FabSwingers.com > Forums > The Lounge > Hypocrisy much?
Hypocrisy much?
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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So, if we deport foreign criminals (some of which have been here since the age of 4.....when do you become British? Another question!!!!) Why are we not taking Shameema Begum back?
Screams massive hypocrisy...no? |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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Jamaicans....a plane load. Don't get me wrong, deport foreign criminals for sure. But, if you are gonna push foreigners out, then take ours back. Can't have it both ways. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Jamaicans....a plane load. Don't get me wrong, deport foreign criminals for sure. But, if you are gonna push foreigners out, then take ours back. Can't have it both ways."
I'm confused. They've rejected Shameema Begum returning haven't they? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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This isn't the first flight out, they get sent often.
Its not right as one was definitely 5 when he came here, got groomed into county lines at 17, spent most of his life in our care system...so he is a product of the UK.
But if you come over as an adult, commit crimes..do your time and get sent back...there will be no tears from me
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"This isn't the first flight out, they get sent often.
Its not right as one was definitely 5 when he came here, got groomed into county lines at 17, spent most of his life in our care system...so he is a product of the UK.
But if you come over as an adult, commit crimes..do your time and get sent back...there will be no tears from me
"
Two questions...
When do you become British, to the point you have to be dealt with the same as somebody born here?
Do you not want Begum back? If you don't how does that work? I'm confused |
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"
Two questions...
When do you become British, to the point you have to be dealt with the same as somebody born here?
Do you not want Begum back? If you don't how does that work? I'm confused"
When you apply for British Citizenship
Begum has dual citizenship, so they can remove one whilst still allowing her to be the citizen of another country. So she isn’t stateless |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
Two questions...
When do you become British, to the point you have to be dealt with the same as somebody born here?
Do you not want Begum back? If you don't how does that work? I'm confused
When you apply for British Citizenship
Begum has dual citizenship, so they can remove one whilst still allowing her to be the citizen of another country. So she isn’t stateless "
I think she is now. Bangladesh have said shes getting the rope if you she steps foot there |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"So, we are hypocritical then? Get the rotters out of our country and dump our own on others. We must look cracking around the world..."
Not really, she defected. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"So, we are hypocritical then? Get the rotters out of our country and dump our own on others. We must look cracking around the world...
Not really, she defected."
She wants to come back, they want to stay. I see no difference, other than we seem to be a country that shirks responsibility. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"So, we are hypocritical then? Get the rotters out of our country and dump our own on others. We must look cracking around the world...
Not really, she defected.
She wants to come back, they want to stay. I see no difference, other than we seem to be a country that shirks responsibility."
Its 2 different scenarios.
She left and joined a terrorist organisation that wants to destroy our way of life. Britain didn't dump her anywhere, she left of hero own free will |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"So, we are hypocritical then? Get the rotters out of our country and dump our own on others. We must look cracking around the world...
Not really, she defected.
She wants to come back, they want to stay. I see no difference, other than we seem to be a country that shirks responsibility.
Its 2 different scenarios.
She left and joined a terrorist organisation that wants to destroy our way of life. Britain didn't dump her anywhere, she left of hero own free will"
But will dump her on another country which has absolutely no experience of her as a citizen....interesting |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"So, we are hypocritical then? Get the rotters out of our country and dump our own on others. We must look cracking around the world...
Not really, she defected.
She wants to come back, they want to stay. I see no difference, other than we seem to be a country that shirks responsibility.
Its 2 different scenarios.
She left and joined a terrorist organisation that wants to destroy our way of life. Britain didn't dump her anywhere, she left of hero own free will
But will dump her on another country which has absolutely no experience of her as a citizen....interesting"
She wasn't dumped, she left. She went there on her own free will |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"So, we are hypocritical then? Get the rotters out of our country and dump our own on others. We must look cracking around the world...
Not really, she defected.
She wants to come back, they want to stay. I see no difference, other than we seem to be a country that shirks responsibility.
Its 2 different scenarios.
She left and joined a terrorist organisation that wants to destroy our way of life. Britain didn't dump her anywhere, she left of hero own free will
But will dump her on another country which has absolutely no experience of her as a citizen....interesting"
There is a difference between saying get out of our country, and we dont want you back in our country.
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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Just seems to me, we rightly don't like foreign criminals here but when one of ours commits offences abroad, we will quite happily dump them on another country.......must be just me then... |
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"You actually don't see a double standard?...must be just me. "
I really don’t see a double standard either.
Though I do think that deporting people who’ve been here since they were children (and therefore a product of this country) isn’t right. |
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"You actually don't see a double standard?...must be just me.
I think it clearly is just you
Or, you just haven't thought it through....possible?"
Did the Jamaicans leave their country to wage war on it?
