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blood sports
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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am a country bumpkin me...so will face the wrath of every one here and say I am for it....in certain forms.....not going to condone things like badger baiting, hare coarsing etc tho |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"am a country bumpkin me...so will face the wrath of every one here and say I am for it....in certain forms.....not going to condone things like badger baiting, hare coarsing etc tho"
Im not a country bumpkin, but I am definitely a supporter of hunting, and have partaken in the sport. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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Hunting has always been a sport in various forms.
Animal kill fest?
Well the animal is going to die, does the way the sport is carried out or what people wear really have a bearing? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Ahhh the kill fests........can almost smell the sweat of the horses now....the horn... see the dogs barking......and old mrs jones from next door running across the fields fleeing for her life.....hor fox for jacket hanging from her shoulders.....oh those halcyon days  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Hunting has always been a sport in various forms.
Animal kill fest?
Well the animal is going to die, does the way the sport is carried out or what people wear really have a bearing?"
As long as the animal meets it's ultimate death quickly then I really have no problem....have not hunted foxes on horse back, but have shot them...along with lots of other vermin...and will continue to do it with a clear consience |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I don't agree with fox hunting etc, I know alot of people will say it is essential to keep the numbers down, but I don't think it should be called a sport, how can killing an animal be a sport?
I cannot see how dressing up to go and kill an animal is something to be proud of.
I know people will have strong views on both sides of this arguement and this is just my opinion. x |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Am certainly not a toff........but shoot any foxes on my land and will continue to do so.....is a case of either them or my poultry....and the fox will lose every time |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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oh i thought this was going to be a kinky thread about muff diving while the painters were in lol
oh well
seriously fox hunting should be banned, dog fighting is banned as is badger baiting, as well they should be, but to me theres no difference its just the class of people that do it, for some reason if your rich its ok to kill an animal in the name of sport!! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I am totally against blood sports such as hunting .... hounding an animal to death purely for fun is barbaric and inhumane and those partaking in such things should be thrown to the lions  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I'm a country lad, but I'm against it. I don't have a problem with hunting for food, or for vermin contol, but I'm against hunting purely for sport.
Made me laugh when I had two toffs in my local trying to justify fox hunting. One sad its a very effective method for controlling the fox population. The other then said, "its not as if we cause a lot of pain to foxes, we very rarely catch any"  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I am very much against hunting AND those who hunt. In the past i have helped sabotage hunts and have absolutely no time for anyone who thinks it's good 'sport' to hunt and kill an animal. Foxes do not need controlling as nature does that naturally, and the vixen only has a number of cubs depending on what the surrounding area can sustain. Also a fox is not built for a long chase and when it gets pursued by a load of blood thirsty idiots it's body goes into shut down and the internal organs start to rupture, so even if it does manage to get away it will probably still die in agony somewhere.
To me hunters (and i don't mean inuits etc who hunt for food) show a complete contempt for any other forms of life and are so arrogant that they think humans have some god given right to treat other life as they see fit. Just look at the Canadian governments example of killing 500,000 seals because their eating 'our' fish...our fish...how arrogant can you get?
What enjoyment you get from taking a life is beyond me - i just think your very very sick and sad! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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gothica speaks true words,, hunting should be outlawed ,,i applaude all of you against it ,,animals ,have a blood systen a nerve system ,,they have feelings ,,sences just the same as us |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Totally against....
If it was to cull over populated animals then so be it.
But when its used as a one sided sport to amuse those who think they are elitist and its their god given right.
No.
thats my own personal opinion and nothing else. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Can i also add .......
That there is absolutely NO justification or moral high ground these so called landed gentry have when watching a pack of hounds tear to pieces, a fox , hare or whatever and call it a SPORT.
A sport is when its an equal fight between two consenting sides .
Not the slaughter for fun.
and bloody fur coats.
ill get off me soap box now   |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Oh thats the one i hide in me drawers ....
the others i eat 
once used a banana in a very sexual way whilst in turkey..... 
And to get me own back on someone. i stuck it back in the fruit bowl after.,
How bad is that eh. lmao |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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There is a difference Mr2, while some people may eat meat (not me I might add) Im sure they don't call the killing of the meat they eat a sport and probably don't dress up in costume to kill it.
Personally I don't eat meat haven't in over 15 years but I don't condemn people who do, I do however take great offence of people who have fun killing animals and dragging out their death.
I love what Gothica wrote and agree whole heartidly. x |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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If I was going to kill an animal,it would have to be something I could eat and would be killed in the quickest, most humane way possible.
I'd never shoot anything just to watch it drop!
As for vermin,as in being noxious, causing damage and destruction to other living things and property, humans are the most verminous creature on the planet.
Every town in the country has more than its fair share of verminous humans.
Now if your going to declare open season on them.....sign me up!
XXXX |
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By *emmefataleWoman
over a year ago
dirtybigbadsgirlville |
"If I was going to kill an animal,it would have to be something I could eat and would be killed in the quickest, most humane way possible.
I'd never shoot anything just to watch it drop!
As for vermin,as in being noxious, causing damage and destruction to other living things and property, humans are the most verminous creature on the planet.
Every town in the country has more than its fair share of verminous humans.
Now if your going to declare open season on them.....sign me up!
XXXX"
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
As for vermin,as in being noxious, causing damage and destruction to other living things and property, humans are the most verminous creature on the planet.
Every town in the country has more than its fair share of verminous humans.
Now if your going to declare open season on them.....sign me up!
XXXX"
Excellent comment!
I find it quite sorrowful that people see money as more important than a life and merely tag a 'vermin' label to things that they don't want around and kill.
Shame so many people see other life as a commodity to be used and abused as the human race sees fit.
Hypothetically, If the governments of the world decided that people needed culling to save mankind just how many of these hunters would be ok if it was them, or a loved one who was selected to die. Or do they view their lives as being more important to the world than a foxes, a whale, a shark, a tiger....the list goes on.
Aw well keep it up and there wont be anything left alive to drive to extinction. The human race...how proud to be a part of it eh! |
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By *ig badMan
over a year ago
Up North :-) |
"
As for vermin,as in being noxious, causing damage and destruction to other living things and property, humans are the most verminous creature on the planet.
Every town in the country has more than its fair share of verminous humans.
Now if your going to declare open season on them.....sign me up!
XXXX
Excellent comment!
I find it quite sorrowful that people see money as more important than a life and merely tag a 'vermin' label to things that they don't want around and kill.
Shame so many people see other life as a commodity to be used and abused as the human race sees fit.
Hypothetically, If the governments of the world decided that people needed culling to save mankind just how many of these hunters would be ok if it was them, or a loved one who was selected to die. Or do they view their lives as being more important to the world than a foxes, a whale, a shark, a tiger....the list goes on.
Aw well keep it up and there wont be anything left alive to drive to extinction. The human race...how proud to be a part of it eh! "
bit highbrow that mate |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I wonder how many of those opposed to it eat meat "
i dont eat meat but even so i cant see the connection between killing an animal for fun and killing an animal for food |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Been reading this with interest, and have noticed that the main theme developed has been on the middle/upper classes getting all togged up for a gallop across country to hunt down foxes.
Rapunzel made a valid comment earlier in this thread that even fishing has been considered a blood sport, yet no one has seen fit to condemn the millions of coarse and sea anglers in the country for pursuing this activity?
Blood sports come in a variety of forms, most of which a frowned upon by society. I do not condone blood sports for fun. I would not pay to go grouse/pheasant shooting or deer stalking on the estates up here any more than I would consider going to a dog fight, cock fight, bull fight, hare coarsing etc etc etc.
However, I would consider going deer hunting on my own, and have shot pheasants, rabbits and pigeons etc, but merely to put food on my table and I have never shot more than I need for a meal at any one time.
I do shoot foxes. Any fox that comes near my poultry is, as far as I am concerned, pushing his luck and most definitely not welcome. There is plenty of wild food for them about the area here so I am not going to sit back and provide easy pickings for them in my poultry houses. It is not as if they just kill what they need to eat, they'll kill indiscriminately and leave the carnage behind.
