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Fab Vegans (not a trolling thread)
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"I am but I quite dislike preach militant vegans. I'm vegan but that's my choice " Yeah, me too! For me veganism is a personal thing and while I'm happy to talk to people about it if they're interested, I don't try to preach to people or shame them. How long have you been vegan? | |||
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"I'm veggie. Have occasionally been completely plant based. I do find that so many people have an issue what I choose to put in my own mouth? I feel so much better with only live animals in my life." Exactly. You'd think not eating meat was some kind of personal attack on them... | |||
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"I'm veggie. Have occasionally been completely plant based. I do find that so many people have an issue what I choose to put in my own mouth? I feel so much better with only live animals in my life. Exactly. You'd think not eating meat was some kind of personal attack on them..." I DO think thats part of the issue though. Different is threatening. Im veggie. I couldnt give a monkey's what other people eat But often I find, that my dinner is the subject of much discussion | |||
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"I'm veggie. Have occasionally been completely plant based. I do find that so many people have an issue what I choose to put in my own mouth? I feel so much better with only live animals in my life. Exactly. You'd think not eating meat was some kind of personal attack on them... I DO think thats part of the issue though. Different is threatening. Im veggie. I couldnt give a monkey's what other people eat But often I find, that my dinner is the subject of much discussion" I think that the current aggression towards vegans & vegetarians is a response to how a few years ago many vegetarians were chastising people for eating meat. Personally I'm happy for people to eat what they want as long as nobody tells me that I can't eat what I want too. Cal | |||
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"There are two vegans at my work. They don't preach at all or get judgemental. I like asking them for different recipes or vegan foods they'd recommend. I am curious why vegans can't eat honey?" It's a product produced by bees so assume that's the reason? I can do veggie but never considered vegan. Mrs x | |||
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" I am curious why vegans can't eat honey?" Bees are animals too. | |||
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"Vegetarian- although I seem to like a different sort of meat *cringe*" Haha, I'll send you an awesome meme about, erm, sausages  | |||
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"There are two vegans at my work. They don't preach at all or get judgemental. I like asking them for different recipes or vegan foods they'd recommend. I am curious why vegans can't eat honey?" Is because honey is produced by bees so it's an animal product. | |||
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"There are two vegans at my work. They don't preach at all or get judgemental. I like asking them for different recipes or vegan foods they'd recommend. I am curious why vegans can't eat honey?" Veganism encompasses non-exploitation of animals and honey is made by bees for bees and it contains nutrients they need - they also don’t produce as much as is assumed that they do this they require the amount they produce - humans taking it takes away the nutrients they require and thus exploits the bee even if the action doesn’t in and of itself cause direct harm to the bee. | |||
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"There are two vegans at my work. They don't preach at all or get judgemental. I like asking them for different recipes or vegan foods they'd recommend. I am curious why vegans can't eat honey? Veganism encompasses non-exploitation of animals and honey is made by bees for bees and it contains nutrients they need - they also don’t produce as much as is assumed that they do this they require the amount they produce - humans taking it takes away the nutrients they require and thus exploits the bee even if the action doesn’t in and of itself cause direct harm to the bee. "  | |||
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"There are two vegans at my work. They don't preach at all or get judgemental. I like asking them for different recipes or vegan foods they'd recommend. I am curious why vegans can't eat honey? Veganism encompasses non-exploitation of animals and honey is made by bees for bees and it contains nutrients they need - they also don’t produce as much as is assumed that they do this they require the amount they produce - humans taking it takes away the nutrients they require and thus exploits the bee even if the action doesn’t in and of itself cause direct harm to the bee. " I just googled it. It's the exploitation of bees that vegans disagree with. | |||
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"I am but I quite dislike preach militant vegans. I'm vegan but that's my choice " Same here, they seem to think they speak for us all. I've been veggie all my life and Vegan for the last 5 years. | |||
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"There are two vegans at my work. They don't preach at all or get judgemental. I like asking them for different recipes or vegan foods they'd recommend. I am curious why vegans can't eat honey? Veganism encompasses non-exploitation of animals and honey is made by bees for bees and it contains nutrients they need - they also don’t produce as much as is assumed that they do this they require the amount they produce - humans taking it takes away the nutrients they require and thus exploits the bee even if the action doesn’t in and of itself cause direct harm to the bee. I just googled it. It's the exploitation of bees that vegans disagree with." As I said.  | |||
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"There are two vegans at my work. They don't preach at all or get judgemental. I like asking them for different recipes or vegan foods they'd recommend. I am curious why vegans can't eat honey? Veganism encompasses non-exploitation of animals and honey is made by bees for bees and it contains nutrients they need - they also don’t produce as much as is assumed that they do this they require the amount they produce - humans taking it takes away the nutrients they require and thus exploits the bee even if the action doesn’t in and of itself cause direct harm to the bee. I just googled it. It's the exploitation of bees that vegans disagree with." no bee's where armed while this was talked about hehe | |||
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"When bees are farmed for their honey, rather than allowing them to eat their own honey, farmers feed them diluted sugar water which doesn’t have any of the health benefits the bees need. " | |||
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"Going vegan isn't something that I'm interested in. I know several who just get on with it and don't preach. I've been out for food with them and eaten meat at that same table without issue. I have however experienced the other side of the militant vegan. One in an office I use from time to time, shouting at me not to eat meat in the office and also reported me to management for doing so "Well you're very unlucky. I've never met a vegan who would do that. | |||
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"Going vegan isn't something that I'm interested in. I know several who just get on with it and don't preach. I've been out for food with them and eaten meat at that same table without issue. I have however experienced the other side of the militant vegan. One in an office I use from time to time, shouting at me not to eat meat in the office and also reported me to management for doing so
Well you're very unlucky. I've never met a vegan who would do that. "Unfortunately people like that exist and they are the ones that give vegans a bad name and paint this image of them being militant. | |||
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"Genuine question and not a troll I believe humans "evolved" (for want of a better expression) to be omnivorous I respect people's choices for being veggie or vegan However, if I was invited to a dinner party at a veggie or vegan's house would they provide a meat alternative dish? As I prefer meat in my diet As I have sometimes been requested to provide a veggie option when I've invited friends round for dinner " It's down to the individual host. I would say there's a difference between you being asked to prepare a veggie dish (which you presumably have no moral objection to) and a vegan being asked to prepare a meat dish which they would have an ethical issue with. Could you not do without meat for a single evening and avoid this whole issue arising in the first place? (I ask that in the same spirit in which you asked the original question - not meaning to sound rude). | |||
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"Genuine question and not a troll I believe humans "evolved" (for want of a better expression) to be omnivorous I respect people's choices for being veggie or vegan However, if I was invited to a dinner party at a veggie or vegan's house would they provide a meat alternative dish? As I prefer meat in my diet As I have sometimes been requested to provide a veggie option when I've invited friends round for dinner It's down to the individual host. I would say there's a difference between you being asked to prepare a veggie dish (which you presumably have no moral objection to) and a vegan being asked to prepare a meat dish which they would have an ethical issue with. Could you not do without meat for a single evening and avoid this whole issue arising in the first place? (I ask that in the same spirit in which you asked the original question - not meaning to sound rude)." I understand where you come from But my balanced diet includes meat and I believe in buying locally sourced food which limits environmental impact from global transport It is a theoretical question which no one will ever have an answer to that would satisfy all | |||
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"I'm veggie. Have occasionally been completely plant based. I do find that so many people have an issue what I choose to put in my own mouth? I feel so much better with only live animals in my life. Exactly. You'd think not eating meat was some kind of personal attack on them..." Yup. I often get funny comments over it and I only gave up meat because I don't like it. | |||
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"Genuine question and not a troll I believe humans "evolved" (for want of a better expression) to be omnivorous I respect people's choices for being veggie or vegan However, if I was invited to a dinner party at a veggie or vegan's house would they provide a meat alternative dish? As I prefer meat in my diet As I have sometimes been requested to provide a veggie option when I've invited friends round for dinner " It does sound rude though. It’s like saying I know you’re making berry cheesecake for dessert but I like chocolate so will you make me a dessert with chocolate because I like that. | |||
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"Out of curiosity - how many vegans are there on Fab? There's been a lot of negativity aimed at vegans on the Forums recently so this is a place for positive discussions and support among Fab's plant-based people. No trolling please. " After watching Game Changers I’m genuinely interested in the possible benefits of moving to a plant based diet. I think I’d struggle to remove diary from my diet tho. | |||
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"Genuine question and not a troll I believe humans "evolved" (for want of a better expression) to be omnivorous I respect people's choices for being veggie or vegan However, if I was invited to a dinner party at a veggie or vegan's house would they provide a meat alternative dish? As I prefer meat in my diet As I have sometimes been requested to provide a veggie option when I've invited friends round for dinner It does sound rude though. It’s like saying I know you’re making berry cheesecake for dessert but I like chocolate so will you make me a dessert with chocolate because I like that." That argument works both ways though | |||
