FabSwingers.com > Forums > The Lounge > Madeline McCann
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"I completely agree, had your average Mr & Mrs 'Smith' done that they would of faced prosecution and the other children taken into care, or can you imagine the uproar if it had been a single mum!!!" I know someone who has just had this happen to her - although the kids were 8 and 15ish | |||
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"her parents have had enough blame directed at them. most important thing is finding her or finding out what happened to her" No they haven't, no where near enough! They're guilty of neglect at the very least, and whatever that poor child has/was/is being subjected to is 100% their fault too! | |||
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"That was a total freak. how many people do the same thing while on holiday. They were next door. No further away than someone with a big house would be from their kids. I think shes dead personally they just haven't found the body and probably never will, happens quite often. Horribly unfortunate story good luck too them." Next door? You obviously never saw the layout of the complex, where their apartment was and then the location of the restaurant they were at! | |||
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"That was a total freak. how many people do the same thing while on holiday. ." The irresponsible people do. | |||
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"That was a total freak. how many people do the same thing while on holiday. They were next door. No further away than someone with a big house would be from their kids. I think shes dead personally they just haven't found the body and probably never will, happens quite often. Horribly unfortunate story good luck too them." No they was'nt completely different being in own home and in another country they were at the other side of the complex eating dinner in the restaurant. Normal parents would either take the children with them or use onsite babysitting services they did neither and left all three children alone. All three were left but only oe taken. | |||
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"I completely agree I think the Portugese Police had the right idea with the McCanns being involved but the police got shut down by thinking about it." | |||
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"I completely agree I think the Portugese Police had the right idea with the McCanns being involved but the police got shut down by thinking about it. " Just like in the Ben Neadham case..the last person to see them,seem to know more than what they are admitting. | |||
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"Plenty of people do dumb ass shit with regards to neglecting the safety of their kids, so even though it doesn’t in anyway excuse the McCann’s, they are not on their own. What gets on my tits is the amount of coverage and support the press give them…. which must be a real slap in the face for those other parents who have had children taken and never get mentioned. " The media circus latches on to one couple and twists the facts for paper sales. They are not the only couple who have made a mistake. | |||
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"Plenty of people do dumb ass shit with regards to neglecting the safety of their kids, so even though it doesn’t in anyway excuse the McCann’s, they are not on their own. What gets on my tits is the amount of coverage and support the press give them…. which must be a real slap in the face for those other parents who have had children taken and never get mentioned. " | |||
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"her parents have had enough blame directed at them. most important thing is finding her or finding out what happened to her" No, its just another example of the inequalities within society. Because they're 'middle class professionals', its assumed that they're responsible parents who will put their children first. Had this been a 'working class' family social services would most definately have been involved and charges of neglect brought about. The irrisponsibility of the parents would certainly not have been swept under the carpet, while the mother plugs her book! | |||
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"her parents have had enough blame directed at them. most important thing is finding her or finding out what happened to her No, its just another example of the inequalities within society. Because they're 'middle class professionals', its assumed that they're responsible parents who will put their children first. Had this been a 'working class' family social services would most definately have been involved and charges of neglect brought about. The irrisponsibility of the parents would certainly not have been swept under the carpet, while the mother plugs her book! " the money they make funded the private investigation after the case was dropped | |||
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"her parents have had enough blame directed at them. most important thing is finding her or finding out what happened to her No, its just another example of the inequalities within society. Because they're 'middle class professionals', its assumed that they're responsible parents who will put their children first. Had this been a 'working class' family social services would most definately have been involved and charges of neglect brought about. The irrisponsibility of the parents would certainly not have been swept under the carpet, while the mother plugs her book! the money they make funded the private investigation after the case was dropped" An investigation which should never have been required in the first place | |||
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"her parents have had enough blame directed at them. most important thing is finding her or finding out what happened to her No, its just another example of the inequalities within society. Because they're 'middle class professionals', its assumed that they're responsible parents who will put their children first. Had this been a 'working class' family social services would most definately have been involved and charges of neglect brought about. The irrisponsibility of the parents would certainly not have been swept under the carpet, while the mother plugs her book! the money they make funded the private investigation after the case was dropped" And the money they are still making? After all this time just how much is there left to investigate? | |||
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"her parents have had enough blame directed at them. most important thing is finding her or finding out what happened to her No, its just another example of the inequalities within society. Because they're 'middle class professionals', its assumed that they're responsible parents who will put their children first. Had this been a 'working class' family social services would most definately have been involved and charges of neglect brought about. The irrisponsibility of the parents would certainly not have been swept under the carpet, while the mother plugs her book! the money they make funded the private investigation after the case was dropped And the money they are still making? After all this time just how much is there left to investigate? " I would have thought quite a bit as been left out, I know if it was one of mine I would never be able to give in until they were found | |||
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"Plenty of people do dumb ass shit with regards to neglecting the safety of their kids, so even though it doesn’t in anyway excuse the McCann’s, they are not on their own. What gets on my tits is the amount of coverage and support the press give them…. which must be a real slap in the face for those other parents who have had children taken and never get mentioned. The media circus latches on to one couple and twists the facts for paper sales. They are not the only couple who have made a mistake. " No but they are the only couple that had Max Clifford working for them, which got them the column inches, donations and book deal. It also put off the authorities from charging them with neglect. Which I think they should be. They are very lucky that the other two weren't taken at the same time. | |||
