FabSwingers.com > Forums > The Lounge > Thomas cook is in the verge of a collapse
Thomas cook is in the verge of a collapse
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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Who thought that this super giant are close to a collapse? They need £200mill to survive, how do you think it got to this point, could it be down to brexit? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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How can it be down to brexit, brexit hasn't happened yet!
Fact us margins on holidays are tight, £ is worth 25% less that's £50,000,000 accounted for, and wages are still low compared to inflation first luxury to cut is holidays.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It's down to the ease of creating your own holiday online I think - hotels and cheap flights. Many people no longer see the need for a middle man. Luke"
There could be something to that but I've found that the package holiday providers still manage to get themselves lower hotel prices than the average Joe. |
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Can't for the life of me remember a single instance of ever having darkened the door of a travel agent this side of the Millenium -in a couple of years I suspect travel agents will be a distant memory much like videa rental stores are now. Sign of the times I suppose -not much call for cart horses either these days i hear. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It's down to the ease of creating your own holiday online I think - hotels and cheap flights. Many people no longer see the need for a middle man. Luke
There could be something to that but I've found that the package holiday providers still manage to get themselves lower hotel prices than the average Joe."
Thats true the package holiday companies work out cheaper for the flight and hotel they are just a little less flexible on duration. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Thomas cook have been on the verge of collapse for many years, they've had rescue packages to bail them out in the past.
Stiffer competition in the travel sector is one of the reasons they're failing, not Brexit. They used to hold a massive % of package holiday market before the internet and comparison sites came along. Savvy travellers are another reason, searching to find cheaper ways to travel.
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"It's down to the ease of creating your own holiday online I think - hotels and cheap flights. Many people no longer see the need for a middle man. Luke
There could be something to that but I've found that the package holiday providers still manage to get themselves lower hotel prices than the average Joe."
That may be, but I reckon a lot of people don't even go into a branch to find that out. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It's down to the ease of creating your own holiday online I think - hotels and cheap flights. Many people no longer see the need for a middle man. Luke
There could be something to that but I've found that the package holiday providers still manage to get themselves lower hotel prices than the average Joe.
That may be, but I reckon a lot of people don't even go into a branch to find that out. "
People don't they book online with them. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It's down to the ease of creating your own holiday online I think - hotels and cheap flights. Many people no longer see the need for a middle man. Luke
There could be something to that but I've found that the package holiday providers still manage to get themselves lower hotel prices than the average Joe.
That may be, but I reckon a lot of people don't even go into a branch to find that out.
People don't they book online with them. "
It's normally where they have the slightly better discounts too... for some reason I've never been able to figure out. Why penalise people for going in to a store  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It's down to the ease of creating your own holiday online I think - hotels and cheap flights. Many people no longer see the need for a middle man. Luke"
I agree with this, in most towns now as well there are independent travel agents that take a lot less commission than the giants and can get you some great deals. Its not down to brexit in my opinion, just people having to be more savvy with their money. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It's down to the ease of creating your own holiday online I think - hotels and cheap flights. Many people no longer see the need for a middle man. Luke
There could be something to that but I've found that the package holiday providers still manage to get themselves lower hotel prices than the average Joe.
That may be, but I reckon a lot of people don't even go into a branch to find that out.
People don't they book online with them.
It's normally where they have the slightly better discounts too... for some reason I've never been able to figure out. Why penalise people for going in to a store "
I don't see it as penalising the stores have to be paid for as the staff online customers shouldn't have to subsidise those who use high-street agency's |
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"Who thought that this super giant are close to a collapse? They need £200mill to survive, how do you think it got to this point, could it be down to brexit?"
As much as you would love it to be because of Brexit, it isn't.
Thomas Cook has been in the shit for years.
There are probably a hundred reasons as to why. Too much reliance on the high street and the ill advised merger/takeover of the MyTravel group, to name just a couple, but Brexit aint one of them.
