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eu court ruling
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The eu,s top court has ruled that poland,hungary and the czech republic broke eu law by refusing to take in refugees.What will be the outcome of this,will they or can they be made to?"
nope,
laughable when all EU countries have closed their borders, one by one each country will slowly follow the steps of the UK
many will say it will never happen, same as they said trump would never make president, same as Boris would never make PM, same as they said Brexit would never happen |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The eu,s top court has ruled that poland,hungary and the czech republic broke eu law by refusing to take in refugees.What will be the outcome of this,will they or can they be made to?
nope,
laughable when all EU countries have closed their borders, one by one each country will slowly follow the steps of the UK
many will say it will never happen, same as they said trump would never make president, same as Boris would never make PM, same as they said Brexit would never happen"
When will it happen? be bold, give us a time frame ? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The eu,s top court has ruled that poland,hungary and the czech republic broke eu law by refusing to take in refugees.What will be the outcome of this,will they or can they be made to?
nope,
laughable when all EU countries have closed their borders, one by one each country will slowly follow the steps of the UK
many will say it will never happen, same as they said trump would never make president, same as Boris would never make PM, same as they said Brexit would never happen
When will it happen? be bold, give us a time frame ?"
when will the virus be over
give us a time frame
dont be so silly. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The eu,s top court has ruled that poland,hungary and the czech republic broke eu law by refusing to take in refugees.What will be the outcome of this,will they or can they be made to?
nope,
laughable when all EU countries have closed their borders, one by one each country will slowly follow the steps of the UK
many will say it will never happen, same as they said trump would never make president, same as Boris would never make PM, same as they said Brexit would never happen
When will it happen? be bold, give us a time frame ?
when will the virus be over
give us a time frame
dont be so silly."
The virus will be over in 18-24 months earlier if the get a vaccine . So, when will the EU collapse ? 10 years? 20 years? 50 years? |
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"So no one got an answer? the bbc seem to think they will fine them but what will the EU do if they still refuse to obey EU law?"
Probably fine them again and the stalemate will continue.
Maybe the Poles and Czechs will eventually back down but Orban will dig his heels in.
However I don't see any of them getting chucked out any time soon.
Time for for the EU to learn how to plait sawdust methinks. |
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By *ostafun OP Man
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"So no one got an answer? the bbc seem to think they will fine them but what will the EU do if they still refuse to obey EU law?
Probably fine them again and the stalemate will continue.
Maybe the Poles and Czechs will eventually back down but Orban will dig his heels in.
However I don't see any of them getting chucked out any time soon.
Time for for the EU to learn how to plait sawdust methinks."
No of course they wont be chucked out i was never suggesting they would but its a bit of a conundrum for the eu if they fail to comply. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Lol. This is where the EU is screwing up big time. It was supposed to be a trade union and that's what it should be. Instead, if it wants to push its moral views on member countries, it becomes a nanny state. People in different countries of Europe have different views opinions. Forcing EU's views on such a large heterogeneous group is downright stupid and will eventually lead to its downfall if they stick to it. |
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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago
upton wirral |
"The eu,s top court has ruled that poland,hungary and the czech republic broke eu law by refusing to take in refugees.What will be the outcome of this,will they or can they be made to?"
A big joke and very pathetic
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By *ostafun OP Man
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"The eu,s top court has ruled that poland,hungary and the czech republic broke eu law by refusing to take in refugees.What will be the outcome of this,will they or can they be made to?A big joke and very pathetic"
Can you explain whats so funny?
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The eu,s top court has ruled that poland,hungary and the czech republic broke eu law by refusing to take in refugees.What will be the outcome of this,will they or can they be made to?
nope,
laughable when all EU countries have closed their borders, one by one each country will slowly follow the steps of the UK
many will say it will never happen, same as they said trump would never make president, same as Boris would never make PM, same as they said Brexit would never happen"
"They said". Haha |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
Ah, the paradox of the Brexiteer.
The EU forces countries to do things against their will. There is no sovereignty.