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"her parents have had enough blame directed at them. most important thing is finding her or finding out what happened to her No, its just another example of the inequalities within society. Because they're 'middle class professionals', its assumed that they're responsible parents who will put their children first. Had this been a 'working class' family social services would most definately have been involved and charges of neglect brought about. The irrisponsibility of the parents would certainly not have been swept under the carpet, while the mother plugs her book! the money they make funded the private investigation after the case was dropped And the money they are still making? After all this time just how much is there left to investigate? I would have thought quite a bit as been left out, I know if it was one of mine I would never be able to give in until they were found " They must have hired really shit investigators for the last few years then. | |||
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"for every Madeline McCann, Sara Payne, Holly Wells, Jessica Chapman and Milly Dowler.... there is lets a Damilola Taylor... certain types of "people" are good for newspapers.. and news programmes.. and therefore stay in the limelight for a lot longer.... in america it is called "pretty white girl syndrome"..... girls from "respectable" middle-class families and backgrounds whose parents used the news media effectively.... where as in contrast, the street murder of Damilola Taylor initially received little news coverage, with reports initially concentrating upon street crime levels and community policing, and largely ignoring the victim." was it though? i'm sure that there was a hell of a lot of coverage of Damilola at the time, or was it just that i had a son of the same age at the time so it felt so raw to read is it really still the case in this day and age that there are still racial and class inequalities within the press, i ask as i do not read them so i cannot judge, if it is then i'm shocked i would of liked to of thought our world had moved forward somewhat in the last few decades | |||
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"for every Madeline McCann, Sara Payne, Holly Wells, Jessica Chapman and Milly Dowler.... there is lets a Damilola Taylor... certain types of "people" are good for newspapers.. and news programmes.. and therefore stay in the limelight for a lot longer.... in america it is called "pretty white girl syndrome"..... girls from "respectable" middle-class families and backgrounds whose parents used the news media effectively.... where as in contrast, the street murder of Damilola Taylor initially received little news coverage, with reports initially concentrating upon street crime levels and community policing, and largely ignoring the victim." So Max Clifford, a well known PR specialist, HAD ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with it then. | |||
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"for every Madeline McCann, Sara Payne, Holly Wells, Jessica Chapman and Milly Dowler.... there is lets a Damilola Taylor... certain types of "people" are good for newspapers.. and news programmes.. and therefore stay in the limelight for a lot longer.... in america it is called "pretty white girl syndrome"..... girls from "respectable" middle-class families and backgrounds whose parents used the news media effectively.... where as in contrast, the street murder of Damilola Taylor initially received little news coverage, with reports initially concentrating upon street crime levels and community policing, and largely ignoring the victim. So Max Clifford, a well known PR specialist, HAD ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with it then. " And why was Max so interested in *cough* helping? | |||
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"for every Madeline McCann, Sara Payne, Holly Wells, Jessica Chapman and Milly Dowler.... there is lets a Damilola Taylor... certain types of "people" are good for newspapers.. and news programmes.. and therefore stay in the limelight for a lot longer.... in america it is called "pretty white girl syndrome"..... girls from "respectable" middle-class families and backgrounds whose parents used the news media effectively.... where as in contrast, the street murder of Damilola Taylor initially received little news coverage, with reports initially concentrating upon street crime levels and community policing, and largely ignoring the victim." To be fair Fabio, I don't think Damilola is a fair comparison as he was murdered and it is known as a fact to be the case. Ames Glover would have been a better choice. The 5 month old baby abducted from his dad's car (whilst he went to the bank and to pick up a takeaway) in Southall London. | |||
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"for every Madeline McCann, Sara Payne, Holly Wells, Jessica Chapman and Milly Dowler.... there is lets a Damilola Taylor... certain types of "people" are good for newspapers.. and news programmes.. and therefore stay in the limelight for a lot longer.... in america it is called "pretty white girl syndrome"..... girls from "respectable" middle-class families and backgrounds whose parents used the news media effectively.... where as in contrast, the street murder of Damilola Taylor initially received little news coverage, with reports initially concentrating upon street crime levels and community policing, and largely ignoring the victim." i think there is a difference between those instances you mention! damilola was KNOWN to have been murdered which was itself tragic! but madeline WASNT KNOWN to have been murdered! she went missing in tragic circumstances and people will always wonder and speculate as to what happened to her! hence the publicity the case recieves! i feel personally that there will never be ENOUGH publicity in such cases as missing children, because it keeps the public awareness going and shows those children they will NEVER be forgotten!! | |||
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"good on the Mccans for never giving up on their daughter. They will regret that choice for the rest of their lives and i doubt any amount of abuse hurled at them by the public will hurt them anymore than they already are. If it was my little one who was missing id be massively grateful of the publicity no matter how it came about." At what cost? I’m not saying their other kids could just forget they had another sister, but they were young enough to (for want of a better phrase) get over it and eventually return to some sort of out of the spotlight normality and enjoy the one and only childhood they will ever get. As it stands, they are the silent victims of stolen childhoods. | |||
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"good on the Mccans for never giving up on their daughter. They will regret that choice for the rest of their lives and i doubt any amount of abuse hurled at them by the public will hurt them anymore than they already are. If it was my little one who was missing id be massively grateful of the publicity no matter how it came about. At what cost? I’m not saying their other kids could just forget they had another sister, but they were young enough to (for want of a better phrase) get over it and eventually return to some sort of out of the spotlight normality and enjoy the one and only childhood they will ever get. As it stands, they are the silent victims of stolen childhoods." until shes found dead or alive you cant forget and you cant stop looking. im not even a parent but i know thats the case | |||
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"i have always found the Mccanns sinister in this case! even in their statements there are glaring inconsistesies! but apart from that! if you were the parents of a kid that had just recently gone missing two days before, would you sit for a family album with your other two kids as if nothing had happened? (which happened and was printed in the sun at the time) i personally would have been so inconsolable i wouldnt have been able to function properly, never mind top up the family album!! plus, if they had nothing to hide, why refuse to go back and be questioned by police? wouldnt this have helped hjn their effort to find out exactly what happened? " Sinister.. The perfect word to use about the McCann’s. Two doctors who wanted a quiet evening without the kids, who left them on their own in a strange apartment without anyone looking out for them… Who in their right minds would have done this when they were on the other side of the complex? What if they had woken in between the times that the McCann’s said they checked? I have heard every time from 30 minutes to 2 hours between visits! The only way to ensure they didn’t wake was to help them like only a doctor can… Sleeping draught! Of course just my opinion, but as the police found a (very small) forensic evidence in their hire car, who is to say that they didn’t overdo it and found her dead on one of their visits? Also, If she was taken, why take the child that can talk and knows the parents names and would miss them and then leave behind two babies who would be so much easier to take? Just doesn’t add up! Obviously I don’t know what happened, but whether they are guilty of child neglect or something more serious, they ARE guilty and they should have had the full forces of the law on the Polo has it spot on.. "The only people I feel really sorry for in all of this ... their other kids. What a great childhood they have had." | |||