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"Genuine question and not a troll I believe humans "evolved" (for want of a better expression) to be omnivorous I respect people's choices for being veggie or vegan However, if I was invited to a dinner party at a veggie or vegan's house would they provide a meat alternative dish? As I prefer meat in my diet As I have sometimes been requested to provide a veggie option when I've invited friends round for dinner " No I wouldn't but you wouldn't be obliged to accept my invite. | |||
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"Genuine question and not a troll I believe humans "evolved" (for want of a better expression) to be omnivorous I respect people's choices for being veggie or vegan However, if I was invited to a dinner party at a veggie or vegan's house would they provide a meat alternative dish? As I prefer meat in my diet As I have sometimes been requested to provide a veggie option when I've invited friends round for dinner It does sound rude though. It’s like saying I know you’re making berry cheesecake for dessert but I like chocolate so will you make me a dessert with chocolate because I like that." Actually, it isn't like that. Your example is about people's 'likes' and 'dislikes'. Veganism is an ethical choice, not a 'like'. A closer analogy would be if you attended a friend's house and they were offering up human meat, and you were to ask them to provide you a beef dish instead because you don't agree with eating human meat. | |||
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"Genuine question and not a troll I believe humans "evolved" (for want of a better expression) to be omnivorous I respect people's choices for being veggie or vegan However, if I was invited to a dinner party at a veggie or vegan's house would they provide a meat alternative dish? As I prefer meat in my diet As I have sometimes been requested to provide a veggie option when I've invited friends round for dinner It does sound rude though. It’s like saying I know you’re making berry cheesecake for dessert but I like chocolate so will you make me a dessert with chocolate because I like that. Actually, it isn't like that. Your example is about people's 'likes' and 'dislikes'. Veganism is an ethical choice, not a 'like'. A closer analogy would be if you attended a friend's house and they were offering up human meat, and you were to ask them to provide you a beef dish instead because you don't agree with eating human meat. " | |||
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"Genuine question and not a troll I believe humans "evolved" (for want of a better expression) to be omnivorous I respect people's choices for being veggie or vegan However, if I was invited to a dinner party at a veggie or vegan's house would they provide a meat alternative dish? As I prefer meat in my diet As I have sometimes been requested to provide a veggie option when I've invited friends round for dinner It does sound rude though. It’s like saying I know you’re making berry cheesecake for dessert but I like chocolate so will you make me a dessert with chocolate because I like that. That argument works both ways though" Not at all. A vegetarian/vegan is telling you food they do not eat as opposed to I want this. Would you be happy for someone to come to your house for a meal and not eat because they are allergic, or morally/ethically do not eat something. If their religion prevented them from eating something. It’s very different to saying I want this simply because I like it. What is your valid reason for not eating a meal that has no animal produce in it? | |||
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"Genuine question and not a troll I believe humans "evolved" (for want of a better expression) to be omnivorous I respect people's choices for being veggie or vegan However, if I was invited to a dinner party at a veggie or vegan's house would they provide a meat alternative dish? As I prefer meat in my diet As I have sometimes been requested to provide a veggie option when I've invited friends round for dinner It does sound rude though. It’s like saying I know you’re making berry cheesecake for dessert but I like chocolate so will you make me a dessert with chocolate because I like that. That argument works both ways though Not at all. A vegetarian/vegan is telling you food they do not eat as opposed to I want this. Would you be happy for someone to come to your house for a meal and not eat because they are allergic, or morally/ethically do not eat something. If their religion prevented them from eating something. It’s very different to saying I want this simply because I like it. What is your valid reason for not eating a meal that has no animal produce in it?" It was a hypothetical question regarding mutual respect of people's lifestyle choices | |||
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"Genuine question and not a troll I believe humans "evolved" (for want of a better expression) to be omnivorous I respect people's choices for being veggie or vegan However, if I was invited to a dinner party at a veggie or vegan's house would they provide a meat alternative dish? As I prefer meat in my diet As I have sometimes been requested to provide a veggie option when I've invited friends round for dinner It does sound rude though. It’s like saying I know you’re making berry cheesecake for dessert but I like chocolate so will you make me a dessert with chocolate because I like that. Actually, it isn't like that. Your example is about people's 'likes' and 'dislikes'. Veganism is an ethical choice, not a 'like'. A closer analogy would be if you attended a friend's house and they were offering up human meat, and you were to ask them to provide you a beef dish instead because you don't agree with eating human meat. " | |||
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"Genuine question and not a troll I believe humans "evolved" (for want of a better expression) to be omnivorous I respect people's choices for being veggie or vegan However, if I was invited to a dinner party at a veggie or vegan's house would they provide a meat alternative dish? As I prefer meat in my diet As I have sometimes been requested to provide a veggie option when I've invited friends round for dinner It does sound rude though. It’s like saying I know you’re making berry cheesecake for dessert but I like chocolate so will you make me a dessert with chocolate because I like that. That argument works both ways though Not at all. A vegetarian/vegan is telling you food they do not eat as opposed to I want this. Would you be happy for someone to come to your house for a meal and not eat because they are allergic, or morally/ethically do not eat something. If their religion prevented them from eating something. It’s very different to saying I want this simply because I like it. What is your valid reason for not eating a meal that has no animal produce in it?" Spot on. And the human meat point above. | |||
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"Is it possible to be 100% vegan? " I think it is possible to do as much as you can with good intent x There are many things beyond an individuals control. Who knows what the future holds | |||
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"Is it possible to be 100% vegan? " Unless you're living off the grid and growing your own/making your own everything, probably not. But the very definition of veganism is "A way of living which seeks to exclude, as far as is possible and practicable, all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose." The key words being "possible" and "practicable" just because we can't do something 100% perfectly isn't a reason to do nothing at all =) | |||
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"Is it possible to be 100% vegan? " No, completely impossible. But if people choose a vegan diet that is their choice. It is only the preachy ones most people have an issue with | |||
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"We're both trying to move to a more vegetarian diet this year, after watching the game changers documentary. Finding that we don't really miss meat, had some lovely meals that are veg or vegan, and neither of us have died yet!!" | |||
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Seriously though I'm not, but I support vegans and their choice. It is the only aspect of my life that I have not (yet) changed in support of animal welfare.
Products I buy are not tested on animals. | |||
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"Is it possible to be 100% vegan? " No lifestyle is completely cruelty free. Even certain aspects of veganism arent, how some farmers in other counties are treated etc but you can do your best. A small sacrifice is better than non at all | |||
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"One thing ive never understood though, is if a vegan has a pet chicken, why can't they eat it's eggs? You're not forcing the chicken to lay, and it'll lay its eggs anyway. "Because hens eat their own eggs to replenish nutrients. | |||
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"Is it possible to be 100% vegan? No lifestyle is completely cruelty free. Even certain aspects of veganism arent, how some farmers in other counties are treated etc but you can do your best. A small sacrifice is better than non at all " That's without considering what the vegetable / crop field was fertilised with. | |||
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"One thing ive never understood though, is if a vegan has a pet chicken, why can't they eat it's eggs? You're not forcing the chicken to lay, and it'll lay its eggs anyway.
Because hens eat their own eggs to replenish nutrients."Very rarely. They do occasionally go broody. | |||
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"One thing ive never understood though, is if a vegan has a pet chicken, why can't they eat it's eggs? You're not forcing the chicken to lay, and it'll lay its eggs anyway. "Because it's an animal product.... | |||
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"One thing ive never understood though, is if a vegan has a pet chicken, why can't they eat it's eggs? You're not forcing the chicken to lay, and it'll lay its eggs anyway.
Because hens eat their own eggs to replenish nutrients.
Very rarely. They do occasionally go broody. "The reason I wouldn't personally, whether the hens eat them or don't, they're not mine to take. It's that simple. | |||
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"One thing ive never understood though, is if a vegan has a pet chicken, why can't they eat it's eggs? You're not forcing the chicken to lay, and it'll lay its eggs anyway.
Because hens eat their own eggs to replenish nutrients.
Very rarely. They do occasionally go broody.
The reason I wouldn't personally, whether the hens eat them or don't, they're not mine to take. It's that simple."So what would you do with them? | |||
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"One thing ive never understood though, is if a vegan has a pet chicken, why can't they eat it's eggs? You're not forcing the chicken to lay, and it'll lay its eggs anyway.
Because hens eat their own eggs to replenish nutrients.
Very rarely. They do occasionally go broody.
The reason I wouldn't personally, whether the hens eat them or don't, they're not mine to take. It's that simple.
So what would you do with them?"Leave them alone/ give them to other hens. (I'd only ever keep hens if they were rescued and needed taking care of) | |||
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"There are two vegans at my work. They don't preach at all or get judgemental. I like asking them for different recipes or vegan foods they'd recommend. I am curious why vegans can't eat honey? Is because honey is produced by bees so it's an animal product. " also unethical as Worker honey bees live for around 5 months Bees work around 8 hours per day One bee will make around 1/12 teaspoon of honey in their lifetime That’s 14400 bee-hours per teaspoon. So if a bee was to get minimum wage the average cost per jar would equate to around £182,000 or something | |||
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"One thing ive never understood though, is if a vegan has a pet chicken, why can't they eat it's eggs? You're not forcing the chicken to lay, and it'll lay its eggs anyway.
Because hens eat their own eggs to replenish nutrients.
Very rarely. They do occasionally go broody.
The reason I wouldn't personally, whether the hens eat them or don't, they're not mine to take. It's that simple.
So what would you do with them?
Leave them alone/ give them to other hens. (I'd only ever keep hens if they were rescued and needed taking care of)""Give them to other hens"? | |||
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"One thing ive never understood though, is if a vegan has a pet chicken, why can't they eat it's eggs? You're not forcing the chicken to lay, and it'll lay its eggs anyway.
