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The worst crimes
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By *hMyGawd OP Couple
over a year ago
Midlands |
What should we do with people convicted of the worst crimes?
For example, serious crimes against children?
Is paying tens of thousands of pounds per year, per inmate, to lock them up a fair solution?
Do any deserve the death penalty? For example, terrorists who kill innocent civilians? |
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"What should we do with people convicted of the worst crimes?
For example, serious crimes against children?
Is paying tens of thousands of pounds per year, per inmate, to lock them up a fair solution?
Do any deserve the death penalty? For example, terrorists who kill innocent civilians?"
There is a reason that we dont exectute inmates any more. What if you were to convict somebody and then execute them only to find later that they were completely innocent? You cant exactly unexecute them can you? |
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"What if it's a case where there's irrefutable DNA evidence, video evidence, multiple credible witnesses and/or a confession?"
Spending time at her majesties pleasure and out of society is still the best the best punishment. Execution is an easy way out. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Think we already have a system in place?
Any novelty ideas to replace it, are a lovely concept, but usually without substance or the ability to be implemented. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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One problem with the death penalty that is often overlooked, is if you are at risk of receiving it, you increase your prospects by killing all the witnesses.
I would like to see longer sentences like the USA use e.g. 350 years with the standard offer of parole option at mid sentence of course. |
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By *mmmMaybeCouple
over a year ago
West Wales |
"One problem with the death penalty that is often overlooked, is if you are at risk of receiving it, you increase your prospects by killing all the witnesses.
I would like to see longer sentences like the USA use e.g. 350 years with the standard offer of parole option at mid sentence of course. "
Exactly this too, if more people saw life as meaning life fewer would be screaming for the death penalty, I’ve always said the word concurrent should be replaced with consecutive anyway got all crimes or it looks like you do time for one & little or nothing for everything else.
S |
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By *stellaWoman
over a year ago
London |
Something that’s often overlooked in the capital punishment debate is that statistics show that the death penalty leads to a brutalisation of society and an actual increase in murder rate.
“In the USA, more murders take place in states where capital punishment is allowed. In 2010, the murder rate in states where the death penalty has been abolished was 4.01 per cent per 100,000 people. In states where the death penalty is used, the figure was 5.00 per cent. These calculations are based on figures from the FBI. The gap between death penalty states and non-death penalty states rose considerably from 4 per cent difference in 1990 to 25 per cent in 2010.” Source: FBI Uniform Crime Report, from Death Penalty Information Center |
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By *mmmMaybeCouple
over a year ago
West Wales |
"The death penalty was abolished for reasons which haven't changed. "
& there are people given life then who died in prison....That would rarely happen now. If it did fewer people would call for the reintroduction of the death sentence..
S |
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By *aitonelMan
over a year ago
Liverpool |
In regards to the death penalty, its a tricky one, it really is.
Some people commit unforgivable crimes, irredeemable crimes. Those that do I honestly do not care what happens to them. I have no sympathy or concern for their future.
However, taking the life of another person in the name of justice is quite warped. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The death penalty was abolished for reasons which haven't changed.
& there are people given life then who died in prison....That would rarely happen now. If it did fewer people would call for the reintroduction of the death sentence..
S"
Then you will need more prisons. Which I don't think is top of Boris's to do list, his party have brought the prison system to its knees. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Surely it's not about the risk of if people would commit more serious crimes it's about getting rid of them to save money  , these fuckers don't deserve to live. |
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By *ea monkeyMan
over a year ago
Manchester (he/him) |
"In regards to the death penalty, its a tricky one, it really is.
Some people commit unforgivable crimes, irredeemable crimes. Those that do I honestly do not care what happens to them. I have no sympathy or concern for their future.
However, taking the life of another person in the name of justice is quite warped. "
An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth, leaves everyone toothless and blind.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I'd use them to do community service type things, cleaning graffiti, picking litter etc.
And use them in place of animals for testing of products/ medicine/ cosmetics etc.
And keep them in prison the rest of the time. At least they'd be useful rather than just a drain on society.
|
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By *mmmMaybeCouple
over a year ago
West Wales |
"The death penalty was abolished for reasons which haven't changed.
& there are people given life then who died in prison....That would rarely happen now. If it did fewer people would call for the reintroduction of the death sentence..