I don't need to shoot rats and small verimin, have plenty of cats that wage that war of attriciaon with an efficient gusto.
I have been a vegetarian for many years, however have recently acquired a pig and intend to breed from him so that I can fill my freezer, and will also get some sheep and cows for same reason. I see no moral difference in my killing and eating meat myself and in having someone kill and butcher it for me.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I wonder how many of those opposed to it eat meat
i dont eat meat but even so i cant see the connection between killing an animal for fun and killing an animal for food"
The connection is quite simple. If folk were genuinely concerned about animal cruelty, which is what is being purported here then they would be way more concerned about how they allow meat to enter into the food chain.
Next time you are tucking into your Chicken Tikka ask yourself what sort of existence did that bird have. Do any amount of research you want on battery farming then you will see what true cruelty to animals is.
There is sod all humane in herding cattle, pigs and sheep into a slaughter house to use electricity to stun them, which does not always work then stringing them up by a hind leg so you can cut their throats and bleed them out.
Do you ever eat Pate, enough said.
The way that meat is mass produced is far more cruel than any bloody fox hunt and I wonder how many of you will be bearing that in mind next time you pick up your pack of Sainsbury's economy chicken etc.
A fox is not only a pest but it also displays it's own extremely cruel tendencies in that it also kills for fun as well as to eat. They are wild animals that roam freely and get to live a much better life that anything ever did that ends up on a supermarket shelf. Most of them get to live to a ripe old age and die of natural causes and I suspect that statistically more probably die in the course of a year being hit by cars than killed by the Hunt.
I am not saying Hunting is not cruel but fox numbers have to be controlled somehow and for those of you who happily buy cheap eggs, cheap chicken, cheap pork ete etc to then say hunting is cruel smacks just a little of double standards.
I have always wondered if it was not the toffs that did it but it was a pastime of us oiks how many folk would be so opposed to it then as the class thing always raises it's ugly head when this matter is discussed?
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If you substitute hunting for the word killing ,it does not really hang together as rationally as its portrayed.
If it is the "SPORT" these people want then why not drag hunt,what is so important about the "KILL" and if you want the Sport of pitching your wits against an animal ,get rid of the horse and the gun and meet the animal on equal terms ...?
Re fishing ,fish are a finite resource and disappearing quickly from the oceans due to over fishing and massive catch all drag nets which also decimate the ocean floor.Compared to that the riverbank fisherman does little damage,and invariably throws the fish back.They apparently do more damage with lead shot ...(thankfully now phased out) and erosion to river banks.
However the old tale about fish do not feel pain has now been proven false . |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I wonder how many of those opposed to it eat meat
i dont eat meat but even so i cant see the connection between killing an animal for fun and killing an animal for food
The connection is quite simple. If folk were genuinely concerned about animal cruelty, which is what is being purported here then they would be way more concerned about how they allow meat to enter into the food chain.
Next time you are tucking into your Chicken Tikka ask yourself what sort of existence did that bird have. Do any amount of research you want on battery farming then you will see what true cruelty to animals is.
There is sod all humane in herding cattle, pigs and sheep into a slaughter house to use electricity to stun them, which does not always work then stringing them up by a hind leg so you can cut their throats and bleed them out.
Do you ever eat Pate, enough said.
The way that meat is mass produced is far more cruel than any bloody fox hunt and I wonder how many of you will be bearing that in mind next time you pick up your pack of Sainsbury's economy chicken etc.
A fox is not only a pest but it also displays it's own extremely cruel tendencies in that it also kills for fun as well as to eat. They are wild animals that roam freely and get to live a much better life that anything ever did that ends up on a supermarket shelf. Most of them get to live to a ripe old age and die of natural causes and I suspect that statistically more probably die in the course of a year being hit by cars than killed by the Hunt.
I am not saying Hunting is not cruel but fox numbers have to be controlled somehow and for those of you who happily buy cheap eggs, cheap chicken, cheap pork ete etc to then say hunting is cruel smacks just a little of double standards.
I have always wondered if it was not the toffs that did it but it was a pastime of us oiks how many folk would be so opposed to it then as the class thing always raises it's ugly head when this matter is discussed?
"
Totally agree .
We , the general public are not interested in HOW the cheap chicken, beef etc , came to their table and im presuming they dont want to know.
They are governed by their purses especially when trying to feed a family on a small wage.
No amount of justifying it and telling them about battery farming and mass producing with change their minds .
On occasions when having people for dinner, i have had to go and buy meat.
I will only buy the best, organic and free range normally from source.
Be it expensive, But i can do that as i have the means to do it.
A lot of my friends cant and still need to feed a family. etc.
This debate will continue and we will argue and disagree.
Its a cruel world out there and all i can do is MY bit to ensure i have played a small part in lessening the cruelty. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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But have you? Can you be sure that all the veg you purchase has not had cruelty implications liked with it?
It's accepted that getting the veg from the ground is the hardest and most labor intensive part of this type of farming. In order to keep the business model working farmers are forced to pay an absolute pittance, often to gang masters who offer cheap immigrant labor, often cheap illegal immigrant labor. These people are effectively being financially raped by both the poor farmer who often has not choice and the unscrupulous gangs who exploit them.
Maybe next time you are chewing on a carrot you would do well to consider at what cost was it provided for you 
None of this is a dig at anyone it's just an alternative spin on what at time can be a very emotive subject.
I doubt anyone would argue, although I fully expect someone will, that fox numbers need to be controlled however how do you control them effectively.
Shooting, trapping or poison at not always 100% successful and the inevitable suffering for the animal as it slowly dies is awful to consider.
Whilst some of us are of the opinion that hunting is barbaric at least once caught the fox dies extremely quickly and is 100% successful.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"But have you? Can you be sure that all the veg you purchase has not had cruelty implications liked with it?
It's accepted that getting the veg from the ground is the hardest and most labor intensive part of this type of farming. In order to keep the business model working farmers are forced to pay an absolute pittance, often to gang masters who offer cheap immigrant labor, often cheap illegal immigrant labor. These people are effectively being financially raped by both the poor farmer who often has not choice and the unscrupulous gangs who exploit them.
Maybe next time you are chewing on a carrot you would do well to consider at what cost was it provided for you
"
It's why I grow my own |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"But have you? Can you be sure that all the veg you purchase has not had cruelty implications liked with it?
It's accepted that getting the veg from the ground is the hardest and most labor intensive part of this type of farming. In order to keep the business model working farmers are forced to pay an absolute pittance, often to gang masters who offer cheap immigrant labor, often cheap illegal immigrant labor. These people are effectively being financially raped by both the poor farmer who often has not choice and the unscrupulous gangs who exploit them.
Maybe next time you are chewing on a carrot you would do well to consider at what cost was it provided for you
It's why I grow my own"
Vegetables...........but you live in Scotland |
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I wouldnt hunt myself, but i have nothing against those who do.
I'm a town boy and i don't see it as my business to tell people in the country how to live their lives.
As far as fox hunting is concerned, all the stuff i have read says that everyone agrees on one thing - that the numbers of foxes have to be and will be controlled. Thus if you are anti-hunting, and the people who live in the country need to control the number of foxes, then make the choice between gassing them or shooting them, up to you...
The debate on this gets lost in so called "class war" but it's no truer to say that people who hunt foxes are all toffs than it is to say that all football fans are working class- it's just a sweeping generalisation which suits those who are anti-hunt.
There's a massive amount of hypocrisy surrounding animal welfare and hunting. There's a kind of animal neo-fascism going on where anything which is "cute" with a "face" or a "smile" (foxes and dolphins) people care about - These same people will kill the spider in the bath without a second though 'cos he's got 8 legs and is an ugly bugger.
The one that makes me piss my pants are the people who buy "dolphin friendly" Tuna and think they are doing a good thing. Did anyone ever ask the Tuna what they think about that? "The dolphin is cute and very intelligent with a cute smile so we want to save them. You on the other hand mate, are a big dumb ugly tuna fish and you taste great with mayo, so basically, tough luck Mr Tuna".
People who have strong, thought out and passionately held views on topics like this, from both sides, i have no problem with. But the people who are just against killing "cute" things because it's "bad" make me want to scream.
