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Intersectionality
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"How do you handle this without it becoming a reductive act of top trumping protected characteristics. And what about those minorities not covered in traditional protected characteristics?"
Can you repeat the question? Preferably in English  |
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By *stella OP Woman
over a year ago
London |
"I think this is a bit heavy  "
Someone might pick it up. It may throw out some interesting insights over time. There’s some in the forum with opinions on this that may enjoy. I’m genuinely open to hearing - although would prefer it to not solely deteriorate into ‘the grouping is the issue’ one level debate - what do you do when the groupings are there in law already? |
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By *umblefunMan
over a year ago
London/ South West (Devon, Somerset). |
"How do you handle this without it becoming a reductive act of top trumping protected characteristics. And what about those minorities not covered in traditional protected characteristics?"
If we were all polite and treated others with respect intersectionality issues wouldn’t matter cos’ whatever your protected characteristic we would be polite about it! ........Now anyone up for a fuck ?? |
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By *ucy LewdWoman
over a year ago
North Oxfordshire |
I'm hesitant to use the word intersectional in my feminism since it was coined by Kimberlé Crenshaw to specifically describe the intersection of oppression due to being black and oppression due to being female.
In that particular respect I try to raise up and champion black voices when relevant to the discussion and points being made.
Other than that, I try to critically think about how different forms of oppression interact and base my world view around the critical thinking that I've done. I try to practice kindness as far as possible, while not tolerating bullshit oppression in my own life. |
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By *stella OP Woman
over a year ago
London |
"How do you handle this without it becoming a reductive act of top trumping protected characteristics. And what about those minorities not covered in traditional protected characteristics?
If we were all polite and treated others with respect intersectionality issues wouldn’t matter cos’ whatever your protected characteristic we would be polite about it! ........Now anyone up for a fuck ?? "
Agreed. Politeness should be a basic expectation from all.
It’s not as simple as politeness though. Disability for example (I’m rooted in the social model of disability), it’s all very well to be polite but when the norms are the very thing that discriminate and cause disablement of those with an impairment, being polite is not very useful. |
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My power lies in the interpersonal, which I outlined above. Understanding intersectionality as the related (dis)advantages people have and how they function together, I struggle to imagine blunt slow moving tools like the legal system adequately managing such a complex, fluid set of problems. I do fear that the reactionary voices will rise further, partly because of current cultural shifts, but also because as a set of issues they're incredibly hard. Society handles complex social issues badly. |
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By *stella OP Woman
over a year ago
London |
"I'm hesitant to use the word intersectional in my feminism since it was coined by Kimberlé Crenshaw to specifically describe the intersection of oppression due to being black and oppression due to being female.
In that particular respect I try to raise up and champion black voices when relevant to the discussion and points being made.
Other than that, I try to critically think about how different forms of oppression interact and base my world view around the critical thinking that I've done. I try to practice kindness as far as possible, while not tolerating bullshit oppression in my own life."
A good point. I was actually starting the thread from a place of disability thinking - it’s relevant to work I’m doing - and personal thoughts on mental health too. Is there a phrase (for ease) you’d use to point towards the overlap/push and pull etc of different groups as easily as intersectionality? I think terms can start in one place and be fairly adopted in others - such as neurodiversity from autism has extended its reach, trauma informed care is not just related to domestic violence where it originated, etc.
(And for you Meli, the claiming of pegging for female to female strap on play!) |
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By *umblefunMan
over a year ago
London/ South West (Devon, Somerset). |
"I'm a Northern monkey not a southern fairy..... So I'm better with a wrench in my hand than I am a pen.
I partially understand  "
As a “Southern fairy” rather than a northern spanner (joke... couldn’t resist it, especially as i’ve Just posted that we should all be nice to each other!) I think I understand...we should be polite but shouldn’t be afraid to challenge social norms.....surely that’s evolution? |
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In relation to disability I suppose it raises further questions. Definition, identity. I suppose this intersects (as it were) with other axes of privilege. Who defines, and why? Who might lose out? How do we ensure justice and fairness, whatever that might look like, against some sort of standard?
