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Electric cars
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"Something needs to be ... the black stuff won't last forever"
Personally I think hydrogen fuel cells need more research ... the only bi-product is water ... could help arid countries at the same time |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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They are the future, but right now they're too expensive if you want one which has a decent range on it. The cheaper ones, whilst still decent cars, haven't even got a long enough range to cover my commute to and form work for one day, otherwise I'd have one |
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My only issue with electric cars is people banging on about how environmentally friendly they are without thinking about the impact that lithium mining has ... just to be able to make the batteries |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"They are the future, but right now they're too expensive if you want one which has a decent range on it. The cheaper ones, whilst still decent cars, haven't even got a long enough range to cover my commute to and form work for one day, otherwise I'd have one "
Teslas have a range of 260 miles and can fast charge in 30 minutes but they cost over £70k |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"My only issue with electric cars is people banging on about how environmentally friendly they are without thinking about the impact that lithium mining has ... just to be able to make the batteries"
Yes the lithium mining is really bad. I was shocked when I read about it. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Something needs to be ... the black stuff won't last forever
Personally I think hydrogen fuel cells need more research ... the only bi-product is water ... could help arid countries at the same time"
Good point. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Battery tech needs to improve. Manufacturing batteries is horrific for the environment and they only have a 10 year life cycle on average. Your Tesla or the like will need a new set of cells at huge expense when they give up.
That being said I’m in favour of electric cars despite my petrol headedness. I just wouldn’t buy one with my own money yet. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"What are your views on electric cars ? I went for a ride in a Tesla recently and was impressed. Are they the future?"
Lucky bastard. I'd love to ride in a Tesla they are becoming more and more autonomous. Electric cars are definitely the way to go. Problem is infrastructure and fatcat oil company makeing money hand over fist.
We already have the tech to harvest vast amounts or solar energy from the sun and wireless energy transference. It's just a matter of time now. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Battery tech needs to improve. Manufacturing batteries is horrific for the environment and they only have a 10 year life cycle on average. Your Tesla or the like will need a new set of cells at huge expense when they give up.
That being said I’m in favour of electric cars despite my petrol headedness. I just wouldn’t buy one with my own money yet. "
There's a Netflix documentry about battery's its fascinating but you can find it. This scientist is working on a completely plastic battery. |
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"Yes, and the replacement battery will be very expensive. I think the lady above has a point re hydrogen powered cars. "
I really should sign my posts of with an M 
The lady is a very lovely lady .. but this is the make male monkey |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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No one has considered the existing electricity infrastructure will not cope with all the extra load. Will need loads more power stations to cope. Also who pays for the charging points in every home |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Until electric production is 100% carbon neutral, with Wind/wave or nuclear power station producing all of our energy needs, electric vehicles are a fad.
Just because the car itself doesn't produce anything other than movement and heat as byproducts of discharging the batteries, the carbon produced in the production of electricity occurs elsewhere so the problem of emissions isn't dealt with.
I read an article that suggested that a clean diesel (as in a proper one, not clever electronics to bypass tests) is better that an electric car per km when you take into account non clean electricity generation. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Yes, and the replacement battery will be very expensive. I think the lady above has a point re hydrogen powered cars. "
Hydrogen molecule separation from hard water is already possible via a simple membrane. Aside from Oil companies buying up all the patents and storing sway tech there are too many countries where the main source of revenue is oil. China is still a massive exporter of coal and America loves Oil. |
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"My only issue with electric cars is people banging on about how environmentally friendly they are without thinking about the impact that lithium mining has ... just to be able to make the batteries"
it's not just that. Wait for down the years, with these batteries when they start stockpiling up. Remember only 6 %of the battery is recyclable. Remember the fridge fiasco and the plastic debacle. As usual the thought isall about today, not tomorrow. I'm sure future generations will thank us, not. Well done car manufacturers for putting a lot of thought into this. And who is giving who money to promote and back these ideas. And, when we all have no choice but to drive these things You can bet your life car tax will become road tax once again. There, will be no freebies.. Electric cars are dangerous. You cannot hear them coming. Wait till there are a few deaths with them, then questions, will be asked. For me,there are,a bad idea. I'm sure there is something better out there. We are rushing into this electric fix far too quickly
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"My only issue with electric cars is people banging on about how environmentally friendly they are without thinking about the impact that lithium mining has ... just to be able to make the batteriesit's not just that. Wait for down the years, with these batteries when they start stockpiling up. Remember only 6 %of the battery is recyclable. Remember the fridge fiasco and the plastic debacle. As usual the thought isall about today, not tomorrow. I'm sure future generations will thank us, not. Well done car manufacturers for putting a lot of thought into this. And who is giving who money to promote and back these ideas. And, when we all have no choice but to drive these things You can bet your life car tax will become road tax once again. There, will be no freebies.. Electric cars are dangerous. You cannot hear them coming. Wait till there are a few deaths with them, then questions, will be asked. For me,there are,a bad idea. I'm sure there is something better out there. We are rushing into this electric fix far too quickly "
Not sure I agree about hearing them coming. The majority of sound you hear with a car comes from road noise where the tire and the road meet ... unless you're a young boy racer with a cherry bomb exhaust of course |
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Cost is going to be the big issue. Motoring in the near future will become the preserve of the rich. Cars will have to be maintained by the official dealers only at £200 per hour labour.
