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If men had a biological clock.
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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Something to think about but whoever created us was a little cruel in giving women a biological clock when the guy doesn’t have one.
How many men have been put off by a woman who seems like she just wants to settle down and start a family and seems a bit hurried in doing so, women in their 30’s and 40’s especially.
I wonder if guys ever stop to think why women have this urge to want to settle down whereas the guys have all the time in the world and can be quite casual about things.
The facts are every baby girl is born with around 2 million eggs, by the time that girl is a 30 year old woman up to 90% of her eggs have died. They say the best time to conceive and carry a child is your late teens and twenties. As you get older your chances of conceiving naturally get less and less and the risks get higher as you get older.
Now a man can carry on making sperm till the day he dies basically so he doesn’t have to think about the fact that his time to have a child could very well run out.
I believe that if men had a biological clock and they knew that by the time they reached 45 their chances of ever having a child could be gone. (I know women can have IVF and have children later than their 40’s) but natural conception is lower and the risk of complications is higher.
I believe that if men had the same time limit hanging over them, they would put a bit more effort into finding a life partner. They have a massive advantage over women when it comes to dating and they can be more relaxed as they don’t have to worry about whether this woman is going to waste their time or whether things will get serious.
Just think it’s a bit unfair, thoughts?
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By *a LunaWoman
over a year ago
South Wales |
But would men want children past a certain age? I have a few male friends the same age as me who are childless and who have said they wouldn’t want children later in life because they want to be able to run around and play with them.
Children are exhausting. Lovely etc, but exhausting.
Unless you want to leave all the stuff to the younger mum to deal with, then they could be missing out.
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"But would men want children past a certain age? I have a few male friends the same age as me who are childless and who have said they wouldn’t want children later in life because they want to be able to run around and play with them.
Children are exhausting. Lovely etc, but exhausting.
Unless you want to leave all the stuff to the younger mum to deal with, then they could be missing out.
"
They might not want them at a later age but they have the reassurance that they could have them at any age, and like you said they could just get themselves a partner of child bearing age. A woman can’t get herself a younger man and then she’d be able to have kids again.
I think knowing that your time to have a child WILL eventually run out puts a massive amount of pressure on women who want to have kids. A pressure that men will never know or understand. |
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By *a LunaWoman
over a year ago
South Wales |
"But would men want children past a certain age? I have a few male friends the same age as me who are childless and who have said they wouldn’t want children later in life because they want to be able to run around and play with them.
Children are exhausting. Lovely etc, but exhausting.
Unless you want to leave all the stuff to the younger mum to deal with, then they could be missing out.
They might not want them at a later age but they have the reassurance that they could have them at any age, and like you said they could just get themselves a partner of child bearing age. A woman can’t get herself a younger man and then she’d be able to have kids again.
I think knowing that your time to have a child WILL eventually run out puts a massive amount of pressure on women who want to have kids. A pressure that men will never know or understand. "
I think that’s a bit unfair.
There are men out there who are with life partners who are unable to have children, who have that feeling right now. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"But would men want children past a certain age? I have a few male friends the same age as me who are childless and who have said they wouldn’t want children later in life because they want to be able to run around and play with them.
Children are exhausting. Lovely etc, but exhausting.
Unless you want to leave all the stuff to the younger mum to deal with, then they could be missing out.
They might not want them at a later age but they have the reassurance that they could have them at any age, and like you said they could just get themselves a partner of child bearing age. A woman can’t get herself a younger man and then she’d be able to have kids again.
I think knowing that your time to have a child WILL eventually run out puts a massive amount of pressure on women who want to have kids. A pressure that men will never know or understand.
I think that’s a bit unfair.
There are men out there who are with life partners who are unable to have children, who have that feeling right now."
Why does everything have to go off on a tangent? I’m not talking about people who can’t have kids or people who don’t want to have kids.
Just trying to help educate men so maybe they could take this conversation to the pub and then it gets discussed more. I really don’t believe guys stop and think for a moment the real reasons why women (who want to have children) want relationships whereas they’re generally more happy to go with the flow and don’t really care if they waste a couple of months or years with a woman cos they don’t have the tick tick of the clock in the back of their minds.