Because hens eat their own eggs to replenish nutrients.
Very rarely. They do occasionally go broody.
The reason I wouldn't personally, whether the hens eat them or don't, they're not mine to take. It's that simple.
So what would you do with them?
Leave them alone/ give them to other hens. (I'd only ever keep hens if they were rescued and needed taking care of)
"Give them to other hens"?"Yeah, so if I'd rescued a bunch of hens and they didn't all lay- I'd leave any eggs alone and see if the other hens ate them. | |||
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"One thing ive never understood though, is if a vegan has a pet chicken, why can't they eat it's eggs? You're not forcing the chicken to lay, and it'll lay its eggs anyway.
Because hens eat their own eggs to replenish nutrients.
Very rarely. They do occasionally go broody.
The reason I wouldn't personally, whether the hens eat them or don't, they're not mine to take. It's that simple.
So what would you do with them?
Leave them alone/ give them to other hens. (I'd only ever keep hens if they were rescued and needed taking care of)
"Give them to other hens"?
Yeah, so if I'd rescued a bunch of hens and they didn't all lay- I'd leave any eggs alone and see if the other hens ate them."You'd get rats pretty quickly,they would love them (eggs) | |||
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"One thing ive never understood though, is if a vegan has a pet chicken, why can't they eat it's eggs? You're not forcing the chicken to lay, and it'll lay its eggs anyway.
Because hens eat their own eggs to replenish nutrients.
Very rarely. They do occasionally go broody.
The reason I wouldn't personally, whether the hens eat them or don't, they're not mine to take. It's that simple.
So what would you do with them?
Leave them alone/ give them to other hens. (I'd only ever keep hens if they were rescued and needed taking care of)
"Give them to other hens"?
Yeah, so if I'd rescued a bunch of hens and they didn't all lay- I'd leave any eggs alone and see if the other hens ate them."It's not programmed into hens to eat their unborn young. It's a symptom of stress. | |||
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"One thing ive never understood though, is if a vegan has a pet chicken, why can't they eat it's eggs? You're not forcing the chicken to lay, and it'll lay its eggs anyway.
Because hens eat their own eggs to replenish nutrients.
Very rarely. They do occasionally go broody.
The reason I wouldn't personally, whether the hens eat them or don't, they're not mine to take. It's that simple.
So what would you do with them?
Leave them alone/ give them to other hens. (I'd only ever keep hens if they were rescued and needed taking care of)
"Give them to other hens"?
Yeah, so if I'd rescued a bunch of hens and they didn't all lay- I'd leave any eggs alone and see if the other hens ate them.
It's not programmed into hens to eat their unborn young. It's a symptom of stress. "That's incidental, whether they eat them or don't, they still aren't mine to take. Plus, to me it's weird to eat the secretions of other species. I'm not interested in carrying this debate on further. | |||
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"One thing ive never understood though, is if a vegan has a pet chicken, why can't they eat it's eggs? You're not forcing the chicken to lay, and it'll lay its eggs anyway.
Because hens eat their own eggs to replenish nutrients.
Very rarely. They do occasionally go broody.
The reason I wouldn't personally, whether the hens eat them or don't, they're not mine to take. It's that simple.
So what would you do with them?
Leave them alone/ give them to other hens. (I'd only ever keep hens if they were rescued and needed taking care of)
"Give them to other hens"?
Yeah, so if I'd rescued a bunch of hens and they didn't all lay- I'd leave any eggs alone and see if the other hens ate them.
It's not programmed into hens to eat their unborn young. It's a symptom of stress.
That's incidental, whether they eat them or don't, they still aren't mine to take. Plus, to me it's weird to eat the secretions of other species. I'm not interested in carrying this debate on further."Amen to that loladaisy. Couldn't have said it better | |||
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"One thing ive never understood though, is if a vegan has a pet chicken, why can't they eat it's eggs? You're not forcing the chicken to lay, and it'll lay its eggs anyway.
Because hens eat their own eggs to replenish nutrients.
Very rarely. They do occasionally go broody.
The reason I wouldn't personally, whether the hens eat them or don't, they're not mine to take. It's that simple.
So what would you do with them?
Leave them alone/ give them to other hens. (I'd only ever keep hens if they were rescued and needed taking care of)
"Give them to other hens"?
Yeah, so if I'd rescued a bunch of hens and they didn't all lay- I'd leave any eggs alone and see if the other hens ate them.
It's not programmed into hens to eat their unborn young. It's a symptom of stress.
That's incidental, whether they eat them or don't, they still aren't mine to take. Plus, to me it's weird to eat the secretions of other species. I'm not interested in carrying this debate on further.
Amen to that loladaisy. Couldn't have said it better "same could be said for cows milk | |||
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"One thing ive never understood though, is if a vegan has a pet chicken, why can't they eat it's eggs? You're not forcing the chicken to lay, and it'll lay its eggs anyway.
Because hens eat their own eggs to replenish nutrients.
Very rarely. They do occasionally go broody.
The reason I wouldn't personally, whether the hens eat them or don't, they're not mine to take. It's that simple.
So what would you do with them?
Leave them alone/ give them to other hens. (I'd only ever keep hens if they were rescued and needed taking care of)
"Give them to other hens"?
Yeah, so if I'd rescued a bunch of hens and they didn't all lay- I'd leave any eggs alone and see if the other hens ate them.
It's not programmed into hens to eat their unborn young. It's a symptom of stress.
That's incidental, whether they eat them or don't, they still aren't mine to take. Plus, to me it's weird to eat the secretions of other species. I'm not interested in carrying this debate on further.
Amen to that loladaisy. Couldn't have said it better same could be said for cows milk "Yepp, breastfeeding from another species is pretty grim. | |||
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""But if we didn't kill cows for beef, what would happen to them?" "Well, they'd live the same as they did before we invented farming, presumably..." (conversation I've had several times)." They just wouldnt be bred in the first place surely. | |||
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""But if we didn't kill cows for beef, what would happen to them?" "Well, they'd live the same as they did before we invented farming, presumably..." (conversation I've had several times). They just wouldnt be bred in the first place surely." Who bred cows before we farmed them? | |||
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""But if we didn't kill cows for beef, what would happen to them?" "Well, they'd live the same as they did before we invented farming, presumably..." (conversation I've had several times)." Thats why I'm taking part in Baconary, keeping pigs from becoming extinct. I'm good like that  | |||
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""But if we didn't kill cows for beef, what would happen to them?" "Well, they'd live the same as they did before we invented farming, presumably..." (conversation I've had several times). They just wouldnt be bred in the first place surely. Who bred cows before we farmed them? " Nature | |||
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""But if we didn't kill cows for beef, what would happen to them?" "Well, they'd live the same as they did before we invented farming, presumably..." (conversation I've had several times). They just wouldnt be bred in the first place surely. Who bred cows before we farmed them? Nature "Exactly. So why would they stop breeding if we stopped farming them if they were around before farming existed? | |||
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"Surely they were around before us . We didnt invent cows . (There wouldnt be as many granted) but they would live wild and free. Same for all other farm animals " the cows that existed before farming will have looked and acted a bit different to those we have now. Didn't invent them, but certainly manufactured them to what they are now. | |||
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""But if we didn't kill cows for beef, what would happen to them?" "Well, they'd live the same as they did before we invented farming, presumably..." (conversation I've had several times). They just wouldnt be bred in the first place surely. Who bred cows before we farmed them? Nature
Exactly. So why would they stop breeding if we stopped farming them if they were around before farming existed? "Well not in the massive amounts of farm animals then. You wouldnt have millions of friesans being bred, it would all still be oxen types and not many cause the wolves and bears would keep things in balance. | |||
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"One thing ive never understood though, is if a vegan has a pet chicken, why can't they eat it's eggs? You're not forcing the chicken to lay, and it'll lay its eggs anyway.
Because hens eat their own eggs to replenish nutrients.
Very rarely. They do occasionally go broody.
The reason I wouldn't personally, whether the hens eat them or don't, they're not mine to take. It's that simple.
So what would you do with them?
Leave them alone/ give them to other hens. (I'd only ever keep hens if they were rescued and needed taking care of)
"Give them to other hens"?
Yeah, so if I'd rescued a bunch of hens and they didn't all lay- I'd leave any eggs alone and see if the other hens ate them.
It's not programmed into hens to eat their unborn young. It's a symptom of stress.
That's incidental, whether they eat them or don't, they still aren't mine to take. Plus, to me it's weird to eat the secretions of other species. I'm not interested in carrying this debate on further."Just a side note to this: any animal with bones needs calcium. Eggs are full of it--so birds need more than mammals. They don't eat their EGGS, they eat the shells, for the calcium they crave. In any case, why put human "morals" on other animals? We have enough of our own crazy issues for outselves. | |||
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""But if we didn't kill cows for beef, what would happen to them?" "Well, they'd live the same as they did before we invented farming, presumably..." (conversation I've had several times). They just wouldnt be bred in the first place surely. Who bred cows before we farmed them? Nature
Exactly. So why would they stop breeding if we stopped farming them if they were around before farming existed? "They won't stop breeding but they will be culled/purged to reduce their numbers greatly. If they are not being used for profit they are of no use to dairy farms or for slaughter. Very few farms and sanctuaries would be able to support their numbers. | |||
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"I never make any new year resolutions - sorry, that's a really boring answer, but I don't " I take it you're not going vegan in 2020 then? :P (or possibly have posted on the wrong thread, lol) | |||
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""But if we didn't kill cows for beef, what would happen to them?" "Well, they'd live the same as they did before we invented farming, presumably..." (conversation I've had several times). They just wouldnt be bred in the first place surely. Who bred cows before we farmed them? Nature
Exactly. So why would they stop breeding if we stopped farming them if they were around before farming existed?
