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Guilty until proven innocent
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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Who else find it strange that most of these allegations comes after 20 or 30 years mostly towards celebrities where they after have proven that nothing have happened, is it to fund the #metoo campaign in most cases? |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"You don't hear of the non celebrity ones Shag. That doesn't mean they don't happen and there's no money to be had there."
That is right you dont as the most money to get is from the celebrities.
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"You don't hear of the non celebrity ones Shag. That doesn't mean they don't happen and there's no money to be had there.That is right you dont as the most money to get is from the celebrities."
No Shag. You don't hear about it as the papers don't report it.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Hang on, are you suggesting people are wrongly accusing celebrities of crimes in order to get money for a campaign they wouldn't be part of had the crimes not been committed?  |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"You don't hear of the non celebrity ones Shag. That doesn't mean they don't happen and there's no money to be had there.That is right you dont as the most money to get is from the celebrities.
No Shag. You don't hear about it as the papers don't report it.
"
That is right as well they dont do that. |
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I find it interesting that hundreds of cops investigate historic crimes where often the alleged perpetrator is dead and when I wanted one to attend a burglary that happened the same day they took a week to turn up |
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"I find it interesting that hundreds of cops investigate historic crimes where often the alleged perpetrator is dead and when I wanted one to attend a burglary that happened the same day they took a week to turn up"
Burglary = 'victimless crime' these days.
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"You don't hear of the non celebrity ones Shag. That doesn't mean they don't happen and there's no money to be had there."
Don't we? Has nobody else heard about the historic abuse in care homes, by priests and by sports coaches? It's truly an epidemic. |
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"I find it interesting that hundreds of cops investigate historic crimes where often the alleged perpetrator is dead and when I wanted one to attend a burglary that happened the same day they took a week to turn up"
I mean they technically took decades to show up in many cases of sexual abuse reports so a week is pretty good. |
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By *m3232Man
over a year ago
maidenhead |
"I find it interesting that hundreds of cops investigate historic crimes where often the alleged perpetrator is dead and when I wanted one to attend a burglary that happened the same day they took a week to turn up
Burglary = 'victimless crime' these days.
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Which is stupid they is still a victim |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"You don't hear of the non celebrity ones Shag. That doesn't mean they don't happen and there's no money to be had there.
Don't we? Has nobody else heard about the historic abuse in care homes, by priests and by sports coaches? It's truly an epidemic."
Yeah and f*cking nuns they were worst than the priests I know they ruined my sh*t Childhood, I would personally execute every one of the evil f"ckers, hope they are burning in hell now! Rant over! |
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"You don't hear of the non celebrity ones Shag. That doesn't mean they don't happen and there's no money to be had there.
Don't we? Has nobody else heard about the historic abuse in care homes, by priests and by sports coaches? It's truly an epidemic.
Yeah and f*cking nuns they were worst than the priests I know they ruined my sh*t Childhood, I would personally execute every one of the evil f"ckers, hope they are burning in hell now! Rant over!"
Totally agree and I’m not catholic or get bummed by the priest or beaten to an inch of my life by the nuns .. always thought they were a manipulating, calculating, controlling lying bunch of cunts |
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By *omaMan
over a year ago
Glasgow |
I am totally against only the accused being named in any allegation. Both the accuser and accused should either remain nameless or both named.
How many careers/lives have been ruined with false allegations?
Shit sticks . . Once named and proven innocent your life is ruined.
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You're always guilty until proven innocent. Recent events prove that.
It's when there is no 'inquiry' regarding the offence that rages me.
It's unacceptable, it's power over people, it's the world we live in unfortunately. 
Jo.Xx |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Didnt rolf harris also get cleared of the charges in 2017?
The jury failed to reach a verdict, I believe? The conviction for aaaaaaaaallllll the other offences stands though."
Yes I think so too they failed that, although he did get cleared of 3 of the charges, it is on the bbcs site. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I find it interesting that hundreds of cops investigate historic crimes where often the alleged perpetrator is dead and when I wanted one to attend a burglary that happened the same day they took a week to turn up
I mean they technically took decades to show up in many cases of sexual abuse reports so a week is pretty good."
 |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I am totally against only the accused being named in any allegation. Both the accuser and accused should either remain nameless or both named.
How many careers/lives have been ruined with false allegations?
Shit sticks . . Once named and proven innocent your life is ruined.
"
I know people may take years to pluck up courage to report something. But 20 years?! How the heck can the person defend their self against something so long ago? Even if it's bullshit and vindictive, people will only remember they were accused. |
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I think if the Jimmy Savile thing has taught us anything 20-30 years ago such accusations would have fallen on death ears. The examples, strength of others and changes in attitudes has empowered others to speak out and seek some kind of justice. And breaking this system of silence is imperative to putting a stop to this shit.
One thing I know from all the women in my life over the years is this shit is common across the board (Not just celebrities). I can't ignore it, I heard the same stories from so many women I'm close to. I don't see it because I'm a successful man, but I can't turn a blind eye because I keep hearing the same stories. It's massively important people do speak out, then the rest of us can't ignore the volume of abuse going on either.