I'm not helping I'm sure. Worth what you paid for it  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Erm, I'm not sure I really understand so I'm going in with baby basics.
Understand that yes, some people do fit right into stereotypes, regardless of what we may want to believe.
We must also understand that not everyone does, and that everyone is individual with their own needs/beliefs/morals and code of conduct exclusive to who they are and how they've been shaped.
I probably got that totally wrong but I tried 
P |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Use of empathy goes along way, ie how do I think that person will feel, when I say/do whatever it is I’m going to say or do.
Then try to say or do in a different way maybe.
The nine protected characteristics stem from the equality act 2010 hence their legality, but because something is illegal does not always mean it has to offend.
Ideally just treat everyone fairly and don’t purposefully be awkward or rude. |
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By *stella OP Woman
over a year ago
London |
"Use of empathy goes along way, ie how do I think that person will feel, when I say/do whatever it is I’m going to say or do.
Then try to say or do in a different way maybe.
The nine protected characteristics stem from the equality act 2010 hence their legality, but because something is illegal does not always mean it has to offend.
Ideally just treat everyone fairly and don’t purposefully be awkward or rude."
Can you clarify what illegal things that shouldn’t offend that you’re referring to? (just trying to understand) |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Use of empathy goes along way, ie how do I think that person will feel, when I say/do whatever it is I’m going to say or do.
Then try to say or do in a different way maybe.
The nine protected characteristics stem from the equality act 2010 hence their legality, but because something is illegal does not always mean it has to offend.
Ideally just treat everyone fairly and don’t purposefully be awkward or rude.
Can you clarify what illegal things that shouldn’t offend that you’re referring to? (just trying to understand)"
Sorry, probably didn’t explain clearly enough. The nine protected characteristics are protected by law, but not everybody will be offended by people using terms that are classed as being used under them, for instance racist terms may offend some, but not others. If that kinda makes better sense? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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It's an interesting topic, even though it does rely on concepts rather than quantified proof.
I'm interested to know how in what terms you're discussing it or whether you're talking about the concept as a whole.
Tea
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It's an interesting topic, even though it does rely on concepts rather than quantified proof.
I'm interested to know how in what terms you're discussing it or whether you're talking about the concept as a whole.
Tea
"
Also, what are the traditional protected characteristics and by connection; the non traditionally protected ones? |
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By *stella OP Woman
over a year ago
London |
"Use of empathy goes along way, ie how do I think that person will feel, when I say/do whatever it is I’m going to say or do.
Then try to say or do in a different way maybe.
The nine protected characteristics stem from the equality act 2010 hence their legality, but because something is illegal does not always mean it has to offend.
Ideally just treat everyone fairly and don’t purposefully be awkward or rude.
Can you clarify what illegal things that shouldn’t offend that you’re referring to? (just trying to understand)
Sorry, probably didn’t explain clearly enough. The nine protected characteristics are protected by law, but not everybody will be offended by people using terms that are classed as being used under them, for instance racist terms may offend some, but not others. If that kinda makes better sense?"
Okay, thanks  |
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And some people just look on the bright side, not fighting other peoples' battles, looking on positives and not negatives. I have never read as much bull in my life..
Be happy.. David Lammy would have an opinion on this .. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Use of empathy goes along way, ie how do I think that person will feel, when I say/do whatever it is I’m going to say or do.
Then try to say or do in a different way maybe.
The nine protected characteristics stem from the equality act 2010 hence their legality, but because something is illegal does not always mean it has to offend.
Ideally just treat everyone fairly and don’t purposefully be awkward or rude."
It would be interesting to compare what characteristics are protected with regards to individual countries.
