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Complete freedom of speech.............
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"If society was given complete freedom of speech and you could finally say what you felt without the unnatural suppression imposed by society (yes i realise some can already seemingly without consequences but Thats another debate) Why in your opinion would this be a good or a bad thing? Its only words surely??? "zips mouth up firmly  | |||
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"Society by definition is the suppression of the self to conform to an external, universally agreed standard. Truly 'free' speech cannot exist at the same time as 'society'." wow thats deep  | |||
"Society by definition is the suppression of the self to conform to an external, universally agreed standard. Truly 'free' speech cannot exist at the same time as 'society'." Agreed but whats your answer to the Question?? | |||
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"If society was given complete freedom of speech and you could finally say what you felt without the unnatural suppression imposed by society (yes i realise some can already seemingly without consequences but Thats another debate) Why in your opinion would this be a good or a bad thing? Its only words surely??? "Yes, i am a pure libertarian, anyone should be able to say what they like,pedoes write stories about kids, racists spout (imo) bollocks, holocaust denied,porn allowed to show anything consensual, the current law as it stands is that upset must be caused by words, i think that is too weak, im upset by fecking richard littlejohn, no one arrests him. however i also want the right to call prejudiced feckers ignorant small minded twunts 
And remember political correctness is nothing more than good manners, there is nothing big or clever about using words others find offensive, | |||
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"Isn't "freedom of speech" a seppo first ammendment or something ? And since they're on a world domination thingie, we vote YES, not that it will count." seppo? | |||
"Isn't "freedom of speech" a seppo first ammendment or something ? And since they're on a world domination thingie, we vote YES, not that it will count. seppo?" Septic tank - yank, I'm guessing | |||
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"Isn't "freedom of speech" a seppo first ammendment or something ? And since they're on a world domination thingie, we vote YES, not that it will count. seppo? Septic tank - yank, I'm guessing" yep | |||
"Freedom of speech for the home. In public though words have consequences. They can cause misery and oppression. No one thinks, for example, the BNP should be able to put up huge posters which say "FUCK OFF N******!" Or do they?" I do. seig heil all you want, paint swastika's where you will, freedom of speech. Helps the more sensible among us identify them. | |||
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" I do. seig heil all you want, paint swastika's where you will, freedom of speech. Helps the more sensible among us identify them." Actually thats the very thing i was hinting at If it was allowed it would give people the chance to make an informed opinion of the person and avoid xx | |||
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"Freedom of speech for the home. In public though words have consequences. They can cause misery and oppression. No one thinks, for example, the BNP should be able to put up huge posters which say "FUCK OFF N******!" Or do they?" i do, i left hope not hate because i disagree with a no platform ideology.Give the feckers a platform, then send in those who are offended...heavily armed 
More seriously it is a philosophical position, ban one thing cos it offends and it just becomes line drawing. | |||
""Freedom of speech is our birth right..." Philisophically, the constraints that any language places on expression of 'the truth' as one perceives it will always prevent 'the truth' being accurately conveyed. If you speak Cantonese for example, you can swear much more fluently, personally and effectively than any Anglo Saxon language. So in some senses, when you really want to swear, English prevents you from having truly 'Free speech'. Your birthright has stopped you dead in your tracks. " Not if I have sufficient command of the language to enable of to fully expound my premis without resort to vernacular...;-) | |||
" I do. seig heil all you want, paint swastika's where you will, freedom of speech. Helps the more sensible among us identify them. Actually thats the very thing i was hinting at If it was allowed it would give people the chance to make an informed opinion of the person and avoid xx "Aah my Soapy friend, you then have to acknowledge some people will bring a gun to a fist fight. I'm sure I wouldn't escape unscathed if I ventured into a mosque chomping on a pork pie reading aloud from the Satanic Verses. | |||
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"If society was given complete freedom of speech and you could finally say what you felt without the unnatural suppression imposed by society (yes i realise some can already seemingly without consequences but Thats another debate) Why in your opinion would this be a good or a bad thing? Its only words surely??? "What a great thread to come back to! Well it would be right up my street and I would be all for it when does it start then? | |||
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"SassyMiss, I'm sure you're right - but you SHOULD be able to do those things. If people are offended, well...tough!" What a nonsense....whatever happened to RESPECT? | |||