THAT is the big difference. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Sure have.....taken away her citizenship
Then she's not a british citizen. "
Going by that logic.....thousands could be deported to countries they have never set foot in. Worrying thought process... |
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It's a clear double standard. International law says you can't render anyone stateless and the British government accepts that. So if Begum wasn't entitled to any other citizenship no one disputes her British citizenship could not be taken away.
The Bangladeshis say Begum isn't entitled to citizenship there but Britain disputes that.
It's essentially an international pass the parcel, but leaving aside the legalities, its difficult to see how someone born brought up and educated in Britain (and who has never been to Bangladesh) is not the primary responsibility of Britain.
If Begum was white with, say, Australian parents does anyone seriously think we'd be trying to dump her on Australia? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Sure have.....taken away her citizenship
Then she's not a british citizen.
Going by that logic.....thousands could be deported to countries they have never set foot in. Worrying thought process..."
Yes that is a possibility |
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By *mberWoman
over a year ago
Preston |
"You actually don't see a double standard?...must be just me. "
I do. I see the comparison you're drawing and I agree. It's not so cut and dried but in part we want to have our cake and eat it. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"You actually don't see a double standard?...must be just me.
I do. I see the comparison you're drawing and I agree. It's not so cut and dried but in part we want to have our cake and eat it."
That's what I was thinking. Don't get me wrong, I have no sympathy for criminals of any creed, or Begum. My worry is that such simple solutions for such nuanced problems can mean eventually that mistakes will be made... |
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"You actually don't see a double standard?...must be just me.
I do. I see the comparison you're drawing and I agree. It's not so cut and dried but in part we want to have our cake and eat it.
That's what I was thinking. Don't get me wrong, I have no sympathy for criminals of any creed, or Begum. My worry is that such simple solutions for such nuanced problems can mean eventually that mistakes will be made..."
It's no different to, say, Ian Huntley having American parents and thus taking away his British citizenship and trying to dump him on the USA. We wouldn't dare.
It's bleeding obvious to me that if someone is born, brought up and educated in a country and then turn bad, they're that countries' responsibility. |
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"
Two questions...
When do you become British, to the point you have to be dealt with the same as somebody born here?
Do you not want Begum back? If you don't how does that work? I'm confused
When you apply for British Citizenship
Begum has dual citizenship, so they can remove one whilst still allowing her to be the citizen of another country. So she isn’t stateless
I think she is now. Bangladesh have said shes getting the rope if you she steps foot there"
Justice served |
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"You actually don't see a double standard?...must be just me.
I do. I see the comparison you're drawing and I agree. It's not so cut and dried but in part we want to have our cake and eat it.
That's what I was thinking. Don't get me wrong, I have no sympathy for criminals of any creed, or Begum. My worry is that such simple solutions for such nuanced problems can mean eventually that mistakes will be made...
It's no different to, say, Ian Huntley having American parents and thus taking away his British citizenship and trying to dump him on the USA. We wouldn't dare.
It's bleeding obvious to me that if someone is born, brought up and educated in a country and then turn bad, they're that countries' responsibility. "
Wasn’t it fairly widely put about that anyone going and fighting for terrorist causes abroad would lose their citizenship though? |
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Priti awful Patel, the Home Secretary isn't somebody that I'd aspire to be like. The current government isn't going to be one that's going to have high moral, ethical standards etc, so we should, sadly, expect them to have a poor record by the end of their term.
We've had a terrible environment for the Windrush families and others. Theresa May created a hostile environment that supported the Windrush generation and families to be subjected to inhumane treatment, including throwing people out, to a country where they had nothing.
The Home Office needs a revolution but I don't see that happening, unless it's being directed to inflict hypocritical misery, wherever they think they could get away with it. All whilst creating divide and rule, pitting people against each other.
I'm generally of the opinion that people who have lived here since childhood or for a period, perhaps 5 to 10 years, should get equivalent treatment to Britons born here. |
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"You actually don't see a double standard?...must be just me.
I do. I see the comparison you're drawing and I agree. It's not so cut and dried but in part we want to have our cake and eat it.
That's what I was thinking. Don't get me wrong, I have no sympathy for criminals of any creed, or Begum. My worry is that such simple solutions for such nuanced problems can mean eventually that mistakes will be made...
It's no different to, say, Ian Huntley having American parents and thus taking away his British citizenship and trying to dump him on the USA. We wouldn't dare.
It's bleeding obvious to me that if someone is born, brought up and educated in a country and then turn bad, they're that countries' responsibility.
Wasn’t it fairly widely put about that anyone going and fighting for terrorist causes abroad would lose their citizenship though? "
It's accepted you can't take away someone's citizenship and make them stateless. Hence anyone who did what Begum did and who had no other alternative citizenship would retain their British citizenship.
What's essentially happening here is that we're trying to dump someone who is obviously British but with a tenuous connection to a poor third world country on that country.