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"Wow, everyone has an opinion on a case where the only 'facts' one can based one's views upon are those printed in the guttersnipe press. Kangaroo court anyone? Whatever the McCanns did or did not do that fateful night they have had to live with for five long years, and I'm sure they must have punished themselves every second that has passed between then and now more than anyone else possibly can. " | |||
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"i have always found the Mccanns sinister in this case! even in their statements there are glaring inconsistesies! but apart from that! if you were the parents of a kid that had just recently gone missing two days before, would you sit for a family album with your other two kids as if nothing had happened? (which happened and was printed in the sun at the time) i personally would have been so inconsolable i wouldnt have been able to function properly, never mind top up the family album!! plus, if they had nothing to hide, why refuse to go back and be questioned by police? wouldnt this have helped hjn their effort to find out exactly what happened? Sinister.. The perfect word to use about the McCann’s. Two doctors who wanted a quiet evening without the kids, who left them on their own in a strange apartment without anyone looking out for them… Who in their right minds would have done this when they were on the other side of the complex? What if they had woken in between the times that the McCann’s said they checked? I have heard every time from 30 minutes to 2 hours between visits! The only way to ensure they didn’t wake was to help them like only a doctor can… Sleeping draught! Of course just my opinion, but as the police found a (very small) forensic evidence in their hire car, who is to say that they didn’t overdo it and found her dead on one of their visits? Also, If she was taken, why take the child that can talk and knows the parents names and would miss them and then leave behind two babies who would be so much easier to take? Just doesn’t add up! Obviously I don’t know what happened, but whether they are guilty of child neglect or something more serious, they ARE guilty and they should have had the full forces of the law on the Polo has it spot on.. The only people I feel really sorry for in all of this ... their other kids. What a great childhood they have had. " rumor... you have had the balls to put what i've been thinking all along but didnt like to | |||
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"for every Madeline McCann, Sara Payne, Holly Wells, Jessica Chapman and Milly Dowler.... there is lets a Damilola Taylor... certain types of "people" are good for newspapers.. and news programmes.. and therefore stay in the limelight for a lot longer.... in america it is called "pretty white girl syndrome"..... girls from "respectable" middle-class families and backgrounds whose parents used the news media effectively.... where as in contrast, the street murder of Damilola Taylor initially received little news coverage, with reports initially concentrating upon street crime levels and community policing, and largely ignoring the victim. So Max Clifford, a well known PR specialist, HAD ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with it then. And why was Max so interested in *cough* helping?" Lol, for his own enrichment I should think, but _abio was implying, that the only reason the mccanns got the media time was because they were white middle class and well off, I'm simply pointing out that Max is almost certainly solely responsible for that. I wish he did the same for all the others mentioned, but you'd have to ask him as to why not. | |||
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"Wow, everyone has an opinion on a case where the only 'facts' one can based one's views upon are those printed in the guttersnipe press. Kangaroo court anyone? Whatever the McCanns did or did not do that fateful night they have had to live with for five long years, and I'm sure they must have punished themselves every second that has passed between then and now more than anyone else possibly can. " Guttersnipe press?? As a self confessed avid reader of the sun, how does that make you feel that you are perpetuating that type of journalism? Of course everyone has an opinion on the case, it is human nature to take what we have seen and heard to make judgements, despite what people on here say... Given the FACTS then... The McCanns left three children on their own in an apartment that was a good seven minutes walk away from where they were.. Seven there, seven back and five minutes to check on the kids.. Close on 20 minutes out of every 60 minutes? May just have taken them with them! 20 minutes out of every hour would have been a chore, especially to parents who would leave their children on their own, in a strange room, in a strange country... She was there at 9 but gone by 10? That narrows the "Abduction" timing down to a 40 minute slot! As Polo said, this is not just about the five years the parents have had to endure, it is also about those twins who were around a year old at the time. being subjected to the media and having parents, so wracked with guilt, that they seem to travel while the kids are looked after elsewhere. It may have been a stupid mistake, but it has never been judged so after all this time, it is too late.. Of course I feel for them.. If it was just a stupid mistake, they are paying for it big time. But if it were more sinister? Apart from guilt, they have got away with it! Search for Gerry McCann-abuse of power on Google and look at all the evidence put together.. Look at the interviews where Gerry and Kate refuse to answer questions. Where they openly admit that Maddy was a "problem" child.. Just one last comment on this thread.. Whatever happened, we all have to realise that a young life has been changed or snuffed out forever. This is not someone who was negligent to an animal, bad though that may be. This is a couple who left three children, under the age of five alone as stated above... All alone! For that alone, they should suffer long and hard.... | |||
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"Ok facts only 1. They left the kids alone, biggest mistake ever and they have to live with that. 2. That little girl has gone, probably forever but hopefully not. 3. Never any real eveidence to suggest foul play from the parents. Or they would be in jail right now. Yes they did wrong big time and yes the truth is not yet known as to the whereabouts of Maddie. So yes they should sell their books and do whatever they can to find the truth and hopefully their daughter. All the shit that has been printed about them makes ppl think that a proper investigation to find her is a waste of time. Did they do it? Maybe! Are they genuine grieving parents of an abducted kid? Maybe! Until anyone knows for sure the main point should be NEVER stop looking until we know and any views on the parents should be put aside. It's not really about Maddie anymore is just about the McCanns and that's wrong. " Fact 1 is not a fact only their word for that | |||
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"Get a grip! Attitudes like that have hampered the search from day 1. Fact! " well if 'fact' 1 isn't a fact,which it isn't,as sam says the poice only have their word for it then that would have hampered the search more than anything else. In 'fact' if 'fact' 1 is a lie the whole thing is built on a lie. I have no idea about the truth of any of it but you can't claim they left the kids in the room as fact. only they know that anything else is conjecture | |||
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" So any evidence ever given should be set aside as rubbish? " Evidence that suggests proof and evidence that proves truth are not the same thing..but then I don't have to worry about it as we never left our kids exposed to the same danger for the sake of getting pissed in a bar | |||