I do get the guilty till proven innocent claim. Not so much in terms of criminal proceedings due to the burden of proof. I suspect the vast majority of guilty people get off the hook in court (I know from personal experience tgis is often the way). But more the concern that people's careers can be ended on such hearsay. I don't really have a solution to that. But I think people need to use their common sense and a critical eye. I suspect the vast majority of these accusations are real. So I would suspect in most cases there is no smoke without fire. But of course you will always have the occasion crank or malicious false accusations. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"I am totally against only the accused being named in any allegation. Both the accuser and accused should either remain nameless or both named.
How many careers/lives have been ruined with false allegations?
Shit sticks . . Once named and proven innocent your life is ruined.
"
I am also against it a sad case was with martin timell, a famous swedish celebrity that got charged but was later innocent. |
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"I think the #metoo thing was daft in a way. If they'd asked women who has *never* been touched inappropriately, the silence would be deafening. "
I get the idea of proportionality (although I think you underestimate the volume of the problem) and I think we need to be careful of senseless jerk reactions. But surely there is a problem, is there not? And therefore surely we can't deal with unless people speak out and we identify it?
I mean you lead a #menottouched counter movement if you want. But you wouldn't be fixing anything for the better, just throwing mud in the water and being harmful to all those women who have been affected. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I think the #metoo thing was daft in a way. If they'd asked women who has *never* been touched inappropriately, the silence would be deafening.
I get the idea of proportionality (although I think you underestimate the volume of the problem) and I think we need to be careful of senseless jerk reactions. But surely there is a problem, is there not? And therefore surely we can't deal with unless people speak out and we identify it?
I mean you lead a #menottouched counter movement if you want. But you wouldn't be fixing anything for the better, just throwing mud in the water and being harmful to all those women who have been affected."
And Men or don't they count? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I think the #metoo thing was daft in a way. If they'd asked women who has *never* been touched inappropriately, the silence would be deafening.
I get the idea of proportionality (although I think you underestimate the volume of the problem) and I think we need to be careful of senseless jerk reactions. But surely there is a problem, is there not? And therefore surely we can't deal with unless people speak out and we identify it?
I mean you lead a #menottouched counter movement if you want. But you wouldn't be fixing anything for the better, just throwing mud in the water and being harmful to all those women who have been affected."
I am saying it is likely that every woman has at some point in her life been touched inappropriately. How is that underestimating the problem? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I think if the Jimmy Savile thing has taught us anything 20-30 years ago such accusations would have fallen on death ears. The examples, strength of others and changes in attitudes has empowered others to speak out and seek some kind of justice. And breaking this system of silence is imperative to putting a stop to this shit.
One thing I know from all the women in my life over the years is this shit is common across the board (Not just celebrities). I can't ignore it, I heard the same stories from so many women I'm close to. I don't see it because I'm a successful man, but I can't turn a blind eye because I keep hearing the same stories. It's massively important people do speak out, then the rest of us can't ignore the volume of abuse going on either.
I do get the guilty till proven innocent claim. Not so much in terms of criminal proceedings due to the burden of proof. I suspect the vast majority of guilty people get off the hook in court (I know from personal experience tgis is often the way). But more the concern that people's careers can be ended on such hearsay. I don't really have a solution to that. But I think people need to use their common sense and a critical eye. I suspect the vast majority of these accusations are real. So I would suspect in most cases there is no smoke without fire. But of course you will always have the occasion crank or malicious false accusations. "
False allegations make up a much smaller percentage of cases than unreported assaults. It’s a shame that a few happen and when they do people cling to it as proof that women are liars and always ready to string up a man for it, in reality I don’t know a single woman ( know as in face to face ) who has not been assaulted or r*ped. Not one. We are evolving and learning more about consent and women are claiming themselves and refusing to be property or objects ( but if you consent as your kink, no judgement ) any longer. If you haven’t had to be concerned with public movements, be glad you’ve not been impacted in such a way and carry on with your own life vs knocking something that gave many many victims ( male and female) a chance to feel safe speaking publicly without shame about what happened to them. |
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"I think the #metoo thing was daft in a way. If they'd asked women who has *never* been touched inappropriately, the silence would be deafening.
I get the idea of proportionality (although I think you underestimate the volume of the problem) and I think we need to be careful of senseless jerk reactions. But surely there is a problem, is there not? And therefore surely we can't deal with unless people speak out and we identify it?
I mean you lead a #menottouched counter movement if you want. But you wouldn't be fixing anything for the better, just throwing mud in the water and being harmful to all those women who have been affected.
I am saying it is likely that every woman has at some point in her life been touched inappropriately. How is that underestimating the problem?"
I totally read that the other way, my bad. Sometimes I'm prone to getting the wrong end of the stick, that why I found the post so surprising. My apologies. |
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"I think if the Jimmy Savile thing has taught us anything 20-30 years ago such accusations would have fallen on death ears. The examples, strength of others and changes in attitudes has empowered others to speak out and seek some kind of justice. And breaking this system of silence is imperative to putting a stop to this shit.