And, as has been mentioned, there is a massive double standard regarding food productions etc - thousands of people who would class themselves as "anti-hunting" and "pro-animal welfare" will happily stuff their kids mouths with chicken nuggets whilst tut tutting about fox hunting and not see the irony in their actions.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I wouldnt hunt myself, but i have nothing against those who do.
I'm a town boy and i don't see it as my business to tell people in the country how to live their lives.
As far as fox hunting is concerned, all the stuff i have read says that everyone agrees on one thing - that the numbers of foxes have to be and will be controlled. Thus if you are anti-hunting, and the people who live in the country need to control the number of foxes, then make the choice between gassing them or shooting them, up to you...
The debate on this gets lost in so called "class war" but it's no truer to say that people who hunt foxes are all toffs than it is to say that all football fans are working class- it's just a sweeping generalisation which suits those who are anti-hunt.
There's a massive amount of hypocrisy surrounding animal welfare and hunting. There's a kind of animal neo-fascism going on where anything which is "cute" with a "face" or a "smile" (foxes and dolphins) people care about - These same people will kill the spider in the bath without a second though 'cos he's got 8 legs and is an ugly bugger.
The one that makes me piss my pants are the people who buy "dolphin friendly" Tuna and think they are doing a good thing. Did anyone ever ask the Tuna what they think about that? "The dolphin is cute and very intelligent with a cute smile so we want to save them. You on the other hand mate, are a big dumb ugly tuna fish and you taste great with mayo, so basically, tough luck Mr Tuna".
People who have strong, thought out and passionately held views on topics like this, from both sides, i have no problem with. But the people who are just against killing "cute" things because it's "bad" make me want to scream.
And, as has been mentioned, there is a massive double standard regarding food productions etc - thousands of people who would class themselves as "anti-hunting" and "pro-animal welfare" will happily stuff their kids mouths with chicken nuggets whilst tut tutting about fox hunting and not see the irony in their actions.
"
An inteligent and eloquent post, i applaude you xxx |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"But have you? Can you be sure that all the veg you purchase has not had cruelty implications liked with it?
It's accepted that getting the veg from the ground is the hardest and most labor intensive part of this type of farming. In order to keep the business model working farmers are forced to pay an absolute pittance, often to gang masters who offer cheap immigrant labor, often cheap illegal immigrant labor. These people are effectively being financially raped by both the poor farmer who often has not choice and the unscrupulous gangs who exploit them.
Maybe next time you are chewing on a carrot you would do well to consider at what cost was it provided for you
It's why I grow my own
Vegetables...........but you live in Scotland "
lolol......and is a nation of vegetables...or should that be vegetable lovers??? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"But have you? Can you be sure that all the veg you purchase has not had cruelty implications liked with it?
It's accepted that getting the veg from the ground is the hardest and most labor intensive part of this type of farming. In order to keep the business model working farmers are forced to pay an absolute pittance, often to gang masters who offer cheap immigrant labor, often cheap illegal immigrant labor. These people are effectively being financially raped by both the poor farmer who often has not choice and the unscrupulous gangs who exploit them.
Maybe next time you are chewing on a carrot you would do well to consider at what cost was it provided for you
It's why I grow my own
Vegetables...........but you live in Scotland
lolol......and is a nation of vegetables...or should that be vegetable lovers???"
Or should that be a nation of deep fat fryers |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"But have you? Can you be sure that all the veg you purchase has not had cruelty implications liked with it?
It's accepted that getting the veg from the ground is the hardest and most labor intensive part of this type of farming. In order to keep the business model working farmers are forced to pay an absolute pittance, often to gang masters who offer cheap immigrant labor, often cheap illegal immigrant labor. These people are effectively being financially raped by both the poor farmer who often has not choice and the unscrupulous gangs who exploit them.
Maybe next time you are chewing on a carrot you would do well to consider at what cost was it provided for you
It's why I grow my own
Vegetables...........but you live in Scotland
lolol......and is a nation of vegetables...or should that be vegetable lovers???
Or should that be a nation of deep fat fryers "
it really comes down to something when, just because a majority of the population deep fry everything from mars bars to macaroni cheese then we all get tarred with the same oily brush.....tschhhhh
Am a healthy eater me....only the best carrots, peas, turnips etc ever get anywhere near my built in deep fat fryer
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Im a fan of hugh fernly whitingstall and reckon that if we are to eat meat, and veg, fish etc
We should at least know of the process involved.
From birth to slaughter and know where our food comes from, and what conditions they were kept in.
We as a nation , believe that "supermarkets" that advocate good practises can be believed but we have found out that alot cant be.
So what do we do to change things.?
Only buy the best we can afford and from reputable shops.
Grow your own etc. as i do.
This will not change my mind on hunting as i feel its barbaric.
I have no problem with managing a problem (foxes) as long as its done humanely and quickly. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Just to address the point about fox hunters being just from the so called middle/upper classes of society; in my experience people who go on a hunt are from all walks of life, professions and class distinctions. It is not a practice confined to the ’elite’ but any old blood thirsty idiot who thinks it’s great to kill a defenceless animal can join. Oh and as the morons ride off in pursuit of a fox there is usually a group of thugs following to make sure no films are made of the cruelty involved and to harass and attack anyone who feels like protesting. There has even been a group of pensioners led by an elderly vicar who were deemed such a threat to the hunt they were protesting against that someone decided to plough into them in a car!
" I doubt anyone would argue, although I fully expect someone will, that fox numbers need to be controlled however how do you control them effectively."
Yes, I will argue against that because it is totally untrue. As I have stated before fox numbers are controlled by mother nature and a vixen will only have a number of cubs that area can sustain. If the land can sustain two cubs she will have two cubs; that’s the marvel of nature! A few years ago the Countryside Alliance decided to make us all believe that foxes were the biggest menace to the land since the threat of Nazi invasion and undertook a study to prove that fox numbers were too great and for some reason they needed ’controlling’ and therefore fox hunters were doing us all a service. However, the study showed that fox numbers are controlled by nature and they were not a threat at all and so the red faced Countryside Alliance decided to say the people that they paid to undertake the study must have been bribed by an organization such the League Against Cruel Sports….heaven forbid they admit they were wrong! A few years back hunters said it was tradition to hunt and they enjoyed doing it but when people started to state their disgust at hunting the new line was that foxes needed controlling….it’s a lie that hunts keep spouting when in actuality they just get some kick out of seeing a fox torn to pieces! If any species needs controlling its humans. There’s far too many of us on this planet and very soon there’s going to be around nine billion of us and rising, so do we say we need controlling and eliminate a large part of the human race…or would people see that as barbaric and the taking of life is wrong???
"
Whilst some of us are of the opinion that hunting is barbaric at least once caught the fox dies extremely quickly and is 100% successful.
"
No it doesn’t. Firstly, imagine yourself walking down the street and being set upon by a large pack of dogs. You would feel complete terror, every bite and tearing of flesh would be felt and your body would be feeling complete trauma. You wouldn’t die quickly but quite slowly and in agony. And a lot of foxes do not die instantly but have to be finished off by a couple of hits to what’s left to it’s head with a shovel and that’s the same shovel they used to dig it out of it’s den. People always say the fox dies instantly but the truth is far different. Also if the fox does get away from being pursued over a long distance it had a very good chance of haemorrhaging and slowly dying in agony because it‘s not made for long distant pursuit, so please lets drop this whole idea that the fox dies quickly without any pain.
One thing that does annoy me is that as soon as you debate cruel blood sports you get the whole ‘do you eat meat’ issue! Am I against blood sports….yes….do I eat meat….yes, on occasion. I for one do not differentiate between humans and the rest of the animal kingdom…I’m an animal and so is anyone who reads this. I don’t see humans as being the ultimate species which is set apart from the rest of life on Earth and I am part of the food chain. I eat meat and if I find myself in the wrong place at the wrong time I can be meat for another species; I eat certain meat from sources where I know how the animal has been kept and will not eat any meat that has been battery farmed etc. People may say I’m a hypocrite for being against blood sports but then eat meat and that’s their prerogative, but eating to live, farming practices and hunting and killing for no reason but ‘fun’ are completely different issues.