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"Utter bullshit! So any evidence ever given should be set aside as rubbish? Guilty until proven innocent now? As before it's attitudes like yours that have stopped a proper search. Imagine if it was your kid? I have kids and my main goal would be to find my daughter, not constantly trying to defend myself to people who clearly are not interested in helping. I for one hope they find her alive and any blame to the parents other than leaving them alone finally put to rest. " I think you're letting your emotions get the better of you - you were quoting facts - one of which isnt a fact as there is no eveidence to back it up just the word of what some people consider the prime suspects. If there wasn't a child involved would you believe anyone who just said "it wasn't me guv" | |||
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"Utter bullshit! So any evidence ever given should be set aside as rubbish? Guilty until proven innocent now? As before it's attitudes like yours that have stopped a proper search. Imagine if it was your kid? I have kids and my main goal would be to find my daughter, not constantly trying to defend myself to people who clearly are not interested in helping. I for one hope they find her alive and any blame to the parents other than leaving them alone finally put to rest. " Ok calm down please. It is a good debate and should be able to be debated without aggression. | |||
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"Yes and was more interested in making a fortune from it. Again the important issue here is forgotten. There's a kid missing ............ Oh let's write a best seller that will get massive publicity. " Hang on a minute we all know that they are guilty of neglect by their own admission - as has been pointed out they most other people would have been prosecuted for that at the very least. It seems that no one will ever know the truth of what happened but it was their neglect in one way or another that has led to this little gorl go missing. | |||
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"Wow, everyone has an opinion on a case where the only 'facts' one can based one's views upon are those printed in the guttersnipe press. Kangaroo court anyone? Whatever the McCanns did or did not do that fateful night they have had to live with for five long years, and I'm sure they must have punished themselves every second that has passed between then and now more than anyone else possibly can. " Which gutterpress? Either way, what people read in a newspaper or on the internet they can still make their minds up themselves surely ......probably the same way you do when you read your papers? My views are, they left their children alone while they went and sat in a Tapos bar eating. No food or night out is worth what happened next. They were irresponsible....and before anyone says "lots of people do it" then yes, lots of people in my eyes are irresponsible and I would never have dreamt of doing it. | |||
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"Wow, everyone has an opinion on a case where the only 'facts' one can based one's views upon are those printed in the guttersnipe press. Kangaroo court anyone? Whatever the McCanns did or did not do that fateful night they have had to live with for five long years, and I'm sure they must have punished themselves every second that has passed between then and now more than anyone else possibly can. Which gutterpress? Either way, what people read in a newspaper or on the internet they can still make their minds up themselves surely ......probably the same way you do when you read your papers? My views are, they left their children alone while they went and sat in a Tapos bar eating. No food or night out is worth what happened next. They were irresponsible....and before anyone says "lots of people do it" then yes, lots of people in my eyes are irresponsible and I would never have dreamt of doing it." Agree! | |||
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"I agree! And they should have been prosecuted for that. Although I think they have had punishment enough being without their daughter for years, they have to live with their decisions of that night and if someone abducted their daughter as a result of their neglect then they suffer daily with that thought. Still ....... Are they murderers? Only the McCanns know if they are guilty of any other crime here. They would have cracked long ago at the death of their daughter if they had a hand in it. Or maybe not! Either way innocent until proven otherwise. " Only they will know that to be honest unless some evidence comes forward. Now I have read some things that just don't make any sense, so something is suspect, and although I am half in half as to wether they had something to do with it....would anyone keep it in the media all the time if they did murder her?....or is that a smokescreen too and they think they are untouchable? Who knows.... | |||
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"Simple fact the kids should never have been alone x " Its a great thing to have hindsight. | |||
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"Simple fact the kids should never have been alone x Its a great thing to have hindsight." An even better thing to have is some common sense....and then in this instance there would have been no need for hindsight. | |||
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"Simple fact the kids should never have been alone x Its a great thing to have hindsight. An even better thing to have is some common sense....and then in this instance there would have been no need for hindsight." Exactly | |||
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"I still think that a tragic accident befell Madeleine and her parents and friends covered it up. " so do i ... i think they over tranquilised by accident. why only take one child ??? | |||
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"I still think that a tragic accident befell Madeleine and her parents and friends covered it up. so do i ... i think they over tranquilised by accident. why only take one child ???" "shopping to order" it's likely that they were looking for a certain type of child - plus a sinle person would find it hard to carry off 3 children | |||
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"I still think that a tragic accident befell Madeleine and her parents and friends covered it up. so do i ... i think they over tranquilised by accident. why only take one child ???" because when they got back one one child was dead? They found the childs blood in the boot of a hire car that the parents hired 3 days after the child went missing, it was assumed that they hired a car to move the body, and even tho they had no explination as to how her blood got in the car after she had been reported missing nothing ever came of it, without a body its very hard to press charges so all they have to do is make sure the bodys never found | |||
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"What ever happened to that boy that went missing in Crete? I know change of subject but I was just wondering? " Ben Needham....the last person to see him was his uncle....? | |||
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"What ever happened to that boy that went missing in Crete? I know change of subject but I was just wondering? Ben Needham....the last person to see him was his uncle....?" Oh right. I was too young to remember I might read up on it. As far as Maddie goes only the person/people will ever know the truth and I have a feeling they will take it to their graves. I can't believe the stupidity of the parents you might be intelligent and be doctors but don't mean you have common sense. | |||
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"so, either they were keeping an eye on the child, or just happened to try that door of that room in the whole complex is the only other options to over tranquilisation so they could have a nice peaceful, worry free night out. just dont get the bit about the happy family photo shoot shortly after... or the fact that the father kept his appointment for a game of tennis the day after she vanished.... and while i'm at it... what about her hair being found in the boot of the hire car that was hired after the crime" It was blood that was found I think. I can understand a hair being found, that could have been taken in there by the parents clothes....but blood is a different thing altogether. Did he really go play tennis the day after? | |||