S
Then you will need more prisons. Which I don't think is top of Boris's to do list, his party have brought the prison system to its knees. "
Agreed, I’ve always said the now pretty standard 50% tariffs had less to do with law/order & public safety than it was to the lack of space in the prison system.
Personally I’d stop HS2 tomorrow @ shift all that money to building prisons & hospitals but what do I know 
S |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Surely it's not about the risk of if people would commit more serious crimes it's about getting rid of them to save money , these fuckers don't deserve to live."
I think a society where human life is measured in those terms wouldn't be a good idea. |
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By *stellaWoman
over a year ago
London |
"Surely it's not about the risk of if people would commit more serious crimes it's about getting rid of them to save money , these fuckers don't deserve to live."
Many people assume that the state saves money by employing the death penalty since an executed person no longer requires confinement, health care, and related expenses. But in the modern application of capital punishment, that assumption has been proven wrong.
The death penalty is far more expensive than a system utilising life-without-parole sentences as an alternative punishment. Some of the reasons for the high cost of the death penalty are the longer trials and appeals required when a person’s life is on the line, the need for more lawyers and experts on both sides of the case, and the relative rarity of executions. Most cases in which the death penalty is sought do not end up with the death penalty being imposed. And once a death sentence is imposed, the most likely outcome of the case is that the conviction or death sentence will be overturned in the courts. Most defendants who are sentenced to death essentially end up spending life in prison, but at a highly inflated cost because the death penalty was involved in the process. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Surely it's not about the risk of if people would commit more serious crimes it's about getting rid of them to save money , these fuckers don't deserve to live.
Many people assume that the state saves money by employing the death penalty since an executed person no longer requires confinement, health care, and related expenses. But in the modern application of capital punishment, that assumption has been proven wrong.
The death penalty is far more expensive than a system utilising life-without-parole sentences as an alternative punishment. Some of the reasons for the high cost of the death penalty are the longer trials and appeals required when a person’s life is on the line, the need for more lawyers and experts on both sides of the case, and the relative rarity of executions. Most cases in which the death penalty is sought do not end up with the death penalty being imposed. And once a death sentence is imposed, the most likely outcome of the case is that the conviction or death sentence will be overturned in the courts. Most defendants who are sentenced to death essentially end up spending life in prison, but at a highly inflated cost because the death penalty was involved in the process."
Fair enough. Still the bastards don't deserve to live either way |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Surely it's not about the risk of if people would commit more serious crimes it's about getting rid of them to save money , these fuckers don't deserve to live.
I think a society where human life is measured in those terms wouldn't be a good idea. "
What do you mean |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"One problem with the death penalty that is often overlooked, is if you are at risk of receiving it, you increase your prospects by killing all the witnesses.
I would like to see longer sentences like the USA use e.g. 350 years with the standard offer of parole option at mid sentence of course. "
definitely this sentences need to be longer and harder talking from experience it never deterred anyone I no. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Surely it's not about the risk of if people would commit more serious crimes it's about getting rid of them to save money , these fuckers don't deserve to live.
I think a society where human life is measured in those terms wouldn't be a good idea.
What do you mean "
I mean that killing people to save money (if it did, as Estella has pointed out it doesn't) doesn't indicate a civilised society. The law is about justice, not convenience or revenge. |
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"One problem with the death penalty that is often overlooked, is if you are at risk of receiving it, you increase your prospects by killing all the witnesses.
I would like to see longer sentences like the USA use e.g. 350 years with the standard offer of parole option at mid sentence of course. "
What would be the point of that? We already have a life tariff for crimes so heinous that they will never be let out. |
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By *aitonelMan
over a year ago
Liverpool |
"I'd use them to do community service type things, cleaning graffiti, picking litter etc.
And use them in place of animals for testing of products/ medicine/ cosmetics etc.
And keep them in prison the rest of the time. At least they'd be useful rather than just a drain on society.
"
I agree, certainly should be a more practical use for them overall. |
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By *stellaWoman
over a year ago
London |
" Fair enough. Still the bastards don't deserve to live either way "
This argument states that real justice requires people to suffer for their wrongdoing, and to suffer in a way appropriate for the crime. Each criminal should get what their crime deserves and in the case of a murderer what their crime deserves is death. Many people find that this argument fits with their inherent sense of justice. It's often supported with the argument "An eye for an eye". But to argue like that demonstrates a complete misunderstanding of what that Old Testament phrase actually means. In fact the Old Testament meaning of "an eye for an eye" is that only the guilty should be punished, and they should be punished neither *too leniently* or *too severely*.