Just believe everyone would be on an equal playing field if guys also had a time limit. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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We do have a clock one much worse than womens.
One that requires a blue pill.
After a certain age women can no longer have children which gives woman a new kind of freedom, whereas most men can prooduce children right up until death of old age.
Which would you prefer.
Being able to fuck until you are 102 without pharma help and not having to wory about pregnancy.
Or
Needing pharma. so you can fuck and always being concerned about pregnancy. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"We do have a clock one much worse than womens.
One that requires a blue pill.
After a certain age women can no longer have children which gives woman a new kind of freedom, whereas most men can prooduce children right up until death of old age.
Which would you prefer.
Being able to fuck until you are 102 without pharma help and not having to wory about pregnancy.
Or
Needing pharma. so you can fuck and always being concerned about pregnancy."
Well I think if your goal and your wish is to have your own biological child knowing that once you reach an age that’s it, nothing you can do about it, is worse than knowing that if your dick slows down you can take a pill to bring it back to life. |
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By *bi HaiveMan
over a year ago
Forum Mod Cheeseville, Somerset |
"But would men want children past a certain age? I have a few male friends the same age as me who are childless and who have said they wouldn’t want children later in life because they want to be able to run around and play with them.
Children are exhausting. Lovely etc, but exhausting.
Unless you want to leave all the stuff to the younger mum to deal with, then they could be missing out.
They might not want them at a later age but they have the reassurance that they could have them at any age, and like you said they could just get themselves a partner of child bearing age. A woman can’t get herself a younger man and then she’d be able to have kids again.
I think knowing that your time to have a child WILL eventually run out puts a massive amount of pressure on women who want to have kids. A pressure that men will never know or understand.
I think that’s a bit unfair.
There are men out there who are with life partners who are unable to have children, who have that feeling right now."
Men are no different to women.
Fertility drops off as we get older. Sure there are men fathering children in their 60's and 70's even, but women have children in older age now too.
It's not just that. There are plenty of women who wouldn't consider having a child with someone in middle age or older due to the potential for them to not be around in the child's late teens.
Men can miss the boat on having children easily as women, both biologically and through lost opportunities.
A |
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I sort of see where the OP is coming from, although I don't agree with everything stated.
I'm 47 in a few weeks and, unless something goes very wrong, my chances of ever having kids are long gone. I always said I wouldn't want to be an old father, because it gets to a point where it's unfair on the child - parents without the energy to keep up with them.
Brother had just turned 43 when his son was born (my nephew is now 15 months old) and he is gorgeous but exhausting
And the final nail in my parenting coffin came last weekend - a friend read my palm and exclamamed "Oh, three children!"
And I suppose by rights I should have three kids but each one ended, fairly early on, in miscarriage....  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Apart from modern times, it might have been a rough deal being a bloke. Yes, women faced death in pregnancy and childbirth but if survived a longer life whereas men were way more likely to die just in every day life through danger and very rarely lived long lives
So yes unfair now but the history maybe not??? Food for thought ... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"But would men want children past a certain age? I have a few male friends the same age as me who are childless and who have said they wouldn’t want children later in life because they want to be able to run around and play with them.
Children are exhausting. Lovely etc, but exhausting.
Unless you want to leave all the stuff to the younger mum to deal with, then they could be missing out.
They might not want them at a later age but they have the reassurance that they could have them at any age, and like you said they could just get themselves a partner of child bearing age. A woman can’t get herself a younger man and then she’d be able to have kids again.
I think knowing that your time to have a child WILL eventually run out puts a massive amount of pressure on women who want to have kids. A pressure that men will never know or understand.
I think that’s a bit unfair.
There are men out there who are with life partners who are unable to have children, who have that feeling right now.
Why does everything have to go off on a tangent? I’m not talking about people who can’t have kids or people who don’t want to have kids.
Just trying to help educate men so maybe they could take this conversation to the pub and then it gets discussed more. I really don’t believe guys stop and think for a moment the real reasons why women (who want to have children) want relationships whereas they’re generally more happy to go with the flow and don’t really care if they waste a couple of months or years with a woman cos they don’t have the tick tick of the clock in the back of their minds.