Sorry if I've pissed on your parade.  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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More people are holidaying in the isles and rightly so. Go to the right places and this island is as beautiful as any other. I normally do one year at home and the next abroad, myself and the kids always tend to enjoy the UK trips the best. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"It's down to the ease of creating your own holiday online I think - hotels and cheap flights. Many people no longer see the need for a middle man. Luke
I agree with this, in most towns now as well there are independent travel agents that take a lot less commission than the giants and can get you some great deals. Its not down to brexit in my opinion, just people having to be more savvy with their money. "
I think that too as the ease of booking a holiday online and as well it would be alot cheaper as you cut out the middle man, the high street is getting more and more empty with the revolution of the internet. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I have a friend within the travel industry and this has nothing to do with Brexit and has been on the cards for a while. They have come close before Brexit was voted for 3 years ago so it has nothing to do with Brexit. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Thomas cook have a meeting 27th September to discuss a £900 million pound rescue package, the banks are saying they will need an extra £200 million to help through the winter period.
I am off to turkey on xmas day and am booked with them, ATOL protected so i will at least get my money back if they go into administration.
9,000 people must be panicking over their jobs. When i rang yesterday to see what is going on i was basically read a script and told it wont happen |
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By *scouple07Couple
over a year ago
louth, Ireland |
"It's down to the ease of creating your own holiday online I think - hotels and cheap flights. Many people no longer see the need for a middle man. Luke"
Agree with this completely, I've organised our last 4 holidays doing it separately including transfers and still done it cheaper than travel agent prices
(Mr) |
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"I have a friend within the travel industry and this has nothing to do with Brexit and has been on the cards for a while. They have come close before Brexit was voted for 3 years ago so it has nothing to do with Brexit. "
True but some ill informed sensationalists will always try to blame things on Brexit. |
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Thomas Cook Group Plc shares have dropped by 49.2% over the past 5 years.
Short term (1 year) commitments are greater than its holdings of cash and other short term assets.
Long term commitments exceed its cash and other short term assets.
It has negative shareholder equity (liabilities exceed assets), this is a more serious situation compared with a high debt level.
It still managed to pay Peter Frankhauser, it's CEO, £2 million in salary and other options in 2017 which was a 52% increase on the previous year. TCG UK market capitalisation was £621 million at that time.
Similar companies with market capitalisations of £307m to £1200m paid their CEOs a median renumerative package of £407k.
So, an underperforming company with a CEO 'earning' way more than his counterparts in similar companies.
I anticipate that his 2018 renumeration will have been even higher and other company executives will have been, likewise, rewarded.
I doubt that TCG will survive the weekend; the wealthy executives will walk away, the taxpayer will pick up the costs of repatriating holiday makers stranded overseas and TC high street shops will close and it's unlikely that the staff will receive any payment beyond their earned wages to that point.
If you have booked a future holiday with TC you should be protected if the holiday was flight and accommodation. If you booked a future flight only, it's unlikely you will get your money back if the company goes into administration. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Brexit - Tax’s - global markets
Too many factors coming into account.
Cash flow is king - just running out of cash. Looks to me like they’ve tried to reduce debt but in turn has backfired due to lack of cash.
But driving factor is - increase on fuel costs, Brexit uncertainty so people aren’t travelling as far + the cost of travelling has increased. People are realising you can get away cheaper by booking everything yourself as oppose to package holidays.
Net debt - £(389)M free cash flow £(148)M
Debtors come knocking eventually. They’re going under - there’s speculation in the markets russians are looking for a buyout - hedged through Turkish companies.
£150M on exceptional items oppose to £105M last year - small cap company working with £9bn turnover can seriously destroyed it.
Don’t be surprised to see some ‘accounting’ errors being unwinded now. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Thomas Cook going under wow, don't know if it's Brexit or not, stopped following your Brexit it got very boring long ago, but it does look bad the £ being so low against the Euro, and all the big business names that have folded in the last twelve months, just seems to appear that the UK economy is in a bad way, just saying whether rightly or wrongly as an outsider looking in.
Can't help feeling for all those that will lose their jobs if it can't be saved. |
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By *wingfellowMan
over a year ago
my own little sanctuary |
I would put it down to the fact that a lot of airlines now have ‘sky partners’ meaning if I wanted to fly with Thomas cook I could likely book it all elsewhere far cheaper and still fly with them. They charge way more than most places so they’ve gone for bigger margins as oppose to volume and it’s cost them... that’s my evaluation anyway but I don’t have much knowledge on this. |
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Personally, it may cost me a couple of hundred quids more but I prefer to do it all myself.
Flights at a time that suits me, transfer straight to the hotel rather than a Beano round the island dropping off the less fortunate individuals at the awful looking apparently 4 star resorts that's probably a 2 star at best then after about 50 drop offs get to our hotel.
