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By *adyJayneWoman
over a year ago
Burnleyish (She/They) |
"Yes it is unbelievable.
I think the definition of poverty is too broad. "
It's really not.
And sadly it's very believable. I work with a number of charities dealing with poverty and destitution and it's heartbreaking. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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That figure relates to working families in London. Poverty in that reort is defined as income less than 60% of the average.
Not being a nay sayers or expressing an opinion, just adding some detail. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Of those living in a working household in 2019 live in relative poverty according to a leading statistic...
Unbelievable !"
No matter. I'm sure the compassionate Conservatives'll get straight to helping them out |
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"Yes it is unbelievable.
I think the definition of poverty is too broad. "
Its only as broad as the pay gap is.
Over half of those below the poverty line are far below it. I think it works out at 1.5 million single parents with 2 kids on about 120 sterling a week. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Yes it is unbelievable.
I think the definition of poverty is too broad. "
Defined for this statistic as having an income less than 60% of the average. So by that measure its households on £17k or less. |
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"Yes it is unbelievable.
I think the definition of poverty is too broad.
Defined for this statistic as having an income less than 60% of the average. So by that measure its households on £17k or less."
It takes into account children and the mean not average. Its a very slight difference but it means its 10k a year for a Parent with 2 kids to get on the poverty line. 195 a week. Over half are on 120 a week with two kids.
Now if you introduce a second parent, they can make more money and still be under the poverty line, because they need to feed an extra mouth, and all the costs associated with that. A single person might be able to make less and stay out of the poverty zone.
of course this 195 figure goes up and down every year too.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Im sure a lot of people live in poverty because they spend beyond their means. See something, want it, get it on credit!
I'd wager that a lot of those living in poverty dont have a pot to piss in but have an iphone Xs or whatever the latest model is! |
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"Im sure a lot of people live in poverty because they spend beyond their means. See something, want it, get it on credit!
I'd wager that a lot of those living in poverty dont have a pot to piss in but have an iphone Xs or whatever the latest model is!"
Thats not how they calculate it, they dont say "How much money do you have after you buy a ferrari". |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Im sure a lot of people live in poverty because they spend beyond their means. See something, want it, get it on credit!
I'd wager that a lot of those living in poverty dont have a pot to piss in but have an iphone Xs or whatever the latest model is!"
For this study it is based on income not expenditure. |
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By *adyJayneWoman
over a year ago
Burnleyish (She/They) |
"Im sure a lot of people live in poverty because they spend beyond their means. See something, want it, get it on credit!
I'd wager that a lot of those living in poverty dont have a pot to piss in but have an iphone Xs or whatever the latest model is!
Thats not how they calculate it, they dont say "How much money do you have after you buy a ferrari"."
Exactly. And when you're faced with "which days this week shall not eat on, so I've enough money to wash the kids clothes" an iPhone x doesn't come into it.
One of the hardest things is the demonisation of those in poverty. That they should somehow have to not only suffer and struggle but that life should be devoid of any sort of fun or enjoyment. How dare they enjoy themselves when they are poor... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
One of the hardest things is the demonisation of those in poverty. That they should somehow have to not only suffer and struggle but that life should be devoid of any sort of fun or enjoyment. How dare they enjoy themselves when they are poor..."
I think I'm in love, LadyJ |
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"Im sure a lot of people live in poverty because they spend beyond their means. See something, want it, get it on credit!
I'd wager that a lot of those living in poverty dont have a pot to piss in but have an iphone Xs or whatever the latest model is!
Thats not how they calculate it, they dont say "How much money do you have after you buy a ferrari".
Exactly. And when you're faced with "which days this week shall not eat on, so I've enough money to wash the kids clothes" an iPhone x doesn't come into it.
One of the hardest things is the demonisation of those in poverty. That they should somehow have to not only suffer and struggle but that life should be devoid of any sort of fun or enjoyment. How dare they enjoy themselves when they are poor..."
It's people who have never experienced poverty who have no grasp of what it means...
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Im sure a lot of people live in poverty because they spend beyond their means. See something, want it, get it on credit!
I'd wager that a lot of those living in poverty dont have a pot to piss in but have an iphone Xs or whatever the latest model is!
Thats not how they calculate it, they dont say "How much money do you have after you buy a ferrari".
Exactly. And when you're faced with "which days this week shall not eat on, so I've enough money to wash the kids clothes" an iPhone x doesn't come into it.