Well not in the massive amounts of farm animals then. You wouldnt have millions of friesans being bred, it would all still be oxen types and not many cause the wolves and bears would keep things in balance. "So we should keep killing the cows because if we don't there'll be too many cows? Even if that were true you could stop deliberately breeding them and bring the numbers down. Whatever, we still don't have the right to take the lives of other creatures to eat them in my opinion so we need to find a way to wind the industry down, or so I believe. You don't refuse to do the right thing just because it will be difficult. | |||
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Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
""But if we didn't kill cows for beef, what would happen to them?" "Well, they'd live the same as they did before we invented farming, presumably..." (conversation I've had several times). They just wouldnt be bred in the first place surely. Who bred cows before we farmed them? Nature
Exactly. So why would they stop breeding if we stopped farming them if they were around before farming existed?
Well not in the massive amounts of farm animals then. You wouldnt have millions of friesans being bred, it would all still be oxen types and not many cause the wolves and bears would keep things in balance.
So we should keep killing the cows because if we don't there'll be too many cows? Even if that were true you could stop deliberately breeding them and bring the numbers down. Whatever, we still don't have the right to take the lives of other creatures to eat them in my opinion so we need to find a way to wind the industry down, or so I believe. You don't refuse to do the right thing just because it will be difficult. " | |||
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""But if we didn't kill cows for beef, what would happen to them?" "Well, they'd live the same as they did before we invented farming, presumably..." (conversation I've had several times). They just wouldnt be bred in the first place surely. Who bred cows before we farmed them? Nature
Exactly. So why would they stop breeding if we stopped farming them if they were around before farming existed?
Well not in the massive amounts of farm animals then. You wouldnt have millions of friesans being bred, it would all still be oxen types and not many cause the wolves and bears would keep things in balance.
So we should keep killing the cows because if we don't there'll be too many cows? Even if that were true you could stop deliberately breeding them and bring the numbers down. Whatever, we still don't have the right to take the lives of other creatures to eat them in my opinion so we need to find a way to wind the industry down, or so I believe. You don't refuse to do the right thing just because it will be difficult. "Speaking as a vegetarian for about 30yrs yes exactly, stop breeding them if we dont want to eat them. | |||
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""But if we didn't kill cows for beef, what would happen to them?" "Well, they'd live the same as they did before we invented farming, presumably..." (conversation I've had several times). They just wouldnt be bred in the first place surely. Who bred cows before we farmed them? Nature
Exactly. So why would they stop breeding if we stopped farming them if they were around before farming existed?
Well not in the massive amounts of farm animals then. You wouldnt have millions of friesans being bred, it would all still be oxen types and not many cause the wolves and bears would keep things in balance. "not many wolves and bears by me these days | |||
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""But if we didn't kill cows for beef, what would happen to them?" "Well, they'd live the same as they did before we invented farming, presumably..." (conversation I've had several times). They just wouldnt be bred in the first place surely. Who bred cows before we farmed them? Nature
Exactly. So why would they stop breeding if we stopped farming them if they were around before farming existed?
Well not in the massive amounts of farm animals then. You wouldnt have millions of friesans being bred, it would all still be oxen types and not many cause the wolves and bears would keep things in balance. not many wolves and bears by me these days "Give it chance | |||
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""But if we didn't kill cows for beef, what would happen to them?" "Well, they'd live the same as they did before we invented farming, presumably..." (conversation I've had several times). They just wouldnt be bred in the first place surely. Who bred cows before we farmed them? Nature
Exactly. So why would they stop breeding if we stopped farming them if they were around before farming existed?
Well not in the massive amounts of farm animals then. You wouldnt have millions of friesans being bred, it would all still be oxen types and not many cause the wolves and bears would keep things in balance.
So we should keep killing the cows because if we don't there'll be too many cows? Even if that were true you could stop deliberately breeding them and bring the numbers down. Whatever, we still don't have the right to take the lives of other creatures to eat them in my opinion so we need to find a way to wind the industry down, or so I believe. You don't refuse to do the right thing just because it will be difficult. "People have the right the choose what ever diet they like. The opinion of most is eating meat is acceptable and part of their balanced diet. As stated previously by many, it is only the preachy vegans people take issue with. | |||
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""But if we didn't kill cows for beef, what would happen to them?" "Well, they'd live the same as they did before we invented farming, presumably..." (conversation I've had several times). They just wouldnt be bred in the first place surely. Who bred cows before we farmed them? Nature
Exactly. So why would they stop breeding if we stopped farming them if they were around before farming existed?
Well not in the massive amounts of farm animals then. You wouldnt have millions of friesans being bred, it would all still be oxen types and not many cause the wolves and bears would keep things in balance. not many wolves and bears by me these days
Give it chance "middle of yorkshire only ones I've seen here were polar ones at Doncaster wildlife park | |||
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""But if we didn't kill cows for beef, what would happen to them?" "Well, they'd live the same as they did before we invented farming, presumably..." (conversation I've had several times). They just wouldnt be bred in the first place surely. Who bred cows before we farmed them? Nature
Exactly. So why would they stop breeding if we stopped farming them if they were around before farming existed?
Well not in the massive amounts of farm animals then. You wouldnt have millions of friesans being bred, it would all still be oxen types and not many cause the wolves and bears would keep things in balance.
So we should keep killing the cows because if we don't there'll be too many cows? Even if that were true you could stop deliberately breeding them and bring the numbers down. Whatever, we still don't have the right to take the lives of other creatures to eat them in my opinion so we need to find a way to wind the industry down, or so I believe. You don't refuse to do the right thing just because it will be difficult.
People have the right the choose what ever diet they like. The opinion of most is eating meat is acceptable and part of their balanced diet. As stated previously by many, it is only the preachy vegans people take issue with."They have a choice yes, but it's not personal, it has a victim, and some vegans choose to speak up on behalf of the animals that can't speak for themselves. | |||
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""But if we didn't kill cows for beef, what would happen to them?" "Well, they'd live the same as they did before we invented farming, presumably..." (conversation I've had several times). They just wouldnt be bred in the first place surely. Who bred cows before we farmed them? Nature
Exactly. So why would they stop breeding if we stopped farming them if they were around before farming existed?
Well not in the massive amounts of farm animals then. You wouldnt have millions of friesans being bred, it would all still be oxen types and not many cause the wolves and bears would keep things in balance. not many wolves and bears by me these days
Give it chance middle of yorkshire only ones I've seen here were polar ones at Doncaster wildlife park "Do you know why polar bears don't eat penguins? | |||
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""But if we didn't kill cows for beef, what would happen to them?" "Well, they'd live the same as they did before we invented farming, presumably..." (conversation I've had several times). They just wouldnt be bred in the first place surely. Who bred cows before we farmed them? Nature
Exactly. So why would they stop breeding if we stopped farming them if they were around before farming existed?
Well not in the massive amounts of farm animals then. You wouldnt have millions of friesans being bred, it would all still be oxen types and not many cause the wolves and bears would keep things in balance.
So we should keep killing the cows because if we don't there'll be too many cows? Even if that were true you could stop deliberately breeding them and bring the numbers down. Whatever, we still don't have the right to take the lives of other creatures to eat them in my opinion so we need to find a way to wind the industry down, or so I believe. You don't refuse to do the right thing just because it will be difficult.
People have the right the choose what ever diet they like. The opinion of most is eating meat is acceptable and part of their balanced diet. As stated previously by many, it is only the preachy vegans people take issue with.
They have a choice yes, but it's not personal, it has a victim, and some vegans choose to speak up on behalf of the animals that can't speak for themselves."What about plants that can't speak for themselves? Is it ok to murder them? | |||
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"One thing ive never understood though, is if a vegan has a pet chicken, why can't they eat it's eggs? You're not forcing the chicken to lay, and it'll lay its eggs anyway. "I was vegan, but now I eat the eggs from my hens, although most get fed back to them. If I wasn't able to keep my own hens, then I'd stop eating eggs again altogether. There are definite moral issues surrounding eggs though. The big problem with hybrid layer hens is that for every hen there's a cockerel, and so they get sexed at hatch and the males go into a macerator or get gassed (they don't bulk up fast enough to be raised for meat). So that's not great, although the gassed ones go for reptile/BOP/ferret food so at least they're not 'wasted'. The red jungle fowl (which is the ancestor of domestic chickens) only lays 12-20 eggs a year, whereas modern hybrids are bred to lay in excess of 320/year which puts a huge strain on their bodies and leaves them susceptible to all sorts of things like prolapse, egg yolk peritonitis, etc. The use of artificial lighting in chicken houses means that they don't stop laying over winter and have a break, they just continue throughout the year. Their production drops off when they moult at around 72 weeks so at that point they're classed as being spent and go to slaughter. And the majority of eggs still come from caged or barn hens, and the conditions are pretty grim. Personally, I mainly keep rare breeds, and have always managed to find homes for any cockerels I've ended up with. They don't lay anywhere near as often as hybrids so aren't as likely to end up with health problems related to laying, for example my legbars stopped laying at the beginning of October and won't lay again until the spring, so they get a nice break over the winter to rest their bodies. They get a big garden to roam around in, and have a chicken house that's designed for 3x the number I keep, so they're not all crammed in at night and have space to move around before they're let out in the morning. So anyway, went on a little bit there, sorry, but basically I made the decision that ethically I was happy to eat the eggs from my hens. True vegans don't believe that any animals should be used for our gain, which eating eggs even from your own chickens would be. End of waffle  | |||
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""But if we didn't kill cows for beef, what would happen to them?" "Well, they'd live the same as they did before we invented farming, presumably..." (conversation I've had several times). They just wouldnt be bred in the first place surely. Who bred cows before we farmed them? Nature
Exactly. So why would they stop breeding if we stopped farming them if they were around before farming existed?