The arguments against retribution - capital punishment is vengeance rather than retribution and, as such, is a morally dubious concept. Secondly, the anticipatory suffering of the criminal, who may be kept on death row for many years, makes the punishment more severe than just depriving the criminal of life. |
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"Surely it's not about the risk of if people would commit more serious crimes it's about getting rid of them to save money , these fuckers don't deserve to live."
And who are you to judge them? Clearly you have many years experience in the justice system and have seen the best in worst in it. Oh right, I'm not sure that are. |
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"What if it's a case where there's irrefutable DNA evidence, video evidence, multiple credible witnesses and/or a confession?
Spending time at her majesties pleasure and out of society is still the best the best punishment. Execution is an easy way out."
Tell that to the relatives
 |
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"I'd use them to do community service type things, cleaning graffiti, picking litter etc.
And use them in place of animals for testing of products/ medicine/ cosmetics etc.
And keep them in prison the rest of the time. At least they'd be useful rather than just a drain on society.
"
Didnt the nazis do something similar? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
The whole system needs changing in my view. Many crimes are committed by people that got mixed up with the wrong crowd or weren't brought up particularly well so how can you expect them to change when they are all thrown together in a community full of reprobates? From what I can tell prison is just a sheltered community for these people, not a punishment like it's meant to be.
How can we expect these people to improve? The majority are childish, immature or just down right thugs. How can they learn a better path when they are mixing daily with other low lifes?!
I think prisons should be more solitary rather than the communities they are to allow them to reflect and to deny them the social interaction they want, especially if that social interaction is with other criminals!
|
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I'd use them to do community service type things, cleaning graffiti, picking litter etc.
And use them in place of animals for testing of products/ medicine/ cosmetics etc.
And keep them in prison the rest of the time. At least they'd be useful rather than just a drain on society.
Didnt the nazis do something similar?"
I just think they should be useful if we aren't going to execute them. I'm not looking for a debate, just my $0.02. |
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By *mmmMaybeCouple
over a year ago
West Wales |
"Surely it's not about the risk of if people would commit more serious crimes it's about getting rid of them to save money , these fuckers don't deserve to live.
Many people assume that the state saves money by employing the death penalty since an executed person no longer requires confinement, health care, and related expenses. But in the modern application of capital punishment, that assumption has been proven wrong.
The death penalty is far more expensive than a system utilising life-without-parole sentences as an alternative punishment. Some of the reasons for the high cost of the death penalty are the longer trials and appeals required when a person’s life is on the line, the need for more lawyers and experts on both sides of the case, and the relative rarity of executions. Most cases in which the death penalty is sought do not end up with the death penalty being imposed. And once a death sentence is imposed, the most likely outcome of the case is that the conviction or death sentence will be overturned in the courts. Most defendants who are sentenced to death essentially end up spending life in prison, but at a highly inflated cost because the death penalty was involved in the process."
Based on the totally crass & disgusting American system of justice where guilty (as in they DID do it) sit for multiple years on death row because of some minor infringement of not crossing a t or fitting an I...ad Infinitum
That plainly does not work, I am more talking straight forward, we caught you, the murder weapon is plastered with their blood & your DNA & we have CCTV of you putting the body in your car. Type of cases.
You go to court you get time for an appeal of the facts! Not of what your motive was, not because Syd in records put your file under R instead of S or whatever... If you did it you did it & if you didn’t you didn’t nothing else matters....
After that appeal off you jolly well trot...
S |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Too much room for error on death penalty...
Peados and repeat sex offenders like serial rapists...chemical castration... and long sentences no rule 43... in with everyone else....on release permanent tagged.
Everyone serves full sentence...if you get 5 years you do 5 years... |
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"I'd use them to do community service type things, cleaning graffiti, picking litter etc.
And use them in place of animals for testing of products/ medicine/ cosmetics etc.
And keep them in prison the rest of the time. At least they'd be useful rather than just a drain on society.
Didnt the nazis do something similar?
I just think they should be useful if we aren't going to execute them. I'm not looking for a debate, just my $0.02."
I get what you mean, I just think that medical testing on subjects that didnt volunteer is morally bankrupt and a serious violation of human rights.