One of the hardest things is the demonisation of those in poverty. That they should somehow have to not only suffer and struggle but that life should be devoid of any sort of fun or enjoyment. How dare they enjoy themselves when they are poor..."
That's how people justify not caring. Similar to responding to charity appeals by questioning how much the charity's staff are paid. I don't understand why they do it, if you don't want to give, don't give. If you don't want to care about kids being cold and hungry then don't. You don't have to come up with spurious reasons why it's OK to not give and not care... just don't and get on with your life. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
One of the hardest things is the demonisation of those in poverty. That they should somehow have to not only suffer and struggle but that life should be devoid of any sort of fun or enjoyment. How dare they enjoy themselves when they are poor..."
I don't doubt that some people genuinely struggle and I'm not slating all. Unfortunately I grew up on a very rough council estate and experienced first hand those people that complain they are poor but when you walk in to their house they have every gadget going. Those same people often complained they couldn't afford to live, some often on benefits. Where did they get their gadgets? Brighthouse or some other extortionate company preying on those on low income with poor credit.
Granted I clearly haven't read the article and no doubt some boffins have done the maths but as stated by someone else statistics are often twisted.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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And I wasnt demonising those in poverty. If anyone I'm demonising those who expect everything given to them and abuse the system.
You should only take it as an insult if you are screaming poverty and, as i stated, have every new gadget available (on credit) and any other unnecessary stuff.
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"Im sure a lot of people live in poverty because they spend beyond their means. See something, want it, get it on credit!
I'd wager that a lot of those living in poverty dont have a pot to piss in but have an iphone Xs or whatever the latest model is!
Thats not how they calculate it, they dont say "How much money do you have after you buy a ferrari".
Exactly. And when you're faced with "which days this week shall not eat on, so I've enough money to wash the kids clothes" an iPhone x doesn't come into it.
One of the hardest things is the demonisation of those in poverty. That they should somehow have to not only suffer and struggle but that life should be devoid of any sort of fun or enjoyment. How dare they enjoy themselves when they are poor..."
Exactly, well said |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It's people who have never experienced poverty who have no grasp of what it means...
"
I have experienced it and realise how shit it is. I also have experience of not being wise with my money when I had little of it, not to the extent of those I talk about. |
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By *m3232Man
over a year ago
maidenhead |
"It's people who have never experienced poverty who have no grasp of what it means...
I have experienced it and realise how shit it is. I also have experience of not being wise with my money when I had little of it, not to the extent of those I talk about."
I bet you worked your way out of it by either working harder or working smarter. |
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"It's people who have never experienced poverty who have no grasp of what it means...
I have experienced it and realise how shit it is. I also have experience of not being wise with my money when I had little of it, not to the extent of those I talk about.
I bet you worked your way out of it by either working harder or working smarter. "
Easier if you are a healthy young white, childless male. |
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By *adyJayneWoman
over a year ago
Burnleyish (She/They) |
"It's people who have never experienced poverty who have no grasp of what it means...
I have experienced it and realise how shit it is. I also have experience of not being wise with my money when I had little of it, not to the extent of those I talk about.
I bet you worked your way out of it by either working harder or working smarter.
Easier if you are a healthy young white, childless male."
And have had a decent education, can read and write, have been educated (or able to educate yourself) about money management.
Again with the working harder... When you're talking to parents who are both working one full time minimum wage job, and one of them is working part time too and they still don't have enough to cover the basic cost of living.
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I’m a working single mum, I don’t class myself as living in poverty but I don’t have a lot left at the end of month, which means like this week I’ve had a letter from the housing association I rent from saying that they are taking me to court as I couldn’t pay my full rent last month as needed to fix the car & didn’t want to take out a doorstep loan. Sometimes I miss meals to make sure I can put fuel in the car to get to work. My son doesn’t have all the latest things but he respects what he does have & looks after it. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Again.
You're either part of the Solution, part of the Problem, or part of the Scenery.
Which are you?
And which are you ?"
I do everything in my power for my fellow human and the planet that I leave to my children. I give away more than I keep for myself and try to inspire more smiles than frowns.
I travelled 80 miles on election day to vote for a party who promised to serve the poor not the rich against my self interest. Time that could have earned me money whilst people living just minutes away from the poling station didn't vote at all. |
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By *ssex_tom OP Man
over a year ago
Chelmsford |
"Again.
You're either part of the Solution, part of the Problem, or part of the Scenery.
Which are you?
And which are you ?
I do everything in my power for my fellow human and the planet that I leave to my children. I give away more than I keep for myself and try to inspire more smiles than frowns.