Well not in the massive amounts of farm animals then. You wouldnt have millions of friesans being bred, it would all still be oxen types and not many cause the wolves and bears would keep things in balance. not many wolves and bears by me these days
Give it chance middle of yorkshire only ones I've seen here were polar ones at Doncaster wildlife park
Do you know why polar bears don't eat penguins?"Can’t get the wrapper off | |||
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""But if we didn't kill cows for beef, what would happen to them?" "Well, they'd live the same as they did before we invented farming, presumably..." (conversation I've had several times). They just wouldnt be bred in the first place surely. Who bred cows before we farmed them? Nature
Exactly. So why would they stop breeding if we stopped farming them if they were around before farming existed?
Well not in the massive amounts of farm animals then. You wouldnt have millions of friesans being bred, it would all still be oxen types and not many cause the wolves and bears would keep things in balance.
So we should keep killing the cows because if we don't there'll be too many cows? Even if that were true you could stop deliberately breeding them and bring the numbers down. Whatever, we still don't have the right to take the lives of other creatures to eat them in my opinion so we need to find a way to wind the industry down, or so I believe. You don't refuse to do the right thing just because it will be difficult.
People have the right the choose what ever diet they like. The opinion of most is eating meat is acceptable and part of their balanced diet. As stated previously by many, it is only the preachy vegans people take issue with.
They have a choice yes, but it's not personal, it has a victim, and some vegans choose to speak up on behalf of the animals that can't speak for themselves.
What about plants that can't speak for themselves? Is it ok to murder them?"Plants aren't sentient beings..... | |||
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""But if we didn't kill cows for beef, what would happen to them?" "Well, they'd live the same as they did before we invented farming, presumably..." (conversation I've had several times). They just wouldnt be bred in the first place surely. Who bred cows before we farmed them? Nature
Exactly. So why would they stop breeding if we stopped farming them if they were around before farming existed?
Well not in the massive amounts of farm animals then. You wouldnt have millions of friesans being bred, it would all still be oxen types and not many cause the wolves and bears would keep things in balance.
So we should keep killing the cows because if we don't there'll be too many cows? Even if that were true you could stop deliberately breeding them and bring the numbers down. Whatever, we still don't have the right to take the lives of other creatures to eat them in my opinion so we need to find a way to wind the industry down, or so I believe. You don't refuse to do the right thing just because it will be difficult.
People have the right the choose what ever diet they like. The opinion of most is eating meat is acceptable and part of their balanced diet. As stated previously by many, it is only the preachy vegans people take issue with."I was asked a specific question and I answered it from a vegan perspective. This thread is clearly marked as being for vegans. It's the opposite of being preachy - having our own place to discuss issues where we're not pushing those ideas on non-vegans. If you come onto a vegan thread you can't complain people are being preachy by talking about veganism. Also we would argue the animals have the right not to be killed by humans so there's a clash of 'rights' going on here, it's not as simple in our minds as it is in yours. | |||
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""But if we didn't kill cows for beef, what would happen to them?" "Well, they'd live the same as they did before we invented farming, presumably..." (conversation I've had several times). They just wouldnt be bred in the first place surely. Who bred cows before we farmed them? Nature
Exactly. So why would they stop breeding if we stopped farming them if they were around before farming existed?
Well not in the massive amounts of farm animals then. You wouldnt have millions of friesans being bred, it would all still be oxen types and not many cause the wolves and bears would keep things in balance. not many wolves and bears by me these days
Give it chance middle of yorkshire only ones I've seen here were polar ones at Doncaster wildlife park
Do you know why polar bears don't eat penguins?"cant get the wrappers off | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
""But if we didn't kill cows for beef, what would happen to them?" "Well, they'd live the same as they did before we invented farming, presumably..." (conversation I've had several times). They just wouldnt be bred in the first place surely. Who bred cows before we farmed them? Nature
Exactly. So why would they stop breeding if we stopped farming them if they were around before farming existed?
Well not in the massive amounts of farm animals then. You wouldnt have millions of friesans being bred, it would all still be oxen types and not many cause the wolves and bears would keep things in balance.
So we should keep killing the cows because if we don't there'll be too many cows? Even if that were true you could stop deliberately breeding them and bring the numbers down. Whatever, we still don't have the right to take the lives of other creatures to eat them in my opinion so we need to find a way to wind the industry down, or so I believe. You don't refuse to do the right thing just because it will be difficult. "That's not what I said,so don't twist it to suit your argument. Just that if the world suddenly went vegan their would be a mass cull because currently yes there would be to many cows. The upkeep to keep their population numbers as they are would not happen. They are what keep farms going and maintained (fencing around fields etc). Herds of cows just wandering around would be dangerous for them and people. We as a living creature ourselves have every right to take the life of another creature to eat. We have as much right as any other carnivorous or omnivorous creature. The difference is the system and way it happens, industrial on a conveyer belt bloodbath slaughter. Unfortunately in the case of the human population, as the disease that we are, meat is on the menu. We have other options but such a change needs to happen gradually and not suddenly. | |||
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""But if we didn't kill cows for beef, what would happen to them?" "Well, they'd live the same as they did before we invented farming, presumably..." (conversation I've had several times). They just wouldnt be bred in the first place surely. Who bred cows before we farmed them? Nature
Exactly. So why would they stop breeding if we stopped farming them if they were around before farming existed?
Well not in the massive amounts of farm animals then. You wouldnt have millions of friesans being bred, it would all still be oxen types and not many cause the wolves and bears would keep things in balance. not many wolves and bears by me these days
Give it chance middle of yorkshire only ones I've seen here were polar ones at Doncaster wildlife park
Do you know why polar bears don't eat penguins?
Can’t get the wrapper off" | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
""But if we didn't kill cows for beef, what would happen to them?" "Well, they'd live the same as they did before we invented farming, presumably..." (conversation I've had several times). They just wouldnt be bred in the first place surely. Who bred cows before we farmed them? Nature
Exactly. So why would they stop breeding if we stopped farming them if they were around before farming existed?
Well not in the massive amounts of farm animals then. You wouldnt have millions of friesans being bred, it would all still be oxen types and not many cause the wolves and bears would keep things in balance.
So we should keep killing the cows because if we don't there'll be too many cows? Even if that were true you could stop deliberately breeding them and bring the numbers down. Whatever, we still don't have the right to take the lives of other creatures to eat them in my opinion so we need to find a way to wind the industry down, or so I believe. You don't refuse to do the right thing just because it will be difficult.
That's not what I said,so don't twist it to suit your argument. Just that if the world suddenly went vegan their would be a mass cull because currently yes there would be to many cows. The upkeep to keep their population numbers as they are would not happen. They are what keep farms going and maintained (fencing around fields etc). Herds of cows just wandering around would be dangerous for them and people.
We as a living creature ourselves have every right to take the life of another creature to eat. We have as much right as any other carnivorous or omnivorous creature. The difference is the system and way it happens, industrial on a conveyer belt bloodbath slaughter. Unfortunately in the case of the human population, as the disease that we are, meat is on the menu. We have other options but such a change needs to happen gradually and not suddenly."I guess it's easy to see it like that when you aren't the one waiting in line to be slaughtered. If it were you, you'd want change to happen now. | |||
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""But if we didn't kill cows for beef, what would happen to them?" "Well, they'd live the same as they did before we invented farming, presumably..." (conversation I've had several times). They just wouldnt be bred in the first place surely. Who bred cows before we farmed them? Nature
Exactly. So why would they stop breeding if we stopped farming them if they were around before farming existed?
Well not in the massive amounts of farm animals then. You wouldnt have millions of friesans being bred, it would all still be oxen types and not many cause the wolves and bears would keep things in balance. not many wolves and bears by me these days
Give it chance middle of yorkshire only ones I've seen here were polar ones at Doncaster wildlife park
Do you know why polar bears don't eat penguins?"Polar bears are found in the arctic and penguins are southern hemisphere. It's a looooong swim. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
""But if we didn't kill cows for beef, what would happen to them?" "Well, they'd live the same as they did before we invented farming, presumably..." (conversation I've had several times). They just wouldnt be bred in the first place surely. Who bred cows before we farmed them? Nature
Exactly. So why would they stop breeding if we stopped farming them if they were around before farming existed?
Well not in the massive amounts of farm animals then. You wouldnt have millions of friesans being bred, it would all still be oxen types and not many cause the wolves and bears would keep things in balance.
So we should keep killing the cows because if we don't there'll be too many cows? Even if that were true you could stop deliberately breeding them and bring the numbers down. Whatever, we still don't have the right to take the lives of other creatures to eat them in my opinion so we need to find a way to wind the industry down, or so I believe. You don't refuse to do the right thing just because it will be difficult.
