is someone else responsible? Have you got a YouTube clip that proves it? | |||
"https://www.wired.co.uk/article/sweden-coronavirus-herd-immunity "The country gained early praise from some for shunning lockdown, but it now has one of the highest per-capita rates of coronavirus death in the world". Yeah but "Boris" and "Tories"? Right? I mean, it's still all their fault yeh? It's not Boris and the Tories fault that Sweden has failed to take care of its population as well as many other countries. It is BoJo/Cummings and the Tory government's fault that the UK has failed to take care of its population as well as many other countries. Would you agree or is someone else responsible? Have you got a YouTube clip that proves it?" I thought people like you thought that everything was Boris's fault? Have you changed your mind? | |||
"It's not the absolute numbers that matter. It is the numbers relative to the size of the population." No. Actual deaths do matter and international comparisons are utterly pointless; especially to grieving relatives. What actually matters is how many deaths, due to Covid 19, did your government fail to prevent? Population density is a factor in the planning any government has to make, to try and prevent deaths; but your own country's situation is all you can deal with to any effect. The UK government has a case to answer on preventable deaths - to its own people; but comparing what they've done relative to New Zealand, the USA, or even Sweden, isn't going to change what's happened - or influence them. It certainly hasn't yet. | |||
"https://www.wired.co.uk/article/sweden-coronavirus-herd-immunity "The country gained early praise from some for shunning lockdown, but it now has one of the highest per-capita rates of coronavirus death in the world". Yeah but "Boris" and "Tories"? Right? I mean, it's still all their fault yeh? It's not Boris and the Tories fault that Sweden has failed to take care of its population as well as many other countries. It is BoJo/Cummings and the Tory government's fault that the UK has failed to take care of its population as well as many other countries. Would you agree or is someone else responsible? Have you got a YouTube clip that proves it?" I think someone just jumped to conclusions without reading the link. The thread title should have been enough | |||
"https://www.wired.co.uk/article/sweden-coronavirus-herd-immunity "The country gained early praise from some for shunning lockdown, but it now has one of the highest per-capita rates of coronavirus death in the world". Yeah but "Boris" and "Tories"? Right? I mean, it's still all their fault yeh? It's not Boris and the Tories fault that Sweden has failed to take care of its population as well as many other countries. It is BoJo/Cummings and the Tory government's fault that the UK has failed to take care of its population as well as many other countries. Would you agree or is someone else responsible? Have you got a YouTube clip that proves it? I thought people like you thought that everything was Boris's fault? Have you changed your mind?" "People like you" meaning what? What has BoJo/Cummings and the Tories got to do with Sweden? Why are you discussing them at all? This thread is about Sweden. So you have a YouTube clip a link to a conspiracy site or any actual information to add to the discussion? | |||
"https://www.wired.co.uk/article/sweden-coronavirus-herd-immunity "The country gained early praise from some for shunning lockdown, but it now has one of the highest per-capita rates of coronavirus death in the world". Yeah but "Boris" and "Tories"? Right? I mean, it's still all their fault yeh? It's not Boris and the Tories fault that Sweden has failed to take care of its population as well as many other countries. It is BoJo/Cummings and the Tory government's fault that the UK has failed to take care of its population as well as many other countries. Would you agree or is someone else responsible? Have you got a YouTube clip that proves it? I thought people like you thought that everything was Boris's fault? Have you changed your mind? "People like you" meaning what? What has BoJo/Cummings and the Tories got to do with Sweden? Why are you discussing them at all? This thread is about Sweden. So you have a YouTube clip a link to a conspiracy site or any actual information to add to the discussion?" I think you need to ask easier questions | |||
"https://www.wired.co.uk/article/sweden-coronavirus-herd-immunity "The country gained early praise from some for shunning lockdown, but it now has one of the highest per-capita rates of coronavirus death in the world". Yeah but "Boris" and "Tories"? Right? I mean, it's still all their fault yeh? It's not Boris and the Tories fault that Sweden has failed to take care of its population as well as many other countries. It is BoJo/Cummings and the Tory government's fault that the UK has failed to take care of its population as well as many other countries. Would you agree or is someone else responsible? Have you got a YouTube clip that proves it? I thought people like you thought that everything was Boris's fault? Have you changed your mind? "People like you" meaning what? What has BoJo/Cummings and the Tories got to do with Sweden? Why are you discussing them at all? This thread is about Sweden. So you have a YouTube clip a link to a conspiracy site or any actual information to add to the discussion? I think you need to ask easier questions "To be honest I'm happy with how it went, I cast the bait and he grabbed it! | |||