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"SassyMiss, I'm sure you're right - but you SHOULD be able to do those things. If people are offended, well...tough! What a nonsense....whatever happened to RESPECT?" It was converted into green toilet paper. | |||
"SassyMiss, I'm sure you're right - but you SHOULD be able to do those things. If people are offended, well...tough!" so, when several big blokes walk into your house and tell you graphically what they want to do to your loved ones... thats ok?? | |||
"The claw hammer that has just hit your thumb will not respond to much else, and to hear someone fluent in Cantonese lyrically cursing not only the parentage but species of an offendant's family soars way beyond mere 'vernacular'. Anglo Saxon is a linguistic dead-end in terms of swearing (which must surely be considered fairly high up on the list of proscribed speech)and hinders rather than aids the process of expressing high emotion. I agree that one should always seek to express oneself in the most appropriate and culturally acceptable way possible, which in turn makes rather a mockery of free speech. More inventive swearing, involving full and uninhibited incorporation of adjective, adverb and syntax to express the depth of disdain, disgust, delight delinquency or deity should be encouraged, even if it does contain some expletives along the way." you what ?? | |||
"SassyMiss, I'm sure you're right - but you SHOULD be able to do those things. If people are offended, well...tough! What a nonsense....whatever happened to RESPECT?" Yep. Give people an inch, they take a mile! Lol  | |||
"so, when several big blokes walk into your house and tell you graphically what they want to do to your loved ones... thats ok??" Yes, sticks and stones will break their bones. | |||
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"The claw hammer that has just hit your thumb will not respond to much else, and to hear someone fluent in Cantonese lyrically cursing not only the parentage but species of an offendant's family soars way beyond mere 'vernacular'. Anglo Saxon is a linguistic dead-end in terms of swearing (which must surely be considered fairly high up on the list of proscribed speech)and hinders rather than aids the process of expressing high emotion. I agree that one should always seek to express oneself in the most appropriate and culturally acceptable way possible, which in turn makes rather a mockery of free speech. More inventive swearing, involving full and uninhibited incorporation of adjective, adverb and syntax to express the depth of disdain, disgust, delight delinquency or deity should be encouraged, even if it does contain some expletives along the way." this is one of the reasons i think fab is just that... | |||
"But why would you want to do those things unless to provoke or upset someone? And if you only want freedom of speech to provoke or upset someone isnt that abusing it?" Technically yes but if you let people say what they really feel and think surely it would give us all the opportunity to avoid the "nutters" completely xx | |||
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"Yep. Give people an inch, they take a mile! Lol "if anyone wants an inch you know where to find me  | |||
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"But why would you want to do those things unless to provoke or upset someone? And if you only want freedom of speech to provoke or upset someone isnt that abusing it? Technically yes but if you let people say what they really feel and think surely it would give us all the opportunity to avoid the "nutters" completely xx "You may not be able to avoid those nutters that have been allowed to spout their hatred when they all get together and decide to come for you | |||
"The claw hammer that has just hit your thumb will not respond to much else, and to hear someone fluent in Cantonese lyrically cursing not only the parentage but species of an offendant's family soars way beyond mere 'vernacular'. Anglo Saxon is a linguistic dead-end in terms of swearing (which must surely be considered fairly high up on the list of proscribed speech)and hinders rather than aids the process of expressing high emotion. I agree that one should always seek to express oneself in the most appropriate and culturally acceptable way possible, which in turn makes rather a mockery of free speech. More inventive swearing, involving full and uninhibited incorporation of adjective, adverb and syntax to express the depth of disdain, disgust, delight delinquency or deity should be encouraged, even if it does contain some expletives along the way." Just a small question Did you write Eric cantonas famous seagull speech?? xx | |||
"Satisfy Jane, Lots of people annoy me. Lots of people probably annoy you. We shouldn't try to silence them. Speak your mind. Don't let the bogus concept of 'respect' prevent you from challenging ideas. How can a democracy function if people don't take part in the battle of ideas? Respect...my arse!" That's all well and good but without respect, aren't we losing a key feature in society? Yeah, people annoys us and we annoy them but in the end we all depend on each other. So you need some respect or we're all screwed! | |||
"Yep. Give people an inch, they take a mile! Lol
if anyone wants an inch you know where to find me
"Lol. Funny guy! | |||
"But why would you want to do those things unless to provoke or upset someone? And if you only want freedom of speech to provoke or upset someone isnt that abusing it? Technically yes but if you let people say what they really feel and think surely it would give us all the opportunity to avoid the "nutters" completely xx
