FabSwingers.com > Forums > The Lounge > Caster Semenya
Caster Semenya
Jump to: Newest in thread
 |
By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
Discrimination was "necessary, reasonable and proportionate" to protect "the integrity of female athletics".
Interesting comment from the Court of Arbitration for Sport (CAS).
She has lost her appeal to complete without medication to reduce her hormone levels down to the norms between male and female.
Question: Should men and women just not all compete together in equality? Or should there be clear differences drawn out, unfortunate for those who cross over the limits/boundaries? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
There are arguments for competing together but you'd often find one gender would take all the awards, so it makes sense to have distinctions, allowing people to compete with similar others. It's possibly harsh to have expectations that people should undergo hormone management treatment, if they wish to compete, just through natural variations that have occurred, through no fault of their own.
Should men with more testosterone who get better shagging results, have to be under a similar regime, to make it fairer for other guys who are less 'alpha'? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
It sounds discriminatory to me - suggesting someone takes drugs to reduce performance is a bit hypocritical at the very least when they are banned from using performance enhancing drugs! & the health implications are pretty unknown. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"There are arguments for competing together but you'd often find one gender would take all the awards, so it makes sense to have distinctions, allowing people to compete with similar others. It's possibly harsh to have expectations that people should undergo hormone management treatment, if they wish to compete, just through natural variations that have occurred, through no fault of their own.
Should men with more testosterone who get better shagging results, have to be under a similar regime, to make it fairer for other guys who are less 'alpha'? "
Natural selection of the fittest already happens  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"It sounds discriminatory to me - suggesting someone takes drugs to reduce performance is a bit hypocritical at the very least when they are banned from using performance enhancing drugs! & the health implications are pretty unknown."
Exactly! So can male athletes with low testosterone take them to increase it to balance that up? Can of worms seriously opened ! |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
Personally I think it's the right decision.
I know it may seem harsh for her but she has an unfair advantage at the end of the day over the rest of the women competing. Whether it's natural or not.
The significant drop in her results during the period she had to reduce her levels show the advantage she was gaining. It's levelling the field. If she's that good she would win with the same levels as everyone else. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Personally I think it's the right decision.
I know it may seem harsh for her but she has an unfair advantage at the end of the day over the rest of the women competing. Whether it's natural or not.
The significant drop in her results during the period she had to reduce her levels show the advantage she was gaining. It's levelling the field. If she's that good she would win with the same levels as everyone else. "
So by that example all men have different testosterone levels so therefore should be brought into the same level as all other competitors!
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Discrimination was "necessary, reasonable and proportionate" to protect "the integrity of female athletics".
Interesting comment from the Court of Arbitration for Sport (CAS).
She has lost her appeal to complete without medication to reduce her hormone levels down to the norms between male and female.
Question: Should men and women just not all compete together in equality? Or should there be clear differences drawn out, unfortunate for those who cross over the limits/boundaries?"
It's funny how the East German women (back in the day) won everything. And were more masculine than there male counterparts. Years down the line they were brought to book for abusing steroids/testerone injections but weren't hounded like this female athlete had been. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago
Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound |
The only way this can be enforced in a non-discriminatory way is to introduce the same sort of categories and leveling that happens with para sports. Only those with the same levels competing against each other - in everything. That would open up men and women competing against each other if they have the same levels.
Testosterone without the training and dedication would only take her so far. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"As i said earlier its bullshit its a natursl advantagr like being a 7ft basket ball player "
Exactly
Maybe they should only have 6 foot basketball players allowed just to be fair to everybody else |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"As i said earlier its bullshit its a natursl advantagr like being a 7ft basket ball player
Exactly
Maybe they should only have 6 foot basketball players allowed just to be fair to everybody else "
All these mentioned are physical attributes where as this is chemical. Hard to compare the two imo. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"As i said earlier its bullshit its a natursl advantagr like being a 7ft basket ball player "
Being 7ft doesn't make you a better player though - just taller |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago
Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound |
"As i said earlier its bullshit its a natursl advantagr like being a 7ft basket ball player
Exactly
Maybe they should only have 6 foot basketball players allowed just to be fair to everybody else
All these mentioned are physical attributes where as this is chemical. Hard to compare the two imo."
Naturally occurring. Without the training and hard work she wouldn't be able to win just on the testosterone.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"As i said earlier its bullshit its a natursl advantagr like being a 7ft basket ball player
Exactly
Maybe they should only have 6 foot basketball players allowed just to be fair to everybody else
All these mentioned are physical attributes where as this is chemical. Hard to compare the two imo."
It it is still no different than one male athlete having more testosterone than another but you don’t hear men moaning about it, well not yet anyways.