The EU cannot force countries to do things. The EU is powerless.
Which do you object to?  |
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Letting the EU eventually controlling British banks and pension funds.
We were very lucky to leave when we did. Otherwise this English nation would have been totally fucked.
Well done Brexiteers, you saved your country. 
And Trump saved his by building the wall.
Can you imagine all them poor migrants falling foul to the virus upon the streets of America.
The glued at the hip gang ain't going to like this post.
Stay safe peeps. Wear a mask. and wash your hands frequently. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Letting the EU eventually controlling British banks and pension funds.
We were very lucky to leave when we did. Otherwise this English nation would have been totally fucked.
Well done Brexiteers, you saved your country.
And Trump saved his by building the wall.
Can you imagine all them poor migrants falling foul to the virus upon the streets of America.
The glued at the hip gang ain't going to like this post.
Stay safe peeps. Wear a mask. and wash your hands frequently. "
Everything okay with you? |
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By *ostafun OP Man
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"Ah, the paradox of the Brexiteer.
The EU forces countries to do things against their will. There is no sovereignty.
The EU cannot force countries to do things. The EU is powerless.
Which do you object to? "
Here we go again  for someone who makes threads about people not engaging in those threads this post is showing you to be a hypocrite, would you like to address the OP or just here for random comments? |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"Ah, the paradox of the Brexiteer.
The EU forces countries to do things against their will. There is no sovereignty.
The EU cannot force countries to do things. The EU is powerless.
Which do you object to? Here we go again for someone who makes threads about people not engaging in those threads this post is showing you to be a hypocrite, would you like to address the OP or just here for random comments?"
Wow. Still seething eh?
At least you had the bravery to start your own thread this time
I wanted to better define the hypothetical question before trying to answer it.
Should the EU be forcing member states to do things or not?
There are rules around Article 7 which covers this.
"Preventative action
It's important to make clear that Article 7 is a process rather than an end in itself.
And the process is divided into separate parts, with one not necessarily dependent on the other.
Under the preventative mechanism, the commission, the European Council or the Parliament can start the Article 7 process to determine whether there is a "clear risk of a serious breach of EU values".
The parliament has to agree by two-thirds of those MEPs who take part in the vote, which must also be an absolute majority of all MEPs, to start the process.
It then goes to the EU Council - the heads of government of the member states.
The council must agree by a four-fifths majority that there is a risk of breaching EU values (and then recommend specific actions to be taken by the country concerned).
European Parliament sources say there is no particular timeframe for this process - and that, in theory, the council could do nothing and simply ignore the vote by the parliament.
Sanctions
Under the sanctions mechanism enshrined in Article 7, only the council or the commission can trigger the process.
The council then has to decide unanimously that "a serious and persistent breach of EU values has taken place".
It has to also get the agreement of two-thirds of the parliament to this.
Once that has been done, the council has the power to suspend some of the country's membership rights - such as voting rights in the council itself.
However, it is not clear what other rights can be suspended.
And the council can only take this ultimate step by a qualified majority amounting to 72% of member states."
It's quite a long and complicated process. As it should be for such a serious matter. Perhaps not the priority at the moment?
What do you think? Is it the priority for the EU? Do you think that's why Orban might have chosen this moment to take dictatorial power? Is it anti-democratic to vote away your democracy? Do you think that the EU should intervene in a sovereign decision by a national Parliament? |
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By *ostafun OP Man
over a year ago
near ipswich |
seething? dont flatter yourself mate you or your comments have no effect on my feelings apart from giving me a good laugh now and again.
Instead of copy and pasting something i cant even be bothered to read try answering the OP something you are so keen on others doing. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"seething? dont flatter yourself mate you or your comments have no effect on my feelings apart from giving me a good laugh now and again.
Instead of copy and pasting something i cant even be bothered to read try answering the OP something you are so keen on others doing."
so you never read either, snap
all that time and effort wasted lol |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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The eu has recently been called repugnant by portugal. Italy have warned that they may hold a referendum and spain also. Why? Because Germany Holland Austria and Finland, known as the frugal four refused these countries euro bonds to sell to help out they're economies while they are fighting this virus.