Just believe everyone would be on an equal playing field if guys also had a time limit. "
I get it. I’ve known a few women in their 30’s who are single and want kids. They were preoccupied with it and it did have an adverse affect on how men appeared to view them.
I’ve known women in their 30s who definitely don’t want kids and their approach to relationships is more relaxed and not unlike the men.
Since societal expectations have changed about marriage, the differences are becoming more obvious.
It was highlighted only last night in an episode of Naked Attraction I was watching. |
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"Why does everything have to go off on a tangent? I’m not talking about people who can’t have kids or people who don’t want to have kids.
Just trying to help educate men.... "
No, you're not - you posted something for debate, and it's being debated, with differing views and experiences coming in. Yet it feels like you just want everyone to blindly agree with you that women have it worse. Which frankly is, at best, divisive and at worst corrosive, IMO |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"But would men want children past a certain age? I have a few male friends the same age as me who are childless and who have said they wouldn’t want children later in life because they want to be able to run around and play with them.
Children are exhausting. Lovely etc, but exhausting.
Unless you want to leave all the stuff to the younger mum to deal with, then they could be missing out.
They might not want them at a later age but they have the reassurance that they could have them at any age, and like you said they could just get themselves a partner of child bearing age. A woman can’t get herself a younger man and then she’d be able to have kids again.
I think knowing that your time to have a child WILL eventually run out puts a massive amount of pressure on women who want to have kids. A pressure that men will never know or understand.
I think that’s a bit unfair.
There are men out there who are with life partners who are unable to have children, who have that feeling right now.
Men are no different to women.
Fertility drops off as we get older. Sure there are men fathering children in their 60's and 70's even, but women have children in older age now too.
It's not just that. There are plenty of women who wouldn't consider having a child with someone in middle age or older due to the potential for them to not be around in the child's late teens.
Men can miss the boat on having children easily as women, both biologically and through lost opportunities.
A"
While I agree with you on this also being the case I don’t think it has the same psychological affect on men. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I sort of see where the OP is coming from, although I don't agree with everything stated.
I'm 47 in a few weeks and, unless something goes very wrong, my chances of ever having kids are long gone. I always said I wouldn't want to be an old father, because it gets to a point where it's unfair on the child - parents without the energy to keep up with them.
Brother had just turned 43 when his son was born (my nephew is now 15 months old) and he is gorgeous but exhausting
And the final nail in my parenting coffin came last weekend - a friend read my palm and exclamamed "Oh, three children!"
And I suppose by rights I should have three kids but each one ended, fairly early on, in miscarriage.... "
Sorry to hear that |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Are there that many guys who need educating?
Might be anecdotal, but I have more male friends who are up for settling down and starting families at whatever age if they find the right than not. But the key is the right person.
The few who don't always kind of resemble Chazz from Wedding Crashers. |
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By *bi HaiveMan
over a year ago
Forum Mod Cheeseville, Somerset |
"But would men want children past a certain age? I have a few male friends the same age as me who are childless and who have said they wouldn’t want children later in life because they want to be able to run around and play with them.
Children are exhausting. Lovely etc, but exhausting.
Unless you want to leave all the stuff to the younger mum to deal with, then they could be missing out.
They might not want them at a later age but they have the reassurance that they could have them at any age, and like you said they could just get themselves a partner of child bearing age. A woman can’t get herself a younger man and then she’d be able to have kids again.
I think knowing that your time to have a child WILL eventually run out puts a massive amount of pressure on women who want to have kids. A pressure that men will never know or understand.
I think that’s a bit unfair.
There are men out there who are with life partners who are unable to have children, who have that feeling right now.
Men are no different to women.
Fertility drops off as we get older. Sure there are men fathering children in their 60's and 70's even, but women have children in older age now too.
It's not just that. There are plenty of women who wouldn't consider having a child with someone in middle age or older due to the potential for them to not be around in the child's late teens.
Men can miss the boat on having children easily as women, both biologically and through lost opportunities.
A
While I agree with you on this also being the case I don’t think it has the same psychological affect on men."
I disagree.
In both a previous marriage and the present I've experienced miscarriages. I'm now at an age that whilst I am a non-biological dad I've never had my own child and despite trying that doesn't appear on the cards anytime soon. Becoming a father to a child who may lose a parent at an early age has never appealed to me.