As I say, we wouldnt dare do the same if the tenuous connection was with a rich powerful country. |
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"It's a clear double standard. International law says you can't render anyone stateless and the British government accepts that. So if Begum wasn't entitled to any other citizenship no one disputes her British citizenship could not be taken away.
The Bangladeshis say Begum isn't entitled to citizenship there but Britain disputes that.
It's essentially an international pass the parcel, but leaving aside the legalities, its difficult to see how someone born brought up and educated in Britain (and who has never been to Bangladesh) is not the primary responsibility of Britain.
If Begum was white with, say, Australian parents does anyone seriously think we'd be trying to dump her on Australia? "
Absolutely. Imagine the outrage if we had someone convicted of terrorism or something sent here when they had never even been to the UK and had been born and lived their whole life in another country but happened to have a British parent. |
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"It's a clear double standard. International law says you can't render anyone stateless and the British government accepts that. So if Begum wasn't entitled to any other citizenship no one disputes her British citizenship could not be taken away.
The Bangladeshis say Begum isn't entitled to citizenship there but Britain disputes that.
It's essentially an international pass the parcel, but leaving aside the legalities, its difficult to see how someone born brought up and educated in Britain (and who has never been to Bangladesh) is not the primary responsibility of Britain.
If Begum was white with, say, Australian parents does anyone seriously think we'd be trying to dump her on Australia?
Absolutely. Imagine the outrage if we had someone convicted of terrorism or something sent here when they had never even been to the UK and had been born and lived their whole life in another country but happened to have a British parent."
Well yes.
Take this example. John's British parents emigrated to the USA before he was born. John was born in the USA as an American citizen was brought up there and educated in their school system. He never visits the UK.
He's a very troubled teenager and aged around 14 he starts looking at Jihadi sites on line and then decides to travel to Syria to fight for Isis.
He's captured and the Americans refuse to have him back and say he is a British citizen and he's Britain's responsibility.
I assume that the people supporting the government on the begum issue would accept that Britain would be obliged to take this probably dangerous young man with no personal ties to the UK because of where his parents were born? |
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If my Mum had taken me to Jamaica as a kid, I then grow up and then decide to sell drugs & murder people, and the Jamaican government then decides to send me back to the UK. That would be my own stupid fault, wouldn't it?
How on Earth is this such a controversial matter? |
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For good reasons no country in the world particularly wants people like Begum but international law says she has to be a citizen of some country.
Hence it seems to me obvious that where she has possible citizenship in two countries, its the one with which she has the greatest connection that draws the short straw and gets her. That's obviously the UK.
And when she came back she could be but on trial and if found guilty imprisoned, just like any other British citizen who committed a crime. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Unless you were born in the country you cannot be classed as them ie I was born in England so I'm English my next door neighbor was born in Latvia so she might be a British citizen but never English |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"It's a clear double standard. International law says you can't render anyone stateless and the British government accepts that. So if Begum wasn't entitled to any other citizenship no one disputes her British citizenship could not be taken away.
The Bangladeshis say Begum isn't entitled to citizenship there but Britain disputes that.
It's essentially an international pass the parcel, but leaving aside the legalities, its difficult to see how someone born brought up and educated in Britain (and who has never been to Bangladesh) is not the primary responsibility of Britain.
If Begum was white with, say, Australian parents does anyone seriously think we'd be trying to dump her on Australia?
Absolutely. Imagine the outrage if we had someone convicted of terrorism or something sent here when they had never even been to the UK and had been born and lived their whole life in another country but happened to have a British parent."
Beautifully put..... |
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If you are raised and educated in a country and then later commit a crime. Should not the society of which you are a product not bear the responsibility?
Why should a country that has had little to no impact on the way you were educated or socially conditioned bear the cost of the failings of the country where you were based purely on your heritage? |
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
" I may be mistaken, but they hadnt applied for British citizenship. Not sure why, and we can speculate, but only they can answer."
basically the uk govt are taking advantage of the scandal "windrush" and using loopholes to send certain people back........
no one is talking about the people who have committed serious crimes.... but if you are sending 1st time drug offenders back (those charged with carrying... not intent to supply)
if that is what is called serious, then uk cabinet ministers who have admitted to taking cocaine is also serious..... |
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" I may be mistaken, but they hadnt applied for British citizenship. Not sure why, and we can speculate, but only they can answer.
basically the uk govt are taking advantage of the scandal "windrush" and using loopholes to send certain people back........
no one is talking about the people who have committed serious crimes.... but if you are sending 1st time drug offenders back (those charged with carrying... not intent to supply)
if that is what is called serious, then uk cabinet ministers who have admitted to taking cocaine is also serious....."