So much for European cohesion. They can't ask the imf for help because they are in the euro and thats controlled from frankfurt.
There will be much resentment in the euro zone when this is all over. Perhaps Britain leaving has been a potential life saver for us. By allowing us to use what ever fiscal means we nead to. To recover from this corona virus and its fallout
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"seething? dont flatter yourself mate you or your comments have no effect on my feelings apart from giving me a good laugh now and again.
Instead of copy and pasting something i cant even be bothered to read try answering the OP something you are so keen on others doing."
"Answer my question!"
"I can't be bothered to read your answer though."
You and your chums can enjoy your ignorance then |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"The eu has recently been called repugnant by portugal. Italy have warned that they may hold a referendum and spain also. Why? Because Germany Holland Austria and Finland, known as the frugal four refused these countries euro bonds to sell to help out they're economies while they are fighting this virus.
So much for European cohesion. They can't ask the imf for help because they are in the euro and thats controlled from frankfurt.
There will be much resentment in the euro zone when this is all over. Perhaps Britain leaving has been a potential life saver for us. By allowing us to use what ever fiscal means we nead to. To recover from this corona virus and its fallout
"
This is a global crisis.
Countries are complaining about not getting enough help fast enough. They wouldn't be getting any help at all on there own would they?
There is no EU mechanism in place for a crisis of this type. There appears to be little to none in most EU states. Is that the fault of the EU?
The response has been no faster or slower than that of individual member states each of which made their own sovereign decisions as to how to deal with the crisis.
What would you expect to happen? Unlimited funds to be transferred from richer States to poorer ones?
Does anyone know how long this will last? How much it will cost in cash and how much it will cost economically? How do you issue bonds without knowing this?
The majority of effort has been put into coordinating research and medical equipment.
The current proposal is make the European Solidarity Fund available first rather than taking on debt.
Now that the situation has become clearer, Germany, is treating patients from other countries. I find that impressive.
What would people want to happen?
What would be acceptable to you? |
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By *ostafun OP Man
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"The eu has recently been called repugnant by portugal. Italy have warned that they may hold a referendum and spain also. Why? Because Germany Holland Austria and Finland, known as the frugal four refused these countries euro bonds to sell to help out they're economies while they are fighting this virus.
So much for European cohesion. They can't ask the imf for help because they are in the euro and thats controlled from frankfurt.
There will be much resentment in the euro zone when this is all over. Perhaps Britain leaving has been a potential life saver for us. By allowing us to use what ever fiscal means we nead to. To recover from this corona virus and its fallout
This is a global crisis.
Countries are complaining about not getting enough help fast enough. They wouldn't be getting any help at all on there own would they?
There is no EU mechanism in place for a crisis of this type. There appears to be little to none in most EU states. Is that the fault of the EU?
The response has been no faster or slower than that of individual member states each of which made their own sovereign decisions as to how to deal with the crisis.
What would you expect to happen? Unlimited funds to be transferred from richer States to poorer ones?
Does anyone know how long this will last? How much it will cost in cash and how much it will cost economically? How do you issue bonds without knowing this?
The majority of effort has been put into coordinating research and medical equipment.
The current proposal is make the European Solidarity Fund available first rather than taking on debt.
Now that the situation has become clearer, Germany, is treating patients from other countries. I find that impressive.
What would people want to happen?
What would be acceptable to you?"
Its not really about what is acceptable to him its whats acceptable to italy and spain and they are not happy with germany and holland.The point of eurobonds is so the whole of the eu bears the cost together i thought that was what the eu was about but obviously not when it comes to money. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"The eu has recently been called repugnant by portugal. Italy have warned that they may hold a referendum and spain also. Why? Because Germany Holland Austria and Finland, known as the frugal four refused these countries euro bonds to sell to help out they're economies while they are fighting this virus.
