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Toddler who fell from ship
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By *obbytupper OP Man
over a year ago
Menston near Ilkley |
The news of the death of this poor girl is absolutely tragic.
Her Grandfather had lost his grip on the child as he held her up to a window on the eleventh deck. The family must be devastated.
However along comes a lawyer today to claim that the cruise line are at fault as the window could be opened by the public and the girl was banging on the glass as she does when her elder brother is playing ice hockey.
Excuse me but who in their right mind teaches or allows a child to think that banging hard on a panel of glass is acceptable? Not all panes of glass are reinforced! |
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By *obbytupper OP Man
over a year ago
Menston near Ilkley |
"Who in their right mind hold a child up in front of, or out of, an open window  "
The lawyer is claiming the child banging on the window caused it to open. However if she hadn't been held up she would not have been able to reach it,and being allowed to bang on the glass is surely plain stupidity. Children don't understand that glass is fragile and would grow up thinking all glass was ok to bang! |
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By *tew008Man
over a year ago
edinburgh |
"Who in their right mind hold a child up in front of, or out of, an open window
The lawyer is claiming the child banging on the window caused it to open. However if she hadn't been held up she would not have been able to reach it,and being allowed to bang on the glass is surely plain stupidity. Children don't understand that glass is fragile and would grow up thinking all glass was ok to bang!"
Well from what I read they were in a kids play area and all the other panes were there and you could bang on them. By the sounds of it the grandad didn’t realize and just a horrible accident. |
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I think the whole thing is a horrific sequence of events that taken in isolation were harmless. I can envisage holding a child up to a window, I can also envisage losing my grip on a wriggling child. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Who in their right mind hold a child up in front of, or out of, an open window
The lawyer is claiming the child banging on the window caused it to open. However if she hadn't been held up she would not have been able to reach it,and being allowed to bang on the glass is surely plain stupidity. Children don't understand that glass is fragile and would grow up thinking all glass was ok to bang!"
Wow. Yet to meet a perfect parent or grand parent. Stupid or not, the ultimate price has been paid. Show a bit of respect. All the facts aren’t out there for public judgement, and probably never will be. Can’t imagine anything more horrific for a parent to experience. |
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By *ENGUYMan
over a year ago
Hull |
"I think the whole thing is a horrific sequence of events that taken in isolation were harmless. I can envisage holding a child up to a window, I can also envisage losing my grip on a wriggling child. "
Before the lawyer got involved, it appears from witnesses at the time, that the adult was momentarily distracted and lost his hold on the child.
That scenario is what Police and authority investigations are following as is the Cruise company too. |
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By *obbytupper OP Man
over a year ago
Menston near Ilkley |
"I think the whole thing is a horrific sequence of events that taken in isolation were harmless. I can envisage holding a child up to a window, I can also envisage losing my grip on a wriggling child. "
I'm sorry but I must disagree, allowing a child to bang on glass is downright dangerous. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The news of the death of this poor girl is absolutely tragic.
Her Grandfather had lost his grip on the child as he held her up to a window on the eleventh deck. The family must be devastated.
However along comes a lawyer today to claim that the cruise line are at fault as the window could be opened by the public and the girl was banging on the glass as she does when her elder brother is playing ice hockey.
Excuse me but who in their right mind teaches or allows a child to think that banging hard on a panel of glass is acceptable? Not all panes of glass are reinforced!"
America and money. Doesn't allways make sense but can make money. |
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"I think the whole thing is a horrific sequence of events that taken in isolation were harmless. I can envisage holding a child up to a window, I can also envisage losing my grip on a wriggling child.
I'm sorry but I must disagree, allowing a child to bang on glass is downright dangerous."
I've read a couple of the news reports and they all seem to vary. Some say the window was open, some that he was dangling her, some that he sat her on the railing. The implication is that she went to bang on the window, it was open and she fell. Now it's in the hands of a lawyer we'll never know |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Don't ever judge people based on what you read in newspapers or see on TV reports. Newspapers twist the facts to sell their papers and they don't really care about the victims of tragedy. There was another recent tragedy I know has been incorrectly reported and involves faulty railings x |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Who in their right mind hold a child up in front of, or out of, an open window "
Michael Jackson... point made as he wasn't I. His right mind either and OP you do realise this is a sex site don't you? Not exactly the kind of topic to make us smile of a morning.... just saying |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I think the whole thing is a horrific sequence of events that taken in isolation were harmless. I can envisage holding a child up to a window, I can also envisage losing my grip on a wriggling child.