Maybe that will be the next news  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
What I found interesting is that such a world recognised body accepts that not all discrimination is unacceptable.
Interesting that in her last 5000m race which was only ever her second one she beat the current word champion by over 100m. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"What I found interesting is that such a world recognised body accepts that not all discrimination is unacceptable.
Interesting that in her last 5000m race which was only ever her second one she beat the current word champion by over 100m."
I do hope that she does race again and wins so she can flip the bird at them  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *os19Man
over a year ago
Edmonton |
Caster Semenya has won the 800 metres Olympics 3 times and the 800 metres World Champions 3 times she has passed every test that had been asked of her by the IAAF and the Olympics committee be it steroids use or gender related.I feel that CAS have not treated her fairly and Seb Coe as the head of athletics should be doing more to clean up athletics not taking the easy option by signaling out Caster |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
I think it’s a joke to be fair. The reason elite athletes are elite athletes is as much to do with genetics and natural (if you believe they’re all natural) hormones as it is to do with practice and training.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
I agree with the decision. As Sharron Davies says, if we are not careful in 10 years time all records in men's sport will be held by men and all records in women's sport will be held by women who carry a Y Chromosome!!!... not much incentive for the massive majority in Women's sport but a great incentive for unscrupulous Governments to get in the record books.. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"It sounds discriminatory to me - suggesting someone takes drugs to reduce performance is a bit hypocritical at the very least when they are banned from using performance enhancing drugs! & the health implications are pretty unknown."
Absolutely agree. And I would’ve posted similar if you hadn’t!  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"As i said earlier its bullshit its a natursl advantagr like being a 7ft basket ball player "
Exactly.
Maybe those 7ft basket ball players should have surgery for their height, to “level the playing field”. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"It sounds discriminatory to me - suggesting someone takes drugs to reduce performance is a bit hypocritical at the very least when they are banned from using performance enhancing drugs! & the health implications are pretty unknown.
Absolutely agree. And I would’ve posted similar if you hadn’t! "
So would you be happy for all F track records to be held by females with a Y Chromosome? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"I agree with the decision. As Sharron Davies says, if we are not careful in 10 years time all records in men's sport will be held by men and all records in women's sport will be held by women who carry a Y Chromosome!!!... not much incentive for the massive majority in Women's sport but a great incentive for unscrupulous Governments to get in the record books.."
It certainly starts to erode the early ideas and concepts behind sports/Olympics etc. Many potentially excellent athletes will decide not to pursue it. Competitiveness with be removed and it'll just become cloning athletes.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"As i said earlier its bullshit its a natursl advantagr like being a 7ft basket ball player
Exactly.
Maybe those 7ft basket ball players should have surgery for their height, to “level the playing field”."
u wanna be the ankle lopper |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"It sounds discriminatory to me - suggesting someone takes drugs to reduce performance is a bit hypocritical at the very least when they are banned from using performance enhancing drugs! & the health implications are pretty unknown.
Absolutely agree. And I would’ve posted similar if you hadn’t!
So would you be happy for all F track records to be held by females with a Y Chromosome? "
If they win, they win.
I’d be happy with females with a Y Chromosome not be told to take drugs to lower her levels of testosterone, when using drugs to enhance performance is banned.
It’s a double standard. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"As i said earlier its bullshit its a natursl advantagr like being a 7ft basket ball player
Exactly.
Maybe those 7ft basket ball players should have surgery for their height, to “level the playing field”.u wanna be the ankle lopper "
I’ll step up to the job! |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
I do understand the dilemma but if you had your way, Russian and Chinese race directors would be scouring the country in the hope of funding a Females with a Y chromosome and the remaining 99.999 etc %
of F would say there is no point in training. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
On the face of it it does seem discriminatory, however, from a biological perspective the underlying question is whether she should be considered to be male or female.
A chromosomal abnormality means that she possesses the reproductive organs of a man, not a woman hence the high testosterone levels. Such a mutation gives her the physical attributes of a man and therefore an advantage over other athletes.
The next question is; should we be genetically selecting athletes that should be allowed to compete together? A slippery slope, methinks. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"On the face of it it does seem discriminatory, however, from a biological perspective the underlying question is whether she should be considered to be male or female.
A chromosomal abnormality means that she possesses the reproductive organs of a man, not a woman hence the high testosterone levels. Such a mutation gives her the physical attributes of a man and therefore an advantage over other athletes.
The next question is; should we be genetically selecting athletes that should be allowed to compete together? A slippery slope, methinks."