You may not be able to avoid those nutters that have been allowed to spout their hatred when they all get together and decide to come for you"Top Post.....  | |||
""you what ??" If you want free speech, you have to find a way of expressing exactly what you want to without upsetting anyone, otherwise your speech won't stay very free. Best analogy I can think of is when you want to swear really loudly in a public/inappropriate place. If you choose to shout 'f*****g hell you c**t you've really p****d me off and now I'm starting to think your parents were never married or even human' might not allow you to respond to their no doubt free and frank response before you are politely asked to leave. Now, should you choose to do so in a foreign language, you will have the ability to express yourself in fully 'free speech' yet will likely not attract the attentions of the authorities. More obviously, use English properly and with speak with careful thought as to the likely audience and fallout of any inflammatory ideas. In doing so, you will probably get a chance to speak again, and yet again. If you choose to be purely combative and provocative with no regard for the opinions and belief systems of others, then you are unlikely to be permitted much of a platform for your views." but it also helps if everyone can understand what you're trying to say | |||
"But why would you want to do those things unless to provoke or upset someone? And if you only want freedom of speech to provoke or upset someone isnt that abusing it? Technically yes but if you let people say what they really feel and think surely it would give us all the opportunity to avoid the "nutters" completely xx
You may not be able to avoid those nutters that have been allowed to spout their hatred when they all get together and decide to come for you"Aye but violence is still against the law and these people still think it even if they dont say it soooooo xx | |||
"If society was given complete freedom of speech and you could finally say what you felt without the unnatural suppression imposed by society (yes i realise some can already seemingly without consequences but Thats another debate) Why in your opinion would this be a good or a bad thing? Its only words surely??? "This could only be a good thing if there was an international gismo, as some people have a tendendcy to shout over other, or trample upon them. If the world was capable of handling freedom of speech, true freedom of speech, then we would be in a state of perfect tolerance ........... FAT CHANCE | |||
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"The claw hammer that has just hit your thumb will not respond to much else, and to hear someone fluent in Cantonese lyrically cursing not only the parentage but species of an offendant's family soars way beyond mere 'vernacular'. Anglo Saxon is a linguistic dead-end in terms of swearing (which must surely be considered fairly high up on the list of proscribed speech)and hinders rather than aids the process of expressing high emotion. I agree that one should always seek to express oneself in the most appropriate and culturally acceptable way possible, which in turn makes rather a mockery of free speech. More inventive swearing, involving full and uninhibited incorporation of adjective, adverb and syntax to express the depth of disdain, disgust, delight delinquency or deity should be encouraged, even if it does contain some expletives along the way." Wibble!! | |||
"If all mankind minus one were of one opinion, and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person, than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind." John Stuart Mill 1806-1873" Quality | |||
"Society by definition is the suppression of the self to conform to an external, universally agreed standard. Truly 'free' speech cannot exist at the same time as 'society'." Don't talk bliddy wet!!!!! If there had not been those who spoke up freely there would be no semblance of "society" at all in our current era. But I guess, we must now define what we mean by society. | |||
""Freedom of speech is our birth right..." Philisophically, the constraints that any language places on expression of 'the truth' as one perceives it will always prevent 'the truth' being accurately conveyed. If you speak Cantonese for example, you can swear much more fluently, personally and effectively than any Anglo Saxon language. So in some senses, when you really want to swear, English prevents you from having truly 'Free speech'. Your birthright has stopped you dead in your tracks. " and I quote "Blessed are the cheesemakers" (anonymous) | |||
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""Freedom of speech is our birth right..." to enable of to fully expound my premis ...;-)" was that a spelling error? | |||
"SassyMiss, I'm sure you're right - but you SHOULD be able to do those things. If people are offended, well...tough! What a nonsense....whatever happened to RESPECT? Yep. Give people an inch, they take a mile! Lol "I'm quite happy with seven or eight.  | |||
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"The claw hammer that has just hit your thumb will not respond to much else, and to hear someone fluent in Cantonese lyrically cursing not only the parentage but species of an offendant's family soars way beyond mere 'vernacular'. Anglo Saxon is a linguistic dead-end in terms of swearing (which must surely be considered fairly high up on the list of proscribed speech)and hinders rather than aids the process of expressing high emotion. I agree that one should always seek to express oneself in the most appropriate and culturally acceptable way possible, which in turn makes rather a mockery of free speech. More inventive swearing, involving full and uninhibited incorporation of adjective, adverb and syntax to express the depth of disdain, disgust, delight delinquency or deity should be encouraged, even if it does contain some expletives along the way." Whilst I know little of one of the Chinese dialects, I do have a full command of three European languages to be able to fully extend my premis without resort to the inconsequential depths of vernacular epithet... Ergo your premis has little relevance within the parameters of the freedom of the speech which I prefer to adopt... | |||