We are being priced off the road. |
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Maybe (but personally I doubt it) they are the future but they certainly are not the present.
Firstly, the infrastructure is way behind where it needs to be to convince 20 million plus motorists to change, and no matter how much money is chucked at the problem it will take years to catch up.
Secondly (as said above) the environmental damage caused by Lithium mining and the extra power stations needed to charge 20 odd million cars negates any benefits other than in a few city centres.
Thirdly, who the hell can afford one? It will take years for enough second hand electric cars to filter down before people at the lower end of the car buying spectrum will be able buy one.
Last, but not least, what about people who use their vehicle for work and do more than a couple of hundred miles a day (and there are more of those than you think) How much time will they have to waste charging? Oh! and could someone tell me how the hell people can drive through Europe on holiday? Six or seven hundred miles in a day would be impossible in an electric car or camper (and there are more people who do that than you may think as well)
For me the present is petrol/electric hybrid and the future is Hydrogen cell. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Until electric production is 100% carbon neutral, with Wind/wave or nuclear power station producing all of our energy needs, electric vehicles are a fad.
Just because the car itself doesn't produce anything other than movement and heat as byproducts of discharging the batteries, the carbon produced in the production of electricity occurs elsewhere so the problem of emissions isn't dealt with.
I read an article that suggested that a clean diesel (as in a proper one, not clever electronics to bypass tests) is better that an electric car per km when you take into account non clean electricity generation."
Also, self-charging hybrids are really useful as most car journeys are 5 miles or less, the batteries can power the car for 30 miles, meaning that the diesel engine will only be used on longer journeys. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Cost is going to be the big issue. Motoring in the near future will become the preserve of the rich. Cars will have to be maintained by the official dealers only at £200 per hour labour.
We are being priced off the road."
Once electric cars become a thing it's unlikely anyone will actually own one. With electric autonomous cars you'd just need to pay for a service where they put you up as needed.
If you imagine a whole load if leccyy cars communicating with each other acting like a hive, they would be able plan the optimal routes to avoid traffic jams and the nearest car available would just pick you up. |
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Extracting hydrogen is very expensive, hence why it’s not really an option at the moment..
I don’t see how the national grid would cope with a mass influx of electric vehicles??
If it had to I assume more nuclear plants!
How reassuring |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Extracting hydrogen is very expensive, hence why it’s not really an option at the moment..
I don’t see how the national grid would cope with a mass influx of electric vehicles??
If it had to I assume more nuclear plants!
How reassuring "
I read that if all the cars on the road became electric we’d need something along the lines of 29 more power stations to cope with the extra power draw required to charge them. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"My only issue with electric cars is people banging on about how environmentally friendly they are without thinking about the impact that lithium mining has ... just to be able to make the batteries"
And moving the ore from one continent to another to refine it...then moving it again to place it in batteries....then moving it again to put it in cars. Taking into account the energy into making new cars, they aren’t as environmentally friendly as they appear. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"My only issue with electric cars is people banging on about how environmentally friendly they are without thinking about the impact that lithium mining has ... just to be able to make the batteries
And moving the ore from one continent to another to refine it...then moving it again to place it in batteries....then moving it again to put it in cars. Taking into account the energy into making new cars, they aren’t as environmentally friendly as they appear. "
Yeah it travels by ship from South America to Japan doesn’t it? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"My only issue with electric cars is people banging on about how environmentally friendly they are without thinking about the impact that lithium mining has ... just to be able to make the batteries
And moving the ore from one continent to another to refine it...then moving it again to place it in batteries....then moving it again to put it in cars. Taking into account the energy into making new cars, they aren’t as environmentally friendly as they appear.