People have the right the choose what ever diet they like. The opinion of most is eating meat is acceptable and part of their balanced diet. As stated previously by many, it is only the preachy vegans people take issue with.
They have a choice yes, but it's not personal, it has a victim, and some vegans choose to speak up on behalf of the animals that can't speak for themselves.
What about plants that can't speak for themselves? Is it ok to murder them?"Did you miss the 'not a trolling thread' note or just decide to ignore it? Haven't you anything better to do with your time? Every vegan has been asked these questions over and over - they aren't challenging or original. | |||
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""But if we didn't kill cows for beef, what would happen to them?" "Well, they'd live the same as they did before we invented farming, presumably..." (conversation I've had several times). They just wouldnt be bred in the first place surely. Who bred cows before we farmed them? Nature
Exactly. So why would they stop breeding if we stopped farming them if they were around before farming existed?
Well not in the massive amounts of farm animals then. You wouldnt have millions of friesans being bred, it would all still be oxen types and not many cause the wolves and bears would keep things in balance. not many wolves and bears by me these days
Give it chance middle of yorkshire only ones I've seen here were polar ones at Doncaster wildlife park
Do you know why polar bears don't eat penguins?
Polar bears are found in the arctic and penguins are southern hemisphere. It's a looooong swim. "both good answers | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
""But if we didn't kill cows for beef, what would happen to them?" "Well, they'd live the same as they did before we invented farming, presumably..." (conversation I've had several times). They just wouldnt be bred in the first place surely. Who bred cows before we farmed them? Nature
Exactly. So why would they stop breeding if we stopped farming them if they were around before farming existed?
Well not in the massive amounts of farm animals then. You wouldnt have millions of friesans being bred, it would all still be oxen types and not many cause the wolves and bears would keep things in balance.
So we should keep killing the cows because if we don't there'll be too many cows? Even if that were true you could stop deliberately breeding them and bring the numbers down. Whatever, we still don't have the right to take the lives of other creatures to eat them in my opinion so we need to find a way to wind the industry down, or so I believe. You don't refuse to do the right thing just because it will be difficult.
That's not what I said,so don't twist it to suit your argument. Just that if the world suddenly went vegan their would be a mass cull because currently yes there would be to many cows. The upkeep to keep their population numbers as they are would not happen. They are what keep farms going and maintained (fencing around fields etc). Herds of cows just wandering around would be dangerous for them and people.
We as a living creature ourselves have every right to take the life of another creature to eat. We have as much right as any other carnivorous or omnivorous creature. The difference is the system and way it happens, industrial on a conveyer belt bloodbath slaughter. Unfortunately in the case of the human population, as the disease that we are, meat is on the menu. We have other options but such a change needs to happen gradually and not suddenly."I'm not twisting anything. Show me where I said everything should happen overnight or that shifting to a vegan world would be easy and quick? If any word-twisting to suit an argument was done, it was there. | |||
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""But if we didn't kill cows for beef, what would happen to them?" "Well, they'd live the same as they did before we invented farming, presumably..." (conversation I've had several times). They just wouldnt be bred in the first place surely. Who bred cows before we farmed them? Nature
Exactly. So why would they stop breeding if we stopped farming them if they were around before farming existed?
Well not in the massive amounts of farm animals then. You wouldnt have millions of friesans being bred, it would all still be oxen types and not many cause the wolves and bears would keep things in balance.
So we should keep killing the cows because if we don't there'll be too many cows? Even if that were true you could stop deliberately breeding them and bring the numbers down. Whatever, we still don't have the right to take the lives of other creatures to eat them in my opinion so we need to find a way to wind the industry down, or so I believe. You don't refuse to do the right thing just because it will be difficult.
People have the right the choose what ever diet they like. The opinion of most is eating meat is acceptable and part of their balanced diet. As stated previously by many, it is only the preachy vegans people take issue with.
They have a choice yes, but it's not personal, it has a victim, and some vegans choose to speak up on behalf of the animals that can't speak for themselves.
What about plants that can't speak for themselves? Is it ok to murder them?
Did you miss the 'not a trolling thread' note or just decide to ignore it? Haven't you anything better to do with your time? Every vegan has been asked these questions over and over - they aren't challenging or original. "No one is trolling, some people are getting preachy and telling others what they should eat. I eat meat, its my choice. You don't, it is your choice. I don't care about your dietry choice, you shouldn't care about mine. So don't preach to me. | |||
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"Is there an ethical choice to be made from where/how meat substitutes are grown and produced. Ie forests being cut down for soya and advocados I think the way humams eat is a massive problem whether its meat or plant based really. We just cant seem to get it right and something will suffer. " | |||
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"Is there an ethical choice to be made from where/how meat substitutes are grown and produced. Ie forests being cut down for soya and advocados I think the way humams eat is a massive problem whether its meat or plant based really. We just cant seem to get it right and something will suffer. " Sadly this is a problem yes | |||
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""But if we didn't kill cows for beef, what would happen to them?" "Well, they'd live the same as they did before we invented farming, presumably..." (conversation I've had several times). They just wouldnt be bred in the first place surely. Who bred cows before we farmed them? Nature
Exactly. So why would they stop breeding if we stopped farming them if they were around before farming existed?
Well not in the massive amounts of farm animals then. You wouldnt have millions of friesans being bred, it would all still be oxen types and not many cause the wolves and bears would keep things in balance.
So we should keep killing the cows because if we don't there'll be too many cows? Even if that were true you could stop deliberately breeding them and bring the numbers down. Whatever, we still don't have the right to take the lives of other creatures to eat them in my opinion so we need to find a way to wind the industry down, or so I believe. You don't refuse to do the right thing just because it will be difficult.
People have the right the choose what ever diet they like. The opinion of most is eating meat is acceptable and part of their balanced diet. As stated previously by many, it is only the preachy vegans people take issue with.
They have a choice yes, but it's not personal, it has a victim, and some vegans choose to speak up on behalf of the animals that can't speak for themselves.
What about plants that can't speak for themselves? Is it ok to murder them?
Did you miss the 'not a trolling thread' note or just decide to ignore it? Haven't you anything better to do with your time? Every vegan has been asked these questions over and over - they aren't challenging or original.
No one is trolling, some people are getting preachy and telling others what they should eat. I eat meat, its my choice. You don't, it is your choice. I don't care about your dietry choice, you shouldn't care about mine. So don't preach to me."Your dietary choice harms other beings that vegans are trying to protect. This is a vegan thread, if you don't like the tone, there are plenty more in the forums for you to partake in. | |||
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""But if we didn't kill cows for beef, what would happen to them?" "Well, they'd live the same as they did before we invented farming, presumably..." (conversation I've had several times). They just wouldnt be bred in the first place surely. Who bred cows before we farmed them? Nature
Exactly. So why would they stop breeding if we stopped farming them if they were around before farming existed?
Well not in the massive amounts of farm animals then. You wouldnt have millions of friesans being bred, it would all still be oxen types and not many cause the wolves and bears would keep things in balance.
So we should keep killing the cows because if we don't there'll be too many cows? Even if that were true you could stop deliberately breeding them and bring the numbers down. Whatever, we still don't have the right to take the lives of other creatures to eat them in my opinion so we need to find a way to wind the industry down, or so I believe. You don't refuse to do the right thing just because it will be difficult.
That's not what I said,so don't twist it to suit your argument. Just that if the world suddenly went vegan their would be a mass cull because currently yes there would be to many cows. The upkeep to keep their population numbers as they are would not happen. They are what keep farms going and maintained (fencing around fields etc). Herds of cows just wandering around would be dangerous for them and people.
We as a living creature ourselves have every right to take the life of another creature to eat. We have as much right as any other carnivorous or omnivorous creature. The difference is the system and way it happens, industrial on a conveyer belt bloodbath slaughter. Unfortunately in the case of the human population, as the disease that we are, meat is on the menu. We have other options but such a change needs to happen gradually and not suddenly.
I guess it's easy to see it like that when you aren't the one waiting in line to be slaughtered. If it were you, you'd want change to happen now."Yes but as a human being I also have the capacity to see the bigger picture and what is beyond now. If the meat industry shut down just like that over night it would be complete chaos. It would impact so much more, ripples impacting economey in other industries. The world would buckle and take an extremely long time to come back from, if ever. Things like this can not and should not be changed over night. It has fsr reaching consequences. | |||
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"Is there an ethical choice to be made from where/how meat substitutes are grown and produced. Ie forests being cut down for soya and advocados I think the way humams eat is a massive problem whether its meat or plant based really. We just cant seem to get it right and something will suffer. " There are issues in all ways we choose to live. The rainforests are being cut down at a tremendous rate, mostly for grazing land for cattle for the beef industry. Avocados, palm oil, etc also cause damage to the natural world if not grown and harvested appropriately. We can't be perfect but we can follow the path of least harm. | |||
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"Is there an ethical choice to be made from where/how meat substitutes are grown and produced. Ie forests being cut down for soya and advocados I think the way humams eat is a massive problem whether its meat or plant based really. We just cant seem to get it right and something will suffer. " Most of the soya being grown in deforested areas is for animal feed though, not humans. Personally I like to reduce my food miles and environmental impact as much as possible. | |||
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""But if we didn't kill cows for beef, what would happen to them?" "Well, they'd live the same as they did before we invented farming, presumably..." (conversation I've had several times). They just wouldnt be bred in the first place surely. Who bred cows before we farmed them? Nature
Exactly. So why would they stop breeding if we stopped farming them if they were around before farming existed?