Surely if we spent more on trying to rehabilitate them back into society then they would be more likely to become a functioning member of society. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I'd use them to do community service type things, cleaning graffiti, picking litter etc.
And use them in place of animals for testing of products/ medicine/ cosmetics etc.
And keep them in prison the rest of the time. At least they'd be useful rather than just a drain on society.
Didnt the nazis do something similar?
I just think they should be useful if we aren't going to execute them. I'm not looking for a debate, just my $0.02.
I get what you mean, I just think that medical testing on subjects that didnt volunteer is morally bankrupt and a serious violation of human rights.
Surely if we spent more on trying to rehabilitate them back into society then they would be more likely to become a functioning member of society."
Luckily, I'm here to support the rights of innocent animals over humans who've committed heinous crimes. If testing is absolutely necessary at all, it should be done on beings that aren't innocent. |
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By *stellaWoman
over a year ago
London |
"Surely it's not about the risk of if people would commit more serious crimes it's about getting rid of them to save money , these fuckers don't deserve to live.
Many people assume that the state saves money by employing the death penalty since an executed person no longer requires confinement, health care, and related expenses. But in the modern application of capital punishment, that assumption has been proven wrong.
The death penalty is far more expensive than a system utilising life-without-parole sentences as an alternative punishment. Some of the reasons for the high cost of the death penalty are the longer trials and appeals required when a person’s life is on the line, the need for more lawyers and experts on both sides of the case, and the relative rarity of executions. Most cases in which the death penalty is sought do not end up with the death penalty being imposed. And once a death sentence is imposed, the most likely outcome of the case is that the conviction or death sentence will be overturned in the courts. Most defendants who are sentenced to death essentially end up spending life in prison, but at a highly inflated cost because the death penalty was involved in the process.
Based on the totally crass & disgusting American system of justice where guilty (as in they DID do it) sit for multiple years on death row because of some minor infringement of not crossing a t or fitting an I...ad Infinitum
That plainly does not work, I am more talking straight forward, we caught you, the murder weapon is plastered with their blood & your DNA & we have CCTV of you putting the body in your car. Type of cases.
You go to court you get time for an appeal of the facts! Not of what your motive was, not because Syd in records put your file under R instead of S or whatever... If you did it you did it & if you didn’t you didn’t nothing else matters....
After that appeal off you jolly well trot...
S"
Are you implying motive is irrelevant?
|
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Surely it's not about the risk of if people would commit more serious crimes it's about getting rid of them to save money , these fuckers don't deserve to live.
I think a society where human life is measured in those terms wouldn't be a good idea.
What do you mean
I mean that killing people to save money (if it did, as Estella has pointed out it doesn't) doesn't indicate a civilised society. The law is about justice, not convenience or revenge. "
I'd feel alot more justice if someone who murdered my family was put to death than having a comfortable life in prison |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
" Fair enough. Still the bastards don't deserve to live either way
This argument states that real justice requires people to suffer for their wrongdoing, and to suffer in a way appropriate for the crime. Each criminal should get what their crime deserves and in the case of a murderer what their crime deserves is death. Many people find that this argument fits with their inherent sense of justice. It's often supported with the argument "An eye for an eye". But to argue like that demonstrates a complete misunderstanding of what that Old Testament phrase actually means. In fact the Old Testament meaning of "an eye for an eye" is that only the guilty should be punished, and they should be punished neither *too leniently* or *too severely*.
The arguments against retribution - capital punishment is vengeance rather than retribution and, as such, is a morally dubious concept. Secondly, the anticipatory suffering of the criminal, who may be kept on death row for many years, makes the punishment more severe than just depriving the criminal of life."
You're saying that death row is too harsh for some people ? Ted Bundy, Jeffrey dahmer, Ian Huntley and the list goes on don't deserve to suffer in the worst possible way ? I have to disagree with you |
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"I'd use them to do community service type things, cleaning graffiti, picking litter etc.
And use them in place of animals for testing of products/ medicine/ cosmetics etc.
And keep them in prison the rest of the time. At least they'd be useful rather than just a drain on society.
Didnt the nazis do something similar?
I just think they should be useful if we aren't going to execute them. I'm not looking for a debate, just my $0.02.
I get what you mean, I just think that medical testing on subjects that didnt volunteer is morally bankrupt and a serious violation of human rights.