So can men be affected psychologically? Damn right they can.
Women may carry the child but trust me there are plenty of single men out there in their 40's who stand fuck all chance of ever becoming a parent unless they stumble across someone whod gladly shack up with them because she feels her clock is ticking.
A |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"We do have a clock one much worse than womens.
One that requires a blue pill.
After a certain age women can no longer have children which gives woman a new kind of freedom, whereas most men can prooduce children right up until death of old age.
Which would you prefer.
Being able to fuck until you are 102 without pharma help and not having to wory about pregnancy.
Or
Needing pharma. so you can fuck and always being concerned about pregnancy."
Vasectomy is an option for men who don't want to get a woman pregnant. They don't need to stress about it  |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Why does everything have to go off on a tangent? I’m not talking about people who can’t have kids or people who don’t want to have kids.
Just trying to help educate men....
No, you're not - you posted something for debate, and it's being debated, with differing views and experiences coming in. Yet it feels like you just want everyone to blindly agree with you that women have it worse. Which frankly is, at best, divisive and at worst corrosive, IMO"
I didn’t say women have it worse. I just said it would be more fair if everyone was on the same playing field and men had the same biological clock governing them as women do.
Yes I know with medical intervention it would be possible for a woman of 60 to have a child but there’s reasons why periods stop at a certain age, it’s because the body is not meant to deal with the stress and physical demands a pregnancy puts on your body at that age. I can’t imagine being pregnant at 60, I’m 36 now and already I feel pain more than what I did when I was 26.
But you know what, fuck it. Have the fucking thread. Everyone’s gonna against me because it’s me.
I dunno how a statement like saying it would be way more fair if the biological clock affecting both men and women, I dunno how that can be argued against  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I think you're mixing two unrelated issues.
There is a limit on the number of eggs a woman can produce, and therefore they "need" to find a partner to have a child (if they want to have a child)
There is no "need" to find a life partner, this is a social construct humans have come up with. For plenty of mammals the males comes, does the deed and is never heard from again. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"But would men want children past a certain age? I have a few male friends the same age as me who are childless and who have said they wouldn’t want children later in life because they want to be able to run around and play with them.
Children are exhausting. Lovely etc, but exhausting.
Unless you want to leave all the stuff to the younger mum to deal with, then they could be missing out.
They might not want them at a later age but they have the reassurance that they could have them at any age, and like you said they could just get themselves a partner of child bearing age. A woman can’t get herself a younger man and then she’d be able to have kids again.
I think knowing that your time to have a child WILL eventually run out puts a massive amount of pressure on women who want to have kids. A pressure that men will never know or understand.
I think that’s a bit unfair.
There are men out there who are with life partners who are unable to have children, who have that feeling right now.
Men are no different to women.
Fertility drops off as we get older. Sure there are men fathering children in their 60's and 70's even, but women have children in older age now too.
It's not just that. There are plenty of women who wouldn't consider having a child with someone in middle age or older due to the potential for them to not be around in the child's late teens.
Men can miss the boat on having children easily as women, both biologically and through lost opportunities.
A
While I agree with you on this also being the case I don’t think it has the same psychological affect on men.
I disagree.
In both a previous marriage and the present I've experienced miscarriages. I'm now at an age that whilst I am a non-biological dad I've never had my own child and despite trying that doesn't appear on the cards anytime soon. Becoming a father to a child who may lose a parent at an early age has never appealed to me.
So can men be affected psychologically? Damn right they can.
Women may carry the child but trust me there are plenty of single men out there in their 40's who stand fuck all chance of ever becoming a parent unless they stumble across someone whod gladly shack up with them because she feels her clock is ticking.
A"
Again I’m sorry to hear about the miscarriages A. That is an awful experience for any potential parents to endure. And I’m not suggesting for a moment that men do not feel similarly in the circumstances you describe or other relevant situations. However I don’t think it is as obvious generally that men feel the same psychological pressure as women to the ticking of the biological clock as it might be for some in more specific circumstances. |
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I wasn’t mature enough in my late teens and early twenties to be a father. Unfortunately I didn’t align with my girlfriends body clock and we parted ways because I still wanted to chase my career and travel aspirations.