Yeah it travels by ship from South America to Japan doesn’t it? "
I’m sure Canada and/or South Africa is in there somewhere for the mining/refining/battery making as well.
I’d rather adopt a dog than go to a breeder and by a new puppy..... |
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
i was on the original telsa model 3 waiting list.... but in the end decided to wait it out a little longer before making the commitment to buy one...
still looking at getting an electric car and there are various "telsa-ish model 3" models coming out in the next year or so so it should be interest
there is one coming from the "posh" end of volvo that i love... so at the moment split between the polestar 2 and the tesla model 3..... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Quite fancy the Tesla roadster.
Wasn't a fan of electric cars until I learned that some have epic acceleration.
Only thing, apart from the price, that puts me off the Tesla is the self-drive system. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Something needs to be ... the black stuff won't last forever
Personally I think hydrogen fuel cells need more research ... the only bi-product is water ... could help arid countries at the same time"
Well no not at all the main byproduct would be at best vast ampunts if CO2 ir radioactive waste.
Youve got to make the hydrogen first which takes more energy than your fuel cell makes
Fuel cells a speciality power source really
Electric cars will win out regardless of power source though as a motor is just better for the application than a combustion engine |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Hydrogen cars are the future...just need the oil companies to release the patents..wonder why they havent already.."
What patents?
Hydrogen is a logistical nightmare
Takes huge amounts of energy to make, is damn near impossible to store, it damages steel and many metals simply by touching them qnd has q very low power density |
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"Extracting hydrogen is very expensive, hence why it’s not really an option at the moment..
I don’t see how the national grid would cope with a mass influx of electric vehicles??
If it had to I assume more nuclear plants!
How reassuring "
Apparently there is already spare capacity of unused renewable energy. So it's been suggested that using the spare to produce hydrogen would be sensible as an energy store for sunless days etc.
They are already investigating the feasibility of more renewable power stations designed to produce hydrogen.
Then it's a matter of including hydrogen at petrol stations, at a stroke clearing the problem of range and availability. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Extracting hydrogen is very expensive, hence why it’s not really an option at the moment..
I don’t see how the national grid would cope with a mass influx of electric vehicles??
If it had to I assume more nuclear plants!
How reassuring
Apparently there is already spare capacity of unused renewable energy. So it's been suggested that using the spare to produce hydrogen would be sensible as an energy store for sunless days etc.
They are already investigating the feasibility of more renewable power stations designed to produce hydrogen.
Then it's a matter of including hydrogen at petrol stations, at a stroke clearing the problem of range and availability."
Hydrogen is very difficult to store and the usual underground bulb in a petrol station is not going to work storing cryogenic hydrogen |
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"Extracting hydrogen is very expensive, hence why it’s not really an option at the moment..
I don’t see how the national grid would cope with a mass influx of electric vehicles??
If it had to I assume more nuclear plants!
How reassuring
Apparently there is already spare capacity of unused renewable energy. So it's been suggested that using the spare to produce hydrogen would be sensible as an energy store for sunless days etc.
They are already investigating the feasibility of more renewable power stations designed to produce hydrogen.
Then it's a matter of including hydrogen at petrol stations, at a stroke clearing the problem of range and availability.
Hydrogen is very difficult to store and the usual underground bulb in a petrol station is not going to work storing cryogenic hydrogen"
Granted, but a better, more environmentally friendly ( hopefully) solution than batteries can be found.
That, or we're all going to have to get used to train travel |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Extracting hydrogen is very expensive, hence why it’s not really an option at the moment..
I don’t see how the national grid would cope with a mass influx of electric vehicles??
If it had to I assume more nuclear plants!