Surely if we spent more on trying to rehabilitate them back into society then they would be more likely to become a functioning member of society.
Luckily, I'm here to support the rights of innocent animals over humans who've committed heinous crimes. If testing is absolutely necessary at all, it should be done on beings that aren't innocent."
I completely agree, it's just that isnt how the world works. Unfortunately exploitation seems to be part of the human condition. Plus I think you would be hard pressed to find a court that would favour an animal over a human being. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I'd use them to do community service type things, cleaning graffiti, picking litter etc.
And use them in place of animals for testing of products/ medicine/ cosmetics etc.
And keep them in prison the rest of the time. At least they'd be useful rather than just a drain on society.
Didnt the nazis do something similar?
I just think they should be useful if we aren't going to execute them. I'm not looking for a debate, just my $0.02.
I get what you mean, I just think that medical testing on subjects that didnt volunteer is morally bankrupt and a serious violation of human rights.
Surely if we spent more on trying to rehabilitate them back into society then they would be more likely to become a functioning member of society.
Luckily, I'm here to support the rights of innocent animals over humans who've committed heinous crimes. If testing is absolutely necessary at all, it should be done on beings that aren't innocent.
I completely agree, it's just that isnt how the world works. Unfortunately exploitation seems to be part of the human condition. Plus I think you would be hard pressed to find a court that would favour an animal over a human being."
It's a hypothetical thread, it's not likely that the system will change at all. But this is what I'd do if I had the power to change it. |
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By *mmmMaybeCouple
over a year ago
West Wales |
"The whole system needs changing in my view. Many crimes are committed by people that got mixed up with the wrong crowd or weren't brought up particularly well so how can you expect them to change when they are all thrown together in a community full of reprobates? From what I can tell prison is just a sheltered community for these people, not a punishment like it's meant to be.
How can we expect these people to improve? The majority are childish, immature or just down right thugs. How can they learn a better path when they are mixing daily with other low lifes?!
I think prisons should be more solitary rather than the communities they are to allow them to reflect and to deny them the social interaction they want, especially if that social interaction is with other criminals!
"
Sorry but I’m sick of hearing stuff like this!! I and a good few of my lifelong mates I’m still in touch with were born in Brixton (62 for me) they knocked our Victorian council houses down & moved us first to the Kidbrooke Estate in SE London & we later moved to the Thamesmead Estate also in SE London. If you’ve not heard of either may I suggest you look them up.
Lived there until I was 26, got in minor trouble with cops once when 16. That’s it, no drugs, no booze, no knives, no gangs no convictions....nothing...I as also a latch door kid fending for myself with both parents at work & I’ve managed through life to spend a total of six weeks out of work. People now have a predilection to crime because it’s easier than the alternative & it’s this thought that has to be removed.
S |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"What, like Trump?
The man that brought a real chance of peace in Korea? 
Gotta love you London types. Totally detatched from the views of the rest of the Western world."
He is in the process of throwing stones at the hornets nest known as Iran |
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"I'd use them to do community service type things, cleaning graffiti, picking litter etc.
And use them in place of animals for testing of products/ medicine/ cosmetics etc.
And keep them in prison the rest of the time. At least they'd be useful rather than just a drain on society.
Didnt the nazis do something similar?
I just think they should be useful if we aren't going to execute them. I'm not looking for a debate, just my $0.02.
I get what you mean, I just think that medical testing on subjects that didnt volunteer is morally bankrupt and a serious violation of human rights.
Surely if we spent more on trying to rehabilitate them back into society then they would be more likely to become a functioning member of society.
Luckily, I'm here to support the rights of innocent animals over humans who've committed heinous crimes. If testing is absolutely necessary at all, it should be done on beings that aren't innocent.
I completely agree, it's just that isnt how the world works. Unfortunately exploitation seems to be part of the human condition. Plus I think you would be hard pressed to find a court that would favour an animal over a human being.
It's a hypothetical thread, it's not likely that the system will change at all. But this is what I'd do if I had the power to change it."
Fair enough, sorry if you thought I was being funny, I wasn't. I just get carried away with stuff I'm passionate about |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The whole system needs changing in my view. Many crimes are committed by people that got mixed up with the wrong crowd or weren't brought up particularly well so how can you expect them to change when they are all thrown together in a community full of reprobates? From what I can tell prison is just a sheltered community for these people, not a punishment like it's meant to be.