"https://www.wired.co.uk/article/sweden-coronavirus-herd-immunity "The country gained early praise from some for shunning lockdown, but it now has one of the highest per-capita rates of coronavirus death in the world". Yeah but "Boris" and "Tories"? Right? I mean, it's still all their fault yeh? It's not Boris and the Tories fault that Sweden has failed to take care of its population as well as many other countries. It is BoJo/Cummings and the Tory government's fault that the UK has failed to take care of its population as well as many other countries. Would you agree or is someone else responsible? Have you got a YouTube clip that proves it? I thought people like you thought that everything was Boris's fault? Have you changed your mind? "People like you" meaning what? What has BoJo/Cummings and the Tories got to do with Sweden? Why are you discussing them at all? This thread is about Sweden. So you have a YouTube clip a link to a conspiracy site or any actual information to add to the discussion? I think you need to ask easier questions
To be honest I'm happy with how it went, I cast the bait and he grabbed it! "You're happy that you are unable to answer some pretty basic questions and come off looking like someone who got stuck into an argument without even knowing what the discussion was about?  OK.... | |||
"https://www.wired.co.uk/article/sweden-coronavirus-herd-immunity "The country gained early praise from some for shunning lockdown, but it now has one of the highest per-capita rates of coronavirus death in the world". Yeah but "Boris" and "Tories"? Right? I mean, it's still all their fault yeh? It's not Boris and the Tories fault that Sweden has failed to take care of its population as well as many other countries. It is BoJo/Cummings and the Tory government's fault that the UK has failed to take care of its population as well as many other countries. Would you agree or is someone else responsible? Have you got a YouTube clip that proves it? I thought people like you thought that everything was Boris's fault? Have you changed your mind? "People like you" meaning what? What has BoJo/Cummings and the Tories got to do with Sweden? Why are you discussing them at all? This thread is about Sweden. So you have a YouTube clip a link to a conspiracy site or any actual information to add to the discussion? I think you need to ask easier questions
To be honest I'm happy with how it went, I cast the bait and he grabbed it!
You're happy that you are unable to answer some pretty basic questions and come off looking like someone who got stuck into an argument without even knowing what the discussion was about? OK.... "Tbf that is probably a win in his mind, he usually comes off worse than that | |||
"https://www.wired.co.uk/article/sweden-coronavirus-herd-immunity "The country gained early praise from some for shunning lockdown, but it now has one of the highest per-capita rates of coronavirus death in the world". Yeah but "Boris" and "Tories"? Right? I mean, it's still all their fault yeh? It's not Boris and the Tories fault that Sweden has failed to take care of its population as well as many other countries. It is BoJo/Cummings and the Tory government's fault that the UK has failed to take care of its population as well as many other countries. Would you agree or is someone else responsible? Have you got a YouTube clip that proves it? I thought people like you thought that everything was Boris's fault? Have you changed your mind? "People like you" meaning what? What has BoJo/Cummings and the Tories got to do with Sweden? Why are you discussing them at all? This thread is about Sweden. So you have a YouTube clip a link to a conspiracy site or any actual information to add to the discussion? I think you need to ask easier questions
To be honest I'm happy with how it went, I cast the bait and he grabbed it!
You're happy that you are unable to answer some pretty basic questions and come off looking like someone who got stuck into an argument without even knowing what the discussion was about? OK....
Tbf that is probably a win in his mind, he usually comes off worse than that "Yeah you only have to go over the old COVID-19 threads to realise that...... what a conspiracy theory COVID-19 turned out to be.... Maybe we all need tinfoil hats now.... | |||
"With countries in lockdown and numbers still rocketing...has Sweden done the right thing in doing little and carrying on ...." https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-52903717 | |||