Yes, I saw something just now on twitter that Boris should technically be deported back to New York, where he was born, for his class A drug confessions. |
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It would be interesting to see a list of what the offences were, along with a list of previous convictions. I’d be willing to wager that the majority of those people had an extensive offending history.
Some of those who avoided deportation due to the court ruling had committed manslaughter and r.a.p.e
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/downing-street-deport-detainees-jamaica-a4359076.html
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R.a.p.e
1 convicted for r.a.p.e and given an 11 year sentence
1 convicted of r.a.pe and given a sentence of 4 years and 6 months
Violent crime
1 convicted for a violent assault and given a sentence of 1 year and 3 months
1 convicted of wounding with intend to cause GBH, possession of a weapon in public place Violent offences against a person (Wounding) 7 years
1 convicted of a violent crime against a person and given a 8 year sentence
Drugs
1 convicted for intent to supply class A drugs – 7 year sentence
1 persistent offender, whose most recent conviction was for drugs offences and intimidating a witness and given a total sentence of 11 months
1 convicted for importing controlled drugs and given a sentence of four years
1 convicted to supplying class A drugs and given a sentence of four years and six months
1 convicted to supplying class A drugs and given a sentence of three years
1 convicted of importing controlled class B drugs and given a three year sentence
1 convicted of supplying class A drugs (crack cocaine) and given a sentence of 3 years and 2 months
1 convicted of supplying class A drugs and given a sentence of 3 years and 4 months
Robbery and firearm offences:
1 convicted of robbery and give a life sentence
1 convicted of robbery, firearms offence, theft of a vehicle and possessing class A drugs, given a five year sentence
1 convicted for conspiracy to rob and possession of a firearm and given a sentence of 9 years
Burglary
1 convicted of burglary and given a prison sentence of 2 years and 6 months
Source https://metro.co.uk/2020/02/11/dad-moved-uk-child-served-two-years-burglary-deported-jamaica-12222159/ |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"R.a.p.e
1 convicted for r.a.p.e and given an 11 year sentence
1 convicted of r.a.pe and given a sentence of 4 years and 6 months
Violent crime
1 convicted for a violent assault and given a sentence of 1 year and 3 months
1 convicted of wounding with intend to cause GBH, possession of a weapon in public place Violent offences against a person (Wounding) 7 years
1 convicted of a violent crime against a person and given a 8 year sentence
Drugs
1 convicted for intent to supply class A drugs – 7 year sentence
1 persistent offender, whose most recent conviction was for drugs offences and intimidating a witness and given a total sentence of 11 months
1 convicted for importing controlled drugs and given a sentence of four years
1 convicted to supplying class A drugs and given a sentence of four years and six months
1 convicted to supplying class A drugs and given a sentence of three years
1 convicted of importing controlled class B drugs and given a three year sentence
1 convicted of supplying class A drugs (crack cocaine) and given a sentence of 3 years and 2 months
1 convicted of supplying class A drugs and given a sentence of 3 years and 4 months
Robbery and firearm offences:
1 convicted of robbery and give a life sentence
1 convicted of robbery, firearms offence, theft of a vehicle and possessing class A drugs, given a five year sentence
1 convicted for conspiracy to rob and possession of a firearm and given a sentence of 9 years
Burglary
1 convicted of burglary and given a prison sentence of 2 years and 6 months
Source https://metro.co.uk/2020/02/11/dad-moved-uk-child-served-two-years-burglary-deported-jamaica-12222159/"
Wonder if any of the above were involved with supplying Michael Gove with the class A he took???.....just asking |
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"Unless you were born in the country you cannot be classed as them ie I was born in England so I'm English my next door neighbor was born in Latvia so she might be a British citizen but never English"
You can be born in England and be neither. |
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" I may be mistaken, but they hadnt applied for British citizenship. Not sure why, and we can speculate, but only they can answer.
basically the uk govt are taking advantage of the scandal "windrush" and using loopholes to send certain people back........
no one is talking about the people who have committed serious crimes.... but if you are sending 1st time drug offenders back (those charged with carrying... not intent to supply)
if that is what is called serious, then uk cabinet ministers who have admitted to taking cocaine is also serious.....
Yes, I saw something just now on twitter that Boris should technically be deported back to New York, where he was born, for his class A drug confessions."
Oh can he. Please. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Unless you were born in the country you cannot be classed as them ie I was born in England so I'm English my next door neighbor was born in Latvia so she might be a British citizen but never English"
The amount of pride and self righteousness people have just from being born on an arbitrary piece of rock that may be 2 feet apart from another piece of rock amuses me. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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When do we become british?
We live on a rock hurtling through endless space. We live on this rock and we put made up lines on a map of it and decide them.
We are all human, it shouldn't matter where you are born or from. If your nice, people should be nice to you.
Yes, we all have our cultures, beliefs and ways, but we are not a country. We are all individuals.
So it shouldn't matter if you are british. |
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