The issue about shooting a fox because it may take a chicken or a lamb, or even get into a hen house and kill them all is a tricky one. I for one do not believe it’s right to kill a fox because it may do these things and I’m sure measures can be taken to prevent a fox getting into a hen house, though I do know it may mean extra costs to the farmer and of course it’s easier to just shoot them as their life is deemed to be cheaper and less meaningful than the almighty dollar.
"
then make the choice between gassing them or shooting them, up to you…"
Didn’t Hitler once say something similar? If people take these ideas as he norm and take such casual stances towards killing any form of life then life itself will and is becoming cheaper and cheaper! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Just to address the point about fox hunters being just from the so called middle/upper classes of society; in my experience people who go on a hunt are from all walks of life, professions and class distinctions. It is not a practice confined to the ’elite’ but any old blood thirsty idiot who thinks it’s great to kill a defenceless animal can join. Oh and as the morons ride off in pursuit of a fox there is usually a group of thugs following to make sure no films are made of the cruelty involved and to harass and attack anyone who feels like protesting. There has even been a group of pensioners led by an elderly vicar who were deemed such a threat to the hunt they were protesting against that someone decided to plough into them in a car!
I doubt anyone would argue, although I fully expect someone will, that fox numbers need to be controlled however how do you control them effectively.
Yes, I will argue against that because it is totally untrue. As I have stated before fox numbers are controlled by mother nature and a vixen will only have a number of cubs that area can sustain. If the land can sustain two cubs she will have two cubs; that’s the marvel of nature! A few years ago the Countryside Alliance decided to make us all believe that foxes were the biggest menace to the land since the threat of Nazi invasion and undertook a study to prove that fox numbers were too great and for some reason they needed ’controlling’ and therefore fox hunters were doing us all a service. However, the study showed that fox numbers are controlled by nature and they were not a threat at all and so the red faced Countryside Alliance decided to say the people that they paid to undertake the study must have been bribed by an organization such the League Against Cruel Sports….heaven forbid they admit they were wrong! A few years back hunters said it was tradition to hunt and they enjoyed doing it but when people started to state their disgust at hunting the new line was that foxes needed controlling….it’s a lie that hunts keep spouting when in actuality they just get some kick out of seeing a fox torn to pieces! If any species needs controlling its humans. There’s far too many of us on this planet and very soon there’s going to be around nine billion of us and rising, so do we say we need controlling and eliminate a large part of the human race…or would people see that as barbaric and the taking of life is wrong???
Whilst some of us are of the opinion that hunting is barbaric at least once caught the fox dies extremely quickly and is 100% successful.
No it doesn’t. Firstly, imagine yourself walking down the street and being set upon by a large pack of dogs. You would feel complete terror, every bite and tearing of flesh would be felt and your body would be feeling complete trauma. You wouldn’t die quickly but quite slowly and in agony. And a lot of foxes do not die instantly but have to be finished off by a couple of hits to what’s left to it’s head with a shovel and that’s the same shovel they used to dig it out of it’s den. People always say the fox dies instantly but the truth is far different. Also if the fox does get away from being pursued over a long distance it had a very good chance of haemorrhaging and slowly dying in agony because it‘s not made for long distant pursuit, so please lets drop this whole idea that the fox dies quickly without any pain.
One thing that does annoy me is that as soon as you debate cruel blood sports you get the whole ‘do you eat meat’ issue! Am I against blood sports….yes….do I eat meat….yes, on occasion. I for one do not differentiate between humans and the rest of the animal kingdom…I’m an animal and so is anyone who reads this. I don’t see humans as being the ultimate species which is set apart from the rest of life on Earth and I am part of the food chain. I eat meat and if I find myself in the wrong place at the wrong time I can be meat for another species; I eat certain meat from sources where I know how the animal has been kept and will not eat any meat that has been battery farmed etc. People may say I’m a hypocrite for being against blood sports but then eat meat and that’s their prerogative, but eating to live, farming practices and hunting and killing for no reason but ‘fun’ are completely different issues.
The issue about shooting a fox because it may take a chicken or a lamb, or even get into a hen house and kill them all is a tricky one. I for one do not believe it’s right to kill a fox because it may do these things and I’m sure measures can be taken to prevent a fox getting into a hen house, though I do know it may mean extra costs to the farmer and of course it’s easier to just shoot them as their life is deemed to be cheaper and less meaningful than the almighty dollar.
then make the choice between gassing them or shooting them, up to you…
Didn’t Hitler once say something similar? If people take these ideas as he norm and take such casual stances towards killing any form of life then life itself will and is becoming cheaper and cheaper!"
HERE HERE .
and said much much better than i ever could but whole heartidly agree with all you have said. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I may be remembering this all wrong, but I think the nazi program of extermination of the jewish race began life as a program of sterilisation in order to eradicate disability etc. It was not an idea of hitler's but was one dreamt up in the 1920's by American Doctors.
I have said before, and I will say it again...I am against fox hunting etc etc as a vehicle for blood letting pleasure, but I don't think that gassing foxes will lead to the extermination of human race by pro hunt activists??? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Yum,deep fried fox for me!
In order that organic eggs and such are available to be bought by those who wish to buy them then animals which kill hens indiscriminately,ie foxes and mink, need to be prevented from doing so. This should be done as and when necessary and not for kicks.
Rabbits can also do huge amounts of damage to many different crops and numbers need to be controlled.
I have been involved in controlling local populations of these animals by shooting and will do so again when asked but to kill indiscriminately is wrong as far as im concerned.
If those who object to such controls had seen the inside of a hen house after a visit from a fox then they may change their minds about things. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Now imagine if you could that maybe just maybe there was an element of purpose to hunting as opposed to simple frivolity, it's will be tough for some but making that leap is not to difficult if you believe the posts from some of the rural contributors.
No amount of fluffy hugginess and comfy shoes changes the fact that every item of food we eat has an element of unkindness linked to it.
You can buy the best organically raised corn fed chicken and it does not alter the fact that before it was allowed to grow to a ripe old age some one has picked it up and humanely killed it so that you can enjoy your Chicken Cordon Bleu.
You can let the cows roam as free as they like but it does not alter the fact that at some stage before they die from natural causes someone will either stick an electric prod either side of their ears to stun them or fire a bolt into their brains before stringing them up and cutting their throats.
It does not matter how you dress it up if you eat meat you are condoning the slaughter of thousands upon thousands of animals each year just so you can enjoy your food. You may feel the manner with which they depart this mortal coil is morally more acceptable than the manner with which a fox at the teeth of the pack is killed but in simplistic terms dead is dead.
But as a last thought if you were an animal would you prefer a life where you were bred and fed simply to be slaughtered for the human food chain or would you prefer to be able to roam free and take your chances. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Now imagine if you could that maybe just maybe there was an element of purpose to hunting as opposed to simple frivolity, it's will be tough for some but making that leap is not to difficult if you believe the posts from some of the rural contributors.
No amount of fluffy hugginess and comfy shoes changes the fact that every item of food we eat has an element of unkindness linked to it.
You can buy the best organically raised corn fed chicken and it does not alter the fact that before it was allowed to grow to a ripe old age some one has picked it up and humanely killed it so that you can enjoy your Chicken Cordon Bleu.
You can let the cows roam as free as they like but it does not alter the fact that at some stage before they die from natural causes someone will either stick an electric prod either side of their ears to stun them or fire a bolt into their brains before stringing them up and cutting their throats.
It does not matter how you dress it up if you eat meat you are condoning the slaughter of thousands upon thousands of animals each year just so you can enjoy your food. You may feel the manner with which they depart this mortal coil is morally more acceptable than the manner with which a fox at the teeth of the pack is killed but in simplistic terms dead is dead.
But as a last thought if you were an animal would you prefer a life where you were bred and fed simply to be slaughtered for the human food chain or would you prefer to be able to roam free and take your chances."
