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By *stella OP Woman
over a year ago
London |
Query; if an employee has been signed off with a Fit Note day for let’s say two weeks, and by the second week they feel fit to return to work so they inform work of that intent. The employer says no, you cannot return until the end of the Fit Note - does the employer have the right to enforce this?
This isn’t an illness which is infectious or requires a quarantine time etc.
Additionally, the employee will be on reduced pay for each day off sick so enforcing the time off is also a financial burden on them.
I’ve been asked about this and am trying to check the employee rights, I don’t think the employer can enforce this and that the employee has the right to return when they feel
able even before the end of the Fit Note time.
I thought it would be interesting to hear from the forum - what do you think? Any references to back your thoughts? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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My experiences managing staff, led me to believe they shouldnt just resume and had to speak with occupational departments.
I guess it may have been to the nature of work and type of reason for absence to ensure safety. |
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I remember working with someone years ago. He was signed off for 2 weeks due to a minor operation. Came back after a week and got sent home due to not being covered by insurance due his doctor signing him off. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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My employer has a policy that if you have been signed off by a doctor you can not return until that runs out or your doctor has signed you fit.
They say it's to to do with insurance. |
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By *stella OP Woman
over a year ago
London |
" My experiences managing staff, led me to believe they shouldnt just resume and had to speak with occupational departments.
I guess it may have been to the nature of work and type of reason for absence to ensure safety. "
Nods. It’s not a situation where there is such a risk, it appears to be an overly punitive manager (who has a fractured relationship with the employee) - I’ve just located a DWP document from 2015 that states employees can return early with no requirement to have to return to their doctor first.
I can completely understand if it was an illness or job role where there was a semblance of risk but even then an updated risk assessment could still mitigate in some circumstances rather than enforcing the time off, I’d presume. |
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By *stella OP Woman
over a year ago
London |
"I remember working with someone years ago. He was signed off for 2 weeks due to a minor operation. Came back after a week and got sent home due to not being covered by insurance due his doctor signing him off. "
It says in the DWP documentation it doesn’t affect the employer insurance. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Query; if an employee has been signed off with a Fit Note day for let’s say two weeks, and by the second week they feel fit to return to work so they inform work of that intent. The employer says no, you cannot return until the end of the Fit Note - does the employer have the right to enforce this?
This isn’t an illness which is infectious or requires a quarantine time etc.
Additionally, the employee will be on reduced pay for each day off sick so enforcing the time off is also a financial burden on them.
I’ve been asked about this and am trying to check the employee rights, I don’t think the employer can enforce this and that the employee has the right to return when they feel
able even before the end of the Fit Note time.
I thought it would be interesting to hear from the forum - what do you think? Any references to back your thoughts?"
No you can ask your doctor for a return to work note |
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By *stella OP Woman
over a year ago
London |
"My employer has a policy that if you have been signed off by a doctor you can not return until that runs out or your doctor has signed you fit.
They say it's to to do with insurance. "
And yet apparently it doesn’t affect the employer insurance - according to the DWP doc I’ve located. But yes, I could understand that if it did.
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Where I work if you are signed off then we cannot return until that has finished. You’ll probably find it’s more down to liability in case something goes wrong with the employee returning before the note has finalised.
Depending on the reasoning we also have an occupational health review, to see if anything in our work or area needs to change. |
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By *stella OP Woman
over a year ago
London |
“Getting the most out of the Fit Note” is the DWP doc I’ve located. Can’t link here but it’s a sixteen pager and states
“Your employee can come back to work at any time, even if this is before their fit note expires. They do not need to go back to their doctor first.”
And
“IMPORTANT- Your employee can go back to work at any time (including before the end of the fit note) without going back to see their doctor - even if their doctor has indicated that they need to assess them again. This will not breach your Employers Liability Compulsory Insurance, providing a suitable risk assessment has taken place if required.” |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Query; if an employee has been signed off with a Fit Note day for let’s say two weeks, and by the second week they feel fit to return to work so they inform work of that intent. The employer says no, you cannot return until the end of the Fit Note - does the employer have the right to enforce this?