I'm sorry but I must disagree, allowing a child to bang on glass is downright dangerous.
I've read a couple of the news reports and they all seem to vary. Some say the window was open, some that he was dangling her, some that he sat her on the railing. The implication is that she went to bang on the window, it was open and she fell. Now it's in the hands of a lawyer we'll never know"
 |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Who in their right mind hold a child up in front of, or out of, an open window
The lawyer is claiming the child banging on the window caused it to open. However if she hadn't been held up she would not have been able to reach it,and being allowed to bang on the glass is surely plain stupidity. Children don't understand that glass is fragile and would grow up thinking all glass was ok to bang!
Wow. Yet to meet a perfect parent or grand parent. Stupid or not, the ultimate price has been paid. Show a bit of respect. All the facts aren’t out there for public judgement, and probably never will be. Can’t imagine anything more horrific for a parent to experience. "
Well said |
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It is indeed tragic, but I think peoples sympathys get stretched when it becomes a law suit.
If the company was at fault then it should be a criminal case.
I could see the basis of doing so if the window was at child level.
But this is a law suit about the lack of a sticker on a window that does not seem to be at ground level. The distasteful aspect is the chasing of money. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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This was terrible, I can't look past blaming the grandfather. To lift a child up to an open window on the 11th floor, or even to bang on the window if it was closed, was complete stupidity and inviting tragedy. |
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"I think the whole thing is a horrific sequence of events that taken in isolation were harmless. I can envisage holding a child up to a window, I can also envisage losing my grip on a wriggling child.
I'm sorry but I must disagree, allowing a child to bang on glass is downright dangerous."
Get over yourself for Christ sake. How much force can she have out on the glass? A toddler held in the arms of her grandparent.
Are you saying you as a grid adult never bang on a window...ever?
I am sure there will be s health and safety investigation into his the window fell open but I would argue that there is some responsibility on the cruise ship to ensure that security latches must be fit for purpose.
Did the glass break? Is that how she fell out? |
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By *W_RedMan
over a year ago
Manchester |
Unless you were there we may never know exactly what happened but it's a horrendous story that upsets me. It must be terrible to lose a child in any circumstance but for it to happen in such a horrible way must make it even more difficult to deal with.
My thoughts are with the family and anybody else that had to witness it as I'm sure they'll be suffering too. |
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Ok. Read a bit more about this now. If you go into a hotel and are staying on even the first floor you will find that windows won't open fully due to health and safety and the risk of people falling out of them. It would be reasonable to assume the same of windows on the 11th floor of a cruise ship.
Done reports suggest the window simply wasn't there but they couldn't tell at the time. If there was s window kidding then the cruise ship is to blame.
All children like to place their hands against the glass. It doesn't mean that she was banging on it. She could simply have learnt forward to put her hands on the glass and fell through the open space. Anyone who has ever held a squirming toddler will know they can easily throw themselves off balance in your arms.
For the OP to suggest poor parenting because they allowed her to place her hands upon some glass is ridiculous and insensitive. |
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Jesus h, a bit of empathy to the family here eh.......
The worst thing that could ever happen to a family has, the blame game is disgusting....
My heart goes out to every member of that family right now.... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Jesus h, a bit of empathy to the family here eh.......
The worst thing that could ever happen to a family has, the blame game is disgusting....
My heart goes out to every member of that family right now...."
My heart cries more for the lost child. A life ended before its begun, the chance that a child may have changed the world now lost for ever.
Just who rushed to get the lawyers involved in this sad event?
I know my first reaction was not to call any second rate advocate that can get me cash dot com when our son died.
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"The news of the death of this poor girl is absolutely tragic.
Her Grandfather had lost his grip on the child as he held her up to a window on the eleventh deck. The family must be devastated.
However along comes a lawyer today to claim that the cruise line are at fault as the window could be opened by the public and the girl was banging on the glass as she does when her elder brother is playing ice hockey.