Well not in the massive amounts of farm animals then. You wouldnt have millions of friesans being bred, it would all still be oxen types and not many cause the wolves and bears would keep things in balance.
So we should keep killing the cows because if we don't there'll be too many cows? Even if that were true you could stop deliberately breeding them and bring the numbers down. Whatever, we still don't have the right to take the lives of other creatures to eat them in my opinion so we need to find a way to wind the industry down, or so I believe. You don't refuse to do the right thing just because it will be difficult.
People have the right the choose what ever diet they like. The opinion of most is eating meat is acceptable and part of their balanced diet. As stated previously by many, it is only the preachy vegans people take issue with.
They have a choice yes, but it's not personal, it has a victim, and some vegans choose to speak up on behalf of the animals that can't speak for themselves.
What about plants that can't speak for themselves? Is it ok to murder them?
Did you miss the 'not a trolling thread' note or just decide to ignore it? Haven't you anything better to do with your time? Every vegan has been asked these questions over and over - they aren't challenging or original.
No one is trolling, some people are getting preachy and telling others what they should eat. I eat meat, its my choice. You don't, it is your choice. I don't care about your dietry choice, you shouldn't care about mine. So don't preach to me.
Your dietary choice harms other beings that vegans are trying to protect. This is a vegan thread, if you don't like the tone, there are plenty more in the forums for you to partake in."Preacy | |||
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"Well not in the massive amounts of farm animals then. You wouldnt have millions of friesans being bred, it would all still be oxen types and not many cause the wolves and bears would keep things in balance. So we should keep killing the cows because if we don't there'll be too many cows? Even if that were true you could stop deliberately breeding them and bring the numbers down. Whatever, we still don't have the right to take the lives of other creatures to eat them in my opinion so we need to find a way to wind the industry down, or so I believe. You don't refuse to do the right thing just because it will be difficult. That's not what I said,so don't twist it to suit your argument. Just that if the world suddenly went vegan their would be a mass cull because currently yes there would be to many cows. The upkeep to keep their population numbers as they are would not happen. They are what keep farms going and maintained (fencing around fields etc). Herds of cows just wandering around would be dangerous for them and people. We as a living creature ourselves have every right to take the life of another creature to eat. We have as much right as any other carnivorous or omnivorous creature. The difference is the system and way it happens, industrial on a conveyer belt bloodbath slaughter. Unfortunately in the case of the human population, as the disease that we are, meat is on the menu. We have other options but such a change needs to happen gradually and not suddenly. I'm not twisting anything. Show me where I said everything should happen overnight or that shifting to a vegan world would be easy and quick? If any word-twisting to suit an argument was done, it was there. " My bad I misread and thought your initial response was to what I had said. I take back the twisting words part. | |||
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"Is there an ethical choice to be made from where/how meat substitutes are grown and produced. Ie forests being cut down for soya and advocados I think the way humams eat is a massive problem whether its meat or plant based really. We just cant seem to get it right and something will suffer. " I’ve been reading the posts in this thread from the outset and think this post is about the first sensible thing I have seen written. | |||
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"Me I don't eat meat " That’s being a vegetarian yes? Vegan is something different ? | |||
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"Is there an ethical choice to be made from where/how meat substitutes are grown and produced. Ie forests being cut down for soya and advocados I think the way humams eat is a massive problem whether its meat or plant based really. We just cant seem to get it right and something will suffer. There are issues in all ways we choose to live. The rainforests are being cut down at a tremendous rate, mostly for grazing land for cattle for the beef industry. Avocados, palm oil, etc also cause damage to the natural world if not grown and harvested appropriately. We can't be perfect but we can follow the path of least harm. " | |||
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"There are two vegans at my work. They don't preach at all or get judgemental. I like asking them for different recipes or vegan foods they'd recommend. I am curious why vegans can't eat honey?" I work as a chef and it's something to do with the way the bees are treated. I spoke to a supplier who we use and one of the tele sales girls is a vegan and she only eats locally produced honey as it helps with the pollination of the flowers | |||
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""But if we didn't kill cows for beef, what would happen to them?" "Well, they'd live the same as they did before we invented farming, presumably..." (conversation I've had several times). They just wouldnt be bred in the first place surely. Who bred cows before we farmed them? Nature
Exactly. So why would they stop breeding if we stopped farming them if they were around before farming existed?
Well not in the massive amounts of farm animals then. You wouldnt have millions of friesans being bred, it would all still be oxen types and not many cause the wolves and bears would keep things in balance.
So we should keep killing the cows because if we don't there'll be too many cows? Even if that were true you could stop deliberately breeding them and bring the numbers down. Whatever, we still don't have the right to take the lives of other creatures to eat them in my opinion so we need to find a way to wind the industry down, or so I believe. You don't refuse to do the right thing just because it will be difficult.
People have the right the choose what ever diet they like. The opinion of most is eating meat is acceptable and part of their balanced diet. As stated previously by many, it is only the preachy vegans people take issue with.
They have a choice yes, but it's not personal, it has a victim, and some vegans choose to speak up on behalf of the animals that can't speak for themselves.
What about plants that can't speak for themselves? Is it ok to murder them?
Did you miss the 'not a trolling thread' note or just decide to ignore it? Haven't you anything better to do with your time? Every vegan has been asked these questions over and over - they aren't challenging or original.
No one is trolling, some people are getting preachy and telling others what they should eat. I eat meat, its my choice. You don't, it is your choice. I don't care about your dietry choice, you shouldn't care about mine. So don't preach to me.
Your dietary choice harms other beings that vegans are trying to protect. This is a vegan thread, if you don't like the tone, there are plenty more in the forums for you to partake in.
Preacy "I'm fine with being called "preachy", "militant", "the reason people hate vegans" or whatever, but I'm standing up for what's right. | |||
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"Is there an ethical choice to be made from where/how meat substitutes are grown and produced. Ie forests being cut down for soya and advocados I think the way humams eat is a massive problem whether its meat or plant based really. We just cant seem to get it right and something will suffer. There are issues in all ways we choose to live. The rainforests are being cut down at a tremendous rate, mostly for grazing land for cattle for the beef industry. Avocados, palm oil, etc also cause damage to the natural world if not grown and harvested appropriately. We can't be perfect but we can follow the path of least harm. " Humans are incapable of following a path of least harm where profit is involved. A little harm is a bad to the people/animals/natural world being harmed as is a lot of harm in my eyes. Hard to know the answer. | |||
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" No one is trolling, some people are getting preachy and telling others what they should eat. I eat meat, its my choice. You don't, it is your choice. I don't care about your dietry choice, you shouldn't care about mine. So don't preach to me." We're not preaching to you. We're expressing opinions which happen to be different to yours. Why do you find that so threatening? And remind me why you're reading and posting on a vegan thread if you're not looking to be offended when you ask us questions and we answer them from a vegan perspective? Have I said you should stop eating meat? No. I explained why vegans don't. We're not finding you and forcing you to listen to us. You're choosing to jump into a thread clearly marked as being for vegans and getting offended when we say we think the choices we've made are the right ones, which seems a bit silly, don't you think? | |||
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"Quorn chicken nuggets and Vivera veggie bacon bits #Justsaying Think is with meat replacements when you season them or cook with sauce they don't taste to different to meat! " KFC's new vegan burger is nice and subways vegan meatballs.. | |||
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" Humans are incapable of following a path of least harm where profit is involved. A little harm is a bad to the people/animals/natural world being harmed as is a lot of harm in my eyes. Hard to know the answer. " We've been trained to think in that way but profit hasn't always been part of human life - capitalism isn't the only economic system we've lived under. But yes, right now we put short term gain over the fate of the whole planet and it's hard to see how that's going to change. | |||
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"Quorn chicken nuggets and Vivera veggie bacon bits #Justsaying Think is with meat replacements when you season them or cook with sauce they don't taste to different to meat! KFC's new vegan burger is nice and subways vegan meatballs.. " ohhh may have to try tomorrow | |||
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"Quorn chicken nuggets and Vivera veggie bacon bits #Justsaying Think is with meat replacements when you season them or cook with sauce they don't taste to different to meat! KFC's new vegan burger is nice and subways vegan meatballs.. ohhh may have to try tomorrow "The KFC burger is decent. Not had the Subway meatballs but a friend has and says they're really nice. | |||
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"Quorn chicken nuggets and Vivera veggie bacon bits #Justsaying Think is with meat replacements when you season them or cook with sauce they don't taste to different to meat! KFC's new vegan burger is nice and subways vegan meatballs.. ohhh may have to try tomorrow
The KFC burger is decent. Not had the Subway meatballs but a friend has and says they're really nice."they are. Even the vegan cheese they use is nicer than any I've bought from a supermarket. | |||
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" No one is trolling, some people are getting preachy and telling others what they should eat. I eat meat, its my choice. You don't, it is your choice. I don't care about your dietry choice, you shouldn't care about mine. So don't preach to me. We're not preaching to you. We're expressing opinions which happen to be different to yours. Why do you find that so threatening? And remind me why you're reading and posting on a vegan thread if you're not looking to be offended when you ask us questions and we answer them from a vegan perspective? Have I said you should stop eating meat? No. I explained why vegans don't. We're not finding you and forcing you to listen to us. You're choosing to jump into a thread clearly marked as being for vegans and getting offended when we say we think the choices we've made are the right ones, which seems a bit silly, don't you think? " Some good editing by you, but r3ad through the thread. Two people are preaching about, in their minds, moral high grounds ans saying people shouldn't eat meat or how bad it is. I'm not offended by your choices, I fail to see why you are offended by mine. If you care to go to the top of the thread I made it clear I respect peoples choices. Now respect mine. I will post where I want, there is a thread celebrating Baconary, you are free to join in. | |||
