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The Universe
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"The same question can be re-worded many ways. That's philosophy for you. "
Philosophy is about the nature of reality. How else can you question our reality? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"If conscious observers were not observing it, would the universe exist?"
I used to enjoy this type of thinking when reading about new theories in subatomic particle research etc, now I believe its been misunderstood i.e schrodinger's cat/tree falling in the woods type of thing.
If a tree falls in the woods, a tree falls in the woods and it will make a sound regardless of an observer.
I'd give an example of a planet,lets say mars, we aren't changing the sun's heat on it just because we observed it.
I also think some think this whole observer thing has been blown out of proportion to now make it as if the conscious observer makes the universe therefore leading to some form of creator when if fact there probably has been other observers around the universe before any life in our solar system anyway.
I really don't think the conscious observer theory(or the anthropic principle as its known), holds up when you consider species like plants/animals that have existed for millions/billions of years before our 'kind'.
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"If conscious observers were not observing it, would the universe exist?
I used to enjoy this type of thinking when reading about new theories in subatomic particle research etc, now I believe its been misunderstood i.e schrodinger's cat/tree falling in the woods type of thing.
If a tree falls in the woods, a tree falls in the woods and it will make a sound regardless of an observer.
I'd give an example of a planet,lets say mars, we aren't changing the sun's heat on it just because we observed it.
I also think some think this whole observer thing has been blown out of proportion to now make it as if the conscious observer makes the universe therefore leading to some form of creator when if fact there probably has been other observers around the universe before any life in our solar system anyway.
I really don't think the conscious observer theory(or the anthropic principle as its known), holds up when you consider species like plants/animals that have existed for millions/billions of years before our 'kind'.
"
But aren't our kind more aware than animals or plants? What plant ever took a carefully constructed photo of a black hole?
Remember, life on other planets hadn't been proven yet |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I meant to add the subatomic world and the macroscopic world behave quite differently in the physical and mathematical properties they have.
The laws of physics is pretty meaningless when describing such things as what's inside the singularity of a black hole or what's outside our universe.
Star-trek and other such programmes that I love are great for fuelling the imagination of thinkers and scientists, but when you consider the basic premise that trying to travel at the speed of light/or faster-would require more energy than is the universe apparently which isn't possible with the known laws of thermodynamics as well as the problems with relativity. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Well it's existed 13 billion years lol so I doubt much will change. "
How long is 13 billion years (sun years) in subatomic terms? A long time, an instant, like a week in Brexit..? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"If conscious observers were not observing it, would the universe exist?
I used to enjoy this type of thinking when reading about new theories in subatomic particle research etc, now I believe its been misunderstood i.e schrodinger's cat/tree falling in the woods type of thing.
If a tree falls in the woods, a tree falls in the woods and it will make a sound regardless of an observer.
I'd give an example of a planet,lets say mars, we aren't changing the sun's heat on it just because we observed it.
I also think some think this whole observer thing has been blown out of proportion to now make it as if the conscious observer makes the universe therefore leading to some form of creator when if fact there probably has been other observers around the universe before any life in our solar system anyway.
I really don't think the conscious observer theory(or the anthropic principle as its known), holds up when you consider species like plants/animals that have existed for millions/billions of years before our 'kind'.
But aren't our kind more aware than animals or plants? What plant ever took a carefully constructed photo of a black hole?
Remember, life on other planets hadn't been proven yet "
If you really think of it, plants may be more advanced than other types of life. They get their energy from stars(photosynthesis), can mimic smells and looks of insects(and they don't even have eyes).
Whereas we devour and destroy lol-compared to the rest of all species..we are a drip in an ocean. It's a mistake to think we are the most advanced, given our relatively short existence.
*Not knocking us doing amazing achievements |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"If conscious observers were not observing it, would the universe exist?
I used to enjoy this type of thinking when reading about new theories in subatomic particle research etc, now I believe its been misunderstood i.e schrodinger's cat/tree falling in the woods type of thing.
If a tree falls in the woods, a tree falls in the woods and it will make a sound regardless of an observer.
I'd give an example of a planet,lets say mars, we aren't changing the sun's heat on it just because we observed it.
I also think some think this whole observer thing has been blown out of proportion to now make it as if the conscious observer makes the universe therefore leading to some form of creator when if fact there probably has been other observers around the universe before any life in our solar system anyway.