So much for European cohesion. They can't ask the imf for help because they are in the euro and thats controlled from frankfurt.
There will be much resentment in the euro zone when this is all over. Perhaps Britain leaving has been a potential life saver for us. By allowing us to use what ever fiscal means we nead to. To recover from this corona virus and its fallout
This is a global crisis.
Countries are complaining about not getting enough help fast enough. They wouldn't be getting any help at all on there own would they?
There is no EU mechanism in place for a crisis of this type. There appears to be little to none in most EU states. Is that the fault of the EU?
The response has been no faster or slower than that of individual member states each of which made their own sovereign decisions as to how to deal with the crisis.
What would you expect to happen? Unlimited funds to be transferred from richer States to poorer ones?
Does anyone know how long this will last? How much it will cost in cash and how much it will cost economically? How do you issue bonds without knowing this?
The majority of effort has been put into coordinating research and medical equipment.
The current proposal is make the European Solidarity Fund available first rather than taking on debt.
Now that the situation has become clearer, Germany, is treating patients from other countries. I find that impressive.
What would people want to happen?
What would be acceptable to you?Its not really about what is acceptable to him its whats acceptable to italy and spain and they are not happy with germany and holland.The point of eurobonds is so the whole of the eu bears the cost together i thought that was what the eu was about but obviously not when it comes to money."
What's the European Solidarity Fund? Are you able to explain how this is different to a Eurobond?
Too much reading? Complicated perhaps?
Each individual country will be increasing it's borrowing to cover the immediate cost of the crisis.
A sovereign decision.
The first phase is dealing with the initial crisis. Coordinating medical response and medicine. That is in place.
Second place dealing with the short-term debt of some economically weaker economies. That's this discussion. Happening in a crisis so unsurprisingly bad tempered. This will also take some time to resolve as it is complicated.
Again, the question is what would the mechanism be if there was no EU? Who would the countries who needed money be talking to?
It's all very well demanding to know how the governments and people of other countries will react. It all rather depends on the eventual outcome. Something we don't know yet.
However, you don't seem to like the speculation that you have requested not to read the answers
How about you speculating on what an acceptable response would be and why this one in unacceptable - for the countries involved? |
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By *ostafun OP Man
over a year ago
near ipswich |
yeah that e800 million is going to go a long way between all the countries and only covers 2.5% of total costs if there are sufficient funds. The euro area would raise new debt for which all 19 members of the currency union would be jointly and severally liable. Countries such as Italy and Spain, which are suffering the most from the coronavirus, would get cheaper access to the money they need to recover. States like Germany, which currently borrow at negative rates, would pay only trivially higher interest costs. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"yeah that e800 million is going to go a long way between all the countries and only covers 2.5% of total costs if there are sufficient funds. The euro area would raise new debt for which all 19 members of the currency union would be jointly and severally liable. Countries such as Italy and Spain, which are suffering the most from the coronavirus, would get cheaper access to the money they need to recover. States like Germany, which currently borrow at negative rates, would pay only trivially higher interest costs."
37 billion Euros have been made available for Coronavirus spending. That's not chump change.
The EU is, in fact, borrowing 100 billion Euros that will be loaned to member states. So doing exactly what you say.
Again seems like a fair amount.
The European Solidarity Fund is 400 billion Euros. They will have to go through the process of releasing that too.
Again, the EU is not set up for dealing with emergencies. It's a large scale organisation which follows treaty based rules. It is not the overbearing transnational "government" that you've spent years accusing it of being, but now you are saying that's a problem |
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By *ostafun OP Man
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"yeah that e800 million is going to go a long way between all the countries and only covers 2.5% of total costs if there are sufficient funds. The euro area would raise new debt for which all 19 members of the currency union would be jointly and severally liable. Countries such as Italy and Spain, which are suffering the most from the coronavirus, would get cheaper access to the money they need to recover. States like Germany, which currently borrow at negative rates, would pay only trivially higher interest costs.
37 billion Euros have been made available for Coronavirus spending. That's not chump change.