I travelled 80 miles on election day to vote for a party who promised to serve the poor not the rich against my self interest. Time that could have earned me money whilst people living just minutes away from the poling station didn't vote at all."
Why do you think they did not vote ? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Again.
You're either part of the Solution, part of the Problem, or part of the Scenery.
Which are you?
And which are you ?"
Which do you think you are, Tom? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Again.
You're either part of the Solution, part of the Problem, or part of the Scenery.
Which are you?
And which are you ?
Which do you think you are, Tom? "
Nothing like a bit of self reflection to kill a thread  |
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By *ucilleWoman
over a year ago
Newcastle Upon Tyne |
"Again.
You're either part of the Solution, part of the Problem, or part of the Scenery.
Which are you?
And which are you ?
Which do you think you are, Tom?
Nothing like a bit of self reflection to kill a thread "
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It's indicative of much that has gone wrong with uk employment, including corporations paying meagre wages that the taxpayer subsidises, to inflate their profits. Such practices are now wide-spread, with wage recovery since 2008 faltering, whilst costs of living haven't. Whilst relative poverty is high, the UK reflects the USA, with huge disparity between richer and poorer, since the 1980s. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Bet they’ve all got the latest smart phone and flat screen tv "
The people living in poverty in the First world are Middle class/upper middle class to people living in the third world.....
Some people need to Visit Africa and India to see real poverty.... |
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By *eeleyWoman
over a year ago
Dudley |
"I've been to Bosnia and had homeless hungry kids no older than around six in filthy rags coming up begging for money and food, that's real poverty, a very different definition to over here."
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By *ssex_tom OP Man
over a year ago
Chelmsford |
Well there is absolute poverty as you describe in some of those countries like India or Bosnia and there is the relative poverty which seems to be based on a calculation relating to earnings. With the latter it seems to me that if we quadrupled everyone's earnings then we would still have a high percentage in relative poverty which seems crazy to me .. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Bet they’ve all got the latest smart phone and flat screen tv
The people living in poverty in the First world are Middle class/upper middle class to people living in the third world.....
Some people need to Visit Africa and India to see real poverty...."
I come from Africa but was still shocked when I went to Buenos Aires and saw people living under tarpulins stretched between abandoned cars. Why did that shock me more? Because they are not a poor country.
We, on the other hand are the 5th richest country in the world yet our people are poor and our public services are run down. There's no excuse for it. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It's people who have never experienced poverty who have no grasp of what it means...
I have experienced it and realise how shit it is. I also have experience of not being wise with my money when I had little of it, not to the extent of those I talk about.
I bet you worked your way out of it by either working harder or working smarter.
Easier if you are a healthy young white, childless male."
If people didn't like my previous comment then I'm sure my next one wont go down well....
Another issue is people that have children before they have a means to support one. That clearly doesn't include people that lost their job. And for those that go on about right to have children.... that's a completely different topic! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It's people who have never experienced poverty who have no grasp of what it means...
I have experienced it and realise how shit it is. I also have experience of not being wise with my money when I had little of it, not to the extent of those I talk about.
I bet you worked your way out of it by either working harder or working smarter.
Easier if you are a healthy young white, childless male.
If people didn't like my previous comment then I'm sure my next one wont go down well....
Another issue is people that have children before they have a means to support one. That clearly doesn't include people that lost their job. And for those that go on about right to have children.... that's a completely different topic!"
As in had a job when they had a child or got pregnant but later lost it. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I have a simple solution to end poverty in the UK....
Everyone that works will be taxed at 80% of gross income.....
The government will give you free health care, housing, clothes , food , electronics, and a car....
The only caveat is that the government will choose everything for you..... we will all live in the same house, drive the same cars , wear the same clothes, and eat the same foods...
So everyone is equal.....
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"I have a simple solution to end poverty in the UK....
Everyone that works will be taxed at 80% of gross income.....
The government will give you free health care, housing, clothes , food , electronics, and a car....
The only caveat is that the government will choose everything for you..... we will all live in the same house, drive the same cars , wear the same clothes, and eat the same foods...
So everyone is equal.....
"
That worked out well in the Soviet Union, Cambodia, Cuba et al... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I have a simple solution to end poverty in the UK....
Everyone that works will be taxed at 80% of gross income.....
The government will give you free health care, housing, clothes , food , electronics, and a car....
The only caveat is that the government will choose everything for you..... we will all live in the same house, drive the same cars , wear the same clothes, and eat the same foods...
So everyone is equal.....