How can we expect these people to improve? The majority are childish, immature or just down right thugs. How can they learn a better path when they are mixing daily with other low lifes?!
I think prisons should be more solitary rather than the communities they are to allow them to reflect and to deny them the social interaction they want, especially if that social interaction is with other criminals!
Sorry but I’m sick of hearing stuff like this!! I and a good few of my lifelong mates I’m still in touch with were born in Brixton (62 for me) they knocked our Victorian council houses down & moved us first to the Kidbrooke Estate in SE London & we later moved to the Thamesmead Estate also in SE London. If you’ve not heard of either may I suggest you look them up.
Lived there until I was 26, got in minor trouble with cops once when 16. That’s it, no drugs, no booze, no knives, no gangs no convictions....nothing...I as also a latch door kid fending for myself with both parents at work & I’ve managed through life to spend a total of six weeks out of work. People now have a predilection to crime because it’s easier than the alternative & it’s this thought that has to be removed.
S"
Its a very different world now...especially places like SE london... it's like comparing the Krays/Richardsons to the Albanian mafia and Somalian drug gangs |
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By *mmmMaybeCouple
over a year ago
West Wales |
"People always bang on about human rights but personally I feel it ludicrous when someone has violated or taken the human rights of another. "
This should be added to the Human rights act of all countries.
“If by your unlawful actions you infringe these same rights or cause suffering to any law abiding citizen this act becomes null void in any criminal proceedings or sentence following conviction & your Human rights will be restored upon your release”.
S
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By *mmmMaybeCouple
over a year ago
West Wales |
"The whole system needs changing in my view. Many crimes are committed by people that got mixed up with the wrong crowd or weren't brought up particularly well so how can you expect them to change when they are all thrown together in a community full of reprobates? From what I can tell prison is just a sheltered community for these people, not a punishment like it's meant to be.
How can we expect these people to improve? The majority are childish, immature or just down right thugs. How can they learn a better path when they are mixing daily with other low lifes?!
I think prisons should be more solitary rather than the communities they are to allow them to reflect and to deny them the social interaction they want, especially if that social interaction is with other criminals!
Sorry but I’m sick of hearing stuff like this!! I and a good few of my lifelong mates I’m still in touch with were born in Brixton (62 for me) they knocked our Victorian council houses down & moved us first to the Kidbrooke Estate in SE London & we later moved to the Thamesmead Estate also in SE London. If you’ve not heard of either may I suggest you look them up.
Lived there until I was 26, got in minor trouble with cops once when 16. That’s it, no drugs, no booze, no knives, no gangs no convictions....nothing...I as also a latch door kid fending for myself with both parents at work & I’ve managed through life to spend a total of six weeks out of work. People now have a predilection to crime because it’s easier than the alternative & it’s this thought that has to be removed.
S
Its a very different world now...especially places like SE london... it's like comparing the Krays/Richardsons to the Albanian mafia and Somalian drug gangs"
No doubt it will is, Islington was a shit hole back then I stand by m last statement though, stop pandering, start locking them up...for good. For that we need prisons.....
Boris said in his post election speech he will be looking at the 50% tariffs this year. I’ll be badgering the Cons on social media don’t worry.
S |
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By *stellaWoman
over a year ago
London |
"People always bang on about human rights but personally I feel it ludicrous when someone has violated or taken the human rights of another.
This should be added to the Human rights act of all countries.
“If by your unlawful actions you infringe these same rights or cause suffering to any law abiding citizen this act becomes null void in any criminal proceedings or sentence following conviction & your Human rights will be restored upon your release”.
S
"
It is clearly stated in the Human Rights Act under what cases it doesn’t apply already.
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"People always bang on about human rights but personally I feel it ludicrous when someone has violated or taken the human rights of another.
This should be added to the Human rights act of all countries.
“If by your unlawful actions you infringe these same rights or cause suffering to any law abiding citizen this act becomes null void in any criminal proceedings or sentence following conviction & your Human rights will be restored upon your release”.
S
"
Ahhh agreed but wouldn't that contravene their human rights |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The whole system needs changing in my view. Many crimes are committed by people that got mixed up with the wrong crowd or weren't brought up particularly well so how can you expect them to change when they are all thrown together in a community full of reprobates? From what I can tell prison is just a sheltered community for these people, not a punishment like it's meant to be.