No thanks, private booking please.
Hotel booked director taylored to our requirements.
Used Thomas Cook once about 14 year's ago and they where absolutely pants. |
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By *xhib12Man
over a year ago
Blyth |
Look at where the majority of their holidays are Tunisia, Egypt, etc?
Thomas Cook were advised years ago that their market was weak. Sticking to destinations where various governments were advising their people not to visit was never a very good marketing strategy. They gambled with this and have lost. |
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Like BHS, Maplin and numerous other high street chains, they were too slow to react to a changing marketplace.
I went into a WH Smith for the first time in years last week - expect to see that fold by next year. |
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By *latinumkittenWoman
over a year ago
from Home Counties to Middle Earth |
They're a dinosaur who have directed energies with arrogance/immaturity and not kept up with changing times. This is not the first bail out plan, or severances; I'm not sure if it'll be the last. Any race to the bottom is always going to fail, and their 'added value' in this changing market is minimal.
I'm in the industry and I'd never deal with them. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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No foresight, they bought 3 years worth of flights in advance without factoring in the collapse of the Pound due to Brexit (which mistceveryone else saw coming). They have now lost money on those flights and without massively increasing prices to cover the purchase price they can't sell them.
Bad forward planning, business experts were predicting the Pound or Euro to crash 3 years ago. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I’m due to fly out to Egypt tomorrow with Thomas Cook looking doubtful now."
he died in 1892 anyway..take cheeky69 or Annabelle instead .(good luck anyway)  |
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"Taxpayer shouldn't bale out mismanagement.
-Average Joe ."
If it was only that simple.
It's the taxpayer owned RBS that is holding out for the extra 200 million.
So if RBS digs its heels in and TC goes bust, not only will the taxpayer owned bank have to write off massive debts but the government will have to pay for the repatriation of around 180,000 stranded holiday makers.
I'm sure that someone somewhere will be doing the maths on this. |
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"Who thought that this super giant are close to a collapse? They need £200mill to survive, how do you think it got to this point, could it be down to brexit?"
nope.... its because they basically spuff all there money from becoming a holiday company into trying to become an airline company who sell holidays.....
the holiday bit of the company is viable... the airline bit isn't.....
at this stage its almost as self-fulfilling prophacy they will go bankrupt because there is zero chance i would buy a holiday/plane ticket thru them if there is a chance they could wind up tomorrow and i'd be left with nothing.... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I have been on 3 hugs hols recently, I went via travel agents for prices, and also priced up myself. I saved over just under 2Kfor the three trips, it's a no brainer if they can't compete  |
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"How can it be down to brexit, brexit hasn't happened yet!
Fact us margins on holidays are tight, £ is worth 25% less that's £50,000,000 accounted for, and wages are still low compared to inflation first luxury to cut is holidays. The fuss and incompitant mangment of brexit has affected the value of the pound, and these enough to wipeout package holiday operators profits to the point they are running on a loss
"
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Thomas Cook executive director salary
£420,000 per year 150% bonus opportunity. cash allowance in lieu of pension or 20% of salary and accommodation allowance of £8,333 |
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"I just don't understand how it can "suddenly" find itself so much in debt! Did someone open the till and say "Oh shit hang on everyone, there was £200m in here yesterday and it's gone now!"?  "
There is no "suddenly" about it.
TC has been building up debt for a decade or more, totalling 1.6 billion.
A 975 million rescue plan was in place but the banks, mainly RBS, demanded that another 200 million was in place to tide the company over the winter.
That money couldn't be found so the whole deal fell apart.
Even if it had been found it would have been nothing more than a sticking plaster.
The seeds of the problem were sown when it took over the old (and failing) MyTravel group and those seeds were well watered when it bet the farm on the high street by taking on the old Co-Op travel shops.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Sorry for all the staff ...but this has been on the cards for years ....just not viable business blame the internet ...or britex again"
There are plenty of viable Travel Companys still operating....
TC took on too many struggling smaller companys and struggles from there |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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The government have put into place "opreation dynamo"
That American woman who swam the channel four times is giving a hand,giving a piggy back to help out ,once shes done her lap of honour..