"
Hmmm, I think what you are describing is along the lines of communism....
Like I said previously I think part of the issue is that, in my opinion, minimum wage is enough for a person to live on if you are sensible with your money. Unfortunately many people aren't. I would suggest minimum wage is not enough to support a family but people still insist on having children before they can support them comfortably. |
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The thing with minimum wage is you don't have to stay on it. After leaving college at 19 I was on minimum wage jobs for a couple of years but over time I've progressively increased my wages by using the experience gained in each job to move on to another one that pays more, even if the salary increases haven't been anything to shout about. You just have to push yourself |
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By *ssex_tom OP Man
over a year ago
Chelmsford |
"I have a simple solution to end poverty in the UK....
Everyone that works will be taxed at 80% of gross income.....
The government will give you free health care, housing, clothes , food , electronics, and a car....
The only caveat is that the government will choose everything for you..... we will all live in the same house, drive the same cars , wear the same clothes, and eat the same foods...
So everyone is equal.....
"
What about the vegans ? |
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By *ssex_tom OP Man
over a year ago
Chelmsford |
"So, in a land of billionaires, millionaires live in relative poverty?"
Think that basically sums up the statistic and of course some politicians in the UK drop the relative word and just call it poverty.. mainly Corbyn and his cronies |
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By *ssex_tom OP Man
over a year ago
Chelmsford |
"I have a simple solution to end poverty in the UK....
Everyone that works will be taxed at 80% of gross income.....
The government will give you free health care, housing, clothes , food , electronics, and a car....
The only caveat is that the government will choose everything for you..... we will all live in the same house, drive the same cars , wear the same clothes, and eat the same foods...
So everyone is equal.....
Hmmm, I think what you are describing is along the lines of communism....
Like I said previously I think part of the issue is that, in my opinion, minimum wage is enough for a person to live on if you are sensible with your money. Unfortunately many people aren't. I would suggest minimum wage is not enough to support a family but people still insist on having children before they can support them comfortably."
I don't believe the minimum wage based on a 40 hour week is enough to live independently on.
I don't pay the minimum wage because I think it's immoral.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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CEOs of top UK companies now earn “120 times” more than average workers, compared to “10 or 20 times” more in the 1980s. They estimate that over the same period, “the share of total incomes accruing to the richest 1 per cent of the population increased from 6 per cent to 14 per cent”. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I have a simple solution to end poverty in the UK....
Everyone that works will be taxed at 80% of gross income.....
The government will give you free health care, housing, clothes , food , electronics, and a car....
The only caveat is that the government will choose everything for you..... we will all live in the same house, drive the same cars , wear the same clothes, and eat the same foods...
So everyone is equal.....
Hmmm, I think what you are describing is along the lines of communism....
Like I said previously I think part of the issue is that, in my opinion, minimum wage is enough for a person to live on if you are sensible with your money. Unfortunately many people aren't. I would suggest minimum wage is not enough to support a family but people still insist on having children before they can support them comfortably.
I don't believe the minimum wage based on a 40 hour week is enough to live independently on.
I don't pay the minimum wage because I think it's immoral.
"
I dont disagree with you. But being on the minimum wage doesn't put you in poverty, it does mean you need to be frugal with your money and like I said previously minimum wage is not enough to support a family.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I have a simple solution to end poverty in the UK....
Everyone that works will be taxed at 80% of gross income.....
The government will give you free health care, housing, clothes , food , electronics, and a car....
The only caveat is that the government will choose everything for you..... we will all live in the same house, drive the same cars , wear the same clothes, and eat the same foods...
So everyone is equal.....
Hmmm, I think what you are describing is along the lines of communism....
Like I said previously I think part of the issue is that, in my opinion, minimum wage is enough for a person to live on if you are sensible with your money. Unfortunately many people aren't. I would suggest minimum wage is not enough to support a family but people still insist on having children before they can support them comfortably.
I don't believe the minimum wage based on a 40 hour week is enough to live independently on.
I don't pay the minimum wage because I think it's immoral.
I dont disagree with you. But being on the minimum wage doesn't put you in poverty, it does mean you need to be frugal with your money and like I said previously minimum wage is not enough to support a family.
"
It’s called a choosy beggars society.....
In NYC they wanted to raise the minimum wage to $15 per hour.....
I told everyone that this was a bad idea because businesses would cut employees...
They called me crazy , they protested in the streets, the Unions held huge rally’s with politicians saying if you vote for me I’ll give you $15 per hour......
