FabSwingers.com > Forums > The Lounge > Ok I’ll ask another question : did Jesus really exist?
Ok I’ll ask another question : did Jesus really exist?
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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No i dont think the "jesus" from the bible existed i think he was probably someone who was fighting against the romans in isreal at the time and 2000yrs of chinese whispers and also it was pope constantine that made him into the son of god etc made him the perfect propaganda machine for the church |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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the jesus of the religious mythology is a composite of several characters. let's face it, if you believe that a supernatural (fictional) being impregnated a human woman who gave birth to a hybrid demi god you have problems |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"the jesus of the religious mythology is a composite of several characters. let's face it, if you believe that a supernatural (fictional) being impregnated a human woman who gave birth to a hybrid demi god you have problems"
Not forgetting he died then came back to life as well great magic trick that |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"the jesus of the religious mythology is a composite of several characters. let's face it, if you believe that a supernatural (fictional) being impregnated a human woman who gave birth to a hybrid demi god you have problems
Not forgetting he died then came back to life as well great magic trick that"
Perhaps he was the Paul Daniels of his day. |
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Yes he existed.
However, since few people could read or write at this time the exaggeration of his being was left to the scribes of the time to create whatever myth they chose. As time went on the variations and exaggerations were exacerbated.
He was probably a story teller cum troubadour who wandered from area to area during which his stock and myth became further enhanced.
Once written in to the bible and with all sorts of verifications (like fab some true and some totally fictional) his place in immortal fame was heralded and later fawned over by followers around the world.
His existence I believe is certain but his actions and 'miracles' hugely distorted.
Unless of course there is some fact or proof out there somewhere..... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Yes I believe that he was an inavator rebel revolutionary and reiki healer of sorts. I don't believe he was the son of God as I don't believe in God.... That's a separation of consciousness as I believe in oneness. We are all fragments of the same energy |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Pontious Pilot made an entry in his biography about a certain trial where one man was freed and one man crucified. Not sure any names were mentioned but the event happened. The crucified man presumably died, end of.
A lot of stories like this were amalgamated and put into the character the church created years later. A son of God born of a vigin birth who died and comes back to life is not an original story, many other religions have similar stories as well as the creation myths, floods, profets and messiah.
As European Pagans discovered centuries later, the Christian church is very good at stealing other religions ideas and festivals and passing them off as their own.
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I perceive that the person people think of was an amalgamation of elements from other religions and traditions that were compiled to support the early Roman leaders and church to convert and control people. Probably no one person had miracles that way and hindsight suggests it was a successful approach that controlled millions and collected £billions from peoples hard earned incomes. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I believe a prophet existed who Jesus is based on. Like all prophets he was probably a person of superhuman intuition, but still just a human like everyone else. His propaganda and teaching was probably fashioned for the good of his people, and by extension all mankind. He may likely have invented certain superstitions like all benevolent leaders of superior intelligence and understanding do for the good of their the simple communities. Like most superstitiond the were designed to make people do sensible things... a more modern examples created by wise people is 'It's bad luck to walk under ladders'....course it's probably not but by believing so with generations the safety of those on those ladders was preserved...not out of superstitious simple peoples concern or awareness for the guy on the ladder but because they were selfishly afraid of bringing bad luck upon themselves...but the end result was the same, people took care around vulnerable people up ladders.
Of course the Roman Empire's leaders and then the Church of Rome and all it's offshoots took over and fashioned canon laws and teachings which suited their own malevolence and power and money obsessed goals in order to enslave the masses through fear.
That's the problem with all religious organisations, they start out benevolent but human nature always corrupted them with power and greed.
I do believe their is a higher energy and a place where our consciousness meets that energy after death. We are too complex and advanced beyond all the other known species to be engineered by random evolution alone. I certainly would not say my theory on Jesus to a devout Christian, or my theory on any religion ( besides Scientology and other eminently dangerous cults ) to devout followers, because they take strenght in their faiths, and they may be 100% right in their beliefs for all I or anyone else knows. All the major religions follow basic good codes that are more or less versions of most of the ten commandments...and most of those and their versions in other faiths have good merit behind them.
Personally I believe we are all going to the same place ( consciousness ) after we die. I believe religions are the mega vessels taking us there. It doesn't matter which mega vessel your on. It doesn't matter if your on a ship, tug, canoe or swimming, we're all going in the same direction towards the same light / energy / afterlife...but that's just my personal opinion.
I'm going to feckin be in Fr. Murphy's confessional for an hour after this next Friday week, and he's not going to let me off with a few Hail Mary's and Our Father's after this blasphemy  |
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By *ea monkeyMan
over a year ago
Manchester (he/him) |
"Blimey that’s an essay, only asked if Jesus actually lived..."
It's not possible to discuss Jesus without it leading to the greater discussion of religion, I don't think.
I think that he did exist, he pops up in lots of different religious texts, so simply from that point of view there's enough data to say "yes, he did" fairly conclusively.
The greater discussion about who he was and what he did? Well, its taken scholars and greater enquiring minds than ours thousands of years to answer this...
What we believe, what we know and what we're told are very, very different things and I think it's important to recognise the differences
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Blimey that’s an essay, only asked if Jesus actually lived...
It's not possible to discuss Jesus without it leading to the greater discussion of religion, I don't think.
I think that he did exist, he pops up in lots of different religious texts, so simply from that point of view there's enough data to say "yes, he did" fairly conclusively.