How reassuring
Apparently there is already spare capacity of unused renewable energy. So it's been suggested that using the spare to produce hydrogen would be sensible as an energy store for sunless days etc.
They are already investigating the feasibility of more renewable power stations designed to produce hydrogen.
Then it's a matter of including hydrogen at petrol stations, at a stroke clearing the problem of range and availability.
Hydrogen is very difficult to store and the usual underground bulb in a petrol station is not going to work storing cryogenic hydrogen
Granted, but a better, more environmentally friendly ( hopefully) solution than batteries can be found.
That, or we're all going to have to get used to train travel "
Probbaly not tbh battery tech is comming on leaps and bounds hot swappable battery packs are already in use on military electric and are likley to be the future for road networks |
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By *eeBee67Man
over a year ago
Masked and Distant |
When you can pull up to a recharging station and recharge your batteries as quickly as you can fill up with hydrocarbons the electric car will really take off.
Think Top Gear once did a feature on a hydrogen cell car and the refuelling was almost identical to petrol / diesel.
Why isn't the main focus on hydrogen cells? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"When you can pull up to a recharging station and recharge your batteries as quickly as you can fill up with hydrocarbons the electric car will really take off.
Think Top Gear once did a feature on a hydrogen cell car and the refuelling was almost identical to petrol / diesel.
Why isn't the main focus on hydrogen cells?"
Its horrendously inefficient and difficult.
Its got to be about -250 C and even then it will leak out constantly.
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"the infrastructure for charging needs to be addressed before i look at getting one."
Charging and battery technology will always be the problems for electric cars. The battery's of today are just not up to the job of replacing petrol or diesel.
When manufacturers come up with a battery system where the battery's are changed rather than charged then there could be a leap forward.
A bit like the current system with gas bottles. You own the appliance (in this case the car) but you pay a deposit on the bottle (in this case the battery) then just pay for a refill. Slide one out and slide one in As we are on a swinger site, pun intended  ) But it would need a big leap forward. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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It's a shame we can't come up with a liquid to replace petrol and diesel that's sustainable and cheap - I'll miss the sound of my old Merc when petrol is no longer available. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Electric cars may cause more pollution as there has to be power stations to charge them. If everyone had an electric car our current electric supply couldn’t cope |
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By *pmsldCouple
over a year ago
kettering |
"the infrastructure for charging needs to be addressed before i look at getting one."
Nail on the head in my opinion aswell. Ignoring environmental impacts of petrol v batteries, day to day where are everyone going to charge these things? For example we live in a house that is part of a bigger development that has a private car park so overnight charging is out the window, how many charge points will petrol stations have ? Some of the ones around us can often get queues now when it takes no more than 5 min to fill a tank, what happens when everyone is parking for 30-40 mins at a time? Fast charging, how do the batteries cope being constantly fast charged ? Will the warranties cover this in the future?
Other is cost, currently they are just to expensive for what you get (looks like most car manufacturers will have switched the majority of the range to electric by next year so hopefully qe will start seeing something decent at comparable prices to petrol. Also the cars currently in our price range look quite frankly shit. My car has just hit 3 years old I was going to trade it in but I have decided to wait and see what they do with electric now. MG are releasing a electric ZS SUV later this year which looks nice just need to wait to see the price. Lol |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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They're a good concept and a good prototype for cars of the future but are definately not the future of cars. The EMFs they give off are no joke. Might as well be riding round in a microwave. So bad for you in that sense and long term use of them has not been explored yet in regards to radiation, EMFs and health.. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Hydrogen might be able to solve the weight problem batteries currently struggle to do with good range. Tesla is really the only electric car manufacturer that is worth it, the model 3 will soon be around 30000 euro after incentives but any electric car is better than none for the planet. Also Cobalt in Tesla batteries is considerably lower than other manufacturers with only like 3-4% Cobalt, whereas Volkswagen batteries contain 60% Cobalt. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Maybe (but personally I doubt it) they are the future but they certainly are not the present.
Firstly, the infrastructure is way behind where it needs to be to convince 20 million plus motorists to change, and no matter how much money is chucked at the problem it will take years to catch up.
Secondly (as said above) the environmental damage caused by Lithium mining and the extra power stations needed to charge 20 odd million cars negates any benefits other than in a few city centres.