Off now to see if the UK ones are the same as Ireland, or if we have more/less. |
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By *stella OP Woman
over a year ago
London |
"It's an interesting topic, even though it does rely on concepts rather than quantified proof.
I'm interested to know how in what terms you're discussing it or whether you're talking about the concept as a whole.
Tea
"
Musing on the whole really. No specific agenda. Just been working on a disability piece for work/and thinking how this clashes in practice sometimes - in helping people navigate in real terms how to manage and support others. Kindness and least harm are the basic tenants, but some actual issues will impact one group positively and others negatively - need to think about this more. Sorry it’s hard to get specific without revealing things I’m not comfortable to do. Will try and work out how to expand the specifics more broadly (now there’s a contradiction!) - meanwhile musing the whole idea.  |
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By *ucy LewdWoman
over a year ago
North Oxfordshire |
"And some people just look on the bright side, not fighting other peoples' battles, looking on positives and not negatives. I have never read as much bull in my life..
Be happy.. David Lammy would have an opinion on this .."
Wondering what you think is bull specifically?
How do you know people aren’t talking about fighting their own battles? |
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"And some people just look on the bright side, not fighting other peoples' battles, looking on positives and not negatives. I have never read as much bull in my life..
Be happy.. David Lammy would have an opinion on this ..
Wondering what you think is bull specifically?
How do you know people aren’t talking about fighting their own battles?"
And helping people with disabilities get equal treatment under the law. Such bull. So awful.  |
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By *stella OP Woman
over a year ago
London |
"It's an interesting topic, even though it does rely on concepts rather than quantified proof.
I'm interested to know how in what terms you're discussing it or whether you're talking about the concept as a whole.
Tea
Also, what are the traditional protected characteristics and by connection; the non traditionally protected ones? "
The nine from the Eq Act 2010 are:
age
disability
gender reassignment
marriage and civil partnership
pregnancy and maternity
race
religion or belief
sex
sexual orientation
For example; sex is defined as man or woman which means those who are intersex aren’t actually covered by law (in Jersey the law was amended to include intersex but only because one of the people working on the legislation had a relative who was intersex).
Then I guess other groups that can face discrimination are ex-offenders (who have served their time etc) - I won’t open a debate on offenders per se.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"And some people just look on the bright side, not fighting other peoples' battles, looking on positives and not negatives. I have never read as much bull in my life..
Be happy.. David Lammy would have an opinion on this .."
He probably would but then he’s a good bloke. He’d know something about it too, I bet you. |
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By *stella OP Woman
over a year ago
London |
"And some people just look on the bright side, not fighting other peoples' battles, looking on positives and not negatives. I have never read as much bull in my life..
Be happy.. David Lammy would have an opinion on this .."
I do belong to some of the protected groups. Sorry to disappoint. |
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By *stella OP Woman
over a year ago
London |
"Use of empathy goes along way, ie how do I think that person will feel, when I say/do whatever it is I’m going to say or do.
Then try to say or do in a different way maybe.
The nine protected characteristics stem from the equality act 2010 hence their legality, but because something is illegal does not always mean it has to offend.
Ideally just treat everyone fairly and don’t purposefully be awkward or rude.
It would be interesting to compare what characteristics are protected with regards to individual countries.
Off now to see if the UK ones are the same as Ireland, or if we have more/less. "
It’s fascinating - and there can be differences indeed! |
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By *ucy LewdWoman
over a year ago
North Oxfordshire |
"There are many groups who just do not want to be saved..
You are finding victims that don't exist.
Enough white saviours "
What about people who do want to do things like introduce new protective legislation to protect themselves and so forth? |
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By *stella OP Woman
over a year ago
London |
"There are many groups who just do not want to be saved..
You are finding victims that don't exist.
Enough white saviours "
I’m not actually talking solely about race, as stated I was starting from disability.
It’s fun that you’re speaking for everyone though |
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Then I guess other groups that can face discrimination are ex-offenders (who have served their time etc) - I won’t open a debate on offenders per se.
