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Men and Childlessness

By *icketysplits OP Woman over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

The Kathy Burke programme tonight has set me to thinking about men who might want children but can't have them, for whatever reason.

It should be possible for men to adopt, with or without a partner, and take adoption leave. I haven't met any that have, only couples where one takes the full adoption leave.

Men, has it affected your life and career planning thinking about when and how to have a child? Do you get asked when you will have children or why you haven't had any?

I've asked about men and miscarriage and abortion before so do include that experience if you want to.

It's a difficult subject so please treat each other with respect/

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I was due to be a Dad, but nature had other ideas - one miscarried, the other eptopic

I had years of 'not feeling like a woman' comments thrown at me, I dare say out of frustration and deflection? but at the time it felt like it was being pinned on me

I wasn't afforded any time to mourn or reflect or even digest what happened, I was there to pick up the pieces, make sure she was OK, make sure she functioned, put her back together again, and I did

I'd have made a great Dad, my parents fantastic Grandparents - and that's where it saddens me, that that chance didn't come my way

I go through life now not wanting kids, kinda content with the fact it never happened, but also with a sorrow that creeps up and taps me on the shoulder once in a while and allows the mind to wander about what might have been

What would they look like?

What would they be doing with their lives?

How would my life be different?

How would they have adapted to us splitting up?

All kinds of little things

It just is

I realise all that sounds awfully self indulgent

It's not meant demean or lessen the effect all this had on my ex Mrs, but I think the OP was about mens thoughts and reactions and that is what I have tried to provide in my response

Good thread Lickety x

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By *ire_bladeMan over a year ago

Manchester

I can't even imagine not having my kids. My daughter is well aware shes the best mistake I ever made

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Had partners who've suffered miscarriages or had abortions. It's definitely hurt to be part of that but that's wholly overshadowed by knowing that that pain is tiny compared to what my then partners endured. To think what might have been were it not for nature not getting in the way or the timing being wrong.

Then I met and stayed with someone for a couple of years who wasn't fussed about having children and the desire waned. I could see that it was quite instinctive, this desire to be a father.

At 42 and with a partner now who has two adult children and is the same age as me, fatherhood seems like something other people do.

And to be honest, I can't imagine being a Dad - I get that people want to but I have so much freedom that I can't even be arsed giving to a dog let alone a child.

There's a bit of me that'll always be sad about it but it is what it is and there's life to be lived and a world to explore with my lover, so it's not really a big deal at this point.

The most annoying thing is the stigma I get for not being a Dad. Like some people - male friends generally - have a weird outlook where they think they've instantly gained some universal wisdom for not wearing a condom. I once had someone tell me "you should have a kid - it'll sort you right out". His marriage fell apart a year or so after this because he couldn't keep his hands to himself. Maybe kids got him out of bed in the morning but it definitely didn't cure his emotional immaturity.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I thought I'd bump this Lickety

It seemed an interesting (if sensitive) subject x

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By *icketysplits OP Woman over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

"I was due to be a Dad, but nature had other ideas - one miscarried, the other eptopic

I had years of 'not feeling like a woman' comments thrown at me, I dare say out of frustration and deflection? but at the time it felt like it was being pinned on me

I wasn't afforded any time to mourn or reflect or even digest what happened, I was there to pick up the pieces, make sure she was OK, make sure she functioned, put her back together again, and I did

I'd have made a great Dad, my parents fantastic Grandparents - and that's where it saddens me, that that chance didn't come my way

What would they look like?

What would they be doing with their lives?

How would my life be different?

How would they have adapted to us splitting up?

All kinds of little things

It just is

I realise all that sounds awfully self indulgent

It's not meant demean or lessen the effect all this had on my ex Mrs, but I think the OP was about mens thoughts and reactions and that is what I have tried to provide in my response

Good thread Lickety x"

Thank you for sharing. It's not self-indulgent at all.

Men who have lost a pregnancy often get sidelined - sometimes they do it to themselves through feeling they HAVE to be STRONG FOR HER. Of course it's different for the woman, the hormones alone send you in a spiral, but that doesn't mean the man isn't in deep pain that can last a lifetime.

I used to group counsel bereaved parents and saw the dynamics play out and when not dealt with I would watch the relationships die too.

It's ok that you have those moments when your lost babies tap you on your shoulder and whisper about their lost potential and how great you would have been as a dad. As long as it doesn't consume you.

I'll give you a hug when we meet.

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By *icketysplits OP Woman over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

"I can't even imagine not having my kids. My daughter is well aware shes the best mistake I ever made "

Not everyone is so welcoming and happy about their 'mistakes'.

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By *icketysplits OP Woman over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

"Had partners who've suffered miscarriages or had abortions. It's definitely hurt to be part of that but that's wholly overshadowed by knowing that that pain is tiny compared to what my then partners endured. To think what might have been were it not for nature not getting in the way or the timing being wrong.

Then I met and stayed with someone for a couple of years who wasn't fussed about having children and the desire waned. I could see that it was quite instinctive, this desire to be a father.

At 42 and with a partner now who has two adult children and is the same age as me, fatherhood seems like something other people do.

And to be honest, I can't imagine being a Dad - I get that people want to but I have so much freedom that I can't even be arsed giving to a dog let alone a child.

There's a bit of me that'll always be sad about it but it is what it is and there's life to be lived and a world to explore with my lover, so it's not really a big deal at this point.