The bill passed and everyone was happy.....
Then all the people who missed work were fired.... Businesses in NYC cut staff by 40%....
Did they say hmmm rudeboybull you were right?
No , these people have decided to go to court to sue business owners to force them to keep a minimum amount of staff....
Btw I teach economics so I enjoy bantering with the younger generation about poverty and how capitalism is so evil.... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I have a simple solution to end poverty in the UK....
Everyone that works will be taxed at 80% of gross income.....
The government will give you free health care, housing, clothes , food , electronics, and a car....
The only caveat is that the government will choose everything for you..... we will all live in the same house, drive the same cars , wear the same clothes, and eat the same foods...
So everyone is equal.....
Hmmm, I think what you are describing is along the lines of communism....
Like I said previously I think part of the issue is that, in my opinion, minimum wage is enough for a person to live on if you are sensible with your money. Unfortunately many people aren't. I would suggest minimum wage is not enough to support a family but people still insist on having children before they can support them comfortably.
I don't believe the minimum wage based on a 40 hour week is enough to live independently on.
I don't pay the minimum wage because I think it's immoral.
I dont disagree with you. But being on the minimum wage doesn't put you in poverty, it does mean you need to be frugal with your money and like I said previously minimum wage is not enough to support a family.
It’s called a choosy beggars society.....
In NYC they wanted to raise the minimum wage to $15 per hour.....
I told everyone that this was a bad idea because businesses would cut employees...
They called me crazy , they protested in the streets, the Unions held huge rally’s with politicians saying if you vote for me I’ll give you $15 per hour......
The bill passed and everyone was happy.....
Then all the people who missed work were fired.... Businesses in NYC cut staff by 40%....
Did they say hmmm rudeboybull you were right?
No , these people have decided to go to court to sue business owners to force them to keep a minimum amount of staff....
Btw I teach economics so I enjoy bantering with the younger generation about poverty and how capitalism is so evil...."
I think the same when politicians talk about making the living wage law and getting rid of minimum wage. The pecimist in me thinks it's only so they can raise taxes to pay for the debt they get us in (Labour mainly) |
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Socially engineered relative poverty. Divide and conquer, to help ensure it remains acceptable to many of the majority - it certainly is to many of the extremely affluent, who have been getting significantly wealthier at a rate that most haven't seen comparable relative increases. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Socially engineered relative poverty. Divide and conquer, to help ensure it remains acceptable to many of the majority - it certainly is to many of the extremely affluent, who have been getting significantly wealthier at a rate that most haven't seen comparable relative increases. "
Do you know what people in poverty do now ?
They immigrate to other countries for a better life....
Now , if you’re living poverty in the UK....
You can move to Estonia , Romania, Belarus and live like a king.....
Or you can blame the government and hope/pray things get better.... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Of those living in a working household in 2019 live in relative poverty according to a leading statistic...
Unbelievable !"
The figures for London will always be different to the rest of the country though due to high living costs I would have thought? |
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By *ssex_tom OP Man
over a year ago
Chelmsford |
"Of those living in a working household in 2019 live in relative poverty according to a leading statistic...
Unbelievable !
The figures for London will always be different to the rest of the country though due to high living costs I would have thought? "
Yes rents are very high in London which surprises me.. |
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"Of those living in a working household in 2019 live in relative poverty according to a leading statistic...
Unbelievable !"
load of rubbish your not in poverty if you can afford to smoke drink have the latest phone and a big TV |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"That's what you get from ten years under the tory junta "
Well considering the last ten years have been off the back of an economic crash, but yea lets just blame the Conservatives for everything.
Im guessing your one of those that thought that Labour party was going to fix everything and give everyone free stuff. (Deff wouldn't have crashed the economy)
Nowhere is perfect but we do live in one of the best and economically most secure countries on the planet
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Of those living in a working household in 2019 live in relative poverty according to a leading statistic...
Unbelievable ! load of rubbish your not in poverty if you can afford to smoke drink have the latest phone and a big TV "
Don’t forget tattoos |
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"Yes it is unbelievable.
I think the definition of poverty is too broad.
Defined for this statistic as having an income less than 60% of the average. So by that measure its households on £17k or less."
I fall into this category. Didn't realise I was in the majority, though. 58%? Bugger.
That said, I don't feel like I live in poverty. My life's not much to write home about but I have a roof over my head, a full stomach, a car and I can pay my bills.
Of course, I live alone. So I only have one person to worry about. It must be really hard going if you have a young family - and you're part of that 58%. |
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