Thirdly, who the hell can afford one? It will take years for enough second hand electric cars to filter down before people at the lower end of the car buying spectrum will be able buy one.
Last, but not least, what about people who use their vehicle for work and do more than a couple of hundred miles a day (and there are more of those than you think) How much time will they have to waste charging? Oh! and could someone tell me how the hell people can drive through Europe on holiday? Six or seven hundred miles in a day would be impossible in an electric car or camper (and there are more people who do that than you may think as well)
For me the present is petrol/electric hybrid and the future is Hydrogen cell. "
I think this has pretty well summed up my views. Batteries in anything like their current form do not appear to be practical or sustainable so either there'll be an alternative type of battery developed or an alternative power source |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"They're a good concept and a good prototype for cars of the future but are definately not the future of cars. The EMFs they give off are no joke. Might as well be riding round in a microwave. So bad for you in that sense and long term use of them has not been explored yet in regards to radiation, EMFs and health.."
.....just no |
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"Quite fancy the Tesla roadster.
Wasn't a fan of electric cars until I learned that some have epic acceleration.
Only thing, apart from the price, that puts me off the Tesla is the self-drive system. "
a) you don't have to the self drive on a tesla (autodrive is an add on)
b) actually price isn't such an issue... a model 3 tesla will start from roughly 35k..... minus the £4500 EV rebate..... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"They're a good concept and a good prototype for cars of the future but are definately not the future of cars. The EMFs they give off are no joke. Might as well be riding round in a microwave. So bad for you in that sense and long term use of them has not been explored yet in regards to radiation, EMFs and health..
.....just no "
L O L just Google it and you'll see... |
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"They're a good concept and a good prototype for cars of the future but are definately not the future of cars. The EMFs they give off are no joke. Might as well be riding round in a microwave. So bad for you in that sense and long term use of them has not been explored yet in regards to radiation, EMFs and health..
.....just no
L O L just Google it and you'll see... "
Google flat earth and you will get loads of info on that too. Doesn't mean it's right.
The amount of telslas an electric car will produce is tiny you would get massive amounts more from an MRI machine or working on an electric substation, which guys do for whole life times with no issues. Also EMF radiation is not inonising radiation there's no proof this form of radiation harms organic organisms. Finally radiation follows the inverse square law for distance from the source so the amount of EMF you would be subjected to is a very small fraction of what the battery would produce.
O yeah and when you say EMF do you mean electric motive force or electromagnetic field.
If it's the field then generally it's only a changing electric magnetic field that can endure a current in another object so if it's any effect other than the harmless radiation a DC battery won't enduce a magnetic field because it would need to be an AC current.
Working in the electrical transmission industry and with a degree in this field I'd happily sit be exposed to these emfs you speak of. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"They're a good concept and a good prototype for cars of the future but are definately not the future of cars. The EMFs they give off are no joke. Might as well be riding round in a microwave. So bad for you in that sense and long term use of them has not been explored yet in regards to radiation, EMFs and health..
.....just no
L O L just Google it and you'll see...
Google flat earth and you will get loads of info on that too. Doesn't mean it's right.
The amount of telslas an electric car will produce is tiny you would get massive amounts more from an MRI machine or working on an electric substation, which guys do for whole life times with no issues. Also EMF radiation is not inonising radiation there's no proof this form of radiation harms organic organisms. Finally radiation follows the inverse square law for distance from the source so the amount of EMF you would be subjected to is a very small fraction of what the battery would produce.
O yeah and when you say EMF do you mean electric motive force or electromagnetic field.
If it's the field then generally it's only a changing electric magnetic field that can endure a current in another object so if it's any effect other than the harmless radiation a DC battery won't enduce a magnetic field because it would need to be an AC current.
Working in the electrical transmission industry and with a degree in this field I'd happily sit be exposed to these emfs you speak of."
Well I officially got schooled!! Thanks a lot for the info. |
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
i am assuming that of us hippies on the telsa mailing list got the email yesterday they are going to start fulfilling the right hand drive model 3 waiting list as of next week....
so the most basic one is going to start from £33k.... minus the 4.5k EV grant... so 28,500 isn't the most expensive starting price..... |
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