The EU is, in fact, borrowing 100 billion Euros that will be loaned to member states. So doing exactly what you say.
Again seems like a fair amount.
The European Solidarity Fund is 400 billion Euros. They will have to go through the process of releasing that too.
Again, the EU is not set up for dealing with emergencies. It's a large scale organisation which follows treaty based rules. It is not the overbearing transnational "government" that you've spent years accusing it of being, but now you are saying that's a problem "
Where i have spent years saying that????????? loaned to member states is the key,these are the poorest nations already burden with debt all they are doing is letting them break the eu,s fiscal rules and borrow more.They are calling for solidarity in the eu and all countries to bear the debt equally.Surprise,surprise the heavyweights dont want that they just want them further under the thumb by being in more debt. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"yeah that e800 million is going to go a long way between all the countries and only covers 2.5% of total costs if there are sufficient funds. The euro area would raise new debt for which all 19 members of the currency union would be jointly and severally liable. Countries such as Italy and Spain, which are suffering the most from the coronavirus, would get cheaper access to the money they need to recover. States like Germany, which currently borrow at negative rates, would pay only trivially higher interest costs.
37 billion Euros have been made available for Coronavirus spending. That's not chump change.
The EU is, in fact, borrowing 100 billion Euros that will be loaned to member states. So doing exactly what you say.
Again seems like a fair amount.
The European Solidarity Fund is 400 billion Euros. They will have to go through the process of releasing that too.
Again, the EU is not set up for dealing with emergencies. It's a large scale organisation which follows treaty based rules. It is not the overbearing transnational "government" that you've spent years accusing it of being, but now you are saying that's a problem Where i have spent years saying that????????? loaned to member states is the key,these are the poorest nations already burden with debt all they are doing is letting them break the eu,s fiscal rules and borrow more.They are calling for solidarity in the eu and all countries to bear the debt equally.Surprise,surprise the heavyweights dont want that they just want them further under the thumb by being in more debt."
I'm confused. Should countries take responsibility for their actions and maintain their sovereignty or not?
I've given you a whole list of EU funding provided at the contribution ratios relative to the economy sizes.
Money is being borrowed based on the credit worthiness of the entire EU, so at a much lower rate than any of the poorer states could. That's not good enough?
You would like countries to pay back money that someone else has borrowed?
Really?
It's quite amusing. You still cannot explain if country's should be autonomous or if the EU should force member states to so things.
You also haven't said if the EU should spend time and effort in sanctioning Hungary immediately or prioritise the Coronavirus. Of course, you don't like reading so will have deliberately skipped that |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"yeah that e800 million is going to go a long way between all the countries and only covers 2.5% of total costs if there are sufficient funds. The euro area would raise new debt for which all 19 members of the currency union would be jointly and severally liable. Countries such as Italy and Spain, which are suffering the most from the coronavirus, would get cheaper access to the money they need to recover. States like Germany, which currently borrow at negative rates, would pay only trivially higher interest costs.
37 billion Euros have been made available for Coronavirus spending. That's not chump change.
The EU is, in fact, borrowing 100 billion Euros that will be loaned to member states. So doing exactly what you say.
Again seems like a fair amount.
The European Solidarity Fund is 400 billion Euros. They will have to go through the process of releasing that too.
Again, the EU is not set up for dealing with emergencies. It's a large scale organisation which follows treaty based rules. It is not the overbearing transnational "government" that you've spent years accusing it of being, but now you are saying that's a problem Where i have spent years saying that????????? loaned to member states is the key,these are the poorest nations already burden with debt all they are doing is letting them break the eu,s fiscal rules and borrow more.They are calling for solidarity in the eu and all countries to bear the debt equally.Surprise,surprise the heavyweights dont want that they just want them further under the thumb by being in more debt."
Oh yes, sorry, you do need to dwell on details and you will keep banging on about it so "years aaying" is a figure of speech which means repeatedly making the same point.
In this case about sovereignty being so important to the UK.
Happy? Unlikely |
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