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"Democrats have been silenced throughout history. The same forces are at work today claiming that we must be silent because of 'respect'. Who is it that says we must be silent? What right do they have? How do they decide which opinions must be silenced and which can be voiced? I respect everyone's opinion - but EVERYONE has the right to argue with that opinion." The church. | |||
"Democrats have been silenced throughout history. The same forces are at work today claiming that we must be silent because of 'respect'. Who is it that says we must be silent? What right do they have? How do they decide which opinions must be silenced and which can be voiced? I respect everyone's opinion - but EVERYONE has the right to argue with that opinion." Of course they do. Who said respect meant you had to be silent? | |||
"The claw hammer that has just hit your thumb will not respond to much else, and to hear someone fluent in Cantonese lyrically cursing not only the parentage but species of an offendant's family soars way beyond mere 'vernacular'. Anglo Saxon is a linguistic dead-end in terms of swearing (which must surely be considered fairly high up on the list of proscribed speech)and hinders rather than aids the process of expressing high emotion. I agree that one should always seek to express oneself in the most appropriate and culturally acceptable way possible, which in turn makes rather a mockery of free speech. More inventive swearing, involving full and uninhibited incorporation of adjective, adverb and syntax to express the depth of disdain, disgust, delight delinquency or deity should be encouraged, even if it does contain some expletives along the way. Whilst I know little of one of the Chinese dialects, I do have a full command of three European languages to be able to fully extend my premis without resort to the inconsequential depths of vernacular epithet... Ergo your premis has little relevance within the parameters of the freedom of the speech which I prefer to adopt..." wot e said (plus a little arabic) | |||
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""Freedom of speech is our birth right..." to enable of to fully expound my premis ...;-) was that a spelling error?" Yup... *me... Fucked by predictive text yet again...  | |||
"Society by definition is the suppression of the self to conform to an external, universally agreed standard. Truly 'free' speech cannot exist at the same time as 'society'. Don't talk bliddy wet!!!!! If there had not been those who spoke up freely there would be no semblance of "society" at all in our current era. But I guess, we must now define what we mean by society. " The society that we live in wasn't forged one afternoon by some brave lonely soul with a golden hammer and an anvil made of ideals and love. It evolved from countless decisions, laws, statutes and received wisdom not to mention common sense that have been handed down from one generation to the next. Sometimes these are straightforward like "Don't kill people or incite others to do so" as they damage the society that allows the concept of murder as a crime to exist. Sometimes they are not so obvious like "If you are convicted of murder then you must not be permitted to vote" as you have demonstrated that you are not a correctly functioning member of that society. Both of these actions curtail your free speech and expression, yet both actions arise from the constr aints that society places on behaviour. Right or wrong, society dictates what we do. To a greater or lesser extent, we are controlled by it and must conform or we risk being either locked up or sanctioned to the point where we can no longer be free. The great model that the American system tried to build still began as an industrial hegemony largely driven by slave labour, yet the 'right to freedom of speech' is still held up as somehow a 'birthright' or a 'law'. Follow the logic through and it's obvious that truly free speech can't ever exist as long as we all agree to be nice to each other at the same time. We can disagree and argue, but at some point if that argument continues with both sides exerting their right to free speech, someone will end up getting upset/hurt/killed/arrested. Defending to the death someone's right to free speech is a wonderful ideal, but in a society just not practical, nor advisable. You end up dead with no free speech at all. The collective consciousness that is society will ultimately decide on what is right and wrong. Sometimes it gets it right sometimes it gets it wrong. Eventually, society can and does change its mind, sometmes, stubbornly it doesn't. | |||
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"CL, There has arisen recently a bogus doctrine of 'offence'. It has been elided into the equally bogus concept of owing 'respect'. If you accept that no-one should be given 'offence' it means that you give the right of censorship to anyone who claims to have been 'offended'. You do not have the right to silence me because you don't like what I say (I acept you haven't tried to!) and I don't have the right to say that you mustn't challenge my beliefs either." Mate, this is not about being offended or censorship. It's about respect to others so that what you or I say doesn't inflict negatively on someone's ability to operate in society. I guess it's down to interpretation but having been on the receiving end of "free speech" and what my grandparents went through, a little respect could go a long way. | |||