"
Why not.. I am sure there will be a pecking order depending on their crime. Please discuss... |
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By *stella OP Woman
over a year ago
London |
"
Then I guess other groups that can face discrimination are ex-offenders (who have served their time etc) - I won’t open a debate on offenders per se.
Why not.. I am sure there will be a pecking order depending on their crime. Please discuss..."
Great idea for your own thread Tom. |
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"How do you handle this without it becoming a reductive act of top trumping protected characteristics. And what about those minorities not covered in traditional protected characteristics?"
People is people, innit?
Just treat humans like humans, shit be done with.
 |
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"How do you handle this without it becoming a reductive act of top trumping protected characteristics. And what about those minorities not covered in traditional protected characteristics?
People is people, innit?
Just treat humans like humans, shit be done with.
"
This |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Use of empathy goes along way, ie how do I think that person will feel, when I say/do whatever it is I’m going to say or do.
Then try to say or do in a different way maybe.
The nine protected characteristics stem from the equality act 2010 hence their legality, but because something is illegal does not always mean it has to offend.
Ideally just treat everyone fairly and don’t purposefully be awkward or rude.
It would be interesting to compare what characteristics are protected with regards to individual countries.
Off now to see if the UK ones are the same as Ireland, or if we have more/less.
It’s fascinating - and there can be differences indeed!"
Ours are are very similar, as expected:
Gender
Civil status
Family status
Sexual orientation
Religion
Age
Disability
Race (includes race, colour, nationality or ethnic or national origins)
Membership of the travelling community.
|
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By *ucy LewdWoman
over a year ago
North Oxfordshire |
"How do you handle this without it becoming a reductive act of top trumping protected characteristics. And what about those minorities not covered in traditional protected characteristics?
People is people, innit?
Just treat humans like humans, shit be done with.
"
How should we address the fact that some people treat others as less of a human? |
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"
How should we address the fact that some people treat others as less of a human?"
Easy.. Don't assume they want your help and fight your own battles..
And it goes back to my earlier point. Ex cons are treated differently depending on their crime |
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By *stella OP Woman
over a year ago
London |
"How do you handle this without it becoming a reductive act of top trumping protected characteristics. And what about those minorities not covered in traditional protected characteristics?
People is people, innit?
Just treat humans like humans, shit be done with.
"
Absolutely. But I wonder what would happen if an able bodied person lived in a world well-adapted to those in wheelchairs. Lower ceilings, doorways, etc and the able bodied people startedto get sore backs from stopping, and injuries from hitting their heads...sometimes there’s some social arrangements that are the issue. That’s an extremely simplistic example but my point is what to do when the differences clash? When treating everyone as human in practice isn’t as easy as it is to write?
I don’t disagree with you at all. But I do think it’s a dismissive statement that doesn’t resolve some of the real issues. |
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By *stella OP Woman
over a year ago
London |
"Use of empathy goes along way, ie how do I think that person will feel, when I say/do whatever it is I’m going to say or do.
Then try to say or do in a different way maybe.
The nine protected characteristics stem from the equality act 2010 hence their legality, but because something is illegal does not always mean it has to offend.
Ideally just treat everyone fairly and don’t purposefully be awkward or rude.
It would be interesting to compare what characteristics are protected with regards to individual countries.
Off now to see if the UK ones are the same as Ireland, or if we have more/less.
It’s fascinating - and there can be differences indeed!
Ours are are very similar, as expected:
Gender
Civil status
Family status
Sexual orientation
Religion
Age
Disability
Race (includes race, colour, nationality or ethnic or national origins)
Membership of the travelling community.
"
Gender rather than sex is interesting. |
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"
Absolutely. But I wonder what would happen if an able bodied person lived in a world well-adapted to those in wheelchairs. Lower ceilings, doorways, etc and the able bodied people startedto get sore backs from stopping, and injuries from hitting their heads...sometimes there’s some social arrangements that are the issue. That’s an extremely simplistic example but my point is what to do when the differences clash? When treating everyone as human in practice isn’t as easy as it is to write?