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"so, either they were keeping an eye on the child, or just happened to try that door of that room in the whole complex is the only other options to over tranquilisation so they could have a nice peaceful, worry free night out. just dont get the bit about the happy family photo shoot shortly after... or the fact that the father kept his appointment for a game of tennis the day after she vanished.... and while i'm at it... what about her hair being found in the boot of the hire car that was hired after the crime It was blood that was found I think. I can understand a hair being found, that could have been taken in there by the parents clothes....but blood is a different thing altogether. Did he really go play tennis the day after?" as i remember from the initial reports, yes he did | |||
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"and here is the initial report . . . THE father of Madeleine McCann stunned hotel staff by organising a game of tennis while the massive hunt for his daughter was under way, it was revealed yesterday. Waiter Jose Baptista, 45, told how the staff were amazed by the calm demeanour of Gerry McCann and his wife Kate in the agonising days after Madeleine disappeared. Heart specialist Gerry, 39, is also said to have regularly wandered down to the tapas bar at the family’s holiday complex where he was given free bottles of wine to take back to his apartment. Mr Baptista added that staff at the Ocean Club resort in Praia da Luz rarely saw the McCanns display any emotion away from the TV cameras. “If my kid disappeared I’d go insane. I wouldn’t be able to function. They’d have to lock me away,” said Mr Baptista. “They were so cool about it. All the staff commented about how they were able to play tennis and take things calmly. Everybody around them seemed more upset than they were. " And the translation from Portuguese to English was done by which paper? | |||
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"and here is the initial report . . . THE father of Madeleine McCann stunned hotel staff by organising a game of tennis while the massive hunt for his daughter was under way, it was revealed yesterday. Waiter Jose Baptista, 45, told how the staff were amazed by the calm demeanour of Gerry McCann and his wife Kate in the agonising days after Madeleine disappeared. Heart specialist Gerry, 39, is also said to have regularly wandered down to the tapas bar at the family’s holiday complex where he was given free bottles of wine to take back to his apartment. Mr Baptista added that staff at the Ocean Club resort in Praia da Luz rarely saw the McCanns display any emotion away from the TV cameras. “If my kid disappeared I’d go insane. I wouldn’t be able to function. They’d have to lock me away,” said Mr Baptista. “They were so cool about it. All the staff commented about how they were able to play tennis and take things calmly. Everybody around them seemed more upset than they were. " Really? Now that's shocking! Did the Sun print that by any chance? Oh that's right they are so devious and cunning lets look like everything is ok. | |||
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"and here is the initial report . . . THE father of Madeleine McCann stunned hotel staff by organising a game of tennis while the massive hunt for his daughter was under way, it was revealed yesterday. Waiter Jose Baptista, 45, told how the staff were amazed by the calm demeanour of Gerry McCann and his wife Kate in the agonising days after Madeleine disappeared. Heart specialist Gerry, 39, is also said to have regularly wandered down to the tapas bar at the family’s holiday complex where he was given free bottles of wine to take back to his apartment. Mr Baptista added that staff at the Ocean Club resort in Praia da Luz rarely saw the McCanns display any emotion away from the TV cameras. “If my kid disappeared I’d go insane. I wouldn’t be able to function. They’d have to lock me away,” said Mr Baptista. “They were so cool about it. All the staff commented about how they were able to play tennis and take things calmly. Everybody around them seemed more upset than they were. Really? Now that's shocking! Did the Sun print that by any chance? Oh that's right they are so devious and cunning lets look like everything is ok. " the sun did cover this story i believe... but so did all the others . . choose your media ... its on them all | |||
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"and here is the initial report . . . THE father of Madeleine McCann stunned hotel staff by organising a game of tennis while the massive hunt for his daughter was under way, it was revealed yesterday. Waiter Jose Baptista, 45, told how the staff were amazed by the calm demeanour of Gerry McCann and his wife Kate in the agonising days after Madeleine disappeared. Heart specialist Gerry, 39, is also said to have regularly wandered down to the tapas bar at the family’s holiday complex where he was given free bottles of wine to take back to his apartment. Mr Baptista added that staff at the Ocean Club resort in Praia da Luz rarely saw the McCanns display any emotion away from the TV cameras. “If my kid disappeared I’d go insane. I wouldn’t be able to function. They’d have to lock me away,” said Mr Baptista. “They were so cool about it. All the staff commented about how they were able to play tennis and take things calmly. Everybody around them seemed more upset than they were. Really? Now that's shocking! Did the Sun print that by any chance? Oh that's right they are so devious and cunning lets look like everything is ok. the sun did cover this story i believe... but so did all the others . . choose your media ... its on them all" the copy & paste i done here is from a tennis blog.... nothing to do with the sun.... oh ... and it was a spanish tennis blog... not english or portugese | |||
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"It must be true then. Oh dear. Ffs! " read the whole post ...it does say choose your media ... be it paper, t.v. or radio ... they all reported on it | |||
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"It must be true then. Oh dear. Ffs! read the whole post ...it does say choose your media ... be it paper, t.v. or radio ... they all reported on it" Again ..... So it must be true then? You believe everything you read? Surprised the police don't convict people on the basis of printed stories. | |||
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"It must be true then. Oh dear. Ffs! read the whole post ...it does say choose your media ... be it paper, t.v. or radio ... they all reported on it Again ..... So it must be true then? You believe everything you read? Surprised the police don't convict people on the basis of printed stories. " again ... read ALL the post ... not just printed stories ... t.v. and radio too. do you read the whole of profiles too ?? | |||
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"i know a woman that worked at the complex 12 months prior to this happening she worked there as a nanny the complex offerd this service to all familys so there was no need for them to leave the children alone parents 100% to blame just hope this poor girl is still alive " Awww she must be to blame then for leaving the complex short of nanny staff. Jail her it's all her fault! | |||
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"her parents have had enough blame directed at them. most important thing is finding her or finding out what happened to herNo they haven't, no where near enough! They're guilty of neglect at the very least, and whatever that poor child has/was/is being subjected to is 100% their fault too!" I would imagine having to live with the knowledge of what has happened day in day out is more of a punishment than the courts could dish out. Also people stating the obvious afterwards using hindsight moves the debate no further on. You seem to be making out the parents giving the opportunity for a crime to be committed makes them as guilty as the person who actually committed the crime (be that murder, abduction or whatever) | |||
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"her parents have had enough blame directed at them. most important thing is finding her or finding out what happened to herNo they haven't, no where near enough! They're guilty of neglect at the very least, and whatever that poor child has/was/is being subjected to is 100% their fault too! Thank you! I would imagine having to live with the knowledge of what has happened day in day out is more of a punishment than the courts could dish out. Also people stating the obvious afterwards using hindsight moves the debate no further on. You seem to be making out the parents giving the opportunity for a crime to be committed makes them as guilty as the person who actually committed the crime (be that murder, abduction or whatever)" | |||