I really don't think the conscious observer theory(or the anthropic principle as its known), holds up when you consider species like plants/animals that have existed for millions/billions of years before our 'kind'.
But aren't our kind more aware than animals or plants? What plant ever took a carefully constructed photo of a black hole?
Remember, life on other planets hadn't been proven yet
If you really think of it, plants may be more advanced than other types of life. They get their energy from stars(photosynthesis), can mimic smells and looks of insects(and they don't even have eyes).
Whereas we devour and destroy lol-compared to the rest of all species..we are a drip in an ocean. It's a mistake to think we are the most advanced, given our relatively short existence.
*Not knocking us doing amazing achievements"
Plants don't have universities. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"If conscious observers were not observing it, would the universe exist?
I used to enjoy this type of thinking when reading about new theories in subatomic particle research etc, now I believe its been misunderstood i.e schrodinger's cat/tree falling in the woods type of thing.
If a tree falls in the woods, a tree falls in the woods and it will make a sound regardless of an observer.
I'd give an example of a planet,lets say mars, we aren't changing the sun's heat on it just because we observed it.
I also think some think this whole observer thing has been blown out of proportion to now make it as if the conscious observer makes the universe therefore leading to some form of creator when if fact there probably has been other observers around the universe before any life in our solar system anyway.
I really don't think the conscious observer theory(or the anthropic principle as its known), holds up when you consider species like plants/animals that have existed for millions/billions of years before our 'kind'.
But aren't our kind more aware than animals or plants? What plant ever took a carefully constructed photo of a black hole?
Remember, life on other planets hadn't been proven yet
If you really think of it, plants may be more advanced than other types of life. They get their energy from stars(photosynthesis), can mimic smells and looks of insects(and they don't even have eyes).
Whereas we devour and destroy lol-compared to the rest of all species..we are a drip in an ocean. It's a mistake to think we are the most advanced, given our relatively short existence.
*Not knocking us doing amazing achievements
Plants don't have universities."
btw two of the largest(and i think oldest)lifeforms on this planet are a fungus and and a plant(it's counted as one lifeform regardless looking like a collection)-cant remember its name since I watched it last, but probably pretty easy to find. Pretty successful if uneventful lol |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I think some ppl have been eating fungus  "
in fact, this is probably what 'jesus' did, laced bread or wine with LSD/cannibis, fed it to a few folk then proclaimed he was god.
 |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Of course, the universe is in an entropic state.
Much like any Fab forum discussion.
If I've observed your username correctly though...
Your taste in books is awsome  "
It is. Thanks |
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I'm thinking yes, though not thinking much.
Ref plants - we still have much to learn about them. We don't know all of their hormones, for example. They appear able to communicate with each other and the good news is that they may help us to save other species and ourselves from global warming catastrophe. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Define conscious observer, that may be a step towards your answer  "
I'd say a conscious, and I have to add, intelligent observer, is one who is aware of the environment around them including regions of space, not just a creature that is only aware of it's own immediate surrounds.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Define conscious observer, that may be a step towards your answer
I'd say a conscious, and I have to add, intelligent observer, is one who is aware of the environment around them including regions of space, not just a creature that is only aware of it's own immediate surrounds.
"
Normally an observer would also need to sit outside what is being observed, after all if you can't observe from multiple perspectives you can't really observe at all |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"If conscious observers were not observing it, would the universe exist?
There is no spoon... 
You intend to eat it?"
Well the theory of a donut shaped Universe was put forward by Homer and Stephen Hawking so it’s may be possible to eat it 
LJ |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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There is no way to disprove that I exist within a very elaboate simulation and for all I know, I could be coded and everything around me is to see how AI develops. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"There is no way to disprove that I exist within a very elaboate simulation and for all I know, I could be coded and everything around me is to see how AI develops. "
Had any meets? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"There is no way to disprove that I exist within a very elaboate simulation and for all I know, I could be coded and everything around me is to see how AI develops.
Had any meets?"
Why? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"There is no way to disprove that I exist within a very elaboate simulation and for all I know, I could be coded and everything around me is to see how AI develops. "
We could poke you and see if you grunt |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"There is no way to disprove that I exist within a very elaboate simulation and for all I know, I could be coded and everything around me is to see how AI develops.
Had any meets?
Why?"
Might prove your reality? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"There is no way to disprove that I exist within a very elaboate simulation and for all I know, I could be coded and everything around me is to see how AI develops.
Had any meets?
Why?
Might prove your reality?"