The greater discussion about who he was and what he did? Well, its taken scholars and greater enquiring minds than ours thousands of years to answer this...
What we believe, what we know and what we're told are very, very different things and I think it's important to recognise the differences
"
 This  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Most historians would say that he did. Of course that doesn’t mean he was divine though. But there is strong historical evidence that a man known as Jesus of Nazareth existed. "
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"He was referenced in Roman scripts. I believe he did exist. A rabbi who upset the apple cart somewhat."
If memory serves the references are suspect and/or misunderstood.
But it is likely someone broadly similar existed, yes. |
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"I’m going to ask two questions each night, hope you’ll play along
If it gets too much... let me know"
Many humans called jesus existed
No creator exists thus no son of creator exists
Many wannabe life gurus and conmen existed , some called jesus, some John, some Paul
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Yes, Jesus existed as did the prophet Muhammad..
There is truth behind most of the new testament and even the old testament, but as the stories were handed down or recited by others, they were embellished by those wishing to promote the greatness of their religion..
You have to realise at that time there were many religions and many more deities and gods..
As John Cleese said in the life of Brian "You are the Messiah, I should know, I have followed a few" |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Blimey that’s an essay, only asked if Jesus actually lived..."
It did turn into a bit of a philosophy thesis unfortunately  , but asking a question about the existence of a figure fundamental to one of the major religions is a potential landmine question. The last thing I'd want is to offend someone's personal faith, it can be so integral to their lives. I have my own personal theory on it, and it's just that, a theory. It's no more valid than anyone else's. I think everyone should be tolerant and have respect for those who's faiths / beliefs system is fundamentally 'live and let live. Ordinary lay people of all faiths and none have been manipulated always by fundamentalism that doesn't respect the free will and rights of others to believe and live as they see fit. |
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By *ait88Man
over a year ago
Plymouth |
"I'm no expert but I think there's some evidence that suggests he did."
" Most historians would say that he did. Of course that doesn’t mean he was divine though. But there is strong historical evidence that a man known as Jesus of Nazareth existed. "
There is absolutely NO EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER that the biblical “Jesus Of Nazareth” was born or crucified. There are no references to him in surviving copies of contemporary censuses or records of criminal proceedings.
Scholarly assurances to the contrary are all based on written documents, the earliest of which is thought to have been written between 20 and 30 years after the crucifixion by a religious fanatic.
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"I'm no expert but I think there's some evidence that suggests he did.
Most historians would say that he did. Of course that doesn’t mean he was divine though. But there is strong historical evidence that a man known as Jesus of Nazareth existed.
There is absolutely NO EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER that the biblical “Jesus Of Nazareth” was born or crucified. There are no references to him in surviving copies of contemporary censuses or records of criminal proceedings.
Scholarly assurances to the contrary are all based on written documents, the earliest of which is thought to have been written between 20 and 30 years after the crucifixion by a religious fanatic.
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Some of the big events in the gospels just don't jive with how things were done in Roman colonies at the time, if memory serves.
Was there a man called Jesus, father Joseph, a carpenter and roaming preacher? Probably. But it's a bit like saying there's a Peter Jones in Wales who likes rugby. Doesn't mean that either is the Messiah. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Most historians would say that he did. Of course that doesn’t mean he was divine though. But there is strong historical evidence that a man known as Jesus of Nazareth existed.
"
Only those historians who study the bible for their history would claim this.
There is no documentary evidence of a census anywhere near the time he was supposed to have been born, and if there was there is a second city called bethlehem which is much closer to Nazereth and therefore more likely to have been Joseph's place of birth. But even then what is the sense of a census that says ok everyone go somewhere different, get counted then go home to make the counting wrong instantly
Virgin birth is quite possible though, the temple of Vesta employed prostitutes to bring in Roman soldiers any that had sex in the temple for money was considered still a virgin at the end of her service.
I would like to think there was one or a group of people who the stories got based on, but I would also like to believe in king Arthur and Merlin, and I also really want to believe in 8' tall hairy orange fairies |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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He may have existed in some form although most if what it is claimed he did is fables and some of the miracles he performed have logical explanations. I personally don't think he was the son of God.
For example
Walked on water ...in some places there is so much salt that as long as a person keeps walking they don't sink.
Feeding with 2 fishes....probably whales or something large...not the cod that springs to mind..
Also Mosses parting the water ...freak tide or tidal wave.
In those days they didn't know about how the planet works like we do and would have thought of these things as miracles ect.
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"He may have existed in some form although most if what it is claimed he did is fables and some of the miracles he performed have logical explanations. I personally don't think he was the son of God.
For example
Walked on water ...in some places there is so much salt that as long as a person keeps walking they don't sink.
Feeding with 2 fishes....probably whales or something large...not the cod that springs to mind..
Also Mosses parting the water ...freak tide or tidal wave.
In those days they didn't know about how the planet works like we do and would have thought of these things as miracles ect.
"
It seems people with understanding have always fooled those without ,
I conclude many biblical stories have a basis , often far from any truth though and almost certainly nothing to do with any creator , that human imagination at work
I like flood facts
In human history many significant flood events have occurred,
However there has not been a total coverage of land mass , after significant rainfall in that time period
Theres not enough water on earth , the rain for 40 nights to cover , would need to be 100 m3 a day or 33 litres per second per m2
Erm no
No God, lots of imagination |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Don't know, there's zero contemporary historical evidence. I think that it's likely that there was a charismatic itinerant Rabbi called Yeshua upon whom the legends are based. But he was just a bloke. |
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