So i take it that the debate is no longer one about blood sports, needless hunting and if your for and against such things, but is now transforming into one about farming practices and the ethics involved about eating or not eating meat.
This is what happens every time when the hunting issue is debated as the pro hunt supporters have little else to fall back on but the question of whether you eat meat or not. As i have said humans are not a separate entity from the rest of the planet and we have hunted and fed upon animal and plant life since we crawled from the oceans. The only thing that has changed from the earliest hominids, through the paleolithic, mesolithic, neolithic to the founding of urban civilisation has been the discarding of a hunter gatherer lifestyle to living in permanent settlements and the introduction of farming and livestock management. Rearing an animal for food, milk etc is a lot different, and is a completely different issue to the one concerning hunting an animal for sport, or killing it merely because it's viewed as annoying, vermin or a pest to someone. Personally i think many people are annoying and are alot more than a mere pest but if i decided to chase after them, set dogs on them, gas them, shoot them, smash their skull in with a shovel, snare them so they either strangle, or starve to death slowly unless they chew their own leg off to escape but then die horribly later etc i'd just be arrested. Why is that? Because we view human life as something sacred and special while viewing any other life as being second class to our own which can be destroyed at our whim.
"You may feel the manner with which they depart this mortal coil is morally more acceptable than the manner with which a fox at the teeth of the pack is killed but in simplistic terms dead is dead "
If this is the case and we follow this kind of thinking then none of us should really care less how those around us such as our family and friends die. So it don't matter if they are murdered, die of some disease or die at a ripe old age peacefully in their sleep as dead is dead. Or is it that we go back to seeing those around us and human kind being worth more and have more rights to live than any other life on this planet?
If the debate is moving away from blood sports then i can easily start talking about the rape of the oceans, the destruction of the rain forest, the use of harmful chemicals in food production, the devastation of the landscape all across the world, the alarming rate at which animals and plants are becoming extinct all because the greed of man!!! |
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Gothica - "Didn’t Hitler once say something similar? If people take these ideas as he norm and take such casual stances towards killing any form of life then life itself will and is becoming cheaper and cheaper!"
The funny thing is, i don't have a problem with much of what you're saying.
The quote above though neatly emphasises a point i made earlier about "neo-fascism" in peoples opinions about hunting etc. I stated that folk don't like to see the "nice" animals killed but don't care about spiders, those motherfuckers have no right to be in the bath...
...substitute "jew","gypsy" or "non-aryan" into the aregument i made earlier and you can see where it leads. It's the thin end of a very long, but very real wedge which most people don't see they are on.
Before we get into a whole third reich thing let me say that the point i'm making is that people discriminate on which animals should live or die on the basis of cuteness, rather than any rational argument. Let someone propose getting rid of all ginger haired people and watch the sparks fly....
As with most things in life, the argument isnt as simple as it's often portrayed (by both sides). I see no dichotomy atall in supporting animal rights and being a meat eater - those who do so and have thought through what they do and why i will always support, even if i have a different point of view.
Personally i think the fox hunters lost the argument early on by trying to tackle the anti-hunt element on their own ground and fought a losing battle on "hunt, gas or shoot" terms. What they shouldhave done is argue the antis on the grounds of tradition, freedom of expression and the law.
I have ridden 180mph motorbikes with loud exhaust pipes at horrendous speed down country roads in the past. If you asked me to defend my actions in any rational debate on the subject i couldnt do it. But i don't stop the country folk from doing what they like and they don't stop me from doing what i like - okay the connection and argument is a bit tenuous to say the least, but the world would be a much better place in so many areas if people learned to "live and let live" with those who do things they disagree with. There are far worse things happening in the world than fox hunting and it saddens me that people are less keen to take action to stop them than to try and sabotage a hunt.
I also take expection to people sabotaging others taking part in a legal activity just becuase they don't like it, If we all did that there would be chaos.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I know your link is tenuous but i still do ride at insane speeds on inappropriate roads and cant justify my actions either. Blood sports are not the worlds greatest evil,that title belongs exclusively to humankind alone the worst plague ever to infect the earth
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"I know your link is tenuous but i still do ride at insane speeds on inappropriate roads and cant justify my actions either. Blood sports are not the worlds greatest evil,that title belongs exclusively to humankind alone the worst plague ever to infect the earth
"
Half the population of the planet and you double the amount of resources available.
But who decides who stays and who goes?
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Perhaps someone could point out where I said I was a hunt supporter, I'm not
But because I see the total irony of eating meat yet taking the anti hunt stand I am totally ambivalent on the matter, any other stance simply lacks any credibility and is a little bit foolish.
Those that are content to see thousands upon thousands of live stock slaughtered each year just so they can eat meat yet stamp their feet at the notion of foxes/badgers/rabbits/rats/mice/ in fact you name the pest being culled, in what ever format, really do seem to miss the point completely.
Either every life is sacred or it's kill or be killed, there is no half way house, or am I missing something here. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
I stated that folk don't like to see the "nice" animals killed but don't care about spiders, those motherfuckers have no right to be in the bath..."
I'm one of those people who carefully remove a spider from the bath so it can go on it's merry way. I will not kill something because it's in my way, or i don't like it, or even if i see it as vermin!
"Personally i think the fox hunters lost the argument early on by trying to tackle the anti-hunt element on their own ground and fought a losing battle on "hunt, gas or shoot" terms. What they should have done is argue the antis on the grounds of tradition, freedom of expression and the law."
Fox hunters did start out by saying it was all about tradition but if tradition is about killing innocent animals then it's a tradition i would be glad to see the back of. Slavery and serfdom were once traditional aspects of life but would anyone want those to return? Also the hunters have never really obeyed the law and still break it now with illegal hunts. Hunt saboteurs like myself have had to break laws like tresspass to prevent a fox being torn to pieces but on the other side of the fence the hunters have always tresspassed onto peoples land in pursuit of a fox (even those who have told them not to), they have failed to control their hounds who have killed peoples pets, they have attacked and hospitalised people...well the list goes on. Oh, and when the hounds get to a certain age they are no longer needed, they cost too much to keep and if no home can be found they are killed, which shows the hunters disregard for life. I've even seen a skip full of hound bodies and it was not a pretty sight at all.
"I have ridden 180mph motorbikes with loud exhaust pipes at horrendous speed down country roads in the past. If you asked me to defend my actions in any rational debate on the subject i couldnt do it. But i don't stop the country folk from doing what they like and they don't stop me from doing what i like - okay the connection and argument is a bit tenuous to say the least, but the world would be a much better place in so many areas if people learned to "live and let live" with those who do things they disagree with. There are far worse things happening in the world than fox hunting and it saddens me that people are less keen to take action to stop them than to try and sabotage a hunt."
There are some things that you cannot ignore and allow the 'live and let live' attitude to sway you. If you want to ride your motorbike at fast speeds then thats up to you and i wouldn't want to stop you. I'd be concerned for your and other road users safety but that's your choice. However, if you were going out to run over and kill people and animals then i would try to prevent you riding off on your bike.
Yes there are worse things going on in the world...though i take it that you mean it involves human lives so straight away it becomes more important than an animals life??? It doesn't stop me and many others having concern over animals welfare! And not all who live in the country support hunting either!
I have also protested against many things and you will probably find many of those who have sabotaged or protested against hunting will have probably also protested against other important, non animal related issues. And they are not a bunch of unemployed, trouble making hippies as the papers try to make out. They consist of many people, from many walks of life and many age groups. Sadly, most people who don't care about hunting don't even protest about the 'more important' issues you speak of and prefer to sit at home with the 'i'm alright' attitude, or leave it to someone else to protest for them. Recently i have protested against hospital closures and we had little support, but when the nurses and other people start seeing their jobs maybe at risk they suddenly take a selfish interest.
"I also take expection to people sabotaging others taking part in a legal activity just becuase they don't like it, If we all did that there would be chaos."
Well if laws changed and it was legal for the government to come along and take you, or a loved one away to be executed i'm sure you'd protest and try to prevent it. Or would you think well if i protest it will lead to chaos? If it was me i'd damn well get involved to save you and your loved ones. If slavery was legalised would you support and allow it because it was legal to do so, or would you think it was a barbaric practice that needed to be stopped???