Excuse me but who in their right mind teaches or allows a child to think that banging hard on a panel of glass is acceptable? Not all panes of glass are reinforced!"
I think that I wasn't there to witness it. Therefore I dont know any of the facts, so I'm in no position to pass judgement.
I'm in no doubt the family and grandparent especially are devasted, wracked with grief and guilt.
There but for the grace of God go I.......
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By *ugby 123Couple
over a year ago
Forum Mod O o O oo |
I would be devastated if I were the Grandparent, but to be honest, I am sure lots of Grandparents and Parents have picked a child up to look through a window before
I know they are American but the lawyers being involved already is leaving a nasty taste in my mouth rather than showing a toddler a view through a window |
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"Jesus h, a bit of empathy to the family here eh.......
The worst thing that could ever happen to a family has, the blame game is disgusting....
My heart goes out to every member of that family right now....
My heart cries more for the lost child. A life ended before its begun, the chance that a child may have changed the world now lost for ever.
Just who rushed to get the lawyers involved in this sad event?
I know my first reaction was not to call any second rate advocate that can get me cash dot com when our son died.
"
As they are subject to a police investigation where murder had not been ruled out I'd imagine getting a lawyer was standard procedure. |
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"A kid has died and a family are grieving.
Compassion and empathy hey."
Exactly this !!!!who gives a shit about how , why , what if ? Get real and place yourself. In the families shoes . It’s something they will never get over |
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"Jesus h, a bit of empathy to the family here eh.......
The worst thing that could ever happen to a family has, the blame game is disgusting....
My heart goes out to every member of that family right now....
My heart cries more for the lost child. A life ended before its begun, the chance that a child may have changed the world now lost for ever.
Just who rushed to get the lawyers involved in this sad event?
I know my first reaction was not to call any second rate advocate that can get me cash dot com when our son died.
"
Sorry for your loss, I couldn't even imagine what you went through....
This "where's there's blame there's a claim" culture has taken over this country...lawyers jump like fleas on a cat.... |
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Impressive how many people here have the inside knowledge to know whether or not suing is a correct response to what happens.
Or maybe it's impossible to know for sure and we should just feel sympathy for the family rather than judging them without knowing all the facts.
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By *ugby 123Couple
over a year ago
Forum Mod O o O oo |
"Impressive how many people here have the inside knowledge to know whether or not suing is a correct response to what happens.
"
You don't have to have insider knowledge to know what leaves a nasty taste in your mouth or know that money isn't the first thing you would think of after a tragedy, some people don't think money is the be all and end all |
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"Impressive how many people here have the inside knowledge to know whether or not suing is a correct response to what happens.
You don't have to have insider knowledge to know what leaves a nasty taste in your mouth or know that money isn't the first thing you would think of after a tragedy, some people don't think money is the be all and end all"
As I said, the reports I've read say that there is or was police investigation underway that hasn't ruled out murder. Are you saying you wouldn't get a lawyer in that instance? |
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By *ugby 123Couple
over a year ago
Forum Mod O o O oo |
"Impressive how many people here have the inside knowledge to know whether or not suing is a correct response to what happens.
You don't have to have insider knowledge to know what leaves a nasty taste in your mouth or know that money isn't the first thing you would think of after a tragedy, some people don't think money is the be all and end all
As I said, the reports I've read say that there is or was police investigation underway that hasn't ruled out murder. Are you saying you wouldn't get a lawyer in that instance?"
No, I think it would be the last thing on my mind. Any trauma like this I would expect police to investigate, including investigating the parents/ Grandparents, I think that is what they do.
I was more talking about the reports of their lawyers already talking about blame and how it is the ships fault before any investigation has been concluded yet. Reeks of get the lawyers in for compensation
Disclaimer...I don't know if this is the case, just my opinion of what has been reported |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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The way I see it is it was a terrible thing and be a lack of judgement or a freak accident the man must be devastated. He had to look those parents in the eye to tell them that will stay with that bloke for the rest of his life. Any amount of money or convoluted facts in the media pale into insignificance. |
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"Impressive how many people here have the inside knowledge to know whether or not suing is a correct response to what happens.