Agree....If everybody..M F, Trans all chromosal variations but everybody competed on the same track or bike or whatever sport, I don't think the world would be a better place and furthernore it would me a step backwards for F/M/other groups equality.. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"As i said earlier its bullshit its a natursl advantagr like being a 7ft basket ball player
Exactly.
Maybe those 7ft basket ball players should have surgery for their height, to “level the playing field”.u wanna be the ankle lopper
I’ll step up to the job! "
bloody sadist they be like while ya down there love |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
I suppose other sports have different restrictions placed on competitors to level out the playing field so those without the millions can directly compete. F1, MotoGP, Touring Car. Other sports have handicaps placed on competitors. There are many more examples.
Maybe this is something that needs to be considered in athletics. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
Shes a female, end of.
Its discrimination due to her natural advantage that she has taken good use of and is now being punished for her efforts.
It goes against everything in my eyes that says the sports should be contested naturally by the best in the world... Now they say 'well yeah best in the worls aslong as you meet our parameters...' bs  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *UNCHBOXMan
over a year ago
folkestone |
To put the testosterone question into context, the world record holder at 800 meters for women's time would only place her in junior male times for this event. That is how much an advantage a man gets from having testosterone over a woman, and why, as unfortunate as this ruling is for her personally, it is the only fair one for the whole of women's sport. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
She has XY chromosones so genetically has a massive advantage.
I know chromosones don't define gender. You can be male with xx etc.
If she is intersex however then I can see the why the ruling has been made.
She has to lower testosterone below 5 nmol/L that is still 7.5 times the value of the average woman, still a big advantage. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"Caster Semenya has won the 800 metres Olympics 3 times and the 800 metres World Champions 3 times she has passed every test that had been asked of her by the IAAF and the Olympics committee be it steroids use or gender related.I feel that CAS have not treated her fairly and Seb Coe as the head of athletics should be doing more to clean up athletics not taking the easy option by signaling out Caster"
and this is why i feel so sorry for her..... throughout all of this there has been no suggestion that she has cheated or done anything illegal... the iaaf say that, CAS said that in their summary, but people are making her out to be no better than a drugs cheat...
i think she will stop running 800's and 1500's and go up to 5000 and stick it all to them, i hope she does! |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"She has XY chromosones so genetically has a massive advantage.
I know chromosones don't define gender. You can be male with xx etc.
If she is intersex however then I can see the why the ruling has been made.
She has to lower testosterone below 5 nmol/L that is still 7.5 times the value of the average woman, still a big advantage."
the ruling only applies if she wants to race at distances below a mile.....
so thats what she did the 5000 at the south african championships just to make sure that if the ruling went against here she could still run at the world champs later in the season at that event..... |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
Surely, if she is female then the advantage isn't an unfair one... it's a fair advantage.
Calling her natural chemical makeup an unfair advantage would be like saying that someone who's six foot eight tall had an unfair advantage in the high-jump. Do we need to bring in max and min height/limb length/weight/IQ rules to ensure that nobody is naturally more gifted than everyone else?
Cal |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Caster Semenya has won the 800 metres Olympics 3 times and the 800 metres World Champions 3 times she has passed every test that had been asked of her by the IAAF and the Olympics committee be it steroids use or gender related.I feel that CAS have not treated her fairly and Seb Coe as the head of athletics should be doing more to clean up athletics not taking the easy option by signaling out Caster
and this is why i feel so sorry for her..... throughout all of this there has been no suggestion that she has cheated or done anything illegal... the iaaf say that, CAS said that in their summary, but people are making her out to be no better than a drugs cheat...
i think she will stop running 800's and 1500's and go up to 5000 and stick it all to them, i hope she does!"
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *os19Man
over a year ago
Edmonton |
"Caster Semenya has won the 800 metres Olympics 3 times and the 800 metres World Champions 3 times she has passed every test that had been asked of her by the IAAF and the Olympics committee be it steroids use or gender related.I feel that CAS have not treated her fairly and Seb Coe as the head of athletics should be doing more to clean up athletics not taking the easy option by signaling out Caster
and this is why i feel so sorry for her..... throughout all of this there has been no suggestion that she has cheated or done anything illegal... the iaaf say that, CAS said that in their summary, but people are making her out to be no better than a drugs cheat...
i think she will stop running 800's and 1500's and go up to 5000 and stick it all to them, i hope she does!"
. I hope she does stick it up to them by winning at 5000 metres but looking at her body shape I feel she maybe too muscular for long distance running.I believe 800 metres was her best distance I can’t ever remember her winning gold at 1500 metres but the 800 metres -1500 metres double is hard to achieve although Dame Kelly Holmes achieved it. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
» Add a new message to this topic