This isn’t an illness which is infectious or requires a quarantine time etc.
Additionally, the employee will be on reduced pay for each day off sick so enforcing the time off is also a financial burden on them.
I’ve been asked about this and am trying to check the employee rights, I don’t think the employer can enforce this and that the employee has the right to return when they feel
able even before the end of the Fit Note time.
I thought it would be interesting to hear from the forum - what do you think? Any references to back your thoughts?"
The employee is free to return early if they feel well enough. The insurance claim is likely smoke - much like companies claim they can not divulge information 'because of data protection' which has become a catch all excuse when a company doesn't feel like telling you something regardless of legal basis.
However your company may have an internal policy that requires a further doctor certification that is agreed by the employee as part of his T&C of employment.
Doctors do not normally provide such 'well' certification but may do so if requested.
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The old style med 3 sick notes had to be signed off by your GP if you wanted to go back before the date on the form.
The new style Fit Notes have no such rule. If a GP signs you off for 10 days and you feel ready to go back to work after day 7 you can do so. There is no legal requirement for a ‘signing off’ note - indeed no such thing exists. If you work insists on getting one then they are wrong legally. A GP can supply a signing off note but it would be a private one and there would be a fee to pay. Also the note would be non-commital and simply state ‘the patient tells me they are fit to return to work’.
If work are worried about a patient returning to work then they should get a full occupational health assessment - this is not in the remit of a GP.
I hope that answers your question. I can get you the exact legal text but it will take me a mo to fish it out. |
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By *stella OP Woman
over a year ago
London |
"The old style med 3 sick notes had to be signed off by your GP if you wanted to go back before the date on the form.
The new style Fit Notes have no such rule. If a GP signs you off for 10 days and you feel ready to go back to work after day 7 you can do so. There is no legal requirement for a ‘signing off’ note - indeed no such thing exists. If you work insists on getting one then they are wrong legally. A GP can supply a signing off note but it would be a private one and there would be a fee to pay. Also the note would be non-commital and simply state ‘the patient tells me they are fit to return to work’.
If work are worried about a patient returning to work then they should get a full occupational health assessment - this is not in the remit of a GP.
I hope that answers your question. I can get you the exact legal text but it will take me a mo to fish it out. "
This was my understanding. I do think some employers haven’t updated their practice and understanding, especially in relation to disability leave (ie. sick leave when it’s in relation to someone’s disability as it is in this particular case). If you do have time, I would really appreciate any references although the doc I’ve already found does state it explicitly too. Thanks.  |
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I'd be concerned for the employee, so pursuing whether they could be paid at the working rate, as they have offered to return earlier than they could have done, even whilst a difficult working relationship exists. Perhaps they could do some minimal work from home for an hour or two?
They are obviously not trying to abuse the system and it's in the employer's and staff members interests to sustain goodwill. Christmas time income is a worrying point for many, so a couple of half days pay is a small contribution to maintaining their well-being, especially if the inwork relationship has degraded it. |
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This site states what the rules currently are. A lot of employers simply aren’t uptodate in their understanding.
https://www.nhs.uk/common-health-questions/caring-carers-and-long-term-conditions/can-i-go-back-to-work-before-the-end-date-on-my-fit-note/ |
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"This site states what the rules currently are. A lot of employers simply aren’t uptodate in their understanding.
https://www.nhs.uk/common-health-questions/caring-carers-and-long-term-conditions/can-i-go-back-to-work-before-the-end-date-on-my-fit-note/"
Oh ..... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Cheese broke his ankle, had a four week sick note (he gets full sick pay) he was however bored and climbing the walls after one week.
His employer agreed he could return to work early, however they allowed him to work from home.
It was all good. I do believe it depends upon the hr department, both our employers are very good with things like this. |
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