Sometimes you have to take a stand on issues that are morally wrong, because if we don't then we can't argue or moan about it when it starts to affect us directly. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
I stated that folk don't like to see the "nice" animals killed but don't care about spiders, those motherfuckers have no right to be in the bath...
I'm one of those people who carefully remove a spider from the bath so it can go on it's merry way. I will not kill something because it's in my way, or i don't like it, or even if i see it as vermin!
Personally i think the fox hunters lost the argument early on by trying to tackle the anti-hunt element on their own ground and fought a losing battle on "hunt, gas or shoot" terms. What they should have done is argue the antis on the grounds of tradition, freedom of expression and the law.
Fox hunters did start out by saying it was all about tradition but if tradition is about killing innocent animals then it's a tradition i would be glad to see the back of. Slavery and serfdom were once traditional aspects of life but would anyone want those to return? Also the hunters have never really obeyed the law and still break it now with illegal hunts. Hunt saboteurs like myself have had to break laws like tresspass to prevent a fox being torn to pieces but on the other side of the fence the hunters have always tresspassed onto peoples land in pursuit of a fox (even those who have told them not to), they have failed to control their hounds who have killed peoples pets, they have attacked and hospitalised people...well the list goes on. Oh, and when the hounds get to a certain age they are no longer needed, they cost too much to keep and if no home can be found they are killed, which shows the hunters disregard for life. I've even seen a skip full of hound bodies and it was not a pretty sight at all.
I have ridden 180mph motorbikes with loud exhaust pipes at horrendous speed down country roads in the past. If you asked me to defend my actions in any rational debate on the subject i couldnt do it. But i don't stop the country folk from doing what they like and they don't stop me from doing what i like - okay the connection and argument is a bit tenuous to say the least, but the world would be a much better place in so many areas if people learned to "live and let live" with those who do things they disagree with. There are far worse things happening in the world than fox hunting and it saddens me that people are less keen to take action to stop them than to try and sabotage a hunt.
There are some things that you cannot ignore and allow the 'live and let live' attitude to sway you. If you want to ride your motorbike at fast speeds then thats up to you and i wouldn't want to stop you. I'd be concerned for your and other road users safety but that's your choice. However, if you were going out to run over and kill people and animals then i would try to prevent you riding off on your bike.
Yes there are worse things going on in the world...though i take it that you mean it involves human lives so straight away it becomes more important than an animals life??? It doesn't stop me and many others having concern over animals welfare! And not all who live in the country support hunting either!
I have also protested against many things and you will probably find many of those who have sabotaged or protested against hunting will have probably also protested against other important, non animal related issues. And they are not a bunch of unemployed, trouble making hippies as the papers try to make out. They consist of many people, from many walks of life and many age groups. Sadly, most people who don't care about hunting don't even protest about the 'more important' issues you speak of and prefer to sit at home with the 'i'm alright' attitude, or leave it to someone else to protest for them. Recently i have protested against hospital closures and we had little support, but when the nurses and other people start seeing their jobs maybe at risk they suddenly take a selfish interest.
I also take expection to people sabotaging others taking part in a legal activity just becuase they don't like it, If we all did that there would be chaos.
Well if laws changed and it was legal for the government to come along and take you, or a loved one away to be executed i'm sure you'd protest and try to prevent it. Or would you think well if i protest it will lead to chaos? If it was me i'd damn well get involved to save you and your loved ones. If slavery was legalised would you support and allow it because it was legal to do so, or would you think it was a barbaric practice that needed to be stopped???
Sometimes you have to take a stand on issues that are morally wrong, because if we don't then we can't argue or moan about it when it starts to affect us directly. "
To me it appears that rather than taking a stance you have simply put one foot in either camp. |
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As with most things, there is a sensible halfway house.
But subjects like this tend to make people polemical and opinions expressed will generally veer into the extreme on either side of the debate.
Hence the debate will often boil down to a simple "pro" or "anti", but life just aint that simple.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"As with most things, there is a sensible halfway house.
But subjects like this tend to make people polemical and opinions expressed will generally veer into the extreme on either side of the debate.
Hence the debate will often boil down to a simple "pro" or "anti", but life just aint that simple.
"
My point exactly, just more eloquently put |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Perhaps someone could point out where I said I was a hunt supporter, I'm not
But because I see the total irony of eating meat yet taking the anti hunt stand I am totally ambivalent on the matter, any other stance simply lacks any credibility and is a little bit foolish.
Those that are content to see thousands upon thousands of live stock slaughtered each year just so they can eat meat yet stamp their feet at the notion of foxes/badgers/rabbits/rats/mice/ in fact you name the pest being culled, in what ever format, really do seem to miss the point completely.
Either every life is sacred or it's kill or be killed, there is no half way house, or am I missing something here."
Again, where is the irony in being against the hunting and killing animals in the name of sport which are not being killed for consumption? We come from apes and not some god like being, we are all part of the human race who are omnivores and eat both meat and plant. And it has been shown that plants feel pain too so where does that leave us?
The issues of killing for food and killing for 'sport' are two are completely different issues and taking a stand against hunting and killing animals so someone can get a sick, twisted kick out of it is neither foolish, nor does it lack any credibility. All your doing is bringing up farming issues when the thread is about blood sports.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
To me it appears that rather than taking a stance you have simply put one foot in either camp."
Wrong! I think i have made my position on hunting pretty clear indeed. Being as i have stated i'm against it and have been a hunt saboteur i can't see how you can possibly read anything else into what i have stated. I have tried to address your point about eating meat which has nothing whatsoever to do with the hunt issue and is a weak arguement others in the past have used to little effect. Like i say hunting and killing in the name of 'sport' is entirely differnt to killing for food and survival. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Is it just me or isnt the idea of fabswingers is to find fellow swingers, arrange a meet and shag each others brains out. If you want to discuss topics like this surely there are better sites than a swinging forum. Some of you people must have a lot of time on your hands! Have an enjoyable evening
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Assumption is often a real fucker, where did I call it sport?
Hunting is one of the less tasteful methods of culling a problem animal, and in the rural way of life foxes are a problem.
For me it's a simple as that, I don't like the manner in which it's done but I fully accept there is a need for it.
In the same way I do not like the manner that animals enter the human food chain I also accept that if we are to eat then it needs to be done.
The difference between us is I can see the irony in your stance where as you seem to be struggling with the realism that is mine.
Thats not a dig, I am 51 and have debated this on numerous occasions. I accept that killing animals in any way is cruel but also accept that more often than not needs must and whilst I find it a rather strange way to do it the hunt, like the slaughter house is simply satisfying a requirement. |
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"Is it just me or isnt the idea of fabswingers is to find fellow swingers, arrange a meet and shag each others brains out. If you want to discuss topics like this surely there are better sites than a swinging forum. Some of you people must have a lot of time on your hands! Have an enjoyable evening
x"
lol - I think you'll find that as well as enjoying shagging, most people here also have brains and a whole other life that is separate to swinging so enjoy banter and debate on a variety of topics! You have an enjoyable evening also! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Is it just me or isnt the idea of fabswingers is to find fellow swingers, arrange a meet and shag each others brains out. If you want to discuss topics like this surely there are better sites than a swinging forum. Some of you people must have a lot of time on your hands! Have an enjoyable evening
x
lol - I think you'll find that as well as enjoying shagging, most people here also have brains and a whole other life that is separate to swinging so enjoy banter and debate on a variety of topics! You have an enjoyable evening also!"
speak for yaself babes im off to rock in the corner lol |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Assumption is often a real fucker, where did I call it sport?
Hunting is one of the less tasteful methods of culling a problem animal, and in the rural way of life foxes are a problem.
For me it's a simple as that, I don't like the manner in which it's done but I fully accept there is a need for it.
In the same way I do not like the manner that animals enter the human food chain I also accept that if we are to eat then it needs to be done.
The difference between us is I can see the irony in your stance where as you seem to be struggling with the realism that is mine.