If Thomas Cook was alive today he'd be spinning in his grave...trying to get out.. . |
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"Sorry for all the staff ...but this has been on the cards for years ....just not viable business blame the internet ...or britex again
There are plenty of viable Travel Companys still operating....
TC took on too many struggling smaller companys and struggles from there"
Not so much smaller company's as one big one.
I briefly worked for the MyTravel group when I first moved to Spain in 2004. Even then they were in the shit with a mountain of debt. When the shit finally hit the fan in 2007 TC stepped in and took the lot over and saddled itself with an unsustainable mountain of debt.
Then when someone should have told them "when you are in a hole stop digging" they decided that high street travel shops were still the way forward.  So they took on the old Co-Op travel chain.
It seems to me that someone was more keen on building an empire than running a profitable business.
Now the result is there for all to see.
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I naturally put it down to losses in the high street, travel agent TC shops.
Business rates, property rates and of course wages. Perhaps as much as £5k per store per month.
But then, TUI probably pay the same out and they are doing (as far as I'm aware).
Sadly, a badly run company.
Condolences to staff and customers. |
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I last book with TC 4 years ago to Cape Verde over Christmas new year. A week before I was due to go there was panic in the market place and talk of them going under! I vowed never to use them again and haven’t.
We would of been ok tho the pilot/captain and all the crew were there for both weeks with a change over in the middle so they would of been stranded too! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Sorry for all the staff ...but this has been on the cards for years ....just not viable business blame the internet ...or britex again
There are plenty of viable Travel Companys still operating....
TC took on too many struggling smaller companys and struggles from there
Not so much smaller company's as one big one.
I briefly worked for the MyTravel group when I first moved to Spain in 2004. Even then they were in the shit with a mountain of debt. When the shit finally hit the fan in 2007 TC stepped in and took the lot over and saddled itself with an unsustainable mountain of debt.
Then when someone should have told them "when you are in a hole stop digging" they decided that high street travel shops were still the way forward. So they took on the old Co-Op travel chain.
It seems to me that someone was more keen on building an empire than running a profitable business.
Now the result is there for all to see.
"
I thought they had merge with one or two more but cant find the names or links now.. I could be wrong but ya I agree it was too focused on building an empire well put  |
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"Sorry for all the staff ...but this has been on the cards for years ....just not viable business blame the internet ...or britex again
There are plenty of viable Travel Companys still operating....
TC took on too many struggling smaller companys and struggles from there
Not so much smaller company's as one big one.
I briefly worked for the MyTravel group when I first moved to Spain in 2004. Even then they were in the shit with a mountain of debt. When the shit finally hit the fan in 2007 TC stepped in and took the lot over and saddled itself with an unsustainable mountain of debt.
Then when someone should have told them "when you are in a hole stop digging" they decided that high street travel shops were still the way forward. So they took on the old Co-Op travel chain.
It seems to me that someone was more keen on building an empire than running a profitable business.
Now the result is there for all to see.
I thought they had merge with one or two more but cant find the names or links now.. I could be wrong but ya I agree it was too focused on building an empire well put "
Some of the smaller names (Airtours, Direct Holidays Etc) would have been part of the MyTravel group. That lot had more names than the Royal Family. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Thomas cook were taking bookings up to midnight ( declared in administration at 2am)
They were still in business at that time. They were probably taking advice to do just that."
that would be government advice..take peoples savings who might not see it again |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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My daughter turns 7 in November, weve also had some really really "trying times" over the last 3 years. Guess who booked to take her to Disneyland Paris with TC in October? I have an atol number so, allegedly, I'll get my money back. Not really much comfort atm to be fair. I used a travel agent as I'm new to the game and wanted to make sure we were "safe". |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"My daughter turns 7 in November, weve also had some really really "trying times" over the last 3 years. Guess who booked to take her to Disneyland Paris with TC in October? I have an atol number so, allegedly, I'll get my money back. Not really much comfort atm to be fair. I used a travel agent as I'm new to the game and wanted to make sure we were "safe"."
Much as that’s very sad for you and your daughter you will get your money back ATOL have said they will try to process all claims by the end of the month.
I feel sorry for my TC friends those who fly or are left in resort helping to repatriate the 150,000 stranded. They have chosen to be the ultimate professionals and go to work knowing they won’t get paid this month, unfortunately ATOL won’t cover their mortgage/rent payments nor will it stop their kids from going hungry.