I don’t regret it one bit. Had my swimmers checked last year and they were practically jumping out the sample pot so it does seem somewhat biologically unfair. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Some men do;
as some men get older they look for freedom, want to cut their ties, do things on their own, have their own privacy, and live life as they please
a bit different from a female who wants family as she ages, |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Why does everything have to go off on a tangent? I’m not talking about people who can’t have kids or people who don’t want to have kids.
Just trying to help educate men....
No, you're not - you posted something for debate, and it's being debated, with differing views and experiences coming in. Yet it feels like you just want everyone to blindly agree with you that women have it worse. Which frankly is, at best, divisive and at worst corrosive, IMO
I didn’t say women have it worse. I just said it would be more fair if everyone was on the same playing field and men had the same biological clock governing them as women do.
Yes I know with medical intervention it would be possible for a woman of 60 to have a child but there’s reasons why periods stop at a certain age, it’s because the body is not meant to deal with the stress and physical demands a pregnancy puts on your body at that age. I can’t imagine being pregnant at 60, I’m 36 now and already I feel pain more than what I did when I was 26.
But you know what, fuck it. Have the fucking thread. Everyone’s gonna against me because it’s me.
I dunno how a statement like saying it would be way more fair if the biological clock affecting both men and women, I dunno how that can be argued against "
I think it is because there are circumstances in which men also feel the issue acutely as well.
Not everyone is disagreeing with you if you read the thread and it is creating a good exchange of views. There are lots of emotions undermining the posts on this thread and it’s inevitable it will get a bit heated. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
But you know what, fuck it. Have the fucking thread. Everyone’s gonna against me because it’s me.
I dunno how a statement like saying it would be way more fair if the biological clock affecting both men and women, I dunno how that can be argued against "
Because it's one factor in having children and there are many many more. Don't get your tits in a tangle, you were putting your point across well. It doesn't matter if not everyone agrees. |
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I suppose if the sexes were governed by the sane clock, at the same time, there'd be even more people getting together just for the sake of creating kids, then splitting up because they don't like each other and leaving even more fatherless/motherless children in the world.
Which doesn't feel like progress, somehow |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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yep have kids contribute to climate change
the real cause of climate change is over population of humans
everyone should cut down on popping out kids
1960 world population 3 billion
Today 7.7 billion |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Why does everything have to go off on a tangent? I’m not talking about people who can’t have kids or people who don’t want to have kids.
Just trying to help educate men....
No, you're not - you posted something for debate, and it's being debated, with differing views and experiences coming in. Yet it feels like you just want everyone to blindly agree with you that women have it worse. Which frankly is, at best, divisive and at worst corrosive, IMO
I didn’t say women have it worse. I just said it would be more fair if everyone was on the same playing field and men had the same biological clock governing them as women do.
Yes I know with medical intervention it would be possible for a woman of 60 to have a child but there’s reasons why periods stop at a certain age, it’s because the body is not meant to deal with the stress and physical demands a pregnancy puts on your body at that age. I can’t imagine being pregnant at 60, I’m 36 now and already I feel pain more than what I did when I was 26.
But you know what, fuck it. Have the fucking thread. Everyone’s gonna against me because it’s me.
I dunno how a statement like saying it would be way more fair if the biological clock affecting both men and women, I dunno how that can be argued against
I think it is because there are circumstances in which men also feel the issue acutely as well.
Not everyone is disagreeing with you if you read the thread and it is creating a good exchange of views. There are lots of emotions undermining the posts on this thread and it’s inevitable it will get a bit heated."
I know but it’s like oh but people can do this and people can do that and medical intervention blah blah blah when it’s just suppose to be simple and like yeah it would work better if our procreating years were the same. Men and women would teach the same stages at the same age as each other.
There’s medication I need that I won’t take and they’re reluctant to give to me because of my age. Once I stop taking it it would take 5 years to leave my system (you can’t conceive on it) Although I don’t have a partner I wouldn’t want to rule myself out of not being able to have a child in the next 5 years. I’d be 41 and had it explained to me in great detail the difficulties I would face, so I ain’t taking it. (It’s not life threatening before anyone says I’m stupid for refusing meds) |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I suppose if the sexes were governed by the sane clock, at the same time, there'd be even more people getting together just for the sake of creating kids, then splitting up because they don't like each other and leaving even more fatherless/motherless children in the world.