Thats not a dig, I am 51 and have debated this on numerous occasions. I accept that killing animals in any way is cruel but also accept that more often than not needs must and whilst I find it a rather strange way to do it the hunt, like the slaughter house is simply satisfying a requirement."
The title of the thread is 'Blood Sports' so thats the stance i take when reading what people have written.
I think we will have to agree to disagree on this one. I have delved into fox hunting and the question of whether they need to be culled, and not meaning to come across as arrogant or having a dig but i think i know and have experienced alot more than your usual avergae joe, who's only experience of a hunt is when it appears on a film their watching. A fox does not need to be culled and i would advise anyone to look at credible fox related information themselves to see just that. And i don't mean look at any Anti or Pro fox hunt sites!
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Is it just me or isnt the idea of fabswingers is to find fellow swingers, arrange a meet and shag each others brains out. If you want to discuss topics like this surely there are better sites than a swinging forum. Some of you people must have a lot of time on your hands! Have an enjoyable evening
x"
As always, if you don't like the title of the thread then don't read it or comment, simple as that.
Ah ok, being as it's a swinger site then obviously intellectual debate is thrown out of the window. Hmmm lets see, what shall we talk about then. How about such intellectual topics such as cock size, or what about buying a dildo! Or maybe we should just chat about mind blowing issues such as how do you tell someone you didn't like their postive verification...no? Ok what about having a whine about arranging a meet and the person doesn't turn up and you have the need to tell everyone on the forums, which is an weekly occurance!
And some people must have alot of time on their hands when they can read and comment on a thread they have no interest in. Have an enjoyable evening! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Is it just me or isnt the idea of fabswingers is to find fellow swingers, arrange a meet and shag each others brains out. If you want to discuss topics like this surely there are better sites than a swinging forum. Some of you people must have a lot of time on your hands! Have an enjoyable evening
x
As always, if you don't like the title of the thread then don't read it or comment, simple as that.
Ah ok, being as it's a swinger site then obviously intellectual debate is thrown out of the window. Hmmm lets see, what shall we talk about then. How about such intellectual topics such as cock size, or what about buying a dildo! Or maybe we should just chat about mind blowing issues such as how do you tell someone you didn't like their postive verification...no? Ok what about having a whine about arranging a meet and the person doesn't turn up and you have the need to tell everyone on the forums, which is an weekly occurance!
And some people must have alot of time on their hands when they can read and comment on a thread they have no interest in. Have an enjoyable evening! "
well said gothica xx |
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"As with most things, there is a sensible halfway house.
But subjects like this tend to make people polemical and opinions expressed will generally veer into the extreme on either side of the debate.
Hence the debate will often boil down to a simple "pro" or "anti", but life just aint that simple.
"
Gothica - "hunting and killing animals so someone can get a sick, twisted kick out of it"
Thats exactly the kind of polemical language which doesnt help either move the debate forward or find a workable solution.
I support totally your right to hold the views you do on hunting, even if i don't agree with them, but to demonise the people who hunt harms your cause rather than helps it.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I am now properly confused, apart from the OP's throw away title none of the contributers in here have seriously mentioned either blood or sports in the same sentence, let alone as being the intended subject
My only thrust here is that if you think Fox Hunting is abhorrent and decry it vociferously but happily eat meat how do you tie those two mind sets together |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
Gothica - "hunting and killing animals so someone can get a sick, twisted kick out of it"
Thats exactly the kind of polemical language which doesnt help either move the debate forward or find a workable solution.
I support totally your right to hold the views you do on hunting, even if i don't agree with them, but to demonise the people who hunt harms your cause rather than helps it.
"
To begin with there is no workable solution because as you know, there are people who like to hunt and there are those that don’t. And even when there’s laws in place certain people ignore them and continue to hunt foxes, badger bait, hare course etc. And these people do delight in the hunting and killing of animals or they wouldn’t do it and therefore to me these people are sick and twisted for taking such delight in an animals misery, pain and death, especially when it’s done in the name of ’sport’ and not for consumption.
"I am now properly confused, apart from the OP's throw away title none of the contributers in here have seriously mentioned either blood or sports in the same sentence, let alone as being the intended subject
My only thrust here is that if you think Fox Hunting is abhorrent and decry it vociferously but happily eat meat how do you tie those two mind sets together "
Well I for one have mentioned blood sports in my comments and it has been the focus of my points. However, as in all debates peoples comments start to deviate away from the original question and you have to spend time covering those while trying to get back to the main point. So you have no grounds to say people haven’t tried to debate blood sports!
As I have stated several times now, blood sports and farming methods, along with the question of whether you eat meat or not are entirely different from each other and are two vastly different points. To begin with hunting and killing (and often torturing an animal) solely because you enjoy it and classify it under ’sport’ to make it more palatable to me is wrong and totally unacceptable. As human beings are animals too does anyone think hunting and killing them for fun is acceptable? No I doubt it, so I guess we get back to the whole view point that human life is worth more than any other species!
Yes, I do eat meat, not often but I do now and again. I know I’m merely part of the food chain, i know i'm just one more animal that shares this planet with many others and I eat to live and that’s the way mother nature has evolved us. We kill and eat for survival but with the advent of farming this has made the need for the individual to hunt themselves become somewhat redundant in the western world. Hunting down and revelling in the torture and killing of a species just because you think it’s fun and having a good time, while calling it sport is not acceptable and is a completely different issue from the whole eating meat issue. I personally can’t see what’s difficult to understand there! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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actually am against it ....
but would be up for chasing toffs over fields till they so exhausted they collapse..... then watching their wee faces as we rip their.......
platinum credit cards to bits.... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Goth,
I think the difficulty you are having stems from your inability to see the need for the death of the fox. Like you I find the manner of it's dispatch distasteful however where we part company is in the matter of need and stating there is no need is with out doubt a little naive.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Goth,
I think the difficulty you are having stems from your inability to see the need for the death of the fox. Like you I find the manner of it's dispatch distasteful however where we part company is in the matter of need and stating there is no need is with out doubt a little naive.
"
Ok then, please enlighten me as to why a fox needs to be killed. You keep inferring that you know alot more than me on this subject and that i'm some kind of naive child, and even though i've been to many hunts to protest and seen what goes on for myself and have studied fox hunting in depth for a an educational course i obviously have no idea of what major threat the fox poses to mankind. So please give me a details of why a fox needs to be hunted and killed. And please don't use the following tired arguements:
1) Fox numbers are too high because and need controlling. Not true.
2) Foxes take chickens and will kill chickens without taking them for food. Yes they do if given the chance and that is no different to humans who will steal or kill, but do we kill them off with such disregard as we do the fox...no and why is that? Because mankind has the arrogance to view any other species as beneath them and are mere commodities to be used and abused as we see fit. Foxes can be prevented from getting into hen houses but which would incur a cost, but money is obviously more important than a life and it's cheaper and easier to kill.
3) Foxes take lambs. Yes a fox takes the occasional lamb because like us it's part of the food chain and just like humans they have to eat to survive. There are alot more lamb deaths from natural causes and farmer neglect than fox depredation, so there is no need to kill foxes for this reason.
I personally don't see these reasons as justification to kill a fox and if people do think an animal has to be killed because of what mother nature has built it to do then mankind has fallen very low and become a very self centred and very arrogant species. Lets not stop there...lets hunt the tiger, shark, hippo and elephant to extinction because unlike a fox they actually kill humans as well as eating the food us humans eat and supposedly own.
So just what is this urgent underlying reason that foxes need to be killed? Foxes and other animals have less and less habitat to live in due to mans love of destruction, arrogance and greed, so does any animal we encounter become an annoyance and gets labelled as vermin that has to be eliminated? Or should we start showing a lot more respect to the wildlife and landscape and stop thinking of our own selfish selves! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Assumption again, show me where I made any sort of statement with regard to knowing more than you
All I have said is that to the rural community foxes can be pests, something you confirm quite succinctly.
Because they are pests they need culling. Like you I find hunting, and it is hunting not sport, to be distasteful but understand the need for it.