"
You have made a good point |
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"How do you handle this without it becoming a reductive act of top trumping protected characteristics. And what about those minorities not covered in traditional protected characteristics?
People is people, innit?
Just treat humans like humans, shit be done with.
How should we address the fact that some people treat others as less of a human?"
Well, that's an interesting question.
We can either..
Bitch-slap some sense into them..
or..
try to understand where that behaviour comes from, and what drives it, is it from their peers, family, education, religious teaching...etc, and then try to re-educate them.
I'd prefer the second option, but unfortunately, we all know there are people who just don't want to be educated, so that brings us back to option one. |
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By *stella OP Woman
over a year ago
London |
"
How should we address the fact that some people treat others as less of a human?
Easy.. Don't assume they want your help and fight your own battles..
And it goes back to my earlier point. Ex cons are treated differently depending on their crime"
Ex-offenders aren’t always. You don’t have to disclose once finished your time and then only for DBS related situations.
Those that are currently offender managed are a different situation, you can be offender managed and past probation. |
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By *stella OP Woman
over a year ago
London |
"
Absolutely. But I wonder what would happen if an able bodied person lived in a world well-adapted to those in wheelchairs. Lower ceilings, doorways, etc and the able bodied people startedto get sore backs from stopping, and injuries from hitting their heads...sometimes there’s some social arrangements that are the issue. That’s an extremely simplistic example but my point is what to do when the differences clash? When treating everyone as human in practice isn’t as easy as it is to write?
You have made a good point"
I have to cite that it’s a parable written by Vic Finkelstein. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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As easy as it is to say just be nice to each other and there is no need for an intersectional mind unfortunately we as people all possess some sort of bias or discrimination against some aspects of an individual more deeprooted on the subconcious |
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By *stella OP Woman
over a year ago
London |
"OP mentioned top trumping.
Ex cons are a disadvantaged group ..
Are their crimes top trumped ?"
Legally they’re not a protected characteristic.
Their crimes are not relevant to the point I’m discussing, but as I said a great topic for you to have your own thread discuss, Tom. |
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"How do you handle this without it becoming a reductive act of top trumping protected characteristics. And what about those minorities not covered in traditional protected characteristics?"
I ignore it until someone complains to my face that I'm not taking account of it. Then I decide if it's a reasonable complaint.
If they say nothing and just think I'm a dick for not checking my privilege, that's just fine. |
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"How do you handle this without it becoming a reductive act of top trumping protected characteristics. And what about those minorities not covered in traditional protected characteristics?
People is people, innit?
Just treat humans like humans, shit be done with.
Absolutely. But I wonder what would happen if an able bodied person lived in a world well-adapted to those in wheelchairs. Lower ceilings, doorways, etc and the able bodied people startedto get sore backs from stopping, and injuries from hitting their heads...sometimes there’s some social arrangements that are the issue. That’s an extremely simplistic example but my point is what to do when the differences clash? When treating everyone as human in practice isn’t as easy as it is to write?
I don’t disagree with you at all. But I do think it’s a dismissive statement that doesn’t resolve some of the real issues. "
True, it is a very "rose-tinted spectacles" view, and one that I cant see happening in my lifetime at all....but there's no harm in trying to, bit by bit, move towards it.
Human nature being what it is, I cant ever see us all living together in harmony, but maybe there will be a lot less dis-harmony.
Education is the answer, get them young, and point them in the right direction. |
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"OP mentioned top trumping.
Ex cons are a disadvantaged group ..
Are their crimes top trumped ?
Legally they’re not a protected characteristic.
Their crimes are not relevant to the point I’m discussing, but as I said a great topic for you to have your own thread discuss, Tom. "
Well interesting that you totally own the thread.. I thought threads were for sharing. If you want to own a thread then make a statement. If you want to share a thread then ask a question. My point is very relevant as it was asked how different countries protect different characteristics.