Thank you for sharing, especially about the stigma you face. I haven't come across that before. There is a special group of parents that think those of us without children would be 'sorted out' if we had them, with little regard for the pain we have endured or the sadness and anger we feel when we see parents taking scant interest or care for the gift they have.

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By *icketysplits OP Woman over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

"I thought I'd bump this Lickety

It seemed an interesting (if sensitive) subject x"

Late night pondering.

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By *yrdsisWoman over a year ago

Gleam Street

My friends had several miscarriages .. they have a 14 ywar old and a 4 year old... he was as devastated as she was through the 4 miscarriages as she was and I can only hope that I gave him as much support as I did her... but its so true that men are expected to not be bothered. He was just as devastated.. and just as hurt that it went wrong..

I've kinda lost where I was going with this, but guys.. some of us do care about how you feel. X

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By *rightonsteveMan over a year ago

Brighton - even Hove!

There was a couple in our NCT class and they lost their baby and we kept in contact for a few years but it got less and less and eventually they said they liked us but couldn’t stand the fact we had kids and they didn’t. So they stopped all contact. I didn’t realise how difficult it was for them.

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By *icketysplits OP Woman over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

"My friends had several miscarriages .. they have a 14 ywar old and a 4 year old... he was as devastated as she was through the 4 miscarriages as she was and I can only hope that I gave him as much support as I did her... but its so true that men are expected to not be bothered. He was just as devastated.. and just as hurt that it went wrong..

I've kinda lost where I was going with this, but guys.. some of us do care about how you feel. X"

Having living children after loss sometimes leads outsiders to minimise that loss too, further shutting down the conversation.

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By *yrdsisWoman over a year ago

Gleam Street

I've kinda lost where I was going with this, but guys.. some of us do care about how you feel. X

Having living children after loss sometimes leads outsiders to minimise that loss too, further shutting down the conversation."

Very true... I wish it didn't.. I know how hurt he was losing those babies... and how amazing he was when shorty arrived.. his parents of all folk were so horrendous to him... thet were great with her, but didnt get he was screaming in pain too

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By *icketysplits OP Woman over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

"There was a couple in our NCT class and they lost their baby and we kept in contact for a few years but it got less and less and eventually they said they liked us but couldn’t stand the fact we had kids and they didn’t. So they stopped all contact. I didn’t realise how difficult it was for them. "

It must have been so difficult for them to see you marking all the milestones. You don't stop knowing s/he would be x age today and should be doing y.

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By *icketysplits OP Woman over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

I've kinda lost where I was going with this, but guys.. some of us do care about how you feel. X

Having living children after loss sometimes leads outsiders to minimise that loss too, further shutting down the conversation.

A lot of people don't. When I talk about heteronormativity and toxic masculinity it is about this stuff as much as the more obvious things. Men bleed, feel and cry (even if inwardly) and we do a disservice to them and society by perpetuating the expectation for them to be strong and sweep loss under the carpet.

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By *adbury girlWoman over a year ago

Lanarkshire

I'm sure it is possible for men to adopt children but maybe they are not aware they can or maybe they don't think they would cope. There are a lot of same sex couples adopt so no reason a single man can't.

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By *yrdsisWoman over a year ago

Gleam Street

I've kinda lost where I was going with this, but guys.. some of us do care about how you feel. X

Having living children after loss sometimes leads outsiders to minimise that loss too, further shutting down the conversation.

I know! This is all I can say...I agree with it all!

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By *icketysplits OP Woman over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

"I'm sure it is possible for men to adopt children but maybe they are not aware they can or maybe they don't think they would cope. There are a lot of same sex couples adopt so no reason a single man can't.

I wonder how much the way society might view them adopting alone affects their thinking and decision?

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By *adbury girlWoman over a year ago

Lanarkshire

I wonder how much the way society might view them adopting alone affects their thinking and decision?

The desperate need for adopters would probably outweigh any discrimination I would think. I am aware of one single man that fosters nearby so don't think adoption would be much different.

Local authorities are desperate for adopters, foster carers and support carers but still do rigorous checks as I think the whole process takes about 12-18 months and can be quite invasive but necessary.

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By *icketysplits OP Woman over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

I wonder how much the way society might view them adopting alone affects their thinking and decision?

The desperate need for adopters would probably outweigh any discrimination I would think. I am aware of one single man that fosters nearby so don't think adoption would be much different.

I bet the fact that this would be seen as unusual would mean un-conscious bias leads to more stringent, potentially off-putting checks. They would want to ensure the panel has every question covered.

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By *acey_RedWoman over a year ago

Liverpool

I wonder how much the way society might view them adopting alone affects their thinking and decision?

The desperate need for adopters would probably outweigh any discrimination I would think. I am aware of one single man that fosters nearby so don't think adoption would be much different.

I watched a video on Facebook about an older man who fostered disabled and terminally ill children. He was such a wonderful, loving, caring man. Sadly there were loads of comments on the video from people saying they found it creepy. As much as the local authority might allow it, general society can be harsh and it can be hard to be brave enough to do something you know will invite a lot of judgement and awkward questions.

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By *icketysplits OP Woman over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

I wonder how much the way society might view them adopting alone affects their thinking and decision?

The desperate need for adopters would probably outweigh any discrimination I would think. I am aware of one single man that fosters nearby so don't think adoption would be much different.

There was a news report about male nannies recently. I saw similar comments on that.

Change comes slowly but there will always be those who object.

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