Which doesn't feel like progress, somehow "
You know, just because you split up it doesn't make your children motherless or fatherless. That happens due to neglect and spite and basically being a fucking failure as a parent and a person. I've been separated from my ex husband for seven years and my son has both his parents firmly in his life and is supported and guided by both every single day. It doesn't matter how you get on as long as you both put the child first... If you don't then in my eyes you've failed. Even if you stay married, you've failed. |
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By *a LunaWoman
over a year ago
South Wales |
"I suppose if the sexes were governed by the sane clock, at the same time, there'd be even more people getting together just for the sake of creating kids, then splitting up because they don't like each other and leaving even more fatherless/motherless children in the world.
Which doesn't feel like progress, somehow
You know, just because you split up it doesn't make your children motherless or fatherless. That happens due to neglect and spite and basically being a fucking failure as a parent and a person. I've been separated from my ex husband for seven years and my son has both his parents firmly in his life and is supported and guided by both every single day. It doesn't matter how you get on as long as you both put the child first... If you don't then in my eyes you've failed. Even if you stay married, you've failed. "
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"I suppose if the sexes were governed by the sane clock, at the same time, there'd be even more people getting together just for the sake of creating kids, then splitting up because they don't like each other and leaving even more fatherless/motherless children in the world.
Which doesn't feel like progress, somehow
You know, just because you split up it doesn't make your children motherless or fatherless. That happens due to neglect and spite and basically being a fucking failure as a parent and a person. I've been separated from my ex husband for seven years and my son has both his parents firmly in his life and is supported and guided by both every single day. It doesn't matter how you get on as long as you both put the child first... If you don't then in my eyes you've failed. Even if you stay married, you've failed. "
Good points well made
I didn't express myself that well above. Of course I realise that relationships fail, but I meant that having children shouldn't be seen as some kind of human right |
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"Why does everything have to go off on a tangent? I’m not talking about people who can’t have kids or people who don’t want to have kids.
Just trying to help educate men....
No, you're not - you posted something for debate, and it's being debated, with differing views and experiences coming in. Yet it feels like you just want everyone to blindly agree with you that women have it worse. Which frankly is, at best, divisive and at worst corrosive, IMO"
Agreed. And only women who fit into one particular mould. |
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By *ocbigMan
over a year ago
Birmingham |
All responses seems to have gone with the basic premise of the 'biological clock'. A quick google (amazingly!!) has contradictory reports/theories, but it seems to me to be another societal construct to excuse or explain behaviours, rather like Victorian women being subject to all sort of procedures to 'cure' their 'hysteria'
...otherwise knows as fainting because your corset is to tight..Not to belittle peoples desire to procreate, but how much is societal norms & pressure? |
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Men do have a ticking clock, older a man gets the less viable the sperm is. It has less motion, less count, genetic content degrades add with that ED issues. Just because a man say in his 90s could get someone pregnant the possibility is slim. Women due to healthier lifestyles are remaining fertile for longer which has added to higher age groups getting pregnant naturally.
It's natures way, men are able to produce massive amounts of sperm in their life in comparison to women's eggs. It's that way to spread their "seed" wide, look at it in terms of animal reproduction. Best genetics, fittest and most virile males produce the most offspring.
The human body does have a clock regardless of sex.
Fact for you the woman's body actively tries not to get pregnant so only the most successful genetics survive. Periods and early pregnancy is basically a war zone on fertilized and unfertilized ova to try to ensure that the body will only carry a pregnancy which drains an enormous amount of energy, putting that energy into reproducing the best genetic offspring. Not all pregnancies will end of course due to various reasons one of which being wonders of medicine.
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"I think you're mixing two unrelated issues.
There is a limit on the number of eggs a woman can produce, and therefore they "need" to find a partner to have a child (if they want to have a child)
There is no "need" to find a life partner, this is a social construct humans have come up with. For plenty of mammals the males comes, does the deed and is never heard from again. "
Oh how much easier my life would have been if he had just came and went (3times mind you!)  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I suppose if the sexes were governed by the sane clock, at the same time, there'd be even more people getting together just for the sake of creating kids, then splitting up because they don't like each other and leaving even more fatherless/motherless children in the world.