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By *ucy LewdWoman
over a year ago
North Oxfordshire |
"
How should we address the fact that some people treat others as less of a human?
Easy.. Don't assume they want your help and fight your own battles..
And it goes back to my earlier point. Ex cons are treated differently depending on their crime"
Firstly - what if you are a member of a group that needs help? Should you not help yourself? What is the group is actively asking for help from outside?
Secondly - the reason that offenders are treated differently is because they chose to put themselves in a situation where they offended. That is not like, for instance, being gay or being female. Those are things that you don't choose. |
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By *stella OP Woman
over a year ago
London |
"OP mentioned top trumping.
Ex cons are a disadvantaged group ..
Are their crimes top trumped ?
Legally they’re not a protected characteristic.
Their crimes are not relevant to the point I’m discussing, but as I said a great topic for you to have your own thread discuss, Tom.
Well interesting that you totally own the thread.. I thought threads were for sharing. If you want to own a thread then make a statement. If you want to share a thread then ask a question. My point is very relevant as it was asked how different countries protect different characteristics.
"
Offenders are not a protected characteristic, so you’re not making much sense. |
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By *stella OP Woman
over a year ago
London |
"OP mentioned top trumping.
Ex cons are a disadvantaged group ..
Are their crimes top trumped ?
Legally they’re not a protected characteristic.
Their crimes are not relevant to the point I’m discussing, but as I said a great topic for you to have your own thread discuss, Tom.
Well interesting that you totally own the thread.. I thought threads were for sharing. If you want to own a thread then make a statement. If you want to share a thread then ask a question. My point is very relevant as it was asked how different countries protect different characteristics.
"
What’s your question Tom? I don’t think I actually understand. |
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By *stella OP Woman
over a year ago
London |
"
Offenders are not a protected characteristic, so you’re not making much sense.
Please re-read, misunderstand again and keep repeating yourself.. don't let your hubris stop you "
Well if you can’t clarify, I shan’t worry further. |
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By *stella OP Woman
over a year ago
London |
"How do you handle this without it becoming a reductive act of top trumping protected characteristics. And what about those minorities not covered in traditional protected characteristics?"
Back to the OP.
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By *stella OP Woman
over a year ago
London |
"I still can't imagine how a legal structure wouldn't be reductive per se. It's impossible to include everything or everyone. "
I’m not suggesting it should include everyone. Il interested in the reductive playout of top trumping of one group to another. We see it in the sexuality v religion in some ways on the forum - this isn’t quite the examples I mean but I guess it’s in there as one. |
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"I still can't imagine how a legal structure wouldn't be reductive per se. It's impossible to include everything or everyone.
I’m not suggesting it should include everyone. Il interested in the reductive playout of top trumping of one group to another. We see it in the sexuality v religion in some ways on the forum - this isn’t quite the examples I mean but I guess it’s in there as one. "
If I understand what you're getting at (forgive me) then I think it's a similar concern. Different disadvantages (under the Act or not) receiving different recognition in a way that inequitable. |
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By *stella OP Woman
over a year ago
London |
"I still can't imagine how a legal structure wouldn't be reductive per se. It's impossible to include everything or everyone.
I’m not suggesting it should include everyone. Il interested in the reductive playout of top trumping of one group to another. We see it in the sexuality v religion in some ways on the forum - this isn’t quite the examples I mean but I guess it’s in there as one.
If I understand what you're getting at (forgive me) then I think it's a similar concern. Different disadvantages (under the Act or not) receiving different recognition in a way that inequitable. "
Yes. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Isn’t it just trying to make any issue too complex to be resolved, thus keeping theorists stroking there chins and playing a game of intellectual one up man ship. When really the answer is simple, if everyone followed the same principle of not being a cunt. |
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By *stella OP Woman
over a year ago
London |
"Isn’t it just trying to make any issue too complex to be resolved, thus keeping theorists stroking there chins and playing a game of intellectual one up man ship. When really the answer is simple, if everyone followed the same principle of not being a cunt."