You don't have to have insider knowledge to know what leaves a nasty taste in your mouth or know that money isn't the first thing you would think of after a tragedy, some people don't think money is the be all and end all
As I said, the reports I've read say that there is or was police investigation underway that hasn't ruled out murder. Are you saying you wouldn't get a lawyer in that instance?
No, I think it would be the last thing on my mind. Any trauma like this I would expect police to investigate, including investigating the parents/ Grandparents, I think that is what they do.
I was more talking about the reports of their lawyers already talking about blame and how it is the ships fault before any investigation has been concluded yet. Reeks of get the lawyers in for compensation
Disclaimer...I don't know if this is the case, just my opinion of what has been reported"
You wouldn't get a lawyer if you were accused of murder? |
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By *ugby 123Couple
over a year ago
Forum Mod O o O oo |
"Impressive how many people here have the inside knowledge to know whether or not suing is a correct response to what happens.
You don't have to have insider knowledge to know what leaves a nasty taste in your mouth or know that money isn't the first thing you would think of after a tragedy, some people don't think money is the be all and end all
As I said, the reports I've read say that there is or was police investigation underway that hasn't ruled out murder. Are you saying you wouldn't get a lawyer in that instance?
No, I think it would be the last thing on my mind. Any trauma like this I would expect police to investigate, including investigating the parents/ Grandparents, I think that is what they do.
I was more talking about the reports of their lawyers already talking about blame and how it is the ships fault before any investigation has been concluded yet. Reeks of get the lawyers in for compensation
Disclaimer...I don't know if this is the case, just my opinion of what has been reported
You wouldn't get a lawyer if you were accused of murder?"
They havn't been accused, there is an investigation.
They have a lawyer at the moment who has said " he will do everything he can to hold the cruise line "accountable for what appears to me to be negligence."
He is not defending them from a murder charge |
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By *m3232Man
over a year ago
maidenhead |
The trouble is now days there’s so much bs that no one knows the true. Money and lawyers go hand in hand.
Take example of the stupid woman on her phone getting run over and still winning her case. The judge should have been sacked. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The trouble is now days there’s so much bs that no one knows the true. Money and lawyers go hand in hand.
Take example of the stupid woman on her phone getting run over and still winning her case. The judge should have been sacked. "
Was that the woman who got run over by a cyclist? That was terrible that he had to pay her compensation! |
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"Impressive how many people here have the inside knowledge to know whether or not suing is a correct response to what happens.
You don't have to have insider knowledge to know what leaves a nasty taste in your mouth or know that money isn't the first thing you would think of after a tragedy, some people don't think money is the be all and end all
As I said, the reports I've read say that there is or was police investigation underway that hasn't ruled out murder. Are you saying you wouldn't get a lawyer in that instance?
No, I think it would be the last thing on my mind. Any trauma like this I would expect police to investigate, including investigating the parents/ Grandparents, I think that is what they do.
I was more talking about the reports of their lawyers already talking about blame and how it is the ships fault before any investigation has been concluded yet. Reeks of get the lawyers in for compensation
Disclaimer...I don't know if this is the case, just my opinion of what has been reported
You wouldn't get a lawyer if you were accused of murder?"
Of course you would.
But the lawyer is chasing money in the media, not defending their client in a court of law.
I'm sure if no lawyer was looking to sue, you would not have the same reactions as you have seen in here.
The law suit makes it look like someone is trying to financially gain from this tragedy.
It maybe the lawyer has steered this for their own ends rather than the clients. |
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"Impressive how many people here have the inside knowledge to know whether or not suing is a correct response to what happens.
You don't have to have insider knowledge to know what leaves a nasty taste in your mouth or know that money isn't the first thing you would think of after a tragedy, some people don't think money is the be all and end all
As I said, the reports I've read say that there is or was police investigation underway that hasn't ruled out murder. Are you saying you wouldn't get a lawyer in that instance?
No, I think it would be the last thing on my mind. Any trauma like this I would expect police to investigate, including investigating the parents/ Grandparents, I think that is what they do.
I was more talking about the reports of their lawyers already talking about blame and how it is the ships fault before any investigation has been concluded yet. Reeks of get the lawyers in for compensation
Disclaimer...I don't know if this is the case, just my opinion of what has been reported
You wouldn't get a lawyer if you were accused of murder?