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"My daughter turns 7 in November, weve also had some really really "trying times" over the last 3 years. Guess who booked to take her to Disneyland Paris with TC in October? I have an atol number so, allegedly, I'll get my money back. Not really much comfort atm to be fair. I used a travel agent as I'm new to the game and wanted to make sure we were "safe".
Much as that’s very sad for you and your daughter you will get your money back ATOL have said they will try to process all claims by the end of the month.
I feel sorry for my TC friends those who fly or are left in resort helping to repatriate the 150,000 stranded. They have chosen to be the ultimate professionals and go to work knowing they won’t get paid this month, unfortunately ATOL won’t cover their mortgage/rent payments nor will it stop their kids from going hungry.
"
Hats off to the good guys in this |
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By *andS66Couple
over a year ago
Derby |
Not heard anything from Extinction Rebellion or the Green Party about the environmental benefits of all those cancelled flights yet. Plus employees not using their cars to get to work and back, computer systems, lighting and power in their shops all now not being used - the benefits to the environment must be huge. |
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"Not heard anything from Extinction Rebellion or the Green Party about the environmental benefits of all those cancelled flights yet. Plus employees not using their cars to get to work and back, computer systems, lighting and power in their shops all now not being used - the benefits to the environment must be huge."
Greta will be happy then. |
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In out experience doing it yourself is always cheaper than agencies. Thomas Cook wanted £700 for the two of us at a 2 star hotel in Barcelona, online we were able to get it for less than £500 with a 4 star hotel, near the beach, and get an extra day by changing flight times. It can be a pain fiddling with things to get a good price, and stressful, so totally get why people like agents. Digital is taking over almost everywhere though so it's inevitable. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"My daughter turns 7 in November, weve also had some really really "trying times" over the last 3 years. Guess who booked to take her to Disneyland Paris with TC in October? I have an atol number so, allegedly, I'll get my money back. Not really much comfort atm to be fair. I used a travel agent as I'm new to the game and wanted to make sure we were "safe".
Much as that’s very sad for you and your daughter you will get your money back ATOL have said they will try to process all claims by the end of the month.
I feel sorry for my TC friends those who fly or are left in resort helping to repatriate the 150,000 stranded. They have chosen to be the ultimate professionals and go to work knowing they won’t get paid this month, unfortunately ATOL won’t cover their mortgage/rent payments nor will it stop their kids from going hungry.
"
I cant even download an ATOL form until at least 30 Sept then can expect to wait up to 3 months for my money back |
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"
Much as that’s very sad, you will get your money back ATOL have said they will try to process all claims by the end of the month. "
" I cant even download an ATOL form until at least 30 Sept then can expect to wait up to 3 months for my money back"
This is the benefit of booking with a travel agent, they have supplies of the claims forms and will usually rebook your holiday without the necessity of paying up front, instead your claim will be used against the new holiday. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Who thought that this super giant are close to a collapse? They need £200mill to survive, how do you think it got to this point, could it be down to brexit?"
Down to Brexit?
Do you think so?
In which country is the head quarters and roots of The Land of Haribo?
The failure of Thomas Cook is down to corporate greed.
Nothing else. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
Much as that’s very sad, you will get your money back ATOL have said they will try to process all claims by the end of the month.
I cant even download an ATOL form until at least 30 Sept then can expect to wait up to 3 months for my money back
This is the benefit of booking with a travel agent, they have supplies of the claims forms and will usually rebook your holiday without the necessity of paying up front, instead your claim will be used against the new holiday. "
The downside of booking with a travel agent is, you don't really know if you've booked with Thomas Crook or travel agent. You just sign the bottom of the contract where it says "sign here" and trust Visa to pick up the bill if you've been a complete numpty. |
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"I’m due to fly out to Egypt tomorrow with Thomas Cook looking doubtful now."
Well I made it out there just, had a brilliant holiday and thanks to the CAA a safe and hassle free flight back last night. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Government officials at the airport. It was very well organised "
We still have more rescue flights to operate. Luckily we had some spare aircraft to do this. |
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By *adetMan
over a year ago
South of Ipswich |
"Government officials at the airport. It was very well organised
We still have more rescue flights to operate. Luckily we had some spare aircraft to do this. "
They were really good. Checked us in immediately and we didn't even have to queue  |
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