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"and here is the initial report . . . THE father of Madeleine McCann stunned hotel staff by organising a game of tennis while the massive hunt for his daughter was under way, it was revealed yesterday. Waiter Jose Baptista, 45, told how the staff were amazed by the calm demeanour of Gerry McCann and his wife Kate in the agonising days after Madeleine disappeared. Heart specialist Gerry, 39, is also said to have regularly wandered down to the tapas bar at the family’s holiday complex where he was given free bottles of wine to take back to his apartment. Mr Baptista added that staff at the Ocean Club resort in Praia da Luz rarely saw the McCanns display any emotion away from the TV cameras. “If my kid disappeared I’d go insane. I wouldn’t be able to function. They’d have to lock me away,” said Mr Baptista. “They were so cool about it. All the staff commented about how they were able to play tennis and take things calmly. Everybody around them seemed more upset than they were. Really? Now that's shocking! Did the Sun print that by any chance? Oh that's right they are so devious and cunning lets look like everything is ok. the sun did cover this story i believe... but so did all the others . . choose your media ... its on them all the copy & paste i done here is from a tennis blog.... nothing to do with the sun.... oh ... and it was a spanish tennis blog... not english or portugese" So its come from an unsubstantiated blog then? One which has a translation from Portuguese to Spanish then English. I don't think personally I would be quoting it. | |||
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"and here is the initial report . . . THE father of Madeleine McCann stunned hotel staff by organising a game of tennis while the massive hunt for his daughter was under way, it was revealed yesterday. Waiter Jose Baptista, 45, told how the staff were amazed by the calm demeanour of Gerry McCann and his wife Kate in the agonising days after Madeleine disappeared. Heart specialist Gerry, 39, is also said to have regularly wandered down to the tapas bar at the family’s holiday complex where he was given free bottles of wine to take back to his apartment. Mr Baptista added that staff at the Ocean Club resort in Praia da Luz rarely saw the McCanns display any emotion away from the TV cameras. “If my kid disappeared I’d go insane. I wouldn’t be able to function. They’d have to lock me away,” said Mr Baptista. “They were so cool about it. All the staff commented about how they were able to play tennis and take things calmly. Everybody around them seemed more upset than they were. Really? Now that's shocking! Did the Sun print that by any chance? Oh that's right they are so devious and cunning lets look like everything is ok. the sun did cover this story i believe... but so did all the others . . choose your media ... its on them all the copy & paste i done here is from a tennis blog.... nothing to do with the sun.... oh ... and it was a spanish tennis blog... not english or portugese So its come from an unsubstantiated blog then? One which has a translation from Portuguese to Spanish then English. I don't think personally I would be quoting it. " there is plenty of others to choose from darkthoughts... just this one was at the top of the page lol | |||
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"Mystery to me (as I put on here some time ago) was why her parents left three little children on their own in the first place. They wouldn't have done it at home so why when abroad made it right to do so. I feel for whatever happened to the little girl, but have no sympathy whatsoever for the parents as they should NEVER have been left alone. The one I think that should be re-opened and I have got every sympathy for the parents is the Ben Needham case where he disappeared whilst playing outside in his grandparents garden. His mother was on GMTV a while back he would be 21 I think this year. This has never got a fraction of the coverage of the McCann case, but there again he just came from an ordinary family. He didn't have the luxury of having Doctors for parents!!!!!" my thoughts evactly xx him xx | |||
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"some of the people here think they are in the Stories and Fantasy section of the forum. " just as a matter of interest was you there at the time to be able to say he didn't? | |||
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"some of the people here think they are in the Stories and Fantasy section of the forum. just as a matter of interest was you there at the time to be able to say he didn't?" Nope! But seems everyone else seems to think that they were to say that they did. | |||
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"some of the people here think they are in the Stories and Fantasy section of the forum. just as a matter of interest was you there at the time to be able to say he didn't? Nope! But seems everyone else seems to think that they were to say that they did. " they presume its true you presume its fantasy its all just presumption at the end of the day is it not? | |||
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"Anyone else find this thread distasteful? Poor kid. I say let the authorities deal with and then everyone can comment and give their views." I don't think it is distastful... I am betting that this conversation has come up in rooms and offices all over the country at some point because it is a mystery and it is so high profile...... i think only one person in the thread has raise the tempreture of it, i think most people have been reasoned and have treated the subject apprioately | |||
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"Anyone else find this thread distasteful? Poor kid. I say let the authorities deal with and then everyone can comment and give their views. I don't think it is distastful... I am betting that this conversation has come up in rooms and offices all over the country at some point because it is a mystery and it is so high profile...... i think only one person in the thread has raise the tempreture of it, i think most people have been reasoned and have treated the subject apprioately " Fair point Fabio. Its a touchy subject for any parent or anyone for that matter but whatever the outcome of the case, no-one will know the exact facts until the guilty are found out and nobody will know the true facts and can only speculate. Everyone has their opinions and once again on the forums a general post goes sour, seems to be a trend of late. | |||
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"It must be true then. Oh dear. Ffs! read the whole post ...it does say choose your media ... be it paper, t.v. or radio ... they all reported on it Again ..... So it must be true then? You believe everything you read? Surprised the police don't convict people on the basis of printed stories. again ... read ALL the post ... not just printed stories ... t.v. and radio too. do you read the whole of profiles too ??" Yes I read profiles, doesnt mean to say i believe all the bullshit in them either. | |||
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"So the McCanns were the only parents to take advantage of a childminder service offered by a holiday company? Forget the parents the person here that we need to think of is the child" Well said Petillante. Poor little mite, can only hope that if she is alive she's being well cared for. | |||
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"i know a woman that worked at the complex 12 months prior to this happening she worked there as a nanny the complex offerd this service to all familys so there was no need for them to leave the children alone parents 100% to blame just hope this poor girl is still alive Awww she must be to blame then for leaving the complex short of nanny staff. Jail her it's all her fault! " There is nothing like an adult debate is there | |||
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"Everyone has their opinions and once again on the forums a general post goes sour, seems to be a trend of late. " I think the debate (apart from a couple of posts which I addressed) has been a good one and has not turned sour at all. | |||
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"her parents have had enough blame directed at them. most important thing is finding her or finding out what happened to her No, its just another example of the inequalities within society. Because they're 'middle class professionals', its assumed that they're responsible parents who will put their children first. Had this been a 'working class' family social services would most definately have been involved and charges of neglect brought about. The irrisponsibility of the parents would certainly not have been swept under the carpet, while the mother plugs her book! the money they make funded the private investigation after the case was dropped" Also used to pay their mortgage amongst other expenses after it was refused charitable status. Shocking abuse of people's kindness. | |||