Which doesn't feel like progress, somehow
You know, just because you split up it doesn't make your children motherless or fatherless. That happens due to neglect and spite and basically being a fucking failure as a parent and a person. I've been separated from my ex husband for seven years and my son has both his parents firmly in his life and is supported and guided by both every single day. It doesn't matter how you get on as long as you both put the child first... If you don't then in my eyes you've failed. Even if you stay married, you've failed.
Good points well made
I didn't express myself that well above. Of course I realise that relationships fail, but I meant that having children shouldn't be seen as some kind of human right "
Oh i couldn't agree more, truly. It is NOT a right at all, it's a privilege. It's the biggest responsibility most of us will ever have in our whole lives. My marriage was an abject failure from day one and it damaged me as a woman a lot but my son thrived and is preparing to leave me for university. Despite the fact we failed as a couple we succeeded as parents because I, and for the most part he put our son first all the time. I was lucky enough to fall in love with someone for whom parenting was as important as it is to me and he's encouraged and supported me to prioritise my son from day one. If you choose not to do it then I respect that completely but if you are gonna do it then do it properly to the best of your ability. There are too many people it's denied to for you to do a half assed job. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I lose count of how many times women have said to me "Oh but it's ok for you, you can have children till you're 80, we have a biological clock ticking"
I might be biologically fertile, but how old do I want my kids to be when I die? Will I be able to kick a ball about with them when they're young teens? (I know this was mentioned above)
If I was lucky enough to fall in love again and we agreed to start a family how much older would I be than I am now? How much of a generation gap between me and my younger partner would be prectical?
I'm fond of saying I wasted my youth looking for the mother of my children and as I don't intend to waste my middle years doing the same I have resigned myself to the fact I won't be a dad.
There's too many of us on this planet anyway and I'm starting to get selfish and I'm enjoying being single so this is not a sad thing.
My clock is logical, rather than biological and the time has passed. |
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The fault does not lie with men nor with women.
The fault lies in social constructs.
For such 'liberated' people why do you never question accepted modern 'norms' such as monogamy , the shaming of what is labelled promiscuity and the refusal of 'the village' to raise every child regardless of parentage ?
Why do we still have finger pointing at women who can't name the father of their child? Why do we label children who had no say in the matter?
Why do you think that the nuclear family is a natural state of affairs ?
Women ffs..... if you want a baby have one. Just make sure you have a plan for its upkeep.
Stop shackling yourself to unwilling males for the sake of your biology and then blaming the man who is programmed to fuck at will......
Disclaimer: Well behaved men are those that constrain themselves because of their socialisation too. ......
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Something to think about but whoever created us was a little cruel in giving women a biological clock when the guy doesn’t have one.
How many men have been put off by a woman who seems like she just wants to settle down and start a family and seems a bit hurried in doing so, women in their 30’s and 40’s especially.
I wonder if guys ever stop to think why women have this urge to want to settle down whereas the guys have all the time in the world and can be quite casual about things.
The facts are every baby girl is born with around 2 million eggs, by the time that girl is a 30 year old woman up to 90% of her eggs have died. They say the best time to conceive and carry a child is your late teens and twenties. As you get older your chances of conceiving naturally get less and less and the risks get higher as you get older.
Now a man can carry on making sperm till the day he dies basically so he doesn’t have to think about the fact that his time to have a child could very well run out.
I believe that if men had a biological clock and they knew that by the time they reached 45 their chances of ever having a child could be gone. (I know women can have IVF and have children later than their 40’s) but natural conception is lower and the risk of complications is higher.
I believe that if men had the same time limit hanging over them, they would put a bit more effort into finding a life partner. They have a massive advantage over women when it comes to dating and they can be more relaxed as they don’t have to worry about whether this woman is going to waste their time or whether things will get serious.
Just think it’s a bit unfair, thoughts?
"
They do it last till they die pmsl  |
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By *adeiteWoman
over a year ago
Stafford |
The germs turn to eggs and sperm at the point in which babies have their gender.