Are you also trying to lead to a 'simulation' theory?
I wonder what people think really regarding such questions, I'll admit a black hole picture recently shown wont change anyones lives really., however many aspects we take for granted were born from CERN (This mad internet thing), tv's, computers etc etc..all born from physicists. physicists predict mathematical equations then test and verify(most people can do the same with the same knowledge), they are not always correct and scientists still admit when they got/get something wrong, quite the opposite for religion though.
Our reality is our reality, it causes me pain and love, I don't need to have a sky wizard or matrix controller to say what's right and whats wrong.
People should just understand our time is fleeting, make the best of now and ensure the future, nothing else actually matters. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Wouldn't it be easier for us if we were just a simple fungus?
Some of us are.
there's no mushroom for sarcasm here thanks.
 "
I even felt the gravitational waves as you laughed xxx |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"There is no way to disprove that I exist within a very elaboate simulation and for all I know, I could be coded and everything around me is to see how AI develops.
Had any meets?
Why?
Might prove your reality?
Are you also trying to lead to a 'simulation' theory?
I wonder what people think really regarding such questions, I'll admit a black hole picture recently shown wont change anyones lives really., however many aspects we take for granted were born from CERN (This mad internet thing), tv's, computers etc etc..all born from physicists. physicists predict mathematical equations then test and verify(most people can do the same with the same knowledge), they are not always correct and scientists still admit when they got/get something wrong, quite the opposite for religion though.
Our reality is our reality, it causes me pain and love, I don't need to have a sky wizard or matrix controller to say what's right and whats wrong.
People should just understand our time is fleeting, make the best of now and ensure the future, nothing else actually matters."
You are quite right.
I opened with the speculation that my reality may be part of a complex simulation because I cannot prove or disprove anything.
"We are all ghosts, piloting meat covered skeletons, made of stardust" is about as abstract a way to describe us. However, my experience in life is basednon whatever is fed to my concious via the five senses.
I don't believe for one second that I'm a disembodied brain, being electronically stimulated to generate a reality which I experience, or that everyone else exists whenever I interact with them. It is just me being abstract. |
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I look at it like this ..
If you stood on Bondi Beach and picked up one grain of sand , that would amount to our own galaxy in the vastness of the universe . Then split that grain of sand into around 100 Bilion pieces and then picked up one of those pieces , that would get you close to the insignificance that is our Planet |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I look at it like this ..
If you stood on Bondi Beach and picked up one grain of sand , that would amount to our own galaxy in the vastness of the universe . Then split that grain of sand into around 100 Bilion pieces and then picked up one of those pieces , that would get you close to the insignificance that is our Planet "
It may be an insignificant little planet but it is big enough for me, imagine you had to commute from that billionth of a grain of sand to Bronty beach each day.
So are we any closer to deciding if there is something observing the universe? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Its great question, however if you believe there is an infinite 'you', then any choice you make,means nothing. Dont get me wrong,I can go on a killing spree right now and it matters nothing to the cosmos, I'd rather understand on my scale that I have a role to play, my future generations will probably agree, however the universe will never really care, it might sound sad, but it is more an issue of humanity than anything astrophysical. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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We appear to be believing everything scientists tell us from an early age...Have we been duped / brainwashed all our lives?
Would they ever admit that they've got it wrong?...Am I alone in thinking that some deep secrets are hidden from us because we're insignificant?
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Maybe. But as a society, we’re also starting to believe the bollocks we spout off, which has no factual basis, but makes a great story of them against us? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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parallel universes could explain ghost sightings.eventually 'our' universe will become nothingness forever.no light /matter /time ..nobody to see it as it doesnt exist so no it wouldnt be there to be seen. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"This makes my head hurt
I was just thinking the same
Shall we have a coffee and look at pretty pictures? 
Now your talking. I can definitely get my head around that "
don't spill your coffee into a black hole |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"If a man walks into a forest where no woman can hear him, is he still wrong?
Only if he emerges without knowing all the lyrics to Gloria Gaynor's Greatest Hits Vols I, II and III "
So it is a yes then, he is still wrong |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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thousands of years in the future the only known non universe thing could be the voyager probes.( the Sun will destroy close satellites) Earth gone. Sun gone.Brexit still debated. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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what existed before the universe before time before energy.. ..a something from absolute nothingness..Brian Cox says in a billion times x 8 years will be the state again ..absolute nothingness forever and ever |
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