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"I have always believed her to be dead, nothing I have heard or seen since has altered that belief in the slightest.... I would be delighted to be proved wrong in my belief.....totally delighted. " would u really | |||
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"We were on holiday in lanzarote at the same time of her disappearance with our two children. Was appalled that they had left their children alone in the apartment. That thought had never entered our heads to leave the children alone even though the bar was just yards away. Someone who took her must have known this is what they did and took a chance . Portugal is renowned for paedos. They will have to live with that for the rest of their lives. Cant take chances with children." Portugal is renowned for paedos?...really? Is this based on evidence?..... | |||
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"We were on holiday in lanzarote at the same time of her disappearance with our two children. Was appalled that they had left their children alone in the apartment. That thought had never entered our heads to leave the children alone even though the bar was just yards away. Someone who took her must have known this is what they did and took a chance . Portugal is renowned for paedos. They will have to live with that for the rest of their lives. Cant take chances with children. Portugal is renowned for paedos?...really? Is this based on evidence?....." So is the UK.And the evidence can be read in any paper throughout the uk every day in relation to trials that are ongoing.!!!! | |||
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" Portugal is renowned for paedos?...really? Is this based on evidence?....." The Daily Mail said so a few years back..so it must be true | |||
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"There are some valid comments on this subject, but at the same time there is some utter bulls..t also being posted.Some people tend to forget where this has actually happened and the extent of authority and control is with the Portuguese and not the British. It makes things rather difficult. I would like to make a comment, but for certain and valid reasons I cant. Will let you all come to your own conclusions re that.!!!" I'd rather you just post your comment rather than attempt to guess what you are thinking... | |||
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"I worked in the travel industry for years, its true. So is Rhyl!!" So no real evidence then? Just your say so.....can you back it up as fact? | |||
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"I worked in the travel industry for years, its true. So is Rhyl!! So no real evidence then? Just your say so.....can you back it up as fact?" this lady cracks me up. everytime ive seen her pop up in threads its the same pattern of posting | |||
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"I worked in the travel industry for years, its true. So is Rhyl!! So no real evidence then? Just your say so.....can you back it up as fact? this lady cracks me up. everytime ive seen her pop up in threads its the same pattern of posting " Why get personal?..... | |||
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"I worked in the travel industry for years, its true. So is Rhyl!! So no real evidence then? Just your say so.....can you back it up as fact? this lady cracks me up. everytime ive seen her pop up in threads its the same pattern of posting " I have an image in my head of a fire heating metal vessels holding water. | |||
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"my opinion !!!" send her a 12 page dossier and she`ll prolly melt | |||
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"my opinion !!! send her a 12 page dossier and she`ll prolly melt " grow up you're behaving like a child And as for speaking about someone elses posting style have you looked at how you post yourself? the same can be said for you and the rest of the forum | |||
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"There are some valid comments on this subject, but at the same time there is some utter bulls..t also being posted.Some people tend to forget where this has actually happened and the extent of authority and control is with the Portuguese and not the British. It makes things rather difficult. I would like to make a comment, but for certain and valid reasons I cant. Will let you all come to your own conclusions re that.!!! I'd rather you just post your comment rather than attempt to guess what you are thinking..." Believe me I would love to. | |||
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" Believe me I would love to." Then by all means do so | |||
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"There are some valid comments on this subject, but at the same time there is some utter bulls..t also being posted.Some people tend to forget where this has actually happened and the extent of authority and control is with the Portuguese and not the British. It makes things rather difficult. I would like to make a comment, but for certain and valid reasons I cant. Will let you all come to your own conclusions re that.!!!" the mccanns are british, the tapas 9 are british and most of all madeliene mccann is british! hence, the british authorities CAN go for arrests after they review the case!! | |||
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"There are some valid comments on this subject, but at the same time there is some utter bulls..t also being posted.Some people tend to forget where this has actually happened and the extent of authority and control is with the Portuguese and not the British. It makes things rather difficult. I would like to make a comment, but for certain and valid reasons I cant. Will let you all come to your own conclusions re that.!!! the mccanns are british, the tapas 9 are british and most of all madeliene mccann is british! hence, the british authorities CAN go for arrests after they review the case!! " I dont recall saying they couldnt.!!! | |||
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"the mystery is why are the parents not in jail?" I think the real mystery here is where is Maddy. | |||
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"the mystery is why are the parents not in jail? I think the real mystery here is where is Maddy. " Think most people would love her to be found safe and sound | |||
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"the mystery is why are the parents not in jail?" One would think because there is just not enough evidence, and that's not just because there hasn't been a body to be able to determine cause of death. Back in the 80's a local man was convicted of murder and given life imprisonment and the girl's body has never been found. In that case there was evidence which clearly identified the person who was convicted. | |||
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"i think the parents killed that child that is my honest belief. i know it might be twisted but i genuinely believe that. If they cant get them for murder surely child neglect and endangerment is still a crime. plus another doosey why do they still have the other 2 children, children have been taken into care for far less. like parent getting imprisoned for not ensuring 15 year olds go to school when they are suppose to." 100% agree | |||
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"There are some valid comments on this subject, but at the same time there is some utter bulls..t also being posted.Some people tend to forget where this has actually happened and the extent of authority and control is with the Portuguese and not the British. It makes things rather difficult. I would like to make a comment, but for certain and valid reasons I cant. Will let you all come to your own conclusions re that.!!! I'd rather you just post your comment rather than attempt to guess what you are thinking... Believe me I would love to." Kinda defeats the object of making a contribution to a debate but don't actually say anything | |||