So those 2 million eggs by the time that baby is born are actually under 1million.
By the time a woman hits her 40s shes only left with around 3% of her eggs left.
Where as look at men these days 60+ and still having babies.
Cruel joke really. |
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"But would men want children past a certain age? I have a few male friends the same age as me who are childless and who have said they wouldn’t want children later in life because they want to be able to run around and play with them.
Children are exhausting. Lovely etc, but exhausting.
Unless you want to leave all the stuff to the younger mum to deal with, then they could be missing out.
"
I have a Male family member who is in his mid 50’s and this kind of applies to him. Relatives and mates are always asking him and/or slagging him about why he doesn’t have any children. He said he always wanted to start a family but just feels it’s too late now, that due to his age he’s basically missed his chance and will inevitably never be a parent. I think he was still open to the idea/hopeful until his mid 40’s then I presume just gave up the idea as he was single and unmarried. |
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"The fault does not lie with men nor with women.
The fault lies in social constructs.
For such 'liberated' people why do you never question accepted modern 'norms' such as monogamy , the shaming of what is labelled promiscuity and the refusal of 'the village' to raise every child regardless of parentage ?
Why do we still have finger pointing at women who can't name the father of their child? Why do we label children who had no say in the matter?
Why do you think that the nuclear family is a natural state of affairs ?
Women ffs..... if you want a baby have one. Just make sure you have a plan for its upkeep.
Stop shackling yourself to unwilling males for the sake of your biology and then blaming the man who is programmed to fuck at will......
Disclaimer: Well behaved men are those that constrain themselves because of their socialisation too. ......
"
A good friend of mine has just become a mother for the first time at 39, through a sperm donor. She always wanted children but had never been in the right relationship for this to happen. She has planned as much as she can for childcare, support and suchlike. I think she is incredible. Why? Because despite society's move away from the nuclear family, it's still very difficult to step away from social norms when it comes to parenting. I think we still have a long way to go as a society - that programming won't disappear overnight.
Mrs TMN x |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I've met numerous people who grew up in traditional nuclear families with every monetary privilege and who are so fucked up and dysfunctional it's a joke. I've also met people who had nothing in the way of guidance or care from either parent and who've achieved things that blow my mind. There are NO guarantees. |
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"The fault does not lie with men nor with women.
The fault lies in social constructs.
For such 'liberated' people why do you never question accepted modern 'norms' such as monogamy , the shaming of what is labelled promiscuity and the refusal of 'the village' to raise every child regardless of parentage ?
Why do we still have finger pointing at women who can't name the father of their child? Why do we label children who had no say in the matter?
Why do you think that the nuclear family is a natural state of affairs ?
Women ffs..... if you want a baby have one. Just make sure you have a plan for its upkeep.
Stop shackling yourself to unwilling males for the sake of your biology and then blaming the man who is programmed to fuck at will......
Disclaimer: Well behaved men are those that constrain themselves because of their socialisation too. ......
"
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"I've met numerous people who grew up in traditional nuclear families with every monetary privilege and who are so fucked up and dysfunctional it's a joke. I've also met people who had nothing in the way of guidance or care from either parent and who've achieved things that blow my mind. There are NO guarantees. "
Granted
I grew up in a traditional nuclear family. Not fabulously rich by any stretch of the imagination but we weren't poor either.
Yet brother's got his shit together and I'm a bit of a fuck up |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I've met numerous people who grew up in traditional nuclear families with every monetary privilege and who are so fucked up and dysfunctional it's a joke. I've also met people who had nothing in the way of guidance or care from either parent and who've achieved things that blow my mind. There are NO guarantees.
Granted
I grew up in a traditional nuclear family. Not fabulously rich by any stretch of the imagination but we weren't poor either.
Yet brother's got his shit together and I'm a bit of a fuck up "
I think we're all a bit fucked up in our own way. For most of us life is like a burnt steak. Small, tough.. and the chips are always stacked against it |
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I think there is too much pressure on women who reach a certain to have children. I wonder if some then settle for second best in a partner and it all goes belly up or he is deliberately trapped. I also think it's better for a child to be in a stable one parent family than in a warring two parent family. |
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