""Freedom of speech is our birth right..." to enable of to fully expound my premis ...;-) was that a spelling error? Yup... *me... Fucked by predictive text yet again... "I thought it must have been a European spelling. But the image of someone being fucked by predictive text is why Anglo Saxon does have it's colourful plus side and why I think we actually agree on the subject. | |||
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" Its only words surely??? "Words issued from the right mouth, with the right authority, or perceived authority can lead to action. | |||
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"CL, Yes, you may wish to decry racists - and I would agree. But they DO have a right to speak. Just as you have a right to speak your mind. If someone silenced you because they didn't like what you say, you'd be rightly angry. Everyone has that right." I respect the right. I worry about the actions that may stem from it. | |||
"Just don't forget to swear at the alarm clock at sparrow-fart tomorrow morning! " Now That I Can do in 3 languages... | |||
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"CL, We all worry about the actions that may stem from it. But that shouldn't stop us from speaking out. We would never have got democracy unless people had acted upon thoughts and words. The pen is mightier than the sword." I hear that. Shame most go for the sword first. | |||
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"Jemima, PC is about far more than 'good manners'. It is based on oppression theory - a Marxist concept that the opinions we hold serve to 'oppress' others. It is the opposite of good manners. How can people challenge and debate ideas if their opponent trumps them by saying they are offended - and then people like you say we lack good manners. PC is the bullying denial of free speech - of which any democrat must be in favour." no, thats your interpretation of it...but i know a good marxist who will hopefully tell you why your an ignorant twunt...with a small dick...but hey, dont get offended..then you would just be trumping my arguement with political correctness | |||
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""You cannot live in society and be free from society" which is exactly what I said, only I included some nifty examples involving swearing in Cantonese, unlike Lenin. Well said!" Interesting that one I actually seriously DONT want to live in society but do want to live freely in the country of my birth However its impossible not to live in society because its all geared that way I cant just do as nature intended and gather food for myself and live free its not possible or allowed Do you think i may have a case with the european court of human rights on that one????????? | |||
""You cannot live in society and be free from society" which is exactly what I said, only I included some nifty examples involving swearing in Cantonese, unlike Lenin. Well said! Interesting that one I actually seriously DONT want to live in society but do want to live freely in the country of my birth However its impossible not to live in society because its all geared that way I cant just do as nature intended and gather food for myself and live free its not possible or allowed Do you think i may have a case with the european court of human rights on that one????????? "Aren't you protected under the "Rare and Unusual Species Act", I am sure we could build a reserve........ | |||
"If all mankind minus one were of one opinion, and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person, than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind." John Stuart Mill 1806-1873" Ah a great old Liberal(although the present LD Party make us believe they come from the Liberal Party, they don't and the Liberal Party still exist) and disciple of Jeremy Bentham. Back then it was the "new" school thought known as utilitarianism. Basically brought in the new world we know today. | |||
""You cannot live in society and be free from society" which is exactly what I said, only I included some nifty examples involving swearing in Cantonese, unlike Lenin. Well said! Interesting that one I actually seriously DONT want to live in society but do want to live freely in the country of my birth However its impossible not to live in society because its all geared that way I cant just do as nature intended and gather food for myself and live free its not possible or allowed Do you think i may have a case with the european court of human rights on that one????????? "What would life be without people though? Remember the "Borrowers"? | |||
" What would life be without people though? Remember the "Borrowers"?" Peaceful thou and no "timewasters" either xx | |||
""You cannot live in society and be free from society" which is exactly what I said, only I included some nifty examples involving swearing in Cantonese, unlike Lenin. Well said! Interesting that one I actually seriously DONT want to live in society but do want to live freely in the country of my birth However its impossible not to live in society because its all geared that way I cant just do as nature intended and gather food for myself and live free its not possible or allowed Do you think i may have a case with the european court of human rights on that one?????????