How can we expect these people to improve? The majority are childish, immature or just down right thugs. How can they learn a better path when they are mixing daily with other low lifes?!
I think prisons should be more solitary rather than the communities they are to allow them to reflect and to deny them the social interaction they want, especially if that social interaction is with other criminals!
Sorry but I’m sick of hearing stuff like this!! I and a good few of my lifelong mates I’m still in touch with were born in Brixton (62 for me) they knocked our Victorian council houses down & moved us first to the Kidbrooke Estate in SE London & we later moved to the Thamesmead Estate also in SE London. If you’ve not heard of either may I suggest you look them up.
Lived there until I was 26, got in minor trouble with cops once when 16. That’s it, no drugs, no booze, no knives, no gangs no convictions....nothing...I as also a latch door kid fending for myself with both parents at work & I’ve managed through life to spend a total of six weeks out of work. People now have a predilection to crime because it’s easier than the alternative & it’s this thought that has to be removed.
S
Its a very different world now...especially places like SE london... it's like comparing the Krays/Richardsons to the Albanian mafia and Somalian drug gangs
No doubt it will is, Islington was a shit hole back then I stand by m last statement though, stop pandering, start locking them up...for good. For that we need prisons.....
Boris said in his post election speech he will be looking at the 50% tariffs this year. I’ll be badgering the Cons on social media don’t worry.
S"
S I'm not disagreeing with you...but prison is only one part of the solution... |
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"Times & technology have changed though. Name a murder conviction which might have meant capital punishment made in the last fifteen years that has been overturned....
S"
It often takes longer than that. The man with a hammer in Kent springs to mind as a doubtful one. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Problem with using prisoners for labour litter picking, graffiti cleaning etc. Is twofold, firstly you have to let them out to do it, and secondly you are taking someone's income who used to get paid to do it.
For those advocating the death penalty for murder, would you include euthanasia assistance in that? E.g. family member in pain no hope so another gives them an OD of morphine, that is premeditated murder,
or how about someone who kills to protect themselves or another?
Or kills because he suspects that the victim is a nasty piece of work who is planning to kill person or persons unknown who happen to be fellow countrymen?
Is this a dagger I see before me? No! It is a hellfire missile  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Convicts have families too, often innocent people who've done nothing to anyone. I hope that no one here knows or ever has to find out what it's like to have someone you love imprisoned. I once heard that it was comparable in terms of stress to a loved one dying. The victim is often not the only one whose life is devastated by the kind of crime that people want to see the death penalty for. You either care about innocent people or not. You can't care about one group and say fuck you to the rest. That's what a civilised society means. If you want to see people brutalised or killed by law then you'll need to find another society to live in. It's not what we do. |
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It's threads like this that make me wonder if I'm wired wrong.
I think we're too tough on criminals while doing nothing about the causes of crime.
As a society we seem to be criminalsing things where I can't see the wrong- which frustrates me immensely- and...sorry...stopping rant...
No to more prisons and no to death penalty. |
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I do feel that violent offenders, rapists etc should have to do their entire sentence. Their prisons should be high security, with bare cells that dont have privacy. No private tv, no private radios, phone signals blocked, no internet access. Lock up 23hrs a day 1 hour exercise.
No distractions, make them ponder their crimes and the consequences not just to their victims but themselves as well.
I dont think the american prison model is perfect, but it punishes far more severely than our system. There are plenty of people in prison running their criminal empires outside, ready for when the get out. They are laughing at the likes of the Lord Longford. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Do two wrongs ever make a right?
No matter what anothers actions may be I have no right to take their life.
If I do am I any better than them?"
No they don't, they just make two wrongs. I watched a horrible horrible documentary this week about a guy of twenty who was murdered by two guys he thought were his friends. He was a w**d dealer so I guess some people might not see him as an innocent victim. However to be taken into a wood on a lie and killed with baseball bats and knives doesn't seem an adequate reprisal for slinging a bit of bud. The killers got life with no chance of parole until 2047. That was the only tiny crumb of comfort in it, that an appropriate sentence was passed. It was the most horrific, upsetting thing I've heard about in a long time. But I still couldn't countenance two more men in their twenties dying. It would still seem completely wrong. |
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No to execution, ever. Totally wrong.