They havn't been accused, there is an investigation.
They have a lawyer at the moment who has said " he will do everything he can to hold the cruise line "accountable for what appears to me to be negligence."
He is not defending them from a murder charge"
Is being investigated for murder much different from being accused? I'm pretty sure either way is want a lawyer.
Just because that's what the lawyer has said it doesn't mean that's what the family appointed them for.
Although having said that if there was a health and safety failing on the boat that resulted in the death or someone I loved I am pretty sure if want answers as well. Not money perhaps although that's inevitable in any case like this.
I think calling the family out for their lawyer saying the cruise company were to blame and insinuating they are uncaring is unnecessary |
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By *ugby 123Couple
over a year ago
Forum Mod O o O oo |
"Impressive how many people here have the inside knowledge to know whether or not suing is a correct response to what happens.
You don't have to have insider knowledge to know what leaves a nasty taste in your mouth or know that money isn't the first thing you would think of after a tragedy, some people don't think money is the be all and end all
As I said, the reports I've read say that there is or was police investigation underway that hasn't ruled out murder. Are you saying you wouldn't get a lawyer in that instance?
No, I think it would be the last thing on my mind. Any trauma like this I would expect police to investigate, including investigating the parents/ Grandparents, I think that is what they do.
I was more talking about the reports of their lawyers already talking about blame and how it is the ships fault before any investigation has been concluded yet. Reeks of get the lawyers in for compensation
Disclaimer...I don't know if this is the case, just my opinion of what has been reported
You wouldn't get a lawyer if you were accused of murder?
Of course you would.
But the lawyer is chasing money in the media, not defending their client in a court of law.
I'm sure if no lawyer was looking to sue, you would not have the same reactions as you have seen in here.
The law suit makes it look like someone is trying to financially gain from this tragedy.
It maybe the lawyer has steered this for their own ends rather than the clients. "
Although I suppose if it was like your last sentence, the parents could tell him to stop if they didn't want him to do it |
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By *ugby 123Couple
over a year ago
Forum Mod O o O oo |
"That is a hell of a twist on words there which is definitely unnecessary and on that note, I will leave it there
It was a general comment but take it personally if you choose. "
As you quoting me about what the lawyer said, I think it was safe to assume it was me you were answering and talking to.
If it was a general comment, again that is a twist on peoples words as not one person on the thread suggested the parents or Grandparents were uncaring. In fact most if not all said how traumatised they must be
It doesn't help a debate when words are twisted to suit
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"That is a hell of a twist on words there which is definitely unnecessary and on that note, I will leave it there
It was a general comment but take it personally if you choose.
As you quoting me about what the lawyer said, I think it was safe to assume it was me you were answering and talking to.
If it was a general comment, again that is a twist on peoples words as not one person on the thread suggested the parents or Grandparents were uncaring. In fact most if not all said how traumatised they must be
It doesn't help a debate when words are twisted to suit
"
Ok |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Glass on a ship has to be tough given that it is in all weathers, I don't know an adult who could smash tough glass by banging on it never mind an 18 month old child."
I wondered that too, especially if it was 11 stories up. |
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By *obbytupper OP Man
over a year ago
Menston near Ilkley |
"Glass on a ship has to be tough given that it is in all weathers, I don't know an adult who could smash tough glass by banging on it never mind an 18 month old child."
Rutgers you are again missing the point I am trying to make:- if you let a child bang against a land of glass which is toughened the child will grow up to think it is safe to bang on glass, it isn't! Not all glass is toughened and banging against it it dangerous. |
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By *ugby 123Couple
over a year ago
Forum Mod O o O oo |
Yes you are right, it is probably best not to let them do it at all...however, any glass that a child could reach on their own in a normal environment would normally be toughened anyway I would imagine.
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By *obbytupper OP Man
over a year ago
Menston near Ilkley |
"Yes you are right, it is probably best not to let them do it at all...however, any glass that a child could reach on their own in a normal environment would normally be toughened anyway I would imagine.
"
Yes and as you quite rightly stated in all area's on a ship but not all glass is the same so better to teach children not to bang on it. |
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