Yes, you’re right. But I answered why saying this is actually somewhat dismissive in itself further up.
*continues to stroke chin in game of intellectual one up woman ship* |
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I like to understand the common ground we hold, as well as what potential is held - that will usually mean learning about others and what I may be able to share. Acts can be more powerful than talk, with an eagerness to live and share beyond boundaries. |
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By *stella OP Woman
over a year ago
London |
"I like to understand the common ground we hold, as well as what potential is held - that will usually mean learning about others and what I may be able to share. Acts can be more powerful than talk, with an eagerness to live and share beyond boundaries. "
Beautifully put, thank you. |
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I figure as a general rule in life treat people with the same love and respect you want for your self. Now as to everyones individual identities, needs and backgrounds we just can't be expected to know the best way of interacting with them all. Sometimes it may not even be easy to find middle ground. But I think if we adopt the first point we're on track. We can't always get it right, but we can listen and try to our best to understand others, even if they're coming from a totally different perspective. I think most people can tell when someone is at least being genuine in their intentions and respect. But likewise I think we need to be understanding that not everyone always has the experience or background to understand what it's like to be in the shoes of others they have no experiance of. But if we say love and respect is Law number one, I'm sure in time we'll find better understanding and situation for all. |
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By *stella OP Woman
over a year ago
London |
" And what about those minorities not covered in traditional protected characteristics?
Ex cons for instance.. you create your own hierarchy "
Again, say what? Is it something I’ve said you don’t get or something you’re trying to ask? I can’t reply other than ask as I don’t understand your point. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Who dug this back up? Tom, I'm looking at you disapprovingly.
Fucks sake Tom, that means I’ve got to pretend I know what this thread is about again. "
it's a song by Jamiroquai isn't it? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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an atheist youtuber came under fire for the way he handled a trans-woman(male to female)issue,regarding sports,(unfortunately a lot was hijacked).
It was primarily focused on things like contact sports and strength sports like powerlifting)where the perceived advantage of being a trans-woman vs woman was in question and how to regulate it.
Some interesting facts of course when it is researched correctly,unfortunately a lot was hijacked by elements of uninformed people on either side. |
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By *stella OP Woman
over a year ago
London |
"It's dunning-kruger effect OP.
You not me "
Yes, but the thing about DK effect, Tom, is that you can help people learn through communicating and explaining.
I repeat, if you’re willing to explain and pose your question or point I’m more than happy to answer (if that’s what you’re seeking). To not be willing to discourse is rather bizarre and perhaps speaks more to you, than me.
I trust there’s a point there, I’m gutted I can’t find it. Ah well, I can but ask. Shrugs. |
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By *stella OP Woman
over a year ago
London |
"an atheist youtuber came under fire for the way he handled a trans-woman(male to female)issue,regarding sports,(unfortunately a lot was hijacked).
It was primarily focused on things like contact sports and strength sports like powerlifting)where the perceived advantage of being a trans-woman vs woman was in question and how to regulate it.
Some interesting facts of course when it is researched correctly,unfortunately a lot was hijacked by elements of uninformed people on either side. "
That’s a good example, thanks. |
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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago
Hereford |
"
How should we address the fact that some people treat others as less of a human?
Easy.. Don't assume they want your help and fight your own battles..
And it goes back to my earlier point. Ex cons are treated differently depending on their crime"
"I'm alright, Jack" |
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Is the question about:
The ever more nuanced subgroups and handling that scale of subdivision?
The oneup ship that "sometimes" goes with it?