Rehabilitation should be the primary objective, alongside the punishment. We should not hehumanise people, as this helps to incubate isolated cultures with axxeprable geievances against society.
If we largely focus on aspects after the crimes, we are missing the point. We must largely focus on the causes and drivers of crime. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Some crimes should not be taken softly. Like crimes against children. There is a group (DarkLight) they are superheroes who seek out and get these creepy creatures Locked up but UK laws are so soft they are out before you know it.
Cut their pee pee off, lock them up for good and make them do hard slave labour. Other criminals need to learn and maybe it would become a deterrent. |
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By *ENGUYMan
over a year ago
Hull |
There are times when our Penal system appears to be SOFT on criminals.
Shouldn't prison be a case of being sentenced and paying off your crime within an environment which is harsh, not a comfy existence?
We need to look at putting criminals to work, particularly outside. Effectively, chain gangs, repairing potholes; clearing rubbish, graffiti, and rebuilding local damage to property etc.
Ok, some people may have health or old age issues preventing them working outside, so find them indoors work to carry out.
Have everyone work 8-10 hours a day, 6 days a week, feed them, ensure their health and general welfare are maintained but in addition, the privileges of, say, a radio, tv, etc in their cells, have to be earned, not given automatically.
We're too soft on prisoners these days. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Priviliges like you describe ARE earned through good behaviour and are removed as a consequence for bad behaviour. Dunno how many prisons you've been in but it's a harsh existence. Do you genuinely believe a TV set, a mobile phone or a radio makes up for the loss of your freedom? Of any kind of private life? Do you want to brutalise and torture people and then release them back into the world to do God knows what? In some jails prisoners do work, in others they are locked in a ten foot cell for all but 45 minutes of every day. The staff are barely keeping on top of the amount of self harming it's causing. It's not fun, it's not a holiday camp. It's fucking horrible. And on top of that you have to live with what it's done to the people who love you. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The whole system needs changing in my view. Many crimes are committed by people that got mixed up with the wrong crowd or weren't brought up particularly well so how can you expect them to change when they are all thrown together in a community full of reprobates? From what I can tell prison is just a sheltered community for these people, not a punishment like it's meant to be.
How can we expect these people to improve? The majority are childish, immature or just down right thugs. How can they learn a better path when they are mixing daily with other low lifes?!
I think prisons should be more solitary rather than the communities they are to allow them to reflect and to deny them the social interaction they want, especially if that social interaction is with other criminals!
Sorry but I’m sick of hearing stuff like this!! I and a good few of my lifelong mates I’m still in touch with were born in Brixton (62 for me) they knocked our Victorian council houses down & moved us first to the Kidbrooke Estate in SE London & we later moved to the Thamesmead Estate also in SE London. If you’ve not heard of either may I suggest you look them up.
Lived there until I was 26, got in minor trouble with cops once when 16. That’s it, no drugs, no booze, no knives, no gangs no convictions....nothing...I as also a latch door kid fending for myself with both parents at work & I’ve managed through life to spend a total of six weeks out of work. People now have a predilection to crime because it’s easier than the alternative & it’s this thought that has to be removed.
S"
You've taken what I said and twisted it. I never at any point said that everyone that grows up in a poor environment will become a criminal. It does, however, make you more susceptible to fall in with the wrong crowd. It can sickens you all you want but that is a fact! Many studies have proven that your surroundings and the people you associate with have a direct affect on who you are. Studies aside take a look at the demographic of the majority of those incarcerated, the majority coming from the lower classes.
Clearly there are many factors to be taken in to account but immaturity, lack of education or learning disabilities to name a few make some people more susceptible to peer pressure.
Let me put it another way. If you want to do well in life and be the best person you can be do you surround yourself with people you look up to? |
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Death penalty
Ok here is why in some cases the death penalty should be used.
Child killers, where there is undisputed evidence that the person on trial is guilty!
Terrorism
Again when a person is 100% guilty beyond doubt
Serial killers
Yorkshire Ripper should have been given death penalty
I cannot see any reason why this would not be the correct thing to do.
However!!!
I cannot see how it’s fair on anyone to be the person to a) sentence another human being to death
b) carry out the deed of execution
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A life is a life and the punishment shouldn't be different if that life is a child or an adult.
Serial killers are created through processes outwith their control and as such I've always felt uneasy about punishing them at all, let alone through the normal criminal justice system. |
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