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"If one holds the belief that she was killed by one or both her parents then you must ask yourself the following questions: Then you have to ask yourself the following: Could someone who accidentally killed their own child, do so and then continue to have a normal meal in a restaurant with several other friends and act as though everything was normal? The murder or accident cannot have occured before the dinner (Do the research on all the last actual sightings of Madeline by third parties and you will see this is impossible) so then this means that the 'accident' or 'drug overdose' must have occured during the meal. Which means your then proposing that one parent would have to, during the meal, having discovered the body, come back to the table, acting like nothing has ever happened, and then covertly tell the other parent what has occured, and then they too have to act normal, the two of them in the extremely limited window of time that remains then have to come up with a plan to dispose of the body. At no time did they have any window to collude to do this privately, such a discussion would have to have occured in front of the other people present at the meal. If we get any answers remains to be seen." Your suppositions are wrong on so many levels and I don't have time to take you to task right now, but one point! If it were an accident, overdose of say a sleeping draught, why would they have noticed until the were back at the villa for the night? When checking on the kids (if indeed they did) why would they have gone round checking for breathing? That would suggest they were expecting one to be dead!! I would have thought that they would have put a head round the door or even listened outside, rather than going in and checking each one individually! | |||
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"If one holds the belief that she was killed by one or both her parents then you must ask yourself the following questions: Firstly - was it pre-meditated? ie did they deliberately plan to kill her, I am going to take a wild guess that most people would say 'No', however if your saying yes, then you must ask yourself why would they fly to Portugal to deliberately murder their own daughter with their other children present and 7 other friends in tow and what is the motive for such a complex scheme? If your answer is, 'They killed her by accident and attempted to cover it up by staging an abduction...' Then you have to ask yourself the following: Could someone who accidentally killed their own child, do so and then continue to have a normal meal in a restaurant with several other friends and act as though everything was normal? The murder or accident cannot have occured before the dinner (Do the research on all the last actual sightings of Madeline by third parties and you will see this is impossible) so then this means that the 'accident' or 'drug overdose' must have occured during the meal. Which means your then proposing that one parent would have to, during the meal, having discovered the body, come back to the table, acting like nothing has ever happened, and then covertly tell the other parent what has occured, and then they too have to act normal, the two of them in the extremely limited window of time that remains then have to come up with a plan to dispose of the body. At no time did they have any window to collude to do this privately, such a discussion would have to have occured in front of the other people present at the meal. I put it to you, that this proposition is completely far-fetched and virtually impossible. Yet this is what people claim time and again must have happened. If this theory is too have even the most remote chance of having happened, then all of the other guests of their party would have to have colluded in the murder. I suggest that scenario is firmly in the realms of fantasy. I am not defending the parents lack of supervision, that is a separate issue, which yes allowed for whatever did happen, to happen and I am sure they are all too aware of that and will be until the day they die, probably the worst punishment that could be inflicted upon them. If you read the evidence it seems pretty clear that the person who did the last check on the kids before Madelines mother, did so in a rather cursory fashion, then changed his statement to make it seem as though his check on the children was more thorough. Most likely this occured through guilt of wanting to have been seen to have done a better job than he actually did on the night. (It seems likely Madeline was already gone at this point as he didn't go far into the room to actually see her) Again putting the parenting issue to one side for the moment (I do not suggest this is unimportant, but merely suggest people open their eyes to other facts) Portugual was at the time of this abduction recovering from a massive child abuse case which had rocked the foundations of their church and high political circles. You can read about this, all the information is in public domain on it. When this all came out a number of very public and high ranking figures were arrested for sex with under age children and the scandal was massive. Children were also abducted in this case, or went missing from covenents and care homes. There are a great many wider considerations with this case. If we get any answers remains to be seen." Oooo I read that and just had a flashback to watching 'Crown Court' at lunchtimes | |||
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"Plenty of people do dumb ass shit with regards to neglecting the safety of their kids, so even though it doesn’t in anyway excuse the McCann’s, they are not on their own. What gets on my tits is the amount of coverage and support the press give them…. which must be a real slap in the face for those other parents who have had children taken and never get mentioned. " i agree imagine how they would feel knowing that david cameron set up a speacial task force of detectives a year ago solely to try to find or find out what happened to maddie mcann ..what about mr and mrs average who have had there children abducted i doubt the prime minister is gonna do the same for them as there not doctors. I feel the same law to apply to everbody in this case it does not as the parent have never been taken to task for child neglect. | |||
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"i know a woman that worked at the complex 12 months prior to this happening she worked there as a nanny the complex offerd this service to all familys so there was no need for them to leave the children alone parents 100% to blame just hope this poor girl is still alive " +1 | |||
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"Personally I'm sick of hearing about how awful it must be for the parents!! It was their fault, no one elses. Nothing to do with hindsight, just basic parenting skills which they failed on for their own selfish needs! The ONLY victim in this whole horrible mess is Madeleine and it breaks my heart to imagine what she must be going through " +1 | |||
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"Ok facts only 1. They left the kids alone, biggest mistake ever and they have to live with that. 2. That little girl has gone, probably forever but hopefully not. 3. Never any real eveidence to suggest foul play from the parents. Or they would be in jail right now. Yes they did wrong big time and yes the truth is not yet known as to the whereabouts of Maddie. So yes they should sell their books and do whatever they can to find the truth and hopefully their daughter. All the shit that has been printed about them makes ppl think that a proper investigation to find her is a waste of time. Did they do it? Maybe! Are they genuine grieving parents of an abducted kid? Maybe! Until anyone knows for sure the main point should be NEVER stop looking until we know and any views on the parents should be put aside. It's not really about Maddie anymore is just about the McCanns and that's wrong. " I'd never thought I'd be agreeing with this guy but I think he has put it very well; First find Maddie or her remains, Then and only then seek justice. Everybody is entitled to their opinions but that's all they are, merely opinions. | |||
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"Whatever happened to the innocent till proved guilty that so many British ( I put British because English, Welst, Scots and Irish have all fought for this right) in the past have fought and died for this right. No matter what media or street corner tales say at this present time the parents are innocent. " You missed the PRESUMED out of that quote | |||
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"Whatever happened to the innocent till proved guilty that so many British ( I put British because English, Welst, Scots and Irish have all fought for this right) in the past have fought and died for this right. No matter what media or street corner tales say at this present time the parents are innocent. You missed the PRESUMED out of that quote " Presumed, proved or even 'at present' doesn't make much difference. | |||
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