Or about the conflict that occurs when one subgroups cultural claim/belief etc conflicts with another either completely dimension (e.g. religious rights vs sexuality) or more granular (women's culture vs black women's culture)? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Isn’t it just trying to make any issue too complex to be resolved, thus keeping theorists stroking there chins and playing a game of intellectual one up man ship. When really the answer is simple, if everyone followed the same principle of not being a cunt."
Is it okay to like your own comment ?
Thanks in advance x |
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By *stella OP Woman
over a year ago
London |
"Is the question about:
The ever more nuanced subgroups and handling that scale of subdivision?
The oneup ship that "sometimes" goes with it?
Or about the conflict that occurs when one subgroups cultural claim/belief etc conflicts with another either completely dimension (e.g. religious rights vs sexuality) or more granular (women's culture vs black women's culture)?"
That’s brilliantly broken down! Much clearer.
It’s actually about all of that. All that complexity.
|
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By *stella OP Woman
over a year ago
London |
"Isn’t it just trying to make any issue too complex to be resolved, thus keeping theorists stroking there chins and playing a game of intellectual one up man ship. When really the answer is simple, if everyone followed the same principle of not being a cunt.
Is it okay to like your own comment ?
Thanks in advance x"
It’s a good comment |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Isn’t it just trying to make any issue too complex to be resolved, thus keeping theorists stroking there chins and playing a game of intellectual one up man ship. When really the answer is simple, if everyone followed the same principle of not being a cunt.
Is it okay to like your own comment ?
Thanks in advance x
It’s a good comment "
I totally winged it! |
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By *stella OP Woman
over a year ago
London |
"Isn’t it just trying to make any issue too complex to be resolved, thus keeping theorists stroking there chins and playing a game of intellectual one up man ship. When really the answer is simple, if everyone followed the same principle of not being a cunt.
Is it okay to like your own comment ?
Thanks in advance x
It’s a good comment
I totally winged it! "
Still only the pink ones? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Isn’t it just trying to make any issue too complex to be resolved, thus keeping theorists stroking there chins and playing a game of intellectual one up man ship. When really the answer is simple, if everyone followed the same principle of not being a cunt.
Is it okay to like your own comment ?
Thanks in advance x
It’s a good comment
I totally winged it!
Still only the pink ones?"
Is that a tampon joke ? |
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By *stella OP Woman
over a year ago
London |
"Isn’t it just trying to make any issue too complex to be resolved, thus keeping theorists stroking there chins and playing a game of intellectual one up man ship. When really the answer is simple, if everyone followed the same principle of not being a cunt.
Is it okay to like your own comment ?
Thanks in advance x
It’s a good comment
I totally winged it!
Still only the pink ones?
Is that a tampon joke ? "
Sanitary pad. |
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"Is the question about:
The ever more nuanced subgroups and handling that scale of subdivision?
The oneup ship that "sometimes" goes with it?
Or about the conflict that occurs when one subgroups cultural claim/belief etc conflicts with another either completely dimension (e.g. religious rights vs sexuality) or more granular (women's culture vs black women's culture)?
That’s brilliantly broken down! Much clearer.
It’s actually about all of that. All that complexity.
"
I find it hard because every subdivision does seem valid...every attribute most definitely brings with it cultural history, beliefs, challenges and/or privileges. We can't bleach out the rainbow...those differences matter..and need understanding...treating everyone fairly is impossible when you refuse to understand their individual burdens. You can't really deny any subdivision...but in the end you get down to everyone is unique...and people want to belong...so you start coming back again to what is common..it's a yo yo
It shouldn't turn into oneupmanship though..oh you think you have it hard black person try being an x, y,z black person..it's just difference...i don't know why it has to carry a score... poor black man vs rich white woman...who wins twitter lol?
The mutually exclusive stuff though...that is fascinating. To reference a point above...who is the cunt...the gay couple kissing or the conservative religious person who thinks they would be sinning if they don't take a militant stance...I think that is going to be impossible for governance.
What happens when we simply can't all be awesome to each other as bill and ted wanted...and have to pick who gets the awesomeness. |
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