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"Love the way fast food is trying to score the £V! It's like now even mingers can be vegan! Hooray for consumerism! There is no escape!" All about the money. | |||
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"Do vegans have pets?" A lot of vegans have “pets” although seeing them more I’d say as a companion animal who shares their home. Who they give food and shelter to. There is nothing wrong in fact lots of good, in looking after another creature that cannot look after itself. | |||
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"Do vegans have pets? A lot of vegans have “pets” although seeing them more I’d say as a companion animal who shares their home. Who they give food and shelter to. There is nothing wrong in fact lots of good, in looking after another creature that cannot look after itself." Indeed. Vegan is not automatically somebody who screams animal abuse when it comes to pets etc. Huge difference. | |||
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"Love the way fast food is trying to score the £V! It's like now even mingers can be vegan! Hooray for consumerism! There is no escape!" Mingers got to eat too I guess  | |||
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"Love the way fast food is trying to score the £V! It's like now even mingers can be vegan! Hooray for consumerism! There is no escape! Mingers got to eat too I guess "Im just surprised they'd think deep enough to want to go vegan! Has a Kardashian done it? Or someone on love island? | |||
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" Some good editing by you, but r3ad through the thread. Two people are preaching about, in their minds, moral high grounds ans saying people shouldn't eat meat or how bad it is. I'm not offended by your choices, I fail to see why you are offended by mine. If you care to go to the top of the thread I made it clear I respect peoples choices. Now respect mine. I will post where I want, there is a thread celebrating Baconary, you are free to join in. " What did I edit? Vegans think people shouldn't eat meat. That's not an insult aimed at you, it's what they believe. Vegans care about what omnivores eat because what you eat contributes to animal slaughtering, which they disagree with - you might disagree or think it doesn't matter, but that's a belief system. It's not just about not putting meat or dairy in our bodies, it's also often about animal rights which are infringed upon by people's diets. Again, the above is simply an explanation, not an attack on you. You said you don't understand why we care about your diet, so I'm explaining it. As I've said, I don't tell people what to eat, I just explain why I (and other vegans) don't eat it. I have no objection to non-vegans joining in on this thread - several have and been perfectly nice about it, asked genuine questions and accepted the answers. I could join a thread about bacon, but why would I? I'd instantly be accused of preaching and cause an argument, spoiling other people's enjoyment of the discussion, and why would I want (or have the time and inclination) to do that? | |||
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" Some good editing by you, but r3ad through the thread. Two people are preaching about, in their minds, moral high grounds ans saying people shouldn't eat meat or how bad it is. I'm not offended by your choices, I fail to see why you are offended by mine. If you care to go to the top of the thread I made it clear I respect peoples choices. Now respect mine. I will post where I want, there is a thread celebrating Baconary, you are free to join in. What did I edit? Vegans think people shouldn't eat meat. That's not an insult aimed at you, it's what they believe. Vegans care about what omnivores eat because what you eat contributes to animal slaughtering, which they disagree with - you might disagree or think it doesn't matter, but that's a belief system. It's not just about not putting meat or dairy in our bodies, it's also often about animal rights which are infringed upon by people's diets. Again, the above is simply an explanation, not an attack on you. You said you don't understand why we care about your diet, so I'm explaining it. As I've said, I don't tell people what to eat, I just explain why I (and other vegans) don't eat it. I have no objection to non-vegans joining in on this thread - several have and been perfectly nice about it, asked genuine questions and accepted the answers. I could join a thread about bacon, but why would I? I'd instantly be accused of preaching and cause an argument, spoiling other people's enjoyment of the discussion, and why would I want (or have the time and inclination) to do that? " | |||
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" Some good editing by you, but r3ad through the thread. Two people are preaching about, in their minds, moral high grounds ans saying people shouldn't eat meat or how bad it is. I'm not offended by your choices, I fail to see why you are offended by mine. If you care to go to the top of the thread I made it clear I respect peoples choices. Now respect mine. I will post where I want, there is a thread celebrating Baconary, you are free to join in. What did I edit? Vegans think people shouldn't eat meat. That's not an insult aimed at you, it's what they believe. Vegans care about what omnivores eat because what you eat contributes to animal slaughtering, which they disagree with - you might disagree or think it doesn't matter, but that's a belief system. It's not just about not putting meat or dairy in our bodies, it's also often about animal rights which are infringed upon by people's diets. Again, the above is simply an explanation, not an attack on you. You said you don't understand why we care about your diet, so I'm explaining it. As I've said, I don't tell people what to eat, I just explain why I (and other vegans) don't eat it. I have no objection to non-vegans joining in on this thread - several have and been perfectly nice about it, asked genuine questions and accepted the answers. I could join a thread about bacon, but why would I? I'd instantly be accused of preaching and cause an argument, spoiling other people's enjoyment of the discussion, and why would I want (or have the time and inclination) to do that? " | |||
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"Do vegans have pets?" What’s that got to do with the price of fish?! | |||
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"Do vegans have pets? What’s that got to do with the price of fish?!" The price of broccoli, if you please | |||
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"Hubby has been Vegan for 6 months and dropped 2 stone and has an excuse to buy himself loads of new clothes, I’m generally vegetarian but doing Veganuary. Neither of us are Vegan for ethic reasons particularly, our youngest is Vegan and when she came home from uni in the summer offered to cook so Hubby went with it, feel healthier for it x C" Great to hear that it's going so well! | |||
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"Vegan couple here "Hello! Welcome to our little corner of Fab | |||
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"Would I be correct in thinking there are 2 different types of vegans, ethical and non-ethical? " Well, as I understand it there's 'vegan' and 'plant-based'. The latter tend to be people who don't eat meat or dairy for health reasons rather than because they have an ethical standpoint about animal products. I have no issue with that myself - although they may still wear leather, etc if their only reason for avoiding meat and dairy are the health benefits. Other people may be able to explain it better than me. | |||
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"Would I be correct in thinking there are 2 different types of vegans, ethical and non-ethical? " I would describe as 'plant based' food, but still wears leather etc vs 'vegan lifestyle' eliminates as much impact on animals /environment etc as possible | |||
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"General question - what's the vegan scene like where you live? Do you have lots of options of places to go or is eating out difficult?* (*pun very much intended )"We visited am amazing vegan Indian restaurant recently, food was amazing. Living in Leicester, we have a lot of ethnic restaurants due to the diversity of our population, and I suspect that Indian cuisine lends itself really well to vegetarian and vegan food. | |||
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"General question - what's the vegan scene like where you live? Do you have lots of options of places to go or is eating out difficult?* (*pun very much intended )"It has been hard here with more people turning to plant based diets, the past 6 months, kors and more places have been adapting to the lifestyle so we are very lucky here! I imagine Manchester is better since it’s bigger or am i mistaken? | |||
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"Why thank you! Nice to be welcomed somewhere so acceptably! x" What would have been an unacceptable welcome? :D | |||
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" It has been hard here with more people turning to plant based diets, the past 6 months, kors and more places have been adapting to the lifestyle so we are very lucky here! I imagine Manchester is better since it’s bigger or am i mistaken?" Manchester's pretty good. There are a lot of vegan-specific or friendly places in the city centre and dotted around different parts of the city, and there are quite a few take-away options on Deliveroo. Where I live I can get Chinese, Indian, cafe food, ice cream and cake, pizza, burgers...all within walking distance. | |||
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"General question - what's the vegan scene like where you live? Do you have lots of options of places to go or is eating out difficult?* (*pun very much intended )"It's pretty good. We have a couple of entirely vegan/vegetarian places and I live in quite a Bohemian area so I even have a vegan chinese/chip shop within walking distance. | |||
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"General question - what's the vegan scene like where you live? Do you have lots of options of places to go or is eating out difficult?* (*pun very much intended )
We visited am amazing vegan Indian restaurant recently, food was amazing. Living in Leicester, we have a lot of ethnic restaurants due to the diversity of our population, and I suspect that Indian cuisine lends itself really well to vegetarian and vegan food."I think most Indian restaurants still use regular ghee. I’d definitely check | |||
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"General question - what's the vegan scene like where you live? Do you have lots of options of places to go or is eating out difficult?* (*pun very much intended )
We visited am amazing vegan Indian restaurant recently, food was amazing. Living in Leicester, we have a lot of ethnic restaurants due to the diversity of our population, and I suspect that Indian cuisine lends itself really well to vegetarian and vegan food.
I think most Indian restaurants still use regular ghee. I’d definitely check"Thanks for the heads up, hopefully restaurants that advertise as vegan would use "non-regular" ghee, but to be honest, it's not something that we are going to lose any sleep over, we're happy to be considerably more vegan than we were, we don't feel we have to hit it 100% | |||
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