One thing I know from all the women in my life over the years is this shit is common across the board (Not just celebrities). I can't ignore it, I heard the same stories from so many women I'm close to. I don't see it because I'm a successful man, but I can't turn a blind eye because I keep hearing the same stories. It's massively important people do speak out, then the rest of us can't ignore the volume of abuse going on either.
I do get the guilty till proven innocent claim. Not so much in terms of criminal proceedings due to the burden of proof. I suspect the vast majority of guilty people get off the hook in court (I know from personal experience tgis is often the way). But more the concern that people's careers can be ended on such hearsay. I don't really have a solution to that. But I think people need to use their common sense and a critical eye. I suspect the vast majority of these accusations are real. So I would suspect in most cases there is no smoke without fire. But of course you will always have the occasion crank or malicious false accusations.
False allegations make up a much smaller percentage of cases than unreported assaults. It’s a shame that a few happen and when they do people cling to it as proof that women are liars and always ready to string up a man for it, in reality I don’t know a single woman ( know as in face to face ) who has not been assaulted or r*ped. Not one. We are evolving and learning more about consent and women are claiming themselves and refusing to be property or objects ( but if you consent as your kink, no judgement ) any longer. If you haven’t had to be concerned with public movements, be glad you’ve not been impacted in such a way and carry on with your own life vs knocking something that gave many many victims ( male and female) a chance to feel safe speaking publicly without shame about what happened to them. "
What you said is what I'm hearing too. I was years ago totally obvious to it. I used to think that a lot of it was isolated and other things seemed just or and normalised, when in reflection it really isn't ok. But as I've got to know the women in my life I've see the same stories over and over. Granted I'm sure background has some impact on the risks. But it seems to happen in all walks of life. As much as I'd to dismiss it as unreal hysteria anyone doing the maths would realise it's really not and see how prevalent it is. And it's totally fucked up. And these offences often have a serious impacts and side affects the victims going forward. It's important to me because I have kids. I have a girl who I don't want to have to put up with this shit. And I have a little boy who I want to grow up as a good and just man who I can be proud of. We are the role models to our children. If we want a better world for a children then the buck stops with us. We must be prepared to both stand up and say something and also listen. Because the kids are watching us and they will follow our example.
Also likewise I see the currency of one fake allegation seems to hold as much value as a 100 genuine ones.
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I was on the Matthew Wright show by telephone discussing this a few years ago. We discussed a few of the scenarios like dave Lee travis who would brush his hand across a woman’s breast going passed her and the more invasive acts from JS Etc but at the end of the call he asked was it worth the millions of pounds spent on the investigation and I said yes as even if there were no convictions it was sending a message to people who had been abused that this is wrong and they are not to blame, there is help out there and go get the help they need to try to recover. It doesn’t matter the time between incident and revelation help is still available and the abuser can be taken to court if enough evidence is identified. |
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"I was on the Matthew Wright show by telephone discussing this a few years ago. We discussed a few of the scenarios like dave Lee travis who would brush his hand across a woman’s breast going passed her and the more invasive acts from JS Etc but at the end of the call he asked was it worth the millions of pounds spent on the investigation and I said yes as even if there were no convictions it was sending a message to people who had been abused that this is wrong and they are not to blame, there is help out there and go get the help they need to try to recover. It doesn’t matter the time between incident and revelation help is still available and the abuser can be taken to court if enough evidence is identified."
Not if he is/or she is dead |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I think the #metoo thing was daft in a way. If they'd asked women who has *never* been touched inappropriately, the silence would be deafening.
I get the idea of proportionality (although I think you underestimate the volume of the problem) and I think we need to be careful of senseless jerk reactions. But surely there is a problem, is there not? And therefore surely we can't deal with unless people speak out and we identify it?
I mean you lead a #menottouched counter movement if you want. But you wouldn't be fixing anything for the better, just throwing mud in the water and being harmful to all those women who have been affected.
I am saying it is likely that every woman has at some point in her life been touched inappropriately. How is that underestimating the problem?
I totally read that the other way, my bad. Sometimes I'm prone to getting the wrong end of the stick, that why I found the post so surprising. My apologies."
Hey no need to apologise, I really just thought I said it wrong. X |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I think the #metoo thing was daft in a way. If they'd asked women who has *never* been touched inappropriately, the silence would be deafening.
I get the idea of proportionality (although I think you underestimate the volume of the problem) and I think we need to be careful of senseless jerk reactions. But surely there is a problem, is there not? And therefore surely we can't deal with unless people speak out and we identify it?
I mean you lead a #menottouched counter movement if you want. But you wouldn't be fixing anything for the better, just throwing mud in the water and being harmful to all those women who have been affected.
I am saying it is likely that every woman has at some point in her life been touched inappropriately. How is that underestimating the problem?"
Because you can’t speak for every woman. |
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