What would life be without people though? Remember the "Borrowers"?"He is so not going to like that height reference, I am out of here before he gets his Scottish bodyguard to Let loose the hounds of war and cry havoc (or whatever that translates into up there), scared? Too feckin right | |||
""You cannot live in society and be free from society" which is exactly what I said, only I included some nifty examples involving swearing in Cantonese, unlike Lenin. Well said! Interesting that one I actually seriously DONT want to live in society but do want to live freely in the country of my birth However its impossible not to live in society because its all geared that way I cant just do as nature intended and gather food for myself and live free its not possible or allowed Do you think i may have a case with the european court of human rights on that one?????????
What would life be without people though? Remember the "Borrowers"?
He is so not going to like that height reference, I am out of here before he gets his Scottish bodyguard to Let loose the hounds of war and cry havoc (or whatever that translates into up there), scared? Too feckin right"twas not a reference to his height! As if! though the thought did cross me mind after I typed it.  | |||
""You cannot live in society and be free from society" which is exactly what I said, only I included some nifty examples involving swearing in Cantonese, unlike Lenin. Well said! Interesting that one I actually seriously DONT want to live in society but do want to live freely in the country of my birth However its impossible not to live in society because its all geared that way I cant just do as nature intended and gather food for myself and live free its not possible or allowed Do you think i may have a case with the european court of human rights on that one?????????
What would life be without people though? Remember the "Borrowers"?
He is so not going to like that height reference, I am out of here before he gets his Scottish bodyguard to Let loose the hounds of war and cry havoc (or whatever that translates into up there), scared? Too feckin right"nae need tae be scared paulie.... when he gets his typing fingers oot, he's on his ain (he keeps the fingers in a box you know). I Am not, never have been, and never will be responsible for the inane ramblings he spouts! If ye's want tae rip him tae fuck, then please carry oan wi ma blessing.... xxxx | |||
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""You cannot live in society and be free from society" which is exactly what I said, only I included some nifty examples involving swearing in Cantonese, unlike Lenin. Well said! Interesting that one I actually seriously DONT want to live in society but do want to live freely in the country of my birth However its impossible not to live in society because its all geared that way I cant just do as nature intended and gather food for myself and live free its not possible or allowed Do you think i may have a case with the european court of human rights on that one?????????
What would life be without people though? Remember the "Borrowers"?
He is so not going to like that height reference, I am out of here before he gets his Scottish bodyguard to Let loose the hounds of war and cry havoc (or whatever that translates into up there), scared? Too feckin right
nae need tae be scared paulie.... when he gets his typing fingers oot, he's on his ain (he keeps the fingers in a box you know).
I Am not, never have been, and never will be responsible for the inane ramblings he spouts!
If ye's want tae rip him tae fuck, then please carry oan wi ma blessing....
xxxx"See, now thats the kind of woman I need! Soapy, you are one lucky man! | |||
"Freedom of speech remember..." we may be on "borrowed" time ..... | |||
" nae need tae be scared paulie.... when he gets his typing fingers oot, he's on his ain (he keeps the fingers in a box you know). I Am not, never have been, and never will be responsible for the inane ramblings he spouts! If ye's want tae rip him tae fuck, then please carry oan wi ma blessing.... xxxx" What ya rattlin ya gums at now bint?? xx | |||
" nae need tae be scared paulie.... when he gets his typing fingers oot, he's on his ain (he keeps the fingers in a box you know). I Am not, never have been, and never will be responsible for the inane ramblings he spouts! If ye's want tae rip him tae fuck, then please carry oan wi ma blessing.... xxxx What ya rattlin ya gums at now bint?? xx "you are getting naewhere near ma gums tonight... put that cock in ma direction and it's getting cut off! Keep up the cheek and you will be wearing your bollox as earrings by the morning..............DARLNIG!!!! | |||