If you don't think that a fox that takes chickens and lambs is a pest then so be it, but I do and I have no problem with farmers and landowners, the mainstay of the hunt, taking steps to control them. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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If 2 nobheads wana knock the shit out of each other what business is it of mine! But bullfighting etc, just plain evil! To make it fair they should make the matador go in naked with horns cellotaped to his noggin! Id watch that! |
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By *acreadCouple
over a year ago
central scotland |
Foxhunting is done for twisted pleasure and is nothing to do with the need for culling, how anyone gets pleasure from this baffles me, its up there with hare coursing,badger baiting and chasing stags with hounds, culling deer etc because of over popullation with a gun is a more humane way,
The gentry in this country seem to have the attitude How dare these peasants make laws outlawing our our bloody sports. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I think the difficulty you are having stems from your inability to see the need for the death of the fox. Like you I find the manner of it's dispatch distasteful however where we part company is in the matter of need and stating there is no need is with out doubt a little naive."
This text in itself infers you think you know more than i and that you can see the ‘real picture’, whereas I have some inability to see there's a need for a fox to be hunted. I am neither naïve or blind and I do know a fox does not need to be hunted at all.
"Assumption again, show me where I made any sort of statement with regard to knowing more than you
All I have said is that to the rural community foxes can be pests, something you confirm quite succinctly.
Because they are pests they need culling. Like you I find hunting, and it is hunting not sport, to be distasteful but understand the need for it.
If you don't think that a fox that takes chickens and lambs is a pest then so be it, but I do and I have no problem with farmers and landowners, the mainstay of the hunt, taking steps to control them."
I think this is a huge assumption on your part that the ‘rural community’ sees the fox as a pest and want it killed; In fact there are many, many people who live in rural areas who think hunting is completely wrong. Also there are many people, including farmers who have banned hunters from crossing their land because they are against hunting so this whole idea that the majority of country people supporting blood sports and hunting is just not right.
Also I stated that a fox can sometimes take a chicken or a lamb to eat, and on occasion, if a hen house is not secured a fox can possibly get in and kill the chickens without it killing for food. Killing without doing it for food is a trait shared by many animals such as chimpanzees, dolphins, killer whales and human beings, so do we class those as pests too and eliminate them? Hunters call a fox a pest and state it needs hunting because it’s a convenient and weak excuse to hide behind the fact they enjoy killing for no reason! And killing for no reason is one of the reasons you think a fox should die…double standards really. If you look back a few years fox hunters used to say it was tradition and good fun to hunt, but then when public opinion turned against them they suddenly started to use the lie that foxes are a pest and their doing us all a service by hunting them. What a load of lies and deceit.
However, I did NOT say a fox was a pest because it can take a chicken or a lamb so please don’t try to put words in my mouth. If your going to demonise a fox because it will sometimes take an easy prey to conserve it’s energy levels and give itself, and it’s cubs a better chance of survival then perhaps we should start looking long and hard at human beings who are the ones who perpetrate all the destruction and evils of this world.
Let me ask you this. If you were hungry and/or had children to feed which option would you choose. Would you take an easy pre-prepared meal that would definitely end your hunger and keep you and your children alive, or would you go off and hunt for food that may not appear for many days, or even at all and may lead to yours and your childrens deaths? I know which i would take and i know which anyone else would take and that's the easy pre-prepared meal option. The easy option means you and your children will survive, the hunting for food option means there is a chance that you and your children will die, so why the hell shouldn't the fox do the exact same thing?
Again foxes do not need culling as mother nature keeps the numbers down naturally. If a fox is hunted and killed a vixen in the surrounding territory will have a number of cubs to fill that void, or another fox will eventually come along and make that area it’s hunting place. And your wrong about farmers and landowners being the mainstay of a hunt and that comment is nothing more than an incorrect sweeping statement. Have you ever been to, or protested against a hunt in your life??? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I look at it this way.
Nature normally has its own way of dealing with "over population" and who are we do be master of all ???
We are not and never should be.
The human race has decimated this planet and will continue to do so.
We encroach into and onto land that these animals need to live . and then moan we are plagued by them and they need to be controlled.
We really do need to take a step back and see the whole picture. |
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By *ebzStarWoman
over a year ago
Notting |
"Goth,
Ok then, please enlighten me as to why a fox needs to be killed"
COS he eats all my fucking eggs and kills my chucky eggs.....mean sly bastard that he is....and have you heard them having sex - noisy fucking bastards....!!!!
AND
AND
AND
their shit fucking STINKS!!!!
the dogs roll in it - WHY????????? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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as a country child hunted meat was a very common food at dinner we had pheasant grouse venison salmon hare rabbit and various other so called "toff" meats now to risk the wrath of the good old class arguement ... i lived in a council house these were probably poached/stolen/shot but we also had chickens and a large veg plot. we were i suppose self sufficient in a way and at the time 1985 lets see who knows their history!! it was eat it or starve and many a hungry family ate at our table with hunted meat etc. group hunts i dont agree as it is pack mentality and the other point about cheap meat is true if you ever seen a battery chicken i can assure you you would never eat chicken again!!in fact if you seen how most food got to the table you would go self sufficient too! each case has its own arguement! just my own ten pence worth !! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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" we were i suppose self sufficient in a way and at the time 1985 lets see who knows their history!! it was eat it or starve each case has its own arguement! just my own ten pence worth !!
Miners strike,  "
correct hunni and hence why it was done and helped many a family to have a hot meal in them xx |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Im not a philistine I am from Kabul...So there... does that mean ur full of bull then ?? "
Oh youve heard about that gay Bull in the farmers field next to my house have to be careful taking short cuts through there you know.... |
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Blood sports, or hunting, is a very emotive issue. As a country boy, I was brought up to be a "huntin' shootin' fishin'" type of guy, and I have killed lots of animals of the "cute and fluffy" or "verminous" variety (delete as per your outlook).
However, to see "sport", in something that ends in death is very wrong, and I have never understood the need to dress up and turn it into a social event.
Pests should be eliminated efficiently and humanely, and without any undue fuss and ceremony. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I went to the Midland game and country sports fair yesterday in Shropshire and i must say it's an excellent hobby (not sport). I'm hoping to take up shooting permanently.
x |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I went to the Midland game and country sports fair yesterday in Shropshire and i must say it's an excellent hobby (not sport). I'm hoping to take up shooting permanently.
x"
Would this new 'hobby' consist of you shooting a target or clay pigeons, or live animals/birds?
And if it's live animals and birds that your going to kill, are you doing it for food, or because you find it fun to take a life? |
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By *ig badMan
over a year ago
Up North :-) |
Shoot regularly on a Sunday be it clays or what ever. Don’t see a problem with killing birds bread for the shoot though. Some people are far too holier than though wearing leather shoes and woollen jumpers and buying there processed supermarket food. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Shoot regularly on a Sunday be it clays or what ever. Don’t see a problem with killing birds bread for the shoot though. Some people are far too holier than though wearing leather shoes and woollen jumpers and buying there processed supermarket food. "
I don't have a problem with shooting clay pigeons, and if it's for food i have no problem with killing for food. But killing for mere 'enjoyment' to me is just wrong on all levels. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Shoot regularly on a Sunday be it clays or what ever. Don’t see a problem with killing birds bread for the shoot though. Some people are far too holier than though wearing leather shoes and woollen jumpers and buying there processed supermarket food.
I don't have a problem with shooting clay pigeons, and if it's for food i have no problem with killing for food. But killing for mere 'enjoyment' to me is just wrong on all levels."
Live things are better. Like my cock breathing Mmmmmm |
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By *acreadCouple
over a year ago
central scotland |
"Shoot regularly on a Sunday be it clays or what ever. Don’t see a problem with killing birds bread for the shoot though. Some people are far too holier than though wearing leather shoes and woollen jumpers and buying there processed supermarket food.Leather is a bi product of the meat industry and we all have to eat the point you seem to be missing is some ppls sadistic pleasure in killing for sport.I would suggest to these ppl if you really want some adrenallin pumping sport then why not go to Canada or Africa armed with a spear and hunt bears or lions or maybe that would just be a little bit more dangerous for you than sitting with a shotgun shooting little birds out of the sky,how masculine is that sport? "
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